[phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/ext/alfredoramos/seometadata/event/listener.php on line 114: Undefined array key 13128932 [phpBB Debug] PHP Warning: in file [ROOT]/ext/alfredoramos/seometadata/event/listener.php on line 114: Trying to access array offset on value of type null Newbie 2084: Signs [game over!] - Mafiascum.net
Post
Post #39 (isolation #4) » Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:12 pm
Postby MegAzumarill »
In post 38, Cape90 wrote:To clarify my whole stance on the read not being "real" it isn't that I feel like the read is disingenuous, it is just a read that feels like it shouldn't actually mean anything, if that makes sense.
As a general rule of thumb you shouldn't openly discredit reads like this unless grounded in bad logic, not just that you disagree.
All it does is hamper town. Each person can decide for themself if they think the point is valid.
No use discussing reads not grounded in evidence though they can be useful.
In post 55, MegAzumarill wrote:It's a personal policy to not start scumhunting till we are certain there are actually scum playing
Nothing that has happened so far has really warranted anything yet though
Well that’s the thing, us discussing is how we create things we can then discuss and read each other off of. I don’t think we should start wagons until all have spoken, but there’s no reason not to throw in some smaller scale reads and create the basic playing field we need to obtain to become productive as a town
I agree it's probably objectively bad for town but as a player I typically do 1 of 2 things.
1 Form reads slowly but have confidence in them
2 Jump on someone that I think is scummy early and death tunnel them forever (ask Greeting)
More interestingly I would like to know why Greeting/Cape think my behavior is AI.
In post 34, Meuh wrote:The invitation just feels like fake confidence and like I said, they never said they scumread you, so it came out of nowhere. I can easily see scum make that post in an attempt to posture as a confident townie willing to die, yknow?
mmmhmm yeah ic
why no vote pressure if u see that as scummy..?
I'd rather pressure someone who hasn't said a word yet, infighting amongst the active players would just reward not being present and allow potential scum to hide out in inactivity, so my vote stays where it is
I do like the idea of this post being that focus should be brought to an inactive slot, but I prefer pressuring people who are active to get a good grasp on their slot, and get a good read going.
EBWOP (I hate my grammar sometimes)
Generally I think that pressuring active players favors town and inactive players should really be pressured if the active players are acting town. Essentially sort the easiest to read players and poe the rest
Post
Post #73 (isolation #9) » Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:17 am
Postby MegAzumarill »
Yeah, it's basically the difference between townhunting and scumhunting, both are perfectably reasonable approaches to the game, and everyone does a little of both
Post
Post #83 (isolation #11) » Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:15 am
Postby MegAzumarill »
I agree I can make posts like 73 and 39 as scum
But I have plenty of reason to do it as town
Which would make it not alignment indicative
Also there was not guaranteed 1 scum spoken by 43, which is what I was referring to.
Do you have a reason I don't make those posts as town?
Post
Post #88 (isolation #15) » Fri Nov 19, 2021 11:51 am
Postby MegAzumarill »
Yeah it reads to me like scum trying to look busy while not really doing anything, part of why it's important for them to give a well detailed reason for their vote, if they can
In post 55, MegAzumarill wrote:It's a personal policy to not start scumhunting till we are certain there are actually scum playing
Nothing that has happened so far has really warranted anything yet though
Well that’s the thing, us discussing is how we create things we can then discuss and read each other off of. I don’t think we should start wagons until all have spoken, but there’s no reason not to throw in some smaller scale reads and create the basic playing field we need to obtain to become productive as a town
I agree it's probably objectively bad for town but as a player I typically do 1 of 2 things.
1 Form reads slowly but have confidence in them
2 Jump on someone that I think is scummy early and death tunnel them forever (ask Greeting)
More interestingly I would like to know why Greeting/Cape think my behavior is AI.
In post 70, MegAzumarill wrote:I would also reiterate I want to hear Greeting's reasons for suspecting me so far. I think it's an important point
I wouldn't say that I find you suspicious so far. As to why my vote is where it is, I'm... testing stuff. This will be pretty vague but let me just say that if I truly wanted this wagon to succeed and had definite thoughts that you were scum, I wouldn't be worrying about you reaching E-2 or E-1.
marcistar wrote:
mm yeah, putting people at e-2 isnt too bad of a thing i think..? as long as we would make it obv. we could always unvote if it looks like some people are setting up for a quick hammer as well.
i agree with (i forgot who said this, but them ), why are u so worried about numbers..? e-1 is where we should be sweating, but if u scumread someone or think somethings helpful, whats bad about putting them to e-2..?
Why am I worried about putting someone at E-2? Because we have two scums who can easily jump on a wagon and seal it. Also, I'm not having someone eliminated without proof or at least a feeling. Wagons can also be used for other purposes than actually voting someone out and that's what I want to do.
I'm really more concerned with the why you got here than the actual result itself.
If you say you're testing something you don't need to reveal quite yet but I would like the why revealed by eod
Post
Post #138 (isolation #18) » Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:50 am
Postby MegAzumarill »
I thought it was pretty well established the wagon on Greeting is because their content feels manufactured.
I agreed and asked for elaboration and didn't like their response. In fact I think some of their recent posting indicates scum.
In post 121, Meuh wrote:Greeting's at E-2, no one else jump on the wagon, E-2 isn't risky but E-1 could be exploited by scum
I can't help but notice that... you're also on that wagon.
I assume that you're voting me out because you think I'm scum. But if I'm scum, then how exactly is my partner going to exploit this wagon?
And if you don't want to vote me out then why are you on my wagon, may I ask?
With this post you sound like someone who wants to sound like a genuine newbie, but what you said doesn't really make any sense. Unless you're doing something similar to what I'm doing with MegAzumarill's wagon.
This reads to me "I want to shade you for this but I am doing the same thing"
Which doesn't make sense from a town!greeting point of view.
In post 121, Meuh wrote:Greeting's at E-2, no one else jump on the wagon, E-2 isn't risky but E-1 could be exploited by scum
I can't help but notice that... you're also on that wagon.
I assume that you're voting me out because you think I'm scum. But if I'm scum, then how exactly is my partner going to exploit this wagon?
And if you don't want to vote me out then why are you on my wagon, may I ask?
With this post you sound like someone who wants to sound like a genuine newbie, but what you said doesn't really make any sense. Unless you're doing something similar to what I'm doing with MegAzumarill's wagon.
I think you're the player most likely to be mafia, but it's a page 6 read, I'm not confident in it. You could be town and I wouldn't be too shocked.
Also, there's no benefit to not being careful here! Another thing to consider would be time as a resource, spending more time today talking will benefit us long term, there's no reason to want you hammered this early, even if I knew 100% that you were maf.
I am doing something similar to what you're doing with Meg's wagon
but you'll notice 2 things:
-It's not the focal points of the posts I made before voting for you (which it was for you before voting for Meg, while I casted actual suspicion before voting)
-I'm scared about E-1, not E-2, which I think is something scum could actually take advantage of here. They'd throw in a vote on you, say it was an accidental hammer and move on, it's something mafia could try to do here and I'd rather not deal with something of the sort.
So no, I don't want you to be hammered here, I think it'd be bad.
Okay, so if you are testing something, then what is it that you're testing?
You really barely answered any of my questions.
You have already said (strongly implied) that you did not to wish to reveal the reasons of your "test" in town's interests. Why would you push for a similar play to be revealed?
In post 142, MegAzumarill wrote:If revealing a similar play wouldn't be benificial to the town, what makes you think revealing this would be?
There are different degrees of similarity. If Meuh has a reason to keep their secret, I won't be a hypocrite and I will respect that. Except it seems that they don't have a secret nor a secret play (132).
That post was after your actions, yet you use it to justify them?
In post 138, MegAzumarill wrote:I thought it was pretty well established the wagon on Greeting is because their content feels manufactured.
I agreed and asked for elaboration and didn't like their response.
In fact I think some of their recent posting indicates scum.
What did you not like about my response?
The fact that I openly stated what I was doing, only withholding
why
I was doing it?
Or the fact that you asked for me to elaborate on it by the end of day and I said yes?
I honestly fail to see your logic.
For the reasons I elaborated on in the following posts, as well as I have yet to see much reads from your direction, much less those that feel like a natural process.
Post
Post #157 (isolation #24) » Sat Nov 20, 2021 10:50 am
Postby MegAzumarill »
(Greeting)
(Another player)
My reads so far:
Town Lean
Hops - I can see the scumhunting on him.
Neutral
Most of the players.
Scum Lean
None so far. Will update info soon.
That was so... uninformative. Would putting you at E-1 speed up the info?
Rereading Greeting's ISO in Newbie 2081 the above quote stood out. Overall Greeting's play in that game (where we both were town) is a lot more transparent than their play here.
The above quote is essentially Greeting scumreading someone for about the same qualities they exhibit this game (lack of reads)
This matters because players (especially new ones) most often scum read behaviors that they themselves do as scum.
I'm going to read their other game on-site in a minute.
Post
Post #160 (isolation #25) » Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:04 am
Postby MegAzumarill »
Newbie 2078 - Greeting Town
Greeting primarily talks about mech and strategy here over actual reads. It contrasts with her play in 2081, but I suspect its mostly due to it being their first game on site.
Take a look if you want but it doesn't feel like much can be drawn between that one and this.
I am still yet to see any townlike qualities from greeting's play this game, but I'll turn my attention elsewhere for now.
Post
Post #162 (isolation #26) » Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:09 am
Postby MegAzumarill »
I like Prism for town, it's clear they are looking at very nuanced reasons to townread the people they do, which I don't feel like would be a concern with scum!prism
Post
Post #166 (isolation #28) » Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:17 am
Postby MegAzumarill »
Prohawk/Azu stucky don't have anything of substance so they get to sit in nulland
marcistar/strangematter have fairly townie posts so far so they get a TL so far (although weaker on strange matter because they lack content, even if I like what they do have)
Scum = players not laigned with town
E-X = a player is X votes away from elimination (death)
Post
Post #168 (isolation #29) » Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:21 am
Postby MegAzumarill »
Also improtant abbreviations
TR/Sr = townread/ scumread (someone you think is town/scum)
TL/SL = townlean /scumlean (the above but less confident)
NR or nullread (no idea what their alignment is)
? Is this based off of Mini Normal 2241?
No not from scum!you just scum in general doesn't have reason to immediately deepdive into a player to try to find minute details to justify a player is town. ( It doesn't serve a purpose, is hard to do naturally, and often isn't convincing evidence to protect a partner. )
Post
Post #169 (isolation #30) » Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:24 am
Postby MegAzumarill »
In general I don't like using meta for reads on players, but despite the similar situation with greeting in 2081, their play pinged me as off so I decided to reread their ISO for that.
Post
Post #172 (isolation #31) » Sat Nov 20, 2021 11:32 am
Postby MegAzumarill »
Meuh is an interesting case, I don't think they are S/S (scum partners) with greeting. I could see town!meuh and scum!greeting or vice versa. I'd like to hear more from the slot and don't want to lim them today.
This leaves a pool of AzuStuckey, greeting, Prohawk lims for today.
In post 172, MegAzumarill wrote:Meuh is an interesting case, I don't think they are S/S (scum partners) with greeting. I could see town!meuh and scum!greeting or vice versa. I'd like to hear more from the slot and don't want to lim them today.
This leaves a pool of AzuStuckey, greeting, Prohawk lims for today.
I'm currently mentally preparing to ISO a bunch of people and drop a readslist later tonight instead of just ISOing Greeting, so you should have some more of that juicy juicy content like you got in 69. (Might end up procrastinating and not doing it, but I'll try my best to )
It's really not a matter of the content you are posting or the amount, but it leans on paranoia so it's probably best not to discuss.
In post 168, MegAzumarill wrote:No not from scum!you just scum in general doesn't have reason to immediately deepdive into a player to try to find minute details to justify a player is town. ( It doesn't serve a purpose, is hard to do naturally, and often isn't convincing evidence to protect a partner. )
It doesn't serve a specific purpose, but many things don't as scum and they're fairly rote?
do you think scum!prism would be more or less likely to express that they were upset with a town/town pairing after witnessing menalque’s reaction to a scum flip in the tarot game?
This post by a scum player was extremely specific about why I was town, but wasn't targeted at getting me specifically to townread the player. It just leveraged pre-existing knowledge to create a believable read for general effect, very similar to my read on marcistar.
I don't want to get too much into the weeds here debating why my own play isn't strongly AI, but this is a strangely lax belief.
I suppose we will see then, although you seem fairly confident and consitent with you doing that in this game. I'll probably give that game a look but from what I see at first, that was more of a passing comment.
(i.e. A single comment wouldn't be out of the question but with you its a repeat offense)
It's possible you are making your life a lot more difficult for towncred but it doesn't feel that way.
Post
Post #232 (isolation #35) » Sun Nov 21, 2021 1:16 pm
Postby MegAzumarill »
Prism why the change of read on Greeting?
And I know I am one of your scumreads so I'm wondering if you think I'm bussing, me/Greeting are s/t or something else
Post
Post #239 (isolation #36) » Sun Nov 21, 2021 2:50 pm
Postby MegAzumarill »
In post 210, Prism wrote:That links to a hidden topic. It is properly formatted for a copy paste (the post number is doubled in the link) and unlikely to be a simple typo.
VOTE: Greeting
I don't see another avenue forward here. Sorry.
This is unclear if the reasons why you are voting here.
Post
Post #241 (isolation #37) » Sun Nov 21, 2021 3:08 pm
Postby MegAzumarill »
In post 240, Prism wrote:The implication is that it is most likely a scum PT. They provided the explanation that it is a notes PT. I find the scum PT more likely.
Are you proposing an elimination over this? I don't see how that accusation can be addressed, and appears to be meaningful enough of you to 180 the slot.
Personally I can give some benefit of the doubt in the situation although I find Greeting scummy on their own.
Post
Post #276 (isolation #40) » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:16 am
Postby MegAzumarill »
In post 268, Meuh wrote:Greeting, I think you’re putting a bit too much emphasis on the way some people talk or general archetypes of players as patterns from past games to define your reads. I skimmed through other games I played with Marci and she didn’t use capital letters more there. Mentors can be town, and they can be scum. I don’t think alignment would change whether or not someone plays as a mentor or if someone suddenly likes capitalizing things.
VOTE: Greeting
If anything their recent play has reinforced my scumread on them.
It's a very easy thing for newer scum players to try and read into styles more so than content because
1. It's easy
2 It's the first thing you notice
3 They don't actually need to use the content to solve the game
Post
Post #278 (isolation #41) » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:18 am
Postby MegAzumarill »
In post 261, ProHawk wrote:Real quick, initial impressions are that Greeting doesn't feel like opportunistic scum for vote hopping to marci who is generally town-read in the thread.
Probably going to take a peek at Prism, getting scum-vibes there ATM.
Post
Post #279 (isolation #42) » Mon Nov 22, 2021 10:24 am
Postby MegAzumarill »
Also; as soon as the initial push on Greeting started, they and strange have been oddly silent about each other. (As far as I see their last mention was on Greeting.
It feels like intentional distancing to me if I'm right about greeting, because they've interacted with almost every other slot far as I can tell
Post
Post #283 (isolation #44) » Mon Nov 22, 2021 11:55 am
Postby MegAzumarill »
I would like to hear about Greeting's radio silence on Strange until their last post when they managed to fit "null read" into a bigger paragraph than any of their actual reads
That was so... uninformative. Would putting you at E-1 speed up the info?
Rereading Greeting's ISO in Newbie 2081 the above quote stood out. Overall Greeting's play in that game (where we both were town) is a lot more transparent than their play here.
The above quote is essentially Greeting scumreading someone for about the same qualities they exhibit this game (lack of reads)
This matters because players (especially new ones) most often scum read behaviors that they themselves do as scum.
I'm going to read their other game on-site in a minute.
In post 160, MegAzumarill wrote:Newbie 2078 - Greeting Town
Greeting primarily talks about mech and strategy here over actual reads. It contrasts with her play in 2081, but I suspect its mostly due to it being their first game on site.
Take a look if you want but it doesn't feel like much can be drawn between that one and this.
I am still yet to see any townlike qualities from greeting's play this game, but I'll turn my attention elsewhere for now.
Here's the links to games/ my previous thoughts on that but I'll do a more in depth explanation later. In general this Greeting seems a lot less proactive and is exhibiting behaviors they scumread others for IIRC
In post 268, Meuh wrote:Greeting, I think you’re putting a bit too much emphasis on the way some people talk or general archetypes of players as patterns from past games to define your reads. I skimmed through other games I played with Marci and she didn’t use capital letters more there. Mentors can be town, and they can be scum. I don’t think alignment would change whether or not someone plays as a mentor or if someone suddenly likes capitalizing things.
VOTE: Greeting
If anything their recent play has reinforced my scumread on them.
It's a very easy thing for newer scum players to try and read into styles more so than content because
1. It's easy
2 It's the first thing you notice
3 They don't actually need to use the content to solve the game
why wouldnt his partner tell him to stop after the first time?
Which player here would you even think would have both the confidence and means to try and micromanage their partner in such a way?
Post
Post #303 (isolation #48) » Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:14 pm
Postby MegAzumarill »
In 2081 Greeting from the gate is proactive and inquisitive, leans more aggresive than passive responds to pressure with transparency and explanation.
In this game they start off slow, responds to pressure with deflection, doesn't even feign giving reasons for most of their action, generally uninquisitive.
I mean it's pretty much night and day if you want to read it yourself
In post 284, MegAzumarill wrote:I think Greeting> Strange mattet would be my solve atm, I'm fairly confident this is not the Town!greeting from our last game.
Seriously, have you even read my posts? I’ve been reading elsewhere and yet it’s just distancing to you? Do you not understand that people have ACTUAL places they want to focus on at this moment?
Maybe you should try actually giving some info to the game? You just look like lazy newbscum not giving input at this point so speak up if you are town