Newbie 1941 - Game over

[RCEnigma]

Voilà! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified, and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin van-guarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition.

The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous.

Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose, so let me simply add that it is my very good honor to meet you and you may call me, The Real RC.

[RCEnigma]

i guse if i was scum i really would want to try to to act the same way as i do as town im just saying would i fly under the radar like that

Im askingm what do you think wouldnt make uou fly under the radar? Town!cyrus should have no issue with answering this question.

the 4th vote is what i meant because scum would do that and hope that some one will hammer and then say they quick hammer d and make town look bad as to hope to get the town lynched the next day

No sensible town would quick hammer, and no sensible scum would quick hammer(except for LyLo) but D1 aint LyLo pal.

Everything outside of newbie queue is going to be a culture shock if you assume town won't quickhammer.

[RCEnigma]

Hello again Teacher! It's nice to see you.

I'll get to it eventually on my reread but could you summarize your suspicions on my predecessor?

[RCEnigma]

Ahh I assume you're voting due to the force replace. From you voting this slot I can tell you your interpretation of the situation is likely wrong.

This also spews Cyrus' slot pretty hard.

[RCEnigma]

10 pages down

Cyrus town
Holden, emps light leans
Kaniffe, Teacher, Nacl, jackal null

Krazy isnt really null at this point but equal parts scum/town lean. Holden pushing on Krazy looks good and it's exactly where I would have pushed for 1 specific thing that pinged me out. Our reads are pretty similar early game though so that's a thing.

[RCEnigma]

How many wagon coins would you like to invest into holden and emps town?

Only 10 pages in so...0.

[RCEnigma]

@Kanifee, can you tell me what you think of Red?

Red had always been a bit of a wild card to me, and it's been hard to tell what's townie, what's scummy, and what's just NAI playstyle when it comes to him.
As for what happened these last few pages besides the obvious there was one post that stuck out to me by them.

Cyrus it's ok to sheep your townreads

That just seems very weird to say.
Maybe it's some weird strategy thing, but at face value that seems scummy to me.
Also he never answered my question about what a scumclaim even is, and I'm still wondering.

Overall though at least through July 4th I'm willing to wait and see what the replacements bring.

What makes it a scummy statement?

[RCEnigma]

lynch red for great justice.

I can provide my interpretation of what happened, but I would suggest we move on. I dont think it is alignment indicative for any of the slots.

why lynch red slot? I'm feeling town there pretty well

I’m not. I’m seeing weak wagon joins, very different personality than the game you shared and pocketing of Cyrus. Want to convince me?

Also, to show my age and lack of hipness, what is ngl? I see it a lot and have an atmospheric meaning but not an actual one.

Now, I'll admit I'm 100% biased here. Understandably. But do you feel that way because red had you as their number 1 fos and/or were trying you to Ico?

Just on a quick RF iso my slot pushed Ico pretty hard, especially recently. I don't think "If Ico flips town Lynch me next" is really weak wagoin joining. You could argue it's posturing but I'd obviously argue back.

Also as we both know, pocketing is not a scum exclusive action and with Cyrus bleeding town I think it's a pretty obvious choice to townlock that slot.

I'm assuming Ico was let off the hook for claiming VT? I haven't gotten this far I've seen it referenced as well as a VT claim from Cyrus. Which happened first?

[RCEnigma]

In the Interest of transparency, im likely not moving my vote from Ico. Going anywhere outside of the already claimed VTs risks outing PRs. Also it's likely myself or Spangled end up being the nk. (Spangled should be pretty towncleared on play plus the rep out.) And I have the potential to lock the town up given enough time, from a scum perspective it's easier to cut me off with no momentum.

[RCEnigma]

Hey Nacl. What are your general reads at the moment?

[RCEnigma]

Hi I'm back, btw Ico is at L-1.

If only this wasn't newbie queue...

[RCEnigma]

I actually don't need that reads list nacl I found what I was looking for.

[RCEnigma]

I'm not as caught up as you are, however I'm not as big a fan of emps as my predecessor. I'm actually surprised you are giving him as much wiggle room as you are given its your slot he's pushed a majority of the day and for *generally* weak reasoning.

[RCEnigma]

Hi I'm back, btw Ico is at L-1.

If only this wasn't newbie queue...

What do you mean by that?

I probably would have hammered and read up in the night. But I like to set a better example in this queue and I don't have my bearings yet.

Quick note, I'm trying to decide if allowing emps to lead the town up to the point I've read is SE scum indicative or not.

[RCEnigma]

What do you mean not know what his alignment is?

[RCEnigma]

I ... Like you're Amished lite telling ...

[RCEnigma]

Spoiler: cyrus cases(this is like mostly scum will do some town ones later

Oh yeah, also what are everyones timezones/regular posting hours?

Mine are UTC+7 (i think maybe UTC+8)
Im on V/LA (vacation/limited access)
So expect them to vary
But i can probs post every morning and evening/night at least

did you remember to tell the mod your on v/la


im not to sure my time zone but its 4 30 am now i post when ever day noon night when ever i can

well i always find honesty is the best policy unless i have something to hide for example i would have lied at least once if i was scum lol i thought i gave diffent answers already

this is a suggestion of Lynch All Liars, where you, well, lynch all liars. ill probs pull a few posts of him contradiciting himself later on here

im getting confused quickly okay i am answering the best i can mate . maybe i should state this is my 2nd forum game completely so i aniit to sure how to find scum yet k. i guise i would try to pocket people and bus more town read more scum read more and town lean more as to try to throw others off but maybe i wouldn't post much maybe i would wait hours and post only after every one else try to draw as little attention to my self as i could,

so, pocketing, focused on staying a TL not anything else, and lurk?

You really dont seem like the type of guy to lurk as either alignment.

If you lurked as scum itd be a dead giveaway seeing as how much you post

Also you keep mentioning that this is your second game. Im asking multiple first timers to answer the same exact questions, and i do not want basically the same answer for 5 and 6 from them either.

yes you got it

yes you got it is very vague, and he only responded once i asked him to clarify. I made 3 points that couldve been "gotten"

im getting confused quickly okay i am answering the best i can mate . maybe i should state this is my 2nd forum game completely so i aniit to sure how to find scum yet k. i guise i would try to pocket people and bus more town read more scum read more and town lean more as to try to throw others off but maybe i wouldn't post much maybe i would wait hours and post only after every one else try to draw as little attention to my self as i could,

so, pocketing, focused on staying a TL not anything else, and lurk?

You really dont seem like the type of guy to lurk as either alignment.

If you lurked as scum itd be a dead giveaway seeing as how much you post

Also you keep mentioning that this is your second game. Im asking multiple first timers to answer the same exact questions, and i do not want basically the same answer for 5 and 6 from them either.

yes you got it

What did i get? The fact that, odds are you lied about you probably lurking as scum?

i said how i would play as scum i would lurk and try to pocket more and give more reads so cant come up with a better answer then i did any way .

There is no way you would lurk as scum, it'd be a dead giveaway. cant say why due to ongoing games.

Firstly this is a hypothetical, since Cyrus hasn't rolled scum at least before this game. So it's possible he may lurk, he may not. He doesn't have an established meta at all so grilling him on this is just kind of pointless.
Also this is only Emps perception of Cyrus' nonexistent scum meta and is in no way stable enough to build a read around. Tying this with Cyrus' scum meta that does not yet exist is disingenuous.

Alright let's walk you guys through this. You may think that we're playing mafia, but I'm playing Wagonomics. I want to have the most WAGONCOINS at the end of the game!

At the START of the game, everyone gets 100 Wagoncoins. You have 100 wagoncoins! And you have 100 wagoncoins! Everyone has 100 wagoncoins!

From there, there are two uses of wagoncoins. You can either choose to INVEST in a wagon. You may put your wagon coins into that wagon and if the slot flips RED, you will get double your investment back! Huzzah!

Or you can choose to ACCEPT a bet.

For example, here is an opening BET

I bet 50 Coins that Wagononomics will NOT be alive on day 3

Now that I have offered the best, anyone can choose to accept the bet! Put up your own 50 wagon coins if you think I WILL be alive on day 3!

Note that while investments can be SOLD at any time, BETS cannot be cancelled once made!

I will also start an initial INVESTMENT
VOTE: Jackal711

Since this is a RANDOM investment, I am only INVESTING

5 wagoncoins

.

this sounds like fun ok i bet 60 that red is scum and 40 that emps is town ps i like you

what was the ps i like you at the end for? a pocket attempt?

so emps ask him the questions i want to see how wagonomics answers

Alright, hello everyone, welcome to day 1!

VOTE: Emps

Have some questions for everyone

1. What kind of experience do you have with Mafia?

2. How did you find out/get into MafiaScum?

3. How do you scumread people?

4. How do you townread people?

5. How do you play as town?

6. How do you play as scum?

1. I haven't played in 4-5 years, but I used to play on GameFaqs and EpicMafia, so I'm aware of the general rules and stuff.
2. It came up before as I was searching for alternate places to play before. I didn't participate, but I enjoyed reading through finished games from time to time.
3 & 4. I don't think I can say any real rule to how to do this. I mostly sort of find people that I consider to be town and then look through the rest by process of elimination. I'll look through posts and try and decide if it would be more beneficial to be something someone's saying as scum or something someone's saying as town.
5. I'd say that I'm generally more hands off. I'm fairly quiet and mostly just talk when I have something to contribute.
6. Hopefully the same way as I play when town, except I have to fake my contributions to the discussion, of course.

Anyways, let's see about other stuff.
I don't really have anything to say about Wagonomics and his betting game, though I don't really care much for it.
I don't like Emps' posts very much, my vote is serious.
Hey, Cyrus, what do you think of emps' questions? Do you consider them useful?

thinks scratches bead yes i find them very useful just no when i feel pushed when i cant answer them the way he wants but other then that i think its like a ice breaker

he likes the questions, until, of course, he gets pressured by them? the whole point is to pressure...

Also just noticed

Newb!scum greeting

Gettem boyssss

VOTE: NaCL

was that a pocket attempt at me or was i seeing things

again, another way to back out if necessary (the "was i just seeing things")
also that was so not a pocket attempt and maybe a hopeful attempt of a wagon on NaCl and an early ML

contradictory, considering Cyrus placed a vote after the statement. Granted I don't know what the pocket thing was about. Emps started the wagon here not Cyrus, then calls it a ml. Not sure if that's because of a changed read after the fact, but why vote there if you would consider it a ml. Also why would emps having a scumread on nacl invalidate Cyrus' scumread on the same slot.

ok off to bed good night peeps i maybe be over reacting i but i felt asking me like that was a attention grab but i may be over reacting.

another way to back out

continued scumbias on nai statements

fyi still waited on red to post since they like to over game but maybe they are hiding. this game.

another way to back out (the whole "they may be lurking")

Town also encourages engagement, in fact more so than scum, so.

question if Emps is like me "new" to here why dose he feel the need to tell other new guys how to play shouldn't he had waited on the (se players to do that) don't mind me only carefully reading every bit of every post to see if i can find scum and posting thoughts

am i not allowed to try to help newbies as well?(NAI(non alignment indicative) btw, just pointing it out)

emps are you trying to kill your self on day 1 laughs hard at the mistake that's a good one mate very good hahaha

i forgot holden, proceeds to hint at scum!holden

Don't actually know what any of this is about

Emps is a newbie, never rolled scum, on V/LA and has almost 100 posts (we aren't in page 10 yet)
I will eat my hat if emps is scum
/bet emps town 80

can i watch i'll give you some bbq sauce

implies scum!me

possible tmi actually, but that implies emps and Cyrus as scum together. And I'm gonna go ahead and sideye that

realy wondering how emps and wagon guy are helping find scum all i see is post after post of non since getting tired of it give others a chance to talk so i can read them mate.

we got out of RVS and got reactions. thats the point of posting early game.

i rather we not lynch some one till the end of day one so we have 10 days to find are two scum and then start lynching the longer day 1 is the bteer off it is for town the shorter it is the better off for scum ... this just in i honestly cant say red is scum or town yet becuse they havent posted enough



on a diffent topic emps is buging me but i could just be getting mad cuse i cant stop hearing about dog the bounty hunters wife from my wife and it just bugs me to no end . rl is lame sometimes i wish i could just jump in to a game ...

back to game i placed a bet that red is scum and its 30 coins so my read on him is very slight and mostly at the thought they may be hideing and trying to pocket people.

but i dont know for sure. and now emps is talking again when i am trying to post really want to use duct tape so i can get a word in.

again, the whole "emps is pissing me off, also he might be scum"
they also SLed/SRed Red off of aroiund 1 or 2 posts

i have another reason to pick on red they joind in my birth day insted of getting drunk. lol .... post blocked by emps again will use rope to tie his hands lol.

again, getting pissy at me for initiating discussion
finding excuse to SL/SR red, also its a horrible one.

holdem feels kinda scummy to me pointing fingers.. post blocked by red gives red wet willy my birth day july 27 1987

Pointing fingers is the thing town is suppposed to do...
red wet willy just feels like an unnecessary insult. probs NAI tho

kentucky red kentucky the home of the blue grass and horse raceing

wtf where does this fit in, you were getting asked questions what kinda response is this.

alll i am saying in regards to emps is i dont see how his post help us find scum and that is'nt very town like feels more like he rather joke around then to look for scum.

also im getting in a mood thanks to this beth stuff.

note his word choice. he uses "isnt very town" instead of scummy, so he can back out of it later and say "oh you guys are misinterpreting it"
also need i explain how my posts help again?

ok gets a rope and starts getting it ready for me lol go ahead mate i anit scared to be lynchd .

went from incredibly defensive to "i dont care lynch me"
also the whhole getting angry at me thing.

i cant post a defense if no one quits posting every 10 seconds so i anit going to bother to try so do as you wish.

actually, yes you can.

Cyrus, could you respond to this?

holdem feels kinda scummy to me pointing fingers.. post blocked by red gives red wet willy my birth day july 27 1987

And I was feeling pretty good about you before this post...what's scummy about how holdem's accusing people?

i feel as if holdem was accuseing wagon for no reason other then to try to get coins and he wasn't really looking for scum just complying alot and then saying i was scum becuse i was hasing emps to try to post more i cant get a word in. every post on emps is a joke lol if you note i didnt change him from town to scum but i did say holdem is more scummy and placed a bet on him and im not worried about being lychd becuse we wont lose from a day 1 one mis lynch

so again go a head and do so i wont bother to defend my self when i have no reason to do so. also i have to run to store and i anit pulling no poor me im saying i anit scared of it.

notice how he says "go ahead i wont bother to defend myself when i have no reason to do so"

you have a huge ass reason to do so. your being pressured. you

have to

give a defense as either alignment, otherwise its throwing the game.

also, notice how weak his defense is. he isnt saying why hes town, because there arent very many good cases for it, but instead does an OMGUS, which basically means they get SRed by someone and proceed to say the person SRing/SLing them is probscum when they have no real reasoning behind it.

[RCEnigma]

I did. I'm not sure what you're getting at?

[RCEnigma]

So up to page 20 and I feel emps is tunneled on Cyrus at this point. Cyrus is well within his right to assume scum is on his wagon (that is a logical conclusion for town to come to. Not to play the association game preflip but let's play the association game.

For Cyrus to be scum here he would have to have a partner in myself, Kaniffe, Teacher, or Wagon.

Fmpov (From my point of view) - I know Red/RC + Cyrus is never a team. I shouldn't really be the one explaining this but the hard pocket and the pushback coming from the recipient, Cyrus, isn't an S/S interaction.

Teacher- umm...at this point it's plausible that he voted Cyrus to L-1 to distance before he backtracked. Admittedly I don't have a strong read on Teacher at this point in the thread.

Wagon- Extremely passive while this is playing out, I wouldn't expect Krazy to let a partner be run up if it doesn't alter the game state in a scum favorable way. That's kind of convoluted yes I know.

Kaniffe- the most likely partner with a Scum!Cyrus but Kaniffe's Iso is pretty barren at this point. I'll come back to this when I have a better read on Kaniffe as a whole.

However I think the lack of any Cyrus defense is telling. It's suboptimal for scum to wait on town to attempt defending one of them. If I were a betting man I'd put like... Idk 90 wagoncoins on Cyrus!Town.

[RCEnigma]

What is 552 about? The pov switch is weird. Really weird, how did that not give anyone the heebie jeebies?

[RCEnigma]

843 I agree to an extent. Interested to see if your perspective changes with Spangleds rep in.

[RCEnigma]

Caught up, but it feels super uneventful. I've come to the conclusion not all of the SEs are town and my priority sorts are wagon/teacher/Ico. Problem for me is that I can both towncase and scumcase each of these slots.

I'm also afraid I'm just going to default to a scumread on Ico out of necessity and the fact he's in that Poe.

I did have a moment in the last 10 pages when wagon and teacher bumped heads that made me think "This definitely isn't TvT" but the conflict just disappeared and I'm still scratching my head.

[RCEnigma]

What is 552 about? The pov switch is weird. Really weird, how did that not give anyone the heebie jeebies?

That's one of my posts he failed to correctly quote in response to cyrus question iirc.

That's why the rest of that post is my posts quoted lol.

Oh fair enough, that makes sense actually.

[RCEnigma]

What is 552 about? The pov switch is weird. Really weird, how did that not give anyone the heebie jeebies?

What you think his partner wrote it and he copy/pasted from scum pt? Yeah it is weird to write about yourself in third person, wagonomics said to the town.

That was RCEnigma's first thought yes.

[RCEnigma]

If I live through the night can we start rvs over?

[RCEnigma]

that's mostly just because he is extremely hard to read and for that reason easy for scum to push for mislynches.

This is kinda a weird thing to say. Like Ive only been mislynched twice in my 20ish games - once at lylo (ahem),

[Deleted due to discussion of ongoing games]

. SO I dont think Im an easy mislynch push? And I think I remember you saying in that lylo game that I am never lhf. So Im missing something.

that's mostly just because he is extremely hard to read and for that reason easy for scum to push for mislynches.

This is kinda a weird thing to say. Like Ive only been mislynched twice in my 20ish games - once at lylo (ahem), and once as a counterclaimed PR where I had been playing semi-intentionally scummy. SO I dont think Im an easy mislynch push? And I think I remember you saying in that lylo game that I am never lhf. So Im missing something.

I was scum that game

Sure, but (a) that doesnt mean you didnt think it, so that's an odd dodge, and (b) that still ignores the lack of mislynches on me. I mean, I change my game to suit my needs with the best of them, but I dont think Im ever an easy lynch so Im asking you to show your work.

that's mostly just because he is extremely hard to read and for that reason easy for scum to push for mislynches.

This is kinda a weird thing to say. Like Ive only been mislynched twice in my 20ish games - once at lylo (ahem), and once as a counterclaimed PR where I had been playing semi-intentionally scummy. SO I dont think Im an easy mislynch push? And I think I remember you saying in that lylo game that I am never lhf. So Im missing something.

I was scum that game

Sure, but (a) that doesnt mean you didnt think it, so that's an odd dodge, and (b) that still ignores the lack of mislynches on me. I mean, I change my game to suit my needs with the best of them, but I dont think Im ever an easy lynch so Im asking you to show your work.

I didn't say you were an easy lynch I said you were an easy push. Actually you being a hard lynch is why you are a good scum push cause they can just say you're scummy all game to present the appearance of solving without having to deal with your greenflip. Remember that game I said you were "never lhf" I also spent half the game shading you and got townread for it

Towncore: Emps, Holden, NaCl
Leantown: Kaniffee, Ico
Cant read him if you paid me money: Cyrus
Scumleans: Wagon, Red

[RCEnigma]

Now that I'm looking at it, I don't really know how to parse Teacher intending to hammer Ico, then townleaning him and sharing wagon but voting red. It's a lot to take in during a short amount of time.

[RCEnigma]

UNVOTE: Cyrus/Springfleg dude

With all the replacements and the nature behind this slot in particular, I'm going to redraw my vote right now before heading into ISOs land. I will say it is a werid (non AI) feeling having the person who replaced into your top scum slot also called the slot scum.

It's scum indicative more often than town indicative.

[RCEnigma]

I don't know why I quoted them individually like that. Just going in order I guess lol.

[RCEnigma]

Example of Elsa Jay using this tactic as scum here

As well as using it myself here

Haven't seen it used by town. Don't think reading your own slot is a priority for a town rep in, you don't have to sort yourself so it's more or less busywork.

Why does scum use this tell? I'm not really sure, maybe to project how "objectively" they're reading the game if they are including their own slot. Or to seem more involved in gamesolving. But again they don't have to solve their own slot.

[RCEnigma]

I'm not as caught up as you are, however I'm not as big a fan of emps as my predecessor.

Ah sorry, bad grammar.

By that I meant I didn't have Emps as high a townread as my predecessor (Red) had him.

[RCEnigma]

What do you think about Spangleds replace in? Or rather what he's done since repping in.

[RCEnigma]

Here's my catch-up, now with pagelinks!

Spoiler: Catchup

|PAGE 4|
I don't like 81

In 88, first bold with vote then 'I'm only bold when I'm town'

93 is slightly townie; legit confused tone.

|PAGE 5|

low in 118 'as scum I'd try to keep some suspicion alive on me': what the heck is this reasoning

|PAGE 6|

NACL provokes discussion (see 148); good questions

|PAGE 7|

157 is legit, but a bit weird

174 is kind of weird let's see where this goes

|PAGE 13|

Holden is nice and towny; 319

|PAGE 14|

I know 325 is a case on *me* but I'm liking emps more and more

329 - I swear the amount of times I've seen scum say they'll read everything later... is about the same amount as I've seen town do it

|PAGE 15|

368 makes a good point, I don't think scum would catch that/point it out

teacher's reasoning in 374 is good

|PAGE 16|

377's 'there's no way I'm going to be alive tomorrow' feels a bit lamisty

379 hurts me it's such a newbie thing to do

381 still rubs me the wrong way though

393 helps me yet further with town!emps, even if he doesn't understand the sheer newbieness of cyrus; I softed a PR investigative role and then hardclaimed a JK my first game (teacher you'll remember that)

|PAGE 17|

401 makes me cringe
(sorry everyone I'll stop commenting on my slot)

|PAGE 18

431 helps me think town!teacher

|PAGE 19|

456 for Wagonlad is helping me think him town but he hasn't said much else to help

473: 'but it's not my fault there are 19 plus pages of this to go through on the first literal day. Not just day one in game but the the first physical day' is exactly how I feel

|PAGE 20|

479: I'm absolutely hating Red right now; not because I disagree but this is so low effort I can't even

481 is helping me a little thank you Red

482-484 are also helping me

although 483's last line seems like posturing, but maybe that's just Red

485 goes a little far (a mislynch isn't gamethrowing)

486 understands cyrus (I'm not claiming anything, it just agrees with my feelings about cyrus' newbieness)

487 shows Red hasn't read everything (ba dum tish); doesn't know about Holden's joke-case on Wagonlad
- but the last line makes a good point

488 has some good reasong, but I'm going to stop giving posts that show town!emps; for me there are too many

498 helps me feel some town!Kaniffee, but not really much

|PAGE 21|

504 and 505 further help me with town!NaCl

|PAGE 23|

573 does feel pocket a bit

|PAGE 24|

579 Kaniffee is still a weak TL

there's so much I want to say on cyrus; I kind of wish I was replacing into a different spot so I could analyse and re-analyse and build cases
but

|PAGE 25|

620 makes my read on Red officially a weak townread

|PAGE 26

634 Red what even
you're not scummy, you're towny, but your playstyle is just

I can feel 644 as town but for some reason teacher is still rubbing me the wrong way and it'll stay a null read at this point

|PAGE 27|

658 is damn straight (hey it even rhymes)

663 pushes teacher to a weak TL

668: I think it's a personal thing but I hate it when people say 'I'm just town'; I think I'm easily convinced by people to feel a certain way about others, so my brain gets mixed messages when people say that; wanting to agree with them but also not wanting to be the person who sheeps others, so I vaguely SR those who say stuff like that
I'd say 'everyone consider yourself warned' but that would feel like posturing; rather, everyone keep that in mind somewhat
(that still feels like posturing but anyway)

673 what does this post even mean (but this is NAI; the tone is weird but y'know)

|PAGE 28|

675 feels townier yet; NaCl is okay in my mind

685 pushes NaCl to a TL I think

696 makes Holden town I think despite disagreements with that post

699 I'm really feeling town!Holden

|PAGE 30

729 doesn't help me with Kaniffee; it's NAI for me. Pushing a PL aggressively is the action of scum, and Kaniffee isn't doing that, but...

|PAGE 31|

753 sounds like it should be a joke

Despite that, feeling better on town!Wagonlad as of 754 to 759
his response to Red's Jackal vote just feels weird to me though (760)

768 feels a bit posture-y but not very scummy and not enough to change my thoughts on Holden

|PAGE 32|

786 - scum don't ask to freeze the deadline I don't think; teacher's still looking towny

|PAGE 33|

Personally I disagree with 802; newb!scum don't tend to ask questions about people's reads (but Red shows towny reasoning)

Thank you for voicing my thoughts in 818; PLs don't help town if you can find scum (which you can)

|PAGE 34|

Kaniffee's reasoning on Holden is just rubbish (838); it's half way to the 'firetrucks are red and they're always rushin' (Russian) around, so they're from the USSR' thing
(did I get that right?)
I mean it might just be that they don't understand ToS and it's 'jokey'-ness but seriously?

840 what is this tldr

842 teacher's reasoning is sound

843 I'm liking teacher yet more

|PAGE 35|

Kaniffee 858 you are going back down to null; there are better people to lynch than teacher

871 I'm still good with town!Holden

|PAGE 36|

875 is a defence that can go either way for me but I'm leaning scummy

Ico going against the flow in 878 is good

But still 883 heck yeah it's an underwhelming catch-up. Still, his going against the flow, especially on teacher and emps, is good

886 is so Red and it's kind of frustrating in that I want to SR for that casualness but I still feel like that's just Red being Red

Liking 889

What is 890 gah

|PAGE 37|

I like 903's analysis, Holden is towny

teacher's willingness in 904 to explain himself to cyrus is slightly towny to me

I like teacher's analysis of cyrus in 906 as well

Flash thought: I still don't like Red's willingness to just make an Ico flashwagon (is that a phrase people use?)
and I can't hide my thoughts behind 'it's just Red being Red' forever
And jumping off teacher without an explanation is sort of iffy
But Red is Red; it can't be changed

|PAGE 38|

930 is going with the flow
Kaniffee is my scummiest read yet I think

in 944, what NaCl says about Red is true. Maybe Red could be scum


|PAGE 39|

963 has some good reasoning gah I keep flip-flopping about which way to to sort Red
But I do still think teacher is probably town

966 has good reasoning

Agreeing with 967 mostly.

968 has good reasoning I guess


|PAGE 40|

Ico is seeming town but he also rubs me the wrong way a bit. 991 in particular.

But he does have some good reasoning - but scum can display good reasoning as well.

[I'M NOT REALLY SURE]

emps seems to have drifted into irrelevance at this point but I'm keeping my TR of him

Oh, no, just proved me wrong (on the irrelevance, not on the towniness)

I'm liking teacher more and more but he's back to rubbing me the wrong way a bit

|PAGE 41|

I'm mostly sheeping teacher on 1021 but I reckon Kaniffee is not a townlean, and I'm more putting Wagon and Red at null. Also not really sure on Ico.

1024 feels a bit like buddying, but I don't really know how much it is buddying, or how AI it is.


|PAGE 42|

1025 I agree with teacher somewhat, and he's definitely got some good reasoning on Ico.

What the heck is 1033

Kaniffee is looking so scummy for me; they're just gliding on all the townpoints they've earned and aren't doing anything

Everyone is ignoring Kaniffee


|PAGE 43|

1053; 'Well seeing as teacher is unlikely to be lynched' - if you think someone is scum, push a flipping lynch (ba dum tish)

|PAGE 44|

1079 and 1080 feels a bit like posturing - but maybe that's just Red

|PAGE 45|

1104 has mostly good thoughts, but there's nothing wrong with being on a vanity

Emps I think you've got it wrong in 1114; you should stall claim as vt because it narrows the pool of who the PRs are. With both Ico and I (cyrus) having claimed, that narrows down scum's pool of who to shoot to 5 players.
I'm not saying I'm vt though; let's get this wifom going

|PAGE 46|

What is this fluff-talking p.g. 46

|PAGE 49|

I can't comment on all of p.g. 49 because it's just ico fighting cyrus

[SOMEWHERE]

I hope someone can tell me after the game why cyrus and Red were force-replaced

|PAGE 50|

The second paragraph of 1246 seems off to me; it's just bad reasoning. Sheeping your townreads to some degree makes sense.

|PAGE 51|

1260: that is an excellent movie, if only because of the delicious alliteration. Hopefully, RCE, I can sort you better than I have been sorting Red (which is to say not much).

If you use the post tags [post]Post #[./.post] it will take you directly there which is what I think Teacher meant.

[RCEnigma]

Kaniffee, when I asked to rap with you I was asking you to explain why you are scum on my slot. You’ve repeatedly expressed suspicious, but not reasons. I want to see how you think a little more.

I have given reasons 1047 and 579.
As for defense @spangled I really don't feel like looking through all the posts or assuming which ones you mentioned refer to me (since you didn't attach names to some).

Low effort defending yourself? Seriously? I don't know if that's scummy (maybe you know you can't defend yourself or something...?) or just low-effort town.

With Kaniffe, I didn't double check the work. But I was already reading through so kind of familiar with what posts are what. It's not really alignment indicative.

[RCEnigma]

We have 7 hours till deadline, let's not flash wagon here.

[RCEnigma]

There were like 2 counterwagons. Cyrus was very recently a counterwagon to Ico.

Mind sharing what you think was scummy from my end?

Also, why ask for Teachers input specifically if he's your biggest scumread?

[RCEnigma]

And now I'm thinking that I should really think before I post because now it has me doubting my previous statement. It only works if you two are scum together, and looking at it, it's more likely that Wagon was just more suspicious of Ico. I'm just somewhat put off by the upcoming lynch, it felt too quiet.

It happens when town are having trouble finding each other, scum is flying under the radar, or scum is content with the gamestate.

So yes it is very possible Ico flips town. But he has scum equity and is low risk via the VT claim. As opposed to running up another slot close deadline that could potentially be a PR and scrambling to get another wagon in. A Lynch is significantly better than not having one at all.

[RCEnigma]

Why is it more likely? Isn't the killer and the killed both 1/8 chance of hitting individually?

because the JK can be targeted

Jk would also be targeting someone they assume to be scum over someone they townread that could possibly be blocking a PR.

[RCEnigma]

Yeah, are you saying the mafia passed on their kill, then?

They could have done that to let us WIFOM.

...But it would be a suboptimal strategy, wouldn't it?
They don't really gain anything out of it... I wouldn't think...
Since lack of a nightkill doesn't really change who we decide to lynch.
I don't think.

It puts us in evens but that's about it.

[RCEnigma]

When I get some motivation to effort I'll pro/con both Teacher and Wagon.

[RCEnigma]

I'll say that Kaniffe is probably the most consistent slot in this game. Like it's impressive.

[RCEnigma]

Getting it together, on reread I think Teachers Iso wreaks and I don't know if I'm just scumpainting everything I'm seeing. Like I know when I repped in I only really jived with a select few posts but I'm 70 posts into the iso and none of those posts are in there.

[RCEnigma]

Another note, If wagon is scum then Nacl is the likeliest partner. I'm still adamant there is 1 between wagon/Teacher which means there is 1 between Kaniffe/Nacl. That's kind of redeeming for Teacher but Nacl could also be a partner, less so than Wagon/Nacl.

I don't see Teacher/Kaniffe bussing this hard given Kaniffe's low experience and Teachers playstyle. That said it's not like Teacher has really committed to pushing Kaniffe at any point.

[RCEnigma]

What's your reasoning for Wagon and NaCl being a likely scum team?

Same reason I think Nacl + Teacher is plausible. Low amount of meaningful interaction, but in different ways if that makes sense. I'm isoing Teacher now which I will touch on what I mean a little bit.

[RCEnigma]

Spoiler: Lot of quotes

Yea, I’m mobile Posting so not going to answer the Questions.

The only player I’m familiar With on this list is emps. I think He is town. So VOTE: emps

I’m Just Kidding - I have a tendency to RvS the players On the list I’m familiar with, but Already have a lean there.

I don’t like the wagonomics Schlick because I think It distracts from Hunting. I am Confident without meta that it is NAI. I’m not going to be Playing however.

UNVOTE: til I get a chance to actually read the pages I slept through.

This is busy work, even for rvs. But there is wiggle room for joking. I kind of agreed with his take on wagons gimmick initially but after giving it some thought Wagon seems to have pro town intentions with it that I think Teacher would agree with if he were to question what it really accomplishes.

I don't like Emps' posts very much, my vote is serious.

Show work/explain.

Weak interaction it's nai but semi relevant as it doesn't warrant the scumread to follow.

Sorry, I realized after the Fact that two of my ketchup posts had Already been explained/answered.

Alright I’m up to speed. Very soft leans from a speed Read:
Town: emps, Cyrus
Scum: NaCl

Soft emps pocket attempt? I don't think it's a chainsaw but slots will instinctively feel better about players that are defending them.

I personally do not want anymore votes on his wagon

Challenge accepted.

VOTE: Cyrus.

That’s L-1.

Now time to ketchup again.

Uncharacteristic from Teacher and really jumped out to me initially. Reads like rolefishing early.

My vote was because there is no harm to getting to L-1 and it would create a reaction while I read through. I didn’t see why you are so leery of it. Like the worst that could happen is someone lolhammering, and that’s not that terrible given the facts it spews.

Pedit: yea, emps. But it’s common courtesy to let directed questions lie because the questioner may be looking for something specifically out of the target that they don’t want you to varnish. If you’re going to answer a question directed at someone else, at least ask permission first.

Holden has every right to be suspicious of the L-1 vote. I agree with the pedit portion but that's more game etiquette.

Oh wow. That is just terrible play that we should chat about after the game. But go ahead now since youve basically softed it harder than I have ever seen.

Why highlight this?

OK, so let me talk some strategy here in general:

It is always worth it to trade a PR for a scum. But not necessarily on D-1. If he claims, do not immediately counterclaim. Assess whether it would be better to save it for D-2, so that there is one night where scum is unaware of your identity (and early D-2, the false claimant would have to put out some additional associational data, regardless whether claiming investigative or protective).

Im not saying its wrong to counterclaim. But I am saying that there would be steps to think through.

Weird perspective, scum have near perfect knowledge of the setup so there is always a high possibly there is no CC at all. That and a 1v1 day 1 between town/scum is always profitable for town. Always.

Taking my bet from Kanifee scum and re-investing them into Jackal scum

Concur. Was doing an ISO readslist and just not impressed. Def in my PoE (with Kaniffee).

How do you feel about Cyrus? Holden?

Im feeling Red and Emps for town so far. Im leaning that way on you and NaCl. Im v. conflicted about the two I asked you about.

I haven't skipped very many posts in this iso tbh. Unexplained reads: Red, Cyrus, Nacl. The latter is the alarming one.

i honestly dont think reds scum i was just teaseing him to get him to talk

Can you give reads AND REASONS on players. Like saying "dont think X is scum" is either a great way to null the board or indicate a townlean or simply be vague. And tbh I dont care a jot for anybodys reads. I like reasoning.

You just gave a readslist with no reasoning, this is disingenuous and an abrasive way to talk to a townlean.

The game feels a bit stale to be honest. The no movement in vc comment hit it.

It is objectively too early for a lynch. There are a few slots who I haven’t even started to sort.

@emps if you’re going to unvote with an intent, why not do it now and note your willingness to go back.

@kaniffee is there any time we can jive today - in the next six hours or so? I want to talk w you about reads and see what questions you have as someone totally new. My vote was intended to get more out of you but I haven’t really seen it yet.

Empty observation on the gamestate. Reaching out to Kaniffe is a good start and I do appreciate that in isolation is probably a town motivated olive branch.

Can you all either lynch me or quote whatever new content Cyrus put I. That or lynch him so it never has to be found. Any of the above work for me without preference. Please and thank you. Happy fourth.

I...don't get this. I'm not sure if this is a joke or not but is another uncharacteristic post.

I hate it how teacher is wanting to lynch cyrus so bad even though cyrus is so obvtown and I hate it how he calls cyrus liability when there are people impossible to read becuse of low post counts like jackal or kaniffe.

I wouldnt say so bad. But maybe frustration at illogic/posts I simply couldnt understand got the better of me.

And I think this is an important lesson to impart in the newb!queue because it was a thought process that was foreign to me when I started, but makes alot of sense after TChill broke it down for me. There is town, and then town liabilities -- the people whose posts dont make sense and that you have to functionally ignore. If they are demonstrably town, then fine. But if they are perhaps baiting PRs and otherwise distracting the hunt/being totally incomprehensible, get rid of it. That is a slot you dont want to have left at Lylo, when you have to reevaulate everything and trust the remaining slots (if not you) to apply, well, logic. Instead of playing the game only to lynch scum, add a second objective of setting up the lylo situation that is most optimal for town.

I agree with this on some level. But maybe town doesn't crusade on their townleans?

@emps @cyrus @holden @wagon
What do you think about lynching Ico

Why are you creating counters to Cyrus? What gives you the degree of confidence in that slot?

Town defends slots they think are town. I shared Reds strong read on Cyrus even on my first read-through. I don't feel like this follows the logic just given for the Cyrus push since A.) Ico/jackal is also a lylo liability and B.) Ico is a relatively unsorted slot at this point, even if he isn't the lynch I think town wouldn't mind pressuring for content.

Right but like walk through it. My issue is I thought that, but then realized that I think they would play this style as any alignment. It’s almost like a serial killer/soloball. I don’t think it’s scum but I don’t see how you can have the degree of confidence you are displaying in what reads to me as a very unstable slot regardless alignment.

I added this but I don't remember why. I still don't like Teacher saying Cyrus slot is probtown but lynching this townie is the best we can do.

Ok so I feel the same pings and reason for red even if I crossed an Ico post in to my read there.

On Ico, I’m mostly feeling blah but willing to give a day to break into feeling the pulse of the room. Like a post he calls scummy from NaCl I think is actually quite town. I think I want to wait for actual reasoning and content then pressuring for the same tho.

Teacher you still haven't explained the Nacl read or interacted with Nacl at all. The only time he comes up in your iso is when soft defending him from other slots.

Okay just counted and we are. @Iconeum a defense if you will?

Just to let you know how this works.

If you want to lynch him you give a bolder intent and a deadline (usually 12 plus hours unless there’s a deadline problem with that).

The bolder intent tells Ico to claim his role as PR or VT (nobody claims scum) and gives everybody currently voting Ico a chance to get off if they want before the hammer (lynch vote) falls.

Tbh, it’s early for me on an empty slot so I’m going to get off even before intent.

VOTE: Red

Another slot run up to L-1, I'm not sure if Ico had claimed already so this is kind of out of context. But jumping off when the claim is inevitable to get another push going isn't a great look.

Towncore: Emps, Holden, NaCl
Leantown: Kaniffee, Ico
Cant read him if you paid me money: Cyrus
Scumleans: Wagon, Red

Still interested in the nacl read since he moved up here. Besides Reds strong townread on Cyrus I don't think Teacher gave any real reasoning for the scumread there which is what I was getting at when I asked about the vote and unvote on my rep in.

Only halfway through the day 1 iso I think.

Tldr:

Pros - A few guiding posts directed at the newbies which I feel are town+ even if they are somewhat mechanical/game theory oriented.

- can't fault him for jumping back on Ico when I pushed it with Wagon to prevent further claims.

I can't find a lot for the first half of the iso tbh.

[RCEnigma]

Teacher I feel like you are kind of passive and reactive this game. At first I was townreading it. I thought that it could be that you were just allowing the new players space to get their legs under them so that the SEs weren't bearing over them. I think I held that belief till the comments on the gamestate. Is it wrong to think that would have been a good opportunity to set the game on the right track if you felt that it was becoming stale?

[RCEnigma]

@NaCl
That's fair I suppose. I think spangled cleared up some of my suspicions on the cyrus slot, so I'm not super worried about him being on the wagon with me. I can understand a RC lynch as well.

A little bit off topic, but I have a read I'm a bit wary of if i may ask you for your opinion. What do you make of emps slowdown of posts? It worries me a bit, but I still find his day one play townie

Why is that? I actually feel the opposite way. I think Cyrus was the obvtown and Spangleds entrance kind of made me step back.

[RCEnigma]

I feel like it's pretty obvious that Cyrus and RedFlavor did not share a PT with daytalk lol

I can in fact confirm we do not share a pt.

...Or maybe we're masons *Area 51 theme intensifies*

[RCEnigma]

Ahh, this is what I like to see. Quality discussion!

And all it took was creeping out the thread.

You know people's reads change all the time but it's weird to me that basically all of your reads have hard 180'd over the course of two largely uneventful days emps

I actually would to know as well Emps. Actually quite like this point here.

I would have smooch Wagon even if you didn't ship it.

Are we talking day 1 to day 2 read flips or solely flipping during day 2?

[RCEnigma]

Ahh, this is what I like to see. Quality discussion!

And all it took was creeping out the thread.

You know people's reads change all the time but it's weird to me that basically all of your reads have hard 180'd over the course of two largely uneventful days emps

I actually would to know as well Emps. Actually quite like this point here.

I would have smooched Wagon (with consent) even if you didn't ship it.

Are we talking day 1 to day 2 read flips or solely flipping during day 2?

Ebwop

[RCEnigma]

What's your reasoning for Wagon and NaCl being a likely scum team?

Same reason I think Nacl + Teacher is plausible. Low amount of meaningful interaction, but in different ways if that makes sense. I'm isoing Teacher now which I will touch on what I mean a little bit.

Could you explain what the difference(s) is/are? You've ISO'd Teacher, but haven't compared him to Wagon all that much.

Haven't gotten around to wagon yet. Generally scum are honest, which is an oxymoron but it fits. As far as newbie queue associations scum will null or scumread their partners without really applying pressure there or only on the surface. It's why you want to establish hard stances. Forced conflict can be good for this.

Though neither have interacted much with Nacl that I recall, Teacher has maintained that salt is town. Don't think wagon has mentioned him much but has given content for most of the rest of the playerlist and/or had interactions that don't generally happen between partners like Wagons interactions with Ico and teacher late on day 1.

Bussing isn't really necessary and less attention to a partner is good so that's not like a hard rule it anything which makes both worlds viable.

Teacher and you have the signs of partner interactions but it's kind of one dimensional which reads as intentional possibly.

[RCEnigma]

Further into my teacher tunnel I go.

[RCEnigma]

Part of me thinks he is positioned like scum at end of day 1 and the level of energy in his play today about matches what I'd expect from scum given the game state

Ehh this feels kind of angled in a bad way. I feel like that would apply mostly to a newbie + newbie scum team or newbie + inactive se. Like actually inactive not lurking. The kill being blocked isn't that bad for scum unless they push specifically on the town protect and force a claim.

[RCEnigma]

I was just wondering what you thought about the day 1 wagons.

[RCEnigma]

So I've never played with Scum! Teacher. If I had to guess, this would be the game. I'm finding I'm not agreeing with him generally or with his pushes plus his thought process is usually well articulated and clear which I don't feel is the case here.

My reservation: I'm struggling with the read there as I'm not sure Teacher pushes on me like this as scum unless the mislynch scum had lined up was taken off the table via save or spewed town early today.

On the other hand, Teacher flipping scum today would solve the game if there was a save on anyone besides me. Since Teacher/Wagon isn't S/S and I *should* be spewed town on a red flip. Plus protective and their confirmed.

That's a 3 a.m thought and doesn't include anything nightkill related though.

[RCEnigma]

Actually, never mind, I saw something else back when I was rechecking things. And now I'm suspecting RCE again a bit more.

Did I ask about this day 1? I don't really remember.

[RCEnigma]

What do you mean?

[RCEnigma]

What's your reasoning for Wagon and NaCl being a likely scum team?

Same reason I think Nacl + Teacher is plausible. Low amount of meaningful interaction, but in different ways if that makes sense. I'm isoing Teacher now which I will touch on what I mean a little bit.

Could you explain what the difference(s) is/are? You've ISO'd Teacher, but haven't compared him to Wagon all that much.

Haven't gotten around to wagon yet. Generally scum are honest, which is an oxymoron but it fits. As far as newbie queue associations scum will null or scumread their partners without really applying pressure there or only on the surface. It's why you want to establish hard stances. Forced conflict can be good for this.

Though neither have interacted much with Nacl that I recall, Teacher has maintained that salt is town. Don't think wagon has mentioned him much but has given content for most of the rest of the playerlist and/or had interactions that don't generally happen between partners like Wagons interactions with Ico and teacher late on day 1.

Bussing isn't really necessary and less attention to a partner is good so that's not like a hard rule it anything which makes both worlds viable.

Teacher and you have the signs of partner interactions but it's kind of one dimensional which reads as intentional possibly.

This? I just meant scum within the newbie queue don't have motivation to hard buss or hard defend. Scum like to scumread scum, or at least point out how their partners aren't being town. In wagons case it's why I can see them partnered with Nacl. Scum-nullread but no real push there.

[RCEnigma]

Oh, no. Scum!Wagon is a liar.

[RCEnigma]

I trusted you in jazz. I think?

[RCEnigma]

Maybe liar is the wrong word, deceitful. But same implication.

Jazz is a normal game that wagon was scum in. Nancy is another player on site, if you find yourself getting into theme games you will run into her at some point.

[RCEnigma]

Semantics, why is it an issue?

[RCEnigma]

It's implied when you role scum.

[RCEnigma]

That my theory on you + nacl wasn't some meta tell where you explicitly tell the truth as scum.

[RCEnigma]

How do you fancy a juicy hammer opportunity?
VOTE: Teacher L-1.

[RCEnigma]

Well. I appreciate your honesty at least!

[RCEnigma]

Town point for Kaniffe.

[RCEnigma]

@RC
First you say I'm towncleared because of the rep out...
And later you're having doubts about me.
What's up with that?

You had a scummy rep in. We talked about it already. The game that I linked were the tell was used was Jazz, Wagon was in that game. I was townreading both of the slots that repped out but none of the players that repped in. I just gave them a pass because of the original slots which isn't generally good play and not an example of want to set.

So yes I town read Cyrus a ton, but I'm not going to ignore your posts or neglect to sort you.

[RCEnigma]

We discussed it end of day 1. Your catchup wasn't revolutionary or anything. The Amished tell was weird and I've been sketched out over that but Cyrus play and the events leading up to his replace out are town indicative.

Are you fighting against my townread or what? I don't really get it.

[RCEnigma]

Introduction and Tips

Thanks to Irrelephant11 and others for their contributions to these tips.

Here are some helpful links (a lot of them from our helpful wiki):

-> Forum Rules and Guidelines
-> The Glossary
-> Commonly Used Abbreviations
-> The Newbie Guide
-> Articles on How to Play Well (be sure to check the dates these were written/updated, as good advice changes over time)

Key Concepts and Tips

Activity

Try to check in at least once a day.

Besides the activity requirements listed in the moderator's original post, it's just necessary for a fun and healthy game that everyone

plays

. If you post very rarely, or only post a little bit at a time, you may get scumread for lurking. Even if you are not scumread for it, what's the fun in playing a game where multiple people are hardly participating?

Site Meta

Meta is the description of how people on Mafiascum like to play mafia. Things can be different on other online mafia sites, or if you play IRL, so it's good to know what's expected of you on this site. These aren't "rules", per se, but if you don't follow these guidelines it is likely things will go poorly for you on MS. Some examples are...

Random Voting Stage (RVS)

Games on MafiaScum almost always begin with what we call the Random Voting Stage (RVS). At this point in the game, we are in a low information game state (except the mafia, which know everyone’s alignment). As a way to provoke reaction, start a discussion, and try to determine alignment, people will usually vote for non-serious reasons. As the discussion progresses, we will eventually get the game moving and progress out of RVS.

Voting, L-x, and Hammers

L-x is a way to convey how far away a player is away from a lynch. For example, you should always announce that you are putting someone at L-1 (1 vote away from a lynch) so that someone doesn’t come along and accidentally vote for that players lynch. This also prevents Mafia-aligned players from coming along and placing the final vote to lynch (“hammer”) and claiming ignorance about doing so. You may also see L-2 and L-3 (2 votes away from a lynch and 3 votes away from a lynch, respectively).

Before you hammer a player, state your intent to hammer (usually done in bold) and ask the player to claim their role. This is done to prevent power roles from being lynched, and can sometimes get Mafia-aligned players to be caught (via counter claiming). It's best to then allow other players to react and discuss the claim before hammering.

Claiming Your Role

It is almost always best to not claim your role unless you are at L-1 and have been asked to claim as part of an “intent to hammer.” This is because, as a town power role (“PR”), if you out prematurely, you are likely to be night-killed (“NK’d”). As a Vanilla Townie (“VT”), claiming early helps the mafia team narrow down the setup and possible PR candidates. An exception to this would be if a mafia player claimed your role, claiming early to counter the false claim (“CC”) would out the mafia player, and would be a benefit to the town.

Do not fake claim a power role as town!

While it may help you avoid getting lynched, you might cause a real PR to out themselves by counter claiming - then the mafia will know who the PR is, and you will probably get lynched for lying to town. Feel free to fake a claim as scum, though, if you think it would help.

LyLo

LyLo is the shortened representation of “lynch or lose.” LyLo in the Newbie Queue is when there are 3 remaining players, 2 of which are town and 1 is mafia; or when there are 5 remaining players, 3 of which are town and 2 are mafia. It is important in these situations that the town aligned players do not carelessly vote like is done during RVS or early days, as the mafia player(s) can organize and instantly provide the necessary votes to lynch (“quickhammer”) and win the game.

Conclusion

Mafia is hard!

As town, it can be hard to figure things out, and stressful when people think you're scum.

That's okay!

Just share your thoughts on who you think is scum as they come to you, and don't be afraid to change your mind. As scum, it can be hard to lie convincingly, and stressful when people think you're scum. Don't let that scare you! Try to think of what you would post if you were town, and don't be afraid to "change your mind".

This is a game.

Have fun!

[RCEnigma]

There are a few more mafia theory articles and common tell articles that are good learning tools in the wiki. Experience is probably the best way to learn however.

[RCEnigma]

I'm likely not giving a readslist that's particularly honest. So it's harder for scum to make an accurate nk. Err maybe impactful is the better word. If teacher is today's lynch and I'm alive I'll readslist tomorrow.

[RCEnigma]

Sell me on teacher?

Teacher bad, RC good.

[RCEnigma]

Sell me on teacher?

i think most people are set in 1 scum in RCE and teacher, and RCE "knows" he is town so hes voting teacher?

Fmpov there is 1 in wagon/Teacher. Besides teachers recent apathy I've outlined his posts and ideas I've found issue with, his likely associations, possible motives, and overall tone.

If you need more than that, I don't really have it.

[RCEnigma]

We discussed it end of day 1. Your catchup wasn't revolutionary or anything. The Amished tell was weird and I've been sketched out over that but Cyrus play and the events leading up to his replace out are town indicative.

Are you fighting against my townread or what? I don't really get it.

No; I just saw something I thought was weird and asked about it.
Is that not how one should play mafia?

That's fine but we already had the discussion on why. Which makes it seem like you aren't really taking my posts in. Which is fine I wouldn't want to listen to me talk either.

[RCEnigma]

To be clear, there is a CC in 8/9 setups if this is a fakeclaim. Cop, Neap, and JK are all counterclaims.

I don't get this

teachers claim is probably real. only time where you can get away with JK fakeclaim is setup C3

How can you get away with JK fakeclaim when there's a Doctor and a Tracker in C3?

8 CCs because Neap, Cop, and JK can all CC a JK claim.

they get away with it in Tracker Doc because neither is going to CC if they are a compatible match with JK.

possible JK combos

JK Doc
JK Tracker
JK VT

so Doc Tracker wouldnt CC

There are no setups with Jk + neap or cop and any setup with a JK counterclaims here. But town doesn't know the setup so doc/tracker wouldn't know if there is a jk or not.

[RCEnigma]

I'd like to add I 100% would have CC'd Teacher here as scum since I made it a 1v1 anyway. I kinda dislike emps post-Teacher claim but eh.

The claim explains why I found Teacher offmeta and I tunneled myself into scumreading most of his posts plus the omgus.

VOTE: nacl

If Nacl is town I think it makes it likely Holden + emps? I'd have to look at the voting but I don't think I like Kaniffe with either of them. Holden defending me here is +town if I don't go down. Wagon isn't outside of their scum range but falls on the town side.

Caveat being I know I'm town here and the confirm is pushing for my lynch so I know it's safe for scum to say the lynch is bad and vote anyways. I guess this was a long way of saying I'm suspicious of pretty much everyone.

[RCEnigma]

Felt like lining up lynches, the readslist thing felt the same way but to a lesser degree. It's part of why I opted out of giving one.

[RCEnigma]

I still approve of flipping Nacl after my flip.

[RCEnigma]

More info comes out tomorrow so I mean yeah it could change. But if I had a Venge right now.

[RCEnigma]

Yes, both were removed.

I think the scumteam did great despite a loss. Even up until Kaniffe's Lynch I was inclined to defend them. Emps day 1 was well played I just think the V/La and insistence on getting a group consensus before pushing were the only things that really tripped him out/ pointed towards scum. Holden and Cyrus bleeding town is rough for the scumteam and so was Teacher's save (well placed).

I think it would have played out better if you deflected away from teachers wagon heavily once you had the information that he made the save. Even if you get pushed as an associate it looks good on you once Teacher is flipped and Holden is still a question mark.