Newbie 2119: Pictures of People Wearing Cool Hats | GAME OVER

[AurorusVox]

VOTE: dragoneater

This is the correct vote

[AurorusVox]

I’m visiting family this Easter weekend. Hopefully I will be able to find excuses to leave and get online but just in case I’m declaring

vla til Monday

[AurorusVox]

Patch <3

[AurorusVox]

It upsets me how many people want to play scum lol

Give me town every day of the

game

week

[AurorusVox]

Blacks entrance > Dragons entrance

[AurorusVox]

Patch I think you should vote dragon with me as an Easter gift

[AurorusVox]

Hi guys thank you for giving me this much to catch up on lol I am still at my dads so haven’t read any of this yet but I’ll make a start on catching up once I’m home over the next few days

If anyone has any pointers of key moments please help a brotha out with some links, otherwise I’ll probably have to start with recent stuff and work my way back where I get the chance. Managing expectations here I won’t necessarily be able to get caught up on the *whole thread* super quickly!

PS I’ve had the worst weekend of my adult life - family, eh!

[AurorusVox]

So I’m sat in a towel drying off after a shower and have read this page and this page only.

Purely based on that I like Patch, for their reaction to dragons TR
This means I vibe with Bella

I’ve seen venmars quoted post in the dragon quote nest and I’m onside with dragons post dinging at the point venmar took issue with it so I like venmar too

Now to the dragon post in question, I’m gonna need it explaining to me as maybe I’m missing context here but

@dragon how is delta asking if you scumread them for disagreeing with you too scummy to be scum?

Like, have you made it super clear why you scumread them earlier on? Is delta misrepping you or do you just purely think the question itself is “nonsensical”?

I’ll read further back later as I’m dry now lol

[AurorusVox]

PS I also saw venmar say they tr dragon before this so maybe it’ll all become clear when I read pages 16 and below and I’ll look really silly. Just thought I’d get something out while I had the chance!

Adios~

[AurorusVox]

I’ve read the rest of p17 now guys

Hopefully a lot of the context will fall into place when I read the rest of the game post-VLA but from comets posting it seems delta is scumreading people for doing something he was doing? I also saw mention of a slip, could someone link the post I need to look at and I’ll prioritise that - I think from context it looks like something between delta and Bella? And comet and venmar have been dragged into it (by delta??) I mean I can always come across it naturally during the catch up but if it’s a big deal that I need to know about asap then point me in the right direction and I’ll look at it when I get back.

———

Yeah so maybe because comet has posted so much on this page but I’m definitely getting good feels for comet, feels like they’re being open and clear about their reads and doubts.

@dragon okay so is the issue that delta is basically completely openly misrepping you and you think the only logical explanation is that he’s town who is tunnelling (because what he’s saying is so obviously untrue that scum would be reckless to pursue it)? I apologise I haven’t gone back to read prior pages yet but I’ll keep that in mind when going backwards

UNVOTE: for now

———

Bella posts this page have been like I want to townread them because they sound genuine but there’s also a bit of umm…inconsistency there?

Like she says she sounds like she’s pocketing comet while having a kinda scumread on them, but also doesn’t want comet in her lim pool for today. The strength of the patch townread also doesn’t really jive with the explanation she gave of it?

Bella I know you prefer people to ask you questions than speak about you so: is “not done anything scummy = patch town” stronger than “done something scummy = black/venmar scum” (the two people left in your limpool)?

I’m also intrigued by the final post on this page; venmar thinks you and delta are scum and you said that he’s asking for a vote between people who sr reach other (you and delta) but you also don’t have delta in your limpool…why is delta not in your pool if you sr them (especially to the point that it should be of note to venmar)?

[AurorusVox]

I should be clear that when I say “this page” above I mean page 17, I’ve not read p18/18 yet (sorry still limited time here!)

And thanks comet and Bella, things got a bit better after a big row in the morning ha :’)

[AurorusVox]

P18/P19 I mean damn

[AurorusVox]

Read page 18 now and using some quotes to help me this time

It's kind of the problem with your explanation as well: defendant, etc - it doesn't feel genuine. It also just doesn't follow for me: why would you care what Bella!scum thougjt of your post? Why wouldn't you interogate why I was supporting you in that moment, rather than using it as a 'gotcha' to the person you were arguing with?

Bella I’m finding some of the arguments between you and venmar here hard to follow and I see later on p18 that dragon is the same so I don’t think it’s anything to do with my vla.

How certain do you think venmar needs to be to

not

care what you make of his posts? Like unless he knows you’re 100% scum (impossible at this point) then there’s always the possibility you’re town, right? It kinda pings me that you’re arguing this from a confScum!bella point of view which only really works if you’re scum (and know you are).

I’m also confused because you ask why he cares what you think but also say he should interrogate it (like, doesn’t this suggest he doesn’t care?)

———

PS I also saw venmar say they tr dragon before this so maybe it’ll all become clear when I read pages 16 and below and I’ll look really silly. Just thought I’d get something out while I had the chance!

Adios~

I'd say I still TR dragon but yeah that one post gave me reason to pay more attention. Definitely still lean town since my strongest SReads remain Bella and Delta

Noted, dragon has seemed okay in their reply to my post (hence my unvote) but based on posts further down it looks like dragon has used other people (namely you) to move them (back) onto voting delta. It feels a little manufactured. I go into more detail on this under the post itself.

———

Do you want to direct some questions my way? You've talked a lot more about me than to me, which is always a red flag.

Hasn’t venmar been engaging with you on this page?

———

Look I don't know. The only time I based a read on "too scummy to be scum" it turned out to be scum anyway. BUT like are you expecting me to believe that scum!Delta posted that shit with a straight face? Like maybe they did. Maybe their tactic is to just make a ridiculous accusation after ridiculous accusation in hope someone will buy it.
But I am having a hard time believing it.
Though I'm also having a hard time believing town doing it so honestly IDK.
Do you think I should just ignore this and revote Delta?

I just generally get weary when someone uses the "too scummy to be scum" line, it just reads to me as scum trying to find a reason to hop off a wagon even though I can see !town sometimes do it when I they became unsure, I just associate it with scum more than town personally. I just tend to subscribe to the "hold the persons toes to the fire until there is a reason not to" philosophy a lot of the time.

----

For now I'd commit to these reads;

lean scum; Bella, Delta
null but somewhat lean scum; Comet (if i had to make a lean but this isn't a confident read)
Neutral; Aurorus (not enough content yet), Kawaii (lurker)
null but somewhat lean town; patchwork, black
Lean town; Dragon

Off to work now...

You are right, I honestly have as much hard time believing town!Delta saying that shit as I have difficulty believing scum!Delta saying it, which is why I am currently sticking with a Delta vote.
BTW, why do you lean scum on Comet? Like is there any particular thing she said or did that you find scummy?

@dragon based on my understanding I posted from p17 it looked like you were reading delta as town for these things but here it seems like you’ve gone back to voting him, it seems a bit flip floppy, are you committing to that vote for your own reasons or are you “being guided” as it were by venmars sr? The latter is a concern for me because it lets you off the hook more if delta is limmed and flips green.

BTW, why do you lean scum on Comet? Like is there any particular thing she said or did that you find scummy?

I just remember that prior to the whole Bella PT thing, I was flip flopping in my mind as to whether I was vibing town or scum with Comet's posts, but I remember the odd post they made has pinged me and I think some of the recent posts have felt like comet pocketing me like #412 and #416, but it's not conclusive enough for me to feel confident in the read. Realistically Delta and Bella are my only concrete scum lean reads for now.

I am noting to look at these linked posts because comet seemed to vibe townie to me.

———

I don’t want to vote until I’m fully caught up but atm I’m most suspicious of Bella and is where my vote would go~

Will get onto p19 (and now p20) later then start working through old pages after.

[AurorusVox]

Quickly checked those two linked posts and first one I don’t think is pockety at all, second one maaaaybe as it’s like saying how much they like your posts, but maybe comet just genuinely likes your posts lol

[AurorusVox]

Also @dragon I’ve just gone back to p17 and I’m like so confused about your position on delta you unvoted and voted and asked others if you should revote…

I think the easier thing to do is for me to just ask you to tell me where you’re at in the simplest terms possible

[AurorusVox]

I have been ninjad a few times but ignoring all new posts until I’m on that page sorry! Apologies if this stuff has been answered~

Hi guys thank you for giving me this much to catch up on lol I am still at my dads so haven’t read any of this yet but I’ll make a start on catching up once I’m home over the next few days

If anyone has any pointers of key moments please help a brotha out with some links, otherwise I’ll probably have to start with recent stuff and work my way back where I get the chance. Managing expectations here I won’t necessarily be able to get caught up on the *whole thread* super quickly!

PS I’ve had the worst weekend of my adult life - family, eh!

WELCOME BACK VOX!! hope you had a good easter

<3 my G

It was shite but thanks for asking ha

Maybe my Patch town lean was premature. Hmm?

i'm just stuck in a really bad depressive mood swing and i really don't have the energy for much, but i'll try to get to it sometime soon.

Hoping the best for you though, feel better <3

Can you explain this? Looks like you’re suggesting scumvibes from patch’s posts but not pointing to anything specific?

———

Dragon's 344 gives me vibe that he's trying to get Delta to look into people besides himself. Suggesting Delta vote AV (on vacation) or me (gone for the weekend) feels really weird. This kinda goes in with what I was saying a bit ago about Dragon. He's so concerned with people pushing him/SRing him

[…]

I just wanted to catch up... I didn't mean for these to be walls...

Looool did dragon suggest voting me/black while we were on vla?? That is super shady man. Let me get onto the linked post and see the context around this suggestion because like I don’t rate that move at all.

Beyond that I’ve found blacks catch-up posts quite helpful as a summary of what’s been going on - but also it’s not just iioa it’s giving reads whilst summarising. As a result I’m leaning town on black from the catch-ups.

———

The 'slip' was me: I read way more into a post from dragon than was there and then worded it so badly that like.... five? People decided it was from the scum pt. I think most people now don't think that/venmar (and black?) Still sr me separately

Re: inconsistencies around reads, I think I answered this but I think a big part of it is I'm worried I'm reading people for the wrong reasons, specifically with venmar and comet (I find venmars posting independently scumny of their tone, but I am worried I'm sr-ing comet's being affable as a scum agenda to 'blend in'). Comet, venmar and black wre all in the slip group too - I'm 99% certain one scum is here.

With patch, apart from you and kawia I can point to posts from everyone that seem really scumny: I'd struggle to do that with patch? Either way, I think patch and comet become more readable over time - I remember in mine and comets first game I think I sr them early Ans then by day two was like 'im never voting this'

Did people actually think Bella had posted in this thread instead of a scum pt???

This stinks so much of the omi pr hunting push from our last game together, that was a push I stoked as scum because there were so many townies on board with what was objectively a terrible thing (but realistically so unlikely).

Actually enough to make me reconsider my suspicions of Bella, what page did this start on? I want to see how people responded to it once I’ve caught up these latest pages.

Oh, the vote thing: I'm not even sure now what I meant, it's possible I read the names wrong and thought he was telling delta to vote between me and black, who sr each other? Apparently comprehension is not my strong point this game.

Yeah on p18 or whatever I just read you said you thought it was about you and black.

———

Venmar; Comet

Delta

AV; Kawaii

Bella

Dragon; patch

After catching up this is where I stand. I think Dragon is overly concerned with people SRing him and I think that is more likely to come from a wolf. Patch is riding the fence on a lot of positions and also not really coming up with many original takes of their own. I did this unknowingly in my first scum game on the site and I'm seeing shades of that here

VOTE: patch

The dragon sr concern, I think you’re right to say it’s more likely to be scum motivated. What’s your take on the way dragon has behaved around delta?

Based on this page I’m now probably more suspect of dragon than Bella fml

[AurorusVox]

241 - calls bella scum over the slip

confused about how this is "sheepy" lol, it definitely looked like a slip
what am i supposed to say, "bella is town for making a post that looks like a scumslip" ?

Patch did you genuinely think Bella mistook this thread for the scum pt?

fence riding on Dragon saying he "radiates townie" but he's sketchy?

also curious about how this is fence-riding

Saying his vibes are super town but his behavior is sketchy gives you the opportunity to fall either way here depending how the game goes

Agree with this, how can they be both super town and sketchy? Patch, doesn’t this qualify as a perfect example of fence sitting?

I have a blind spot I think for players who agree with me and TR me, maybe that's why I am receptive to putting Dragon in my town pile and why I'm over critical of Comet agreeing with me.

I do think that Dragon overall has felt townie to me with a few exceptions; Aurorus brings up a good point that Dragon's behaviour could be him trying to sheep or hide behind me, Dragon's flip flip off of Delta for "too scummy" and then hop back after a slight pushback from me could definitely read as scum letting themselves be guided by a townie. But at the same time I'm also not in agreement with others like Black that Dragon is scummy for stuff like being overly defensive and inquisitive over how others read him; I would find this behaviour more concerning coming from a more experienced player but tbh I don't think this is particularly alarming in and of itself coming from a newbie, I was definitely a bit like this when I was a newer player and even then I think being self-centered is a NAI trait for many players.

Last part - interesting take. I don’t remember dragon being hyper focused on others reads last time i played with him. I also don’t think it’s generally NAI either - anecdotally I care more about being read as town when I’m scum lol whereas as town I’m more interested in what other people think of my scumreads I think?

So I’m sat in a towel drying off after a shower and have read this page and this page only.

Purely based on that I like Patch, for their reaction to dragons TR

This means I vibe with Bella

I’ve seen venmars quoted post in the dragon quote nest and I’m onside with dragons post dinging at the point venmar took issue with it so I like venmar too

Now to the dragon post in question, I’m gonna need it explaining to me as maybe I’m missing context here but

@dragon how is delta asking if you scumread them for disagreeing with you too scummy to be scum?

Like, have you made it super clear why you scumread them earlier on? Is delta misrepping you or do you just purely think the question itself is “nonsensical”?

I’ll read further back later as I’m dry now lol

Bella posts this page have been like I want to townread them because they sound genuine

but there’s also a bit of umm…inconsistency there?

Like she says she sounds like she’s pocketing comet while having a kinda scumread on them, but also doesn’t want comet in her lim pool for today. The strength of the patch townread also doesn’t really jive with the explanation she gave of it?

Bella I know you prefer people to ask you questions than speak about you so: is “not done anything scummy = patch town” stronger than “done something scummy = black/venmar scum” (the two people left in your limpool)?

I’m also intrigued by the final post on this page; venmar thinks you and delta are scum and you said that he’s asking for a vote between people who sr reach other (you and delta) but you also don’t have delta in your limpool…why is delta not in your pool if you sr them (especially to the point that it should be of note to venmar)?

I don’t want to vote until I’m fully caught up but atm

I’m most suspicious of Bella and is where my vote would go

~

I just don't see the progression from vibing with Bella, to wanting to TR her posts but noticing a couple inconsistencies that are making it hard for you to do so, to then saying she's the most sus to you and you will probably vote there

This is especially weird to me considering it seems like you SR Dragon for more solid stuff than just minor inconsistencies? Didn't you accuse him of manufacturing their position back to Delta here:

Noted, dragon has seemed okay in their reply to my post (hence my unvote) but based on posts further down it looks like dragon has used other people (namely you) to move them (back) onto voting delta. It feels a little manufactured. I go into more detail on this under the post itself.

AV do you SR Dragon or am I misunderstanding you here?

Yeah so I had like a scumlean on dragon based on the too scummy to be scum which was answered satisfactorily, but later stuff hadn’t felt right (the stuff I mentioned from p18). However Bella was giving off inconsistencies (please note these came after p17 where I initially liked bella), the whole venmar thing moved me to having a stronger scumread on her (she seemed to be arguing from a scum!bella world) and this was stronger than my read on dragon hence what I said about voting her.

However a pile on over a scumPT slip makes me think Bella is probably town who was being pushed by scum (hence why that’s my first thing to look at after I’ve caught up on recent pages)

[AurorusVox]

Did people actually think Bella had posted in this thread instead of a scum pt

???

This stinks so much of the omi pr hunting push from our last game together, that was a push I stoked as scum because there were so many townies on board with what was objectively a terrible thing (but realistically so unlikely).

Actually enough to make me reconsider my suspicions of Bella, what page did this start on? I want to see how people responded to it once I’ve caught up these latest pages.

This doesn't feel like a natural progression. Re: the blue... uhh, how did you miss that when you were catching up? Are you really implying you missed over all the bella slip stuff? It seems like you are conveniently noticing this or remembering it to flop on Bella

Based on this page I’m now probably more suspect of dragon than Bella fml

Huh. Really convenient timing here after my 495 and 499

Yeah like

Let me be clear

I’ve only read page 17+ so not seen anything about the slip, I asked if someone can link me or tell me what page to start on so I can look into it more but like.

And convenient timing or not, I’ve been reading and posting a page at a time. My post that you call convenient was based on page 19. Your 495/499 were on p20 so /shrug

[AurorusVox]

It might not be the best way to catch up but I’m on limited time so I started with p17 and read and posted about that

Then I got a chance to look at p18 and read and responded to that

Did the same with p19, then p20, and now I’m caught up p17-21.

I’ve not read anything before that yet. That’s why I’ve asked for someone to point me to the slip page.

I’ll get onto the first 16 pages when I’m properly back from vla

[AurorusVox]

@venmar As for why I have already drawn conclusions…like I’ve never seen anything posted in thread that was meant for a pt?? They’re literally different colours.

So gut response is I’d be amazed if there wasn’t scum involvement in pushing that narrative. It reminds me of how I pushed omi for “pr hunting” in my last newbie game which is what I’ve likened it to in my post. This would put Bella as the townie in the analogy.

If Bella has been scummy around the slip (as per venmars posts on p21) then that’s something else I’ll need to look into when reading those pages. It’s not impossible for scum to be caught by mistake lol.

And okay so the main dragon reasons are:
- using Venmar to justify voting delta
- being hyper focused on others reads of him
- suggesting voting people who aren’t even here

Please bear in mind I’m trying to get myself immersed in the game using just the last 4ish pages so I maybe don’t have the backing or understanding you might expect from someone who’s been actively involved from the start. I don’t replace into games because I don’t have the time for big catch-ups. I’ve managed a bit of time today which is why you’ve had these last few pages addressed.

Sure this could all change when I fully catch up. Maybe I should have just shut up until then lol.

[AurorusVox]

No I get it venmar, in retrospect when I’m not rushing to get posts out, the slip thing probably should be null and not factor into swaying my Bella read. I also think I’m like partly hanging over from the omi pr hunting push last game, which made me think Bella must be town in this scenario, but until I’ve read it properly I can’t really make that call.

And as for reacting before reading it, I do want to go back to look at it but no one has told me where it is yet lol so I was needing to save it for when I can get to reading all the pages 1-16. But I guess i didn’t want to just ignore it until then.

[AurorusVox]

Eh, I don't think scum sees something a bit weak, tells you it's weak Ans votes anyway? I can see that post from town! Bella fairly easily

Okay I searched the word slip and read around the post in question.

Like.

How is this a possible pt slip? Is it not just Bella saying whatever she noticed is something she would do as town? (Negates dragons accusation)

It doesn’t make sense to be explaining bellas venmar vote (black’s accusation) because she didn’t say it was weak when voting it? And also why would she then go on to post the explanation in the pt AFTER posting the vote if she’s checking it with her partner?

As for comet and coaching, again it only works going forward if someone is ABOUT to post a weak vote, it can’t apply retroactively because if they’ve already voted weakly, then why make the post in the scum pt at all? I’ll pay attention to this on a proper re-read to see if anyone was positioning for a weak vote to justify this suspicion but I still really don’t buy that someone would mistake the game thread for a pt and the whole push seems really iffy to me.

Buuuuuuut as venmar said the very existence of the “slip” either way is null. It doesn’t make Bella town except insofar as the question of if there are *two* scum pushing in bad faith.

So are there 2 scum in [dragon/venmar/black]?

I have trs for two of them based on 17+ vs the scumread I initially had for Bella so on balance probably not. I don’t think the slip incident is enough to shake those reads after all. (When I made that point Bella had said five people went after her for it but as far as I see it’s only those three?)

What I found interesting was delta criticised venmar for posting 3x since the slip and kinda swerving it in all but one post, but delta himself never commented on the slip.

I’d say my lim pool today is currently [bella, dragon, delta]

But that’s based on reading page 6, and page 17 onwards. I’ll vote when I’ve read the rest.

[AurorusVox]

Also sorry I probably should have just done that when i hit the first mention of a slip

[AurorusVox]

So are there 2 scum in [dragon/venmar/black]?

I have trs for two of them based on 17+ vs the scumread I initially had for Bella

so on balance probably not. I don’t think the slip incident is enough to shake those reads after all.

(When I made that point Bella had said five people went after her for it but as far as I see it’s only those three?)

It’s literally in the next sentences after the one you quoted…

[AurorusVox]

Like…
Are you reading what I’m writing or just looking for reasons to scumread me?

[AurorusVox]

I get that. It’s been a bit all over the place. I should have just read the pages and posted at once; and/or gone back to the slip before making a call on it. That’s my bad and I’ll own that - I don’t replace into games and clearly it’s a good thing cos my manner of catching up has been less than optimal.

But in summary:

I thought you were townie initially (first half of p17)
I then thought you seemed suspect in the interaction with venmar
That was then sidetracked when you told me 5 people had pushed you for a pt slip which I just found so dodgy that imo it had to be a scum push
Then I went and read the slip and it turns out 3 people pushed you - I don’t agree with their reasons, but it isn’t enough to override the scummy behaviour I saw p17 (second half) and beyond

[AurorusVox]

That’s also explained in the same part

Like after looking at it, the slip incident was not enough to shake the trs I had on you and venmar or the sr I had initially formed on Bella

[AurorusVox]

Like after looking at it, the slip incident was not enough to shake the trs I had on you and venmar or the sr I had initially formed on Bella

Ok, so just to make sure, you don't think Bella is probably town getting pushed by scum over the slip?

Simple answer: Not after reading it, no. The whole slip thing is null in terms of bellas alignment because I don’t think it was a pt slip and I don’t think she was pushed as much as she said when I asked.

Sorry, I know that’s going to look super flip floppy again. That’s my bad for the way I read the game during catch up.

Longer explanation with more thought around how the push developed on p6: If five people had actually pushed her due to the slip (which is what she said had happened originally), then I might have felt different about it. But from what I could tell only 3 people pushed it, with two of those people as townreads of mine from later in the game. I don’t currently see a world where {black / comet / dragon} contain 2 scum.

It’s interesting to me. IF there’s scum bussing in this scenario it would be dragon based on dragon being another scumread of mine. Dragon is the first one to mention pt slip.

(a) would dragon make this first move as scum on scum?
(b) would dragon make this accusation as scum vs town?
(c) would dragon make this accusation as town?

In true av style I’ll go through these backwards

(c) quite possibly something dragon thought of as town - enough people bought into the slip idea for it it be a feasible town move - but no one thought of it before dragon - and a number of people posted in response to it without making that link beforehand (including dragon himself!)

(b) absolutely it could be a push from scum - like my omi pr hunting push - something that’s indisputably bad

if it actually happened that way

without actually taking the reality of the likelihood into account

(a) this is the one I find most intriguing - in a dragon/Bella world, presumably Bella posts something in the pt after like “oh no I posted in the wrong thread!” and then dragon uses that to spark the pt slip discussion. I find this quite unlikely because I don’t think it’s a pt slip, which means to my mind Bella and dragon are probably not partners. There’s no reason for dragon to throw pt slip into the mix as a bus unless it was genuinely a pt slip.

tldr - I don’t think Bella is being bussed by dragon. It’s something to bear in mind when reading up on the rest of the thread.

So my vla ends today and I’ll do a proper catchup when I can (if the twins nap) but I won’t bother with a page by page like I did from 17+, I’ll probably read as much as I can and see where I’m at with everyone after each point. Hopefully that will be less “weird” lol

[AurorusVox]

I think *if* there’s scum it’s likely dragon which = bella town imo

I think either Bella or dragon could be scum, I don’t think they’re scum together, so I need to try to figure out which based on the rest of the game

[AurorusVox]

@venmar, but why? Why are these things scummy?

Re:AV, my issue isn't that he read our of turn, it's that the TR on me is cancelled out by an earlier sr: that doesn't seem like logical progression. If I go back and stare at page 12 or whatever, I probably sr black again but that isn't where the game or my reads are - it would be super weird.

Actually it’s the opposite.

The tr came first (first part of p17)
Then the scumread developed (second half of p17 iffy > scummy by p19)
Then mention of the slip thing made me question it
Then reading the slip (p6) was null, so I reverted back to my most up to date read (the scumread from more recent pages)

[AurorusVox]

Also I don’t see how happy can read black and not see them making reads. Even blacks catchup which could easily have been iioa contained reads throughout?

[AurorusVox]

Right I’m off to make the babies breakfast. Will try to get started on p1+ later on during their midday nap (pray for me)

[AurorusVox]

Happy you say you want to pelt people with questions, what questions do you have for black? Or dragon (your RVS but not really RVS vote)? I’ve not seen much in the way of you questioning them.

Ninjad delta saying what I’m about to say lol

[AurorusVox]

@bella I mean this is the extent to which I townread you (ie not very strong to begin with!)

Purely based on that I like Patch, for their reaction to dragons TR
This means I vibe with Bella

Bella posts this page have been like I want to townread them because they sound genuine but there’s also a bit of umm…inconsistency there?

Like she says she sounds like she’s pocketing comet while having a kinda scumread on them, but also doesn’t want comet in her lim pool for today. The strength of the patch townread also doesn’t really jive with the explanation she gave of it?

Bella I know you prefer people to ask you questions than speak about you so: is “not done anything scummy = patch town” stronger than “done something scummy = black/venmar scum” (the two people left in your limpool)?

I’m also intrigued by the final post on this page; venmar thinks you and delta are scum and you said that he’s asking for a vote between people who sr reach other (you and delta) but you also don’t have delta in your limpool…why is delta not in your pool if you sr them (especially to the point that it should be of note to venmar)?

I think by the second post it’s pretty clear that I’m questioning the town vibe from the first post.

The slip thing made me rethink (you said five people pushed you…) but when I checked it out, it wasn’t as much as I thought it would be and certainly not enough to sway the scumread I had been developing on you

Do you still think this progression is weird beyond the wonky timeline?


A follow up to a previous question before I got sidetracked by slipgate - regarding the reads around venmar specifically, you said you’re worried about reading him for the wrong reasons, but at the same time you said his posts are scummy independent of tone. Which part is the wrong reason you’re worried about? The posts or the tone? Like do you think the tone is townie but the posts themselves are not?

[AurorusVox]

Right I’m sat on my driveway and the twins are asleep in the back of my car.

Ideally they’d be asleep in their cribs so that I could eat lunch, tidy the house, shower etc. but silver lining is I can go back to read p1 onwards because I’m pretty much stuck here now til they wake up (don’t parent shame me for letting them sleep in the car please)

I remember reading the first few pages before I ducked out for vla and there’s a couple questions relating to the dragon vs black entrance that I can qualify because I never got round to it back then.

Dragons whole schtick about rolecop/roleblocker like I get the joke/reference but it just seemed so awkward and hamfisted, like “look at me being casual and jokey aren’t I town” - whereas blacks humour-posting

actually

seemed casual and cavalier and natural and funny, so as you can tell I preferred blacks entrance way more. What got me though was dragon posting joke content but then taking blacks joke content seriously and scumreading them for it???

Anyway my wife has just brought me some lunch because she’s an angel, so I’ll get back to this shortly. The above summarises what I hadn’t yet commented on from p1-3.

[AurorusVox]

Sorry that’s up to page 4 myb

The other thing I wanted to comment on from p4 was delta saying they wanted to join the black wagon (why didn’t you?) whilst complaining about it still being rvs (I’m not expecting you to really remember or answer but it’s pinged me so worth mentioning)

Okay now I’m eating

[AurorusVox]

This series of posts on p5 is ehhh

@Dragon rude of you to not throw my like 2 serious posts in that list

Do you mean 65 and 66?

I was trying to make it a short list pf posts so sorry if I missed some serious posts

Relates back to what black says later about dragon being overly concerned with how people read him, it looks to me like dragon is way too sensitive to blacks lighthearted comment.

Next up is slipgate on p6 so I’ll read a bunch of pages at once probably

[AurorusVox]

Slipgate I’ve already talked through my take on the push on bella, rereading it doesn’t change that it’s ultimately null for me. In context of pages 1-5 I can see why people jumped on it as it’s not particularly clear what it relates to but I don’t find Bella saying town!bella to be scummy and I still don’t believe it is a slip.

Venmar comes through on p7 to add to the push, but was voting Bella already so it’s not as if he’s using the “slip” to justify a vote there. That said I don’t follow the logic of his accusation because I think what he says he thinks it means isn’t what the post in question says (lemme just grab the quote hold on)

Where Bella in #127 was probably saying they think that as town they would make weak reads like in the above quoted post,

while scum would make a weak read and vote it anyway,

hence implicating that Bella is currently scum and they were saying that they think they made post #124 thinking it's something they'd post as town.

The bolded part is not what Bella’s post said. She actually said the opposite - she DOESN’T think scum would do that.

Okay venmar posts further down p7 are good so this wobble can be forgiven. P8 he’s no longer convinced it’s a slip so the above is pretty insignificant now (just deleted a few questions about it lol)

———

Anyway for the rest of p7 I do follow blacks logic even though I disagree with the outcome; black on p7 puts forward the most believable argument so far. This strengthens my black tr.

Comet not wanting to vote for fear of self hammer seems paranoid. Is that paranoid town or paranoid about their buddy being at e-1 so soon?? It’s thrown me off a little tbh.

Delta on p8 gets a bee in his bonnet about venmar saying “we”, I get what delta means (we = assuming a collective agreement, I teach this when doing speech writing lessons) but I don’t think that there’s anything sinister in what venmar was doing.

———

Okay and I also wanted to dedicate a bit of time to Bella’s defence of 127 where she’s saying she was referencing dragon saying his vote was weak…I don’t really see anywhere that dragon said his vote was weak? The post would make sense IF dragon was saying their vote was weak but all they’ve said is…they don’t like blacks entrance?

I can believe scum!Bella meant to make that post in game thread and my assumption here would be that it was intended to throw a townread at dragon that ultimately backfired.


I’m caught up to p8 but the boys are now awake so I’ll leave it there for now. Be back with more later on/tomorrow and will try to respond to newer posts as they happen.

Ninjad: venmar was already voting you but yeah he joins in on the next page (didn’t see that at first), but I also didn’t see patch or delta push it? I saw black comet and dragon.

[AurorusVox]

@bella I thought I was caught up on the slip stuff when I made my post about bussing tbh I only saw those three i mentioned but thanks for posting the six so clearly, I’ll have another look

Ninjad
Wait is the “and you” at me?

I’ve been pretty clear that I don’t think it was a slip

[AurorusVox]

Okay hold on

Bella I can’t believe this obvious scumslip!

[AurorusVox]

Is this eastermeet??

I really considered using my annual going away budget on it but I have a stag do in the summer that took priority! Maybe next time

[AurorusVox]

Noted, dragon has seemed okay in their reply to my post (hence my unvote) but based on posts further down it looks like dragon has used other people (namely you) to move them (back) onto voting delta. It feels a little manufactured. I go into more detail on this under the post itself.

Sorry, could you please clarify what you mean here? It's just sincerely confusing to me how I used people, and who voted Bella because of me.

You unvoted delta
You asked “should I revote delta?”
It seemed like you were using other people to justify your vote

Thanks for clarifying the stance in previous posts

Also it looks like there’s some additional context I need regarding you pushing me and black while we weren’t here (I haven’t got to that yet)

Delta accusing dragon of not voting black after dragon voted black is…sloppy more than anything. Delta has been low-key pinging me so far (on reread of Bella posting her “six”, it’s easy to see why I missed deltas stance on the slip because he mentions it in passing as if it’s a fact but never really engages with it in any real way)

Anyway, heading back to page 9 while the twins eat their tea (most of it is being thrown onto the floor atm)

[AurorusVox]

Page nine is mostly venmar vs delta on the use of we, I’ve already given my take on this.

Page 10 has dragon and black questioning the same thing I picked up about Bella’s explanation, it also has patch thinking it’s a slip and then accepting Bella’s explanation and saying slips like this rarely happen which…patch I know this is like months too late but why did you think it was a slip first if you also acknowledge that slips like this rarely happen?

P11 and Patch makes a good point about delta, and I think from memory it was patch that delta tunnelled on previously, so maybe there’s something to that.

Anyway that’s me for now the boys are currently running riot in the kitchen. Will try to do the rest later.

[AurorusVox]

What arguments have I referred to outside of the pages I’ve read? I’ve read p1-11 and p17-present.

Trust me, I’ll be happier than anyone else when I’m finally caught up and can just read current stuff lol.

The dragon case above is quite something. Will be interesting to see dragons response.

However: delta you say dragon is artificially on the black wagon and yet you yourself pointed out how it made more sense for dragon to be voting black…which is it?

[AurorusVox]

I mean, I’m reading a post or two at a time from recent pages whilst looking after my twins, I’ve been very clear that I’m keeping up to date with recent posts (namely so that I don’t have to add on a bunch more pages in catch up) and when I have a longer time period then I’ll dedicate it to catching up on the remaining pages I’m missing

Voting me because I chose to read 2-3 posts on a recent page rather than going back to read a whole page is wild

[AurorusVox]

Like seriously wtf that’s pissed me right off
How dare you tell me how to spend my time when I’m juggling this and looking after my kids

Like get the fuck outta here

You’ve been making shitty takes on my post since I started catching up, most of the time misreading or missing what I’ve actually said. Vote me for any of those shitty takes, I don’t really care, but don’t you dare tell me I should have read 4 pages of content while I’m sat with my kids

[AurorusVox]

That’s fucked me right off
Bye

[AurorusVox]

I’ll be back when I’ve calmed down a bit maybe when my kids are in bed and I can actually sit down with the rest of the pages but I don’t know now I might just sayonara the thread til tomorrow

[AurorusVox]

Fml this is why I read the recent stuff while catching up :’)

@black sorry for swearing at you, i got triggered a bit there last night. I’ll try to read whatever you’ve put here with a cooler head.

But yeah, I’m ignoring these latest 8 pages until I’ve read 12-16 and we’ll see~

Edit: got up to p14, p15/16 and p28+ coming later.

———

Page 12:

Dragon, you also are someone who says the “slip” being from the pt was “EXTREMELY unlikely” (your emphasis) - so why did you posit it was a PT slip at all to begin with? You were the first one to mention it as a PT slip but here on p12 what you’re saying doesn’t jive with that at all.

(P13: Bella makes this same point…)

———

Delta more tunnelling and then an abrupt change onto dragon? I don’t really follow deltas argument here, dragon explains why the read changed but didn’t leave a trail due to posting without fully reading everything. Delta vs dragon is really interesting one to me (esp given it’s still going on as of p28), I feel like I

want

to side with delta as dragon has been more scummy elsewhere (eg the above pt slip inconsistencies), but there’s something about deltas arguments that seem…bad faith? I’ll keep an eye on how it progresses in later pages.

(P13: okay so now delta unvotes based on dragons explanation, I kinda expect town!delta to go harder but I can’t really criticise since I think dragon defended the point well)*

———

Okay back to p12 and onto Bella, here she explains further what she meant in 127, this answers a question I had for her earlier. Ehh. It’s not really satisfactory, like it could still be a sloppy attempt at buddying or reaching for a townread because she KNOWS dragon is town. So yeah I’d say a Bella scumflip makes dragon more likely town.

Onto P13 - post 304 is a good summary tbf, it makes sense in the explanation I can believe that’s what Bella meant by the post, but the above still stands.

just deleted a couple of questions to Bella cos other people were asking similar stuff and she answers them further down p13…it’s kinda making me feel better about her slot, but like…there’s still the later stuff that I need to balance against this.

———

Then there’s the whole dragon suggesting delta votes me or black when we’re not here. I’m not…entirely convinced that dragon knew I was vla? He said something earlier in the thread about needing to hear from me and kawaii. It’s not as bad as I first thought it would be.

I feel like p13 is a bad page for scumreads cos like…everyone who I am suspicious of is redeeming themselves a bit??

Okay delta saves the day by doing something scummy. Suspicious of people who committed fully to the wagon but then going after comet who explicitly didn’t want to vote the wagon.**

Especially as this comes instead of maybe reigniting his pursuit of venmar/dragon who I think were still voting Bella? *Going back to the slight ping-y brevity of the dragon vote, I’m wondering if maybe that was delta distancing dragon??

**comet comes in on p14 to make this same point, so will see how delta responds (no response on this page, mostly patch posting lol)

———

Random partner association thoughts now:

Venmar swapping it up and voting delta for being Bella partner is interesting to me. I kinda wondered about this partnership during the delta vs dragon argument back on p12/13, as Bella scum makes dragon town much more likely imo, and in that argument I thought dragon was coming off better than delta, but I’m also inclined to look at the possibility of dragon/delta as distancing with how brief the vote on him lasted; and given that delta swapped to comet rather than eg dragon. Given the delta case on p28 though I’m not sure if it’s being pushed too far for that partnership to make sense.

At this point I’d maybe consider going delta, Bella, dragon in that order, but will see what later pages bring.

[AurorusVox]

Also I just realised there that patch is kinda in my blind spot at the moment, in that I’m not really interrogating their posts that much…think I’ll probably iso patch after I’ve caught up because when I said “mostly patch posting” I just kinda skimmed it

[AurorusVox]

P15 - more reasons to link delta and Bella, coming from dragon though so I don’t like it lol but I’m nodding along nonetheless

Delta is still going over the “we” point like is this tunnelling town!delta from last game? I find this hard to reconcile with the comet vote honestly.

Follow up posts do explain the comet vote in a bit more detail. Interesting take that comet makes a show of not being on the wagon, because she “knows” Bella is town…

Post 365 from dragon pings me scummy again, still pursuing the “you should be voting Bella, black, av” despite several people pointing out I’m vla at this point and black herself saying she wouldn’t be back until Monday? Like what even is that?

I don’t buy that dragon is defending venmar but more attacking delta with the semantic argument (how is this still going on??)

Oh yes, this is where the too scummy to be scum stuff starts with delta and dragon right.

I kinda see what delta means - dragon said town!delta would vote black, Bella, av, so delta says if I agreed and voted those you’d think I was town; dragon says that’s not what he’s saying, but I see why delta thought so.

I don’t follow why dragon would say this was too scummy to be scum tbh. It’s not egregiously way out of line to the point of outrageousness.

It does kinda throw a spanner in my delta/dragon theory because of the later dragon distancing his vote on delta via venmar; he’d have no reason to do that if he was distancing/bussing delta here.

Yeah that delta/dragon partnership was probably trash tbh.

———

P16 - main thing of note is comet comes through and solidifies a tr on her. Good posting re delta here much of which I agree with.

Ninjad: vote me all you like, that wasn’t what got me angry, it was the way you were telling me how I should have spent my time reading pages and pages of content. Anyway I’m caught up to p16 now so only another 8 pages to go…

Ninjad again: I don’t mean to respond to new stuff instead of catching up ( ) but who TRs delta atm?

[AurorusVox]

Just passing through the pages I’ve already covered in my earlier catchups and Bella you never addressed this (edited to just the pertinent point):

It's kind of the problem with your explanation as well: defendant, etc - it doesn't feel genuine. It also just doesn't follow for me: why would you care what Bella!scum thougjt of your post? Why wouldn't you interogate why I was supporting you in that moment, rather than using it as a 'gotcha' to the person you were arguing with?

How certain do you think venmar needs to be to

not

care what you make of his posts? Like unless he knows you’re 100% scum (impossible at this point) then there’s always the possibility you’re town, right? It kinda pings me that you’re arguing this from a confScum!bella point of view which only really works if you’re scum (and know you are).

I’m also confused because you ask why he cares what you think but also say he should interrogate it (like, doesn’t this suggest he doesn’t care?)

———

Also @black sorry I should have said thanks for apologising earlier too, I do appreciate it and I am much happier returning to the thread today after a lovely morning together - we’ve had lots of playtime and been to the library and got our first library cards, and now they’ve just had a nice long nap at home rather than in the car

Although one of them left me a present in their nappy during their sleep…

Let’s put it down to a bit of a misunderstanding and move on

I’ll get caught up from p28 onwards later tonight

[AurorusVox]

Most of the rest of p28 is black/av stuff that I don’t really wanna go into at this point

Happy pushing black I actually don’t mind (even if I disagree about the conclusions), I think blacks post to dragon was fine but I can at least see happys point in terms of the sort of stronger response they’d want to see (weak argument but well explained*)

*i get the same vibe from p29 which I’ll show below

P29 and I’m treating you to some quotes this time

Jesus H Fuck look at the time!

It's

Policy Lim

o'clock!

Ninja'd: I want to see where this goes, more for associative tells than the actual push.

What was this about?

@Black why do you call yourself th scum queen
you know that's a p big flag to most people right?

Lol. Is this part of your push?

YES this is my part of my push.
Literally why would you use that in your entrance given that it is a MAFIA game and you might be unintentionally claiming scum and I do not like that, seems like a throw to me, policying this. VOTE: Black

Lol wut

I don't like that Black agreed with Dragon over that scumslip with not much extra information
patch and comet just have wrong ideas.

You do know that patch and Comet also thought it could be a scumslip too right?

was the line "yeah I also think its a scumslip" that sticks out to me
The word 'also' was used, meaning that you agree with Dragon. However, no real extra information was given which makes me think you might be blindly followinng him and sheeping him, while comet and patch put some thought in this post, and no votes were cast.

Although I actually don’t mind this explanation for suspicion (similar vibe as before)

———

New page new weird happy push

It struck me all as proactive where I feel like a scum player might be more comfortable sitting in the back engaging in RVS humour and not drawing focus to themselves.

Not me as a scum player. I will try to act as proactive as possible because that's what townies should do and I'm sure good scum players also adopt this technique. The question is...is Dragon a good scum player?

don't like how nobody focused on this
"because that's what townies should do" seems like a slip and trying to blend in.
"I'm sure good scum players also adopt this technique" is p straightforward. This line speaks for itself i think.

This is not a good take, like at all

Patch voted venmar in kinda Rvs on page four, unvoted on page 11 and hasn't voted since 0.o

Yep this is a ping

Is this why I’m kinda skimming patch post? do they just not have much content that demands to be interrogated or any kind of hard take on anything?

Like in the post calling delta out for expecting them to hold the same view for 300 posts…it’s just kinda

there

but doesn’t really go anywhere?

I feel like I can read patch based on vibes and the vibes aren’t giving me scum, but that could be arrogance/ignorance/desire to be spirit animals on my part. But I haven’t really had any scumpings from patches posts, a lot of it is like…ehh. Neutral.

———

Onto p31 and okay I can see patch making a push on delta here. But it seems to be because delta ISNT tunnelling? But I kinda feel like delta WAS tunnelling on venmar for the “we” comment. Although delta jumps off that to vote dragon and later comet so maybe this is actually a good take from patch where he calls delta flip-floppy.

Later…

I need more evidence and I will post it soon

This reads as you don't have any more evidence and need to go find some. Why do I get the feeling that you don't really think I'm scum?

2 pieces of evidence is far less than enough
as we all say the more the merrier
so yes, I require more evidence.

This is just confirmation bias. You assume Black is scum first and then twist other information to fit your narrative.

Patch is confirmation bias not something that town suffers from? Since scum would know alignments. Here you say happy assumes black is scum which would suggest happy is town. But then you go on to vote happy for it anyway?

And to go back to the earlier patch point, there are criticisms of delta but then it’s going to be a venmar case (with vote) and the above happy vote which is just throwing me off…

That’s like…up to page 32. More later~

[AurorusVox]

@black what parts did you find townie about patch’s posts on the low 30s? I thought their push on happy for confirmation bias was pretty shaky.

I was mostly skimming through isos when I subbed in

Now you say you were just skimming? Why didn't you say that originally when you gave the read? You even doubled-down on it like Delta said. It wasn't until I forced you to expand on the read that you conveniently admitted you didn't actually read the isos

Seems pretty bad from happy tbh.

Yeah I'm actually pretty sure I'm the player with the most nulls at this point (including slight leans) there's like, four players

Ahhh my G this isn’t helping lol

guys is it bad that i have four people i marked in my head as "potentially scum"
delta's there just for the vibes
venmar's there also for the vibes
dragon's there for the associative
actually fuck i think all of them are just there because of the associatives, if one of them's scum all of them could have potentially been scum with each other because of course i keep tinfoiling lmao

and the last one's just happy

dropping a readlist since this seems to be a trend
TOWN
-
vox - what can i fucking say lol. super towny. i love you platonically vox you're literally the best.
anyways yeah, vox is my strongest townread. i've talked about why earlier, but if you haven't seen those posts, to me, he just radiates town. also, meta is another reason why. he's not manipulative, he's not slapping townreads onto people. he just feels like town vox
black - viberead, subject to change

NULL - TOWN
-
bella - initially thought she was scum due to the bad wording of her "slip", but how she reacted to that and her current play is much more towny.

NULL / CANNOT READ
-
comet - sorry can't read you
dragon - sorry can't read you, thought you were towny but something about your play is just off. idk.

NULL - SCUM
-
venmar - willing to compromise here. there's a lot on venmar but most of it is just thought process, vibes, and continuity (correct word?).

SCUM
-
delta - honestly i don't think he's paired with happy. he just doesn't give me that Ping! i get when he's town, he hasn't pushed me early, he flip-flops around like a fish, and then there's meta. he makes thoughtful posts, but it just doesn't feel right.
happy - probably my strongest scumread at the moment, but i'm willing to compromise on them. i can understand their play if they're just really bad town, and i understand that english isn't their first language so there's definitely a communication barrier. however, the really reachy push on black, the "GUYS YOU'RE SO PASSIVE DO SOMETHING" and proceeding to fluffpost for the next three pages, etc. they're just not towny.

Both of these posts make me feel happier about patch because they’re just being open and explaining the reads
<3 my bro

I have never pushed him? I've consistently TRead or NAI'd him. Feel free to point to posts I haven't

OH SHIT my bad i must've misremembered, you can go into null MY BAD

Wait why does Venmar go up to null after you said he was scummy for thought process, vibes, and continuity?

Ffs black this post is making me less happy about patch again lol

You also said that you’re getting pockety vibes on the next page…ahh I’m worried I’m blind to this. Patch has been my G and defended me in places when I wasn’t around to defend myself and like I want to believe it’s because we’re homies but I’ve just gone back to the readslist and the difference in style between what they’ve put about me and about you (top 2 trs) is just so extreme lol

Yep the limpool stuff is weird, actually wasn’t delta the one “squeezed out” by happy earlier and yet dragon is further null than delta so…??

I also see your recent posts in response to my prior patch comments there @black, let me get to them now while I’m on a patch tangent, let’s just say this page my read has shifted a bit more but let me explain where my head was at prior to that

Re: neutrality I mean like there’s been nothing when I’ve read a lot of patch posts that’s caused me to stop and think deeper about it. There’s not been the same sort of things like with eg Bella delta dragon which has made me go “wait let me question this further”. I think Bella said something similar earlier on, she tr patch strongest early game because they hadn’t done anything scummy (and not necessarily because they’d done anything townie)

As for vibe reading patch I mean like I’ve not actually seen patch scum so I probably can’t qualify this tbh. I might just be buying into the av/patch bff hype. I think I kinda filed patch as townread based on my first page gut read and never really interrogated it beyond that because there wasn’t really anything that caused me to.

Obviously that’s changed over the last page(s) I’ve read as there are some things I have questions about.

[AurorusVox]

Sorry that post is sloppy because I didn’t go back to correct it where things changed hope you can follow the thought process as it develops during the course of reading the page

[AurorusVox]

Oh look I’m posting on p36 this morning lol

Ahhh patch I find this so hard now
The madness of the reads just being everywhere is kinda like I feel that right? And the posting stuff that then changed and just being like fuck it I have no idea. It seems like genuine someone who’s bamboozled and not someone who’s trying to construct a successful way out of d1 based on inside info. At the same time it’s so all over the plane and inconsistent like it could just be because it’s weakly fabricated and I really don’t know anymore :’(

I think if patch can answer:

(1) why they voted happy over confirmation bias
(2) why delta was originally squeezed out instead of dragon

I think that’ll help me get a handle on them

———

Bella tr delta is like…
Bella/delta scumpair likelihood increasing

Patch and vox giving each other a mutual skim pass is odd tho

Like Bella you literally said on the previous page you were reading patch the same lol

I guess it’s worse when it’s both ways /shrug

But from what I could tell only 3 people pushed it

I'm pretty sure Delta was involved somewhere in the push too - it was part of the reason I found his later push on me for being in it kinda scummy.

(a) this is the one I find most intriguing - in a dragon/Bella world, presumably Bella posts something in the pt after like “oh no I posted in the wrong thread!” and then dragon uses that to spark the pt slip discussion. I find this quite unlikely because I don’t think it’s a pt slip, which means to my mind Bella and dragon are probably not partners. There’s no reason for dragon to throw pt slip into the mix as a bus unless it was genuinely a pt slip.

Maybe not helpful but actually a pet paranoid theory of mine I've been considering. I read this game a while back (not on this forum, a werewolf forum) where in a huge high-level game one of the scum players actually posted an extremely obvious post meant for scumchat in main chat and it went by unnoticed for a day before one player spotted it and called it out. In the end this actually turned out to be another player in the scumteam who then used the towncred from outing a werewolf to survive till the end and win the game for werewolves. Now, I doubt we've got machinations going on to that extent in Newbie 2119 - but I think if the scumslip actually is real then it would be wrong to auto-clear Dragon for it.

I just don’t see why you would out that specifically if that wasn’t what happened, like I guess it could happen but it’s not at the forefront of my mind in terms of possible bus plays

@AV: Do you think there is one scum in Black/Comet/Dragon? You say you don't think there is two but I don't want to misinterpret what you're saying because of how it reads.

The fact that Delta reads this post and is seemingly happy to let AV's error in who was actually involved in the push slide (as he should be in that group too!) also feels pretty weird to me.

Thanks for pointing this out, that’s…pretty alarming

I do appreciate it and I am much happier returning to the thread today after a lovely morning together - we’ve had lots of playtime and been to the library and got our first library cards, and now they’ve just had a nice long nap at home rather than in the car

I'm really happy to hear this!

Although one of them left me a present in their nappy during their sleep…

...not so much this XD

Oh they’ve been at it all day

Page 34 Happy counter-push feels scummy to me. Comes across as very opportunistic and I think the person at the forefront of my mind regarding it is Patch.

Yeah I think happy is an easy push for scum because they’re just pulling the strangest takes but when you look closely their logic is followable at least

Comet is like probably top town read tbf

———

vc

You couldn't have waited 3 more posts for pagetop? smh

Black has been modkilled.

Spoiler: The role

AnNoYiNg

Loooool I legit actually laughed out loud

Can you link me to that, comet?

@ AV, I feel like I've answered that elsewhere and I also don't feel like talking about venmar more is productive for me today and it certainly isn't for him: one of my issues with him is that he's focused on some stale reads, so circling the same thing isn't gonna move that on.

I feel like you haven’t because I re-read your posts after that question and I didn’t see any response. Like I get not wanting to go over old ground again and fair enough game has moved on etc but like…you said he shouldn’t care this much but also asked him to interrogate it more…it seems like damned if he does damned if he doesn’t? basically I don’t like your take on venmar. Have you updated it at all since then or? I saw you’re not voting in latest vc so…

The rest is talking about patch scum game which…I mean I don’t really wanna read it lol I’ve literally just caught up here :’) interesting similarities mentioned tho and yeah the scumslip lack of mention here is like boggling my brain a bit, add that to the questions patch needs to answer above.

I think blacks post to dragon was fine but I can at least see happys point in terms of the sort of stronger response they’d want to see

In an argument the stronger response generally comes after the accusation has been explained. There's nothing wrong with me asking Dragon how I'm lying before jumping down his throat for it, and I think this comes off as a bit forced by Happy. He was actively looking for things to confirm his SR

Don’t get me wrong I don’t agree with what happy is saying, I’m just saying I can follow why they believe it



I HAVE NOW READ ALL 39 PAGES OF THIS GAME!

I may have burnt my tea but fuck it I’m done

[AurorusVox]

Comet
Venmar
Black
Happy
Dragon
Patch
Bella
Delta

Delta vla so not much point voting there right now

VOTE: bella

@black my read is leaning scum atm tbh, as above moreso than dragon who kinda faded a bit? I have open questions for patch that will help solidify that read hopefully

And yeah I got a gut townvibe there and then there was nothing to really rock it based on what I was reading until I realised I was kinda giving patch a pass and started to interrogate their posts more, I think this also coincided with a few of their dodgier / more inconsistent takes and posts?

[AurorusVox]

Would vote patch but want to wait til they’ve had a chance to respond to my Qs, based on what they say that may take them off the table for me

Would also be very happy to see a delta wagon when they’re back

[AurorusVox]

Bella tr delta is like…
Bella/delta scumpair likelihood increasing

Does wolf take this stance with their buddy? Being one of only two people to TR Delta seems risky imo

Three with happy, btw

[AurorusVox]

Bella chill, you know I love you. I'm literally trying to comment on Patch and talk to others as well

eyebrow raised on that post
why are you focusin on patch
you know black wants to push patch so you do it as well to gain towncred in her reads
haiyaa not having that

Happy you are currently voting patch, does that mean you believe venmar is focusing on patch as a bus in your eyes?

[AurorusVox]

I've told you my read on you is rubbish, dragon: I see some towny thought process but some of your posting comes over as buddying/fake/too focused on how you look.

Honestly right now one of the biggest things in your favour is that you reacted first to the 'slip': it feels like a pretty wild gambl for scum to take.

I found your engagement with black super weird patch but the last few pages have been better. You seem to be posting today as the whims strike, which...feels risky for scum..My reads are shot, I think we need to shift to a wagon and get some consolidation/info after night. We need either a compromise lim, which right now feels like dragon or happy or an info lim (black/delta? Who I basically tr)

We really rushed the lims last game but it wasn't an accident, it was very scum sided.

O edit why the fuck are we back at RVs?

Also talking of fuck, the tone of that dragon post was super weird.

VOTE: dragon

@patch, when you get a sec can you talk about the 'scun slip' in your scum game?
.

Bella are you voting dragon for a compromise lim or is there something else? I can’t see much in the way of you providing sr for dragon in these posts, the first post is as far back as I had to go to see something and even then you give towncred for the “wild gamble” of calling your post a slip. The second to last “weird tone” one I’m not even sure what post you’re referring to tbh. Black asked the same and afaict you never responded?

[AurorusVox]

Patch is confirmation bias not something that town suffers from? Since scum would know alignments. Here you say happy assumes black is scum which would suggest happy is town. But then you go on to vote happy for it anyway?

No, I'm not scumreading happy for it. i'm just saying it's confirmation bias + later moved happy up to a null

Okay remove “for it” from my post and the point still stands. Do you follow my logic that confirmation bias suggests happy is town? And then two or three posts later you’re voting them?

[AurorusVox]

Ahhh patch I find this so hard now
The madness of the reads just being everywhere is kinda like I feel that right? And the posting stuff that then changed and just being like fuck it I have no idea. It seems like genuine someone who’s bamboozled and not someone who’s trying to construct a successful way out of d1 based on inside info. At the same time it’s so all over the plane and inconsistent like it could just be because it’s weakly fabricated and I really don’t know anymore :’(

I think if patch can answer:

(1) why they voted happy over confirmation bias
(2) why delta was originally squeezed out instead of dragon

I think that’ll help me get a handle on them

sorry i don't mean to be chaotic i just post as i think
1) i didn't actually vote happy over confirmation bias, it was over the really bad push.
2) honestly no idea it should've been dragon, but as i've said i have no idea what's going on with the bottom layer of my readlists at the moment

Point 2 - if you have no idea why didn’t you keep them all in?

[AurorusVox]

Delta 1010 I have mixed feelings about. I like that he’s providing reads and explanations but like…the majority of the reads are scum? I haven’t seen much in the way of delta trying to determine which of these reads are accurate (comparatively), I think I’d like to see a ranked reads list rather than the awkward mix of starting with null town then mixing in some scum and town reads in a random order?

[AurorusVox]

When did you start tr’ing venmar?

[AurorusVox]

Or sorry maybe I should ask when did you stop sr’ing him

[AurorusVox]

I find your limpool really weird tbh, you don’t really seem to have spent much time working through these reads. Like eg Comet I just don’t see where you’re getting a sr there, I did a quick iso + find “comet” and I had to go back to like p19 before I find anything you’ve said about them being scummy?

Tonally, comet is super town and in trying not to let that influence me like I'm trying not to let venmar being frustrating influence my read. I'm not saying I want comet to start a random 1 v1 but just chat though some more individual thought processes.

Re: inconsistencies around reads, I think I answered this but I think a big part of it is I'm worried I'm reading people for the wrong reasons, specifically with venmar and comet (I find venmars posting independently scumny of their tone, but I am worried I'm sr-ing comet's being affable as a scum agenda to 'blend in'). Comet, venmar and black wre all in the slip group too - I'm 99% certain one scum is here.

Re: patch was the lack of mentioning the scumslip and patch’s explanation bad enough to move them down from your previous read of null town, or is it just a weaker read you would compromise lim on? Just want to be clear about why they’re there.

I get you haven’t trd me today so I can understand why I’m there for you, but last time you mentioned me was saying I was against my scum meta + that it was odd I was skimming patch (despite saying you did the same, which shouldn’t really be a scum ping for you if you’re town, should it?)

[AurorusVox]

Ehh actually on that last point you said it’s odd we were skimming each other so probably not hypocrisy tbf I’ll take that back

[AurorusVox]

I wasn’t dragging you back to venmar, I was surprised they weren’t in your limpool after being your main push of the day

It’s like if I just suddenly decided you weren’t on the cards for me today, that would be weird

And I’m hardly majorly focusing on you, literally my last few posts have been about you, delta and patch, the three people I am looking at voting today?

[AurorusVox]

This is hypocrisy now: what do you think about the fact the wagons have been so stale?

What do you mean by “stale”?
Like no one going to e-1 already?
Or votes that have stayed in the same place a long time? Cos I think a lot of people have changed votes a fair bit no? And nothing seems to be taking hold?

i didn't really bother to think beyond that

This really isn’t a very good response tbh.
You’ve also just not responded to my second post to you.

I think we should start sharing 2-3 people each that we'd be ok limming today

I'll compile a list of the lim pools and maybe we can reach a consensus lim?

I see Bella's on the last page and mine is {Dragon; patch; happy}

Bella, delta, patch

I do think it's slightly Sus that a)more people have you vageuly on their scum pile with less clear reasons than me and b) AV is more interested in bothering me about that than them.

Like who tho?

Patch - apparently there’s a venmar case incoming. This has already been pressured and we’re all waiting for it. I’ve also pushed patch based on his lim pool inconsistencies and voting, so not sure why you think I’m not bothered about patch?

Delta - I’ve repeatedly said I find deltas focus on the “we” argument with venmar problematic, and that I want to see a ranked readslist from delta to see where his limpool is it. If delta didn’t have venmar in his limpool it would be weird and I would push that too.

Happy - I’ve asked happy to clarify his venmar accusation in my previous post to him?

Like if you don’t want to engage with the venmar push anymore I’m not going to try to force you. That’s your choice, and if you want to focus elsewhere that’s fine, but I just think it’s odd that that decision came without really being explicit in thread why - and I’m entitled to voice that. And of course some of my catchup posts would be asking you about outdated stuff because I was reading them 20 pages after you posted them.

I also don’t think it’s fair to say I’m overly focused on you. Plenty of my posts have dealt with other players.

[AurorusVox]

Also my first q to you today was about dragon, not venmar…so not really trying to drag you back to it, until you posted your limpool. It’s pretty obvious that’s what prompted my question?

[AurorusVox]

I think delta has been the leading wagon since like....Friday? I was e-3 before that, then am still the joint lead I think? That normally suggests that the scum are fine with the wagons, no?

Hmm okay see I also thought maybe it suggested the wagons were on scum because they hadn’t picked up much velocity, but I see from your town!pov that’s what it might suggest - is this one of the reasons you’d be against a delta wagon?

What you think of the hypothetical patch wagon - he seems to be in a few limpools but not many people actually voting him? He seems like a lot of peoples second or third choice.

[AurorusVox]

Patch time:

Point 2 - if you have no idea why didn’t you keep them all in?

i didn't know how scummy they were relative to each other so i just tried to figure out who i should squeeze out and who i should keep in.

I still don’t know why you felt you had to squeeze someone out?

also no one answered my question about why i should've mentioned my scumslip? i don't get why it's relevant to this game + it wasn't a scumslip in the first place

It didn’t sound like a scumslip how you described it and not a pt slip in any version anyway. I don’t think it’s a case against you that you didn’t bring it up because they’re quite different.

Edit: Bella makes an interesting point tbh. But am I wrong, wasn’t patch actually scum there? So wouldn’t they actually be like “I got accused of scumslip, it wasn’t, but I was still scum” so makes the whole thing null? But yeah, could have been offered as a defence of Bella (and maybe makes patch thinking it was a slip more suspect?)

Patch - apparently there’s a venmar case incoming. This has already been pressured and we’re all waiting for it. I’ve also pushed patch based on his lim pool inconsistencies and voting, so not sure why you think I’m not bothered about patch?

i'm actually doing dragon because i really don't scumread venmar all that much anymore and i skimmed over the iso just now and it's about as boring as i remember it to be
dragon is a better slot to start discussion over as well

Like…

I don’t get this. Didn’t you literally just put venmar in your limpool??

not the casual misgendering from vox
dude you keep forgetting so i'm just gonna. poke you again. pronouns r they/the,m

[ My G I’m genuinely sorry I’ve been making such an effort this game and if it helps this is the first time I’ve made the mistake :’( ]

[AurorusVox]

I still don’t know why you felt you had to squeeze someone out?

too much scumreads is bad

But…if you still scumread them????? Help me understand.

Like…

I don’t get this. Didn’t you literally just put venmar in your limpool??

i changed my mind

1. Black - (Dragon, patch, happy)
2. Bella - (Dragon, patch, Comet, AV)
3. happy -
4. Dragon -
5. patch -
6. Delta -
7. Comet -
8. Venmar -
9. AV -

Limpool is dragon delta venmar in whatever order I really don't know

Patch - apparently there’s a venmar case incoming. This has already been pressured and we’re all waiting for it. I’ve also pushed patch based on his lim pool inconsistencies and voting, so not sure why you think I’m not bothered about patch?

i'm actually doing dragon because i really don't scumread venmar all that much anymore and i skimmed over the iso just now and it's about as boring as i remember it to be
dragon is a better slot to start discussion over as well

In the space of 4 minutes?

Pedit: it doesn’t show timings fml

21:07 and 21:11

[ My G I’m genuinely sorry I’ve been making such an effort this game and if it helps this is the first time I’ve made the mistake :’( ]

it actually happened once before but i didn't want to call you out for it

[ please call me out on it! It’s a shitty thing to make the mistake. I’ve generally got it right but gone back to edit once or twice where I’ve not, clearly missed it in these most recent posts, and again, I’m very sorry ]

[AurorusVox]

Why does it feel unnatural?

[AurorusVox]

IT JUST DOES

Nah but fr if I had to try and quantify it I would say it seemed like you only came around to SRing her after everyone else. I guess it feels like a sheeped read and kinda convenient

Nah I get that; it’s my fault for giving them a vibe town pass early doors and skimming posts. But I think I also happened to catch myself on this and start reading more deeply when they were posting more suspect content - and it doesn’t help that I was catching up at the time so it all feels out of place.

[AurorusVox]

In the space of 4 minutes?

Pedit: it doesn’t show timings fml

21:07 and 21:11

i said "in no particular order" + i had decided that i wanted to do dragon long before i posted my new limpool
again venmar's iso is just ... boring. it's really dry and still sort of an ultranull

Can I make sure I’m understanding here

When venmar was in your posted limpool was he null to you? And was he there -for- or -despite- being null?

[AurorusVox]

Holy shit, I've been away for wayyyy too long and now there's 20 new pages.
Umm there's no way I am going to catch up on all that tonight but just gonna skim the last 2-3 pages and see what's going on.

Can I recommend a really good way of catching up?

[AurorusVox]

There’s a big case from delta that you should probably read and respond to btw, like very close to where you left off. Page 28 I think.

[AurorusVox]

Sorry, page 27 actually

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Dragon

1. You voted Black in #650, then later on said:

I am 100% committed to the Delta vote.

You say you've explained it several times, but honestly I just don't get it. I'm too scummy to be scum, until I'm not - referencing a game where you thought they were a Village Idiot, and then scum again... like I don't actually get it. Referencing a game where you mention VI feels like just trying to set up a future discreditting of my points, something you've already done numerous times by referring to my very genuine (and still bloody good) arguments as 'Semantics' and not seeing past the surface to the actual meat of the argument, only to sheep the person I'm arguing against.

You even went on a few posts back to say that you thought I was 'Too scummy to be scum' which in itself serves to discredit my posts along a different line but then 'Venmar made me re-evaluate, but I came to the conclusion myself that...' it doesn't make sense. Why would town!Dragon be so trusting of Venmar's views but then want to put distance between how the read came about and how they arrived at it? It feels like an artificial attempt to distance from Venmar, which when you then go on to look at the defence of Venmar previously stacks up to really stink.

Forgive me if the language feels a bit aggrieved.

2. How are you in the middle of catching up if you're reacting in like real-time to people in-thread? By intuitively knowing that Black was referring to Patch but without them mentioning it, it suggests that you're conscious of a scumread on you even when people don't implicitly mention it. Like why would you care? Sure if it gets to like L-2/L-1 then be concerned but I mean you have some votes on you, why is your response to try and ascertain what people are looking at you for instead of scumhunting? That brings me to:

3. Your posting is very much reactionary and informational than questioning and solving. So far today the only questions you have asked are either clarification or charged rhetoricals that defend you against people's pushes rather than actually indicate a desire to gamesolve. I don't see any questioning or analysis beyond analysing the intent of the pushes on you, only defense. It's just not a town-indicative action in my opinion.

4. Using meta to the extent that you do, and particularly in self-defence is usually poor play IMO - but when using it to the extent that you have in self-defence, as I've pointed to above, it to me indicates a scum player struggling for reasons to actually defend themselves, and rather than commit to finding scum by gamesolving, asking questions and analysing the game - you've consistently taken the action of reacting (in real-time) to people who SR you and querying people about how they feel about you.

---

It all feels very off - the worst thing for me is trying to use self-referential meta to justify what is typically a pretty scummy behaviour which is then also backed up by a weird trust forming between Dragon and Venmar. It feels one-way, I don't think Venmar is acting the same way towards Dragon and I don't neccessarily think it implicates them together, but I do think that Dragon is now artificially on the Black wagon and maintaining an option on myself through a lack of ability to scumhunt.

Not because they can't in terms of skill, but because they mechanically can't due to alignment.

---

Ninja'd by AV:

I won't lie, I don't know what to make of AV's topsy-turvy, wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey way of reading the game. On the one hand, I'm appreciative of their time being taken up by IRL responsibilities, on the other they've made reference to arguments that have taken place across most pages yet they're currently only on

Page 9.

Ninja'd by AV: Page 11. I get the Patch question and would be keen on seeing an answer but I kind of TR Patch and their gameplay here. It's felt like a pretty genuine attempt to solve which bumps them up my reads list.

[AurorusVox]

Also how did you know to respond to this if you’ve not at least been reading along?

1. Black - (Dragon, patch, happy)
2. Bella - (Dragon, patch, Comet, AV)
3. happy -
4. Dragon -
5. patch -
6. Delta -
7. Comet -
8. Venmar -
9. AV -

Mine is Delta, Bella, Black.

Also this happened 20 pages ago, but to reply to what Delta said about me voting Black while saying I am committed to Delta vote - I was asked by someone if I am committed to my vote on Delta or if I am going to flip flop. I am not going to flip-flop. However at the moment I said that I still thought Black was scummier.

However, I am going to have to catch up more fully (either tomorrow or on Saturday) to see which one of them I think is scummier.

I saw the most recent VC (I think) and both Delta and Bella have more votes than Black, I think? So I wouldn't mind changing my vote for either rn. Feel free to tell me which one you think is a better wagon and why.

[AurorusVox]

Hi all, had a lovely full day with the fam yesterday so a little behind the ball here.


Dragon response to delta gives me a wall post right off the bat. Let me pick out the more pertinent stuff fmpov:

- The 100% committed point I kinda get what dragon is saying ie he’s committed to reading delta as scum (even if his vote is elsewhere); but you also mention you saw black as scummier AND that you’d be happy to look at Bella as a vote, but we know all three can’t be scum, so where does that leave your 100% commitment to a delta scum read? I feel like the “100%” is so hyperbolic since it just doesn’t track with your play. Like were you presumably also 100% committed to black when you scumread them? What % does that leave for being open to voting Bella then?

- you say Venmar got you to reevaluate, but like isn’t that the same as using venmar’s reasoning to alter your read? Ie exactly what I accused you of earlier on?

- do you think accepting you haven’t expressed your trs clearly validates any of the argument delta is making or do you maintain its entirely in bad faith?

- I don’t really wanna get into the meta argument. I think scum reading someone for using or not wanting to use meta is unhelpful because ultimately it’s personal preference.


Black comes in with some serious questions for dragon - and she’s right, dragons position on her just feels so wonky. How dragon sr’d black more than delta (given all the things he’s said about delta) needs serious explaining.

Edit: Dragon hasn’t yet responded on this page so we’ll see if he says anything to this next page

Edit edit: Dragons response to this point is not good at all, he basically says “yeah you’re right I’ll iso you later also i need to read happy” - like dude this is a key thing you need to respond to, this throwaway response is not good.

Also I think I had a q for you you’ve not touched on yet which was when you said bella being a scumslip was EXTREMELY unlikely (your emphasis) why did you bring it up as a scumslip in the first place?

———

Patch I love your strawberry jam analogy lol

But like you say ultranull as if it’s literally zero tells either way but you also say scumlean so it’s just bamboozling me

Do you think the “dryness” of venmars iso is literally NAI or do you see it indicating scumminess (even if just a little)?

oof dragon's return has kicked my paranoiabrain into delta/dragon associatives again
i'll read through the long post later

Do you think Dragon busses his partner D1 when he has other options he could pivot to instead?

i have no idea but as town i would not take that scumcase on me and i feel like dragon would be trying to mimic that
i think what they're trying to do here is do a failed push on each other to distance and that's it (which is why delta hopping off dragon so fast is what pinged me a little)

I also felt this way back when, but I kinda trashed the idea when they went back at each other. I think there are pings like delta being on dragon so briefly and dragon going after black when they have “100% commitment” to delta but I also think like black says it’s almost gone too far to be distancing?

———

Point of Patch being too universal of a elimination here though is one I was thinking of myself while at work today - which means either A: it's scum and scumpartner is bussing or B: this is town and scum are happily riding the mislim wagon. Not sure atm which is more likely.

Could the same be said for delta and dragon? Or is it specifically tipping to 6 instead of 5 that gives this impression? I think part of what’s making the patch wagon hard to get a handle on is the chaos of patch’s posting tbh. I know that’s what’s giving me pause at least.

And you’ve offered up two scenarios, do you have any take on who the scum would be in each case? Like you sr delta pretty hard but I’m not sure he fits into either one.

———

So it looks like today's lim should be between patch/Delta/Dragon. Delta is going to come in tomorrow and likely put Dragon in his pool which would leave us with patch (6), Delta (5), and Dragon (5)

Just going off the last VC...the only people not voting within these 3 already are AV, Venmar, and Bella... so I think ya'll should spend some time before the deadline figuring out which of these 3 are the scummiest to you

UNVOTE:

Yeah I’ll make a call on one of those three once I’ve read through the remaining pages, I’d vote any of them rather than see a no-lim tbh.

Dragon was my least preferred of the three but their wall post has ruffled my feathers and reignited some of my concerns so I want to see how they play out over the next few pages.

I also feel like delta hasn’t been around much so need to see if they appear in the next few pages to make that call between those two.

Edit: yikes delta catchup, another wall. I’ll leave my post here for now and take a proper look at this after a break. It looks meaty and I can’t digest it right now.

———

I'm gonna be honest, idk if I am actually a big fan of Black trying to collect everyone's lim pool and try to make it seem like we have to look at limming someone due to "consensus". Feels a bit more manipulative and controlling than what I'd expect from town? Nothing is stopping scum here from noticing that many people have shaded Patch and then trying to collect lim pools to try and make that push seem like the consensus.

I'm not saying I am not TReading Black anymore but the last few pages during my catchup have given me this gut feeling

Like I did this exact same thing in my last two games (as scum), but I did it because I thought it was a townie thing to do. I also think we’re hitting a critical point with deadline looming so getting a sense of where everyone’s head is at and organising for a lim to occur is protown regardless?

Aaaand then we’re at another wall post, I’ll get into that later~

[AurorusVox]

@delta wall post

- I don’t think you can say comet hasn’t scumhunted or pressured? I don’t get that at all. They’ve pretty consistently been posting their thoughts and asking questions and analysing posts?

- you’d rather a no-lim than a consensus lim? Wtf is that! A no lim gives literally zero information from there being no flip and puts the first power of directing the gamestate straight into scum hands. This is a pretty big red flag tbh.

- I mean I don’t get how you can have an issue with me catching up in the middle of a catch-up post lol. It just seems like such a non-starter. Obviously some of the stuff that pings me is going to be old because that’s how time works it just seems like a way for you to try to discredit my reads

- ironically delta is actually picking up some of the stuff I put in my catchup around dragon.

- re: misrepping and semantics, delta can you explain in like very simple terms, why you scumreading the use of the word “we” is not a semantics argument? I’ve gone back to check and when you actually look at what was said it was a conditional statement (“if”) and also qualified as possibly not being true through the use of “assumption”. I don’t think Venmar was artificially limiting the pool since he qualified his position as being uncertain. And as for it being semantics, if Venmar had said “if *I’m* going to work with *my* assumption of partnership being either comet or delta, my knee jerk is…” would that have pinged you the same?

- hold up you’re so against meta but didn’t you use meta to arrive at your patch tr earlier in this very post?

I don’t like this post at all, I’ll probably be voting here but lemme get caught up and see the latest vc etc I feel like delta ought to be at or around e-1 by this point lol

———

Venmar 1212 is *chefs kiss*
Patch 1214 is *bleurgh*

@delta but the collating of reads in and of itself isn’t going to do anything, it’s down to us as players to push each other to justify why certain slots are in our limpool?? That’s literally what’s been happening with like everyone who’s posted their pools so far. In fact the only person that hasn’t really happened with is YOU because you haven’t shared your pool OR given the ranked readslist I asked for last time?

Like I have no idea where you’re at relatively speaking because you haven’t shared it so if anything you’re the one working toward the scenario you say you want to avoid

———

if someone quickhammers we just hammer them d2

You mean like when you lolhammered omi

Honestly this feels like a bit of a posture when you’ve been the quickhammerer in the past ha


Re delta vs venmar, I’ve been pretty much on side with venmars points throughout the exchange. Eg deltas 1230 I just find so hard to follow; like I don’t agree with any of his interpretation of venmars post.

Honestly I struggle to see this ending with anything other than VOTE: delta

That’s e-1

———

does having the most votes for the longest attribute towards the elimination? because if so delta gets voted and I dont want that
willing to switch plur to dragon

@happy no one has answers this yet but time spent as leading wagon makes no difference. It only matters when someone has received 5 votes (in this case we are one away on both dragon and delta)


Ninjad: so in terms of venmar they are on the scummy side of null for you? And based on your 1214 you have at least four players scummier than venmar I think - dragon, delta, comet and happy?

Ninjad again: yeah black, I don’t think it’s scummy though or I wouldn’t have done it as scum lol

[AurorusVox]

@comet wtf why would you even speculate about that

[AurorusVox]

I feel better about comet’s post again after black and comets exchange tbf

@Bella how?
Me, comet and dragon are voting delta and we are all in your limpool…

[AurorusVox]

It was meant for the pt

[AurorusVox]

No I know I was being facetious lol

[AurorusVox]

@venmar Bella agreed with black that her trs were voting delta but of the four people voting delta, 3 are in her limpool and one is you…

Suggestion being she’s messed up in failing to keep her (fake) reads straight

[AurorusVox]

@venmar i didn’t really mean I thought it was a pt slip, I was trying and failing to be funny

[AurorusVox]

The charitable interpretation doesn’t work anyway

There were only two wagons at the time, delta and dragon, and it only makes sense to agree with black if your trs are on the opposite wagon (for Bella this would mean her trs are on delta)

UNVOTE:

Just in case of Bella lolhammer

[AurorusVox]

VOTE: bella

Plan B would be back to delta

[AurorusVox]

Delta is playing like someone who knows their partner is getting limmed and wants to distance from her…

Edit: delta if you’re worried about chaining lims in this scenario it would only work if Bella was scum anyway, do you think Bella’s partner is pushing her today to get you limmed tomorrow? Why wouldn’t they just vote you first instead?

[AurorusVox]

Delta is playing like someone who knows their partner is getting limmed and wants to distance from her…

Wouldn't the distancing play be to admit it's probably a slip and vote for her? I'm not sure how you consider defending her as distancing tbh

Distancing as in defending his own position relative to Bella. Like focusing on why he’s not the partner rather than why Bella might be the scum.

[AurorusVox]

Distancing probably not the right word tbf

[AurorusVox]

@black I’m more inclined to believe the cc tbh

If delta was going to fake a pr claim imo he would have waited to get to e-1 as he could just claim it then and not go into a 1v1

Fakeclaiming there makes no sense as scum

[AurorusVox]

I thought about that but if you’re going to fakeclaim here, you’re going to do it at e-1 too

I don’t think we’d have limmed delta if they claimed a doc-adjacent pr at e-1, would we?

[AurorusVox]

UNVOTE:

Delta and bella are now both essentially claimed PRs

If no one counters this, they are both cleared?

No. If no one counters then DELTA is clear but there are a couple of scenarios in which there is only one pr (not doc)*

That said, we don’t lim Bella or delta if we have no other pr claims

I’d be willing to go dragon, patch as a real compromise, to get a lim

VOTE: dragon for now

I’ll be up for about another hour so will check in before I go to sleep to see if I need to change this

———

*Paranoid brain time and I need someone to check me here: does blacks post above suggest inside knowledge of the setup (ie knowledge that we are not in column c)?

[AurorusVox]

^oops I meant to include happy there too, patch/happy as a compromise

[AurorusVox]

I’ve read all of this and I’m announcing intent to hammer in my next (100th) post

Delta cc whoopsie narrative makes more sense as scum, than comet fake cc under no pressure imo

Plus I’ve tr’d comet pretty much all game

Go back and read comets posts since their bath time away and it’s pretty clear if you read it with cop!comet in mind that it all follows what they’ve claimed

[AurorusVox]

VOTE: delta

[AurorusVox]

Re: black, I’d like to revisit this:

Delta and bella are now both essentially claimed PRs

If no one counters this, they are both cleared?

No. If no one counters then DELTA is clear but there are a couple of scenarios in which there is only one pr (not doc)

Paranoid brain time and I need someone to check me here: does blacks post above suggest inside knowledge of the setup (ie knowledge that we are not in column c)?

I want to look at this again because it genuinely feels like it could be something here.

- Black says that no cc clears both delta and Bella.
- But Bella ONLY gets cleared with no cc if we’re in col A (in theory we *could* be in the setup with just a cop)
- But town!black would have no way of knowing if we’re in col A or col C.

So my question is whether black has slipped up by revealing inside knowledge that only scum would have (ie that Bella really is the doc and that we’re in col A)

The thing that makes me stop and wonder is venmar is also saying the same thing and presuming the presence of a roleblocker, so maybe it’s unfair to put that expectation onto black? But when venmar arrived he at least acknowledged the potential for Bella to have killed comet with his question about the (possible) roleblocker, so it feels slightly less informed?

I mean I’ve not played with black before. How across mechanics and setups is she? Because from what I’ve seen here she seems pretty good with the logical / mechanical side, it would surprise me if town!black made this assumption.

And to be clear, I’m not saying I think Bella is lying - the whole cc car crash from delta is like way too far to be scum theatre imo and so I’d say Bella is most likely town (but bear in mind this wasn’t obvious when black made her post above). As town we cannot say bella is *100%* cleared - only scum have the necessary setup inside knowledge for that to be the case, and to me, blacks post seems to be from that informed position.

———

Bella
Dragon
Venmar
Happy
Patch
Black

VOTE: black

[AurorusVox]

But town!black would have no way of knowing if we’re in col A or col C.

I'm not following you here. When Bella claimed Doc it was pretty clear we were in A or C.

Unless she's lying, but why would you even consider that with no cc?

I don't think this is a valid point at all

AV trying to shade the un-cc'd Doc here is wild.

I'm not understanding how she's not cleared here

The thing that makes me stop and wonder is venmar is also saying the same thing and presuming the presence of a roleblocker, so maybe it’s unfair to put that expectation onto black? But when venmar arrived he at least acknowledged the potential for Bella to have killed comet with his question about the (possible) roleblocker, so it feels slightly less informed?

Nobody has CC'd Bella, and Comet flipped cop, so column A is the only possible option right?

I haven't played in years and a newbie in even longer so I had to get clarification on if scum can multitask in these but

unless someone wants to CC Bella then I think it's obvious that the last scum must be a Roleblocker.

Idk why you're shading this tbh with regards to me.

As for Black, again, if she's a townie, and she sees Bella claim doc and Delta claim cop,

with no other CC's we're just in column A?

I don't think scum makes a play here with informed knowledge unless I'm missing something here, if you're saying a !scumBlack would trust the claims because she's a Roleblocker and therefore can confirm it's column A, it's moot imo since townies have no reason to not trust Bella without a CC atm so it's NAI spec imo.

Let me just address this before I read through the patch speculation.

Newbie setup includes a column (col c) where there are no role blockers and no doctors, the only town pr being a cop.

There WILL BE NO CC if Bella is lying because there are no other prs.

The only person who would know if we are in col a or col c would be Bella herself regardless of alignment and/or scum (by virtue of there being or not being a role blocker)

What this means is that it does not matter if there is a cc or not, bella is not mechanically confirmed in the eyes of uninformed town.

Now with delta flipping scum and how day end went down, I’d say it’s highly likely that Bella is town. Let me be clear that I’m not saying I suspect Bella here, she is at the top of my readslist as town.

But at the point black made her post that I quoted, she seemed to be acting as if she knew there was a doc in the setup ie as if she knew that we were in column a, whereas we could very well have been in column c, and my question is whether town!black makes this assumption/mistake.

The reason I brought you into it venmar was because you’ve made the same assumption so at least one townie has done so. The reason I find black more suspicious for it than you is because black made the point before deltas backtrack/flip, and because you at least seemed to question the existence of a roleblocker, which seemed less informed.

Let me grab the setup info quickly and show you what I mean just in case it’s still not clear

[AurorusVox]

Column C, Row 1

Newbie Setup

Newbie Setup

NewD3 (as designed by RadiantCowbells):

	A	B	C
Mafia	Mafia Roleblocker	Mafia Rolecop	Mafia Goon
Row 1	Town Cop and Town Doctor	Town Tracker and Town Friendly Neighbor	Town Cop and Vanilla Townie
Row 2	Town Jailkeeper and Town Tracker	Town Jailkeeper and Town Friendly Neighbor	Town Jailkeeper and Vanilla Townie
Row 3	Town Mason and Town Mason	Town Tracker and Town Doctor	Town Mason and Town Mason

Spoiler: Full Setups

Column A & Row 1:

Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, Town Cop, Town Doctor, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column A & Row 2:

Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, Town Jailkeeper, Town Tracker, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column A & Row 3:

Mafia Roleblocker, Mafia Goon, Town Mason x2, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column B & Row 1:

Mafia Rolecop, Mafia Goon, Town Tracker, Town Friendly Neighbor, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column B & Row 2:

Mafia Rolecop, Mafia Goon, Town Jailkeeper, Town Friendly Neighbor, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column B & Row 3:

Mafia Rolecop, Mafia Goon, Town Tracker, Town Doctor, Vanilla Townie x 5

Column C & Row 1:

Mafia Goon x 2, Town Cop, Vanilla Townie x 6

Column C & Row 2:

Mafia Goon x 2, Town Jailkeeper, Vanilla Townie x 6

Column C & Row 3:

Mafia Goon x 2, Town Mason x2, Vanilla Townie x 5

[AurorusVox]

@venmar nooo that’s not what I’m saying ahhh

I mean yes that could be the play but I really don’t think it’s the case

What I’m saying is

At the point of blacks post, before delta flipped, and before there were any cc’s

Town do not know if the lack of cc’s means Bella is clear because an un-cc’d cop (which delta was at the time) means we’re in column a (cop+doc) or column c (just cop)

Black seemed to know(?) the lack of cc clears Bella

My question is whether this is because black is informed about the setup (because she knows bella is town and that we’re in column a)

And look. Some of the patch stuff seems super weird in retrospect, and I find myself nodding along with blacks case, I’m just having a hard time seeing past the setup stuff so please if like I think maybe dragon is best placed to give me a read on that so I know if I’m being crazy???

Ninjad: ahh guys you’re not getting this

I’m not saying Bella pulled off some crazy scum move

I’m asking if blacks play shows she knew before she should have known (as town) that Bella was being truthful.

Maybe I am just being paranoid / caught on some morsel of logic that isn’t going anywhere. I think we’re in a good enough position that it doesn’t really matter tbh but that’s where my head is stuck currently.

[AurorusVox]

Well exactly. Why didn’t you think she was lying?
Or why didn’t you entertain the

possibility

at the time that she

could

have been lying?

That’s what I’m saying.

There’s a difference between believing Bella and clearing her, and you were suggesting the latter.

[AurorusVox]

I might just be getting hung up on something meaningless tbh. This is kinda what happened when I led town against omi and lost us our perfect victory. In fact it was almost exactly the same to do with setup spec.

Arghhhh

Ninjad; @bella yes I think you’re understanding but maybe got one too many nots in there?

Town!black should not clear Bella by lack of cc because it could be 1pr 1vt
Scum!black knows Bella is truthful and slips up by clearing her due to lack of cc


Ninjad; @black, let me look at that in the timeline. Appreciate you engaging with me on this rather than just dismissing it ha

[AurorusVox]

Black and patch have responded very differently today tbh. And despite patch being more suspect in their response…

Honestly I’d rather go black today just because I think she’s more likely to try / be able to talk her way out of being limmed tomorrow if we go patch and they flip green. She says she’s happy to go first and I dunno if that’s all talk to try to wifom us. Like I can see us going patch today and then suddenly it’s a new target tomorrow.

Even the black/patch/av setup she chose, like, she says “unless dragon or venmar are deepwolfing” like wouldn’t you want to be around to determine that? It seems remarkably flippant (counterpoint: black is just that confident?)

And what about happy? Okay they’re probably newTown but how can black be so certain to not even include them like that?

———

Patch the main thing I really want a better answer on than the answer you gave yesterday

And I’ll need this explaining like I’m dumb so please make it as simple as possible (using jam analogies if needed)

Yesterday you added happy to your limpool
You had delta, venmar and dragon in there beforehand and happy “squeezed delta out”
But at the time dragon was less of a scumread than delta.

To me this looks like an artificial way to remove your partner from the crosshairs. Is there any better explanation you can give for why you did this?

Secondly, it has been rightly pointed out that you have dropped your delta/dragon association to not push dragon today. Why is that?

[AurorusVox]

@happy imo the reason you’re less suspect than black for associative with delta is that you were SO behind delta that it seemed too much to be scum partners? Like when delta first cc’d i even thought that you could be masons lol.

Can you just run me through your mafia experience before here? Am I right in thinking it’s been mainly rapid / 5 minute day games? I’m just trying to reconcile that different experience with how likely your d1 play is for a delta partner.

———

Patch, let’s keep it simple: if dragon was here would you want to lim him?

———

Just to manage activity expectation if we’re looking to end the day early - I’m out on a baby free date day tomorrow and out on an all day birthday bender on Saturday so I won’t be posting much on those days (alternatively: I will post a lot, drunk)

[AurorusVox]

I still believe delta is town and I will stand with that read until my death.

Stuff like this is what I mean black

[AurorusVox]

Okay thanks

Who do you think you’ve tunnelled on in this game?
How often do people bus their partners in the games you play?

[AurorusVox]

Or do you think someone is tunnelling on you?

[AurorusVox]

Hi guys, I’m rather hungover lol

I’ve read the thread quickly and here are some thoughts

- patch self voting while having three people in their suspect pool (black, happy, dragon) doesn’t make sense as town - if you have 3x suspects you need the 3x lims to get them all, which means not self voting. And then this changes later to just black, venmar - where did happy go? Where was venmar originally? Patch explains where dragon goes but it’s wild to me that they would lim dragon if he was here…until he is here…

- black is playing this day so well from a self preservation standpoint, but I don’t understand why patch hasn’t voted black yet. I’m struggling to distinguish if this!patch is defeated scum or actually tired town like they claim. Equally, while I do get a genuine sense of frustration from black with each new patch post she responds to; again, I have to ask is that frustrated town because a case they’re presenting isn’t gaining traction, or frustrated scum that their saving grace mislim isn’t picking up the speed they want?

- happy is posting a lot without actually committing to any votes or wagons. I have no idea where their head is at in terms of who they want limmed today. It feels like this could be scum not wanting to be on a mislim. However I’m not really interested in following this further right now as I think we need to resolve black/patch today or we’re getting nowhere tomorrow.

- Bella has called herself confTown (she isn’t - just 99% likely lol) and then not really contributed anything to the ongoing discussion between black/patch, despite venmars reasonable request to lead the day. However I do kinda feel like Bella, venmar, even myself to an extent, have checked out a little because we’re just waiting to go through the motions to get the day over.

But for that to happen we need to actually shift gears and start voting. Whether that’s black or patch is kinda irrelevant if we commit to the other tomorrow, but even with patch self voting we haven’t seen anyone even hit e-1 yet so I’m not super confident with the players we have left that will even happen…this is partly why I’d rather go black today; patch + 2 would be enough to lim them tomorrow, and if patch doesn’t self vote then it’s easier to convince the third person to join because patch has clearly shown intent to self vote today. Whereas black has never self voted despite saying she’s happy to be the lim today, and I feel like she’s going to be better at “wriggling out” of the lim tomorrow, like she says she’s worried patch will do.

I think it’s time for everyone to use their votes, otherwise we’re just continuing to circle the drain of this day.

———

PS I missed the uni chat

I also did English degree and a masters and a pgce and have taught high school English now for 10 years

[AurorusVox]

Been prodded, am drunk

Didn’t realise it was 36 not 48 hours for proddos or I’d have gone vla
As I said I’m out for a birthday weekend

Bella says lim black, she’s 99% confTown so let’s fucken lim black

I don’t like patch seemingly backing out on the black scumread tho so maybe we just lim them instead idk

Please can this day just end

Thanks

[AurorusVox]

Patch pls vote black

If you don’t scumread black then why are you stil self voting on thunder dome
Tho?

[AurorusVox]

Like

Patch

My g

Are you playin me?

Pls don’t fuck with my heart

[AurorusVox]

I’d do patch if needed but would also prefer black

And what is the case on me? That I believed my townread's counterclaim? There aren't any real contradictions or inconsistencies in my play and if you have any questions I'll be more than happy to answer them

Things like this make me doubt black will honour the thunder dome, then she’ll push me tomorrow and make it to 3p probably with happy who doesn’t sr them and then that’s gg right there.

Black says she’s happy to go today or tomorrow but her play does not back that up at all (because she knows if she goes down she’s lost?)
Whereas patch genuinely feels like they dgaf if they go down today (because they still know they can win after they’re limmed?)

I dunno. Maybe I’m overthinking it. Patch inconsistency is on another level so it could just straight up be them, but we also have tomorrow to sort out patch if needed (whereas I have less faith that will be possible with black if patch flips green today)

[AurorusVox]

@dragon - I’m sure I explained it further at the time? It’s also not really relevant anymore cos it was in the case of delta flipping green

But just in case

You seemed to have a reason to scumread delta, decided it wasn’t valid (too scummy to be scum), then when venmar questioned it and said it could still be scummy, you quickly agreed and re-voted. In my mind this could have been a way for you to not catch as much heat if a town!delta mislim went through (because you could go “damn I knew it was too scummy to be scum, that teaches me for listening to other people!”)

Obviously it doesn’t make sense in a scum!delta world so it’s irrelevant now ha.

———

@happy why were you asking about doctor?

I’m interested to see what patch does today.

[AurorusVox]

There was a time when dragon said they read delta as too scummy to be scum but it didn’t last long, venmar pushed dragon on it and that led to dragon revoting delta, but dragon also said he came to the conclusion of delta scum independently. I think that’s a fair summary, dragon?

@happy what’s your theory about the n1 kill then?

[AurorusVox]

There was a time when dragon said they read delta as too scummy to be scum but it didn’t last long, venmar pushed dragon on it and that led to dragon revoting delta, but dragon also said he came to the conclusion of delta scum independently. I think that’s a fair summary, dragon?

@happy what’s your theory about the n1 kill then?

Assuming doc has brain they would have protected the cop there, so I think rber stopped the doc

I mean
That’s like 99.9% what’s going to have happened

I just wondered why you thought this was the thing to start asking about at the beginning of the day?

I thought maybe there was a theory about comet vs bella nk/rb iterations but seems like…again…you’re kinda posting stuff just to post?

[AurorusVox]

I feel like I’m paranoid, but everyone is doing stuff that’s pinging me townie and scummy at the moment and I’m not 100% ruling anyone out at this point. Here’s where I’m at based on stuff TODAY:

Patch:
The self vote I’m still trying to figure out if it’s AI or not. Would scum be so kamikaze at this point? At the same time, if patch hadn’t self voted I’d have probably voted them straight away so it’s like potentially a good scum strat. I dunno, I’m not rushing the lim through either way. They’ve not really done anything scummy as of today, as venmar said, the case is based on previous day actions.

+town: self vote (but is it though?)
+scum: previous day inconsistencies (but is it though?)

@patch: are you planning on using your vote normally today or are you committed to self-voting?

———

Happy:
I didn’t like the n1 nk talk, it seemed to be posting for the sake of it without actually trying to solve, but the patch read kinda aligns with my mixed up feelings. The vox/venmar thing is dodgy af though, if one of us is town then all happy (or scum!patch) does in that scenario is kill one of us and set up the lim on the other.

+town: patch vibe (weak)
+scum: n1 nk talk, chained lims

@happy: is dragon your lim of choice today because they’re scummiest or because of your POE/logic?

———

Dragon:
Claiming to have read “scummy af” people as town just feels a bit informed - like “look at me not being on the mislim wagon.” I’m also not liking dragon calling out patch for their explanation of their tr on me when dragons own explanation for venmar tr is practically the same (also what’s with the vouching for venmar line??); the happy push aligns with some of my concerns, but beyond that dragons towniness comes from previous days, I haven’t really liked their posts today so far.

+town: happy push, previous days
+scum: seems informed; tr hypocrisies

@dragon how is patch twtbaw different from venmar reading happy as vi and why did you question one and not the other?

———

Venmar:
My strongest townread probably before today but there’s something off with venmars latest posts and I think it’s bc to me they seem opportunistic. Here’s my paranoid take on it: after happy says it’s more likely venmar over me, keeping me and happy alive into endgame would no longer be as viable a slam dunk for scum!venmar (remember this was venmars proposed likely endgame if black and patch were town). But happy also puts venmar on the spot about if I’m NK’d then lim venmar, so he can’t NK me either. So what does that leave venmars choice as? I think venmars route to victory is now a vox/dragon/venmar 3p so he’s seeding the vox sr vs the dragon tr early doors with that in mind.

+town: I’m being paranoid and this is all a bit far fetched and probably wildly inaccurate
+scum: at this stage sometimes paranoia is the right answer

@venmar: what do you make of happys idea of chaining lims to nks?

[AurorusVox]

Sorry twins went temporarily crazy

At the moment I feel like venmar is still probably town and it’s just me getting in my own head about it

Dragon had a strong d1, but his d2 + d3 taken together so far have not been anywhere near as strong. Dragons good for answering Qs though so should be able to get a handle on him if he doesn’t disappear again (when does your vla start?)

Happy is someone I’m growing increasingly suspicious of and is probably where I’d be most likely to vote at this point if not patch.

Regarding patch it’s like so up in the air for me. Patch seems townie for the self vote but what choice would scum!patch have realistically?

I think if I get a chance I’d like to revisit

(1) my temporary delta/dragon team suspicion from d1 to see if it could be valid and why I binned it off [sorts dragon]

(2) blacks case on patch from d2 to read it from confTown now rather than scum trying to avoid their own lim

(3) happys early game iso to see if this kinda posting to post vibe I’ve been getting today has been going on from the start

I don’t really have anything that sticks out to me to look at for venmar lol

[AurorusVox]

Venmar, yeah I guess we’re in similar places re paranoia points

My question was more in terms of, happys linking of lims to nks seems scummy to me, and it doesn’t track with VI town imo, and I wanted your take on it.

[AurorusVox]

Not had a chance to do anything much with this game today, I see there’s been some vote movement so I’ll try to get a better understanding of things tomorrow but right now I’m looking at choosing between patch and happy.

[AurorusVox]

Patch kept changing every few posts who they had in their lim pool, that’s the major thing that pings me with them. The thing I’m trying to reconcile is whether they’re likely to do that as scum. Part of me thinks they’re likely to be more careful. And I’m also like, this self vote just seems very risky as scum if we call their bluff, but then wifom makes me reconsider this stance so I’m second guessing everything.

Tbh though happy I’m probably leaning more toward voting you anyway :\

[AurorusVox]

Scum!happy wins this at vox-venmar-happy 3p
Scum!patch only real chance of winning is happy-dragon-patch 3p

I think given the above and on the balance of my reads today, the safest thing to do is to prioritise happy

VOTE: happy

Happys iso is a little odd, like they were more reads-focused earlier on (actually giving reads and reasons) but that completely dropped off with the delta lim. The shift in tactic seems significant.

Also there are creeping issues like the “push and question people” demand but not actually questioning anyone. I think there was something about dishonesty regarding how much iso they’d done when they accused black of having the least reads? It doesn’t make for a great picture when you read it back tbh.

[AurorusVox]

I think happy pushing this townread on delta so hard is kinda sus, not a slam dunk because there’s the second guessing of “why would they be so blatant?” But what gets me when I look back on it like this is the way the delta and patch reads diverge to a point where happy is happy (ba-dum) to start a cw on patch to save delta.

That’s why I asked about their history with bussing, to which they said that on the site they normally play, scum don’t really bus unless it’s a large game with more scum players.

And I think the magnitude of the tr is kinda baffling to come from town, tbh; I actually had vague ideas about happy and delta being masons when delta first counter-claimed because happy was so strong in the tr.

I however like patch and delta asking me questions

No, I like the Delta slot. Immediately finds questions to ask me after I sub in (or at least when I announce my existence), provides criticism, and puts me in sr list when I don't contribute. Simple yet effective.

I tr delta for actuallt trying to improve gamestate.

Guess its time for me to tell you about my town/scum lists.
Town: Delta, AV, Bella

two players got delta on plur
I remeber one is patch
I strongly believe delta is town
so yeah… here we go, cw go brrr
VOTE: patch

[…]

Re:Comet: yes I like people who actually push me for reasons, not for te sake of it, like delta

Don't like the Delta wagon, but the other wagon with Bella won't be any better, both being my townreads
Having Delta subbed out doesn't sound good to me, gievn that there's a wagon on them and the sub might take more time than me to read up and still get stuff wrong (sorry again)

VOTE: patch

This has been my top SR for most of D1

THATS THE SPIRIT
lets go start a cw to save delta

THATS THE SPIRIT
lets go start a cw to save delta

This is pinging at me. You really feel strongly enough about Delta on day 1 that you want to push a counterwagon with the express purpose of getting a wagon off him?

yes
gut reads tell me that

does having the most votes for the longest attribute towards the elimination? because if so delta gets voted and I dont want that
willing to switch plur to dragon

I still believe delta is town and I will stand with that read until my death.

[AurorusVox]

(Sorry didn’t have the time to quote posts until now, luckily no one posted in between anyway lol)

[AurorusVox]

@venmar that’s because it’s partly tactical, I guess. I know we lose to scum!happy in a 3p endgame with you, me and happy

I don’t disagree with the patch lim in principle but I’m wary of the above scenario, which is why I think its a better idea to go happy first. Obviously that only really works fmpov but /shrug that’s where I’m at.

That said, I will do patch today to ensure a lim. I’ll be around to move my vote if needed.

[AurorusVox]

@patch why do you think it’s venmar?

[AurorusVox]

@happy you said you want to see a lim, even if it’s you. Would you vote any one of us (including yourself) to see that lim occur? Or are you still wanting to pick 1 between {dragon/venmar}?

Which brings me to: you’ve said a lot about wanting to move the game on, use our votes etc, but you’ve left your vote on dragon ineffectively all day I feel. If you think it’s potentially venmar why haven’t you joined patch in voting him?

As for buddying someone “universally scumread,” I don’t think delta was sr so strongly throughout the day when you made some of those posts. I’d also say, as soon as you turn around and say “why would I do this as scum?” then it immediately weakens the defence because THAT’S why you’d do it. The other thing I saw in your iso was you asking why people weren’t pushing you for your delta associative, almost like you were waiting to make this defence?

Obviously I could be wrong and maybe you just genuinely saw him as super townie but I struggle to see what he was doing that gave you SUCH a strong conviction.

[AurorusVox]

You feel that way? I’ve been arguing with myself all day today!

[AurorusVox]

Slow death

If you vote me I think everyone will have 1 vote each ha. Most people are in at least one persons top 2 scumreads which makes this difficult, I think tbh the dragonslot is probably the most widely townread (only happy has dragon as lim candidate for today)

Scum limmed d1
Both prs were outed d1 and subsequently been NK’d

Patch is willing to self vote after a 1v1 with black yesterday

[AurorusVox]

Patch and happy think it’s venmar as of this day

[AurorusVox]

I had a paranoia moment but got over it after a post or two

[AurorusVox]

I don’t think dragon ever expressed a feeling for it being venmar

[AurorusVox]

@venmar the reason I pivoted to happy is because we have the spare day to sort things, and I am inclined to do so for the exact reason of you starting to lean toward me and happy being able to exploit that

Happy is sus of venmar > vox so all I’d have needed to do as scum is go along with the already setup patch lim today, nk dragonslot, and ride happy voting venmar to victory

But I *don’t* like that endgame, because if happy is scum, he just waits for you to vote me and wins

It’s nothing to do with your suspicions. Scum!vox wins that endgame regardless of your suspicions. Town!vox loses it and that’s why I shifted it today.

[AurorusVox]

I dunno maybe I’m just in my head too much and convincing myself happy is scummier than patch.

Like, literally no one has responded to my points about happys empty posting or saying they want to move the game on while parking a useless vote on dragoneater, maybe it’s just not a good case.

I’m not going to be around for the rest of today now so hopefully this is gg

VOTE: patch

[AurorusVox]

I’m kinda tired of this day tbh, this sorts stuff takes a mental toll on me. I’ll be back on tomorrow morning if we’ve not hammered anything yet so if you usher any Qs line em up~

[AurorusVox]

I'm hindsight, knowing AV's alignment, this defense here is slimy. You twisted what I said and manipulated the situation to make yourself seem like some kind of victim. I don't vibe with this stuff at all. Sure, it's perfectly within the rules and boundaries, but personally I think this type of defense is just AWFUL

Trust me, I’ll be happier than anyone else when I’m finally caught up and can just read current stuff lol.

I feel like you could just read those few missing pages instead of reading what people are posting now. Like you read the whole Delta case on Dragon instead of reading pg 12. This kinda goes into what I was saying earlier about how I wouldn't be able to play this way. I can't try to solve a puzzle when I'm missing key pieces. The fact that you are trying to do this makes me think you're not

actually

trying to do real solving here, instead you just want to look like you're doing stuff. People pointed out you even discredited the Bella slip before even reading it too

I'm getting bad vibes with the way you're approaching the game and I'm comfortable moving my vote here for now

VOTE: AV

I mean, I’m reading a post or two at a time from recent pages whilst looking after my twins, I’ve been very clear that I’m keeping up to date with recent posts (namely so that I don’t have to add on a bunch more pages in catch up) and when I have a longer time period then I’ll dedicate it to catching up on the remaining pages I’m missing

Voting me because I chose to read 2-3 posts on a recent page rather than going back to read a whole page is wild

Like seriously wtf that’s pissed me right off
How dare you tell me how to spend my time when I’m juggling this and looking after my kids

Like get the fuck outta here

You’ve been making shitty takes on my post since I started catching up, most of the time misreading or missing what I’ve actually said. Vote me for any of those shitty takes, I don’t really care, but don’t you dare tell me I should have read 4 pages of content while I’m sat with my kids

That’s fucked me right off
Bye

Incorrect. My reaction was genuine and nothing to do with my alignment. You’ll owe a big apology when you read the Mafia PT and see I made this exact point at the time.

I was genuinely so annoyed by this that I was shaking in real life for hours afterwards to the point I almost requested replacement. But I’ve never been replaced before and for some reason I thought that was important to try to maintain that integrity.

You need to be more sensitive to other people’s life situations. Calling me slimy and awful is incredibly offensive and just shows you haven’t learnt anything from it.

Anyway

Gg town

Debated going full galaxy brain mode and keep Bella alive but didn’t think anyone would go for it. Maybe should have just done it for the lols.

Patch pocketed me as town lol.

@std if you mean the slip; I disagree because happy might have voted you instead without that. If you mean me being replaced; I disagree because I would have NK’d you and hoped for happy voting venmar. We’ll never know /shrug

Serious Talk. This game experience has not been a positive one for me tbh. There were enjoyable parts but overall there were times it has been damaging to my mental well-being irl so it’ll be the last game I play on here (for a while at least until I forget how shitty I felt at times). I suppose that may have been why I stepped away from the site in the first place years ago.

Nice playing with some old faces from the last few newbie games, hope you all continue to have fun on here and maybe in another 7 years I’ll be back and catch up with you all again lol.

All the best,
AV

[AurorusVox]

Uncalled for

[AurorusVox]

My feelings are not invalidated by your insensitivity.

[AurorusVox]

No