Newbie 1495 (DAY 4) - The One where Everyone got Murdered

[Wolfy]

VOTE: Moratorium

clearly bussing

[Wolfy]

I've played the game a few times with family/friends in real life.
This is my second forum game... first one was last week and rather short...

Don't understand the huntsman/ruby reference - I come from a civilised country

[Wolfy]

VOTE: Wolfy

as said above for a reason, third try.... sorry

seems pretty determined for a

random

vote - very scummy behaviour
Maybe scum don't get a Preview button?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: thatguy2

[Wolfy]

Votecount 1.1

1

2

3

4

5

Moratorium [2]:

Wolfy, HashtagSELFIE

Wolfy [2]:

Malakittens, thatguy2

HashtagSELFIE [1]:

Xayzeck

Not Voting [3]:

tuby68, Mafia Moderator, Moratorium, Shinobi

With 9 alive it takes

5

to lynch[/i]

Deadline on the 23^rdApril at 1700 BST ((expired on 2014-04-23 17:00:00))

Mod:

I unvoted Moratorium and voted thatguy2 (post #21)

[Wolfy]

Are we still in RVS?
How do I tell?
How do we get out?

My only other game we didn't get out of RVS (accidental RVS lynch on page 2) and I died night 1 so I have no experience of this.

Question for the IC and SEs...

If the IC in a Newbie game is a bit on the quiet side, is that usually an indication that they're scum?

VOTE: Malakittens

[Wolfy]

Are we still in RVS?
How do I tell?
How do we get out?

We're out.

How? Why? All the votes I see are still random - including (especially) yours
Are we out because you say we're out?
Are we out because your random vote has more value than our random votes?

I don't get it - please explain.

Your logic for the vote on Xayzeck doesn't hold up - he's scum because of a

random

vote in this game which is different to how he

randomly

voted in other games.
Maybe you and I have different definitions of

random

...

[Wolfy]

...Post #4 in this game, the first player post, was not random.

Then clearly post #5 wasn't random either as it was based on information from post #4.

OK - I could accept the idea that the RVS is only random in terms of the order people happen to post.
I still think Xayzeck is allowed to change his mind without it necessarily indicating scum - that's what I've just done

Were you unlucky with your role this time?
Hope you get your favourite next time.

[Wolfy]

Were you unlucky with your role this time?
Hope you get your favourite next time.

This is called rolefishing, and a rather egregious example of it.

No, it's called having a bit of fun
(nice word egregious - I can choose to take a positive meaning of it)

FoS: Wolfy

Nice! I now feel really encouraged to participate on this site, ask my own questions and offer my own opinions.
If I'm doing this wrong, help me, teach me - don't insult me.

How interested are you in knowing whether I'm vanilla?

Was very interested. I engaged with you to get responses so I could make my mind up.

[Wolfy]

It's not an insult. Unless there's some weird British meaning for FoS that I'm not aware of.

Ah! Maybe weird, not exclusively British. On other sites (not mafia) I've been on it stands for Full of Shit.
I apologise for accusing you of insulting me - I shall try harder in future to assume the best rather than jump to the wrong conclusion.

2) Rolefishing is anti-town, as scum is attempting to expose power roles to be night-killed and increase their chances of winning. Asking people to claim or reveal, particularly on Day 1, is generally seen as helpful to scum, and therefore frowned upon.

Thank you for the lesson. I can see how that would work. I will bear that in mind in future.

I'm not sure how to categorize your reaction yet.

Put it in the dumb newbie category.

[Wolfy]

I can't pinpoint why, but I dislike everything about this post. I don't know what it is, it just reads wrong.

Moratorium says FoS Wolfie (meaning Finger of Suspicion.)
I assume it means Full of Shit and accuse him of insulting me.
He clarifies.
I apologise.
That's how life works with misunderstandings

It comes across very apologetic in the sense of let's forget about this and not bring attention to myself or what I have wrote

Please explain exactly how I am not bringing attention to myself by doing this?

I don't like it. I don't like it at all.

what's not to get? what's not to like?

[Wolfy]

I'm not mafia

I'll need a bit of convincing.
If you're not, who do you think is and why?

Unfortunately I'm reading town on everybody who is contributing - I suspect more a fault with my reads than any real belief that the lurkers are scum.

If we mislynch on a lurker is that such a terrible thing?
[runs for cover]

VOTE: Mafia Moderator

[Wolfy]

I'm not.
"If"
It's taken as read that if he's scum it wouldn't be a terrible thing for town.

[Wolfy]

Ok – for what little it’s worth…

Leaning town

BlueBloodedToffee

– it looks, from my very limited experience, like active scum hunting from a newbie. If he was an experienced player I might not be reading it so strong.

Moratorium

– looks like active scum hunting. Putting pressure on people (Xayzeck, BBT) and getting reactions. He is an experienced player though so he could just be fooling a dumbass like me… that’s why it’s only leaning.

Shinobi

– looks like active scum hunting to me. Lots of pro town questioning and trying to get people working together.

No read

HashtagSELFIE

thatguy2

Leaning scum

Malakittens

– Nothing specifically scummy – just not enough pro town activity. I expect (and have seen in games read through) much more pro town activity from the IC when they are town. Need to find some time to look through some of Mala’s games.

Xayzeck

– was very active defending himself when Mora was pushing. Not a lot of other pro-town activity. Nothing definite – this is mostly a gut feel.

Mafia Moderator

– gut feel. He doesn’t post anything useful to town.

Not sure I've added any real value here but it's probably a worthwhile exercise for everybody to go through.

[Wolfy]

When someone gets lynched, do we immediately move to night or is there an opportunity for discussion afterwards? Does the day still last 2 weeks?

I think between the hammer vote and the mod doing the votecount we can talk (twilight)
Once the mod did votecount the thread got locked in the other game I played.

[Wolfy]

There's so many posts. I don't have any FOS's either. I'm just not mafia; if you lynch me you'll find you lynched the wrong person. My role is cop. Doc, now protect me as my role is out.

I know it's already been said, but wow!
No need to claim there - you were under no immediate threat.

BTW, as far as I understand it there's only a 50% chance that there is doc.
As BBT said - nobody else should be claiming or counter-claiming

[Wolfy]

UNVOTE:

Taking the claim at face value without evidence to the contrary.

More reading and thinking to do...

[Wolfy]

UNVOTE:

Taking the claim at face value without evidence to the contrary.

More reading and thinking to do...

It's going to be difficult to disprove his claim, I still can't quite believe it. I really want to see his reasoning behind that claim.

If we don't have a doctor, he is as good as dead. If we do have a doctor, it makes an easy kill for the scum because it's obvious what the doctor has to do.

yes - agreed - cop dead or easy scum kill with a chance of hitting doc... of course even if we don't know, scum now do know if we have a doctor or not.
Was a very bad move.

[Wolfy]

Probably because I'm naive but the logic I applied was (based on the assumption that the cop claim is true):

1.

We have a doctor

There is therefore a roleblocker who would block the cop
Mafia would target another townie (with a chance of getting doc)

or

2.

We don't have doctor

Mafia target cop and he dies night 1

The Mafia know which one of these cases is true.
Happy to have some more lessons
I am certainly not claiming to be an expert here.

[Wolfy]

given the real cop does cc

given that any pr does chose to cc, the fakeclaim would get called immediately

from my experience, it's probably one of those roles you don't want to claim if you're trying to avoid a cc.

I'm totally lost on this.
I cannot imagine counter claiming a fake cop claim on day 1 under any circumstances - that's if I was the real cop or if I had a role that meant I knew there couldn't be a cop.
Why would anybody ever cc this on day 1? What would be the point?

[Wolfy]

OK - I get it. Totally pointless debate then. There would never be a counter claim except by another newbie making a mistake.
Nice distraction.

Getting real, I think most of us

believe

that MM made a newbie mistake under pressure.
Only the scum and the possible doc

know

anything - the rest of us have to go with what we believe.

I believe that Xayzeck is trying to distract town.

VOTE: Xayzeck

[Wolfy]

distract town from what exactly?

from scum reading you...

[Wolfy]

Fake cop claims are garunteed to have a CC I believe, so if he is newbscum trying to fakeclaim he is either really dumb, or has really big balls because he's willing to bet nobody will CC, and that's highly unlikely.

not really though

what exactly have i done to distract town from scumreading me?

..and we just established that a fake cop claim would

never

be CCd - but you said it was

guaranteed

.

I also notice that since I gave a scum read on you yesterday...

Xayzeck – was very active defending himself when Mora was pushing. Not a lot of other pro-town activity.

...your attempts at pro town activity has gone back up. It just doesn't come across as pro-town to me (even though I agree that MMs claim is not fake)

[Wolfy]

this is the third time i'm quoting this, and you still do not seem to realise that in all my scenarios i assumed that the pr would cc.

that's my point - why would you assume the pr would CC? It's a ridiculous assumption. The pr would never cc.

[Wolfy]

These two posts are

almost

exactly the same in reads, anyone want to guess why?

Because we are both seeing the same scummy behaviour in you?
We are reading Moratorium differently

If we had a cop; there would be a CC from at least the active players...

Really? So if you were the cop you would CC at this point? Day 1? I find that hard to believe.

[Wolfy]

Also, Wolfy, did JS ever replied to you in regards to me?

who is JS and what question did I ask him/her?

[Wolfy]

JacobSavage.

Also, nevermind, that wasn't you. It was BBT.

I know - i am paying attention...

The discussion about twilight happened because BBT (a newbie) asked if we could discuss after lynch.
Obviously if you had been around I'd have let you handle that but I tried to help out as best i could by explaining what I thought was allowed and what had happened in the game I had played.
Why not read back and check it out?

presumably if you had answered his question that would have pointed the FoS at you?

[Wolfy]

As a cop, yes I would have done it by now. Even on Day 1~

can you walk me through this with your IC hat on please?
I am keen to understand why this would be a good idea because I just can't see it - but then this is my first game (apart from 4 posts in an RVS lynch debacle)
As far as I see it, real cop CCing lets the mafia either nightkill the cop or roleblock the cop - why would you want to do that?

[Wolfy]

Wolfy
Don't know, trying to make people believe that I'm not cop when I am. But no convincing evidence other than that.

I am not trying to make people believe you're not cop - I was convinced from the moment of the claim.
I was simply discussing the 2 possibilities - doctor+role blocker or VT+MG - and it's 50:50 which one we are in the the mod has played fair and done it randomly.
The ongoing discussions about this have been about the merits of counter claiming - I believed you from the instant of the claim.

So, solid town read - Mafia Moderator. Everything about him says newbie town

[Wolfy]

Uh... just that some of us aren't as active as others i don't think that it means that we are scum or other roles, however I do agree with most of these conclusions as to roles of players.

If you're not active then it is reasonable for people to lean scum on you.
Pro-town play is active. It's asking questions and answering questions. It's helping town find mafia so we can lynch the right person tonight.
Inactivity doesn't help town - it helps scum by limiting information on which to base a decision.
If we don't have information then we'll be voting randomly and the odds are we will lynch a townie tonight - simply because there are 7 of us in the pot

Help town. Post more. Ask questions. Answer questions.
How about starting with:

...I do agree with most of these conclusions as to roles of players.

Why do you agree?
What have you read that makes you agree?
You say "most" - which ones don't you agree with and why?

[Wolfy]

Considerin' there has been no CC, yes.

Since 2 were inactive, 3 stated they wouldn't CC in this situation, you obviously know who you are, you are actually basing your view here on the fact that Xayzeck and Shinobi didn't CC. So based on 2 players only.

I'm getting a vibe that at least one of {BBT and Wolfy} are scum. Leaning towards former than latter.

Also I'm still liking Xayz for scum~

Interesting. Since I am getting a "vibe" that BBT is town and I know I am town - confirms my vibe that Malakittens is scummy...
I still think Xayz is scum too

I have reads. It's just not listed and I not fully explaining them.

Also,

I think I'm happier w/ your lynch than Xayz atm

VOTE: BBT

Moving off scum partner onto a pro-town player...?

They are mostly gut vibes which can't be fully explained at this point. I mean if you have been reading any of my posts which have some decent points as to why I'm feeling that way you would understand better. I just can't fully explain it perfectly

I haven't actually seen these decent points and I think somebody with your experience should be explaining it better.

I think I'm happier w/ your lynch than Xayzeck atm

VOTE: Malakittens

[Wolfy]

Vote Count Analysis

- Post # in left column, each column shows who a particular person is voting for when a voting post is made.
- Format stolen from someone whose name i forget on these forums a long time ago
- Provided with 2 points of Analysis:

accidentally submitted...

point 1) Wolfy and BBT are pretty damn all over the place.
point 2) We have 6 days left.

Someone mentioned something about sheeping earlier, trying to find the post and see if it bears true when plotted out.

Ah Excel's auto increment fill handle - you have to love it. I seem to have voted for thatguy2, thatguy3, thatguy4 etc.
Nice analysis though - really makes it clear that I have been all over the place.

I'm struggling to read Moratorium too - it's what I would expect from a good player.
You are either obviously town or you are scum who is really very good at looking like obvious town.
I suspect I won't have a read until after a flip.
I can see that if you are town Mora, you will probably die night 1, but then again if you don't will we all assume you're scum and lynch you anyway doing scum's job for them so they can kill elsewhere?

[Wolfy]

I really don't get why we're not voting out Xayzeck, he votes and L-2's a guy, which was exactly the opposite play to a just-finished game as town where he calls out and votes for the guy who L-2's. That seems pretty cut and dried.

We've got a bunch of unconsolidated opinion, unconvincing arguments, lurking players, and constant vote-switching. Pretty sweet setup for scum at this point.

I think I'm OK to go back to Xayzeck - I just sheeped Malakittens by switching (just to a different player)
Problem is we're going to need 100% of the active players (unless Xayzeck self votes)

What we really need is genuine activity from the lurkers - not just prod dodges.
There just isn't enough to go on.
If we mislynch and scum then kill an active townie we're down to 3 townies, 2 scum and 3 lurkers and we are well truly finished.
That's why part of me wants to (sheeping BBT!) lynch a lurker...

[Wolfy]

I'll be nightkilled first night.

I think there's at least a 50% chance that it'll be MM the first night (i.e if we're in the no doc setup)

[Wolfy]

I think there's at least a 50% chance that MM is telling the truth about his claim, but idles through Night 1 and forgets to investigate.

Didn't think of that... but I agree it's likely.

Question for IC/SEs:

In a situation like this, on the small chance that the cop survives and gets an answer, do we guide/suggest/put pressure on who we think it would be good to investigate or do we leave it up to the cop?

[Wolfy]

...if we had to lynch between Wolfy and BBT, I'd pick Wolfy.

Why? Any particular reason?
What's your read on me? Where are you getting it from?

[Wolfy]

I think I'm OK to go back to Xayzeck - I just sheeped Malakittens by switching (just to a different player)
Problem is we're going to need 100% of the active players (unless Xayzeck self votes)

What we really need is genuine activity from the lurkers - not just prod dodges.
There just isn't enough to go on.
If we mislynch and scum then kill an active townie we're down to 3 townies, 2 scum and 3 lurkers and we are well truly finished.
That's why part of me wants to (sheeping BBT!) lynch a lurker...

Anybody else you want to sheep instead of voting who you want to vote?

twas irony

I've not sheeped anybody - you however are now sheeping thatguy2!

[Wolfy]

I don't believe Mala lied about the setup - she just made a mistake...
...but i still lean scum on her.

of all the lurkers, thatguy2 (and his friends 3,4 5) bothers me the most.
he clearly is reading, just not posting - despite encouragement see 275

I think lurker lynch is last resort.
Current reads:
Town: MM, Mora, BBT
null: Shinobi
leaning scum: Mala, Xayzeck

not enough info - thatguy2, Hashtag

[Wolfy]

you however are now sheeping thatguy2!

weak omgus

I must try not to use irony with Xayzeck
I must try not to use irony with Xayzeck
I must try not to use irony with Xayzeck
...

Here is how I am looking at it now. We have 3 fairly inactive players, and 6 active. Now, let's say an active got lynched today and an active got killed in the night. That leaves 3 inactive players and 4 active. With only 4 active players, and with two of those players possibly being scum, the game becomes very difficult for town and I don't really want to be in this position. If we lynch a lurker and he turns out to be scum, yay, well done us. If he doesn't, he wasn't very useful to town in the first place, unless we're unlucky enough to lynch a power-role obviously; providing we even have another power role in this set-up. What I'm trying to say is, I would much rather lynch a weak-town inactive player, than mistakenly lynch a strong-town active player. At least after N1 we have a lot more information to work with.

This guy's got a point. D2 with almost half lurkers will drive activity down the gutter.

And it's pretty down the gutter as it is.

So you are in favour of lynching a lurker?
Which one and why?

[Wolfy]

I agree - let's wait for replacements...

but if thatguy2 prod dodges again without posting content...

[Wolfy]

I'm confused about HashtagSELFIE - why is he still here?
Last post I can see from him is 58 - 8 days ago.
can somebody join a game and go V/LA for 8 days?

[Wolfy]

This is my second forum game... first one was last week and rather short...

Why is this a red flag? I answered mala's question about my experience... Are you suggesting it's not true?
What exactly is scummy about this?

My only other game we didn't get out of RVS (accidental RVS lynch on page 2) and I died night 1 so I have no experience of this.

Why is this a red flag?
As per above - I had played one game. posted 4 times, and we lynched during RVS.
Me, a townie, got lynched night 1.
Again, what is scummy about this.

Nice! I now feel really encouraged to participate on this site, ask my own questions and offer my own opinions.
If I'm doing this wrong, help me, teach me

Why is this a red flag?
I thought I was being insulted. I responded.

Thank you for the lesson. I can see how that would work. I will bear that in mind in future.

Why is this a red flag?
Responding to an SE answer to a question I asked.

Put it in the dumb newbie category.

Why is this a red flag?
I hadn't understood an acronym used on this site because I was a newbie

[runs for cover]

Why is this red flag?
I expected responses that it wasn't a good idea?
I now agree that

generally

it isn't... but see below...

but if thatguy2 prod dodges again without posting content...

thatguy2 has been lurking with intent. He lurks then posts once when prodded then refuses to engage and lurks again.
So, yes, if we were going to lynch a lurker I would want to lynch him.

I just went through and quoted/bolded all the most important red flags in Wolfy's filter, in case somebody is actually too lazy to filter dive.

I'd really like to know how these are red flags. I assume by red flag you mean an indication of scummyness?

His entire filter seems geared towards fitting in and painting himself as a noob.

If you had bothered to look at my meta you would see that i am a noob.
If it looks like I am trying to fit in and be pro-town then just maybe it's because I am town.

Your starting from Mala's premise that one of either BBT or myself must be scum is a big problem for me as I have a scum read on Mala.
I now have a scum read on you.

[Wolfy]

Do you know who Wolfy reminds me of? My mother. My mother is 64 years old.

Interesting that you can not only read my game alignment but my age as well!
(I'm not actually 64 - but closing in on it fast)

VCA after today will look extra stripey.

I don't read Mora's on/off/on votes on Mala as scummy -
looked like the off was just to make sure someone didn't quick hammer while he read through stuff to make sure once he was sure it was back on.

We need a lot more from enomis- something to back up your 380 and counter Mala's 402.

[Wolfy]

If Wolfy is town, then the only people I'd probably vote off today are Xayzeck and Mala, unless I'm forgetting someone.

Those are my favourites too...
But I still haven't heard enough from enomis or jcozmo in particular so I'm not in a great rush.

So, jcozmo, let's have some reads with reasons.
Do you agree with Moratorium that I am town?
What about BBT?
Are you in the Mala camp where one of us must be scum?
What about Shinobi, Mala, Mora and enomis?
You've already said you think Xayzeck is scum - is that still the case?

[Wolfy]

You've jumped to quite a few conclusions there. And put some words in my mouth.

No I would not say my whole scumread boils down to not contributing - It's what he has contributed that leads me to a scumread. No, I do not have only one scumread. I said that naming a top 2 is difficult. Naming a top 1 was not.

Who do I town read?

Mora, BBT, and MM - The first two for fairly transparent scumhunting throughout, the last due mostly to the panic claim incident.

If you are looking for a hyper-analyzed report for each read I have this will be disappointing, because I won't have that. I read here somewhere, and agree, that true scumslips are likely rarer than advertised. Most posts are made with a purpose, and what those are set to accomplish leads me to a general feel for the motivations of the poster. I read this game thread in context and then followed up by reviewing ISO's to confirm or change my "gut" feel on specific people. This is where my initial reads have come from from.

I'm reading town from this. I may be naive (or just old) but this reads strongly as newbie town to me. I could almost see myself writing it.

...Deadline is in three days. At least two other players not currently voting for Mala have explicitly expressed a scum read on her. I'm pointing this out explicitly here because the last page or so of conversation feels.... like a distraction. Votes on Malakittens, por favor.

I agree - votes on Malakittens.
She clearly doesn't like playing scum and it shows.
It feels like we're in limbo/being distracted now - we had to wait for the replacements to post but I think it's time to move forward.

[Wolfy]

I leant thatguy, yes, but I never pushed for his lynch. Stop twisting please

I had the same leaning without pushing so I can relate to this...

Who are you going to push to lynch though Xayzeck? Are you prepared to lynch Mala?

[Wolfy]

...Also to say I don't like being scum and that it's showing is conf bias.

So, just to clarify - are you saying you have never expressed preference for town roles over scum?
and, what does "conf bias" mean?

[Wolfy]

She's saying you are expressing Confirmation Bias.

Which is a concept she's taking from Xayzeck in post #449, 7 posts prior to hers.

Ah! Exactly what she is doing with the "one of BBT/Wolfy is scum" thing which she has been running with since 214

[Wolfy]

I'm actually kinda sick of no body rethinking their read and that I could possibly be town. It's frankly discouraging, annoying and I'm not going to harp on new information if you guys aren't goin to listen.

Isn't this exactly what you are doing with the "one of BBT/Wolfy must be scum thing"?
You're not prepared to rethink your read and that we could possibly both be town.

We also need MM (or preferably an active replacement) posting - he is effectively conf town and conf town can be extremely valuable (if they participate fully in the game)

Mod: It's 60 hours since his last post - has he been prodded again?

If we can get an MM replacement in and 48 hours for him/her to play then I'm happy to wait.
If we just get a prod dodge again and no content then we'd just be wasting time.

[Wolfy]

Reads as follows:

Town:

Mm
Eco (that guy)
Shin

Null-Leaning town:

Mora

Null-leaning scum:

Xayz

Scum:

{BBT/Wolfy}
Enomis

So Mala, if we don't lynch you who are you proposing we lynch?
We have less than 40 hours and I know you don't want a no lynch.
I know your vote is on Enomis but I'm not seeing your case.
Rather than just defending yourself, how about helping us noobs by developing the case on enomis?

[Wolfy]

Some thoughts on night action...

Cop needs to be checking Mora on the off chance that it gets through.
Because of the outed D1 cop, the only way we can win this game imo is with:

• a. capable, experienced conf town
  b. conf scum

Cop checking Mora will give us that.

Having said that it's clear that MM is going to die tonight unless there's a doctor (particularly if Mora is scum)
If there is a doctor then there's also a roleblocker so MM still doesn't get a read.

So, is there any point in the doctor (if he exists) protecting the claimed cop?

[Wolfy]

Wow! Away from computer for a few hours and several pages fill.

So Mala, if we don't lynch you who are you proposing we lynch?
We have less than 40 hours and I know you don't want a no lynch.
I know your vote is on Enomis but I'm not seeing your case.
Rather than just defending yourself, how about helping us noobs by developing the case on enomis?

Mala, give me some reasons to switch to enomis...

This is my mindstate right now:
...
(hey, look, it's super possible that Wolfy/BBT are both just upset that Mala singled them out, and you're leading them straight into enomis's hands)
...

This could well be influencing my vote...

I don't think the thought of a Xayzeck wagon taking off at the time you posted is that far fetched. Numerous people have expressed varying degrees of concern over Xayzeck, you're right that no wagon had formed, but it's certainly not impossible that it could have happened.

and it still could.

I'm trying to figure out why Shinobi stuck his neck out so far for Mala. I actually don't think its all that likely she flips scum. So thats what I'm currently trying to reconcile. Also trying to understand this new enomis wagon and who benefits and why.

I am also trying to get my head around why Shinobi defended Mala so strongly? That's not scum play to me.

... but I'm not sure its 100% critical that you hit scum D1.

I think it's pretty important

in this game

that we hit scum D1 because scum know who the cop is.

...I'm a nice guy, upstanding citizen. I take care of my family, like just now, I'm bouncing my newborn son in my lap, while he's slobering all over his cute wittle thumbs cutie cute aawwww sweetie don't cry nooooo...
...I run the neighborhood watch program, volunteer at the soup kitchen, and run a bunny adoption service on the weekends.

Spoiler:

Like, 20% of this post is true.

I really hope it's the bunny adoption that's true.

Unfortunately i am not in US time zone either so it's off to bed for me. Looking forward to much more in the morning.

[Wolfy]

If nothing else, just so we can squash this setup talk:

Some setups don't even have cops.

True, but all setups have at least one town power role. It's needed to balance the game in a 7-2 split. We are about to lose ours.

The cop kill would be interesting. MM isn't even particularly active, so you'd have to wonder if he'd have an impact on the game by idling through the night and not checking. There are also a huge number of town leaders in this game as well, so those are also enticing targets for mafia to hit.

Agreed about MMs activity - but if I was scum I'd still take out the cop N1 in case he found me.

But we really need to stop discussing setup. We're down to the last hours of the day and we need to lynch, and there's so much information out there right now that we can't clog it with this setup speculation.

I wasn't discussing setup (this time) - I was discussing the importance of lynching scum D1.

EBWOP.

what's an ebwop?

[Wolfy]

...at least three people want my head on a platter that it doesn't matter when they get it that I'll be an easy mislynch down the road.

I'm assuming since my vote is on you that you think i am one of the three...
I don't want your head on a platter - I voted you because I believed you were scum
If you convince me you're town I won't be trying to lynch you.
Only diamonds are forever.

Majority of the people scum reading me because I'm not producing reads. I'm producing reads, but they *are* mainly gut. Yes, after I was called out I decided to do a full re-read of the thread, I put my thoughts together in this post. Regardless, it gave myself a stepping stone to look back on it when needed.

I derp'd about the setup. Scum would have been more concerned with what setup they could potentially be in as their role PM's give information to them. Would scum carelessly make a mistake about the setup? (This is a serious question.)
More than 10 times out of 10 the FIRST thing that mafia discuss (if they discuss) anything in their QT during pregame is the information off their role PM's about the setup they are in.

I'm scumhunting, just not at everyone's expected pace. I play mainly by gut and it's effective in some cases in my opinion. Day 1 gives me the most information after a flip because you can go reread the thread in a different light and judge off reactions, etc.

So the cases on me boils down to:

Playstyle clashes (scum hunting paces, evolution of reads)
A careless mistake.

I also include as a reason your false dilemma - me or BBT.

Anyways, looks like the wind is changing...

[Wolfy]

I need to get back on and re-read the last few pages later.
I'm not convinced at the moment on enomis so I am not prepared to hammer just yet.
I want to analyse how this wagon built but i don't have time at the moment - maybe in 3 hours.

[Wolfy]

Wagon build on enomis...
1. Mala
2. Xayzeck
3. Shinobi
4. Mora
5.

My strongest town reads:
MM
BBT

enomis

None of us on the wagon so I'm looking at a scum driven wagon here...

really concerned that Mala's gone quiet again now the pressure is on enomis.
really concerned at Mora's back-off on Mala - starting to think that we're being played by an M&M (not MM) scum team.

I don't want to hammer but I even less want to no lynch.

[Wolfy]

I don't want to hammer but I even less want to no lynch.

I have been stressing over a no-lynch situation but everyone else seems pretty relaxed about it. Yet, here we are. I'm probably going to wake up tomorrow to see the decision that has been taken. I cannot stress enough, that I

ABSOLUTELY DO NOT WANT

an Enomis lynch, just from these early days he looks like he could be a very useful addition to town in this game.

Noted, but No Lynch is really not an option.
No matter what we think we know about enomis we can't know for certain until a flip.
I have to go to bed soon and I will not be awake again before deadline so if it's me that does it I'll have to do it soon.

I guess enomis is offline now but anybody else got any more to add?
30 mins max

sorry, I think you're town but No lynch is worse...

Intent to hammer enomis

[Wolfy]

VOTE: enomis

absolutely

only

because I don't want no lynch and I can't see BBT, JCozmo or MM doing it

[Wolfy]

VOTE: enomis

absolutely

only

because I don't want no lynch and I can't see BBT, JCozmo or MM doing it

You stated intent, and hammered like, an hour later?

We've got 5-6 hours till deadline, why did you hammer so quickly?

Was going to bed, it was 3am for me (I am in UK) and I wouldn't be back before deadline AND nobody else was prepared/able to do it AND

it needed to be done

. Sorry enomis.

[Wolfy]

Wolfy is town (even though that was probably the derpiest hammer I've ever seen)

So you preferred no lynch?
BBT didn't want to do it, MM and JCozmo weren't around.
If I hadn't done it we would have no lynched.

[Wolfy]

Enjoyed the game - following from afar...
Completely fooled.

Sorry for thinking you were scum Mala - but you played exactly the same as in the other game we just finished when you were scum! That's pretty impressive.
BBT you were amazing. Shame you support a crap team
Thanks for all the lessons Mora - including how to accidentally hammer someone...

[Wolfy]

I'd love some analysis, tbh.

me too please.

[Wolfy]

Thanks for the feedback Mala - much appreciated.
I know I'm too easily swayed and I'm way too easily influenced by playstyle and tone. They shout at me and I get over defensive. I'm just a sensitive soul.
As for the micro I knew wasn't really ready for it but I'd had my two (rather short) newbie games. (that's where the defensiveness really came out)
Doing a newbie as SE now which is fun.
Thanks again.