Newbie 2107 | Random Music | Postgame

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VOTE: CCGeek

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Is the music random or is it music you like?? I like Skyscraper

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it’s justified

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Second time ever playing a forum mafia game so: what is v/la? :think:

The answer is in here: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... reviations

It’s a good resource regardless

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biancospino replaces ay136416. Please welcome them!

Welcome!

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Why are we saying to get things started? I already got things started

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Hahahahahha

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I mean, things have definitely gotten started and warmed up. There are plenty of things to talk about. For example:
1) I haven’t unvoted you
2) I have two votes on me
3) many people have posted but haven’t really posted yet.
4) everything you say is unrelated to each other and you keep pulling the conversation in different directions

How do those things make you feel?

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2) the second vote on me was funny and made me chuckle out loud, although the other two posts from HH haven’t added any value

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HH’s vote was for comedic effect and I find that post to be less concerning than his other two posts.

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In the Quick Reply box, click "Preview". Then, above the text box, click "vote". Then, put who you want to vote for in between the vote tags.

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biancospino I agree with you re: HH

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for anyone who wants to participate and isn't sure how to jump into it, just start talking about the game. pick a post or an action that's interesting. tell us how it makes you feel, whether it's alignment-indicative etc. If someone else shares, respond to it and give your take on it as well whether you agree or disagree. it's good for the town for everyone to be talking. if you're town, there's nothing to be afraid of regarding sharing your thoughts and feelings. the sooner we all are active and talk about the game, the better it is for the town.

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Ego

To that extent, and sorry if I'm being really oblivious here, what does this (ego) even mean? I'm sure it's obvious, but I'm frankly not much into forum culture

On this forum, ego-posting is where you post in a thread so that it appears on your list of recently commented threads. that is how some people navigate the site, especially if you are normally visiting multiple threads.

For the intents and purposes of the game, elmo hasn't posted anything other than saved the thread to his active thread list.

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Is that not doing anything because of the way I’ve done it or because you can’t vote for yourself

also, you can technically vote for yourself. town should never vote for themselves (except for maybe during RVS). scum can vote for themselves, sometimes there's utility in hammering the lim on yourself to cut the day short and prevent discussion.

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In general, I’m not sure how to feel about talking a lot in the first day. On one hand, it shows that the player is into the game, which is good no matter their alignment, and willing to express how they’re feeling, which tends to be good for the town. However, I feel like there are so many reasons to talk if you’re against the town. Maybe you want to seem like you are willing to express how you feel, without it actually having any weight. Maybe you want to shift attention to others. Both of those would be pretty low risk, potentially high reward for someone against the town. So at least in the first 100 hours or so of this game, I don’t think there’s much value in reading into people’s comments, presence or lack thereof

Hmm. I disagree with some of this. Town is town, so they have nothing to hide. Because they have nothing to hide, they can share their thoughts with very little risk.

Scum has something to hide; they know everyone's alignment. They have to tiptoe around not giving anything away. Later in the game, when peoples' roles have been flipped, going back to read their thoughts from day one is really valuable.

I agree with you when you say that when you're against the town, you want to seem like you are willing to express things without having any weight. That is absolutely true. That is the biggest thing I am looking for at this point in the game. Not wanting the game to "start" yet is anti-town. RVS should ideally be as short as possible so that we can get to the meat of the game.

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Too early to form solid reads but I'll take a shot anyway:
Hyrule: Every post is some form of filler, even after Redados tries to induce discussion. Neutral, slightly scummy.
Redados: Tries to make thread control early d1 and ends up with 2 votes on him. Kind of a wonk display, but also makes a scumhunting play, so d1 reads: Town
biancospino: Puts in an RVS vote and makes a general observation. Not necessarily scummy, but not really towny either.
Baron: Wants (?) to discuss but doesn't post. Kind of wack, slightly scummy, again.
Brickwalll: I sure hope he doesn't start lurking often after his highly energetic introductory post. Else, later on in the game, we'd literally be...

talking to a brick wall.

Try this for filler. Redados made an attempt at thread control, possibly to highlight the attributes of others rather than himself. Doesn't seem like a good move if he was scum, though, because instantly initiating an exchange instead in which one will be analyzed seems far riskier for scum than just waiting for a bandwagon, or attempting to fall into the background. CCGeek, my friend, you are also open to discuss the attributes of others, yet you appear to have done so in a way that seems rather unbiased, and doesn't seem to directly call any one person out. Can't tell if that's townie or just patience for a scum, but either way, it's too early to really tell what others might be up to just yet. CONCLUSION: I know nothing. Time to wait for y'all to slip up or get voted. Fun.

There is some good insight here, especially in the first half of your paragraph. In CCG's defense, reads lists this early in the game are garbage. But I appreciate effort, even if it's too early. We can look at how his reads lists develop throughout the day (and the game) and use that to judge his alignment

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I have refrained from referring to myself as town thus far, as instantly labelling myself as such when there is little reason to suspect otherwise is incredibly suspicious, but I did find such a label on myself necessary in order to explain my line of thinking.

I am town.

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Ok just while we’re in the RVS let me test something

VOTE: Baron Kirkholm Uttgart

Hey Guys just tuning in, not read through all the posts yet, where is everyone at? Anyone particularly standing out to anyone so far?

Little unsure why you are trying to test self voting? What could town ever utilise this for? Hmm

I'll show you what it's suppose to look like, here, glad I could help

VOTE: Baron Kirkholm Uttgart

he's clearly learning the forum mechanics, but I'll let you cook.

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UNVOTE:

VOTE: Elmo

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I skimmed over the posts so far and no comments on the Elmo BW, except the fact that he will be on T/LA till tomorrow (post #5).
However, HH definitely started becoming chattier. Some of his arguments do have merit, yes. But I don't have the time in hand rn to poke holes in his posts, will probably do that once I'm back in the evening.
Brickwall and bianco feel neutrally townish atm, and we have almost no fruitful interaction with Elmo to get a grasp on his behaviour/alignment.
Spartan and chazary attempting a wagon after the initial d1 discussion is fair. BUT, I'm not sure how to read into it, however. Or if it is worth reading into.

Thanks for pointing out that Elmo is V/LA, I didn’t notice that. UNVOTE:

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I felt this whole paragraph to be not of much value. It is quite straight forward what you say with a lot of assumptions in between. You also managed a little self-promotion with '

i.m obviously very chatty

. This, along with your omelette breaking comment, is starting to raise some flags imo.

Ouch. But, you do know how to make an omelette, right? You do need to break eggs. As for how that analogy relates to this game, well, that's obvious. Not everyone here is going to make it out of this with their heads resting firmly on their shoulders as they do now. Either the Mafia gets you or you're voted off, either way, a big component of this game is who gets the axe. Also, I don't really care if you think my paragraph is of any value, as this would depend entirely upon your standards of what constitutes as valuable. Since you are a stranger on the internet to me, I have no idea (yet) of what you hold as valuable or invaluable. For clarity's sake, where did you find some of my assumptions? I might be able to clear up some of the confusion I've created. As for my comment about myself being chatty, do you find it false? Redados was chatty, and you took the time to respond to several posts in order to catch up, and are chatty as well. I was really just stating the obvious. Besides, what kind of egotistical idiot would I have to be in order to actually believe that saying the equivalent of, "GUYS I'M SUPER INNOCENT AND NOT SCUM" would help garner any trust or alleviate any legitimate accusations? The answer is just a slightly more moronic version of myself as I am right now. Lastly, I'd like to state that I appreciate your input, as keeping each other in check by questioning our statements is a key component of all of this. I'm glad you highlighted where any misconceptions lay within my posts, and poked a few holes in it.

I am super innocent and not scum.

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Elmo following the thread but yet to post is interesting. Nothing much to comment on otherwise.

If you had the weekend I had. You would be recovering also. I'll have a look tomorrow or something soon.

I think we should put the game on hold and listen to Elmo's weekend, sounds like a story I definitely want to hear I hope you have recovered and the head isn't too sore anymore! Looking forward to seeing your thoughts.

Let’s not put the game on hold.

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Thanks for the reminder about Elmo's V/LA. I also did not see that. However, how was I attempting a wagon? As far as I know I was the first to vote for Elmo.

Well, redados immediately hooked onto elmo the moment you made the post and when I made my post the 2-vote wagon on Elmo was existing. HOWEVER. I'll also admit that I was half awake when I made that post, so it skipped my mind that you were the one who voted Elmo when

no comments on the Elmo BW.

But yes, in agreement with chazary, HH has been coming off as defensive. Not enough for me to convince myself he's voteworthy. On the flip side of things, I see solid value posts from brickwall and bianco engaging in selective questioning. Definitely great towny vibes. And then comes Baron... still mostly lurking and keeping his posts on the fillerish side of things... and wtf was the vote-unvote on Spartan?
And speaking of Spartan, he's been the MOST low-key person this game yet? The weird thing is no one except Baron (the other low-key person who also happens to be widely anti-townread) has really paid any attention to him. And then, Baron just... unvotes??? I do not like this development at all. Just to put some pressure on this slot, VOTE: Spartan

I still don't have unshakeable SRs, just suspicions, and part of that is due to the fact that I'm not really spotting any interaction that can point to scum pairs (yes I'm looking for this shit this early into d1). The closest thing I could find to 1-on-1 interactions are mine and redados' interactions on like page 1, Elmo's replies, and Baron and HH's interaction (most weird one to me being that in post #26).

I'll be heading off to sleep now, and will mostly lurk tomorrow due to IRL stuff. Hoping to get back into action on Thursday.

It was me who hopped on the Elmo bandwagon and it is also me who is hopping on the Spartan bandwagon:
VOTE: Spartan

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Lastly, I will say again, ‘lurking’, ‘filler’ and ‘low-keyness’ in my opinion are just not things worth judging at this stage of the game, but I don’t get the impression that that is something a lot of people agree with right now- I just think as long as someone is contributing in a way that progresses the gameplay every now and then, talking off-topic or not at all is totally fine in what is a social game. What are your thoughts?

Not necessarily alignment-indicative but bad for the town nonetheless.

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HH is limbait

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HH is limbait

Sorry, I'm not sure what that terminology means, and I can't seem to find it on the wiki, would you mind explaining it?

I’m having a bit of trouble finding the explanation through google so it’s not just you.

It means I think you are acting scummy but I think you’re town nonetheless, and scum would try to take advantage of your play to vote you off.

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UNVOTE:

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Baron how would you place offensive vs defensive in terms of alignment? I always saw scum hunting as pro-town.

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I’d also love to know from your experience how that plays out. For example, have you often played games where the very quietest people at the start end up being scum? Or is it more often the loudest at the start? What about the most vs least offensive players?

Statistically, in completed games, more often than not I don’t make it to the end of the game alive. The most important thing to do if I am not alive is to leave behind a body of interactions that helps those alive solve the puzzle. Quiet people always helped scum, even if they were town. It’s very bad for the town that we are not talking very much.

Same for offensive vs defensive. People active and scum hunting leave behind a more understandable body of interactions to judge after they flip. It helps the town. It’s harder for scum to scum hunt.

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VOTE: Chazary

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Everyone should vote for chazary

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Chazary you still have a vote on Elmo correct?

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Chazary you still have a vote on Elmo correct?

Yeah. Not sure if it’s taboo to leave a vote on someone you didn’t realize was V/LA, but I thought I’d rather leave mine since it was first anyway to apply some pressure upon their return.

your vote is not doing anything. not taboo just not pro-town.

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put your vote somewhere where it does something

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Welcome hellhound. Now we can’t say “HH” anymore because we have two of them

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You’re right about my vote not being super helpful for town. But I also don’t want to risk causing a bandwagon by voting someone else. And I could always unvote but now that it’s tuesday I want to see what Elmo’s contribution is first.

Now that Elmo should be back from V/LA, that vote has more value than it had while he was on V/LA (which is *no* value)

You’re worried about risking causing a bandwagon? Why would that be bad? That sounds like a scum line of thinking. Say more.

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On Day One, when we haven’t seen flips or night kills, your vote is your strongest tool. Use it.

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VOTE: Elmo

That’s E-2

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Did anyone else just see Chazary start a bandwagon on Elmo???????

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Happy to have you join us, hellhound!

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Hellhound I think that Hyrule’s comments fit the noob!town profile more than they fit the noob!scum profile. I think his play is not very good. What are your thoughts on that?

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chazary... care to explain what you mean? this is literally d1. wagoning is what is going to net us info. your post screams anti-town. But yes, I'm not sure if this single statement is enough to make me SR you. You have a few value posts, after all. Also, I'm a bit hesitant about hopping on the Elmo wagon. My first time ever playing a game with someone V/LA. Pressure is undeniably good, but E-1 feels really too harsh on a person yet to post. And, it's just D1.

The first three sentences here are great. But the rest of what you say is hedging and really detracts from the first part of your post.

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I quoted too much, I didn’t mean to add the Elmo stuff

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Chazary can you quote the accusation after you voted Elmo

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I think that you read into that too much. CCGeek called your actions “fair” and that he wasn’t sure if they were worth reading into.

In my opinion, I would love to see you vote aggressively on day one, regardless of what CCGeek says.

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Baron who do you want to vote for right now

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UNVOTE: Elmo

That’s E-3

There you go, now you can vote for Elmo with confidence

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I value your participation and your vote. It’s good for the town for you to be involved and engaged

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VOTE: HyruleHitman7

I believe that’s E-2.

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Is @Elmo still V/LA?

He was only supposed to be V/LA until Tuesday

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@RH, is Elmo V/LA until Tuesday the 13th or the 20th?

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good vote I like it

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it's his first game, I really don't think it's alignment-indicative. definitely anti town though

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yep yep good vote

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I have indeed been coasting. let me explain why I like brickwall's vote so much

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towards the beginning of the game, I was universally townread. scum has no motivation to FOS at someone who is in that situation. also, my style of play did shift pretty notably. I'm still active, but less participatory. so for brickwall to tune into that, and to call it out when everyone else is claiming to townread me, that reads as town to me.

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if you guys are looking for other stuff to spot re: my play, I've been "defending" hyrule, but have kept my vote on him.

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Speaking of, can you explain your Hyrule vote? Was it to prompt a response or do you have suspicions? I feel like it’s unclear. And because it’s unclear I feel like bringing it up in this way is odd

Both when I cast it and now, it’s been the most effective place to put my vote. The votes on Hyrule got him to talk more, so mission accomplished. And the votes on Elmo unfortunately did not bring him back to participate with us.

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The day concludes in 4 days. Let’s not let it get too close to the deadline, a no-elimination would be bad. I would like our elim to happen with no more than 24 hours remaining until the deadline.

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I’m certainly not trying to do anything big brain

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I was just being lazy and got called out for it, rightfully so

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I don’t need to go on V/LA because I still expect and am looking forward to participating in the game during layovers and with possible plane WiFi, but I’ll be traveling for about 30 hours starting tomorrow morning.

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Who do you want to eliminate today

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I see why Elmo deserves votes to push him to be more active, but what on earth has he done or said to make you suspect him? He’s said and done absolutely nothing.

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Anti-town does not equal scum, especially when he just hasn’t done anything at all

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for vote count analysis, RVS doesn't matter. But it is up for debate exactly at which post RVS ended.

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for vote count analysis, RVS doesn't matter. But it is up for debate exactly at which post RVS ended.

Noob question, is there some manner of formula that is being used here to do the analysis?

Anti-town does not equal scum, especially when he just hasn’t done anything at all

I agree, I would not eliminate Elmo today, at least yet. Say, @redados, since you're both SE, so I presume you've played a decent amount of games on the site, do you happen to have past experiences playing with Elmo? If yes, would you say their usual playstyle is generally lurky?

nope, no formula that I know of. but you can ask Baron if he used a formula.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=VCA

I have never played a game with Elmo, or anyone else in this game. If you feel like putting in extra effort, you can go read peoples' past games, although that is often a lot of effort for little reward. definitely not out of the question though if you're looking for something to do.

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@biancospino and @baron, I think we’re past the point where a vote on Elmo is going to do anything. He’s clearly not here. Y’all should put your votes on who you want to eliminate today. I think that we’re at that point.

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@biancospino

You’re spot on that if he was around/not very active, your vote would put pressure on him to speak more. But he’s not even here to see your vote. I’m not going to tell mods how to mod (and RH is V/LA), but if his V/LA ended Tuesday, he should have gotten a prod midday yesterday and then after a certain amount of time he would be replaced if he continued to not respond.

(Would that be good? I’d rather have an active Elmo or an active replacement over an MIA Elmo).

But he’s not here. Your vote is not putting on any pressure. We aren’t going to/shouldn’t vote off someone who just straight up isn’t here. Put your vote somewhere useful. Preferably on the person you want to eliminate today. Were there. It’s time to decide.

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@Hyrule, in the interest of displaying what you're feeling, please cast a vote (or if you really don't want to, at least a FOS, thou such reluctance would merit some explanation)

I wanted to be careful with my vote. Now I realize it's better to try to keep things moving, and avoid complacency. There aren't any people that I'm sure are scum, but hellhound is, as I've mentioned, at the top of my list. So naturally, I'm pretty sure it's him before anyone else. So that's who I'm going to place my vote on. It's not because he voted me. Of course I know it looks this way, but to me logic dictates that I vote who ever I feel is scummiest.

VOTE: Hellhound1

Who do you think is partners with scum!hellhound?

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Thanks Alianna! Much appreciated

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Who do you think is partners with scum!hellhound?

Good question. If I had a definitive answer to that question, I definitely would let you all know. Unfortunately, I haven't quite narrowed it down to a point of certifiable precision. Although the two I suspect are Chazary and Baron, Baron slightly more. I only suspect them because they'd fit most with Hellhound, not necessarily because they are scummy on their own.

Thanks for giving your thoughts! Your thoughts have value. You don’t have to hedge, you could have started this paragraph with “the two I suspect”. The other stuff is unnecessary and weakens the power of what you say.

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For more “town points”, unless hyrule is scum partners with Elmo, you would think that his scum partner would have coached him out of this hedging in their PT by now.

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Spoiler: Regarding Redados' recent comments:

I’m certainly not trying to do anything big brain

I thought you were playing 4D chess at this point. All feels a bit chaotic.

Red, you're doing a lot of guiding (it is a newbie game after all) however you're not really contributing, pressuring or questioning. Yes, there is some urgency now for town to do something, so what can you say you've done so far? You seem pretty certain HH is town, so why is your vote still on him? Is there anyone else you suspect? Can you provide reasons for this?

I’m playing the game in a way that’s fun for me. I’m refreshing the thread multiple times per hour while I’m awake, having many one to one interactions, poking and guiding, and kind of doing a stream of consciousness thing. I don’t tend to play like this indefinitely but I’m happy with my play so far. At some point I’ll have to sit back and get more analytical, but I’m not there yet. Talk to me and I’ll talk back, as I have all game. If I missed something you want a response to, let me know.

Re: the vote. I have a feeling that getting off an elim today will be like pulling teeth. I’m less interested in casing anyone and more interested in making sure the elimination happens.

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“Tend” should be “intend” in the above post.

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VOTE: Hyrule

This is E-2

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hello, game. I wasn't able to keep up w/ the recent influx of posts, kind of swamped IRL, will catch up in time and share my thoughts. But from what I've gotten from skimming, tho, HH spoke up and shared reads due to pressure on him, with a plausible explanation for his previous behaviour. And suspects hh. Elmo still hasn't posted. Red makes a bigbrain play to root himself and Brickwall in the towncore permanently. Did I miss anything?

I don't like this post. For one thing, it transparently attempt to convey no content, which is already fishy. But most concerningly it tries to weasel in some nontrivial notions;

it quietly states that HH's explanations wrt. his behaviour are "plausible"

, which is dubious and in fact has been point of contention -- and also, it attempts to put words in Red's mouth which would have some implications.

Is CCG attempting to sneakily cover HH a bit or I'm overreading this?

I like this post by Biancospino

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I mean, things have definitely gotten started and warmed up. There are plenty of things to talk about. For example:
1) I haven’t unvoted you
2) I have two votes on me
3) many people have posted but haven’t really posted yet.
4) everything you say is unrelated to each other and you keep pulling the conversation in different directions

How do those things make you feel?

if you guys are looking for other stuff to spot re: my play, I've been "defending" hyrule, but have kept my vote on him.

At first, post 24 didn’t strike me as odd. But now that you’ve called out your own play twice, both in attempt to get someone else’s analysis, I gotta say it raises some flags. Which flags, though, I’m not so sure. You could be calling out your own play in order to spit out a predetermined response designed to make you look better. You could also just be trying to incite discussion but for whatever reason only about you.

The first example is purely me trying to get us out of RVS.

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Introduction and Tips

Introduction and Tips

Voting, E-x, and Hammers

E-x is a way to convey how far away a player is away from elimination. For example, you should always announce that you are putting someone at E-1 (1 vote away from an elimination) so that someone doesn’t come along and accidentally vote for that player's elimination. This also prevents Mafia-aligned players from coming along and placing the final vote to eliminate (“hammer”) and claiming ignorance about doing so. You may also see E-2 and E-3 (2 votes away from elimination and 3 votes away from elimination, respectively).

Before you hammer a player, state your intent to hammer (usually done in bold) and ask the player to claim their role. This is done to prevent power roles from being eliminated, and can sometimes get Mafia-aligned players to be caught (via counter claiming). It's best to then allow other players to react and discuss the claim before hammering.

Claiming Your Role

It is almost always best to not claim your role unless you are at E-1 and have been asked to claim as part of an “intent to hammer.” This is because, as a town power role (“PR”), if you out prematurely, you are likely to be night-killed (“NK’d”). As a Vanilla Townie (“VT”), claiming early helps the mafia team narrow down the setup and possible PR candidates. An exception to this would be if a mafia player claimed your role, claiming early to counter the false claim (“CC”) would out the mafia player, and would be a benefit to the town.

Do not fake claim a power role as town!

While it may help you avoid getting eliminated, you might cause a real PR to out themselves by counterclaiming - then the mafia will know who the PR is, and you will probably get eliminated for lying to town. Feel free to fake a claim as scum, though, if you think it would help.

You should always declare E-1. It's good manners to declare E-2, and in a larger game maybe even E-3. If you're voting right after a vote count, there's less urgency to do that stuff, but the idea is to take away the option of scum claiming they didn't know what the vote count was.

Leaving in the other stuff above as well as we get to the end of day one - it would probably be best for anyone in their first game to read that stuff.

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Your vote is on HH and yet you have suggested you think he is town, or rather that his posts are newb town and not scum. So, why is your vote still on HH? You've not answered my question. You have even alluded to this yourself, so whats the reason?

I'm having trouble answering this without sounding wishy washy, but I'm feeling wishy washy.

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Your vote is on HH and yet you have suggested you think he is town, or rather that his posts are newb town and not scum. So, why is your vote still on HH? You've not answered my question. You have even alluded to this yourself, so whats the reason?

I am voting him because I want to eliminate him. like I already said, I don't plan to case anyone else today. I don't feel very strongly about who we eliminate today. Just want to get us across the finish line.

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yep I do. I think that it's really easy to push for him to be eliminated regardless of his alignment.

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and I'm not voting him because I think he's scum, but because I can't case anyone else and I think he's our easiest path to voting someone out today.

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we vote someone out because a) math and 2) we learn stuff from it. let's vote someone out. let's learn from it.

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Unofficial vote count:

HyruleHitman7 (3) - Hellhound1, Redados, biancospino
Elmo TeH AzN (1) - Baron Kirkholm Uttgart
Redados (2) - Brickwalll, chazary
Baron Kirkholm Uttgart (1) - CCGeek
Hellhound1 (1) - HyruleHitman7

Not Voting - Elmo TeH AzN

Unofficial vote count representing Chazary's FOS:

HyruleHitman7 (3+1) - Hellhound1, Redados, biancospino, (chazary)
Elmo TeH AzN (1) - Baron Kirkholm Uttgart
Redados (1) - Brickwalll
Baron Kirkholm Uttgart (1) - CCGeek
Hellhound1 (1) - HyruleHitman7

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Unofficial vote count:

HyruleHitman7 (3) - Hellhound1, Redados, biancospino
Elmo TeH AzN (1) - Baron Kirkholm Uttgart
Redados (2) - Brickwalll, chazary
Baron Kirkholm Uttgart (1) - CCGeek
Hellhound1 (1) - HyruleHitman7

Not Voting - Elmo TeH AzN

Unofficial vote count representing Chazary's FOS:

HyruleHitman7 (3+1) - Hellhound1, Redados, biancospino, (chazary)
Elmo TeH AzN (1) - Baron Kirkholm Uttgart
Redados (1) - Brickwalll
Baron Kirkholm Uttgart (1) - CCGeek
Hellhound1 (1) - HyruleHitman7

My thoughts on this:

Baron really needs to get more focused with his vote because this Elmo vote gets worse and worse for town the longer he leaves it there
Going by true vote count, the counter wagon to Hyrule is me. Obviously I choose to vote out Hyrule over me.
Going by the vote count inside of chazary's heart, we are super split across many people. Obviously this starts with Baron re-voting. Hyrule voting elsewhere is sound. I think that speaks to his town points that he's not voting me, even though I'm the counter wagon. Kind of torn here. Instinctually wanting to vote Hellhound now but that feels emotional rather than logical.

I don't think Hyrule can be scum with Hellhound. I think Hyrule would be scum with Baron or Elmo, based on the above.

[Redados]

@Hyrule, in the interest of displaying what you're feeling, please cast a vote (or if you really don't want to, at least a FOS, thou such reluctance would merit some explanation)

I wanted to be careful with my vote. Now I realize it's better to try to keep things moving, and avoid complacency. There aren't any people that I'm sure are scum, but hellhound is, as I've mentioned, at the top of my list. So naturally, I'm pretty sure it's him before anyone else. So that's who I'm going to place my vote on. It's not because he voted me. Of course I know it looks this way, but to me logic dictates that I vote who ever I feel is scummiest.

VOTE: Hellhound1

can you case hellhound please

[Redados]

kinda sus that the mod only posts the official vote count and not the vote count inside of chazary's heart.

[Redados]

hmm.

[Redados]

I’m leaving my vote where it is

[Redados]

@Redados, would you consider a lim on CCGeek?

I would

[Redados]

and I'm not voting him because I think he's scum, but because I can't case anyone else and I think he's our easiest path to voting someone out today.

Do you have no other suspicions? Seems counter-intuitive that you are willing to vote out someone you don't think is scum. Why not roll the dice on someone else and potentially lim scum today?

I think we’re going to get a lim today so I’m starting to feel more comfortable and less antsy.

[Redados]

I was very amped up there for a bit

[Redados]

Amped up is the wrong word. Frazzled? Stressed.

[Redados]

I’m town

[Redados]

You’re overthinking it.

[Redados]

I felt this whole paragraph to be not of much value. It is quite straight forward what you say with a lot of assumptions in between. You also managed a little self-promotion with '

i.m obviously very chatty

. This, along with your omelette breaking comment, is starting to raise some flags imo.

Ouch. But, you do know how to make an omelette, right? You do need to break eggs. As for how that analogy relates to this game, well, that's obvious. Not everyone here is going to make it out of this with their heads resting firmly on their shoulders as they do now. Either the Mafia gets you or you're voted off, either way, a big component of this game is who gets the axe. Also, I don't really care if you think my paragraph is of any value, as this would depend entirely upon your standards of what constitutes as valuable. Since you are a stranger on the internet to me, I have no idea (yet) of what you hold as valuable or invaluable. For clarity's sake, where did you find some of my assumptions? I might be able to clear up some of the confusion I've created. As for my comment about myself being chatty, do you find it false? Redados was chatty, and you took the time to respond to several posts in order to catch up, and are chatty as well. I was really just stating the obvious.

Besides, what kind of egotistical idiot would I have to be in order to actually believe that saying the equivalent of, "GUYS I'M SUPER INNOCENT AND NOT SCUM" would help garner any trust or alleviate any legitimate accusations?

The answer is just a slightly more moronic version of myself as I am right now. Lastly, I'd like to state that I appreciate your input, as keeping each other in check by questioning our statements is a key component of all of this. I'm glad you highlighted where any misconceptions lay within my posts, and poked a few holes in it.

I am super innocent and not scum.

Bolder for emphasis

[Redados]

I’ve asked 2 questions which you haven’t answered:

Why are you so stressed?

What are your thoughts on post 310, particularly the last paragraph?

I was stressed when we had little activity, few productive votes, and the Elmo situation, and I didn’t think we would get an elimination off today. I’ve calmed down.

[Redados]

I’ve asked 2 questions which you haven’t answered:

Why are you so stressed?

What are your thoughts on post 310, particularly the last paragraph?

Confused on what you mean by what are my thoughts? I deny the accusation. I am town.

[Redados]

Which is why I said what I said in post 11

[Redados]

Which is why I said what I said in post 11

This should say 311 not 11 oops

[Redados]

I’ll take that ambiguous comment on board and UNVOTE:

But, I don’t feel like voting for anyone else just yet.

Please vote for someone

[Redados]

I want to clarify that by "moving" a vote I meant toward someone. That's not the result I wanted

Baron, by moving your vote from Elmo to unvote, you have done nothing. Your vote on Elmo was doing nothing, and your lack of a vote doubly so.

[Redados]

Baron, if you’re town, let me give you the following scenario:
Hypothetically, let’s assume that Elmo is town. That leaves seven people who are currently voting: 5 town 2 scum. We would have to vote perfectly in order to vote out scum.

Scum is voting right now! If you’re town, we really need your vote.

[Redados]

The main reason is that the vote that I would probably give if I didn’t know what others were voting would be to CC.

But they have no votes, so my vote would do nothing. None of the three with votes for them seem worthy of going to E-1, E-2 or E-2 respectively.

I would be interested to know if you think voting for CC has any point at this stage.

VOTE: CCGeek

[Redados]

VOTE FOR SOMEONE

[Redados]

I will move my vote to CCG as soon as there will be some indication that someone else is willing to go with that wagon.

Brick sounded like he was up for it

[Redados]

Post 302 was unprompted, I was about to board a five hour flight and wanted to get my thoughts in before getting cut off. But then I bought wifi so it ended up being unnecessary.

[Redados]

Ops, in post #338 I obviously meant "the quoted part of post #290", not #289

I followed from context, but thanks for clarifying

[Redados]

Biancospino, can you walk me through why you’re waiting for affirmation from brick to move your vote?

[Redados]

I suggest that you vote where you want yo and if the support follows, it follows. You can always change your vote

[Redados]

I would also like to pick hellhound’s brain about the new vote count

[Redados]

Could Hyrule and CCG be a scum pair

[Redados]

I’m scumreading CCG more than Hyrule.

[Redados]

I’m satisfied for now in respect of Red but certainly not closing my case going into D2.

For the purpose of moving us forward I am for all intents and purposes voting for CCGeek, putting him at E-1.

Just not sure if I should move my vote now or wait until we know if we have a hammer?

I think you should put CCG at E-1 and then we see if anyone declare hammer. I would also love to hear CCG’s thoughts on the wagon.

[Redados]

But for Alianna stating a replacement is being sought, I would have put CCG at E-1.

Still 3 days and 4 hours until dusk is upon us. Let’s give the replacement a day or two.

I’m good with this

[Redados]

So, I read (well, heavily skimmed frankly) some past games of Elmo as both alignments, including a pretty recent one.

I appreciate this even if it is inconclusive. I don’t see why scum would feel the need/take the time to metaread someone, especially someone they’re not actively casing and trying to frame.

Just to offer a different perspective, I’ve seen both town and scum do this, and I’ve done it as both scum and town. It’s not alignment-indicative.

I’m TRing Biancospino regardless. I think it’s cool that he read some games, although it would have been much more valuable to not read the games of someone about to not be part of the game

[Redados]

I'll be reading up on this tomorrow

Welcome! After you’ve caught up we can all pick someone to vote off the island.

[Redados]

I will spend the next 24 hours dutifully reading BlueBloodedToffee games in order to find out his “meta”
/s

[Redados]

Just to offer a different perspective, I’ve seen both town and scum do this, and I’ve done it as both scum and town. It’s not alignment-indicative.

Can you provide some more insight on that? Is there a difference that you’ve noticed between scum meta reading and town meta reading? Like who the target is, what kind of things they point out, etc

I can speak to my experiences and motivations. Town!me and scum!me read other players’ games for the same reason - I do it when I feel like I’m not contributing enough to the game. It’s an actionable, finite, and (sometimes but not always) fun action that makes me feel like I *did* something. It’s also something you can show to others - “I did that”.

Ultimately I feel like it does very little in helping to solve the current game. Every game is different. There can be value in seeing what someone’s scum range looks like, but it has vastly diminishing returns.

If you feel like re-reading a game, the most valuable game you can re-read is the current one that you’re playing, in my opinion. Especially after some role cards flip and you get new perspective.

[Redados]

Just to offer a different perspective, I’ve seen both town and scum do this, and I’ve done it as both scum and town. It’s not alignment-indicative.

Can you provide some more insight on that? Is there a difference that you’ve noticed between scum meta reading and town meta reading? Like who the target is, what kind of things they point out, etc

I could also care to guess that BlueBloodedToffee would have a robust opinion on this as well.

[Redados]

I still don't particularly understand why you chose to vote a null player over somebody who you thought could be scum either. Like, if you thought HH was scum then vote him and start applying pressure there? Instead of a random null slot that is already gaining attention. You know?

Hahaha this made me laugh. I cannot wait until you get to post 287.

[Redados]

BlueBloodedToffee how do you read me?

[Redados]

I agree we need patience, especially as we see this new replacement. I’m not unvoting, but I think it’s important that we see both a good amount of ‘data’ out of new Hyrule, as well as claims and explanations out of CC before hammering.

I haven’t seen an extension from the mod, and we shouldn’t cut it too close. We should hammer by 8-12 hours until deadline?

That cuts it too close for my comfort zone, but ideally I’d like to give the HH slot as much time as possible

[Redados]

What does SE mean?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... xperienced

[Redados]

CCG just hit the prod deadline so not sure how active he is.

[Redados]

CCG just hit the prod deadline so not sure how active he is.

He didn't, he still has 3 more hours.

Sorry you’re right, I can’t count

[Redados]

Redados has over a hundred posts but none of it pertains to his vote on CCG. It's all fluff
This makes it feel like he's voting CCG for the sake of wagoning him, not because he has a genuine scrumread.
VOTE: Redados

Yeah that’s fair. I just want to eliminate someone, and I’m good with eliminating CCG.

[Redados]

I hope that doesn’t come as a surprise if you read all one hundred of my posts

[Redados]

If we’re not careful, we’ll get a no-lim, which I would really hate.

[Redados]

Spoiler:

When I wake up I’ll be hammering +/- 10 hours. Don’t think HHs replacement will be able to squeeze a read into 12 hours, and not one that is going to sway me at this late hour.

Do not hammer CCG. He has much to say and we should give him time to say it.

We are running out of time. He said 36 hours ago that he would be back in 16 hours. If he’s inactive then there’s no point in waiting more than maybe 12 more hours, max.

[Redados]

If I’m using my glossary knowledge correctly, it could be worth just going for a Policy vote on CC.

Why

[Redados]

Hopefully this prod just straight up works and he comes back and talks

[Redados]

Just to confirm, I would prefer a Redados lim over a CC lim, but if we can’t get Red over the line I will settle with CC.

Are there any more takers for a Red lim?

@Toffee, unfortunately don’t have time rn to summarise my argument on Red but it’s from roughly page 13/14 onwards.

I will expand my reads into D2.

But in short, Red has coasted the game. A lot of posts but not much content. His response to my answers are still not answered and he thinks “I’m town” is a sufficient response. He also openly admits in post 287 that he will vote your slot out despite him thinking it isn’t scum and he was unwilling to case anyone else with 3 real world days left until D1 ended. It’s not laziest because he is super active, just comes across as super scummy imo.

CCGeek is flip flopping an uncommitted. I have said before I think he is a disinterested townie or lurking scum. Hard to call as he is so inactive and so intermittent it leans towards scum trying to go under the radar.

That is the short answer to my two top reads. Appreciate its not the best as doing it from my phone in between meetings.

Yep, I’m coasting. Yep, I didn’t want to case anyone. Don’t vote for me.

[Redados]

Who do you want to vote out today CCGeek? Hellhound?

[Redados]

In terms of self-preservation, CCGeek has every motivation to make a push on me, right? Because that’s his best chance to not get voted out? And he’s not. That reads as town to me.

This would also support us being a scumpair, but I know my alignment, so I can rule that out.

UNVOTE:

If everyone could be on or say their availability to be on so we can avoid a no-lim, that would be great. I have to wake up in six and a half hours or so, so I’ll be on then.

VOTE: Hellhound

[Redados]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Chazary

Setting an alarm for four and a half hours from now at which I will wake up and check the thread

[Redados]

Can anyone talk to me about Chazary and Hellhound?

I probably want to vote out one of these today...

Dude we had an existing hellhound wagon going…

[Redados]

CCG should be the lim. BBT is leading town to no-lim or a mis-lim. I think chazary is likely a PR based on their response to the pressure (saying town but not saying VT/PR unless ive missed something), and they absolutely should claim their role, but CCG reeks of scum.

Can we

never

PR hunt?

[Redados]

I re-read the game during the night and I was null on cactus. Confused on why he was the night kill, maybe the mafia was PR hunting? I thought that a lot of the town saw Hyrule/Cactus and CCGeek as a possible scumpair. That’s confusing to me.

[Redados]

Town - hellhound, brickwall, biancospino, baron
Null - Hyrule/Cactus, BlueBloodedToffee
Scum - Chazary

VOTE: Chazary

[Redados]

That’s E-2

[Redados]

I’m glad CCGeek got limmed because I would have townbinned them the whole game geez

[Redados]

Interesting (to me) statistics from the first 75 Newbie games played in this setup:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=83092&p=11834049&hi ... #p11834049

Relevant stat is under Day 1 stats - a member of the scum team was eliminated on day one fifteen times. In those fifteen games, scum only one once. The game is monstrously favored towards town at this point.

That post is old, and there have been over 150 newbie games completed since then. My first newbie game, which was after the first 75, had scum killed on the first day. However, scum still won that game. Very frustrating. So we can’t take a town win for granted at this point

[Redados]

What made you town read them?

That under pressure they didn’t play for self-preservation and jump on the leading counterwagon (me)

[Redados]

I was wrong and I’m very glad you have been proven wrong

[Redados]

Post 560 should say 150 games total, not “since then”

[Redados]

I was wrong and I’m very glad you have been proven wrong

What does this mean?

I’m very glad *to* have been proven wrong

My apologies I’m on my phone

[Redados]

I can't stick around for much time right now, I'm probably going in 30' or so. Now, I don't think there's too much problem in putting Chez at E-1, since if he's town the other scum cannot quickhammer or we discover who they are and win tomorrow. So, I think I'm going to vote Chaz; if anyone disagrees please tell me so in the next half hour

Scum could quickhammer on town!chazary, but since we would policy vote them Day three, I think that would be a really weak play on their part.

[Redados]

Post 391 is one of the only reasons BBT is null for me and not scum. The whole counterwagon off of CCGeek looks awful, especially as a reversal.

At what pace were you catching up, BBT?

[Redados]

Interesting (to me) statistics from the first 75 Newbie games played in this setup:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=83092&p=11834049&hi ... #p11834049

Relevant stat is under Day 1 stats - a member of the scum team was eliminated on day one fifteen times. In those fifteen games, scum only one once. The game is monstrously favored towards town at this point.

That post is old, and there have been over 150 newbie games completed since then. My first newbie game, which was after the first 75, had scum killed on the first day. However, scum still won that game. Very frustrating. So we can’t take a town win for granted at this point

This is important to understand why scum might not necessarily try to distance on D1. Because it’s *really* important for scum to survive on day one, it shapes the game hugely

[Redados]

I apologize, I’m making too many mistakes this morning. Post 393

[Redados]

Scum has a private chat and they can use it during the day and night. CCGeek can’t post in it anymore though after dying.

[Redados]

There is no 'proof' in that post.

What I am saying is that if I were scum with CCGeek, he simply could have posted in the scum thread about Elmo being V/LA and what it meant etc. There would be no need to post it in the game thread.

Could he have been looking for newb cred?

I thought it was sketch that Cactus asked what an SE was in the same post that he used the IIoA acronym

[Redados]

There is no 'proof' in that post.

What I am saying is that if I were scum with CCGeek, he simply could have posted in the scum thread about Elmo being V/LA and what it meant etc. There would be no need to post it in the game thread.

Conversation starter. Easy way to look active without risking attention on you.

Yeah this makes more sense than that I said

[Redados]

I should be town read because my play has been quite obviously pro town.

Well I hate that logic

[Redados]

Scum can very easily do something pro-town and town can very easily do something anti-town.

I agree that your play has been Pro-town.

[Redados]

Yeah I was not doing anything intentionally. I was really struggling with my day one reads, but I hoped it would be scarier to scum if I was being more mysterious as opposed to that I really didn’t know what I was doing.

I find it much easier to form reads after people have flipped. I need to work on being a better day one player.

[Redados]

put your vote somewhere where it does something

Why chazary though? I'd imagine the idea was to gather a reaction, but now that one was given I'm not so sure keeping the pressure on would really do any good. Are you actually reading him anti-town?

Biancospino when I was reading the game, I saw that I never responded to this post. I apologize as I must have missed it.

[Redados]

You're right.

Part of the reason I thought you could be scum was because it felt like you were intentionally playing scummy to fall under the 'too scummy to be scum' bracket.

But I feel like I have been so very obviously town that it really shouldn't even be a question.

How do you read me right now Mr Toffee?

[Redados]

I think I solved the game but I need to think about it.

[Redados]

I misread a post never mind

[Redados]

You're right.

Part of the reason I thought you could be scum was because it felt like you were intentionally playing scummy to fall under the 'too scummy to be scum' bracket.

But I feel like I have been so very obviously town that it really shouldn't even be a question.

How do you read me right now Mr Toffee?

This is the second time you’ve asked someone this question. Why do you need to know how you are being read? For me it feels wholly irrelevant to ask this question from a town perspective.

I’m vain and curious

[Redados]

You're right.

Part of the reason I thought you could be scum was because it felt like you were intentionally playing scummy to fall under the 'too scummy to be scum' bracket.

But I feel like I have been so very obviously town that it really shouldn't even be a question.

How do you read me right now Mr Toffee?

This is the second time you’ve asked someone this question. Why do you need to know how you are being read? For me it feels wholly irrelevant to ask this question from a town perspective.

I’m vain and curious

Also, the other time I asked this question I *also* asked Toffee, and I don’t remember him answering.

If I ask him to tell me a read, then later we can use how that read developed as a piece of data.

[Redados]

Speaking of Red, I just realized that #73 is a bit weird:

I skimmed over the posts so far and no comments on the Elmo BW, except the fact that he will be on T/LA till tomorrow (post #5).
[...]

Thanks for pointing out that Elmo is V/LA, I didn’t notice that. UNVOTE:

Specifically I find a wee hard to believe that Red didn't care to check why CCG had asked the meaning of V/LA in the first place before answering to that in #15:

Second time ever playing a forum mafia game so: what is v/la? :think:

The answer is in here: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... reviations

It’s a good resource regardless

RH went back and edited that post to say that Elmo was V/LA. I hadn’t even thought to check for that, as I had already read that post.

I like Brickwall’s theory that CCGeek only knew to go back and check that because Elmo/Toffee was the scum partner.

[Redados]

Hellhound and Bianco are town for their CCG pushes and no intent to move when another possibility opened up. These are pretty much locked for me.
Brickwall's posting has looked townie for pretty much the entire game. Not quite as lock-town as the above two, but pretty strong.
I was unsure on Baron, but I think his push on me Today looks like a genuine attempt from a townie looking at possible partners for CCG.
That leaves Chazary and Red. As stated, I believe the Cactus kill makes 0 sense from Chazary and I feel like I can rule him out on that alone.

Game solved.

I agree with your POE up until the Chazary part, which I’ll need to think about some more. But of course I know my role card and I would include you in the process as well.

[Redados]

Alright, a couple of things I want to look at.

VOTE: CCGeek

VOTE: CCGeek

hate between fellow Pokemon fans is unjustified D:

it’s justified

These early interactions could very easily be s/s. A way to ease both of them into the game by communicating with each other and not having to interact with town straight away.

Why are we saying to get things started? I already got things started

At this point, Red's push looks too forced. I think this is a plan from the get-go, Red to hard push CCG and then back off later in the Day when the opportunity arises. Red could be faking conviction in the read to get the game out of RVS, that's absolutely a possibility, but I'm leaning towards a s/s plan here with Red looking to gain maximum credit should a CCG wagon ever go through. The reason I don't think this is fake conviction to get the thread out of RVS is because Red stays committed to this read for way longer than needed without any real evidence to ever back it up. It's distancing.

Second time ever playing a forum mafia game so: what is v/la? :think:

The answer is in here: https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?ti ... reviations

got it, ty for help!

Why are we saying to get things started? I already got things started

tbh true, BUT the discussion hasn't really warmed up. THEREFORE, to (hopefully) get the ball rolling better, VOTE: chazary

I mean, things have definitely gotten started and warmed up. There are plenty of things to talk about. For example:
1) I haven’t unvoted you
2) I have two votes on me
3) many people have posted but haven’t really posted yet.
4) everything you say is unrelated to each other and you keep pulling the conversation in different directions

How do those things make you feel?

Same again, look at the amount of interactions between the two and this is just the first page. CCG's posting in response to Red is, again, extremely relaxed and he doesn't once question Red's motivation behind this hard push on a page one read. Red is gunning for CCG and CCG doesn't have a care in the world, why?

Red's response to CCG again gives him a route into the game and plenty to talk about without interacting with town.

Could Hyrule and CCG be a scum pair

I’m scumreading CCG more than Hyrule.

I think you should put CCG at E-1 and then we see if anyone declare hammer.

I would also love to hear CCG’s thoughts on the wagon

.

These posts gave me some pause because it looks like some alternatives to CCG may be possible but Red, again, is hard pushing CCG. The biggest problem is that this read has come from nowhere on Page 1 and has remained throughout the entirety of D1 with nothing to back it up.

I also think the bolded is Red leaving space to leave the CCG wagon after he has 'analysed' it. There is a CCG post that ties in nicely with this too;

unfort I really have a shortage of time rn... I might even ask for a sub d2 onwards

I think this is significant. I think CCG will have posted in scum thread, way before public thread, that he was unsure if he had time for the game. If that is the case, it would be a green light for Red to push him as hard as possible and gain the maximum amount of credit from the flip.

Redados has over a hundred posts but none of it pertains to his vote on CCG. It's all fluff
This makes it feel like he's voting CCG for the sake of wagoning him, not because he has a genuine scrumread.
VOTE: Redados

Cactus, the N1 kill, was suspicious of Red... something to keep in mind.

Redados has over a hundred posts but none of it pertains to his vote on CCG. It's all fluff
This makes it feel like he's voting CCG for the sake of wagoning him, not because he has a genuine scrumread.
VOTE: Redados

Yeah that’s fair. I just want to eliminate someone, and I’m good with eliminating CCG.

Red almost negates his entire read here. He is basically saying that he has no reasons for limming CCG, he wants to elim anyone. Given the severity of his push/read on CCG this post makes very little sense with the rest of his D1 play around the CCG slot.

In terms of self-preservation, CCGeek has every motivation to make a push on me, right? Because that’s his best chance to not get voted out? And he’s not. That reads as town to me.

This would also support us being a scumpair, but I know my alignment

, so I can rule that out.

UNVOTE:

There is the opportunity to jump off. At a pivotal point of the game, too. CCG doesn't push on Red, even as a self-pres, because he is scum with him. Red uses this as an opportunity to town read CCG and jump ship after scum reading him for 20 pages or whatever it was.

The bolded fits in very nicely with my 'too scummy to be scum' theory that I had about Red, too.

No. I lightly skimmed chazary's ISO yesterday and noticed some of his posts today.
I don't agree with Chazary's reasoning in post #501. However, they had a strong opening post(#66) and consistently relevant input. My vote would remain on Redados.

Cactus town read Chazary, it makes 0 sense for Chazary to kill Cactus.

It makes more than enough sense for Red to kill Cactus though. Red's questioning regarding my read on him also makes me think he is scum who is simply looking to kill off the people who scum read him and because I hadn't really stated a read on him he was unsure of how to approach me.

I re-read the game during the night and I was null on cactus. Confused on why he was the night kill, maybe the mafia was PR hunting? I thought that a lot of the town saw Hyrule/Cactus and CCGeek as a possible scumpair. That’s confusing to me.

This is classic scum as well - I have no idea why that kill was done. Completely baffling. /sarcasm

I’m going to be on my phone for this entire day phase unfortunately, so I can’t chop up this quote and respond point by point/make it pretty.

The RVS stuff I feel like you’re overthinking.

I do remember not unvoting him because I wasn’t happy with his responses - couldn’t really put why into words so I chose to not say anything instead.

I don’t remember it I was giving myself space to leave the wagon, I *felt* like my play was fluid and spontaneous and I was leaning into that

Several people voted for me/pushed on me. Obviously every game is different, but I would not have nightkilled cactus. I typed out why, but I feel like I would be coaching scum and wouldn’t help the town.

[Redados]

Also on the Chazary idea, it’s not unlikely that chazary chose to kill cactus knowing that it would make more sense if red had. Which seems to be working out for them if that was the case. A strange kill either way.

I think that might be overthinking it.

[Redados]

I went back and read Cactus’ push on me and it makes me feel like BBT is really stretching that to make his point

[Redados]

Here is Cactus’ big spooky push on me that allegedly caused me to NK him:

Redados has over a hundred posts but none of it pertains to his vote on CCG. It's all fluff
This makes it feel like he's voting CCG for the sake of wagoning him, not because he has a genuine scrumread.
VOTE: Redados

For curiosity's sake, I presume you would have voted Chaz?

No. I lightly skimmed chazary's ISO yesterday and noticed some of his posts today.
I don't agree with Chazary's reasoning in post #501. However, they had a strong opening post(#66) and consistently relevant input. My vote would remain on Redados.

[Redados]

And post 434 implies a scum!Redados pushing on a town!CCGeek too

[Redados]

Toffee’s post 610 is so much grasping at straws.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

[Redados]

Toffee’s post 610 is so much grasping at straws.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: BlueBloodedToffee

I called you scum, so I'm scum? That's the gist of it, yeah?

OMGUS

[Redados]

It’s a developing read

[Redados]

I highlighted those posts from Cactus in my post, not sure why you felt the need to highlight them again.

I simply made reference to the fact that of all the people who would kill Cactus, which we all agree was a super strange kill, you had motive to do so. That was nowhere near the bulk of my case though so it's fascinating that you have chosen to go into detail on that specific point, admittedly, the weakest point of my argument for Scum!Red.

434 does imply that, you're right. Doesn't negate the fact that Cactus was suspicious of you; could he have changed his mind at start of D2 upon the CCGeek flip? Sure, but the motive for you is there.

Yeah not sure what I was thinking except maybe to show that it was the *whole* push and not just a selection.

I think I addressed all your points but lmk if I missed one

Cactus was suspicious of me but my point of posting his whole push is that he was very mildly suspicious and not in a very scary way.

[Redados]

It feels like you're trying to replicate CCGeek's relaxed posting style to appease me.

I am quite jet lagged and running on not a lot of sleep and I don’t have the energy to do anything but post my thoughts as they are.

[Redados]

I think Brickwall voted for me? Let me check

[Redados]

And there does not appear to ever have been a change of mind on the subject. So, @CCGeek, for clarity, are you voting for Hyrule just to put pressure on or do you actually think that he's the most valid candidate for today's lim (which, btw, I wouldn't necessarily disagree on, as evidenced by the fact i still haven't retracted my finger)?

Yeah, you are right. After posting my "revolutionary" breakthrough on CCGeek I read his posts in isolation and realised my argument was flawed. However, the post was out there so rather than retract I thought I would leave him to defend it. The argument might be flawed but he could still be scum and buckle under the pressure. Not to be, thought it was a sound response.

As I have said before, we are LOW on information, we have 2 players who have barely interacted with us, with pressure on them.

What do you think about Redados, if you read his posts in isolation does it strike like meaningful content is being contributed in the scum hunt, or does it look short posts and some fluff posts in between?

VOTE: Redados

Here

[Redados]

I’m town I’m not scum I didn’t nightkill anyone

[Redados]

hello, game. I wasn't able to keep up w/ the recent influx of posts, kind of swamped IRL, will catch up in time and share my thoughts. But from what I've gotten from skimming, tho, HH spoke up and shared reads due to pressure on him, with a plausible explanation for his previous behaviour. And suspects hh. Elmo still hasn't posted. Red makes a bigbrain play to root himself and Brickwall in the towncore permanently. Did I miss anything?

Why didn't you question CCGeek for town binning you when you said yourself that you had done nothing to earn it?

Your read progression on CCGeek makes very little sense and the interactions between the two of you are sketchy at best.

I still haven't read through CCGeek's ISO since his flip so that's my next job.

When did he townbin me? Honestly help me out

I was widely townread for the first few IRL days of the game

[Redados]

Your playstyle for D2 has completely changed from D1 as well. It's literally the polar opposite.

D1 you spent a lot of time being purposefully antagonistic/scummy and now you've gone to the opposite end are playing the townier than thou card.

Wasn’t doing anything on purpose just playing how I want to play

[Redados]

Your playstyle for D2 has completely changed from D1 as well. It's literally the polar opposite.

D1 you spent a lot of time being purposefully antagonistic/scummy and now you've gone to the opposite end are playing the townier than thou card.

Sometimes it makes me feel emotional when I am voted or scumread.

[Redados]

When did he townbin me? Honestly help me out

I was widely townread for the first few IRL days of the game

In the very post I quoted. He says 'Red makes a bigbrain play to root himself and Brickwall in the towncore permanently.' You said you had made no big brain play, but did not question this read further.

Sometimes it makes me feel emotional when I am voted or scumread.

I don't believe this and your play isn't emotionally charged (at least it doesn't feel that way)

There is definitely a significant shift in the way you are playing this game between D1 and D2.

He said what you quoted, which didn’t accurately describe what had happened. And he said he got that from skimming. I made the clarification, assumed that when he actually read and not skimmed he would see that he was wrong, and then promptly forgot about it/didn’t return to it.

I’ll say again that I don’t think I feel a difference between my d1 and d2 play. Except for I do have more reads etc and I’m sharing them.

[Redados]

Aggro/too scummy to be scum posts from Red:

Why are we saying to get things started? I already got things started

Aggressive

I have refrained from referring to myself as town thus far, as instantly labelling myself as such when there is little reason to suspect otherwise is incredibly suspicious, but I did find such a label on myself necessary in order to explain my line of thinking.

I am town.

Purposefully antagonistic

Besides, what kind of egotistical idiot would I have to be in order to actually believe that saying the equivalent of, "GUYS I'M SUPER INNOCENT AND NOT SCUM" would help garner any trust or alleviate any legitimate accusations?

I am super innocent and not scum.

Same again.

It was me who hopped on the Elmo bandwagon and it is also me who is hopping on the Spartan bandwagon:
VOTE: Spartan

Openly pointing out how scummy he is being by hopping wagon to wagon.

good vote I like it

Encourages people voting him.

yep yep good vote

Twice

if you guys are looking for other stuff to spot re: my play, I've been "defending" hyrule, but have kept my vote on him.

Evaluates his own play and picks out an inconsistency before someone else can do it. Showing how scummy he is playing but being pretty brazen about it.

I am voting him because I want to eliminate him. like I already said, I don't plan to case anyone else today. I don't feel very strongly about who we eliminate today. Just want to get us across the finish line.

Again, scummy. Don't care who we elim, just want somebody.

and I'm not voting him because I think he's scum, but because I can't case anyone else and I think he's our easiest path to voting someone out today.

Same again.

I’m town

This was in response to Brickwall trying to apply some pressure to him.

Besides, what kind of egotistical idiot would I have to be in order to actually believe that saying the equivalent of, "GUYS I'M SUPER INNOCENT AND NOT SCUM" would help garner any trust or alleviate any legitimate accusations?

I am super innocent and not scum.

Bolder for emphasis

Same again.

All of this play fits into the 'too scummy to be scum' bracket and he has completely 180'd into a LAMIST style for D2. I don't understand why that shift has happened.

Post 20 was trying to move people out of RVS. During games, RVS will start, semi-interesting things will happen, then someone will pop in and pretend like we’re still at the beginning of RVS. I was trying to move the game forward

Post 49 - I apologize if I came off as antagonistic, I was trying to be funny. Same with Post 74

Post 90 - wagon hopping, especially on day 1, especially that early in the game, isn’t scummy. That’s literally the optimal pace of day 1. I feel like you’re being misrepresentative here.

Post 224/231 - feeling defensive cause I was getting voted. Also Brickwall’s vote looked super town, which I pointed out in the moment.

Post 234 - I was feeling defensive

Post 284/287 - I didn’t have good reads, and I think that you know that this is inherently less scummy on d1 while unacceptable on later days

Post 311 - this is just something I say, please don’t get too hung up on it. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again in the future

Post 314 - this was also just me trying to be funny although someone else pointed out that it was mean, and I apologize for that.

[Redados]

Where tf is Chazary

[Redados]

Yes

[Redados]

Alright, well I have said what I needed to say.

I'm reasonably happy to be the lim today as long as town goes through with Red on D3.

anecdotal but this attitude loses town games

[Redados]

@BBT - I was applying pressure to your slot. Trying to put a case together and get you to answer some questions. Your slot was relatively quiet for D1 so wanted to apply some pressure to your slot. Happy to go more in-depth once I am on the laptop.

@Bianco - I know the question wasn’t directed at me but I think I am town jokes. I do think Hellhound personally. I am not a PR but was I the cop I reckon I would have investigated Chazary or Redados last night.

Waiting for Chazary before putting my vote elsewhere. Want to hear from them.

For anyone else, and for you in the future, don’t claim “not a PR” unless under hammer. It helps scum narrow down who is a PR.

[Redados]

I’m leaving my vote where it is.

[Redados]

I would like to hear from Chazary

[Redados]

So anyway BlueBloodedToffee, how do you read me?

[Redados]

(that was a joke)

[Redados]

prodge

[Redados]

(that was also a joke)

[Redados]

UNVOTE:

[Redados]

VOTE: Chazary

They made it online but failed to post in D2.

Scum would want to vote off an inactive, widely scumread town!Chazary here.

We have enough time in the day left for Chazary to post, or for the process to play out if he doesn’t post. Let’s let that process play out.

[Redados]

And, while I do not disagree with post #697, didn't you immediately wagon Chez just at the beginning of D2? It may a bit hypocritical for me to note that since I was the one to put them at E-1, but you specifically did not discourage me to do it

When we were at that point in the game, Chazary had not been inactive for so long. Very different dynamic

[Redados]

UNVOTE:

HH is limbait

This post is making me doubt that Red can plausibly be scum, they were the first to actually go and say that HH was likely not scum, while he began to come under fire. I don't really see a reason for Red!scum to do that at that time.

However, @Red really needs to answer to some shady stuff. You were asked what was the post you read that made you think you solved the game, but did not answer. For that matter, you yourself noted that you din't answer to a question I made you mid day 1 about Chaz, but still you gave no answer. Why is it that you don't answer questions?
I rekon your playstyle was always rather jovial and spontaneous, but why did you noticeably crank the jokester factor come D2 as some accuses were headed your way? It may sound a silly complaint, but I couldn't fail to notice that you used a bunch of smiley in a string of posts, which I don't think you ever did before, and started straight out saying things "as a joke", and once in response to an accusation. Why is that?

Also, the questions I've asked a couple days ago were intended to aid an idea I had to solve the game, but I need to see what hh says and I also need to see that Chaz comes back. The problem is I can't actually explain what the idea is in full detail without revealing something, but I'll attempt to explain myself in the best way I can without revealing too much once hh returns (unless I realise that there's something wrong with my idea, which may very well be)

I didn’t go back and answer your question on day one, because you used anti-town and scum interchangeably in the question, and I felt it would be condescending to explain that to you this late in the game where you’ve already deduced and now understand that those are two different concepts. Would be happy to go into it if you would like me to, but I think you get it.

That goofy stuff correlates with how much fun I’m having, and it makes me have more fun now that we eliminated scum on Day One.

[Redados]

Except, I'll still like to know what post you saw that made you think you solved the game, for curiosity's sake

please drop it