Mini Normal 2329: complex. [game over!]

[KayJayQueue]

Hey everyone! This is my first game, I just joined the site recently. I’m sorry if I have to get certain acronyms or terms clarified if I don’t quite work it out myself, but hopefully I’ll learn quickly.

[KayJayQueue]

I’m catching up on my lunch break and I’m a tad overwhelmed with what’s happening. (but trying my best to keep up!) I think I need to reread the roles.

Can anyone give me an estimation of how long Day 1 normally lasts? It feels like it’s moving very fast, and quite dramatically, so I’m just wondering if this is normal or specific to our game.

[KayJayQueue]

Thank you Political Clout and Klick for answering that for me.

Klick can you enlighten me on your Hu Tao vote? Was it just random? It feels like your vote started a bit of a trend. Or is literally everyone’s vote right now just random?

[KayJayQueue]

Oh I think I must’ve missed your post 134 while I was typing my response.

[KayJayQueue]

I have no reason to think a baddie would ask to be voted out immediately to prove a point. This makes me believe Hu Tao is part of our town and is just trying to get us to listen to the read they have? Or is this a mafia play that is going over my head?

[KayJayQueue]

I have no reason to think a baddie would ask to be voted out immediately to prove a point. This makes me believe Hu Tao is part of our town

It could be manipulative gambit. I dont really consider self voting AI tbh

I hate to be this ignorant of the game lingo but what does AI stand for? Thanks in advance.

[KayJayQueue]

From what I’ve picked up and observed, I just don’t think Hu Tao is a good vote right now. I don’t have an alternative yet but I just don’t think Hu Tao is worth killing today after everything that’s been said.

[KayJayQueue]

My blind spot here, though, is that I have a feeling many people here have played together before and can pick up on things that go completely unnoticed by me. I worry this also brings meta reads that might mean absolutely nothing.

[KayJayQueue]

do you really think RN was close to being limmed?
ugh i guess some people did

RN was at e-2 and the 4th/5th votes were openly goading for a quicklim on page three of the game.

54
69
71

Is this normal (especially post 71) on Day 1, to just do things for shiz and giggles? Basically, should this be something to not read too far into or should it be something to note and keep an eye on?

[KayJayQueue]

Doctor Drew - towny
Naerys - scummy
Hu Tao - hu taown
Random Nurse - Town
NotAScum - scum
Aristeia - unsure, maybe slightly towny
geraintm - gera
Political Clout - unsure
Klick - unsure
KayJayQueue - town
Dannflor - unsure
davesaz - probably town
Psyche - the slightest of towny

This is where I'd say I'm at right now

Just wondering if you could clarify/expand your views on a few of these. What do you mean by “geranium-gera”, like you can’t get a read because of the way they play or you’ve seen them do this before and it doesn’t mean anything for sure? Also, I’m wonder what you’re unsure about re: Aristeia.

I agree with a handful of these but there are a few you have as town that I don’t think I could pin down this early, at least not enough to post a full list confidently. (though I suppose being Day 1, everything is just highly speculative anyway)

I think now that I’m off work I’m going to go back and reread today’s posts so I get a better read on things/people. I’ll feel more useful when I have more to add instead of just asking questions after the fact.

[KayJayQueue]

If I'm being honest I would self vote as scum but probably wouldn't say the stuff I'm saying in terms of getting Naerys tomorrow. So I can see how that's manipulative now. Sorry and this wasn't my intention and I won't do it again in the future. I should see how other perspective would see it, not just myself. Now I feel bad.

UNVOTE:

you are telling me you had 0 idea your self-vote and "trade deal" case would cause some people to town read you and thus want to unvote you?

because i would find it more believable that you were intentionally being manipulative as town than that you actually believed that if you self voted and died that people would sheep your case on naerys. you actually believe the case is that strong?? you actually believe people care about dead townie's reads?? have you ever seen a situation like that happen before?

like you just said that last game you spent like 3 day phases calling naerys scum before anyone would listen to. what makes you think anyone would listen to you after you died?

So when I semi-defended that move as “I don’t see mafia doing that, especially being so willing to go out first” (probably not verbatim), are you suggesting that was a conclusion that wouldn't be wise to jump to because it could be a bluff and/or manipulation? And say we did vote Hu and we were wrong, does it not make sense to follow through on the naerys thing? Is that because the possibility of them both being town is higher than Hu having an accurate read?

And on that point, if we did vote Hu, is it wrong to consider their position during the next day phase? IF they are proven town, wouldn’t their opinions/ideas be worth revisiting instead of ignoring? Personally and it may just be me, I do believe I’d care about the opinion of someone dead if they were confirmed good. Now, all that being said, would I be taking the wrong approach in that scenario? And if so, why? I ask this genuinely because I do want to be cautious in my line of thinking, especially so I don’t get tunnel vision believing someone is or isn’t town.

[KayJayQueue]

From what I’ve picked up and observed, I just don’t think Hu Tao is a good vote right now. I don’t have an alternative yet but I just don’t think Hu Tao is worth killing today after everything that’s been said.

I'd like you to explain what specifically made you think this when you return to thread

I’ll definitely return to your question with a better understanding and explanation to support my opinion on Hu, it’s highly possible I pick up on things I missed or went over my head. I’m sure there are nuances I missed (or misunderstood) while skimming quickly during my work day.

[KayJayQueue]

generally i find people who play mafia are more interested in their own individual reads to dead sheep someone like that unless they have a significant reputation for having accurate reads

Hmm. I may be at a disadvantage here because I can’t really take anyone’s reputation into account when I’m completely unacquainted with literally every single person here. I couldn’t differentiate these players from a hole in the ground, especially Day 1. So it’s highly possible I’m being naive in trusting a play where the sole purpose (possibly) is to manipulate, but without previous knowledge…it’s either trust my initial gut response or second guess everything. The latter sounds exhausting but most likely the correct approach for now.

This game is a trip, but I’m glad I joined in!

[KayJayQueue]

Who's open to limming Naerys or Hu today?

I’m currently not comfortable putting a vote on Hu but I’m not really convinced on Naerys either. Do I have to vote right now? Is it a bad move to not have my vote on someone right now? It feels like jumping the gun when days can last quite long if we choose. I just feel incredibly indecisive and I think we could use more time to talk it through. Plus, I feel there are people I’ve barely heard anything from, but I’m assuming time zones are a slight issue.

[KayJayQueue]

From what I’ve picked up and observed, I just don’t think Hu Tao is a good vote right now. I don’t have an alternative yet but I just don’t think Hu Tao is worth killing today after everything that’s been said.

I'd like you to explain what specifically made you think this when you return to thread

Okay, after rereading everything my feelings have changed on a couple things. I actually feel very confident about Hu Tao being town. On the other hand, Naerys gave me a few red flags, both offensively and defensively on their end. In the Hu vs Naerys posts, I felt myself getting better vibes from Hu. Naerys felt overly pushy on Hu for what felt like little to no reason and used Hu’s reaction to push harder, which from my perspective didn’t hold too much water. Also, some of Naerys’ posts felt a tad dramatic whereas even when Hu self-voted, it felt like it was to push town in the right direction. (in Hu’s mind the correct thing was to eliminate Naerys even if it took a town sacrifice to get there-not saying that’s the best course of action but at least I felt like I understood what they were doing)

I can’t say I fully read Naerys as bad yet though I’m definitely leaning that way at the moment, but I can confidently say my current gut read on Hu Tao is town.

[KayJayQueue]

I’m going back and forth whether I should put a vote on Naerys or not. I feel like my vote is more informed than most of the votes in the first few pages that were gut votes and/or just completely random. It’s not a crazy strong read but it’s the strongest one I currently have, I’m just wondering if it’s a read I’m willing to commit to. Then again, my read that Hu is town is much stronger so maybe if I vote it’s to show that I really don’t agree with where the majority of votes currently are.

Ahhh here goes nothing I suppose…

VOTE: VOTE: Naerys

[KayJayQueue]

I’m really worried the vote is getting too close on Hu. Can we please discuss this more? Unless everyone voting Hu is willing to follow through on Naerys the next day, I really think someone should unvote Hu Tao before people jump on/switch to kill Hu and end today early. Maybe I’m just overly-cautious but I don’t think this is the right move unless everyone is taking the 1 for 1 seriously. (and I highly doubt that’s the case, and I don’t really think we should be doing that until we’re sure we wouldn’t just be killing two of our town)

I’m not pushing to vote Naerys instead (even though that’s where my vote is), I’m just asking that we don’t rush this kill. It’s making me apprehensive and I don’t feel like I/we have enough info.

[KayJayQueue]

Someone in the {Dann, Ari, Naerys} set is scum hoping that this wagon goes over prematurely before the momentum dies out

Do you think I’m being too anxious about this vote going through early? Maybe it’s just because it goes directly against my read on Hu Tao but I feel this would be a bad kill especially without getting more opinions. I’m open to having my mind changed but right now, I see absolutely no reason for Hu Tao to be killed with where we currently stand as a whole. (I’m mainly weary of this happening while simultaneously being aware of the lack of input, information, and reasoning from everyone beyond a vocal handful)

[KayJayQueue]

Actually that's not very fair, geraintm's vote was 2.5 hours ago and the Americans are asleep and not periodically staring at this thread

I’m from the U.S., I just wake up at an ungodly hour Thurs-Mon because of the nature of my job. Since I travel every week for work, I’m never in the same timezone. (though I’ll always be in a U.S. timezone) So I hope no one pays attention to posting times/patterns because I might seem crazy hah

[KayJayQueue]

Kay, how many games have you had on this site?

This is my first one. So please give me blunt feedback if I’m doing something abnormal because I really do want to be successful in this game and my subsequent games and I am fully aware that I don’t know what I’m doing and I welcome constructive criticism. I’m probably a bit overeager but that’s just kinda my personality.

[KayJayQueue]

...

Alright.

I’m confused…is this a bad thing?

[KayJayQueue]

Psyche (2) - Drew, geraintm
Klick (2) - davesaz, Political Clout

Were there distinctive reasons for these four votes? Maybe I’m missing something. My current read on Klick is town and my read on Psyche is undecided. Like I said earlier, my intent isn’t to hard push Naerys at this moment. My vote was in support of NOT eliminating Hu Tao. Subsequently, a supporting reason for my vote is that my strongest read is a highly ‘unsure’ on Naerys which is why my vote is currently there. I’m open to and welcome discussion of others though. I don’t want to have tunnel vision of Naerys vs Hu Tao because I don’t know how much that’ll accomplish leading into the next day.

[KayJayQueue]

Oh just realized I was reading an older vote, geraintm had since switched to Hu. The rest of my inquiry stands though.

[KayJayQueue]

It’d be hilarious if Naerys and Hu were engaged in distancing.

…

Hilarious indeed.

Not sure how serious this comment was but I highly doubt this, solely because Hu was very close to being eliminated with the last thing they were pushing was voting Naerys out. Unless the plan was to clear naerys the rest of the game. I still just don’t see that as a good day 1 plan, but I don’t have much to go off of in terms of past game experience so I can’t say with any conviction that it couldn’t or wouldn’t happen.

[KayJayQueue]

I’m not sure I hear those fingers typing, Naerys.

Why is this so funny to me lol

[KayJayQueue]

I think i’d rather not kill hu tao or naerys today

While the Hu/Naerys convo is ongoing, can we discuss other options? Personally, I don’t have any other strong reads at the moment but I’d like to hear other opinions so we can discuss.

[KayJayQueue]

Klick where do you sit currently on Hu?

TL, T, N, SL, S?

I’m sorry for needing clarification but do these acronyms mean T - town, N-neutral, S-scum, and what are the Ls? Like “leaning town”? That would make most sense to me but I don’t want to operate off my assumptions here.

(I promise I’ll pick these terms up quickly and the hand holding will dissipate soon)

[KayJayQueue]

Does anyone have an unofficial vote count?

[KayJayQueue]

Official is even better!

[KayJayQueue]

UNVOTE: unvote

[KayJayQueue]

It’d be hilarious if Naerys and Hu were engaged in distancing.

…

Hilarious indeed.

Not sure how serious this comment was but I highly doubt this, solely because Hu was very close to being eliminated with the last thing they were pushing was voting Naerys out. Unless the plan was to clear naerys the rest of the game. I still just don’t see that as a good day 1 plan, but I don’t have much to go off of in terms of past game experience so I can’t say with any conviction that it couldn’t or wouldn’t happen.

Hu is very capable as Scum. I’m assuming you don’t know her like I do (10+ alts included). She once counter-claimed a Cop with a claimed guilty on her and got his ass launched.

You’re right, I don’t know her. Unfortunately, I don’t know anyone so it’s going to be harder for me to discern certain actions as genuine vs performative (or just lies)…which worries me that I might fall victim to a good manipulator at some point. So please if anyone sees me falling into what they think is a trap, don’t be shy to tell me.

At the moment I don’t think Hu Tao is being manipulative but that’s coming from my first impression and everything that’s been said up to now.

[KayJayQueue]

I'm leaning towards launching Naerys.

Which wafflers refuse to vote her?

I’m not refusing to vote, I just really want to hear opinions on anyone other than Hu Tao and Naerys right now before we just yeet someone. They’ve both self voted now, not sure if it’s out of frustration or strategy but I really think it would be best for us to just put an elimination on hold for a bit. We have the time right? Days are long if we want then to be, it seems.

[KayJayQueue]

KJQ, do you have opinions on other slots?

In post 451, I said “Personally, I don’t have any other strong reads at the moment but I’d like to hear other opinions so we can discuss.”

There are a few people I feel are town but I was hoping some more experienced players (and/or the ones that have been quiet) could offer something that I could investigate when I’m going back through posts so that I can form a better opinion.

[KayJayQueue]

Why would my confidence crumble if I'm scum and I successfully miseliminate you

bcz scum has to keep up some appearances, if you´d remain confident after being so obviously "wrong" it´d be suspicious
so obviously your confidence will have to crumble even if for the spectators

this seems really contrived

VOTE: Naerys

What are your thoughts on other people this game that don't include me or Naerys

I feel like I’ve been asking this same question to a brick wall all day

[KayJayQueue]

I worry that the minute I give my opinion on my gut feeling on a few I am strongly feeling are town, I’m going to get responses that say “oh I’ve played with them before, they do this as scum” “don’t pay attention to that” etc etc. I feel like I’m the only one that can’t offer any meta and therefore I’ll never have the full picture that others seem to have. It’s slightly alienating but I’m trying to keep up.

[KayJayQueue]

Were launching Naerys today.

I want to see some consolidation in these random failwagons, people.

Hypothetically, we eliminate Naerys and she’s town. Does that mean the day after, there’s going to be a pile on Hu Tao? Obviously things can happen at night that might give us info but I just don’t want this to bounce back to Hu if we are wrong about Naerys. Hu Tao is someone I am feeling is town, moreso than most at the moment.

But I still need to contemplate the other end of the hypothetical where Naerys is scum. I’ll get back to that.

[KayJayQueue]

5) I strongly believe one of Naerys/Hu is Scum.

This is what worries me. If we push naerys today and are wrong, I feel you’ll push Hu next and I’m not on board with that unless some new information is brought up that makes sense. If this game is just going to be “Random Nurse is clear so they get to decide who we eliminate every round”, I don’t think we’ll accomplish much outside of losing if your reads are wrong.

[KayJayQueue]

Naerys, who are your strongest town reads right now and (besides Hu Tao) any other scum reads?

[KayJayQueue]

Naerys ATEs (appeals to emotion for the newer players) when pushed as either alignment, but there may be a difference in how she does it.
Sometimes it isn't necessary to have detailed meta to tell the difference. I agree with RN, disengaging or avoiding the confrontation is more likely to mean she's scum even without the meta.

Hu Tao is similar in that respect, though in her case this game I'm looking at whether she's broadly considering the whole player list or narrowly focused on one of her antagonists.

I don't think either one would be easy to push through. Definitely not LHF, despite appearances from the self votes.

I really appreciate this post, thank you.

[KayJayQueue]

This wiki argument feels like a lot explanation and reasoning over very little substance. I can’t base an opinion on NAS on just this wiki thing. I need to see more from them.

[KayJayQueue]

VOTE: kayjayqueue

I don't see this at all

I think if naerys and hu tao are town v town then KJQ very much fits the profile of scum i am expecting

I think her tone has been decently towny but i think her posts are much more driven by fear of optics than fear of being wrong

I’ve said it a few times that I’m fine eliminating Naerys, I had a vote on her and only took it off because I didn’t want the day to end without more discussion. I don’t have a town read on her and I think it’s our best option currently. I just don’t want to turn around and watch us also get rid of Hu if naerys turns out to be town. Because that IS one of my stronger town reads right now. And it feels to me like that’s where it would be headed if that is the case.

[KayJayQueue]

Does anyone else feel the same way as psyche on this subject? I’d like another voice to chime in if there is something we’re missing.

[KayJayQueue]

I have a new reads list

Patiently awaiting this list. It might be time for to post one too. I still have a few HUGE question marks though.

[KayJayQueue]

If you're in this list and town please start town telling. Begging

What exactly is “town telling”? (legit question) because I’m assuming it’s not just saying “hey I’m town”

[KayJayQueue]

Doctor Drew - Unsure. I want to lean towny
Naerys - scummy
Hu Tao - hu taown
Random Nurse - Town
NotAScum - scum
Aristeia - unsure, leaning scummy.
geraintm - gera still
Political Clout - leaning sus
Klick - towny
KayJayQueue - town
Dannflor - unsure. Bad vote, might be scummy ( but he's good as scum so idk if he makes that vote as scum. But it might be a distraction vote so I think I'd still lean scum)
davesaz - probably town
Psyche - towny

This is where I am leaning at the moment

3 of your “unsures” are also who I have zero read on currently (Doctor Drew, Aristeia, Political Clout) I don’t even have a lean on any of them except maybe clout as leaning town. I have a few town reads I feel okay about right now, and one very strong town read. But I just don’t think I’m picking up on enough nuance to be making an informed list the same way the more experienced players can.

[KayJayQueue]

KayJayQueue at least deserves to win so let’s just give her the townread. an innocent child in spirit.

Is there strategy behind this or is this just to patronize me? lol

[KayJayQueue]

haha what a funny or

I still think Hu has been scummy, but I get the points about NAS.

Still don't get the points about Nae though

Hmm I have the opposite opinion, re: Hu and Nae. If we’re just isolating the self votes, it seems to me like Hu was trying to make a point in order to help town whereas Nae’s looked like an emotional response. But I don’t know how they usually play so I’m not sure if my read on that is correct. I also don’t really understand self-voting in general so I just think it’s odd either way.

[KayJayQueue]

Dave are you leaning any specific way currently in terms of who we should vote? I can’t see myself putting my vote on Hu Tao or Psyche unless something crazy happens but I’m open to discussions on others.

[KayJayQueue]

10 days is long but I also think the momentum we had halted when Drew unexpectedly left.

[KayJayQueue]

I still think Naerys today. If there is a vigilante, they should shoot NotAScum

What are the pros/cons of voting and shooting one or the other? I’ve never played a game with a vigilante but I’m assuming it’s pretty straightforward that they can kill at night? I’m going to go reread the role but I’d still be open to answers about pros/cons (are there any cons?) and if it matters who we vote vs who the vigilante shoots.

[KayJayQueue]

Right now, I’m here:

Town: Random Nurse, Klick
Probably town: davesaz, Hu Tao, Psyche
No opinion: Titus, Dannflor
Unsure: geraintm, Political Clout
Need more info: Aristeia, NotAScum
Possibly scum: Naerys

If I were to vote right now, it would have to be Naerys but I’m open to the other options.

[KayJayQueue]

What’s getting me is that Naerys still has a self vote on her…I just don’t get that logic. It’s making me think twice but maybe that’s the point. I don’t know what I’m

supposed

to think about that move.

[KayJayQueue]

I don’t know what I’m supposed to think about that move.

I think it's more important to focus on what you do think, over what you're supposed to think.

What I thought was that it was an emotional response initially (indicative of scum) but leaving the vote there for this long is making me feel less sure about that read. If she is scum, maybe she felt supported enough to think she wasn’t going to get eliminated even with a self vote, especially once NAS was brought to the forefront of the discussion for a good amount of time and votes started changing. But is that really the most likely scenario? I’m not sure. This could be stubbornness as town as well, just to prove a point I guess? I don’t know Naerys so I can’t feel out what I think is the case here.

[KayJayQueue]

Someone may have mentioned this already, but why did NAS not approach Naerys' self vote the same as Hu Tao's?

VOTE: Naerys

I don’t think we have an answer from him but reading back, my best guess would be something to do with this post:

Seen plenty of dramatic townies to self vote, including myself

Which is why self-voting alone isn't enough to gauge anyone's scuminess. But Hu Tao jumped on the RN wagon, that is another tell.

And now reading that, I notice that Naerys literally describes self-voting as something she does as town. I wonder if that was a pre-emotive set up to provide context to a self-vote allowing her to claim town by pointing to that interaction. Or she could just literally be telling the truth. No idea.

[KayJayQueue]

Although my gut does suspect there's at least one among Klick, Hu Tao, and Psyche. Anyone have first-hand experience with Klick's Scum meta?

Also, hi Titus.

I’m confused…who is this?

[KayJayQueue]

Aside from the self vote, why Naeyrs? Why geratum?

I only have an answer for Naerys and it wasn’t so much the self-vote, though that added to it. I think it was the general attitude especially her back and forth with Hu Tao. The read is conditional though because it is reliant on my town (probably) read on Hu Tao.

[KayJayQueue]

Although my gut does suspect there's at least one among Klick, Hu Tao, and Psyche. Anyone have first-hand experience with Klick's Scum meta?

Also, hi Titus.

I've been asked to quote this for... *reasons.*

I’ll need to follow you on this if you get stronger feelings on any of them because I’m currently reading all 3 as town.

[KayJayQueue]

don't mind them guys they drank some hatorade this morning. I was thinking it might be aristea way back when I made my dumb prediction post at work because I had nothing better to do then someone quoted wait dr. drew I think that would scum make that post and quoted aristea lke idk third post or something I'm hard guessing. but klick also quoted it way back. anyways I was thinking nah scum don't make that post. then I was thinking I haven't seen them then I started reading back and saw that they were going after gera now. It felt WEIRD. that's where I'm at with aristea.

I’ve read this 5 times and I’m not comprehending it. At. All. I think I need some sleep. Except it’s 5pm and I have at least 6 more hours of work. So expect me to keep posting instead of concentrating on work lol

[KayJayQueue]

i can't get over my annoyance w this playlist at this time
ill try again tomorrow

Are we really being annoying? I hope not.

[KayJayQueue]

rereading naerys vs hu tao and it just feels like two townies who desperately believe they are Correct

If this becomes the majority consensus, I better start rereading this thread because I focused way too much of my energy on figuring out who I believed on the Hu vs Naerys drama just to realize I should’ve been paying more attention to psyche’s read on NAS or the 3 votes on gera that happened in quick succession.

[KayJayQueue]

I would love to have Titus’ opinion on things once they’re caught up. I feel l can’t factor Titus in anywhere until they post something with game substance.

[KayJayQueue]

I worry that the minute I give my opinion on my gut feeling on a few I am strongly feeling are town, I’m going to get responses that say “oh I’ve played with them before, they do this as scum” “don’t pay attention to that” etc etc. I feel like I’m the only one that can’t offer any meta and therefore I’ll never have the full picture that others seem to have. It’s slightly alienating but I’m trying to keep up.

1. No one has the full picture
2. Posts like these are half the reason i can’t seem to comfortably town read KJQ. I feel like she keeps reiterating that she is alienated and confused and struggling to make reads, but i also dont actually feel that anxiety in her posting. I don’t really know how else to explain it

I’m a very anxious person but also a very thorough writer and I express myself best when writing. I only feel alienated when people start referencing other games and meta reads on people’s behavior because it means nothing at all to me unless I just take everyone’s word for it. I suppose I also feel a bit out of the loop when I don’t understand the game terms being used but I feel too embarrassed to continually ask for clarification because I feel like I’m just annoying people at that point.

I won’t deny that I’m struggling to make reads on the people that are either: not engaging with me, or: not engaging at all. I’m probably playing overly-cautious (in my own way, some overly cautious people might just shut up, obviously that’s not me) but I’m just trying to be thorough.

[KayJayQueue]

rereading naerys vs hu tao and it just feels like two townies who desperately believe they are Correct

If this becomes the majority consensus, I better start rereading this thread because I focused way too much of my energy on figuring out who I believed on the Hu vs Naerys drama just to realize I should’ve been paying more attention to psyche’s read on NAS or the 3 votes on gera that happened in quick succession.

Oh and like idk

What is stopping you just clicking psyche’s ISO or the post i just quoted and seeing what you think about it right now?

it feels performative to talk about all the work you gotta do or that you might have to do or that you should’ve done before because if you’re town and genuinely interested in solving, i don’t get why your energies aren’t just focused on doing the solving now

pedit: drew (titus’ predecessor) made posts! What do you think of those??

I can’t do anything about you thinking I’m being “performative”, that’s just how I express myself. And it seems a big unfair to assume I’m not focused on solving things, I’ve been giving this game a lot of my attention. Some things I felt more strongly about and that’s where my attention went. If things I wasn’t giving as much thought to begin to gain steam, I’m just being honest when I say I need to take a better look.

You seem to be jumping on everything I do trying to find a reason to sus me. Yeah, that’s the game, I get it, sus everyone but honestly, it’s getting a bit exhausting. I don’t even have a scum read on you, if anything, being cautious about me is normal as it would be for anyone. I didn’t think anything of it at first. I still think you’re probably more likely town but whatever problem you seem to have with me might get in the way of us working together.

Maybe I’m just overreacting right now because I just worked 59 hours in the past 4 days and I’m mentally drained and still trying to have fun playing this game. I’ll try not to overthink on this since I don’t think pushing back against you is helping us.

[KayJayQueue]

I understand being anxious. Also, please feel free to ask questions and ask about game terms and also to change your mind and be uncertain. No one is going to get annoyed.

to be frank, my issue right now is that I can’t distinguish whether you are town too anxious about being wrong, or mafia using that as a front to look good

I wrote that long ass post in response to your previous post before I saw this and your tone actually feels completely different and genuine here so maybe I just need to sleep.

At least it makes me feel better about thinking you’re probably town.

Anyway. Carry on.

[KayJayQueue]

Doctor Drew felt very one dimensional

I interacted with him only a couple times and we had seemingly opposite reads. I was neutral on him before he was replaced. I’m more interested in the views of the current player.

[KayJayQueue]

rereading naerys vs hu tao and it just feels like two townies who desperately believe they are Correct

Eg, I don't see it.

Gut's screaming at me that one of'em is a wolf.

I play primarily on gut.

I’d rather eliminate neither than both. Because I feel like no matter which one goes, the other will be pushed immediately after.

I think I pretty much understand the reasoning on NAS, not fully sure I buy that line of thinking but at least I understand the why.

Can someone help me understand the geraintm vote? I need to eventually choose a direction here.

[KayJayQueue]

Well originally I had voted Naerys. I took my vote away for two reasons. The reason I just mentioned about not wanting to eliminate both Naerys and Hu (mainly because I am town reading Hu) but also because Naerys was getting close to elimination and I didn’t want the day to end that early. I feel like I’ve learned a lot since I took my vote off so I stand by my decision.

[KayJayQueue]

will be so sweet when i’m proven right about all this. yall waste so much text on things that don’t matter

Oh, well then do explain to us what you think does matter right now.

I have an inkling the answer is going to be about a wiki for some reason.

[KayJayQueue]

I don’t want the day to end until Titus says something even mildly substantial.

[KayJayQueue]

VOTE: NotaScum

Votes immediately after joining and only says hi before changing the vote from psyche to NAS, but with no explanation.

What’s getting me is that Naerys still has a self vote on her…I just don’t get that logic. It’s making me think twice but maybe that’s the point. I don’t know what I’m

supposed

to think about that move.

Exactly my thoughts. Of course I haven't read.

Admits to not having read, so what informed the NAS vote?

Aside from the self vote, why Naeyrs? Why geratum?

Okay, good questions, but also - then why NAS?

[KayJayQueue]

it’s because nas is scummm

And that may be true but right now I’m more interested in how they came to that conclusion before they read and/or what other things they’ve picked up since joining.

[KayJayQueue]

it’s because nas is scummm

And that may be true but right now I’m more interested in how they came to that conclusion before they read and/or what other things they’ve picked up since joining.

It's a mistake to conclude I have deduced anyone is scum at this point. My vote is my power and I intend to use it that way. I set us up long term. I do have a pocket scumread based on the last few pages.

I guess that makes sense (honestly I’m guessing that it

should

make sense, I’m going to have to wait and see because I don’t know what VCA is exactly). You seem to have a lot of experience playing like a good handful of others in this game and I just wanted to know where your head was at but I didn’t really know what to expect.

My conclusion: that didn’t help me much lol

[KayJayQueue]

Well originally I had voted Naerys. I took my vote away for two reasons. The reason I just mentioned about not wanting to eliminate both Naerys and Hu (mainly because I am town reading Hu) but also because Naerys was getting close to elimination and I didn’t want the day to end that early. I feel like I’ve learned a lot since I took my vote off so I stand by my decision.

Why would they be a package deal?

They’re only a package deal if Naerys is town, in my opinion. (even though it’s been floated that they’re both scum and it’s a distancing act, but I can’t subscribe to that theory based on how they’ve interacted). It’s because the one confirmed good person has basically stated that they believe at least one is scum. If Naerys is town, I’m assuming that Hu Tao would be pushed. Obviously it’s an assumption because there’s no way of knowing what kind of information we’ll get during a night phase but I’m operating on the what ifs. Especially with a couple people stating their belief that it’s town vs town. None of this matters if Naerys is eliminated and is scum. I just read Hu Tao as more town than Naerys but others see it the other way around. However, the longer the self vote stays the more she’s seeming town as well which is what worries me as I believe Hu Tao is town. If one is pushed and is town, I know someone will do the easy thing the next day (barring new info) and just start a vote on the other one.

[KayJayQueue]

I’m taking back my “probably town” read on Psyche for the time being. I’m not buying the absolutely certain full tunnel on NAS, I feel like this is a play of some kind but I don’t understand why yet.

[KayJayQueue]

I hate this shit.

I suspect like 12 of you.

That’s tough, but I’ve got it narrowed to 11.

[KayJayQueue]

Naerys, NotAScum, Ari, Gera, PC, Dann

This has all 3 scum

Hmm

[KayJayQueue]

VOTE: Psyche

[KayJayQueue]

And there was like NO resistance to my fail wagon until I played Uno Reverse card.

Klick enters the chat

sounds like you might have known all along tbh.

Doubt it

[KayJayQueue]

i don't think it's nitpicking to read a post as performative

Alright let's say I agree with you. And let's say that a statical analysis was done and it was determined yes that post was performative. I ask you to what end? To not to give a read on her? Gun to my head she is probably scum. Because the whole point of the being performative was that you wanted to make your next contention that I didn't want to give a read on her. Which imo was your main point. So where are we now I gave you my read on her

my point was not that you didn't want to give a read on her, my point was that it didn't seem like the post was driven from the town motivation of either

1) having a read you want to share
2) engaging with people about a read in order to deduce people's alignments

my point was that it's the type of post made to show off your thought process and look towny

idk, it's a genre of post I see scum making a lot because it looks like it's doing something but idk what your actual motivation was to post that if you're town

i don't really care that you scum read Aristeia and it doesn't really seem like you care about that either

I think we're talking past each other.

when I'm making a post I don't think hmmmmmm let me craft this post in such a way that it exudes town motivation I'm just posting. that's all you're seeing. my thoughts on a player my thoughts on this or my position or inkling about something. just like when I said my post about predicting things way back it was both a joke that aristeia wouldn't move on from naerys and that psyche wouldn't engage with me he just started to ignore me completely like ok whatever I'll just move on from him since no one is interested in my read on psyche.

I’m interested

[KayJayQueue]

i really can’t comprehend how people are classing this or naerys as scummier than notascum

notascum is clearly town.

“Clearly” is such a strong word for this situation.

[KayJayQueue]

anyone pushing that it's a joke without asking notascum clearly has ulterior motives.

Assuming it’s not a joke just feels like insulting their intelligence…I made a similar joke when RN said he thinks it could be any of us 12 and I said I narrowed it down to 11 (because we have 1 cleared), does that mean I have ulterior motives? lol

[KayJayQueue]

anyone pushing that it's a joke without asking notascum clearly has ulterior motives.

Assuming it’s not a joke just feels like insulting their intelligence…I made a similar joke when RN said he thinks it could be any of us 12 and I said I narrowed it down to 11 (because we have 1 cleared), does that mean I have ulterior motives? lol

yes actually

You’re right, my motive was to be funny. Doesn’t mean it worked but that was definitely the aim.

In all seriousness though, really? We can’t even make jokes?

[KayJayQueue]

anyone pushing that it's a joke without asking notascum clearly has ulterior motives.

Assuming it’s not a joke just feels like insulting their intelligence…I made a similar joke when RN said he thinks it could be any of us 12 and I said I narrowed it down to 11 (because we have 1 cleared), does that mean I have ulterior motives? lol

yes actually

You’re right, my motive was to be funny. Doesn’t mean it worked but that was definitely the aim.

In all seriousness though, really? We can’t even make jokes?

I don't know your alignment.

Yet you know NAS is clearly town. Englighten us.

[KayJayQueue]

I’ll try to work on editing out the unnecessary quotes from now on. I’ve only been using my phone so far this game because I’ve been traveling for work since Wednesday but I’ll be home today.

[KayJayQueue]

I’ve worked 60 hours since Thursday morning, barely slept, just took two planes home and I’m starving. I’m probably reading nothing in the correct tone right now lol but I have nothing else to do in this Uber so here I am.

[KayJayQueue]

It’s okay I’ll accept that maybe I’m just not as funny as NAS lol

[KayJayQueue]

another town game lost
warning: Hu is really good as scum

Do you have anything ended to add to the discussion besides your opinion on Hu Tao? Why do you still have a self-vote on you? Do you just not care about getting eliminated?

[KayJayQueue]

For those leaning town on Naerys, could you please help me understand that read? I’ve been trying to but I keep reading her posts, but all
it does is frustrate me and doesn’t help me feel better about her at all. I’m trying to land my vote between Naerys and PC right now since it seems it’s one or the other here. Even Hu has backed off Naerys so I don’t know what to think. Of the 4 players I feel best about, currently 2 are voting Naerys and 2 are voting PC.

[KayJayQueue]

For those leaning town on Naerys, could you please help me understand that read? I’ve been trying to but I keep reading her posts, but all
it does is frustrate me and doesn’t help me feel better about her at all. I’m trying to land my vote between Naerys and PC right now since it seems it’s one or the other here. Even Hu has backed off Naerys so I don’t know what to think. Of the 4 players I feel best about, currently 2 are voting Naerys and 2 are voting PC.

I'm confused why us two? just because we are the biggest wagons? their is still 5 days left. any opinions on anyone else? who are the 4 players you feel best about and why? what led you to think they're town or lean town to you?

Answer to your first question is yes, biggest wagons. I don’t know if things will change in the next few days.

The 4 I feel best about are RN for obvious reasons, Dave, klick and Hu Tao. I went into detail a couple times on Hu, if necessary I’ll go back and find those posts for you. Dave and klick are town reads for me based off of my own gut and their overall contributions and interactions thus far.

[KayJayQueue]

Fair enough on the wagons. No worries I can find your posts on Hu tao I'll go and check momentarily. can you tell me what post if any solidified your read for dave and klick? or just their overall postings? that you can't see how their posts or thoughts could come from a scum mindset? What do you think is dave and klicks biggest contribution to the thread so far?

I’ll do Dave first but I don’t know how to link the posts with the number like a few people have done so bare with me:

Dave’s posts that I feel are indicative of being town: 156, 171, 209, 627, 714, 1032, 1122. Not that I agree with everything he has said in these posts but there’s no way we can be right about everything on day 1, so I’m mostly basing this off of just his thought process and interactions. Also, maybe this is a dumb reason to read town but Dan was the most understanding and helpful to my being new and my questions instead of dismissing me or using it against me.

[KayJayQueue]

fixed some post tags I hope that's okay.

so what did you agree with from those posts? Terribly sorry to muck in again, what exactly led you to the conclusion oh these are town posts are coming from someone who is the uninformed majority?

I’m not sure how much info I want to give about everything I agree with or not because it might inform someone else on how to get me on board with them and I don’t want to be played like a fiddle later on. I think I’ve given more than enough info for you to draw a reasonable conclusion on my “why”.

As for klick here are my posts: 134, 144, 244, 387, 389, 425, 468, 703, 1102

Again, take from that what you will, I definitely don’t agree with everything in these posts but as I said, they informed my opinion.

(Thank you for adding the links, I’ll look into how to do that)

[KayJayQueue]

Oh on Wake.

I’m trying really hard not to read too much into this but from what looks like quite an experienced player…I dunno. It’s just a bit weird.

But also from now on can we refer to players by their names in this game because I don’t know any alternate names.

[KayJayQueue]

well that does present some difficulties for me. because I would very much like to know what you agree with and why that led you to believe that they don't have secret information.

If you want you can make a pros and cons list about what telling me the info would do for you or for the town. if you decided the cons outweigh the pros fine but I would like to see the list you made. To me in my head the pros outweigh the cons currently. I can't make any reasonable conclusions about the "why" of it all since you won't tell me and I can't read your mind into what you were thinking. I hope you reconsider.

It’s mostly self-preservation from my perspective. Unless you’re convinced I’m bad at this time and wanting to eliminate me, I don’t know how much my opinion on everything will help you or town but I do know how it will help scum. And honestly even if you voted me in an effort to get this information, I’m not sure I’d respond to that either. I feel like I’ve had a pretty active role in voicing many of my opinions so far and hopefully that’s enough for now. You say you can’t deduce any of my “why”s but if you were to look at my posts, although there are a lot, I do think it’s somewhat apparent some of the things I agree with. I don’t know for sure if Dan/klick have information that I don’t, obviously there’s no way I can know that and it’s possible I have wrong reads, just like you can have wrong reads. It’s Day 1 and this is how I’m feeling, which is very subject to change.

Maybe I’m just being overly cautious because I want to stay alive and be helpful, but I don’t want to be purposely kept alive because scum knows how to lead me down the wrong paths and know I won’t be useful. It’s not a secret that I’m inexperienced and I don’t want to become a liability. So unless I get more pushback (like multiple people) about not sharing all of my opinions right now, I’m going to assume I’ve added enough to the discourse with the way I currently engage and can continue doing the same.

[KayJayQueue]

the paranoid part of me would think that maybe you don't think flipping naerys looks very good for you

If that were true I feel like they’d have pulled back before today, since Naerys was so close to elimination a few days ago. I’m wondering if the change now is just fatigue because of resistance to their position. It does feel like a weird change but I’d have felt more alarm bells going off if it happened earlier.

Also, with Naerys not engaging much at all with the game, it’s just hard to keep any momentum going on reading her. This is probably the entire point of her being scarce, and that feels weird to me if she’s town.

[KayJayQueue]

I think I will say fos on kjq after our interaction the ending while seeming sincere I can't wrap my head around not wanting to share more because you might be tricked feels a bit contrived reasoning to me.

It’s not just that, I really believe I have shared a ton so far. If you’re worried about me not giving you enough info in my nearly-100 posts in this game so far, how are you feeling on those that barely speak?

[KayJayQueue]

If that were true I feel like they’d have pulled back before today, since Naerys was so close to elimination a few days ago.

well, the situation has changed somewhat with naerys going from hard tunneling hu tao back to self voting and doing nothing

You’re right. But that only makes me more confused about what naerys is doing.

[KayJayQueue]

You’re right. But that only makes me more confused about what naerys is doing.

my point is more the optics of hard pushing someone who is hard pushing you back are a lot better than hard pushing someone who has given up and self voted

but i don't understand why hu tao would care about that if the certainty of her scum read on naerys still remains

I’m thinking I’ve been letting my initial opinion on this situation cloud my judgement on what’s happening now so I’ll step back and wait for a response from Hu and hopefully naerys, and then reevaluate what I think about both.

[KayJayQueue]

That could be fair from your point of view but then it begs the question why not share more why not share what ultimately is the most important part why you think they're the uninformed majority. Because going through those posts that you linked left me scratching my head a bit thinking I don't see what kjq is seeing. How much you posts doesn't matter imo nor does how much content you have. I have made my stance on some posters who don't have that much content that they are town i.e. not a scum. feel free to ask about someone else or others.

I agree that how much someone posts isn’t enough on its own to figure out alignment. I disagree that the content of what is posted also doesn’t matter. Hopefully as time goes on, you’ll get a clearer opinion on me.

[KayJayQueue]

Ari Dan Psyche? Thoughts on that being the team.

2/3 could be right. I’m not seeing Dan as scum currently. I know you think that him pushing back on everything you say is giving you a scum read (or something like that, I can’t remember what you said word for word) but he did the same to me. Maybe you have experience with him and can make a more informed opinion on him, but to me it just seems like town trying to figure out who is bad by gauging their responses to his slightly aggressive play style. If scum, what is the reason for it? Seeing what others jump on and then push for it? I’m genuinely asking, I don’t know what is usual or unusual here.

[KayJayQueue]

no

This is getting ridiculous.

[KayJayQueue]

no

This is getting ridiculous.

yes

Please give me a reason not to switch my vote back to you.

If you’re not interested in playing, I don’t understand why you’re in the game.

[KayJayQueue]

I want to get into the nitty gritty with this game but I need some prompting
My gut feeling is that this is quite solvable. But I don't currently have the structure to make thoughts cohesive

Someone ask me about stuff

Who should we be eliminating Day 1 and why?

[KayJayQueue]

I guess what kind of player would mean I need to know what kinds of players there are. Do you mean like quiet vs aggressive vs non-committal? If so, yes, what is the right play in your opinion?

[KayJayQueue]

To be clear, I lean towards town for Naerys at the moment and would like to increase my confidence in that. But if I look into it more deeply and decide that's wrong that is also a good conclusion

Okay I’m on board with solving Naerys because it’s bothering me, as I’m sure you can tell. How exactly do we work it out?

[KayJayQueue]

can you tell me what post if any solidified your read for dave and klick? or just their overall postings?

What do you think is dave and klicks biggest contribution to the thread so far?

Klick’s most recent posts in the last page or so can also answer this question. Just feels very town to me. There’s always a possibility of putting on a show to convince us, but I feel the actions are sincere.

[KayJayQueue]

I'm not really entertaining hu tao/naerys as SvS, I think that's kind of ridiculous and the frustration from both sides seems real enough and... sloppy enough? that I doubt it is theatre

I don't think its outside the realm of possibility

Datisi's mod meta for complex setups is to include scum roles that are better to yeet for the scum team than others

What does this mean exactly?

[KayJayQueue]

I think one of the reasons the tilt would make sense is if naerys just wanted to distance off HT with the vote, then when HT got run up couldnt figure out a way to exit and they had some kind of argument in the scum PT and hu tao yelled at her to get off and she decided to die rather than play on the same team as HT

This feels like fan fiction lol

[KayJayQueue]

the last mini normal he modded had a town IC/Ninja enabler that killing it would make the mafia not ninjas.

the mini normal before that had an alien enabler mafia which if limmed disabled a town tpr.

the point I'm making here is that because of the complex rating and the mod meta there can be distinction between the scum roles such that one scum role would be much better for the town to yeet than another.

and if naerys is the weaker scum role and she distanced off Hu tao (the stronger scum role) and then hu tao got mad at her because the direction of the bussing is wrong that would explain the tilt that went on in the thread.

So then based off of this, you think they could both be scum but the better elimination for us today is Hu Tao?

[KayJayQueue]

So then based off of this, you think they could both be scum but the better elimination for us today is Hu Tao?

yea thats the point im making

or I guess we could always just yeet naerys and if she is like a "weak scum role" like "XXX enabler" then we yeet Hu tao tommorrow?

This goes back to my original worry when the vote was close on naerys initially. If naerys came up town, Hu Tao would be pushed next. If she came up scum, there are still people that would push Hu (like you just confirmed). I don’t particularly like that potential timeline. This was the reason I originally unvoted Naerys.

[KayJayQueue]

can you tell me what post if any solidified your read for dave and klick? or just their overall postings?

What do you think is dave and klicks biggest contribution to the thread so far?

Klick’s most recent posts in the last page or so can also answer this question. Just feels very town to me. There’s always a possibility of putting on a show to convince us, but I feel the actions are sincere.

you think their biggest contribution is their most recent posting? that doesn't alarm you? or am I misunderstanding something?

Not biggest contribution necessary but I thought you asked for examples of why I thought they were town. This is a newer example if the previous ones I gave you didn’t help you understand where I was coming from.

[KayJayQueue]

People must not be paying attention because my full role is not just IC.

I have no idea what this means. Am I missing something right in front of my face?

[KayJayQueue]

town is
Me
Rn
not a scum
titus
hu tao
naerys
dann - leaning town
aristea - leaning town

Im unsure of Dave

i'm leaning scum on
kjq
klick
gera
psyche

Is the reason you were pushing back on me so much to give you my reasoning for believing klick is town because you were scum-reading them? That makes a lot more sense than just wanting info for the sake of it when I wasn’t really hiding much.

[KayJayQueue]

it's not like it was a secret.

Well, I guess it just didn’t register to me then. Because last I remember you were pretty adamant on Aristeia and then the next big thing was the NAS joke issue so I guess I didn’t realize klick was a problem for you. Speaking of, why is Ari suddenly town for you? Just her interaction with Titus earlier?

[KayJayQueue]

it's not like it was a secret.

Well, I guess it just didn’t register to me then. Because last I remember you were pretty adamant on Aristeia and then the next big thing was the NAS joke issue so I guess I didn’t realize klick was a problem for you. Speaking of, why is Ari suddenly town for you? Just her interaction with Titus earlier?

that's all it takes. like a bolt from the heavens really.

That’s fine, just wanted confirmation that was what happened.

[KayJayQueue]

why does naerys even choose to stick around as town for so long after her self vote? at best it stretches credibility. rather than giving up on the game, i think she's been invested this whole time and believing that lurking provides a low effort way to sidestep suspicion

I guess I assumed if someone really felt done with the game and wanted out, they’d ask to be replaced? Staying around has to mean she actually does care about playing. I just don’t understand the way she’s been going about it. I’m extremely confused and all the theories are making my head spin because even these theories don’t explain everything she’s done.

[KayJayQueue]

it's not like it was a secret.

Well, I guess it just didn’t register to me then. Because last I remember you were pretty adamant on Aristeia and then the next big thing was the NAS joke issue so I guess I didn’t realize klick was a problem for you. Speaking of, why is Ari suddenly town for you? Just her interaction with Titus earlier?

that's all it takes. like a bolt from the heavens really.

So with that, now that you feel Ari is leaning town, what do you think about her SvS theory about naerys and hu? I’d like to hear your opinion.

[KayJayQueue]

why does naerys even choose to stick around as town for so long after her self vote? at best it stretches credibility. rather than giving up on the game, i think she's been invested this whole time and believing that lurking provides a low effort way to sidestep suspicion

I guess I assumed if someone really felt done with the game and wanted out, they’d ask to be replaced? Staying around has to mean she actually does care about playing. I just don’t understand the way she’s been going about it. I’m extremely confused and all the theories are making my head spin because even these theories don’t explain everything she’s done.

be careful close to breaking the rules.

Wait, please tell me, I didn’t realize anything I said was close to rule breaking and I feel like I’ve reread them many times. Which part is against the rules?

[KayJayQueue]

Well after rereading the rules again, I want to be perfectly clear that I am not telling anyone that they should ask to be replaced. I was just stating an assumption I had about how people were playing and what it meant. I hope no one actually took it that way, as that was not my intention in the slightest.

[KayJayQueue]

UNVOTE: Psyche

[KayJayQueue]

anyway whatever klick's not joining the naeyrs wagon got it
i'll see who else is shopping

Well Naerys finally unvoted herself and I’m not too sure after all this discussion that she’s scum. But I don’t particularly think I want to vote PC either, even though I don’t agree with their reads. I don’t know who else to vote for right now because I also got over my weird feeling about you.

[KayJayQueue]

the annoying part about all this is that town do emotional manipulation all the time. i do it almost every time i'm close to being limmed. what is a temper tantrum anyway if not an attempt as emotional manipulation. in this essay, i will explain why notascum is still the best choice for elimination

But your vote is on naerys lol

[KayJayQueue]

alas none of yall are emotionally ready to accept the reality of his betrayal

Bring it onnnn lol

[KayJayQueue]

what is everybody's read on dave

My read is town but as I told PC earlier I might have been overly influenced by how he interacted with me initially and how nice and helpful he was which made me feel comfortable. Or maybe he’s just nice!

[KayJayQueue]

Naerys is at E-2

Just to be clear

In your opinion, who is the best vote right now if you think Naerys is town? You soft-read NAS as town but then said it was fine if we voted that way today, so would that be your pick?

[KayJayQueue]

Naerys is at E-2

Just to be clear

In your opinion, who is the best vote right now if you think Naerys is town? You soft-read NAS as town but then said it was fine if we voted that way today, so would that be your pick?

Could you quote those two posts for me please?

These

I looked through NotAScum's ISO again and while I'm not like super sold on him being town, I do think he's more likely to be town than scum

I kind of like how his focus on Hu Tao feels. It has such a detachment from everything else going on in the game. Seriously, ISO NAS and see how his progression on Hu Tao looks. He has a nagging suspicion there from start to finish. I wouldn't call finding Hu Tao scummy much of a natural political take, especially at this stage of the game. And so the way that read just kind of persists makes me feel like it might just be there because... NAS just actually believes Hu Tao is scummy.

Like I said, not that strong of a read, but I think there could be something there

sorry klick i don't really vibe with your read on him at all

I think tunneling on one slot in a rather isolated fashion is a rather common strategy for scum to employ. it makes it easy to make real looking posts without having to expend a lot of energy. i think 910 feels more like a question scum would ask than town would ask

Sure that's fine
I don't feel like NotAScum would be an egregious slot to test at all

Unless I misunderstood these posts, that’s what I got out of them.

[KayJayQueue]

ig I'm kind of opposed to limming NAS because I think Hu Tao is scummy and I don't really think NAS!scum keeps tunneling Hu!scum

the way both hu/naerys reacted negatively to me saying they're S/S feels rlly off.

like I don't really see why naerys!town would come out of exile to contest my theory when like she was fine with being voted out as is.

and I don't really think Hu thinks I'm scum/scum with Naerys and that I'm trying to chain lim her off a Naerys scum flip.

Both of those reactions feel really off to me.

Do you only think Hu/Naerys are scum if they are both scum? Is there a world where only one is and if so, which? I feel like I understand your stance on them both being scum with Hu having the more powerful role, but I’m just wondering about other options including one or the other, or neither.

[KayJayQueue]

I’m still not ruling out fan fiction but I’m at least less adamant on my previous read on Hu. (I hadn’t considered Hu’s actions in the way you are framing them, I was going off of purely how the situation felt to me) I still lean town though, for now, and I will definitely not vote her day 1. And I’d definitely need more than one viewpoint that I could consider.

[KayJayQueue]

Titus, PC, why are you on Aristeia and not Naerys?

Because I'm confident there.

Based on?

Her passive behavior and now they're asinine Hu Naerys theory. She and Dan are very much hard defending each other when they both have little suspicion on them. Dan's taken a hostile attitude towards me since I came in. Could be s v s partners or one scum with a pocketed town.

Wait I think I missed the hard defending, could you point me toward those posts please?

[KayJayQueue]

Oops I thought you had said Dave not Dan. Disregard.

[KayJayQueue]

Apparently I sleep at the wrong times. And already we have another self vote? Okay, this is going to get interesting. (Are self votes this common? I find it odd but if it’s normal I will stop getting hung up on it)

[KayJayQueue]

I’m at work but in a few hours I’ll be able to catch up properly and not just skim.

[KayJayQueue]

If Klick was vigged, Dannflor is likely scum.

if cows were horses we wouldn’t have milk

I mean….you’re not wrong!

[KayJayQueue]

Checking in quickly.
Not sure of the night kill, but I ain't going to waste time speculating on the reasoning.

So you think day 1 is a waste of time, you don’t want to speculate on what happened at night…what exactly

is

worth your time then?

[KayJayQueue]

The resistance to Naerys wagon is getting difficult to ignore.

I’m thinking Naerys is scum and her partners are trying to prevent her launch.

I was asleep when hammer happened but I don't think I’d have been part of that vote. While I still believe Hu Tao is town, I can’t say I’d have been pressured to vote Naerys (and most likely be the hammer) after she unvoted herself and klick was giving good reasons to not jump on, even with Random Nurse so adamantly pushing the vote. So you can definitively put me in the “not voting Naerys” group, I know Dave wanted to make sure to look at that group.

[KayJayQueue]

well you'd be objectively wrong.

not voting [4]: Naerys, KayJayQueue, Political Clout, Psyche

I have at least weak suspicions of two of the living on this list, so no I'm not wrong.

So then it’s just me, PC and psyche that didn’t vote Naerys?

[KayJayQueue]

maybe its just Hu Tao + Titus + Psyche

Ari+Dann+Psyche. Bonus if there's a vig.

Can you explain the vig part/how it informs your read on those 3? I’m not sure I’m following the vig stuff being brought up today. Is there a specific strategy for vig? Is it bad strategy at this point for the vig to claim anything or stay silent?

[KayJayQueue]

we should be killing off notascum

I can be convinced of this probably. The hammer there, that post being a joke changes everything I think. It just really feels like an unripe fruit. Maybe it is just that easy.

Was it just the hammer that changed your mind? I still never understood the debate over his joke meaning anything one way or the other. Why did everything change from day 1 when you were repeatedly adamant NAS was town in posts like this:

notascum is clearly town.

I’m just wanting to understand getting from point A to point B.

[KayJayQueue]

What does openwolfing mean?

[KayJayQueue]

I don’t necessarily think Dave is pivoting completely to NAS after saying to look at the non-voters. There’s more than 1 scum so I think he just meant we shouldn’t ignore the people that weren’t on the wagon. NAS can be scum along with someone that didn’t vote naerys. At least that’s what I got out of what he has been saying.

[KayJayQueue]

I guess that was my impression of an echo lol

[KayJayQueue]

just for the record…
i think davesaz is lying about why he’s scumreading me

What do you think is the real reason?

[KayJayQueue]

if nas flips town ill apologize and shut up

if you dont have a result on NAS and he's town and you're town this is borderline game throwing but tbh i really want to lose this game

…why would you want to lose?

[KayJayQueue]

This has devolved into chaos. I have no idea what to think about the last couple pages.

[KayJayQueue]

and then Random Nurse opens the day with "i think klick got vigged and the mafia tried to kill me" and i'm like what universe do you even live in

Maybe he wanted to get in on the fan fiction too!

[KayJayQueue]

This has devolved into chaos. I have no idea what to think about the last couple pages.

KJQ if you're mafia the best thing you can do is just log off and wait for the town to kill itself instead of pretending to try to figure out what's going on.

if you're town uh sorry but this might not be a good game.

Is this not how games normally go? This is literally my first game ever here. And it does feel a bit…extreme. I’m trying to help but I’m not quite sure why things are getting so intense at random times.

[KayJayQueue]

this is the worst game I have ever played on this website

Well…crap

[KayJayQueue]

Hu I honestly forgot you had the NAS read before naerys, I’m glad you posted that but was your read solely based off his first post sounding nervous or was there more to it?

[KayJayQueue]

Kay why aren't you voting NAS

I was waiting for Dann’s input tbh

[KayJayQueue]

Hu I honestly forgot you had the NAS read before naerys, I’m glad you posted that but was your read solely based off his first post sounding nervous or was there more to it?

No. I mean his end of day was sus with the quick hammer when he started being sussed.

Gotcha. Is hammering someone usually indicative of guilt? Because I’ll be honest, I don’t have a great feeling about NAS but if I had been awake at that time, it would’ve been possible I got pressured into the Naerys vote by RN. I want to believe I wouldn’t have done it especially because I was feeling good about klick and they were against it. However, RN being cleared and so aggressive about that vote, I probably would’ve just done it if I kept getting pressured. Not that I think that’s why NAS voted…there’s only two real possibilities and one is that he’s scum.

[KayJayQueue]

I don’t think we should be beating ourselves up about naerys. Everyone should remember that was acting extremely odd as town. She got seemingly quite upset, self-voted, stopped responding, trolled, then came back and sort of began to play again right before getting eliminated. (too little too late, unfortunately) She should be shouldering some of the blame here and not the rest of us for reacting to those weird actions. Yes, we made a mistake but she certainly didn’t help the situation.

[KayJayQueue]

I’m not saying I don’t care, I just don’t think Naerys was helping us and it added to our mistake of eliminating her. I can’t even tell if you’re being hyperbolic or not, but I’m pretty sure we’re all upset that we eliminated town. I just don’t think this infighting is helping us get to the right decisions. I’m finding it hard to tell who seems genuine in these last handful of pages and who (if anyone) is just keeping this going to muck things up.

[KayJayQueue]

We made one miselim and a VT got killed. Really not a terrible situation

Not a good situation either, particularly when 2 more (1 mislim + 1 nk) will get added soon. The only world where its beneficial to you is when youre scum.

If this is you claiming you’d be a mislim, do you have anyone you’d rather see pushed with more evidence than just Hu jumping on a wagon and then self-voting? (you’d have to vote half the players if that’s your stance) Is there literally anything that’s happened after post 183 that you can offer to support this Hu vote or give a different option? If not, I’m voting you.

[KayJayQueue]

Fair warning, if NAS doesn’t answer me or gives some bs non-answer, I’m placing my vote and it’ll be E-1.

[KayJayQueue]

Well I’m not going to hammer until I hear more from a few people. And I still want Dann’s opinion here. Also, if RN has anything else to add. I don’t want us to be ending the day without a little more discussion but I’m pro-NAS elimination at the moment.

[KayJayQueue]

If this is you claiming you’d be a mislim, do you have anyone you’d rather see pushed with more evidence than just Hu jumping on a wagon and then self-voting? (you’d have to vote half the players if that’s your stance) Is there literally anything that’s happened after post 183 that you can offer to support this Hu vote or give a different option? If not, I’m voting you.

Fair warning, if NAS doesn’t answer me or gives some bs non-answer, I’m placing my vote and it’ll be E-1.

This feels like you're trying hard to find any excuse to vote me. Curious, you've never shown any intent on voting me so far, just when a train forms on me you're full on finding any excuse to vote? Go ahead and help yourself then. As for your questions, I've already answered them.

I’m pretty sure me saying I’m going to vote you shows my intent. The only reason I’m not is because it would be hammer and I still wanted to hear from a couple people. I was open to you over Naerys day 1 once klick had fully formed their opinion (and as I expressed, klick was one of my biggest town reads so I took more interest in their opinion) but I was asleep when you hammered Naerys.

Now, taking day 1, night 1 and the last day into account, I don’t see a reason not to be sussing you. You’re acting (in this post I’m replying to) like you’ve been super forthcoming with your reads but it’s just been Hu Tao for the most part (all because of the self-vote, or at least originally) with a side of Psyche. No reasoning behind psyche either except from what I can tell, they were onto you day 1 and that was your defense.

[KayJayQueue]

i think we have this dialogue w dann re: clout/nas
give nurse the room to provide updated reads
reflect on what the town consensus looks like after that
talk it all over one more time
and then let chips fall how they fall

I agree with this
still ideal imo

[KayJayQueue]

i think we have this dialogue w dann re: clout/nas
give nurse the room to provide updated reads
reflect on what the town consensus looks like after that
talk it all over one more time
and then let chips fall how they fall

still ideal imo

I agree with this

(Sorry, phone mishap)

[KayJayQueue]

I’m pretty sure me saying I’m going to vote you shows my intent. The only reason I’m not is because it would be hammer and I still wanted to hear from a couple people. I was open to you over Naerys day 1 once klick had fully formed their opinion (and as I expressed, klick was one of my biggest town reads so I took more interest in their opinion) but I was asleep when you hammered Naerys.

Now, taking day 1, night 1 and the last day into account, I don’t see a reason not to be sussing you. You’re acting (in this post I’m replying to) like you’ve been super forthcoming with your reads but it’s just been Hu Tao for the most part (all because of the self-vote, or at least originally) with a side of Psyche. No reasoning behind psyche either except from what I can tell, they were onto you day 1 and that was your defense.

You're saying you were open to voting me D1? Can you show me where? And now youe also saying klick was one of your biggest town read (which I cant find anywhere), just after they died? Again please show us where you said klick was looking town. This feels like baseless claims to appear more townish. Why werent your forthcoming with these claims earlier? Why didnt you voted me yesterday and are now claiming I was big on your scum list? The one and only conclusion is you must be scum.

No reasoning behind psyche was given, why are you spreading this false information here? Psyche is quite obvious scum because theyre going along with HT rather well, I said this before, read into my ISO. Im not suspecting him for being onto me in D1, but rather for the reason I already gave. Since Naerys was my 3rd suspect after HT and psyche in D1 and is now dead, youve taken up their spot.

I’m not “now” saying klick was one of my obvious town reads, I’ve been saying it. Here are some examples:

Right now, I’m here:

Town: Random Nurse, Klick
Probably town: davesaz, Hu Tao, Psyche
No opinion: Titus, Dannflor
Unsure: geraintm, Political Clout
Need more info: Aristeia, NotAScum
Possibly scum: Naerys

If I were to vote right now, it would have to be Naerys but I’m open to the other options.

The 4 I feel best about are RN for obvious reasons, Dave, klick and Hu Tao. I went into detail a couple times on Hu, if necessary I’ll go back and find those posts for you. Dave and klick are town reads for me based off of my own gut and their overall contributions and interactions thus far.

As for klick here are my posts: 134, 144, 244, 387, 389, 425, 468, 703, 1102

can you tell me what post if any solidified your read for dave and klick? or just their overall postings?

What do you think is dave and klicks biggest contribution to the thread so far?

Klick’s most recent posts in the last page or so can also answer this question. Just feels very town to me. There’s always a possibility of putting on a show to convince us, but I feel the actions are sincere.

[KayJayQueue]

Why werent your forthcoming with these claims earlier? Why didnt you voted me yesterday and are now claiming I was big on your scum list? The one and only conclusion is you must be scum.

No reasoning behind psyche was given, why are you spreading this false information here? Psyche is quite obvious scum because theyre going along with HT rather well, I said this before, read into my ISO. Im not suspecting him for being onto me in D1, but rather for the reason I already gave. Since Naerys was my 3rd suspect after HT and psyche in D1 and is now dead, youve taken up their spot.

I didn’t vote you because I was asleep lol I didn’t say you were big on my scum list (but you were near the bottom of my list as I posted) but I was listening to others’ opinions I thought were better than the ones wanting Naerys (which I gave reason multiple times for unvoting and being skeptical of after she unvoted herself)

It’s funny you tell me to read your ISO when you clearly never looked at mine or you’d see your argument against me, re: klick, is ridiculous.

[KayJayQueue]

how have your reads changed after the flips

Like my full list?

[KayJayQueue]

what's your reads list now?

Town: Random Nurse
Leaning town: Dannflor, davesaz, Hu Tao
Unsure: Political Clout, Psyche, Aristeia
Possibly scum: Titus, geraintm
Flailing: NotAScum

My leaning town and unsure lists could honestly be combined right now. Those 6 I’m trying to figure out but I need more info and more perspectives. The weird late night (for me) Ari/psyche/Hu convo was just extremely confusing and disjointed, and I’m not sure what it accomplished besides making my brain numb but it definitely didn’t make me feel like I had a great read on any of them. But I am still going to lean town on Hu right now, I don’t have any jarring reason not to.

[KayJayQueue]

I didn’t vote you because I was asleep lol I didn’t say you were big on my scum list (but you were near the bottom of my list as I posted)

I can see from 782 that you lumped me into "Need more info" category. There are also "No opinion" & "Unsure" categories. You deliberately made multiple vague categories and lumped most of the players there to later claim "see I suspected you!!!" depending upon lim flip. Youre not being helpful by being vague and opportunistic.

Okay whatever. The list is clearly in an order. Yes I didn’t have 100% reads on day 1, and it’s my first game so I’m sorry if my lists aren’t labeled to your liking. I still feel like I’ve been way more helpful than you by actually participating in the discussion. I might not know the ins and outs of the game but I’m at least trying. You barely said a word day 1 and now your ass is on the line and you’re suddenly active. I don’t think I’m being opportunistic but you’re going to argue against everything I say, so I don’t feel like it’s worth my time to defend myself. (to you)

[KayJayQueue]

what's your reads list now?

Town: Random Nurse
Leaning town: Dannflor,

davesaz, Hu Tao

Unsure: Political Clout, Psyche,

Aristeia

Possibly scum:

Titus, geraintm

Flailing: NotAScum

My leaning town and unsure lists could honestly be combined right now. Those 6 I’m trying to figure out but I need more info and more perspectives. The weird late night (for me) Ari/psyche/Hu convo was just extremely confusing and disjointed, and I’m not sure what it accomplished besides making my brain numb but it definitely didn’t make me feel like I had a great read on any of them. But I am still going to lean town on Hu right now, I don’t have any jarring reason not to.

I think we should kill in the wagon what do you think? The underlined people were on the naerys wagon.

I see the argument for that and I defer to those with more experience if that’s more likely to catch scum. I’d prefer the ones lowest on my list if we’re going to do that. And before we get close to eliminating, I still want to hear from dann, RN and maybe more from Dave too.

Does NAS not count as wagon because he was hammer? I don’t really know what the terms fully encompass. But I think it’s obvious that currently, I’m not feeling great about NAS lol

[KayJayQueue]

I’m still not sold on Hu Tao possibly being bad, my read on her has pretty much stayed town since that whole naerys debacle. Dave was originally a pretty strong town read for me but now I’m just kind of indifferent, but not enough to read him as anything but a question mark. Ari is a mystery to me after the past 24 hours. Truly, I just can’t see why scum would act that way but I didn’t understand why naerys would act the way she did and she was then so I don’t really know what conclusions to draw about Ari (and to a lesser degree) psyche after last night. The other 3 possibilities to me seem better but I’m biased since that’s literally the entire bottom of my read list.

[KayJayQueue]

NAS - what is your opinion on Aristeia?

[KayJayQueue]

I’m still not sold on Hu Tao possibly being bad, my read on her has pretty much stayed town since that whole naerys debacle. Dave was originally a pretty strong town read for me but now I’m just kind of indifferent, but not enough to read him as anything but a question mark. Ari is a mystery to me after the past 24 hours. Truly, I just can’t see why scum would act that way but I didn’t understand why naerys would act the way she did and she was then so I don’t really know what conclusions to draw about Ari (and to a lesser degree) psyche after last night. The other 3 possibilities to me seem better but I’m biased since that’s literally the entire bottom of my read list.

I forgot if I asked but what's your extent of playing mafia?

I played a couple games on discord around 2020-2021. Other than that, I watch some games that are put out on YouTube but my experience as a player is limited to just a few, around Covid time.

[KayJayQueue]

Gonna he honest, Kay has been giving me some scum pings today. But unsure.

I’ve definitely been reactive today and also more aggressive. I think I might be a little exasperated with the overall trajectory this game has taken, as a lot of people’s actions have utterly confused me, and it’s coming out as confrontational. I can try to step back but I find it hard to read new posts and not immediately want to add my input. (this may be a personal problem lol)

[KayJayQueue]

sorry,

i

should have been more specific
can you point out specific posts that are scummy and tell us why you feel that way

It's not a specific post more like a mood. They seemed to be more in the conversation day 1. And seem to have taken a step back day 2. Something I think I could see scum doing especially after that day 1. But I don't think it's enough go say she's scum or anything

Wait you feel I’ve taken a step back today? I feel literally insane right now, because I feel like I haven’t shut up lol this game is making everything feel backwards. I need to go drink a bottle of water and chill for 10 minutes (I say this but watch me respond to Dann the minute after he posts again lol)

[KayJayQueue]

How? I haven't ruled out Klick as a vig shot. I think if Klick is not a vig shot, Klick's reads are a good place to start. I just see Dannflor posturing and feel ick though.

Wouldn’t the vig have come forward if that’s what happened?

[KayJayQueue]

why would the vig come forward

I thought someone said they would or should, I might’ve misremembered but I’ll go back and look.

[KayJayQueue]

NaS just feels tonally very towny today and i kinda think if they were scum here they would not care so much about their KJQ suspicions after claiming

I’ll try to consider this. I admit I was only seeing it from one side as if he were guilty, but I guess it’s possible someone would/could be just as defensive as town. I just have to figure out which feels right in this situation. My gut is still leaning toward scum but I’ll try not to be so tunnel-y.

[KayJayQueue]

geraint on d1: i like to get to night 1 so that the game can start properly

also geraint on d2: speculating later on might be useful, after only night 1 not so much

Exactly what frustrated me earlier:

Checking in quickly.
Not sure of the night kill, but I ain't going to waste time speculating on the reasoning.

So you think day 1 is a waste of time, you don’t want to speculate on what happened at night…what exactly

is

worth your time then?

[KayJayQueue]

Where are we now on launching?

(At work so can barely post.)

I can tell you I don’t think Ari is going to gain any traction, most are town reading her after the past day. Also, there’s some fun new developments with Titus!

[KayJayQueue]

Why am I scum??? I've done nothing scummy all game?? Tell me what I've done?
I think you have barely mentioned me this game?

I think this sums it up:

Checking in quickly.
Not sure of the night kill, but I ain't going to waste time speculating on the reasoning.

So you think day 1 is a waste of time, you don’t want to speculate on what happened at night…what exactly

is

worth your time then?

It’s not a lot to go on but you haven’t given much…

[KayJayQueue]

Why am I scum??? I've done nothing scummy all game?? Tell me what I've done?
I think you have barely mentioned me this game?

I think this sums it up:

Checking in quickly.
Not sure of the night kill, but I ain't going to waste time speculating on the reasoning.

So you think day 1 is a waste of time, you don’t want to speculate on what happened at night…what exactly

is

worth your time then?

It’s not a lot to go on but you haven’t given much…

No, I haven't. But absence of content does not equal scum.

I don’t dispute that but I’m still going to keep you at that point in my list for now. Absence of content also doesn’t prove town in any way. So if you’re a null at best and I have better feelings about most of the others, you’re going to land near the bottom of my list.

[KayJayQueue]

hey so who still cares about this game

I dooo

[KayJayQueue]

what are your strongest feelings about the game right now?

like strongest town feelings / strongest scum feelings, etc.

I know I’ve been accused of being vague but I really am confused. I thought I was confident in my scum read on NAS, but now there’s been a lot of pushback. And I’m also not feeling gera but that could just be that I really don’t vibe with his play style. Titus was one of my stronger scum reads and then bam, came out with her info so I feel stupid for leaning that way. I still feel Hu Tao and Dave are town. As for you, I can’t tell if you’re town or just amazing at the game. (could be both, but it’s tripping me up lol) The rest are just…who fucking knows. I’m not understanding the motivations or day 2 actions and/or convos for the other 3: psyche, PC, Ari.

[KayJayQueue]

We were never making a good choice yesterday

That’s a weird thing to seem certain about, or am I just reading into it too much. Hmm.

[KayJayQueue]

We were never making a good choice yesterday

That’s a weird thing to seem certain about, or am I just reading into it too much. Hmm.

A good choice has strong logic behind it. Day 1 there is never strong logic behind an elimination, it is 10 guts and 3 scum pushing who they want.

This is actually pretty insightful, though I don't agree that it isn't possible to have a logical push d1. Most logic based d1 scum lims are the result of a mistake by scum.

This is basically the reason for how I responded the way I did. Saying we had no chance of making the right choice just seems weird. Throw all the statistics and odds out that you want but this just feels like too little too late justification for doing next to nothing day 1 when many of us were having constant conversations about what was best to do. It’s easy to say after the fact that it was pointless once you know the result.

[KayJayQueue]

This is basically the reason for how I responded the way I did. Saying we had no chance of making the right choice just seems weird. Throw all the statistics and odds out that you want but this just feels like too little too late justification for doing next to nothing day 1 when many of us were having constant conversations about what was best to do. It’s easy to say after the fact that it was pointless once you know the result.

geraintm says this in every game he plays

Oh. Well that’s unfortunate for my read then. I guess I should be doing research into how people play previous games if I want a full idea of why things are happening. But that just feels so tedious…

[KayJayQueue]

Oh. Well that’s unfortunate for my read then. I guess I should be doing research into how people play previous games if I want a full idea of why things are happening. But that just feels so tedious…

it doesnt make him town it just makes him unreadable

That’s what I mean by it being unfortunate to my read lol it basically means I have no read (on him)

[KayJayQueue]

but I think I can update my scum list, particularly KJQ's rank.

UNVOTE: Hu Tao

Can’t say I didn’t bring that on myself lol

But I’m glad you finally stopped tunneling Hu, maybe we can get somewhere now.

[KayJayQueue]

im rushing and probably not articulating correctly but the idea that scum literally never provide good reasons to vote for them on D1 just feels like a fake belief you'd give to a character in a story to make his actions believable and drive the story's action, especially on someone with a 2006 join date...

The theme of this game is officially “fan fiction” confirmed!

[KayJayQueue]

if her reads are wrong, it's only because she's a bit anchored on hutao. town should maybe try more to get on the same page about that slot

Wait which slot are we talking about? Also, have we really been alienating? I hope not.

[KayJayQueue]

I’m not the best person to ask about Hu Tao seeing as I’ve been town reading Hu since almost the beginning. I think I’m too deep in that read/feeling that I’ve fully convinced myself.

[KayJayQueue]

I feel like I care more about who the elimination

isn’t

so I may be adding to that problem.

[KayJayQueue]

do you want to eliminate hu tao, ari

yes

No

[KayJayQueue]

what if we yeeted our IC

would it make the game more winnable

maybe it would

I may be new but this feels like a bad idea? lol

[KayJayQueue]

My favorite thing about this game is the disdain that drips from Ari every time she mentions RN

[KayJayQueue]

I literally cannot see a path to Hu Tao being scum. I think we’re going in circles trying to find reasons Hu might be bad. If we’re voting NAS, I’m fine with it. PC? Sure let’s do it. But I think we’re chasing our tails with the Hu discussion. I’m ready to put Hu next to RN on my list.

[KayJayQueue]

I literally cannot see a path to Hu Tao being scum. I think we’re going in circles trying to find reasons Hu might be bad. If we’re voting NAS, I’m fine with it. PC? Sure let’s do it. But I think we’re chasing our tails with the Hu discussion. I’m ready to put Hu next to RN on my list.

can you say why hu tao can't be scum

*gestures to entire ISO*
Obviously this is rooted in my subjective opinion. I just personally don’t see how a hypothetical Hu-scum plays day 1 that way. I’m being incredibly stubborn about my read because it’s the one I believe in the most. Is there a world where I’m wrong? Well sure. But one of us has to be right eventually, don’t we?!

[KayJayQueue]

inb4 I don't want to because scum will kill me again lmao.

No I think I’ve gotten past that lol if I’m loud and wrong, I’m probably an easy lock to live as the village idiot. If I’m right, well that’s all the satisfaction I need because then if I did, I’ll die a hero (also I didn’t have the fatigue earlier that I do now from this game making me feel slightly insane)

Let me rummage through some of my past Hu-centric posts, I know my reasoning is around here somewhere.

[KayJayQueue]

What gave it away?

you jumping off naerys to vote PC even though you thought she was lockscum
you not really re-evaluating after naerys elim
your "scumread" of PC that just mysteriously vanished for no reason
you buddying Random Nurse because he has the awareness level of head of cabbage
you showing absolutely no fustration with RN whatsoever despite him just being completely delusional
you not voting me even though you're posturing you think I'm mafia
you defending titus/drew on lol grounds and never re-evaluating the slot after they had the shadiest wagon hop on ever into Naerys
you never re-evaluating the Naerys read even though she did like thirteen different contortions
you cared too much on the initial push on d1

can someone outside ari/hutao help clarify if there's anything to any of the charges levied here? i guess ideally kay would do it but i would never be so bold to ask a specific person

I think this shows Ari is highly likely to be town.
However
I think these postulations are inaccurate and/or forcing reads to fit the narrative of the specific theory. I UNDERSTAND Ari’s getting from point A to B and making this list but she’s pushing her personal feelings about some of these situations onto Hu. We can’t largely base scum theories on why someone is doing something/it being different from what one person would do/is doing/is feeling in the same situation. I believe a lot of this was fueled by emotion and wanting to find a scumtell or 5.

[KayJayQueue]

I do feel a bit iffy from Kay town reading me so much here. But like. I don't want her today

It’s the only thing I have to add to this game lol everyone else is playing ping pong with my reads. You’ve stayed consistent from my perspective of how I initially read you. So I’m apparently going to die on this hill.

[KayJayQueue]

Are you basing “doing nothing” off of like…voting patterns? I can understand the perspective if that’s what you mean but I don’t feel like I’m doing

nothing

. I feel like being new is being used against me no matter what I do or don’t do. Because either I’m playing badly and I’m using it as an excuse or the flip side, I’m not playing badly enough? I don’t know how I’m expected to play, so I’m sorry if I’m not meeting your expectations.

[KayJayQueue]

ur playing great kay im rooting for u

This is the second time you’ve made this kind of condescending post towards me, the first one being during day 1 in ann interaction with RN, and I honestly don’t appreciate it.

[KayJayQueue]

VOTE: NaS

That’s E-1

Just let me know when we’re ready.

[KayJayQueue]

Intent to hammer

[KayJayQueue]

Is there a good amount of time to give before I vote? I don’t want to be accused of cutting people off.

[KayJayQueue]

but someone clinging to the mafia wiki for dear life took the exact opposite message home?
it does not pass the smell test

I think I mentioned before that HT jumping on RN wagon looked opportunistic. Couple that with that self-vote, it looks really scummy.

i still remain unconvinced by this. if nas was just being theatrical w the wiki link why not say so here or in the next post explaining the vote

Speaking of, NAS never answered my question (1819about how he felt about Ari because she fits the same criteria of jumping on a wagon and self voting yet he didn’t hold her to the same standard as Hu which I found interesting.