Newbie 1909 | Scheme | Over

[Loopdan]

VOTE: Clem

For not voting in his first post.

[Loopdan]

1. A couple years ago I played frequently. I took a hiatus and just came back.
2. As town I like to post often and seriously. I ask questions and pressure players who are inactive or anti-town. I'm not afraid to take a stand if I disagree with the way others are reading the game. Activity lessens if my RL is busy.
3. As scum I try to play my town-game.
4. This depends on the player, and I'd rather not give specific answers to this and help out scum who may be in their first game.

[Loopdan]

I don’t know what happened back in your day, but according to Highlander there can be only one elephant avi, a

Meh... I had it first.

[Loopdan]

1. I'm new
2.I guess I'd listen to everyone else and make no accusations.
3. I guess I'd stay quiet
4. I think scum usually puts a lot of accusations, whereas most town will be quiet

Wow talk about scum claiming in your first post! Get 'em boys.

VOTE: dicideaq

[Loopdan]

Amzela, why aren't you voting for obvscum dici?

[Loopdan]

@EGL, I'll explain later.

[Loopdan]

Amzela, why aren't you voting for obvscum dici?

Because as a newbie, picking on the newbies is mean and even though we're in RVSing no need to scare people away.
On that note.
VOTE: Loopdan

So do you think me asking you to vote dici for scum-slipping in his first post is more likely to come from a scum mindset?

[Loopdan]

I'll sheep Clem. That vote is towney.

VOTE: Loopdan

That's L-1

[Loopdan]

Clem, why are you asking me to unvote when you have that power within yourself?

[Loopdan]

Can I get an explanation first about dicide's alleged scumslip?

I promise I'll explain but I want everyone to check in first.

[Loopdan]

I wouldn't be doing it otherwise.

[Loopdan]

It got us talking about more than who has played with who and other uuseless RVS interactions. And not this game.

[Loopdan]

Clem, why are you asking me to unvote when you have that power within yourself?

because i asked you

Question: "Why did you ask me?"
Answer: "Because I asked you."

C'mon you can do better.

[Loopdan]

I'm still here. Feel free to name drop while we wait and see what everyone else is going to do.

[Loopdan]

unvote yourself now please and thank you

I will once everyone checks in. Right now I like it as it is.

[Loopdan]

Don't you think it would have been better to talk about what you perceived as a dicideaq scumslip rather than your self-voting?

Not really. There was no scumslip. I was just hoping to give an excuse for the other experienced players to pile on a newbie player for some pressure. Pretty sure they could tell that wasn't a serious vote. But newer players see me say I saw a scumclaim and want answers (like you did) or sometimes use it as an excuse to jump on a wagon. These are all helpful.

RVS is not very helpful (although I actually kinda like Teacher's questions). I like to take the game to unusual places to see how players respond. And here we are.

[Loopdan]

UNVOTE: please


I mean I like to live dangerously and all but I feel that was too much and proving a point???? I’m past useful today but we should make sure there is a tomorrow et al.

Does that count as an actual unvote?

[Loopdan]

^@Plot

[Loopdan]

I kinda wanted you to leave it on until the others check-in, but I suppose it's also a sigh of relief.

UNVOTE:

[Loopdan]

@teacher that shouldn't have been hammer because amzela unvoted

Yeah, don't worry about him. He's drunk.

[Loopdan]

@Clemency, why didn't you remove your vote and we still have players who haven't posted?

[Loopdan]

Thoughts on reactions to your play, loopdan?

Not sure yet. I'm surprised Clem didn't unvote. Your vote and unvote were better than Amzela's, but I think I can see her thinking in 53.

[Loopdan]

Complaining is your word. I said surprised. I don't get why you'd ask me to unvote myself when you had your vote on me. Please explain that.

[Loopdan]

also i'm not unvoting because you're being horribly defensive about it

I'm not sure I understand. Horribly defensive about what? Being voted?

[Loopdan]

You take a self vote to put myself at L-1 in RVS as a soft scum-claim? Are you even listening to yourself?

[Loopdan]

That makes no sense.

And it also makes no sense that you'd insist I unvote myself but refuse to unvote me.

[Loopdan]

If you didn't want me at L-1 because you feared a mislynch, why not unvote? If you wanted me lynched because you think I'm scum, why demand I unvote to get me off L-1?

It kinda looks like you wanted it both ways.

[Loopdan]

That makes no sense.

And it also makes no sense that you'd insist I unvote myself but refuse to unvote me.

because there's so much sense in self-voting to l-1, right?
you're saying words but all i hear is "scum wouldnt do that, there for i'm town, right, guys? guys??"

I've never said or implied that scum wouldn't do this. In fact I'll make it clear: I've seen scum self-vote more often than town. But you are trying to change the subject instead of just explaining your thinking.

[Loopdan]

i want you playing to your win-con

You are experienced enough to know I wasn't trying to get myself lynched.

[Loopdan]

Yeah none of that clears it up. So you have no explanation for demanding I unvote myself yet leaving your vote on me.

Got it.

[Loopdan]

You're joking, right?

[Loopdan]

Where exactly did I get "incredibly defensive"? All I've wanted for the last two pages is for you to explain but you are all over the place.

[Loopdan]

good lord i forgot how infuriating actually trying is

As much as I don't get you right now, I much prefer this version of Clem to that memey lazy version.

[Loopdan]

Go to sleep Clem.

[Loopdan]

I do scumread Dicideaq's answers to the question ,and I thought Dan did too

Yeah I did find dicideaq's answers (10) the worst of anybody's, but I obviously oversold it as a scumslip. Why was it bad? It looks like he is pre-emptively making excuses for not scum-hunting and saying that's what he thinks town would do.

And this naked vote isn't great, given there is much to talk about between dici's two posts.

[Loopdan]

EGL is now my hardest town for the consistent desire for information and using the vote to pressure well.

Agreed.

[Loopdan]

@Teacher, is it kosher to vote yourself in RVS for shits and giggles or is that still really scummy?

I won't make you wait for Teacher to reply to get your answer. The answer is no, you shouldn't self-vote for shits and giggles. It's almost always anti-town.

Obviously I thought it would help me sort players, and it was still an RVS wagon, so I didn't think it would be harmful. I gave it some thought. For example, I wouldn't have put myself at L-1 if Teacher wasn't already on the wagon, because he had already said he was drinking heavily, and if he was scum he might have been able to get away with a "drunk-hammer." Yes, I've seen that happen.

One last note then I'm moving on from this... I would not have done it if I was the IC, because it really isn't something we should be encouraging newer players to emulate. Clem and I were once in a game where Hark (who was a newer player and was town) scum-claimed in his first post and it destroyed any hope of town finding each other day1.

[Loopdan]

Amzela's 124 is not what I expected. I mean that in a good way.

[Loopdan]

Amzela - Should I vote Clem or dici?

[Loopdan]

EmpFlip - As you catch up, don't forget to check your scumchat PT.

[Loopdan]

I was in your last game (TTTT is a Loopdan Alt), so I'm just messing with you about the mafia PT thing because of this.

How do you intend on playing this game differently from that one?

[Loopdan]

OK.

VOTE: dicideaq

[Loopdan]

So what are your thoughts on this game right now, EmpNipz?

[Loopdan]

VOTE: Child

167 and 168 don't make sense.

[Loopdan]

Child knew TTTT was my alt at least four hours before he posted 168, which means he had read post 137. But when he was typing 168 he somehow hadn't read 129 on the same page as 137.

Yet 168 looks like he is developing reads as he is going through the game post by post.

I think it's more likely he is manufacturing his reads in 168 than he legitimately only read post 137 on page 6.

[Loopdan]

Clem, sheep me and prove you aren't his partner.

[Loopdan]

@Teacher - I don't think I've read any of your games. Are you a better town or scum player?

[Loopdan]

@loop How exactly does that prove Clemency isn't his partner again? Scummates will often try to distance themselves from one another in case one of them gets caught, won't they? And since you asked him to do it for that very reason... Are you thinking scum clem would follow along with your request in an attempt at passing as town?

I want some more votes on Child and Clem is the kind of player who isn't afraid to sheep (some people think this makes them look weak, but Clem is a memey player so I don't think he minds). The only insight it really provides is that it looks like his read changed on me, since I was his prior vote.

[Loopdan]

Hey, I'm looking forward to playing with everyone. yadda yadda, I'm on the last day of my vacation and doing an 18 hour drive tomorrow so I'm going to semi active and then I'm going to be not at all active and then I'm going to be active.

Jumping right in, can you give me the full walk through here because I'm trying to see what you're talking about and I'm not.

Child knew TTTT was my alt at least four hours before he posted 168, which means he had read post 137. But when he was typing 168 he somehow hadn't read 129 on the same page as 137.

I'll try explaining it the other way around.

Child came into the game and immediately said hi TTTT (one of my alts). Teacher is like how'd you know that so quick have you been following the game? Child is like yeah bro I skimmed it. Then 4 hours later Child posts a play-by-play of the game which shows him developing his reads, and replying to other's posts, and not realizing what I was doing with the L-1 self-vote... until he gets to a post on page 6 where I explained it, and he's like damn bro you got me! But I had mentioned I was TTTT a couple posts above that post on page 6, so if he's already read that page why is he acting like he is developing these reads in his play-by-play.

In other words it looks fake.

[Loopdan]

Although I do like his most recent reply (186).

[Loopdan]

VOTE: dicideaq

This is L-1.

Do not vote dici without first stating your intent to hammer and allowing everyone (including dici) a chance to respond.

[Loopdan]

would people be mad if i hammered this

Yes. State your intent Clem. It's the Newbie Q.

[Loopdan]

Teacher, why are you IC-posting instead of commenting on the dici's L-1?

[Loopdan]

I don't know your personality, loopdan, but that early self-vote like its cousin the scum-claim has to come more often from scum than town, right?

I don't know if self-voting is more likely to come from scum or not when it's early like that. Scum does self-vote more than town but it's usually the hammer. To be fair, if a new player came in and did what I did, I would probably be all over them until/unless they explained a motive that was consistent with their actions and were playing in a way that made me believe they would do something like that.

either way, this wagon is pretty dope.

if dici is scum, i think this wagon is 100% town
if dici is town, i think there is at most 1 scum on this wagon rn and that maybe-scum is loop

Agree on this being a good wagon. That's one reason I voted.

[Loopdan]

Amzela's 124 is not what I expected. I mean that in a good way.

I'm still trying to figure out what this means. What?

It looked like a towney post.

-- Loop as... scum lean?
>> really, really didn't like that self-vote, no matter how you slice n' dice it. 87 feels like a weird defense against Clem. 129 is an agreement, but I still don't get the whole thing about Teacher drunk hammering and how that would help town.

I was just saying that if Teacher wasn't on my wagon already I wouldn't have put myself at L-1. I said that because I wanted people to realize I wasn't being careless, as I tried to think through the possible outcomes.

The aggression towards Child seems unwarranted, explaining below.

So do you think unwarranted aggression is more likely to be scum than town?

On top of that the 210 push on Teacher to comment on Dici's L-1 instead of IC-posting feels weird. I get that may be an "is Teacher actually town or no?" line of questioning.

You are going to have to get used to people asking questions that aren't nice and/or polite. It's how alignments are sorted. If you are town here, I'm kinda worried that all scum will have to do is befriend you and you'll be in their pocket.

[Loopdan]

Mama-Amz would be angry because I have a feeling Dici's scared/on holiday. On the other hand, I also reeeeeeeally wanna hammer this too because I'm bad at reading people as well.

This and the rest of your commentary on dici reads really scummy to me.

If dici flips red, this looks like the partner

Amzela in this post: I really scum read him, too, but he's probably just newb!town but I really want to hammer him because I'm bad at reading people.

I'm buying what you are selling.

[Loopdan]

If Clemency is around can I get another vote on amzela?

I love this post.

[Loopdan]

@Teach, just to be clear I'm not saying you should have made an IC post about protocol for L-1s. I was just surprised to see you post after the L-1 vote without saying anything about the possible lynch of dici. You were the first vote on him after all, so I'm curious how that wagon forming up on an absent player works for you.

[Loopdan]

For whatever it's worth I'm not a big fan of "one on, one off." Yes, it's probably true the majority of the time on day1 in Newbie Q games, but there are exceptions and I'd advise not gambling a lynch on it being true, especially with lurkers who aren't voting.

[Loopdan]

Bottom line, take wagon position into account, but only as one piece of data to be weighed like the rest of it

Yeah, I can't disagree with that.

I'm also down with your 252 and URAP2's take on it. Time to townbloc this day1.

[Loopdan]

Realizing 234 this makes me look even more scummy.

Goddammit.

I'm not sure I follow. Why do you think 234 made you look even more scummy?

[Loopdan]

what does your town block look like?

URAP2
Teacher
EGL

[Loopdan]

I'm going out of town for three days starting tomorrow morning (12 hours or do from this post). I'll be reading when I can.

Empflipz, you haven't voted or even said you are scum-reading anybody yet this game. Or even expressed suspicions. If you had to pick your two most likely candidates for scum right now who would it be and why?

[Loopdan]

@Clem, What do you think of Teacher's reads?

[Loopdan]

, I think we are both at a similar place with the other: Town for now, but definitely willing to revisit as needed.

Exactly. You appear to be town but I'm assuming it's within your abilities to do this as scum. Experienced players who are widely TR'd in newbie games tend to just get NK'd. If they survive to lylo it's time to question everything.

[Loopdan]

I have no problem with dici being lynched before replacement.

It seems a good chance to be a scumflip for day1 and I'll take those odds.

[Loopdan]

I don't like the alternative if he's town though.

Fair. But if he's scum, I'd like to avoid a good scum player replacing-in and casting doubt on this lynch and then the townbloc crumbles as we push other wagons and we end up scrambling for a lynch at EOD after forcing townies to claim and scum NKs a claimed PR.

Because that's how day1 usually goes.

I think it's waaaay more likely he's newbscum scared of the game, than that he's a newb town PR who is legit laying low.

[Loopdan]

Also, most people on MS call me Loop if they are doing it shortened. For those who've been calling me Dan, it's no problem at all, but thought I'd mention it. I've also been called LD or Elephant but the most common is Loop. Also scumfuck gets thrown around occasionally but I don't care for that name.

[Loopdan]

Dicideaq¹ has been prodded. They have (expired on 2019-01-01 07:55:00) to post before I start looking for a replacement. This prod is about 4 hours late because I am just waking up. teacher has the algorithm right but I think he was counting in UTC instead of UTC+1. When we were on 48 hours prods I was able to do the weekends halftime math in my head but I just couldn't get used to the 36 hours shedule so I wrote a script for it.

Yep, he has logged in since the prod.

I say give him until the prod timer hits zero then hammer, but it's your call.

[Loopdan]

It'd be great if Empflipz showed up though...

Empflipz, you haven't voted or even said you are scum-reading anybody yet this game. Or even expressed suspicions. If you had to pick your two most likely candidates for scum right now who would it be and why?

[Loopdan]

There's nothing better than when town finds each other and you still have like that slight paranoia that you are being pocketed but you really really hope that you aren't because everything is running smooth and the game just has that vibe that scum are running scared.

Yeah that's what this game felt like. I look forward to playing with any and all of you in the future.

Thank you Plot

for another perfectly modded game!

[Loopdan]

Teacher, I think I speak for everyone when I say you kicked ass both as an IC and as a town-player. Do you effort that much as scum? That would be exhausting.

[Loopdan]

Amzela, I wouldn't worry about trying to seem less scummy. The way you play, you look more town the more you talk. There were a couple times I thought you were scummy but later your towny thoughts clicked the more you talked. Your one-on-one real-time chat would have been very impressive to pull-off as scum for a newer player.

[Loopdan]

@Plot - Please release the scum chat. Thanks!