Newbie 2104 | Wikipedia Articles | Game Over!
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faüstiv
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faüstiv Goon
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i'm a pacifist
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faüstiv Goon
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faüstiv
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faüstiv Goon
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I don't think it's a scumslip, but Sterling's lack of reaction to your accusation is concerning me.In post 45, Maestro wrote:wait, though... actually follow me on this:
"I got a role PM with a name that isn't mine"
*votes that name*
e.g. Role PM received by Sterling, which they didn't realize was also theirs, or for their slot's predecessor, made them vote their predecessor's slot
Sterling got a scum role PM
VOTE: Sterling
Also I think Maestro is town based on the above.-
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faüstiv
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faüstiv Goon
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faüstiv Goon
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feel it's important information in terms of trying to sort you as i currently have my vote on you and you do come across as an inexperienced player (and don't take offense to that as none is intended, we all gotta start somewhere).In post 69, Sterling the steampunk wrote:well I used to play Town of Salem and I've played on the eurobricks forum once, also have a few game of camp cadaver under my belt, and I used to play amongus before it stopped working for me, why do you ask?-
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faüstiv Goon
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i mean sterling's reaction is the first thing that pinged me this game, so naturally i'm going to push that slot. in terms of sterling's response, i'm still unsure of his alignment. i'm just concerned that he didn't defend himself as vehemently as i would expect from a town player given maestro's reasoning behind his vote. i'm happy with where my vote lies at the time being.In post 82, catboi wrote:I think sterling's reaction to maestro feels over the top but can just aseasily come from a newer player who's not used to people making social reads getting upset they'e being accused so strongly.
VOTE: faustiv
I do think trying to string up sterling for a "lack of reaction" to Maestro's scumslip accusation feels opportunist - it had been less than an hour since Maestro posted it and sterling was clearly still catching up. On some other site's there's a higher emphasis on real time interaction but on here that amount of time lag isn't really a big deal and him trying to act like it was incriminating doesn't sit right with me. I saw scum use a similar argument in a recent game (although they were actually bussing their buddy in that instance). Then when sterling did come back and provided an explanation I thought was eminently reasonable, faustiv didn't really comment on it, which suggests to me he wasn't that concerned with getting a response in the first place and was just looking for a target to push.-
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faüstiv Goon
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what do you mean by private thread?In post 78, Sterling the steampunk wrote:when do you consider RVS to be over? because I'm just not as good at getting reads due to the way the game is played on amongus and Town of Salem so really I don't have a good reason to vote anyone, Also isn't it your job to help new players out? instead you just started a bandwagon on me due to a confusion, also what about my confused comments did you glanced that I had a private thread? because the player list haven't been updated when I first posted. you know, trying to start a bangwagon on a new and confused player is pretty sus to me therefore VOTE: Maestro-
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faüstiv
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faüstiv Goon
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eh, i could see it, but i've not sorted him yet as i wasn't sure if that was just his style of posting or not. will need to see more content from him.
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faüstiv Goon
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faüstiv Goon
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yeah, though it is the weekend so I'll give him a pass.In post 106, kkirigiri wrote:
Yeah, I was hoping they'd have posted again by now too, but I gave it a day and figured I may as well try to advance the game at this point.In post 104, faüstiv wrote:eh, i could see it, but i've not sorted him yet as i wasn't sure if that was just his style of posting or not. will need to see more content from him.
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faüstiv Goon
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yeah, though it is the weekend so I'll give him a pass.In post 106, kkirigiri wrote:
Yeah, I was hoping they'd have posted again by now too, but I gave it a day and figured I may as well try to advance the game at this point.In post 104, faüstiv wrote:eh, i could see it, but i've not sorted him yet as i wasn't sure if that was just his style of posting or not. will need to see more content from him.
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faüstiv Goon
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nah, I no-voted to gauge reactions.In post 110, kkirigiri wrote:Just a little question for you, was the 'no elimination' vote in any way directed as a way to troll me? Won't hold it against you if it was, just it was always a pet hate of mine to see people waste mis-elims* in chat mafia haha.
*will take me a while to get used to saying it that way-
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faüstiv Goon
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faüstiv Goon
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faüstiv Goon
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Don’t really see how I’m a ‘sleeper’ as I’ve been actively participating throughout. As I’ve said previously, I’m not committing to a readlist until I’ve seen contributions from Rockhopper’s slot.
What I will say though is that I have two strong townreads and one decent scumread so far. I’ll explain these particular reads later on when I’m at a PC.-
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faüstiv Goon
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Calling sterling a dumbass is also a bit rude don’t you think? He’s doing a decent job.In post 133, Fennec wrote:Yeah, Faust IS on E-2. I really don't know how to feel about that. oh and also because I remembered my predecessor voted you,
UNVOTE: Faust-
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faüstiv
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faüstiv Goon
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hi
Steampunk is town. I did want to push on him to get more of a feel for his slot, but his playstyle is more in line with newbie town rather than newbie scum. Steampunk is clearly not considering the content of his posts, which has lead to confusion around his role PM in #22 and the private thread in #80. His haphazard voting style is also in line with newbie-town rather than newbie-scum. From experience, newbie scum are more likely to be more tepid and reserved and try and resist placing votes (especially ones controversial in the gamestate such as the Maestro vote who is a widely townread player) as they don't want to fall under suspicion. Whilst Steampunk's reasons for his votes don't make much sense (imo), the fact that heisthrowing votes around on a whim suggests that he's not overly concerned on what he posts and whether his posts are coming off as scummy. I also believe that if Sterling is mafia, then his partner can only be Fennec (TheftOFARose) or Rockhopper as I believe everyone else in the game would have at least coached him on how to play the day as mafia to avoid arousing suspicion. Theft, being a new player himself and Rockhopper being inactive are the only two possibiliites I have for his partner with the above logic in mind. Therefore, with this in mind, coupled with me believing that Steampunk is town, means that he should be immune from today's vote as we don't gain a lot of information from his elimination.
My townread on Maestro mainly comes from sharing a similar thought processs on the gamestate as I did. I was concerned with Catboi's post regarding meta which Maestro highlights in #15 and #38 is also a valid point as I couldn't see anything particularly scummy prior to kkgiri's post where he announces that he has a scumread. #44, #45, #46 reads like a natural progression on a read and the posts are tonally quite town. Generally, when you share the same thought process and share the same reactions to factors within the gamestate, then it indicates that those two people are of the same alignment. I know I am town so based on this, I am inclined to believe that Maestro is also indeed town.-
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faüstiv Goon
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My primary FOS is on catboi.
As stated by Maestro, catboi openly claiming that he changes his meta makes looking at his previous town/scum games moot because nothing useful can be deciphered and any argument you could make based off of his behaviour in a previous game can be argued away.
Catboi's initial posts read as if he's trying to appear reasonable and not step on any toes:
#11:
#18:Hi Thynhith! Sorry about miselimming you last time we played together >_>
I'm glad to see you're back, though! Hopefully things go better this time.
Why do you see that post as "high-effort"?
Then in #51 he justifies his vote on Ceejay with the below:I don't think I've ever played with Maestro. Granted, I've forgotten more games than most people have played, but the name doesn't ring any bells.
Ah, thought the vote was at least semi-serious and wanted to pry at your reasoning because I didn't actually believe there was a lot of "thought" put into that post.I don't mind you coming at me like this though.
He claims his vote on Ceejay is a legitimate vote but uses an excuse "could be nothing, it's RVS" to give himself justification to jump off his wagon.It's a very thin thing but in my experience scum are more likely to make that type of RVS post where it's "short statement"/vote, trying to do just enough to blend in while not getting directly involved, didn't really interact with other people.It could turn out to be absolutely nothing of course, but it's RVS.
#81 irks me, not because of the vote, but because I was a scumread player at the time. This isn't so bad in isolation, but he then jumps on Steampunk based on my reasoning, which I found perculiar at the time. His reasoning for agreeing with me seems flimsy and his progression on the Steampunk read seems kind of off. Steampunk had a wagon forming him on that point and whilst catboi was tiptoeing around the issue and asking Steampunk questions, he never felt really committed to the scumread until he placed his vote on him and I don't think the reason behind the read is super strong. Sterling's ambiguous explanation behind the role PM thing also gives scum a good opening to perhaps misrepresent him and get a bandwagon on him and personally, I think catboi's behaviour is that of a player who is looking for mislynches and not scum, therefore:
VOTE: catboi-
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faüstiv Goon
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i'd rather you evaluate him now tbhIn post 163, Maestro wrote:Or rather you specifically should vote Sterling for now, Faust, then I will be happy to reevaluate catboi later-
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faüstiv Goon
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Sure, it's all speculation and I accept that the logic isn't flawless, but I think it's largely on point.In post 172, catboi wrote:
While I can see where you're coming from with this read, I don't think the logic holds up. The thing s while yo view the maestro vote as contrversial it's basically an OMGUS vote, which newbie scum are pretty prone to as well, and beyond that he's not actually made any votes he actually meant anything by. Also, your theory about "he'd be coached more" doesn't really mesh with reality - and you should know, you've been scum in newbie games before. From having played in a lot of newbie games and modded a couple, scum usually...just don't talk to each other that much. You're imagining a greater degree of planning than most scumteam in newbie games actually put iin. Lastly, your final point falls apart for me - If you believe sterling's only possible partners are the slots that were inactive, thenIn post 159, faüstiv wrote:Steampunk is town. I did want to push on him to get more of a feel for his slot, but his playstyle is more in line with newbie town rather than newbie scum. Steampunk is clearly not considering the content of his posts, which has lead to confusion around his role PM in #22 and the private thread in #80. His haphazard voting style is also in line with newbie-town rather than newbie-scum. From experience, newbie scum are more likely to be more tepid and reserved and try and resist placing votes (especially ones controversial in the gamestate such as the Maestro vote who is a widely townread player) as they don't want to fall under suspicion. Whilst Steampunk's reasons for his votes don't make much sense (imo), the fact that he is throwing votes around on a whim suggests that he's not overly concerned on what he posts and whether his posts are coming off as scummy. I also believe that if Sterling is mafia, then his partner can only be Fennec (TheftOFARose) or Rockhopper as I believe everyone else in the game would have at least coached him on how to play the day as mafia to avoid arousing suspicion.Theft, being a new player himself and Rockhopper being inactive are the only two possibiliites I have for his partner with the above logic in mind. Therefore, with this in mind, coupled with me believing that Steampunk is town, means that he should be immune from today's vote as we don't gain a lot of information from his elimination.he still has viable partners. From my point of view I have absolutely no reason to clear him based on that. If he actually flipped scum, wouldn't you then have information on who his partners are? If you just stop and say you think he's town, full stop, that's fine to argue, but I don't like the "no information" defense. Too often that leads to people not killing scummy players for being scummy as they instead go for hero eliminations.
Additionally, as it concerns your theory of sterling's potential teammates, Here is my current view of the game, in short:
I believe Maestro is town who is looking for scum.
I believe kirigiri is town who is looking for scum.
I believe Thynhith is probably town who is looking for scum
I believe you are probably town who is looking for scum but is mistaken (or you've fooled me, in which case, congratulations)
You might say "is looking for scum" is a low bar, but in newbie games thinking about the game on a basic level will usually work. For newer players it'susuallyeasier to figure out when they're town because the genuineness shines through. I have a ~fairly decent track record of locating scum in newbie games in part by identifying who is obvious town. I can elaborate on these reads but I feel pretty good about them right now and if I'm right on all my townreads then the game is basically already won.
Now, maybe it's not sterling who scum, and the scum are within ceejay/fennec/rockhopper. That's totally possible! But at that moment in time I felt my vote was most useful in pressuring sterling. Fennec had only just replaced in. ceejay's posts so far have been very "whatever" but I figured I'd give him a little more time. I thought sterling was a little awkward in response to maestro and I actually feel like a townie would have protested their innocence a little more strongly.
Based on my experience of being scum in forum mafia, there is at least a bit of interaction at the start of the game where the two mafia strategize etc. No mafia chatroom is going to be completely quiet. Looking at the playerbase:
me/kk would not let Steampunk make the first couple of posts that he made. Sure, you could argue that if Steampunk is mafia, he could have made that initial post without guidsnce, but Steampunk replaced into the game at gamestart and didn't post in the thread for a number of hours after the game began. We also would have coached Steampunk at some point during the game (he is now aware that threads exist after all) I'm also inclined to believe that Maestro/Catboi would also have coached Steampunk to not react and post in the way he is currently posting.
Thrayanth/ceejay could theoretically be his parter but again, I believe both members would have coached Steampunk at some stage. Steampunk clearly hasn't been coached at any point during this game and now that he knows a mafia thread is a thing, whywouldn'tthe partner at least advise him on how to act, how to blend in etc. seeing as his playstyle has not changed from his first post to his latest. Steampunk's haphazard, brazen, all guns blazing approach would also not happen under the guidance of an experienced partner.
Yes, he could make that initial post as scum, but to act the way he's acted all game and not have an experienced player alongside him? I find it hard to believe. It's not as if Steampunk is expendable either since we could potentially have a cop, tracker or masons depending on the setup. Mafia know that at least one of these roles is a possibility in this game and Mafia are very unlikely to bus their partner day 1 if they can help it.
This is speculative. You even said yourself that players alter their playsyles game by game.You might say "is looking for scum" is a low bar, but in newbie games thinking about the game on a basic level will usually work. For newer players it'susuallyeasier to figure out when they're town because the genuineness shines through. I have a ~fairly decent track record of locating scum in newbie games in part by identifying who is obvious town. I can elaborate on these reads but I feel pretty good about them right now and if I'm right on all my townreads then the game is basically already won.
I would like to see you elaborate on these reads as any scum can 'scumhunt'.I believe Maestro is town who is looking for scum.
I believe kirigiri is town who is looking for scum.
I believe Thynhith is probably town who is looking for scum
I believe you are probably town who is looking for scum but is mistaken (or you've fooled me, in which case, congratulations)-
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faüstiv Goon
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It's not in relation to Thryinth specifically and I don't really care about any previous games you've played with him. The tone came across as someone who is trying to appear reasonable and not try to create any sort of 'controversy' as I stated in my post:Bth of those posts are addressed to a singular player - Thynhith. The first one is me apologizing for mis-eliminating him on Day 1 in our last game. I felt incredibly bad for doing so because I had initially townread him and then second guessed it, and he didn't play again after that, so I thought it might have made him leave the site entirely. Me greeting the only player in the game I've played with before is not "trying to appear reasonable and not step on any toes".
Secondly, on that page, Thynhith tried to call me out for my intro. I actually thought it was towny for him to do so, for reasons I've gone into. Shows a little bit of pattern recognition and a scumhuntin mindset, and I think he'd be less likely to try to push me here. I don't think it's unreasonable of to think my response there could be scum motivated - I probably wouldn't want to push back too strongly on Thyn if I was scum. But the thing is, I'm town and I don't think Thyn had scum motivation in attacking me. So you need to tell me - why does that post make you think specifically that I as scum trying not to "step on any toes"? Why ca't I be town who is townreading Thynhith?
It's a line that pinged me, hence why I brought it up. Scum will try to look reasonable and make out that they're not afraid to be scrutinized to gain town trust.I don't think I've ever played with Maestro. Granted, I've forgotten more games than most people have played, but the name doesn't ring any bells.
Ah, thought the vote was at least semi-serious and wanted to pry at your reasoning because I didn't actually believe there was a lot of "thought" put into that post.I don't mind you coming at me like this though.-
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faüstiv Goon
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It's that comment about "it could be nothing, it's just RVS" which stood out. It gives scum an out to move onto other wagons as, if questioned, scum can just argue that it was just part of RVS as an excuse and use the post as evidence to back up their reasoning.In post 175, catboi wrote:
Yeah, so? It was a page 1 RVS vote where my reasons were incredibly weak. What's the big deal about having justification to jump off from an early vote? No one else at the time had struck me as scummier but a vote from page 1 is basically a dart throw. Like, yes - you are correct that I was allowing myself to move my vote off ceejay at a later point in time. But why is thatIn post 161, faüstiv wrote:Then in #51 he justifies his vote on Ceejay with the below:
He claims his vote on Ceejay is a legitimate vote but uses an excuse "could be nothing, it's RVS" to give himself justification to jump off his wagon.It's a very thin thing but in my experience scum are more likely to make that type of RVS post where it's "short statement"/vote, trying to do just enough to blend in while not getting directly involved, didn't really interact with other people.It could turn out to be absolutely nothing of course, but it's RVS.scummy?-
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faüstiv Goon
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Fair enough I get that, but I'm not sure how you can PoE him at this stage of the game. As I say, I'd like to see you elaborate more on your townreads.In post 176, catboi wrote:
You're right that my explanation wasn't that strong. I got lazy in my reasoning rather than fully explaining myself. Thats my bad. But I explained it up above - I think Sterling has a high chance of being scum by POE and your arguments for townreading him don't do a whole lot for me. Is that a little bit clearer?In post 161, faüstiv wrote:#81 irks me, not because of the vote, but because I was a scumread player at the time. This isn't so bad in isolation, but he then jumps on Steampunk based on my reasoning, which I found perculiar at the time. His reasoning for agreeing with me seems flimsy and his progression on the Steampunk read seems kind of off. Steampunk had a wagon forming him on that point and whilst catboi was tiptoeing around the issue and asking Steampunk questions, he never felt really committed to the scumread until he placed his vote on him and I don't think the reason behind the read is super strong. Sterling's ambiguous explanation behind the role PM thing also gives scum a good opening to perhaps misrepresent him and get a bandwagon on him and personally, I think catboi's behaviour is that of a player who is looking for mislynches and not scum, therefore:
VOTE: catboi-
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faüstiv Goon
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@kk
Yes he is, but he's clearly a new player and he highlights that he's not used to forum mafia and I think I can believe him. I'm honestly a bit concerned that so many players are focusing on Steampunk's supposed slip and not his actions past the slip which I think give a bigger indicator into his alignment than the supposed "scumslip" does.Thing is, he may be new to this particular site, but as he has mentioned, he is not new to online mafia, or even forum mafia specifically.
In fact, if we were to accept his justification for bringing up private mafia threads, then we also have to accept him being already familiar with forum mafia and its conventions.
I admit that I don't quite follow his rational for voting Maestro, but I don't really see it as a towntell, and not all scumtells relate to being overly self-conscious.
We don't know, but there was ample time in between gamestart and Steampunk's initial post. I'm also questioning why his playstyle hasn't really changed over the course of the game and I believe that it;s either because he's town and doesn't care what he's posting or he's scum and has an inactive/inexperienced partner. Steampunk knows now that separate mafia threads are a thing, so why has no one had a word in his ear? I've addressed this in a response to catboi.I'm not sure that's true; Sterling came late into the game and as such, their mafia partner might not have had time to address them personally before they started posting in the main game thread, and even if they did (or had posted similar advice for the original player in the slot, who was also new), it's not certain that Sterling would have taken said advice on board.
Basically, I think he's town and probability also suggests to me that he's town too. If we lynch him and he's town like I believe, then we don't really get much information from his lynch.-
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faüstiv Goon
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do you have any initial reads?In post 207, thewingfan wrote:
Thanks, but i don't know how much help I'm gonna be. Other than wrapping my head around a single day here, being as long as an entire game where I normally play at. I largely play with the same core group of folks over and over so kind of know how everyone plays so that's a challenge too. Add in trying to learn a whole new set of terminology. and my long time stance that D1 is for excrements and giggles.In post 206, Thynhith wrote:
Just fyi, D1 is 10 days and every game-day hence is 7 real days. So games can drag on for a looong time (but tend to speed up when we have more info). By the time D2 starts I have a good read on maybe half the players.In post 197, thewingfan wrote:So I'm new to this site and all. But play ALL the time elsewhere on forums. This thing bugs me a bit.
"Think less when posting, nobody will get mad if you're slightly unclear, just answer questions and show genuine interest, but I will get annoyed by Day 2 if I can't get read on you just fyi"
Where I normally play, we have players who I can't read by D5 or D6. But then again a day lasts like 8 hours normally there. D2 seems a bit impatient to me?
Anyway, welcome to the game! Looking forward to hearing fresh thoughts
Gonna be a STEEP learning curve.-
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faüstiv Goon
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faüstiv Goon
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Don't really get that logic. I agree that a steampunk/catboi team is very unlikely but I can't see anything to suggest that catboi/maestro or catboi/thryinth can't be a team. Thryinth has a vote on catboi but hasn't really been pushing the slot and Maestro has been wanting Steampunk offed most of the game. Their day interactions can easily be faked.In post 211, kkirigiri wrote:I've been going over possible scum combinations in my head in case I'm barking up the wrong tree. Don't think if catboi is scum that any of Thyn, faust, Maestro or Sterling should be his partners - which brings me back to my question to faust as to what information we would get by voting him; I'd like an answer to that.
Also welcome to the game wingfan, glad to have the full complement at last.
When I speak about information we would gain in terms of votes, I'm not always talking about whatever role catboi will flip. Through votes we can analyse voting patterns, wagon speed, reactions to being under pressure etc.
At this stage, we don't gain an awful lot if catboi is lynched and is town, but we will gain a lot by placing votes either on him or other players and putting pressure on those slots. We can then look at those voting patterns later down the line once we have confirmed player alignments. Ergo if catboi flips town, then we can analyse the wagon, same as if he flips scum we can review those who were perhaps hesitant to place a vote on him.
Not voting anyone and not putting pressure on slots only help scum.-
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faüstiv Goon
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You could be, I'm just highlighting something that pinged me. Sure, it's not 'strong evidence' and not a line that's directly indicative to a particular alignment, but it's something that caught my eye and so I felt I should question it. You claiming it to be 'tunnelling' seems like a bit of an overreaction to me.In post 186, faüstiv wrote:
Bth of those posts are addressed to a singular player - Thynhith. The first one is me apologizing for mis-eliminating him on Day 1 in our last game. I felt incredibly bad for doing so because I had initially townread him and then second guessed it, and he didn't play again after that, so I thought it might have made him leave the site entirely. Me greeting the only player in the game I've played with before is not "trying to appear reasonable and not step on any toes".
Secondly, on that page, Thynhith tried to call me out for my intro. I actually thought it was towny for him to do so, for reasons I've gone into. Shows a little bit of pattern recognition and a scumhuntin mindset, and I think he'd be less likely to try to push me here. I don't think it's unreasonable of to think my response there could be scum motivated - I probably wouldn't want to push back too strongly on Thyn if I was scum. But the thing is, I'm town and I don't think Thyn had scum motivation in attacking me. So you need to tell me - why does that post make you think specifically that I as scum trying not to "step on any toes"? Why ca't I be town who is townreading Thynhith?
It's not in relation to Thryinth specifically and I don't really care about any previous games you've played with him. The tone came across as someone who is trying to appear reasonable and not try to create any sort of 'controversy' as I stated in my post:
I don't think I've ever played with Maestro. Granted, I've forgotten more games than most people have played, but the name doesn't ring any bells.
Ah, thought the vote was at least semi-serious and wanted to pry at your reasoning because I didn't actually believe there was a lot of "thought" put into that post. I don't mind you coming at me like this though.
It's a line that pinged me, hence why I brought it up. Scum will try to look reasonable and make out that they're not afraid to be scrutinized to gain town trust.
okay but why can't I be town saying that? you're not actually answering anything I'm asking you're just tunneled on an idea of what scum will do on page 1
No, I was specifically highlighting the 'it's only RVS' line in that. I never suggested that players shouldn't move to other wagons, I was merely highlighting the fact that scum will put something in a vote like the 'it's only RVS' line so that they can jump onto other wagons without much heat coming to their slot because they can use that 'it was only RVS' as a defense. Again, not directly alignment indicative, but it's something I've see scum do often. That second line is again, a bit of an overreaction to what I've said whilst also misrepresenting what I've said. Part of your case on Fennec is his overreaction to being scrutinized, yet you now seem to be doing it.lol why would someone not want to move onto other wagons from a vote on the first page of the game? are you suggesting everyone has to be glued to their vote? that's not how rvs works
i'm sorry this is the most ridiculous thing i've read all week
In terms of your final post, I want to see more from thewingfan before I post a readlist. He hasn't really done anything as of yet.-
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faüstiv Goon
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out readlistIn post 204, ceejayvinoya wrote:
I usually like this because there is less pressure on me but this almost feels weird.In post 203, catboi wrote:oh, and on ceejay too - i literally forgot he was in the game when i was writing that post
I wasn't included in any reads lists so far and I haven't interacted with anybody either since Thynhith.
No complaints though.-
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faüstiv Goon
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My experience is different to yours, you can look at the scumchat of the one scumgame I've played on this site for example. Having read other scumchats from other games (out of boredom more than anything) then I've seen that there is atI just don't think we're going to see eye to eye on this point, because I'm telling you in my experience almost no mafia teams are that coordinatedleastsome co-ordination in there. That said, it is always going to be a game-by-game basis, but I just don't see why no one wouldn't have had a word in Steampunk's ear at some point during the game, particularly the players I've stated are unlikely to be teamed with him.
Thank U.For Maestro I just mainly don't believe the scumslip case on sterling comes from scum. The only thing I could ding him for is falling off a bit after that initial burst but that wouldn't be fair when pretty much everyone has.
kkirigiri has been probably the most analytical poster out of everyone. 105, 135, 136, and 153 all strike me as sincere efforts at analyzing the game from a newer player - she's prodding at people, investigating their wording, getting suspicious of people. For a newer player this is basically sufficient for a townread.
thynhith i already said I feel doesn't act that way toward me at the start of the game as mafia. I've just had decent vibes from his posts, it feels like the effort is there. I might b biased because of my last game with him but nothing he's said has struck me as off.
You, I think if you were scum you'd be much more likely to push someone other than me, because I would not look like an easy targe to most scum. I wouldn't expect you to back off sterling the way you did when he had not received any additional pressure, it didn't look like a backing off to grab towncred but a genuine change of mind. I also don't think your case against me is in bad faith - it's wrong and incredibly misguided but the way you're arguing it feels genuine to me.
For information, treat kk as if he was an SE. He's not new to mafia.-
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faüstiv Goon
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I believe this puts Fennec on L-1.In post 220, Sterling the steampunk wrote:seeing how kkirgiri who played mafia on other sites before, and judging how she was able to get a read very early, I guess she's more used to playing by reads rather than power roles, I'm inclined to believe her feels. as well as Cat having suspicions and groups being able to make better guesses than individuals VOTE: Fennec
I still personally have stronger suspicions on maestro but the group is stronger than the induvialAnyone who is intenting to vote him should announce an intent to hammer prior to doing so.-
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faüstiv Goon
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Probability of Steampunk being partnered with someone. He's unlikely to be partner with Fennec now either given his recent vote.In post 221, Thynhith wrote:
What's this probability you were speaking of?In post 189, faüstiv wrote: Basically, I think he's town and probability also suggests to me that he's town too. If we lynch him and he's town like I believe, then we don't really get much information from his lynch.-
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faüstiv Goon
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please could we have a vote count as there have been quite a few votes placed since the last one.
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faüstiv Goon
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Force of habit. I haven't played mafia since my last game here where I was scum. "Lynch" was the common term used back then but yeah,I can see why the word causes controversy. I'll try and avoid using the word from now on.In post 232, Maestro wrote:
hoo boy this post, feels like ultra-sheep scum flying under the radar to anyone else? "The group is stronger than the individual but I have done no work to try to convince the group of my individual assertion that Maestro is Scum, so now I will just sheep somebody else who has been more nice to me than mean ol Maestro who is Scumreading me so I Scumread them back..."In post 220, Sterling the steampunk wrote:seeing how kkirgiri who played mafia on other sites before, and judging how she was able to get a read very early, I guess she's more used to playing by reads rather than power roles, I'm inclined to believe her feels. as well as Cat having suspicions and groups being able to make better guesses than individuals VOTE: Fennec
I still personally have stronger suspicions on maestro but the group is stronger than the induvial
like what
@ Faust you have to stop using the L word, I'm surprised mod hasn't warned on it yet tbh
I will post more when you all are more interesting, why the votes on Fennec? Maybe I missed something-
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faüstiv Goon
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In post 226, catboi wrote:In post 217, faüstiv wrote:You could be, I'm just highlighting something that pinged me. Sure, it's not 'strong evidence' and not a line that's directly indicative to a particular alignment, but it's something that caught my eye and so I felt I should question it. You claiming it to be 'tunnelling' seems like a bit of an overreaction to me.
is it an overreaction when you're set on reading sinister intent into literally everything I say? I feel like you're being very unreasonable here. You're not even meaningfully addressing what I'm saying.In post 217, faüstiv wrote:No, I was specifically highlighting the 'it's only RVS' line in that. I never suggested that players shouldn't move to other wagons, I was merely highlighting the fact that scum will put something in a vote like the 'it's only RVS' line so that they can jump onto other wagons without much heat coming to their slot because they can use that 'it was only RVS' as a defense. Again, not directly alignment indicative, but it's something I've see scum do often. That second line is again, a bit of an overreaction to what I've said whilst also misrepresenting what I've said. Part of your case on Fennec is his overreaction to being scrutinized, yet you now seem to be doing it.
Why is it a bad thing to move a vote off from someone after RVS? Why is that scummy? Don't dodge, answer me clearly.
I think you are misunderstanding what I'm trying to say.In post 227, catboi wrote:like I was thinking you were sincere but misguided but this current argument suggesting saying "it's only RVS" about a page 1 vote is really bullshit and you've played here before, you should know how early game voting works, trying to attack me for that is nonsense
You making the RVS vote post pinged me and I wanted to explore it. My point isn't exclusive to RVS; scum could place an FOS/vote on a player for example like the below:
I think catboi is scum. He's overreating a lot and I find that scummy,but I could be wrong.
Your "it's only RVS" is in similar vein to the examples listed above. It pinged me and I wanted to question it. I'm not saying RVS is scummy or moving out of RVS is scummy, I'm just making the point that scum can say something as an excuse to 'back out' of a vote, which I've seen scum do numerous times. In your case, it was the "RVS" which I picked up.I think catboi is scum. He's overreating a lot and I find that scummy,but I guess town could do it too.-
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faüstiv Goon
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assuming by this you townread steampunk then? what's your thoughts on the other players, including steampunk?In post 243, thewingfan wrote:
Apologies if this is a double post.... but I wanted to make sure this got answered and even though I hit submit and was told it did get posted.....I don't see it.In post 208, faüstiv wrote:
do you have any initial reads?In post 207, thewingfan wrote:
Thanks, but i don't know how much help I'm gonna be. Other than wrapping my head around a single day here, being as long as an entire game where I normally play at. I largely play with the same core group of folks over and over so kind of know how everyone plays so that's a challenge too. Add in trying to learn a whole new set of terminology. and my long time stance that D1 is for excrements and giggles.In post 206, Thynhith wrote:
Just fyi, D1 is 10 days and every game-day hence is 7 real days. So games can drag on for a looong time (but tend to speed up when we have more info). By the time D2 starts I have a good read on maybe half the players.In post 197, thewingfan wrote:So I'm new to this site and all. But play ALL the time elsewhere on forums. This thing bugs me a bit.
"Think less when posting, nobody will get mad if you're slightly unclear, just answer questions and show genuine interest, but I will get annoyed by Day 2 if I can't get read on you just fyi"
Where I normally play, we have players who I can't read by D5 or D6. But then again a day lasts like 8 hours normally there. D2 seems a bit impatient to me?
Anyway, welcome to the game! Looking forward to hearing fresh thoughts
Gonna be a STEEP learning curve.
VOTE: Maestro
I don't like how quick he was to jump on Sterling for what looked to me to be newbie confusion. I could very well be projecting my own confusion on to Sterling but this forum system doesn't make any sense-yet
RVS = Random Vote Stage. It's where votes are placed at random at the start of the game with the purpose of instigating discussion.-
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faüstiv Goon
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so is he new scum or new town because you have been tunnelling him all game with the 'slip' being the basis of your argument.In post 251, Maestro wrote:
Yeah the time to vote me for "jumping on newbie confusion" as some kind of punishment is long past, the scumslip was a fun theory/idea but his behavior since has been n o t h i n g but platitudes and reactionary "suspicion" on me for jumping at him when he couldn't handle it, screams either incompetent (sorry, just trying to communicate effectively not trying to be rude) newbScum or reactionary newbTown, it's just an opinion different to me from there on out which you go withIn post 246, kkirigiri wrote:
I think Sterling's continuation from when he was first voted by Maestro is more telling than Maestro's scumslip theory.In post 243, thewingfan wrote:
VOTE: Maestro
I don't like how quick he was to jump on Sterling for what looked to me to be newbie confusion. I could very well be projecting my own confusion on to Sterling but this forum system doesn't make any sense-yet
Edit By Way Of Post/EBWOP (we usually post this, for example, when I'm typing then I hit preview and I see kiri's #248): yeah, full disclosure, this is definitely a Thing I have done before, I think, in a game, hardbus a partner out of the gate... I don't think I've ever done it in a newbie game and probably not to a newbie I don't think? But see, it's not unheard of that I could be partners with somebody and do this... but I'm not
EBWOP: more stuff aaaaah
Steampunk's reactions don't give me town or scum vibes and I dislike your continuous push on the slot.-
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faüstiv Goon
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faüstiv Goon
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faüstiv Goon
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I've explained numerous times but you just choose to ignore it for whatever reason. You ask me to provide reasoning on my points, I do, then you claim I'm tunnelling you.In post 269, catboi wrote:Nah what I think happened is when I called out the shoddiness of your argument you realized you couldn't back it up-
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faüstiv Goon
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I have explained it and my point is that I've seen scum put that line in there to give themselves an out and I've caught scum many a time because I've seen them do similar. In isolation, it's not scummy. It deserves to be prodded but it's not something I'm going to keep my vote on for. I kept my vote on you because you dealt with my pressure awfully.-
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faüstiv Goon
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OK.In post 273, catboi wrote:There's someone here dealing with pressure awfully and it's not me
If I'm scum, who is my partner?-
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faüstiv Goon
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vote ceejay with me thenIn post 276, catboi wrote:
probably not sterling because it feels more like you're defending someone you know is town with your defense of himIn post 275, faüstiv wrote:
OK.In post 273, catboi wrote:There's someone here dealing with pressure awfully and it's not me
If I'm scum, who is my partner?
fennec or ceejay would be my guess off the top of my head-
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faüstiv Goon
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reading kkigri's ISO, i'm less sure on him being town btwIn post 266, faüstiv wrote:fairly sure kkrigi is town based on his thought process and I can understand where he's coming from. Plus I think I can read kk farily well and I'm fairly sure he's not scum this game.
The 2 scum are in thryinth/maestro/catboi/ceejay IMHO-
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faüstiv Goon
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Steampunk is town by virtue of him having no partner from what I can see and his general behaviour.Maybeat a push ceejay is the partner due to his disengagement in the game, but I'm still confident that he would have said something to Steampunk at least in the mafia chat to stop him charging around the daystate like a brazen bull, so I'm willing to conclude that Steampunk has no scum partner based on my logic and also probability. I did say he could be partners with Fennec, but then his vote on him to put him on E-2 makes 0 sense if they're the team.
Scum!Fennec townreads Sterling relatively early when he's an easy mislynch for mafia and they're unlikely to be partners based on what I said above. Whilst it's not a readlist which goes into great detail, I don't think scum!Fennec makes post 130 as scum, because it's hard for him to justify doing a 180 based on how he quickly affirmed he was 'dumbass town' (remember what I said about scum putting something in there to give themselves an 'out?' Well Fennec didn't do that). Sure, as catboi said, his use of expletives can be seen as a scumtell as it could be seen as him overcompensating to look town, but it could also be his posting style. Fennec's currently in another game which I can't really comment on any more than check his posts out in that game and come to your own conclusions. Progression on catboi vote makes sense given his posts and seems like a natural thought process going into voting him.
Thewingfan is town. I'm not explaining why just yet, but he is town.
catboi - you are right in what you said in #271. When I said I had two townreads and one scumread, I was being truthful with my two townreads. However, when I said catboi was scum, I lied. I wanted to push you to see both how you would react and how others would react. I had you down as null, maybe town based on gut, but your posts were wordy but lacking substance and I wasn't sure if the scumhunting was genuine. I felt poking you was the best move to get something out of you because if you are town then I can easily see you getting booted off later off in the game. Anyway, I maintain what I said in our little squabble: your defense was terrible, you reacted poorly under pressure, you misrepped my argument, but when you voted me I realised that you were town.
That leaves kk/maestro/thry/ceejay in my scumpool and I townread the former more than I do the latter, so at this point, based on PoE, I think the scumteam is ceejay/thry.-
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faüstiv Goon
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You do raise a fair point re. a partner trying to coach him and him refusing to listen, but my townread on him isn't solely based on this theory. As you have stated, Steampunk isn't new to the concept of mafia, so he will know that the purpose of being mafia is to blend in and not act suspicious. His voting pattern is not scum-motivated. As scum, I believe he would be more cautious with where he throws his votes and the speed/style in which he throws his votes about. He's drawing attention to himself based on his style of play and I just believe that scum!Steampunk plays a more cautious game as mafia.In post 289, kkirigiri wrote:
I hadn't yet got concrete feeling of where you were at, but that sounds eerily like a feeling I've been having but not sure how I'd articulate that I feel like it must come from a town perspective.In post 288, faüstiv wrote: Thewingfan is town. I'm not explaining why just yet, but he is town.
Your spat with catboi had been concerning me though, I was beginning wonder why you seemed intent at undermining my reads and wondered if it were deliberate, I was going to ask you how you thought catboishouldhave reacted to your pushing, since I thought it was true that your reasoning relating to his first vote was pretty thin. He could quite legitimately resist your FOS I think as either alignment - maybe the breadth and timing of his posts leans townish, but either way, nothing as concrete as my initial townread on him which I've kept throughout.
...
Still don't think your reasoning re: Sterling is good enough. Again, even if his partner might have wanted to coach him, it's no guarantee that he'd had have heeded their advice, for what could be any number of reasons. From your perspective, if you think that him being new to forum mafia is important, then by your logic, this perhaps makes him more likely to misinterpret or disregard what his partner would have to say. You're expecting him to act rationally in one aspect of the game whilst giving him the benefit of the doubt for irrational behaviour that you're seeing in the thread.
My theory has been and remains:
-> Maestro accuses Sterling of scumslipping.
-> Sterling accidentally mentions having a private thread in his response.
-> Sterling then realises that Maestro didn't mention such a thing in his accusation, realises he doesn't have a decent explanation for doing so, tries to change the subject.
-> Fennec switches into the game in a pretty poor situation [if we assume he is mafia with Sterling], makes a couple of heated posts to try to take attention away from Sterling and on to players who had been lurking.
-> Sterling tries a few tactics to try to distance himself from Fennec, ending in him voting Fennec not long after I'd posited a possible scumteam between the two, and faust had declared that Fennec would be Sterling's only possible partner in his defence of Sterling.
Another damning thing here is that earlier (#114), he'd questioned me voting Fennec, and his reason for switching his vote hinged upon him learning about my past experience in the game, and Thyn's prior vote (whose alignment he had not commented on). As has been pointed out, this is just not something a town player should do; even a confused town player would be more cautious with their vote here.
Whether or not you consider his vote on Fennec to be a trap to get us to think they're not a team (I'm still leaning that it could be), Sterling doesn't come out looking good at all.
As such:
VOTE: Sterling the steampunk
In terms of your theory, I think Maestro made a valid point re. a scumslip, but I was satisfied with Steampunk's response. I also think (and I don't want to sound rude here, it's just something I've picked up) English isn't Steampunk's first language and I think his retorts are being deliberately misrepresented in a way to make a valid case on him to get him voted out. Steampunk is an easy mislynch for mafia. You questioned Maestro's theory in post 47 but now you maintain you believe he scumslipped all along. If that's the case, then why have you only just placed a vote on him?
I also believe that Steampunk/Fennec don't co-ordinate that vote to put Fennec on E-2 given there's 1. heat on the slot 2. Fennec being inactive at that point in time. I don't think either party could solo this game and if there's an investigative role in the game, then they're likely to check one of the two tonight anyway. Your theory doesn't make sense and it's actually pinged me a little as it looks like you're setting up for a Fennec mislynch tomorrow once Steampunk flips town.
Consider my eyebrow fullyraised.-
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faüstiv Goon
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YO.In post 295, Thynhith wrote:In post 280, Thynhith wrote:
Stop evading this. What do you think of Sterling's vote?In post 224, Thynhith wrote:
lmfaoIn post 220, Sterling the steampunk wrote:seeing how kkirgiri who played mafia on other sites before, and judging how she was able to get a read very early, I guess she's more used to playing by reads rather than power roles, I'm inclined to believe her feels. as well as Cat having suspicions and groups being able to make better guesses than individuals VOTE: Fennec
I still personally have stronger suspicions on maestro but the group is stronger than the induvial
Faust, ya still think Sterling town? Swooping onto the waggon mere hours after I get it going? Too timid to be the second, so he saw my vote and took the chance?@FaustOi, respond to this. Does his vote make no impression on your read of him?
I will, just not yet. I'm meant to be working.-
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faüstiv Goon
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faüstiv Goon
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You will have to quote Sterling's posts and explain in further detail because as it stands, I'm reconsidering my townread on you. I don't see any evidence where Sterling's guilty conscience is shining through and this feels a bit reachy to me.What I say in #47 relates to his opening post being more likely a townslip than a scumslip. It is still possible that he hasn't looked at his private thread or seen his name there, my point kind of assumed that he did though if he were scum, and at that point that seemed the more natural chain of events to me.
What might be considered a 'slip' from him is a separate point entirely, that he claims that Maestro accused him of having a private thread and therefore being mafia, when that was nothing to do with what he said. It is true that I had brought up private threads as a topic, but that was in the context of me trying to defend him - which is again different to what I am pushing him for, if you read what I'm saying carefully.
To me this seemed like it could be guilty conscience coming through by responding to an accusation that hadn't been made of him.
This is incorrect as I voted Steampunk after Maestro's post and pressured the slot. I was satisified with his response and so removed my vote off of him. I think Steampunk is votebait and I'm not liking the bandwagon on him at all.What I feel like you're doing is that you decided he was town very early on, and are now trying to fit all later events into that framework no matter what, even if it's not the most natural explanation for them. Yeah, I know that feeling of it being 'too obvious', but this isn't a hand-written scenario. I think the obvious answer here is the right one.
I still don't see how you think Fennec and Steampunk are both scum. Nothing in their playstyle and interactions indicate to me that they are a team.As to why I'm only just voting him, I think you can gather why in my #289. I'm still suspicious of Fennec, but I think he's a better vote than him at the moment.
I disagree. You're townread by most of the players and both Fennec and Steampunk are hot choices for a mislynch.I mean Sterling's flipping maf here, but even if he didn't, then wouldn't suspicion immediately be cast on me and Maestro at the start of Day 2? Myself especially since it'd be my own vote on Sterling that would look particularly opportunistic. I'd be in no position to get Fennec voted out.
What's your thoughts on Thryhith and ceejay? Would you be willing to join me and vote one of them?-
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faüstiv Goon
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faüstiv Goon
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Ok, so when I said I had two townreads and one scumread, the scumread I had at that point was was actually on ceejay. I didn't want to vote/suspect him directly because I wanted to see how he'd react to certain bandwagons etc. as I believe that votes are a better tool for determining mafia than posts are.
Post #85:
Outs a lazy readlist, claims he doesn't know how to sort me but makes no effort to try and sort me. I was a scumread player at that point in the game. Why would town!ceejay not try and sort me here? Says he'd rather push on Thyn but doesn't explain why.It's weird but I'm not really seeing anything yet that catches my attention, except for faustiv who I have no idea how to sort.
catboi feels like town.
maestro feels like town but I wouldn't mind seeing more.
Kyouko hasn't really done anything yet except sit on her early read. Might check again later.
Sterling? idk could be town.
Rose and Thynhith disappeared.
Rockhopper didn't show.
I'd rather push Thynhith for now.
VOTE: Thynhith what do you think of the game so far?
#87:
Again references me, again makes 0 attempt to sort me. Doesn't pursue his vote on Thry past this point.I think that's a loose way to describe it? I just want more from you to help figure you out.
Gut feeling is I should probably look into faustiv more but I don't really feel like doing that yet.
Another gut feeling is that your entrance felt rather awkward but looking back on it I think this is just how you post.Ceejay, I'd like to know why?
#165:
Doesn't explain why. Convenient that me and kkirigiri were townread by most of the players at that point.Catching up and for some reason I'm liking kkirigiri and faustiv more for town.
I'm not sure what to do with Maestro. I'm getting town vibes but I'm not confident about it for some reason. Maybe because early on he's involved more with nudging along the newbies rather than actively sorting, if that makes sense.
#167:
This coming after posting a lazy readlist before. His read on Maestro as per his readlist was "maestro feels like town but I wouldn't mind seeing more."I also don't think it's a good idea to base townreads off genuine/casual tones. I'm not saying your Maestro townread is wrong but I don't like the reason for that townread. If you told me he helped advance the game or has been helpful to town in some way or something that could be better.
#169 he criticizes Fennec's readlist. I suppose this is in line with the criticism he had on Thry's readlist, but his tone in response to this readlist reads more provocative and interrogative:
Also feels like a weird reason for a townlean
He was not this aggressive when criticising Thry's readlist when he was townreading people based on tone like Fennec's readlist was. Fennec was scumread at that point in the game.To you, this feels like either TvT or TvS. That's pretty useless. Every interaction in this game involving two people could easily feel like that. What makes this one stand out?
#285 reads like someone trying to justify a reason to vote me.
Again, the tone is different to when he was 'interrogating' Thry.And what the heck is this?
I was going to go back to the other pages to see what I've missed but these caught my eye.
This I believe is ceejay giving himself an out to jump off my wagon and jump on Steampunk's.Also want to vote steampunk too. His iso feels worse than I remember it being.
#287:
Notice how the two players with the most heat on them are in ceejay's votepool? and Fennec's name is ended with a ?Probably town. idk I'm not good at mafia: kkirigiri, catboi
in that weird state between "probably town" and "I don't want to elim these today": maestro
I don't want to elim these today: wingfan, Thynhith, fennec?
Everybody else: faustiv, sterlingsteampunk
If I was to go completely tinfoil hat, I would argue that ceejay's #85 and subsequent interaction with Thry is two partners distancing, but I don't feel like going down that particular avenue just yet.-
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in short, ceejay reads like someone who is doing the bare minimum to scumhunt, is jumping on wagons which aren't controversial and townreading players who are townread by consensus. It could be read as disengagement, but there's too much there for me to completely dismiss it, and other players are townier than him which makes him scum via POE imo.-
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faüstiv Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 805
- Joined: September 7, 2019
Thry isn't someone who actually pinged me as scum until I read his ISO. I feel like Thry is making posts which make him 'appear' to be actively scumhunting, but he's not really scumhunting. They're safe, 'radio-friendly' posts which sound pleasant, but aren't thought-provoking or provide anything interesting.
#89:
Like this post for example. It's not very controversial. Tonally it reads town, but what is Thry actually saying here? "Just want to note that I don't find this entirely satisfying". Does nothing to pressure the slot.It's been a fascinating reread. Just want to note that I don't find this entirely satisfying, and Maestro has a valid concern.
1) It's plausible you weren't expecting me pick up on the change to your meta
2) Also plausible you made up an explanation after I pointed it out
Chuck me a link to your prior game and I promise I'll stop harping on
Other people picked up on this.It's plausible you weren't expecting me pick up on the change to your meta
Possibly, but this does nothing from a scumhunter's perspective. It's just stating the obvious.Also plausible you made up an explanation after I pointed it out
Maybe a stretch but he could have been saying this to look reasonable and look like he is genuinely trying to sort cat? But then again, why not just look at catboi's game history, which can be found in his profile? Why does he feel the need to ask him directly? 87 is a post which reads tonally town and reasonable, but doesn't actually say anything, and there are a few of Thry's posts which are in a similar vein to this.Chuck me a link to your prior game and I promise I'll stop harping on
Like what does this mean?Finished catching up now. First impression is that there are few telling reads either way. But some interesting interactions.
@Sterling, I think most people want to get a better read on you, but you don't have much content. What are your reads right now? Even better, do you think anyone voting for you is scum?
#126:
Actually reading this, is this a scumslip? "pushing newbies who have slipped up". I quoted it because he's criticizing catboi for pushing on Sterling which he as also doing, but he's worded it in such a way that heMy forepromised reads list
Townlean
Maestro - feels pretty genuine/casual, hard to fake for scum.
Kirigiri - her declaration at the start feels too random for scum. But, Kiri, I would like to see you elucidate what part of Rose's first post made you scumread him.
???
Sterling - gut says he is newtownie, need to see more to be sure
Rock and Rose - not enough content
Catboi -I would like to town read you, but I'm getting too much of a defensive tone. Im sure it will become more clear though. And your latest vote on Sterling - surely as SE you should know better than pushing newbies who have slipped up?
Faust - has quietly gone under the radar? Soft pushing sterling? Not happy with him unwilling to commit himself, very much an evasive attitude, so [VOTE: Faust]
I would like him to explain his own unvote.
Pedit: by that logic perhaps I should be scumreading youknowsSteampunk slipped up?
Policy vote isn't pro-town. Why is Thry advocating for this?I can think of some uses for elimming him. We get to clear the air, so to speak. So long as we have him in D2 he will continue to be the center of discussion, and later scum will use him as a convenient lynchee. Besides, I still feel somewhat uneasy about his towniness. After getting everyone stirred up with his "scumslip", wouldn't a newtownie be working to regain trust and contribute discussion? Any townie, in fact. It's suspect that he laid low after those first few days, only emerging to post insubstantial comments.
#215 he votes Fennec when he's a hot wagon. Interrogating me, his tone completely changes now that I've voted him. Unhappy that I townread three players, two of which, are voteable.
It did make me townread him, but now I'm wondering if he's your partner based on #126@Faust Oi, respond to this. Does his vote make no impression on your read of him?
I am happy to reconsider my Steampunk read D2 if Thry flips scum, but PLEASE can we vote this today?
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