Mini Normal 2326 | Everything has exploded !

[Grackaroni]

Yay!

I've been skimming through, but I haven't been reading too closely. Looks like a fun game.

[Grackaroni]

I'm just going to be reading through from the start and quoting as I go.

This is IML. As soon as a majority is reached, the lunch is served. Drumming for quick votes is more mafia indicative than town indicative. We don‘t have enough information.

Consider this a FoS on Dannflor.

This is the first post that's pinging me. It just feels different from what I'd expect to read from Vivax.

[Grackaroni]

Im thinking its dannfloor VOTE: dannfloor

VOTE: Vivax

Im not liking outoforder so far.

I don't think Gob is mafia from the way they entered the thread. They just completely ignored the conversation and threw out three unsubstantiated votes/suspicion. I don't think mafia would do that.

[Grackaroni]

I'm just going to be reading through from the start and quoting as I go.

This is IML. As soon as a majority is reached, the lunch is served. Drumming for quick votes is more mafia indicative than town indicative. We don‘t have enough information.

Consider this a FoS on Dannflor.

This is the first post that's pinging me. It just feels different from what I'd expect to read from Vivax.

vivax has felt different to me all game, it seems like he is more comfortable in this setting than the games on TL and kind of plays around the site differences? ( I kind of put it down to the fact that he has experience here, and others from TL like me and oates are struggling in the environment)

Possible that he's playing differently due to the site. My view of Vivax is that he has two modes as town. Either he's laid back posting
a lot of random comments or he's hyper-suspicious of people.

[Grackaroni]

I don't resonate with Roden's level of conviction at all here, nor do I think he really believes it himself.

Although it wouldn't surprise me if Oats/Roden is S/S - this whole interaction feels contrived to me.

I like this post.

This argument between Roden/Oats feels very bizarre.

[Grackaroni]

If you read P11 and think Roden is scum then you should replay the tutorial

I'd gladly retake the tutorial but I'm still a bit on the fence. Oats complaining about rvs seems pretty normal and then he lashes out at Oats for no reason and then keeps a low profile afterwards.

[Grackaroni]

I really don’t see whatever it is you are seeing in that interaction vivax. Roden’s play looks like exactly what I would as mafia in that circumstance.

Sounding consistently righteous is hard for scum to pull off but it‘s what the majority of his posts sound like.

Dunno, feels like an easy TR.

I like this post.

It wasn't what I was thinking from the interactions but I can see this read coming from a townie.

[Grackaroni]

I really don’t see whatever it is you are seeing in that interaction vivax. Roden’s play looks like exactly what I would as mafia in that circumstance.

Sounding consistently righteous is hard for scum to pull off but it‘s what the majority of his posts sound like.

Dunno, feels like an easy TR.

I like this post.

It wasn't what I was thinking from the interactions but I can see this read coming from a townie.

Although why did you first call Roden town for being laid back??

[Grackaroni]

Ninja can you post a list of your reads please.

I'll just copy and paste the notes I keep on my desktop.

TOWN
Luca Blight - active, good take in post 56
Dannflor - very active. Strangely aggressive? but still making good arguments
Oatsmaster - aggressive pushback on Roden, being a jerk, which is kinda townie tell

NULL
Outoforder - active, but acting in odd and suspicious ways, need better explanations
DarthPunk - very active, Post 57 struck me as sus and I commented on it
Vivax - very active, Back and forth with him over DarthPunk comment, but untrustworthy
Naerys - inactive
Hu Tao - inactive

SCUM
Gob - slightly more active but underwhelming, some bizarre play with the case on Vivax
Roden - was inactive, then strangely aggressive after I pushed him for it, defensive / dismissive
Dunnstral - inactive for a long period, pushed back on my activity level post

MalcolmTucker is afk so they could be anything.

what are the good arguments that dannflor has made?

I do wonder what Superfluous is referring to in this post with her post about Dannfloor if not the post about herself, which I know she says she missed in a later post. That's the bulk of his content that I've noted at this point and the most aggressive post that he's made.

[Grackaroni]

dunnstral why is superfluous' assertion about lurkers like the most interesting thing to you about this game so far

i don't think you're scum for lurking but i don't understand why you are picking at the things you are picking at

Well there's a lot of things that I don't feel like commenting on. Their assertions feel wrong so I felt like commenting on it.

How is it that you have so many posts on this forum and so few in this game?

[Grackaroni]

VOTE: DarthPunk

Im taking a stand.

Why is DP mafia to you?

[Grackaroni]

VOTE: DarthPunk

Im taking a stand.

Why is DP mafia to you?

Too tighetened up too me in their posts. Feels like they're coming in with an agenda. It seems like you guys know him better than me though so if this is how he normally acts, chime in.

He's a strong player but I haven't seen anything abnormal or agenda'd yet about the way he's been posting.

[Grackaroni]

Have you finished your catchup grack? would be interested in your initial impressions/reads particularly for the TL crew.

No probably in about an hour.

[Grackaroni]

Finished reading through the thread.

My top town are Dannfloor/gob/Hu Tao.

Dannfloor for leading the pushes in thread. I don't feel either of them have been scum-motivated.

The way Gob posts I just don't see coming from scum.

Hu-Tao - I liked post #576 the most, but he just seems very care free while still contributing.

I don't like the way OutofOrder has been posting so far. I think as town he is able to consistently assist the town by narrowing and eliminating people from the lynch pool, while as scum he is able to build up a large post count by getting into arguments that lead nowhere.

I'd probably favor lynching a lurker at this point since there are some people that are giving absolutely nothing, but if not a lurker then I would lynch Ninja/Roden.

[Grackaroni]

I've realized I said a bad word. It's the standard terminology on my site so it's hard to avoid.

I will work on this for the future.

[Grackaroni]

This is why we should’ve went with yeet back in the day :p

Grack what’s your opinion on the other TL boys

I don't have much of an opinion.

You/DP seem more likely town while OOO/Vivax seem more mafia so far, but nobody is in immediate yeeting territory.

[Grackaroni]

Finished reading through the thread.

My top town are Dannfloor/gob/Hu Tao.

Dannfloor for leading the pushes in thread. I don't feel either of them have been scum-motivated.

The way Gob posts I just don't see coming from scum.

Hu-Tao - I liked post #576 the most, but he just seems very care free while still contributing.

I don't like the way OutofOrder has been posting so far. I think as town he is able to consistently assist the town by narrowing and eliminating people from the lynch pool, while as scum he is able to build up a large post count by getting into arguments that lead nowhere.

I'd probably favor lynching a lurker at this point since there are some people that are giving absolutely nothing, but if not a lurker then I would lynch Ninja/Roden.

Well that's an awfully confusing decision. You think Roden and myself are both lynch-worthy, even though I've openly stated that I think Roden is the most deserving of a vote today and Roden thinks I'm guilty? He even accused me of gaslighting him which is an IRL very serious accusation to make and is very unlikely to come from a scum buddy. This seems like a massive flaw in your reads here. I assume you're operating on some assumption that we're a scum team distancing ourselves from one another? Because this goes way beyond "distance"; this is clear antagonism between the two of us.

This is otherwise, like, very underwhelming output. What are your thoughts on Luca, Oats, Darth, Vivax, Dunn, Naerys? I think what bothers me most here is that you're highlighting a town read on Gob who has been willfully obstinate and contributed very little, as well as Hu Tao who frankly has also been pretty underwhelming in this game, especially compared to the likes of Luca, Oats, Darth, or Vivax who have all contributed a lot more content but went unmentioned here. It's not that I expect you to have a full reads list; it just strikes me as a little odd that you seem most comfortable with takes about people who say a lot less and avoided talking about what seem like the easier-to-read people in this game.

No I don't have any assumption that you're distancing from each other. To be honest I couldn't even remember what your stances towards each other were.I just view both of you as more likely scum than random for having acted strangely so far. Maybe 30-40%.

I compare everyone against my own view of their capabilities as players and having played with Oats/Darth/Vivax a lot I don't think any of them have posted anything that they aren't capable of posting as scum, so I can't give them a town read.

I have liked some of Luca's posts so far this game.

[Grackaroni]

No I don't have any assumption that you're distancing from each other. To be honest I couldn't even remember what your stances towards each other were.

Okay. Well, Roden is my strongest scum read and I would very much love to see him yeeted today. Roden is also currently voting for me and used language in that vote that makes it seem like that opinion is pretty rock-solid and isn't going to change.

Does knowing this change anything for you?

I just view both of you as more likely scum than random for having acted strangely so far. Maybe 30-40%.

This is maybe too broad of a question, but can I ask in what ways I have "acted strangely"? I can explain my actions on everything; I have nothing to hide. You are free to press me and interrogate me as thoroughly as you like.

I compare everyone against my own view of their capabilities as players and having played with Oats/Darth/Vivax a lot I don't think any of them have posted anything that they aren't capable of posting as scum, so I can't give them a town read.

I have liked some of Luca's posts so far this game.

Okay, that seems sensible. I don't have anything to add; I'm just leaving this here so you know I read it

For me it was the vague list post into saying that you'd missed Dannfloor's post on you and that you were still mulling over your thoughts on him. Usually I'd expect players to have immediate reactions to people pushing them.

I don't usually like to judge entrance posts but your entrance also reads as forced to me... with the 'yeehaaaw' and the dad joke.

[Grackaroni]

For the moment I'd rather

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Grackaroni]

I don't really think you are mafia, especially after you wrote that big post. I do suspect what Roden was doing in pushing whatshisname as their confidence felt faked. And now that you've pointed out I agree that Hu Tao's vote on you does not look good so they seem suspicious too.

Can you just summarize your thoughts on the players in the game so that we kind of have a sense of what your thoughts are and how you would like to progress things.

True at the moment, but it won't be true for long after this game

You get the idea though. You must usually be an active poster to have built up the post count that you have.

[Grackaroni]

Oh I quoted the wrong post.

oh well

[Grackaroni]

I'm going to start getting nervous if OOO spends huge chunks of time away from the thread by the way.

Then we prepare the catapult for yeeting.

[Grackaroni]

No I don't have any assumption that you're distancing from each other. To be honest I couldn't even remember what your stances towards each other were.

Okay. Well, Roden is my strongest scum read and I would very much love to see him yeeted today. Roden is also currently voting for me and used language in that vote that makes it seem like that opinion is pretty rock-solid and isn't going to change.

Does knowing this change anything for you?

I just view both of you as more likely scum than random for having acted strangely so far. Maybe 30-40%.

This is maybe too broad of a question, but can I ask in what ways I have "acted strangely"? I can explain my actions on everything; I have nothing to hide. You are free to press me and interrogate me as thoroughly as you like.

I compare everyone against my own view of their capabilities as players and having played with Oats/Darth/Vivax a lot I don't think any of them have posted anything that they aren't capable of posting as scum, so I can't give them a town read.

I have liked some of Luca's posts so far this game.

Okay, that seems sensible. I don't have anything to add; I'm just leaving this here so you know I read it

For me it was the vague list post into saying that you'd missed Dannfloor's post on you and that you were still mulling over your thoughts on him. Usually I'd expect players to have immediate reactions to people pushing them.

I don't usually like to judge entrance posts but your entrance also reads as forced to me... with the 'yeehaaaw' and the dad joke.

Okay, but I was hoping for more than just why you feel how you feel about me. The main point of my post was to see how you'd address your clear read conflict on both Roden and myself, so I figured you'd at least also comment on your read on Roden and maybe say something about how your reads are clearly extremely difficult to reconcile, given how much Roden and I are at each other's throats.

Can I ask also, if you are able to remember / speak to this, when you wrote this reply, how much of the thread had you caught up on? Had you read everything by this point?

I probably was caught up at that point. If I remember I think it was one of my last posts before I went to bed.

I was planning on reading through the rest of the thread tonight, but I got caught up in a rabbit hole re-reading the Roden exchange for this comment, so I'll be back in the morning.

I really don't read anything at all into you pushing him or him pushing you. I am not building any worlds of players being together. At this point I'm just trying to sort players based on more likely/less likely to be mafia irrespective of each other. (Though I will say that it's not unheard of for mafia players to push against each other. For some mafia players that's their preferred way of playing.)

[Grackaroni]

I've been re-reading the Roden/Oats exchange.

unluckily vivax might be scum, thats a shame

otherwise, RVS in a instant majority lynch is a fucking terrible idea and yall should be ashamed of creating that site culture. Absolutely absurd

???

What exactly do you expect to happen?

I'm assuming you're another of Vivax's off site friends?

unluckily vivax might be scum, thats a shame

otherwise, RVS in a instant majority lynch is a fucking terrible idea and yall should be ashamed of creating that site culture. Absolutely absurd

???

What exactly do you expect to happen?

Someone getting quick yeeted because people are being funny

VOTE: Oats

Don't believe this faux outrage

unluckily vivax might be scum, thats a shame

otherwise, RVS in a instant majority lynch is a fucking terrible idea and yall should be ashamed of creating that site culture. Absolutely absurd

???

What exactly do you expect to happen?

Someone getting quick yeeted because people are being funny

VOTE: Oats

Don't believe this faux outrage

It’s real outrage

Bad answer

Roden views Oats' reaction to rvs as faux outrage and thinks that these kinds of posts are made more often by scum, but at the same time is trying to judge first whether Oats' reaction may be due to site differences instead -- This actually seems like a pretty natural progression for his suspicion and I can follow the mindset. I can even get behind the idea behind it. I don't usually random vote, but to come in and make a big deal out of it happening just seems performative.

In the next posts he seems super convinced that Oats is scum. He starts posting read associations for other players based off Oats' posts and saying that he clearly failed an attempt to power wolf. The way he switches on the scum read seemingly from 0 to 100 for little reason is what reads as super strange to me and made the exchange seem out of place with the rest of the thread.

Roden says Luca is obviously the 2nd scum for defending Oats and then says that it's obvious that he's not being serious

I'm mainly just fucking with Oats for being unnecessarily unhelpful and rude

I do genuinely think he's scum for his faux outrage though, and his attempts to discredit me aren't helping

FYI it makes it really hard for players to interpret what you actually believe if you write troll posts just to fuck with somebody that you're scum reading and then make the same style of posts against other people. I still can't tell how strongly you really felt about Oats being mafia. You said that you were really convinced that Oats was scum from the way he was evading answering whether he's from Vivax's site (TL), and then back off after finding out that he is, but if you were truly convinced he was scum then which posts were you making to fuck with him? I'd be interested in hearing what you actually believed without the bravado. (You say that you keep running into uncooperative people playing against their win-con, but you were the one that was trolling and egging on the argument lol)

My case on Order is void at atp, I didn't like their early interactions with Luca and Vivax but 451 turned my opinion around. I vibe with the mentality "I only post what I feel I need to" and tonally I feel that their posting has gotten a lot better.

UNVOTE:

I also had some reservations about Dann, at one point it looked like he may have been trying to pocket me with posts like 332 and when he was hard defending me while writing his case against Ninja. I think he ultimately is town though for later backing up a bit and concluding that he might've been too hasty, I think if he were scum he would just stick to town reading me and leaving it at that.

Luca I think is spewed town for being unable to discern that I was mimicking Oats' play and behavior when interacting with him and then not knowing that me calling them scum was a joke. They've overall been fairly townie and strike me as someone who's got a decent grasp on the game.

Ninja at first seemed similar to Luca, but the more I interacted with her and then saw some of her later posts, the more I think she's just playing with an agenda to elim people rather than scum hunt. Her insistence on arguing that I'm wrong about my own thoughts and intentions reads more as gaslighting rather than someone who's actually try to solve my alignment. 499 doubles down on this and is very tonally manipulative.

VOTE: Ninja

Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems you think that people should be suspicious of you based off how you've posted so far. Luca's reaction to your posts spews them as town. Dannfloor first viewing your posts as townie is also viewed with suspicion.

I don't view Roden as suspiciously as I did before. He seems very chaotic, but I can at least see a basis for the posts he made now, and I'm more inclined to believe that he was trolling than that he was trying to back-track on his read on Luca or that his post about scum reading oats while fucking with him was a contradiction.

[Grackaroni]

I feel like a number of people (and people pretty familiar with Vivax?) have said various things along the lines of Vivax seeming different this game or that he seems scummy or that his reads don't make sense - and I'm wondering why no one actually seems to want to vote him

He's been yeeted as town on day 1 a few times in recent games and I think people are reluctant to do it again.

[Grackaroni]

That's absolutely very fucking stupid, both of you!!!

Legitimately will lose interest if we don’t flip someone within the next 24 hours

Then stop playing. You joined a game with a 10 days D1.
It's basically impossible to not lynch mafia in 10 days, dont cut the day into 1/3 of it just because youre bored. Play the game.

I'm liking the super long deadline. Gives you more freedom to miss some time and then jump back in. I Would not be upset if we use the whole 10 days.

[Grackaroni]

by the way, Ninja, if Roden is mafia here, I don't think it's wise to assume that his scum buddies would exclusively be in the slots defending him

I would expect at least one of his buddies to be soft pushing him or keeping him in their suspect pool given his relative absence and widespread suspicion

I've considered that. But Hu Tao has not said anything about Roden at all and they could easily do this soft pushing / keeping in the suspect pool. And as for Vivax, his actions are just so hard for me to understand in a general sense. He kinda blows all of my "it makes sense for a person to do X in this situation" out of the water. It could be one of those "too obvious and too blatant to be real" sorts of things.

I admit it's a little shaky from that perspective, but I'm generally just following where my reads on people are taking me.

I liked your recent reads post in general.

I think it's a good sign that your reasoning for suspecting Vivax is the same as what made you question me on my initial reads.

I think Vivax is actually more likely to post the way you're describing as town than as scum though. As town he has a history of getting quite paranoid and will give reads that seem out there/don't seem to make any sense. As scum I think he's more conscious of his image and realizes that he doesn't want to alienate himself from people that will be town leaders.

[Grackaroni]

Grack are you around in about 3hrs or so?

No I'll be here for around another hour and a half. Then on later at night.

[Grackaroni]

I am more amicable and diplomatic as mafia. I rarely take risks. I think if I had to pick my mafia version for this game it would be much more similar to how Luca Blight plays.
Maybe I should scumread him after all.

I can get behind this read.

Luca's posts are all very logical but there's something that feels off about it to me. He posts a light suspicion of Dann and then says that Dann is clear town after seeing his first case. Similarly he posts some things concerning him about DP/OoO, but then comes around pretty quickly to both of them being townie. He's not at all worried that a stronger player could have rolled mafia and his posts just feel rather safe.

[Grackaroni]

I guess activity is not a valid reason to scum read Dunnstral since in the town game he linked he's posted less than this one.

It's a pretty big stylistic difference for me. I'm used to people trying to save themselves from being yeeted like Ninja did.

[Grackaroni]

In general I associate sustained activity over long periods of time as much harder for mafia than town, so that will impact my reads.

I'd be curious if people on this site agree with that?

[Grackaroni]

I will start then.
Grack.

There are things that bother me a lot in his game. First of all it's quite hard to do catch up like that with keeping your story straight. Especially as mafia.
There is the post where Luca claims he thinks the interaction with Oats and Roden is S/S. Grack agrees with that, because it looks bizarre.
But after all the opinion actually is that Oats is town and Roden is not.
Then he suspects me and you (Vivax).

Then there is like sudden change in everything. Suddenly Roden doesn't look like mafia anymore. Suddenly Vivax doesn't look like mafia anymore. Suddenly Luca looks like mafia.
Notice that I am the only person ever in this game before Vivax just while ago to suspect Luca at any level. He doesn't have anything to say about his read on me.

Also he doesn't have anything to say about my post here:

Spoiler:

This is IML. As soon as a majority is reached, the lunch is served. Drumming for quick votes is more mafia indicative than town indicative. We don‘t have enough information.

Consider this a FoS on Dannflor.

I'm actually thinking now, contrary to before, that this might be a mafia post. I mean the theory behind this is legit, but we are playing on a site where RVS is pretty common and Vivax knows it for sure. There is simply no reason to say this, especially FoS anyone for a RV.

[...]
In this instance

I can see Outoforder having that certain abrasiveness and pushing notions I mostly can't find myself agreeing with

so he's the person who takes the heat while his team tries to appear reasonable. Main point that makes me vote him is how he approached gob which wasn't even a real read, he just said mafia wouldn't use such terrible reasoning.
[...]

This is simply what happens in every single game when i am town. Yet Vivax somehow deduces this as a scum tell for me. Note that he doesn't even think gob is mafia.

[...]

We differ a lot in how we approach gob. You tend to just take people playing in a scummy manner at face value while to me he looks just like a player who has fun being contrarian and has zero fear of dying

while annoying the hell out of people who take the game extremely seriously. In that way, I prefer to just treat him as a little thorn in the side who draws too much attention for the game's good (no offense though, I find it amusing).
[...]

I specifically find it suspicious from Oats though that he treated gob in that exceedingly serious manner while I did in a different one as described above

. I mean sure, he doesn't make sense but if he's town that's a main priority for scum to push. I don't know his alignment but I could see him being town shark bait. He's not even triyng to be scummy on purpose, he's just... Derp?

Made the post a clickable spoiler since i assume that was the intent

First underline, that's

exactly how i did and have treated gob

, i am scummy.
Second underline, Oats did the opposite, he is scummy.
What is scummy? Is every singe way you treat gob scummy or what?
There is simply no reason to assume Oats has done anything out of his town range anyways. Vivax should also know that.

Oats mostly from his abrasiveness and the whole stuff I already explained surrounding the way he handled gob who I saw as lunch bait at the time.
You because of the interaction with Ninja that I explained. Would have expected more pushback from you or let's call it OMGUS if you will.
OOO similarly to Oats because of his initial bad vibe I got.

Vivax just described how DP would act as mafia and turned the whole thing around so that

that

would look town and

this doesn't

.
Similarly Vivax just described exactly how me and Oats appear as town, rather than as mafia. Sure,

both of us could probably act like that as mafia

but there is simply no reaso nto believe either of us is mafia

because

of that.

As knowing me, Vivax, Oats and DP, regardless of if Grack thinks i am correct, incorrect or whatever here, this should be imo the most interesting post in the game to him, especially since he apparently suspects me. Alarm bells are ringing as he just comments absolutely nothing about it.

My reads are always pretty liable to shift quite a bit. I rarely get strong feelings for people's alignments early. The sudden shift in reads you mentioned was just me coming back into the thread the next day after reading a new set of posts.

I made one comment on your play that I think as town you're good at finding townies and moving the thread forward while as scum you can build up a lot of posts arguing with people without helping town. That didn't mean that I had you as a top suspect as you seem to be implying. In fact from the two people I felt seemed most mafia on my first night I was still voting a lurker instead.

I think you're flattering yourself here lol. I guess it's good that you think your post was so critical that I must be scum not to respond to it, but I've read over your post 3 times now and I still don't have a comment for it. It seems like you're trying to pin down Vivaxs' alignment from the way he applies logic to different players, but he's not exactly known for having a consistent stream of logic. If he's scum he's likely to lose interest anyways.

[Grackaroni]

Fwiw I forgot that I‘d accept gob in the bloc.
I‘m just kinda treating him as non-entity so I almost forgot. Cute posting but can‘t take it seriously.

His posts just come across as so innocent. It's like he puts no thought at all into how they will be perceived.

[Grackaroni]

I don't understand why you guys think he will self resolve

if he's scum he just kills the people who scum read him and wins

If he’s alive d4 I’m yeeting him and so should everyone else.

this feels extremely naive

You guys don’t have strong players here?
Realistically who gets nightkilled the first 3 nights?
Nobody is killing gob/naerys/hu Tao/ninja/Luca/vivax/you/Roden/Dunn

Woooooah

I made it into the night kill list.

[Grackaroni]

Why is Oats lock town?

[Grackaroni]

- Meant For DP

[Grackaroni]

Spoiler:

I am more amicable and diplomatic as mafia. I rarely take risks. I think if I had to pick my mafia version for this game it would be much more similar to how Luca Blight plays.
Maybe I should scumread him after all.

I can get behind this read.

Luca's posts are all very logical but there's something that feels off about it to me. He posts a light suspicion of Dann and then says that Dann is clear town after seeing his first case. Similarly he posts some things concerning him about DP/OoO, but then comes around pretty quickly to both of them being townie. He's not at all worried that a stronger player could have rolled mafia and his posts just feel rather safe.

I just don't see Dann's play as coming from scum at all, no matter how good he might be at playing scum. Just about every move he has made since his case on ninja has reflected my own reactions upon reading through. If he actually is scum then fair play, it's a masterful performance and he deserves it.

Outoforder seemed very town in his sorting of me earlier and in his general play. There has been the slightly underhanded shading that has given me pause for thought, but I am still pretty confident on him being town.

Regarding 'safe' posts, I actually feel a lot of your posts (including the one I'm quoting) are very much in the 'safe' category. I would much prefer to play in a more dynamic way, which I feel I'm normally capable of, but as I've said I'm finding it difficult in this current game state.

I don't disagree. I'm also not a flashy player.

The main thing that bothers me is how comfortable you are with your town reads. Neither DP/Dann did anything that I read as super scummy, but I can't help but feel that there may be some fire there between them. My reads will definitely end up swinging a lot further before the day ends.

With you it feels to me like you're just sold on people being town fairly easily and not at all uneasy with your reads after they're made.

[Grackaroni]

I'm slowly narrowing down my list.

I think Vivax is 0% mafia. I think he has some awareness of how to play to people's expectations, but after watching him in mafia chat several times as a host he's often just posting random things and giggling that he's still getting away with it. I've never seen him genuinely invested in the game as mafia in the way that he has been in this game. I'd be really shocked if he was mafia.

OutofOrder - I didn't think the way he was pushing me was likely as a scumy push since if he wanted to portray me as scummy/yeet me I'm sure he knows that there's much more effective ways of going about it than focusing on me not commenting on one of his posts. It doesn't seem like something he would manufacture as scum. If DP is convinced that OoO would not engage with Vivax like this as town then I am fine with town reading him.

[Grackaroni]

Why is Oats lock town?

@DarthPunk - I'm really curious about your reasons for this because I don't feel confident in reading Oats.

[Grackaroni]

Why is Oats lock town?

He is posting freely, he is analysing, he is pressuring, his views align with mine, and he is clearly getting bored at the lack of action and wants to see a flip lol which strikes me as very genuine and very townie/hard to fake as maf.

Which views specifically?

Other players are tired of the day and want to see a flip.

I'm very intent on this because part of me thinks that you're just making this read because of OutofOrder.

[Grackaroni]

Why is Oats lock town?

@DarthPunk - I'm really curious about your reasons for this because I don't feel confident in reading Oats.

I just replied.

but bonus reason" I read the entire last game we were town together on TL and I mislynched him and he seemed to post in a similar style here.

Unlucky timing on my part.

And of course you mean mis-yeeted!

[Grackaroni]

Why is Oats lock town?

He is posting freely, he is analysing, he is pressuring, his views align with mine, and he is clearly getting bored at the lack of action and wants to see a flip lol which strikes me as very genuine and very townie/hard to fake as maf.

Which views specifically?

Other players are tired of the day and want to see a flip.

I'm very intent on this because part of me thinks that you're just making this read because of OutofOrder.

Who was my tip top town in my first read post grack?

Ah I see that now.

[Grackaroni]

Grack now that I explained my Oates read can you please explain your inexplicable gob read.

There's not much behind it beyond what I've said. He seems to just throw out scum reads on people without any concern at all for how his posts may look in the thread.

He may be just giggling in the scum chat like Vivax for all I know. I've just never seen anyone play scum like this before.

[Grackaroni]

Grack now that I explained my Oates read can you please explain your inexplicable gob read.

There's not much behind it beyond what I've said. He seems to just throw out scum reads on people without any concern at all for how his posts may look in the thread.

He may be just giggling in the scum chat like Vivax for all I know. I've just never seen anyone play scum like this before.

So how do we test his thinking at all? Can he just do whatever and face no consequences for it?

Eh actually you're probably right. He should be pressured a lot more. These posts read like one of my attempts at bussing a teammate from 12 years ago. The trust me guys, I know dann just reads so heavily as "I'm on a team with dann and I will be vindicated."

Dannfloor is the mafia btw. I'm pretty sure. I'm not really feeling up to casing him rn.... because idk, i started doordashing to make extra money tbh. Taking up my time and enrgy.

I'm going to go over everything one more time before EoD though.

VOTE: Dannfloor

Ninja, Oatmasters. Hop on this to pressure Dann. Trust me on this one, i know dann.

I legit cannot remember why I thought dannfloor was scummy... I had a good reason why he was the right vote at work but i forgot it.

VOTE: DarthPunk

so im switching gears.

[Grackaroni]

Grack now that I explained my Oates read can you please explain your inexplicable gob read.

There's not much behind it beyond what I've said. He seems to just throw out scum reads on people without any concern at all for how his posts may look in the thread.

He may be just giggling in the scum chat like Vivax for all I know. I've just never seen anyone play scum like this before.

So how do we test his thinking at all? Can he just do whatever and face no consequences for it?

Eh actually you're probably right. He should be pressured a lot more. These posts read like one of my attempts at bussing a teammate from 12 years ago. The trust me guys, I know dann just reads so heavily as "I'm on a team with dann and I will be vindicated."

Dannfloor is the mafia btw. I'm pretty sure. I'm not really feeling up to casing him rn.... because idk, i started doordashing to make extra money tbh. Taking up my time and enrgy.

I'm going to go over everything one more time before EoD though.

VOTE: Dannfloor

Ninja, Oatmasters. Hop on this to pressure Dann. Trust me on this one, i know dann.

I legit cannot remember why I thought dannfloor was scummy... I had a good reason why he was the right vote at work but i forgot it.

VOTE: DarthPunk

so im switching gears.

So why did I have to push you into that position grack? cause it has been clear to me that I have been right this whole time.

One of my first posts was that he wouldn't be mafia from his thread entrance. I haven't been paying close attention to him and you directed my attention towards him.

[Grackaroni]

Grack now that I explained my Oates read can you please explain your inexplicable gob read.

There's not much behind it beyond what I've said. He seems to just throw out scum reads on people without any concern at all for how his posts may look in the thread.

He may be just giggling in the scum chat like Vivax for all I know. I've just never seen anyone play scum like this before.

So how do we test his thinking at all? Can he just do whatever and face no consequences for it?

Eh actually you're probably right. He should be pressured a lot more. These posts read like one of my attempts at bussing a teammate from 12 years ago. The trust me guys, I know dann just reads so heavily as "I'm on a team with dann and I will be vindicated."

Dannfloor is the mafia btw. I'm pretty sure. I'm not really feeling up to casing him rn.... because idk, i started doordashing to make extra money tbh. Taking up my time and enrgy.

I'm going to go over everything one more time before EoD though.

VOTE: Dannfloor

Ninja, Oatmasters. Hop on this to pressure Dann. Trust me on this one, i know dann.

I legit cannot remember why I thought dannfloor was scummy... I had a good reason why he was the right vote at work but i forgot it.

VOTE: DarthPunk

so im switching gears.

So why did I have to push you into that position grack? cause it has been clear to me that I have been right this whole time.

One of my first posts was that he wouldn't be mafia from his thread entrance. I haven't been paying close attention to him and you directed my attention towards him.

I know you said that, but honestly almost every post he makes is jarring in how ??? it is.

I wrote him off too quickly because his style is so different.

I'm on board with VOTE: gob. If he knows Dann as well as he says he does then he should be able to remember why he was scum reading him.

[Grackaroni]

Grack what are you doing cmon

I like it.

Sometimes I just get feelings that two people are partnered from interactions. Sometimes they're right. Sometimes they're totally baseless.

I'd definitely like to see more on this at the very least.

[Grackaroni]

I am less confident in hu tao being scum now that

they've revealed that they have been specifically trying to play around seeing who would town read them / defend them suspiciously

I never believe people when they say this.

That just implies that she's playing an entirely reactive game.

[Grackaroni]

I am less confident in hu tao being scum now that

they've revealed that they have been specifically trying to play around seeing who would town read them / defend them suspiciously

I never believe people when they say this.

That just implies that she's playing an entirely reactive game.

What‘s worse ? Dann believing that or Hu Tao claiming it ?

lol a worthy question.

Not something I'd considered but he cited as evidence her reacting to people's reads on her as supporting this defense. If she's not interested in looking for scum what else is she going to post about?

[Grackaroni]

I am less confident in hu tao being scum now that

they've revealed that they have been specifically trying to play around seeing who would town read them / defend them suspiciously

I never believe people when they say this.

That just implies that she's playing an entirely reactive game.

I've fake claimed doctor as VT before. I do unorthodox things. That's the best way to catch scum.

That's nothing. I once lynched a cop that led an elim on a townie based off a red check that they made up as the real cop. We lost that game.

[Grackaroni]

I am less confident in hu tao being scum now that

they've revealed that they have been specifically trying to play around seeing who would town read them / defend them suspiciously

I never believe people when they say this.

That just implies that she's playing an entirely reactive game.

I've fake claimed doctor as VT before. I do unorthodox things. That's the best way to catch scum.

That's nothing. I once lynched a cop that led an elim on a townie based off a red check that they made up as the real cop. We lost that game.

You once whatted a cop?

I thought I had that one too by swapping elim in part of it.

[Grackaroni]

Vivax is basically already green checked to me, so Hu Tao jumping on Vivax as trying to avoid looking bad for being a part of her wagon as her main contribution in the game reads quite scummy to me.

[Grackaroni]

VOTE: Hu Tao

[Grackaroni]

Does Gob explain the reasoning behind his posts in other games?

I saw people saying that he's obvious when he plays scum. I was hoping to at least get some response from him but he just posted 'Im mafia with x, y, and z instead!

[Grackaroni]

Also, are people actually falling for Hu Tao's dog-ate-my-homework-esque excuse that they were intentionally acting scummy as a feint? As a town I feel like a legitimate contemplation of that strategy would lead you to realize how much of a terrible idea it is in like 2 seconds.

It seems as if it is the TL players and you who think she is obv scum vs everyone else who thinks we are idiots/mafia

What's a TL player? Town Lean? Are you not a town-lean player? Town lean according to who?

And I still never found out who "Rayn" is either.

Rayn is the player OoO from the forum tl.net

[Grackaroni]

And who is "our"? Am I the only one here who doesn't know what Team Liquid is?

Me/Vivax/DarthPunk/OutofOrder/Oatsmaster.

[Grackaroni]

And who is "our"? Am I the only one here who doesn't know what Team Liquid is?

TL players:
DP
Grack
Oats
Outoforder
Vivax

Basically, the top 4 highest postcounts + grack.

Rude

[Grackaroni]

And who is "our"? Am I the only one here who doesn't know what Team Liquid is?

TL players:
DP
Grack
Oats
Outoforder
Vivax

Basically, the top 4 highest postcounts + grack.

Rude

Where is your head at grack? Have you caught up to the thread?

Yeah I'm caught up.

I'm mostly clueless. I have a lot of question marks and not a lot of confidence that I'll be able to resolve those question marks.

Town:
Vivax
Oatsmaster

Town Lean

Ninja
OutofOrder

Null

DarthPunk
Dannflor
LucaBlight
Dunnstral
Roden
Naerys

Scum Lean

Gob
Hu Tao

[Grackaroni]

I think I'm e-2 now

you going to post that other game or not?

It's locked so it's hard to post but you can see in my iso. I tell naerys that I'm sus about her reason for town reading me cause I can see why others think I'm scummy.

Yes I was town.

viewtopic.php?p=13963126#p13963126

Yeah ok, I really don't think that is the same tho.

Yeah okay. it literally shows what I proved that I can agree with people who think I'm scummy when I'm town

I don't think that's weird. I agreed with Luca's post on me and at the same time feel he's guilty of the same.

[Grackaroni]

Vivax is basically already green checked to me, so Hu Tao jumping on Vivax as trying to avoid looking bad for being a part of her wagon as her main contribution in the game reads quite scummy to me.

[Grackaroni]

And who is "our"? Am I the only one here who doesn't know what Team Liquid is?

TL players:
DP
Grack
Oats
Outoforder
Vivax

Basically, the top 4 highest postcounts + grack.

Rude

Where is your head at grack? Have you caught up to the thread?

Yeah I'm caught up.

I'm mostly clueless. I have a lot of question marks and not a lot of confidence that I'll be able to resolve those question marks.

Town:
Vivax
Oatsmaster

Town Lean

Ninja
OutofOrder

Null

DarthPunk
Dannflor
LucaBlight
Dunnstral
Roden
Naerys

Scum Lean

Gob
Hu Tao

Is this in order? can you give some brief explanations.

Really I thought you would have got more out of the dann/dp/luca situation than a bunch of null reads tbh.

Why am I null when I have pushed your number 1 and number 2 scum reads?

No if it were up to me that conversation would have ended after 1 or 2 posts rather than 4-5 pages.

If those reads are actually right then you will rise into the town group. I wasn't very interested in your Dann case based off him pushing/backing off of you and I'm weary that you are not coming off as townie to the rest of the players as you usually do as town.

[Grackaroni]

Do you think Luca could be scum?

Absolutely.

[Grackaroni]

And who is "our"? Am I the only one here who doesn't know what Team Liquid is?

TL players:
DP
Grack
Oats
Outoforder
Vivax

Basically, the top 4 highest postcounts + grack.

Rude

Where is your head at grack? Have you caught up to the thread?

Yeah I'm caught up.

I'm mostly clueless. I have a lot of question marks and not a lot of confidence that I'll be able to resolve those question marks.

Town:
Vivax
Oatsmaster

Town Lean

Ninja
OutofOrder

Null

DarthPunk
Dannflor
LucaBlight
Dunnstral
Roden
Naerys

Scum Lean

Gob
Hu Tao

Is this in order? can you give some brief explanations.

Really I thought you would have got more out of the dann/dp/luca situation than a bunch of null reads tbh.

Why am I null when I have pushed your number 1 and number 2 scum reads?

No if it were up to me that conversation would have ended after 1 or 2 posts rather than 4-5 pages.

If those reads are actually right then you will rise into the town group. I wasn't very interested in your Dann case based off him pushing/backing off of you and I'm weary that

you are not coming off as townie to the rest of the players as you usually do as town.

Wait, do you think I am usually universally town read as town grack?

Have you even been eliminated as town in the games that I've hosted? I legitimately don't remember but my gut says no.

In this game you're being placed on the same level as me by lots of people lol. (Funniest thing to me was OutofOrder building me up as a threat that if I'm not eliminated early I'll slip through to the end.)

[Grackaroni]

Vivax is basically already green checked to me, so Hu Tao jumping on Vivax as trying to avoid looking bad for being a part of her wagon as her main contribution in the game reads quite scummy to me.

Ah okay. So basically because you think vivax is town, it's warping your view.

So from my point of view, if vivax is scum wouldn't it be possible for him to soft defend me as town if he thinks I'm going to be eliminated anyway?

He hyper-reacts to stimuli.

I really strongly believe that I'm able to read him from a long history of playing with him and as naive as it sounds he's posted that I get him in the thread as well.

For me you were in the same spot where you placed me in your list post (Grack who?). You weren't really involved with the game prior to this push, and knowing that the push and the reasoning behind it is wrong is enough for me to move you from null to scum lean.

[Grackaroni]

Is DarthPunk a very good player?

Yeah I think he may be one of the strongest on the site.

[Grackaroni]

it's kinda wild to have roden at null lol

Is this because of the power-role claim? Because I don't know how things work here but I'm not going to read anything into that yet. From what I saw the roles are not public.

[Grackaroni]

And who is "our"? Am I the only one here who doesn't know what Team Liquid is?

TL players:
DP
Grack
Oats
Outoforder
Vivax

Basically, the top 4 highest postcounts + grack.

Rude

Where is your head at grack? Have you caught up to the thread?

Yeah I'm caught up.

I'm mostly clueless. I have a lot of question marks and not a lot of confidence that I'll be able to resolve those question marks.

Town:
Vivax
Oatsmaster

Town Lean

Ninja
OutofOrder

Null

DarthPunk
Dannflor
LucaBlight
Dunnstral
Roden
Naerys

Scum Lean

Gob
Hu Tao

Is this in order? can you give some brief explanations.

Really I thought you would have got more out of the dann/dp/luca situation than a bunch of null reads tbh.

Why am I null when I have pushed your number 1 and number 2 scum reads?

No if it were up to me that conversation would have ended after 1 or 2 posts rather than 4-5 pages.

If those reads are actually right then you will rise into the town group. I wasn't very interested in your Dann case based off him pushing/backing off of you and I'm weary that

you are not coming off as townie to the rest of the players as you usually do as town.

Wait, do you think I am usually universally town read as town grack?

Have you even been eliminated as town in the games that I've hosted? I legitimately don't remember but my gut says no.

In this game you're being placed on the same level as me by lots of people lol. (Funniest thing to me was OutofOrder building me up as a threat that if I'm not eliminated early I'll slip through to the end.)

Im hard to lynch, but I tend to get into huge arguments with active players, like marv, koshi, rayn and get called scum a lot. then scum tend to jump on at some point,and fail to get off when they should. It's my number one scum hunting tactic.

I struggled in obs last game so much because most of my reads are generated through conflict and pressure.

I think you should know this tho.

I think more what tends to happen is that you and those players aren't even on the table for day 1 and then arguments between you guys blow up in the mid-game.

I really don't care though. You're not likely to be yeeted today and you know it.

[Grackaroni]

Forgive me but the thread is long and it's too much for me to keep track.

DP are you scum reading Luca?

[Grackaroni]

Forgive me but the thread is long and it's too much for me to keep track.

DP are you scum reading Luca?

Yes.

I kind of want to start a wagon on him then if all 3 of us are already suspecting him. I just don't trust him.

Spoiler:

I am more amicable and diplomatic as mafia. I rarely take risks. I think if I had to pick my mafia version for this game it would be much more similar to how Luca Blight plays.
Maybe I should scumread him after all.

I can get behind this read.

Luca's posts are all very logical but there's something that feels off about it to me. He posts a light suspicion of Dann and then says that Dann is clear town after seeing his first case. Similarly he posts some things concerning him about DP/OoO, but then comes around pretty quickly to both of them being townie. He's not at all worried that a stronger player could have rolled mafia and his posts just feel rather safe.

I just don't see Dann's play as coming from scum at all, no matter how good he might be at playing scum. Just about every move he has made since his case on ninja has reflected my own reactions upon reading through. If he actually is scum then fair play, it's a masterful performance and he deserves it.

Outoforder seemed very town in his sorting of me earlier and in his general play. There has been the slightly underhanded shading that has given me pause for thought, but I am still pretty confident on him being town.

Regarding 'safe' posts, I actually feel a lot of your posts (including the one I'm quoting) are very much in the 'safe' category. I would much prefer to play in a more dynamic way, which I feel I'm normally capable of, but as I've said I'm finding it difficult in this current game state.

does anyone have a strong read on grackaroni at all

Not super strong but he's a lean town for me

Why

I just scrolled through his ISO

And idk there is nothing *scummy* exactly but nothing that makes me want to town read him

I feel similarly. I like his tone and reasonableness, but he has played it safe for the most part. The way he announced his suspicion on me felt a little like he was dipping his toe into the water and afraid of getting bitten.

I feel like I'm very much on the same page as Dann and Ninja at the moment and will likely vote along with them. I'm happy to vote any of the following: Dunn, Grack, Naerys, Hu Tao. Maybe Gob too? At this point it's an unreadable slot for me.

He just kept leaving me in a group of players that need to be 'looked into further' throughout the phase and the way he goes about pushing me is exactly like what he accuses me of. Maybe we're just too similar to each other but I'm getting bad feelings. I think at least when I made my post against him it was not the thread sentiment.

VOTE: Luca Blight

[Grackaroni]

You're asking for reads when I just posted reads.

I was trying to engage with you about the game when you are close to being yeeted. You really didn't seem to want to engage.

Funny. Grack says he scumreads me for being engaged when I have pressure, you say you scumread me for not being engaged when I have pressure. I can never win.

No it's not that. I just thought you were a non-factor for most of the game.

[Grackaroni]

Grack, thoughts on Dunn?

You're the one that meta'd him. To me he's just disengaged from the game.

If you're solid that his town game is different from this one then I will go there.

[Grackaroni]

I always wish OOO was around when he is not around.

He gets legitimately busy though. If he had the time he'd be here.

[Grackaroni]

Okay. And to clarify. Since there are new people to the site. Is there any reason I would get a type of guilty on you last night that you would need to explain for?

Nope.

[Grackaroni]

The suspense is killing me lol

Same lol. I did a quick sweep through her ISO to try to see who she may have wanted to check.

My bet from her posts is Oats, but that'd make me bad for copying OutofOrder/DP's read on him.

[Grackaroni]

The suspense is killing me lol

My bet from her posts is Oats, but that'd make me bad for copying OutofOrder/DP's read on him.

Why would you be be bad?

I put you as a top town read since you were active and reading through people's games to make meta reads + OutofOrder/DP both reading you as lock town.

We'll see what comes out though I'm just speculating baselessly.

[Grackaroni]

Damn the aesthetics, I think it‘s Dp, Grack and Luca

That would be a cool team.

[Grackaroni]

That's great, but like, why would we yeet anyone other than whoever Hu Tao mentions today?

Obviously we need to know if they are lying, and if they are, we yeet Hu Tao next, which I'm sure Hu Tao is well aware of, thus they wouldn't just make this up.

I see no reason to doubt Hu Tao here and don't plan on focusing on anyone other than whoever they bring up today.

Really depends on their claim, I’m also not a fan of the claim being done so early in the day

lol then why did you start by posting 'alright let's goooooo'

Your first reaction to many things in this game has been to call them terrible.

[Grackaroni]

If you think it's bad not to wait until later in the phase to post about a check then I'd expect that to be your reaction outright.

[Grackaroni]

I mean we can still play the game lol, which is the whole point of waiting.

Vivax chaos ness feels more contrived now especially because he had that section mid day 1 with ooo where he was completely reasonable

I can see why he believes it though.

Dp/me/Luca is a spicy team. I think he views me/DP pushing for Luca near the end of the day and Luca coming back on around the same time to defend as a way for all of us to distance from each other.

[Grackaroni]

I mean we can still play the game lol, which is the whole point of waiting.

Vivax chaos ness feels more contrived now especially because he had that section mid day 1 with ooo where he was completely reasonable

I can see why he believes it though.

Dp/me/Luca is a spicy team. I think he views me/DP pushing for Luca near the end of the day and Luca coming back on around the same time to defend as a way for all of us to distance from each other.

It’s not a reasonable thing to open up with though, like the only person he can yeet is Luca

So he has a theory and he's excited.

If I were scum I think that'd actually be my most likely team based off my interactions. The problem is I'm not scum.

[Grackaroni]

I mean we can still play the game lol, which is the whole point of waiting.

Vivax chaos ness feels more contrived now especially because he had that section mid day 1 with ooo where he was completely reasonable

I can see why he believes it though.

Dp/me/Luca is a spicy team. I think he views me/DP pushing for Luca near the end of the day and Luca coming back on around the same time to defend as a way for all of us to distance from each other.

You broke the 1 rule of mafia. Agreeing with a post that called you scum

Not only once but twice actually!

[Grackaroni]

Watch it be another 24 hours before Luca shows up.

This is driving me fucking crazy! I honestly don't understand the point of waiting for everyone to chime in anyway.

I realized Oats was actually in her town reads.

I just saw a lot of questions with Oats near the end of the ISO.

[Grackaroni]

But yes I don’t think hu Tao should reveal

I'm not exactly sure what you are referring to here. Reveal their information, or reveal their role?

They have already revealed themselves as a power town, so why wouldn't they just go ahead and reveal what they know at that point?

There are reasons to not reveal. We shouldn't talk about them till later tho.

Well I'm gonna have to remember to ask you what those are in post-processing. Maybe I am just too much of a noob at this game but I feel like I've searched every corner of my brain and can't come up with a good reason why waiting on this reveal in this particular circumstance is helping anything.

People continue the phase normally and scum may reveal who they are pushing or people may seem like they're playing differently because they're afraid of spewing townies.

[Grackaroni]

Another example that Darth doesn't believe anything he says:

I've read through Dunn's Iso and there is literally nothing in there that makes me think he might be town. I actually thought I liked some of his posts just skimming through the game, but it really stands out how little he has done when reading his posts in isolation, mainly talking about theory and posting about things that aren't going to help progress the game in any meaningful way.

VOTE: Dunnstral

I'll get to some more Iso'ing soon.

This whole string of ISO post reeked of forgone conclusion Luca just went through and tried to find anything scummy to justify his vote instead of calling it what it is. A lurker vote.


I’m happy he spewed Dunn town tho.

It's time to go, Dunnstral is the way to go.

Im not getting off my reads just because you say so, I have legit reasons to yeet both of them.

theres at least 3 mafia :>
come to the dunn side

Fine.

UNVOTE: unvote

VOTE: Dunnstral

VOTE: Darth Punk

These two posts are a lot more damning than the case DP/OoO posted against Luca imo. DP is way too easily swayed to move his vote by OoO/Oats.

[Grackaroni]

Another example that Darth doesn't believe anything he says:

I've read through Dunn's Iso and there is literally nothing in there that makes me think he might be town. I actually thought I liked some of his posts just skimming through the game, but it really stands out how little he has done when reading his posts in isolation, mainly talking about theory and posting about things that aren't going to help progress the game in any meaningful way.

VOTE: Dunnstral

I'll get to some more Iso'ing soon.

This whole string of ISO post reeked of forgone conclusion Luca just went through and tried to find anything scummy to justify his vote instead of calling it what it is. A lurker vote.


I’m happy he spewed Dunn town tho.

It's time to go, Dunnstral is the way to go.

Im not getting off my reads just because you say so, I have legit reasons to yeet both of them.

theres at least 3 mafia :>
come to the dunn side

Fine.

UNVOTE: unvote

VOTE: Dunnstral

VOTE: Darth Punk

These two posts are a lot more damning than the case DP/OoO posted against Luca imo. DP is way too easily swayed to move his vote by OoO/Oats.

In fact, reading over these posts again, there's actually multiple layers of contradictions here.

There's the obvious one where DP is strongly scum reading Luca and says that the way Luca has tried to justify his vote on Dunnstral has spewed Dunnstral as town, but then he votes for Dunnstral anyway.

But there's also a more subtle contradiction. When voting for Dunnstral DP says that he has legit reasons to yeet Dunnstral, but in the previous post he was calling Luca scum for trying to justify his vote (on Dunnstral) when it's nothing more than a lurker yeet.

I think DP slipped because he wanted to stay buddied with Oats/OutofOrder.
VOTE: DarthPunk

[Grackaroni]

I have a hard time seeing DP being able to make these posts if he actually believes in what he's pushing.

[Grackaroni]

Another example that Darth doesn't believe anything he says:

I've read through Dunn's Iso and there is literally nothing in there that makes me think he might be town. I actually thought I liked some of his posts just skimming through the game, but it really stands out how little he has done when reading his posts in isolation, mainly talking about theory and posting about things that aren't going to help progress the game in any meaningful way.

VOTE: Dunnstral

I'll get to some more Iso'ing soon.

This whole string of ISO post reeked of forgone conclusion Luca just went through and tried to find anything scummy to justify his vote instead of calling it what it is. A lurker vote.


I’m happy he spewed Dunn town tho.

It's time to go, Dunnstral is the way to go.

Im not getting off my reads just because you say so, I have legit reasons to yeet both of them.

theres at least 3 mafia :>
come to the dunn side

Fine.

UNVOTE: unvote

VOTE: Dunnstral

VOTE: Darth Punk

These two posts are a lot more damning than the case DP/OoO posted against Luca imo. DP is way too easily swayed to move his vote by OoO/Oats.

In fact, reading over these posts again, there's actually multiple layers of contradictions here.

There's the obvious one where DP is strongly scum reading Luca and says that the way Luca has tried to justify his vote on Dunnstral has spewed Dunnstral as town, but then he votes for Dunnstral anyway.

But there's also a more subtle contradiction. When voting for Dunnstral DP says that he has legit reasons to yeet Dunnstral, but in the previous post he was calling Luca scum for trying to justify his vote (on Dunnstral) when it's nothing more than a lurker yeet.

I think DP slipped because he wanted to stay buddied with Oats/OutofOrder.
VOTE: DarthPunk

The only thing that bugs me here is how you assume that DP would need to buddy Oats.

I think OoO is a fairly easy townread while Oats isn‘t. Oats is a bit like me in that he does what he wants, so he can easily come across as estranged no matter the alignment.

I agree with that. I just meant that I think his vote was prompted by OoO and Oats pushing him to vote that way even though the vote is contrary to his earlier post.

From the way the rest of the players are posting in this game I don't believe that there are no tl players that are mafia.

I have felt that you/OutofOrder are interested in figuring out my alignment.

I haven't felt that from either Darthpunk or Oats

[Grackaroni]

I don't believe Ninja is ever mafia.

Hu Tao's guilty ploy at the start seems more like it comes from town and she followed up with reasonable conclusions based off of it rather than just trying to do it to make chaos.

[Grackaroni]

Also blown away by the character change from Gob.

I kind of agree with his thoughts on Dannflor. Dannflor started out like he wanted to be the town's leader and he's been fading away from that.

[Grackaroni]

DarthPunk / oatsmaster / Vivax / Dannflor

This is who we should lim today. I am leaning Dannfloor right now. Vivax I have liked some of their posts today. Oatsmasters has been consistent with his tone the entire game. He seems like a towny who has an off-putting tone, and when confronted with SRs, they double down instead of changing their tone.
DarthPunk I haven't like their posts as I explained before. I do like their Hu Tao vote today though.

Wait why do you say we should lim Oats and then write that he seems like a towny?

[Grackaroni]

I don't advocate anyone hammering early.

Give some time for OutofOrder to come in and start yelling at me, or maybe he will actually side with me.

[Grackaroni]

Post count does give an idea of how engaged everybody is.

TL posters can post quite a bit. OutofOrder had 700 posts in his last scum game. (around 14 real life days). DP will post a lot as either alignment. Oats I don't associate with having a large ISO but I haven't seen him play in years.

I usually host games, but when I do play I tend to be one of the least active posters.

[Grackaroni]

It’s honestly laughable that y’all will accept arguments like “he’s mean” over arguments like “his behavior is showing that he’s treating me as if he is arguing with someone that is on his side rather than someone that is trying to make him lose”

Which posts make you think that?

[Grackaroni]

I don't understand this conversation at all lol

[Grackaroni]

Well I can't argue the statistics, so I guess I'll have to jump into the cookie imbroglio.

[Grackaroni]

Are there any other reasons you think dp is mafia grack? Other than the flip onto dunn

That's the main thing I read that prompted my post. I didn't think DP/OutofOrder's case on Luca was that good and this seemed much more solid to me. I'm also not really feeling the Luca/Hu-Tao scum world.

I will admit I haven't been digging deeply into any ISOs.

[Grackaroni]

Bad idea to play mafia until 6am.
I'm gonna try to catch up after getting home from work and read whatever i can during the workday.

DID YOU TAKE THE COOKIES FROM THE COOKIE JAR?

[Grackaroni]

Are there any other reasons you think dp is mafia grack? Other than the flip onto dunn

That's the main thing I read that prompted my post. I didn't think DP/OutofOrder's case on Luca was that good

and this seemed much more solid to me. I'm also not really feeling the Luca/Hu-Tao scum world.

I will admit I haven't been digging deeply into any ISOs.

Can you explain to me why you don't think it was that good?

If I follow correctly your case starts with Ninja's large post:
499
Luca is blown away by her post and says that it reflects/contributed to his own thoughts citing her reads on Dunn/Gob/Vivax/You. Here I agree with you that it's easy for scum to see a big post and just quickly call it a town post while copying some of the reads.
773
OutofOrder points out 3 issues that he has with Ninja's post:
Ninja gave a read on Dann in a previous post that seemed to be based off his push on her while she was saying that she missed that post - something I found odd at the time as well.
OutofOrder does not believe that Ninja gave a good justification for town reading Luca - ok. I don't follow why he takes issues with her reasons for town reading Luca.
OutofOrder says something about confirmation bias regarding Ninja's read on him - something I don't understand.

None of these three things have anything to do with what Luca commented on in his own post, and none of them seem like they should stick out to him - especially since he was already town reading Dann.
793
Dunnstral also says that he doesn't understand/agree with any of the things OutofOrder was talking about regarding the flaws in Ninja's post, but that he agrees that it's easy for scum to say they fully agree with a big post and that there should be some disagreement.
798
Later in the game Luca pushes Dunnstral and as part of that push he argues that what OutofOrder said was not true because he actually did disagree with parts of Ninja's post when he talked about his read on Oats and that he thinks Dunnstral would be reading his posts more carefully if he was town.
2256
Now I've carefully read the posts in the order that you laid out in your case. Overall I don't see what I'm supposed to find from it. It seems to me that the biggest part of the case has to do with Luca not noticing the flaws in Ninja's post specific to OutofOrder, which I also don't see/agree with, and even Dunnstral disagrees with those flaws as well in the post that you quoted as evidence.

I am really not able to follow how this series of posts has lead to the heavily sensationalized narrative in the cases you wrote below, but after reading through it closely I don't think it's coming from a good place.

(DP's case for reference)
2264
2271

[Grackaroni]

Grack? do you think that OOO and I are scum together?

If not, why do you think OOO thought I had posted the best case in the game at the point he read it?

No I don't think you're scum together.

Because it's continuing on his own push based off his three issues that he thinks Luca should have with Ninja's post.

[Grackaroni]

That's pretty fucking poor form from grack, you can take him firmly out of my town read section based on that alone.

If you want to convince me why what you say is true go ahead, but at the moment you seem more concerned with shouting me down.

[Grackaroni]

Grackaroni can you explain to me why your case on DP makes him mafia?
Because i know if i was mafia i would definitely, in his position, get rid of (or try to) Luca rather than Dunn, since it has already been shown that Luca can and will articulate and at least tries to defend himself (aka has a higher chance of getting townread than Dunnstral). Just "he can continue pushing Luca D2 and that's why he joined Dunn lynch" is not good enough. DP is better than that, he would most likely look much better (being consistent) if he just kept his vote on Luca instead of swapping -- and he would most likely be able to make that prediction as mafia at EoD1.

I'm not going to argue over what I think the ideal play would be for DP to make as mafia. My only goal is to judge whether his posts make sense from a town point of view.

The confidence he feels in his case based off Luca 'lying' about whether the point about his post was good doesn't vibe with me. I could get behind Luca's Dunnstral vote as being a forced read and a bad justification for a vote, but then just write that outright in two sentences rather than writing out this whole history about Ninja's post as irrefutable evidence of Luca being scum and that Luca is trying to cover up this incontrovertible evidence. I feel the reasoning behind this has come almost entirely from you and is the kind of thing you would normally tend to tunnel on.

I realized while re-reading through DP's ISO that I misinterpreted his vote post. In his post he said he had legit reasons to yeet both of them when replying to you asking him to yeet Dunnstral, but he was actually referring to Hu Tao/Luca in the post before that, so that refutes the largest part of the contradiction that I wrote about yesterday.

[Grackaroni]

Grack and vivax saying I do t believe in my read or whatever.

This is me being heavily restrained in my interactions compared to what they are used to. (To be nice as a guest)

I think they are misreading that as lack of belief or whatever.

I don't think you've been as heavily restrained as you think you have.

[Grackaroni]

Grackaroni can you explain to me why your case on DP makes him mafia?
Because i know if i was mafia i would definitely, in his position, get rid of (or try to) Luca rather than Dunn, since it has already been shown that Luca can and will articulate and at least tries to defend himself (aka has a higher chance of getting townread than Dunnstral). Just "he can continue pushing Luca D2 and that's why he joined Dunn lynch" is not good enough. DP is better than that, he would most likely look much better (being consistent) if he just kept his vote on Luca instead of swapping -- and he would most likely be able to make that prediction as mafia at EoD1.

I'm not going to argue over what I think the ideal play would be for DP to make as mafia. My only goal is to judge whether his posts make sense from a town point of view.

The confidence he feels in his case based off Luca 'lying' about whether the point about his post was good doesn't vibe with me. I could get behind Luca's Dunnstral vote as being a forced read and a bad justification for a vote, but then just write that outright in two sentences rather than writing out this whole history about Ninja's post as irrefutable evidence of Luca being scum and that Luca is trying to cover up this incontrovertible evidence. I feel the reasoning behind this has come almost entirely from you and is the kind of thing you would normally tend to tunnel on.

I realized while re-reading through DP's ISO that I misinterpreted his vote post. In his post he said he had legit reasons to yeet both of them when replying to you asking him to yeet Dunnstral, but he was actually referring to Hu Tao/Luca in the post before that, so that refutes the largest part of the contradiction that I wrote about yesterday

.

Does this change your read.

As to the first part, my case was my own, I guess I didn't articulate it was well as OOO did. but it definately came from me, cause the dunn thing bothered me as soon as I saw it in the thread.

It does somewhat. I don't think you're the right person to vote off today.

UNVOTE:

[Grackaroni]

Grack and vivax saying I do t believe in my read or whatever.

This is me being heavily restrained in my interactions compared to what they are used to. (To be nice as a guest)

I think they are misreading that as lack of belief or whatever.

I don't think you've been as heavily restrained as you think you have.

well definitely not with you, but with the others I have.

I'm not bothered - it's just half the player base is saying this has been the most hostile unpleasant game that they've been a part of and you're like... you haven't seen anything yet!!!!

[Grackaroni]

Luca I think you should stop making the DP-case related posts. They're not going to lead anywhere and just flood out the thread at this point.

[Grackaroni]

Luca I think you should stop making the DP-case related posts. They're not going to lead anywhere and just flood out the thread at this point.

You mean Darth's case on me?

I was just responding to outoforder's long post, as I would be expected to. I just said that I'm going to prioritise Vivax from now, so as to not become tunnelled and to get a broader view of the game. I still haven't fully caught up, though, so I will respond to things as necessary.

I see I thought it was more response to DP and scanned over it.

[Grackaroni]

Getting too late for me. I'm going to try to put some work in to sort out Oats/Dann tomorrow since I know my effort is lackluster.

At it stands though I have a hard time seeing Gob not being mafia when comparing his play with the rest of the players in the game.

[Grackaroni]

I am just gonna blurt out everything i have thought about after yesterday. I've been able to follow the thread at work.

I think Luca vs DP is T/T. I am fairly certain of it. Both side's reasoning for other one being mafia makes sense (+ Grack on DP), but i don't think it makes either of them mafia. The more i read Luca's posts i think it just how he posts, rather than that he is trying to deceive. It looks annoying to me (i mean this with no offence) because from what i know appearing certain is a way you get the people you want on the chopping block. He did appear certain though lately, when he was willing to go 1v1 against DP, and that looked townie to me, because i don't think he thinks he can win that argument.

DP did some weird shit at the end of D1, yes. I still don't think it makes him mafia because he simply just doesn't have to do that. If there is a choice of getting rid of either Luca or Dunn D1 for him, what's the point of having a player who is defending themselves to death alive D2 over a fairly passive player? Again, being wrong doesn't make anyone mafia, and the misyeet could be easily blamed on someone else -- for instance on people who joined the wagon without much reasoning (as Luca himself said, almost everyone has thought he is scum in this game).

I also believe Ninja is town. This is more of a tone read than based on content, because i don't understand most of her point by point arguments (no offence again). I also can't place her in any mafia team in based on my reads.

Another person i think is town is Naerys. It's very hard for me to explain why i townread her. It's basically -- especially now during D2, whenever she posts it seems like there is some sort of thought going on in her head. Although i tend to have no idea what that is at each point, i think it's townie lol. ^^

I also think Grack is town. This is the weakest town read i have. I don't think he has done much and yeah technically he could be mafia for sure, i just don't think he is since every once in a while he comes in with a super smart comment or observation.

That leaves me with Dann/Oats/Vivax/gob/Hu Tao.

I have absolutely no idea what to think of Hu Tao. Every other time i read i think she is town and every other time i think she is mafia. I think it is slightly more likely to be town for the stupid gambit at the start of the day. I simply don't know what there is to achieve, if Luca is town OR if Luca is mafia (since basically that was the ONLY assumed wagon start D2 and Dunn flipping town)????

gob is most likely mafia for what i said.

Dann has faded off and i feel like that's strange. I need to look further into his reads on day 2 and mirror them to the fact he said he is purposely stepping down from trying to be a town leader. I don't understand why someone who is able to lead the town would not want to lead the town. If people are pushing his scumreads, then i guess that can make sense. If not, then there is a problem in what he's doing. I myself have found this day phase quite all over the place and there has been not so good direction or agreement between people. That's why i find his play weird this phase, and statistically scum can't keep up with "townie play" the more the game goes on.

Oats and Vivax i have to completely reread, as there is probably at least one mafia in those people. I haven't done that yet, but i am planning to start this evening.

Can we please now use the time we have and not yeet anyone when we have like 3-4 day self in the phase????
At least give people time to play friday evening and saturday, since that's the time i can acually be active.

I've been working off this post as a basis of a rethink on the game.

Definitely a good post. I largely agree with it. It's also what I look for from OutofOrder as town and what I think he often avoids doing as mafia because he knows he can keep his options open without risking being yeeted.

[Grackaroni]

I'm seeing scum equity between Gob/Oats. Oats started off by attacking Gob for his reasoning at the start of the game and Gob interacts with Oats more than any other player.

After re-reading a bit this post stuck out to me:

I legit cannot remember why I thought dannfloor was scummy... I had a good reason why he was the right vote at work but i forgot it.

VOTE: DarthPunk

so im switching gears.

Okay so I’m trying to rationalize this vote as mafia!gob

Assuming mafia!dann
This is a quick distraction play to discredit dp and sow some confusion, it’s extremely basic and likely to break down under more intense scrutiny especially once dann flips.

Assuming town!dann
I just don’t see any reason gob swaps here, it’s super striking and he’s been doing a good job of floating around without attracting too much suspicion and he votes the 1 person that thinks he’s mafia.

Idkkkkk I mean maybe I’m giving gob too much credit

This post approaches Gob from a weird angle to me. I don't think Oats was scum reading Gob at the time but his default approach is to consider whether it would make sense for Gob to make his vote as mafia based off the two possibilities for Dan's alignment. This seems like a very unnatural approach to me. The more normal reaction imo is just to try to get more information.

At the same time as Oats make this post DP is questioning me on my read on Gob, which leads to me voting Gob to try to get an answer for his Dann posts and Oats reacted like my vote was ridiculous.

Grack what are you doing cmon

At the end Gob never even responded about Dann he just came back into the thread and claimed mafia.

[Grackaroni]

oats, thoughts on a gob lim?

I’m pretty happy with a gob lim. Dude clearly has the ability to play and saying that he’s been playing more today shows a bit too much self awareness to be town I think. There’s no reason he should’ve played the way he did day 1 as town imo

I do also agree with Dannflor on this post. It stuck out to me as well as I was reading through.

[Grackaroni]

I am just gonna blurt out everything i have thought about after yesterday. I've been able to follow the thread at work.

I think Luca vs DP is T/T. I am fairly certain of it. Both side's reasoning for other one being mafia makes sense (+ Grack on DP), but i don't think it makes either of them mafia. The more i read Luca's posts i think it just how he posts, rather than that he is trying to deceive. It looks annoying to me (i mean this with no offence) because from what i know appearing certain is a way you get the people you want on the chopping block. He did appear certain though lately, when he was willing to go 1v1 against DP, and that looked townie to me, because i don't think he thinks he can win that argument.

DP did some weird shit at the end of D1, yes. I still don't think it makes him mafia because he simply just doesn't have to do that. If there is a choice of getting rid of either Luca or Dunn D1 for him, what's the point of having a player who is defending themselves to death alive D2 over a fairly passive player? Again, being wrong doesn't make anyone mafia, and the misyeet could be easily blamed on someone else -- for instance on people who joined the wagon without much reasoning (as Luca himself said, almost everyone has thought he is scum in this game).

I also believe Ninja is town. This is more of a tone read than based on content, because i don't understand most of her point by point arguments (no offence again). I also can't place her in any mafia team in based on my reads.

Another person i think is town is Naerys. It's very hard for me to explain why i townread her. It's basically -- especially now during D2, whenever she posts it seems like there is some sort of thought going on in her head. Although i tend to have no idea what that is at each point, i think it's townie lol. ^^

I also think Grack is town. This is the weakest town read i have. I don't think he has done much and yeah technically he could be mafia for sure, i just don't think he is since every once in a while he comes in with a super smart comment or observation.

That leaves me with Dann/Oats/Vivax/gob/Hu Tao.

I have absolutely no idea what to think of Hu Tao. Every other time i read i think she is town and every other time i think she is mafia. I think it is slightly more likely to be town for the stupid gambit at the start of the day. I simply don't know what there is to achieve, if Luca is town OR if Luca is mafia (since basically that was the ONLY assumed wagon start D2 and Dunn flipping town)????

gob is most likely mafia for what i said.

Dann has faded off and i feel like that's strange. I need to look further into his reads on day 2 and mirror them to the fact he said he is purposely stepping down from trying to be a town leader. I don't understand why someone who is able to lead the town would not want to lead the town. If people are pushing his scumreads, then i guess that can make sense. If not, then there is a problem in what he's doing. I myself have found this day phase quite all over the place and there has been not so good direction or agreement between people. That's why i find his play weird this phase, and statistically scum can't keep up with "townie play" the more the game goes on.

Oats and Vivax i have to completely reread, as there is probably at least one mafia in those people. I haven't done that yet, but i am planning to start this evening.

Can we please now use the time we have and not yeet anyone when we have like 3-4 day self in the phase????
At least give people time to play friday evening and saturday, since that's the time i can acually be active.

I've been working off this post as a basis of a rethink on the game.

Definitely a good post.

I largely agree with it

. It's also what I look for from OutofOrder as town and what I think he often avoids doing as mafia because he knows he can keep his options open without risking being yeeted.

But doesn't this just mean you can agree and or disagree with anything about it at any time?

Ninja town read is correct.

His Naerys read seems reasonable as well and doesn't seem like something made up.

He's definitely right at the very least that Luca/you are not the right idea for today's yeet.

Somehow he even has me in the town list as well.

[Grackaroni]

oats, thoughts on a gob lim?

I’m pretty happy with a gob lim. Dude clearly has the ability to play and saying that he’s been playing more today shows a bit too much self awareness to be town I think. There’s no reason he should’ve played the way he did day 1 as town imo

I do also agree with Dannflor on this post. It stuck out to me as well as I was reading through.

Explain please?

I think for me it's that you were more hedging on Gob the previous day saying that you've seen many types of players like Gob flip town in the past but here when you're put on the spot by DP to make a decision you respond decisively that he couldn't have played day 1 the way he has as town.

I'd be curious if you read through his past games at all. I haven't but I know you've been looking through other players' games.

[Grackaroni]

At the same time as Oats make this post DP is questioning me on my read on Gob, which leads to me voting Gob to try to get an answer for his Dann posts and Oats reacted like my vote was ridiculous.

Gob was never dying there, which was the intent I placed on your vote

Could at least have put some pressure on him to give reasons behind his votes.

[Grackaroni]

I'm seeing scum equity between Gob/Oats. Oats started off by attacking Gob for his reasoning at the start of the game and Gob interacts with Oats more than any other player.

After re-reading a bit this post stuck out to me:

I legit cannot remember why I thought dannfloor was scummy... I had a good reason why he was the right vote at work but i forgot it.

VOTE: DarthPunk

so im switching gears.

Okay so I’m trying to rationalize this vote as mafia!gob

Assuming mafia!dann
This is a quick distraction play to discredit dp and sow some confusion, it’s extremely basic and likely to break down under more intense scrutiny especially once dann flips.

Assuming town!dann
I just don’t see any reason gob swaps here, it’s super striking and he’s been doing a good job of floating around without attracting too much suspicion and he votes the 1 person that thinks he’s mafia.

Idkkkkk I mean maybe I’m giving gob too much credit

This post approaches Gob from a weird angle to me. I don't think Oats was scum reading Gob at the time but his default approach is to consider whether it would make sense for Gob to make his vote as mafia based off the two possibilities for Dan's alignment. This seems like a very unnatural approach to me. The more normal reaction imo is just to try to get more information.

At the same time as Oats make this post DP is questioning me on my read on Gob, which leads to me voting Gob to try to get an answer for his Dann posts and Oats reacted like my vote was ridiculous.

Grack what are you doing cmon

At the end Gob never even responded about Dann he just came back into the thread and claimed mafia.

I also want to follow up on this.

The ending of Oats' post seems crafted/unnatural as well with the 'idkkkkkk i mean maybe I'm giving gob too much credit'.

This is a very big tell for me. If a post seems to be scum-motivated/seems like it's coming from an unnatural place and at the same time utilizes stilted language/unnatural speech, very likely it's coming from scum.

[Grackaroni]

I am just gonna blurt out everything i have thought about after yesterday. I've been able to follow the thread at work.

I think Luca vs DP is T/T. I am fairly certain of it. Both side's reasoning for other one being mafia makes sense (+ Grack on DP), but i don't think it makes either of them mafia. The more i read Luca's posts i think it just how he posts, rather than that he is trying to deceive. It looks annoying to me (i mean this with no offence) because from what i know appearing certain is a way you get the people you want on the chopping block. He did appear certain though lately, when he was willing to go 1v1 against DP, and that looked townie to me, because i don't think he thinks he can win that argument.

DP did some weird shit at the end of D1, yes. I still don't think it makes him mafia because he simply just doesn't have to do that. If there is a choice of getting rid of either Luca or Dunn D1 for him, what's the point of having a player who is defending themselves to death alive D2 over a fairly passive player? Again, being wrong doesn't make anyone mafia, and the misyeet could be easily blamed on someone else -- for instance on people who joined the wagon without much reasoning (as Luca himself said, almost everyone has thought he is scum in this game).

I also believe Ninja is town. This is more of a tone read than based on content, because i don't understand most of her point by point arguments (no offence again). I also can't place her in any mafia team in based on my reads.

Another person i think is town is Naerys. It's very hard for me to explain why i townread her. It's basically -- especially now during D2, whenever she posts it seems like there is some sort of thought going on in her head. Although i tend to have no idea what that is at each point, i think it's townie lol. ^^

I also think Grack is town. This is the weakest town read i have. I don't think he has done much and yeah technically he could be mafia for sure, i just don't think he is since every once in a while he comes in with a super smart comment or observation.

That leaves me with Dann/Oats/Vivax/gob/Hu Tao.

I have absolutely no idea what to think of Hu Tao. Every other time i read i think she is town and every other time i think she is mafia. I think it is slightly more likely to be town for the stupid gambit at the start of the day. I simply don't know what there is to achieve, if Luca is town OR if Luca is mafia (since basically that was the ONLY assumed wagon start D2 and Dunn flipping town)????

gob is most likely mafia for what i said.

Dann has faded off and i feel like that's strange. I need to look further into his reads on day 2 and mirror them to the fact he said he is purposely stepping down from trying to be a town leader. I don't understand why someone who is able to lead the town would not want to lead the town. If people are pushing his scumreads, then i guess that can make sense. If not, then there is a problem in what he's doing. I myself have found this day phase quite all over the place and there has been not so good direction or agreement between people. That's why i find his play weird this phase, and statistically scum can't keep up with "townie play" the more the game goes on.

Oats and Vivax i have to completely reread, as there is probably at least one mafia in those people. I haven't done that yet, but i am planning to start this evening.

Can we please now use the time we have and not yeet anyone when we have like 3-4 day self in the phase????
At least give people time to play friday evening and saturday, since that's the time i can acually be active.

I've been working off this post as a basis of a rethink on the game.

Definitely a good post.

I largely agree with it

. It's also what I look for from OutofOrder as town and what I think he often avoids doing as mafia because he knows he can keep his options open without risking being yeeted.

But doesn't this just mean you can agree and or disagree with anything about it at any time?

Ninja town read is correct.

His Naerys read seems reasonable as well and doesn't seem like something made up.

He's definitely right at the very least that

Luca/you are not the right idea for today's yeet.

Somehow he even has me in the town list as well.

why you hedging here, can you just give your Luca/dp read right now?

I don't even care honestly.

I'm feeling pretty confident I've largely solved the game with Gob/Oats after my last post. I've had success yeeting scum like this in the past.

Most likely OutofOrder is right and it's TvT.

[Grackaroni]

Ngl, I would be surprised if grack got more mafia than town with that tell

Lol I grossly exaggerate my success rate.

My recollection is one game where I spotted a post that seemed to be coming from a scum-motivation that was at the same time using stilted language.

1/1 still equals 100% though. Great statistics.

[Grackaroni]

You know Oats I'm going to be laughing my ass off if my random hunch that Hu Tao red-checked you caused you to fumble your response to her question making Dann push you.

[Grackaroni]

I'd assume if Gob is mafia the team has realized by now that he's not going to live through to the endgame.

[Grackaroni]

grack can you explain why you are so sure on Ninja!town?

Cause I have been thinking about that slot a lot and I am not so sure.

People are taking issue with her reasoning being inconsistent (ruling out active players as mafia at some points and moving them into teams in other points), but the reality is that she's just posting her thought process way more than she needs to as mafia and changing her reads more than she needs to as mafia. To me she seems like an open book.

There's also posts I liked where she was complaining that she put a lot of effort into analyzing the vote counts from the previous day and that nobody bothered to respond to her posts about it. I think that's a very townie thing to do.

[Grackaroni]

grack can you explain why you are so sure on Ninja!town?

Cause I have been thinking about that slot a lot and I am not so sure.

People are taking issue with her reasoning being inconsistent (ruling out active players as mafia at some points and moving them into teams in other points), but the reality is that she's just posting her thought process way more than she needs to as mafia and changing her reads more than she needs to as mafia. To me she seems like an open book.

There's also posts I liked where she was complaining that she put a lot of effort into analyzing the vote counts from the previous day and that nobody bothered to respond to her posts about it. I think that's a very townie thing to do.

I think the bolded is just easy to fake for some people though.

She doesn't come off to me as super experienced with mafia in a way that she could pull this off as scum. I haven't seen many people that are able to pull off this level of activity and openness as scum.

[Grackaroni]

Grack are you super busy IRL?

Not really. I'm just not looking to sink more than a few hours a night into the game.

[Grackaroni]

I'm seeing scum equity between Gob/Oats. Oats started off by attacking Gob for his reasoning at the start of the game and Gob interacts with Oats more than any other player.

After re-reading a bit this post stuck out to me:

I legit cannot remember why I thought dannfloor was scummy... I had a good reason why he was the right vote at work but i forgot it.

VOTE: DarthPunk

so im switching gears.

Okay so I’m trying to rationalize this vote as mafia!gob

Assuming mafia!dann
This is a quick distraction play to discredit dp and sow some confusion, it’s extremely basic and likely to break down under more intense scrutiny especially once dann flips.

Assuming town!dann
I just don’t see any reason gob swaps here, it’s super striking and he’s been doing a good job of floating around without attracting too much suspicion and he votes the 1 person that thinks he’s mafia.

Idkkkkk I mean maybe I’m giving gob too much credit

This post approaches Gob from a weird angle to me. I don't think Oats was scum reading Gob at the time but his default approach is to consider whether it would make sense for Gob to make his vote as mafia based off the two possibilities for Dan's alignment. This seems like a very unnatural approach to me. The more normal reaction imo is just to try to get more information.

At the same time as Oats make this post DP is questioning me on my read on Gob, which leads to me voting Gob to try to get an answer for his Dann posts and Oats reacted like my vote was ridiculous.

Grack what are you doing cmon

At the end Gob never even responded about Dann he just came back into the thread and claimed mafia.

I also want to follow up on this.

The ending of Oats' post seems crafted/unnatural as well with the 'idkkkkkk i mean maybe I'm giving gob too much credit'.

This is a very big tell for me. If a post seems to be scum-motivated/seems like it's coming from an unnatural place and at the same time utilizes stilted language/unnatural speech, very likely it's coming from scum.

I'm much more confident on this than I usually am with reads, so I would like to hear opinions on it.

[Grackaroni]

I've got to start showing up during the non-Australian time zones.

[Grackaroni]

I wonder how mind blown Vivax will be at the end game after we successfully pulled off that distancing today after he caught you/me/Luca at the start of the day.

[Grackaroni]

I just like to live rent-free in his head.

[Grackaroni]

How close are we to yeeting someone?

[Grackaroni]

How close are we to yeeting someone?

Wait you didn‘t even vote.

That's why I'm asking lol.

[Grackaroni]

How close are we to yeeting someone?

Wait you didn‘t even vote.

That's why I'm asking lol.

What‘s your current read on Hu Tao and Naerys ?

UNVOTE:

I skimmed through Naerys and she hasn't posted anything interesting to me.

If you're really keen on an answer I will take some time and read through Hu-Tao as well, but she's not where I'm currently looking and doesn't seem to be where anyone else is looking either.

[Grackaroni]

I'm good with a hammer at any point. Nothing else I want to talk about today.

There is simply no way someone says this and after the flip says "all the people who voted for Dunn late have a high chance of being mafia".

I think some people view late joiners to wagons as scummier than the people that start wagons.

She's taking note of the people that joined onto wagons that were started by other people multiple times.

[Grackaroni]

Looking into the last people on the wagon was actually the same reaction by Gob as well, which made you make basically the same push. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a site-wide difference and that people generally look into the late joiners to wagons on this site. (Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken.)

[Grackaroni]

I'm actually thinking that Oats is scummier than Gob.

[Grackaroni]

Just an fyi for Gob - it's not super-flush ninja.

My name is also not Grankeroni, but I am flexible on that point.

[Grackaroni]

I think one thing that bothers me about oatsmaster's play is that he's spent a lot of time piggybacking off other people's pushes

I feel like he's spent a lot of time kinda adding on or backing up cases made by you and DP, but I can't remember a single push oatsmaster has made that's been entirely his own or at least truly started by himself, and that kinda sends off alarm bells because it doesn't seem like any of you TL guys have issues pushing things independently

so I'm worried he's scum hiding behind the forces of you / DP doin the dirty work for him

I'd feel a lot better about him if you could point to some independent pushes he's made probably

I think this is a quality read.

When Oats responded to this post he said that Dann forgot about Roden, but the Roden exchange started with Oats just calling people bad for relying on rvs and then Roden started pushing Oats as a scum read.

(Coincidentally I've also had success catching scum for entering in a game by repeatedly shitting on people's reasoning behind their reads without contributing any reads of their own.)

[Grackaroni]

There's a few things leading me this way. I still think Oats' reaction to Hu-Tao's claim was the most likely to be fake.

That's great, but like, why would we yeet anyone other than whoever Hu Tao mentions today?

Obviously we need to know if they are lying, and if they are, we yeet Hu Tao next, which I'm sure Hu Tao is well aware of, thus they wouldn't just make this up.

I see no reason to doubt Hu Tao here and don't plan on focusing on anyone other than whoever they bring up today.

Really depends on their claim, I’m also not a fan of the claim being done so early in the day

lol then why did you start by posting 'alright let's goooooo'

Your first reaction to many things in this game has been to call them terrible.

[Grackaroni]

I don't think Oats is close to being executed, but I'll take the heat from OutofOrder anyway if this goes wrong. I really want to see an execution at this point, and I'm pretty sure Oats is mafia.

VOTE: Oatsmaster

[Grackaroni]

I don't want to wait around for another 3 days for a flip.

[Grackaroni]

To be honest I think you're scared for the first time.

I was pushing you the previous night but I think you just assumed that Gob would go instead.

[Grackaroni]

I really think it's Oats.

I was pretty open that I was suspecting him yesterday and basically taunting him with some of my posts and these were his reactions:

Ngl, I would be surprised if grack got more mafia than town with that tell

You know Oats I'm going to be laughing my ass off if my random hunch that Hu Tao red-checked you caused you to fumble your response to her question making Dann push you.

Sorry to disappoint :p

Now I make it clear that I'm favoring yeeting him over Gob and that he may actually be in danger today and he reacts very strongly.

[Grackaroni]

The suspense is killing me lol

My bet from her posts is Oats, but that'd make me bad for copying OutofOrder/DP's read on him.

Why would you be be bad?

I put you as a top town read since you were active and reading through people's games to make meta reads + OutofOrder/DP both reading you as lock town.

We'll see what comes out though I'm just speculating baselessly.

That's great, but like, why would we yeet anyone other than whoever Hu Tao mentions today?

Obviously we need to know if they are lying, and if they are, we yeet Hu Tao next, which I'm sure Hu Tao is well aware of, thus they wouldn't just make this up.

I see no reason to doubt Hu Tao here and don't plan on focusing on anyone other than whoever they bring up today.

Really depends on their claim, I’m also not a fan of the claim being done so early in the day

lol then why did you start by posting 'alright let's goooooo'

Your first reaction to many things in this game has been to call them terrible.

very very odd flip between 20 minutes of actual time

Announcing a red check puts scum in a position where they need to act in the same way that scum needs to act when they're reacting to a scum flip.

You've been cantankerous about pretty much every play this game and you thought that the correct play was to withhold the information and yet you were the only one cheering on the reveal. To me that's strange.

[Grackaroni]

The suspense is killing me lol

My bet from her posts is Oats, but that'd make me bad for copying OutofOrder/DP's read on him.

Why would you be be bad?

I put you as a top town read since you were active and reading through people's games to make meta reads + OutofOrder/DP both reading you as lock town.

We'll see what comes out though I'm just speculating baselessly.

That's great, but like, why would we yeet anyone other than whoever Hu Tao mentions today?

Obviously we need to know if they are lying, and if they are, we yeet Hu Tao next, which I'm sure Hu Tao is well aware of, thus they wouldn't just make this up.

I see no reason to doubt Hu Tao here and don't plan on focusing on anyone other than whoever they bring up today.

Really depends on their claim, I’m also not a fan of the claim being done so early in the day

lol then why did you start by posting 'alright let's goooooo'

Your first reaction to many things in this game has been to call them terrible.

very very odd flip between 20 minutes of actual time

Announcing a red check puts scum in a position where they need to act in the same way that scum needs to act when they're reacting to a scum flip.

You've been cantankerous about pretty much every play this game and you thought that the correct play was to withhold the information and yet you were the only one cheering on the reveal. To me that's strange.

So walk me through what goes through scum!oats mind during that time.

"I better cheer so I don't look suspicious"
.
.
.
.
.
"What a dumb play. Hu-Tao should have withheld the red check to get more information."

[Grackaroni]

The suspense is killing me lol

My bet from her posts is Oats, but that'd make me bad for copying OutofOrder/DP's read on him.

Why would you be be bad?

I put you as a top town read since you were active and reading through people's games to make meta reads + OutofOrder/DP both reading you as lock town.

We'll see what comes out though I'm just speculating baselessly.

That's great, but like, why would we yeet anyone other than whoever Hu Tao mentions today?

Obviously we need to know if they are lying, and if they are, we yeet Hu Tao next, which I'm sure Hu Tao is well aware of, thus they wouldn't just make this up.

I see no reason to doubt Hu Tao here and don't plan on focusing on anyone other than whoever they bring up today.

Really depends on their claim, I’m also not a fan of the claim being done so early in the day

lol then why did you start by posting 'alright let's goooooo'

Your first reaction to many things in this game has been to call them terrible.

very very odd flip between 20 minutes of actual time

Announcing a red check puts scum in a position where they need to act in the same way that scum needs to act when they're reacting to a scum flip.

You've been cantankerous about pretty much every play this game and you thought that the correct play was to withhold the information and yet you were the only one cheering on the reveal. To me that's strange.

So walk me through what goes through scum!oats mind during that time.

"I better cheer so I don't look suspicious"
.
.
.
.
.
"What a dumb play. Hu-Tao should have withheld the red check to get more information."

Can you address why you are scumreading me for the very thing you are doing?

I really don't think that's what I'm doing.

When I scum read DP it was not the thread sentiment. People started moving towards DP and it provoked a strong reaction from DP.

When I made a push to vote you today it also provoked a strong reaction because I think I made it clear that I was intending to push for my read to try to get an execution.

[Grackaroni]

I'm actually thinking that Oats is scummier than Gob.

I’m not sure how that is possible tbh

There's a few things tonally that have me questioning Gob.

yea im not gonna sit here and go over the same thing over and over, handholding people.

How about you guys make some reads and have confience you can find the answers with the info we cureently have

Why did he exactly did he teach me wrong?

Saying exactly what you want, for instance.

If you are serious i can actually help you improve.

And if you dont think im worth learning from well… watch and learn

I kind of believe his posts where he thinks that he's playing better than us. And that seems much more likely to come from town on the verge of being yeeted than as scum on the verge of being yeeted.

[Grackaroni]

My bet from her posts is Oats, but that'd make me bad for copying OutofOrder/DP's read on him.

Why would you be be bad?

I put you as a top town read since you were active and reading through people's games to make meta reads + OutofOrder/DP both reading you as lock town.

We'll see what comes out though I'm just speculating baselessly.

That's great, but like, why would we yeet anyone other than whoever Hu Tao mentions today?

Obviously we need to know if they are lying, and if they are, we yeet Hu Tao next, which I'm sure Hu Tao is well aware of, thus they wouldn't just make this up.

I see no reason to doubt Hu Tao here and don't plan on focusing on anyone other than whoever they bring up today.

Really depends on their claim, I’m also not a fan of the claim being done so early in the day

lol then why did you start by posting 'alright let's goooooo'

Your first reaction to many things in this game has been to call them terrible.

very very odd flip between 20 minutes of actual time

Announcing a red check puts scum in a position where they need to act in the same way that scum needs to act when they're reacting to a scum flip.

You've been cantankerous about pretty much every play this game and you thought that the correct play was to withhold the information and yet you were the only one cheering on the reveal. To me that's strange.

So walk me through what goes through scum!oats mind during that time.

"I better cheer so I don't look suspicious"
.
.
.
.
.
"What a dumb play. Hu-Tao should have withheld the red check to get more information."

Can you address why you are scumreading me for the very thing you are doing?

I really don't think that's what I'm doing.

When I scum read DP it was not the thread sentiment. People started moving towards DP and it provoked a strong reaction from DP.

When I made a push to vote you today it also provoked a strong reaction because I think I made it clear that I was intending to push for my read to try to get an execution.

Oh so you mean that when you push your read to get an execution that’s fine then? So when I push roden to get an execution that doesn’t count how exactly?

Roden came after you hard at the start of the game because he thought your entrance was scummy.

My biggest pushes haven't been in reaction to other people attacking me.

[Grackaroni]

I'm actually thinking that Oats is scummier than Gob.

I’m not sure how that is possible tbh

There's a few things tonally that have me questioning Gob.

yea im not gonna sit here and go over the same thing over and over, handholding people.

How about you guys make some reads and have confience you can find the answers with the info we cureently have

Why did he exactly did he teach me wrong?

Saying exactly what you want, for instance.

If you are serious i can actually help you improve.

And if you dont think im worth learning from well… watch and learn

I kind of believe his posts where he thinks that he's playing better than us. And that seems much more likely to come from town on the verge of being yeeted than as scum on the verge of being yeeted.

Why does that come from town and not mafia trying to fake false bravado.

It kind of just comes across as whatever to me. In fact the more he leans into shit like that instead of solving or doing anything to further the town agenda the more scummy he appears.

Maybe.

It seems more likely to me that this is his genuine feeling rather than that he's sitting as scum knowing that he's largely been caught and planning out this reaction as a way to deflect suspicion rather than just trying to contribute and push some suspicion towards someone else.

[Grackaroni]

I think one thing that bothers me about oatsmaster's play is that he's spent a lot of time piggybacking off other people's pushes

I feel like he's spent a lot of time kinda adding on or backing up cases made by you and DP, but I can't remember a single push oatsmaster has made that's been entirely his own or at least truly started by himself, and that kinda sends off alarm bells because it doesn't seem like any of you TL guys have issues pushing things independently

so I'm worried he's scum hiding behind the forces of you / DP doin the dirty work for him

I'd feel a lot better about him if you could point to some independent pushes he's made probably

I think this is a quality read.

When Oats responded to this post he said that Dann forgot about Roden, but the Roden exchange started with Oats just calling people bad for relying on rvs and then Roden started pushing Oats as a scum read.

(Coincidentally I've also had success catching scum for entering in a game by repeatedly shitting on people's reasoning behind their reads without contributing any reads of their own.)

This was your original post going off of what dann was saying, but now you are saying that’s not what you mean?

To me that doesn't count as initiating a push.

You can say that you initiated a push on me now, but it's entirely reactive to me putting you under pressure. That's the same as you and Roden.

The Dunnstral push I will give you some credit for. You should have answered that to Dann.

[Grackaroni]

Also grack, can you explain why you said earlier that you didn’t want to spend more than a couple hours an evening on this game, but now you seem raring to go? To yeet someone with plenty of time left in the day? To spend more than a couple hours an evening to push a yeet through?

I don't lol. I'm getting tired of having to show up every single night for 2-3 hours and want to see a flip.

These days are super long and I didn't anticipate that i'd be on here every day for 1-2 months.

[Grackaroni]

Can you go back to your gob+me equity post and tell me how that changes now that you think gob is town?

I still think that your post was approaching Gob from a strange angle and I still think the language you used at the end of the post was unnatural/forced.

It's a big part of why I think you're scum.

[Grackaroni]

Oats if you get eliminated now and flip scum you're going to get me shot.

It's really going to bolster my reputation.

[Grackaroni]

This post approaches Gob from a weird angle to me. I don't think Oats was scum reading Gob at the time but his default approach is to consider whether it would make sense for Gob to make his vote as mafia based off the two possibilities for Dan's alignment. This seems like a very unnatural approach to me. The more normal reaction imo is just to try to get more information.

Explain how this is scummy assuming gob is town. Unnatural isn’t cutting it.

My reaction after reading the posts was to pressure vote Gob and try to get more information.

Your reaction was to consider his posts from the perspective of Dann being mafia and Dann being town and look into the implications of both cases.

Then after you saw my vote trying to get him to explain his vote you laughed at me and asked what I was doing.

It doesn't come off as a townie approach to me, and then having what to me looks like awkward/unnatural writing at the end of the post makes it scummy to me.

[Grackaroni]

*From the perspective of Gob being mafia with Dann also as mafia and Gob being mafia with Dann as town.

[Grackaroni]

Grack we aren’t yeeting oats right now

Well we certainly aren't doing OutofOrder's Ninja showdown.

[Grackaroni]

Especially since I'm not even posting yet.

[Grackaroni]

Grack can you please come in and offer some more useful content than another DP tunneling Luca sesh?

I'll read through in a bit.

I sort of face-planted with my push on Oats while offering lots of reassurance that I knew what I was doing and that it was going be a success, so I'm fairly disappointed.

My gut instincts through the night phase were Dann/Vivax.

[Grackaroni]

I also don't know why your idea to try to get me to contribute more is to call my previous content bad lol.

[Grackaroni]

I‘m not fond of the way Grack adressed Oats regarding HT‘s fakeclaim and all.

The way he reacted to said claim was one of the reasons I had him as town.

Then why didn't you say any of that in the previous phase?

[Grackaroni]

I was also thinking Dannflor as likely scum coming in to today.

I was expecting DP to be night killed today.

(was expecting OutofOrder the night before)

[Grackaroni]

I‘m not fond of the way Grack adressed Oats regarding HT‘s fakeclaim and all.

The way he reacted to said claim was one of the reasons I had him as town.

Then why didn't you say any of that in the previous phase?

Yeah, Vivax, why can‘t you just do everything at once ?

I was busy with Luca and Oats and his zany theory about us being partnered.

It is why I'm doubting you though.

When I played with you on mafia universe you were actively trying to get people to yeet me throughout the game. In the last phase you were placing me in teams, but you weren't trying to convince anyone to yeet me or even mentioning the things I was doing that you found scummy - and obviously I'm the front runner to be yeeted now and you mention this for the first time.

[Grackaroni]

I was also thinking Dannflor as likely scum coming in to today.

I was expecting DP to be night killed today.

(was expecting OutofOrder the night before)

It's possible Dann was role copped by gob. Which is what I'm assuming at least

It's possible they had a good read on him.

He's also still high on the list of who I'd expect to be killed. He was definitely one of the more persuasive players.

[Grackaroni]

I am thinking its just grack.

POE, I don't really see a team that makes sense without him in it unless it's exactly luca/ht
and the wagonomics look really really damning.

1.) grack parked his vote on gob for most of day 1

Spoiler:

1.11

Roden (3) :

Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja / oatsmaster

Luca Blight (3) :

Vivax / outoforder / Hu Tao

DarthPunk (2) :

Dannflor / gob

gob (1) :

Grackaroni

SuperfluousNinja (1) :

Roden

oatsmaster (1) :

Naerys

Dannflor (1) :

DarthPunk

Not Voting (1):

Dunnstral

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

bzzzt

Flavor

Spoiler:

wow, already on our 11th votecount? times sure flies when you're having fun !

another thing that happened with each episode and that kinda gets dropped later on is that basically episode 2/3/4 were each shamelessly inspired from popular horror subgenres, 2 is litterally "The Thing", 3 is high school horror or like, whatever name that kind of thing has been given and 4 is a slasher movie, and while it's honestly a pretty interesting way to go about things ! Only problem is that 1, this wasn't at all part of what one would expect when starting to watch this series, and 2, this makes each episode feel completely disconnected from the other, sure like, the plot goes fowards, but it's riddled with timeskips, the worst one i'll detail in the next flavor bit

like seriously, in episode 4 we get teased the idea of "Zombie drones", i sure wonder where this is going ! (nowhere, this is going nowhere why did they do this just to stop midway)

1.12

Roden (3) :

Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja / oatsmaster

Luca Blight (3) :

outoforder / Hu Tao / DarthPunk

DarthPunk (3) :

Dannflor / gob / Roden

gob (1) :

Grackaroni

oatsmaster (1) :

Naerys

Not Voting (2):

Dunnstral / Vivax

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

didn't count oatsmaster's unvote at it appears to be accidental, if you accidentally make a vote / unvote you didn't want to please correct it manually for clarity purposes

Flavor

Spoiler:

I mean i'm not being very fair here, we *do* see a zombie drone but like, only for litterally 10 seconds at the start of episode 5, like

*We're in a scrapyard, with plenty of deactivated drones in a pile*

*zoom into the pile*

*we see a drone getting back to life, who looks understeandably a bit frightened by everything*

and that's it, not like really that's IT, this place / drone / THIS WHOLE IDEA never comes up again

1.13

Luca Blight (4) :

outoforder / Hu Tao / DarthPunk / Vivax

[Exe-3]

Roden (3) :

Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja / oatsmaster

DarthPunk (3) :

Dannflor / gob / Roden

gob (1) :

Grackaroni

oatsmaster (1) :

Naerys

Not Voting (1):

Dunnstral

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

Flavor filled out from VC 10 to the current one !

Flavor

Spoiler:

Ok so i'm gonna be real i didn't plan for this day to go up to page 13 so things are gonna get mostly improvised here, like, i swear i have a lot to talk about still, but i wouldn't wanna get

too

far on scheduele, so instead let's talk get more lighthearted !

the soundtrack is *really* good, like, extremely, the only thing that is sad about it is that a lot of them actually work around the dialogue and get more calm when it happens, so it's a bit tough to listen to it individually

the style is a mix of rock / dark electro and it works really well, here would be my 2 personal favorites !

1.14

Roden (4) :

Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja / oatsmaster / Dannflor

[Exe-3]

Luca Blight (2) :

outoforder / Hu Tao

DarthPunk (2) :

/ gob / Roden

Hu Tao (2) :

DarthPunk / Vivax

oatsmaster (1) :

Naerys

gob (1) :

Grackaroni

Not Voting (1):

Dunnstral

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

Empty

Flavor

Spoiler:

All the music is done by AJ Dispirito, i strongly encourage you to check out his channel where he posted every ost if you were curious about those ! It's certainely one of the only things about this series that is consistently good

anyways i'll probably throw random murder drones related images until end of day (yes picture me as in flavor throwing you printed memes, that is my artistic intent here)

1.15

Roden (4) :

Luca Blight / SuperflousNinja / oatsmaster / Dannflor

[Exe-3]

Vivax (2) :

Hu Tao / Naerys

Dunnstral (2) :

gob / Vivax

DarthPunk (1) :

Roden

Hu Tao (1) :

DarthPunk

gob (1) :

Grackaroni

Luca Blight (1) :

outoforder

Not Voting (1):

Dunnstral

With 13 Alive, it takes 7 to secure an execution.

Day One ends in (expired on 2024-02-12 04:48:03)

Mod Notes

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Flavor

Spoiler:

Here, the 13 of you can see a crudely drawn picture of the murder drones characters "V" and "Lizzy" passionately making out

this image is humorous both by it's simplistic nature, which only serves to exacerbate the passion depicted in their show of love, and by the caption above, deepening the shock value of such an art piece by pointing it out for the viewer to reflect upon

2.) this vote on oats is really suspect, in terms of timing when the balance is Oats/gob particularly in light of the day 1 gob vote.

Spoiler:

2.10

Oatsmaster (4) :

SuperfluousNinja / Dannflor / Luca Blight / gob

[Exe-2]

Gob (3) :

Naerys / DarthPunk / Hu Tao

[Exe-3]

SuperfluousNinja (2) :

outoforder / Vivax

Luca Blight (1) :

oatsmaster

Not Voting (1):

Grackaroni

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

2.11

Oatsmaster (4) :

SuperfluousNinja / Dannflor / Luca Blight / Grackaroni

[Exe-2]

Gob (3) :

Naerys / Hu Tao / Darth Punk

[Exe-3]

SuperfluousNinja (1) :

outoforder

Luca Blight (1) :

oatsmaster

outoforder (1) :

gob

Not Voting (1):

Vivax

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

.

3.) Leading my counter wagon to gob here.

Spoiler:

2.6

DarthPunk (4) :

Grackaroni / Luca Blight / Hu Tao / gob

[Exe-2]

Gob (4) :

Naerys / outoforder / DarthPunk / Dannflor

[Exe-2]

Luca Blight (2) :

oatsmaster / Vivax

Oatsmaster (1) :

SuperfluousNinja

Not Voting (0):

With 11 Alive, it takes 6 to secure an execution.

Day Two ends in (expired on 2024-02-18 14:43:52)

Mod Notes

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no thoughts?

I don't deny I was the most responsible for pushing the yeet on to Oats and have probably acted as scum's best ally throughout the course of this game.

From what I recall when I pushed on to you the main focus was on Luca rather than Gob. I'd guess Gob's wagon probably formed after the Luca wagon dissipated, which is different from the agenda that you're suggesting.

I'd like to heavily caution everybody that the scum team was very likely aware that Gob would be flipped in this game and that they would be cautious of how their posts would be viewed after his flip. I'm looking at the two wagons of Ninja/Dann/Luca/me versus Hu-Tao/nearys/DarthPunk and it's just overwhelmingly more likely that mafia was pushing Gob rather than trying to save him.

I played the last day in a very unclean way that was bound to lead me to getting in a lot of trouble. I came in with the assumption that Gob was probably mafia. Without waiting for a flip I foolishly jumped on a post Oats had made about Gob that I didn't think could come from a townie and took the lead in executing Oats. This is not how I would play as mafia. As mafia I would be want to be seen as in favor of yeeting Gob and then wait to start connecting him to other people to him after he has already flipped when my push will be viewed as logical to most of the player base.

This is what you/Naerys are doing at the moment with this vote wagon case imo.

[Grackaroni]

Grack, regardless of alignment you know people are always going to look at the wagons like this right?

Ok - but it isn't me.

I'm basically notorious for bussing to make myself look good.

Is this really the game and Gob the player where I decide that I really need to put myself out on a limb to save my teammate?

Let's consider I get executed and flip town. Does that now mean that Luca was the player protecting Gob? Or do you think that if I'm town then mafia was ok with Gob being yeeted?

[Grackaroni]

I think it's Dp and Vivax.

[Grackaroni]

I think it's Dp and Vivax.

You think I would hard defend vivax like this as Maf/maf?

How the hell should we know?

I think Grack is right.

Betting on me being right is not a good prospect lol.

I'm sort of doubling down on where I've failed the last two times by reading through Gob's ISO:

There's a lot of posts to look through, but a few stand out to me.

I feel like a number of people (and people pretty familiar with Vivax?) have said various things along the lines of Vivax seeming different this game or that he seems scummy or that his reads don't make sense - and I'm wondering why no one actually seems to want to vote him

VOTE: Dannflor

You could say that about more people than just me.
I feel like I want to fight you, so that‘s what I am going to do once I get home.

Get your vote off Roden and case me instead at least we‘ll have some action.

lol wat kinda post is this


Vivex, what do you think about DarthPunks tone this game? I feel like its hesistant and feels like scum being cautious. What do you think though?

Basically my case on GOB is that he openly stated he was posting for the sake of posting.

That is mafia 101 scummy. What can I say? I am a simple man, I see a scum claim, I vote.

It's a simple turn of phrase. You and Ninja are reading way too much into that.

I find it weird you choose to vote me over Roden though,

trying to save Ninja?

From reading through I think posts where Gob reacts to Hu-Tao or OoO seem very natural/unlikely to be partnered while posts like these read as performative/looking to distance compared to the rest of his ISO.

I will read more but this is my lazy guess at the moment. I haven't liked either of Vivax/DarthPunk's approaches to me today either.

[Grackaroni]

Grack stop avoiding talking about what you meant about naerys you threw shit at her and then won’t talk about it anymore.

lol

You are so scummy.

[Grackaroni]

VOTE: DarthPunk

[Grackaroni]

I didn't say that DP/Nearys are mafia together.

I said that I thought mafia was more likely pushing Gob than trying to save Gob, and that the better play for mafia was to be on the good side of Gob's wagon and then push the narrative afterwards that the people that weren't on Gob's wagon were scummy.

My DP/Vivax idea came from reading through Gob's ISO.

[Grackaroni]

I thought I was greenchecked to Grack tbh.
You are witnessing scum under pressure boxing themselves into a corner against the ones pushing them.

What happened to Gracks Naerys read? She stopped posting after calling him mafia, so not relevant for him.

You just copied the last two people and the previous two didn't make any sense either!

Exhausting. I'll hammer myself at this point.

[Grackaroni]

I thought I was greenchecked to Grack tbh.
You are witnessing scum under pressure boxing themselves into a corner against the ones pushing them.

What happened to Gracks Naerys read? She stopped posting after calling him mafia, so not relevant for him.

You just copied the last two people and the previous two didn't make any sense either!

Exhausting. I'll hammer myself at this point.

Very nice writing.
Do I have to already ?

If you do it'll be you tomorrow.

[Grackaroni]

I think it's just you/Vivax/DP - though I could be wrong.

[Grackaroni]

For the votes.

[Grackaroni]

It looks like Ninja switched to Vivax.

[Grackaroni]

It's pronounced Grank.

[Grackaroni]

Also, we are not "all wrong", but I admit I am concerned when every single person is on a player's case. You can't rule out that all the townies are wrong and the scum are just like "lol sure man, all aboard"

Well clearly you are all wrong

[Grackaroni]

Grack do you have a claim?

I claim that DarthPunk is mafia.

[Grackaroni]

HEAR MY CLAIM.

[Grackaroni]

What do you expect to find out from me making a role claim?

[Grackaroni]

If me not claiming makes you want to hammer, then please hammer.

My guess is DP/Vivax, but I'm not really motivated to look too deeply. Hu-Tao comes off tonally as townie to me.

[Grackaroni]

Vivax, if you answer my question in post 4453, I'll cast the hammer vote!

Don't get in the way of progress, Vivax

Hammer please.

[Grackaroni]

Vivax, if you answer my question in post 4453, I'll cast the hammer vote!

Don't get in the way of progress, Vivax

Hammer please.

Ask him to answer the questions!

I don't even know what the questions are. I got caught up replying to DP's attempt to bury me with his scum-motivated crap.

I do think Vivax was very shifty in his reply to me.

[Grackaroni]

Come on Grack, do you want to get hammered or what? Put that pressure on Vivax with me!

Honestly I do. Everyone is convinced I'm scum and I don't have a great idea of what's going on anyways.

[Grackaroni]

Why is Naerys town to you Vivax?

[Grackaroni]

Why is Naerys town to you Vivax?

The tone mostly+the jk thing.
And she isn‘t trying to murder me that‘s a bonus.

I don't really see why that lead you to banish the idea of her being mafia from reading her ISO.

Her tone has been the same throughout the whole game.

[Grackaroni]

Not sure what to make of Grack‘s refuge into audacity.

There‘s very little in Naerys ISO to really pin her down. Gob doesn‘t help much either.

I‘m inclined to go for a Naerys vote here but I‘d like to see Luca caught up.

HT any updates ? Opinions ? Donations ?

Meh I was just frustrated last night. I haven't approached the game in a good way.

Tonight I'm just going to ignore reading the latest posts and take the time to re-read through older portions of the game instead and work out a detailed reads post.

[Grackaroni]

im the mafia and my teammates are Luca and Vivax

i wish gob actually spewed his team like this...

I think this is legitimately the scum team, and Hu-Tao's already on track for success with voting off me/Vivax/Luca. Mafia will have to kill off Ninja tonight or else she will be forced to re-adjust her reads if she's left in the game. DP will work things out at the end after the flips if he's left in.

Bit disappointed I defended scum throughout the game and at the most inopportune timing. So painful reading through.

[Grackaroni]

It's because I re-read some of the exchanges from the early pages.

DP was doing a good job of trying to build pressure on Gob right as I was entering the thread and I pushed him off it.

This post in particular I realized is very likely coming from the perspective of scum looking to defend themselves from town rather than the type of post scum makes while distancing.

Basically my case on GOB is that he openly stated he was posting for the sake of posting.

That is mafia 101 scummy. What can I say? I am a simple man, I see a scum claim, I vote.

It's a simple turn of phrase. You and Ninja are reading way too much into that.

I find it weird you choose to vote me over Roden though, trying to save Ninja?

It may be a simple turn of phrase but was it true? If so, why were you posting for the sake of posting?

I am not trying to 'save' anyone. I am trying to get the elim correct. I think Ninja also has a good chance of flipping mafia, but I want to elim the person with the

best

chance of flipping mafia.

It wasn't really true. I was really just trying to post to 'charge myself up' so to speak, and also move the topic away from whatever was going on at the time since i deemed it not worthwhile.
For me, that is posting for the sake of posting, cause I am posting to 'charge myself up' when in reality I could go 'charge myself up' doing something else IRL, but i instead chose to post in the thread. So from a certain point of view it was a selfish play since it was purely focused on elevating my play. That is why I described it was the terminology I did.

[Grackaroni]

im the mafia and my teammates are Luca and Vivax

i wish gob actually spewed his team like this...

I think this is legitimately the scum team,

and Hu-Tao's already on track for success with voting off me/Vivax/Luca

. Mafia will have to kill off Ninja tonight or else she will be forced to re-adjust her reads if she's left in the game. DP will work things out at the end after the flips if he's left in.

Bit disappointed I defended scum throughout the game and at the most inopportune timing. So painful reading through.

I just want to highlight how fake this is, when Grack seemingly didn't scumread me until just now (that I've said he's my biggest scumread) and his Darth scumread has vanished into thin air, to the point that he's willing to bet the game on me and Vivax being the scumteam, based on Gob's random shitposting.

I'm everyone's biggest scum read, and you made the same post last night, so I really couldn't care less about your re-iteration of it today.

I don't see a scum team without you on it.

[Grackaroni]

im the mafia and my teammates are Luca and Vivax

i wish gob actually spewed his team like this...

I think this is legitimately the scum team,

and Hu-Tao's already on track for success with voting off me/Vivax/Luca

. Mafia will have to kill off Ninja tonight or else she will be forced to re-adjust her reads if she's left in the game. DP will work things out at the end after the flips if he's left in.

Bit disappointed I defended scum throughout the game and at the most inopportune timing. So painful reading through.

I just want to highlight how fake this is, when Grack seemingly didn't scumread me until just now (that I've said he's my biggest scumread) and his Darth scumread has vanished into thin air, to the point that he's willing to bet the game on me and Vivax being the scumteam, based on Gob's random shitposting.

I'm everyone's biggest scum read, and you made the same post last night, so I really couldn't care less about your re-iteration of it today.

I don't see a scum team without you on it.

Explain your thought process on that.

You always take the path of least resistance.

[Grackaroni]

I mean... if you want to provoke me into staying up and writing instead of procrastinating I will do it.

[Grackaroni]

Basically any time you identify someone that you think will be a persuasive townie, you try to buddy them.

374 is an excellent post, I have to say. Dann is pretty obviously town now, in my opinion.

For what it's worth, I feel quite confident about outoforder being town after this exchange.

499 is brilliant - it reflects my thoughts on the game almost entirely, and offers many insights that I had not yet considered. I've seen scum act far worse than oats this game (perhaps I'm desensitised to rudeness at this point) so I don't necessarily agree that he's town just for being rude, but I generally feel as though his play has been proactive and his pushes haven't lacked conviction. I need to catch up more but will review this slot again.

The read progression on Darth Punk is very natural. I really like the analysis of Dunn and the bit about trying to trap scum into being more active - that puts to rest one of the slight doubts I had after Dann's case highlighted such posts, and I read the passion behind these comments as being sincere. The analysis of Gob and Roden is spot on as well. I was pretty null on Gob before reading this post, but I'm definitely leaning scum on him now following some of the observations made here. I also resonate with the mixed reaction to Vivax - so far I have disagreed or seen flaws in much of what he has said, and yet something about his style of play makes me naturally want to townread him. I will be sure to review Vivax later as well.

Both Dann and Ninja are clear town reads at this point.

[Grackaroni]

Now the real question is, why does it seem like you are operating with an agenda, you write cases that are worse than you present them as, with a level of confidence that is not commesurate to the 'evidence' you are presenting.

It smacks of holding an agenda tbh. Are you trying to wrest thread control from the active players? Or are you mafia?

This doesn't sit well with me.

First, I think Dann's case on Ninja was very well-considered, and you showed signs of agreeing with it yourself. Therefore, it feels as though you're riding on Ninja's line of defence, regarding Dann making bad cases, to dismiss the case out of hand. You're also not considering that when Dann was presented with a valid reason to change his read, he did so and clearly displayed his thought-process in doing so, so it's not like he has undue confidence in his cases, as if he did then he would still be voting Ninja.

The last sentence seems like you're trying to sow the seeds of doubt on a player who is, in my opinion, quite clearly town.

In the previous post you call Ninja/Dann clear towns, and then in this post you accuse DP of trying to 'ride to Ninja's defense/dismiss the case out of hand.' This accusation does not make sense - why would scum DP be motivated to dismiss a townie's case against another townie out of hand?

Another attempt to buddy imo masquerading as scumhunting.

[Grackaroni]

You know Luca I'm not going to bother responding to you like other players get caught up doing.

I'm just going to follow linearly through your ISO.

[Grackaroni]

Spoiler:

I feel like a number of people (and people pretty familiar with Vivax?) have said various things along the lines of Vivax seeming different this game or that he seems scummy or that his reads don't make sense - and I'm wondering why no one actually seems to want to vote him

VOTE: Dannflor

You could say that about more people than just me.
I feel like I want to fight you, so that‘s what I am going to do once I get home.

Get your vote off Roden and case me instead at least we‘ll have some action.

I don't like this reaction - I feel as though Dann has been very clear and open with his thought process, and wanting to 'fight him' rather than allow him to pursue Roden (who from town!Vivax's perspective should at least have a chance of being scum) is obviously anti-town and perhaps even a little theatrical, because naturally you wouldn't expect scum to demand someone to vote/case them, but it doesn't feel genuine in this context.

Same idea.

[Grackaroni]

Having caught up, I'm starting to town-lean Vivax again based on his recent posts. I just think if he's scum then he's making life unnecessarily difficult for himself.

I have a soft town-lean on Gob, which perhaps I will elaborate on earlier.

Dann and ninja are still clearly town
Outoforder is most probably town too
I think Oats and Darth punk are town, but am less confident
Then comes Gob and Dunn, who are soft Town-leans. Maybe Grackaroni too, but I need to see more.

The only clear scumread I have right now is Roden. The other slots haven't left much of an impression on me yet.

List post where you read everyone as town except the player who played really abrasively and brought a lot of attention to himself.

[Grackaroni]

It's deja-vu!

Yes, that's true. It's just not something I'm used to seeing from scum on this level, but you could be right in this case. I certainly find it hard to understand Vivax's perspective on most things, as I've said.

btw I now think the opposite of what I said earlier regarding oats/Roden. I think it's very unlikely to be S/S, given Roden's reveal as to the actual intentions behind his questions. I don't think it would have got to that point if they were both scum.

I am more amicable and diplomatic as mafia. I rarely take risks. I think if I had to pick my mafia version for this game it would be much more similar to how Luca Blight plays.
Maybe I should scumread him after all.

I'm a little suspicious of this, because I don't see why it would take until this point in time for Vivax to have this consideration. For me, this is the first thing I think about, which is why i was suspicious of outoforder and Roden early doors for their sudden burst of energy, as it's reminiscent of my past scum games.

One theory that has crossed my mind - Vivax is being belligerent with players who he knows will scumread him for passive behaviour, while playing it cool on players who might be more easily influenced.

Vivax has played it very cool on me all game, and has only started to raise doubts since I criticised some of his posts.

This one's just funny to me because so far your only comment on Vivax has been that his posts don't make sense and that you don't think he'd go against the grain like this as mafia, and then you use the same line of reasoning for Vivax being mafia as you do for me now.

("very convenient that you're attacking me after I criticized your post!")

[Grackaroni]

I re-evaluated.

Not my fault nobody else chose to vote him Day 1.

[Grackaroni]

First shade towards me comes in reaction to me pushing suspicion towards him.

Spoiler:

I am more amicable and diplomatic as mafia. I rarely take risks. I think if I had to pick my mafia version for this game it would be much more similar to how Luca Blight plays.
Maybe I should scumread him after all.

I can get behind this read.

Luca's posts are all very logical but there's something that feels off about it to me. He posts a light suspicion of Dann and then says that Dann is clear town after seeing his first case. Similarly he posts some things concerning him about DP/OoO, but then comes around pretty quickly to both of them being townie. He's not at all worried that a stronger player could have rolled mafia and his posts just feel rather safe.

I just don't see Dann's play as coming from scum at all, no matter how good he might be at playing scum. Just about every move he has made since his case on ninja has reflected my own reactions upon reading through. If he actually is scum then fair play, it's a masterful performance and he deserves it.

Outoforder seemed very town in his sorting of me earlier and in his general play. There has been the slightly underhanded shading that has given me pause for thought, but I am still pretty confident on him being town.

Regarding 'safe' posts, I actually feel a lot of your posts (including the one I'm quoting) are very much in the 'safe' category. I would much prefer to play in a more dynamic way, which I feel I'm normally capable of, but as I've said I'm finding it difficult in this current game state.

[Grackaroni]

Next scum read is also in reaction to being pushed.

Yeah, Dann doesn't have an ego. Just a good player. imo

I don't disagree with the above, but at this point I'm going to put Hu Tao as a scumread. She doesn't seem to add anything relevant to the discussions, and only comments on thigs that have no real bearing on the game.

She has also voted me but not, as far as I can see, presented any thought-process behind this read.

[Grackaroni]

Game will obviously look differently now that almost all of the alignments are known.

[Grackaroni]

I realized DP was town and Ninja has been checked.

That leaves you/Nearys/Hu-Tao/Vivax from my perspective. When re-reading through parts of the game it really puts a magnifying glass on your posts.

[Grackaroni]

So why is it necessarily a Luca/Vivax team from that?

It just seemed the most likely to me.

It may not be the case.

There are a lot of interactions with you trying to discern Vivax's alignment and mentioning that you are eager to ISO him further.

[Grackaroni]

I've said the same thing about you at least twice this game as well. Both you and Vivax are players I've found difficult to read this game in general.

Yeah we're definitely the strangest.