Newbie 1767 | Winter | Endgame
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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I get a hint of LAMISN here
a word I may or may not have just made up which means look at me I'm so new-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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From the post. Nothing wrong with being new, but scum sometimes emphasize it on purpose to appear harmless.In post 22, EchoVision wrote:What'd you get that impression from, the fact that he says he's new? Or the fact that his account has existed for about 10 days...?-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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@Frederick
Read the IC post about RVS. Gist of it is, at the beginning there's 0 info and people have to snowball usually weak reasons or "vibes" there into more serious ones later to get the game rolling.
Basically I rvs'd, got bored and did a closer retake for something interesting.-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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In post 23, Huntress wrote:
Your wagon started first.In post 13, Loopdan wrote:@Huntress-- You had a choice of putting the third vote on either Selynee or me. Why'd you go with the more experienced player?
Brie feels self-conscious here.In post 57, TheBrie wrote:
That was more of: I'm terrible at introductions, but had to say something.In post 21, Raskolnikov wrote:I get a hint of LAMISN here
a word I may or may not have just made up which means look at me I'm so new-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Are you nervous?In post 52, TheBrie wrote:Ooh, somebody voted for me. But not the person I voted for. Probably that person could tell I'm innocent. I mean I must be innocent. I'm so not worried that I forgot this existed for a couple of days.-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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What do YOU think about TheBrie?
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Just to be clear, you're implying a brie scumread as well here? The suggestion being defending thebrie is bad.In post 72, lucca261 wrote:His questions mean nothing, and he is clearly soft defending Brie here on this page.-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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This admittance is actually pretty town.In post 80, TheBrie wrote:And now that three people have voted for me I'm a little nervous, because I'd rather not die just yet.-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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TheBrie confusion she's expressing now reads genuine even if a bit awkward.
Was still fidgety on entrance but that's not necessarily scum-indicative here.
Definitely starting to look game-solvey.-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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If you're trying to figure things out you sure are being stealthy about it.In post 87, Fredrick E Campbell wrote:
My posts earlier were trying to get the game moving. My vote is still on Huntress because I still can't figure out who's scum.In post 72, lucca261 wrote:Happy with my vote staying on Frederick. I feel like he's not trying to scumhunt, just trying to appear active. His questions mean nothing, and he is clearly soft defending Brie here on this page.
With all this activity, why are you still voting Huntress?
Taking issue with something is one thing but this reads more like voting loop for saying something unusual rather than a judgement about how or why he did it.In post 122, Fredrick E Campbell wrote:
I'm town. I'm willing to give the wages for nonsense like this.In post 95, Loopdan wrote:I just used my1-shot Game Solve Attempt.
Once a game you can message the mod and they will confirm or deny your guess at the scum-team. You have to get both partners right or they just say "You are wrong." So like you can't just get partial credit for knowing one scum player.
It's rare to use it this early but I thought I'd give it a try. Penguin confirmed I nailed it and he should be along soon to lock up the thread and post the game ending. But we can continue to talk during this twilight period.
gg
VOTE: Loopdan
I've got a heavy schedule every Tuesday(my time zone is GMT+8) from now on since school has reopened. So, I'll be getting reads and answering questions tomorrow.
Latter part of post implies you're getting reads tomorrow which implies this isn't really a scumread? Are you trying to "figure things out" or doing busywork?
OMGUS actually's okay in the context though.-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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In post 105, EchoVision wrote:I don't even know what's happening in this game anymore... Fuck brie <3 love you
VOTE: BrieYeah IDK about this l-1 bro
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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How do you put theBrie l-1 on also nothing and then have a problem with sens earlier l-2 vote?In post 125, EchoVision wrote:Sens decided to hop on a wagon for Brie putting her at L-2(I believe) with absolutely no explanation. Yeah shit like that happens, but this struck me as very odd. The most suspicious thing for me was right after Loopdan used his fake guess shit. Sens said, "Wow. Guess that's that. Nice job loopdan." He didn't even bother reading the wiki or anything about it. He seemed so eager to end the game but didn't say anything at all about the whole thing and how ridiculous it seemed. He was just way way WAY too eager to put the game to an end. I'm on my way home now, so I'll post the rest of my findings later. For now,
VOTE: SensFan
Looks like after you got called out on your vote you went to look at who did similar to do the same. IDK how as town you could literally just have done the same thing THEN you scumread sens off of it without noticing at all...
Is the cognitive dissonance not obvious even to a newbie here?
And this looks like hardcore exaggeration and twisting of a pretty short post of sens.He seemed so eager to end the game but didn't say anything at all about the whole thing and how ridiculous it seemed. He was just way way WAY too eager to put the game to an end.
How are you this super confident on the judgement given what you've actually said?
The l-2 vote when you yourself l-1'd and a "Nice job loopdan" is a huge mismatch for this conclusion you're trying to bring out of it and I can't possibly see how what you say would've brought you to that read.
I feel like this confidence is being faked here and this post is trying to make sens look bad on BS.
VOTE: Echo-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Why's it bad for sensfan and not loopdan himself?In post 134, EchoVision wrote:Exactly. You should know that there's nothing like that that would ever exist. Even if your join date was yesterday, you should know that. It's just way to overpowered and it shouldn't exist. That's why when you were so quick to jump on to the "good game, games over" train it raised many red flags for me.-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Mmm, huntress could actually be with echo if I'm right.
First impression is retroactively the votes good just for being on echo, but when she made it (28) it didn't make sense given he only just rvs'd/entranced...
This as somewhat decent distancing isn't out of the question, not beyond huntress at least.In post 127, Huntress wrote:@ Echo:Have you ever been mafia before? If you have, can you give me a link to the game please?-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Actually, given each of these the echo choice is odd given huntress herself describes fred as she did and agreed with me on thebrie. Seems like the weakest thing there so I don't see how it translated into being the vote?In post 28, Huntress wrote:
I was hoping to see how TheBrie (the only brand new player here), reacted to a third vote on the wagon she joined. But that train has left the station now.In post 26, Loopdan wrote:Like I was implying... it usually works better on newbies than SE's.
Selynee had already seemed to be unconcerned about a couple of votes on herself.
Fred looked a bit self-conscious about the wagon, first ignoring it, then querying it, and lastly downplaying it's value.
I agree with Rask on TheBrie.
I've got an odd feeling about Echo. He may be scum.
Vote: EchoVision
Huntress?-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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But why does scum do it either? He'd know it'd call some attention on him especially in a newbie game I'd think.In post 160, Fredrick E Campbell wrote:
What could town possibly do with a post like that? From what I see, the answer is plenty though. It has sparked up conversation, and of course makes analysis much more easier. But then, what was your intent?In post 158, Loopdan wrote:
I still want an answer to this.In post 123, Loopdan wrote:@Fredrick-- Why do you believe post 95 is more likely to come from scum than town?
VOTE: Fredrick
Did it not cross your mind it could've been partially messing around or hyperbole rather than a serious claim of a role that obviously doesn't exist?
I could see how it could be hard because loopdan did say he scumreads you and thebrie and it's awkward to tell exaggeration when it appears to be mostly based on a serious view he's pushing though.
Would you have reacted differently if he called a different team?-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Did you not see my post about it?In post 163, Fredrick E Campbell wrote:In post 92, Loopdan wrote:Frederick/Brie scum-team
Lock up the thread and hit the Newbie Queue for your next /in.What's so bad about that post?
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Frederick's kind of asking questions but not seeming to make any judgement or conclusions, even the loopdan vote doesn't necessarily seem like a read.
Comparatively theBrie's has a stance on pretty much everyone and even lucca's probably conveyed more in a lot less posts.-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Really?In post 131, Huntress wrote:I'm aware of his onsite game and have already read it, and noted the difference in his play so far here. It's too soon to really tell based on that. But that is not what I was asking him about. Why did you feel the need to respond to a question that was addressed directly to him, not to you?
Was this before the game, or in rvs, or...?-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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I really hope you didn't just do what I think you did...In post 226, Selynee wrote:Because I was pretty much useless D1 and didn't vote (though I wanted to vote Echo), my starting vote is going to be pretty risky, but I guess at this point a 50-50 read is worth it.
VOTE: Raskolnikov-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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I'm not sure I like how you ask lucca about it as if it was partially her fault though
"hold on and wait" really doesn't seem malicious and arguing it was intended to get the hammer down doesn't sound fair.-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Actually, what's your take on all of that now?In post 194, TheBrie wrote:
If by sorting me you mean helping me realize that people could really think I was guilty, or just trying to read me by my reactions, then thank you. I needed that.In post 192, Loopdan wrote:@Fred-- I was focused on sorting Brie.-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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So this might sound strange, but what exactly was your problem with the echo wagon?In post 163, Fredrick E Campbell wrote:In post 92, Loopdan wrote:Frederick/Brie scum-team
Lock up the thread and hit the Newbie Queue for your next /in.What's so bad about that post?
You seemed to disagree with it without even knowing what it was. Which I don't quite get.-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Not sure huntress is the way to go, moreso than her I'm interested in frederick and sens here.
She definitely played a subdued role d1 but I don't think huntress play has anything necessarily malicious in it either. Gutread is hard to analyse but she didn't seem in any rush to end that day either.
Brief meta skim has her pretty lurky in general so I don't think that's even NAI tbh. Can wait and see the analysis she says she has coming up.-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Regarding d1 wagon huntress's stance doesn't really stand out, first vote and mostly given as gutread. Her point on echo's 2nd post looking like defending thebrie made sense too.
Sensfan otoh did seem pretty confident hammering though I didn't hear that much of his own analysis there. Seems justified via a mix of an association per echo seeming to bus/partner-tell with theBrie, and what I pointed out in my case. Though there is the potential it was partially motivated via sens happening to be the one echo scumread, definitely could see a reason scum sens would've wanted to end the day when he did. Kind of light on the info given all the posts.
Frederick's is a weird case too, I get the feeling he wrote off echo a bit too fast. He seemed to not really consider echo-scum as a possibility without even yet reading why people scumread him, if that makes sense. It's possible he's just indecisive in general or lacking in awareness but it doesn't look like he was really phased about it either.
In that position I'd be pretty interested in finding out exactly what the case was on him if I didn't know, but he didn't really give any judgement that suggested he understood or tried considering it. Given he didn't put that much into defending him, it's possible as scum he just wanted a bit of towncred along with not being the wagon as it went through.-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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So you read everything and just walked away neutral to it all? Nothing was worth commenting on?In post 264, Fredrick E Campbell wrote:I had no reason to think Exho was scum. I didn't have much reason to think he was town either.
Even still I didn't see you really push loopdan lynch over echo which I'd kind of expect if you were whatever on echo but scumread loop.-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Probably not more than one scum on the wagon I'd imagine. As of now I'm thinking likely sens over huntress or especially thebrie but I want to see to see how sens answers today first.In post 272, lucca261 wrote:@rasko, now that we know Echo's flip, how do you read his wagon? I'm trying to do it, and is only making me more paranoid.-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Lucca's shown a lot more evidence of scumhunting than fred and votes him with me to boot.
Huntress I can get but you should meta-skim too and see how lurking is pretty standard for her, if you have something beyond activity for that I'd want to hear it though.
Can you share what makes you so confident on sens town?-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Need more votes on fred. Still don't have an answer to 266, but I know he'd have saw it because he answered about the senfan read. 294 is right beside 295.
As for the answer this more or less seems like his loopdan vote d1 as in a vote for the sake of voting. Reads feel puddle-deep, given he just brings up actions people did and essentially describes them without going further. He never explains what makes any particular thing actually alignment indicative to him or analyses into anything past the surface.
Thread interaction seems limited to things concerning himself as well, he asks questions but never mentions the answers he got which is a classic tell that someone isn't actually interested.-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Okay, maybe you have, who knows. Nothing's for certain.In post 365, Fredrick E Campbell wrote:After lucca261 mentioned he wished more follow up to my questions, I've been following them up. Not replying to the later questions doesn't mean I didn't use them to guess the player's alignment.
But it's hard to believe you are using truly that information if you never, ever, mention it. When I look and try to guess what's behind the veil, either there's nothing there, or there is but for some reason you're just keeping everything to yourself even after so many requests for explanation. As a rule, I'm going to assume the former until shown otherwise. Yes, it's impossible to know for sure what's going on if there's zero transparency. But if you're actually doing all the consideration you say you are then merely putting it down to words is the simplest thing in the world.
This is also the third time I'm going to ask for a response on 266.-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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Attitude or the vote being on you?
I agree with sick on this one, you've so far mostly reacted to those who've been on you and kind of ignored those who haven't.
I'm not sure how to reconcile your play altogether here with your joindate tbh, d1-end particularly.-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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How much game experience do you actually have?In post 383, Fredrick E Campbell wrote:Since people have bugged me to pass my reads...
Sickofit1138: Town for being attempting to guess who's scum.
Huntress: Someone like me. I'm nullreading Huntress.
TheBrie: Seems to be more likely than not to be town. A definite townread.
Loopdan: Trying to sherlock the game. Awarded a townread.
Raskolnikov: Trying to sherlock the game as well. Awarded a townread.
SensFan: Mysterious hammer and mysterious read. A scumread.
lucca261: Seems trying to solve the game. A townread.
Does it not bother you that you only have 1 scumread and 1 null? Are you confident on all of your townreads?-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=69287
Only game to really judge this off of is this one. Seems like he was wagoned very early, almost hammered but it got diverted last minute.
Trying to think of what's AI vs stylistic.-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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283 you have TheBrie at super raw which makes it hard for you to read her and fred/selynee/me as people you don't have a good grasp on.In post 410, SensFan wrote:
As far as I can tell, SickOfIt's vote has never been on me. Though I can see why it might look like that first part was directed at Fred when removed from the fact it was right after SOI's post.In post 408, Raskolnikov wrote:Attitude or the vote being on you?
I agree with sick on this one, you've so far mostly reacted to those who've been on you and kind of ignored those who haven't.
I'm not sure how to reconcile your play altogether here with your joindate tbh, d1-end particularly.
You can agree with Sick all you want. The fact remains I have been paying 'attention' to people, especially Fred, well before the suspicion on me. Sick has this weird thing where he assigns the causation of an event to something that happened after the event. He did it when he mentioned that lucca started distancing with me as a reaction to Sick calling us both Scum, and is doing it again by saying I'm pushing Fred because he pushed me.
Since then fred voted you and sickofit replaced in and called you scummy and you reacted pretty strongly to both of them but haven't said a word regarding me or thebrie. This is why I think sick might have a point here.-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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I extremely doubt this is what his intention was there.In post 381, Loopdan wrote:And I'm buying that his uncounted hammer was intentionally messed up to extend the day.
First off I think MOST rulesets would count the hammer as a hammer anyways under the interpretation rule (where anything that clearly looks like it was intended to be a vote counts as a vote, to prevent hammer sillyness), this game included if I read it right.
Second it looks like even sensfan himself isn't saying this wasn't the case so yeah?-
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Better or worse doesn't even necessarily enter into it, it's behavioral and you can generally expect some standards in due-diligence town play you wouldn't from someone with a new or seminew joindate.-
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Raskolnikov Jack of All Trades
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