Newbie 1941 - Game over
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Voilà! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified, and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin van-guarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition.
The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous.
Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose, so let me simply add that it is my very good honor to meet you and you may call me, The Real RC.-
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Everything outside of newbie queue is going to be a culture shock if you assume town won't quickhammer.In post 32, emps wrote:
Im askingm what do you think wouldnt make uou fly under the radar? Town!cyrus should have no issue with answering this question.In post 29, cyrus62 wrote:i guse if i was scum i really would want to try to to act the same way as i do as town im just saying would i fly under the radar like that
No sensible town would quick hammer, and no sensible scum would quick hammer(except for LyLo) but D1 aint LyLo pal.In post 31, cyrus62 wrote:the 4th vote is what i meant because scum would do that and hope that some one will hammer and then say they quick hammer d and make town look bad as to hope to get the town lynched the next day-
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10 pages down
Cyrus town
Holden, emps light leans
Kaniffe, Teacher, Nacl, jackal null
Krazy isnt really null at this point but equal parts scum/town lean. Holden pushing on Krazy looks good and it's exactly where I would have pushed for 1 specific thing that pinged me out. Our reads are pretty similar early game though so that's a thing.-
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Only 10 pages in so...0.In post 1267, Wagonomics wrote:How many wagon coins would you like to invest into holden and emps town?-
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What makes it a scummy statement?In post 1246, Kaniffee wrote:
Red had always been a bit of a wild card to me, and it's been hard to tell what's townie, what's scummy, and what's just NAI playstyle when it comes to him.In post 1245, NaCl wrote: @Kanifee, can you tell me what you think of Red?
As for what happened these last few pages besides the obvious there was one post that stuck out to me by them.
That just seems very weird to say.In post 1212, RedFlavor wrote:Cyrus it's ok to sheep your townreads
Maybe it's some weird strategy thing, but at face value that seems scummy to me.
Also he never answered my question about what a scumclaim even is, and I'm still wondering.
Overall though at least through July 4th I'm willing to wait and see what the replacements bring.-
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Now, I'll admit I'm 100% biased here. Understandably. But do you feel that way because red had you as their number 1 fos and/or were trying you to Ico?In post 1254, teacher wrote:
I’m not. I’m seeing weak wagon joins, very different personality than the game you shared and pocketing of Cyrus. Want to convince me?In post 1249, Wagonomics wrote:
why lynch red slot? I'm feeling town there pretty wellIn post 1241, teacher wrote:lynch red for great justice.
I can provide my interpretation of what happened, but I would suggest we move on. I dont think it is alignment indicative for any of the slots.
Also, to show my age and lack of hipness, what is ngl? I see it a lot and have an atmospheric meaning but not an actual one.
Just on a quick RF iso my slot pushed Ico pretty hard, especially recently. I don't think "If Ico flips town Lynch me next" is really weak wagoin joining. You could argue it's posturing but I'd obviously argue back.
Also as we both know, pocketing is not a scum exclusive action and with Cyrus bleeding town I think it's a pretty obvious choice to townlock that slot.
I'm assuming Ico was let off the hook for claiming VT? I haven't gotten this far I've seen it referenced as well as a VT claim from Cyrus. Which happened first?-
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In the Interest of transparency, im likely not moving my vote from Ico. Going anywhere outside of the already claimed VTs risks outing PRs. Also it's likely myself or Spangled end up being the nk. (Spangled should be pretty towncleared on play plus the rep out.) And I have the potential to lock the town up given enough time, from a scum perspective it's easier to cut me off with no momentum.-
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If only this wasn't newbie queue...In post 1291, emps wrote:Hi I'm back, btw Ico is at L-1.-
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I probably would have hammered and read up in the night. But I like to set a better example in this queue and I don't have my bearings yet.In post 1295, Spangled wrote:
What do you mean by that?In post 1293, RCEnigma wrote:
If only this wasn't newbie queue...In post 1291, emps wrote:Hi I'm back, btw Ico is at L-1.
Quick note, I'm trying to decide if allowing emps to lead the town up to the point I've read is SE scum indicative or not.-
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So up to page 20 and I feel emps is tunneled on Cyrus at this point. Cyrus is well within his right to assume scum is on his wagon (that is a logical conclusion for town to come to. Not to play the association game preflip but let's play the association game.
For Cyrus to be scum here he would have to have a partner in myself, Kaniffe, Teacher, or Wagon.
Fmpov (From my point of view) - I know Red/RC + Cyrus is never a team. I shouldn't really be the one explaining this but the hard pocket and the pushback coming from the recipient, Cyrus, isn't an S/S interaction.
Teacher- umm...at this point it's plausible that he voted Cyrus to L-1 to distance before he backtracked. Admittedly I don't have a strong read on Teacher at this point in the thread.
Wagon- Extremely passive while this is playing out, I wouldn't expect Krazy to let a partner be run up if it doesn't alter the game state in a scum favorable way. That's kind of convoluted yes I know.
Kaniffe- the most likely partner with a Scum!Cyrus but Kaniffe's Iso is pretty barren at this point. I'll come back to this when I have a better read on Kaniffe as a whole.
However I think the lack of any Cyrus defense is telling. It's suboptimal for scum to wait on town to attempt defending one of them. If I were a betting man I'd put like... Idk 90 wagoncoins on Cyrus!Town.-
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Caught up, but it feels super uneventful. I've come to the conclusion not all of the SEs are town and my priority sorts are wagon/teacher/Ico. Problem for me is that I can both towncase and scumcase each of these slots.
I'm also afraid I'm just going to default to a scumread on Ico out of necessity and the fact he's in that Poe.
I did have a moment in the last 10 pages when wagon and teacher bumped heads that made me think "This definitely isn't TvT" but the conflict just disappeared and I'm still scratching my head.-
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Oh fair enough, that makes sense actually.In post 1320, HoldenGolden wrote:
That's one of my posts he failed to correctly quote in response to cyrus question iirc.In post 1317, RCEnigma wrote:What is 552 about? The pov switch is weird. Really weird, how did that not give anyone the heebie jeebies?
That's why the rest of that post is my posts quoted lol.-
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That was RCEnigma's first thought yes.In post 1319, Wagonomics wrote:
What you think his partner wrote it and he copy/pasted from scum pt? Yeah it is weird to write about yourself in third person, wagonomics said to the town.In post 1317, RCEnigma wrote:What is 552 about? The pov switch is weird. Really weird, how did that not give anyone the heebie jeebies?-
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In post 998, teacher wrote:
This is kinda a weird thing to say. Like Ive only been mislynched twice in my 20ish games - once at lylo (ahem),In post 994, Wagonomics wrote:that's mostly just because he is extremely hard to read and for that reason easy for scum to push for mislynches.[Deleted due to discussion of ongoing games]. SO I dont think Im an easy mislynch push? And I think I remember you saying in that lylo game that I am never lhf. So Im missing something.In post 1012, teacher wrote:
Sure, but (a) that doesnt mean you didnt think it, so that's an odd dodge, and (b) that still ignores the lack of mislynches on me. I mean, I change my game to suit my needs with the best of them, but I dont think Im ever an easy lynch so Im asking you to show your work.In post 1011, Wagonomics wrote:
I was scum that gameIn post 998, teacher wrote:
This is kinda a weird thing to say. Like Ive only been mislynched twice in my 20ish games - once at lylo (ahem), and once as a counterclaimed PR where I had been playing semi-intentionally scummy. SO I dont think Im an easy mislynch push? And I think I remember you saying in that lylo game that I am never lhf. So Im missing something.In post 994, Wagonomics wrote:that's mostly just because he is extremely hard to read and for that reason easy for scum to push for mislynches.In post 1019, Wagonomics wrote:
I didn't say you were an easy lynch I said you were an easy push. Actually you being a hard lynch is why you are a good scum push cause they can just say you're scummy all game to present the appearance of solving without having to deal with your greenflip. Remember that game I said you were "never lhf" I also spent half the game shading you and got townread for itIn post 1012, teacher wrote:
Sure, but (a) that doesnt mean you didnt think it, so that's an odd dodge, and (b) that still ignores the lack of mislynches on me. I mean, I change my game to suit my needs with the best of them, but I dont think Im ever an easy lynch so Im asking you to show your work.In post 1011, Wagonomics wrote:
I was scum that gameIn post 998, teacher wrote:
This is kinda a weird thing to say. Like Ive only been mislynched twice in my 20ish games - once at lylo (ahem), and once as a counterclaimed PR where I had been playing semi-intentionally scummy. SO I dont think Im an easy mislynch push? And I think I remember you saying in that lylo game that I am never lhf. So Im missing something.In post 994, Wagonomics wrote:that's mostly just because he is extremely hard to read and for that reason easy for scum to push for mislynches.In post 1021, teacher wrote:Towncore: Emps, Holden, NaCl
Leantown: Kaniffee, Ico
Cant read him if you paid me money: Cyrus
Scumleans: Wagon, Red-
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It's scum indicative more often than town indicative.In post 1326, HoldenGolden wrote:UNVOTE: Cyrus/Springfleg dude
With all the replacements and the nature behind this slot in particular, I'm going to redraw my vote right now before heading into ISOs land. I will say it is a werid (non AI) feeling having the person who replaced into your top scum slot also called the slot scum.-
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Example of Elsa Jay using this tactic as scum here
As well as using it myself here
Haven't seen it used by town. Don't think reading your own slot is a priority for a town rep in, you don't have to sort yourself so it's more or less busywork.
Why does scum use this tell? I'm not really sure, maybe to project how "objectively" they're reading the game if they are including their own slot. Or to seem more involved in gamesolving. But again they don't have to solve their own slot.-
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Ah sorry, bad grammar.In post 1304, RCEnigma wrote:I'm not as caught up as you are, however I'm not as big a fan of emps as my predecessor.
By that I meant I didn't have Emps as high a townread as my predecessor (Red) had him.-
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If you use the post tags [post]Post #[./.post] it will take you directly there which is what I think Teacher meant.
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With Kaniffe, I didn't double check the work. But I was already reading through so kind of familiar with what posts are what. It's not really alignment indicative.In post 1366, Spangled wrote:
Low effort defending yourself? Seriously? I don't know if that's scummy (maybe you know you can't defend yourself or something...?) or just low-effort town.In post 1355, Kaniffee wrote:
I have given reasons 1047 and 579.In post 1346, teacher wrote:Kaniffee, when I asked to rap with you I was asking you to explain why you are scum on my slot. You’ve repeatedly expressed suspicious, but not reasons. I want to see how you think a little more.
As for defense @spangled I really don't feel like looking through all the posts or assuming which ones you mentioned refer to me (since you didn't attach names to some).-
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It happens when town are having trouble finding each other, scum is flying under the radar, or scum is content with the gamestate.In post 1384, NaCl wrote:And now I'm thinking that I should really think before I post because now it has me doubting my previous statement. It only works if you two are scum together, and looking at it, it's more likely that Wagon was just more suspicious of Ico. I'm just somewhat put off by the upcoming lynch, it felt too quiet.
So yes it is very possible Ico flips town. But he has scum equity and is low risk via the VT claim. As opposed to running up another slot close deadline that could potentially be a PR and scrambling to get another wagon in. A Lynch is significantly better than not having one at all.-
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Jk would also be targeting someone they assume to be scum over someone they townread that could possibly be blocking a PR.In post 1422, emps wrote:
because the JK can be targetedIn post 1420, Kaniffee wrote:Why is it more likely? Isn't the killer and the killed both 1/8 chance of hitting individually?-
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It puts us in evens but that's about it.In post 1425, Spangled wrote:
They could have done that to let us WIFOM.In post 1415, NaCl wrote:Yeah, are you saying the mafia passed on their kill, then?
...But it would be a suboptimal strategy, wouldn't it?
They don't really gain anything out of it... I wouldn't think...
Since lack of a nightkill doesn't really change who we decide to lynch.
I don't think.-
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Another note, If wagon is scum then Nacl is the likeliest partner. I'm still adamant there is 1 between wagon/Teacher which means there is 1 between Kaniffe/Nacl. That's kind of redeeming for Teacher but Nacl could also be a partner, less so than Wagon/Nacl.
I don't see Teacher/Kaniffe bussing this hard given Kaniffe's low experience and Teachers playstyle. That said it's not like Teacher has really committed to pushing Kaniffe at any point.-
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Same reason I think Nacl + Teacher is plausible. Low amount of meaningful interaction, but in different ways if that makes sense. I'm isoing Teacher now which I will touch on what I mean a little bit.In post 1555, Kaniffee wrote:What's your reasoning for Wagon and NaCl being a likely scum team?-
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Teacher I feel like you are kind of passive and reactive this game. At first I was townreading it. I thought that it could be that you were just allowing the new players space to get their legs under them so that the SEs weren't bearing over them. I think I held that belief till the comments on the gamestate. Is it wrong to think that would have been a good opportunity to set the game on the right track if you felt that it was becoming stale?-
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Why is that? I actually feel the opposite way. I think Cyrus was the obvtown and Spangleds entrance kind of made me step back.In post 1510, HoldenGolden wrote:@NaCl
That's fair I suppose. I think spangled cleared up some of my suspicions on the cyrus slot, so I'm not super worried about him being on the wagon with me. I can understand a RC lynch as well.
A little bit off topic, but I have a read I'm a bit wary of if i may ask you for your opinion. What do you make of emps slowdown of posts? It worries me a bit, but I still find his day one play townie-
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I can in fact confirm we do not share a pt.In post 1535, Wagonomics wrote:I feel like it's pretty obvious that Cyrus and RedFlavor did not share a PT with daytalk lol
...Or maybe we're masons *Area 51 theme intensifies*-
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I would have smooch Wagon even if you didn't ship it.In post 1548, HoldenGolden wrote:Ahh, this is what I like to see. Quality discussion!
And all it took was creeping out the thread.
I actually would to know as well Emps. Actually quite like this point here.In post 1542, Wagonomics wrote:You know people's reads change all the time but it's weird to me that basically all of your reads have hard 180'd over the course of two largely uneventful days emps
Are we talking day 1 to day 2 read flips or solely flipping during day 2?-
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EbwopIn post 1564, RCEnigma wrote:
I would have smooched Wagon (with consent) even if you didn't ship it.In post 1548, HoldenGolden wrote:Ahh, this is what I like to see. Quality discussion!
And all it took was creeping out the thread.
I actually would to know as well Emps. Actually quite like this point here.In post 1542, Wagonomics wrote:You know people's reads change all the time but it's weird to me that basically all of your reads have hard 180'd over the course of two largely uneventful days emps
Are we talking day 1 to day 2 read flips or solely flipping during day 2?-
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Haven't gotten around to wagon yet. Generally scum are honest, which is an oxymoron but it fits. As far as newbie queue associations scum will null or scumread their partners without really applying pressure there or only on the surface. It's why you want to establish hard stances. Forced conflict can be good for this.In post 1576, Kaniffee wrote:
Could you explain what the difference(s) is/are? You've ISO'd Teacher, but haven't compared him to Wagon all that much.In post 1558, RCEnigma wrote:
Same reason I think Nacl + Teacher is plausible. Low amount of meaningful interaction, but in different ways if that makes sense. I'm isoing Teacher now which I will touch on what I mean a little bit.In post 1555, Kaniffee wrote:What's your reasoning for Wagon and NaCl being a likely scum team?
Though neither have interacted much with Nacl that I recall, Teacher has maintained that salt is town. Don't think wagon has mentioned him much but has given content for most of the rest of the playerlist and/or had interactions that don't generally happen between partners like Wagons interactions with Ico and teacher late on day 1.
Bussing isn't really necessary and less attention to a partner is good so that's not like a hard rule it anything which makes both worlds viable.
Teacher and you have the signs of partner interactions but it's kind of one dimensional which reads as intentional possibly.-
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Ehh this feels kind of angled in a bad way. I feel like that would apply mostly to a newbie + newbie scum team or newbie + inactive se. Like actually inactive not lurking. The kill being blocked isn't that bad for scum unless they push specifically on the town protect and force a claim.In post 1582, Wagonomics wrote:Part of me thinks he is positioned like scum at end of day 1 and the level of energy in his play today about matches what I'd expect from scum given the game state-
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So I've never played with Scum! Teacher. If I had to guess, this would be the game. I'm finding I'm not agreeing with him generally or with his pushes plus his thought process is usually well articulated and clear which I don't feel is the case here.
My reservation: I'm struggling with the read there as I'm not sure Teacher pushes on me like this as scum unless the mislynch scum had lined up was taken off the table via save or spewed town early today.
On the other hand, Teacher flipping scum today would solve the game if there was a save on anyone besides me. Since Teacher/Wagon isn't S/S and I *should* be spewed town on a red flip. Plus protective and their confirmed.
That's a 3 a.m thought and doesn't include anything nightkill related though.-
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Did I ask about this day 1? I don't really remember.In post 1381, NaCl wrote:Actually, never mind, I saw something else back when I was rechecking things. And now I'm suspecting RCE again a bit more.-
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This? I just meant scum within the newbie queue don't have motivation to hard buss or hard defend. Scum like to scumread scum, or at least point out how their partners aren't being town. In wagons case it's why I can see them partnered with Nacl. Scum-nullread but no real push there.In post 1580, RCEnigma wrote:
Haven't gotten around to wagon yet. Generally scum are honest, which is an oxymoron but it fits. As far as newbie queue associations scum will null or scumread their partners without really applying pressure there or only on the surface. It's why you want to establish hard stances. Forced conflict can be good for this.In post 1576, Kaniffee wrote:
Could you explain what the difference(s) is/are? You've ISO'd Teacher, but haven't compared him to Wagon all that much.In post 1558, RCEnigma wrote:
Same reason I think Nacl + Teacher is plausible. Low amount of meaningful interaction, but in different ways if that makes sense. I'm isoing Teacher now which I will touch on what I mean a little bit.In post 1555, Kaniffee wrote:What's your reasoning for Wagon and NaCl being a likely scum team?
Though neither have interacted much with Nacl that I recall, Teacher has maintained that salt is town. Don't think wagon has mentioned him much but has given content for most of the rest of the playerlist and/or had interactions that don't generally happen between partners like Wagons interactions with Ico and teacher late on day 1.
Bussing isn't really necessary and less attention to a partner is good so that's not like a hard rule it anything which makes both worlds viable.
Teacher and you have the signs of partner interactions but it's kind of one dimensional which reads as intentional possibly.-
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