Newbie 1903 | Stuff I Found Online Vii | Over

[0verki11]

hey

[0verki11]

Discussing jumping questions for the board an to provide info for true newbs. All slots kindly answer.

1. What is your experience at Mafia

16 games on 2 sites.

2. How do you play as town

unpredictable and usually active lurking to an extent

3. How do you play as scum

Unpredictable

4. What do you think gives away a player as scum or town?

Tone

[0verki11]

VOTE: Jones because didn't use an emote

But I did

Where did I not?

@teacher, are two votes even concerning at this stage? I agree maybe L-2 or -1 is but why does this look like possible scum weak wagon building to you?

Why are you defending yourself against a RvS vote??

[0verki11]

We need to be a little more active guys. We wont get anywhere otherwise.

[0verki11]

We need to be a little more active guys. We wont get anywhere otherwise.

*36 Hours and no Post*

good tip

Yea sorry, forgot I was in this game for a second,

[0verki11]

Also, I don't know what to think of Roo's comment as that has been pointed out a couple times already.

[0verki11]

after Thespio points out the RCE is buddying Teacher, Teacher doesn't find this troublesome at all

I dont it troubling. If anything, I think the "buddying" and the concern should be coming the other way, at me. RCE has posted the game advancing scum read with a case, and a townread (without one). He has also explained why he thinks Im town, rather than just saying it - and he did so before Jonesy IIRC, so it didnt seem to be whiteknighting. If its buddying. its a bit more detailed/revealing than I expect others would want to be. Im pretty comfortable with how he is playing, and I think others should be too. I on the other hand have not explained any of my reads other than the weak RVS comment, and appear to be just sheeping RCE around.

@0verki11 - forgetfulness happens. But I have a question pending to you. Kindly post a read and reasons.

Give me a few hours until im on my pc.

[0verki11]

Also, I don't know what to think of Roo's comment as that has been pointed out a couple times already.

Care to elaborate at all?

I'm not really sure what to think of any of your posts, as they haven't really contributed anything to the game thus far.

You saw that the post was being talked about and repeated what had already been said to gain towncred.

[0verki11]

We need to be a little more active guys. We wont get anywhere otherwise.

*36 Hours and no Post*

good tip

@Lc this post.

[0verki11]

We need to be a little more active guys. We wont get anywhere otherwise.

*36 Hours and no Post*

good tip

@Lc this post.

Not that it matters in my case on it, there was only a 24 hour gap between posts.

[0verki11]

LCpl: Reasonably townie, mindmeld on their posts, which I usually give a slight townread on.
Teacher: Scummy

@teacher, are two votes even concerning at this stage? I agree maybe L-2 or -1 is but why does this look like possible scum weak wagon building to you?

No. In fact I like RVS wagons, because the pressure can be AI (alignment indicative). I actually think that post was mostly NAI (not ....), and I think the same about most individual posts. I get most of my reads out of a mass of posts, to build a sense of the person making them and their thought process, and then seeing if anything in that ISO (hence the iso link in each post - clicking it will let you see all posts by that one player in the entire thread) sticks out as being inconsistent with the personality and thought process.

That said, I did give it slight slight scum points for being a very early second vote without any reasons OR a joke - one that could be explained easily as RVS but also grabs an earlier/explainable place on a possible wagon.

I’m finding an IC to be a bit of a challenging role, especially in this relatively quiet game. I’m normally a reaction player rather than one fostering discussion, but I feel an obligation to foster here. Hence the comment on something I wouldn’t ordinarily have commented upon. Nothing at all is >rand yet for me (this is a common expression on MS to explain confidence level in reads. Right now, from uniformed town perspective, all slots are 6/8, or 75% likely to be town. If I think someone is more than 25% likely to be scum, say 50%, I’d say rand+25 — a really strong read).

Notice Teachers second statement

VOTE: Snowbeast

The case is actually good too.

You convinced me.
VOTE: snowbeast.
Thanks for replacing and welcome.

This is a second vote.


RCEingma:Nullish

It's not a strong read, a couple slots took it as "he's locktown for me" which might be because of the size of the post or there being content with the read. He's just light town for me because I can see him doing the things he's doing as either alignment but he falls on the downside for generating the content that's come from it. Roo is actually my top town right now.

Explain
This is all I can be bothered doing at the moment when I have time tommorow will do more

[0verki11]

there was only a 24 hour gap between posts

From 29 to 74 is 42. Perhaps this is a typo.

You saw that the post was being talked about and repeated what had already been said to gain towncred.

Hmmmm.

• Jonesy talks about my Snowbeast vote in 44
  
• and in 83
  
• Thespio joins in 89

Only then, in 94, does 0verki11 join in - when it "saw that the post was being talked about and repeated what had already been said."

I found it scummy for different reasons which I stated.

[0verki11]

UNVOTE:

Ooook so, not thrilled about Overkill....may just be inexperience and playstyle. Thespio is in the middle for me but the attempt to split the game into me/teacher vs Thespio/lcpl is scummy.

Just leave me, I dont think ive ever played a town game where D1 I havent been a little lynchbaity, it will improve D2 and onwards.

[0verki11]

intent to vote Teacher

[0verki11]

Skitter, teacher said something about second votes being scummy and then was a second vote on a wagon in his next.
VOTE: Teacher

[0verki11]

I didn't realise the contridiction until later and felt my vote wasnt needed then, and could be used later.

[0verki11]

No disrespect, but which is it? You didn’t realize it? Or didn’t feel like it could be used/was needed? I’m also still waiting for you to explain the difference between your point and Jonesy’s.

*ill be at a comp soon but that one is too ridiculous.

During my iso read on you I noticed it and mentioned it in a post, and didn't think there was a need to post.

[0verki11]

snip

Im going to assume you meant vote, not post - fair enough. But you still havent answered this:

....snip....

You saw that the post was being talked about and repeated what had already been said to gain towncred.

Hmmmm.

• Jonesy talks about my Snowbeast vote in 44
  
• and in 83
  
• Thespio joins in 89

Only then, in 94, does 0verki11 join in - when it "saw that the post was being talked about and repeated what had already been said."

I found it scummy for different reasons which I stated.

Kindly explain how your point in 94 (that 28 contradicts 27) is ANY different from Jonesy's in 44 or 83.

I don't see it? Can you explain it?

[0verki11]

I would prefer not to claim btw.

[0verki11]

I think Teacher and Roo are most likely scum.

[0verki11]

Tell me before you hammer because I assume your not going go leave me unclaimed.

[0verki11]

I think Teacher and Roo are most likely scum.

why?

Roo jumped onto my wagon by repeating stuff that had been said multiple times.
Teacher I explained earlier.

[0verki11]

I did post intent, if your claiming a Pr since it’s d1 I would be in favor of lynching someone else.

You really sure you want me to claim?
Also we have 3 days left so we shouldnt be in an hurry.

[0verki11]

Claim. Intent has been posted. You’ve softed enough anyways that “scum” already knows

Ehh, was worth a try, im VT lmao.

[0verki11]

Claim. Intent has been posted. You’ve softed enough anyways that “scum” already knows

Ehh, was worth a try, im VT lmao.

Was trying to bait a nightkill onto me, if that wasnt obvious, and im leaving the motive of it at that.

[0verki11]

I dont have any particular objections to a hammer

Remember Roo and Teacher are my scumreads.
And as I said wasting 3 days is dumb.

[0verki11]

I could probably see Breadcrumbs flip scum as well, they would be my third guess.

[0verki11]

I did post intent, if your claiming a Pr since it’s d1 I would be in favor of lynching someone else.

You really sure you want me to claim?
Also we have 3 days left so we shouldnt be in an hurry.

No, I’m telling you if you don’t want to I’m fine waiting until D2 for a claim.

Yea, I didn't want to push a PR claim further than the softs so im just going to stop now.

[0verki11]

UNVOTE: actually, im having second thoughts

thanks for taking me of L1,
what would be the lynch instead of me?

[0verki11]

shit unexpeted stuff happened.

V/LA for 48 hours

[0verki11]

I may not make it here again before EoD.

[0verki11]

Here now sorry about inactivity.

[0verki11]

re-reading the entire thread and doing a analysis on all of it now, expect it in a hour or so

[0verki11]

VOTE: Snowbeast
The case is actually good too.

You convinced me.
VOTE: snowbeast.
Thanks for replacing and welcome.

Already stated my thoughts on this vote, didnt like it.

I was going to wait until everyone checked in to really start playing but it's not often you get solid page 1 reads and I've found scum
VOTE: Snowbeast
The case is actually good too.

I get subbed in. Post 4 brief lines relating to my previous (in)experience and you get a strong read.
You are either trying to get a reaction out of me for fun or are mafia taking advantage of the fact I've only played one day of mafia.
I'd love to see your case

I don’t really like this reaction.

HAHA, fair enough, it is partially who I am and it was between 9 and 10pm in South Africa when I got the e-mail to say I was in.
I had literally just shut the xbox down and was making the kids bottles when I got the e-mail.
I must say I am also looking forward to this concrete evidence from after just 4 lines.

Something irrks me about this post but I cant tell what.

So a few things of note so far:
Teacher and I are on the same wavelength at the moment. I don't see him pocketing an SE over a newbie but I'm not convinced in that. I will keep an eye on it.Breadcrumb trying to pile on while pointing out he doesn't want L-1 yet pings me, it's fencesitting. I haven't even given my read yet.
Roo is a townread at this point, I'll lean Teacher town for what he did page 1 which I'll explain in my case.

Orginal case on snowbeast from RCEnigma

Spoiler:

Discussing jumping questions for the board an to provide info for true newbs. All slots kindly answer.
1. What is your experience at Mafia
2. How do you play as town
3. How do you play as scum
4. What do you think gives away a player as scum or town

1. 1 game - lynched day 1 as doc
2. To win
3. To win
4. Not keeping a straight story

Ok so your experience does come into play but not because you would be an easy push, I have no problem pushing on the IC as either alignment. If you would like to look over newbie games where I've done so I don't mind linking them.
Now initially I didn't like the particular questions Teacher posed.
A.) It could easily be a gauge of what players are looking for in particular when scumhunting in order to avoid certain tells.
B.) Scum don't have to put any effort into answering any of these because each question is objective. All in all nothing alignment indicative.
It's also busy work but that's either alignment as well. However it does generate content so, fine. I wasn't going to answer them initially but I figured I could work with it, I have a feeling Teacher was looking for something in particular with his choice of questions.
Snowbeast stuck out for his answers not being short but being awkward. I purposefully put forth jokish answers to the middle questions and light effort in the last. At the very least to convey what my mindset will and should be.
Roo followed up in much of the same way but it felt genuine, his last answer showed he was putting thoughts into his answers despite the jokes.
Snowbeast comes in with a very awkward repeat of Roo's post and a lackluster response to the last question which didn't give the town impression I was looking for when compared to the rest of the slots answers.
In short it comes off as scum just trying to fit in at a time when it should be the easiest. I would especially expect a brand new player to try and stay within certain parameters and take hints from the players around them so the lack of effort seems more like mafia that doesn't have a feel for how they want to be viewed and read rather than a newbie putting off a town vibe.
The fact that you were mislynches as pr in your first game is also interesting. I would expect more of an effort to convey town in order to avoid being misread and mislynched again.
With the way slots have acted around my case claim I could easily see breadcrumb attempting to distance here.
Snow you are rather calm and sure you haven't leaked any information. I will absolutely attempt to bury any slot I feel is scum.

So teacher joins a wagon without reasoning and you give him a townread, seems legit.
Ok, I actually kind of like this post im even more confident that this isnt SvS due to it being a early hard push that wouldnt of been needed on your partner

VOTE: Jones because didn't use an emote

But I did
Where did I not?
@teacher, are two votes even concerning at this stage? I agree maybe L-2 or -1 is but why does this look like possible scum weak wagon building to you?

Why are you defending yourself against a RvS vote??

Why should I not?

Because its not a serious wagon and there is no reason to defend yourself against it.

And Jonesy wins the town prize. I disappeared rather than answer 36 because I didn’t want to say I made up a post doing exactly what I described to see if anyone caught the inconsistency.
@RCE, I like your style and thoughts. Such was indeed the purpose of having the questions, and the mix of them. It also has an alternate purpose to provide newbs the benefit of some thoughts on how to hunt - I often find the response or lack of response to 4 the most telling. I used it to bag a scum page one the last time they were used too. That said, I wish you had held off on the case for a bit until all slots had answered so that the incomings won’t see behind the screen as it were.
@snowbeast: I’m among the wordiest players in the games I play. I feel like RCE might be up there too, but haven’t played with him (sorry btw) before. Shorter posts tend to be more common than not, and that’s certainly true outside the newb queue even more.

Still doesnt really answer the question.

@snow - I don't know if I really buy the "we had to copy them" thing. Nobody else copied other people's responses.
@Enig - when you say you and teacher are on the same wavelength (which you gave plausible reasons for believing), how much of a townread is that for you right now? I don't think it would be that hard for scum to make the same connections.
@teach - when you read scum on Sunlit at the time due to their dodging of question 4 (which, as you pointed out, was the correct read), was that a strong scumread for you? Do you think question 4 has the power to out someone like that?
I think it's a little strange that Roo and 0verk1ll have dropped off the radar a bit. Neither of them have posted in 24 hours. The posts we can see don't contain much - 0verk1ll asks Jones why he's defending an RvS vote, prods us to be more active, and then nothing. Roo answers the four questions, votes 0verk1ll in response to his prod for us to be more active, and then nothing.It could be that they've both had long days, forgot to post, or maybe they're flaking out on the game for whatever reason. But I think it's still worth mentioning.
First mentioning of my inactivity (Its NAI but important in my Roo case)

Spoiler:

Roo is actually my top town right now.

Out of curiousity, what is your profession? I am a recovering lawyer, and we seem to read everything the same way. Its actually kinda freakin me out.

We need to be a little more active guys. We wont get anywhere otherwise.

LAMIST (look at me Im so town).
started this before my kids woke up, but getting it out now...

I feel like we should wait for snowbeast to react to the votes before we do something else, like putting more pressure on him/her to get another reaction or pressuring someone else. I know what I just said amounts to "wait and see", but it's very possible that the person just doesn't come on to mafiascum all that often, and maybe didn't expect games to be so active so early (personally, I thought two pages for day 1 was pretty active, I didn't think it would be considered quiet). It's probably more useful for him/her to come back with two votes on his/her back instead of being immediately at L-2 or even L-1 (probably not gonna happen unless we're really impatient to get day 1 over with); we can always pressure him/her more later - this way we have more options to provoke more reactions over time.

I appreciate your pushback and it feels consistent with the personality Ive seen in your other oposts. Although as Jonesy said in an early post, two votes really isnt much pressure.
On your general note, real life day 1 during Day one tends to get a spate of activity, with a lot of joke/fluff posting. Day 1 then has a couple peaks and valleys of activities. Day 2 tends to be shorter, with a consensus. But these are typical patterns I have noticed, not necessarily rules.

Second mentioning of my post, (in a different way but still worth mentioning imo)

We need to be a little more active guys. We wont get anywhere otherwise.

*36 Hours and no Post*
good tip

This had already been pointed out multiple times and there was no reason for this, I don’t really like it. (Re-reading the thread I think other people are a little more scummy however)
Page 3 SR’s
Snowbeast
Teacher
Roo (To an extent)

[0verki11]

Just doing it a few pages at a time more coming

[0verki11]

after Thespio points out the RCE is buddying Teacher, Teacher doesn't find this troublesome at all

I dont it troubling. If anything, I think the "buddying" and the concern should be coming the other way, at me. RCE has posted the game advancing scum read with a case, and a townread (without one). He has also explained why he thinks Im town, rather than just saying it - and he did so before Jonesy IIRC, so it didnt seem to be whiteknighting. If its buddying. its a bit more detailed/revealing than I expect others would want to be. Im pretty comfortable with how he is playing, and I think others should be too. I on the other hand have not explained any of my reads other than the weak RVS comment, and appear to be just sheeping RCE around.
@0verki11 - forgetfulness happens. But I have a question pending to you. Kindly post a read and reasons.

This could be slightly LAMIST or towny and I am having trouble working out what one

@Roo - about your post talking about how teacher didn't think that Thespio's claim that RCE is buddying teacher is troublesome.
I think it does look a little weird. RCE also pulled back on his comment after I asked him, saying that teacher's only a slight townread for him, which

could

be him trying to backtrack on buddying since other people are pointing it out. However, I don't think that's a real point of contention, since RCE's original comment only said "for now, teacher and I are on the same wavelength". If RCE is trying to buddy right there, I think it's subtle enough that we can't really tell it apart from him just genuinely noting that he and teacher are thinking on the same track.
I'm not sure what it means for teacher to not be concerned, though. How would that point in the direction of him being scum (assuming that's what you're thinking, since you said you may be suspicious of teacher on these grounds)?

@teacher - I might be misinterpreting your post, but I feel like we shouldn't really ever be comfortable with people's playstyles, just in principle because of the nature of Mafia. Especially on day 1, since it's easier for scum to play in a way that looks town for a short time rather than over multiple days.

As for your rebuttal to RCE buddying you - sure, RCE is scumhunting and giving some information behind his thoughts, perhaps more than scum would usually do, but considering it more in depth - he makes a case on an awkward post by snow (which is a decent case), says he and you are on the same wavelength after you vote in line with him, and (referring to post #54) the other two points with which he is agreeing with you on, he only said he was "considering pinging", meaning he didn't address them before you did.

None of this is scummy in nature, but I think his explanation of why he thinks you're town and his scumhunting aren't that hard for someone that is scum to write. All scum would have to do is make one decent case, use the opportunity of you voting in line with them (afforded to scum
because they made a decent case, so probably at least one person would agree with them) to say you two are on the same wavelength, and claim that he's had the opinions you've had after you posted your opinions.
In this way, I think RCE's posting style can't be used to quash the possibility that he's scum trying to buddy you. I don't think it can be used to support that possibility either (since town-RCE could easily do the same things). However, I do think you should be more concerned (or at least cognizant of the possibility) about him buddying you than you are right now.
Also, in line with what Jones is talking about, why would you post a post that specifically does something that you said was slightly scummy in order to see if anyone caught on to the inconsistency? How does that help us?

Doesn't really take much of a stance here, im scum reading them for this

So hear me out here, just want all your opinions on this, I’m currently scum leaning on RCE but assuming he is just saying I think we’re simmiliar then the most beneficial thing for teacher if he was scum would be for them to lean into this idea that they are similar, this would let him pick up a townie and he could attempt to shift suspicion off of their pocketed townie to gain their trust. At the time there wasn’t really any pressure on teacher so they didn’t have to worry about us flipping on them. But now teacher is trying to justify their interactions and even more he strait up says he thinks it’s weird how similar they are. Meanwhile I think the rest of us are like ‘wtf are they talking about?’
Currently feel this makes teacher scum and a hard lean with RCL
VOTE: Teacher

I doubt they would buddy this hard D1 particularly due to experience

having a look at this game I guess one needs to remove the emotion of being voted for and rather look at how they can rather benefit the town in play.

Two ways to look at it in my opinion.

Those who are very vocal about their reads of who is who are either concerned townies or mafia wanting to get some heat off their backs.
For now I am reading them as concerned townies.

My main concern are the people who are not very active. It's almost as if they are hiding from sight so they don't peak on anybodies radar.
I guess this thinking is the same thinking that got me voted for.
Fair play.
I don't have much to offer at night, but I would certainly like to assist more during the day.

As it is now Monday I will start watching who does not post much during the next couple of days and build a case off that.

I must say this is kind of LAMIST [1] though.
[1]Look at me: I'm so town!

I see this too.

if snowbeast is scum thespio is a decent partner
==

None of my case was predicated on snow lurking. YOUR suspicions hinge on scum lurking. I don't think Snowbeast is masterminding anything, that was a throwaway line to lead into YOUR read on Teacher.
If you put those two snippets back into their context it explains: Motivations, agendas compared against each other, Thought processes etc. Think of the beginning of my post in 40 as a syllabus and use it to determine what I got out of the posts leading up to 40 and what I was looking for within the criteria I laid out.

riiiight, so my case against teacher, and my read on you dont predicate on scumlurking, youre suspicions, in context, make no sense beyond 'I didnt like his history post' and 'he had awkward posts' both of which can be explained with lack of experience and a lack of commitment to the game. so my concern is that you are pretending you have this case when you are really just pushing a policy lynch.

Agree that if Snowbeast flips scum Thespio may flip scum as well.


Scumreads: Page 6
Snowbeast
ast
Breadcrumbs
Thespio (Only if Snowbeast flips scum)
Teacher
Roo
Thespio (Only if Snowbeast flips scum)
Top to bottom is Scummist to least scummy
I didn’t post anything one the RCE/Thespio mini thunderdome because I need snowbeast to flip to have any confirmed thoughts on it. (Also im trying to get the entire thread done)

[0verki11]

Going to do the rest after tea so I can play destiny with friends, will be done within 4 hours