Team Mafia 2018: White Flag — Day Six

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Marquis

[Dunnstral]

Oh also dunn either needs replacement or votes.

Nope, 48 hour prod timer. Also it's a little annoying that you're whining about this.

Gamma jumping all over my vote, the way he agrees with Llama about it being a bus feels scummy and the way he projects onto me about hopping on wagons feels scummy as well (something he did with both Marquis and me I believe)

Postie is leaning entirely too much on "my teammates think this and this" It's like she's detaching herself from the game. Also, this is totally what she would be doing as scum here I bet. I'm scumreading her.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Postie

I think she deserves votes. the way she's stepping back and referencing her teammates just feels scum driven to me

[Dunnstral]

Hey Dunn, how many games have you played with RC and what is your general opinion of RC's townplay?
I will explain the relevance of this shortly.

A lot of games, he's calmed down recently I think, he used to be the person I saw fakeclaiming/hard pushing his read every single game because he was confident on them

I don't understand the relevance

About 125, I felt the vote by Dunn was a bus so I was like "yeah there was bussing, so what". As for LQ's post, I guess that's a reasonable expectation, but there's also the fact that it was a common thread in the post, so I kinda didn't think anything was up with that one in particular.
As for the sauce read, I hadn't really seen much of him yet in that first post. By the time I posted 231 I had gotten to see what he was like more.
Why are you getting a townread from TSQ in the 1v1?

If you didn't think there was something funky with LQ's assessment of Dunn's vote you would not have called him out on it, despite it sharing a similar structure to his assessments on Llmarble's and Postie's votes.

Can you explain how the additional posts of Sauce in-between 105 and 231 drastically changed your view of him as a contender for your vote into someone that someone else might townread?

I see honest scum hunting from TSQ in posts 254 and 265. It's actually good he missed your unvote, as I think I wouldn't have as clear a picture as I do now than if he hadn't.

So what you're saying is the fact I picked it out means I should have noticed what you thought I should? I guess that's fair, but I guess I was just in tunnel vision.
As for Sauce, I feel like it's a general thing about the way he posts. Another person I feel is one of those "annoying but readable" types is Ramcius.
wrt TSQ, Are you saying the missing of the unvote was towny or that it helped you sort him?

Also Dunn I kinda want to know why you're voting Postie, which is kinda a faded wagon, over me, who has been more contentious currently.

Why? Do you think I should be voting you...? Shouldn't you know that's wrong from your point of view?

This is also in response to other people saying I should be voting Gamma, I see why he looks scummy but it isn't enough for me, I expect them to look like this as town, kind of scummy and awkward, I feel like I always use them as a scapegoat when I'm scum myself for this reason (not sure if gamma has realized this). I don't really scumread them.

Dunnstral, you have said Postie "leans back" when referencing her teammates opinions, but I neither see it as a crutch nor do I see any opinion of hers being deferred to her teammate's separate opinions (they seem to share many). Similarly, why if someone like RC is taking a large amount of interest in this game, would it be scummy to utilize and showcase his opinion?

Nobody has pushed her for her opinions, though

If RC was on a team with scum postie I'd expect him to be guiding her

What rubs me the wrong way is that she was constantly referring to her team which I felt was towny at first but realized would be happening if she was scum too

I think Marquis wagon didn't really have a reason to fall apart and I'm not swayed either way by any of their posting, I'd get that going again (I don't really agree with the wagon on tchill either)

VOTE: Marquis

[Dunnstral]

I don't remember wiki's ever being popular

[Dunnstral]

Okay then you should know that RC is pretty fucking great at town, which seems at odds with you criticising me for referencing my teammates, no?

No I don't agree with you

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: wgeurts

yeah i should have took my vote off postie apologies for that.

Uh this vote is pretty bad, I don't know why you're voting a slot that hasn't posted right now?

You seem off this game now, you seem timid compared to other games

[Dunnstral]

Let's talk about why you think those people are more likely to be scum than others based on meta/picking

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Tchill13

Looks too different, timid/inactive, compared to when I've seen him a few times as town

[Dunnstral]

Even though I just moved off Marquis onto tchill?

This is the second time you've accused me of bussing without anything to go on

[Dunnstral]

@GE the way he paraded her and judging by the fact that she wrote guides I expect mastina to be a good scumhunter, which means Eddie will be a good scumhunter if he's scum with her on his side.

I have thoughts on this, I want Eddie to have a chance to respond first

[Dunnstral]

I'm voting tchill because the way he's playing here seems to be different enough from 2 games I have seen him as town in

[Dunnstral]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=74256

Here is my experience with tchill, he was town and I had the general idea that he was town in this game. So let's compare his play in that game to his play in this game.

In that game, he had 490 posts. Wait, huh? This was a mini normal, not anything crazy. He has 31 posts here.
In that game, he spent the majority of his time pushing things, not the right things but he was pretty much always pushing, look at his iso and you should see what I mean. In this game, he seems... almost apologetic?
In that game, he put a player at l-1 on post 31. Here, he plays like this around wagons:

I'm a little alarm llamarbale is already making associations around marquis.

I agree with TSQ marquis is pretty null.

VOTE: wgeurts

yeah i should have took my vote off postie apologies for that.

he is... apologetic? reserved? He's not acting the same as when I saw him as town. I'm wondering where his confidence went.

In post 416 where he questions why a wagon is going on him, tis response seems different from his town self as well

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler: Tchill Activity

Like, that game just happened. How do you explain such a discrepancy with just your post count, Tchill? And then why does your play seem different, as well?

[Dunnstral]

Spoiler: Tchill Activity

Like, that game just happened. How do you explain such a discrepancy with just your post count, Tchill? And then why does your play seem different, as well?

Let's keep this going, I wasn't even in this game but it just ended (he posted in it more recently than this game):

Spoiler:

Oh look, he's the top post count again. Literally hundreds of posts as town, a gain. And he was actively posting in this game but disappears for this one

When you incessantly spam games with hundreds and hundreds of posts and basically make games less pleasent you BETTER BELIEVE I'm going to call you out for it the second you roll scum and start lurking

[Dunnstral]

Outside of my first scum game, the only one I've really enjoyed, I have never not been lynched as scum on this site.

To be fair that's like, 90% because everyone's been very, very wary of you since you absolutely smashed your first scum game. This is bad self-meta.

Just because people were wary in the game you were in - the one

immediately

following my first scum game - doesn't mean you know the reason why I was lynched in

all

of my other scum games, because that absolutely wasn't why I was lynched in all of my other scum games.

How is this relevant to this game?
How does it tie in

[Dunnstral]

MOD NOTES

Prodding TChill13. He has 24 hours to make a content post or be force replaced.

Also no hammers before we know if he's being replaced or not

Why ?

[Dunnstral]

Why ?

Because I can't read Tchill but if he's replaced there's a chance I can read the replacement.

Do you expect his replacement to be able to answer for Tchill's meta in regards to posting?

2nd, this is team mafia. If him lurking out benefits his team then he has a motive to do it.

[Dunnstral]

Or can you prove that if Tchill replaces out, it's NAI?

[Dunnstral]

Do you expect his replacement to be able to answer for Tchill's meta in regards to posting?

No but I don't see his play here as so damning that no replacment would be able to do something town enough to convince me the slot isn't scum.

Really? Then how do you rationalize tchill having a combined

800

posts in 2 recent town games, one so recent that he was posting dozen's of posts per day while simultaneously ignoring this game.

Nothing a tchill replacement says can change this "evidence" on him. Do you think this stuff doesn't matter? You seem to be ignoring it.

Or can you prove that if Tchill replaces out, it's NAI?

Why would I need to?

Because you are proposing that we wait for tchill to be replaced and try to read his replacement. I'm saying that there is a clear scum motivation for tchill to replace out. You are effectively campaigning that we give tchill's team a chance to wriggle out of being lynched. But why should we do this? What new information can a replacement bring us, when there's meta on tchill himself pointing to him being scum?

I don't think we should be considering your proposal of "let's wait for tchill to be replaced" if you can't prove that this isn't scum-oriented in nature.

[Dunnstral]

Anyone interested in a last-minute actually good wagon on GE for that gross case in #702?

Unvote, vote: Gamma Emerald

Hey, Cogito Ergo Scum, what's wrong with the heuristic's of this one? Or are you just derauling a tchill lynch by any means necessary at this point?

Spoiler: Tchill Activity

Like, that game just happened. How do you explain such a discrepancy with just your post count, Tchill? And then why does your play seem different, as well?

Spoiler: Tchill Activity

Like, that game just happened. How do you explain such a discrepancy with just your post count, Tchill? And then why does your play seem different, as well?

Let's keep this going, I wasn't even in this game but it just ended (he posted in it more recently than this game):

Spoiler:

Oh look, he's the top post count again. Literally hundreds of posts as town, a gain. And he was actively posting in this game but disappears for this one

When you incessantly spam games with hundreds and hundreds of posts and basically make games less pleasent you BETTER BELIEVE I'm going to call you out for it the second you roll scum and start lurking

[Dunnstral]

@Dunn

- Link me some games that show Tchill has a meta of lurking as scum?

Hm, I actually can't find any

There's still the matter of his actual posting looking different to where he is town, though

I'm kind of eyeing Cogito Ergo Sum and wondering if they're white knighting/defending scum and wondering if it's better to just go for them instead

[Dunnstral]

I went and found an Eddie town game.

Holy shit he needs rope right the fuck now

I um.
Well fine then.
VOTE: EddieFenix

What are you guys seeing, can you point it out

[Dunnstral]

@Dunn

- Link me some games that show Tchill has a meta of lurking as scum?

Hm, I actually can't find any

There's still the matter of his actual posting looking different to where he is town, though

I'm kind of eyeing Cogito Ergo Sum and wondering if they're white knighting/defending scum and wondering if it's better to just go for them instead

Doing Pre-Flip is almost always not helpful.

I accounted for both alignment possibilities, the read doesn't rely on tchill's alignment. What doesn't seem to be helpful here is your use of buzzwords?

[Dunnstral]

isn't postie doing the same thing?

Llamarble already linked a scum game.

What are you guys seeing, can you point it out

I compared this to that, I feel like he's a bit more muted than that game but his play seems to be coming off similar in tone

You'll notice that in the town game he's quick to start asking questions, giving reads, and actively trying to sort the people he's unsure on. There's actual, obvious game-solving happening, unlike here and in the scum game Llamarble linked where his ISO is full of fluff and the odd token question that he doesn't pursue or use to reach a conclusion. Idk how to explain this further without doing a post by post analysis. Which I might do.

no I was responding to dunn saying ces is scum because hes trying to get a lynch other than tchill. I'm just pointing out that you're doing the exact same thing.

Okay but I'm engaging with Postie too

[Dunnstral]

I don't know what you mean when you say my tone is markedly different between postie and ces

[Dunnstral]

PLEASE PbPA. I love walls, just ask Gamma in my response to their GIANT. SPOILER.

I hate you. Your wall destroyed the previous page, I don't think your wall is healthy and you should stop making it so long.

Not Voting (3): Davsto, EddieFenix, LicketyQuickety

I want you guys to keep your votes in play.

Also Ranmaru a quick update to help you stay with the times: wgeurts got replaced by Davsto

Thank you, I'm going to re-read what he said. Care to vote LQ with me? Thoughts on CES and AD?

I could vote LQ, if Tchill gets replaced I will

Replacing out isn't nai. There's scum motivation in team mafia because it's potentially helping your team.

[Dunnstral]

That makes no fucking sense at all. If you drop out of the competition, you are out of the competition. There is no motivation to drop out unless you don't want to be a apart of the competition. You get zero awards if your team wins and you drop out.

But I will say there is SOME motivation for Scum to sub out and that is mostly due to stress and not being able to handle the competition as a whole. That said, if you are a known player to dislike playing as Scum, then this puts added stress on someone playing a Scum role who doesn't want to. And with the stakes being raise because of Team mafia, the stress is amplified.

It's team mafia, you're still helping your friends win, that is a motivation

[Dunnstral]

replacing leads to potential loss of points, which is a negative

ok, I actually didn't know this.

[Dunnstral]

It's time to slow down

[Dunnstral]

Srceenplay, why did tchill lurk out this game while simultaneously hyper posting in a town game he was alive in?

[Dunnstral]

IDK when it changed. It changed when i had the idea that it didn't look like Postie was actually playing, but that RC was playing through Postie. Let me go look for the first quote.

I think I said something like this too without specifying rc

[Dunnstral]

So, Eddie Meta. First to note is that I'll be referencing this post a lot as it's a good sum up of Postie's claimed town- and scum-meta re:Eddie.

First thing to note is that, while the chosen games are from last year (which initially concerned me with regards to cherry picking) they are indeed the two most recent (substantial) games Eddie has played in. This is also a general comment that I'm fairly happy with their assessment of their two games. I don't think the difference is as blindingly obvious as painted, however. Also, I will note that his TBD play (scum) becomes a fair bit more like his Night and Day (town) play as the game continues, which muddies the whole thing a little for me.

Now, the other games:
Paint Mafia Mania (SCUM) - while more recent than the other two, this game is the reason why the qualifier "substantial" is in the paragraph above - an entire 9 posts, due to a personal situation ("unforeseen life stuff"), a fast moving game, and eventual replace out. So, while largely it could be NAI (as pretty much all could be equally explained with the lack of full engagement with the game due to being behind), I do notice even in this tiny sample that a fair few of Postie's meta-indicators are present.
Hunger Games II (SCUM) - this is a hydra game with Bulbazak (to find Eddie's posts, use Ctrl+f and search "-Fenix", as he signs all but his first post with this). Another of Postie's points is here - a very small number of reads. Pretty much the first half of Eddie's posts refer to a single player (Creeps). And yep, a lot of questions which aren't followed up on, and.. yeh you get the idea. I was honestly expecting to have a fair bit to argue against Postie with but... this is pretty much as they say. I'm almost disappointed.
Team Mafia 2015: Mod Error Mafia (TOWN) - four posts, nothing to see here.
Team Mafia 2015: 8:4 Vanilla Nightless (TOWN) - this one's a teeny bit more ambiguous, as there are a few early posts where questions aren't followed up on and a smaller number of players are engaged with. But who am I kidding - this is quickly resolved, questions are followed, he gets mulitple more reads quickly, his posting is indepth and lacks fluff.

Dammit Postie, when you're right, you're right.

VOTE: EddieFenix

Will take a look at this later, will likely vote eddie if I agree

[Dunnstral]

If it seems like I'm a little annoyed that's because I somewhat am because if that meta had been obviously wrong then I'd have the Postie slot down as scum easy peasy bam and that would be one of my biggest troubles in this game shut down

But even with that and even if Fenix flips red, Postie could still be scum because she's being guided by RC and we all know he's rather bus-hungry

Don't get me wrong, that good meta has definitely put Postie on a townread for now and I'll probably not be actively scumhunting the slot for a couple of days (especially if Fenix flips red) but still I've got to play the game with such uneasiness

I think if eddie flips scum postie is probably town though

Remember the setup we're in, we don't even have to lynch postie to win if she's scum

[Dunnstral]

What's wrong with the dichotomy?

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral
What's your read on me

Town

I also want to poke at Dunn by the way.

He has three posts today and none of them are good.

Ok then: I'm ok with lynching Eddie and will vote him if we're ready

I don't scumread LQ, but I haven't been looking into this posts in-depth

Marquis pushing that there was a dichotomy but never actually going into why a dichotomy is

bad

(and I did ask) is at the very least strange

[Dunnstral]

I feel like Postie is town if Eddie is scum

You look like town to me

[Dunnstral]

Truthfully I never actually looked into it, I just assumed he was being voted for meta and figured I'd go along with it (also I thought I saw some favorable reactions to it)

I thought postie was relying on her team too much to the point of shirking responsibility off herself, that looked weird to me, I do think it is unlikely she busses though

I don't have an opinion on davsto slot, or on actiondan, I'll look at both of them but truthfully there's portions of the game I haven't read so I suspect I'll be missing on context unless I take the time to catch up on everything

CES doesn't look like scum to me from what I've seen, this is a change in a read I had on him earlier

[Dunnstral]

Considering I've been kind of skimming the game it's to be expected though, no?

Like you said, these are players on the periphery, I can give you deeper opinions when I get deeper into the game

[Dunnstral]

I know, I've been skimming since tchill flipped town

I don't know what else you want me to say; I'll contribute to the game

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral

: A50 also wants you and your team to read my #1631 and comment on it as well.

What part do you want thoughts on?

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral
What's your read on me

Town

What do you think of the reason I scumread you day 1?

Dunnstral answer this

Why did you scumread me day 1?

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: EddieFenix

Seems good for today

[Dunnstral]

What is the hesitation here?

[Dunnstral]

Actually

VOTE: Marquis

[Dunnstral]

I think Dunn is the most scummy player in the game after eddie.

Let's hear it

[Dunnstral]

Why the vote change? I mean, I kind of like it but I don't see quite what prompted it.

Just feeling it I guess, it feels liek marquis ignores stuff in thread sometimes in favor of AtE

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral/Marquis and I would state Gamma for lack and anyone else, but I don't feel comfortable giving a scum read there.

If I had to recheck my town reads I'd probably start with Postie/Lycan/Davsto. But first I'm looking into Marquis' latest posts and also looking over gamma. (I guess I should also humor mastin by looking over that case, I never did)

Let's hear it: Why am I this lock scum for you. It doesn't make sense.

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral
What's your read on me

Town

What do you think of the reason I scumread you day 1?

Dunnstral answer this

Why did you scumread me day 1?

Well I thought you had joined the Marquis wagon. I was wrong though because you started it.

Dunn I still need you to respond to this

I mean, it was a mistake and it got cleared up so it's fine, I don't think it's scum play to just lie about something like that, plus I wouldn't expect you to play like that as scum, overall I feel like it doesn't matter much

[Dunnstral]

I'm not though

I didn't notice the question, on top of that I don't think you would do that as scum like I explained?

Why would I be more critical?

[Dunnstral]

You kept "not noticing", after a while it can't be explained away as that, plus I feel like you would be a bit more critical of it since it was a reasoning on you

It didn't look like much to me

[Dunnstral]

don't believe that his rationale for voting marquis comes from a genuine place of conviction.

What does this mean?

Because what I described actually happened

[Dunnstral]

not entirely sure, but i don't think he actually believed in the eddie wagon in the first place. could be to avoid pressure for a poor vote on the wagon, could be to muddy up associatives. either way i think it's scummy play. the eddie wagon certainly seemed as if it was happening anyways. is there something specific about the people that changes something about this read, to you?

I'm still willing to vote/hammer that wagon, btw

[Dunnstral]

don't believe that his rationale for voting marquis comes from a genuine place of conviction.

What does this mean?

Because what I described actually happened

marquis hadn't made a real post in about 6 real life days and in about 300 posts when you changed your vote. i find it hard to believe that it just struck you how marquis' posting earlier in the game was appealing to emotion and such, causing you to switch your vote there because it's somewhere you actually wanted to go back to. i just can't see any reason for that voting pattern outside of not really caring where you're voting at all, and i think that that mindset makes you scum.

It doesn't

I feel like you don't really care what I say, though

[Dunnstral]

I'm not very invested in the game right now, that doesn't make me scum, and I intend to complete this game, and it jsut struck me that maybe marquis was a better vote than eddie when I really considered it

What do you think of that, by the way? About the eddie/marquis wagons? Lynching me won't make those go away so

[Dunnstral]

I think we should delierate this more before rushing into a marquis lynch

Why did postie die? She wasn't pushing marquis, right? It makes me feel like this is a part of scum plans

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Marquis

More coming later but I got some agreement here

[Dunnstral]

Also somebody said this methodical lurking and excuses comes from scum, I agree with that in regards to tchill (and not myself)

[Dunnstral]

and by tchill I mean marquis

[Dunnstral]

I'm not

[Dunnstral]

I don't think you have a case on me

I'll get you your reads list if you want it

[Dunnstral]

Why do you say that LicketyQuickety ^?

I'll get that read list going shortly when I'm up to it

[Dunnstral]

I can actually give you guys an idea now, I think LQ, Gamma, are town
Ranmaru next tier
Cogito ergo Sum and TSQ, davsto, lycanfire are all null
northsidegal, actiondan lean scum
Marquis is scum

[Dunnstral]

UNVOTE: Marquis

I'll take another look - you need to talk to me about why you're voting me right now because it looks like you're just trying to get a wagon going and it irks me, I don't make much sense in that team imo

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral, tell me what you think of Shea's vote on Marquis, and Quick's vote on Marquis. Tell me what you think of this: #2607

I don't know what to think of CES, and yes I will look at this game some more and explain some reads

If CES were scum I'd be looking back at those as moderately suspicious I'm sure if that's what you're getting at, I need to look at him separately though

[Dunnstral]

Marquis ignored me again

Hopefully they find time to talk about why they're voting me before deadline.

[Dunnstral]

Lycanfire, Davsto, NSG, Dunnstral. Tell me what you think of what I have said regarding [Gamma, Quick, Shea], and tell me if you would be willing to compromise to one of them today. I'm going to sleep for now. Ciao.

I haven't seen all of what you've said, I'll add that I was sort of townreading both Gamma and Quick and don't think I'd be comfortable with them being the lynch for today

In general, I am pretty open to compromising elsewhere if needed

Quick: Same question. Who is scum on CEStown flip, and CESscum flip. In fact, everyone answer this. Ces scum = Ces, Shea, Quick.

I'm thinking Action dan

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Thestatusquo

[Dunnstral]

I really wish this day had been more a choice between Dunnstral / Marquis. Going through their recent iso's is depressing.

VOTE: Marquis

Dan has the hammer. He's the deciding vote.

[Dunnstral]

If you look deeper into the votes you'll see I had numerous opportunities to hammer people who weren't CES - I'm not scum

The information on a scum CES flip was: Don't lynch Marquis before Dunnstral

I had the opportunity to hammer Marquis.

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: Dunn

Pretty sure this wins us the game.

@Lycan,

How do you explain me not voting for shea when I had the opportunity to and instead stayed on ECS if I am Scum?

What do you think about actiondan if it's not me?

[Dunnstral]

Again, I had many opportunities to hammer what CES was pushing though, you're not looking at the full picture

[Dunnstral]

Again, I had many opportunities to hammer what CES was pushing though, you're not looking at the full picture

Point them out, I want to look at all of them.

Alright, what I was thinking of for last day phase was the point where I unvote marquis even after he ignores me and lazily votes for me, also denying actiondan the opportunity to ever hammer marquis (who could be town)

VOTE: actiondan

This looks most likely to me

[Dunnstral]

would vote tsq too, that's my other pick

[Dunnstral]

I don't think ranmaru is scum

[Dunnstral]

I saw his posting sequence that happens before my unvote and had second thoughts

[Dunnstral]

I didn't, I'm responding to you asking why I unvoted in the first place

[Dunnstral]

Which leaves you and Dunnstral

Jog my memory, why isn't actiondan scum from your point of view?

[Dunnstral]

Shadoweh truly taking on the role of their predecessor

[Dunnstral]

He gives his stamp of approval for lynchind Dunn as of (let me check)...

Last Monday at 2:00 PM

Interesting, any other things from Creature?

Not really.

Can you paraphrase what he said about me?

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral, I didn't answer you because you asked me a dumb question that could have been answered reading slightly before what you quoted. (I don't think it's impossible for Dan to be scum)

What you said was "if he's scum it won't matter" then you started sussing out 2 other people to lynch, huh?

[Dunnstral]

As a consequence, Lycanfire, who through no issue of his own, will be converted into a tree stump for the night and next day phase and will be modkilled at the end of the next day phase. He was

Spoiler:

Vanilla Townie

[Dunnstral]

Maybe I'm biased but itfeels like it's less likely to be actiondan with his recent posting

UNVOTE:

I'm not convinced that LQ posting is coming from scum right now though

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

[Dunnstral]

Thanks Shea. Quick and Dunn it's your turn: describe why you townread who you townread.

You feel like town this game - I don't think I'm overlooking you either. Also your vote on CES looks good

Ranmaru was the Sauce slot and was on CES earlier on - They make a lot more sense as town than scum too

[Dunnstral]

Dunn voting LQ is hilarious and scummy

Who should I be voting?

[Dunnstral]

I am curious why Dunn is voting for Quick.

I think he has a decent chance of being scum, and if he's just going to blindly push into me then sure I'll vote him + that's what lycan is pushing

[Dunnstral]

Dunnstral: can you stop fucking your town meta to help your scumgame and do something productive this game you're pissing my team off thanks

Yeah I'm not doing anything like this

[Dunnstral]

I'm stating in the open that I'm not confident in my reads right now. I think it's possible you (Shea, Davsto) are a team, but i'm also considering (Quick, Marquis) as a team as well.

I'm finding it difficult to imagine Shadoweh as scum here - CES was voting on the slot when it was at l-2/l-1, I think it makes more sense as a mislynch scum was pushing for

Davsto play-wise feels like scum but I'm hesitant to vote him because of his vote on CES - at least I think that was what I was getting at when I looked at this earlier

TSQ's vote could have been a bus easily, but he's also contributing a lot ot the game. Still, I get the feeling he is pushing for a scum win with his reads right now.

[Dunnstral]

Dunn voting LQ is hilarious and scummy

Who should I be voting?

[Dunnstral]

No, I'm not asking who you think I should be voting. I'm asking who I should be voting - I don't scumraed ranmaru and won't be voting there, there's a number of reasons for this. Where should I be voting, then? Why is my lq vote hilarious and scummy? Because it's not what you want?

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: TSQ

Who would do this?

[Dunnstral]

I realize we have 12 hours left

[Dunnstral]

Yeah I'm starting to believe it isn't LQ again

[Dunnstral]

I don't think anybody was ever accusing us of being a team though?

[Dunnstral]

VOTE: TSQ

Who would do this?

anyone but you or ranmaru huh?

It's clear that this isn't what's going on though? If I just wanted a lynch I'd stick on someone else

[Dunnstral]

I don't think anybody was ever accusing us of being a team though?

Pre-emptive?

For what?

If you think LQ is scum, vote him instead of trying to start something on me. You backed off of him too.

[Dunnstral]

Explain what?

[Dunnstral]

Yeah I'm starting to believe it isn't LQ again

Based on what?

Some of your reactions today

[Dunnstral]

anyway. TSQ is not in the cards Dunn and will probably end up dead with Davsto either tonight / tomorrow night after a no lynch should we fail to win today. Vote Shadoweh?

I don't think it's shadoweh either

[Dunnstral]

no?

no what?

[Dunnstral]

But if we lose like that than so be it honestly. I will at least enjoy the schadenfreude from Lycan perhaps learning some sort of lessen. Unsure what form that will take.

pedit:

I had a town-read on Shea from forever ago back from the time when he voted gamma and gamma voted him, and since then I'd say he's in general been a bastion of sanity this game in a sea of people that were... less so. I suppose that's not the best of reasons for a town read, but there's really been nothing I can think of that's ever made me doubt it; even now I'm trying to recall anything in the flow of the game that I ought to pause for and I'm coming up empty. If I were to recheck anything it'd be his eddie vote and perhaps how he approached scumreads ~D3 and how hard he pushed them. I remember both of those things not giving me worries but if there's anything close to scum intent it would be around there. I'd also check interactions between him and Marquis, to be frank.

Bastion of sanity is a pretty solid tactic vs wildly accusing people

It's the sane ones you need to watch out for

[Dunnstral]

What about davsto?

[Dunnstral]

I'm taking a moment to think too

I think Actiondan is more likely to hammer than not there if he's scum and tsq is town -also if town we have a very hard day tomorrow

Ranmaru is really towny

I think it's 2 of LQ/TSQ/Davsto, sorry

[Dunnstral]

Creature thinks it's TSQ and Shadoweh.

ok, what changed his read on me?

[Dunnstral]

Gamma is the other one that seems like solid/lock town for me

[Dunnstral]

Who would vote davsto?

[Dunnstral]

My problem here is if I flip you guys will still be pushing ranmaru the next day

[Dunnstral]

What the fuck was that TSQ vote bullshit? Ranmaru was clearly bluffing and panicking. The fact that the momentum was put onto it by Dunn and Ran is even more of a red flag.

I still want a Ran lynch but I think it seems impossible at this point.

VOTE: Dunnstral

Justify voting me - why am I scum?

[Dunnstral]

Lq, you are lying about creature. He doesn't have thos reads, he wouldn't have that read on me, and there's no accountability for him switching his reads on the spot to suit your vote like that

[Dunnstral]

Lq, you are lying about creature. He doesn't have thos reads, he wouldn't have that read on me, and there's no accountability for him switching his reads on the spot to suit your vote like that

LOL, great case, top kek.

So it seems your case on me is based on things that cannot be proven. Why am I not surprised?

Why did creature's read on me change?

Why was he scumreading me?

What the fuck was that TSQ vote bullshit? Ranmaru was clearly bluffing and panicking. The fact that the momentum was put onto it by Dunn and Ran is even more of a red flag.

I still want a Ran lynch but I think it seems impossible at this point.

VOTE: Dunnstral

Justify voting me - why am I scum?

name one pro town thing you have done this game.

I stopped responding to you at one point

[Dunnstral]

I have nothing in mind, I just am genuinely confused why people don't see Davsto/CES when I do.

if you think I'm scum why are you "genuinely curious" about why I agree with you about what would be, from your POV, my scum buddy.

why are you prepping for the next day phase instead of seeing my lynch through?

How does arguing with ranmaru help here

[Dunnstral]

I think TSQ is our best bet for scum

[Dunnstral]

There is a non-zero chance at any moment that I pass out and can't vote change fyi

Are you at all considering TSQ right now?

[Dunnstral]

I think TSQ is our best bet for scum

Convince me.

You guys can lynch me tomorrow if it's not TSQ, and I have no doubt I'll get jumped on

If we don't lynch TSQ today, he's not getting lynched tomorrow.

You guys need to pick between one of me/ranmaru to stake your bets on, not both.

[Dunnstral]

Lynching me -> lynching ran is not our best odds of winning, and you're playing into scums hands if you do that

[Dunnstral]

I just don't really know who could possibly be scum if you're town.

...shadoweh?

[Dunnstral]

Gamma's town has been super town, too

[Dunnstral]

How about how your TSQ vote seems to be based more on the chance that someone would join you on him and lynch him over any actual scumread?

There was no support for tsq when I started that.

[Dunnstral]

Dunn, you have some fucking nerve asking me to justify my vote on you when you've barely justified an action the whole damn game.

We're not playing the whole game right now, we're playing the day four lynch. Or at least I am.

How about how you and Ranmaru

You're not voting Ranmaru.

How about the way you're acting in attempting to vote based on who would be lynched rather than who you've actually stated as your scumreads absolutely mirrors the way that Ran was acting towards the end of yesterday?

Me mirroring Ranmaru - wait he's a living, unflipped player - what are you on about?

[Dunnstral]

but multiple people had stated some interest

They really hadn't, I didn't actually think I could push that through, it was more of a stick to my guns sort of thing before going down

[Dunnstral]

Davsto I'm not going to entertain you whining about my gameplay over the course of the game - I've contributed more than you have during day four, full stop. It is day four right now, I am trying to piece this together, you sit in the back row and say it's me and ranmaru without interacting with our clear or anybody else really

[Dunnstral]

TSQ if I flip town what are the biggest possibilities for the game? Who's mafia and who gets lynched?

[Dunnstral]

Good luck

[Dunnstral]

TSQ felt kind of town at the end too, I'd push on Shadow/LQ first tomorrow

[Dunnstral]

I will not be voting Shadoweh

tomorrow

.

:thinkingemoji:

[Dunnstral]

Alright, so that's your lylo vote?

I don't think it's you/actiondan/gamma in that order

davsto is 4th I guess, if he has convincing associations with ces, I haven't looked, then it's tsq and the other two