Newbie 2004: Trash Panada Hour. Redux! GAME OVER

[Freddiethelady]

And gibus - that was a fast one as well. Do I sense a grudge?

Well no, I see the future.

haha i scum, suq it!

this is great - old adversaries meeting again. cheap entertainment!

hi everyone. i didn't interact much my first game because i wasn't really sure how to play/play well. im still haven't figured it out since this is my second game, but i intend to chat a lot so that i can help make this as interesting as possible.

[Freddiethelady]

VOTE: formerfish mafia addicts should be quicklynched so they become less addicted

how heroic of you. save them from themselves!

[Freddiethelady]

:sips coffee:
:twiddles thumbs:

I guess I'll go first.

Hi. I'm formerfish and I'm a Mafiaholic.

I've been playing off and on for years. It was never really a problem until I found myself staying up for 3 days straight while posting my way to 1500 posts in a newbie.

I had one last hurrah before detoxing and entering the program.

I'm only in this game and I am looking to reset. I think I can handle a newbie. I mean it's just one game right. One game. Thats all.

Vote Brass

He knows why, and if he doesn't ask the Lady.

where can we find this lady to ask? or is that what you've named me?

[Freddiethelady]

PBF should stand for Play by Face.

Protip!

what does that even mean?

[Freddiethelady]

PBF should stand for Play by Face.

Protip!

what does that even mean?

You play by typing into a face.

haha i still don't get it

[Freddiethelady]

Hola, also had some mafia history in other places. Have never played a mafia game which lasted this long tho. I don't get the vote for Votato so VOTE:

gibus

this is known as the RVS, or Random Vote Stage, where people vote for silly reasons to get the game started, and then we gradually progress to more serious posting as we get a few bandwagons going.

Fine, VOTE: votato

you shouldn't flipflop like that makes you look flaky

VOTE: imironcat

[Freddiethelady]

haha theyre already starting to trust me. this should be easy.

the truth comes out at last. phew, this has been hard work but persistence pays off!

[Freddiethelady]

i didn't vote for votato

[Freddiethelady]

VOTE: imironcati voted for imironcat

[Freddiethelady]

elmo is trying to get me killed now that im voting for her. what a trash panda!

elmo is a nickname for brass right?

[Freddiethelady]

if nothing else shes trashy...

[Freddiethelady]

related to the theme of the game 'trash pandas'

[Freddiethelady]

It is moving fast but building report is fun and establishes the ability to make reads

[Freddiethelady]

*establishes the opportunities to make reads

[Freddiethelady]

Gibus you’re like a ping pong ball with your votes. It’s looking sloppy and thoughtless. At some point I’m going to ask you to justify that. Are you prepared to do that?

[Freddiethelady]

It’s also making you an easy target

[Freddiethelady]

I’m trying to learn the distinction also. its like throwing darts at a wall. I think the simple answer is that scum will try to be as inconspicuous as possible. Paying close attention to what a person says and how they say can Give you subtle hints. I’m not good at this yet but a healthy dose of skepticism will help you start to weed out leading clues vs gibberish. It’s not rocket surgery but it does take some practice.

[Freddiethelady]

mafia is a game of probabilities. everything is probabilistic. The reason you get a bunch of wagons and posts and arguments going during the day-phase is so you have content and interactions to evaluate. You look at people's thought progressions and interactions with other players, and how they move their votes. All of that gives you clues. And yes, its unlikely to find scum on the first day. But its important to get people to express their thoughts so that on day 2 you can evaluate their thoughts in combination with the "flips" - the people who died. An SE might be able to be more helpful. The point is though, its important for town that everyone contributes, posts, votes, shares their thoughts, and interacts with other players.

Also, apparently lynching scum on day 1 actually lowers the win percentage for town. That might not be true in newbie lobbies though.

Nice explanation, thanks!

[Freddiethelady]

Gibus seems too sloppy to be suspicious but it could be an act.

I’m suspicious that Lilith is a little more experienced then she’s letting on. I’m not sure why she jumped on the gibus wagon either. I’d love to hear an explanation since it could be AI.

[Freddiethelady]

And @lilith you are posting only a little more then @iamironcat. It might not be AI but it seems interesting to me you jumped to protect ironcat so quickly.

[Freddiethelady]

And @lilith you are posting only a little more then @iamironcat. It might not be AI but it seems interesting to me you jumped to protect ironcat so quickly.

I mean, we’ve both posted so I don’t really think you can say either of us were lurking. And regardless, this early I don’t think it’s AI. The only reason I didn’t include formerfish in this is because he hasn’t actually posted.

Can you answer my question about me being “more experienced than I’m letting on”? Why is that something you are suspicious of?

Yes! I’ll have to get back to you - this is a busy time of day for me.

[Freddiethelady]

And @lilith you are posting only a little more then @iamironcat. It might not be AI but it seems interesting to me you jumped to protect ironcat so quickly.

I mean, we’ve both posted so I don’t really think you can say either of us were lurking. And regardless, this early I don’t think it’s AI. The only reason I didn’t include formerfish in this is because he hasn’t actually posted.

Can you answer my question about me being “more experienced than I’m letting on”? Why is that something you are suspicious of?

You aren’t posting much, casting votes and defending someone. Not trying to sort out the rules, clarify things or understand people better. It seems a little sus to me, and I could be wrong but it feels lurking to me....That’s why I asked you to explain your vote and your defending.

[Freddiethelady]

we are already closing in on 3 days. have you figured out who is scum yet?

How are we on day three? Are you being sarcastic?

[Freddiethelady]

we are already closing in on 3 days. have you figured out who is scum yet?

How are we on day three? Are you being sarcastic?

Does each vote-count from Elmo count as a day?

[Freddiethelady]

I do not. That’s fair!

[Freddiethelady]

well ideally you progress towards finding out who. My point though is that since we have no content so far, it would be really bad to have a deadline in 36 hours. you should share your thoughts and vote based on them. its ok to be wrong, but sharing your thoughts is good to get the game moving, and is a way to help convince others that youre town. if you decide youre wrong, you can always change your mind later.

@lilith, why hop on the gibus wagon?

I wanted to see how people reacted to my vote

Mmh, alright. Just a way to prep the game fully with thought contributions before NKs start I suppose.

Well, my current impressions:
I talked about trusting votato earlier, their behavior still holds I think. Giving pro-town advice, calling out disruptive behavior, asking people to justify stances etc.
Freddie too, maybe. Why did Formerfish say to ask you why he voted Brass in the original day 1, by the way, do you know?

Gibus.. is sus. I was reading some guides and games and it seems one of the tells for mafia is changing votes quickly without conviction.. it's almost like he just wants anyone to get lynched and doesn't care who. But then again could just be impatience with rvs (which is also supposed to be mafia behavior?).
Also, Ironcat, Formerfish, and Lilith haven't been posting much recently or just did it to vote bandwagon, and mafia is supposed to want to lurk more iirc to not draw attention? So I guess I'm keeping my vote on Lilith for now even though I initially did it for a silly rvs reason.

^^^ this is a reaction I’m interested in.
- you call gibus suspicious but are also fencesitty about it
- then you say you are now voting me seriously for being on the wagon of someone you think is suspicious

Can you explain why 1) you are voting me and not the other two “lurkers”? 2) why you are voting me for “lurking” over gibus whom you think is suspicious for actual reasons? (“Lurking” in quotes because I’ve been posting and so has iamironcat, and I don’t think lack of wallposts this early is alignment indicative)

@votato she’s defending ironcat in #2 of her “can you explain”...and i meant ”that’sfair” as a figure of speech, as in, “you’ve made a valid point” and ”I was in the wrong” or “that is a valid point”.

[Freddiethelady]

I'm happy to answer theory questions, votato seems to have it well in hand though so I haven't felt the need to write up long-winded explanations. If you feel like there are questions still out there that haven't been addressed that I should be answering, please point those out to me and I can write stuff up.

My main goal thus far has been to get us out of RVS, which I think I've effectively done with my gibus vote. Do you disagree?

@votato in my haste to answer your question I forgot to cite this post which was what I was responding to when I said “that’s fair” so to reiterate my point:, I was saying she was right and she made a valid point in this posts

[Freddiethelady]

Haha it happens to me all the time @votato!

[Freddiethelady]

It's funny how freddie is saying that filiiping is a mafia move - like that's the last thing they would do.
That being said, if I get killed tonight, investigate Lilith. I have a FOS on them.
It might be possible they would put the blame on Freddie.

derp flipping*

What is derp flipping?

[Freddiethelady]

Gibus you’re like a ping pong ball with your votes. It’s looking sloppy and thoughtless. At some point I’m going to ask you to justify that. Are you prepared to do that?

It's RVS, scum

VOTE:

Freddiethelady

The reason I pointed out how many times Gibus voted was because he voted over 5 times in a few votes. I see your point about RVS but if you look at the advice and the other comments I made about Gibus you might be able to recognize my motivation is not scum. Why do you call me scum?

[Freddiethelady]

What is your “solve” based on?

I can see how this can come more from scum than from town.

What do you mean? Do you mean the question that lilith is asking sounds scum, or are you admitting that what she was responding to (your comment) might come across as scummy?

[Freddiethelady]

may get to it tonight but likely won't be until tomorrow morning

Welcome to the game!

[Freddiethelady]

VOTE: Iamironcat

Why? Please elaborate

[Freddiethelady]

Unless feather is super manipulative, it doesn't seem like he would be coordinated enough to pretend to be new, ask all these pertinent questions, and play the scum role so well. For that I think he is VT.
Gibus is sus to me because of all the vote switching and random accusations. I stand by my opinion about it being sloppy and thats all I can come up with atm. My thought is whether or not you're scum in a newbie game, you don't want to draw attention, by trying to be casual that person becomes more suspicious by their fake nonchalance. of course, in opposition to this is people who don't interact are also sus so like ironcat said, its a catch 22. So if the scum is nervous about appearing one way or the other, it might be easiest to be quiet for the time being.
speaking of ironcat, im on the fence. Post #193 he says he’s okay with votato’s disagreement. I am less suspicious of people who aren’t afraid of standing in opposition to someone like votato who has strong, and well thought out opinions because it reads to me that he isn’t trying to cover up something – his opinion is what it is. His exchange with fish made him look even less suspicious, perhaps only in contrast to whatever was going on with fish and his frustrations. Then again, #243 was a childish rebuttal, but that doesn’t scream scum to me necessarily.
I don’t know how to read brass, votato or Lilith. Brass and votato seem genuinely interested in seeing the game progress in a dynamic manner, while helping people learn along the way. if one of them happen to be scum, they haven’t seemed to let on that they are going to take advantage of people’s feelings of ‘trust worthiness’….yet, but I guess that’s the point, right? Lol.
Lilith hasn’t posted much lately, has she? I wonder why. Ive been suspicious of her without being able to collect my thoughts or any evidence (if in fact there is any) against her yet.
Copycat hasn’t struck me as one way or the other. We also don’t have any point of reference from the previous slot holder…lililil (right?) I wonder if, if that was a scum role cat stepped into, lililil wasn’t active at all before, so im assuming the scum buddy wouldn’t have had help from him either…makes me wonder what it was like as a lone scum and who was looking for a replacement.

[Freddiethelady]

also, I looked up noob on the mafiawiki page of abbreviations and couldn't find it. would someone explain what it means, please.

[Freddiethelady]

Am currently catching up, please refer to the below:

Hi friends, apologies for lack of postings. Work has blown up in my face. I will try to be on later tonight, and failing that, tomorrow night.

Can I make a request for your posts? they're a bit difficult to read because you put all the text all together in one block. It would be a lot easier for others to read if you split separate trains of thought into their own paragraphs. Alternatively, splitting them into some kind of outline format like dashes or bullet points would also do the job (lmk if you'd like instructions on how to use bulleted lists on this forum).

yes, sorry about that! I thought about it after I posted it.

[Freddiethelady]

Sorry for my absence. I will catch up shortly

[Freddiethelady]

fish, i had no read on you other than noting how explosive you were. i subconsciously decided i would trying to avoid saying something that might get that reaction out of you because the noise is useless. i joined the game for fun, but your posts and your arrogance makes me wonder if you did the same. i am not sure how to read you and further at the moment - so at the very least its distracting and frustrating to have to read through it.

[Freddiethelady]

i subconsciously decided i would trying to avoid saying something that might get that reaction out of you because the noise is useless

This sounds suspiciously like "I didn't want to draw your attention because I'm scum and don't want you to have a reason to focus on me, please oh please just go away."

Such a shitty reason to punt the responsibility of reading someone as well. I think my posting shows that if you come at me on the level and I feel like intentions are pure that I am more than capable of having a rational discussion about the game and the players in it. I know it's a little hard to swallow, but I think that if you compare my recent posting to my early posting you'll see a difference in them.

I've already rustled people's jimmies, now I'm playing my game, you wanna play with me?

after i posted that comment, i was reading through the feed again and i noticed that. so i agree, your posts are different. honestly you could probably insert 'unsure about my reads' in the part you sentence for the word scum to read: i dind't want to draw your attention because im unsure about my reads...i know that makes for a poor playmate but it is what it is. brass even said he forgot i was playing. lol. but i digress.

my intention is to look more into lilith and ironcat again. the pair of them are the center of most of the tension and im not sure if that's a coincidence. i know thats been pointed out, and well established. the other person i am curious about and watching is brass. i played my first game with brass and he was pretty loud and opinionated - it surprises me that he isn't the same way. he said he was away and doing mothers day stuff which is completely legitimate but it still makes me wonder about him...thats where im focusing my reading and analysis for a while.

[Freddiethelady]

also, in post #53 i voted for ironcat because it was the RVS and he was being flaky as i stated. after that i was reading through his ios and watching his exchanges with the other players. i get the sense that he is just trying to clear his name but he had engaged in a few fights that forced him to justify some emotionally charged posts, which is hard to do when every word is scrutinized (as it should be in a game like this lol). in addition, and this is a gut read, post #159 #550 and his unusual attempts to 'draw out scum' don't seem like a scummy things to do to me. for that im going to unvote/ironcat/unvote

[Freddiethelady]

crap that unvote didn't show up

UNVOTE: ironcat

see post #580 for justification

[Freddiethelady]

Freddie came out hot and heavy, then went away and is cold now. He was voting and pushing ironcat, and then he unvoted and is pushing no one.

I think that there is a good chance that Freds scum who is comfortable with letting us rip into each other, because we kinda are.

Also the idea that he didnt want to comment on anything i said because he feared my wrath, even after i had dropped the mask and started playing my day 2 mode on day 1. It shows a lack of wanting to sort or any attempt to even appear to be sorting people.

The only wagon we had really is on Ironcat, and with Freddie moving his vote while not moving it to a constructive place leaves it shelved and gathering dust. Instead of letting Ironcat stew and potentially slip up and do something AI Freddie removes the pressure and does nothing with it instead.

i can see why you would say that if you were scum. you, lilith, and ironcat are the main sources of friction during this game (oh and kat) and most people have their suspicions about the lot of you. i just unvoted because i wasn't sure, and didn't cast my vote elsewhere. where as you did the opposite. you also bailed on the wagon and said 'she bailed which is scummy' but is entirely scummy of you. if you really thought that ironcat was scum you would say 'shit, now i have to convince freddie et al again' or 'why would you do that, we were so close!!" or something to that nature. whereas if you're scum, you would say, 'freddie is an easy target now' which is exactly what you did. i told you why i voted him in the first place, why i unvoted him. i wasn't comfortable participating in that wagon because there had been character developments. the abandonment of your suspicions towards ironcat on a whim appears extremely opportunistic to me.

[Freddiethelady]

“The other thing that bothers me about his read on me is that his original scumread was predicated on Freddie being scum and trying to call out me and ironcat together as a team, and he said that meant freddie and I were a scumteam.“ im not sure who you’re talking about here Lilith. You said “the other thing that bothers me about his reads...” (his being ironcat, right?) but then you say “...trying tor call our me an ironcat together as a team...” it sounds like your suggesting that ironcat was suggesting you and he were a scum pair together. Would you mind clarifying that?

[Freddiethelady]

Gibus is sus to me because of all the vote switching and random accusations.

So when you first said that, I thought it was good that you were trying to push town out of RVS

But it's really weird to me that by this point, you're still clutching to RVS behavior from Gibus and even using it to justify a scummy read

Are you asking me why I am still holding on to RVS behavior from Gibus?

[Freddiethelady]

I think votato's general vibe has been pretty cheeky

I'm not seeing that this game, at least not compared to other votato games.

I see it, but i dig it since it reminds me of me, so basically id do me.

lucky you

[Freddiethelady]

freddie is confscum by the way

what makes you say that?

[Freddiethelady]

"Do you think that Formerfish would have hopped off of the wagon to attack the person who left the wagon just before him whether it was your or Lilith interchangeably?"

@nauci that was what I was trying to figure out. I explained why i unvoted ironcat and fishy immediately abandoned his suspicions of ironcat to vote me. i really didn't know what to make of that, except that he wasn't committed to his vote, or he and his scumbuddy were just trying to lynch anyone...i suspect a sloppy move like that it would be a newbie thing to do, but fishy is obviously not newbie so it leaves the alternative. am i missing something?

[Freddiethelady]

freddie is confscum by the way

what makes you say that?

Is this close enough to "Why me" for us to fry him?

I bet you're hoping it is.

[Freddiethelady]

Spoiler: Freddie ISO

Gibus seems too sloppy to be suspicious but it could be an act.

I’m suspicious that Lilith is a little more experienced then she’s letting on. I’m not sure why she jumped on the gibus wagon either. I’d love to hear an explanation since it could be AI.

i was trying to sound clever. it was a really stupid comment that was sparked because of a misunderstanding of who was new. i honestly thought there mods would put one or two SE's with a bunch of newbies and i thought she might be one of them...boy was a wrong about the newbie to SE proportions. yes, it was a rocky start! i was trying to take the advice of a form that said (im paraphrasing) 'share your thoughts and don't be afraid of being wrong occasionally. it helps the game if you try to be genuine and explore your thoughts and observations.'

I still don't think this has been answered. It seems like the start of Freddie's Lilith read, which is pretty rocky ground.

I’m trying to learn the distinction also. its like throwing darts at a wall. I think the simple answer is that scum will try to be as inconspicuous as possible. Paying close attention to what a person says and how they say can Give you subtle hints. I’m not good at this yet but a healthy dose of skepticism will help you start to weed out leading clues vs gibberish. It’s not rocket surgery but it does take some practice.

Applying your thought process here, have you uncovered subtle hints in what people are saying? And would agree that applying this logic to your own posts would read them as scummy?

i've been trying to. i think confirmation bias is easily applied here because clearly youre less than impressed. ill get better at the rocket surgery asap!

Gibus you’re like a ping pong ball with your votes. It’s looking sloppy and thoughtless. At some point I’m going to ask you to justify that. Are you prepared to do that?

This is a weird question. Why not ask him to justify them now? This feels like you have clocked an easy push and are just holding back for an opportune moment.

justify now? as in this moment?

Lilith hasn’t posted much lately, has she? I wonder why. Ive been suspicious of her without being able to collect my thoughts or any evidence (if in fact there is any) against her yet.

This happened 7 irl days ago, and over HALF the game ago. Yet they have still done nothing with this. Where is the evidence Freddie? Where are the reads?

i don't know yet. i do like her. i like her questions and observations and i loved how she ate fried fish during her arguments with him. what say you @lilith? how can i engage you or anyone better?

So reading Freddie I don't find scum hunting, it is mostly excuses and questions about site stuff. There is very little pushes or curiosity. I also read through their ISO of Newbie 1997 and they feel very different there. For one, they replaced into that game and have nearly as many posts there as they do here. And in that game, they don't seem nearly as lost and unsure, constantly pursuing things and asking questions. This really feels like scum that doesn't know what to say.

VOTE: Freddiethelady

i know im sus, its okay. its easy to pick on low hanging fruit isn't it especially when you subbed into the slot you did? copycat was pretty anxious

[Freddiethelady]

oh crap. I didn't do that post right...you can't see my comments between tuxs. let me repost

[Freddiethelady]

freddie is confscum by the way

what makes you say that?

Is this close enough to "Why me" for us to fry him?[/quote

I bet you're hoping it is.

Shit like this is precisely why you’re confscum

but how? you don't like my sense of humor? its okay, im usually the only one laughing at my jokes.

[Freddiethelady]

"Do you think that Formerfish would have hopped off of the wagon to attack the person who left the wagon just before him whether it was your or Lilith interchangeably?"

@nauci that was what I was trying to figure out. I explained why i unvoted ironcat and fishy immediately abandoned his suspicions of ironcat to vote me. i really didn't know what to make of that, except that he wasn't committed to his vote, or he and his scumbuddy were just trying to lynch anyone...i suspect a sloppy move like that it would be a newbie thing to do, but fishy is obviously not newbie so it leaves the alternative. am i missing something?

I think this is a pretty simplistic view of the game. Town is ignorant and paranoid, shifting focus, and constantly pursuing new leads is part of why I town read FF. Do you really think it is that simple to catch scum? That ScumFF would immediately abandon a lynch he wants because you moved off? Or is it more likely that Town!FF who has a lot less info, and don't actually know Cat's alignment, but only has suspicions would suddenly be MORE suspicious of your sudden abandonment of the wagon?

I didn't think my explanation was a 'sudden abandonment'...it took me days to come to that, i said that, and i didn't vote someone else...where as FF did. he just said 'freddie, youre sus cause you changed your mind'. is that how we role? that points to a lot of scummy people here - im newbie, he isn't. im being thoughtful. he shouldn't be given a get out of jail free card for that one, in my opinion.
and no, i definitely don't think finding scum is that easy. you seem to think it is though - youre picking on the new kid saying im clever enough to be scum....while i appreciate the comment, i think lots of people here can see youre just wrong on this one.

[Freddiethelady]

appreciate the compliment** not comment

[Freddiethelady]

Freddie. There. Are. Questions. In. There.
Nice dodge though.

yes, i can see that. did you see my #888? i formatted it wrong. i thought you could reply in between the block quotes (from me)...if you open the spoiler, i do have some comments. i will be reposting it.

[Freddiethelady]

Spoiler: Freddie ISO

Gibus seems too sloppy to be suspicious but it could be an act.

I’m suspicious that Lilith is a little more experienced then she’s letting on. I’m not sure why she jumped on the gibus wagon either. I’d love to hear an explanation since it could be AI.

I still don't think this has been answered. It seems like the start of Freddie's Lilith read, which is pretty rocky ground.

I’m trying to learn the distinction also. its like throwing darts at a wall. I think the simple answer is that scum will try to be as inconspicuous as possible. Paying close attention to what a person says and how they say can Give you subtle hints. I’m not good at this yet but a healthy dose of skepticism will help you start to weed out leading clues vs gibberish. It’s not rocket surgery but it does take some practice.

Applying your thought process here, have you uncovered subtle hints in what people are saying? And would agree that applying this logic to your own posts would read them as scummy?

Gibus you’re like a ping pong ball with your votes. It’s looking sloppy and thoughtless. At some point I’m going to ask you to justify that. Are you prepared to do that?

This is a weird question. Why not ask him to justify them now? This feels like you have clocked an easy push and are just holding back for an opportune moment.

Lilith hasn’t posted much lately, has she? I wonder why. Ive been suspicious of her without being able to collect my thoughts or any evidence (if in fact there is any) against her yet.

This happened 7 irl days ago, and over HALF the game ago. Yet they have still done nothing with this. Where is the evidence Freddie? Where are the reads?

So reading Freddie I don't find scum hunting, it is mostly excuses and questions about site stuff. There is very little pushes or curiosity. I also read through their ISO of Newbie 1997 and they feel very different there. For one, they replaced into that game and have nearly as many posts there as they do here. And in that game, they don't seem nearly as lost and unsure, constantly pursuing things and asking questions. This really feels like scum that doesn't know what to say.

VOTE: Freddiethelady

here are the comments i made when i messed up (sorry again!)
i was trying to sound clever. it was a really stupid comment that was sparked because of a misunderstanding of who was new. i honestly thought there mods would put one or two SE's with a bunch of newbies and i thought she might be one of them...boy was a wrong about the newbie to SE proportions. yes, it was a rocky start! i was trying to take the advice of a form that said (im paraphrasing) 'share your thoughts and don't be afraid of being wrong occasionally. it helps the game if you try to be genuine and explore your thoughts and observations.'

i've been trying to. i think confirmation bias is easily applied here because clearly youre less than impressed. ill get better at the rocket surgery asap!

justify now? as in this moment?

i don't know yet. i do like her. i like her questions and observations and i loved how she ate fried fish during her arguments with him. what say you @lilith? how can i engage you or anyone better?

[Freddiethelady]

Freddie. There. Are. Questions. In. There.
Nice dodge though.

yes, i can see that. did you see my #888? i formatted it wrong. i thought you could reply in between the block quotes (from me)...if you open the spoiler, i do have some comments. i will be reposting it.

No, that's my bad. I apologize, it turns out I was the lazy one. I didn't think your answers would be in there.

not at all! they should have been up front, clear, and easy to read. it won't happen again!

[Freddiethelady]

i know im sus, its okay. its easy to pick on low hanging fruit isn't it especially when you subbed into the slot you did? copycat was pretty anxious

What's with this shade? You're also parroting what others have said, again. Do you scum read my slot? I don't see it in your ISO.

was i shading myself? lol

im parroting people i think are right and faster to get to the point than i am.

[Freddiethelady]

Spoiler: Freddie ISO

Gibus seems too sloppy to be suspicious but it could be an act.

I’m suspicious that Lilith is a little more experienced then she’s letting on. I’m not sure why she jumped on the gibus wagon either. I’d love to hear an explanation since it could be AI.

I still don't think this has been answered. It seems like the start of Freddie's Lilith read, which is pretty rocky ground.

I’m trying to learn the distinction also. its like throwing darts at a wall. I think the simple answer is that scum will try to be as inconspicuous as possible. Paying close attention to what a person says and how they say can Give you subtle hints. I’m not good at this yet but a healthy dose of skepticism will help you start to weed out leading clues vs gibberish. It’s not rocket surgery but it does take some practice.

Applying your thought process here, have you uncovered subtle hints in what people are saying? And would agree that applying this logic to your own posts would read them as scummy?

Gibus you’re like a ping pong ball with your votes. It’s looking sloppy and thoughtless. At some point I’m going to ask you to justify that. Are you prepared to do that?

This is a weird question. Why not ask him to justify them now? This feels like you have clocked an easy push and are just holding back for an opportune moment.

Lilith hasn’t posted much lately, has she? I wonder why. Ive been suspicious of her without being able to collect my thoughts or any evidence (if in fact there is any) against her yet.

This happened 7 irl days ago, and over HALF the game ago. Yet they have still done nothing with this. Where is the evidence Freddie? Where are the reads?

So reading Freddie I don't find scum hunting, it is mostly excuses and questions about site stuff. There is very little pushes or curiosity. I also read through their ISO of Newbie 1997 and they feel very different there. For one, they replaced into that game and have nearly as many posts there as they do here. And in that game, they don't seem nearly as lost and unsure, constantly pursuing things and asking questions. This really feels like scum that doesn't know what to say.

VOTE: Freddiethelady

here are the comments i made when i messed up (sorry again!)
i was trying to sound clever. it was a really stupid comment that was sparked because of a misunderstanding of who was new. i honestly thought there mods would put one or two SE's with a bunch of newbies and i thought she might be one of them...boy was a wrong about the newbie to SE proportions. yes, it was a rocky start! i was trying to take the advice of a form that said (im paraphrasing) 'share your thoughts and don't be afraid of being wrong occasionally. it helps the game if you try to be genuine and explore your thoughts and observations.'

i've been trying to. i think confirmation bias is easily applied here because clearly youre less than impressed. ill get better at the rocket surgery asap!

justify now? as in this moment?

i don't know yet. i do like her. i like her questions and observations and i loved how she ate fried fish during her arguments with him. what say you @lilith? how can i engage you or anyone better?

the rest of the post read: I didn't think my explanation was a 'sudden abandonment'...it took me days to come to that, i said that, and i didn't vote someone else...where as FF did. he just said 'freddie, youre sus cause you changed your mind'. is that how we role? that points to a lot of scummy people here - im newbie, he isn't. im being thoughtful. he shouldn't be given a get out of jail free card for that one, in my opinion.
and no, i definitely don't think finding scum is that easy. you seem to think it is though - youre picking on the new kid saying im clever enough to be scum....while i appreciate the comment, i think lots of people here can see youre just wrong on this one.

Finally, the whole thing. SO SO SORRY people! I really made a mess of the last posts.

[Freddiethelady]

I tried that once and I lost the post. Is there a special way to preview the post?

[Freddiethelady]

you should use the "preview post" function to see what your posts will look like before posting.

thanks. i will try it now.

Oh I see my mistake. i scrolled down, not up to see the preview. ugh.

Gibus seems too sloppy to be suspicious but it could be an act.

I’m suspicious that Lilith is a little more experienced then she’s letting on. I’m not sure why she jumped on the gibus wagon either. I’d love to hear an explanation since it could be AI.

i was trying to sound clever. it was a really stupid comment that was sparked because of a misunderstanding of who was new. i honestly thought there mods would put one or two SE's with a bunch of newbies and i thought she might be one of them...boy was a wrong about the newbie to SE proportions. yes, it was a rocky start! i was trying to take the advice of a form that said (im paraphrasing) 'share your thoughts and don't be afraid of being wrong occasionally. it helps the game if you try to be genuine and explore your thoughts and observations.'

I still don't think this has been answered. It seems like the start of Freddie's Lilith read, which is pretty rocky ground.

I’m trying to learn the distinction also. its like throwing darts at a wall. I think the simple answer is that scum will try to be as inconspicuous as possible. Paying close attention to what a person says and how they say can Give you subtle hints. I’m not good at this yet but a healthy dose of skepticism will help you start to weed out leading clues vs gibberish. It’s not rocket surgery but it does take some practice.

Applying your thought process here, have you uncovered subtle hints in what people are saying? And would agree that applying this logic to your own posts would read them as scummy?

i've been trying to. i think confirmation bias is easily applied here because clearly youre less than impressed. ill get better at the rocket surgery asap!

Gibus you’re like a ping pong ball with your votes. It’s looking sloppy and thoughtless. At some point I’m going to ask you to justify that. Are you prepared to do that?

This is a weird question. Why not ask him to justify them now? This feels like you have clocked an easy push and are just holding back for an opportune moment.

justify now? as in this moment?

Lilith hasn’t posted much lately, has she? I wonder why. Ive been suspicious of her without being able to collect my thoughts or any evidence (if in fact there is any) against her yet.

This happened 7 irl days ago, and over HALF the game ago. Yet they have still done nothing with this. Where is the evidence Freddie? Where are the reads?

i don't know yet. i do like her. i like her questions and observations and i loved how she ate fried fish during her arguments with him. what say you @lilith? how can i engage you or anyone better?

So reading Freddie I don't find scum hunting, it is mostly excuses and questions about site stuff. There is very little pushes or curiosity. I also read through their ISO of Newbie 1997 and they feel very different there. For one, they replaced into that game and have nearly as many posts there as they do here. And in that game, they don't seem nearly as lost and unsure, constantly pursuing things and asking questions. This really feels like scum that doesn't know what to say.

VOTE: Freddiethelady

i know im sus, its okay. its easy to pick on low hanging fruit isn't it especially when you subbed into the slot you did? copycat was pretty anxious

@Freddie: Did I successfully pick out the parts of this comment that YOU wrote? I was so extremely confused by the formatting screw up that I'm putting this here to potentially help clarify for anybody else

P.S. I'm feeling plagiarized right about now

I plagiarized you? sorry!

he just said 'freddie, youre sus cause you changed your mind'.

Huh... Is that what I said though?

I suggest not misrepresenting my words when they are as eloquently crafted as my posts can be.

I was paraphrasing.

[Freddiethelady]

i know im sus, its okay. its easy to pick on low hanging fruit isn't it especially when you subbed into the slot you did? copycat was pretty anxious

You can't call yourself low hanging fruit. If you do then it indicates you know what you're doing is subpar for town, yet are still doing it anyways for some reason.

I agree that it's little blurbs like this that you probably feel is how town should react, but it's really really not.

cool! that's the first time someone has indicated i *might* know what im doing here! lets just go a head and move my experience to SE...its damn near perfect

"Do you think that Formerfish would have hopped off of the wagon to attack the person who left the wagon just before him whether it was your or Lilith interchangeably?"

@nauci that was what I was trying to figure out. I explained why i unvoted ironcat and fishy immediately abandoned his suspicions of ironcat to vote me. i really didn't know what to make of that, except that he wasn't committed to his vote, or he and his scumbuddy were just trying to lynch anyone...i suspect a sloppy move like that it would be a newbie thing to do, but fishy is obviously not newbie so it leaves the alternative. am i missing something?

I think this is a pretty simplistic view of the game. Town is ignorant and paranoid, shifting focus, and constantly pursuing new leads is part of why I town read FF. Do you really think it is that simple to catch scum? That ScumFF would immediately abandon a lynch he wants because you moved off? Or is it more likely that Town!FF who has a lot less info, and don't actually know Cat's alignment, but only has suspicions would suddenly be MORE suspicious of your sudden abandonment of the wagon?

I didn't think my explanation was a 'sudden abandonment'...it took me days to come to that, i said that, and i didn't vote someone else...where as FF did. he just said 'freddie, youre sus cause you changed your mind'. is that how we role? that points to a lot of scummy people here - im newbie, he isn't. im being thoughtful. he shouldn't be given a get out of jail free card for that one, in my opinion.
and no, i definitely don't think finding scum is that easy. you seem to think it is though - youre picking on the new kid saying im clever enough to be scum....while i appreciate the comment, i think lots of people here can see youre just wrong on this one.

I think you're misinterpreting (or mischaracterizing) again here

Tuxedo was saying that you shouldn't have scumread FF for what he did, not that he's scum reading you for it in that specific part

Oh, okay. to clarify (he means FF not tux) FF was scum reading me for unvoting ironcat? but then why did FF vote for me right after?

[Freddiethelady]

and no, i definitely don't think finding scum is that easy. you seem to think it is though - youre picking on the new kid saying im clever enough to be scum....while i appreciate the comment, i think lots of people here can see youre just wrong on this one.

Hey, look at our join dates. I'm as new around these parts as you are. I'm taking other's thoughts into consideration, it's why I'm asking them to give me a more in-depth explanation into your slot. But I also want to be better and standing with my reads, so I'm not ready to drop this yet. Though the antagonism between us is something I'm not enjoying, so I'd rather that get dropped as we continue discussing.

I still don't think this has been answered. It seems like the start of Freddie's Lilith read, which is pretty rocky ground.


here are the comments i made when i messed up (sorry again!)
i was trying to sound clever. it was a really stupid comment that was sparked because of a misunderstanding of who was new. i honestly thought there mods would put one or two SE's with a bunch of newbies and i thought she might be one of them...boy was a wrong about the newbie to SE proportions. yes, it was a rocky start! i was trying to take the advice of a form that said (im paraphrasing) 'share your thoughts and don't be afraid of being wrong occasionally. it helps the game if you try to be genuine and explore your thoughts and observations.'

i've been trying to. i think confirmation bias is easily applied here because clearly youre less than impressed. ill get better at the rocket surgery asap!

justify now? as in this moment?

i don't know yet. i do like her. i like her questions and observations and i loved how she ate fried fish during her arguments with him. what say you @lilith? how can i engage you or anyone better?

1: Thanks for the honesty, the amount of SEs seems like a weird assumption to make. It's public knowledge. Why did it take you so long to say this?

2: I meant at that moment? Why not just as Gibus to justify his votes as he was making them, not saying you will later.

3: Well it sounds like you do know. Do you think that lilith being better at arguing than Fish is town indictive? Or just playstyle?

i know im sus, its okay. its easy to pick on low hanging fruit isn't it especially when you subbed into the slot you did? copycat was pretty anxious

What's with this shade? You're also parroting what others have said, again. Do you scum read my slot? I don't see it in your ISO.

was i shading myself? lol

im parroting people i think are right and faster to get to the point than i am.

No, you're shading me. Being "low hanging fruit" is not a defense of your actions. You're essentially scum reading me for scum reading you. Then you also throw Copy Cat under the bus, when it didn't even seem like you were scum reading them before. Who are you scum reading?

@Votato & CsGO guy I forget your name can you answer my questions about Freedie's slot?

I have more, but I gotta sleep because my SO is mad at me for playing in bed. Sorry.

1. why did i explain it until now or why wasn't it obvious to me when i made the comment? ill answer both to save time: because i was too embarrassed to admit how stupid that comment was and im not sure why it wasn't obvious to me when i made the comment. i don't really know how to go back in time to point out why i didn't notice something...it just didn't didn't occur to me.

2. ugh, i don't know. when a lot of comments pile up i felt overwhelmed by how much i felt like i needed to respond to and underwhelmed by how little i felt i could add to the analysis.

3. it was just playstyle and articulation. fish was being a dick and she called him out point for point. i was impressed, but have no AI because of that particular comment.

3a. during RVS she seemed like the only serious person, which made me thing she was scum. i recognize that is the thinnest argument for SR in the history of mafia but i wasn't able to develop an opinion beyond that. she still seems a little scummy to me at times but not as scummy as fish - i didn't know how to touch that though. fish was too big for me to fry (lol). the other thing i couldn't decipher as the game developed was whether lilith looked better in proximity cause fish was a dick, or if she just better at being inconspicuous during all the noise and she was really just lurking. (i still don't know how to make that distinction). it seems to me that i've spent more time defending some vague shadowing i cast on lilith than developing a solid read on her...which is why i didn't vote her i just mused. so i know this isn't helpful, i'm just trying to explain my reasoning since everyone keeps asking me to explain myself.

[Freddiethelady]

but then why did FF vote for me right after?

3 people on a wagon puts pressure on the person being run up.

You took away the pressure for little reasoning, and did nothing with your vote after unvoting.

So I voted for you for releasing the pressure on the wagon and for doing nothing with your vote.

Continue to misrep me please, i love it.

ahhhhhhh, i see. okay! thanks. that helps!

also, you don't have to ask for more misrep...i do it a lot apparently...its bound to happen again.

[Freddiethelady]

the rest of the post read: I didn't think my explanation was a 'sudden abandonment'...it took me days to come to that, i said that, and i didn't vote someone else...where as FF did. he just said 'freddie, youre sus cause you changed your mind'. is that how we role? that points to a lot of scummy people here - im newbie, he isn't. im being thoughtful. he shouldn't be given a get out of jail free card for that one, in my opinion.
and no, i definitely don't think finding scum is that easy. you seem to think it is though - youre picking on the new kid saying im clever enough to be scum....while i appreciate the comment, i think lots of people here can see youre just wrong on this one.

Okay, this was the last thing I wanted to address last night. Freddie when I say your unvote was sudden, it is because it was. Read the game and your progression on Ironcat, it isn't in this game. Maybe it took you IRL days to reach that conclusion, but we can't see or prove that. All we have to go on is what you posted. So to us, it is sudden. Very earlier on Votato said the best way for us to town read people is for them to play the game. When you're keeping everything back because you're scared of how it'll make you look well then it makes you look bad.

Bad = scummy not bad = you suck.

Also, do stop using the newbie card on me. We joined at around the same time, and both only have one completed game. Something we replaced into late.

thats a good point. and re: newbie card, i will stop - youre absolutely right. its whinny and weak which i hate so thanks for calling me out. and for the record, you seem to be doing much better than i did the first time i subbed in...so cheers!

[Freddiethelady]

Which reminds me, @Osuka can you explain your read on freddie? All I can find in your ISO is that you called one of her posts bland? Also, are you scumreading formerfish?

i'll get you some post numbers from freddie in a second here, i'm still catching up to the thread.

345 is a bad post that

seems

good at first glance. it's not quite iioa but it's very shallow and feels fabricated, almost as if she was forcing herself to form something remotely resembling a natural read

585 is bad wifom. like wifom and bad reasoning had a kid and it was a terrible, terrible post

886 is a shit tier dodge

893 is unnecessarily defensive and clearly uncomfortable

898 is apologetic. the apologetic, almost friendly tone can be found in other posts and it screams "let me be your friend, fellow townie"

937 is full of bad justifications for bad decisions

969 brings back the apologetic tone in full force

You haven't provided reasons behind your reads just a list of hollow observations - you've made some funny comments about my posts re:the baby post (witty! nice one) but its hardly justification for your read. btw you've made the exact same comment about post 345 twice now. talk about dodging but it really speaks to my point that you have no substance. you replaced ironcat right? well tbh i wasn't SR your slot but i'd scum read you for your attitude and baseless accusations. its a good lesson to learn that people who are less then enjoyable fill VT slots too. obvi nice =/= townie but i like having living examples to harp back too as i learn the game.

[Freddiethelady]

Standing to the side of an argument and announcing scumreads on players without directly engaging with them is exactly the scumtell I’m looking for

sorry, who was this directed to?

[Freddiethelady]

freddie is confscum by the way

what makes you say that?

Is this close enough to "Why me" for us to fry him?

By the way, this isn't really a reason. that's just an interpretation of my words. why are you searching for confirmation bias with me? you've not exactly approached me or engaged with me...as much as you ask other people to come to you with questions, i would expect someone saying those things to have practiced what they preach.

why are you so defensive? i know you said you can predict where this is going with my head on the chopping block, but you haven't exactly been objective about my reads and given me feed back that isn't riddled with insults. sorry, maybe its just my personality but that's major scum points for me.

@tux thanks for asking. Fiiiiishie is my scummiest read right now. maybe its the murky water he's swimming in....so punny right?

[Freddiethelady]

I plagiarized you? sorry!

Okay but like can you confirm that I highlighted the correct parts of your response there

you did.

[Freddiethelady]

I plagiarized you? sorry!

Okay but like can you confirm that I highlighted the correct parts of your response there

you did.

[Freddiethelady]

My shitty vote count

Osuka (1) - Tuxedo Mask
Tuxedo Mask (Copykat) (2) - votato, Nauci,
Freddiethelady (2) - osuka, Former Fish
Wavesarc (Brassherald) (1) - gibus
Votato (2) - Wavesarc, Lilith13

Not Voting (1) - Freddiethelady,

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

If this is right, sorry if it isn't. Things are pretty spread around right now. We need to get a real push going.

VOTE: Freddie

oh, well. that's fine, but why am i your scummiest read? does this put me at l-2?

[Freddiethelady]

Why Lilith? PoE?

Lilith and fish are scummy together

Why are they scummy together?

that was wayyyy too long ago for that question to be super relevant. but it was their interactions. I didnt buy their fight as TvT. They seemed to be agreeing about a lot of reads, and I didn't particularly like their reads. that suggests orchestration. Fish has since said that his posts were somewhat intentionally scummy as a gambit. If anything that makes lilith even more scummy since her posts agreed with someone who was being scummy on purpose.

i agree, i think think that fish was being scummy on purpose. why not vote fish? is he your second pick for scum?

[Freddiethelady]

Spoiler: how do I look?

looks right up @votato's alley

[Freddiethelady]

I have far more knowledge of freddie than anyone else (no, not what you're thinking), so I hope that, at least for today, we can put more weight on my read. I was townreading brass pretty confidently

I've played more with Brass than almost any other player on the site except for The Worst, so I hope you can understand that my meta-read on him contributes to it as much if not moreso than your meta read of Freddie.

He was very curt and brief with posting his views and I've never seen town!Brass be so cagey about explaining his reasoning, yet I

have

seen scum!Brass be very low participation and then replace out.

Town!Brass is typically a town leader who not only has good reads, but is good at explaining them in ways that effectively builds pushes.

when i say theres no hardpushing, i mean there's no one doing big wallposts with post-by-post analysis, no one is really hard tunneling

I still think that there have been multiple posts by a few people which fit this description

Also, I dislike you hopping off my wagon. I think consolidating things with this little time left is best.

Why? There's WAY more content from your slot now than there was when I really really really wanted to lynch there, enough so that your interactions with Freddie make me want to re-evaluate when I can, so I am pushing a different slot that I scum read, especially since it has a replacement who hasn't contributed AI content or enough content to go into day 2 with. Besides, I said that while I'm de-prioritizing this game, I'd be checking it before time runs out and can move if town really needs to consolidate.

nausi is one of my strongest TRs, as was feather. if i were her, and i were mafia, i wouldn't post stuff like this - it seems genuinely in the interest of town. the fact that you make the meta reads available to everyone so can see you have an evidence based claim is excellent. i would say its enough but eternal vigilance is paramount to survival, so i did scroll through the games. thanks for that.

i found some examples of comments by bass that were hollow, vague reads where he was enormously underwhelming as nausi described:

I'm cool with where my vote is. I feel like there's lots of noise from Kat but not much else. Feeling good about it.

I'm cool with where my vote is. I feel like there's lots of noise from Kat but not much else. Feeling good about it.

Ok, you care to comment on anything else, or are you good with that being your contribution given everything else that has been going on?

I feel like people might have been a little too fast to trust Feathers. Still not sure about you.

Ironcat and Lilli is my best guess at a TvT argument if there is one.

Votato I'm comfortable saying he's either town or got me pocketed hard.

I don't know about Freddie at all legitimately forgot he was in the game

Reads change over time. It's part of playing a game

You just said that you pivoted away from ironcat to find his partner though

Right, because there are 2 people who are scum, and now since that slot is being replaced i am looking for the other person who I think could be scum.

Brass has shown an inconsistency in his posting and seemingly forgot about his Gib sr when he explained why copy was doing the same stuff as gib.

Do you want to talk about anything relevant or keep pushing things that dont mean anything?

I said Kat was scummier at that time. I only have one vote my man

hmm. this isnt good. where are the people? what do they think about formerfish and lilith?

Scum lean on Fish. Still prefer a Kat lynch

So now I'm in a catch-22

gibus clarified 264+265 for me and Its not the scum slip I thought it was but if I unvote I'll probably be scumread for it

There are two people who the scum do not want lynched. Otherwise, the only reason they want a slot to keep around is if they think they've got them pocketed.

You clearly do not have anyone pocketed.

So am I scum in this or is scum trying to keep me around? I genuinely confused

You are the scum.

it wasn't hard to find evidence. he had very little to say in general, and what he did say was of little substance for someone who was clearly opinionated.

okay people im announcing that i am putting waves into l-1.

i bolded, underlined and italicized the quote from nausi in the first block that summed it up - fits the description of his behavior exactly. If nausi is telling the truth, which i am assuming she is otherwise i'm a huge sucker and i probably deserve to be lynched for my suckerness. but then this too: Town!Brass is typically a town leader who not only has good reads, but is good at explaining them in ways that effectively builds pushes. again, another massive giveaway.

VOTE: wavesarc/bassherald

[Freddiethelady]

@tux thanks for asking. Fiiiiishie is my scummiest read right now. maybe its the murky water he's swimming in....so punny right?

This is scum behavior.

You are trying to seem nonchalant and easy breezy with your jokes about my name and all the puns you have about it as well, but you arent doing that with anyone else. You are focusing on me and disparaging me to the thread but you aren't voting me or even really pushing for me to be lynched, you are just shading the fuck out of me and poking the bear begging for a reaction by repeatedly calling me a dick for a situation that had 2 sides to it and Lil never even gave half as much of a shit as anyone else has, so i kinda think that if the person who i called a cunt isnt mad at me for it because she called me an asshole and then we spoke and figured out that there was a miscommunication that we addressed and moved past no one else should be able to use that against me or continue to call me a dick without fear of repercussions.

you don't have to threaten me with repercussions to get your point across, i'm sorry. you're absolutely right. my bad!

[Freddiethelady]

Toe pick.

what is toe pick?

[Freddiethelady]

@nausi, i hope i didn't plagiarize again. i tried to cite you properly!

[Freddiethelady]

@Freddie why aren't you voting FF? And what about FF do you find scummy?
Do you scum read Copycat/Me? But I'm most interested in your read of Copycat's posts. And do you scum read Osuka/Ironcat? I'm more interested in your thoughts on Osuka's posts though.

Freddie, can you answer this?

Ironcat was unvoted by me. We established that, I could have been wrong but it seemed reasonable to me so I acted on it. Osuka has been just shitting on everyone’s posts and being loud. The loudness may be an attempted substance but I can’t read it yet.

Fish, what’s a vanity vote?

I’m not voting fish atm because I think he’s scummy but it might be deliberate. It reminds me of the quote “I think a servant of the enemy would look fairer and feel fouler”. I’m still not sure enough to vote him, which is why I never voted him.

How do I officially claim my role? Do I send a screen shot of my message from Elmo? I’m not scum.

[Freddiethelady]

No, i was saying by claiming VT youre probably still going to hang because you arent a PR we need to save.

Why are you saying that to waves when you just hammered me?

[Freddiethelady]

Okay so here's the main posts I was looking at for timing of the wagons:

Fish votes brass.

VOTE: Brass

Let's dance.

osuka votes freddie shortly after.

Hola, also had some mafia history in other places. Have never played a mafia game which lasted this long tho. I don't get the vote for Votato so VOTE:

gibus

this is known as the RVS, or Random Vote Stage, where people vote for silly reasons to get the game started, and then we gradually progress to more serious posting as we get a few bandwagons going.

Fine, VOTE: votato

you shouldn't flipflop like that makes you look flaky

VOTE: imironcat

that's very scummy
VOTE: freddiethelady

gibus votes brass and nauci says she is scumleaning brass.

Do not scumread me for this please, but I'm going to sheep Fish and Nauci and change my vote in 3 posts.
VOTE: brassherald (wavesarc)

Tuxedo Mask makes a big case on freddie shortly after.

Spoiler: Freddie ISO

Gibus seems too sloppy to be suspicious but it could be an act.

I’m suspicious that Lilith is a little more experienced then she’s letting on. I’m not sure why she jumped on the gibus wagon either. I’d love to hear an explanation since it could be AI.

I still don't think this has been answered. It seems like the start of Freddie's Lilith read, which is pretty rocky ground.

I’m trying to learn the distinction also. its like throwing darts at a wall. I think the simple answer is that scum will try to be as inconspicuous as possible. Paying close attention to what a person says and how they say can Give you subtle hints. I’m not good at this yet but a healthy dose of skepticism will help you start to weed out leading clues vs gibberish. It’s not rocket surgery but it does take some practice.

Applying your thought process here, have you uncovered subtle hints in what people are saying? And would agree that applying this logic to your own posts would read them as scummy?

Gibus you’re like a ping pong ball with your votes. It’s looking sloppy and thoughtless. At some point I’m going to ask you to justify that. Are you prepared to do that?

This is a weird question. Why not ask him to justify them now? This feels like you have clocked an easy push and are just holding back for an opportune moment.

Lilith hasn’t posted much lately, has she? I wonder why. Ive been suspicious of her without being able to collect my thoughts or any evidence (if in fact there is any) against her yet.

This happened 7 irl days ago, and over HALF the game ago. Yet they have still done nothing with this. Where is the evidence Freddie? Where are the reads?

So reading Freddie I don't find scum hunting, it is mostly excuses and questions about site stuff. There is very little pushes or curiosity. I also read through their ISO of Newbie 1997 and they feel very different there. For one, they replaced into that game and have nearly as many posts there as they do here. And in that game, they don't seem nearly as lost and unsure, constantly pursuing things and asking questions. This really feels like scum that doesn't know what to say.

VOTE: Freddiethelady

waves then tries to start a votato wagon almost immediately after Tuxedo's freddie case

@everyone that is townreading votato: why?

VOTE: votato btw

also osuka starts hard-pushing freddie shortly after that

freddie is confscum by the way

What do you make of this? I appreciate the consolidation of the points but what motivated you to make that? What was your point?

[Freddiethelady]

@Freddie why aren't you voting FF? And what about FF do you find scummy?
Do you scum read Copycat/Me? But I'm most interested in your read of Copycat's posts. And do you scum read Osuka/Ironcat? I'm more interested in your thoughts on Osuka's posts though.

Freddie, can you answer this?

Ironcat was unvoted by me. We established that, I could have been wrong but it seemed reasonable to me so I acted on it. Osuka has been just shitting on everyone’s posts and being loud. The loudness may be an attempted substance but I can’t read it yet.

Fish, what’s a vanity vote?

I’m not voting fish atm because I think he’s scummy but it might be deliberate. It reminds me of the quote “I think a servant of the enemy would look fairer and feel fouler”. I’m still not sure enough to vote him, which is why I never voted him.

How do I officially claim my role? Do I send a screen shot of my message from Elmo? I’m not scum.

Vanity vote is a vote on a wagon that has no legs, you vote there because youre vain and think you know better.

You claim by saying what you are, if youre a town pr I would just say PR for right now, so we dont clue scum in anymore than needed.

do NOT send a screenshot. you cant quote or anything like that. you dont need to claim since no one has stated intent to hammer. a vanity wagon is one that doesnt have momentum, so basically wasting your vote on a non-wagon. also, are you feeling FF to know how foul he feels?

Okay, guys. My role is VT. I’m shit at lying. I’m just bad at this game! Did waves officially claim also?

Thanks for the vanity-vote explanation.

I’m trying to feel him. But I think he’s not scum. Gut feeling.

I think they are going to get me either way and I have no PR. Hahaha I’m so bad strategically. I’m like the squirrel in the Rose that gets killed cause I’m indecisive! Bye everyone

[Freddiethelady]

What?? Why?? Omg. I’m so lost! You said to claim fish!!!

[Freddiethelady]

Right. I'm questioning why you're saying that to freddie when he clearly intends to claim, even though he wasn't actually hammered

Hes a newbie and i hammer tested him, i expected him to crack a little.

You said to do it!!

[Freddiethelady]

I hope i die tonight and get released from this shit show.

We are literally discussing you not claiming

Vota even said you shouldnt claim in the post you quoted

He said “I didn’t have to”.

And you still can I guess. At least the tormenting would be over and now that you know my role it would be Town killing town or scum killing town.

Coached by who?? To kill myself??

[Freddiethelady]

Uh... I think it's worse to claim PR because scum would still kill townPR!freddie but no one would be able to counterclaim scum!freddie, whereas if you claim the name then there's an opportunity for counterclaim by town PR. town!freddie gets killed either way.

Its the only thing we can wifom the scum about.

If we had freddie claim then they would know to shoot him or not. If we had him claim PR they have to guess whether to kill him or not and have no ability to maneuver over night.

I thought you meant that the group that’s on my wagon would know to kill me or not...I didn’t want to die so I thought, claim your role. I cracked. I don’t know what to say.

[Freddiethelady]

Yup, you’re right. I’ll do better next time! Good luck everyone!

[Freddiethelady]

I thought you meant that the group that’s on my wagon would know to kill me or not...I didn’t want to die so I thought, claim your role. I cracked. I don’t know what to say.

Yeah, but you cracked in such a way at a specific time where you are making an attempt to explain why you werent killed tonight.

Follow me here.

If we just lynched Waves after your whole "how do I claim" stuff then scum could look at you and think to themselves that he was ready to claim, so therefore maybe he had something to claim other than a vt, so we should still kill him tonight in case he is a PR and we get lucky.

By claiming after the lynch went through all you are doing is taking your name out of the hat because now scum knows youre a vt and wouldn't target you for the nk because they would be PR hunting among the unclaimed people.

You just explained why you are alive tomorrow even though you really shouldnt be. Scum should have killed you tonight so that they could throw shade over all the people who were pushing you since they would have been pushing a townie right?

But you arent town, so your team mate told you to claim vt so you wouldnt die tonight and have a reason to point to when youre still alive.

Scum caught, i rest my case.

What will happen to this theory when I flip town?

[Freddiethelady]

Why are you acting like you've been killed?

I guess I’m being dramatic but it sounded like the town was going to lynch me

[Freddiethelady]

I forgot Gibus was even in this game.

And Lilith...

[Freddiethelady]

Freddie, why shouldn't you die today?

you’ve said yourself that I’m a bad player many times, so Going off that, how likely is it that I’m strategic enough to be scum? Is that a chance you’re willing to take when Deciding whether you should risk voting another lynch? Are you taking that into consideration, or are you happy with Just anyone hanging....

[Freddiethelady]

Freddie, why shouldn't you die today?

i dont think there is a good answer to this question

VOTE: freddie

Is that a good enough reason to vote?

[Freddiethelady]

It's so weird that you were so convinced for Brass to be scum based on meta, yet in this same post back peddle on the lynch by saying your vote was for pressure.

I'm pretty sure I explained myself clearly yesterday. I had a strong meta-based scum read on Brass, and wavesarc had barely contributed to the thread. You were my strongest scumread largely based on your predecesor's posts, but since you contributed a ton of content under pressure, I wanted to pressure my other scum read to also contribute. It was unfortunately hammered before that happened. Nice try with the shade but this is how scum hunting works.

If you want people to stop talking about Freddie and start talking about meaningful stuff, why don't you actively start that up instead of trying to shut the other conversations down? I mean you're literally posting about how we need to talk about how we feel about all the other players but you've not done so yourself, and all you did day 1 was tunnel that slot.

I think that the Freddie discussion had potential to head somewhere, especially after Freddie actually came to respond to them, and that how different players discussed that slot was helping me sort them.

tux may have brought it up a few times since his attempt to change the subject was largely ignored. just a thought.

I don't really know how to contribute at this point - the discussion has only been revolving around how shitty my posts are, which is just noise. lilith isn't around nor is gibus. i think tux and nauci are doing a nice job of looking for other things to discuss, but aren't being engaged. fish and osuka aren't doing much except critique my posts. votato is quiet for now but not like lilith or gibus who have been virtually silent for a long time now.

so nauci, what happened? you had me convinced his slot was scum. i was really surprised by the result; bass' game/behavior may have been an anomaly.

osuka, you're a loud and obnoxious dick. you're unlike fish who (comes across as abrasive also) at least has the decency of explaining why he abhors my reads/personality/contributions. i will improve my game...will you?

question: is it common to suspect someone is lying who confirms themselves as town like i did? i guess i answered my own question by observing that im still under scrutiny even though i confirmed my role.

[Freddiethelady]

I don't really know how to contribute at this point - the discussion has only been revolving around how shitty my posts are, which is just noise. lilith isn't around nor is gibus. i think tux and nauci are doing a nice job of looking for other things to discuss, but aren't being engaged. fish and osuka aren't doing much except critique my posts. votato is quiet for now but not like lilith or gibus who have been virtually silent for a long time now.

this is a bad misrep of how the game is going. fish and i are tearing your posts apart and yet all you do is defend

yourself

, not the content we're addressing. it's almost as if you take the push on your slot personally, or you're trying to pull the "everyone's an asshole to me!" card

I’m not trying to take things personally. I will say that this public flogging isn’t fun. I’m not the only one who thinks you’re being unnecessary mean.

[Freddiethelady]

tux may have brought it up a few times since his attempt to change the subject was largely ignored. just a thought.

I don't really know how to contribute at this point - the discussion has only been revolving around how shitty my posts are, which is just noise. lilith isn't around nor is gibus. i think tux and nauci are doing a nice job of looking for other things to discuss, but aren't being engaged. fish and osuka aren't doing much except critique my posts. votato is quiet for now but not like lilith or gibus who have been virtually silent for a long time now.

so nauci, what happened? you had me convinced his slot was scum. i was really surprised by the result; bass' game/behavior may have been an anomaly.

osuka, you're a loud and obnoxious dick. you're unlike fish who (comes across as abrasive also) at least has the decency of explaining why he abhors my reads/personality/contributions. i will improve my game...will you?

question: is it common to suspect someone is lying who confirms themselves as town like i did? i guess i answered my own question by observing that im still under scrutiny even though i confirmed my role.

Line by line:
1: I can handle myself, and I think you've been trying to pocket me for a while.

2: Lilith restated her read of Votato and voted, what do you think of that? What separates Votato's quiet from Lilith's?

3: @Nauci, is this how I came off when I criticized your meta read? If so I'm sorry.

4: Let's not stoop to their level with the insults. Do you town read fish and scum read Osuka? If so, why?

5: What you did is easily faked, it means nothing. I don't think it a common occurrence, but that doesn't make it town.

1 line: pocket? No, I’m not sure how to follow someone’s lead without appearing to pocket then...

2 line: I missed that...I’ll go find it an respond.

Line 3: @nauci, I genuinely wasn’t trying to criticize you. Sorry!! I’m curious about your reaction. It will help me understand. I hope I didn’t dig myself into a hole further I just need to explore this a little more. indulge me: when someone presents an argument in favor of an action that ends up being bad for the team, a good after action report would include that person’s perspective. That was the line of thinking I was going for. I don’t think you did it on purpose. You’re a TR for me for sure.

Line 4: I agree. I shouldn’t have gone there.

Line 5: okay, I won’t ever make that mistake again. Except that I am what I said I was, the mistake wasn’t in me faking, it was “how I did it” I suppose.

[Freddiethelady]

ff the chain of events is accurate. But there's a really simple explanation for why Freddie claimed. She fucked up. As scum there's no reason for her to claim there. It's a bad play and has no upside regardless of alignment. Occams razor

Just replace the word "scum" with "town", and get "As town there's no reason for her to claim there."

Exactly. Nai

Yeah that's really not what I'm saying at all.

Scum!freddie claiming VT gets the benefit of people calling her noobtown and hard defending her for it; she gets the benefit of not having to explain why she wasn't the NK in this game ever; she gets the benefit of being able to tie messy associatives to the people who are defending her so even after she gets lynched, PoEs are fucked up by that claim.

At any time during that entire chain of events, freddie could have asked for clarification about what was happening if she was so clueless, like you say she is. She could have asked whether waves had really been lynched. She could have confirmed whether she needed to claim. Since you two know each other so well, she could have asked you directly to explain what was happening if she felt intimidated by others in the thread. She didn't do any of those things.

I did ask for help!

In post #1095 I asked FF why he was saying that to waves when he had just hammered me. He didn't respond. I felt a little panicked - I really messed up. My explanation aside from not fully understanding the game, the strategy, or the nuances is a really stupid and I don't know if it will be helpful but here it is: I play this from my phone, I had the message typed up and had to close my phone before I submitted it. Then when I came back, my text was still in the box - unsubmitted. I thought to myself 'I am probably already dead. I wonder if I'll get an email' I kicked myself for not submitting it and then quickly did in the hopes that I could save myself. At the beginning of the game, someone mentioned that you shouldn't claim your role unless you have to save your life. It is stupid, I should have been patient, and more careful. I just messed up. I don't know how to tell it any more true-er than that.

#1608 I felt really stupid. I was sure I would die after that since I confirmed town and would be an easy kill, and frankly I forgot that scum knew who the town were...for some reason I kept thinking that no one knew who anyone was except the two scum and their jobs were to find VTs before the PR knew who to protect.

#1524 and #1617 We never, ever discuss the game irl. Games are no fun if you cheat! I got into this game because he encouraged me to give it a shot. It would take away the thrill of the game if we swapped info! So you can stop making these insinuations. Votato doesn't need my defending, he's a big boy. He's smart, sharp and articulate. His insights are spot on and I trust him implicitly both here and irl. I don't know for sure what Votato role is, but he's pro-town in my mind in all his posts. I hesitated saying anything because I fear any stated opinion in support another player may be misconstrued, due to my reputation, and I really don't want to make it worse for Votato -- he's taken too much heat for me as it is, quite heroically I might add.

#1542 I can't defend myself, I was trying to make my agreement have some meat. I will read something and agree with it without feeling like it needs embellishments. I wasn't trying to sheep you or ham you...what does ham mean by the way? Or is that a real people, real world comment? Cause I obviously know that would mean irl. I need to learn how to agree with someone without making them feel like I'm sheeping them.

#1592 on this platform, we're nearly strangers. Our relationship outside of this platform is irrelevant to the game - you all were discussing previous games played together, we can't really relate. I subbed into a game with him (my first game) on day 2 and we lost. I barely contributed...so even if I could base our mafia-friendship off that brief interaction, it wasn't really 'chat' worthy.

#1599 what why?! that was a quick catch up. Can you explain why you went from 'what the hell happened to this thread' at 8:39 to to all caught up and ready to vote votato 8:40? (with a second post also at 8:39) That feels opportunistic to me not thoughtful.

#1605 I agree. You guys are miserable playmates.

#1606 deranged humans derive pleasure out of other people's pain.

#1607 Don't worry, I am here to second that for myself. And ya, #1433 is actually quite accurate with the telepathic thinking point.

[Freddiethelady]

forgot a comma after sharp. that makes me mad.