[FEBRUARY CHALLENGE] Voting!
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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Do dead players show up in the parole list? Say someone is made a parolee and shot by the vig at the same time, are they then put on the parole list?
Additionally, say Player A is targeted by the town parole officer and performs the kill in the same nightphase. Does the player show up as guilty?This is a Parachute.-
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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Eh. I think it's more relevant to note that if two players are put on parole, one is almost certainly town. I'd probably avoid adding anyone as the scum parole officer for that reason, especially because if the vig is put on parole the mechanic becomes useless until the vig dies, so it's not particularly damning anyway. Additionally, as scum I'd consider having someone on parole kill after there're a few names on the list to make people think that all scum are on parole. Basically, it seems like it's a bunch of extra information, but it boils down to WIFOM. I kinda like that it can be an unreliable tracker if parole happens before kill though.
Yes. Not only do you have a 25% chance instead of a 16.7% chance of hitting scum, if you hit scum early it conftowns the remaining players AND you don't have to worry about outing your power by running them up until you find the mafia councilor. D1 Mafia councilor lynch means a D2 with 3 confirmed town. D1 Town councilor lynch means the vig shoots. You have a roughly 58% chance of a mafia flip before D2 and a 100% chance of a mafia flip before D3. So in the second best case for scum it works out to be the same as 2v9 with two days of associations. Mafia is obviously in a better position if they hit the vig N1, but that's not a very likely outcome. Honestly, I think a smaller player pool would make the game more interesting.In post 14, northsidegal wrote:I think the optimal strategy there is to always lynch from within the council, yeah.This is a Parachute.-
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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That doesn't work. After the Mafia Councillor dies the mafia just shoots the remaining Councillors for three extra kills. Maybe if you have it be every time a Town councillor is lynched, in which case you leave the Councillors to the vig, but balance via extra kills is very iffy.This is a Parachute.-
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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I kinda prefer the WIFOM of letting scum choose the lovers, but it's probably a little bit scum siding. True love (And I think your numbers by extrapolation, but I'm not checking atm) is exactly 50% EV, so you might need to add something to town to make up for it/further distinguish the setup.This is a Parachute.-
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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I very much doubt that's scumsided. If a member of a pair flips scum, the other member is conftown, so you have a 1/4 chance of an IC that can't be dealt with after the first lynch. I have a feeling that the observed winrate will be a bit above EV as well.
Also, you might want to put something in the setup about ending it early if a town win is inevitable (two scum lynches whose partners are living and town has 2 confirmed players to scum's remaining one.)This is a Parachute.-
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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Oh. I misunderstood then.In post 27, implosion wrote:
The setup isn't nightless, and scum have a nightkill starting night 1. So the setup will become 3:8 mountainous, modulo the additional information. Scum will likely kill any conftown.In post 26, Jingle wrote:I very much doubt that's scumsided. If a member of a pair flips scum, the other member is conftown, so you have a 1/4 chance of an IC that can't be dealt with after the first lynch. I have a feeling that the observed winrate will be a bit above EV as well.
Also, you might want to put something in the setup about ending it early if a town win is inevitable (two scum lynches whose partners are living and town has 2 confirmed players to scum's remaining one.)
Is the set made public? Like, I get that if it's a majority it's obvious, but do you tell the players what the randomly chosen group is if no majority is reached?RadiantCowbells wrote:Each day before lynching town must vote on an arbitrary sized set of players to be sent to party B instead of party AThis is a Parachute.-
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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First, you only have to pair once. If Player A guides Player B, Player B is guided by player A. Second, you already answered the question by saying the same person could be guide and guidee of another player, but my question was whether you were forcing a complete loop, such that if you travel from guide to guidee from one player you go through every player before reaching your starting point.In post 41, BuJaber wrote:
The pairings only occur once pre-game. So if someone is lynched their guidee becomes vanilla. They won't know though because that information wouldn't be revealed in the flip. It is possible therefore for scum to effectively have no nightkill depending on who dies when. Balance wise I think it shouldn't be a big deal given the high number of scum. If I come up with a more elegant approach I'll change this though.In post 40, Jingle wrote:Hmm... What happens when a person is lynched? Does the ring shrink or is that person's guidee vanilla?
And how is the pairing determined? Is it forced to be one circle or can two separate loops form?
I'm not sure I understand the 2nd question. But the guide pairing is independent from the guidee pairing. A player could have two different players or the same player. In other words player A guides player B. Player B may guide player A or may guide player C. You just can't have:
-mafia guiding mafia
-one player guiding two players
-two players guiding the same player
I'm sure someone smarter than me has a better way of randomizing it but the easiest way I came up with is to randomize the playerlist normally, then number them 1-12, where players 1-4 are scum and then you pair 1 with 12, 2 with 11 etc. That's one pairing. Then randomize just the townies (no. 5-12), re-number them, and pair the whole list again the same way.
I feel like massclaiming guidee's D1 and then never targetting is probably the highest EV for the setup because it's mountainous nightless with a bunch of impossible pairs. I think you should consider leaving the option of mafia pairing as a chance so that you can't confirm town with a scumlynch.This is a Parachute.-
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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Say I have 6 players, A B C D E F G.
A Guides B
B Guides E
C Guides A
D Guides F
E Guides C
F Guides D
I don't have to randomize again because the Guidee's are controlled by who is guiding them. C, for example, is guided by E, so C is Guidee to E. Also, you can fully randomize the setup with 2 list randomizations.
First randomization is numbered 1-12. 1-4 are scum. Second randomization #1 is removed from the list. The first four town names are guided by 1-4. The other seven names are assigned in order, but if a player would be assigned to themselves they are instead assigned to the next person in line. Player one is guided by the last person out. This gives a slightly > chance for a player to be assigned the player after them in the list, but not enough of one to be significant and the list wouldn't be published to abuse anyway.This is a Parachute.-
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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Giving RC's some thought I think it's probably scumsided. The mechanic feels ~tracker. Similarly to a tracker, the results aren't conclusive for innocents until you've lynched all but one scum. There is very little potential for early guilties. There is no conftown power role. There IS a high potential for late game revelations that turn the early information into useful info.
Seems like it'd be crazy complicated to calculate EV though.This is a Parachute.-
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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I'm opposed to modkills as a balancing agent. You could make it so that guesses are submitted via PM and a valid guess is published by the mod and not have to deal with modkills being in the setup rules.
I think modifying the wilderness is preferable than a hail mary, but that's just me. You could also make Wilderness lynch an N-M threshhold, where N is the number of players and M is the number of living mafia.This is a Parachute.-
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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Yes. Subtraction is hard.In post 63, implosion wrote:that's okay, some people are incorrect about things sometimes!This is a Parachute.-
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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I just noticed that 1+1+2+8 is 12.In post 66, BBmolla wrote:14 players:
1 Mafia Head
2 Mafia Goons
1 Town Headhunter
8 Vanilla TowniesThis is a Parachute.-
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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Collected all the setups in the thread. I'll probably try to keep this updated, and presumably if we're saying one submission per person the last one is the submission. I did standardize formatting into spoilers.
Last edited by Jingle on Thu Feb 14, 2019 6:12 am, edited 1 time in total.This is a Parachute.-
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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I wasn't saying the 25% was inherently good or bad, just talking to myself mostly.
You also have the advantage of the day one lynch being on either scum or a powerrole you're not concerned about losing.
A thought occurs: Scum A and Scum B both target Player C and guess Player C's role correctly. Who get's the power? What if A also guesses D's role and B also guesses E's role?This is a Parachute.-
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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Bump to reminder that tomorrow is the submission deadline.
Do we know how the voting is gonna work this month?
I honestly don't see why we can't do it publicly. Winning doesn't have a prize and public feedback should mean a better idea of the kind of setups people like, which should increase quality in future months.This is a Parachute.-
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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Kay, I'm gonna vote and put thoughts on the setups now. If we decide against public voting just assume I've changed all of my opinions. Also, I'm leaving mine out.
In order from favorite to least favorite:
Tough on Crime - I ran this during marathon with nsg's help. It was awesome.
Rivalries - I want to play this. If it doesn't win, I'll probably run it at some point.
Romeo, Romeo (Romeo, Romeo, Romeo, Mercutio) - I like the idea of Mafia choosing the lover pairs. Honestly, I'm not sure Mercutio is as important to the setup as anything other than a named townie, but the discussions of who would choose who as their partner seems interesting to me.
House Party - I'm a fan of leaving power in the hands of the majority instead of having power roles, especially in opens.
Three Pods - I'm signed up to play a similar game run by BNL in the micro queue.
three strikes - Seems like an interesting setup for people who like dayplay heavy games. Not my cup of tea, but I'm not necessarily the target audience.
The Representative - I want to dislike this because it seems overly complicated, but looking at it I feel like it deserves to be run to see how things actually pan out. I think honestly the complication is more in the description than the running. I will say that I'm reluctant to endorse a setup where the lynch is decided by players who are basically already dead.
The Wilderness - I like it, but honestly I think it might be a little too complicated for an open.
City Council V3 - Probably balanced, but not a big fan of having a separate pool for vig shots mechanically built in. I'd play it with the right playerlist though.
The Boardroom 3: Shredded Documents - I'm not a fan. Seems complicated, redacted flips, and I don't really like the idea of a lynch-in-private mechanic.
Guidance - As written, I think it's probably unbalanced. With that said, I know Buj has been working on a revision, and I think the setup has promise. I'm just not sure that the setup is ready as is.
Recruitment - Bigger than I'd prefer and I'm not a huge fan of redacted flips.
Face Eaters - I'm putting this at the bottom because it technically doesn't meet the requirements.This is a Parachute.-
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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Adding my own:
In post 112, Jingle wrote:Tough on Crime - I ran this during marathon with nsg's help. It was awesome.
Rivalries - I want to play this. If it doesn't win, I'll probably run it at some point.
Love Em and Leave Em.
Romeo, Romeo (Romeo, Romeo, Romeo, Mercutio) - I like the idea of Mafia choosing the lover pairs. Honestly, I'm not sure Mercutio is as important to the setup as anything other than a named townie, but the discussions of who would choose who as their partner seems interesting to me.
House Party - I'm a fan of leaving power in the hands of the majority instead of having power roles, especially in opens.
Three Pods - I'm signed up to play a similar game run by BNL in the micro queue.
three strikes - Seems like an interesting setup for people who like dayplay heavy games. Not my cup of tea, but I'm not necessarily the target audience.
The Representative - I want to dislike this because it seems overly complicated, but looking at it I feel like it deserves to be run to see how things actually pan out. I think honestly the complication is more in the description than the running. I will say that I'm reluctant to endorse a setup where the lynch is decided by players who are basically already dead.
The Wilderness - I like it, but honestly I think it might be a little too complicated for an open.
City Council V3 - Probably balanced, but not a big fan of having a separate pool for vig shots mechanically built in. I'd play it with the right playerlist though.
The Boardroom 3: Shredded Documents - I'm not a fan. Seems complicated, redacted flips, and I don't really like the idea of a lynch-in-private mechanic.
Guidance - As written, I think it's probably unbalanced. With that said, I know Buj has been working on a revision, and I think the setup has promise. I'm just not sure that the setup is ready as is.
Recruitment - Bigger than I'd prefer and I'm not a huge fan of redacted flips.
Face Eaters - I'm putting this at the bottom because it technically doesn't meet the requirements.This is a Parachute.-
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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Probably wouldn't change my position, tbh. :shrug:In post 122, Awoo wrote:Yeah just pretend I submitted boardroom 2 - 3 isn't quite rightThis is a Parachute.-
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Jingle For Whom the Bell Trolls
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