Large Normal 246: Game Over

[TimmerRC]

Hieeee...

VOTE: Black since you are the only player I know

[TimmerRC]

And I think most of my posts say something

Well, the one where you said bloop says... bloop, so I guess you are right.

[TimmerRC]

VT

I understand why people claim miller early on, but why throw out a VT claim on page 1? I'm coming to this site mostly from a background where claiming was against the rules, so I would love to hear how claiming this helps the town.

[TimmerRC]

I think Hu Tao was just joking with the VT claim

Oh... it's early here, lol. Just got my kiddo off to school, coffee hasnt done its thing yet. My joke-dar may not be up yet.

[TimmerRC]

It's been awhile, remind me why voting millers is the best option?

[TimmerRC]

I'm fully aware Keyleth not voting here means nothing

How does this relate to,

Keyleth's logbook entry 5446: They're onto me. Act natural add more emojis.

Quote has no relevance

Does anyone else think it's scum indicating when someone isn't voting?

/following

[TimmerRC]

Think Elements in 46

(or 45, fucking 0 index arrays on post number but 1 indexed in quote tags for some reason? Thanks BBCode)

is saying the inner quote in 28 has no relevance so it was snipped. Then asking does anyone else think it's scum-indicative when someone isn't voting

Elements doesn't assert it's scum-indicative, just asks

They keep posting so I'm sure they can answer this themselves, though.

[TimmerRC]

The aim of 46 was to get Keyleth to vote someone
The quote was relevant
The "quote is not relevant" was to distance from the quoted joke so Keyleth could continue with it if desired
I was implying I was of the opinion that people nit voting is scummy
I do not actually think people not voting is scummy

Hopefully this clears up the post enough that we can move on from an unhelpful discussion about why my brain does things

I sorta get it but just to be clear, and to put this to bed. If people not voting during RVS is NOT a scummy thing to you, why did you want to try to get Keyleth to vote someone?

[TimmerRC]

ping

Got any vibe reads so far?

Did I actually say ping at some point,lol?

Not really... I feel like you handled that dissection of your posts quite well... I found Hu Tao's VT claim wonky but that's null until they respond about it. I'm terrible at day 1 so that's what I've got so far.

[TimmerRC]

VT

I understand why people claim miller early on, but why throw out a VT claim on page 1? I'm coming to this site mostly from a background where claiming was against the rules, so I would love to hear how claiming this helps the town.

So scum will not target me and I can last till end game. I believe in myself to find scum as long as I'm alive long enough. Now I just need to be towny enough to not be voted out. I've eliminated half of the work.

Interesting... im not sure I believe that it would make scum not target you, but it's a sufficient answer to the question.

[TimmerRC]

VT

I understand why people claim miller early on, but why throw out a VT claim on page 1? I'm coming to this site mostly from a background where claiming was against the rules, so I would love to hear how claiming this helps the town.

How long have you played Mafia?

Off and on for over 10 years, mostly off lately.

[TimmerRC]

Why pay mind to a VT claim during RvS with 10 years on?

Because most of my mafia career was on sites where roleclaiming was strictly forbidden and would get you modkilled instantly. So this is my second game with claiming allowed and it's... weird. Especially a VT claim so early. If you are a VT, you've helped the mafia target the power roles. If you are lying, you will destroy your credibility later on. I just don't get it.

[TimmerRC]

Because most of my mafia career was on sites where roleclaiming was strictly forbidden and would get you modkilled instantly. So this is my second game with claiming allowed and it's... weird. Especially a VT claim so early. If you are a VT, you've helped the mafia target the power roles. If you are lying, you will destroy your credibility later on. I just don't get it.

I didn't think it was a serious claim tbh.
[/quote]

Hu answered that already by saying that it was a true claim. If it's all a gambit, again how is this helping town?

[TimmerRC]

D'oh. Broken tag.

I'm struggling to follow the convo about someone's "main" but if it has to do with a previous account or something, is it relevant to the game itself? If yes, please explain how, and if not, I'll ignore it.

[TimmerRC]

I'm not fixated, though? I mentioned it once, Hu replied, and I literally moved on. The only reason it is still being talked about is you asking me about it even though the issue was already put to bed.

[TimmerRC]

Meta, getting knowledge about someone's main unlocks meta knowledge.

Ah, well if you guys figure any conclusions from that, lmk. I don't know anyone here well enough to be useful, and frankly some of the best mafia players I've known would periodically mess with their meta quite well.

[TimmerRC]

I"ll join you on that if only because this RVS stuff is weird and I have less reason to be voting Black than Hu.

VOTE: Hu Tao.

[TimmerRC]

Why was roleclaiming forebidden, wtf?????

It was a perfect flip of this style of mafia. All of the roles would be publicly known before the game started, but you could never hint at which you were. It was entirely through game play with zero night action results ever talked about.

[TimmerRC]

I've also been in a lot of games that Random Nurse was in a the start, my RVS vote on him is basically because I knew he wasn't going to show.

VOTE: Celebloki

It feels strange to me that nobody else took issue with this for the same reason I did. Guillotina voted here but not for the same reason.

The issue I have with this post is it reveals that Celebloki wanted a 'safe' RVS vote. Who but scum wants that?

I'd like to hear people thoughts on this. RVS is a new concept for me, does it seem logical to you guys that only a scum would strategize who they vote for early on?

[TimmerRC]

Leaning town on ssbm, will support a Celeb push for now.

[TimmerRC]

Leaning town on ssbm, will support a Celeb push for now.

Are you voting there? If not can you

Im at work in my lab sneaking peeks on my phone, I had to wrap that post up quick. But yes,

VOTE: Celebloki

[TimmerRC]

Summary

I can confirm that Guillo is not scum, so we are not living in a perfect world where town auto this shit.

Hopefully this injects my thoughts and process in the thread and I have helped you determine whether I deserve the sussuspicion I've gotten so far or not, as well as some insights about the interactions between some of the players.

I trimmed down that post, but... like, I'm sorry, was all of those posts, all of those association link things really just to basically say that you are town? The overall gist seems to be that you aren't mafia because if you were, you mentioned your teammates a lot?

[TimmerRC]

No, demonstrating that I'm town is not the aim of this exercise. In this exercise, I'm someone else analyzing everyone's behavior, including how other people have engaged with my slot and I with them, and the result was what you mentioned yes, but also how other slots have been engaged, like Elements, Gamma and other players I mentioned there.

So, when you were starting to write it out, did you realize that it would be a bit self-promotional and if so, did you think that self-promotion would be overshadowed by the other points?

[TimmerRC]

Can someone explain the case on Celebloki?

Spoiler: case highlighted in color

I've also been in a lot of games that Random Nurse was in a the start, my RVS vote on him is basically because I knew he wasn't going to show.

VOTE: Celebloki

It feels strange to me that nobody else took issue with this for the same reason I did. Guillotina voted here but not for the same reason.

The issue I have with this post is it reveals that Celebloki wanted a 'safe' RVS vote. Who but scum wants that?

Who but scum even thinks "I know this guy isnt going to show so I'll vote him in RVS"

If you're doing this as town you can just not vote. This is scum trying to fit in during RVS and now that we're out of it he felt comfortable enough to admit it.

He slipped imo

Who but scum even thinks "I know this guy isnt going to show so I'll vote him in RVS"

If you're doing this as town you can just not vote. This is scum trying to fit in during RVS and now that we're out of it he felt comfortable enough to admit it.

He slipped imo

I always have a reason for a vote, even in RVS. It can sometimes be just because I think their name is silly, because of a previous game with that person, or any other random reason. Are you saying all townies always truly randomly vote in RVS? You had no reason to vote Nono or guillotina at the start?

Nono, no. No reason I mean.

Guillotina, yes. For that one time he was scum (that I found on D1 who then turned it around on me and got me mislimmed D1) in that one game (Chrono Trigger Chronicles: The Rise of Yakra).

I don't think townies truly "randomly" vote, no. For me I was just looking through the player list and the name caught my eye so I voted nono. Then I stopped looking at the playerlist and got back to reading the game. Later on I looked at the full playerlist and recognized Guillotina and I did have a reason for that vote.

I dont think the problem is that your vote wasnt random

, I dont think town is always going to open up a random number generator and pick someone.

The reason you had I think is scum-indicative. If you think RN isn't going to join the game, why vote there (rhetorical)? You'll never get a reaction that way and I think as town (the royal) you would want to avoid that kind of vote that does nothing when they could make a different one that might produce something.

That's why I moved my vote from Nono to Guillotina, because with Nono it was just a vote for whomever, not that likely to get attention, but I did get Guillotina's attention when he started reading

So you're entire case on Celebloki is that you think his RVS vote was safe? I don't really think scum would be concerned over the optics of an RVS vote

Does anyone else have anything more substantial?

There isn't much else to go on, I was happy to help apply some pressure there but it is def getting stale. That said they seem to have disappeared which isn't very towny imo. Town fights back against even a weak train, scum are more likely to fret in their chatroom.

[TimmerRC]

I would like to propose a plan:

Every person list 2-4 people they are sure are town with higher than 90% certainty.

Then we make a pool of 4-5 people who never get voted today.

Then we just wagon a random person who's not in the pool, and repeat the same tomorrow. If the reads are accurate, that gives 33% chance to hit scum each day, or about 60% chance to to succeed on either.

My 2 are Gamma and Nurse btw.

Not loving this idea, it seems a little too guide-the-townies-to-their-death to me.

[TimmerRC]

If you want to be less scumread, STOP talking about how scummy or not scummy your RVS vote was, and start posting reads on OTHER players.

This sums up what I said about Celeb nicely, it seems like they is nothing in their game but quiet bewilderment about the chords against them. That said, at least they are now posting a bit more in my catch up

[TimmerRC]

VOTE: Celebloki

We gave them time to breath and has done little with the time we gave them.

Trying to catch up, the game exploded since my last chance to follow it, but I'm happy this was mentioned. They've done nothing but hide back into the shadows.

As for Hu, I would support a vote in that direction, I don't have any strong townie vibes, but I also think they are playing, working on stances on things and participating which means they aren't my first choice.

[TimmerRC]

I'm not really interested in applying more pressure to Naerys, I don't see anything different from her play here than it was in 245 or the game BQ2 linked (both of which I was in). Naerys similarly got tunneled in both those games and she complained about being lim bait, so if anything this is normal towny behavior for her.

I think Hu Tao bringing up 245 is funny as an example of a game where she pushed someone hard D1. In 245 she was pushing a mis elim on a townie that was being hard pushed by a Scum FL. So she's saying its normal for her to sheep a bad wagon being pushed by scum D1. Interestingly in this game she is pushing Naerys on her own accord it seems, so it is slightly different than 245. Maybe she's scum pushing her own mis-elim. I am interested in applying pressure to Hu Tao in this case.

VOTE: Hu Tao

I have somehow skimmed the Naerys thing without digesting any of it, I feel like I read the initial sus thoughts towards them, went "meh" and it never settled into my brain, so I will run an ISO on hem later.

[TimmerRC]

Looking at the activity overview, you don't have many more posts than me. Pot calling the kettle black I guess.

How long have you played mafia?

[TimmerRC]

@Kyoko, I have been keeping track and Hu Tao is at 5 votes. I am still waiting for Naerys to join btw.

If it's at 5 votes, I'll join to add some pressure while I chat with Celeb a bit.

VOTE: Hu Tao

[TimmerRC]

Off and on for 15 or so years.

So you must know how pointing out my post count looks as a retort? It isn't all about post totals, it's about what you do with the posts you can make. Wasn't it you who Broccoli called out to talk about anything in the game not related to yourself, and here you are still, sorry, being petulant?

[TimmerRC]

I got hammered with that last vote. I was town pr. Congrats. Have fun in the game without me.

Going by the post count that someone posted before my vote, you weren't that close to a lim, and you shouldn't be limmed now??

[TimmerRC]

UNVOTE: while this is digested

[TimmerRC]

I am a complex indecisive doctor. That sounds about right

I have no idea why you would put a line as "im making this up"-y as "that sounds about right" onto your claim but looking at the site info for this kind of game, the role makes perfect sense.

[TimmerRC]

I feel like
1. If Hu Tao's claim is real, it's not that helpful of a role right now because we're so early in. It would very hard to correctly guess the NK this early in the game, so even if it's real, scum might just leave them be anyways in hopes they'll get mislimmed before scum want to spend a NK on them
2. Could just be a fake claim because they have a useful scum PR
3. Could just be a fake claim from a goon to try to avoid dying/get value before dying

I feel like if we ignore the claim and lim Hu Tao anyways we would gain a lot more than we stand to lose if they are town. Like risk-reward is in favor of limming Hu Tao.

So you are in favour of limming a claimed Doctor?

[TimmerRC]

Hu's claim of being hammered was quite weird and could be false. Celebloki being so adamant about the vote remaining there seems like self preservation, I'm trying to decide if that feels scum aligned or not.

[TimmerRC]

Obviously I meant the thinking they were hammered part. Dude.

[TimmerRC]

Why self preservation? I think it's perfectly reasonable not to believe the claim.

I feel like Celeb's been asked to comment on the game and not their own situation and this is the first thing that they've come out swinging on. The thought isn't bad, the whole thing feels weird to me as well, but the adamant tone when this is a chance to deflect attention off of themselves just feels convenient.

That said... Hu dropped this awkwardly and a bit jokily and then seems to have disappeared, which I don't like.

[TimmerRC]

Obviously I meant the thinking they were hammered part. Dude.

yeah and that’s why I find your word choice an issue. I don’t see how you are undecided on the legitimacy of the reaction, so it feels like manufactured leeway.

You don't believe it could have been a real reaction, to the point that anyone using a simple term to indicate that none of us know if it was or not is scummy to you?

That's not manufactured leeway that's me saying I've seen a lot of weird shit in mafia and I don't jump to assumptions very quickly because of it.

[TimmerRC]

I believe Hu Tao's claim and I think the people voting for her should probably find something else to do today

I believe in the standard concept that if someone claims a PR, especially a common one, and no one counterclaims them, that you don't lim then.

Which brings me to this:

I feel like
1. If Hu Tao's claim is real, it's not that helpful of a role right now because we're so early in. It would very hard to correctly guess the NK this early in the game, so even if it's real, scum might just leave them be anyways in hopes they'll get mislimmed before scum want to spend a NK on them
2. Could just be a fake claim because they have a useful scum PR
3. Could just be a fake claim from a goon to try to avoid dying/get value before dying

I feel like if we ignore the claim and lim Hu Tao anyways we would gain a lot more than we stand to lose if they are town. Like risk-reward is in favor of limming Hu Tao.

I've never seen a post like this.

#1 contains both the nugget that a Town Doctor isn't important and suggests that it would be ok to mislim them because hey mafia would likely let them live to get mislimmed later. How is that town?

[TimmerRC]

VOTE: Kyouko

[TimmerRC]

Holy output today! I'll be home and able to catch up on s couple hours

[TimmerRC]

I wish I could say that I care about your IRL "facts" Gamma. If you really are having a mental breakdown, it's best for you to step away and seek for help outside this game and come back later but making us carry that burden when we are pressuring you is unfair, you could still be a wolf having a mental breakdown at work.

I had to force myself to walk from mafia years ago because I found myself in exactly this kind of position. I hope you will see that this is just a time waster game and life comes first. That said, I haven't felt any townie vibes from you at all so if you are going to get limmed it will have been earned imo.

[TimmerRC]

Just did an iso of Keyleth. I don't see anything scummy, they remind of a player from years ago named Juliets' Coffee who posted in the same polite middle ground style. I won't oppose a lim there if that's where we're going, but I'm not really supportive. I'd rather see Celeb or Kyouko, or even Gamma limmed ahead of them personally.

[TimmerRC]

I'll move my vote to Keyleth if the alternative is a non-lim, it seems like we have all stalled out.

[TimmerRC]

I don't really pay attention to any case based on what someone said in a game at some point in the past. A good player can use their meta to their advantage and fuck around with it. Past games and meta are useless imo. Show me shady things from THIS game, not something in last July.

That said, would rooting through past games be alignment indicative? Does that effort to find that old post make Kyouko lean more town?

[TimmerRC]

What did Celeb soft claim? How did I miss that

[TimmerRC]

We can't just keep running people up to claims and then moving to someone else

Does this bring us back to keyleth? Or have they claimed something too, I'm losing track

[TimmerRC]

Sorry about asking about it,this site has a million role possibilities and I keep heading to the FAQ page to read up on them. But leave it for now I don't see the lim goingyour way at this point.

[TimmerRC]

UNVOTE:

Any chance of an updated vc?

[TimmerRC]

VOTE: kawaii we need a lim. I guess that's E-1.

[TimmerRC]

Yeah that feels like someone told them to get in here, I think we have our lim, especially with no PR claim.

[TimmerRC]

Yeah that feels like someone told them to get in here, I think we have our lim, especially with no PR claim.

By any chance are you from a community where mafia usually have a discord chat?

I've had chatrooms for scum teams everywhere I've ever played, most of my history predates Discord though. Why?

[TimmerRC]

Dunn thinks you summoned him

I did not, lol.

[TimmerRC]

[youtube][/youtube]

I was just wondering how they would be summoned from a pt unless they were already on the site and probably following along

What's a pt?

[TimmerRC]

private topic. getting a little obvious with the townslips bucko

I've played exactly one game on the site and I was town, I am used to mafia having chatrooms on entirely separate sites where they chat. I can link you to one from the past, if you would like.

[TimmerRC]

As an example:

https://omgpiranhatime.freeforums.net/b ... discussion

That was a chatroom for the mafia of a Super Mario Bros mafia game I played. I've never explored or been made aware of private topics, you'll just have to believe that or not.

[TimmerRC]

Yeah I just back and saw that that was a thing. I really don't know what to tell you, I just showed you the kind of bad guy hangout I'm used to. Scum always were given off-site chats where I used to play.

[TimmerRC]

I'm here, sorry busy day!

[TimmerRC]

So Hu lied about their claim but it's cool because they are obv-town, Dunn can't understand Black's role and how it resulted in Gamma's death, Celeb soft-suggested a protective role and apparently crumbed some clues but now says they are an investigator and yet we are believing them as well even though they will explain itall tomorrow, does that sum things up?

[TimmerRC]

This businessof bolding letters, capitaling things etc, is that commonly done on this site? How often does that actually pay off in some tangible way?

[TimmerRC]

This businessof bolding letters, capitaling things etc, is that commonly done on this site? How often does that actually pay off in some tangible way?

Quite often? Maybe in 30-50% of games, I'd say.

Sorry to harp on this, but 30 to 50% of the time it benefits town? I just don't see how these little clues help since long time players on both sides presumably catch them equally easily?

[TimmerRC]

I agree with Broccoli that this needs to be resolved. Vanilla, no doctor, no vanilla vs soft crumb protective, no investigative, oh I'll explain tomorrow... the part that has me eyeing Celeb is that I'll explain tomorrow part, that's so shifty

[TimmerRC]

My plan originally was to investigate the millers. If I live to and through tonight I plan to do that. I won't go further on what my crumbs meant. They do have a purpose, but it's not beneficial to town to go into them right now.

This is what I mean. Yes I left crumbs but I won't explain it, but I'll check the Miller's? Checking a claimed Miller is the easiest path for a fake cop to try to keep the ruse going.

[TimmerRC]

This businessof bolding letters, capitaling things etc, is that commonly done on this site? How often does that actually pay off in some tangible way?

Quite often? Maybe in 30-50% of games, I'd say.

Sorry to harp on this, but 30 to 50% of the time it benefits town? I just don't see how these little clues help since long time players on both sides presumably catch them equally easily?

Are you new here?

Yes, lol.

[TimmerRC]

So Hu lied about their claim but it's cool because they are obv-town, Dunn can't understand Black's role and how it resulted in Gamma's death, Celeb soft-suggested a protective role and apparently crumbed some clues but now says they are an investigator and yet we are believing them as well even though they will explain itall tomorrow, does that sum things up?

Why is Hu obvious town?

I don't believe they are, I was referring to players suggesting that on their end. At least one person has indicated very strongly that they believe Hu to be town regardless of the lies.

[TimmerRC]

I don't understand this logic

If you faking a cop-type role, the easiest path to establishing credibility is to "investigate" players that we all already kinda know. So Celeb is saying they want to investigate the millers, well there's 2 of them, so to me, that's basically saying "i'll just show back up on day 3 and say yup that player is a miller" and then on day 4 "yup, that other player is a miller".

I don't like it as if someone asked me before this game day started "what would you do if you were going to try to establish a fake cop claim, I'd say point blank "say i'll check the millers" It's just utterly convenient.

[TimmerRC]

I am claiming role cop, not any other kind of cop. It returns whatever the slots role is, but I don't get alignment. If the slot is VT, Goon, whatever, I'm supposed to get something to indicate it's a generic role so I don't get alignment. For Hu Tao I got Vanilla. This could mean VT, Goon, SK, whatever the basic role for a faction is.

I was excited when the game started and we had 2 Miller claims, because if I check one and get Miller, that's pretty set what it means.

Then why didn't you?

^this is what I mean, you basically are seeing the same thing. (This is in reference to my last post)

And FWIW, I feel like several people in the game indicated that they suspected Hu Tao's doctor claim was obv-false to the point of not even feeling that the lie was indicative of anything, so theoretically a bad-Celeb declaring Hu to be vanilla would be an easy gambit to pull.

[TimmerRC]

So what was your plan if your result for Hu came back as doctor? Stay silent?

[TimmerRC]

I am claiming role cop, not any other kind of cop. It returns whatever the slots role is, but I don't get alignment. If the slot is VT, Goon, whatever,

I'm supposed to get something to indicate it's a generic role so I don't get alignment. For Hu Tao I got Vanilla.

This could mean VT, Goon, SK, whatever the basic role for a faction is.

I was excited when the game started and we had 2 Miller claims, because if I check one and get Miller, that's pretty set what it means.

Last thing I'll mention for now because I'm at work and it's getting a bit busy, but if I seem to be fixated on Celeb's claims the bolded part in the quote is part of it. That just reads like someone read the wiki and tried explaining a fake claim from that, and not someone checking their role PM.

From the wiki: "Vanilla players have role names that vary by faction; a Role Cop scanning these will get "Vanilla" as the response, again anonymising the win condition. Thus, a Mafia Goon or a Serial Killer should give the same result as a Vanilla Townie (unless they have extra abilities). "

they even mention all three examples from the wiki, VT, Goon, SK.

So for the moment, I do not trust Celeb at all. Following my gut.

[TimmerRC]

What do you mean "so what?," Broccoli?

She recanted the VT claim after a PR investigative claimed she was Vanilla.

This is the optimal lim for tday, otherwise it will drag down the game until it is resolved.

I'm trying to catch up, but as of this moment, I agree with this. ^ Still a couple pages to go.

[TimmerRC]

Dave gob keyleth timmer elements andres.

I think is where I want to be today. Black seemed to be a proponent of leaving Hu Tao alive, maybe this is part of why she was killed.

Celebloki is off the list today because I can see him maybe making a poor targeting decision as town. I liked a point someone brought up about rolecopping the millers. Something like "that's the easiest way to let scum get away with a fake claim". I do think that town!Hu Tao is exactly who a scum!Rolecop would target and for that reason I dont want him to have the easy out of confirming miller claims

I also have not examined Andres' post where he has a lot of post numbers with notes in a spoiler. It could be upon reading that closely I don't want to lim him toDay.

I don't understand this post. You like the point about how claiming to plan to check the millers is an easy out for a scum, AND you think it makes sense for a scum cop to have checked Hu Tao, AND you don't want him to have the easy out of confirming millers, and yet... Celeb is off of your vote list today? And I am on your list, even though I'm the one who made the point that you say you liked, and which it seems is heavily informing your view of Celeb?

Am I misunderstanding, you seem to be contradicting yourself within the span of a single post.

[TimmerRC]

I don't have time to check where the vote is at, but my vote will be for Hu Tao. Lying, mis-claiming roles and potentially outing a doctor, these are not things a townie does in my experience.

[TimmerRC]

There is probably some irony in what I'm about to ask,depending on the answer, but... cansomeone define townslip for me, please? I actually tried googling it but found nothing. I'm asking because I could see it meaning either of "something only a townie would say" thus strongly suggesting that someone is town, or, "something someone would say to sound townie" which would then suggest that someone is NOT town.

I've seen this come up occasionally with my posts but I've struggled to know how to comment since I can't decide if I'm being suspected or supported, lol.

[TimmerRC]

And sorry for the sporadic nature of my posting, I work long shifts running a mycology lab and play and post when I'm not exhausted or working.

The capital letter thing is driving me crazy. I see people popping them and all I can think is well if I saw that so did everyone else, so just say what you've got to say, lol.

[TimmerRC]

Nice job on keeping this game rolling in the right direction with that lim, I'm pretty adrift at the moment in keeping up.

Since my name is naturally coming up as I'm quiet, I'll just say that I'm town and if we need to lim me to narrow the pool of potential scum left I totally get it.

I'm not exactly being a huge help as a member of the living, so if push comes to above and we need a lim target, I'll understand if I'm it.

Eta: I'm just Town. I wish I had something to do at night that's my fave.

[TimmerRC]

So ypu are vanilla? Just making sure

Yes.

[TimmerRC]

do you have any thoughts about the game? Like who is likelier to be scum between Enchant and Andres, and why?

Is there anyone in my town reads you think I might be wrong on?

Pedit: Andres please claim or I will make sure you are policy limmed.

No, I'm horribly behind, which is partly why I'm willing to be limmed if its needed, i'm not helping much and i've lost track ofthings. I will have to read their ISOs to give you an answer, I don't even know the cases against them.

[TimmerRC]

These complex roles are beyond me. Can anyone summarize the basic case on Elements?

[TimmerRC]

These complex roles are beyond me. Can anyone summarize the basic case on Elements?

I don't think there's any case on Elements tbh

Sorry I meant Enchant, this is the state of things for me right now, lol.

[TimmerRC]

Okay, I'll go with it. I'm resigned to playing catch up.

VOTE: Enchant

[TimmerRC]

I also don't see Timmer coming in to stop this from happening, I think we just need to give dave and RN time to post anything they have on their minds in case

something happens

toNight

I'm totally okay with this, I'm not helping town in any way, I'm so far over my head and it's obvious. I am a VT, so you aren't losing much, hopefully things will somehow become clearer after the night phase!

Thanks for the game, guys, I'm sorry I couldn't keep up.

[TimmerRC]

And just as an apology, it's my own fault, I picked a stupid time to try to play, I'm prepping Christmas for the fam, I'm in the process of setting up a Mycology lab for my region, and honestly the output on this site is just too much for me even without that, so I'll likely not sign up for another. Thanks again!

[TimmerRC]

Oh hell, I'm still here?

UNVOTE:

[TimmerRC]

i'll VOTE: elements to help get to the next day.

[TimmerRC]

I got no message, and I am townie, a lim of me is fine but it will waste a day.

[TimmerRC]

Btw I would love to try to catch up and play and contribute, but the concept of why I'm thy lim target just makes there be no point. So just lim me, there's no point in me trying to catch up. I can't argue against nothing, you all know deep down that I'm town but you just don't seem to care.

[TimmerRC]

To add to that, the remaining guys are pretty clearly in the claimed PRs, so limming me just gives them more time to concoct lies that so far people are buying.

Limming me is useless and makes your window for making mistakes shrink, not grow.

[TimmerRC]

My struggle is this.

People are talking about shortlists of people to lim based on "mechanical clears". I don't know what that means. I don't know HOW to fight against that concept because I don't even know what it means.

People talk about how so n so played a certain way in a game in the past thus they are town, or scum, and it means nothing to me so I don't know how to use that.

People are blindly making plans on night actions with people who are almost certainly at least somewhere lying and fudging their results, but everyone seems ok to trust and plan, and that's bewildering to me.

I lost track of the game and these issues just crushed my ability to play, and now all of this mechanical stuff means I am getting limmed, so yes, I threw in the towel the other day. But I would be willing to try to participate now that I have time, but I have no idea what I can say that would fight against this idea of limming me. What can I say against it?

[TimmerRC]

This is not a game for a newbie, and even when I ask an effing question, I get told I'm feigning being town and making my questions up. So there's literally nowhere for me to go.

[TimmerRC]

I gave up ages ago but am willing to try to come back, I'm just trying to decide if its even possible.

I think everyone who is permanently fixated on the idea of voting me out is shady, which doesn't help because its probably omgus and the only person making sense to me is Hu Tao because they are reading my posts plainly and not getting swayed by noise.

[TimmerRC]

Well that gives me my answer, thank you.