Team Mafia 2018: Game 3 - Random GIFs Game Over

[Elena Fisher]

Hello.

[Elena Fisher]

How about an icebreaker question.

How much are you going to let your teams reads influence you or do you plan on going more solo?

[Elena Fisher]

I'm definitely going to be taking their input onboard because that's part of the fun of the team thing and I also think it'll help with my weaknesses as town. But only to the extent that I agree with it or find it worth pursuing, since I'm the one playing the game.

Why no vote when we already have some information rather than starting from scratch?

Also keen to hear your answer to your question.

What information do we have here? Also why do you feel like (or want) me to vote? It's a RVS vote and it does not acomplish much at all this talk on "Player A prefs (town/scum)" is a huge wifom fest like I could tell you: My mains pref scum but on my tryhard account I pref town but that really does help nothing because it's a huge wifom as I already said
What does voting do for you

As to answer your question (or my own) I will mostly be working solo/not asking for help as I want to be the helper not the help...e? If my team has a strong read I will hear it but mostly I will be doing things myself why did you want my answer over others?

VOTE: almost50


theres a difference between spamming (lmfao ethers game) and posting a lot. i am a very active poster, i like to sort people with real-time interactions

also, i don't know about the italicized really, but she is good at scum yea. giga did agree keychain is good at scum, but she really doesn't like it. though, i supposed based on their team they dont have anyone i consider overly likely to pick scum. guess i wont lock town them, but they can be town for now.

I don't think you should be paranoia reading someone the logic of "This person is good at scum so don't tr them for ___" has really left a bad taste in my mouth (personal bias aside) it seems like a really easy excuse for scum to make to stop trs

I wouldn't, because you as scum are gonna answer whatever benefits you most. And yeah NSG was the one who said that.

I did the research on as many players as I could in the 30 mins before gamestart. After I posted, NSG called me out and took it up with me, lol.

Help me read skirt?

Thought exercise:

You and Skirt shared an interaction on Page 1 regarding pregame meta choice reads.

You had some divergence of opinions but the posts where you go more indepth on your feelings of what might be meta are essentially the same form/type of content, agree?

If so, I want you to do something for me. Go examine your post (also hi, I probably should have opened with this but you're town ftr. I'm 1000% convinced) and then examine Skirt's posting and tell me if you can identify a difference. If you can't or you would rather I show you before you saying things (given I have a town read on you, I'm fine with this), I'll explain.

But basically, I want to see if you see what I see before I bias you. Because I have a read on skirt.

Interested to hear this I hope to see some sort of scum motivation instead of dif in play as first pinged me

i wonder if you're going to call me out for being too agreeing or if you have something more interesting cooked up

Do you find being super agreeing and friendly scummy? More so I should ask if you find buddying scummy in this case

#SheepingMathDino

hrm
VOTE: LLD

[Elena Fisher]

Skirt mimics your answers, sure, and that's not nearly as big of an issue as his lack of CONVICTION in doing so. I would expect a town player to either hard agree or hard disagree when you take a stance like you did, but he kind of.... sat the fence, tonally and content wise.

Skirts list felt like more of a joke then Math's did to me that's why I understand the lack of unnf behind the post. I'm still trying to debate if Math is town or not and would love to hear how you got a giant blatant tr on that slot he places votes on someone assuming they got a scun pm without thinking posts team comp % it's a bunch of weak stuff that I can see scum trying to use to have a reason to vote don't you think if someone is likely to take a scum pm they wouldn't do it for that exact reason. Quite simple really pushing on that logic is bad and wrong

I'm trying to understand what you're saying but I'm seriously not getting it, so I'll just tell you what I've been thinking and you explain in full instead of leading me.

The amount of convergence that skirt and I are having is unreal, and the fact that he locked an immediate townread on me for doing Mathdino-y things was highly concerning.

Then the fact that he sheeps me and is generally super friendly with me and my logic to the point of my pointing out one detail influencing his opinion?

I think skirt skirt is scum. Wasn't gonna say anything yet. I like my vote where it is given that I have more confidence in my ability to read A50 than skirt skirt.

If you think I left something out, lemme know, but otherwise it's your turn.

Edit: GOTTEMMMMMMMM

This post also screams convenient to me
I don't like either of your slots so far but maybe you can prove me incorrect.

[Elena Fisher]

Hey just so everyone's aware (and this is near the pagetop so all of team mafia can see it):

PROBABILITIES FOR TEAM COMPOSITION

Crunched some numbers. From a spectator's standpoint, a random team has a:

33% chance of getting all 5 town.
41% chance of getting 4 town 1 scum.
20% chance of getting 3 town 2 scum.
5% chance of getting 2 town 3 scum.
Negligible probabilities otherwise.

I'm currently toying with the idea that

going out of your way to tell people

"My team got all 5 town PMs"

without being prompted to answer this kind of question

is a scumclaim.

Will letcha know if I've made any progress on this.

Edit: skirt's response is concerning, yeah. I want more eyes.

I believe it is in the rules for us to say "we all got 5 town pms" and we're not allowed to say otherwise.

I spoke to my team about whos read this game just for you baby

transcend called dino town, giga eyerolled at lld's scumread of me and called them gut town

This seems very shallow.

I somewhat was tring the post mostly because the way Eddie said the little events seemed like they really happened where as scum Eddie/skirt would have to make of these events interested to see more although nothing skirt has posted in this game has made me tr him yet (or I could be lying who knows)

All caught up

[Elena Fisher]

Perfectly fine with my LLD vote as I think her stance against skirt was just really bad and taking advantage of the situation at hand from what I gather Math seems like a stupidly easy person to pocket and maybe LLD caught onto that.

[Elena Fisher]

(Wow people are online and active? This is nice)

If you read the actual game, for more than actual cherry picking, you'd know this is actually not true because

Skirt Skirt was the one to suggest that he and Math discuss pre-game meta things.

What makes you think I'm cherry picking? I have been reading the game maybe I got the events in question mixed up but I don't believe I did

I'm very confused as to why skirt's teammates weren't actively following this game in particular.

@Elena

: In a team of high quality scum players, I agree that someone likely to take scum would purposefully avoid it (that's actually why some are avoiding voting LLD; I'm confused why you jumped on anyway). HOWEVER, in the case of a high skill differential between players, when there's really a single obvious choice for scum on a team, I think that's worth pursuing. A50 is better at scum than his teammates. Anyone else playing scum here would likely flounder. There's a 66% chance his team got a scum role PM and as an INITIAL VOTE in the FIRST POST OF THE GAME when ONLY SIX PEOPLE HAD POSTED I think that's a fair vote. I'm not gonna switch until I see content.

I don't understand what's convenient about that post. It's literally what I was thinking and what I'd been talking to my teammates about. I also have a tendency of getting buddied by rational-type players and then getting pocketed, so.

You also didn't read the italics. Yes, if anyone asks "how many scum role PMs did you get" the answer is always "0". THE PROBLEM is using the logic of "I'm town because we got 5 town role PMs, but I would've taken scum if we got any of those".

Do you see no issue with going out of your way to say that?

So you believe Almost50 took a scum pm if there team had one because the other memebers on it would be bad on scum? There are many things wrong with this because of factors and variables we have no way of knowing maybe he's a pr he really enjoys maybe they got no scum pms etc etc I think the vote is bad I wouldn't mind if the vote wasn't srs but the fact you're basing it on this logic just seems like a reach from me from someone who seems to take a lot of steps into account

PREGAME iMPRESsiONS TiME #CONTENT

T-Bone, From Young and Beautiful - haven't played with you in ... a long time.
Lady Lambdadelta , From DEFCON - one of the best players. also one of the biggest egos. actively expect i'll get in a shouting match with lld at some point.
Keychain, From Team Cuddly - we were gonna have you <3 i'll let giga meta you. newish, goodish, townish.
Aeronaut, From Relaxed Nature - meh
ChannelDelibird, From God Save the Black Goo - meh
Bins, From Make Papa Proud - meh
Dunkerdoodles, From Chillplay Bombahskiies - ew. probably town because he's complete lynchbait and #teammeta i don't think boon would give him scum
Bulbazak, From Queue Agents - good.php
Smocaine, From Who is John Galt? - the best kind of lynchbait.
Mathdino, From Serious Business - good.php. tryhard iirc. haven't played much.
Radja, From Dandy Irate Hoes - last game we played they subbed out due to irl and havent since . ? i
Elena Fisher, From Backhanded Remarks - mariAAAAAA
UC Voyager, From Spam Squad - roflcopter
Almost50, From Sauciety - good player that i dont really know much about other than they generally seem good ?


this concludes a useless post

who wants to play the game of would.this.person.have.taken.a.scum.pm with me?

In this post he even kind of gets his "joking pre-game quick read shit" out of the way, calls it useless, and then asks for someone to play the "who would take scum PM" game with him

How can that sequence of events be interpreted as a joke if you actualy read that sequence of events? I don't understand.

The post you just qouted is the one you're mainly sr Skirt for yes? This is clearly a joke post with barely if any thought behind it if this is not the post in question you're sring skirt for let me know.

[Elena Fisher]

Perfectly fine with my LLD vote as I think her stance against skirt was just really bad and taking advantage of the situation at hand from what I gather Math seems like a stupidly easy person to pocket and maybe LLD caught onto that.

Look at this point I'm defending my pride here. I had the "skirt is almost definitely scum" idea in my mind from around 15 posts in. But seeing as he was the only one around to talk to me, I decided to work with him and generate some content for others to look into. I wasn't initially planning on revealing this scumread until we had everyone check in.

When she started pushing skirt and then pushed me to give thoughts on him, that's when I dropped the logic from earlier.

You seem to have this impression that just because everyone (or a really good player) says some guy is scum and writes a fancy case, I'll agree with it.

I seem like I'm easy to pocket because I'm friendly and I treat everyone like they're town while talking to them.

I guess we'll just have to see then.

Because in the last game I played with you you posted a bunch of votals and numbers things to look townie. You flipped scum.

I like this feels real and not fake Smocaine taking an aggro approach like this feels towny (a bit of meta too)

[Elena Fisher]

I would take scum if we rolled scum (lol we all rolled town I stg not that you know that) if we valued winning over everything because I have a significantly better scum wr than my team afaik, but I wouldn't if we were playing more socially and for fun.

I adamantly believe Keychain and Dunker are town off of this game, Radja I guess I agree. Bins from what I remember hates scum so yea that's fine too. Don't know CDB or T-Bone play-wise at all so no comment.

UCV... I guess. No clue for bulba. LLD, A50, Smoke, definitely realistic for scum. I haven't actually seen A50s scum game I don't think, but iirc Chara said A50 is their scummer?

There are others in the string of posts that are kind of in the same offensive vein, but this is the post that is most damning to me.

I dislike his reads on the meta part of "player would take ____" but I hate everyone who would do that I don't see anything in this post that pings me like "SCUM SCUM SCUM" tell me a bit more detail?

...yes. And I know I'm not alone in that because this is very agreed upon Team Mafia logic. When people can choose their alignments, it changes things.

You're reading wayyy too far into it. An early vote/wagon is intended to generate pressure. This forces the target to generate readable content. From the standpoint of my very first post, knowing nothing about the gamestate, A50 seemed by far the most likely person to be scum. Because of any team, I believe his has the most skill differential in scumplay.

I guess I can somewhat understand this view point I still dislike the standpoint of the read I guess the only thing that will help fix this issue is see how you progress with this almost50 read
Pedit: LLD I will happily listen to you we clearly misunderstood what post (or I did) was in question here. I don't think anyone has gone like "haha don't listen to LLD"

[Elena Fisher]

I'm not trying to 1v1 LLD I just want her to quote the 2 posts in question between you and skirt and say why skirts is bad (or just quote the 2 posts and I'll go look at her reasons again) because I clearly thought it was the wrong post.
Also how dare you call me derptown I'm offended!

[Elena Fisher]

I would take scum if we rolled scum (lol we all rolled town I stg not that you know that) if we valued winning over everything because I have a significantly better scum wr than my team afaik, but I wouldn't if we were playing more socially and for fun.

I adamantly believe Keychain and Dunker are town off of this game, Radja I guess I agree. Bins from what I remember hates scum so yea that's fine too. Don't know CDB or T-Bone play-wise at all so no comment.

UCV... I guess. No clue for bulba. LLD, A50, Smoke, definitely realistic for scum. I haven't actually seen A50s scum game I don't think, but iirc Chara said A50 is their scummer?

There are others in the string of posts that are kind of in the same offensive vein, but this is the post that is most damning to me.

I dislike his reads on the meta part of "player would take ____" but I hate everyone who would do that I don't see anything in this post that pings me like "SCUM SCUM SCUM" tell me a bit more detail?

...yes. And I know I'm not alone in that because this is very agreed upon Team Mafia logic. When people can choose their alignments, it changes things.

You're reading wayyy too far into it. An early vote/wagon is intended to generate pressure. This forces the target to generate readable content. From the standpoint of my very first post, knowing nothing about the gamestate, A50 seemed by far the most likely person to be scum. Because of any team, I believe his has the most skill differential in scumplay.

I guess I can somewhat understand this view point I still dislike the standpoint of the read I guess the only thing that will help fix this issue is see how you progress with this almost50 read
Pedit: LLD I will happily listen to you we clearly misunderstood what post (or I did) was in question here. I don't think anyone has gone like "haha don't listen to LLD"

Happy to reiterate.

As explained earlier, the difference that startled me between Mathdino and SkirtSkirt is CONVICTION. You can tell that whether Mathdino puts much stock in these early game meta reads or not, this is what he believes and he stands behind it. This is what I expect town to do in this position, in this game, with that post.

SkirtSkirt does NOT hold that same tonal conviction. He doesn't show that same kind of presentation of his reads, he won't live or die by them and that's reasonable given they're early meta reads but it strikes me that despite being "Reasonable" this is how I would expect scum to handle that particular position. They would play safer, and not get locked down in those meta reads. It gives them something to point back to, to say "I have a progression of reads, starting with some early suspicion here" but not actually commiting anything.

Whether anyone would actually call them out for commiting to something they felt was wrong is irrelevant here. It is whether scum would be concerned this would happen. Scum are far more paranoid than town with this kind of action, especially early.

That's the problem. That'[s why Math is town and Skirt isn't, in my mind.

Alright thank you I fully understand your view point on this now
UNVOTE:
Hrm I need to rethink I dislike where my mind is taking me with this stance on the game but I'll wait for others to check in

[Elena Fisher]

I'm not trying to 1v1 LLD I just want her to quote the 2 posts in question between you and skirt and say why skirts is bad (or just quote the 2 posts and I'll go look at her reasons again) because I clearly thought it was the wrong post.
Also how dare you call me derptown I'm offended!

Misunderstanding my logic (or being opposed to probabilistic reasoning in general) often strikes me as a towntell. Scum are afraid to get in logical arguments with me that they could lose.

And I'm referring to the LLD vs skirt 1v1 moreso. I don't want that to take up the entire early game. Knowing LLD it has the potential to turn into some gladiator match. Tbh I was gonna purposefully stop posting for a bit so we could get others but I couldn't resist responding to shit

Side note I know what you mean but part of me has the urge to get in a debate with you because I love talking theory so much but this isn't the game time or place

sigh

a girl can dream.

[Elena Fisher]

I also claim really great at scum

[Elena Fisher]

I also claim really great at scum

IS THIS MARIA?


True.
I used to be good but I feel I’m just always lynched and scumread even as town now.

Yes this is Maria Maki/Sonia hi bins! Still the host of my first ever scum game <3

(Why are you playing on Elena people who know me might ask)
Elena is what I consider my "tryhard account" quote on quote

[Elena Fisher]

Why pick town then, Elena?

As the "captain" I thought it be best I take whatever was left and I got this.

[Elena Fisher]

I'm also not sure I fully trust Maria. Just based on her team and who would pick scum.

Exactly why I said I pref to be town even if I was the "fill"

[Elena Fisher]

Your post was pretty full of nothing or topics already said Bins but It feels somewhat town on the thought process through everything. Why are you voting Almost50? How do you feel about LLD

[Elena Fisher]

Btw bins and everyone who clearly doesn't understand

It's a rule that you can not say your team is anything but town

Saying your team got all town isn't AI it's an outright rule that we must follow

[Elena Fisher]

Oh look more people!

I'm definitely going to be taking their input onboard because that's part of the fun of the team thing and I also think it'll help with my weaknesses as town. But only to the extent that I agree with it or find it worth pursuing, since I'm the one playing the game.

Why no vote when we already have some information rather than starting from scratch?

Also keen to hear your answer to your question.

What information do we have here? Also why do you feel like (or want) me to vote? It's a RVS vote and it does not acomplish much at all this talk on "Player A prefs (town/scum)" is a huge wifom fest like I could tell you: My mains pref scum but on my tryhard account I pref town but that really does help nothing because it's a huge wifom as I already said
What does voting do for you

As to answer your question (or my own) I will mostly be working solo/not asking for help as I want to be the helper not the help...e? If my team has a strong read I will hear it but mostly I will be doing things myself why did you want my answer over others?

The WIFOM

is

the information. Normally you start a game and town has zero information because everyone has the same chance of being scum. We started this game with just a little bit more. Obviously yes it isn't the be all and end all, but it's a starting point that you ignored and here seem to be arguing against using it at all. I suppose it makes sense since I've heard you'd be likely to pick a scum role if you had the option. Players expected to take scum (and especially who

did

take scum) will presumably always try and deemphasise the whole selection thing.

To me, voting builds game momentum. I guess to me it feels like... it's like we're all sitting in a car talking about where to go but it's only by placing votes that we actually move anywhere. That's just me though.

I wanted your answer because you asked the question but didn't answer it.

VOTE: Elena Fisher

Your icebreaker question was awkward and most of your early content in 66 and onwards was putting the brakes on rather than advancing the game with what you thought we should be doing instead.

I sometimes find it hard to read your posts, my apologies. After 102 are you still scumreading LLD?

I don't have LLD as "scum" I can see her flipping scum though although I have a bit of whiplash given the vote was on somewhat of a misunderstanding and as I said I wouldn't pick scum if I had the chance (but blah self meta) I was arguing against it because the point is

Yes we get to choose who gets town/scum if we have the choice but every player knows it and can use to amount the info like "ok no one would expect me to take scum/town" and use it that way that's why I hate that people are using it for a huge base of there read I don't mind it as much if it was a supporting ground to a read you have but not the full thing. Also how dare you call my icebreaker question awkward I needed that info!

[Elena Fisher]

why would i pick scum when i have a trash scum record.

You answered your own question btw.

[Elena Fisher]

Elena is town from a few personal tells

I'm sorry have we played together before? Also, care to say why or is that a no comment for now.

[Elena Fisher]

wait this is a game for fun?
Wtf @mod sub me out

pls no have mercy smith ;-;

[Elena Fisher]

Assuming you're own; underestimating Scum!Maria would be a fatal mistake. She managed to fool both me and Chara (and even Mastina) or recent game (playing with her Maki account). Not SRing her myself, but I'd be very very cautious declaring her Town too.

Aw stop I'm blushing.

[Elena Fisher]

@mod v/la for 2 days it's my birthday break!

[Elena Fisher]

Will read tomorrow party time is over sadly

[Elena Fisher]

Hello hello I shall hopefully catch up now

[Elena Fisher]

I'm most likely going to get my team to help me read her and see if I am not biased but I did skim a bit and right now I want to vote Bins I had her as a tr but her play around my slot overall feels very weird and half assed. She says she's scared of me so that makes me scum I feel if she was really scared of me she'd try to read me better or ask her teammates about me but for now it only seems I am scum because I am scary it feels like a very weak excuse not something that means you're trying to solve the game.
VOTE: Bins
back to catch up

[Elena Fisher]

Also something I was reflecting or thinking on is scum are basically 5 person hydras because teammates have to help you convince the others you're town and make up good reads and I guess that didn't fully hit me until I thought it over because I was tring a few people because of what was paraphrased from some of there teammates but I suppose I shouldn't do that anymore just a random thought that popped into my head

[Elena Fisher]

I don't feel great about disagreeing with Creature, but for now, sure.
VOTE: Bins

like

i don’t know how i go from “probtown” to becoming a contender for you
like paranoia is real

What's wrong with paranoia? I believe everyone has been shakey on a read before do you think his push is strange or are you just somewhat upset over this?

Hey Almost, where did your Bins vote come from? I can't find anything to support it in your iso.

Yeah, I know, we're very different players, it's hilarious. I'm not super high on patience right now and would really like to be able to get a stronger foothold in this game. Please, if you want the town to win (or want to appear like you do), just indulge me a bit and talk about it, even if most of the answer involves explaining why I'm an idiot for asking.

This feels very geniune to me I like this post by Channel (sidenote it feels really good to be in a playerlist like this I want to thank you all I'm enjoying this game a lot)

I don't think A50 is a viable lynch today, guys. What he said actually makes sense.

I'm slowly gaining interest in a potential CDB wagon.

This is a weird D1.

I agree with this post even though almost50 is triggering me somewhat with the "don't tr Elena/Maria cause she's good at scum" (I somewhat understand doesn't make me any less "I wanna choke you"

I've read up tot his point, I just got off work and about to go get baked so depending on how the night goes I plan on doing a big catchup post involving telling certain players to fuck off about me being bad, reads, responses, etc. I'll either do it tomorrow or in a few hours. If There's anything urgent you want from me, lmk, I'll still probably keep up with the thread.

Can anyone spot the mindset problem?

Why don't you share with the class

[Elena Fisher]

(Catching up this way is a pain I rather just engage with keychain bulba and skirt on reads atm but beggars can't be choosers)

[Elena Fisher]

Final thoughts before bed tonight: I'm still not happy with Almost. My vote would be there if I didn't want Skirt dead. Not really feeling the Bins or CDB scumreads. Bins in particular doesn't look like the Bins from 17 Kilos. She's essentially lynch bait, and I feel like we'd be seeing a different type of defense if she was scum, and that she'd be kicking up more AtE. I have no idea what to think of Dunker right now.

I want to know more about this since our reads are basically on the other end of the world but I'm liking you for town

@math

the problem here is the sentance "you're misunderstanding my content"

like dude, i can read for myself. i'm reading your content. i don't like your content. i don't see why it's such a big deal.
no one else is scumreading you. why do you have a problem with me scumreading you?

i'm just some noobb right? my reads don't matter cause i'm bad? this is what im getting from that last post, yet you still find the need to pick apart every bit of my post and tell me why it's bad. the funniest part of it all?
you're not even scumreading me

you see where the contradictions come in. you're think my posts are bad, yet im you don't scumread me. you say my read is bad and irrelevant, yet you defend yourself from my points.

If dunker is scum I'm gonna jump out a window naked saying I say satan at this point

my reads currently have

a50, elena, skirtskirt/LLD (not sure which)
in the "worry" pile

As I said this is my problem with you why not ask me questions Bins why not try to engage me more if you're worried about me and I could be scum ask me things it's more content on both sides of the engagement but it doesn't seem like you care

Is Mathdino provably not a mathblade alt?

Shhhhh stop it blade is modding a game

[Elena Fisher]

I'm mostly caught up and as I expected I didn't really get much from my catch up because that didn't help my playstyle
(also not really shocked the players who know me are sring me but oh well I don't believe I'm getting lynched today thankfully)

[Elena Fisher]

now if you need me let me know while I go rant in my team chat.
Pedit: I don't think I will be lynched at all this game Math sorry to say.
Pedit2: Of course you can almost

[Elena Fisher]

Skirt Dunker
Channel Bulbazak,
Radja,
T-bone Aeronaut Smocaine UC Voyager,
Keychain
Bins LLD

Almost50 Mathdino, (no comment for now as I don't want to go into detail on these)
feels good for now read wise

[Elena Fisher]

Edit: Elena, to be clear, you're townreading both of us? You didn't go into detail on anyone else; I understand not wanting to go into detail but not giving a read at all is weird.

I'm not going to say what my read on both of your slot is until later for reasons I don't feel the need to go into find it "weird" if you must.

[Elena Fisher]

(also not really shocked the players who know me are sring me but oh well I don't believe I'm getting lynched today thankfully)

I'm not exactly SRing you, bu I

am

pretty wary and cautious when it comes to you. Scum!You beat me TWICE (the first time was the Dunn game where you were Scum with Nahdia if I recall correctly). To my recollection the only player who beat me more (with them being Scum) is cerb, so OF COURSE I'm wary of you.

I wasn't really talking about you the only problem I had with you is I felt you were saying "don't tr me because I good at scum" and that's...personal bias but I see where you're coming from. I'm more talking about the people who are team watching because I don't think they know how I play on Elena there's a reason I

rarely

play on this account it's because I am so different then I am on Maria/Maki people were shocked when I showed them it was me because I go at games in a whole dif angle the only person from another team who I'd be interested in hearing how they feel about me would be RC

[Elena Fisher]

We're not lynching A50 today is all I will say on the matter

[Elena Fisher]

>When Chara disagrees with you on some of your top tr's...oh no

[Elena Fisher]

1) Do you think paranoia is scummy or are you calling it out for the sake of calling it out
2) fair enough
3) Why am I a scumread in the first place I thought I was just a "worry" as in "you think I'm scary so you have me in poe" I didn't know you were scumreading me.

[Elena Fisher]

if elena is actually town i need to rethink

What's so groundbreaking if I am?

[Elena Fisher]

You can engage with me. You post a post and I'll respond to the post when I can, it'll be great. What did you want to talk about?

I am your top sr so why don't you state why you sr me and ask me a few questions and I'll do some in return it seems for me being your top sr you haven't done much to push me or show I'm scum.
sound good?

[Elena Fisher]

Time for another game of me and matt tunneling each other calling each other scum I see!

[Elena Fisher]

189 and Zach's agreement in 330 are the only things I've said about my scumread on you, yes. When Zach said that I was like... yeah, actually, you said something that made way more sense as scum having fun.

I would like to hear more on why Zach thinks I'm playing on my tiptoes as I don't feel like I'm doing that at all observing the game state? Yes but tiptoes? No Zach should know I love playing as scum and I wouldn't be playing on my tip toes if that was the case.

This reaction was strange.

I'm not going to let a few words on the internet offended me calling me derptown. I know for a fact I'm a good player (At least I'd like to think so) and I'm not "derptown" do you feel I should've been offended?
The icebreaker question was needed because I wanted to see who I could talk reads on and people not just fall back on "oh my team said that" I can't really work with that at all whereas if people flesh out there reads I know I can poke and prod at them

I'm not focusing on you that much because there's 13 other players to pay attention to, and I feel better about my scumreads when I have everyone in mind at once which I don't right now. So I'd like to work through them to figure out if there's someone I should be pushing over you before I commit too hard to this. There's time.

If this is the case do you have any other sr's or really big tr's on mind?

I don't know why you'd be scumreading me apart from my vote on you and possibly a perceived lack of engagement with you.

You're mostly there on the reads list because I don't feel good putting you on the same tier with people above you I'd say I'm good calling Bins and LLD scum (although I might be biased on bins and I'm getting a friend to read bins as they can read her very easily) you seem confident to say the least on your sr on me so I found it strange you're just letting wagons like transcend/skirt or t-bone go by and you're not asking how I feel about them or trying to go "hey let's wagon Elena" it doesn't feel real or you're trying to game solve just having reads for the sake of having reads feel free to prove me wrong on this statement

When I was making my reads list I was looking over the players and I always ask "who would I lynch over ___" and this is the list I got so yes I guess I do sr LLD

Bins play around me is just outright weird she has me as "scared" and she's playing around my slot really badly and I feel now that I'm pushing on her she finally puts me as "scum" instead of "Oh Maria would take a scum role" it doesn't feel normal it's weird and scummy to me

Questions!:
How do you feel about the Skirt and T-bone wagons do you like them?
You talked on how people can pick there ali how much do you carry that as value in a read?
What is your fav type of pie?

[Elena Fisher]

I would like people who sr me just like key to try and case or say why and try to avoid things like awkward etc if you can. I like people trying to case me it's fun one of my favorite parts of mafia but it's hard to work with when it's stuff that is hard to defend with when it's simple disagreement
Why do people sr T-bone? I haven't seen anything that makes T-bone as obv scum as some are acting like he is Skirt skirt is also blatantly obv town imo I dislike both of these wagons

[Elena Fisher]

That's playing dirty...

[Elena Fisher]

Idea:

Shut the fuck up about who picked what alignment and treat this as a regular albeit bit more competitive game.

PREACH

[Elena Fisher]

Eddie's thing on T-bone wasn't really a case imo. Plus the t-bone wagon is really bad with the lack of resistance given half the game is okay with it and most of the times that means it's a town lynch

[Elena Fisher]

I see "bins is lynchbait" but bins isn't really lynchbait here...at all

[Elena Fisher]

Like she makes a ton of "I don't really care" or trying to act carefree posts. but her votes have been really really bad and when it comes to legit content it's just a bit of sheeping I haven't seen bins try to really gamesolve much at all.

[Elena Fisher]

T-bone is a town lynch though sigh...

[Elena Fisher]

if t-bone is scum that solidifies my elena scumread imo

also there are 3 scum
there’s definitely been at least 3 people neutral or against the tbone wagon
bad point

How does T-bone scum=me scum?
also it'd be 2 scum because 1 of the scum is t-bone in your theory and I don't think both scum would be outright against T-bone lynch unless he was a srsly strong mafia pr given nothing big is happening atm.
The game state has honestly been the same if you take away the pointless fighting.
Pedit: Please do call me out on it it'll be fun to hear your rebuttal

[Elena Fisher]

You're just making blatant bs posts at this point and I think you're smarter then this or I srsly have overestimated you

[Elena Fisher]

yes my "I sit on the fence so I can take credit for a lynch" reads that you've had all game.

[Elena Fisher]

Honestly just waiting for keychain at this point.

[Elena Fisher]

Can see Math flipping scum now that I've talked it over with my team and made sure I'm not crazy (it's why I put him in the no comment pile I wasn't in the mood to get yelled at)

Math/LLD/Bins atm

[Elena Fisher]

Why is Aeronaut getting a free pass btw I'm shocked they haven't been brought up at all. (Hell somewhat forgot they were here for the time being)
Pedit: Who is on my team isn't important at all.

[Elena Fisher]

I'm not trying to upset you, you're the one who "called me out" as you say so I'm simply calling you back out.

You're being fake

[Elena Fisher]

I'd happily wagon any of the 3 names I said but I clearly don't have the support for any of them.
You said no one has given you a reason for town t-bone
I counter that with no one gives me a reason for scum t-bone. Since you're so confident on that maybe you can be the one to give me said reason?
Pedit: Your reads to me feel like just taking the most popular stances and copying them. Although I guess that's somewhat weakish I'd pref to hear more or for you to flesh out your reads instead of that mini reads list you gave that'd prob help

[Elena Fisher]

elena i assume your math/LLD/bins team relies on me sheeping LLD

and then taking control of the game and bins sheeping all my reads?

What makes you think that before I answer?

[Elena Fisher]

I sr all 3 of you for dif reasons I never try to look for teams day 1 you're my strongest sr's who I think most likely have scum in it.

[Elena Fisher]

i have no idea anymore

i've repeatedly asked for people to hit up their teammates and look through a few people in this game and give reasons

either no one has done this, or no one can read A50 out of all 70 people in this tournament

i'm waiting on a read from chara

Chara and I both tr A50
Pedit: I don't think I'm being stubborn at all? I've opened tried to get a feel on you bins and asked my teammates to make sure I'm not bias reading here I just feel confident.

[Elena Fisher]

Like I get my points are hard to..refute I just think your play around my slot and how you seemingly put me in "scum" just because I'm Maria is just so slimy I feel like you're trying to coast by while putting in dashes of your town meta that's the base of my read on you.
I plan on getting Dunn to read you like...any minute now and talk it over.
Pedit: A50 shut up

[Elena Fisher]

Team mafia is townsided?
But you have 4 other teammates to help you make up fake scumreads and thoughts on the game

If anything I expected team mafia to be stupidly scum sided interesting.

[Elena Fisher]

You've haven't been here. I have been responding to you? I just can't respond to "you haven't been pushing anyone"/"you haven't been doing anything" when I just don't agree with it.

I don't think confidence like this is natural for someone like me when I'm town. If I'm confident, it's a scumtell for me.





-
tbh, A50 trolling like this is a GREAT scum tactic.
@Math - Yaaay, sheep RC about me! It's just the smart thing to do.

That's fair enough

[Elena Fisher]

VOTE: LLD
I'll go to this for now
Pedit: See I don't trust anything GuiltyLion says that's the thing.

[Elena Fisher]

Bins felt really honet in these last few posts and I'm getting cold feet so I'll just talk her over with my other teammate zzz
Pedit: Wait it's all 12-3....LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

[Elena Fisher]

GuiltyLion's metaread justification is that even though one meta sample isn't necessarily good, he agrees with almost every thought Bins has produced this game (to the point where he sends me thoughts and then Bins verbalises them a page later) to an extent that he never experienced when he had to play against scum-her.

Edit: Por que no trust the lion?

Let me run this through you:
I scumread you correct
so by that logic I think you have a scum pm
so if we use that logic that means lion is also trying to help you with scum logic and what is best for scum so of course he's going to give input that best helps the scumteam and not town
It's why you can't take anything teammates say for word if I am scum in theory then Chara's read doesn't help because of the same exact logic.

Get the idea?

[Elena Fisher]

@Elena: Except it does help. This is like you saying that none of your reads should matter at all to me because you might be scum. Uh... no... I just know Chara is the best resource we've got when it comes to reading A50, SCUM OR NOT, and this being a pseudo-hydra game it might even help me read your slot.

So to be clear you're actively refusing to get your teammate's input on this right?

No not at all.
I'm saying in a world where you think I am scum. Chara would most likely give me input that helps scum wincon aka they might lie about what they think about A50
the same goes for lion and you.

[Elena Fisher]

I gave you there input. Chara thinks A50 is town just throwing out my idea on the whole "teammates" idea

[Elena Fisher]

Let's focus on LLD and Aero how about that

[Elena Fisher]

I am saying.
In the world of you scum.
and you having a scum role pm.
Your team would help you reach that win con.
so GL could make up how he feels about bins I'm not saying you would make it up for him I would imagine GL the one lying about bins being town or scum if you're asking me to choose an option rn I'd say it's you defending town Bins

[Elena Fisher]

Your point doesn't make sense period.
Your talk on meta role pms are also stupid period.
You say it like these things are outright facts when newsflash they aren't.

[Elena Fisher]

I think dino has a hard time differentiating facts from opinions and that's the big issue on the convo here (no offense)

[Elena Fisher]

You're correct a lot of my play is tearing down other people on things I find incorrect and talking them over and asking questions and seeing how I feel about things that's how I play on this account I want to engage people I'm a reactive player i will look at content ask questions comment on things I think are false or incorrect and come up with answers to it in my own time.

[Elena Fisher]

Of course I do why?

[Elena Fisher]

go on ahead and reexplain.

[Elena Fisher]

If my townreads wanna talk with me or anyone wants too for that matter I'd talk to them of course
I like engaging with people I sr more though.
(notice who I've been talking with)

[Elena Fisher]

VOTE: Mathdino

[Elena Fisher]

Math's the type of player who likes to use data and info clearly on stuff like this but he isn't using it to help town he's using it as an advantage to hide behind reads and reason's he's also acting like his opinions are facts and he tries to give this aura/tone that he will "understand" but honestly that only happens when it's convenient for him

[Elena Fisher]

I'm happy with this lynch and would switch to LLD if needed I still don't really know how I feel about Key but I think Transcend is dumb town (shocker)

[Elena Fisher]

He's also shown he's very self conscious about the way people read him and sometimes that's fine but he seemed to get rubbed the wrong way that felt like annoyed scum then town scum are also much more worried how people think about them then town do.

[Elena Fisher]

I thought I'd seen you get a bit heated up when people accuse you of bad play as town. I might not be remembering correctly, but the quote stood out.

I could be at times but I'd consider myself a rather calm person when I play on this account and take petty stuff out of it it's easy to detached yourself from a game at points and deal with standpoints like this

There's examples of me either straight asking (Bins in 613), or gauging interest in it (Transcend in 723, though he ignored it). Who's your friend reading Bins?

I clearly missed these my mistake and Dunnstral is reading bins for me (and he wants to read you for that matter)


I read the rest of Keychains post and...I don't know I don't really sr her but I don't want to call her town for...well I don't really know I just get a yucky feeling and I'm ehh on just calling her town I am enjoying our little back and forth though.

[Elena Fisher]

He's also shown he's very self conscious about the way people read him and sometimes that's fine but he seemed to get rubbed the wrong way that felt like annoyed scum then town scum are also much more worried how people think about them then town do.

Can you clarify who "he" is, and expand this, because I don't understand what you're trying to say.

he being mathdino I'll try to go find quotes

[Elena Fisher]

Spoiler: quote wall

i scumread both mathdino and a50 but im not sure if they can be s/s

Re: skirt vs LLD: I'm waffling. Gun-to-my-head I say skirt is scum and LLD is town (weirdly). I like the pressure on one or both of them, but given that I'm certainly not best for the job of picking those 2 apart, I'm using my abilities elsewhere. But yeah if I had to end the day right now I think I'd lynch skirt.

Re: UCV project: Creature hates scum. My experience with him in JK9++ was that he doesn't even pretend to be interested to the point that you can run him up and he'll roll over and die. He can't fake town-interest; he's had 1.5 years to learn how to. So I told him on page 1 to

fucking follow this game and give UCV reads

. If Creature wasn't paying attention, speedlynch. UCV delivered in a way that I can believe Creature legitimately followed the game and believed in those reads. Unfortunately UCV spent a good deal of time dodging/misinterpreting my question. Which is classic UCV.

Re: Meta being helpful: Oh I agree, only a couple of my reads are based on choose-your-side-based meta. But that discussion transitioned into people basing reads based on how much OTHER people liked meta early on

Re: skirt: Honestly I don't know. Getting a lot of conflicting reads on skirt from players I trust. My team seems to base a lot of their reads on whether or not people are trying to pocket me (I can't wait to see what they think of A50 these past few pages, lol). I'm not so sure. But I do know he's a good scum player, LLD is towning it way up, and LLD's case on him is pretty convincing.

Re: A50 viability: I'm not gonna answer this right now unless I actually have to defend A50 from the lynch. Tbh I'm still working on this problem with my team.

Edit: lol Dunker can't read me to save his life

there are blatant contradictions in his posts, he's exaggerating things to make them seem in his favor, he's manipulating and his posts are very open ended
(such as in that post "i'm slowly starting to like a CDB wagon" is very open ended, he could justify a townread or a scumread"

wattt
1. You've pointed out "contradictions" in things that have literally just been me changing my mind. You don't seem to understand that my early reads mean fuck-all to me late-D1.

2. What does "in my favor" mean?

3. Who am I manipulating? The hilarious thing is multiple people are accusing others of trying to manipulate ME

4. Uh, no, I'm pretty sure that's a "I'm feeling iffy about this guy and I'm lowkey scumreading him but would like to sort him better".

Dunker what I fail to understand is why you never just ask questions or ask for clarifications when you straight don't understand what someone's doing. Literally anything you want me to expand on, I can do it. I just don't feel like walling it up with every single post I make.

And no shit my posts are open-ended, I have no idea who the hell is scum this game. I don't usually play with people of this caliber.

You really don't get me as a player, do you?

1. You're not even reading. My EARLY reads mean nothing. As in literally my first 2 reads lists in almost every game are bullshitted. I do this to create a record of my trajectory and so I can get into arguments with people and generate discussion. But those reads are often completely different from my LATE DAY ONE reads. My reads RIGHT NOW mean something. Just not the ones on PAGE 2.

2. I don't even know how to respond to that.

3. I generally subscribe to the mastina school of scumhunting, just with massive differences in style. That is, I have no problem with driving an agenda to sort people better. But honestly if you think "people pushing their agenda" is scummy you're gonna have a rough go at this event. God help you if you're reading the other games

4. Floating the idea. CDB is a rough player to read, and my gut says to townread him because of that playstyle that I've seen him use before (it's NAI). Part of it is PoE. But I'm not gonna "wagon" a player by myself.

5. My content quality is fine. If it wasn't, my teammates would've given me shit for it already, since we agreed to keep each other's bad reads/ideas in check. Your understanding of my content, however, is not fine.

Edit: oh shit you're right, I had that thought but completely forgot it

I have literally never played with you before. You opened guns blazing on me as if you had.

What game do you think I was referring to?

@math

the problem here is the sentance "you're misunderstanding my content"

like dude, i can read for myself. i'm reading your content. i don't like your content. i don't see why it's such a big deal.
no one else is scumreading you. why do you have a problem with me scumreading you?

i'm just some noobb right? my reads don't matter cause i'm bad? this is what im getting from that last post, yet you still find the need to pick apart every bit of my post and tell me why it's bad. the funniest part of it all?
you're not even scumreading me

you see where the contradictions come in. you're think my posts are bad, yet im you don't scumread me. you say my read is bad and irrelevant, yet you defend yourself from my points.

Because in the last game I played with you you posted a bunch of votals and numbers things to look townie. You flipped scum.

I have no fucking clue. I've flipped scum once in my entire history. I've survived as scum two other times.

I'm pretty sure I'd remember you given that you joined last September.

He's just very aggro on anyone that talks against him and buddies anyone who agrees with him (I talked about this before) and I dislike his reactions to the little bit of pressure he's got.

[Elena Fisher]

By the way, math is not the lynch

He's getting his hands way too dirty to be scum

and the attention on him gives me over all badvibes

So cut this crap right now.

Stop right there you're better than that (I thought)

[Elena Fisher]

Transcend get your vote off me you're not allowed to lynch me day 1 as policy of you trying to lynch me every game we're in

[Elena Fisher]

He's just very aggro on anyone that talks against him and buddies anyone who agrees with him (I talked about this before) and I dislike his reactions to the little bit of pressure he's got.

I mean. Accurate. Yeah.

Keep in mind tho Dunker is literally my strongest townread. I generally much prefer being able to work with my townreads than not, and it annoys me when they drive into Paranoia City. Because there's always the 1 or 2 players that immediately start scumreading me when I take off like this in games. It's not helpful in getting votes together.

What do you think my agenda is here? To stay alive and power through the game as scum leader? Or something else?

The fact you keep bringing up examples that I'm not even talking about is

interesting

I have an idea on what I think your agenda is but I see no reason why I want to share it

[Elena Fisher]

Well sorry

But all 5 of us do not tr you

And i know it's 75% of the zord hydra that power fucked your slot last time

But still

Make us think you're town

Seriously

I shouldn't have to make you think I'm town when quite frankly I think I've been obv town a lot of the games I've been in and you've been incorrect

every single town

it's annoying but it is expected that you sr'd me (I outright said in my teamchat when you came in you'll vote me) I'm not gonna ate you but you're wrong. again. I'm town simple as that

[Elena Fisher]

I think you're town Elena <3

T-bone best list mod <3

[Elena Fisher]

I think you're town Elena <3

T-bone best list mod <3

Thanks for being in my pocket now

T-Bone is at it again!

Are you sure I'm not the one pocketing you

[Elena Fisher]

No, cause you're town is every game ever

t-thanks ^_^

ok this is weird and not natural for town players right

i do not smoochy smoochy buddy buddy my townreads

there's no way they're both town yeah

YOU'RE ALL JUST JEALOUS OF OUR TR'S ON EACH OTHER

[Elena Fisher]

They're not scum together no

the plan worked back to the scum pt we go!

[Elena Fisher]

Okay, real talk now.

Elena, in a vacuum...who convinces you more that they think I am scum. Math or Skirt/Transcend? I suppose anyone else can answer this question too, and then hopefully we'll see what I'm getting at. Something caught my eye.

,,,,Skirt I think I have an idea where this is going but I'm gonna keep my lips closed

[Elena Fisher]

Ok if you'll excuse me I'm gonna drink some tea and read a book you're all exhausting
(well most of you)

[Elena Fisher]

Dunn tr's both bins and keychain (more so on bins) before I go

[Elena Fisher]

Scum might just be in the low posters because the more we "post" the more things people can sr or find what they dislike. I want to lynch LLD or Aero today and see where it goes.

[Elena Fisher]

Does joining a wagon with your top sr not worry you?

[Elena Fisher]

and so the LLD ate fest begins.

[Elena Fisher]

Do you think this is scumvscum Dino

[Elena Fisher]

Not so confident on who the 3rd scum is atm after talking with Chara and Dunn zzz
Pedit: I'm Maria/Maki

[Elena Fisher]

As someone who is also really really good at ate I can tell when scum is using it as motivation to get further in the game and this is what LLD is doing this Ate is fake and outright forced she's just typing anything that comes to mind and praying it sticks. *shrug*

[Elena Fisher]

I've correctly sr you about 3 times I believe and you fooled me once.
I think you're scum for your game here nothing more nothing less.

[Elena Fisher]

Yes yes lld laugh call us stupid etc etc I've heard it all before any other wonderful things you want to say?
Keychain might be town because scum her doesn't need to switch off my wagon.

[Elena Fisher]

I've correctly sr you about 3 times I believe and you fooled me once.
I think you're scum for your game here nothing more nothing less.

I've literally never played with you.

Maria/Maki yes you have
cut the bs

[Elena Fisher]

Oh I thought I was voting you
VOTE: LLD my bad

[Elena Fisher]

VOTE: LLD
I'll go to this for now
Pedit: See I don't trust anything GuiltyLion says that's the thing.

I thought this was my last vote tbh

[Elena Fisher]

Ugh but it's fucking Maria, is being cheeky really scummy for Maria.

1) you act like you can read me
2) Care to go into more detail

[Elena Fisher]

I've read you correctly in midnight dreams and rwby for !scum you

[Elena Fisher]

Ugh but it's fucking Maria, is being cheeky really scummy for Maria.

My understanding is that Maria's using this account to purposefully switch up her meta. I doubt you'd get much out of metaing MariaR/Maki/Sonia on this.

Correct!

[Elena Fisher]

I don't think we've ever played a game where you've been town and I'm scum?

[Elena Fisher]

WAIT I'M DUMB

[Elena Fisher]

didn't you tr me in gifs game?

[Elena Fisher]

I'm not scum with tbone i'm not scum with lld so who are my partners dino ^_~
Pedit: Fair

[Elena Fisher]

I don't really care if you sr me. I'm asking who my partners are

[Elena Fisher]

every person you sr you say I can't be partners with so how am I scum?
exactly

[Elena Fisher]

Maria, who is scum?

I've had you and dino as my top sr for the past day or so
I was sring bins but my team was like "haha you're dumb!"

I could see aero as scum due to just lack of answers on who scum is. I want to know why radja is town

I think transcend is obv town but he has knee jerk scummy moments that I just call bias (I always sr him)

[Elena Fisher]

UC and Smo are 2 that need sorting

every other name I have hard tr's on

[Elena Fisher]

You're my biggest scumread. I dropped the T-Bone thing a while ago, he's back to null/can't-fucking-decide for me. LLD I'm not even gonna begin to start on.

I guess I could see you being partners with CDB. Beyond that I have no clue. There aren't any viable scumteams right now. I'm having trouble coming up with more than one scumread in the first place (this is of course helped by 1/3 of the playerlist now being V/LA or AWOL from team mafia as a whole).

So no logical answer. That's what I thought. If you had a good reason to sr me (as in it looks geniune I would reconsider but just "idk lol" isn't good enough for me.

[Elena Fisher]

I've spammed the thread enough gn.

[Elena Fisher]

Go over your townreads and try to remember why you tr them and ask "is this a good reason to tr someone and do I think it looked good in ___ context" again if you're that dead stuck works a lot imo.

[Elena Fisher]

Does anything think A50 could be scum or is he just a policy lynch (important)

[Elena Fisher]

Funfact our team is split down the middle half of us sr bins half tr's her

[Elena Fisher]

Glad you're looking at this post. Please notice how different his words from the spoilered areas are from the non-spoiled area at the bottom.

I think he is legitimately frustrated and upset about how he was talked about by Bulba, LLD, and myself. That I don't question. He himself admits that he isn't certain what his reads are, because he is so upset. Of me, he says "T-Bone hasn't done enough for me to read him". Of UCV, "you know exactly what I'm thinking" of LLD "you will unvote me later" . He quotes a bunch of Bulba, LLD, and me, and breaks it down, like someone upset would. Contrast that with the reads list. The tone shifts completely. The frustration is gone, replaced by a cool calmness as he explains his reads...which are completely at odds with the way he treated the rest of the post. Why not carry it over? It is as if he wrote the spoilered parts himself, from the heart...and he crafted the rest with the help of his team. It lacks conviction, and reads fake. Yes, working with teammates is important, but this part of the post is not written with the same emotion the first part was. To me, it was written with a narrative in mind. It was written with the conclusion of "I am going to townread these players, scum read these players, and then come up with the reasons". I feel that when he put together this list, he decided who he was gonna call town and scum BEFORE he decided what those reasons would be.

This is really the thing I have asked people to look at. If you disagree with my take on it, I want to know why.

Me and Chara have talked over this for about...an hour now on reads and I'ma do my best to para all of our thoughts on this

[Elena Fisher]

Almost50:

Me and Chara talked over almost 50 for a little and we're both confident on calling him town we talked over town meta (thought it was best to not go over scum)
and what we got is
1) The fact A50 is trying to run bins up and claim is...stupid but it's something town A50 does to help solve the game
2) the begging to be lynched thing is...quite nai he's done it as scum but he also does it as town for reasons he's already shown (I showed chara quotes and I'm not gonna say

why

he did it but we both have an idea)
3) A50 isn't someone who is really comfortable being tr by the playerlist like this
"the things A50 are getting sr for aren't things you should sr him for because it's a50"~Chara
Chara knows what they'd be sring A50 for and so far he's not doing it (the opposite actually)
Along with a few other things me and Chara are very comfortable calling A50 town

Skirt Skirt:

-snip-

It's very clear skirt/eddie was upset in the top row and it is also very clear his tone changed near the bottom (I'd be shocked if you thought otherwise) Chara and me both think this post is very towny overall one of the main towny parts being skirt asking bulas team for reads the reason we don't think the tone change is scummy is because there was an edit in the middle of the post the post also took a bit of time to right so it's not outlandish for the post to have a tone change it's also not out of the question for Eddie to write a calm reads list
Also if we say skirt is scum and he wrote this why do the tone change in the first place? If he was trying to fake town with that why not just keep that anger going throughout the whole entire post instead of just the upper half if it

is

fake yes the tone change means a lot
but if we go on and say it isn't fake the tone change really isn't that important at all the fact it took a long time to write and he did it with his team makes sense for why he's calm we also know Eddie and Transcend were talking because of the swap


That's our take on the whole skirt skirt thing though
(paraing that was a BITCH)

[Elena Fisher]

good friend Elena

I laughed

just kidding don't hurt me matt

[Elena Fisher]

Okay well Eddie thinks tbone might be town now so fml right?

he's correct.

[Elena Fisher]

Only reason I tr transcend is that he was skirt nothing more nothing less.

[Elena Fisher]

prod dodge I'm not in the mood to mafia today

[Elena Fisher]

CHESSKID3 SWAPS IN FOR SMOCAINE. THIS IS TEAM "WHO IS JOHN GALT?..."'s SWAP.

oh god why

[Elena Fisher]

I would join that if I didn't slightly tr smo

[Elena Fisher]

LLD and fitz wagons are wagons I will cheer for.
Pedit: It's more of a personal thing with me but if Chess behaves I have no issue

[Elena Fisher]

LLD and fitz wagons are wagons I will cheer for.
Pedit: It's more of a personal thing with me but if Chess behaves I have no issue

who are you? Maki?

yep

[Elena Fisher]

Aw cmon don't be salty I was right abt nearly everything in Mulch game

I was correct in that game too I don't care about a games outcome I care about the comments you called me. If that doesn't happen then I have no issue with you

[Elena Fisher]

Just check my only scum game on this account bulb or look at other town games on this account for ref if you want

[Elena Fisher]

Can we get a VC? I'm ready for this day to end
also yes me and T-bone are masons for sure

[Elena Fisher]

I'm ready for this day to end

Why??

We will not be the first game to go into night. We will not be the first to lynch Mafia (if we do), and we won't be the most active nor the most INactive of all 5 games. Might as well go for the "last game to end" trophy.

I don't know I'm just...drained I guess I deleted another semi para cause it was semi ate and I'm not trying to come off as ate.
I feel like Math is scum I feel like LLD is slot is scum etc etc
I want a flip I want to rethink my reads etc

Also this can be that I'm rly tired rn too so

[Elena Fisher]

Gonna play some league and come back to this just looking at mafia makes me brain feel sluggish

[Elena Fisher]

VOTE: Math
FINALLY

[Elena Fisher]

Will be reading up hopefully tomorrow sorry for all the dodges irl stuff are just...gah rn

[Elena Fisher]

Hello.

[Elena Fisher]

Almost50:
Me and Chara talked over almost 50 for a little and we're both confident on calling him town we talked over town meta (thought it was best to not go over scum)
and what we got is
1) The fact A50 is trying to run bins up and claim is...stupid but it's something town A50 does to help solve the game
2) the begging to be lynched thing is...quite nai he's done it as scum but he also does it as town for reasons he's already shown (I showed chara quotes and I'm not gonna say why he did it but we both have an idea)
3) A50 isn't someone who is really comfortable being tr by the playerlist like this
"the things A50 are getting sr for aren't things you should sr him for because it's a50"~Chara
Chara knows what they'd be sring A50 for and so far he's not doing it (the opposite actually)
Along with a few other things me and Chara are very comfortable calling A50 town

Anyone who thinks A50 is scum (as I saw before

[Elena Fisher]

I went to bed (hit submit too soon) refer to that post please

[Elena Fisher]

After having a refreshing break a lot of peoples lynch pools seem to be the same (at least in the same group of people) and that's had me a bit worried because I feel scum would try to change the game state of that was incorrect.
My next order of business is sorting Titus given Eddie towned that slot up but Titus and Transcend haven't done it justice

[Elena Fisher]

I know you're going to have a hard time with this, but try to follow me for a moment. Regardless of whether A50 can do this as town in a regular game means nothing, because this isn't any ordinary game. This is Team Mafia. Try as hard as you can to diminish that fact, it plays a significant role in how people will play this game, and A50 has already acknowledged this when he tried to look like he was contributing by yelling about people going V/LA. He admits that the competition itself is affecting how he's approaching the game. Now look back to that AtE of his from earlier. With that in mind, does town A50 do that, knowing that the competition is on the line and that every action of his is being taken into consideration by a committee of judges to determine whether his team wins or loses? With all that, does town A50 threaten to self lynch and cripple his team's chances of winning? The answer is no. Now scum A50 would do that. He would answer pressure and questioning glances by putting on a show. And that's all it was: a show. One that served scum him more than it ever would town him, especially in these circumstances. No matter how often A50 tries to reposition the argument into one of whether he would throw the game as scum (I never said that) or about self-voting (it's never been about the vote itself, but about the intention behind why he would threaten to self-vote), that's what the push on him is about. There is no way that A50 does what he does as town. Ever.

I understand this line of thinking but I don't really think that's what A50 had in mind regardless of the tourament I more so think it was a way to catch on to people who may jump on his wagon I think you're looking into this too much or giving him a lot more credit than needed. I don't think A50 thought he was putting anyone into jeopardy the point I think you don't get is

A50 was never really going to lynch himself

if he was that'd be a whole dif story so I think your argument is false on that merit I think he just wanted to see what would happen if he did that and even if he

was

scum let's say for the sake of argument he wouldn't try to get himself lynched either. in no world does a50 try to get lynched here

[Elena Fisher]

He wasn't trying to be genuine
he wasn't trying to lynch himself
It was an act. What that act was trying to accomplish is the selling point here and given what me and Chara have talked over it is coming from town A50

[Elena Fisher]

People that I want reading this game and others if they have time:

Creature
Espeonage
Spiffeh (EMPHASIS)
Katyusha
RayBells (should be cross-referencing games, I haven't seen him do that yet)
Firebringer (ESPECIALLY)
Fenchurch
SleepyKrew
Boonskiies
mastina (where is she?)
Chara
Kagami
Katsuki
Shea/Keely/Reck aren't using the full tournament yet, they should be

Chara is reading along trust me and does not want a50 lynched

[Elena Fisher]

Titus slot for me is hard cause it's like

Eddie was a hard tr for me
transcend comes in makes it worse
titus comes in not much better
so ehhhh

[Elena Fisher]

@A50....is "literally not knowing them" the only reason you are voting CDB?

It was my RVS vote, so what reasoning would you have expected?

@A50...have you ever crumbed as scum before? Have you ever crumbed VT before?

I believe I gave multiple examples to my crumbs/claims before. I don't think I crumbed as Scum before, no.

Chara is wondering what you mean says you've faked crumbed before in games like deathnote

[Elena Fisher]

Titus slot for me is hard cause it's like

Eddie was a hard tr for me
transcend comes in makes it worse
titus comes in not much better
so ehhhh

Let's get this out of vague territory. What were you expecting of me? Why is my posting "not much better"?

Your entrance hardcore pinged me for !scum titus waiting for more from you hug friend

[Elena Fisher]

Titus slot for me is hard cause it's like

Eddie was a hard tr for me
transcend comes in makes it worse
titus comes in not much better
so ehhhh

Let's get this out of vague territory. What were you expecting of me? Why is my posting "not much better"?

Your entrance hardcore pinged me for !scum titus waiting for more from you hug friend

My entrance of pissing people off pinged hard for wanting to hug people. Ok... Not much I can say to that, other than it's just completely divorced from what I'm doing. So *shrug* if you're villager.

What are your other reads?

I have fitz as lock scum wanna join me?

[Elena Fisher]

Shame

[Elena Fisher]

Shame

Do you have interest in voting any of my other scumreads/leans?

You scumread almost50 correct? I already showed you why that is town who are your other scumreads?

[Elena Fisher]

VOTE: fitz
hrm

[Elena Fisher]

I told my team this and my feelings haven't really changed. I feel quite drained from this game from what I do see normally I don't mind wall posts like this but I don't feel like much is getting done from these said wall posts etc I'm just waiting for fitz to flip at this point and the game to reset/move on from there thankfully

[Elena Fisher]

I would still like someone with Elena experience to explain that scumread to me.

The only player who has had experience with this account is RC and fitz I believe.

[Elena Fisher]

Math thinks I'm scum because I called one of his main arguments stupid. (and it is)

[Elena Fisher]

Everyone knows she's the most likely to pick scum on her team

This is false and the more you keep trying to act like it's true looks worse on you

And she was the most vocal in shutting down the Choose Your Side Meta discussions.

Because this topic is outright pointless and I won't go into more detail on it unless requested

Buddied up to town-T-Bone in the process of discrediting me.

Yes I buddy as town and scum I love having someone I can bounce stuff off who I tr and is making logical sense (in this case T-bone)

Has consistently attempted to lessen the amount of information at town's disposal.

Give examples? I have no idea what you're talking about this is outright a lie

[Elena Fisher]

People who say "Elena would pick scum on her team" is outright wrong do you see my team? 2 of my teammates strongly pref scum (Gerry and Dunn) and I would've given it to them but we got all town so.
Pedit: Mastina is wrong.

[Elena Fisher]

I will argue and fight this stupid meta argument tooth and nail

[Elena Fisher]

Don't worry Math if I ever die in this game I will make sure you're next just because I can't get you lynched today doesn't mean I can't get you lynched tomorrow. You're just very...loud you don't want to figure me out you're just sheeping you're not game solving you're asking for stuff from other players you're so confident I'm scum when you can't even case me. you're on the wagon that is my main sr and has been all game with me and this doesn't worry you? At all? No if you were town you'd step back go "wait a minute" but you can't do that because you've locked your into this

[Elena Fisher]

Give examples? I have no idea what you're talking about this is outright a lie

Sorry, we've had this discussion already. It's somewhere in my ISO and if Bulba's interested he can find it.

I'm not 1v1ing you with a day left on the deadline. It's just noise. We scumread each other, etc etc, we'll work it out tomorrow if we're both alive.

k you're scum I've openly given you chances to show why I'm scum or give examples but you won't do it.

My team thinks your town so I thought I'd give this a chance but nope they can't say I didn't try now. You're just so infuriating I hate players like you sweet jesus

[Elena Fisher]

It's not a 1v1 it's not noise it's a debate on why we're both scum to each other what if one of us die? We'd want our reads shown and cases so people can leap back to it yes fitz is getting lynched today but what if you die? Wouldn't you want a case to be on me so people can refer back to it. I know how players like you think and this is scum Math for sure and it's just so blatant to me.

[Elena Fisher]

Everyone knows she's the most likely to pick scum on her team

This is false and the more you keep trying to act like it's true looks worse on you

Mastina backs Math up on this one.

Mastina is outright lying because Mastina knows how much gerry loves scum she even says it here:
viewtopic.php?f=84&t=73043

[Elena Fisher]

Saying I hate you isn't ate if your feelings get hurt by someone saying I hate you you need to get off the internet. I've wanted you lynched long before you did me and your slide into omgus scumreading me isn't cute.
You saying your sheeping is basically your answer for why are you scumreading someone it leaves little room for your own argument and ways to poke holes into bad logic.
Yes I am telling people to stop looking at teams and yes I will discredit it because what you are ignoring or don't understand is if someone is a scumslot that means everyone else on that hydra is a scum slot too so that's 60 scum slots along with 300 town slots you can make up meta you can make up arguments getting answers from your team isn't 100% valid at all the more you try to push it the more you're bsing

[Elena Fisher]

2/2 to that yes a bus is a thing but your talking like you know fitz is town and you're setting up my lynch "oh if fitz is town elena is scum" come on why don't you go into more detail on that? you use logic and data on your pushes and your meta thing but here's a wake up call that you need to get through your head.

alignment are wifom and everything was random'd

Everyone coming into this game clearly thought "okay what would be best for my team and what would others think I would take" so saying ___ prefs scum or ___ prefs town is a outright stupid argument and one that should never be taken into account ever saying ___ flipped town in that game so ____ is more then likely scum in that game is also stupid it's so dumb and the only reason people like you would push that is for another reason to scumread someone if you wanna explain why I am wrong on this topic I please suggest you try

[Elena Fisher]

k back off this proves my point, even more, I'm done with your slot and if you flip town I happily will avoid you because your arguments aren't even arguments and I fail to understand how anything you say can come from town and that's my own fault I don't think I'll ever not sr you whether it be bias now or I really am that confident so the one thing I will agree on is ending this conversation

[Elena Fisher]

She said your scum game was strong. I extrapolated from there. I remember what she said stood out and made note. But you're right, she said Gerry was most likely and you were second most likely. What does it matter? She still said you were likely to pick scum if given the chance, because your scum game was strong. And she said outside of that, the rest of the team prefer town.

Yes I'd say my scum game is amazing I

know

I am good as scum but the catch

and it's a big one

is I am good scum on my main accounts not

this

account I don't know how scum me would handle a game like this because I come at it from a much dif angle then I do my main accounts. How can she say I'm likely to pick something when she isn't me? She doesn't know what I would do? Acting like she does is just wrong.

[Elena Fisher]

First thing I even said to my team is
"If we get any scumroles I'm not taking them because I can see myself getting meta lynched"
believe it or don't.

[Elena Fisher]

Gonna drink some tea Math's ego and play just got me steamed a little.

[Elena Fisher]

Why do people think Bins is scum I've been...iffy on Bins half the game I might want to rethink my townreads because since I've already stated most of the lynchpool seems the same and that's normally just...wrong and outright weird it's rare that everyone just agrees and it's correct (I've been in a game like that but it wasn't like this it was much more unified)

[Elena Fisher]

ok I drank my tea I feel much better. I feel like there are a few more statements math made that are just incorrect or maybe he forgot if he likes (and only him) I will point it out otherwise I'll leave it alone.

A50 what's your read on Radja UC and Key please?

[Elena Fisher]

Global VCA though suggests team 14 may have rolled up to 3 scum PMs, so that weakens my read on UCV.

GOD NOT YOU TOO A50

[Elena Fisher]

Bins quick my partner please hammer so this madness can be over

[Elena Fisher]

wtf bins is stealing my 1v1 partner

[Elena Fisher]

I'm jealous...

[Elena Fisher]

Can I do my I told you so dance yet :p

[Elena Fisher]

You think I can be scum with LLD? *pouts*
time to re read
VOTE: Titus
atm

[Elena Fisher]

So Bins, to be clear, you're telling me you received nothing last night?

Loyal

why would you claim this so fast

[Elena Fisher]

So Bins, to be clear, you're telling me you received nothing last night?

Loyal

why would you claim this so fast

any loyal role serves as a creator of guilties

If this really is your role you should've just softed it and pushed bins slowly

[Elena Fisher]

I don't see how I can be scum with LLD but I'm obv bias I mean LLD didn't even know who I was. I could go into a bunch of "this doesn't come from partners" but wifom.

Oh wait I forgot Titus was Skirt
UNVOTE:
hrm

[Elena Fisher]

I am somewhat stuck here

[Elena Fisher]

Vote: Mathdino

I want to vote this too but my whole team thinks Math is town.

[Elena Fisher]

I love when scum kills my top tr

[Elena Fisher]

I doubt he's faking fruit vendor town or scum fruit vendor I have no idea

[Elena Fisher]

LLD/Elena scumteam REQUIRES that LLD claiming to not know who Elena is (MariaR) was faked. I recommend people read that interaction before we go down that route.

Elena scum does make sense in terms of discrediting the Choose Your Side meta argument that turned out to be correct with the following players:
LLD
Mulch
Boonskiies
mastina

But that may not matter to this game specifically.

all players who clearly weren't smart enough to think it over between picking alignments.
Also as I said Gerry and Dunn pref scum and they would've taken it over me but you keep ignoring this fact

[Elena Fisher]

I'd like to think I was an active voice in the lld wagon tyvm

[Elena Fisher]

keychain what made you think I like to be bussed? That's incorrect

[Elena Fisher]

Gonna hopefully gather my team and ask em to help me look at my strong tr's maybe see if I have anything missing.

[Elena Fisher]

Like part of me wants to say the pool we have is correct because the obv scum was lynched. but the fact everyone agrees on said pool is blah.
I know I'm town
Math is prob town even if I say otherwise
Skirt/LLD doesn't feel svs either

so I mostly think this is just incorrect gamestate
Pedit: Both are town

[Elena Fisher]

Look at my LLD type in LLD thanks I'm not scum with LLD. Prob the last time I'll say it because no matter how blatantly clear it is to me it's not gonna help anything

[Elena Fisher]

I took town because I knew people would think if I was given the choice I'd pick scum (I wasn't given that choice and even if we were gerry would've taken it gerry LOVES playing as scum where as I don't mind it)

[Elena Fisher]

I may have missed it, but when did you strongly townread A50?

Actually the top townread reaction is super scummy if a50 was vigged because she's trying to play it as a scum kill.

Math if you're going to preach the "who picks scum" works
Elena is 100% scum now that Gerry is town imo

sweet jesus bins stop

[Elena Fisher]

If this was a normal game I wouldn't mind my lynch but I can't really do that here sadly.

[Elena Fisher]

Tbone is town Titus. I think this game state is mostly incorrect atm and I want to relook over things with my team
(although a few people are most likely gonna call me scum scrambling)
I'm not interested in a titus Tbone Bins or Math lynch today

[Elena Fisher]

Tbone is town Titus. I think this game state is mostly incorrect atm and I want to relook over things with my team
(although a few people are most likely gonna call me scum scrambling)
I'm not interested in a titus Tbone Bins or Math lynch today

Incorrect how?

The lynch pool is mostly in the same amount of people. That doesn't sit well with me

[Elena Fisher]

I don't think anyone else in the lynch pool is scum

[Elena Fisher]

VOTE: key
hrm

boop

[Elena Fisher]

VOTE: key
just incase

[Elena Fisher]

Also the fact that Raybells swapped into Inventions and not here despite explicitly wanting to play a normal (from sign-ups) heavily implies Keychain is actually just town. Willing to consider counter-arguments but I think is sound.

Yo Elena, why doesn't Raybells just swap into this game if he wants to swap into a scumgame?

It's already been stated why

[Elena Fisher]

Let's chat when I get home <3

of course <3