Newbie 1170: DarthYoshi's Medieval Mafia! (Fin--Who won?!)

[LyingBrian]

/confirm

vote: DarthYoshi

[LyingBrian]

unvote

if i'm reading the rules correctly, Day One should have started when duckhunter4242 confirmed, so:

vote: sorgster

his title says he's Mafia, so who am i to disagree?

[LyingBrian]

vote: DaLetterEl

DaLetterEl, i am curious about one thing. what is your favorite color? i would like to know so i can use it make a soft claim that you are mafia. my time online for pleasure is somewhat limited, so forgive me, but i'm not going to complete your little quiz. the only important thing that it will reveal is that i am town. Surprising, huh?

FOS: duckhunter4242

for post #38. early jump on a bandwagon w/o any real input. i personally don't see Fakinha's response as that defensive, just calling out a flawed system for finding mafia.

[LyingBrian]

==lyingbrian - I already answered that my favorite color is red, and already explained why my answering said question is stupid in my response to shinki; I have already set the terms of said test, so my answering it makes little sense, especially when it may foster people trying to answer the question in a way that seems to copy my answer. However, if you and or others give me a good reason to consider saying why red is my favorite color, I will do so, but I simply don't see the point. As my chemistry teacher once said to me after i asked him how hard his test would be, 'It is pretty easy. after all, I got an A on it.'

honestly, and please don't take this personally, i think anybody answering the question is quite silly as it doesn't really give us any insight into whether or not they are scum. i'm also heavily against 1 player having a 'test' of sorts to separate scum from townies (especially this early in the game). it makes it seem like you have information not readily available to anyone else, and that makes you seem scummy, thus why my vote is on you.

I also find it curious that you think that I am finding scum based on what color someone chooses. I have already pointed out that such a system of logic is stupid, so I think that we are two ships passing in the night here. That is quite clearly not the purpose of the color test. 'Orange = scum,' or 'Blue = town' would be a pretty terrible test. I am willing to excuse your current vote as merely glossing over this thread due to being busy, but I fail to see how asking questions like that is necessarily deserving of a vote.

i don't really think you're finding scum based on someone's favorite color, i agree the logic is stupid. again, the whole logic of a made-up test only 1 person has the answer key to is quite stupid, imho.

Luckily, the only directly functional question that I asked was the question about time zones and first language, both of which are answered in your location to a large extent, since sometimes arguments can be over just a misunderstanding in what someone is saying, and it's also useful to know around when most people here are posting, so that people with no life like me know when to possibly come in and check the thread and expect to see a certain person post. Most of the others were there just to get to know people, since IMO it's more fun to play against people that you have some sort of knowledge of, instead of them being just some robots on the internet who occasionally post things to analyze and such. Besides, when else this game are we ever going to get to know who we are playing against? I respect and understand being busy, though, but it's no excuse to hide from the power that is the color test. I still would like to know: what your favorite color is and why it is your favorite color?

i still refuse to answer your question on the principle that it does not reveal anything about my alliance; i live in Jacksonville, FL (EST), and i mostly do graphic design stuff.

Also, you seem a bit defensive of fakinha. What in particular of fakinha's post do you agree with in terms to my color test?

ps the soft-claim thing you allude to, if i am interpreting that correctly, seems to be taking a jab at my questions after the color test. the little 'barney is purple and killed my innocence' thing is just me having fun, if that wasn't painfully obvious. it's just what i've always done with the color test; call it tradition.

these 2 questions are intertwined. you are interpreting my sarcasm correctly, you are using the color people choose as their 'favorite' to make a silly claim about why mafia would choose that color as their favorite. it's similar to my saying, "only mafia ask questions about people's favorite color". i agree w/ Fakinha that you are manipulating silly information to your whim rather than analyzing it to a logical conclusion.

finally, as an ic, what information that isn't present in a beginner guide would you find particularly useful to us?

this may be your biggest contribution to the game. sequence of votes tells you more than you might think, as does a player's post count.

[LyingBrian]

a wall of text defending his color test

"As an IC, you have information not readily available to anyone else, and that makes you seem scummy" would seem to logically follow from the above insinuation of my having some knowledge which other people don't have.

information != experience

you make the mistake of thinking that since i have more experience i have more information than you. this is simply untrue. experience lets me use the provided information (rules of Mafia, posts made by other players, etc) in a more productive way, but it does not grant me MORE information

one could argue that your position of experience places you in a similar position of having "tests" which only you really know the answers to. You are pretty clearly "the expert" in terms of knowing what constitutes something scummy due to being here longer than the rest of us, which places you in a position of power where you can ask questions which you have found to be very good at weeding out scum.

again, you make a logical error. i do not have any secret "tests" for finding Mafia. my experience in weeding out Mafia comes from how people play the game, how they react to situations, how & when they jump on a vote bandwagon, etc. if you're looking for "tests", try this link: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... ells&go=Go

While you certainly have not done this yet -- in fact, all you have really done so far, and correct me if i'm wrong, is call what I'm doing stupid, agree with fakinha that what i am doing is stupid,

fos duck for a quickvote

, further explain why what i am doing is stupid, and then give one quick piece of advice without really explaining it -- the fact remains that this naturally would place you in a position to have tests and questions which you find particularly good at weeding out scum. While the situations are clearly different in some capacity, I think the comparison is valid in some respects.

you misunderstood my FOS. my FOS was not b/c of how quickly duck voted, but rather how quickly he jumped on a bandwagon w/o giving any additional information about their vote, but rather copying the reason the first vote gave.

However, if you buy the validity of the comparison, just as you being "experienced" and using said experience should not necessarily constitute being scummy -- if your experience helps bring the town a victory and helps other town members to become better, then you should use that experience -- I fail to see why you think my asking these questions is necessarily scummy. While you can still argue that the "color test" is stupid (and it probably is, but I am not lying when I say that it has only failed me once), and that doing "stupid stuff" is a waste of time and/or not "pro-town," I find the insinuation of my using something which I personally know to look for as being

necessarily

scummy seems to be flawed logic on your behalf.

my problem with your color test is the nature of the question. if the question was directly game related, and you were using peoples reactions to THAT question to try to get a town/mafia read from them, i would have no problems whatsoever. but using a question which is NOT game-related as a means of reading a person's alliance in the game is faulty logic and will provide a bad read. you are reading a person's personality with your color question, NOT their alliance.

there is literally 0 harm in answering the damn question. If you honestly think that our day 1 lynch will be ultimately decided by some color test on the first two pages of the thread -- which seem to generally be filled with RVs and some questionnaires and barely starting into actual questions -- you are either extremely foolish, or just have an extremely negative expectation of newer players in general or of me personally from the bit you have seen of me. It got discussion started, a quickvote in the first page of the thread, some people being reluctant to reveal something so innocent as a favorite color and the reasons why it is their favorite, and allowed me to mention barney the dinosaur and mafias in the same sentence. That's a pretty good start to me. I'm inclined to believe that you just simply think that what I am doing is "stupid," and like to categorize "stupid" as "not pro-town." I can tell you first hand that I have gotten the most pro-town reads I have ever had from really stupid people.

i'm very curious about something. how many games have you played & used your color questionnaire? if you think my calling your questionnaire "stupid" equals "not pro-town", then again you misinterpret me. it was a semi-decent way to kick off the game, but to make statements like "blue is the color of someone's face when the mafia is choking them" doesn't really help get the ball rolling, except to talk about whether or not the "color test" is a good way to start RVs, which is what we've done so far.

Oh, and please, ask some questions which reveal things about my, or anyone else's alliance. I already answered the question "U MAF?" Oh, maybe you could ask me "U TOWN?"! Maybe I don't understand what you mean by "does not reveal anything about my alliance," but that response feels like a cop-out that could be used to virtually any question.

And thank you for at least somewhat answering my questions from before; graphic design sounds pretty cool! If only I were at all artistic...

my point was that EVERYONE is going to answer the question "Are you pro-town?" as "yes". it is pointless to ask.

how am i manipulating information, when my only vote so far has been an rv in my first post? you seem to be the one trying to make something out of nothing. i am skeptical to call you mafia as a result of it, but it's certainly not pro-town to make "so much to do about nothing." Of course, you could argue the same about this "test," but I think it's pretty clear that I am not taking people's immediate responses as definitive reasons to vote for someone.

above response should answer this

First, how do you feel players should use their votes? I have always been curious as to when putting a vote on someone to try to pressure scum into mistakes vs. keeping your vote as something which can be seen to scum as legitimately threatening, since while the vote is the town's biggest weapon, if a townie just keeps quickly flopping their vote from one person to another, that would seem counter-productive (at least to me). What's the balance that we should be aiming to hit? Or does that just come with time and experience?

Second, while vote sequence and post-count, as you say, matter, how do they actually matter? Or is this just like the color test where you're going to keep the secret to yourself

ah, finally, some strategy. how one uses their vote is completely up to them, so it would not be wise for me to say how a player SHOULD use their vote. personally, i use my to pressure people. my vote was initially on you b/c i felt your "color test" was counter-productive, and i wanted to pressure you into becoming defensive (which seems to have backfired). concerning HOW vote sequence & post-count matter, it's not something that there is a set matrix for. i will say the next to last vote on someone who is lynched always seems to be under scrutiny, unless the last vote was a super quick change of vote, then it becomes suspicious, unless we're under deadline, unless that person has been cleared by a cop, etc. as you can see there are many factors to how vote sequence matters, and i don't think i could adequately cover every scenario (or even most scenarios), so i'm not going to try. when i see something suspicious, i will point it out, and provide reasoning for my suspicion. it will then be up to everyone else to determine if my reasoning is sound. post count is more of a meta-game strategy, and i doubt i'll be using that in this game. for instance, based off pure speculation, i would say that you are mafia DaLetterEl, just b/c of the amount & frequency that you post (mafia like to talk a lot, but again this could be personality). i don't actually think this is the case, though, as i have no base to compare your current post count to other games.

But I must that you look a little too friendly townie, Letter. Trying too hard, maybe?

another wall of text defending himself from a harmless question

yeah, this was pretty much unnecessary, DLL. it was a simple question meant to encourage you to back off a little, and how do you respond? by taking 5 paragraphs to defend yourself. this is scummy behavior, regardless of whether or not you are actually Mafia. trust me, it took me a few games to understand that you CAN be lynched for acting scummy even though you are completely pro-town.

I feel like DLE is acting pretty scummie, he has the need to defend every little point of his strategy and every little thing that someone says regarding him with a super large paragraph that could have been summed up in a fourth of the words.

FOS Daletterel

while not a vote, this is the 2nd time duckhunter has followed someone else's lead w/o really adding anything to the conversation. it smells scummy.

@duckhunter4242, why do you think that DLL's "need" to defend himself is scummy? feel free to take at least 3 sentences to expound your thought rather than a one sentence blurb.

unvote
vote: duckhunter4242

[LyingBrian]

hello all, sorry i wasn't able to notify you of my absence, but work got crazy busy the past few days. i should be on either later today, or tomorrow at the latest to do a full review of the game so far, and make a contributing post. thanks for your patience.

[LyingBrian]

@duckhunter4242, why do you think that DLL's "need" to defend himself is scummy? feel free to take at least 3 sentences to expound your thought rather than a one sentence blurb.

My point was the fact that he honestly didn't "need" to defend himself because all people were commenting on were the fact that most of his questions had nothing to do with the game. But he did defend himself even though all he "needed" to say was that he wanted to find out more about people IRL. Also when anyone attacks DLL he takes a lot of words to make a point. Maybe he just has a lot of time to devote to this game, but I know personally I wouldn't type an essay for a post unless I felt extremely threatened.

+1

you failed to give any type of response on HOW this makes him look scummy

There is just more to me shipping then me thinking people are town. I legitametly had those ideas before they were posted. But my options once they have been posted are sheep or changing my ideas to not look like a sheeper. I'd rather sheep

+2

ideas that a person may be scummy MAY have been legitimately yours before they were posted, but we are interested in your reasoning. so far it seems shallow and random at best.

starting to realize that posting a lot of stuff is counter-productive if no one wants to read what you have to say. I'll try cutting it down a bit. Anything that has any relevance to a read, though, will still be longer than most of the posters here post.

responding to some of the parts i found relevant in lyingbrian's post

if you think my calling your questionnaire "stupid" equals "not pro-town", then again you misinterpret me. it was a semi-decent way to kick off the game, but to make statements like "blue is the color of someone's face when the mafia is choking them" doesn't really help get the ball rolling, except to talk about whether or not the "color test" is a good way to start RVs, which is what we've done so far.

I really don't see why you continue to harp on the "x color is bad for y reason which has to do with mafia" as being somehow important. I have already said that it was just me trying to poke some fun. Why does this still concern you?

ok, i'm going to begin by saying that this is the last post i'm going to make about this "color test", and further responses will be ignored as this discussion is useless at this point. my biggest problem is that the color test feels like a set-up. i hate feeling like i'm being set-up, therefore i'm not going to answer the question.

I have already pointed out that it is literally just two simple questions. Your refusal to answer them, not the question itself, has caused this thread in a decent part (see - content of nearly all of shinki's posts, majority of content in my posts, and a good bit of your own as well are the ones that come to mind) to become much more side-tracked than it should have been. Was that your intention? Because as of now, you have starkly failed the color test, and I feel as though you have attempted to use the confusion to your advantage. Why do you continue to refuse to answer the question? It is two simple questions (plus me getting to make a joke about how that color relates to being mafia). It being extraneous, while I do agree is for the most part not as valid as a final reason to vote for someone, should have been a good place to get discussion going. Instead -- while I do take some of the blame for this, and to an extent continue to do so just by posting a response to your complaining about it -- you harp on the question itself.

as noted above it felt like a set-up, and it still does, but i'm also refusing to answer based on principle now. in another note, how did i fail a test i never took? (that's hypothetical)

While it seems as though you have backtracked a bit in your tone from your last post to this one to a middle ground which I find more reasonable, I find the backtracking to feel fake. While I can certainly see how it could be used to put some pressure on someone, it feels like a dishonest way to do so, and the backing off feels like a way to feel more pro-town to your average townie for simply "being reasonable." I don't mean to suggest that it is the reasonability that I find scummy; not at all. I find that the seeming changing of your position on what I've been doing and saying to feel dishonest.

i haven't really backtracked from my position, i'm just not pressing it as much b/c we simply disagree on how to start D1, so rather than argue about the merits of the test any further, i decided to concede the point and move on.

based off pure speculation, i would say that you are mafia DaLetterEl, just b/c of the amount & frequency that you post (mafia like to talk a lot, but again this could be personality). i don't actually think this is the case, though, as i have no base to compare your current post count to other games.

On other sites, I was used to posting twice a day, and usually would have at least one post of substantial length when I either felt extremely bored or when I really had something to say. However, I think that most of the people I was playing against kind of knew that essentially whenever I posted, that I would say something rather substantial. Still, I've probably posted too much, in that multiple people are complaining about simply not wanting to read my posts thus far, which sucks, because I want people to read what I have to think and say.

i'm not sure yet if this is true in your case or not, but lots of content != substantial. you can say a lot without putting a lot of substance in it, and that's what makes you look scummy. don't misunderstand me, i'm not saying i think you are scummy, i'm saying you can look scummy. concerning wanting people to read your posts, i understand. i was in your position when i first started playing, going into extraneous details about such and such. i've learned to condense my posts and my points, and expound them at the right time (which is NOT every time).

Thanks for the welcome duckhunter

It seems that my vote is on Fakinha and I don't find her particularly scummy at the moment, so

UNVOTE FAKINHA

(I hope I did that right)

I want to get everyone to talk more so:

LyingBrian: Why were you so cynical regarding DLE's questions? It seems that most of the current discussion has developed from them. Have you got a better way of generating discussion?

if you read my responses to the "color test" i think you'll find my cynicism is more geared to how DLE handled the answers than the actual question itself. also, i'm very cynical of the mindset that if one decides not to participate in his quiz which is not relative to the actual game, he finds that response suspicious. the reason i'm cynical is b/c that mindset leads to false suspicion and opens the door for the mafia to use that to their advantage. concerning your point about the current discussion, that actually argues my point in that we have spent too much time discussing how D1 should open rather than focusing on the game that is actually at hand.

concerning your second question, i personally prefer letting D1 open up more randomly than having a mechanism to try to start discussion. there are pros and cons to both strategies so to say it is "better" is just personal preference. i think it's better b/c it's more natural rather than forced which can be used to the mafias advantage.

@DLE I honestly am in a pickle right now, because I could have kept my vote on Fakinha from sheeping but I dont think he is scummy and get harped on for not changing my vote from not having any backup. But my other option is to change my vote to someone else you I think could be scum then I get harped on for changing my answer just because someone said I should. Ever since I sheeped any options I take are gonna look bad on my part. In response to your question I don't have any other FOS because I don't have a read on anyone else so far, as we are still very early in the game and I am not the best at reading people.

i definitely find this post defensive, but i think here duckhunter is taking things a little personally, and not necessarily acting scummy. duckhunter, let me help you out. sheeping (regardless of the reason) is scummy. you need to be original in your posts, and follow your logic and analysis, not what someone else tells you to do.

Eww scum cookies
@Everyone- I may not have played as the most towniest person but I have been active and have been trying to figure out people, at least I am not sitting at the wayside and have like 2 posts.

+3

again, defensive, but this time it feels like duckhunter is trying to shift the blame onto someone else w/o calling them out specifically. duckhunter is trying to hide behind another player.

@Painkiller please post something, sitting there and doing nothing has gotten a lot of suspicion. You have less posts then one of the people who got replaced.

I don't think duckhunter sounded scummy when he said that about DLE...Actually, I agree. Wall texts are counter-productive, I think it distracts and makes people get tired of discussing...Scummy IMO.

I agree that painkiller's quietness is scummy but in this post he tries to move the bandwagon off of me. Which doesn't make sense because if he was scum he would know I was town as the scum know who each other are according to post 0-1 by Yoshi. So I don't think that Painkiller is scum, maybe he has just had a busy week.

+4

these 2 posts make an odd combination, especially considering how close together they are. the first post feels like a prod for Painkiller to post more with a hint of calling him scummy, yet 2 posts later he flops and says that Painkiller ISN'T scummy. also re-establishing himself as pro-town feels weird here, especially in conjunction with using a public post by the moderator as "proof" of his towniness.

Pankiller: What do you think of duckhunter's behaviour? You said you agreed with him about DLE's long posts, but what else do you think?

Well, indeed that vote in Fakinha was unecessary and too rushed. I also think that LyingBrian and Duck are a bit scummy for going against DLE since the begining of the game, I mean, it's just a test color. They are making too much of fuss over it and trying to cut someone who is trying to moviment the town.

Also, Why do you think wall-texts are scummy?

And it's not like I find ALL wall-text scummy. But like Hunter said 4 paragraphs to explain why he is being friendly is too much. My point is, if you can make something short and clear, then the best is to do it.

The more people say, the more information we gain, and people don't have to read long posts if they don't want to, so I don't understand how it can make people tired of discussing.

Not exacly. Sometimes, people speak too much but don't say anything at all. Long posts can have much useless information that deceive us from important things. Or else useless information that make us think that the person is saying something productive or something but in reality is not doing so.

And which question, may I ask, was this? The questions I didn't answer were (paraphrased) "U MAF???", "Fave colour", "Lynch based purely off username", "Play any sports" and "Anything else interesting?". Which of these is the most relevant, except for me?

Since the game is about finding and lynching scums, the most relevant question would be 'U MAF???'

@Duck I wasn't trying to bandwagon off of you at all. We just agreed on a point, that's all.

But yeah, I had a busy week. Sorry. xD

again, this is an interesting response to duckhunter. there are slight hints at a relationship here, but it may be too early to call the mafia team as duckhunter & Painkiller. i'll be watching their dynamic for a bit.

Mostly a hunch but the both don't post much at all until they are asked to. This IC is awfully quiet.

i did mention in my 3rd post that my time online for pleasure is somewhat limited. as you can see by this lengthy post, i will address everything that catches my attention or that is addressed to me.

so, now that i am caught up, i like my vote on duckhunter. as noted above he is acting scummy and i don't like how he is reacting to the pressure. he seems to be defending himself and randomly trying to throw suspicion off himself rather than confronting the pressure with reasoning.

@duckhunter4242
who do you think is most likely to be scum at this point in the game, and why? i'd like to see at least 2 reasons if not 3. your current vote is on DLE for his walltexts being "unnecessary and off topic". while that may be true, i don't feel that reasoning is strong enough to support a vote.

[LyingBrian]

I think that it's too early to have any real town reads. I think that mafia could easily act a lot like a townie this early in the game, so it would be counter-productive to talk about who we think is town, as this could change a lot later in the game. In my opinion, it is better to suspect everyone and focus on those who I consider most likely to be scum, rather than possibly being tricked into thinking that one of the mafia is town. It surprises me, Fakinha, that you're wanting town reads. Could you be mafia hoping to get people to think that you or your fellow mafia are town? I'm even more surprised that you are voting for Shinki because of this. I don't understand how this makes her any more likely to be scum, especially since not many other players are providing much substance at the moment.

i disagree that it's too early to have town reads, but i agree that D1 is not the time to be talking about who is most town. that conversation can be saved for endgame when things are much murkier. i have a mild suspicion about everyone, just based on the natural premise of the game, but i'm going to continue to influence the conversation towards whom i consider most scummy.

I know how Shinki is, lemme vote ): I'm lost here, so I might go random sometimes, I apologise.
UNVOTE:

But srsly... idk what to think... feel frustrated.

You don't need to be so easily influenced. If you are town and had reason to believe that Shinki is likely to be scum, then that reason is valuable. Just because I don't think it is a good reason to vote for someone, it doesn't mean that I'm right. I could be totally wrong. I even could be scum trying to manipulate you.

I must say that I'm confused by your sudden change in vote and opinion though...

i agree with DV here. this was a weird order of posts. you asked for Shinki to stop lurking, Shinki doesn't take the bait, so Fakinha unvotes, then Shinki comments there will be content tomorrow. i can't decide if Shinki is scummy or like he said random, but this definitely stands out.

Just noting that all of the suspicion I received was off of my sheeping and fakinha just sheeped off of her vote after one post that questioned her vote, seems pretty scummy to me

i'm curious why you didn't address my question to you at all duckhunter? also, once again duckhunter is trying to shift the blame onto someone else rather than present a reasoned defense. also, sheeping means to follow someone, so to "sheep off" a vote doesn't make sense to me, and i'm not sure i understand your point, can you clarify this please? as well as answering my question from my previous post.

confirm vote: duckhunter4242

Vote Fakinha

You ask someone to stop lurking, they make one useless post then you unvote.

@sorgster: can you explain WHY you think this is scummy? the process of finding scum doesn't just come from how people react, but also their discussion on why certain people in certain situations are scummy.

[LyingBrian]

@Brian So just because we agreed on a point it makes us have some sort of relationship? When I made that statement, people already were pressuring him. If we were a team I think siding with him at that point would be extremely dangerous and stupid. Again, I only agreed with him about the wall texts part, not about his sheeping (the main reason people are finding him scum).

it is not the fact that you agree on a point that makes me suspect a relationship, it is the tone in which your posts are constructed that makes me suspect it. again, not enough to go down that road, just a mild suspicion

I'd vote for you if you didn't already have 3 votes. I'm not sure whether we should make the day last longer though. What I want to know is: What does everyone (particularly those who haven't voted for him) think of duckhunter at this stage? Does anyone think that he is likely to be town? If so, please tell us why. He is my main suspect for mafia right now because I don't understand why he wouldn't be able to answer questions completely and honestly without contradiction if he is town.

my answer to this should be reasonably obvious. i am curious why you don't want to be the 4th vote. scum don't like to put the next-to-last vote on a player b/c if the lynchee turns up town, the person who receives the most heat is the vote before the lynching vote.

lyingbrian i think is overly paranoid about this test thing. take a chill pill, its just a test

if it's JUST a test, why do you want me to answer so badly?

@ Fakinha as many people have said the floppiness of your Shinki vote was a little questionable, Also why mention that you have been together on a different site, Scum Team? working together?

@DV I don't see why you were scared to vote me L-1, but whatever your reason doesn't seem very townie, maybe the scum are looking to kill someone harder because everyone would think I'm scum if someone other than me gets lynched and I don't get NK.

@Lying Brian sheeping off a vote makes plenty of sense because sheeping would be following someone if someone says I don't think 'X' is scum sheeping would be removing your vote just because someone doesn't think they are scum. i.e. what Fakinha did.
@Shinki Still waiting on that content your promised 2 days ago

in addition to continuing to ignore my questions, you have also managed to try to shift suspicion onto 3 other people.

bolded

: this is actually a very good point, except i don't see a push for a lynch on anyone else. so who is this scum, and who is the 'someone harder' their trying to lynch? try answering my previous questions along w/ this one, please

[LyingBrian]

DLE I'm pretty sure is townie. Don't have quite enough suspicion on anyone to deserve a vote

Unvote

if the above is true, then you are not playing the same game i am. you are trying to look passive here instead of aggressive, but it ends up making you look even scummier. reread the thread, and i'm sure you'll find someone deserving of your vote.

LyingBrian: Why did you feel the need to "confirm vote" in post 138? Shouldn't the fact that your vote is already on him be enough? Also, you are also posting HUGE walls of text. I guess it's more understandable than what DLE is doing, because you are able to post less often, but still, conciseness is town. Read: Null-to-town

the confirm vote was to make a point. basically, duckhunter is SO scummy i wish i could vote for him twice, but since i can't, i "confirmed" my vote. concerning my HUGE walls of text, see DLE. my POSTS tend to be big, b/c of quoting and then commentary, but my commentary IS pretty concise. i use the quote feature to keep things in context, and also to help me remember WHY i said what i said. if it would help, i can do 4 or 5 quotes/commentaries per post, but don't try to accuse me of inflating my post count.

Not really for manipulating.. I would vote him for trying to see

who's worth killing

in the night based on our answers and personalities.

This reeks of scum to me. Also, other than #114 in shinki's posts so far, she hasn't posted stuff that is useful to the town.

i'm curious WHY you think this post you quoted is scummy, sorgster. also, hello Pot, i believe you just outed the Kettle. <-- basically, you haven't contributed that much to the game thusfar, either.

FOS: sorgster

I don't see why #33 is scummy. But I do know that Shinki can be a lot more usefull than that.
And... sheesh, I don't understand why so much comotion about me voting and unvoting Shinki. My vote was like "hey, give some atention to the game, will ya?". Cuz I know she's with time enough to play this.

i haven't decided what i think about your quick unvote, tbh. it didn't give me scum vibes, but on the other hand, i'm having trouble reading you. your quirkiness is offsetting a "normal" read...

[LyingBrian]

if the above is true, then you are not playing the same game i am. you are trying to look passive here instead of aggressive, but it ends up making you look even scummier. reread the thread, and i'm sure you'll find someone deserving of your vote.

Here it makes it sound like you have some big scum read on someone other than me which would be news to everyone, so please let us know who this big scum is that I should easily be able to find.

• you're missing the point. my point is that you should be able to find someone suspicious enough to vote for at this stage in the game
  
• once again, you're trying to shift suspicion onto someone else without addressing the suspicion that is already on you
  
• i've already identified the scum.
  i'm voting for them
  
  
• the following is a list of questions that i have asked you thusfar in the game which you have failed to answer. i've even gone to the trouble of bolding them, so you don't have to read
  everything
  . please answer them at this time

@duckhunter4242, why do you think that DLL's "need" to defend himself is scummy?

feel free to take at least 3 sentences to expound your thought rather than a one sentence blurb.

@duckhunter4242

who do you think is most likely to be scum at this point in the game, and why?

i'd like to see at least 2 reasons if not 3. your current vote is on DLE for his walltexts being "unnecessary and off topic". while that may be true, i don't feel that reasoning is strong enough to support a vote.

in addition to continuing to ignore my questions, you have also managed to try to shift suspicion onto 3 other people.

bolded

: this is actually a very good point, except i don't see a push for a lynch on anyone else.

so who is this scum, and who is the 'someone harder' their trying to lynch?

try answering my previous questions along w/ this one, please

[LyingBrian]

@lyingbrian I think I've said why I didn't want to vote for duckhunter yet, but it seems that you've missed it. Anyway, I feel that some people aren't giving clear opinions on duckhunter and I'd appreciate knowing what they think before I vote. If I vote, duckhunter is at L-1 and it only takes one more vote to lynch so the day could be over very quickly and I don't think the day needs to be rushed. I think it best to have everyone's opinion first for two reasons (in case they are not clear already):
- so that we're less likely to miss anything that makes duckhunter less likely to be scum
- so that we have more information for the next day based on whether duckhunter is town or scum

i think i'd be in favor of someone hammering the last vote on duckhunter. from experience, it's unlikely that we'll get much more out of D1 unless we get another bandwagon going. a hammer vote, however, would be VERY informative, especially IF duckhunter turns up town. trust me, the discussion will be much more fervent w/ someone @ L-1, than it will be at this point. it's time we got serious about lynching someone, otherwise this day will be ill spent. btw, if duckhunter is scum, i will remember your hesitation.

@Yoshi IMHO I think that sheeping with one person to try and make a little bandwagon day 1 is not scummy, because it puts more pressure on one person to make them defensive and see how they react. Now on the other hand if a person was at 3 votes and 2 people quickly voted to get a lynch yes that seems scummy to me.

2 quick votes isn't sheeping, it's hammering. sheeping is BLINDLY following someone aka following someone in a vote (or unvote as you made the case for earlier) w/o really giving due justification for the move.

[LyingBrian]

i apologize for my recent failure to post. i'm at work right now, so i can't analyze the game, but a couple of off-the-cuff remarks.

1. i'm not shocked by duckhunter flipping town. he had scummy behavior to be sure, but a lot of newer players tend to play scummy at first.

2. i'm extremely shocked by sorgster's death. i had already planned on blasting him as soon as Day 2 opened, as his hammer on Day 1 was extremely scummy, which only further proves point 1.

3. to stay consistent with my point yesterday about the next-to-last vote, and because of suspicion i have which i will elaborate on later:

Vote: DeasVail

[LyingBrian]

hey everyone! i just found out my sister-in-law is in labor. it may be a couple days before i'm able to come back online.

[LyingBrian]

don't have time to do a good reread right now as i'm at work, but my vote is on DeasVail b/c of his vote on duckhunter yesterday. the next to last vote is a good place for scum to hide, the next would be at the beginning of the vote count. here's my case against DeasVail:

I also suspect Fakinha, but duckhunter seems more scummy to me right now.

this seems like he's setting up an alternate suspect in case the lynching of duckhunter falls through

@Duckhunter and DaLetterEl: By taking duckhunter to L-1, a quick lynch would be made more likely. I don't see the need to rush and I'd like to know what everyone thinks of duckhunter first, particularly those of you who haven't voted for him. (I'd also like to know what duckhunter thinks)

in a regular game a quick lynch is very favorable b/c that's generally a high indicator of scumminess. the mafia did us a huge favor by night-killing sorgster. what mafia tend to be fearful of is their partner coming behind them on the next to last vote & hammering the lynchee. any innocent person wouldn't lynch a player unless under deadline or there are no other good candidates.

@lyingbrian I think I've said why I didn't want to vote for duckhunter yet, but it seems that you've missed it. Anyway, I feel that some people aren't giving clear opinions on duckhunter and I'd appreciate knowing what they think before I vote. If I vote, duckhunter is at L-1 and it only takes one more vote to lynch so the day could be over very quickly and I don't think the day needs to be rushed. I think it best to have everyone's opinion first for two reasons (in case they are not clear already):
- so that we're less likely to miss anything that makes duckhunter less likely to be scum
- so that we have more information for the next day based on whether duckhunter is town or scum

again, DeasVail defends his reasoning for NOT voting duckhunter. it's not b/c he is unsure of duckhunter's "scumminess", it's b/c he's waiting for the town to tell him it's ok to vote for duckhunter. he wants to poll the town BEFORE he places his vote, very scummy indeed.

Duckhunter, can you please decide whether your "sheeping" was scummy or not?

now he wants the votee to tell him the "sheeping" was scummy to justify his vote

Vote: Duckhunter4242

Also, @lyingbrian: Why would my hesitation be worth remembering? I don't see what's wrong with hesitating to lynch duckhunter when we have so much time and can't be sure that he is scum.

your hesitation wasn't in LYNCHING duckhunter. you were not the last vote. your hesitation was in VOTING for duckhunter. the reason i said it would be worth remembering is b/c of the previous case. i didn't like your hesitation in D1, but unfortunately i didn't get the time to build a case against you before duckhunter was lynched.

I thought that was quite likely when all that he had done was sheep, as I've seen townies do it before, but his reactions to the questions and suspicion didn't make much sense to me when I considered his posts as if he was town. I still think it's quite possible that duck is town, but to me he seems more likely to be scum than anyone else.

again, this confirms that DeasVail was hesitating in voting for duckhunter b/c he wanted to make sure he was safe in doing so first, NOT b/c he suspected duckhunter of not being scummy.

[LyingBrian]

@Deasvail
i didn't get any response from DeasVail that i wasn't expecting. i know you didn't need permission per se, you just wanted your vote to be favorable to the majority of the town. again, a quick lynch of duckhunter is favorable, as that is a highly scummy move. you responded to my pressure on why you weren't voting for him, not so much "trusting" me, i think.

Brian, I'm confused.

Why would the next-to-last vote still be a safe place to hide

after you said it was where scum usually are?

This is a WIFOM argument. whether i mentioned it or not, it is still the best place for scum to be in the vote count. doesn't mean it's a guaranteed thing, just more likely than anywhere else in the count.

@DLE
my method to finding scum is to focus on individuals until i find my first scum, then after a successful lynch, reread the thread focusing on relationships.

@Shink
i'd like to hear you claim. i haven't been pressuring you b/c i actually was getting a cop read from you. i thought you targeted Kirbyoshi during the night, and got a positive. but if you aren't claiming cop, than i would like to hear a solid, concise case against him. while i think Kirbyoshi's vote on you was weak reasoning, i don't see it as scummy enough to lynch him.

[LyingBrian]

It's cool how you ignore my questions about the game being the IC.
But whatever, I'm a VT and that's all, and [/irony]SURE I'll give you you an awesome, solid and concise case, as the experienced player I am.[/irony]

being passive-agressive about it, isn't going to help. i'm sure you've had to make an argument for something before in your lifetime. all i'm asking is that you construct your argument to include more than just a mildly suspicious vote. if you point out a question directed to me that i overlooked, i'll be more than happy to answer it. btw, i am noticing how you ignored my request to claim.

FOS: Shinki

refusal to claim WILL result in a vote

[LyingBrian]

@Shinki

i apologize. i didn't realize what that abbreviation was for. for anyone else that's not connecting the dots,

VT = Vanilla Townie

. At least that's my assumption. Not sure why you didn't clarify that point rather than restating it, but i'm not so sure that's scummy, as much as unhelpful.

[LyingBrian]

I'm just disappointed I guess...

I am disappointed as well, but that's b/c you haven't really given me a reason NOT to vote you. i really don't think you are scum, but when the pressure is on (which it is right now), you like duckhunter have seemingly given up rather than fighting. you have still failed to give more than just the hint of a case against Kirbyoshi, but yet you insistently pronounce him as scum. you've also failed to offer any type of defense against the votes currently on you. as IC, i feel it is my duty to point out sloppy play, and this is another prime example. get your act together, post something that the rest of us can analyze, either a case against Kirby or a defense of your position, and help the town find the scum. if you can't or won't, then i'm sorry, but you are as unuseful to the town as the Mafia, and should be lynched on principle.

i'd really like to see your next post reflect what i've said above, so if it takes you just under 72 hours to put it together and post, that's understandable.

[LyingBrian]

Really now, WHY should you vote me? My wagon is totally stupid imo, there's no reason besides "loooolzzz she thinkhz someone iz scumz without reazonz, lynch1!!!!".
And I already said that. I don't have a solid, concise and explendid case against Kirbyoshi, it's mostly gut. I'm sorry. And I won't have one just because I'm about to be lynched, I apologize, again.
My wagon is stupid and we got 3 votes on, and.. I'll use some metagame here. I know painkiller well, so I guess he just got discouraged about the game because he got a boring role, prolly a vanilla townie too. That's a blind shot, but I'll stick with it for the time being. Velazanth is using reasons such as verb tenses. Hey now, that's kinda stupid too but just don't sheep the wrong cases.
And who are the other two on my wagon? Deas and Kirbyoshi.

Well, that's it, I don't think I have anything else to add. I failed to achieve your expectations for this post, but that's reciprocal so it's all good. you probably didn't saw my questions to you in D1, right?

Oh, and by the way

" if you can't or won't, then i'm sorry, but you are as unuseful to the town as the Mafia, and should be lynched on principle. "

We have 7 people left and I should be lynched cause I'm townie, but not useful at all? Hm, right. I'd say that sounded very scummy, and you would be 3rd on my scumlist after Kirby and Deas.

• 1st - concerning questions from you to me in D1, are you referring to post 183? If so, i fail to see how that's relevant to the current discussion.
  
• 2nd - i'm glad to hear that you realize there is no case against Kirbyoshi right now. if all you have is your gut, then why are you pushing so hard for us to lynch him? do you expect us to trust you w/o a cop claim that he is scum based on your gut?
  
• 3rd - i can't say that the case against you is totally unfounded. if you are claiming someone is scum w/o something besides your gut to back it up, how would you expect us to react?
  
• 4th - concerning the second quote i've listed: you've
  CLAIMED
  townie, doesn't mean you are. this is another WIFOM argument. what is the difference between scum that is unhelpful to the discussion, and a townie that is unhelpful to the discussion? the answer is: not much. the reason lurking is so scummy is b/c the more a person talks, the more you get to examine, analyze and determine if that person is town or scum. the same is true w/ being helpful to the discussion. if you are not contributing positively to the discussion, i have to assume you are scum, b/c a townie would want to contribute regardless of whether or not they get lynched b/c that discussion will help lynch scum the next day. that's why i added the phrase "on principle" to the end of my statement.
  
• 5th - i'm curious WHY you think i'm scum? is it b/c i'm pressuring you, or is it another gut feeling?

My posts: 304 and 306 pretty much cover why I'm voting for you. The main thing for me is how you use the suspicion on me generated by others to dismiss anything I say and as an excuse to not answer any of my questions. I don't understand why you would do this if you were town and knew you were innocent. And even if I was scum, answering my questions wouldn't be of any harm and would only cause more discussion.

It is because of this, and other reasons, that I think you're scum.

while i do agree w/ DeasVail here that Shinki is not properly facing DV's accusations, i also get the suspicion that DV is using that to his advantage to put pressure on Shinki. i don't want to lose sight of my case against DV in the midst of rooting out Shinki's alignment.

No 100% sure about hit but so what? Can't I think someone is confirmed town? Sorgster was 100% on my eyes before he died, for exemple.

Stupid questions, not worthy response. Do an ISO of me or whatever.

this may be another rabbit trail, but this post didn't sit well w/ me. the statement about sorgster being 100% town in your eyes before he died doesn't jive w/ your language before he was NK'd

@Sorgster
Either you misinterpreted very badly Shinki's post or you're trying to distorce her words. That's really not cool.
Explain us how you interpreted her post that way?

Oh. I know the logic is flawed. I was baiting you and hoping you would say a pr role thus guaranteeing you as scum.

Worst pressure post I've ever read. He just claimed town, didn't give us a role... why did you post that? Just continue the pressure. Sigh...

nothing in either one of those posts even remotely suggests you thought sorgster was town, let alone 100% town. so Fakinha, what led you to believe that sorgster was 100% town BEFORE he was killed?

also

mod

, i'm assuming we'll be getting prods for both DLE & Kirbyoshi?

[LyingBrian]

hmm, found this interesting:

And I already said that. I don't have a solid, concise and explendid case against Kirbyoshi, it's mostly gut.

can you point me to WHERE you said this, Shinki? b/c i just ran all posts from you, and i don't see that mentioned anywhere, but maybe i'm overlooking it.

but i did find this:

My answers to Fakinha are like this 'cause I don't like the way he's playing.
He's all "Oh, x is scum and y is scum buddy, my gut feeling tells me everything, I don't need to do anything, just because...

isn't this what EXACTLY what you're doing right now? again, please explain why we should trust your gut, especially when you blast someone else for operating off their gut?

[LyingBrian]

Shinki: When I ask questions it is often not for scumhunting. A lot of the time it is so that I can get someone's thoughts on something or get them to explain something which was not clear when they posted.

As for my hesitation to vote, big deal! Wow, I'm just soooooo scummy because I said I would have voted for duckhunter if he wasn't at L-2. It's almost as if LB has assumed that I'm scum and is explaining my actions considering that I'm scum. The tiny problem with this is that I'm town, but of course, when I challenge his "reasons" for my actions, it's not anything he didn't expect. Obviously I'm lying because I'm already scum, right?

the bolded portion stuck out to me.
@DeasVail, how do you scumhunt, then?

i also think your manipulating sequence of events in the above post a little. it was your hesitation to vote that set off a red flag, and upon deeper analysis i found a common thread of seeming like you were trying a bit too hard to get town approval for your vote. i didn't make the case that you were scummy, then go back to old information to reinforce the case (explaining your actions under the assumption you're scum). i used all of the information at once to build the case that you are scum, and now i'm using this manipulation of how i built the case as reinforcement of the point.

good scum don't often make huge mistakes to paint a target on their back, sometimes it's a small misstep.

Are you guys serious? Sorgster was obv town. And for me, Cjdrum (now Kirbyoshi) was pretty much townie too. He is still low on my suspect list, but none here is confirmed town on my eyes like Sorgster was.

you have yet to reveal to us what sorgster said that made him an angel in your eyes. i went back and reviewed his posts, and didn't see anything that was extremely towniesh. in fact his hammer of duckhunter was extremely scummy (as i've said multiple times before)

Asking questions is pro-town. Suppressing them is scummy. So is actively refusing to answer them. Shinki=scum. Lynch her.

Also, Fakinha, I love how you call Vela "scum boy," assumedly simply because he disagrees with you. Smooth. Very smooth.

really? after over 3 days of inactivity, you come back to the game w/ a 2 line post? lurk much? what are your thoughts on the developments since your last post?

FOS: Kirbyoshi

[LyingBrian]

LyingBrian: I do scumhunt by asking questions and by considering the posts people make and the possible motivations behind them. My point was that when I ask a question, I'm not necessarily trying to figure out if the one I question is scum. A lot of the time it is because I want people to share their thoughts for discussion or explain something which was not clear in their post.

The nature of your case was generally: DeasVail did this because of (insert scum motivation), and did this because of (insert scum motivation), assuming that I'm scum without considering the actual reasons why I hesitated in voting duckhunter. You had a decent point, but I'm amazed that it's what makes me the most suspicious to you at this stage and that people won't answer my questions because they're also assuming I'm scum. And I realise now that there's nothing I can do to fix this because people hardly change what they think over the course of the game (e.g. fakinha's town reads) It is your inclusion of irrelevant points such as me mentioning my suspicion of Fakinha and wanting duckhunter to clarify what he thought of his sheeping that make me think you may have been more concerned with how convincing your case was (including as many points as possible) than whether I'm actually scum or not, a reason why I suspect you.

at first your response to my pressuring you seemed like you were squirming for a defense, but this reply is well thought out and logical. your motivation for hesitating will never be truly known until after the game is finished, and i'm still not happy w/ how you approached the vote. i'm not satisfied that your vote wasn't scummy, but i am going to focus my attention elsewhere. closing question for you, DV. who is most likely to be Shinki's partner?

unvote

vote: Kirbyoshi

his performance on Day 2 so far has been less than extraordinary, and i really don't like how he showed up after 3 days of absence w/ a small post that didn't really contribute to the game. also, his vote on Shinki seems more opportunistic than actual scumhunting.

[LyingBrian]

If Shinki was lynched right now and revealed scum, I would look at:
-you because it seems like you may be diverting attention away from Shinki
-kirbyoshi because I find the certainty with which Shinki was insisting that kirby is scum suspicious
-Fakinha because he has always made it clear how he suspected Shinki, but was never willing to attempt to lynch her.
All in addition to other things I find suspicious about them.

here's what i don't like about this post DeasVail, and this seems to be a common thread in your posts. you are manipulating information. i am not diverting attention away from Shinki. there is a clear difference between diverting and ignoring. i'm ignoring the bandwagon on Shinki, 1)b/c i really don't think she's scum. 2)i find the case against her weak.
i do however find her bulldog attitude that Kirbyoshi is scum to be suspicious, but i get the feeling she's just being stubborn.

Brian: My tendency is simply to not post huge walls. Is that scummy?

posting/not posting huge walls of text is not the issue here. the issue is that it has been 3 days since you posted, and you have failed to contribute more than 2 lines. do you honestly not have anything to say about either case? if you are not scumhunting, i'm guessing it's b/c you already found them (yourself). if Shinki is scum, who is her partner?

1 - That's not relevant to the discussion, but I still would like to know. It's not about this game, it's general stuff.
2 - Of course not. But trying doesn't hurt, and you'll like when he flips scum. :3
3 - Not like DeasVail reacted at least.
4 - So, do you think I'm townie or scum?
5 - I don't think you're scum, I think you're scummy. By "scumlist" I should've said scummy list, but nevermind this one

1. remind me at the end of the game, and i'll answer them.
2. *sigh* repeating it over and over doesn't make it true. move on, or be lynched
4. honestly, i think you're a townie who's playing poorly.

[LyingBrian]

Here

It's cool how you ignore my questions about the game being the IC.
But whatever, I'm a VT and that's all, and

[irony]SURE I'll give you you an awesome, solid and concise case, as the experienced player I am.[/irony]

i see where you say that you don't have a solid case against him, but where do you say it's a gut vote?

LyingBrian.

DeasVail questions are really something a townie would do?
'cause you know, I'm a townie, but whatever I say I'm being questioned about. His questions are different from yours. Yours I see that there is a point that you're trying to clarify or achieve, but DV questions are just unnecessary and pointless in my point of view, that get us nowhere.

Almost ANYTHING I say he proceeds with a questionary.

Do I really have to ask so much useless questions to a "suspect" ('suspect' I mean because I got three votes, even if I don't really know why) to be townie?

Or he's doing that to LOOK LIKE a townie? Really, I'm a townie and I'm almost being lynched, but I don't feel the need to go around asking question like that and deflecting on others that I didn't suspected beforehand to confirm my alignment. To be honest, I don't even know exactly how to confirm my alignment, but I do see that DV is doing it wrong.
I want to contribute, but asking this kind of questions is the only way?

was this directed at me? sometimes it's really hard to read your posts, Shinki. the bolded sentences are ones that i didn't understand

LyingBrian may be the other, being the IC and experienced as player and deceiving all the newbies like us. But that only a remote chance about LB.

the argument that i'm mafia b/c i'm the IC is WIFOM. just sayin'.

[LyingBrian]

LyingBrian: Although my post could have been worded better, I don't think I've been manipulating anything. I'm only saying that you may be diverting attention from Shinki by focusing on other players. By ignoring Shinki and suspecting Kirby you could be scum trying to prevent Shinki's lynch if she is your scum partner by convincing us that she is not the most likely to be scum.

and you could be scum trying to divert attention away from Kirbyoshi, which i find more likely b/c you didn't list my "diverting" attention away from Shinki as a possibility of my being scum until AFTER i voted for Kirbyoshi. Why did you decide to list it then, and not earlier?

Brian: Posting one-liners is null, and is more likely to be a sign of a busy RL than a person's role. If Shinki is scum, Fakinha is her partner. It seems like they're using the fact that they know each other to subtly communicate in-thread. As far as reactions to cases, I don't see any cohesive cases on anyone really. I see some passing unwarranted suspicion of Vela. Vela is playing pro-town, and there's no reason to suspect him. DV has been rising on my scumdar recently. I believe I said before that I think he's buddying me, and I haven't decided yet whether it's newbtown buddying the SE or scum buddying town.

Oh also, +more scumpoints to Shinki for trying to cast suspicion on the IC simply on the basis of being the IC. Brian has no more pure chance of being scum than anyone else in this game.

a few things here:

• 1) although i may have made a comment about the length of your post, my issue was with the lack of content more than the length. lack of content is a sign of lurking (which you have being doing almost all game), which is scummy.
  
• 2) i think you're reading into the Shinki/Fakinha relationship, possibly throwing your partner under the bus? not sure about that, but i've seen it done this way before
  
• 3) no cohesive case on anyone? not even who you're voting for? i'll get back to this in a minute
  
• 4) while i agree with your point, you really think Shinki is being scummy here? i find it reasonable for a noob townie to suspect an IC b/c of the experience, but the argument is WIFOM. what makes it especially scummy?

Hint for Fakinha: faking n00biness is scummy. I know you complained about how no one was reading your posts to see who you found scummy, but this is the closest thing I found. I know you don't want to end the day early, but is there anything else keeping you from voting for Shinki?

ok, so last post Kirbyoshi said he didn't see any cohesive cases, yet here he's pushing Fakinha for a vote on Shinki. scum driving a bandwagon? methinks so.

[LyingBrian]

I agree with Shinki's point about LyingBrian being the IC and being able to manipulate and deceive everyone if he is scum.

here's the problem i have w/ this post. when Shinki first mentioned it, i took it as a harmless comment. suspicion, but no substance behind it. in fact, i commented the argument was WIFOM. now, DV comes behind and agrees w/ Shinki, adding another layer (manipulation). if you truly suspect me of manipulating, DV, point it out now for everyone else to discuss.

was this directed at me? sometimes it's really hard to read your posts, Shinki. the bolded sentences are ones that i didn't understand

Yep, I want to know your opinion about DV play style in this day, if it's townie or scummy.

Almost ANYTHING I say he proceeds with a questionary. Do I really have to ask so much useless questions to a "suspect" ('suspect' I mean because I got three votes, even if I don't really know why) to be townie? Or he's doing that to LOOK LIKE a townie?

Basically, DV's questionary after every one of my posts is a townie or a scum-trying-to-look-like-townie thing to do?

honestly, i think you're a townie who's playing poorly.

You're right.
So, how can I improve?

• 1) his play style? it's either bordering on the noob/SE townie play or excellent scum play. haven't decided for sure yet
  
• 2) honestly, i think it's null. i'd be looking at how he's wording the questions moreso than whether or not he's questioning you
  
• 3) oh boy... well, you could start off by building an actual case against Kirbyoshi, rather than relying on gut. also, defending yourself reasonably wouldn't hurt. also, being clearer in your points would help tremendously

Oh, and

i see where you say that you don't have a solid case against him, but where do you say it's a gut vote?

I didn't said anything about gut-vote before, only about the concise, solic, etc.

And I already said that. I don't have a solid, concise and explendid case against Kirbyoshi, it's mostly gut.

I know that here I said as if it were the whole sentence, but it's not, sorry if I wasn't clear.

an example of my last point is here, Shinki.

and,

DLE

, when you finally post, can you do us a favor and break it up like i've done mine?

[LyingBrian]

LyingBrian: I agree I could be scum trying to divert attention away from Kirbyoshi, and I said it then because you asked me to provide my thoughts then and not earlier. What I want to know is why can't you accept the fact that from my perspective, you could possibly be scum trying to divert attention from Shinki?

b/c it's your perspective, and i'm certain i'm not scum ;P
why do you think not talking about the Shinki failwagon is equal to diverting attention? and why do you think that's scummy?

I agreed because everyone was attacking her for it and I thought that if she's town she has a good point. I've already said most of what I think of you and I feel that I have to suspect you of manipulating, because if you are scum then that's exactly what you're doing. I do not "believe" that you are manipulating, but I think it's a possibility that needs to be considered, instead of just mindlessly following what you say because you're the IC. I've already said that it's mostly because of the nature of your case against me that I suspect of you of manipulating and additionally, I find your complaints about me to be not much more than nitpicking.

the nature of my case is good ole' fashioned scum hunting. if you dislike every little move you make being analyzed, pieced together and constructed as a case for your being scum, then you may be in the wrong game. it only "seems" like manipulation to you b/c either 1)i'm right about your being scum, and you're trying to deflect suspicion back onto me, or 2)i'm wrong and you're not used to this level of critical analysis, so you try to deflect suspicion back onto me. either way, it looks scummy, so i'm calling it as i see it.

and i like to think of myself as thorough, not nitpicky.

DV, I get the feeling that Brian's playing the DA for us... As an IC he's making sure we have the full mafia experience. If Shinki flips town, I'd take a solid look at his iso in relation to the night action.

Interested to hear from DLE...

by DA are you referring to the real life acronym for District Attorney? i don't recall anything w/ that acronym that's mafia-related. you are correct, i do have a dual responsibility, partly to my role as IC, partly to my role as a townie. that, and this really is my Mafia personality.

Velazanth, you've never really said WHY you're voting Shinki... In fact, i would say you've been actively lurking. Not really saying a whole lot, but making sure you post every once in a while. I'm curious what you think about each player. Who is most likely to be Shinki's partner? If she's town, who do we look at next?

@DLE, i must say i'm disappointed in your activity of late. you've never really been high on my scum list, but this lurking has got to stop. if you can't contribute, at least have the decency to request replacement rather than feeding us this dribble that you'll post soon.

[LyingBrian]

Why do you use Shinki's posts? Why not consider why I find kirbyoshi suspicious?

Because you're voting me and not Kirbyoshi maybe?

sorry for the absence everyone, i got my days mixed up and thought i could post later today. that being said, it's really late, and i'm tired, so i'll post more tomorrow, but i did find the above interesting.

Shinki, let me get this straight:
Fakinha should not consider why DeasVail considers Kirbyoshi suspicious, b/c Deasvail is voting YOU?
[sarcasm] yeah, that doesn't make you sound like you two are a scum team at all [/sarcasm]

[LyingBrian]

hmm, less than a day to deadline. for the record, i like a kirbyoshi lynch better than a Shinki lynch. however, that being said if it comes down to it, i will move my vote to the Shinki bandwagon as a townie being lynched is better than a no lynch. (if you don't understand why, just ask). it seems the town is pretty split on this decision, so i'm curious if & where DLE is going to vote.

[LyingBrian]

ok, lesson number whatever... NEVER self-hammer. it robs the town of information. i understand you're frustrated Shinki, but you potentially just lost us the game, b/c how people act when the pressure is on, is a big part of getting a good read. i'm not saying i disagree w/ your reads, but we may have gotten some extra information on DLE if you had not self-hammered. although, i might switch Velazanth for DeasVail for scum. DeasVail recently had a great post which i thought was extremely pro-town.

@Kirbyoshi
who is scum, provided Shinki flips town?

[LyingBrian]

You're wrong, I just won you the game ): all the information we need is at my wagon aaand null DLE, who is nowhere to be seen.

this is the wrong mindset. even if you are correct, you are sacrificing information for your own satisfaction. your move was incredibly selfish, and is another item on the list of how unhelpful you have been to the town.

[LyingBrian]

And no, kirbyoshi, I was not shirking responsibility for a hammer. I had a debate tournament this past weekend and wanted to reread today to see if any discussion developed. I want to symbolically VOTE: kirbyoshi as this was how I was leaning prior to this self hammer shit.

it's easy to come up w/ an excuse & a vote after the lynch has occurred. this doesn't really tell us anything about your predilection to whom you really were going to vote.

If shinki turns up scum, I love a lyingbrian lynch tomorrow.

why do you think i would be best to lynch if Shinki flips scum?

also, although anything is possible, you usually don't see scum self-hammering and still proclaiming themselves town, even in a newbie game.

If she turns up town, we honestly don't learn that much, although I lean towards kirbyoshi/deasvail as a team.

i agree with this. provided kirbyoshi survives the night, i definitely will be pushing for his lynch tomorrow. if he doesn't, i'll have to reassess the entire game.

[LyingBrian]

@Lying, I think she is scum and is trying to trick us into feeling guilty for lynching her. Also, as if scum will kill kirby if it's not him...

@DV, what is the advantage of trying to trick us into feeling guilty? i don't think it's beyond the scope of possibility as Shinki's gameplay seems to be very emotional, just curious why you think this is the case.

I particularly like a lynch of you because I could see you in night phase telling shinki to push a kirbyoshi lynch, and then you did damage control.

i've been saying i think Shinki is HorribleNoobTown for a while now. what would be the advantage of my hypothetically telling Shinki to push a kirbyoshi lynch, defending Shinki almost the whole day, and then switch my vote to kirbyoshi halfway during the day? that's a horrible strategy for my trying to look pro-town, especially when to DV & Velaz, i am a manipulative SOB. i am curious as to your answer on that question, even so.

You'd self-hammer to perhaps make DLE out to be suspicious and plant the seed for a later mislynch perhaps? (assuming he's not your partner)
Or self-hammer because you're worried your scum partner might hammer you and look suspicious in doing so?

heh, these conspiracy theories are getting wackier by the minute.

1) if Shinki is scum, how does DLE look suspicious for being late to the party? while i don't like his excuse, it's perfectly legitimate
2) the hypothetical scum partner (if that's who the hammer vote would be) would look not look that suspicious if it was close to deadline and he hammered. it would look like any lynch is better than no lynch.

[LyingBrian]

well, that sucks. just went through Fakinha's Day 2, and noticed something interesting. i was the only person that Fakinha did NOT vote Day 2. also, immediately after i made a case against DeasVail, Fakinha moved his vote to DV. of course we can't be certain, but i'm wondering if Fakinha was trying to send a subtle message that he investigated me Night 1 and that i was town. other than that, didn't find anything substantial to give us a hint who he investigated Night 1.

also, i want to ammend an earlier statement. i stated right after Day 2 started that i was surprised sorgster was killed. i forgot that they've changed roles up significantly from the last time i played a newbie, and that the GF had a Role Cop ability. is it possible the Mafia was extremely lucky in picking the right 2 people to investigate?

anyways, on to scum-hunting. i really like kirbyoshi as lynchee #1. i'm going to officially

PsuedoVote: Kirbyoshi

as we are at LYLO, and if any 1 person is wrong, both scum could jump at the chance to hammer a VT.

@Kirbyoshi
why do you think the Mafia killed Fakinha? also, who is your #1 suspect?

P.S.
i'm going to take this opportunity as the IC to encourage everyone to participate heavily during this game day. it can be very informative, especially if we go to Day 4.

[LyingBrian]

Now this is WIFOM, but in the last part of this post he tells us a few key things:

1. He knows Shinki is town.
2. He's "trying to look pro-town".
3. He offers a pro-town reason for why DLE didn't hammer.

When I reread this:

Extreme Distancing(DaLetterEl/LyingBrian)

I realized who our mafia team was.

Now watch what they've done at the beginning of Day three. DLE's first post says that Fakinha was "telegraphing extremely hard that lyingbrian was clean". The above quote shows that this is not the case.

And this is the scummiest post in the game. Keeping in mind the things I've presented, entertain the theory that my proposed scum are implementing their plan to sweep a perfect win.

VOTE: LyingBrian

thank you for taking such a hard stance, Velazanth. you just made this game easy. i honestly wasn't sure who Kirby's scum partner was yet, but you revealed yourself with the above post. let me deconstruct this:

• concerning my post you hyperlinked
  • i said for most of Day 2 i thought Shinki was town. again, that's a pretty gutsy move to make as scum. why wouldn't i leave my option open on his scumminess, rather than making a solid declaration?
    
  • seriously? who ISN'T trying to look pro-town? i say certain things, and refrain from saying others because they are in the town's best interest. this is hilarious.
    
  • i didn't offer the reasoning, DLE offered it, and i said it was legitimate. there's no way for us to verify if RL kept him from hammering or not, but it's not suspicious in and of itself that he missed it.
• Fakinha's quote you mentioned concerning me could easily be his trying to be subtle about knowing i'm innocent, but that's definitely WIFOM
  
• how does the post you referenced show distancing between DLE & myself?
  
• i also like how quickly you unvoted when DV called you out on voting me. if that's not scummy, i'm not sure you can make it more obvious.
• also, why does Kirby need to be here for you to make a case?

[LyingBrian]

You confirmed Shinki as town because you knew she was playing poorly. As IC you felt that you were responsible for the quality of the game for her, and subtly made attempts to let us know that we were making a mistake with her. You're trying to look pro town, but you're certainly not acting pro town. How much scumhunting did you do in days 1 and 2? And I'm not saying it's suspicious that he missed the hammer, I'm saying that it's suspicious that you brought it up again right before the night cycle. You seemed to be reinforcing the alibi of your scumteam partner.

I unvoted when DV posted because I've got a strong gut feeling that we're both town and that you're scum trying to deflect suspicion right back onto me, and I respect his opinion as a member of the town.

Kirby needs to see the case and hammer your scummy ass.

VOTE: LyingBrian

your supposed case against me is weak. i'm not sure what you read during the Night phase to make you so aggressive, but it definitely is a drastic change in your behavior. since the town is out of power roles, the only possible reasoning behind such a lopsided playstyle is that you are scum trying to lynch the strongest player. now, to address your post:

i'd like to hear some more of your thoughts on how i played Day 2. i was not subtle at all about my thinking Shinki was town, and that she was playing poorly. i'd like you to point out some of these "subtle hints". concerning my scumhunting, i pressed DV pretty hard, then backed off to focus my attention on Kirbyoshi. oh wait, he's the one you want to hammer me. coincidence? methinks not. btw, it takes 3 votes to lynch. just sayin'. in Day 1, i really didn't have that good a read on anyone, so i pressed the person i thought was acting the scummiest. how is this not scumhunting?

concerning my supposed defense, first i slightly attacked DLE in post#447, mostly b/c he said he was going to vote kirbyoshi, but not until after Shinki was lynched. if anything, him saying that was scummy, not being late. after that statement, DV started hypothesizing about Shinki being scum, and DLE (as her hypothetical partner) being late to let her self-hammer. since Shinki WASN'T scum, that whole theory was blown to bits, but that's beside the point. the point i was making in that post is that DV's logic in suspecting DLE was flawed as it was based on pure conjecture.

i actually just reread your ISO, Vel, and i'm getting a semi-aggressive townie read from you in Day 2. i do notice a trend w/ you, though. you vote, someone says something about your vote, then you unvote, and within a couple posts, vote again. seems scummy to me, but i think you're throwing us off track. i realize the main reasons i think you're scummy is because of your voting habits and your seeming love affair w/ what Kirbyoshi thinks. i'm connecting you to him b/c i think he's scum, but i'd rather watch you for a bit more before i make a deliberation.

[LyingBrian]

well since no one but DV has posted since my last post, this is a placeholder post until everyone else decides to give a f**k about this game

[LyingBrian]

so, i had it right all along... i went after both scum D2, just sayin'

[LyingBrian]

when i did my ISO of Velazanath, i actually got a townie vibe from him, which is why i didn't counter-vote. huge mistake, Vel.

DV, you played extremely well, especially for being a newbie.

Kirby, you just mostly limped along.

[LyingBrian]

No confirmation bias? He just can't be town!

i'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. can you explain this please?

Of course he's not. Velazanth is like the MVP of this game imo.

well, of course he is in YOUR eyes

[LyingBrian]

Thanks LyingBrian, but there was too much suspicion on me for my liking and I wasn't really helpful to the scumteam apart from staying alive.

You played really well, picking up on things I did which I didn't even think were scummy :O

as long as you learn WHY they're scummy, my job is done.

great, i just helped someone become better scum...

[LyingBrian]

yeah, i'd really like to hear from Velazanath about that vote. almost came off as "I don't care about the game anymore, I'm going to pick someone and vote for them".