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1. What kind of experience do you have with Mafia?
2. How did you find out/get into MafiaScum?
3. How do you scumread people?
4. How do you townread people?
5. How do you play as town?
6. How do you play as scum?
1. I've played irl every so often, and I'm in an ongoing game offsite that's my first ever not irl.
2. Someone from the offsite game plays here and they invited me to the 81 person ONUW game. So I joined and played that.
3-4. I tend to go mostly based on the vibes I get to begin with. I just remember that Scum has to lie, and town doesn't unless PR. So I guess I go off whether I think people are being honest with their posts which in turn determines the vibes I get from them.
5-6. Yeah this question is kinda dumb to answer. I don't have enough experience to know for sure how I would play differently as town or scum. And I'm not gonna bother trying to predict it. I post when I can, and contribute what I think would be useful.
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Post #329 (isolation #2) » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:43 pm
Postby Kaniffee »
And now the page count has doubled. Yipee!
I've read through everything, but it hasn't really processed yet. I'll try to reread stuff and do some reads/leans on people later tonight.
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Post #458 (isolation #3) » Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:09 pm
Postby Kaniffee »
Sorry. I was busy with a family dinner because it's the last one with my grandparents before they leave tomorrow. I have been reading stuff, but it takes longer because I've gotten confused by all the acronyms since I'm not quite used to them yet. I'll be going through this, and I'll post my leans/reads before I go to bed.
It’s to start newb games as Rapidly as possible. Don’t treat SEs any differently. Like you Already have a lot of the theory down, which is our Primary purpose- to model how experienced players would play and read. We also should help with Coding and other issues. Speaking of, I would still love for you to get an avi so I can Mobile recognize your posts.
Also apologies In advance for the random typos and stuff I inject from mobile (eg schlick instead of schtick)- fat Fingers “ittle screen.
Currently on page 10 of reread going in and out of consciousness. I'm really tired. I don't mean to seem lurky, but it's not my fault there are 19 plus pages of this to go through on the first literal day. Not just day one in game but the the first physical day.
Also not game specific aside, but kind of related: Is it worthwile for me to V/LA if I'm still able to post dailyish? I went into this site thinking posting a few times a day would be reasonable, but now this game seems really active to the point where it's just too much for me to go through. Is this typical for games on here? Like should I state V/LA even though for me this amount of posting seems normal, but for everyone else it looks lurky that I'm "only" posting a few times a day?
I'm going to bed because it's almost midnight and I need to sleep. Sorry I couldn't do reads on anyone really for this post.
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Post #474 (isolation #5) » Wed Jun 26, 2019 7:47 pm
Postby Kaniffee »
oh I think I was planning on responding to that quote, in my big post but I was in quick reply so I didn't see that? I don't know what I did tbh, but I think I was wondering what avi means?
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Post #486 (isolation #6) » Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:06 am
Postby Kaniffee »
I'll have time to make a more thorough post tonight, but for now I'll say that Cyrus's soft claiming seems like an accident. Like they didn't realize that it would be considered a soft claim as a power role because they're new, and they really are just a Vanilla Townie.
In post 379, cyrus62 wrote:laughs i thought i teased you enough to where you knew i wasn't pocketing holdem can you put it back to l1 so
i can clam and finally answer emps questions because i didnt wantg to answer queston 5 and 6 cuse i thought i would out my self but after i clame i can out my self
This last part kinda seems like they just want to follow the "rules" of L-1. That's how it reads to me. I don't think this was intended as a softclaim PR.
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Post #490 (isolation #7) » Thu Jun 27, 2019 3:22 am
Postby Kaniffee »
I think in that moment saying either doc or cop would've been reasonable. To me there's no reason why cop and why not doc. It could've been either for town!Cyrus.
With the second point are you implying that a doctor would try to protect Cyrus(assuming there is one)?
In post 490, Kaniffee wrote:I think in that moment saying either doc or cop would've been reasonable. To me there's no reason why cop and why not doc. It could've been either for town!Cyrus.
With the second point are you implying that a doctor would try to protect Cyrus(assuming there is one)?
keep in mind i was reading a book and then notist this queston i was hoping that since every one thought i soft pr that if i draw the night kill that the doc might save me if there was one
Hmm okay. So at this point either you actually are the cop or you're not the cop (because you're either scum or vt). No matter which way you slice it this was really bad strategy. However it seems more like you're panicking because you don't want to be lynched or NK then like you're actually a cop. I guess this is more scummy or PR than not, but considering how nervous you've been throughout this game I think you would do this as a vt too. I'm debating voting based on lynch all liars at this point, but I believe you're still L-1, and it seems too early to end the day at this point.
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Post #513 (isolation #9) » Thu Jun 27, 2019 12:58 pm
Postby Kaniffee »
In post 504, NaCl wrote:Kanifee, what changed between 486 and 498? You seem to think Cyrus was a VT initially, but soon after you became willing to lynch him. What changed your mind?
I still think he's town, but his posts are confusing and I don't like how he's obfuscating things. I'm not even quite sure what he's doing, but the whole lying about being pr or not, trying to lure a protective role all of it is just very weird. Even though I think he's a vanilla townie I don't like the way he's lying about stuff. The reason I haven't voted yet (besides it being L-1) is I don't want to vote someone I think is town until I've thought enough about the other players and think through whether they're likely to be scum. If I don't decide on solid scum candidates I may vote for Cyrus, because it'll get rid of someone who uses dishonest play.
So as far as 2nd question goes, I don't have a solid read on anyone but Cyrus yet if that wasn't clear.
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Post #579 (isolation #10) » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:34 pm
Postby Kaniffee »
Okay time to read some people. I ended up just ISOing everyone except when I needed context. Oh and for Emps I gave up on rereading everything.
Wagonomics: Reads town to me. Overall seemed very genuine in their posts, and nothing jumped out as scummy to me.
Red Flavor: Null. Posts are from a playing style that I just don't have much context for, so it's hard for me to interpret specific things as being scummy or townie.
Emps: Town/null. Emps has posted alot, and people have made good arguments for why that may be scummy, townie, or NAI. At this point I don't have the energy to decipher 200 posts, but the more recent ones seem townie, so that's what I'm going with for now.
Holden: Town lean. Can be somewhat aggressive in interactions, but it seems to be coming from someone who's town, and is just inexperienced at going about finding scum. Also the joking tone seems pretty natural and feels town to me. Only a lean because some of his logic isn't adding up for me right now. Could be inexperience, could be slightly scummy, but otherwise nothing weird with his play so far.
cyrus: Town. See post 486 498 and 513 I guess, since I don't feel like retyping (Idk if the links just show up or I have to do something, but I'll try to do that if this doesn't work).
NaCl: Town. His posts seem town motivated, and the way he asks questions I get the vibe that he geuinely wants to know and cares about using good reasoning to find scum.
Teacher: Weak scum lean. Looking through it seems a lot of his posts are general strategy advice that are intended to appear as furthering the game without actually. I feel like strategy would be very NAI in a newbie game when there's less meta knowledge, so the focus on it seems like a distraction. There does seem to be some talk of players he suspects with some reasoning, so that's why it's only a weak lean.
Jackal: Scum lean. Vote for Cyrus seemed sheepy, especially how he just vaguely says it's because of the recent pages instead of actually writing out his own reasons.
Responses to peoples questions under spoiler
Spoiler:
In post 516, NaCl wrote:Oops, my question for Kaniffee came out wrong. "Should be: Why do you think Cyrus is town? And more importantly, why don't you have a read on anyone else?"
At that point I decided to focus my time to read Cyrus because he's the one at L-1, so I figured my contributions were more important there first. Here's my reads on everyone else. I suppose if going by proper terminology some are reads and others are just leans, but it's what I got.
I will probably die for this read because if I am right and I survive, it will be bad for scum.[/quote]
No I'm just town who doesn't know what to contribute to a 22 page game, and doesn't have that much time to. I like to think through what I post, and that takes time. At that point I didn't make game posts because I hadn't thought through it enough to feel confident in my opinions.
I'm confused. I'm a newbie. Jackal's SE. Were you saying that Jackal has me as a newbie partner or that I have Jackal as a fellow newbie partner?
The last line doesn't really make sense. Especially with you saying it outright, there's a certain WIFOM created. Now Scum might NK you to make me look bad because you said this. I don't think you being NKed or not will be able to have any indication of alignment for anyone.
Goodnight y'all it's after midnight, so I won't be responding til I wake up at least. I'll probably vote tomorrow too. I wanna sleep on all of this before deciding.
pedit: I see y'all discussing Holden. I don't think what you've pointed out indicates anything scummy, so this doesn't change my read on him.
pedit2: I feel like there's some inbetween post I'm missing where Cyrus accuses emps of being a cop or something? I don't have time to care, so I'll parse through that tomorrow
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Post #665 (isolation #11) » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:40 am
Postby Kaniffee »
@Teacher I have some time right now for around an hour and a half. Probably the things I'm confused about are post formatting things like how quote lists work and links. I don't see myself ever making that many posts per day because I like to think through them. And I have limited time to do so. I don't know what else exactly you wanted out of me by voting for me, but that's where I'm at right now.
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Post #668 (isolation #12) » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:52 am
Postby Kaniffee »
EBWOP: Just realized there was a major quote piece missing in my post last night.
In post 522, cyrus62 wrote:kanife how do you repond to red calling you scum??
In post 483, RedFlavor wrote:Kaniffe has literaly no posts about the game atm. I think they are scum who does not know how to fake contribution. And having a newbie partner makes more sense with this. Which is Jackal I'm thinking atm.
I will probably die for this read because if I am right and I survive, it will be bad for scum.
No I'm just town who doesn't know what to contribute to a 22 page game, and doesn't have that much time to. I like to think through what I post, and that takes time. At that point I didn't make game posts because I hadn't thought through it enough to feel confident in my opinions.
I'm confused. I'm a newbie. Jackal's SE. Were you saying that Jackal has me as a newbie partner or that I have Jackal as a fellow newbie partner?
The last line doesn't really make sense. Especially with you saying it outright, there's a certain WIFOM created. Now Scum might NK you to make me look bad because you said this. I don't think you being NKed or not will be able to have any indication of alignment for anyone.
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Post #670 (isolation #13) » Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:59 am
Postby Kaniffee »
I mainly have Holden higher because it was a lot easier to go through his posts and form an opinion on him. Emps just has so many. It's hard to make sense of it all. I think he's probably town, but I'm leaving it at town/null for now until I really get time to go through his posts, likely this weekend.
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Post #678 (isolation #16) » Fri Jun 28, 2019 7:27 am
Postby Kaniffee »
In post 675, NaCl wrote:
@everyone Could someone who has a townread on Wagonomics help explain it to me? I can't quite see it.
For the most part I was reading based on what he
had
said. When I ISO'd him nothing he said seemed very scummy to me. He seemed reasonably active early on, so I don't think I noticed his inactivity at first, but now it's at the point of warranting a prod, so until he says more I'm weakening mine to town lean.
Besides Holden's argument which seemed like a joke anyway I've not seen many arguments for why wagon would be scum, besides the inactivity.
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Post #681 (isolation #17) » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:43 am
Postby Kaniffee »
Wagonomics wrote:I'm not "at the point of warranting a prod"?
Your last post before this one was more than a day and a half ago. Aren't prods after 36 hours of no posting? Maybe it wasn't quite at that point when I posted, but it was pretty close.
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Post #729 (isolation #18) » Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:40 am
Postby Kaniffee »
The thing about lynching someone who's likely town is sometimes people who are town lie and muddle the game, so ultimately it's easier to solve the game without them. It's not the end of the world to not lynch scum on day 1. And it'll be easier to find scum without him there on day 2. But yeah the main hesitancy I have on voting him is the fact that he seems town, and I'd rather vote for scum if I can. Jackal's slot is my biggest scum lean rn so I want to see what ends up happening with the replacement.
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Post #831 (isolation #19) » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:23 am
Postby Kaniffee »
Sorry was gonna post last night, but I was too exhausted from what came up that day. @Cyrus I don't want you to post less, but If you could start using sentences with periods that would probably cut down on the confusion a lot.
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Post #832 (isolation #20) » Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:34 am
Postby Kaniffee »
In post 782, NaCl wrote:I don't like how this has slowed down a bit. Kaniffee, can you talk about who you think is mafia? Excluding Jackal's slot, I know about your suspicions. But we won't really get much there, so I want to know who you think is the other one.
Hmm yeah my other scum lean is teacher, but I'm not so sure about Jackal and Teacher being in a pair. That may just be because Teacher's harder to read as an SE, so it's still possible. I have a null on Red because while a lot of his posting seems legitimate I definitely get the impression that would look pretty town even when he is scum, so I would sus him more out of POE. I think I'm gonna need to reevaluate you and Wagonomics based on the last few pages so those are potential suspects that I had been reading as town, but I might change my mind about.
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Post #836 (isolation #21) » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:23 am
Postby Kaniffee »
In post 835, Iconeum wrote:I'll be catching up within the next 24 hours and good to go!
If anybody wants to write me a brief TL;DR that's fine ^^
I don't think any TL;DR could possibly be brief unfortunately. Though the first 6-7 pages is just 2 people arguing about the icebreaker questions iirc.
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Post #838 (isolation #22) » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:34 am
Postby Kaniffee »
So I read through Cyrus's long Emps post as way of doing a ISO for him, and all I got out of it was a big townie blur. Upgrading Emps to town lean because it seemed townie, and the "meta" (I'm not sure if it's actual meta when he hasn't played before) suggests that's a normal amount of posting for him.
Reading that ISO oddly enough gave me some insights into Holden that I hadn't thought of before. I feel like I was too quick to judge as town before because he made jokes. I realized that Holden said he came from Town of Salem, and since that's like the jokey 10 minute version of this game, telling jokes just might be his default playstyle, and not necessarily alignment indicative. That's's not enough on its own for me to say Holden's scum, but it definitely makes me a little warier, and I'm gonna go with null for now.
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Post #840 (isolation #23) » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:43 am
Postby Kaniffee »
In post 837, Iconeum wrote:Like, point out the important events? It's just that I sometimes miss stuff.
Claims, L-1 shenanigans, fake hammers, etc?
TL;DR ig
Well Cyrus got to L-1, he soft claimed as PR, and there was a confusing mess of fallout because of that, but it stayed L-1 for awhile. Some people think he's scum for lying, some don't. Iirc that soft claiming bit happens around page 13-14. I seriously doubt you'd be able to miss this though since it takes up 5+ pages.
In post 838, Kaniffee wrote:So I read through Cyrus's long Emps post as way of doing a ISO for him, and all I got out of it was a big townie blur. Upgrading Emps to town lean because it seemed townie, and the "meta" (I'm not sure if it's actual meta when he hasn't played before) suggests that's a normal amount of posting for him.
Reading that ISO oddly enough gave me some insights into Holden that I hadn't thought of before. I feel like I was too quick to judge as town before because he made jokes. I realized that Holden said he came from Town of Salem, and since that's like the jokey 10 minute version of this game, telling jokes just might be his default playstyle, and not necessarily alignment indicative. That's's not enough on its own for me to say Holden's scum, but it definitely makes me a little warier, and I'm gonna go with null for now.
hey i tryd realy realy hard i did not mean for it to get junker up so badly i was trying to say hes super town very super town. like mayor of town.
No need to be defensive it was actually a pretty helpful format to do my Emps catch-up in.
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Post #858 (isolation #28) » Mon Jul 01, 2019 6:09 am
Postby Kaniffee »
Well you've made some good points on Teacher these last couple pages, and that combined with my own suspicions of him seems worthy of a vote. (Sorry in advance if I mess up the formatting because I'm just assuming the white box happens automatically at this point)
VOTE:Teacher
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Post #867 (isolation #32) » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:05 am
Postby Kaniffee »
I guess it was mainly the Cyrus thing in general, but also the part about the Cyrus wagon specifically. Maybe points was the wrong word. Posts about roughly the same point would have been more accurate.
In post 867, Kaniffee wrote:I guess it was mainly the Cyrus thing in general, but also the part about the Cyrus wagon specifically. Maybe points was the wrong word. Posts about roughly the same point would have been more accurate.
I don't like this, you did almost the same thing with offering to lynch Cyrus earlier, what's the difference between your reason and Teacher's? Also, this wagon formed a little bit too quickly, but I suspect this is Cyrus's fault.
Almost being a key word. For one thing
I never voted Cyrus, and specifically said I was hesitant to vote him because I think he's town. The time I said I was considering actually voting Cyrus was back when before I had properly read people. Since then I've been mainly focused on my scum candidates Jackal(now Iconeum) and Teacher.
I find it funny you complained about me slowing the game by not voting, and then I actually do vote and now it's too fast for you?
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Post #948 (isolation #40) » Tue Jul 02, 2019 3:23 pm
Postby Kaniffee »
To be fair it was before official intent.
Also @NaCl I checked your ISO and you're right about not complaining about me specifically, so I must've misremembered what someone else said as you or something.
In post 935, cyrus62 wrote:kanniffee side note i am vt ok i am willing to flip to prove this but my bet is now 50 on teacher and 50 on jackel
This is Cyrus's most recent claim
Right, and then he pulls me out of there in his "four possibility" post, but leans towards Ico/Jackal being right and (NaCl-Holden) scum - option 4. Like how is this clearly town......
Also, this is not relevant to red's case on me, where he says I voted to get Cyrus to claim
and achieved my objective
. I dont see any hard claim from him any where near the time I voted, and shading me for Cyrus deciding to fake-soft-fake-vt at a time where there was no intent is motivated misreading of the game.
In post 379, cyrus62 wrote:laughs i thought i teased you enough to where you knew i wasn't pocketing holdem can you put it back to l1 so i can clam and finally answer emps questions because i didnt wantg to answer queston 5 and 6 cuse i thought i would out my self but after i clame i can out my self
looking back at the original post though it really does look to me like he was just trying to follow "the rules" and everything that came after was a result of people (namely you since you did it first) assuming this was a soft pr. I don't see how this was a soft pr. You just said it was and others followed suit. The more I read through that section the more it looks opportunistic on your part.
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Post #1053 (isolation #45) » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:32 am
Postby Kaniffee »
Well seeing as teacher is unlikely to be lynched, and I'm suspicious of Iconeum too (the interaction with Wagonomics has done nothing to convince me of his townness nor give me real reason to suspect Wagon), I might as well put my vote where it will make a difference. VOTE: Iconeum
Pedit: My understanding is even outing yourself as a vanilla townie is bad on day 1 unless you have to because it helps scum narrow down who's PR. Obviously Cyrus thought he wasn't supposed to claim unless he was L-1.
Also Holden's post was at the same time, but he didn't say that Cyrus was softing.
In post 379, cyrus62 wrote:laughs i thought i teased you enough to where you knew i wasn't pocketing holdem can you put it back to l1 so i can clam and finally answer emps questions because i didnt wantg to answer queston 5 and 6 cuse i thought i would out my self but after i clame i can out my self
What's the point of this?
If your going to write out a post about claiming a role, then why on earth does it matter if I re-vote?
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Post #1235 (isolation #48) » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:31 am
Postby Kaniffee »
Ok then. I was gonna address the 8 pages I missed, but I don't even know where to begin. I guess we'll just wait for replacements. Also @mod do their votes still count or would they be nullified until we get replacements?
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Post #1240 (isolation #49) » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:52 am
Postby Kaniffee »
Well I was on the wagon for Ico, and then 8 pages happened that confused the crap out of me. Iconeum does seem a lot townier in these later posts, and his frustrations with Cyrus seem very genuine to me. So I see Wagon as realistically townie for unvoting when he did, and I feel like there is enough uncertainty now that I can't confidently vote for him either. UNVOTE: until something gets cleared from the rubble of whatever just happened.
And basically @Ico I voted you when I did because of previous suspicions, and the posts at the time did not convince me to change my mind.
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Post #1246 (isolation #50) » Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:07 am
Postby Kaniffee »
In post 1245, NaCl wrote:
@Kanifee, can you tell me what you think of Red?
Red had always been a bit of a wild card to me, and it's been hard to tell what's townie, what's scummy, and what's just NAI playstyle when it comes to him.
As for what happened these last few pages besides the obvious there was one post that stuck out to me by them.
That just seems very weird to say.
Maybe it's some weird strategy thing, but at face value that seems scummy to me.
Also he never answered my question about what a scumclaim even is, and I'm still wondering.
Overall though at least through July 4th I'm willing to wait and see what the replacements bring.
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Post #1271 (isolation #51) » Fri Jul 05, 2019 11:41 am
Postby Kaniffee »
I guess just the idea of sheeping with someone you think is town, is kind of what scum have to do on some level because they know everyone is town, but if town is encouraged to do it too then that's 3+ people acting in a way that benefits scum. Not that voting town is always a bad move, but only doing it to sheep is what jumped out at me. Again, I'm new so there may be some deeper strategy I don't get, but that's why it stood out to me.
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Post #1283 (isolation #52) » Fri Jul 05, 2019 7:05 pm
Postby Kaniffee »
@teacher do you mean literal rapping?
With NaCl i think I read him as town initially, but I've been bit conflicted with his more recent posts. Was planning on doing another iso an resorting based on that.
In post 1271, Kaniffee wrote:I guess just the idea of sheeping with someone you think is town, is kind of what scum have to do on some level because they know everyone is town, but if town is encouraged to do it too then that's 3+ people acting in a way that benefits scum. Not that voting town is always a bad move, but only doing it to sheep is what jumped out at me. Again, I'm new so there may be some deeper strategy I don't get, but that's why it stood out to me.
That first sentence doesn't even make sense. Sheeping your townreads means you're acting in a way you think benefits town, since you should
trust
the person you're townreading.
Oh, maybe you misunderstand the term sheeping. Sheeping means taking someone else's reads for your own; replacing yours with theirs. Not
voting
them.
In the context it seemed more like a vote thing. I thought "sheeping your townreads" meant voting for someone you think is town just because other people are. Guess I'm wrong on that one.
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Post #1314 (isolation #54) » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:39 am
Postby Kaniffee »
In post 1304, RCEnigma wrote:I'm not as caught up as you are, however I'm not as big a fan of emps as my predecessor. I'm actually surprised you are giving him as much wiggle room as you are given its your slot he's pushed a majority of the day and for *generally* weak reasoning.
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Post #1344 (isolation #57) » Sat Jul 06, 2019 2:44 pm
Postby Kaniffee »
I'm gonna give intent now. When I unvoted Ico I hoped I would see some sort of activity from it to confirm what I saw in it during the Cyrus/Red debacle, and he just posted V/LA weekend, and nothing else since. Seeing as this day is gonna end before the weekend is over I see no point in waiting any longer.
intent to hammer Iconeum; deadline 18 hours
(or whenever I actually check in on this thread whichever comes last)
As for reads list
Town: Cyrus/Spangled, Wagon
TL: Holden, Emps
Null: Red/RCE, NaCl
SL: Teacher, Iconeum
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Post #1355 (isolation #58) » Sat Jul 06, 2019 3:21 pm
Postby Kaniffee »
In post 1346, teacher wrote:Kaniffee, when I asked to rap with you I was asking you to explain why you are scum on my slot. You’ve repeatedly expressed suspicious, but not reasons. I want to see how you think a little more.
I have given reasons 1047 and 579. I stand by them. You can ask for clarifications on those if you like and I'll respond in the morning.
As for defense @spangled I really don't feel like looking through all the posts or assuming which ones you mentioned refer to me (since you didn't attach names to some).
I will say on 1053 that I don't see what's wrong with switching my vote from one scum lean to the scum lean that's more likely to be lynched. The teacher wagon never even got to L-1 iirc, and the people who were voting teacher with me had left for largely the same reason. Staying on teacher at that point felt like a waste of a vote.
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Post #1386 (isolation #60) » Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:24 am
Postby Kaniffee »
I think my deadline was around now, but I'll wait if people want to. Also I'd vote for Teacher if I had any indication there'd be more than 2 votes on him by doing so, but i don't see many people going that way.