Newbie 1927 | Stuff I Found Online Xi | Over

[Exilon]

I'm surprised we didn't open with a picture of the black hole.
VOTE: Voted

[Exilon]

Vote: wilky

Not quite sure how to place a vote tag, but for now, I’m bolding.

Code: Select all

[vote]playername[/vote]

[Exilon]

also what are your mafia experience and why is green the firsr colour to come to mind？

I played a few games here way back in 2010, then kept playing offline with friends.
Green is not a creative color

[Exilon]

why

[Exilon]

Also, you weren't even voting for Pvt, so like, wat?

[Exilon]

> Says Voted is acting like scum acts
> Acknowledges it's not a scumread
> Votes for the guy anyway

your post doesn't actually justify your vote
pls enlighten

Spoiler: Offtopic

I currently love the mod for doing the thing with the hole.

[Exilon]

why

Because he is behaving like overrelaxed mafia. Or as a troll.

either way you're not voting for him, why is that?

[Exilon]

Same reason as you.

[Exilon]

I'll show you mine if you show me yours

[Exilon]

I suspect you of being scum, Exilon. Do you know why?

pls enlighten me


And also why aren't you voting for scum

[Exilon]

If you think one is troll and the other is scum there's obviously only one possibility in your eyes

stop deflecting

[Exilon]

If you think one is troll and the other is scum there's obviously only one possibility in your eyes

stop deflecting

I dont understand this post.

Let me put it like this

First, you say Gimm is either mafia or troll. But you're not voting because

you're not sure yet.

Then, you accuse me of being scum. You offer to explain why.

You don't explain why.

Additionally, you don't vote. I question you on that.

You don't answer the question.

Instead, you act as if you also think that Gimm is scum, when your posts say otherwise.

[Exilon]

Well then saying "fillering without committing is kinda scummy, and his other actions are also not helping and so I want pressure on him" would have done the trick

oh wait that's my reasoning

[Exilon]

Nevermind, I was thinking that Exilon is a scum who is not reading forum properly and thinks that the guy who claimed janitor was sameone else then me. So much for easy scum detection.

Well I mean you've proven it is actually easy by being easy to detect so

[Exilon]

why

Because he is behaving like overrelaxed mafia. Or as a troll.

I was actually talking about myself in 3rd person. I though it was more or less obvious.

It really wasn't. Thanks for clearing it up.

You asked me for reads so I will post you samething. Nevertheless, its really soon to do same judgements and I am likely to change my mind. Only two people posted samething relevant to game.

Gimm1ck - pushing me, but reasoning makes sense. Not scummy.

Exilon - defensive and offensive. Either town trying to scum hunt or scum trying to lynch town. Further investigation necessary.
I guess the same read goes on me too and we are going to pressure each other for a long time. Do you wish to start with it or let me have servis, Exilon?

Your read of me amounts to "I got nothing".

Your read of Gimm1ck seems to imply you believe he's town because his reasoning is valid. Is my understanding correct?

---

Oh this started way early. Well hello I guess. It's good that you've started to but heads already,

I'll probably stay out of it.

Please don't. ^_______^

[Exilon]

Actually sorry I'm not done

Well if you want my thoughts I think it's good to put people under pressure, but only on moderation as you don't wanna linger on one or two and forget about the rest.

> Recognizes that it's good to put people under pressure
> Does not put anyone under pressure

Man, I love dissonance

UNVOTE: Voted
VOTE: Froce

I also love irony

[Exilon]

Alas guess I been caught in the vote roulette. You're really not out to make friends here huh? Calling out everyone you can immediately. That sounds like a good maf plan if I say so.

You know what's a good maf plan? Avoiding the spotlight and letting others scumhunt for you.

[Exilon]

[...]

And I will ask again, do you have any comments/pointers on the Me/Voted/Exilon conversation? [...]

Didn't he answer that in 58? Do you want him to elaborate?

Well if you want my thoughts I think it's good to put people under pressure, but only on moderation as you don't wanna linger on one or two and forget about the rest. I don't really expect your ambush on Voted to last but if it does that's where we may have a problem.

I agree it looks as if Voted contradicted himself regarding the true meaning of some of his posts and was pointed out by Exilon so that's something to take note of

.

[Exilon]

Spoiler: Post 69, for reference

And I will ask again, do you have any comments/pointers on the Me/Voted/Exilon conversation? Rather than saying useless filler like ‘You’re really not out to make friends here’, could you possibly contribute something to the discussion please?

Whoa chill lol. I was only trying to mess with Ex.

I also don't know how to elaborate on what I've already said. I saw Voted making posts with vague meaning then retracting it and that's about it. I find it kinda odd you're so demanding of me as if I'm the one who started the allegations when I only said what I said in courtesy of responding to you wanting my thoughts. So it's like you were so taken aback by what I said you just couldn't wrap your head around it. I don't know what you thought I meant but I can tell you it's nothing major yet so don't get rustled.

and I'd say I'm pretty involved, seeing as I'm posting about every other post on here. I'm also trying to move the conversation forward. Nitpicking single lines out of multiple paragraphs could be your own way of scumhunting but I don't like it and don't find it very effective.

I find funny how Froce is saying he's trying to do this or that and not actually doing it

Like saying he's trying to move the conversation forward without moving the conversation forward

Also ignoring valid and relevant points in favor of devaluing Grimm's request for elaboration when he could have simply answered the question.

So let's put your money where you say your mouth is; what do you think of Not_Mafia's vote? Is it scummy, is it not, why?

[Exilon]

All not_mafia done so far is "silent-voting". However the fact he voted Exilon (who nobody else was voting before) is interesting and makes me think he actually read the game and fos Exilon.

This is completely meaningless and produces nothing of value for town. It's throwing out guesses instead of analyzing his actions.
What does "interesting" even mean?
Do you find their actions scummy? Are they not?

Also ignoring valid and relevant points in favor of devaluing Grimm's request for elaboration when he could have simply answered the question.

Really isn't the case. I just found it weird how Gimmick handled my response and he made me think he misunderstood what I was saying. I kinda already answered in the sense that I don't really have anything else to add, not to mention Gimmick seemed unnecessarily aggressive in what sounded like an accusation against me, so I felt the priority to defend myself. If he hadn't worded it like that then I might've complied and looked further into Voted and questioned them.

It's definitely the case that you completely ignored my viewtopic.php?p=10876798#p10876798 66 and your actions so far have been consistent with it.

[Exilon]

oh and also

If he hadn't worded it like that then I might've complied and looked further into Voted and questioned them.

It's not his fault you don't want to scumhunt

[Exilon]

Hi baezu sorry you missed rvs. As consolation pls feel at liberty to place one random vote. Then please proceed to vote according to what makes the most sense to you.

Also if i could get your opinion on the following topics, that'd be great:
1) banana
2) the voted/exi/grimm relationship
3) froce and his behaviour in general
4) the moomn bandwagon.

Can't wait to hear from you.

(will post more later when im at pc)
Kisses

[Exilon]

2 votes are bandwagon?

Oh, how silly of me, thank you for reminding me

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Moomn

VOTE: Moomn caught scam

Nope.

Try slighty more sophisticated way of defending yourself. Post reads, push sameone.

I don't feel the need to do so at the moment. My read included detail I don't wish to put into the conversation so i'll be waiting to do so. My vote on you is fully real though.

You don't feel the need to help town? ok.

---

I had more to write but it boils down to this:

Y'all need to stop silent voting and start explaining the reasoning behind your votes so we can all actually scumhunt and you know, win

[Exilon]

see, that's fair

But what do you think of everyone else
Say I'm scum

who else could be scum with me, and why

[Exilon]

@voted:

My general understanding of it is this: https://fanlore.org/wiki/!

so it's like: trait!person
What he means (I think) is that there's a specific tell newbie scum does during RVS that he didn't see

[Exilon]

Lynch Exilon, he's artificially trying to insert himself into the town leader position

It's cute of you to assume that

1) There's a town leader position to be filled;
2) that it could be artificially filled;
3) that me trying to position myself there is inherently scummy.

That's a big chain of assumptions to make - therefore very weak reasoning. Either come up with a better one or explain those three assumptions away.

Granted I'm putting myself in the spotlight but that's because I'm an attention-seeking whore.

---

About Wilky

Teh readlist;

{Gimmie, Voted, Exi} Town
{N_M, Froce, Moomn, Baezu} Null
{Wilky} Scam

N_M's a slot to be mech-cleared. Not scum based on interactions through other players, not D1 priority.

Froce's alright so far

Moomn's alright so far

Baezu still MIA

VOTE: Wilky D1 lynch

I generally like this post even though I don't personally agree on some fronts (e.g. Froce and Moomn).
For example, what is Wilky guilty of that Froce or Moomn aren't?

[Exilon]

For example, what is Wilky guilty of that Froce or Moomn aren't?

Not posting so little, maybe?

That's a good point, actually. Is that, in itself and in this case, inherently scummy?

Because it seems like Pvturist voted on him based on seeing something he found scummy (hence him saying D1 Lynch). If he's advocating for a lurker lynch, that's a different matter. Therefore, I would like it if he could answer my question.

---

also just so be clear I have 0 interest in being a leader and I have 100% interest in finding scum. I don't care if by pursuing that interest it looks like I'm trying to be a leader. If it finds us scum, that's all I care about

(so you should all do as I say and find scum, GO!)

[Exilon]

I really disagree with this bandwagon on Wilky.

Just to tack on Wilky's analysis RE: froce (which isn't super far from mine):
My thing with Froce is that while I'm leaning scum for the reasons I've stated in my previous posts (not voting, talking a lot and not acting in accordance to what he proclaims, etc.), I have some doubts an experienced scum would so blatantly stay out of the discussion, without savagely trying to defend doing so.

Oh. I think I just answered my own question.

[Exilon]

Can you explain why Moomn is scum in your eyes? Thanks

For reference, I think there's scummier players than Moomn atm (e.g. Froce).
inb4 "why arent you voting for someone else" because pressure.

[Exilon]

I was referencing a small meme among my own mafia friend group. It was from a game in which there was no role claiming of any kind at all. It was to be fun and a bit obtuse, further supported by my stating I intended to follow it up with some nonsense non contribution in my first post on the site.

This is filler, plain and simple.
Please contribute.

In total agreement.

[Exilon]

I am still dissatisfied with the relationship between Voted and Exilon. It felt quite forced at the beginning and despite their splitting of opinion later they don't seem to be looking at eachother. Feels like a lot of talk. This follows with how people are debating Exilon wanting to be town leader or not. He is most definitely seeking that role as I see it, but claims to not want the position which comes across as worried and defensive. Voted Froce and Wilky all respond to this a bit. Baezu puts some odd energy into the room but idk that it is exactly telling of anything.

I think Froce is the safest lynch of the people surrounding the Exilon divide at this time.

UNVOTE: Voted
VOTE: Froce

(also it has been years since I played with an entirely new roster of people, knowing nothing about anyone is wild!)

It is wild! Mega fun.

He is most definitely seeking that role as I see it, but claims to not want the position which comes across as worried and defensive.

I don't think that's what I claimed. try again

so to focus on productive things
In your post 94, you said "my read included detail I don't wish to put into the conversation so i'll be waiting to do so. My vote on you is fully real though".

I believe you if you tell me this "detail" is what you talked about in your most recent post.
But is Voted not scummy anymore?

Also, is what you mentioned (the great Exilon divide) the only reason why Froce is the safest lynch?

[Exilon]

I was referencing a small meme among my own mafia friend group. It was from a game in which there was no role claiming of any kind at all. It was to be fun and a bit obtuse, further supported by my stating I intended to follow it up with some nonsense non contribution in my first post on the site.

This is filler, plain and simple.
Please contribute.

In total agreement.

Must have not noticed the exact question I answered. lol. It was a "Filler" answer about a post that was entirely filler itself. Studding I know! Respond to my other post maybe.

Oh I did I just thought it was more filler and still completely unusable.

Also. What is site meta for a d1 lynch? I am super pro lynch as a standard, even if it were myself.

[Exilon]

Ah crap it's inside the quote

[Exilon]

Before this gets lost

Before elaborating who in this thread already knew about the RVS tell prior to this game?

I have absolutely no clue.

[Exilon]

I was never happy with either of you, but was actually more unhappy with you, which is why Voted received my vote as I did not want to build anything against you myself at that time.

???????????????????????????????????

[Exilon]

What are everyone ‘s thoughts on NM?

N_M's reading townish to me.

---

Sorry to spam with 3 posts, but im here.

Spam at will, Moomn. It's easier to quote that way.

I think his comments are all sort of shooting fish in a barrel, I don't think he has put many of his own thoughts into the game, yet he has made quite a few posts with a lot of words. Lots more filler and shallow contribution than it looks.

How is my contribution any more shallow/less profound than other people? Note that I've been seldom asking questions in my posts, unlike Exilon or Gimmick who like to interrogate. It seems like you're saying I'm hiding behind a veil of long posts that are in fact of little substance. I don't know about that. (...)

You are on L2 and was on L1 not too long ago by the way.

That's funny, cause I think you're both guilty of that same shallowness. A little less now because like it or not, you did react to the pressure and added more meaningful reasoning, and at least you're using your vote.
Which segues nicely into...

I was never happy with either of you, but was actually more unhappy with you, which is why Voted received my vote as I did not want to build anything against you myself at that time.

???????????????????????????????????

Assuming by happy / unhappy you mean not scum / scum;

You thought I was scummier than Voted
But you went for Voted because it was hard to build a case for me
But when you voted you didn't actually present *any* case anyway
Which means you could have done the same anyway and just vote for me - but you didn't
And even then, if I were scummier, and supposedly you had more evidence for me, it should be easier to build a case for me, not harder

Like, there's too many contradictions here for me to get anything from it, so I assume I'm grossly misunderstanding something
Unless you're scum and then I'm misunderstanding nothing.

[Exilon]

omg I wrote things inside quotes again
I am so sorry

Consider the tag removed. -Lycanfire

[Exilon]

I did actually. More than once. I even told you about it and called you out on it.
I even stated reasons in the same post you're quoting.
Weren't you the guy that said you didn't find selectiviness ineffective scumhunting?
Good lord


Btw 184 has another scum tell that i loved

[Exilon]

Sorry I'm away on vacation and my hotspot isn't working on my laptop so mobile it is.
I won't be able to quote people easily so pardon me

[Exilon]

I had some stuff written but it got poofed.

Froce didn't start out as scum read to me but it gradually became that with his posts. I'm sorry that i can't go at length and point out stuff specifically but a read over my iso will paint a clear enough picture of my thoughts on the matter.

I am not too convinced moomn is scum. His tone, actions, and words feel townie to me, as misguided as they sometimes seem to be.

And while he generally hasn't been helping town with his answers, i think the same can be said of other players who are lurking.

As such, i don't currently feel confortable with a moomn lynch. If necessary, I'll revote near deadline.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: froce

I'd like to point out in the last few posts, this guy tried to rolefish moomn. Also, and mote importantly, he just misinterpreted moomn comment about being okay with being lynched.

Moomn said he didn't mind being lynched IF that helped town get meaningful info.

[Exilon]

Ok no wait he didn't actually say it explicitly, it was just my interpretation of what he said.
I need to do a better re read.
It isn't enough to change my vote however

[Exilon]

Dear Voted,

I've publicly expressed my reads on a handful of people, so you're wrong on that.

Someone asked me why n_m was reading town and i forgot to answer, i think it was you. The reason is, ifhe were scum, at the time of his first vote, it would be easier to target someone else already being voted for. Then i called out his reasoning, then he changed his vote. I think that's townish.


You say im trying to make town lynch certain players but i didn't? What're you referring to? You also say im not makinf them defend themselves or post more which is weird considering that's exactly what they do when i questioned them abd pushed them. So i also find that wrong.

Then you said i was kind of contradicting myself but i don't see that in what you pointed out.

Also you pointed out my past games but not only is your insight wrong, considering a) i wad scum in just one game and rememver posting less on purpose, and b) I'm actually more relentless and in your face as town and c) all those games happened *over 9 years ago *.

Look it's one thing to analyse people and giving out your opinion, it's another to get things wrong and misrepresent them.

[Exilon]

Are you actually using real time as a measure to dismiss my read on nm??

[Exilon]

Me trying to quote while on phone thisll be fun

Someone asked me why n_m was reading town and i forgot to answer, i think it was you. The reason is, ifhe were scum, at the time of his first vote, it would be easier to target someone else already being voted for. Then i called out his reasoning, then he changed his vote. I think that's townish.

Hold on, lol. So what I'm getting is, you now agree with me when I said the following:

All not_mafia done so far is "silent-voting". However the fact he voted Exilon (who nobody else was voting before) is interesting and makes me think he actually read the game and fos Exilon.

Even though,

your initial response couldn't be more different

This is completely meaningless and produces nothing of value for town. It's throwing out guesses instead of analyzing his actions.
What does "interesting" even mean?
Do you find their actions scummy? Are they not?

Then i called out his reasoning, then he changed his vote. I think that's townish.

No, you called him out 5 hours after he posted his reason, and it took him exactly 1 day and 5 hours to change his vote, to wilky, who was being bandwagoned. I think we can fully ignore your reads now.

No i didn't agree wirh you then and i still don't agree cause the 'following' that you said isn't anything at all, as per my following post, which you quoted. Calling something 'interesting' doesn't mean anything, period. I don't know if you thought he was scummy or not then and that post alone doesn't give anything productive for town. As I've stated.

To agrer with your 'analysis' i would have had to assume nm was voting for me because he found me scummy, which i didn't assume then, and it's got nothing to fo with why i thought his actions were townish, as I've also stated in the quoted post. No contradictions here.

Even later when nm posted his reasoning he doesn't specificslly say im scummy, just that im artifically ttying to get into town leader position, so how could i ever agree with you on that front? Maybe he does think it's scummy (which granted, is a fair assumption to br making), but unless he spells it out, I'm making assumptions, which is dangerous.

You're making connections that don't exist.

[Exilon]

On the moomn topic, i think your analysis is okay. A recap is a recap but at the very least you're making an alignment analysis.

I don't agree with some conclusions. I think what he does could likely come from a townie. This may change upon further study but right now, i stand by it.

It seems from the post your final conclusion is that his actions are more likely to be from a scum mindset. Is this correct?

[Exilon]

The first part of your post is unclear and I'm having a hard time connecting it with my previous post.

It seems the reasons why i think you're scummy aren't totally clear and you would like to explore that further.

I'll try to address that right now to thr best of my ability.
First, ill destroy the notion that there's any double standard between you, moomn, and n_m. Here's why your levels of contribution differ in quality:
They're using their votes and they're committing.

Next, i will try to summarize why i think you're scummy. These are general points.
A) coaching people with intent to look helpful
B) not comitting to a read and / or reads; refusing to vote;
C) at times suspicious wording;
D) selective paraphrasing;
E) hyperbolizing own activity and contribution


About the 2nd part:
Dude i asked a yes or no question. You answered with a complex wall of text. Anyway, From what i understand, your answer is a yes and you also understand my perspective in how i can him as townie.

I don't disagree he is a bad lynch.

[Exilon]

I mean i agree he is a good lynch candidate for d1
Sorry

[Exilon]

In regards to force's comments on my reasons for him:
I don't think going further with it is productive atm. I can't provide specific examples with as much detail as I'd like. I read your answers and i kept them in mind, and we can revisit some specific examples if necessary later. Suffice to say my mind hasn't changed on my read.

Regarding the most recent baezu post:
What kind of question is that? Why aren't *you* voting for him?

[Exilon]

I think what's happening is I'm not being scumread, I'm being tunneled by someone who I spent all day appealing to, and he refuses to nudge, even while conceding to a lot of what I point out (even if he denies and says it's too complex for him to read). And I'm being voted by someone who hasn't made the required effort and that I suspect doesn't believe what he says, in which case he's most likely mafia.

Don't be obtuse. I didn't say i didn't read it, i said it was complex for what essentially amounted to a yes or no answer. I don't know what you hope to achieve by throwing these misrepresentations and underhandedness and is just one example of what i meant when i said you were selective paraphrasing and discrediting people.

[Exilon]

There's certain things i cant not address. Misrepresentation is one of them.
On that note, it is not him writing a lot that i find scunmy. My general reasons on that have been outlined earlier.

I won't be able to post much or in depth up until deadline, but my stances haven't changed. Based on the most recent posts, i am ok with a moomn or nm lynch, if those are the options.
I don't exactly see how skygazer could be scum? Wilky read as town to me. I may have to read more carefully.

[Exilon]

Why would town care this much about being voted while not even being in danger of being lynched

[Exilon]

It's ok i can hammer just before deadline if need be

[Exilon]

With 2 hours left on the clock, now is as a good time as any.
VOTE: moomn

[Exilon]

I agree with NM being possibly scum; I have thoughts on more people of the wagon but I need to hold off on them for now.

Outside Moomn's wagon I still feel Froce is the likeliest to be scum, his whole demeanor day 1 in regards to Moomn was fencesitting a bit and even when he claimed to be scumreading moomn he seemed hesitant on it, as if trying to preempt a possible town flip.

Specifically this,

From what i understand, your answer is a yes and you also understand my perspective in how i can him as townie.

I don't think it's fair to think Moomn is townie at this point, unless you're, again, grasping at straws about how he could be town (that's what it seems like you're doing with both of them). In contrast, someone that might be fair to see townie, though I don't, is PvtUrist. At least he made some posts, and has some interesting opinions.

However, as I mentioned in my previous post, I don't have overwhelming evidence that Moomn is either alignment. It's just not possible for me at this stage. You can keep seeing him as townie, and he can get lynched, and flip town, and you would be right. Then we'll go into more depth on why he was town, and why another player could've been a better lynch.

Gives me fence sitting vibes. In the same post Froce says that a townread on Moomn is grasping at straws and claims he doesn't have overwhelming evidence of Moomn being either. One excludes the other.

In the end of the day, he voted for N_M which is relevant to me in case one of them flips scum. At that point, he had one vote.

[Exilon]

@plotinus what's that votecount

Forgot to put the votes in --P

[Exilon]

@N_M who are your scumreads atm

[Exilon]

I didn't know hypo was a thing until today. I don't think it's useful at this point. I think it's PR fishing atm.
Hard figuring out if that's null or scummy.

Say Gimm, asides from wanting to Hypo, who do you think is scummy and would like to pressure currently?

[Exilon]

I mean besides N_M

[Exilon]

I have a stronger scumlean atm
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Gimm1ck

[Exilon]

I didn't know hypo was a thing until today. I don't think it's useful at this point. I think it's PR fishing atm.
Hard figuring out if that's null or scummy.

Say Gimm, asides from wanting to Hypo, who do you think is scummy and would like to pressure currently?

Will tackle these in two independent posts; my reads when I have more time, but I will shoutout a fact that I want a NM lynch to test one thing.
You claimed multiple times that you could ‘hammer Moomn whenever you needed to’ - you hammered when a NM wagon was being built up. It seems logical that if NM is scum, you are a very potential partner for hammering Moomn out of fear of NM being CWed.
The reason I point out multiple times is that a scum would want to lay out a trail of their thoughts as to not be questioned on your decision: you went ahaid and did that. TLDR; If NM is scum Exilon is major FOS.

About hypoing, I don’t see the problem if everyone says ‘if doc, docced x; if Jailkeeper, jailkept y; if cop, z is town’; to me it only gives us information in case of a town PR death, without outing PRs.

I had bell alarms for you and this sent everything to overdrive. You're scum.

[Exilon]

I don't know if that's the right quote or not but I that's not what OMGUS is

[Exilon]

I had this feeling you were pretending to fabricate some of your reasoning day 1, and making an effort to appear townie in most of your logic. I didn't want to say anything because I wanted to see if the feeling was going to hold up or not and how Moomn flipped.
Now you PR-fish instead of building a case which town!you I believe was wont to do, and you preempt an N_M lynch by using logic that is at best tenuous and at worst a flat-out lie, because your scum partner couldn't get it going.

[Exilon]

I mean not only because your scum partner couldn't get it going but I'm pretty sure you both see him as a safe lynch D2.

[Exilon]

I had this feeling you were pretending to fabricate some of your reasoning day 1, and making an effort to appear townie in most of your logic. I didn't want to say anything because I wanted to see if the feeling was going to hold up or not and how Moomn flipped.
Now you PR-fish instead of building a case which town!you I believe was wont to do, and you preempt an N_M lynch by using logic that is at best tenuous and at worst a flat-out lie, because your scum partner couldn't get it going.

Explain how floating around the suggestion of a hypo which a. Never happened, b. I wanted to ask everyone’s opinion of it instead of going ahead and hypoing, is PR-fishing.

By ‘preempting’ a NM lynch, all I want is pressure on them so I can formulate a read. Furthermore, if NM is my so-called ‘lynchbait’, why didn’t I lynch them yesterday? I could have easily shifted onto NM if I wanted an easy lynch.

1. Asking for everyone about hypo is fine, insisting on it happening even though people have said no and not letting go is wasting time for town and it's an attempt at PR-fishing. This however I concede is likely to be NAI (non-alignment indicative).
2. He wasn't lynchbait yesterday (even though some tried), he is lynchbait today. Also, you could have shifted to NM, but why would you when Moomn was right there? Look, pointless arguments!

I mean not only because your scum partner couldn't get it going but I'm pretty sure you both see him as a safe lynch D2.

Very scummy for these reasons;
1. You assume I’m scum and working with a scum partner; if a townsperson were to say this, instead of going all up in arms with claiming ‘he’s scum! He’s scum!’, a townsperson would give an example and read of who my partner actually is, rather than simply claiming ‘oh, he has a partner!’.
2. If I theoretically had a scum partner, we both see him as a safe lynch: no, because I have said and currently say I do not have a strong read on NM yet. I have a scumlean. I want pressure on them. Simple.

Would like to point out the growing bond between NM and Exilon as possible scum partners; he whipped out the classic chainsaw defense.

1. I don't have to at this point, I think it's pretty clear who's the scum partner that I'm reading, even if it's independent and on another wagon. And no they wouldn't, that's a null tell at best (see: N_M's playstyle).

2. The point I made is redundant and hypothetical, obviously, so I don't even know why you as town would feel the need to address it. You as scum, however, I totally get.
2.5. Moreover, the response to the point has nothing to do with the point itself, it's strawmanning it. Instead of saying "actually, if I were scum I wouldn't see him as a safe lynch at all" or "if i were scum I would be going for someone else", which I feel would be very townie to do, you reject the hypothetical from the get go, and that I find to be a scumtell.

3. This is the exact narrative I'm accusing you of building. You clearly understand that most of us think N_M is town and you clearly understand that this is N_M's playstyle. You know he is not going to budge. Yet, you justify a vote by the quote below. In order to make the wagon and lynch appear more credible, you conjure up some extremely weak reasoning - I mentioned this briefly in the other post, let met expand on it:

What I will initially say is

MAJOR fos

on NM for
1. Lurking yesterday
2. Being put on a lynch block w/other people
3. Immediately lynching another person without reasoning

To clarify, he immediately lynched another person

on that list

without giving reasoning, something lazy scum would do over picking a few people to push, fabricate reasoning, and start counterwagon attempts on them

by lynching I'm assuming you mean voting; moving along;
MAJOR FOS doesn't seem like what you mentioned more recently here, which is a lot milder.
It was in addition to this:

I didn't know hypo was a thing until today. I don't think it's useful at this point. I think it's PR fishing atm.
Hard figuring out if that's null or scummy.

Say Gimm, asides from wanting to Hypo, who do you think is scummy and would like to pressure currently?

Will tackle these in two independent posts; my reads when I have more time, but I will shoutout a fact that I want a NM lynch to test one thing.
You claimed multiple times that you could ‘hammer Moomn whenever you needed to’ - you hammered when a NM wagon was being built up. It seems logical that if NM is scum, you are a very potential partner for hammering Moomn out of fear of NM being CWed.
The reason I point out multiple times is that a scum would want to lay out a trail of their thoughts as to not be questioned on your decision: you went ahaid and did that. TLDR; If NM is scum Exilon is major FOS.

About hypoing, I don’t see the problem if everyone says ‘if doc, docced x; if Jailkeeper, jailkept y; if cop, z is town’; to me it only gives us information in case of a town PR death, without outing PRs.

I don't know what game have you been playing but at 2 hours left on the clock (which I noted), which is when I hammered Moomn, N_M's wagon still had only 3 votes and the risk of we getting a no lynch was extremely high, so for you to say that I hammered when a wagon was building up is disingenous at best and outright misleading at worst, and it comes up here very conveniently in order to push for a N_M lynch that you don't find that scum apparently despite the "MAJOR FOS" on him.

The worst part here is, you're FoS'ing people that you don't have as a strong scumread? It's the beginning of day 2 and you're already invoking flips as justification for a lynch?

You know what would help me, if you could post your actual reads as you said you would and we can go from there.

[Exilon]

@gimm:
The rest I will concede without too big of an issue if it comes to it, what really raises the alarms for me is what I pointed out at the end of that post, so if you have to prioritize what to address, please begin with that

[Exilon]

Hey Froce, what are you up to, voting Skygazer?
Do you have more to comment on Gimm besides post 344?

[Exilon]

@baezu could you provide some context on why you found certain things scummy?
Cause reading what you posted I have no idea.

Like, just overall what you think is most relevant

[Exilon]

Skygazer, while I don't disagree with you... wouldn't scum by nature be more easily caught being incosistent, due to the fact that, you know, their reads are mostly fake?

[Exilon]

@baezu: I am so sorry for your loss, I can't imagine what it is like :/

On regards to your posts specifically or another players posts specifically or in general which posts I find scummy?

Just generally, if you had to point your strongest scumreads from what you posted, what stands out the most, and why?

[Exilon]

@Gimm: I am slightly satisfied with your answer. Taking into account the most recent developments and revelations, I'm sure you've changed some of your views on things. What're your scumreads atm besides NM?

[Exilon]

Gimm answer me

[Exilon]

This day was terrible on reads, on interactions, everything.

Part of it was spent on Gimm trying to sell the idea of hypoing and going after NM even though we know that's his playstyle from day1. I really dislike that. And the fact that only I voted him strikes me as very odd.

Skygazer / Wilky came across as town to me, their reads seem genuine, even though at times they're not as verbose as I would like.

gimm why the hell won't you vote for Froce if you prefer a lynch on him???????
That IS SO SCUMMY

Anyway
VOTE: Froce

[Exilon]

To reiterate, Gimm is scum

[Exilon]

Gimm then holds the following true:
Lynch w/o claim < no lynch < lynch with claim ?

[Exilon]

*sigh*

I'll take some time during the weekend to look at things a bit more properly.
For now VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Exilon]

NVM
UNVOTE:

wtf

[Exilon]

why do you think I unvoted

[Exilon]

Anyway to be honest at this point I wouldn't even care if town lost by lynching Not_mafia and him flipping, but he has voted for no one except town the entire game.

[Exilon]

I blame myself for voting Froce and not wagoning Not_Mafia Day 2.
Lesson learned.

[Exilon]

Cause yesterday I thought Froce was scum

[Exilon]

I both scumread Froce over NM and NM went for him

[Exilon]

You were pushing for his lynch yesterday, did that change iun the meantime?

[Exilon]

yes.

[Exilon]

No, when did I say that??
Froce was town, I'm town, N_M has done nothing helpful but vote for town and wagon on townies, both day1 and day2.

[Exilon]

What a load of bull, nm. If you had been trying to lynch me if you thought o was scum why would you ever unvote me day 1 for moomn instead of pressuring and why wouldn't you even mention it day 2.
You wagoned froce day 2, a player that i had been going for hard day 1? I don't buy it in the slightest

[Exilon]

my problem with NM being scum is why would he try to setup/endgame with an exilon mislynch

His first vote on mr is exactly why i tr him, because why would you go for me when there's easier targets.
But he ended up doing exactly that and as for today, who else would he point to that wouldn't look super suspicious, especially after i accused him?

That's my thought process and it makes sense to me. Feel free to provide alternatives.

[Exilon]

Oh you mean nightkill?
I'd say killing pr takes precedence and they knew there was a doc somewhere

[Exilon]

From my understanding Skygazer is saying that there would be easier targets to go for a mislynch.
My counter point is that he doesn't have anyone else / he didn't actually consider setting me / anyone up.

[Exilon]

And what do you think, baezu? What do you make of the game so far?

[Exilon]

And what do you think, baezu? What do you make of the game so far?

[Exilon]

What do you mean by cross

[Exilon]

Also tell me why they're scummy pls

[Exilon]

I mena I presented reasoning and he answer with 'lol', that's as cross as you're going to get I feel

[Exilon]

So instead of lol you replied with silence

[Exilon]

Exilon, your whole 480 about your NM read. You claimed that one day he was lynchbait, implying he was town. Immediately the next day, he is your main SR, as you go ahead and lynch him. You answered why he was scum, which are all good and valid reasons; you did not answer my question, which was when and why did your read of him change. And, by due process, do you sr me over him, or him over me?

I thought I did. It changed when Froce flipped town.

And then PvT also flipped town, and I'm alive, and so I'm thinking I probably need to rethink the way I've been approaching this, because I'm the most active player in this game and yet I'm alive, which means scum isn't scared of me enough. If they were scared of Voted or PvT, I'm believing part of the reason has to do with their reads more than "they're probably PR". So I'm willing to trust you off of that. Also I doubt you and NM could ever be scum together, and therefore, NM is the most likely to be scum currently.

I hope that answered your question.

Skygazer, your analysis, pls

[Exilon]

In my perspective, going for the not obvious is what led us to this point. So.

[Exilon]

I think town has every reason to be paranoid right now

[Exilon]

So basically all four of us would lynch NM today, is what I'm gathering.

[Exilon]

That’s a pretty good indication I’m town

I don't see you pointing to any potential scum team

[Exilon]

If you are scum, which I suspect you are, at least one other person is bussing.

At least??

[Exilon]

Gimmick and Skygazer

why

[Exilon]

Meanwhile it would be great if we could start thinking of potential scum mates.

[Exilon]

I am thinking about it and I did a few skimthroughs and ISO reading in order to get something.

My starting point readlist is as follows:

Gimm Town
NM scum

either Skygazer or Baezu scum

Now let's grab our trusty VCs:

D1 VC:

Official Vote Count 1.11

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Moomn

(5): Skygazer, Not_Mafia, Voted, Gimm1ck, Exilon

<-- LYNCH

Not_Mafia

(3): Baezu, Froce, PvtUrist

Froce

(1): Moomn

Not Voting

(0):

None.

Mod notes: A lynch!

D2 VC:

Official Vote Count 2.06

With 7 votes in play, it takes 4 to lynch.

Froce

(4): Skygazer, Not_Mafia, Exilon, PvtUrist

<-- LYNCH

Skygazer

(1): Froce

Not_Mafia

(1): Gimm1ck

Not Voting

(1): Baezu

Mod notes: A lynch!

Day1 Wilky pushed for townies - Froce and Moomn, joining Voted on the wagon, and had some interactions with NM, which looking at it now, are a bit superficial. I notice they both were pinged by newb!scum tells, which... well.
Skygazer comes in and doesn't change Wilky's vote, which I find interesting and suspicious. Back then the reason was compromise lynch but scum!skygazer has a lot to gain from shifting attention from NM and defending him based on meta. Also in hindsight skygazer doesn't actually produce a read on NM and just shoves sorting NM into a future occasion... which is fine but it's now day 3 and no attempt has been made on Skygazer's part to do so. (even assuming Town!NM here this is an easy and reliable setup for a mislynch later on.)

I'm absolutely willing to believe there were 2 scum on the Moomn wagon especially when the other wagon was NM; this makes it more likely that NM is scum along with someone on the Moomn wagon and the only possibility would be Skygazer.

Day 2 a wagon starts to form on NM with Gimm and Baezu both voting for him and then conveniently Skygazer does not address the NM case and instead votes Froce, beginning a counterwagon that Not_Mafia follows later on the day after being prodded. Baezu then puts Froce at L-1, but removes the vote after realizing what it is (and btw this pings me as townie). Quick note post 352 is pvturist posting an interesting readlist and I think he was on to something there, where had Skygazer as scumleaning.

Near the end of the day, there's some discussion about skygazer being possibly scum and wagon maybe forming on her but it doesn't go anywhere, because I decide to put Froce at L-1 to force a claim. And then that disaster happened.

Baezu pinged me as town a few times. One ex. I pointed above; another is 455;
another example, and especially considering the game we're playing, is 377, where she pins Skygazer/NM as potential scum. Her reads haven't been perfect, but they've been pretty ok, which in my eyes is townie.

There's a few other things I felt or noticed that further tilt the scales on skygazer being scum over baezu.

My conclusion is as thus:
The most likely scumteams are:
Skygazer / NM - 70%
Skygazer / Baezu - 20%

What this means is that my only fear atm is that NM is in fact a mislynch - and if he is, it would have been setup by a potential scumteam of Skygazer / x.

I'd like to ask you guys, in the spirit of being as thorough as possible. What's your opinion of this?

[Exilon]

I am thinking about it and I did a few skimthroughs and ISO reading in order to get something.

My starting point readlist is as follows:

Gimm Town
NM scum

hold up!! what changed between now and 421??

Day 3 happened! I've been over this (check 489, but I'll try to expand it.
First off, I wanna trust PvT read. Additionally, Gimm's answers Day 2 did satisfy me somewhat even though I had that breakout. In hindsight I overreacted a bit.

But the main reason is that NM and Gimm are definitely not scum together. A VC analysis puts NM in a terrible spot. He's only ever voted for townies, he wagoned on townies, etc. Therefore, if NM is scum, then it follows that Gimm is town.


Offtopic note: omg I cannot believe quoting a post was as easy as [ post ]. I've been copy pasting URLs for the longest time now. Thanks Sky.

[Exilon]

Skygazer comes in and doesn't change Wilky's vote, which I find interesting and suspicious. Back then the reason was compromise lynch but scum!skygazer has a lot to gain from shifting attention from NM and defending him based on meta. Also in hindsight skygazer doesn't actually produce a read on NM and just shoves sorting NM into a future occasion... which is fine but it's now day 3 and no attempt has been made on Skygazer's part to do so. (even assuming Town!NM here this is an easy and reliable setup for a mislynch later on.)

Yes, I didn't change wilky's vote. Moomn was the largest wagon and we had less than two days til deadline. I'm not sure how that's interesting or suspicious. If you go and read literally any NM game this aligns with his town meta and scum meta. I'm not going to let a player who could very easily be town get lynched when I had readon to SR moomn (as I mentioned, their read on NM was tmi, there should be no reason to actually have a TR on NM there). I mentioned that NM needed to be sorted on process of elimination. I have myself as town, gim/ex as likely town, leaving baezu and NM as likely scum. That's how I've arrived at my NM read today. Up until both PRs died, I also had a PR read on NM which is why I didn't want to see him voted off D1. He's playing almost exactly like he was in a game I modded off-site where he got lol-lynched as an

innocent child

(!!!) who hadn't outed yet. Now that both PRs are dead, NM's play here makes less sense to me and I don't need to white-knight him to save what I thought was a power-role.

I'm absolutely willing to believe there were 2 scum on the Moomn wagon especially when the other wagon was NM; this makes it more likely that NM is scum along with someone on the Moomn wagon and the only possibility would be Skygazer.

scum very much don't like voting together. if you meta dive me you'll see I especially don't like voting with scum and would gladly D1 bus if i needed to. regardless, i think it's poor play to arrive at that gamestate conclusion and say that i must be the only option just because you arbitrarily cleared gimm earlier for no apparent reason after having gimm as scum D2.

Day 2 a wagon starts to form on NM with Gimm and Baezu both voting for him and then conveniently Skygazer does not address the NM case and instead votes Froce, beginning a counterwagon that Not_Mafia follows later on the day after being prodded. Baezu then puts Froce at L-1, but removes the vote after realizing what it is (and btw this pings me as townie). Quick note post 352 is pvturist posting an interesting readlist and I think he was on to something there, where had Skygazer as scumleaning.

again, why would I address a wagon on what I thought was a PR? it'd be bad play to scream from the rooftops "hey everyone! stop voting NM! I think he's a PR!" I think you're reading too much into Baezu's unvote, it definitely seems like something scum would do to avoid the attention of an L-1 vote and to gain towncred since it looks townie at the surface level but is easy to fake.

I actually really like these points, my problem is why are you only now bringing up the whole PR-read thing that you probably should have mentioned at the beginning of Day 3 considering how essential it is to your read on NM!
Scum could easily have that excuse in the backburner and use it now.
Then again saying it at the beginning of the day could be easily faked too and would be very convenient for setting up a mislynch, so I'm willing to put it at townlean.

[Exilon]

EBWOP: not setting, pushing for*

[Exilon]

Why would i pockey anyone at this stage, it's lylo. If i were scum i wouldn't have syarted the day by going for my scum partner who i had been tring up to now.
And if he's a mislynch i wouldn't even have to bother pocketing anyone

[Exilon]

I would love if baezu could post some analysis as opposed to going 'meh ee can scumhunt tomorrow'

[Exilon]

Hi sash!

About that readlist:
...
Hum

I'm not sure how to put this.

Are you faking that readlist?

[Exilon]

It's not about the reads being bad per se, it's just... if they were right town would have lost the game already.

[Exilon]

Now you only have to convince the rest of the gang that Sky is scum and with whom.

[Exilon]

@Exilon
You were SRing Gimmick in 356 and 420-421.
I dind't get how you came to a town read in 508.

I've explained this multiple times already, check 512

[Exilon]

No.

[Exilon]

I'm currently more inclined to believe we have a NM/Baezu scumteam.

[Exilon]

EBWOP: Sash* sorry

[Exilon]

Now you only have to convince the rest of the gang that Sky is scum and with whom.

deja vu

[Exilon]

You're lurking.

[Exilon]

I would love if baezu could post some analysis as opposed to going 'meh ee can scumhunt tomorrow'

Agree with this

Ok I will look through the thread at my next opportunity and give an updated read...this week has slammed me and I m not sure when that will be but it will be the first thing I do the next time I’m on!

[Exilon]

Yeah, i spotted that too.

[Exilon]

Well who could he be scum with other than baezu?

[Exilon]

you haven't been hammered after i voted

It implicates you are also scum to someone who believes I'm town, although there doesn't seem to be a lot of those here.

Do you think this is new information?

[Exilon]

I just find it interesting that you seem to be having to remind yourself that she has to be scum, rather than having it set in stone that she is scum.

[Exilon]

I just find it interesting that you seem to be having to remind yourself that she has to be scum, rather than having it set in stone that she is scum.

I wanted to type something, but if you want I can go back to N_M's style...

You're blackmailing us by threatening to play against your win condition?
that's nice.

[Exilon]

I kind of really really want baezu to speak up.
But I'm actually extracting really good information from your interactions, so by all means, please continue

[Exilon]

and yes, I'll be around deadline.

[Exilon]

i feel like baezu's just gonna lurk this out tbh esp if they're scum but ok

I mean....
that's kind of the confirmation I want?

[Exilon]

6 hours to go and I won't be here later. I don't know where baezu is, so it's going to be up to me to hammer.
So, here we go!
VOTE: Sashaddin

may the odds ever be in our favour or something.

[Exilon]

If it's gimm+skygazer they played a good game and deserve to win

[Exilon]

I actually thought your actions late game were pretty scummy but my theory was that you were pulling the only possible move Sky/NM could which was to bus NM

[Exilon]

and by late game I mean the last 3-4 posts lol

[Exilon]

GG!

[Exilon]

Slipping left and right