Newbie 1917 - Game Over

[chennisden]

US Pacific, UTC-8. Will be on during afternoons.

PEdit:

I did not see the Modpost until after I posted.

Also, I don't have much experience, I just stumbled upon the wiki one day and started reading through. Of course, to get experience you have to play (which I haven't done before).

[Micc]

Votecount 1.03

chennisden (3) -

GuiltyLion, TTTT, Screamingnoodle

TTTT (2) -

SaintAngelDFE, NotMySpamAccount

Thespio (1) -

muh316

Screamingnoodle (1) -

chennisden

GuiltyLion (1) -

Thespio

Not Voting (1) -

CsBlastoise

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2019-02-24 11:15:00).

[Thespio]

@screaming wait did you just OMGUS me

thoughts: TTTT is probably town tunneling too hard at the beginning. See Newbie 1912 where Enter pushed Loopdan for a D1 lynch. Somewhere between Null & Town Lean

CsBlastoise is Town Lean for trying not to push town too hard at the beginning.

@Thespio what makes you think people are trying to lynch me? Two of the three on my wagon are applying pressure and the other is OMGUSing(?)

@Screaming an OMGUS is usually indicative of scum, though I won't scumread you off of that.

BAM, a newbie, through and through. I’m 100% sure their early game proves it. Here they are reading games of their opponents, if they’re scum they would have blown up PT not our game.

[GuiltyLion]

chennis/CsBlastoise, it's not "lurking" to not post in a 24 hour window, people have lives that keep them away from the site for extended periods of time. I don't really consider someone a lurker until it's been several (as in 3 or 4+) days, including times where they've posted but failed to give content, or promised it later and then missed that self-imposed deadline.

I'm surprised by the reference to Newbie 1912. chen, what made you look at that game in particular? Did you know Loopdan is the same player as TTTT? And do you really think any time a player tunnels another player D1, they are town?

Also, you say TTTT is town tunneling too hard, and then CsBlastoise is town because he's not pushing too hard. What kind of behavior would you think is scum indicative at this point, if any?

[Thespio]

1912.... that’s my game. When I won as scum.

[chennisden]

May change vote to Muh due to "voting for salt"

do you think scum is more likely to "vote for salt" than town?

You're right, RVS is a bad way to scumread. I'll wait for more content before I can really say who scum is.

bc it's the only way to kill scum

Its also a good way to kill town.

good point, better not vote or lynch anybody then I guess

If you're town, you should probably cut the sarcasm. It'll only make scum happy.

And I need to keep a note of this because this is the first scummy thing I've seen a person I consider towny to do. This isn't very substantive yet, but good to remember.

@CsBlastoise
I know it's early
but if you had to pick one scum right now
who it be?

Too soon to say.

good point, better not vote or lynch anybody then I gues

Im not saying lets no vote, im saying lets not lynch someone 1 day into the game after a very newbie set of posts.

Yeah, we need more than five one-liners, one of which was an EBWOP, to justify a lynch on anyone. That being said, if chen doesn't add much soon, a case could be made for lurking.

Thank you for pointing out the possibility that Thespio's actions could be scummy. I think the main part of it I agree with is not so much that TTTT is trying to push something, but that

the things TTTT may be pointing out might just be "newbies trying to learn to play."

but how can you agree on this when you don't know what "things" TTTT is pointing out or why he thinks they're scummy? You asked him if he found chen scummy and he said yes, but then you decided not to follow up, that's what I'm trying to understand. …

Maybe a better way to respond to TTTT would have been, "Well, I think it looks more like newbie behavior than scum behavior, but, knowing that you have more experience than I do, I would not be surprised if you picked up on something I may not have." But yes, now I'm realizing that I should ask @TTTT, just what is it in Chen's minimal content that you find scummy?

And you agreed with Thespio who seemed to be more against the idea of pressuring chendennis for what he's posted at all.

That being said, I do think we should investigate chen more, particularly by asking him directly for input and getting some participation from him — I mean, come on, he's only got five posts so far, and each one was only one line long (not counting the quote in one of them).

maybe I'm being unfair here, but if you want to ask him for input/participation, why not do that yourself?

Sure.
@Chennisden, what do you have to say about these reads on you? Anything you have to say for yourself?

(even though Thespio seems to want to sell that narrative)
b

Im not trying to sell anything, you are saying he is newb scum, im teasing you because it seems silly to jump on a newbie for their first couple posts, but to solve this...

@Chen what is you background in mafia games?

About these reads: TTTT seems to be the head of my wagon (though he is advising not to lynch, not even the most beginner of scum would say "yes lynch" on D1). Given he scumread me off of basically nothing, something tells me he's trying to get me killed while trying not to look like he's getting me killed. Of course there isn't that much to go off of, but rn my strongest scumread is TTTT.

And my background in mafia games - I've read 2 or 3 games to completion, including one with Thespio and Loopdan (though I won't be able to meta well, two birds with one stone right?). However, this is my first time playing.

PEDIT:
@Guilty yes I am aware TTTT=Loopdan. I'm not sure if he wanted it to be kept secret-ish (though on second thought he literally reveals).

And I looked at 1912 because TTTT and Thespio were in the same game and it was recent. Considering that 1912 was the only time Thespio rolled scum, it was in my opinion the most informative to read.

At this point I think hard tunneling is scum. Though I'm not very confident on TTTT scum, I do want to note that saying "don't lynch someone in <24 hrs" doesn't make him town. Even the most stupid scum wouldn't say "Hey let's kill town D1," and given TTTT is experienced he may have thought it good to establish towncred early.

[chennisden]

And as for the lurking, you're right - hypocritical of me to say that after not posting in a 16 hr timespan. But I think I was sorta right given Saint had to replace.

[chennisden]

Reads organized because mine are currently scattered:

TTTT: Slight scumlean

Screaming: basically null. one OMGUS but can be explained by 1) RVS 2) newness

Thespio: Weird case here, he has some incredibly townish behavior but some really weird scum behavior (such as, if he is scum, buddying). I will give thoughts. Since he's experienced I don't think he'd be a newbscum inconsistently playing. I have some thoughts about his role, but don't want to share them yet. Slight Town-lean (though this is subject to change). Keep in mind role not alignment

GL: Town-lean. Goes without explanation. He is simply advancing town meta.

Blastoise: I am not going to Conf-town anyone in <24 hrs. But he's the closest.

everyone else: null.

I would vote TTTT, but if he's town I don't want scum to be able to theoretically decide to hammer him if they have to. Putting anyone at L-2 is bad (but I think TTTT is scummy so scum can't completely hammer me.)

[chennisden]

This vote is not going to be putting any pressure.

UNVOTE:

[GuiltyLion]

hmmmmm

I'm not sure I totally buy this. 1912 is indeed a relevant game to look at, it has 3 players from this game in it, one of which was scum. So it's plausible an eager newbie town would decide to look through that game.

At the same time, the conclusion you reached from it feels quite shoehorned/surface level, you've since reversed it completely, and I have this crazy conspiracy theory that Thespio told you to bring up that game in your scum PT. there's something off about the fact that

you

are aware and commenting that it's Thespio's only scumgame. feels coached. You don't claim to have read any of my scum games or TTTT's scum games. Or even NMSA's scumgame which was also brought up in this thread.

but I don't wanna go too buckwild with D1 assumptions so I'm gonna sit on this and see what the less active slots wanna do. Did you notice Thespio ignored your question?

also, perhaps more significantly, I thought you were townreading TTTT. how did you go from this:

thoughts: TTTT is probably town tunneling too hard at the beginning. See Newbie 1912 where Enter pushed Loopdan for a D1 lynch. Somewhere between Null & Town Lean

to this:

Given he scumread me off of basically nothing, something tells me he's trying to get me killed while trying not to look like he's getting me killed. Of course there isn't that much to go off of, but rn my strongest scumread is TTTT.

[Thespio]

What question did I miss, and that is a wild theory

[GuiltyLion]

@Thespio what makes you think people are trying to lynch me? Two of the three on my wagon are applying pressure and the other is OMGUSing(?)

[chennisden]

1912 was the only game I read after the 1917 thread started.

And iirc Thespio claimed somewhere it was his only scumgame

[Thespio]

@Thespio what makes you think people are trying to lynch me? Two of the three on my wagon are applying pressure and the other is OMGUSing(?)

Thanks, missed this, and TTTT is the kind of person who would lynch you. Don’t really know about Guilty here.

[chennisden]

hmmmmm

I'm not sure I totally buy this. 1912 is indeed a relevant game to look at, it has 3 players from this game in it, one of which was scum. So it's plausible an eager newbie town would decide to look through that game.

At the same time, the conclusion you reached from it feels quite shoehorned/surface level, you've since reversed it completely, and I have this crazy conspiracy theory that Thespio told you to bring up that game in your scum PT. there's something off about the fact that

you

are aware and commenting that it's Thespio's only scumgame. feels coached. You don't claim to have read any of my scum games or TTTT's scum games. Or even NMSA's scumgame which was also brought up in this thread.

but I don't wanna go too buckwild with D1 assumptions so I'm gonna sit on this and see what the less active slots wanna do. Did you notice Thespio ignored your question?

also, perhaps more significantly, I thought you were townreading TTTT. how did you go from this:

thoughts: TTTT is probably town tunneling too hard at the beginning. See Newbie 1912 where Enter pushed Loopdan for a D1 lynch. Somewhere between Null & Town Lean

to this:

Given he scumread me off of basically nothing, something tells me he's trying to get me killed while trying not to look like he's getting me killed. Of course there isn't that much to go off of, but rn my strongest scumread is TTTT.

I was confusing some of your actions with TTTT since your initial play was very similar. And my strongest scumread is a slight one.

Yet given he knows how bad applying early pressure is (it got Townie AND PR killed), it seems he's doing this on purpose.

I need to look at Thespio deeper. He seems like he's buddying if he's Mafia

[Screamingnoodle]

@screaming wait did you just OMGUS me

thoughts: TTTT is probably town tunneling too hard at the beginning. See Newbie 1912 where Enter pushed Loopdan for a D1 lynch. Somewhere between Null & Town Lean

CsBlastoise is Town Lean for trying not to push town too hard at the beginning.

@Thespio what makes you think people are trying to lynch me? Two of the three on my wagon are applying pressure and the other is OMGUSing(?)

@Screaming an OMGUS is usually indicative of scum, though I won't scumread you off of that.

I have no idea what that means. I simply voted for you, as you voted for me when all I did was show up?
Haha Is that what that means?

[chennisden]

An "OMGUS" is when you vote for someone after they voted for you. Given that it was RVS, your OMGUS wouldn't have meant much if it didn't mean Mafia can lynch me at any time (presuming everyone on my wagon is Town).

And yeah I just picked a random name to vote for. Looking back there were better people to vote for, but hindsight 20/20

[chennisden]

Since you seem to be null and nobody is voting you anyway, I've taken my vote off you since it won't do anything

[Screamingnoodle]

UNVOTE: Chan

In kind, returning the favor. Lol

But still no idea who to vote for. Looks like we are leaning TTTT, though. Idk

[chennisden]

I don't want TTTT lynched so soon, but I do want him to get some pressure

Hope he can explain why I've been scumread off of a bunch of one-liners

[TTTT]

@chennis
just curious how you knew I was Loopdan

[Thespio]

@chennis
just curious how you knew I was Loopdan

Are you loopdans alt?

[TTTT]

you paying attention?

[chennisden]

@TTTT

"occupation: Loopdan's alt"

[TTTT]

lol I forgot about that
when did you see that?