Him has vengeful now FYIIn post 5061, panthaleon wrote:VOTE: Nomnom
Parking this here to start with. Hey nom play for serious please. Of you are town, tell me who scum is
TM2020 - Large Theme - Gay Mafia IV: TOWN WIN
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Why do you think he was the most likely JOAT target?In post 5082, Ankamius wrote:DEB I think chenn was killed for being widely townread and for being the JoaT neighborhood's most likely choice of target-
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Who have you used it on so far?In post 5080, Gammagooey wrote:
I already said that I don't really want our power to have a major effect in the game so get shrugged at? Like the only scenario I could see it being useful imo is if someone was very lynchbaity but I also thought they were very likely town (Espeonage in Signs & Void in Team Mafia 2015 would be a good example of someone I thought of like that) but there isn't anyone in the game that really fits that imo b/c most of my town reads are either not particularly strong or are pretty consensus in the game (like chennis was)In post 4152, Gammagooey wrote:
yeah DEB & my group power is making someone lovedFlavor Leaf wrote:I think that’s weird because i was pushing Gamma all day yesterday, and I can’t see DEB ever making me loved.
I actually voted for someone else (Vex, mostly because I think it's a dumb power and I'd generally prefer for it not to affect the game at all and I didn't think it would be on him) to be loved and assumed that DEB wouldn't submit anything because he's not in the QT very often but it got randomized to you (and DEB mentioned he thought you were town for once in the QT as his one night post but didn't explicitly say he was making you loved
I recall FL saying somewhere that he's loved, but I don't know the other.
You could always leash it + have town decide your loved target beforehand.Like even using it on Deas yesterday if we could magically change it right after he made his last content post wouldn't have strictly been 'good' even if a lot of people town read him for it, there's a chance the nom wagon picks back up with one day left til deadline but it probably just makes it harder to lynch Deas over lynching no-one at all.
We have enough NK targets between me, dave, and FL that a pre-decided loved target won't instantly get picked off.
It makes sense to lynch nom now. If nom is scum, we need to deal with the vengeful before it's an endgame threat. If she's town, she can at least aim for scum. There's a benefit in keeping town!nom alive until lategame because scum won't lynch her, but I don't think the benefit of that scenario outweighs the negatives of a scum!nom scenario.VOTE: nomnomnom
To pretty much everyone If you don't think nom is very likely scum atm I'd like to hear why.-
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With their inventor ability.In post 5084, Ankamius wrote:dave said they targeted him n1 and n2
I'd have thought he'd switch it up with the JOAT.-
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As long as FL and I are alive, they have to spend a kill to stop the doctor ability.In post 5090, Firebringer wrote:I think we should just lynch Flavor tbh.
Feels like thing pointing to him Flavor
I'd rather not make their job easier.-
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DaveIn post 5095, Gammagooey wrote:
who did you two decide to protect last night btw?In post 5093, EspressoPatronum wrote:
As long as FL and I are alive, they have to spend a kill to stop the doctor ability.In post 5090, Firebringer wrote:I think we should just lynch Flavor tbh.
Feels like thing pointing to him Flavor
I'd rather not make their job easier.-
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Because we'll die when we use the lightning rod + reroute the scum kill onto us.In post 5097, davesaz wrote:
How does it confirm?In post 5072, Flavor Leaf wrote:Crappy thing is, lynching EP or Myself confirms the other as town.
I think the commuters were the only way for us to stay alive.-
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Who did you target and why?In post 5098, davesaz wrote:
My action was not blocked. Nothing learned unfortunately.In post 5078, EspressoPatronum wrote:@dave - did you get any information with your JOAT tonight? You'll have at least two more nights of safety to track/watch.-
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In post 5104, MariaR wrote:I don't really understand the fb thing, don't really care.
FB getting removed from the commuter hood means nom gets the LMS without FB needing to die. If FB is town, he's now hoodless. I think that means he's vanilla now.
Two questions:Can we kill in EP/FL/DEB now? They'll be forced to use their 1 shot (at least EP/FL) nad if they don't it's a scum claim That's also a way to get a free lynch back right?
1. Why do you think voting in me and FL is a good idea?
2. Why do you think mine and FL's LMS gives us a free lynch back?-
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Fair point, but you should consider full claiming within 2 or 3 nights.In post 5108, davesaz wrote:
Answering would likely reveal which action is still available, which is suboptimal for town.In post 5100, EspressoPatronum wrote:Who did you target and why?
If I used track then someone I thought was scum. If watch, town. If I didn't trust docs then commute is a possibility.
If you die before FL or I die, then either:
- FL is scum and didn't protect you with me, causing our protect to randomize
- the roleblockers are majority scum + targeted FL and I
- some other shenanigans happened
In most of the above cases, someone needs to effectively scumclaim for you to die.-
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I see a few walls I'd like to read more closely and posts I'd like to respond to, but I likely won't have time until Thursday. Sorry, all.In post 5150, Gammagooey wrote:what's odd about it and why is it more likely to come from scum than town in your opinion?
@ me if you have anything short you'd like to ask me.-
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I'll get the ball rolling.In post 5450, nomnomnom wrote:I almost want to vote Ank here, there's something that pings me about how she's handling this conversation.
I think this is scummy of her.
VOTE: Ank-
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You're talking as if I've been present for most of the in-game day. I was VLA for several days and was clear that my week has been busy.In post 5463, Ankamius wrote:[...]Even today, almost all of EP's posts are simply explaining exactly the same things you have, except in a much more bland way, and a single lukewarm stance on wanting to lynch nom.
That's it.
Pretending that I've been in here giving a bunch of bland posts is disingenuous.-
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@MariaR - to answer your question earlier -- I townread dave more than I believed in the DV/Dave scum dichotomy. As such, I've removed my scum inventor + scum RBer theory from my read on you. I disliked your posts yesterday, but your posts today look better.
Regarding the reads on my slot (Ank, MariaR, EC), I would encourage anyone to review some of my past games. My playstyle often leaves people with scummy vibes, as you will see in several of my games. My first Newbie game, Pokemon Ruby, and Make Me Regret This Upick are all examples of people scumreading me for reasons similar to your scumreads of me this game. As FL can attest, I warned him about this in our hood several days ago... my playstyle often looks scummy.
FYI - I have no scum games with which to compare because I've never rolled scum on site.
@Ank -- you're still scum.-
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Gobble thinks Ank is using nom as a way to gain a better position in the late game.In post 5499, MariaR wrote:I don't wanna think about Ank being scum because if I have to get into a 1v1 with Ank I'll lose. Her recent posting is really bad, but it begs the question why did she basically save the nom wagon. And while yes EC can make those notes as scum really, he doesn't need to.
As long as I'm still alive, you won't have to 1v1 Ank.-
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Yes, I would count excessive hostility and rudeness as toxicity. I'm not really concerned what the games were like back in your day as long as its unacceptable today.In post 5507, panthaleon wrote:
Wow we're counting this as toxicity? Y'all wouldn't have lasted a single game back in my day. Rabble rabble get off my lawn.In post 5505, EspressoPatronum wrote:@panth - I'd enjoy it if panth dialed back the toxicity a bit.
Scumreading someone (ie. nom) shouldn't be a free pass to treat them poorly... even if they're not playing to your expectations.
Please don't take it personally. Just trying to keep things civil.-
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I point you to Exhibit A:In post 5515, Ankamius wrote:
The frequency is irrelevant. The relevant point is that what you had posted is all drivel.In post 5503, EspressoPatronum wrote:
You're talking as if I've been present for most of the in-game day. I was VLA for several days and was clear that my week has been busy.In post 5463, Ankamius wrote:[...]Even today, almost all of EP's posts are simply explaining exactly the same things you have, except in a much more bland way, and a single lukewarm stance on wanting to lynch nom.
That's it.
Pretending that I've been in here giving a bunch of bland posts is disingenuous.
In post 4622, EspressoPatronum wrote:@Ank Feel free to ignore that wall, too. People will forget about it in a few days + you can resume your discrediting campaign.-
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Yes, Ank is my biggest scumread.In post 5521, Dr Easy Bake wrote: Now EP is voting my biggest townread?
Can you walk me through your townread of her?-
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Two questions:In post 5527, Dr Easy Bake wrote:
I think it's mostly due to the amount of pro-town effort they are putting forth, it all seems very genuine to me.In post 5525, EspressoPatronum wrote:
Yes, Ank is my biggest scumread.In post 5521, Dr Easy Bake wrote: Now EP is voting my biggest townread?
Can you walk me through your townread of her?
1. Do you think scum!Ank would be capable of putting in the same level of effort?
2. What specific posts or stances have been pro-town to you?-
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For what it's worth, I agree that nom giving her reads would be helpful. I just think attacking her play is unnecessary, as you did here:In post 5530, panthaleon wrote:
If nom want to stop being called a useless slot, she is welcome to do something useful. I do not consider anything I've don't to be executively rude or hostileIn post 5518, EspressoPatronum wrote:
Yes, I would count excessive hostility and rudeness as toxicity. I'm not really concerned what the games were like back in your day as long as its unacceptable today.In post 5507, panthaleon wrote:
Wow we're counting this as toxicity? Y'all wouldn't have lasted a single game back in my day. Rabble rabble get off my lawn.In post 5505, EspressoPatronum wrote:@panth - I'd enjoy it if panth dialed back the toxicity a bit.
Scumreading someone (ie. nom) shouldn't be a free pass to treat them poorly... even if they're not playing to your expectations.
Please don't take it personally. Just trying to keep things civil.
_______________In post 5473, panthaleon wrote:Lmao I expected you to gun me down. You have played like shit, so gunning me down would just be par for the course
Re: the reads point - bob says that if nom and FB are town, scum may have given nom the shot if her reads were off.
Bob also says that if he were scum though, he'd want to ensure the vengeful went to scum.-
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If you think FB is town and town!you fypv knows you're town, then you know scum gave you the venge for a reason. It'd be best to give us your reads so we can compare them to FB.In post 5534, nomnomnom wrote:
Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah??? question mark???In post 5532, EspressoPatronum wrote:@nom do you think FB is town?-
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In post 5535, MariaR wrote:[...]
Go with me on this one, what about your playstyle do you think makes people consider you scummy? Also, since you think Ank and myself are on the scummy side of things how does this effect your read on well, everyone I suppose? Has your own self meta that we’re not aware of gone into your reads. Like, ‘Why is X townreading me’ ‘Y scumreading me makes sense.’ I don’t like to look at meta myself, but you should get where my line of questioning is going.In post 5504, EspressoPatronum wrote:Regarding the reads on my slot (Ank, MariaR, EC), I would encourage anyone to review some of my past games. My playstyle often leaves people with scummy vibes, as you will see in several of my games. My first Newbie game, Pokemon Ruby, and Make Me Regret This Upick are all examples of people scumreading me for reasons similar to your scumreads of me this game. As FL can attest, I warned him about this in our hood several days ago... my playstyle often looks scummy.Playstyle
I believe the primary reason for my playstyle seeming scummy is because I learned forum mafia on a different site. I have observed that site meta (or site culture, even) and conformity with said meta plays a big role in people's early reads on one another, as there isn't a lot else to go off of. Since I learned in and prefer a different site meta, people mistake my different focus for scumminess. This early scumread on me usually subsides over time though, as I apparently end up obvtowning eventually. I caught a ton of flak for my interest in mechanics and flavour in Mainstream Mafia II, but most people came around to it eventually.
The secondary reason is the way I type +/ post. I try to keep my posts analytical and point-first, tending toward lists and organization to help the reader stay with me. In my Coalition game, Spangled repeatedly scumread me for a "weirdly formal" tone or something like that. I have no interest in changing my writing style, so I'll just have to live with this one.
Site Meta
The primary differences to this site were:
- shorter days with a majority lynch at the end of the day (eg. 2 real days with a lynch on the biggest wagon at day-end)
- there was only ever one or two games ongoing at one time. As a product of this, the games tend to have more players
- since there were more players, there were more roles. More roles = more mechanics. While I think I picked up my mechanical interest from large F2F Werewolf/mafia games, these games also played a factor in shaping my interest.
- lots of people like reads lists in those games. While I see many people use reads lists on this site, I've noticed a general reluctance to consolidate reads into one post. In any event, full reads lists feel rarer here.
My Reads
Regarding how I interpret those scumreads on me -- I don't put much weight into the early scumreads of me based on my mechanical focus or analytical reasoning. It's sometimes annoying, but I try not to focus on it too much. Instead, I try to engage withwhypeople dislike the mechanics +/ my reasoning. If the 'why' doesn't hold up to scrutiny +/ it looks like they're going for an easy lynch, I tend to find that player scummy. I used this method to help me get a read on you, chenn, dave, and I think a few others when you were all saying you disliked the neighbourhood distribution reveal. If you look back, your and Chenn's initial reluctance to engage with my reasoning caused me to scumlean you. I ended up changing to a townread on both of you for different reasons, and again changing my read on you for different reasons later.
Regarding how my read on you and Ank has affected my other reads --
Ank -- I've been wary about joining Ank's targets. She's mostly made it easy for me bcz she's scumreading a lot of my townreads, but the tough one for me was DV. Ank posted a scumread list a while ago listing me, FL, A50, and DV as her top scumreads. My team and I have a townread on A50, so I assumed Ank would be bussing DV. Now that he flipped, I'm not so sure. In any event, Ank has been consistently pushing mislynches (especially fmpv, as I know I'm town), so she's pretty much lockscum for me.
You -- as I mentioned yesterday, the foundation of my scumread on you came from the inventor+RB theory. Your teamwork with Ank yesterday set off a lot of alarm bells for me + solidified my read on you. Given DV's flip and your behaviour today, I'm less sure of you. I'd say it's more of a nullscum now.
Haha, I do what I can.
You’re making the pot look real sweet at the moment. I suppose I didn’t really look at this outlook.[...]In post 5506, EspressoPatronum wrote:
Gobble thinks Ank is using nom as a way to gain a better position in the late game.In post 5499, MariaR wrote:I don't wanna think about Ank being scum because if I have to get into a 1v1 with Ank I'll lose. Her recent posting is really bad, but it begs the question why did she basically save the nom wagon. And while yes EC can make those notes as scum really, he doesn't need to.
As long as I'm still alive, you won't have to 1v1 Ank.-
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You haven't engaged with me because you can't do so without arguing in bad faith.In post 5558, Ankamius wrote:like
do you know why I haven't engaged EP at all like the last 3-4 times he engaged me?
it's because I know that it's going to do nothing to convince people of my scumread on him, he's no threat because he's not going to be able to convince anybody that don't already think I'm scum that I'm scum (and that hasn't gotten him anywhere either), and the risk of people just tuning both of us out through an extended 1v1 engagement is an inherently worse thing for me than him
there's literally no reason for me to engage him, so I don't.
I engaged with your posts and even read through your linked games. I pointed you to games that would answer EC's playstyle SR on me, but it's evident you haven't looked into them.
The best way for you to discredit me is to pretend I don't matter. I'm not going away any time soon.-
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Team reads:
Ank - Gobble and Mena both think Ank is scum.
MariaR - Gobble says MariaR has consistently done a town tell, but he was also iffy on yesterday's posts. I'll have to see what everyone thinks on the recent posts.
FB - Gobble and bob think FB is probably town. Mostly for mechanical reasons surrounding the commuter hood removal.
Nom - Gobble and bob think nom is probably scum. In part due to yesterday's posts + in part due to the commuter hood LMS.
FL - Gobble thinks FL is town. Mostly due to town meta play.
@DEB - do you think Mena would be able to accurately read you this game? Why/why not?-
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I'm mixed on panth but I trust kuribo. What do they think?In post 5566, MariaR wrote:My hood certainly has gotten interesting within the last page. I don't know if it means anything, but I'm noted the sudden change of reads and influence.-
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It's worth mentioning that I incorrectly read kuribo in both games I've played with him, so take my read on him lightlyIn post 5570, MariaR wrote:
Kuri said a lot of his tr on you was from EC and kinda gave some reasons to vote you that I nodded along to. Panth is all of a sudden thinking someone in our hood could be scum. Now, normally this would be fine but the timing of this makes me perk an eyebrow.In post 5568, Ankamius wrote:
that's spicyIn post 5566, MariaR wrote:My hood certainly has gotten interesting within the last page. I don't know if it means anything, but I'm noted the sudden change of reads and influence.
what has changed?
Other way around for me. I still think Vex was super towny and town slipped. We vibed super well in the hood. If I'm mixed on anyone it's Kuri. Why do you think I'm voting Ank? She like, solves 2 slots for me that make it almost easy winIn post 5569, EspressoPatronum wrote:
I'm mixed on panth but I trust kuribo. What do they think?In post 5566, MariaR wrote:My hood certainly has gotten interesting within the last page. I don't know if it means anything, but I'm noted the sudden change of reads and influence.
He (as scum) was my top TR in Pastries before he ended up subbing out.
I had him as scumlean for a while in the Purge II. He and I died to NKs too soon for my read to change, but I'll count it as incorrect bcz he was town.-
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You should put the pots away for now and load up a real shot against Ank. All aboard the Ank wagon!In post 5575, Flavor Leaf wrote:
Yes, I have, and if you’d notice, the opportunity and traction to vote you came up and I have yet to vote you, which contradicts this line of reasoning.In post 5554, MariaR wrote:Do you remember how FL has taken potshots at me all game and tried to wagon me and now he magically does not speak my name or vote me when the traction to vote me is gone? Cause I sure do.
Don’t act like you’re special with the potshots being thrown at you all game, I’m throwing pot shots all over the place when people need a pot shot at them.-
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And by rally, she means continually telling us we're going to lose to a scum sweep.In post 5576, kuribo wrote:You can't just declare yourself a town leader and expect people to fall in line
"I've been trying to rally people since day 3"
Ohhhh right but nobody listened, and it's because we don't trust you.
I've never been to such a demoralizing rally before.-
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Ah right, thank you for the reminder.In post 5603, Gammagooey wrote:@EP - DEB already said we made Ank lovedIn post 5079, Dr Easy Bake wrote:Hey Ank, I’ve got a message from Math
Spoiler:
This is still possible, don’t give up. Don’t play into their hands, Scum WANTS you demoralized.
I agree full heartedly, you have been our leader, don’t leave us.
Btw, I wanna bring something iffy up that I’m thinking about.
So Chenn was the kill last night, and guess who wanted to use our power to make Chenn loved?
Gamma said they wanted to make Chenn loved, which, I wasn’t necessarily against. But I wanted to make Ank loved. Now, I made my small case and Gamma said they’d vote Ank along with me. Once I saw the kill flip I got to thinking. IF Gamma was scum, wouldn’t wanting Chenn loved right before he gets killed make sense? This would effectively render our group power useless for the night.
Also, if Chenn was so widely townread, what’s the point in wanting to use our group loved shot on him? He was not going to be wagoned/lynched.
I’m not outright calling gamma scum, but I feel very suspicious rn. What do y’all think?
Can you tell me who the third is/was + when you targeted them?
I have FL as a loved target, but I'm unclear if he was on N1 or N2.-
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Weird. Why didn't you choose anyone?In post 5619, Firebringer wrote:
No oneIn post 5602, EspressoPatronum wrote:@nom @FB who did you commute last night?
@Gamma @DEB - Who have you made loved?
I can't remember if you've said already, but I think the knowledge would be useful.
Nom said in PT she would commute ank
@nom why did you commute Ank instead of one of the doctors?-
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In my massclaim, I said the lightning rod is X-shot. FL and I specifically talked about doing this in our hood to make it seem stronger + thus more of a threat to scum.
So, @Ank, how did you know it was a 1-shotIn post 4098, EspressoPatronum wrote:MASSCLAIM:
Hood: Leading Actors
Members: EP, FL, X Elements
Power: Doctor
LMS: X-shot lightning rodbeforeanyone in the thread mentioned it?
In post 4132, Ankamius wrote:RED ALERT
Please finish the massclaim:
Almost50 - Ankamius - Chennisden- Vote Remove / Vigilante
Elements - EspressoPatronum - Flavor Leaf- Doctor / 1shot Lightning Rod
Firebringer - nomnomnom - Volpe14- Commuter / Vengeful
Kuribo - MariaR - Panthaleon- Roleblocker / ???
Dr Easy Bake - Gammagooey - Volxen- ??? / ???
Davesaz - Deasvail - Farkran- Inventor / ???
Basically everything is out already so there's no reason to just leave the rest unclaimed
(this message from EC)-
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Then please ask EC where he learned that the X-shot was 1-shotIn post 5725, Ankamius wrote:How about EC was the one keeping track of this shit since he was the one that wanted a massclaim-
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- Joined: May 24, 2019
These are all possible. It's also possible that scum has individual powers akin to the revealing powers.In post 5718, Almost50 wrote:
Good catch! Good catch indeed!!In post 5708, EspressoPatronum wrote:In my massclaim, I said the lightning rod is X-shot. FL and I specifically talked about doing this in our hood to make it seem stronger + thus more of a threat to scum.
So, @Ank, how did you know it was a 1-shotIn post 4098, EspressoPatronum wrote:MASSCLAIM:
Hood: Leading Actors
Members: EP, FL, X Elements
Power: Doctor
LMS: X-shot lightning rodbeforeanyone in the thread mentioned it?
In post 4132, Ankamius wrote:RED ALERT
Please finish the massclaim:
Almost50 - Ankamius - Chennisden- Vote Remove / Vigilante
Elements - EspressoPatronum - Flavor Leaf- Doctor / 1shot Lightning Rod
Firebringer - nomnomnom - Volpe14- Commuter / Vengeful
Kuribo - MariaR - Panthaleon- Roleblocker / ???
Dr Easy Bake - Gammagooey - Volxen- ??? / ???
Davesaz - Deasvail - Farkran- Inventor / ???
Basically everything is out already so there's no reason to just leave the rest unclaimed
(this message from EC)
The problem is this has like 1163 different explanations!
Like, Scum!Ank slipped? She either knew it from you (EP) or from FL... OR made a logical deduction (how many shots does a Lightening Rod usually get anyway??), or it was mentioned in the Scum PT with NEITHER FL/EP being Scum, or it was her skimming and not paying much attention... etc.
I'm not so much concerned which specific scenario gave her the information, rather than the fact that she had the information before it was public knowledge.
She had the chance to tell us, but she instead decided to deflect by joking and then deflect again onto EC.
You're right... It could be NAI. It could also be a scum slip.Town!Ank ALSO could've skimmed and made that assumption, or could have deduced it. She obviously would not have learned about it from either of FL/EP nor would she have read in the Scum PT, but she could also be making a WRONG assumption and you really are X shot (where X > 1, which is unlikely but theoretically valid).
Oh, wait! It could have been from her TEAM PT (and it still could be Town or Scum).
I'll spare you what the other 1153 explanations are for now (saving some space and time), but to sum it all up.. this is NAI. (Note: NAI as IT COULD BE TRUE IR IT COULD BE FALSE).
In light of several other reasons to scumread Ank - many of which I've outlined in past posts - I think it's a scum slip.
What if she learned it by other means?My question here is: WHAT DO SCUM GAIN FROM A LIGHTNING ROD ABILITY?? Do they want to redirect the kill unto themselves?? If so, WHY THE HELL DID THEY SABOTAGE THE COMMUTER HOOD BEFOREHAND? It was their ONLY way to survive without being sus as hell. (Note: FL declared he won't be using the ability and it does look bad on him of he doesn't die either way).
Still, I don't think the designers decided to factor in precisely THAT, and thus still think EP/FL are both Town, hence Ank could not have learned about the 1-shot thing from either, and thus it still is bloody NAI in my book.
Do you think all of my other posts outlining Ank's scumminess are disingenuous?P.S. I could very much bend my narrative ANYWAY you like me to. I mean, Yes.. Ank is Scum with FL and you can reread the whole game and find a load of fitting evidence. Or you can assume Ank is Town and EP is Scum trying to capitalize on an honest mistake and you still could find enough evidence to support the case too.
These are all great considerations. You could also ask yourself why town wants you to get the vig. To answer that, I suggest you shoot nom.Now another question: Why would Scum want to give ME the Vig shot?? I don't think ANYONE would be able to guess whom I might shoot (not even I tbh) at this point.
So, you see.. this -and more- is all going through my head, and I don't know what to do!
Shooting nom nullifies the risk of scum!nom venge killing someone, but it opens us to the risk of town!nom losing a venge kill on potential scum.
As it stands, my team and I think you're far more likely town than nom, so I'd rather give you the choice to kill than nom.-
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EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
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I have one example.In post 5729, Ankamius wrote:Like what exactly
When I questioned you on your weak push on me earlier, you hid behind your teammates' reads instead of standing behind the push.
I'm certain there's more, but that one jumped to mind.-
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EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
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@Ank, please see the "you're dodging my questions" section below for an illustration of my comment in 5731In post 4621, EspressoPatronum wrote:
In addition to your disingenuous pushes on me, I present the following:In post 4620, Ankamius wrote:if you think you can turn that into a scumcase, then by all means
You only vote safe wagons
How about the fact that you're always pushing the lowest resistance wagons?
D1 - Elements (town), EP
D2 - volxen (3p), EP, nom
D3 - FB, DEB, EP, nom
In the current gamestate, calling any of me, FB, nom, DEB scum isn't exactly a risky move. You've been doing the same thing in past days, too. Pushing Elements, volxen, me, and nom is past days was always safe. Even your #hotake today that nom is town came after the nom wagon started losing steam. Once again, a safe move that won't rock the boat.
This game is inconsistent with your town meta
You said:
Please show me how your gameplay here has been reframing the town perspective when you're consistently pushing easy wagons.In post 3552, Ankamius wrote:[...]
if you looked at the three games I consider my strongest performances on the site as a whole (the three I gave are only from this year), you'll see that those games basically never feature a successful scum push from me.My strongest town games come from me shutting down town lynches and reframing the town's mind from an incorrect one to a correct one. doing this correctly basically puts town in a position where it doesn't even matter if I'm there or not, they will be able to close out the game and scum can't do anything without outing themselves.
Your recent play has been the exact opposite of shutting down wagons. You're the main pusher behind most of your wagons. And before you cite the gamestate as an excuse, recall that we've only gotten 1 lynch so far. Elements for modkilled, so that's not on us.
You're dodging questions
When I call you out on your scummy behaviour, you either ignore me (4452) or deflect onto your team (see below).
You can find other instances of Ank dodging my questions on a brief skim through both our ISOs.In post 3556, Ankamius wrote:
I've mentioned already that a lot of why I'm on you is because two of my teammates specifically scumread you (dannflor) or want you lynched today (eddie cane)In post 3546, EspressoPatronum wrote:Gobble wants to know why Ank is voting me today when she wanted nom as the counterwagon.
If Ank is town, doesn't that make nom look worse in Ank's eyes? Where does the vote on me come from?
I'm personally not townreading you and afaik they aren't thinking of nom anywhere near as scummy as you, so I'm ok with being swayed by that
Your votes today are scummy
Every single one of your posts today has been taking safe bets.
With the exception of your recent town!nom take (which again, came after the wagon started losing steam), I haven't seen you shut down any of these popular wagons.In post 4616, Ankamius wrote:VOTE: EspressoPatronum
EC is on board with a50/FL/EP as scum
Dann thinks EP has the highest odds of flipping scum of the four
Your purported town game is one of shutting down town mislynches and reorienting the town. Your gameplay today stands in stark contrast to these goals.
Here's a other example of you deflecting answers onto your team:
In post 4680, EspressoPatronum wrote:
Having it in your discord doesn't help us at all.In post 4673, Ankamius wrote:
I shat my thought process all over the discordIn post 4664, Almost50 wrote:
But you said he had a HARD TOWN READ on me earlier. Now what exactly has changed in "less than one complete cycle"?In post 4616, Ankamius wrote:EC is on board with a50/FL/EP as scum
Please walk us through your thought process.-
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EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
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You're giving the result when we're repeatedly asking for the process. That's scummy.In post 5736, Ankamius wrote:I'd hope it would be clear in 4673 that I swayed him but I guess not
I'd hope it would be clear in 3556 that they swayed me but I guess not-
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EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
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Clarity helps town.In post 5738, Ankamius wrote:Like what the actual fuck is this
Do I speak some Martian language that make people not understand what subtlety is or do I need to always be talking like I'm in a room full of toddlers
"Sublety" is one of many excuses behind which scum can hide.
Correct me if I'm wrong... are you saying you answered my case by saying you choose not to engage with it?In post 5740, Ankamius wrote:And btw I did answer the ignoring thing indirectly when I said what fights I pick but I suppose I wasted my breath there too!-
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EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
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EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
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Thanks for laying this out. I appreciate it, ECIn post 5744, Ankamius wrote:A message from Eddie Cane!
btw, EP, since you're newer to the game, I'll take the time to go into this and why it's nonsense. none of it acknowledges the point that scum would be more careful to keep things consistent, and therefore are less likely to "scum slip" than town are.
1. if it's not a scum slip, then it's just not a scum slip. it explains itself.
2. if it IS a scumslip, then you are arguing that it's a Ank+FL scumteam, because a town!EP knows that it's not a Ank+EP scumteam.
2-b. here's the issue with this; you've shot down everything that would indicate a scum!FL, so you need to either accept that FL is just scum or acknowledge that this is just not an actual scum slip.
0. You're right, scum are careful to keep things consistent. However, I don't see why I should dismiss the possibility of TMI when it becomes apparent.
1. Totally fair. I have no way of knowing though, so I'm free to consider this equally with other explanations for your extra knowledge.
2. This is a false dichotomy. Ank + FL is indeed a possiblity, but it is not the only possibility fmpv. Per the power revealer roles, I know (or at least can logically assume) scum have secret roles. Even if FL is town, it's still possible for scum!Ank to acquire the 1-shot knowledge.-
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EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
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Not anymore. The lightning rod no longer provides a free ML bcz we lost the commuter hood.In post 5937, MariaR wrote: pedit: Yeah Ank it's cool and we get a free ML if we lynch in the lighting rod hood-
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EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
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My assumption was that dave's commute is a self commute.In post 5944, MariaR wrote:
We have Dave's JOAT right?In post 5940, EspressoPatronum wrote:
Not anymore. The lightning rod no longer provides a free ML bcz we lost the commuter hood.In post 5937, MariaR wrote: pedit: Yeah Ank it's cool and we get a free ML if we lynch in the lighting rod hood
If FL flips town you're probably scum but you already promised to use the lighting rod shot etc so you're outted in that example.
But if FL flips scum you have 2 options A) Use the Lighting rod or B) Don't. The thing is if mafia risks trying to kill or not because Dave can just use his watcher shot and A50 doesn't use the vig. Get the idea? Scum risk outting.
@dave can you clarify?-
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EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
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EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
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How close am I able to replicate/paraphrase the message without quoting it?In post 5954, nomnomnom wrote:
I'm not sure I understandIn post 5951, EspressoPatronum wrote:Lmao, now I have FL in the doctor hood telling MariaR he needs her vote on Ank.
Is this some next level attempt at derailing an Ank wagon? Or did FL just slip??-
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EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
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This is correct.In post 5961, Flavor Leaf wrote:I said I think we need your vote on Ank, Maria
Not Panth or FB.
2 separate posts. I didn’t look at it like that, but I guess I see why he’d call it out like that.-
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EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
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But my vote was also on Ank alreadyIn post 5957, Flavor Leaf wrote:
Maria’s vote was already on Ank. I was telling you I wanted your vote on one of them.In post 5951, EspressoPatronum wrote:Lmao, now I have FL in the doctor hood telling MariaR he needs her vote on Ank.
Is this some next level attempt at derailing an Ank wagon? Or did FL just slip??-
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EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
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I have no idea what's going on... that's why I brought it up to the group. IIn post 5964, MariaR wrote:
? My vote is already on Ank? Is this some last ditch effort or something? No, FL isn't the selfless type.In post 5951, EspressoPatronum wrote:Lmao, now I have FL in the doctor hood telling MariaR he needs her vote on Ank.
Is this some next level attempt at derailing an Ank wagon? Or did FL just slip??
Why would FL ask for your vote on Ank in the doctor PT?
I already asked my team what they think. More to come when they weigh in.-
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EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
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Agreed. Or they want to deflect off Ank long enough to kill A50 and nullify our vig shot(s).In post 5978, davesaz wrote:If FB and Ank are scum together with additional powers, Ank's power is better.-
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EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
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He's in a hood with just me. Elements was our third but died.In post 5990, nomnomnom wrote:FL can you remind me which hood you're in and with who I have a short memory-
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EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
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EspressoPatronum Mafia Scum
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Whether FL accidentally posted in the doc hood instead of the Scum PT.In post 6041, MariaR wrote:What exactly are you trying to sort out?[...]
If it's the scum PT, then you and FL are scum. If it's just a miscommunication, then I'll go back on my merry way.
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