Newbie 2076 [Game Over]

[Ythan]

Hello friends.

[Ythan]

I'm driving home from work lol I'll read up in a bit.

[Ythan]

Hi SM~

[Ythan]

I'm not a Tracker, though

Don't post shit like this you're narrowing it down for scum.

[Ythan]

(I'm temporarily nicknaming alstromerial to Turtwig, if they're okay with this due to them having a similar-sounding name to Astra)

You be fair you should probably give them both nicknames.

[Ythan]

To be

[Ythan]

Maybe it is general site meta, but I haven't seen it this early in any of the games I've played or read in Rome :/

IDK why that would matter tbh.

It's Null for me. It's normal for people to debate this, but it does sound like it's been going on kinda long. That's why I think we don't have an applicable setup.

At the bolded, how is that not relevant? One side says it's site meta and the other says they've never seen it and you don't know why that would matter?

[Ythan]

I thought Astra's vote was scrubbed when they dropped out.

That's an interesting assumption.

[Ythan]

I'm not a Tracker, though

Don't post shit like this you're narrowing it down for scum.

You're outed tracker dude

Dude spoilers

[Ythan]

Nobody has claimed tracker

How did this get posted. Did you just say this without checking? Did you miss it?

[Ythan]

VOTE: Clasko

Yeah, I feel like this is money. I think that was an actual slip tbh.

Explain why.

[Ythan]

My brain went fuzzy somewhere on page 13 so I'll pick up there later.

[Ythan]

Who replaces out of a conf town PR slot oh well thanks Hockey.

[Ythan]

For now, I'm going to VOTE: Egix to try to squeeze some more content out.

Not generally a very effective way to go about that when you say it.

[Ythan]

I won't be able to sit down and form a comprehensive, updated read until I am back from visiting my grandparents today

Hope they're doing well.

[Ythan]

Also wanna ask SM who their two strongest elimination candidates are rn for D1, and why?
I say two, because one is most likely me which you've hinted the potential reasons for in #279 and iterating that doesn't say much.

"I feel like you want to eliminate me. Who else would you like to eliminate instead?"

[Ythan]

On another note, this sort of weird posting type of thing is more what I expect of T3. IDK if I'm moving them to TL yet or not, but I will see if it continues.

This isn't what a townie who actually plans on watching this says.

[Ythan]

And after saying it out in the open, it probably diminishes the effect.

Like what are you thinking.

[Ythan]

If you're asking about the RQS scum tell sample size, you've been on this site long enough to know that one.

If it's the "tbh" tell I'm not sure how you expect me to source that unless you want me to comb through every newbie game and CTRL+F scum ISO's for "tbh" and "honestly". Which uh, I'm not gonna do. But I'm clearly not the only one who's heard of that tell anyway.

Going back to this, this is pretty Scummy?

Feels sorta like fake.

Ditto except in reference to your response.

[Ythan]

I do weirdpost though.

What is this in response to?

[Ythan]

VOTE: MargotRosa

Margot's slot need a bit of pressure.

Then why explicitly call it pressure smh my head

[Ythan]

On a more serious note, I want to ask SM (but I also want everyone to chime in) if it's better to extinguish the seeds of doubt I had accidentally sewn in my #216 by making me the D1 elim today.
Given I'm even suggesting this, you can probably guess my alignment and role, but I think my elim has some advantages:

- The 'slip' is resolved, which may mar D2 discussion if unchecked.
- We don't accidentally 'out' the other PR by bringing them to e-1 and force them to claim, which feels especially important given Hockey has already outed

If I'm going against wincon with this suggestion, then I sincerely apologise and will accept all responsibility but I think it's more beneficial for the game to keep the other, less disposable PR, hidden as opposed to my slot that is just a big, fat question mark, and I wouldn't be suggesting this if not for the 'slip' and Hockey didn't out.

Let me know what you all think.

Y'all quit claiming jfc

[Ythan]

Nobody has claimed tracker

How did this get posted. Did you just say this without checking? Did you miss it?

At that point I thought based off what Hockey had said that it looked very much like a joke. Turns out he was actually claiming Tracker.

Makes less sense to me than if you had just missed it.

[Ythan]

Let's kill something. I suggest this.

VOTE: LQ

[Ythan]

On another note, this sort of weird posting type of thing is more what I expect of T3. IDK if I'm moving them to TL yet or not, but I will see if it continues.

This isn't what a townie who actually plans on watching this says.

I do weirdpost though.
Unless it's a theme game
Then I giga tryhard, get 200 posts in a day, am run up to e1, then nightkilled after the wagon disappates.

the story of my life, in mafiascum~

Okay I put together what you were saying here finally. Him commenting on your weird posting isn't what i mean, exactly. He's suggesting it could potentially lead to him town reading you if you continue doing it. And he said it. Where you could see it. That makes no sense from a town perspective.

[Ythan]

Like if you're town and you think that's how you determine someone's alignment you do it, you don't talk about it while simultaneously blowing it.

[Ythan]

hounding

Lol

[Ythan]

Maybe it is general site meta, but I haven't seen it this early in any of the games I've played or read in Rome :/

IDK why that would matter tbh.

It's Null for me. It's normal for people to debate this, but it does sound like it's been going on kinda long. That's why I think we don't have an applicable setup.

At the bolded, how is that not relevant? One side says it's site meta and the other says they've never seen it and you don't know why that would matter?

Seriously?

Lol fantastic way to start your responses

[Ythan]

VOTE: Clasko

Yeah, I feel like this is money. I think that was an actual slip tbh.

Explain why.

At the time I was more sure of it being a slip. Now I'm not as confident in it.

EXPLAIN WHY you thought it was a slip that was the question.

[Ythan]

On another note, this sort of weird posting type of thing is more what I expect of T3. IDK if I'm moving them to TL yet or not, but I will see if it continues.

This isn't what a townie who actually plans on watching this says.

I do weirdpost though.
Unless it's a theme game
Then I giga tryhard, get 200 posts in a day, am run up to e1, then nightkilled after the wagon disappates.

the story of my life, in mafiascum~

Okay I put together what you were saying here finally. Him commenting on your weird posting isn't what i mean, exactly. He's suggesting it could potentially lead to him town reading you if you continue doing it. And he said it. Where you could see it. That makes no sense from a town perspective.

Then keep reading because this was cleared up since it wasn't actually something wild from T3. I said as much.

I'll tell you when my questions are cleared up lol. For the record you're making it worse so far.

[Ythan]

Maybe it is general site meta, but I haven't seen it this early in any of the games I've played or read in Rome :/

IDK why that would matter tbh.

It's Null for me. It's normal for people to debate this, but it does sound like it's been going on kinda long. That's why I think we don't have an applicable setup.

At the bolded, how is that not relevant? One side says it's site meta and the other says they've never seen it and you don't know why that would matter?

Seriously?

Because it is usually brought up in newbie games I would assume. If that's correct, then when it is brought up is more or less moot.

I assume you know what they say about assuming.

[Ythan]

Ythan's case on me is extremely weak. If they were not confirmed Town I would totally be voting there.

You on bus clown.

Kill this.

[Ythan]

Omgus*

[Ythan]

Maybe it is general site meta, but I haven't seen it this early in any of the games I've played or read in Rome :/

IDK why that would matter tbh.

It's Null for me. It's normal for people to debate this, but it does sound like it's been going on kinda long. That's why I think we don't have an applicable setup.

At the bolded, how is that not relevant? One side says it's site meta and the other says they've never seen it and you don't know why that would matter?

Seriously?

Lol fantastic way to start your responses

It's literally not an issue at all. If you would have just thought I had a different perspective, that would be one thing, but you think it's actually Scummy which is weird.

You don't get to decide what's an issue welcome to mafia.

[Ythan]

Ythan's case on me is extremely weak. If they were not confirmed Town I would totally be voting there.

You on bus clown.

Kill this.

I feel like your push on me is for OGR because you don't like me.

Sorry you feel they way if you aren't just bullshitting to get out of a whole but no you're the scummiest person in this game.

[Ythan]

Quit trying to make things personal and play the game.

[Ythan]

Ythan's case on me is extremely weak. If they were not confirmed Town I would totally be voting there.

You on bus clown.

Kill this.

I feel like your push on me is for OGR because you don't like me.

Sorry you feel they way if you aren't just bullshitting to get out of a whole but no you're the scummiest person in this game.

What have I been BSing about? Literally nothing. Everything I've said is true.

It gets less and less plausible you actually believe this with every post you make.

[Ythan]

Quit trying to make things personal and play the game.

No, bro. You started it.

No bro I voted you welcome to mafia.

[Ythan]

Since you’re here, can you give me a list of Town reads Ythan?

I'll review and get back to you on that.

[Ythan]

Quit trying to make things personal and play the game.

No, bro. You started it.

No bro I voted you welcome to mafia.

And then you started to try and intentionally piss me off.

Again you're making that up. Quit trying to make things personal and play the game.

[Ythan]

You don't get to decide what's an issue welcome to mafia.

This post is made for not other reason than to piss me off.

Do you really think you are capable of saying what my intentions are lol.

[Ythan]

If you think that's true why you don't report me. Please. And then let's get back to the game instead of ATEing.

[Ythan]

You don't get to decide what's an issue welcome to mafia.

This post is made for not other reason than to piss me off.

Do you really think you are capable of saying what my intentions are lol.

Yes, it's pretty clear you have a grudge against me for some reason.

Nobody's out to get you dude jfc

[Ythan]

Looking forward to your flip.

[Ythan]

If you think that's true why you don't report me. Please. And then let's get back to the game instead of ATEing.

Because I have a rule against reporting people unless something is extremely extremely toxic.

Then quit clowning and play the game.

[Ythan]

Yeah you said "your case is weak" a lot.

[Ythan]

This is a democratic game though so you can keep shouting that all the way to the gibbet if you want.

[Ythan]

I don't need you to self vote. I'm not here to convince you to admit you're scum. Keep up your ATE mess if you like.

[Ythan]

I don't need you to self vote. I'm not here to convince you to admit you're scum. Keep up your ATE mess if you like.

My last posts has literally zero hint of AtE? Are you serious?

I don't really care about your input on your elimination as I've stated. If you want to escape play the game and look for scum.

[Ythan]

I don't need you to self vote. I'm not here to convince you to admit you're scum. Keep up your ATE mess if you like.

My last posts has literally zero hint of AtE? Are you serious?

I don't really care about your input on your elimination as I've stated. If you want to escape play the game and look for scum.

I can do that if you give me a fricken moment to breath.

Not how forums work. Hop to it!

[Ythan]

Interesting lemme look at your iso

[Ythan]

I don't need you to self vote. I'm not here to convince you to admit you're scum. Keep up your ATE mess if you like.

My last posts has literally zero hint of AtE? Are you serious?

I don't really care about your input on your elimination as I've stated. If you want to escape play the game and look for scum.

I can do that if you give me a fricken moment to breath.

Not how forums work. Hop to it!

Which basically just means you don't want to give me time to Scum hunt.

By all means keep pretending I control your actions.

[Ythan]

Ythan do you have town reads? If so, what are they?

I'll get there trust me.

[Ythan]

Meta is for nerds I prefer to learn through experience.

[Ythan]

I don't remember discussing the differences in our views. I remember repeatedly wtfing the explanations you gave for every conclusion you posted. But that's neither here nor there.

It seems pretty obvious if anyone has a grudge over this it's you.

[Ythan]

I don't remember discussing the differences in our views. I remember repeatedly wtfing the explanations you gave for every conclusion you posted. But that's neither here nor there.

It seems pretty obvious if anyone has a grudge over this it's you.

Whatever. I'm willing to drop it if you are.

I didn't bring it up so that goes without saying.

[Ythan]

To be clear yes I'm happy to drop it.

[Ythan]

Gonna post the number 2 as a reminder to myself as I take a break from this review.

[Ythan]

I'm no stranger to getting tilted over a mafia game. I think you're neat I just gotta vote you rn.

[Ythan]

If you're asking about the RQS scum tell sample size, you've been on this site long enough to know that one.

If it's the "tbh" tell I'm not sure how you expect me to source that unless you want me to comb through every newbie game and CTRL+F scum ISO's for "tbh" and "honestly". Which uh, I'm not gonna do. But I'm clearly not the only one who's heard of that tell anyway.

Going back to this, this is pretty Scummy?

Feels sorta like fake.

Ditto except in reference to your response.

I'll be honest, IDK what this means.

Feels sorta like fake.

Are you spending this time trying to sort me?

[Ythan]

Mafia not killing anyone is worse than them killing a VT. It's not logical for them to take that risk.

Are you suggesting that Scum will not used their NK if we do this strategy?

No. I'm saying that scum going for Tracker in a 50/50 nk/kill tracker isn't worth it if it fails.

VOTE: T3

Switching vote to T3 for what is either some wild scummy behaviour, or a galaxy brain townie that will lead us astray anyway.

If we reveal who tracker is, scum knows who tracker is. They also know that, whatever the setup, there is one town PR left, and if they manage to snipe them, they can take out the tracker, who they 100% already know. Town is automatically far more likely to lose both power roles, if chance alone is factored in.

If we don't reveal tracker, the likelihood that town randomly loses both PRs by d3 is 2/7 * 1/6 = ~4.8% chance. This is not even taking into account whether we have a doctor, and if we do, that chance is lessened even more.

On the other hand, if we do reveal tracker, the chance that we lose both PRs by d3 is the chance of randomly picking the doctor out of the remaining 6 townies, allowing them to kill the tracker n2, giving 1/6 = ~17% chance. Here, there is no real doctor to lessen the chance further, as doc needs to protect tracker on the off chance scum play a wild card and kill tracker as a fake (risk of this happening is higher than the probability of randomly picking the 1/6 townie that scum will also target).

That is how much we screw ourselves by revealing a role. <4.8% chance of randomly losing both PRs goes up to ~17% chance.

As T3 is a seasoned forum player, I'd expect them to know this, or have at least observed it. Absolutely scum read on T3.

I don't really love all the hedging in this.

[Ythan]

Don't like this vote. IIRC there was something like this brought up in past Newbie games.

Honestly sincerely would love to see one or more games where you have witnessed this before.

[Ythan]

Still on the side of tracker claiming late d1 imo

Lol

[Ythan]

Don't like this vote. IIRC there was something like this brought up in past Newbie games.

Honestly sincerely would love to see one or more games where you have witnessed this before.

I'd have to dig. Want me to? I suspect it won't change your read on me so it's kinda pointless, but I will if you want me to.

I am considering moving my vote but don't be surprised if I don't.

You repeatedly saying this is normal when I don't think that's true is a sticking point though.

[Ythan]

Thank you.

[Ythan]

The number 8

[Ythan]

No I'm keeping track of where I am in a review. I feel extra free to just post whatever given my position.

[Ythan]

VOTE: T3

For being so low energy. Can't talk about this read much, but I do think T3 doesn't have much vigor this game. He also isn't explaining himself very well. Both things point to him being red.

But since Hockey has played with T3 before I want them to answer if T3 was this low energy in the game they played together. Will check for myself.

I just really don't buy a lot of stuff you say and here's an example. I don't really think the points you started from are true, and I don't think the conclusion you draw from those points makes sense either.

[Ythan]

VOTE: T3

For being so low energy. Can't talk about this read much, but I do think T3 doesn't have much vigor this game. He also isn't explaining himself very well. Both things point to him being red.

But since Hockey has played with T3 before I want them to answer if T3 was this low energy in the game they played together. Will check for myself.

I just really don't buy a lot of stuff you say and here's an example. I don't really think the points you started from are true, and I don't think the conclusion you draw from those points makes sense either.

I mean, when T3 actually agrees with me about this I'm not really sure why you would think these would be bad points.

He acknowledged he was low energy, I don't believe I saw him agree with the other. I still think they're illogical points to pick out and you didn't respond to the bit about how your conclusions don't make sense.

[Ythan]

VOTE: T3

For being so low energy. Can't talk about this read much, but I do think T3 doesn't have much vigor this game. He also isn't explaining himself very well. Both things point to him being red.

But since Hockey has played with T3 before I want them to answer if T3 was this low energy in the game they played together. Will check for myself.

I'm very low energy because this is a stagnant newbie.

Like, plain black and white that T3 is agreeing with me. It's for a different reason, but it does say I had a point about T3.

Seriously Ythan, your case on me is BAD.

I'm perfectly content to let you hang if it means I don't hear anymore ATE for the rest of the game, tread lightly.

[Ythan]

The number 10

[Ythan]

Are you still just responding to my posts, by the way? Not a good look at this point.

[Ythan]

You could act like you're town trying to salvage the predicament you're in by achieving a scum elimination, which you are not doing.

[Ythan]

And I'm not going to repeat this a further time: stop trying to make this personal or I'll show you the difference between personal and impersonal!

[Ythan]

You could act like you're town trying to salvage the predicament you're in by achieving a scum elimination, which you are not doing.

What exactly are you expecting of me?

Honestly this but I'm double checking before you hang.

[Ythan]

There is no personal reason, despite the constant bullshit.

[Ythan]

12

[Ythan]

Not done with that reread but town reading Roden and maybe T3 depending on how I feel about the claim business at any given moment.

[Ythan]

WAIT IM AN AN IDIIT

I wonder

[Ythan]

LOL T3 YOU IDIOT

Why did you hammer????

This doesn't seem particularly genuine.

[Ythan]

Everyone talk if you're town.

[Ythan]

This is content time get posting before the lock.

[Ythan]

Morning friends. Game isn't over yet.

Good performance Lick, sincerely.

[Ythan]

Bold of you to try to shoot me whoever you are. Glad I won that coin flip, I was worried you might try given your desperate situation.

[Ythan]

Do you get told if you were targeted?

No but I would know if I had been targeted by a friendly neighbour and the odds that an fn and the scum both didn't act is astronomically small.

[Ythan]

I’m also going to assume that since you haven’t immediately jumped on someone that you don’t have a guilty, so it’s probably best to keep the result quiet to not give mafia a target.

I agree.

[Ythan]

I have to admit I'm disappointed I don't have a guilty today, I really thought I had it.

[Ythan]

Do you get told if you were targeted?

No but I would know if I had been targeted by a friendly neighbour and the odds that an fn and the scum both didn't act is astronomically small.

Just in case if you're a friendly neighbor and this did happen just target me tonight so I know my first clear is no good.

But I think I'm just salty about not nailing scum last night.

[Ythan]

I did wonder if they might try as a desperate attempt to make up for losing their PR day one.

[Ythan]

Also I don't mind turbo E-2 but please don't turbo lim me without last words

Don't eliminate anyone without my consent I have information.

[Ythan]

I don't have a clear because Clasko hasn't visited the site since Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:21 am.

[Ythan]

Btw if you ever feel that way on MS just replace out it's fine, don't throw people take that real serious.

[Ythan]

Wait, then shouldn't Clasko be replaced?

I checked with the mod before sharing my conclusions.

[Ythan]

I think my number one associative read being correct and provably not being here to submit the kill is more likely than someone else shooting me.

VOTE: Clasko

[Ythan]

Will also help me pick a new target tonight if I'm wrong, otherwise I'm waiting for a replacement and targeting the same slot.

[Ythan]

I don't have a clear because Clasko hasn't visited the site since Wed Aug 18, 2021 7:21 am.

This means he couldn't have attempted to kill if he's the remaining mafia, because he hasn't been on site. That makes my "clear" worthless. And I already targeted him because he's my number one suspect off associates.

[Ythan]

It is alsoan alternate explanation for the no kill, rather than scum unwisely targeting me.

[Ythan]

And I checked with the mod if theoretically he would have been replaced out in the night or just no killed if he is scum and was told the latter.

[Ythan]

We've got all day to discuss possible tomorrows until he shows up.

[Ythan]

Or that.

[Ythan]

Hope all is well dude!

[Ythan]

Any input on my track is fine. It's not as if they can do anything but sweat.

[Ythan]

Hi Gramps thanks for subbing in.

[Ythan]

I'll find some time to look at LQ's iso and point out all the posts I think he doesn't make if he's partners with anyone else.

[Ythan]

What is everyone's experience playing Mafia?

RQS is a scum tell. It's an irrelevant question that's just there to make you look busy.

VOTE: LQ

What is everyone's experience playing Mafia?

I've been playing on MS semi-regularly since I joined.

VOTE: Margot

You're forgetting that the D/P remakes are coming out later this year. Also, "honestly" tell.

P.S. Hockey is town on vibes.

What do you have against honesty?

It's nothing major, but it's simply that scum sometimes have a tendency to overuse words that they think will "sound" more towny.

Had a newbie game where someone said "tbh" over thirty times and turned out to be scum. They still won even after it was pointed out as a scum tell too.

Uh huh. What's your sample size for that?

If you're asking about the RQS scum tell sample size, you've been on this site long enough to know that one.

If it's the "tbh" tell I'm not sure how you expect me to source that unless you want me to comb through every newbie game and CTRL+F scum ISO's for "tbh" and "honestly". Which uh, I'm not gonna do. But I'm clearly not the only one who's heard of that tell anyway.

You used the honesty tell unironically, same for the RQS tell, which I have never heard of. If you look through my newbie games, you will see I like RQS better than RVS.

I think LQ is genuinely trying to convince Roden of something here, +town Roden

[Ythan]

Actually, I noted something from one of Roden’s scum games, specifically involving past experiences with their scum game with me and Roden’s scum game with them, something really sticks out. So one thing I noticed is that Roden and T3 were townreading each other early, which he in my scum game actually said he would TR my slot when we were both scum. To me there’s also the fact that from what I parsed as pushing pressure off their teammate as well.

This is just meta, so take it with a grain of salt, but I think it should be pointed out.

Forgot to mention but this is from Gelato 2, Newbie 2066 and Sanwich Debate in 2071 as reference.

Does this happen often in Roden's Scum games? I'd kinda like to see a pattern.

This I think is a good highlight of LQ trying to build a case on Roden out of nothing and for me is +town Roden.

[Ythan]

It’s not really a pattern from just one person if you ask me. It’s a pattern between two users from my experience and reading into a scum game where both T3 and Roden were scum.

Why do you think they would play it the exact same way again?

Just because you lose as scum doesn’t mean you can’t do that kind of stuff again at all, and thinking like that could end up with scum completely getting away with doing said risky play because it IS the play Town wouldn’t expect.

I just think that adds a lot of unnecessary WIFOM into the game. No reason to think the team is exactly T3 and Roden yet.

YET

+town at least one of T3/Roden

[Ythan]

If you're asking about the RQS scum tell sample size, you've been on this site long enough to know that one.

If it's the "tbh" tell I'm not sure how you expect me to source that unless you want me to comb through every newbie game and CTRL+F scum ISO's for "tbh" and "honestly". Which uh, I'm not gonna do. But I'm clearly not the only one who's heard of that tell anyway.

Going back to this, this is pretty Scummy?

Feels sorta like fake.

???

What exactly sounds scummy or fake about this?

It feels fake because I don't think you honestly believe the stuff you are saying about RQS. Like, why is that Scummy? Look through my games, I lead off with RQS semi-regularely.

Like this:

viewtopic.php?p=11817906#p11817906

I don't care if you always lead off with RQS? It's a notable scum tell and that doesn't change things just because you've done it in the past.

I wouldn't hard accuse anyone for it, the tbh tell was me commenting on Egix bringing it up and backing it up with my own belief in it. It's nothing I'd bother trying to use on Day 1 though, I think it's reasonable that people use it naturally in their speech patterns. It's just when you have people using it sparingly or never in their confirmed town games and then blatantly overusing it in games they're suspicious in, then I think it has merit.

My opinion on RQS doesn't seem popular, but I've been burned a few times by people who try to look helpful/busy by engaging in RQS but then turn out to be scum. It's easy town cred for too little effort IMO.

Then doubts the "tbh" tell and doubles down on the RQS? I said in 154 that defensiveness and honesty tells were bad, but to keep on the RQS thing was really bad.

T3 how sure are you that Roden is Town here? I expect a straight up answer here.

How am I doubting the tbh tell here? I literally advoated for it lmao, you're just making shit up here. Commenting on RQS isn't "bad", let alone scummy. You and Strange both keep looking for reasons to call me scummy but both of your attempts have been really weak and desperate.

Both you and Egix96 used the "honesty" tell. Egix96 said they were only halfway serious about it. You are doubling down on it being Scummy, when it was discussed at length that it's really only Scummy if someone overuses it as Scum compared to Town. I don't think you actually believe these tells. They might be semi-okay to get the game started, but they are really bad once we have 10+ pages. And you didn't stick to those tells. You unvoted me and never voted Margot for the honesty tell. It just seems like you don't actually believe it.

This is the first I've actually heard someone say "I don't think you believe this" lmao, how are you supposed to know what I actually believe? This isn't a real thought process.

Why would I vote Margot when she gave a legitimate reason? If it's a speech quirk and she didn't even say it much I have no reason to turbo elim her over that. It just sounds like you're projecting at this point because you keep saying my posts feel fake, but this legitimately cannot be a real thought process because it makes no logical sense.

Are they real tells or not? If not, and there are example to the contrary, then why would they be considered Tells at all?

This all seems like a genuine argument +town Roden

[Ythan]

This was so uncomfortable to read. Also very unnecessary since it did nothing to change my mind and overall added nothing to the game. LQ isn't scummy because of whatever personal reason Ythan has against him; LQ is scummy because his ISO is full of flip-flopping and opportunistic pushes with flimsy reasoning.

VOTE: LQ

I'd love for you to tell me what pushes I'm made that are opportunistic. If you think my push on Clasko was opportunistic (that the only one I can honestly see as being read that way) then I'd say initially I really thought it was a slip until I thought about it more. I was excited we caught Scum and then I lost confidence in it.

If there's a reason why being flip floppy is a Scum tell, I'd really love to hear it. I think flip floppy more often comes from Town, but what do I know?

Ditto this

[Ythan]

T3 is probably town for the exact reason that Hockey outlined -- it's a huge gambit for scum to do right out the gate, so it seems unlikely.

Why is it Townie given it is Site Meta, which I have already talked about. If you go through other newbie games, I am sure it will be brought up early in the game. Fact check me on that.

Genuine lie? +town Alstro?

[Ythan]

I keep feeling like alstro is not really doing much. I feel like they are just posting to post - like they know they have to post something so they do, but none of it is really convincing because of so much hedging language (which is usually a Scum tell).

Overly detailed for a LQ bus? +town Alstro?

[Ythan]

Locktown: Hockey, Strange, Roden
Town: LQ
POE: Everyone else

Agree with this partly.

Strange seems to be acting townie, and I had a slight suspicion that Astra would not have pulled out if she had rolled Scum (which is very metagamey, which is why I didn't bring it up earlier).

Roden is still a strong Town lean for me, but I don't think I'd lock town yet.

I don't know that LQ has done much to assuage my earlier suspicions. I feel like people backed down from the scum read mainly on the basis of it being a bit of a pile on, and the fact that once I spelled out what I saw as the difference between scum defensiveness and townie defensiveness it changed.

The team I can most easily imagine in my head (which is admittedly pretty wonky at present) still remains Alstro and LQ, but that's a long shot, and doesn't really mean much day 1. Plus, Alstro has been acting far more Townie than previously.

Clasko's an interesting one, though I don't see the slip as an actual slip. Just seems like unfortunate phrasing.

Still think clearest bet for me right now remains LQ.

If I have your reasoning right for why I am Scum it is because my defensiveness changed after you said I was being defensive? And that just because the wagon developed doesn't mean I am Town? I can still be reasonable sometimes just like I can be defensive sometimes. When I explained to alstro that defensiveness isn't a Scum tell for me, the reached the conclusion that it is person dependent whereas you still think me being defensive is a Scum tell. I'm just trying to tell you here that being defensive isn't AI for me. Make of that what you will but it's true.

Seems like he's trying to defuse suspicious townies one by one +town Alstro

[Ythan]

I need to post. I'll try to tonight.

[Ythan]

It is, but I'm sure pretty certain that scum killed last night since if they no killed they just give town more chances since there's two PRs, one mafia, and 5 VTs. Killing would be in my opinion probably one of the worst decisions to make as scum since now there's 3 chances to catch scum since it is a 1v7, then a 1v5, then a 1v3, and then we lose.

None of this matters if scum didn't even log in.

[Ythan]

VOTE: Egix96

[Ythan]

It is, but I'm sure pretty certain that scum killed last night since if they no killed they just give town more chances since there's two PRs, one mafia, and 5 VTs. Killing would be in my opinion probably one of the worst decisions to make as scum since now there's 3 chances to catch scum since it is a 1v7, then a 1v5, then a 1v3, and then we lose.

None of this matters if scum didn't even log in.

Oh wait, what are the chances this happened lol?

Exactly the same as the chances of Clasko/Gramps being scum.

[Ythan]

Gramps is indeed town, scum likely actually shot at me n1.

[Ythan]

Did you just use your inspect on the same person twice?

I explained all of this multiple times yesterday.

[Ythan]

Had literally zero information from n1 track as has been explained.

[Ythan]

His date last visited is still the same in his profile as of this post and is before n1 started.

[Ythan]

This seems like the least useful time to say that.

[Ythan]

You never know.

[Ythan]

Prodge, catchup incoming

[Ythan]

Hmm Strange seems pretty hammerable. Let me double check but that's on the table.

[Ythan]

You can vote me Ythan, but you will get NKed with eliminating me today.

This strikes me as a weird comment.

[Ythan]

As town I had a different reaction to the recent claim. Your response does not fill me with confidence.

[Ythan]

I'll try to review your thoughts on that again but don't wait longer than you're comfortable if you can't be here right up to the deadline.

[Ythan]

Oh right I'm not voting. I'll be around.

[Ythan]

Hey there.

[Ythan]

Oh no Strange is gonna figure out that I'm scum.

[Ythan]

I seriously doubt we’re winning this now.

If this is because you're scum then lol.

[Ythan]

I seriously doubt we’re winning this now.

If this is because you're scum then lol.

No, you'll see.

Definitely.

[Ythan]

Good job town read!

[Ythan]

Good performance Lick, sincerely.

Also this LQ you really seemed possibly town.

[Ythan]

Some day you'll get eliminated for defensiveness as town and then you'll be free but until then it might be rough.

@Lick

[Ythan]

I'm not convinced it wouldn't have worked if it had been managed better but I didn't have to spend much time thinking about it due to the timing of my replace in so I'm not really sure.