Newbie 1917 - Game Over

[Thespio]

VOTE: Guilty Lion for teasing a newbie :p hello guys

[Thespio]

no worries, there's not really a "standard" and people will have different opinions on how to interpret things. if you're town don't sweat it, I'll likely come around on you if you stay engaged. early game you kinda just have to start with small things and see where it leads, to me voting you for a non-random reason is

incrementally better than voting a slot randomly

You're right. May change vote to Muh due to "voting for salt" (better than voting a random slot)

XD boy you are fresh meat, right now we are in RVS whichis when we don’t know anything people here are teasing and the game really hasn’t begun. Slow down a little tiger, good to see you are an eager prayer though.

[Thespio]

VOTE: Thespio for having a Sabertooth mage as his avatar.

Kidding, Sabertooth's fine. UNVOTE: .
Also, you guys seem to be taking RVS unexpectedly seriously.

I know, because the game took a while to conf I expect most newbies to throw their hands up and immediately start hunting, funny that two experienced players are freaking out about RVS

[Thespio]

VOTE: Guilty Lion for teasing a newbie :p hello guys

I'm gonna ask you more about this vote later
plz remind me

I can answer all your questions... Its an RVS vote, why are you so eager to set up lynches?

[Thespio]

Dude the games 30 seconds in and you are claiming to have figured it all out, tbh this looks like an early lynch gambit, with no IC trying to get newbies to collapse on one person for an early kill. Im 99.999999999% sure the things pinging your scumdar are newbies trying to learn to play.

[Thespio]

bc it's the only way to kill scum

Its also a good way to kill town.

[Thespio]

@TTTT but you caught obvscum right?

[Thespio]

(even though Thespio seems to want to sell that narrative)
b

Im not trying to sell anything, you are saying he is newb scum, im teasing you because it seems silly to jump on a newbie for their first couple posts, but to solve this...

@Chen what is you background in mafia games?

[Thespio]

what makes you say "freaking out", that's a very odd choice of words

I it? look at the immidiate reaction from TTTT

[Thespio]

good point, better not vote or lynch anybody then I gues

Im not saying lets no vote, im saying lets not lynch someone 1 day into the game after a very newbie set of posts.

[Thespio]

I also don't see why you "have to agree" with Thespio here. I feel Thespio is misrepping TTTT pretty hard, TTTT never claimed to have it all figured out and the IC point is extremely reachy. Thespio is basically inventing a scum!TTTT narrative to throw shade at him. TTTT even explicitly said not to continue to vote chendennis

I'm kinda thinking regardless of Thespio's alignment this sheepiness looks scummy from CsBlastoise, but just for page 3 bragging rights I'm wondering if this is the scumteam right here.

Do us all a favor, post what I said that was a missrep.

[Thespio]

but how can you agree on this when you don't know what "things" TTTT is pointing out or why he thinks they're scummy? You asked him if he found chen scummy and he said yes, but then you decided not to follow up, that's what I'm trying to understand. And you agreed with Thespio who seemed to be more against the idea of pressuring chendennis for what he's posted at all.

Im sorry but this makes you look dense, if you arent willing to read the game why are you queuing? I can help for all the newbies, click "Activity Overview" and then next to TTTT click ISO.
If you do you can see what people have posted, i dont care if we pressure Chendennis, lets just not lynch someone because of some newbie posts, Im more curious why you are so offensive with nothing to go on. Why dont you think early posts arent NAI? why do you think im miss repping? why are you replying saying im not answering questions when I am? I think you might be the best place to put pressure.

[Thespio]

two more votes on chennis would be a lynch
let's not do that right now plz

Looking at it this seems super LAME

[Thespio]

Im sorry but this makes you look dense, if you arent willing to read the game why are you queuing?

CsBlastoise, you understood exactly what I was saying (and thanks for the reply, that is helping clear some things up for me). What do you think of this comment from Thespio here?

lets just not lynch someone because of some newbie posts,

again, no one was saying to lynch.

Im more curious why you are so offensive with nothing to go on.

I'm not "offensive", I'm asking questions and applying pressure to help me sort people.

Why dont you think early posts arent NAI?

every post is potentially AI. town are always town and scum are always scum, this doesn't change whether it's an early post or a late game post. NAI posts are posts that truly could come from either alignment. AI posts are posts that you think are more likely to come from one or the other. I haven't commented at all on posts I've thought were NAI (Muh's opening, Saint's opening). I am calling out the things that I think would help me and others interpret the game and alignments involved.

why do you think im miss repping? why are you replying saying im not answering questions when I am?

already answered both of these. you still are not answering why you chose to say TTTT and I were "freaking out"

I think you might be the best place to put pressure.

I'd be quite surprised if anyone agreed with you.

You both got on a newbies case because they posted newbie posts, and people do agree with me, Thats fine but TTTT is saying they are scum, I dont know what games you play but scum die, and right now they are at L-2.

Your post is just WIFOM, all over, vomited. You are digging into things with no impact, example, I conciser your actions freaking out. You say they arent, so what? who does this implicate? I say you are acting dense, you dont think you are, cool, who does this impact? scum thrive on misdirection and chaos and thats all you have been adding to this game from your FIRST post.

[Thespio]

@CsBlastoise
I know it's early
but if you had to pick one scum right now
who it be?

Too soon to say.

c'mon
gun to your head who is scum?

Right now, reguardless of our disagreement on NAI early newbie posts, here is my list Town>Scum

CS>TTTT>GuiltyLion

but i cant add anyone else because no one else is posting.

[Thespio]

@screaming wait did you just OMGUS me

thoughts: TTTT is probably town tunneling too hard at the beginning. See Newbie 1912 where Enter pushed Loopdan for a D1 lynch. Somewhere between Null & Town Lean

CsBlastoise is Town Lean for trying not to push town too hard at the beginning.

@Thespio what makes you think people are trying to lynch me? Two of the three on my wagon are applying pressure and the other is OMGUSing(?)

@Screaming an OMGUS is usually indicative of scum, though I won't scumread you off of that.

BAM, a newbie, through and through. I’m 100% sure their early game proves it. Here they are reading games of their opponents, if they’re scum they would have blown up PT not our game.

[Thespio]

1912.... that’s my game. When I won as scum.

[Thespio]

What question did I miss, and that is a wild theory

[Thespio]

@Thespio what makes you think people are trying to lynch me? Two of the three on my wagon are applying pressure and the other is OMGUSing(?)

Thanks, missed this, and TTTT is the kind of person who would lynch you. Don’t really know about Guilty here.

[Thespio]

@chennis
just curious how you knew I was Loopdan

Are you loopdans alt?

[Thespio]

I’m having flashbacks

[Thespio]

, I'm going to sheep urap and TTTT unless one flips scum, since my reads so far pretty much line up.

Sheeping this early into the game, when there are people not posting. this ladies and gentlemen is called a scum tell.

[Thespio]

Thespio plz tell me every thought you've ever had about chennis
thx

Give me a while to read them, I’m strung out tile wise rn

[Thespio]

So I started out thinking he was a newbie, which due to my own inactivity kind of fell stale, after my re read it evolved to a scum/lean due to the number of posts, BUT I do see random tidbits that seem to be town, so by the end im leaning ever so slightly scum. Ive just never seen a newbie post so much as town, maybe its their meta? I still think Guilty is a place we should be looking, but if this is where pressure is needed here is what i want to know:

If you are town, why do you need to post a million and 1 times?

[Thespio]

pls state intent to hammer and why, should you feel it necessary
and dear god please don’t be a joat that self hammers (tttt may be the only one to get that one)
VOTE: ChennisDen

Do you think its odd there is no other major wagon?

[Thespio]

pls state intent to hammer and why, should you feel it necessary
and dear god please don’t be a joat that self hammers (tttt may be the only one to get that one)
VOTE: ChennisDen

Do you think its odd there is no other major wagon?

not really, the only reason there's really a wagon on chennis is people feel the need to have a wagon

somewhere

i'm on it bc i think it's fun :shrug:

pause here.

you don’t think it’s possible scum is/was already on wagon that’s why there is/was no other wagon?

[Thespio]

Lion, IDK if ive seen enough to be completely clear about your alignment but im leaning town, I think we ought to look at chennis's wagon, to me a one wagon game tends to mean scum were on it.

[Thespio]

^Congrats, glad he made it to five, as you know the rest is a breeze

[Thespio]

I dont feel like TTTT is playing like he did when he was a townie, i read him town there, now hes pushing accusations alot harder, he is posting alot more, most of it has no meat to it either. seems susp.

[Thespio]

something is off with this game

agreed

[Thespio]

NotMySpamAccount - mostly null due to few posts. If I had to say, I'd say scum. what little he's posted has given no info other than "chennis is scum"
Screamingnoodle - null due to few posts, but that "we gotta lynch someone" stands out to me.
CsBlastoise - town. he's trying to sort people.
EchoVision - scumlean. weak read due to towny or scummy possible intents. he filled a slot mostly inactive. the sheeping on one hand is irresponsible, but on the other hand could be him applying pressure when he figures out stuff.
chennisden - need i say?
Thespio - town. from his early actions, he could be town as a voice of reason or he could be scum buddying. later play (such as the scumread) discards the buddying, but he could be on my wagon to mislynch.
u r a person 2 - townlean because he did the same as Echo but felt more towny.
TTTT - town. my initial thoughts were scum but your sorting is much more towny than URAP's or Echo's (especially echo.)
GuiltyLion - town. he's actually trying to pressure and sort other people

i kinda group URAP,Echo,NMSA in the same group due to similar play.

Well, we can "Not lynch", but I feel that hurts us on D1 more than anything. If we did this, we have nothing definitive to go on.

A ML is better for town then a NL, so we are definitely killing someone

[Thespio]

agreed

kind of want to hear from Thespio prior to hammer, but am also okay with hammer lol

What would you like to know? I have white underwear on, my middle name is William, and I once plugged a wireless mouse into a professors laptop to screw with them.

[Thespio]

I dont have a solid scum read, the way I see it though is that its VERY unlikely that we have both newbscum, with 4 SEs, I would be willing to bet there is atleast 1, so the NC is likely legit.

[Thespio]

right now just suuuuuuuuper newbie, like I said, there is likely an SE scum, so the people I think we should look at is chen's wagon, newbie, that are lurking/overly active. Thats my 2 cents at this point. I do think we shouldnt push someone to l-1 and back off before they post though. so the flip here seems odd.

[Thespio]

Lion do you think its odd, when we tryed to lynch chen there wasnt any other wagon going? and now when we start pushing noodle we have U R A Person 2 flipping onto chen? to me that looks SUPER scummy.

[Thespio]

added post number to thespio's vote

I dont waste my votes, with no one screaming scum i dont see any reason to use it, although we have half the day left, im fine leaving wagon as is and kiling chen with 1 day remaining.

@lion I agree he has some wierd things but if there is an SE scum I would think they would look better. also no counterwagon would mean (if hes scum) his partner is less active. otherwise you would expect to see a 2nd wagon pop up to try to shift off of them, in my many years of experience it has always been one of those two things.

[Thespio]

Lion do you think its odd, when we tryed to lynch chen there wasnt any other wagon going? and now when we start pushing noodle we have U R A Person 2 flipping onto chen? to me that looks SUPER scummy.

Same exact thought I had on this.. Very scummy

I mean, I dont think you are scum necessarily but this looks like scum switching to someone they read as a PR, seeing as there was no claim from chen.

[Thespio]

maybe me saying that they couldn't be buddies is wrong, i feel like scum!chen could = scum!noodle, however scum!noodle = town!chen IMO
town!noodle = town!chen and town!chen = scum!noodle

how do you feel about U R A Person 2's switch?

[Thespio]

he said one scum on wagon / one scum off wagon referring to noodle, while he was voting her. for him to be town that implies that either he thinks there are more than 2 scum or he thinks that noodle is town while putting her at L-1. it makes a lot more sense to think chen is just newbscum who was too eager to post something that sounded involved/insightful that he didn't realize he was confirming noodle as town while saying it.

Or he thinks there is bussing, really you are playing wifom until you nail him for it, mid maybe questioning his reasoning or what he meant? I know you are town at this point because of this^ but boy you better not ML because you didnt ask questions.

[Thespio]

IDK, something feels off about all this.

[Thespio]

so now, i ask this, if this is scum, was scum on or off the wagon? this question isn't to anybody in particular, open to anyone

who is "this" when you say "if this is scum" - chennisden?

I think most likely scenario is scum!chennisden on the wagon with some partner in {CsBlastoise/Thespio} off the wagon. Small small chance of noodle still being scum with chennisden but the fact that there's a risk of town!noodle in scum!chennisworld whereas probability of town!chennis/scum!noodle is much lower after chen's post, makes chen the better lynch today.

This is pretty close to where i'm at

gun to my head, the team is {Chenn, Thespio}

with {Chen, Blastoise} second

and town!chenn making me look at some combination of Blastoise, Echo, NMSA and maybe still Thespio

Talk about the OMGUS, I think hes scum and I suddenly become his main scum read, why arent you lynching me then? also why are you looking for teams when you have no idea on gods green earth who scum is, meanwhile your flip to chenn is hard scummy. Meanwhile the whole time posting wifom.

VOTE: u r a person 2

Man you are an easy catch now that ive reread you.

[Thespio]

ou nerds wrote 106 posts in the time it took me to drive home from work

read u r a person 2 and post your thoughts.

[Thespio]

FINALLY Thespio does something

between the new job and the wifu ive been busy :p

[Thespio]

Thank you. Let's hammer chen and then move on to noodle. I'm 99% certain at least one is scum.

WOW

[Thespio]

I'm caught up
what don't you like other him thinking you are chennis' partner?

Everything about his switch, it feels unnatural, he goes from what seems all in to someone entirely different, we see 1 wagon which theirs no opposition to, then another where one pops up in time to save their life. the first wagon should sound familiar to you since you died that way last game we played. Im not saying chen isnt scum, i just think U R A Person 2 is.

[Thespio]

hot take, chen is mafia power role that's why Thespio is trying so hard to save him

Literally not playing this game where we try to line up lynches, How is everyone ignoring this weird transition?

[Thespio]

I did, but also day is now over, we managed to waste 5 days. Not odd a newbie lol hammered there, if hes green im pushing you to death.

[Thespio]

i have to go to work shortly, but would both of Thespio and URAP2 mind throwing together little cases on eachother since you both seem to scum read eachother (when you get time of course)? i think it would help everyone, as it can be used as persuasion, as well as forces both of you to relook at the others slot
they don't have to be the most involved thing just somethin to throw out there that's more than "they're conf scum" which neither of you have done, i just don't think this is the thing to get lazy over

also i know this may not be where you want to lynch today, i'm just curious

Ill start something but we are in limbo and the thread could be locked at any moment.

[Thespio]

someone should intend to hammer chennis so we can get his fake-claim out of the way

I'll go ahead and hammer myself, screw it. VOTE: Chennisden

For the future, even if you think its him, declare intent, because you may have just killed a PR, alot can happen in 5 days, you also just wasted our time and time is good for town.

[Thespio]

I can write a stellar case on Thespio but I want that sweet chennis scumflip first to confirm it

Ill be glad to hear it when he flips green and you have nothing.

[Thespio]

Ill be glad to hear it when he flips green and you have nothing.

why are you accepting that I would have something if he did indeed flip red

like if you were town then you'd think that I have nothing either way lmao

Im refering to the fact you are saying he will flip red and when it turns out to be URAP2 you can flog yourself for me, you dont have anything on me, because as you said there isnt anything.

[Thespio]

TTTT, why is what I just did a good idea when you did it to MJL in 1915, but a bad idea now?

shush

Seriously, you practically lolhammered there. I did here. What's the difference?

we had 5 days left, thats the difference, its never ok

[Thespio]

for the record I think he may be faking and WIFOMing his partner there but 100% scumclaim regardless

Im willing to bet your right, lets hear your case, since it looks like hes going to flip red. I think it will be interesting to hear.

[Thespio]

Does anyone have any tips for my scumgame? Since we know I'm
1) scum
2) dead

please don't give me the advice to check if I've actually been killed, i already know that lmao

Dont post so much. The saying is, as soon as your name is out there you are going to die.

[Thespio]

I feel like it just ended because of this limbo time

[Thespio]

Thespio you better town it up tomorrow if you town
you are default lynch right now

Rude. I think we both know I am town, Im going to need to reread because this flip kindof changes my reads.

[Thespio]

We tricked URAP2 guys, lets stop pretending we hammered already and hammer him now

[Thespio]

I find it odd a cop just flipped, he was read parrellel with me, now they’re dead when the split was between us... any chance scum popped him to ensure my lynch? Just asking someone to explain why scum me would kill him.

[Thespio]

assuming Thespio is town, who else could scum mislynch to win this game? NMSA/TTTT/URAP2 feel like extremely difficult mislynches given their interactions around chen on D1. also, with respect to URAP2/TTTT, frankly I think they would have coached chen a little bit more pregame and when he was at L-1 to claim PR to bait a counterclaim. Noodle is very likely conftown given chen's scumslip with respect to "one scum on one scum off" her wagon.

so that leaves Echo, who also looks pretty TvS in his dialogue with chen, and myself, which would be two of three mislynches needed for scum if its in the players named above^. I would have thought for any non!Thespio scum, especially if it were someone like Echo, they would definitely want Blastoise alive as a possible lynch. no matter how I try to angleshoot on this to sanity check myself I still keep coming back to the Blastoise kill being weird but not really changing my overall gamestate view that much.

and I still think chen bringing up Newbie 1912 was something that his partner told him to do, which would again point to Thespio.

Also just to this, several people overlap, and the rest is wifom, you rule people out ignoring the fact people bus each other. Like wtf.

[Thespio]

@Thespio

Who do you think is the remaining scum?

Honestly the NK stumps me, to me that looks like a newbie kill, TTTT says it’s between us and they die.... guilty pinged me as scum early so I’m slowly rereading the game.

[Thespio]

I find it odd a cop just flipped, he was read parrellel with me, now they’re dead when the split was between us... any chance scum popped him to ensure my lynch? Just asking someone to explain why scum me would kill him.

so that you could open day2 with this post

So people say it’s one of us, I don’t kill you or someone more prominently townie, and kill someone who is still being Sr? That makes total sense. Except it doesn’t in any way, make any sense, tbf though we killed 1 scum, a ML at this point won’t end the game for us. So if killing me gives you better clarity I’ll write it off as an acceptable sacrifice, I’ve been to busy anyways.

[Thespio]

@Thespio

Who do you think is the remaining scum?

After re reading the biggest thing that stands out to me is Chen's interactions with guilty, to me chen seems to avoid interaction, to push it off, then we get stuff like this:

hmmmmm

I'm not sure I totally buy this. 1912 is indeed a relevant game to look at, it has 3 players from this game in it, one of which was scum. So it's plausible an eager newbie town would decide to look through that game.

Which seems off as well, to me, I would put all my chips on Lion.

[Thespio]

yet you don't vote him

TBH Im re reading you now, your responses are shit.

[Thespio]

there are 3 scum

Do me a favor, explain what this is.

[Thespio]

Yeah ive reread TTTT, i dont think hes scum, I think its lion at this point VOTE: GuiltyLion Hopefully you can sort that NK out tomorrow.

[Thespio]

Yea, I tend to agree with TTTT and URAP2.

The NK makes no sense at all. It actually helped the Village case of what Cs's role and alignment is due to Chennis departure.

It would actually make more sense for scum if the NK was someone other than CS. It would have left us more in confusion if it would actually be Cs or not.
Due to this and what TTTT and URAP2 have mentioned...

I'll wait to vote...

Right so ask yourself, If Lion is scum, their scum buddy gets put on the chopping block and now they are solo, town states their next two lynches, they kill CS because cs is town and they know im town, now they are set up for a slow recovery, they also arent posting to the blame for a ML. Honestly look at him hard D3.

[Thespio]

I don't disagree with you. Especially as hard as GL pressed me to be a town ML D1. Had most of the town convinced... I'm just glad that everyone saw the light. I was FOR SURE scum would have NK'd me. However, I think it would have been too easy for them to do.

There is just so much that doesnt add up, and you got lion over there pretending he has solutions to everything.

[Thespio]

Dun Dun Duuuun, man I painted myself into a corner there, was trying to get my goon to calm down an post a little less and ended up killing myself

[Thespio]

Got the cop tho

[Thespio]

sorry for the tough loss scum-team
you guys were playing against a stacked deck here

Beat you last time though :p until next time

[Thespio]

CsBlastoise investigates Thespio - Thespio is Mafia
Thespio kills CsBlastoise - CsBlastoise is killed

Still think this was the best nk for our situation though

[Thespio]

just out of curiosity though thespio, why did you go with the CsBlastoise NK? i feel like that would've been the easiest mislynch of D2, so i (as doc) didn't even think of targeting that spot... i figured you'd go somewhere in the stacked/more or less confirmed townblock of TTTT, NMSA, or GL. personally i prob would've went with a TTTT nightkill but that's just me, i feel like TTTT had a very strong case for town and would've been a super difficult mislynch, with experience playing into it as well i wouldn't have liked to keep him alive longer than i had to

It was a gambit and I figured the PR was likely someone hiding, So hit fit both bills, his lurky nature and how town perceived him made me think i could cause enough paranoia to survive another day. obviously i was wrong since i died so fast, but my hunt was dead on. I did it my last scum game too :p

[Thespio]

Thanks for modding Micc
Flawless modding as always!
please release my PT

Town did great!
the SEs killed it and the newbie townies did great too once everything got rolling

sorry for the tough loss scum-team
you guys were playing against a stacked deck here

So at my old firm I blocked your creepy photo, and When I got to this new one and logged in I was genuinely upset that I had to see it again :p

[Thespio]

IDK we passed over Chen early on, so I thought we were safe but they were too eager and ended up in the spotlight again.

[Thespio]

No, Thespio. Your best move would have been to roleblock me and leave me alive. It would have left me absolutely frustrated at not getting a night result and, frankly, rather disoriented because my D2 plan was to out you as scum even at the risk of my own (in-game) life (provided you did come up as scum).

You are wrong, the flop from my scum buddy put you as an easy town read, I thought I could wifom a setup but my stance on my scum buddy made me to susp even for that. You were basicly guaranteed town, you were a PR, and I was at the end of a very thin fraying rope, it was the best lynch by far.