Newbie 1773 - Roosters (Post-Game)

[Accountant]

Hi, I’m Accountant, your friendly neighbourhood Inexperience-Challenged player, or IC. This means that I have a few games under my belt, so I know the ins and outs of mafia and can show you the ropes. For those of you who hate reading long rants, or have read a similar post already, check out the link:
A Beginner’s Guide to Being Awesome At Mafia
Anyway, as the IC, it’s my job to teach you theory concepts, which means I will never lie about theory questions. Ever.
Before we start the game proper, I’d like to cover a few key concepts.

Hammering, Lynching and L-1

When the number of votes on a player exceeds half the number of players for that game, that player is lynched

instantly

and the Day ends. For example, we have 9 players. If that means the hammer is 5, so if there were to be 5 votes on someone, that player would be lynched. Do not recklessly hammer, especially early in the game, or you’ll risk accidentally lynching town members and cutting short discussion time.
The concept of L-X is used to indicate how many votes a player is to hammer. L-1 means 1 vote to hammer, L-2 means 2 votes to hammer and so forth. So for this game, if someone were to get 4 votes, they would be at L-1. When you place the vote that puts someone at L-1(for example, if someone has 3 votes and you’re putting the 4th vote down, with a hammer of 5), you should usually announce it with a statement like “He’s at L-1”, so people don’t accidentally hammer. Even more importantly, it means that mafia can’t hammer a town member and then claim ignorance the next day.
If someone is at L-1 and you want to hammer him, you should usually state “intent to hammer”, which means “I want to lynch you”. When you do this, you can also ask for a role claim. That way, if the player is a power role being mislynched, he can claim before you place the hammering vote, and thus save himself.

LyLo

LyLo is the shortened form of a phrase which means “lynch or lose”. The simplest form of LyLo is 3 players, 2 of whom are vanilla townies and the last being a mafia goon. Then, it’s easy to see that if they do not lynch, the mafia goon will kill one of them at night, stalemating the lynch the next day, and killing the last town member on Night 2 – although the mod will usually recognize this and end the game early instead of dragging it out.
When town is in LyLo, it’s important not to carelessly vote like you would on any other day, because of the potential for a mafia coordinated hammer(a “quickhammer”, happening before anyone else can react). Let’s say we have LyLo with 3 Vanilla Townies and 2 Mafia Goons. One of the vanilla townie carelessly puts his vote on another VT. This allows the two mafia goons to instantly rush in and simultaneously vote that VT, bringing his vote count to 3 in a game of 5 players, which is a hammer and loss for the town.
It’s good practice to try to recognize LyLo situations when you see them, but in Newbie games a more experienced player will usually point out that it’s LyLo and caution people from recklessly voting. Learning how to deal with LyLo is a very important part of playing mafia, and it comes up more often than you might think.

RVS

We are currently in the RVS, or Random Voting Stage. As none of us has any idea who is mafia(well, except the mafia members themselves, but they’re hardly going to admit it), we’re mostly poking around and slinging votes like hot curry at a food fight, trying to provoke reactions, start a discussion and basically probe around to try and determine player’s alignments.
As it is the

Random

Voting Stage, it’s common for players to vote for very silly reasons, such as “your avatar is ugly” or “your username has too many numbers in it”. Don’t worry, they don’t have a grudge against you or anything. It’s just part of RVS. Without RVS, it would be a lot harder to get the game moving.

Conclusion

Thank you for joining this newbie game, and I hope that all of us will have fun playing, win or lose. If you have any questions at all, feel free to ask me. I’m an IC, so it’s my job to be active and respond to questions from newer players. I live in Singapore, which makes my timezone GMT+8, so don’t be surprised if I answer in the middle of the night or appear to be inactive at high noon(I’m probably sleeping).

Have fun and good luck!

- Accountant

[Accountant]

Oh I forgot to remove the quote box from where I copypasted it. You know what I mean though.

@Lighthaze1135: Why did you think random lynching D1 was more likely to catch scum than trying to catch scum slips and hunt for scum D1?

You also said that he was claiming Jester to make people avoid lynching him. Why would the knowledge that there is no Jester make someone less inclined to lynch him? In fact, I contend that it is at best null, and at worst makes him easier to lynch, since people know for sure he's lying and being unhelpful.

[Accountant]

VOTE: TesXX

For the trolling. It's fine to clown around in RVS, but you seem to be actively refusing to engage with an actual point(even a bad one) against you.

[Accountant]

Is there any real reason to do it besides for fun @IC/SE's?

It gets the game going, and it forces people to take stances early on, for instance about TesXX's behavior. That's both something that moves the game along and is good to analyze and re-read in D2 or D3.

It's sub-optimal to No Lynch day 1, because the lynch is the method that town uses to acquire information. Without a lynch Day 1, we have the same information as when we started, only we're a townie down after the mafia kill. You should put your vote on someone!

[Accountant]

Loopdan: No comment on the TesXX thing? Or do you think it is NAI?

[Accountant]

I don't really see why we should be reading into the Tes thing so much. I mean sure he claimed Jester, but what's the big deal?

My concern is not with the fact that Tes claimed jester, but rather than Tes seems to be more interested in clowning around than engaging with people or moving the game forward. That's not a town mindset.

[Accountant]

Uhhhh you should vote Tes because you think there is a decent chance he is scum not because you want to play the odds. Also, barring a derphammer, 3) doesn't happen, because PRs usually claim before they die.

[Accountant]

Idk.. still on the fence rn

I thought you said you were starting to agree with the Tes lynch, then you wrote down an analysis of why the Tes lynch was good. That doesn't sound on the fency to me.

[Accountant]

Uhhhh you should vote Tes because you think there is a decent chance he is scum not because you want to play the odds. Also, barring a derphammer, 3) doesn't happen, because PRs usually claim before they die.

That's a bit soon. I mean, yeah I claimed a non existent role and joked around for a while, but isn't that part of RVS? I think this is a bit early to tell other people who to vote, that's kind of a later-in-the-game thing. I was just joking around for RVS, guys. I think putting me at L1 is a bit far since a scum player could hammer me.

I wasn't telling Woody who to vote - Woody was already voting you. I was, in fact, criticizing the reasoning for their vote.

[Accountant]

I mean you said their reasoning was bad, but that voting Tes was still a good idea regardless.

I'd rather hold off on Tes, at worse the Jester claim is NAI for me.

Who do you want to vote then? We have to get some kind of wagon going to push the game along, or it'll be stuck in limbo for all eternity. In my mind Tes is as good a wagon as anything else, especially given the reasons stated above.

[Accountant]

Loopdan are we declaring mutiny on our IC?

What for? o.o

[Accountant]

Not Tes, that's for sure. The only reasoning to vote Tes, in my mind, is barely a justification for an SR.

I'd like to hear a bit more out of Aj The Epic. He's said some things here and there, but he hasn't formulated any strong opinions so far. I liked what he said about Woodboys but I don't like how he didn't follow it up with anything further.

Why isn't your vote on Aj then?

[Accountant]

Actually Falco seems kind of detached/strangely cautious about voting in a phase that people are throwing votes around. VOTE: Falco

[Accountant]

Hey BartTheFart, why did you feel it was a good idea to claim so early?

[Accountant]

I think a townie could very well do that.

I agree. I'm not saying Falco is locked scum. It's a lead I'd like to pursue, and it's stronger than my old vote on you.

[Accountant]

...what? Are you saying that you'll intentionally play badly after D1 and not contribute?

[Accountant]

Not sold on lighthaze yet. I don't buy into "too scummy to be scum", but I do buy that a flashwagon with no resistance on lynchbait is more likely to be a mislynch than town catching scum on page 5.

[Accountant]

think of it as reverse phycology, claiming jester and wanting to be lynched. I dont think anyone would lynch Tes for a role that didnt exist, making them "townish"

I have an issue with this reasoning. Your theory is that Tes is scum attempting to gain fake towncred by claiming Jester - but I don't see how he gets towncred from this. Although nobody would lynch Tes for a role that does not exist, nobody would consider him town for it either - agree? In this case, why would scum!Tes think that people would townread him for the Jester claim? Indeed, drawing attention is more likely to attract votes and a trollish playstyle is more likely to be perceived as scummy.

[Accountant]

My question is, why waste time and space and confuse over half the participants by going after Accountant or Loopdan when I'm pretty sure Accountant is town?

Could yoh talk to me more about how and why your mindset shifted from jokingly talking about mutiny to listing me as a townread?

[Accountant]

You said earlier you're pretty sure Falco and I are a team due to falco's questions, but this:

[snip]

Doesn't come from a partner.

I am not an intelligent person. Explain to me in baby terms why it doesn't? After all, it seems pretty easy to fake to me.

[Accountant]

I mean I'm not against scumhunting, I'm more or less opposed to what's coming out of it though.

What is the bad thing that has resulted from the early game scumhunting?

[Accountant]

can everyone list srs and trs now, i want to list this

^ Anyone who has their vote on Light needs to take it off ASAP, by the way. Scum!Lighthaze has no reason to do this(clearly not the sort of newbscum who wants to gauge the waters before deciding which way to push, and that's the only scum motive I can think of for this), and this feels strongly of newbtown who is legitimately trying to get a feel for people and sort them out.

[Accountant]

Re:Falco vote, mehhhh I kinda wanted to go after Woodboy but not only is there no support there (aka vanity wagon), the reason I want to pursue is also a bit cold.

Reasoning behind you voting woodboy is cold. Falco's reasoning is not cold. Why do you prefer wood to falco?

[Accountant]

@tesXX, care to claim?

Generally claims happen when there is declared intent to hammer.

Reads list:

[Accountant] - me
[Lighthaze] - obvtown
[gigabyte] - townlean
[TesXX, Loopdan, woodboys, AceQueen] - null
[Aj] - nullscum
[Falco] - scumlean

[Accountant]

Lighthaze: I did say earlier that Light was being pretty scummy but I realized that it was pretty impulsive I said this in 122 I think(?) - either way I did doublepost and say that the wagon was pretty bad. Dummy not scummy IMHO

Why is Lighthaze dummy town and not dummy scum?

[Accountant]

Tes: He got to L-1 and then...just went back into the shadows. You'd think that a newb townie would step up to the plate whenever they're one vote from getting hammered, but as far as I can see, that's not happening with Tes.

Why would Tes do this as scum? Do you think he is the type of scum to lurk? (But then why draw attention off the bat?) Do you think that as scum, he would care less about his life, and therefore not step up to the plate at L-1?

[Accountant]

@Loopdan: Under that reasoning you should be voting either Falco or Aj, instead of nobody.

[Accountant]

To me, reads that take more than a few lines of logic to make are fencesitting.

also what that doesn't make sense nor does it apply to any of my reads??

i think your play is reactive and you haven't scumhunted until i've prodded you

falco has bad votes and isn't pushing anything. some analysis but none of it is particularly town

accountant has a good trajectory and i've liked his votes

tes's entrance was town

light is literally the most transparently town poster i've seen in a while

please explain how these reads are "more than a few lines of logic"

and sorry about being petty but light is really obvious town and i have no idea what loop was doing there. i called him town, if i were scum that would mean the trajectory i intend to fake does not lead to me voting there

Quick sidenote - not a he

[Accountant]

Sorry about how busy I've been lately. I'll try my best to stay with the game soon when I get the chance I promise.

{Accountant} {Lighthaze} town
{giga} nulltown
{Loopdan} null
{falco} scumlean

giga has been including lots of details and seems to have been engaging in trying to find the mafia more than most of the other players, which wouldn't be entirely necessary and wouldn't be scummy not to do.
Loopdan's posts seem like they could be made by a mafia or town player.
181 seemed to just a tiny bit forced to me.

I will upload more posts with other reads soon when I get the opportunitu.

Why are there people missing from this list? Where is Ace? wood?

[Accountant]

I don't really see why we should be reading into the Tes thing so much. I mean sure he claimed Jester, but what's the big deal?

My very first scum ping for this game..

It's a red letter day. Break out the champagne!

Spoiler:

Town is naturally curious about strange events.

Scum is typically more defensive.

^ goodposting

[Accountant]

Oh we are going to have such a fun little chat.

Sure! What do you want to chat about?

[Accountant]

@Grey: Regarding your theory, I'm don't like doing preflip associations. I'm not comfortable saying Tes is scum for merely being associated with someone who is acting scummy - the way I see it, it's best to lynch the actual scummy player(Falco) first, and then talk about associatives if/when they flip scum.

One thing that stood out to me was that you spend the last three points arguing

against

a Falco/Tes scumteam("I'd have expected newbscum to unvote their partner there", talking about how the internal conflict feels real) but then you end up with the same conclusion. Can you talk to me about this?

[Accountant]

I'm actually not particularly convinced of Tes being scum-associated with Falco. In my experience, newbscum usually do not talk about each other, soft defend each other or anything like that. More often than not they pretend their partner does not exist, or exists only as a vague entity to give softball questions to.

[Accountant]

Not feeling well today. I'll do my best to catch up, but don't expect miracles.

[Accountant]

He's a pretty hard townread at the moment because he was the first to point out what I found scummy about Falco when the status quo for the gamestate was something scum would want to keep it in (on tes and light, who I townread and still do tbh). I think as scum he wouldn't try to shift momentum onto Falco because the Tes push was something the rest of the town was already engaged in, while Falco needed my replace-in to get any attention. Even if Falco were town, I don't really see much point in scum changing their vote like that.

Not much else to say, most of his posts have been great and his thought process is genuine.

their*

sorry for being nitpicky about this

[Accountant]

keep in mind giga, we could be led on a wild goose chase by grey, but its unlikely

^ this is town paranoia.

[Accountant]

Also, based on all the reasoning that seems quite reliable from players I deem as very experienced...

Intent To Hammer Falco

This feels bad. I can't put my thumb on why it feels bad; I'll come back to this after I get rid of my sleep deprivation, but this definitely feels pretty scummy.

[Accountant]

{Light} - fulltown
{TesXX, Accountant} slight town
{grey, giggles, loop} null
{AJ} slight scum
{Falco} fullscum

Not that great at hunting, but those are my reads.

This is like one of the safest list of opinions I've ever seen

[Accountant]

Grey I think I'm mindmelding with you let's hold hands and lynch woodboys together?

VOTE: Woodboys

[Accountant]

Oh that's L-1 I think?

[Accountant]

Alright, I'm heading back to sleep before my headache kills me. Sliiightly uncomfortable with the speed of the wood wagon but it's still an amazing wagon. I thought perhaps the most damning part was that Wood's reaction to Grey's analysis felt very irritated, like he's scum who doesn't understand why he's being wagoned and is frustrated that he's getting lynched for the wrong reasons.

[Accountant]

I'm going to be completely open, here.

I stopped attempting to determine your alignment after you softed a power role.

The longer you live, the less I'm going to believe that soft because you are going too ham on the paranoia card.

Why did you feel it was necessary to tell everyone about the identity of someone you believe to be a PR?

[Accountant]

LOL

I don't believe scum has the balls to make 703, so I'm putting Grey into obvtown category for that

[Accountant]

I'll lynch B over A 9 times out of 10.

It honestly depends on the player. Against a super calm player like Magna/Thor I'd expect B more and would probably lynch them if they had response A

But I think the scummiest thing about woods' reaction to his wagon here was the fact that the phrasing of his question seemed very caught for wrong reasons. It was like "can you guys tell me what I did wrong?? My disguise was perfect! Why am I being killed?" more than anything. I'm also unsure why town!woods here only interacts with grey

[Accountant]

{Light} - fulltown

wood when did you get this scumread

how did it transition

and grey why tf are you supporting this??

what wtf the fuck the fuck??¿??

dont care about woods alignment this is a bad wagon sorry

let's get falco

At the time I read this post, this reaction is more or less exactly mine.

[Accountant]

LOL

I don't believe scum has the balls to make 703, so I'm putting Grey into obvtown category for that

grey was already obvtown tho

and grey totally has the balls to do that as scum

so uh

I was townleaning Grey. Not listing them as obvtown yet.

Thanks for telling me that Grey is that kind of player.

[Accountant]

It's hard for me this game because I was up to a pretty okay start, and then I sort of got consumed with apathy and it's making it difficult for me to play.

My thoughts:

1) Lighthaze: you seem extremely willing to jump back and forth between people and hammer basically anyone. I remember you asking if you could hammer multiple times. Why are you so eager to vote-hop rather than stick to a big scumread and push it?
2) Grey: Talk to me about your thoughts on lighthaze. Your read on him hopped so fast I'm having trouble keeping track.
3) Aj the Epic: There's probably at least one scum in Light/Woods/Falco, and I think the most likely is Woods. But I wanted to ask you why you had no response to people talking about post 427? Because I'd like to hear you talk about it.

[Accountant]

Nice try on the bait Accountant. Unless you actually thought I was hammered

???

[Accountant]

the big issue i have with woods is that every bit of his attitude and mindset in terms of determining how he should act/react in situations seems to stem from a survivalist or caught-scum pov

[Accountant]

If wood flips scum, then Aj's "this wagon is moving too fast" would ping me really hard.

[Accountant]

Like, I'm not sure why neither Grey or Giga - both of you are clearly experienced, competent players - didn't see that. That's a fairly textbook vague-reasoning deflection off a flashwagon onto your scumbuddy.

[Accountant]

Like, I'm not sure why neither Grey or Giga - both of you are clearly experienced, competent players - didn't see that. That's a fairly textbook vague-reasoning deflection off a flashwagon onto your scumbuddy.

???

ive pointed it out three times

Sorry, must've missed those posts.

@Grey: Talk to me about why if wood flips red light is a more likely scumbuddy than aj

[Accountant]

Kinda like, just did.

No you didn't, your post was explaining the dilemma that scum!Light faces tonight, not explaining why Light is scum.

[Accountant]

VOTE: wood

Optimal play here is to let him sit at L-1 and gamesolve/hunt for his partner until deadline. Unfortunately these two days are not good for me in terms of schedules and business, but I'll do my best.

[Accountant]

Caught scum self-hammers frequently. This is a textbook case of caught scum.

Yeah, why didn't Accountant consider that? That might be a great topic of conversation today.

Because I forgot about the possibility. That was my fault, and I admit it.

[Accountant]

why did they not kill aj...?

definitely would like to hear a result first before we end the day

i'm struggling now to see any partner besides light for wood btw

Why would they? Aj is a tracker, wood is confscum and the doctor just died. That means Aj is useless on N1(because the scum team will just make wood do the kill, since he's confscum anyway), and nobody can stop an Aj death on N2 since the doctor's dead. They know we're going to take advantage of the free day, so killing obvtown who's also a good gamesolver makes sense.

[Accountant]

Accountant I don't really see as scum

What happened to me being scum by PoE?

[Accountant]

I'm trying to figure out if Light's continued insistence on his overly paranoid shtick actually means anything or if it's just a last gasp attempt at clinging on to his persona.

[Accountant]

IC speaking: Do not listen to anything that confscum says. Pretend that their posts do not exist. The only reason they are posting is to fuck town over, so there's no point listening to them or acknowledging their words ni any way at all. If you accidentally read one of their posts, try to forget it exists.

[Accountant]

light can u stop and just gamesolve who is scum if not you you have like 4 suspects and 2 are obviously town :///

idk how tf to gamesolve

Who do you think is town? Who do you think is scum with Wood?

[Accountant]

Woodboys wagon gave him what felt like new footing in the game

just like the way his tone shifted made it seem unlikely he was bussing

Talk to me about this? Like, before and after comparisons.

[Accountant]

@giga: Stop engaging. Optimal play for caught scum is to troll and shit up the thread, and wood(who has, they have indicated, played mafia before) likely knows this.

I do buy giga's explanation re:town Tes; should light flip town, my reads from towniest to scummiest are Tes > Giga > Loopdan.

[Accountant]

Wait, hold on. Your brother posted in this game for you?

[Accountant]

Alright. Just remember that it's very illegal to have more than one person posting in a slot in a newbie.

[Accountant]

This should explain it.

Thoughts on the tone/gear shift towntell that Giga pointed out?

[Accountant]

{Aj} Null

Actually claiming tracker to protect your scum teammate who is probably going to be lynched tomorrow if the other guy flips town is probably a bad idea since it will be auto win for town when you get counterclaimed later.
{Aj} Town.

This is town though ^^

[Accountant]

{Aj} Null

Actually claiming tracker to protect your scum teammate who is probably going to be lynched tomorrow if the other guy flips town is probably a bad idea since it will be auto win for town when you get counterclaimed later.
{Aj} Town.

This is town though ^^

How? I'm basically confirmed to die tonight.

Scum knows 100% you're town and therefore telling the truth, having to work out logic to figure out you're the tracker in the first place is something only town needs to do.

[Accountant]

Lighthaze: If you are really town, it is your job to help the town secure victory by any means possible. That includes telling us your reads, analysis and so on.

You think Tes is scum, right? Town has 1 lynch after your death before the mafia win. If Tes is really scum, we should definitely be using that lynch on them. And it is therefore your job to explain to us why Tes is scum so that we will lynch Tes and then town will win. That's what it means to play to your win condition.

Of course, if you're just scum who's exhausted of lying, then ignore this message.

[Accountant]

okay good let's hear it

[Accountant]

What about giga's explanation for their Tes TR? What do you make of that?

[Accountant]

prodge


too sick to post atm

[Accountant]

lighthaze is mafia hue hue hue

[Accountant]

VOTE: light

[Accountant]

oh crap, i had forgotten about the game, some stuff came up, im at l-1, but accountant didnt bother to announce that, odd is it not?

Why would I? You're done with your analysis, right? So it's time to lynch you. It's fine if someone quickhammers, since you don't have anything to claim anyway.

[Accountant]

Well then, make the rest of your analysis before someone comes on and hammers you

[Accountant]

we should give final thoughts since one of us will get nightkilled in case Light is inno.

The last thing I want to do if light is town is be giving out reads.

Yes. This just helps scum decide who to nighkill.

[Accountant]

I've been putting this off because I hate LyLo. Associations and (reluctantly) VCA to come soon.

[Accountant]

Generally scum don't clump together on the same wagon early on, but Wood only voted with confirmed town - so I can't clear either of you by that alone.

[Accountant]

If I had to make an impression, it's an awful lot of debate and a surprising amount of investment into an argument with someone who was going to die and who everyone was sure(or said they were sure) would flip scum and end the game. I'm trying to decide if it's paranoia that's telling me it's because Tes knew Light would flip town; OTOH I'm wondering why Tes killed giga if scum and Tes objectively looks very good(giga's tonal towntell is still very much on my mind)

[Accountant]

Associations with Woodboys is useless because that guy didn't associate himself with anyone strongly, so I'm going to look at stances about him

[Accountant]

As for woodboys, not much stood out to me other than the fact that he said he would respond to falco's question about me and then didnt. Do you think it was a mistake or a lurk?

When -Grey- first made post 376 I thought, "this evidence is actually pretty good, but woodboys' posts still seem a bit more like they could be genuine than falco's posts," but then woodboys came with 397 saying that he was an indecisive person, and then that made me think more about on page 2 when he was talking about being on the fence about voting me, and it didn't seem very real. It was almost like he wanted to act on the fence about it and

then

vote me, to seem like a townie being careful about lynching. I'll probably decide on whether I suspect woodboys or falco more overnight and vote in the morning.

Still though, I don't see why you said they were pushing. Seems a bit like an excuse. (Also 400 wasn't the only reason I voted woody, it might've seemed like it was from the way I posted my vote)
Yes I said I was going to bed and I will now.
Probably.

(note: tes doesn't explain the other reasons alluded to in this post)

[Accountant]

For Loopdan - no stance on Wood given(apart from telling him to get an avatar) until post 417, which is after Grey explained why he was scum and several people already hopped onto the wagon.

I'm not convinced that woodboy's push on light makes him town. Even though light is townread by some, he's still low hanging fruit if you consider it's picking a fight with an inexperienced player. And I've been open that I'm not in agreement that light is obvtown.

@mod: requesting VC

If Woodboy is really at L-1, I

intend to hammer.

OK so on re-read it's even worse. I'm doubtful that 36 comes from a newbie with a PR role pm. There's some "scum caught for wrong reason" in 644. 722 & 727 is not a townie thought process.

If anybody has a reason why I shouldn't hammer right now, speak up, because my next post will contain a vote for woodboy.

[Accountant]

(I'm not analyzing D2 stances because Wood is confscum at that point)

On pure stances about Wood, I'd say that Loopdan comes out looking

slightly

better. Not talking to Wood at all early D1 is bad, but he was also inactive, so that partially explains why - and he went pretty hard attacking Wood after that. Tes shows a level of I guess hesitancy about woodboy, as if not sure how to sort him(or not sure if he should try to distance or protect his buddy?), and then his stance solidifies a bit more into suspicion after Grey's post about wood.

[Accountant]

Probably because I was the one who analyzed those interactions. I did not read the game in context and only looked at ISOs, which may be way I failed to grasp the bigger picture. Nevertheless, I'm going to see for myself.

[Accountant]

Yep, should've known it was Loopdan. Town has no reason to try to rush through LyLo like that, and I'm kicking myself for not seeing it earlier.

VOTE: Loopdan

[Accountant]

In a way I have to thank you; my decision was somewhat split, and I might have chosen the wrong person if you hadn't confirmed yourself as scum.

[Accountant]

Accountant did not forget about the possibility of scum self-hammering. Accountant is very experienced at mafia.

It was a genuine lapse in memory - I'm an IC, but I don't always remember to factor in everything. If you really thought this was a scumslip, you'd have pushed it earlier - you're just bringing it up now in a last ditch attempt to make me look bad.

[Accountant]

Also you're providing proof that I know what self hammering is and why mafia do it, which was never in dispute - I said as such that I forgot about the possibility, not that I didn't know about it. This is a pretty flimsy attempt to try to make me look bad for a genuine error.

[Accountant]

Optimal play is indeed to put caught scum at close to lynch, gamesolve until deadline, and then hammer. That's to the best of my knowledge, and you can't spin that as some kind of scum plot, because, well, ICs aren't allowed to lie about optimal play. So it was a genuine mistake.

You dropped the subject soon after bringing it up - if it really was a damning scumslip, and you thought so, you'd have pushed harder on it. Heck, or even bringing it up earlier today. You didn't because you don't actually care about hunting scum, you care about looking like you are and throwing shade on others in LyLo.

[Accountant]

Tes, I'm literally not allowed to lie about game theory as an IC, and I'm not unethical to intentionally do a bad job of ICing just to get a very slim advantage.

[Accountant]

FUDGE

I forgot that you can't unvote hammers. I have my fingers crossed
Accountant were you scum?

Nope.

[Accountant]

Yep, should've known it was Loopdan. Town has no reason to try to rush through LyLo like that, and I'm kicking myself for not seeing it earlier.

VOTE: Loopdan

Kick: Accountant

I don't get how you have all this mafia experience and don't realize that you think Loopdan is acting scummy,

until

I'm clear.

Can you rephrase your question/statement? I'm not sure what this means.

[Accountant]

I don't get how you have all this mafia experience and don't realize that you think Loopdan is acting scummy and then once I'm clear you're suddenly realizing that Loopdan had been rushing through LyLo.

Loopdan hasn't been acting scummy at all aside from the LyLo rush, which I kicked myself for not realizing earlier as a scum plot. I'm... not sure what you mean by this.

[Accountant]

In my interactions list? Because it's Loopdan giving a stance on Woodboy.

[Accountant]

To be honest, this game is getting a tad tedious. I don't know what else you want me to say; I've already talked to you about everything relevant.

[Accountant]

Accountant: You played along with Loopdan's 24 hour timer thing until Loopdan voted you. It doesn't make much sense and it doesn't give me the best feeling in the world.

Uhm? Do you seriously expect me to continue to play along with someone's stuff after they've confirmed themselves as scum? You can't be this bad a townie, right?

[Accountant]

Why is it scummy for me to do so?

[Accountant]

Okay... let me try to slow this down for you. Suppose I am town. In that case, it would definitely be the case that I didn't see how scummy Loopdan's behavior was until he confirmed himself as scum, which gave me the benefit of hindsight. This is scenario A. Now suppose I was scum. Then I'd be playing along to get Loopdan to vote you. This is scenario B.

Can you explain to me why you feel my playing along is scenario B playing rather than scenario A playing?

Also, you don't think trying to rush through LyLo like that is suspicious?

[Accountant]

Accountant quick question did you think Loopdan was trolling when he said he would vote somebody in 24 hours?

No. There's no reason to do so, as either alignment, since trolling just makes him look bad.

[Accountant]

Accountant quick question did you think Loopdan was trolling when he said he would vote somebody in 24 hours?

No. There's no reason to do so, as either alignment, since trolling just makes him look bad.

Or not necessarily trolling but just lying to get us to speak up?

It didn't strike me that way.

[Accountant]

I felt really disengaged this game. Scum partner died and tes got conf'd. Not a game I was super motivated to play, but I think I tried my best. LyLo has always been my weakness, as either alignment.

[Accountant]

@Drixx: What about me?

[Accountant]

RC is piss-easy to lynch in LyLo because he's scum if he makes it to LyLo

[Accountant]

And yeah. Assertiveness in LyLo is a problem. I often feel like I don't want to rock the boat as either align.

[Accountant]

Sounds like a pretty fun game.

[Accountant]

Probably the fact that I'm Accountant and therefore cursed to do badly in LyLos