Newbie 1368 - Will there ever be a title? (GAME OVER)
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Candillan Mafia Scum
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If that's the case, then you're already 100% confirmed scum from my pov, right?In post 11, Grimgroove wrote:Welcome back everyone, let's get this started again!
Candillan
I'm thinking one of the maffia from the previous game will be one again, and since it's not me, it must be him.
Tunnels ahoy!-
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Candillan Mafia Scum
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Basically, Edos accidentally put the link to the Scum QT in the role PM examples. Crand saw them, and knew we were scum. He told Edos about this, and then asked to be replaced because he can't scumhunt when he knows who the scum are. Edos posted saying that Crand was being replaced because of the debacle, which ended up unintentionally confirming his slot as town. Because of that, Edos figured it would be better to just restart the game.
...At least that's what I think happened.
Pedit:
Grim, why are you re-RVSing?
Syryana, you too. Unless you believe that your vote on me was a legitimate vote.-
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Candillan Mafia Scum
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Candillan Mafia Scum
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I agree that it's kinda odd that he would bring that up of all things, but that's the only time, if I recall correctly, that Raven ever adressed Crand.
I do agree with Syryana that your vote on him did seem fairly opportunistic, though.
Also, that's not jumping to his defense, that's simply stating a fact. There's a difference.-
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Candillan Mafia Scum
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Candillan Mafia Scum
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I have nothing on Grim. My vote was for reactions, and I feel as if he reacted well.
Syryana, call it gut for now.
I have a sneaking suspicion that your bout with Grim back there was town v town.
I also liked Homer's intro post. It made me feel good.
I agree that a Crand wagon is a good idea.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Crandaja-
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Candillan Mafia Scum
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Candillan Mafia Scum
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;-;
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Candillan Mafia Scum
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Candillan Mafia Scum
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Candillan Mafia Scum
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Candillan Mafia Scum
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Candillan Mafia Scum
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Candillan Mafia Scum
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BahahahahahahanoIn post 74, LnGrrrR wrote: I think Candillans meta is to start every game with a scummy statement. I don't like the "Oh no not a wagon again on me for a scummy RVS", because it tends to disarm thoughts of actual scumminess. Additionally, in ISO he looks fishy: he votes Crand, then unvotes three posts later because he doesn't always want to be the third vote on a wagon. Seems very self conscious about his votes, and if he thought it was good to put pressure on Crand, why take it off? If he is worried about L-2, he could just ask for no claims at this time.
Also, Candillan hasn't scumhunted at all. Just look at his ISO, no challenges, a /barn here or there...
VOTE: Candillan
The truth is that I have an aura of scumminess around me that makes me an easy wagon for scum to hop on and town to follow.
Meanwhile, you're commenting on my meta when I told you that I hate meta arguments. You're speaking in hypotheticals as to what I'd do, and I don't like that.
For the record, I am assembling reads. I currently read you and Crand as scummy.
Your push on me based on a meta argument doesn't make sense. Also, that isn't my scum meta, if you were to look at the last game. I don't like your case, and it seems as if you're pushing on me to make yourself seem active.
I'm not so vote-happy because then it gives my votes less impact when they're actually laid down. I'm not afraid of putting someone to L-2 or whatever, that was purely coincidence.
All in all, this case is bad, and you should feel bad.
VOTE: LnGrrrR
Other posts coming in a minute.-
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Candillan Mafia Scum
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Candillan Mafia Scum
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I'd read it so you can understand what we're referring to if we reference the other one.In post 75, homertve wrote:
Do you think I need to do it? Will it give me any information about this game?In post 74, LnGrrrR wrote:Homer, are you planning on reading the other game?
I wouldn't read it for meta though.-
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Candillan Mafia Scum
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ShaboooooooooIn post 56, shaboostein wrote:The great shaboostein has returned... stay tuned for an actual post.
And c'mon, its been like a day since the game started. Give a guy some slack-
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Candillan Mafia Scum
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For the record, I was pointing out that it was odd that Syryana posted all that about Grim then voted Crand. I didn't say it was scummy.
I don't feel as if I have enough of a feel on people to make a reads list yet, but soon, hopefully.
Grim, I'll echo Raven's question. What made you change your mind on LnGrrrR?-
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Candillan Mafia Scum
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It hurts to have a wagon on you because of an RVS vote, doesn't it. ;-;In post 84, Crandaja wrote:Guys it was an RVS joke vote. Was that not obvious? I have absolutely no reason to believe Raven is scum. In regards to my overly defensiveness. I was trying to be offensive towards Grim since I believe his deduction of me was really scummy. His attacks on me were very decisive yet he didn't do the research. It felt very scummy to me so I wanted to push it. That being said
VOTE: Grim
He is the only real scum read I have thus far.-
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Candillan Mafia Scum
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'twas a joke.In post 92, LnGrrrR wrote:
Remember that comment I made about excusing scumminess ahead of the fact? This is what Im talking about. "I can't help that I have a scummy aura, but Im town this time!"In post 85, Candillan wrote: Bahahahahahahano
The truth is that I have an aura of scumminess around me that makes me an easy wagon for scum to hop on and town to follow.
You don't have to start, but don't expect me to take your case seriously.
So because you don't like it I should stop then? Also, could you point out to me where you mentioned this dislike of meta arguments?Meanwhile, you're commenting on my meta when I told you that I hate meta arguments. You're speaking in hypotheticals as to what I'd do, and I don't like that.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 7#p4925707 <--- That's one example.
I'm saying that even if you were to go from how I was playing last game, your case is inaccurate. Your case doesn't match up to the "scum meta" you have.
I thought you disliked discussing meta, yet here you are doing it. As far as your "scum meta", you also started out last game with the "oh no not a wagon on me for RVS comments!". What do you think is the difference between your scum and town meta?Your push on me based on a meta argument doesn't make sense. Also, that isn't my scum meta, if you were to look at the last game. I don't like your case, and it seems as if you're pushing on me to make yourself seem active.
The difference lies in how I want to play the game. I change how I play from game to game, not from scum to town.
I unvoted because it was a vote for pressure and a vote for reactions. When I had gotten both, I unvoted.
If you weren't vote happy, why vote him in the first place? If you don't care about putting someone to L-2, why did you unvote?I'm not so vote-happy because then it gives my votes less impact when they're actually laid down. I'm not afraid of putting someone to L-2 or whatever, that was purely coincidence.
So, all in all, this isn't scum behavior, nor is it typical of my playstyle. I don't think your case has any foundation considering you base it on meta, and I don't live up to a meta.-
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Candillan Mafia Scum
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I agree.In post 91, Crandaja wrote:I cannot get a read on Shaboo or Rach if they don't post anything which is making this pretty hard to contribute to.
And yes... Yes it does.-
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I didn't say that this game, and the only thing close to it was a joke.
Yes, I was 'throwing my vote around', but I wasn't known to have a habit of doing that. That's why I like to defy my 'meta'. Crand took my vote seriously because I wasn't known to do that often, and therefore likely assumed it was a serious vote. (which is was, but not because it was an actual scum accusation. It was for pressure. I saw a good opportunity, and I took it.)
My Grim vote, however, was RVS. You can't count that.
I didn't say I was clearing him as town. I'm still reading him. To be honest, the case on him is dependent on Raven being scum, as the whole case revolves around his RVS vote on Raven seeming suspicious. You can't call it scummy unless Raven is scum, as it's an associative tell.
I feel as if that's hit a sort of a dead end, as we don't know if either one is scum. If you're recommending a Crand flip because it'll be helpful, that's a different story. I haven't seen anyone say that yet, so I feel like people actually think he's scummy. Yet, on the other hand, I have seen no one challenge Raven.
The case is flawed, and thus I'm not pushing it.-
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Candillan Mafia Scum
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Yes.In post 99, LnGrrrR wrote:
So the "aura of scumminess" and "easy wagon" lines from post 85 were jokes too?In post 96, Candillan wrote:I didn't say that this game, and the only thing close to it was a joke.
I didn't say "Oh no an RVS wagon" this game, did I? I said that I'm not vote-happy so that you all would take my votes seriously. It seems to have worked.
I said nothing about your voting in regards to your meta, only the "Oh no an RVS wagon!" comments.Yes, I was 'throwing my vote around', but I wasn't known to have a habit of doing that. That's why I like to defy my 'meta'.
You yourself said you werent vote happy but you were acting vote happy.
To each their own.
To me, one post from Crand doesn't feel like you provided a lot of pressure.Crand took my vote seriously because I wasn't known to do that often, and therefore likely assumed it was a serious vote. (which is was, but not because it was an actual scum accusation. It was for pressure. I saw a good opportunity, and I took it.)
Because I don't see Raven as scummy? Also, it's bad practice to accuse your buddy of being scum.
Could you please explain this further? Also, if his case depends on Raven being scum, why not put pressure on Raven?I didn't say I was clearing him as town. I'm still reading him. To be honest, the case on him is dependent on Raven being scum, as the whole case revolves around his RVS vote on Raven seeming suspicious. You can't call it scummy unless Raven is scum, as it's an associative tell.
Basically, Grim accused Crand of doing something in his scum QT with Raven. That implies the two of them are scum. He also said that Crand's reason for RVSing Raven seemed unnatural. I see that as meaning that it seemed forced, which implies Raven being scum.-
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Candillan Mafia Scum
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Phonepost because I'm still in class but
I tell you all that I don't like meta cases because of people like me. I manipulate my meta in order to baffle and confuse people. That in of itself does not weigh on my alignment. I am town though. It's a play style choice, not a tell.
I'm not bussing Shaboo, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. Thanks for reminding me, though, I forgot to vote him for not posting.
VOTE: Shaboostein
More later.-
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Candillan Mafia Scum
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I adressed this in my previous post. My meta is anti-meta, as I am consciously playing differently every game. Relying on meta won't be helpful, and I won't take it seriously. I used myself as an example, but I believe that meta arguments in general are total garbage.In post 112, Grimgroove wrote:So I IC'd Candillan for today, the most active player in ammount of posts, so he gives you most to work with. Only thing I'll be able to do before the weekend I'm afraid. All in all I'd have to agree with LnGrrrR's case against him. Maybe not in LnGrrrR's first post, which was mainly a good thing because it showed more involvement from LnGrrrR again, but in the discussion following it he raised some good points. What I mainly don't like is that Candillan refuses any meta-arguments to be used again him, but in a devious way tries to use that meta to his advantage several times (which I'll try to show here). Claiming you consciously play differently every game so that your meta is useless is actually a meta-argument in itself. MAybe I should clarify further, but I think claiming you have "no meta", is making a statement about your meta and trying to use it as an argument in your advantage. I find it worrysome that Candillan is so involved with his meta, definitely for someone who claims to not have one.
...What? I don't recall those two ever talking to each other. I didn't say I remember all people's interactions, and I wouldn't say so. I just don't recall them ever interacting aside from that one post.
What is the "if I recall correctly"-bit supposed to mean? How would you recall something like that? Granted, there wasn't much activity going on in "Title Pending", but to assume you remember all people's interactions seems strange, and pretending to do so seems unnaturally thoughtful.In post 29, Candillan wrote:I agree that it's kinda odd that he would bring that up of all things, but that's the only time, if I recall correctly, that Raven ever adressed Crand.
I do agree with Syryana that your vote on him did seem fairly opportunistic, though.
Also, that's not jumping to his defense, that's simply stating a fact. There's a difference.
Nope, I can't think of any.
Could you give me an example of when re-RVSing would not be fine?In post 24, Candillan wrote:Alright, that's fine then.
I also adressed this in my last post. It isn't bussing, it's giving him the benefit of the doubt. I'm not gonna go super-offensive on him when he says that he's gonna post. I'm giving him air to breathe. It's a friendly game, either way. Why am I not allowed to be friendly with other players?
How have you not gave Shaboostein a lot of slack? all you did was call his name a couple of times. Careful bussing?In post 57, Candillan wrote:The Great Shaboostein...
That has a nice ring to it.
I'd give you more slack if you hadn't posted in the QT rather than here. >_>
I called his name the last time to point out the fact that he //still// hadn't posted. He said he was going to do so later that day, and I think it's been two days later.
Yeah, it's OMGUS. Sue me. My posting was for pressure, as everything else I've been doing has been. Reaction testing is a powerful thing, Grim. It helps you assemble reads.
Surprised nobody called him out on this before, but isn't this the most blatant OMGUS in the game(s) so far? LnGrrrR had never even been mentioned by Candillan before this, and now he's suddenly on his scum-reads, based on LngRrrR using meta for a case. Coming out of a game with all of us in it that got cancelled, I think it's only natural to do so. Syryana did the same with me, I did the same with LnGrrrR. Yet Syryana is Candillan's town read.In post 85, Candillan wrote: Bahahahahahahano
The truth is that I have an aura of scumminess around me that makes me an easy wagon for scum to hop on and town to follow.
Meanwhile, you're commenting on my meta when I told you that I hate meta arguments. You're speaking in hypotheticals as to what I'd do, and I don't like that.
For the record, I am assembling reads. I currently read you and Crand as scummy.
Your push on me based on a meta argument doesn't make sense. Also, that isn't my scum meta, if you were to look at the last game. I don't like your case, and it seems as if you're pushing on me to make yourself seem active.
I'm not so vote-happy because then it gives my votes less impact when they're actually laid down. I'm not afraid of putting someone to L-2 or whatever, that was purely coincidence.
All in all, this case is bad, and you should feel bad.
VOTE: LnGrrrR
Other posts coming in a minute.
I am seriously trying to gather reads, but I've been terrible at it this time around. I do seriously see Homer and Syryana as townie, though. I was leaning town on you, but your jumping on this case is making me doubt that somewhat. It seems a wee bit too convenient.
Also, if you really saw this as being so scummy, why aren't you voting me?
Okay.
Urgh. I like a good laugh, but people blaming having said weird things on "joking" are always scummy in my book.In post 93, Candillan wrote: 'twas a joke.
Yes, it is useful for me to use, not for you all. By you all using my meta to ascertain my alignment in this game, I am able to use that examination to make you all think certain things of me when I really am pulling the wool over your eyes.
"I wasn't known to do that often" = meta-argument. And to be perfectly honest, I never associated you with someone who doesn't like voting or changing votes all the time. Anyway, I don't like the argument in the quote above, hard to put my finger on it but the logical conclusion that Crandaja took your vote seriously (did he?) because of your meta (did he?) doesn't really add up. And even if it does, it goes to show that meta IS useful and you are willing to use it in your gaming strategy.Crand took my vote seriously because I wasn't known to do that often, and therefore likely assumed it was a serious vote. (which is was, but not because it was an actual scum accusation. It was for pressure. I saw a good opportunity, and I took it.)
I assumed Crand took my vote seriously. It could be otherwise. I don't exactly know, and most likely won't ever know for sure.
Meta is a natural tell for people. If all of a sudden someone you know started acting differently, you'd notice. It wouldn't be because you researched their behavioral patterns consciously, but because it was subconscious. You all have an established meta on me, and by me defying that meta I am putting myself at an advantage. This allows me to pull off gambits and reaction tests more efficiently.
I think that's enough droning on about my beliefs on meta, so moving on...
I'm buddying Raven. Not scumbuddies, but shameless sheeping and things of the like. LnGrrrR asked me why /I/ wasn't putting pressure on Raven, and I'm assuming he wanted me to put pressure on her. (Meanwhile, may I note how he didn't pressure her at all after I said that I wouldn't? It seems like he doesn't believe the associative tell on Crand/Raven, otherwise he would be pushing on them rather than a meta argument on me.)
Could you clarify the second part of that statement? Who would be the buddy and who would be doing the accusing in this case?Because I don't see Raven as scummy? Also, it's bad practice to accuse your buddy of being scum.
tl;dr meta is dumb and I'm using mine to experiment on you all.
(Man, half of this post belongs in the Mafia Discussion Forum.)-
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Candillan Mafia Scum
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In post 53, Candillan wrote: Cmon, Shaboo ;-;-
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This.In post 131, Crandaja wrote:lack of Shaboo/Rach lowers my motivation to play considerably.
I'm noticing an around-the-board lack of activity/enthusiasm in this game, and it's irritating.-
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This post's logic doesn't make sense. He was scum last game, and because he's acting the same way this time, he's town? That makes zero sense.In post 141, LnGrrrR wrote:
Yes, but he sounded very townie last game. Everyone pretty much thought he was town. (And it likely would've come back to bite him, as people would've wondered why he wasn't getting NK'd.In post 138, Ravenpaw wrote:But Grim was scum last time.-
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In post 117, Edosurist wrote:
Grimgroove is V/LA until Sunday evening.
So am I, but Bitmap should be here in case something arises.-
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If anything, that would make this a null tell, would it not? He could have drawn scum, and he could just be acting the same way. For you to give him townie points for doing the same thing he was doing as scum is nonsensical.In post 148, LnGrrrR wrote:
He was acting town last game. Did anyone think he was scum last game? No, because he acted town. He is acting town here so I give him townie points. Should I only give him town points if he acts scummy?In post 142, Candillan wrote:
This post's logic doesn't make sense. He was scum last game, and because he's acting the same way this time, he's town? That makes zero sense.In post 141, LnGrrrR wrote:
Yes, but he sounded very townie last game. Everyone pretty much thought he was town. (And it likely would've come back to bite him, as people would've wondered why he wasn't getting NK'd.In post 138, Ravenpaw wrote:But Grim was scum last time.
For the record, I thought he was scum last game.-
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Some things that I notice are the things you just stated there. Post amounts, their lengths, vote hopping, lurking, and a few other things I'm forgetting at the moment.In post 152, Grimgroove wrote: How do you consider your playstyle here different from the one in the Title Pending game. If it's conscious, you should be able to explain the differences you have applied when this topic opened.
What variables do you see when it comes to meta? I mean, maybe you could change some obvious things, like amount of posts and their length, votehopping or not, but wouldn't you agree that when it comes to reacting to what other people say in quite constant?
And even if it is useless in your case, why does that make it useless in any other case? I see in your latest conversation you're discussing my meta from Title Pending quite in depth. Why bother if it doesn't mean anything?
By the way, what my meta is concerned, I think I already said this before: I'll be playing the same way as before. As long as I have the time to do so, I will always play like this, scum or town. But these are just the big lines. I'm not sure if unconciously, there could be some differences in the way I post or put up argumentations. But that's mainly your job to find out about.
I'm saying that if I can do it so easily, then who says other people can't/won't do it, too?
My problem with LnGrrrR's read on you is the logic of the matter. The statement in itself doesn't make sense.
Reaction testing.
Why did you ask about my re-RVS? How does it fit in with the scumhunt?
Nope, I can't think of any.
Could you give me an example of when re-RVSing would not be fine?In post 24, Candillan wrote:Alright, that's fine then.
The same thing happened in Newbie 1335 when I wasn't pressuring A_Stone very much, and Maenara called me out on it. I'm just not an aggressive player.
This has got nothing to do with friendliness. Why bring up such an emotional argument? I don't think shaboostein would start crying himself to sleep at night just because you'd vote him. I find the interchange between the two of you very odd. An associative tell is what I see.I also adressed this in my last post. It isn't bussing, it's giving him the benefit of the doubt. I'm not gonna go super-offensive on him when he says that he's gonna post. I'm giving him air to breathe. It's a friendly game, either way. Why am I not allowed to be friendly with other players?
The OMGUS was a reaction test. I don't think I should be sued for it. I broke his points down one by one. They were scumhunting, but I couldn't tell if it was genuine or fake.
So anyone who's been on your case automatically no longer leans town. That's a whole lot of OMGUS right there, and yes, I think you should be sued for it. LnGrrrR put forward some reasonable arguments against you, yet instead of seeing the merit in them you simply call his attack on you scummy. I agree with him, and you call me scummy. How is me attacking you convenient for me?Yeah, it's OMGUS. Sue me.My posting was for pressure, as everything else I've been doing has been. Reaction testing is a powerful thing, Grim. It helps you assemble reads.
I am seriously trying to gather reads, but I've been terrible at it this time around. I do seriously see Homer and Syryana as townie, though. I was leaning town on you, but your jumping on this case is making me doubt that somewhat. It seems a wee bit too convenient.
And what does the thing in bold have to do with anything? Was you calling LnGrrrR scummy simply a reaction test? Is that what you're saying? How do you think he reacted then?
Your sheeping of the case seemed opportunistic. That, I did actually find scummy.
The bolded was..... actually I dunno. Lemme check, I'll make a post after this.
So Shaboo is probably getting replaced. Does your scumread on him still stand? Who is the other person? Crand?
You calling me out? You're in my top 3 scumreads now, so first reason why I didn't vote you is because there are alternatives. It's not as if I'm not voting. What scummy reasons would you see for me not voting for you, that would make this question more than simply showing your defiance? And would me adding a vote to my arguments have changed your reaction to them?Also, if you really saw this as being so scummy, why aren't you voting me?
Yes, it would change my view on it. I found it about as odd as Syryana's post where he stated a bunch of reasons why you're scummy, then voted Crand. It didn't line up.
It was more of the type of humor Thor uses. At least, that's the closest way to describe it.
As far as jokes go, it wasn't even really funny as in "hahaha"-funny. I don't think you would think it "haha"-funny either. The only thing that makes it a joke is that it is not sincere. But that's not enough for a joke. It is enough for a scummy statement.
Okay.
Urgh. I like a good laugh, but people blaming having said weird things on "joking" are always scummy in my book.In post 93, Candillan wrote: 'twas a joke.
Yeah, and it makes it easier for me to play as scum in the future, as people won't have meta on me.
Why would you want to do that as town? In that case scum would already know who you are, so you'd only be fooling town.
Yes, it is useful for me to use, not for you all. By you all using my meta to ascertain my alignment in this game, I am able to use that examination to make you all think certain things of me when I really am pulling the wool over your eyes.
"I wasn't known to do that often" = meta-argument. And to be perfectly honest, I never associated you with someone who doesn't like voting or changing votes all the time. Anyway, I don't like the argument in the quote above, hard to put my finger on it but the logical conclusion that Crandaja took your vote seriously (did he?) because of your meta (did he?) doesn't really add up. And even if it does, it goes to show that meta IS useful and you are willing to use it in your gaming strategy.Crand took my vote seriously because I wasn't known to do that often, and therefore likely assumed it was a serious vote. (which is was, but not because it was an actual scum accusation. It was for pressure. I saw a good opportunity, and I took it.)
This is just an overarching plan of mine for the long term. It's also a way for me to try out different playstyles and see what works best.
Now, brb, time to look for what I meant with that bolded part...
PEDIT:
@Raven, Whoops, forgot to post that. D:
He's Null leaning Scum. His case on me was scumhunting, which is good, but his point on Grim doesn't make sense.
@LnGrrrR, one minute lemme respond to that.
More posts every time I press submit I cry ;~;-
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WIFOM is the enemy, indeed. I wouldn't trust him for doing the same thing that he did as scum, though. If he fooled you all, then shouldn't you be more wary of him this time around? You seem quick to call him town, and I don't like it.In post 154, LnGrrrR wrote:
No, because that's how you end up living in WIFOMland. I give town points to townie actions. If he ends up being super townie and lives to D3, then I will start acting suspicious. If he slips up, then I will get suspicious. Anything else is WIFOMy.In post 150, Candillan wrote: If anything, that would make this a null tell, would it not? He could have drawn scum, and he could just be acting the same way. For you to give him townie points for doing the same thing he was doing as scum is nonsensical.
For the record, I thought he was scum last game.
Acting town is not a "null" tell.
Pedit:
Pedit is a Preview Edit, where you press submit and it says "At least one new post has been made to this topic. You may wish to review your post in light of this." and it gives you a chance to revise your post.-
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Because it could be bussing his partner for towncred?In post 179, Grimgroove wrote:
PS: This post gave me massive scumvibes. Hard to put my finger on why it does, but I'll try to elaborate later.In post 177, LnGrrrR wrote:Grim, I think the yes vs yep argument was pretty weak too, but it was coming soon after RVS and it was an attempt to generate discussion/content, which is why I don't see it as that scummy. If you had pulled that argument now that we have decent data to go through I would've found it much worse.
More posts in a minute, phoneposting is bleh.-
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So Grim could be town or scum, and you're pretty much hoping he's town with the knowledge that he could be pulling the wool over your eyes easily? Don't wifom him to scum, just don't be so quick to call him town.In post 186, LnGrrrR wrote:@Raven, the "last time" was a throwaway line. Grim felt townie to me last game when he wasn't, he feels townie to me this game. He might be scum, he might not, but Im not going to tr to WIFOM him as scum.
You can't act super townie as scum without consequences. By D3, people would've been wondering why our "obvtown" player somehow didnt get NK'd two nights in a row.
Besides the yep vs yes argument, which felt extremely forced and somewhat scummy, Grim has been acting in a very townie way for the reasons listed above. (I'm willing to accept Grims yes vs yep argument as non-scummy because a) I believed him when he stated he felt like there was a legitimate difference between the two; the explanation didnt feel forced even if the original "gotcha" was, and b) he pointed out last game that he started a semi-dumb conversation to get out of RVS (the "color" thing with Rach) which mirrors the forced arguments in this game early.)
What if he isn't night killed so scum can pin him as scum in LyLo? That's what scum did with me in 1335, because I could easily be pinned as scum.
Also, self meta is also dumb. Don't trust that. Especially when the game he also did it in was a scum game. >_>-
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Hard to say. As I've stated before, I've been having a tough time of assembling reads this game.In post 189, Grimgroove wrote:What is your read on me?-
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How am I "walking it back"? I'm saying that I don't have a good read on anyone in this game. (Aside from Homer and Syryana, of course.) All the rest of you are null, and I'm having trouble discerning which two are scum. How is that scummy?
Yes, but that doesn't address what I was saying. My point is that it's odd that you'd write him off as town so early when he's been doing the same things he did as scum. You shouldn't do that.
If you think I'm scum, who would be my partner?
Pedit:
Oh, no, it was that I was an easy wagon in that game. They kept me alive to wagon me to death in LyLo.
Similar situation, though. It was a "how come he's still alive?" situation at its fundamentals.
Also, I was town that game.
Are you really going to only suspect Grim if he gets to D3 and is still alive?-
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lolnopeIn post 194, LnGrrrR wrote: You definitely implied in post 187 that Grim and I were scum. If you don't want others to question your town/null/scum tells, don't imply scumminess.
I was saying that //you// were bussing //your// partner for towncred. (Crand) Nice take on it saying that Grim was bussing you, though.
Either way, I was saying that might be Grim's reason for finding that scummy, not my thoughts.
I'll respond to the other stuff in a sec.-
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Well, if you see me as scummy, you must be looking at who I'm interacting with. That's how you would find my buddy.LnGrrrR wrote:EBWODP: Re the "who is my partner" question, I have no idea. I am not going to bother looking heavily at those sorts of interactions until we get a flip.
Yes, but the reason you're seeing him as town is because he's doing things that seem townie. But,In post 194, LnGrrrR wrote:Candy, I never said I wouldn't consider Grim as scum if he says something that strikes me as scum. Feel free to point out where I said that.
Grim is actin townie to me, therefore, he goes in my "town" pile. If he says/ does something scummy, then I will start shifting him to my scum pile. It's not that hard to figure out.
If Grim acts super townie, but somehow doesn't get NK'd, I will start to wonder why. Your case is completely different. You WERE scummy, so mafia leaving you alive makes sense. If Grim acts townie throughout the game, its goin to be hard to generate a mislynch off of him if he isn't seen as scummy. In fact, if anything I would think an "obvtown" would be an obvious early NK. (And yes, if Grim is obvtown and lives to D3, there's a bit of WIFOM in determining the reason behind it, but I will worry about D3 when we get there.)he did the same thing as scum.For you to base your townread on him from something that he did when he was scum doesn't make any sense, even if it was a townie thing he did.-
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Oh, I know what you're talking about. The "I was town that game".
I was letting him know that I was town in 1335, to give him perspective. Would it have been different if I had said "I was town that game, too."?
Funny call on Grim, I missed it.
I am town, Syryana. What are the odds of me/Grim being scum together twice in a row?
1. I personally don't find our interactions suspicious.
2. Those odds are extremely low.
3. I'm still town.
Why have I been having trouble producing reads this game? It's because I'm trying to look at interactions, and I'm seeing too many potential scumteams to be healthy.
Why did you vote me on the "slip", but not Grim?
Why do you like LnGrrrR? All I see in that post where you said you liked him is him subtly buddying you.
If you see self-meta as dumb, why didn't you pressure Grim on that?
UNVOTE:
Forgot I was still voting Shaboo. I think he's being replaced, as he hasn't posted yet. He also has posted in other games, though~
If I was to make a reads list at the moment, it would look like this:
TOWN
Syryana/Homer
Raven
LnGrrrR/Crand/Grim
SCUM
Shaboo and Rach haven't posted nearly enough for me to get a read on them.-
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I did find something. Not sure if it's what he found, though.
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No, I think it's what I pointed out.In post 203, Grimgroove wrote:I find the "of course" part in Candillan calling Homer and Syryana town odd. There's very little that is evident about the statement, unless speaking from the perspective of scum knowing who's town.
Not calling this a slip myself, but I could imagine Syryana's talking about this?
I said "Also, I was town that game."
While I said that to give LnGrrrR perspective on my point, Syryana probably saw that as "I was town that game" implying I'm not town this game.-
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No, I called the two of them town earlier this game because the way they've been posting rings town to me.In post 203, Grimgroove wrote:I find the "of course" part in Candillan calling Homer and Syryana town odd. There's very little that is evident about the statement, unless speaking from the perspective of scum knowing who's town.
Not calling this a slip myself, but I could imagine Syryana's talking about this?
It's not just "him posting townie", it's "him posting the same way he was posting last game". There are different ways to act townie, LnGrrrR.LnGrrrR wrote:Candi, given the logic displayed above, what could Grim post that could make him look townie?
Grim posts scummy: He's posting scummy! He's scum!
Grim posts townie: He's posting townie, which he did when he was scum! He's scum!
See the problem with that logic?
pedit:Syryana wrote:In post 199, Candillan wrote:Oh, I know what you're talking about. The "I was town that game".
I was letting him know that I was town in 1335, to give him perspective. Would it have been different if I had said "I was town that game, too."?
Yes, it would have. You don't get town points for finding your own scumslip!
Okay, I understand. And I wasn't trying to get town points, I was trying to explain my wording.
Funny call on Grim, I missed it.
Oh, did you find that one too?
I thought I did, but I realized I just misread the quote. >_>
I am town, Syryana. What are the odds of me/Grim being scum together twice in a row?
1. I personally don't find our interactions suspicious.
2. Those odds are extremely low.
3. I'm still town.
This is quite possibly the most awful rebuttal I've ever seen. Sorry, but good lord. Of course you don't find the interactions between the two of you suspicious. Appeal to probability confirms your alignment.
Yeah, it was awful. I'm running on two hours of sleep in the past forty-eight hours, and I'm tired. I don't find it suspicious because I know I'm town. Probability was a dumb thing to use, but cmon, the odds are low. Do you find our interactions suspicious?
Why have I been having trouble producing reads this game? It's because I'm trying to look at interactions, and I'm seeing too many potential scumteams to be healthy.
Or you're scum, and you're not wanting to call any of us town because you need to mislynch people. Besides, finding teams is a complete waste of time on Day 1.
I'm not trying to do that. Looking at interactions is the basis of scumhunting, right? That was the basis of the case on Crand, and it's what Thor taught me in 1335.
Why did you vote me on the "slip", but not Grim?
I flipped a coin.
Better than throwing darts at our names. (Re: 1335)
Why do you like LnGrrrR? All I see in that post where you said you liked him is him subtly buddying you.
Because his posts come from a town mindset.
And mine aren't? How do you know they come from a town mindset?
If you see self-meta as dumb, why didn't you pressure Grim on that?
It probably got lost in the walls or I wasn't paying attention.
Oh. Now that you know/realize, will you push him on that?
UNVOTE:
Forgot I was still voting Shaboo. I think he's being replaced, as he hasn't posted yet. He also has posted in other games, though~
If I was to make a reads list at the moment, it would look like this:
TOWN
Syryana/Homer
Raven
LnGrrrR/Crand/Grim
SCUM
I forgot to ask, why are me and homer town again?
Your posts ring town. You did ask this earlier, and I think I responded?
Shaboo and Rach haven't posted nearly enough for me to get a read on them.
I'll read that in a few minutes.-
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAIn post 214, Edosurist wrote:Candillan wrote:Homer, right off the bat...Not sure if anybody else read that the same way I did...
Wow, that's hilarious-
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Wait, first, this.In post 222, Syryana wrote: If you buddied me any harder...
It isn't buddying. It's a read. I read you as town. That comes with a lack of suspicion angled your way with an added hint of friendliness for not being scum. Sorry if that doesn't float your boat.
@Grim on a similar topic, it's hard to buddy someone when they aren't here, lol.
Pedit:
But isn't the Amished tell when you condemn one or more of the actions made by your predecessor? Though reading through it, he was just talking about all the discussions thus far, so I guess it's fair.-
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okay so I was looking at this for a good fifteen minutes trying to figure out what I saw in this and I honestly have no ideaIn post 180, Grimgroove wrote: Why is it a bad thing to pressure you? If you're town, pressure brings out the town in you. There's no need to be so sensitive to someone trying to pressure you.
Starting from the second sentence you're dismissing what I said with mere hollow phrases but you did not prove that my argument does not make sense. It does. I would not have used the scumtell-approach if I would know for a fact it's not true, because I'd know well enough that there'd be the theoretical possibility it would come bite me in the ass in case I did. It makes absolutely no sense to do this as scum: the risk of it flying back into my face far outweighs the supposed benefit of pressuring someone you know is town based on a false argument. If you know it's a false argument, you know the pressure is not going to ammount to anything. I didn't know it was a false argument, and therefore used it until shown otherwise.
though I really do promise I saw something earlier.-
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