Newbie 1922: Give Smith Another Day - Game Over

[ThatOneMedic]

Hey guys! Long-time (4+ year!) on/off site-lurker, first time player. Pretty excited; I recognize at least a couple of you from a few of the games I've been reading recently.
I looked at the first couple of pages while I was waiting to replace in, but since I still need to catch up on most of it, I'm probably just going to reread and give a play-by-play on some of my thoughts. At least while I'm awake enough.
Nice meeting everyone!

[ThatOneMedic]

UNVOTE:

[ThatOneMedic]

@redMeow, what do you make of Cowbells' vote on you?

Liked this a lot and don't really see it coming from scum very often. Pretty much only town cares about seeing Red's reaction to that vote. (If he's scum, any sort of potential over-reaction could be pretty telling or at least have a chance to generate a decent bit of discussion, whereas I'm fully confident anyone who's legitimately town would shrug that vote off pretty easily, so it's unlikely that Kobayashi's scum trying to look for something to push for an early bandwagon target either.)

@redMeow, what do you make of Cowbells' vote on you?

At the current state just as much as I make of everyone elses votes.
Maybe we can have his sober thoughts then.

Pretty much exactly the sort of town reaction I was expecting, though even if he was scum, I don't think that was a very hard trap to avoid.

You were only town when you were drunk? Now as a sober player you are scum?

surely you can ask better questions than this?

@redMeow, what do you make of Cowbells' vote on you?

MKM - what kind of information/answer were you looking to get out of redMeow here? what do

you

make of RC's vote that you asked about?

I had a bit more of an opinion on this when I quoted it. These questions don't seem particularly townish, but I don't think I caught anything else more pressing to ask about, so that might just be an inquisitive approach that doesn't have much material to work with.

Welp

I

was

town btw.

glgl

Why do you use past tense to describe your current alignment?

I just want to leave the following thought here...
How do you know that town is his current allignment?

Of course I know you might just be assuming... but that statement caught my attention, maybe because it's so flat out.

I wasn't assuming anything. I was using his words and the way he phrased something to inform a question. It's not a particularly inflammatory question or one that I expected much in response to. More witty banter towards another old timer looking to see if there is a rapport or not.

What do you mean by it's so flat out?

This post seemed overly defensive for what seems like could have been easily explained away as an issue of phrasing.
It seemed like there's a relatively simple explanation for how the question comes to be written that way, and that wasn't it.

@mod, RadiantCowbells is voting redMeow right now and the vote count doesn't reflect it

what do you make of RC's vote that you asked about?

The vote stood out to me because it seemed ambiguous as to whether it was a RVS vote or a more genuine one. Gun to my head, I'd assume it's closer to the former.

- what kind of information/answer were you looking to get out of redMeow here?

After the vote she asked RC about something that I thought was pretty clearly a joke, and I wondered if the vote factored into that at all. Figured it couldn't hurt to ask what she thought about it. I don't feel like I got any information out of this, but I don't have any problems with her answer.

Pretty much my mindset. I didn't catch the question that Red asked, though.

Welp

I

was

town btw.

glgl

Why do you use past tense to describe your current alignment?

I just want to leave the following thought here...
How do you know that town is his current allignment?

Of course I know you might just be assuming... but that statement caught my attention, maybe because it's so flat out.

I wasn't assuming anything. I was using his words and the way he phrased something to inform a question. It's not a particularly inflammatory question or one that I expected much in response to. More witty banter towards another old timer looking to see if there is a rapport or not.

What do you mean by it's so flat out?

Yeah I see.
I meant the wording, the phrasing, which I thought was a little... straight? Sharp? Idk a better word, sry.

For someone who seems to be talking a decent bit so far, red is picking some strange points to converse on.
Especially for someone who later brought up how slowly the game was going. I feel like there's been at least a little bit more to discuss at this point that Red's kind of left untouched, and that's not great.

Hi all, my first game here (for many years anyway, so I wont count that!) and I'm looking forward to seeing how it goes. Not many reads so far, although cowbells drunk comment was maybe a bit weird, as was mkm's questioning of cowbells vote.

The more I think about it, the more I feel uneasy with the questioning. Ignoring the fact the vote didn't count, because that's not what my thoughts are about, it was clearly a joke vote with nothing behind it, but for MKM to then push questioning as if it was serious makes me feel like it was a scummy move, trying to build a case against either cowbell or redMeow where there is clearly nothing more than a random vote. Mkm's explanation above doesn't really cut it for me either, too noncommittal.

Scum read so far on MKM, still deciding on others.

"Clearly a joke vote with nothing behind it" probably isn't a quote that comes out of town at this point in the game, and I definitely don't think it turns into an accusation like this under town motivation. This is either scum or

really

misguided, and I feel pretty sure it's the former.

Going to split these up page-by-page so people have a chance to ask questions and don't have to read a 30-foot wall of text.

[ThatOneMedic]

If I pinkie promised you that I was town would you believe me?

Seals don't have pinkies. This guy's scum.
Wait, maybe they only have one giant pinkie.
Can we get mod confirmation on seal anatomy?

The more I think about it, the more I feel uneasy with the questioning. Ignoring the fact the vote didn't count, because that's not what my thoughts are about, it was clearly a joke vote with nothing behind it, but for MKM to then push questioning as if it was serious makes me feel like it was a scummy move, trying to build a case against either cowbell or redMeow where there is clearly nothing more than a random vote. Mkm's explanation above doesn't really cut it for me either, too noncommittal.

I second this. Most of the previous responses seemed like just small banter between the SEs to me.

@mod, RadiantCowbells is voting redMeow right now and the vote count doesn't reflect it

This in particular stood out to me—I was the first to point out Cowbells' bracket mistake, so I'm sure if he really meant to vote redMeow he would have remedied his vote. Seems like a bit too much pushing to ask the mod to count a vote the voter himself doesn't seem to care about counting. I don't buy his justification for questioning the ambiguity of the vote—first day, "secret reasons," should be kind of obvious it was RVS.

Just because that vote was in RVS didn't mean it had no potential. I still like MKM's question.

Appreciate RVS is still maybe ongoing, thought I might share some thoughts from what people have said.

Cowbells has pinkie promised he is town, and we all know pinkie promises are law, so town.
Formerfish - some gentle poking, null read maybe town so far.
MJL - null
Blooper - says they're happy with a random vote on formerfish? No explanation for this? Hmm.
redmeow - not sure, could be town leaning, seem genuine questioning but a push for things to speed up. nerves maybe? Will hedge bets on town so far.
ClearlyClarity, so far null, need some more content
GuiltyLion - some genuine questions, so far null
MKM - currently my scummiest read as per my previous post.

This read list kind of says nothing. It's understandable to have very few reads this early on, but at least asking a question would make it seem less out of place. Why post this in the first place?

Wassup everyone. Complete newbie here, haven't played a single game ever. Let's see how this goes.

VOTE: RadiantCowbells for improper conduct

Welcome, ClearlyClarity. I know we're not too deep into the game, but I hope you're enjoying yourself so far and that you find the game is fun and challenging. Have you ever played a game similar to this before?

Thank you for the kind welcome, Mary! I have played a minigame with a similar concept on a platformer called Transformice, only less discussion-based and more about discerning visual cues. As a forum game, it feels like the beginning seems rather slow to me—but then again that's perfectly understandable.

Transformice is

delightful.

@mod, RadiantCowbells is voting redMeow right now and the vote count doesn't reflect it

This in particular stood out to me—I was the first to point out Cowbells' bracket mistake, so I'm sure if he really meant to vote redMeow he would have remedied his vote. Seems like a bit too much pushing to ask the mod to count a vote the voter himself doesn't seem to care about counting. I don't buy his justification for questioning the ambiguity of the vote—first day, "secret reasons," should be kind of obvious it was RVS.

...so I shouldn't poke the mod if I think their vote count isn't accurate? Definitely should've read the rules more carefully and known the vote didn't count in the first place, but I'm weirded out that you called out this in particular. The rest of my post was waaay scummier

In general I feel the suspicion on me is coming from a good place. GuiltyLion's question was good, I've liked demigodrick's posts thus far. I'm really confused as to why Clarity got a scumread off that modpoke instead of a "read the rules dumbass" read, but idk if I make anything of it. Don't have much of anything on anybody else. Will revisit the thread again tonight before I get ready to sleep.[/quote]

Wait, what? I thought that post was pretty town-motivated, and you seemed to feel that way when you posted it. I do understand acknowledging the suspicions against you, but why are you suddenly calling the rest of your own post scummy?

[ThatOneMedic]

I broke my quote tags and couldn't figure out how to fix it in preview. :c

Hey guys! Long-time (4+ year!) on/off site-lurker, first time player. Pretty excited; I recognize at least a couple of you from a few of the games I've been reading recently.
I looked at the first couple of pages while I was waiting to replace in, but since I still need to catch up on most of it, I'm probably just going to reread and give a play-by-play on some of my thoughts. At least while I'm awake enough.
Nice meeting everyone!

Yeah, I noticed you didn't /in on the newbie queue. I don't want to read too far into anything, but do you qualify as a newbie according to MS's definition of a newbie?

I know that sounds accusatory and I apologize for that. I just want to get a feel for people's skill level.

First game here, so I'm definitely a Newbie! Like I said, though, I've lurked this site on and off for about 4 years. (By that, I pretty much mean reading games during my between-class commutes.)
So I'd at least like to imagine that I'm not entirely clueless.
I've pretty much been too anxious to actually join a game for the majority of that time, though.

I didn't actually expect to be playing in this one either, honestly. I actually recently finished reading a Newbie game that had both yourself, Mr. Seal, and a couple of others in it; after the game was over, the newbie queue was so empty that almost everyone from that game queued in again together, and I was pretty tempted to join because I kind of knew everybody. By the time I'd considered it, though, I'd missed the game by one slot.

Then, suddenly, another game with a few of the same people needed a replacement, so I jumped on it.
It was pretty spur-of-the-moment. Glad I did, though. This is way less terrifying than I'd had it in my head. I guess spending that much time spectating something without participating kind of does that to you.

(sorry for the ramble, but take this as my introduction since I kind of missed that in the first place)

p-edit: Mystery solved, excellent zoology

[ThatOneMedic]

I think you are scum!!! talk to me about this?

Oh no!!1!

Want to expand a little on why? So I have something to talk to you about...

Also, as I am not voting yet, VOTE: MKM as my scummiest read

This is the type of potential scumreaction that I expected from Seal's* early vote on Red. I think it would depend from player to player on whether or not a townie might make a guess as to why Seal might be suspecting them here, but I feel like scum has MUCH more of a reason to avoid making that guess; they're more likely to be aware of any scumtells they might have dropped, so it seems like they wouldn't want to guess wrong and bring to the town's attention something scummy they've done that nobody even noticed.

* (I'm sorry, but for how often I've seen you I cannot for the life of me consistently remember what "RC" stands for, especially since there's a Red in this game and I believe another user on this site whose initials are "RC" and also has a name beginning with "Red", so if you're okay with it I think it'd be easier for me to just call you "Seal".)

so you gonna vote me or what?

Love a move like that

MKM, can I ask you to respond to my point regarding your non committal comments, specifically:

The vote stood out to me because it seemed ambiguous as to whether it was a RVS vote or a more genuine one. Gun to my head, I'd assume it's closer to the former.

Sounds like you are setting yourself up for something you can go back on later. I feel this is the source on my scum read so far.

I see CC's point in relation to MKM pushing for the vote, but I'm not sure if that's the important but here. RC`s whole thing so far is weird for someone so experienced, but I'll see what they say to me first before we go down that route

Probably the first thing Demi's posted that I feel like there's a solid possibility for town motivation behind. At least he's explaining himself well enough and asking questions. This particular thought process seems simple enough to be pretty easily faked from a scum PoV, though.

Quickly summarizing what happened since our two substitutes got in... (mainly actually for myself, but feel free to follow, comment and complete my thoughts).

Alright so to be honest, I think the initial "mod poke" wasn't too bad. I expected it to be counted as well - shame on me, I just missed that the mod didn't count it, else I might have "poked" the mod as well about it.
It's just interesting what resulted from it. When being confronted, I think MKM made up weird excuses.

What was the intention behind the "failed" vote though? Was there any intention at all? Is it of any value at this stage of the game?
In my opinion: not really atm.

RadiantCowbells and MaryJoLisa apparently know each other from previous game(s) and did a "pinkie promise" lol. What is it worth, though? Is there anything we can conclude so far?
I don't like how they might or might not stick together "behind the scenes". Maybe a valuable early game alliance - let's just hope in that case that they both actually are townies.
My thought though on it: it's just their way of saying hi to each other, without it actually having a deeper meaning.

I kinda like how Demigodrick just hopped into this and already came up with his reads on people. Although I would say it's a little to early for that.
Quickly answering what you said about me: yes, maybe I was a little too pushy here - but just curious how this works. I know there's still over a week for this day phase, so there's no real need to rush anything, this wasn't my intention.

I don't remember, was Red previously going after MKM very hard prior to this? This feels sheep-y. There's not much content compared to the amount of text here, either. The bits of substance are a point against MKM and a general positive read on Demi; the rest seems to be a compilation of bringing up game events and then talking about how they don't amount to much, which doesn't feel great.
Oh, and a response to an earlier question that feels at least a little bit genuine.

@Newbies - be as pushy as you want to be. There's no harm in early pressure or driving discussion on things you feel are worth discussing.

~Medic: This kind of attitude clears up a few of my earlier issues with his opening posts. Good vibes from Lion now.

VOTE: Miss Kobayashi Maru

Definitely should've read the rules more carefully and known the vote didn't count in the first place, but I'm weirded out that you called out this in particular. The rest of my post was waaay scummier

I can't remember the last time I've seen town refer to themselves or anything they've posted as scummy. Why do you think your post was scummy?

Yes! This, exactly!

I don't know why someone who

knows the town motivation

for a post would second-guess that motivation.

MKM, can I ask you to respond to my point regarding your non committal comments,

I'd characterize them as noncommital due to not thinking much would come from asking about the vote in the first place. A lot of Cowbells' messing around early in the game threw me for a loop, and I wasn't sure whether the "secret reasons" was due to not liking something about redMeow's intro or if it was just them messing around more. Due to how early on in the game it was I figured it was most likely messing around, but it was something that I stopped and thought about for a sec. Apparently I was the only one who did, which makes me feel a little silly.

I brought it up because I was getting antsy about not much happening in the game, and since other people were going back and forth about past tense roleclaims, I didn't feel like anything was off limits to ask about at that stage.

I can't remember the last time I've seen town refer to themselves or anything they've posted as scummy. Why do you think your post was scummy?

I see why people think it looks like me casually encouraging redMeow to go after Cowbells on a very flimsy basis. And just in terms of tone. When you asked me about the post in the first place I froze up a little, because while it wasn't a question that had

zero

thought or reasoning behind it, I didn't have much expectation of anything coming from it, so my answer devolves more and more into "Idk, I didn't think it through that far" the more I talk about it. Actions that make less sense the more you pick at them are often scummy. That's why I said I felt the suspicion on me was coming from a good place earlier.

Okay, I can understand the thought process here. It doesn't seem to be as much of a backpedal as I initially thought. MKM seems pretty focused on the way his posts are coming across, which is fishy, but I'm still townreading him for some reason. I think it's because his reactions and explanations of his thought process have seemed pretty genuine. And I still like that early question.

@MKM, I'm not entirely satisfied with your response, because it either boils down to you trying to start something from an RVS vote, which to me looks scummy, or you are being genuine in what you say, but can't commit to anything for some reason.

Care to share your reads on everybody so far?

This case seems weak, and this accusation is either scummy or overly stubborn. I think that's the second or third time I've described one of his actions as "scummy or X", and I don't think a townie can be that many Xs. Still my biggest scumread so far.

anybody want to explain why they're voting for this guy?

he's trying a little too hard in a way that I can imagine being fake

Yeah, this is a pretty accurate way to sum up a few of my issues with Demi. More points for Lion.

Bolding my responses to these reads.

Care to share your reads on everybody so far?

Cowbells

: His messing around isn't towny or scummy and they've only just started making real posts, so I've got nothing yet.

~Medic: Yeah, essentially zero reads on this guy. Can't find much motivation in any direction so far.

GL

: His question that kicked this whole thing off was good. I'm surprised that he backed off me so quickly and I don't share his suspicion of you, but again, those developments are recent and I need to see more before I know what to think.

~Medic: I want to hear more from Lion on the next few pages. He definitely seems like he's trying to advance a town wincon.

demiGodrick

: Your suspicion of me seemed fair. You "hmm"d at Blooper keeping their vote on FormerFish but haven't tried to follow up on that, which is kind of weird, but I get following the read you're most confident in. Blooper's also been relatively inactive.

~Medic: Demi seems to at least be attempting to exhibit a town thought process, but his explanations are kind of stretching it and I still don't feel like he's been actually trying to do much so much as

appear

to be trying to do something.

MJL

: Not much to go off here either, want to see more substance. Nice person though

~Medic: This. I can't tell if MJL is being quieter than she was in the games that I watched or if I'm just feeling that way because she replaced in pretty late and I'm remembering it being earlier than it was. Want to hear more either way, but I kind of recognize the passive style.

redMeow

: Strikes me as another slightly confused new player. In much the same boat as me, posts wanting the game to get out of RVS, asking FormerFish about a jokey post. I'm tempted to townread her because of that, but again, I don't feel like I have much yet.

~Medic: Not feeling great about Red, but I don't think the problems I've had with her posts are as egregious as some others. Would really like to hear more. If she doesn't talk much in the next few pages, I have a lot of questions to ask.

Clarity

: Her point about my modpoke felt like reaching in order to distinguish her suspicion of me from yours. I may be fixating on that a little much though, since I got home late last night after a rough workday and got all indignant about being scumread for trying to correct the votecount, albeit incompetently. I also think it's strange that she went back and forth with me for a while, sticking to her guns, but never committed to a vote. It's not much, but I'm interested in why that is.

~Medic: Gonna be honest, I completely blanked on this person. I don't know if they just haven't said much or if I just haven't noticed anything strange about them.

Blooper

: Two posts thus far, I didn't think there was anything bad about their keeping their vote on FF even if I didn't really agree with it.

~Medic: Agreed. Someone should probably replace this guy.

FF

: Again, most of their activity is from when the game was the least serious. Hope you feel better bro.

~Medic: Had to look at the player list for this one too. Had the one odd issue with them. Need to hear more to know what it means.

I'm stingy with townreads. Am paying the most attention to GL and Clarity right now.

you know I'm trying to keep these short but maybe I should break them into half-pages each because I feel like these are kind of unreadably long

p-edit: I was under the impression that "p-edit" was just a response added in to a new message that appeared whilst previewing.
Good to meet you too. From what I've read of your games, you seem nice to play with.

@Seal: I only know that you seem to have played a lot of games, and that you don't seem to be playing much differently from those I've seen. Currently can't read you at all!
But at least you seem fun.
Who's Grand? Do you mean Demi? I still have half the game to read, but Demi's probably my first lynch choice as well. Need to hear more from Red.

[ThatOneMedic]

Going to break on the reading for tonight to give people a chance to digest this. (APPARENTLY I ADVANCED THIS GAME TWO PAGES OK THEN)
Will probably get fully caught up tomorrow.
Does anyone have any suggestions for particular sections they'd like me to comment on/pay attention to as I go?

[ThatOneMedic]

okay so my highlights from page 5 basically just ended up being the "Medic reviews FF's isos" mega-compilation

Bolding my thoughts as per the previous post.

redMeow:
12- Standard newbie opening post, maybe a little LAMIST and over explainy, but nothing worthwhile really. I can dig the RVS vote.

~Medic: Agree with this.

13- Noted borked vote tags.
21- Question to RC.
29- Answers mKms question about RCs vote. I like the answer.

~Medic: Agree with this, too.

32- Questioned me.

~Medic: Thoughts on these questions? IMO, Red's early conversation choices are a little peculiar.

42-Responded to me, didn't wilt.
45- Weekend question.
63- Response to Maryjo.
81- Summary of events thus far for replacements and self. This one was actually interesting. I know you said it was for yourself as well as the people who replaced in, but the game wasn't off of page 3 when you did this. Why not let the people read the 80 posts made and catch themselves up. The failed vote could have been a gambit by RC to see who pushed the vote not being counted. You say you almost did the same thing, but you didn't. Could be that you didn't have as much of a drive to see that lynch go through? And then talking out of both sides of your mouth with Demi where you like the reads list but say it was early for it. I can see scum in some of this post, but I also see eager beaver as well. In a newbie I give this some leeway before tunneling.

Medic: Thought process from FF here seems pretty genuine. Still don't feel great about Red's post here.

Null, townlean.

After rereading all of Red's posts again, I don't feel like I'm scumreading them as much. That might just be because I've had a night to sleep on it, though. Still have issues with the choices for early questions and parts of post 81, though.

NutsHanging

MaryJo: This might be inflammatory to some, but I have seen my fair share of newbies roll scum and then flake. Not saying you're scum here, but unfortunately from my experience your slot has a higher starting scum equity.
46- Answers Reds weekend question.
48- Welcome banter.
50- Welcome banter.
53- Banter.
56- Welcome banter.
57- Banter.
59- Banter.
66- Banter.
68- Banter.
73- Welcome banter.
82- Confirms Reds analysis of interaction with RC, I dislike the idea of meta being brought up with such little history between the players.
85- Banter.
87- Clarification post. Honestly leaves me more confused. Why did you feel like you needed to EBWOP? Are you attempting to indicate sarcasm with the quotation marks?
88- Banter.
98- Banter.

Its early, but you started in a hole, scumlean.

Wait, has it really been 50 posts since she jumped in? I can understand the reason behind most of the banter from reading a bit of MJL and RC's game together, but why hasn't there been anything more game-substantive so far? There's definitely been at least a few things worth talking about at this point.
Also, why didn't FF ask anything about that, being the one who pointed it out in the first place?

NutsHanging

MaryJo: This might be inflammatory to some, but I have seen my fair share of newbies roll scum and then flake. Not saying you're scum here, but unfortunately from my experience your slot has a higher starting scum equity.

Its early, but you started in a hole, scumlean.

Except the role PM was never opened. I double checked with the mod before accepting the replacement.

Why did you do that?

Hearthstone

Demi: Ditto to what I said about MaryJo here as well.
47- Intro. Took shots at RC for drunk comment, and mkm about the vote. Then digs in on mkm read, goes so far as formal scum read. No vote though.
64- Starts with the caviot that RVS is still going on, ends with a reads list... Joke tr, null maybe town, null, curious, town lean, null, null, scum. This post is beyond vapid.

Medic: This is pretty spot-on with my feelings here.

77- Responds to RC calling him scum. Also votes mkm who is their biggest scum read. I feel like the blimpys commercial was a big hit for this guy, the brand repetition on mkm!scum is in your face. I don't like how he responded to RC calling him scum either. If I'm town and someone srs me this early in a game I don't give a fuck,

but to ask him to be more concise so he knows what he is arguing against sounds like someone who is afraid to say anything because they don't know where the traps are laid yet.

Medic: Again, this absolutely nails my thought process from yesterday. Underline mine for emphasis.

80- Pokes mkm. I need to get more context for the second part of the post, I just havent gotten there yet in isos.
93- Pokes mkm again, asks for reads.

Not loving this slot and its mkm tunnel. The reaction to RC is suspect to me as well, feels timid. And a reads list on page 3 is try hard. Scummy.

pedit- Maryjo, if thats true, then fair enough, but in a game based on trust don't hold it against me if you don't have that capital with me yet.

Points are good and thoughts read as pretty genuine here, too.

mkm:

11- RVS vote on hearth, decent rvs reason.
28- Asks Red about vote on them. Why ask this in page 2, like what was hoped to be gleaned from her answer? (answered in 38 sorta)

~Medic: I still like the early question from MKM here, and I still don't have any problems with his explanation.

38 Attempted vote correction. Answers GLs question about RCs vote. Doesn't explain why they didnt ask RC about his vote, he asked the person voted what they thought of the vote. I thought the pushiness of someone elses vote was odd as well.
70- Defends vote check. I assume the part of the rules being discussed is untagged votes not counting? IMO I figured the mod would come in and confirm or deny that vote at some point, so for me it was moot. It was RVS anyways, and if it ever came down to it and that vote mattered for a lynch RC would speak up when he needed to. "The rest of my post was waaay scummier" this quote needs more explanation.

~Medic: Yeah, that quote is pretty bad. Elaborated in an earlier post. Explanation for it seemed genuine, but I wouldn't mind hearing more about it either.

71 Fixes quote tags.
78- Welcome banter. Questions RCs vote on Demi. (Mentioned liking posts in 70 i think.
79- Pokes CC. Defends vote check again (I guess for me it comes down to why it mattered so much. Are you OCD and things have to be right? Are you scum and wanted RC to have a vote on Red? You defend the action a lot, but you never explain why it was important to you in the first place that you felt compelled to say something in the thread about it.) Finishes off post by daring CC to vote him. When I was managing and someone told me to go ahead and write them up if I had to as a big bluff, it was always so much fun to call them on it and do just that.

~Medic: This is a good point, too. Again, the explanation for it seemed genuine.

89- Defending post. Talks about being antsy. "When you asked me about the post in the first place I froze up a little, because while it wasn't a question that had zero thought or reasoning behind it... Actions that make less sense the more you pick at them are often scummy." So you think your post was more scummy because the basis for you asking that question was not there and instead of just saying that to start you froze and now your looking scummy? Did I get close?

~Medic: Currently reading this situation differently, but I like FF's thought process here regardless.

92- Questions vote on Demi, while voting Demi... will totes move it if someone else wants to vote there, or if he finds someone better. You can just unvote bro.
99- Responds to Demi with a !!!READS LIST ALERT!!! Null, Null, I expected Demi would be a solid tr for you based on above, so when I saw this "demiGodrick: Your suspicion of me seemed fair. You "hmm"d at Blooper keeping their vote on FormerFish but haven't tried to follow up on that, which is kind of weird, but I get following the read you're most confident in. Blooper's also been relatively inactive." I was surprised because you dont even mention you tr him at all there., Null, Null, Null, Null, Null. Not a single stand was taken on anyone. Even the people he was poking come out smelling like daisies.

~Medic: This bothered me a little at first, especially because I've been giving MKM townpoints for an early question that seemed representative of an inquisitive townie, which a list full of null reads isn't. Revisiting it, though, there's at least some solid points sprinkled in about a few of the players - I don't think it's entirely right to boil that list down to nothing of substance. Also, that reads list

was

requested by another player, so it's not as though it was a post thrown out for the sake of having a post, in which case an entirely null list would bother me a lot more.

100- Qurestions RC.

That reads list was a bunch of fence sitting nothing. Explaining why his post was scummy was nice, like a burglar shining the flashlight on themselves after sneaking out the back door. Could definitely be scum.

Still townreading MKM. Townreading FF pretty significantly at this point, too, though. His thought process seems pretty genuinely emblematic of a townie that feels like he's caught scum, and none of his points seem like they're making too much of a stretch.

17- Intro, RVS on RC for improper conduct. I actually liked this a lot and forgot about it. When I first saw it I figured she was talking about the broken tag, and was poking fun at RC.
19- I took this one as jocular as well.
52- The second part of this post feels like something I actually already wrote. I like to mind meld, it helps my process.
65 Welcome banter.
76- Pushes back on mkm.

I can see town thoughts here.

pedit: @MaryJo, noted. Thank you.

Even reading through this again, I'm still totally null on CC.

RC:
8 Banter
9 Banter
16 broken RVS vote on Red
18 Confused about CCs vote probably.
20 Banter
22 Banter (but honestly it makes sense to me too)
25 Banter
27 Banter
34 Banter
39 Banter
40 mod question
49 Welcome banter
51 Banter
55 Banter
58 Banter
60 Banter
61 Banter
62 Votes Maryjo.
67 Declares scumread. Says nothing.
69 Tells the person he just voted that the person hes sring isnt them. Master work sir.
72 Votes Demi.
84 Banter
86 Banter
90 Naked mkm tr
95 Doubles down on Demi sr
101 RC finds himself incapable of describing why he is sring Demi.
107 Questions me about 1 read in the middle of an iso dive and the question is about a person who I hadnt isoed yet. Slow your roll and let me do my thing.

This plays into my idea of RC town, and Im good with him being town until he isnt. We should be able to figure out things there soon enough.

RC needs to talk more. I don't really think his lack of content so far correlates to a lack of opinions on the game.

Breaking again to get some work done, but I'll still be around for questions.

[ThatOneMedic]

Going to get fully caught up during the commute today. On mobile, so can't play-by-play it very easily, but I'll probably post the rest of my thoughts at some point this afternoon.

[ThatOneMedic]

@redMeow, what do you make of Cowbells' vote on you?

True, but you "in particular" called out the vote thing, which felt a little like trying too hard to add something original onto what'd already been said about me.

Nothing wrong with contributing my own analysis instead of just repeating what's already been said.

The reason I fixated on the vote count so much was because:

Defends vote check again (I guess for me it comes down to why it mattered so much. Are you OCD and things have to be right? Are you scum and wanted RC to have a vote on Red? You defend the action a lot, but you never explain why it was important to you in the first place that you felt compelled to say something in the thread about it.)

There are several explanations here: 1.) you wanted the vote to go through because you're scum, 2.) you wanted to start something to move past the RVS stage, or 3.) you legitimately slipped up as you claimed. Your defense was 2.) and 3.), but slip-ups this early in the game? Not sure if I can jibe with that. From your other posts, they gave off a vibe of just saying whatever comes to mind without really thinking—which you admitted yourself—and like Formerfish pointed out, you were noncommittal and frequently bounce ideas around without really delving deeper into them, like your reads list and your earlier conversation with Demi.

As for why I wouldn't vote—really just comes down to me being afraid to push 'cause of my newbishness, but seems like votes can be pretty volatile. So for now—

VOTE: MKM

@Clearly What do you think MKM, as scum, gains from pushing the vote as in scenario 1.)? What do you think is the underlying motivation and where do you think scum-MKM would go from there?

[ThatOneMedic]

Responding to what is said about me, because that's what I can clear up on:

redMeow:
81- Summary of events thus far for replacements and self. This one was actually interesting. I know you said it was for yourself as well as the people who replaced in, but the game wasn't off of page 3 when you did this. Why not let the people read the 80 posts made and catch themselves up.

It was not my intention to summarize the events so everyone can skip to my summary. I'd say it's kinda my playstyle: summarizing what's going on and then trying to draw conclusions and sharing my thoughts, producing content for everyone.
I expect everyone to read everything, thus it wasn't meant to be a replacement for the actual posts.

redMeow:
You say you almost did the same thing, but you didn't. Could be that you didn't have as much of a drive to see that lynch go through?

To be honest, I did not check the mod's vote count in detail as it was still pretty fresh and early and into RVS. Shame on me...? That's why I missed it in the first place.
I don't think that RC's vote (or not vote) on me mattered much at this stage anyway - the discussion that it caused is still interesting though and makes me think (now) that RC did it intentionally to get a discussion going.

(For reference, I didn't quote the entire post by Formerfish, just cropped out what I thought is important)
What I think is quite interesting and of value from your posts, Formerfish, is that it shows who tries to contribute with posts of substance and where there's banter, as you call it.


My vote is still on GuiltyLion. Meanwhile some discussion has been going on and for now I actually have no reasons to keep my vote on him because he doesn't appear scummy to me, but neither does he appear town to me. Voting Demigodrick after MKM's explanation... ugh, I don't know. I'm not buying it.
RC also "just" saying that he believes MKM is town without any reasoning... ugh. Yeah, nice that you're throwing your gut feelings in here, but why exactly?

For now I also won't be the one to hammer Demigodrick. I don't feel like anyone deserves to be hammered right now. Regarding Rick: I think he got some discussion going and in my book that's a good thing. His intention behind it... Well who knows?

My thoughts right now: MaryJoLisa and RadiantCowbells are contrubiting quantity, but not too much quality. At least the ratio is off for me. I don't like how you two appear to have a connection while MJL explained that you actually don't have one. It feels like we're being left out of the loop - maybe intentionally... ? RadiantCowbells is more quality, but he often doesn't explain his thoughts. I dunno why yet. Maybe he just wants people to talk to he can analyze them and then drop one sentence "xxx is town" or "xxx is scummy". Dunno.

For now: VOTE: MaryJoLisa because despite all the blanter between the two, RC is still somewhat trying to bring this forward, while I don't get these vibes from MJL.
I do notice and that's also getting a positive note in my book that you don't want to hammer Demigodrick (so maybe here I might be actually contradicting myself...). I sense insecurity, as you don't want to be the one to hammer a (potential) townie again (refering to your previous games). Can be interpreted either way: you don't want to look scummy after hanging a potential townie, or you're just legit insecure.
This probably isn't my final vote this phase.

This post feels forced and I can't think of any sort of protown mindset that ends up on an MJL vote at this point in the game with how much else has been going on.
Also, it feels really weird to be appearing to waffle on whether or not to keep your vote on GuiltyLion and then abruptly jump to voting MJL at the end of the post. The mindset here is all over the place.

[ThatOneMedic]

ahem

"redMeow is scummy"

VOTE: Redmeow

Starting to townread Seal just because of how many times we've immediately hit the same conclusion so far.

[ThatOneMedic]

Reads list! Reads list! Read all about it!

FormerFish

: Strongest town read for right now but my read here depends on a few users who need to post some more content.

redMeow

: Town because I see that she wants to get the party and the conversations going. I would think if she’s scum, she’d be content to let things as they are. She’s actively contributing to the hunt, and she’s letting a few thoughts run through her head and I like that I can see her working out the game.

RadiantCowbells

: Town, probably. RC, I hope you won’t mind me saying so, but you play a pretty anti-town game from my POV. I’m trying to learn the basics and you’re waving your hands all over the place to distract me with shiny objects like pockets with chilled bottles of wine in them and drunken declarations of town alignments. I know you’re town. You know you’re town. But if I need to sort things out to solve the game, I’ll have no problem voting out obvtown to do that.

ClearlyClarity

: Town allowance, but I’m watching you.

Miss Kobayashi Maru

: You were leaning a little scummy for me at the beginning, but you’ve made up for it. I never bought into any deeper reads on the vote bracket thing from day 1. You say you’re a new player and I believe you. New players don’t know how things work. You also said that I seem like a nice person which really speaks to my ego, but please be forewarned, I *will* be roasting marshmallows at your lynch if we find out you’re scum.

Demigodrick

: *Got* the pinkie promise vibe. Town allowance for now.

GuiltyLion

: Null

Blooper

: Null. Come on, man. You apparently flaked on your first game too.

Can you explain a bit more about what you meant when you said MKM "made up for it"?

[ThatOneMedic]

RadiantCowbells

: Town, probably. RC, I hope you won’t mind me saying so, but you play a pretty anti-town game from my POV. I’m trying to learn the basics and you’re waving your hands all over the place to distract me with shiny objects like pockets with chilled bottles of wine in them and drunken declarations of town alignments. I know you’re town. You know you’re town. But if I need to sort things out to solve the game, I’ll have no problem voting out obvtown to do that.

Oh thanks, I think you found pretty good words. I have pretty much the same feelings about RC, except that I wouldn't agree with the "I know you're town"-part, because honestly I am not so sure on that. And I too am too fresh to this site to be able to judge the playstyle. It riddles me - I'm sure he has his reasoning behind it. Maybe that's what I dislike, I can't grasp it (yet?).

This seems like a pretty opportunistic way to cast suspicion on RC without trying to be obvious about it. Why was this post made?

[ThatOneMedic]

@redMeow, I've been thinking about it. I'm changing my read on Radiant from Reading-Town-But-Secretly-Suspecting-Scum to just "Town." He's on a fishing expedition and I believe it's authentic.

I do actually believe this, too. That's why I liked your expression of him being town but playing an "anti-town" game so far. That's the vibes that I am getting right now.

For now I will UNVOTE: MJL

Again, what new information prompted this? I feel like Red's perspective is just blowing in the wind here.

[ThatOneMedic]

Clarity's town in my book as of now

Miss Kobayashi Maru: You were leaning a little scummy for me at the beginning,

but you’ve made up for it.

With what exactly? I found it pretty hard to argue with FF's assessment that I've been riding the fence this whole time

You say you’re a new player and I believe you. New players don’t know how things work. You also said that I seem like a nice person which really speaks to my ego, but please be forewarned, I *will* be roasting marshmallows at your lynch if we find out you’re scum.

So if you're in RC's pocket and I'm in your pocket, how big of a pocket is the pocket?

Some trouble with this read since you do come off as a nice person who's still trying to feel out the game yourself, but I have this nagging feeling that you want all us new players to join hands and merrily skip through the rest of the game accomplishing very little. Same thing happened in one of the only other games I played, and Town got demolished.

GuiltyLion

: Null

Is there anything else you can say about this?

VOTE: MaryJoLisa

Reading MKM as ultra-town again.


Demi has basically two points of shining-towniness within 165-166 that reside within the scummiest block of posts in the game so far and I'm so conflicted that I'm just going to go back and stare at them with a microscope later on.

For now: VOTE: MaryJoLisa because despite all the blanter between the two, RC is still somewhat trying to bring this forward, while I don't get these vibes from MJL.

Right, but:

@redMeow, I've been thinking about it. I'm changing my read on Radiant from Reading-Town-But-Secretly-Suspecting-Scum to just "Town." He's on a fishing expedition and I believe it's authentic.

I do actually believe this, too. That's why I liked your expression of him being town but playing an "anti-town" game so far. That's the vibes that I am getting right now.

For now I will UNVOTE: MJL

What does your unvote have to do with your read on MJL? It doesn't. It's all about MJL's thoughts on RC, not about your thoughts on MJL. I had you as town before, but this seems almost like a poke at MJL that you could refer to later if you really were SvS as RC mentioned. Hmm. More thinking needed on this one.

Why does MJLs thoughts on RC change your "vibe" or opinion on MJL? Have they said something you can reference in the posts between you voting and unvoting them?

I wasn't sure if I should vote MJL in the first place (and I actually said that it might not be my final vote, I'm just really insecure with this, as all of you probably are).
I liked how she had similar thoughts about RC as I do, that's what I believe is a good thing.
What threw me off and what I disliked is the way that RC and MJL have been interacting. I realized this just now. They've been creating a lot of text but not much content.
I'm really unsure about RC and quite excited to see what he's got for us today.
While all the discussion is good and I appreciate it, there's still some players not contributing as they should.

This is probably the first really consistent thing that Red's posted. When I first quoted it, I thought it was townier than I do looking back at it now, but it's there.

With Demi at L-1 right now, I still haven't heard substantiated explanations from three of the four (Kobayashi, GuiltyLion, Cowbells) about why they're voting for him. Formerfish's analysis vibes with me pretty well, but not enough to fully convince me. I'm sus of the way Demi tunnels on Kobayashi instead of trying to defend himself, but then again I've been guilty of doing the same. Hoping my posts will remedy that.

I'll think on it but I have my FoS on Demi.

if you have your FoS on Demi, why do you also want explanations from three people voting him? I would assume that we are likely town seeing the same things you're seeing. If you're

not

seeing reasons to be suspicious ("not enough to convince me"), then why are you FoSing Demi regardless instead of the people making a questionable vote/push?

This is one of my favorite points made in the entire game so far and Lion's entire block of four posts here is even more ultra-town than MKM.


p-edit: I played a ton of EM (which is kind of a different beast altogether) and exactly one forum game elsewhere around 7-8 years ago. I'm only a college student to begin with, and you can imagine how much thought super-young me actually put into his games to begin with, so I don't feel like they count for much.
Like I said, though, I've lurked this site for 4-ish years and I've read enough games that I don't think I'm completely clueless as to what I should be looking for.

[ThatOneMedic]

It was a joke.

I'm terrible at reading GL so I decided to call him scum because I townread him

Why are you seeing redMeow and I as a scum team? What's the logic here?

This team actually made a lot of sense to me too while I was reading pages 6-7. It's not my #1 suspect, though.

p-edit: Godrick was definitely my biggest scumread from pages 1-6. After 7-8, I had a bit of a nagging thought that he might just be a heavily misguided townie, but I think I'd still sooner believe that that isn't the case.

[ThatOneMedic]

Starting to townread Clearly now. (the rain is gone)

Appreciate RVS is still maybe ongoing, thought I might share some thoughts from what people have said.

Cowbells has pinkie promised he is town, and we all know pinkie promises are law, so town.
Formerfish - some gentle poking, null read maybe town so far.
MJL - null
Blooper - says they're happy with a random vote on formerfish? No explanation for this? Hmm.

redmeow - not sure, could be town leaning, seem genuine questioning but a push for things to speed up. nerves maybe? Will hedge bets on town so far.

ClearlyClarity, so far null, need some more content
GuiltyLion - some genuine questions, so far null
MKM - currently my scummiest read as per my previous post.

You commented on everyone but redmeow o.9

what
if that's a mistake I feel like it's town

[ThatOneMedic]

I think I'm cute c=

seal
please be in all of my games

[ThatOneMedic]

Alright, fully caught up.

FF joins the ultra-town trifecta.

I feel like there's basically four people total who can reasonably be scum at this point. At least without more information.
But mostly everyone needs to talk a lot more.
Seal's still waiting on reads for everyone else, so I'd specifically like to hear from godrick, if he's around.

[ThatOneMedic]

Alright, fully caught up.

FF joins the ultra-town trifecta.

Why? You mention me in like 1 catch up post and then you focus on a lot of other things. Then this post where I'm conscripted into a trifecta. Is that with you and RC?

You nailed my thought process exactly in a few of your isos on the other players in a way that I don't think scum could pull off. Even for the points I didn't agree with, your train of thought was easy to follow and didn't seem forced. That's where most of it comes from.

I wrote that particular line in response to a specific post of yours that basically just topped off my existing town read. Pretty sure it was 248.
That "trifecta" was a reference to when I also called both MKM and GuiltyLion "ultra-town" earlier.

[ThatOneMedic]

ok so like

this is probably going to seem like a random collection of quotes and comments. and it

kind of

is. dunno. most of my scum read on RedMeow is tonal and I'm focusing on trying to get that across to yall.
There's some harder evidence regarding like progressions and stuff but fundamentally it's that they use scum indicative phrasings. and that's not a bad reason to lynch people. it's why i lynched screamingnoodle for example.

without further ado

I just want to leave the following thought here...
How do you know that town is his current allignment?

Of course I know you might just be assuming... but that statement caught my attention, maybe because it's so flat out.

2 things.

1) the structure of

[x] [comment] with completely unnecessary, overinflated

s and [comment]s is very common in newbie scum.


i believe that if they were town this would simply read "How do you know that town is his current alignment"?
2) the question is in and of itself bunk. it goes nowhere. if she thinks he he actually knows that I'm town (which would be very level 0 thinking) I don't think this is how she approaches it. she'd be more aggro.

With two people in this game who just got subbed in while I was typing this, I'm looking forward to more content to analyze and more discussions soon.

very minor but her description of the game as 'content to analyze' and 'more discussions' as opposed to 'looking for scum' or something similar is +rand scum indicative.

Alright so to be honest, I think the initial "mod poke" wasn't too bad. I expected it to be counted as well - shame on me, I just missed that the mod didn't count it, else I might have "poked" the mod as well about it.
It's just interesting what resulted from it. When being confronted, I think MKM made up weird excuses.

What was the intention behind the "failed" vote though? Was there any intention at all? Is it of any value at this stage of the game?
In my opinion: not really atm.

RadiantCowbells and MaryJoLisa apparently know each other from previous game(s) and did a "pinkie promise" lol. What is it worth, though? Is there anything we can conclude so far?
I don't like how they might or might not stick together "behind the scenes". Maybe a valuable early game alliance - let's just hope in that case that they both actually are townies.
My thought though on it: it's just their way of saying hi to each other, without it actually having a deeper meaning.

again these
"in my opinion:" blocks are extremely extremely scum indicative. this is a

major

tell, the way she phrases things as questions then answers them. it's faked. she's trying to spell out the questions that she's answering to look towny, not answering the question. also the overuse of to be honest and similar phrasings. like I'm not sure how to explain why because I'm not even sure my explanation of why it's scummy is accurate but over 6 years that tell has been extremely effective for me.

~Medic: I agree that a lot of the way Red's been elaborating her points has felt pretty forced. I thought about the tonality at first, but the thing that's kind of thrown me off is the fact that it hasn't tapered off at any point. We're beyond introductions here, and it seems like new scum players would naturally break out of that sort of cautious explanatory style as the game went further. The fact that Red's pretty much been using it constantly made me wonder whether it was just how she tended towards speaking. Most of my problem with Red is that her perspective is really hard to follow post-to-post.

My vote is still on GuiltyLion. Meanwhile some discussion has been going on and for now I actually have no reasons to keep my vote on him because he doesn't appear scummy to me, but neither does he appear town to me. Voting Demigodrick after MKM's explanation... ugh, I don't know. I'm not buying it.
RC also "just" saying that he believes MKM is town without any reasoning... ugh. Yeah, nice that you're throwing your gut feelings in here, but why exactly?

and this? absurdly fake. the whole ellipses thing and trying to show a protracted line of thought in a single post is a major scumtell. town think things through then post. scum are trying to present a thought process and so present it over a post as opposed to presenting snapshots of things.

~Medic: The post in question here is definitely my least favorite of all of Red's posts so far. It honestly feels like it was written by two different people, and I don't think you get from one end of the post to the other with a natural thought process.

[ThatOneMedic]

Okay so like I said earlier, Red and MJL was one of the scumpairs I've had in mind, but it's not #1, mostly because this has been bothering me all game.

Quickly summarizing what happened since our two substitutes got in... (mainly actually for myself, but feel free to follow, comment and complete my thoughts).

Alright so to be honest, I think the initial "mod poke" wasn't too bad. I expected it to be counted as well - shame on me, I just missed that the mod didn't count it, else I might have "poked" the mod as well about it.
It's just interesting what resulted from it. When being confronted, I think MKM made up weird excuses.

What was the intention behind the "failed" vote though? Was there any intention at all? Is it of any value at this stage of the game?
In my opinion: not really atm.

RadiantCowbells and MaryJoLisa apparently know each other from previous game(s) and did a "pinkie promise" lol. What is it worth, though? Is there anything we can conclude so far?
I don't like how they might or might not stick together "behind the scenes". Maybe a valuable early game alliance - let's just hope in that case that they both actually are townies.
My thought though on it: it's just their way of saying hi to each other, without it actually having a deeper meaning.

I kinda like how Demigodrick just hopped into this and already came up with his reads on people. Although I would say it's a little to early for that.
Quickly answering what you said about me: yes, maybe I was a little too pushy here - but just curious how this works. I know there's still over a week for this day phase, so there's no real need to rush anything, this wasn't my intention.

I have no idea what leads red to specifically single out Demi from everyone that's posted at this point, and the way it's followed up with "I would say it's a little too early for that" almost reads like advice.
Like "hey, posting reads at a point this early in the game seems kind of strange" while still trying to make him look good.

I've thought of other ways of explaining the interactions between MJL and Red, but I still can't get past this. I think there's a few other examples of strange interactions between these two, as well.

p-edit: The fact that she's from Germany is specifically what I was considering as well when I thought "manner of speaking". I have issues with more than just her tonality, though.

[ThatOneMedic]

Also, looking back at page 4-ish, I believe the first time Red says anything against MKM is after Demi posts this.

so you gonna vote me or what?

Love a move like that

MKM, can I ask you to respond to my point regarding your non committal comments, specifically:

The vote stood out to me because it seemed ambiguous as to whether it was a RVS vote or a more genuine one. Gun to my head, I'd assume it's closer to the former.

Sounds like you are setting yourself up for something you can go back on later. I feel this is the source on my scum read so far.

I see CC's point in relation to MKM pushing for the vote, but I'm not sure if that's the important but here. RC`s whole thing so far is weird for someone so experienced, but I'll see what they say to me first before we go down that route

Appreciate RVS is still maybe ongoing, thought I might share some thoughts from what people have said.

Cowbells has pinkie promised he is town, and we all know pinkie promises are law, so town.
Formerfish - some gentle poking, null read maybe town so far.
MJL - null
Blooper - says they're happy with a random vote on formerfish? No explanation for this? Hmm.

redmeow - not sure, could be town leaning, seem genuine questioning but a push for things to speed up. nerves maybe? Will hedge bets on town so far.

ClearlyClarity, so far null, need some more content
GuiltyLion - some genuine questions, so far null
MKM - currently my scummiest read as per my previous post.

This comes off as a scumbuddy read, too.

I know it's probably not a great idea to spend so much time looking for associations before there's any flips, but soooo many of my problems this game have been with these two players specifically.

[ThatOneMedic]

Can we talk about godrick's 163-166 as well? I don't feel like that's gotten enough attention.

[ThatOneMedic]

I can see the possible Clearly-godrick team now, but I don't think it's the most likely scenario right now.

The biggest problem for me right now is that I feel like godrick is the individually-scummiest player on this list right now, but given that my first- and second- most likely scumpairings are Red-Godrick and Red-MJL, it's making me wonder whether going for Red is just overall a safer option.

What makes you think Red + godrick doesn't work?

p-edit: oh I guess you think it does
When you said you weren't happy with the associatives, did you mean you had a problem with the associatives themselves this early on or that you thought the associatives made them look suspicious?
It was a little ambiguous, thought it was the former at first

[ThatOneMedic]

To be honest the only people that I'm realistically seeing as being scum at this point (again, at least without flips) are godrick/red/MJL/clearly (in that order, pretty much) so I'm just trying to figure out what the best option for today is.

I'm townreading all of Lion/MKM/FF pretty hard and the indecision between the pairings/thoughts on Red in general on your part right now feel too genuine.

[ThatOneMedic]

I'm still slightly townreading Clearly but the distinction is that I can realistically see her being scum.

If Seal is actually pulling this off that well and has just been betraying me this whole time then my heart is going to shatter probably
I don't think that's the case though

I swear I'm going to go look at godrick's 163-166 again but I'm also kind of writing a research paper right now so it might be tomorrow or around 11 if I can manage that.

p-edit: going to wait a sec here so I don't steal the mod's spot

[ThatOneMedic]

Today I remembered that mods can edit posts and that 301 apparently isn't the top of the page in the first place.

[ThatOneMedic]

Worth noting that I feel generally good about all 3 players on the Godrick wagon right now and significant less good about the players in a few other places, so I feel like this is probably a good vote.
Not going to L-1 until I get a chance to look at 163-166 aqain, though.

[ThatOneMedic]

I like to be safer than most, so I would like to declare

intent to L-1

.

You know, I think I understand why MJL is confused about how this goes now.

[ThatOneMedic]

I'd like to take a look at godrick's 163-166 first, which unfortunately IRL dictates I can't really do in-depth tonight. :/

I can

intent-to-hammer-after-a-thorough-review-of-the-evidence-at-hand-turns-up-nothing-unexpected

, though.

[ThatOneMedic]

Is godrick even around right now? It seems like half the players in this game just sort of come and go with the tide.
Uh but yeah
they should definitely do that

[ThatOneMedic]

The fact that every single person here seems to be willing to vote for godrick is a little bit disconcerting.
But I can't tell if that's just because his potential scumbuddy is one of the people who hasn't talked in a while or if they've just given up.

is the constant nagging feeling that literally everything you suspect about the game is completely backwards a standard experience here
because I feel good about this but at the same time what if I know nothing and it's just lion and ff somehow
and also the mod
i'm paraconfinoident

[ThatOneMedic]

I had more to type
then I figured out that I am very, very tired

I'll probably be able to check in for the first time tomorrow at around noon-ish.

[ThatOneMedic]

In that case, do you want to keep this at L-1?

If it is somehow red and not godrick, she could pretty easily just jump in here and hammer this.

p-edit:
pretty much
It's been a fun 3 hours.

[ThatOneMedic]

Looking back on it, godrick seems to have the same type of forced, overly-cautious posting style that Red was demonstrating as well, particularly in the earlier stages.

A couple of these in particular.

I think you are scum!!! talk to me about this?

Oh no!!1!

Want to expand a little on why? So I have something to talk to you about...

Also, as I am not voting yet, VOTE: MKM as my scummiest read

so you gonna vote me or what?

Love a move like that

MKM, can I ask you to respond to my point regarding your non committal comments, specifically:

The vote stood out to me because it seemed ambiguous as to whether it was a RVS vote or a more genuine one. Gun to my head, I'd assume it's closer to the former.

Sounds like you are setting yourself up for something you can go back on later. I feel this is the source on my scum read so far.

I see CC's point in relation to MKM pushing for the vote, but I'm not sure if that's the important but here. RC`s whole thing so far is weird for someone so experienced, but I'll see what they say to me first before we go down that route

Sorry, I've been away for a bit and haven't had time to post, looks like some stuff has happened. Firstly, let me answer what I can about what was said about me.

Hearthstone

Demi: Ditto to what I said about MaryJo here as well.

Not loving this slot and its mkm tunnel. The reaction to RC is suspect to me as well, feels timid. And a reads list on page 3 is try hard. Scummy.

I will touch on try harding in the next bit. For now, lets look at the MKM tunnel.

83 Votes mkm. I can dig it.
91 Not sure i like how quickly you back off mkm when he openly stated he got nervous about what to say because when you start to unravel things that dont make sense they look like scum. He's right. Thats the whole point of this game is to unravel the string of lynches in our favor. I also can't be mad at you for jumping onto Demi, I just wonder why when they seem fine to link themselves together almost. Are you not suspicious of mkm anymore?

Townlean.

So, you question GuiltyLion for backing off MKM quickly, and give a small overview of what you would expect him to be doing, i.e unravelling the string, and yet when

I

do this,

I

am scummy? This seems a contradiction in what you are saying, and I am accused as scummy while GuiltyLion is town for backing off and switching his vote? Hmm. I don't like this at all.

High scum equity based off personal replacement stats, among other things, and I want to see something.

I literally have no idea what you mean by this above sentence. You put me at L-1 here for personal stats and "other things"? Just seems scummy now.

Moving on from FF, to Guilty Lion, who also accused me of being a try hard.

@MKM - word, I vibe

MKM wrote a lot of words, but said nothing. You use this opportunity to change your vote, presumably to follow RC's vote as you add no context other than:

anybody want to explain why they're voting for this guy?

he's trying a little too hard in a way that I can imagine being fake

Alright, i get it, im a try hard. I subbed in to a game where it was moving very slowly (not to mention RC confusing us newbies, its a very unqiue play style) and posted some very early reads because i wanted to get some discussion going. Town can't win if everyone sits silent and just waits, otherwise it will be D2 and nobody is any the wiser. If try harding is scum, then i have a real problem with this post from you:

@Newbies - be as pushy as you want to be. There's no harm in early pressure or driving discussion on things you feel are worth discussing.

Telling newbies to push for info, then calling me, who pushes for more info from MKM as scummy for doing this? Err. Not at all happy with this either.

I was pushed to L1 very very quickly, so I do genuinely believe there was scum on that push for an early mislynch. I get pressuring me, but nobody gave me chance to claim etc before the game has moved on, so I don't know what to make of that.

Only that I believe one of FormerFish or GuiltyLion is scum. I'm just not sure which yet. I don't believe its both. Yet.

Which moves me on nicely to MJL.

THIS POST

Cool. I don't know if my vote count is correct, but what would happen if I were to type Demigodrick followed by a correctly closed vote bracket right now?

Still learning.

when in relation to these posts:

Right, I forgot about that step. But intent to lynch only needs to be a few minutes long from my experience.

RadiantCowbells did that in our last game, but he assured me that he was *sure* of his vote so it was okay.

Take a quick peek at my two past games and make a decision about whether you want *me* wielding the hammer vote.

You obviously know how voting/hammering works, this just seems like you were testing the waters to push a mislynch. I don't like this at all either, neither

did

I like your interactions with RC up until later in the game. If I had come back at this point I would have called scum, however your later posts do seem a bit more town. Your read list though lists everyone as town/null. I'm not sure if that is any help.

For now, VOTE: GuiltyLion. One of you or FF is scum. I am picking you for now.

Care to explain why you tell newbies to push for info, then call me pushing for info fake and scummy?

Ps - apologies to all if I am try harding. At least I am trying.

pps - if I have missed something someone else has posted, please let me know, I am more than happy to be transparent with everyone.

Aaaand it seems like I can't tell here either whether or not that's just an issue of the way he tends to post, because he's stuck with it all game. Bleh.

[ThatOneMedic]

Back. Things happened.

Still conflicted on Red. I have more issues with her posts than just her tonality.

Feeling worse about MJL after 344. When I reread it, it sounds like the point you're making is that "RC hasn't found all the scum yet, so therefore he's more likely scum", and that feels like a real stretch of logic.
Moreover, regarding the point about his lack of contribution of meaningful content based on his experience: why was this only posted just now, after he's already become a lot more active? You've kept mostly to yourself throughout most of this game, and it seems like this post could have been made a lot earlier in the day. Posting it here makes it feel like you're taking advantage of his reversing his reads for the sake of making a case.
This whole post feels opportunistic.

@MJL, what would you say you've been paying the most attention to this game? I really want to hear more of your thoughts.


On that same note, RC's sudden flip seems ultra-town. I can't find any sort of scum motivation where it makes sense. We've been pushing Red and Godrick for most of the day now. If he was buddies with one of the two, he could have just flipped his case to the other one pretty easily, and if he's not, there's no reason for him to want to turn this around right at the end of the day. The only thing I can think of is that this might be some sort of ultra-next-level "look how town I was that one day" kind of approach, and even then, I don't think making a big scene at the end of the day would be better for him than just sitting back in that scenario.


@Demigodrick Sorry for the walls of text. Had a lot to reread.
I've been pretty focused in on both you and Red for most of the day. Your early posts stuck out for me, and since then I've had a hard time following the underlying thought process behind either of your posts.
I don't think I said that "even if you posted something town, I could see it being scum POV". I believe I said that there was a block of four posts you made a while back that I didn't like overall but had a couple of points that came off as super townie, so it threw my read off.

GL's lack of content is a good point, but the posts he did make were good ones, and a lot of them pointed out a few things that I think would have gotten completely lost otherwise (the post you quoted from GL about clearly actually being my favorite example). There were at least 2-3 points where I was first reading the game where I read a post, made a point about it, and then GL came in and made that point a few posts later, so I feel pretty good about him. I did make that read while I was initially reading through, though, and he hadn't vanished off the face of the earth by then. I also have no idea what Seal's up to.

I'm interested in hearing about where your scumread on FF came from; I don't recall ever seeing a big point of it when I was reading through.
You say your top scumreads right now are FF and GL, but all of your points are addressed to other people. Why don't you have any questions for those two?

If you want me to believe that you're town, where do you think I should look?

[ThatOneMedic]

oh ok

wait he wasn't even around though

how do I know you didn't just give up on the claim then

[ThatOneMedic]

Went and read some of MJL's past games and at least her passive style seems to be pretty consistent.

But yeah. This game needs to speed up. There's been a lack of any sort of contention so far and I'm not sure whether or not that's a result of who's currently being voted
or just the fact that half of the player list hasn't been consistently talking.

Going to pose some questions to the general group.
I want everyone here to answer these in your next post
no exceptions
I don't mean to discourage people from posting with a homework assignment but people need to come out of the woodwork with some real opinions
SO


1. What have you been paying the most attention to this game?
2. Why should I believe that you're town?
3. What's the scummiest thing that your top townread has done?
4. What's the towniest thing that your top scumread has done?
5. What have you noticed so far this game that nobody else has mentioned?
6. How do you feel about your play overall this game?

Also this is a bit of a nitpick but I'd prefer if someone other than RC answered these first.

[ThatOneMedic]

I want everyone to answer those in your next post

singling it out because it was kind of missable

[ThatOneMedic]

alright then
I believe it would be immensely helpful if everyone could make an effort to answer those questions in their next post
but obviously I can't directly control that

[ThatOneMedic]

Thanks. Sorry if the initial post came across as pushy.
People are kind of drifting in and out, so I wanted to make sure everyone who stops by at least tries to address it while they're here.

[ThatOneMedic]

thanks GL for answering as well
gonna be honest i didn't think it would be as big a deal given that it's a mafia game and I assumed people wouldn't be too averse to typing
my bad if being that demanding was out of line
on the bright side the game advanced 2 pages so that's nice


uh
I was going to intent with the caveat that I'd like to wait for DGR's thoughts one more time
but I reread twice and I believe clearly miscounted

let's lynch redmeow

I think it's the best lynch in the gamestate.

VOTE: redmeow

guess one other thing about DGR is him calling me out for 9 posts when he only had 10 posts may be kinda town indicative

because he's not really angling to get townread there but rather to push back against TOM's reads first and foremost

VOTE: redMeow
but I may go back to DGR at any time for the record

VOTE: Red

Maybe I should have read up more on the game. As a first time experience I'm finding it frustratingly hard to contribute anything of value here. Or read anyone. Posting too little is scummy, posting too much is town, posting too much is

also

scum... it's really hard to keep track of everything.

Hopefully it'll get easier as the game goes on, so I'll throw redMeow to the wolves. I'm sorry.

VOTE: redMeow,

L-2

I think red is town because of newbishness, but I want to get this show on the road and I favor a lynch, any lynch.

VOTE: redMeow If the vote count is correct, that's L-1.

if I didn't miss any unvotes I'm pretty sure that's hammer

[ThatOneMedic]

although honestly I probably suspect clearly for that more than MJL

if anyone's still around I'm pretty sure this is my last chance to talk this game so let's chat a while

I'm still kind of split between red or godrick honestly but I feel like Red's flip probably gives more info overall

so in any case my preferred target going forward should be evident

but imo this flip is pretty important so I'm not sure on that

[ThatOneMedic]

wait clearly fish said flat-out "only 3 votes" before you posted

how did you miss that exactly

I'm concerned at the way the second half of this vote unfolded

[ThatOneMedic]

MJL said the vote-count indicated L-1
there hasn't been an official VC since people started voting for Red
so I can only assume you're talking about clearly's?

p-edit
this makes sense
but if red and godrick are both town
i'd feel pretty bad at this game

[ThatOneMedic]

perhaps you should go see a veterinarian

p-edit: damn it seal this joke doesn't work if you put

5

6

7 extra posts in between while I'm typing this
p-edit 2: i give up

i probably wouldn't go too far into second-guessing yourself until the flip at least
but I appreciate getting the information out


i'm pretty sure you're town at this point though
but i need to see this flip to work out literally anything else about this game

[ThatOneMedic]

the thing I'm thinking about is if MJL/Clearly were buddies then I feel like godrick would have gone down more quickly earlier
but i'm not sure

[ThatOneMedic]

also I'm just going to point out that we've been calling this person "godrick" for the majority of the day
but his name is "demigodrick"
like "demi-god rick"
two words
so saying "godrick" as one word is the weirdest possible way to address that name
it's like calling me "tone medic"
sure it works
but still

[ThatOneMedic]

let's lynch redmeow

I think it's the best lynch in the gamestate.

VOTE: redmeow

guess one other thing about DGR is him calling me out for 9 posts when he only had 10 posts may be kinda town indicative

because he's not really angling to get townread there but rather to push back against TOM's reads first and foremost

VOTE: redMeow
but I may go back to DGR at any time for the record

VOTE: Red

Maybe I should have read up more on the game. As a first time experience I'm finding it frustratingly hard to contribute anything of value here. Or read anyone. Posting too little is scummy, posting too much is town, posting too much is

also

scum... it's really hard to keep track of everything.

Hopefully it'll get easier as the game goes on, so I'll throw redMeow to the wolves. I'm sorry.

VOTE: redMeow,

L-2

I think red is town because of newbishness, but I want to get this show on the road and I favor a lynch, any lynch.

VOTE: redMeow If the vote count is correct, that's L-1.

I checked a few times and I don't see any unvotes

[ThatOneMedic]

but here's the current VC based on all new votes since the last official one

redMeow (5) RC, GL, FF, Clearly, MJL
MJL(1) MKM
RC (1) redMeow
GL (1) Demigodrick
Not voting (1) tone medic

9 alive, 5 to lynch

[ThatOneMedic]

also the fact that mjl blamed the votecount instead of cc's "HEY THIS IS L-2"

I had assumed that CC's "L-2" was what she meant when she said "vote count"
The previous official vote count was before Red had any votes to begin with, iirc, so I don't see how it could be misleading in that regard

p-edit
I suppose it depends one whether or not you count "demigod' as one or two words
it's less weird if you're seeing it as "demi god rick" as opposed to "demigod rick"

p-edit 2
phases on EM were 10 min/2 min or half that depending on game settings
I do feel like this game has been moving slowly even for this site's standards though

p-edit 3
Can you elaborate on "fake hammer games" and how it relates to this scenario?

p-edit 4
this twilight is moving faster than the day phase

[ThatOneMedic]

I mean I'm not upset with the outcome given that I probably would have hammered today anyway
I just want to figure out where the VC discrepancy came from primarily

[ThatOneMedic]

I told you guys never to put the hammer in my hand. I told you! RC you know that!

And now you're backing down?

I'm not going to get to upset about this until I see a flip, but I would suggest checking your ego. You're going to get eaten alive playing like this.

I thought he was pulling those fake hammer games to get people to fess up to stuff.

No, this is 100% on me.

Probably would have been better off not posting while on v/la.

to be fair for someone on V/LA Mary has probably been more active recently than about half the playerlist

[ThatOneMedic]

I think the L-2 thing was most likely an accident, but I made an extremely similar post the first time I played scum and had to commit to a lynch. Many bad vibes

Why are you speaking towards this before the people involved talk about it? What are you using to base you opinion of it being an accident? If you did the same thing as newbie scum why are you handwaving this away?

I'm scumreading Clarity pretty solidly based on the content of the post but believe her posting L-2 at L-1 could be a mistake. If only because in her shoes I wouldn't have the guts to gamble on that actually tripping somebody up

I'm not sure newscum Clarity would intentionally set up a trap like that unless she legitimately knew someone would act on it
Even if it gets results it's pretty incriminating regardless and the linearity of the votes doesn't conceal it very well
If I were awake 30 minutes earlier I would have called it out and fixed it anyhow and what happens from there, just seems like it doesn't pay off well enough to be worth the risk without MJL in on it as well
I don't know if I'm seeing Clearly as scum without MJL, at least based on this, and there's not too much other content from Clearly unfortunately

p-edit
Thanks for clearing that up!

[ThatOneMedic]

Regardless of your alignment, it's okay MJL. <3

Thank you, RC. <3

you guys are all pretty great imo

[ThatOneMedic]

from now on I think i'm just replacing into every game that has seal in it

[ThatOneMedic]

if seal's scum
i think this is my last game

[ThatOneMedic]

hello red
come join the twilight party
and maybe claim if you want
it's inconsequential at this point

[ThatOneMedic]

that's quitter talk
i'll have you know my doctorate is in seal interrogation

[ThatOneMedic]

It was me that was from EM originally. That was a long time ago, though.

also yeah
fmpov if fish isn't lying this is lock

gonna jump in here and say that Seal was the kill target last night
so if demi visited seal that's GG

[ThatOneMedic]

uh
I think I got left behind unless I'm missing something obvious
if fish isn't lying then Demi's 100% mafia
Seal was the kill target last night
that should line up with your report

[ThatOneMedic]

I just realized while typing this that me knowing who the kill target was doesn't clear me
because demi knows it obviously
but it's auto regardless

ok crystal clarity
yes I'm the doctor
and I protected seal from the kill last night
if demi visited anyone
it's seal
and it's his only visit because he's a goon

[ThatOneMedic]

VOTE: demigodrickVOTE:

clearly I've missed something
there's only three people in this game that can visit right now, right?
if Fish is a PR then demi's scum
one sec going to reread everything that was just posted

[ThatOneMedic]

take two
not retracting
VOTE: demigodrick

[ThatOneMedic]

Ok, I was apparently reading the entire p-edit worth of posts backwards. It makes more sense now.

But yeah, as I said previously, I protected Seal.

I completely forgot that scum could willingly no-kill. I guess I ruled it out.

p-edit:
TBH RC I was pretty convinced that I was dead last night actually
oh dang that soft is way less obvious than mine

[ThatOneMedic]

also lol at Medic actually being a doc, name checks out

yeah I thought this was pretty fantastic too

[ThatOneMedic]

feel kind of proud for having my eye on them so early
also feel kind of bad for tunneling it the whole game though
I'd imagine one's first scum game is at least a little terrifying

and by that I mean I'm pretty terrified of rolling scum

p-edit: yeah, would love to see everyone here in a game again

p-edit 2:
seal
you're delightful

[ThatOneMedic]

Tracker/doctor vs goons is brutal on scum when there's a d1 scum lynch. Most of these setups are tbh, except maybe when you have a roleblocker who makes perfect night actions and you bus the goon or something.

RC's name came up beside the Queue thread around the same time that day flipped
and I was so worried that I got roleblocked
that NK spoiler was so suspenseful

[ThatOneMedic]

I kind of feel bad for demi now
just coming into this thread later like
"OK"
"TIME TO TURN THIS GAME AROUND"

[ThatOneMedic]

also I'm still Blooper in the page 1 living players list
is that why I didn't get nightkilled
the ultimate camouflage

[ThatOneMedic]

Yeah, everyone in this game was pretty great.
As much as I'd like to /in with you again, I probably have to actually do the responsible thing and wait for the semester to end. I spent more time than I imagined just thinking about this game.

Also, the thought of rolling scum is still terrifying.

I'll probably be back again at some point soonish, especially if everyone here is still around.

[ThatOneMedic]

@CC you know you're pretty delightful too imo

[ThatOneMedic]

OH RIGHT I FORGOT TO ASK

I am extreme sure that GL is scum right now based on a world famous tell invented by none other than the moderator of this game.

but I am

super

curious about what this tell was

[ThatOneMedic]

Also, I don't think the miscount ended up being that disruptive, really. I was probably going to L-1/hammer at that point when I logged in, anyhow.

[ThatOneMedic]

agreed
I'd pick to just reroll with this same group of people if I could honestly
everyone here is pretty pleasant

[ThatOneMedic]

I just realized I never grumbled about this officially
but before this game gets lost to the sands of time
I feel like i have to say

the post that looks like a very blatant and terrible crumb/softclaim near the end of twilight
was not in fact intended to be a terrible softclaim
but was in fact a joke about my username
at least originally

unfortunately
by the power of circumstance
it retroactively became a terrible softclaim
which I noticed about 5 minutes after I posted it
so I'm glad I didn't get shot for it
because that would have been pretty fun


If I ever actually crumbed a PR, I'd at least split it across multiple posts.
AND ALSO NOT CRUMB DOCTOR 5 MINUTES BEFORE THE END OF TWILIGHT
i'm not actually that careless I promise

Still busy with university nonsense, but I'll try to queue into a game with one of you when the semester ends. Maybe earlier if things aren't too bad.

[ThatOneMedic]

One more for the road, I suppose!

I only have the bare minimum of an understanding of what a hydra is (and maybe someone who's had a bit more experience with it can throw me a more detailed explanation) but it seems interesting enough that I'd probably jump on the chance if anyone from this game is ever interested in something like that.