Micro Normal 1104 - Postgame

[Overcat]

Being voted as soon as I join my first game. Anxiety inducing. Anyway, I'm going to give a rundown of my aim here:

I played a lot of mafia on non-forum sites, and was pretty good. I want to see to what extent those skills transfer to forum mafia, where you get more information (because people type more before each day ends) but also people have more time to come up with convincing lies (because they have literally hours if they want to to craft each message). So, I'm excited to see how this goes.

[Overcat]

Anyway, I'll out some reads that you shouldn't take too seriously because it's been, like, 5 minutes:

I very mildly townread kay. I also very mildly townread Jackson for the effort he has put in so far.

[Overcat]

Anyway, I'll out some reads that you shouldn't take too seriously because it's been, like, 5 minutes:

I very mildly townread kay. I also very mildly townread Jackson for the effort he has put in so far.

What do you think of Luka's effort on the first page?

Also this isn't incredibly important but i recommend you get an avatar to make it easier for us to tell your posts apart from others.

Avatar gotten. As for Luka's effort, what they're basically doing is interacting in order to create more information and reads, which I appreciate because it makes my job easier. However, I've seen enough of both town and mafia do that to know it's not particularly towny at this point. You should reserve judgement on Luka for now.

[Overcat]

And thanks Hu Tao

[Overcat]

Okay, so, in terms of this question:
@Overcat
Elaborate on what "Effort" Jackson has put in please.

I'll say that questions normally have a question mark on the end, and don't include quotation marks alongside any of the words to indicate deep skepticism. I will answer your question, but you have to remove the quotation marks if you want that.

The next point I'll make is that one of the scumreads I learnt from my experience on mafia websites is that town tend to ask questions and try to ascertain people's reasons for things quite strongly, and scum tend to ask questions but be disinterested in the answers, and are generally asking them in a way that's for social posturing. Luka has indicated they are mafia quite strongly to me in this instance (not definitely, but I'm like 70% sure), as their question wasn't actually a question, and the quotation marks indicated a lack of interest in my answer.

The second point I'll make as a more minor fos is that scum tend to be more interested in the way things 'look' and town tend to be more interested in more definite things. Luka stating that "Them liking the doggy is wolfy /srs", is a social putdown along the lines of 'oh, so you associate with him?' sometimes that valid reasoning, in this case it's not. I don't want to make my post too long, and take up too much of the conversation space, though if anyone's curious I have one more read or two I can out.

Anyway, I normally don't vote and make decisions so early on, but I think this is mafia

VOTE: Luka

[Overcat]

Seems like I overexplained a few things and ended up wall-posting apologies. I will overexplain less in future unless requested.

I wanna say two things before bed:

1. I am unlikely to unvote Luka at this point. I believe that given the information we have now, it would be a mistake to vote anyone else.

2. Jackson said - I'll wait for Luka to comment on my questions, but for right now I'm liking Cat and I'm liking Eira (based on that last post). I think FancyPants is a wolf:

I disagree with this read a bit. Whilst I agree that Eiralox's last line is mildly towny, and it's definitely a mood for you, because you seem to like a slower pace of game, I don't want to trust them just yet. I don't like that they haven't shown much emotional investment in the game so far, or taken firm stances on any reads. Once they start doing that, I'm probably willing to townread them, but for now, they just haven't done that.

[Overcat]

Ceejay- Am curious on the few extra reads you've got

Well, I think one of my reads was on you. I like that you've been asking some good questions, but more importantly that you've been willing to put yourself in the firing line on your opinions:

VOTE: Hu Tao
Them liking the doggy is wolfy /srs

eh?

I must be wolfy too because I like Overcat's 36.

Mind explaining this further?

[Overcat]

Good morning!

ceejay is a pretty strong town read of mine. I think a problem with forum games is that people are a bit too forgiving, and they may tend to go after people who are less charismatic rather than less towny. I'm very unhappy at the idea of votes being taken of Luka my biggest scum read onto ceejay who is a trust of mine at the moment. It's like we have two people that we are suspecting of doing a crime. One has tattoos covering them, blood on their hands, and a constant facial twitch, the other just happened to be found in the area the crime was committed. Leave ceejay alone.

[Overcat]

Smh

Spoiler: My extremely townie introduction

Guys, this "Not Voting" fella has like NO resistance! What are we even doing?!

Can you elaborate on this?

Is this your read list? If so, why omit Umlaut?

You asked 2 questions and had 3 other unrelated things, I would hardly classify this as effort. Especially when you contrast it with this post:

Avatar gotten. As for Luka's effort, what they're basically doing is interacting in order to create more information and reads, which I appreciate because it makes my job easier. However, I've seen enough of both town and mafia do that to know it's not particularly towny at this point. You should reserve judgement on Luka for now.

When, to my knowledge; you were doing the exact same thing. It creates a incongruity between the two and inconsistency. Nobody pointing this out and people towning you for reasons beyond me is what I don't like, and Hu Tao's reaction to my FoS wasn't very good either. They jump on the bandwagon to say they don't like my slot, but once again they never directly state a read on it and they aren't even voting their.

@Luka from what I've seen so far Overcat seems to value engagement through the use of good questions and would look at those sort of posts with a positive light, kind of like what he said here.

Ceejay- Am curious on the few extra reads you've got

Well, I think one of my reads was on you. I like that you've been asking some good questions, but more importantly that you've been willing to put yourself in the firing line on your opinions:

VOTE: Hu Tao
Them liking the doggy is wolfy /srs

eh?

I must be wolfy too because I like Overcat's 36.

Mind explaining this further?

Thoughts on this?

This about hits the nail on the head btw. A strong difference between Luka and Jackson, is Jackson asked some good questions, whereas Luka voted in order to create reads, and then defended themselves from attack. My philosophy is that people who ask questions and behave like detectives are good, and people who speak like politicians are bad.

[Overcat]

You're going to declare someone the top suspect based on their tattoos and motor tics? Yikes.

Also that analogy has no persuasive force. You have to actually say why Luka is more suspect and Ceejay less so, you can't just say what they're "like."

And the fact they have blood on their hands. Also, do I have to use logic all the time? I made a long logical post that was overly explained that nobody really seems to have found persuasive. If you want my logic look there, it hasn't changed.

[Overcat]

• I'm town.
  
• FancyPants is town.
  
• Overcat, JV, Hu Tao get provisional town leans.
  
• This leaves {KayJayQueue, Luka, ceejayvinoya, Eiralox}.

I can help you narrow down your list!

I’m town (:

Also, I townread you initially, but if you want to continue to be seen as town, you had better start contributing in some meaningful way. At the moment you are just filler.

[Overcat]

How can I explain things in a way that makes sense?

It feels like people on mafiascum look for logical inconsistencies, those are valuable but not the most important thing. You actually need to have principles that you scumhunt on, and rather than relying on gut, see if you can logically explain your gutread. There are multiple principles that I'm worried that people don't seem worried about.

One is the spirit of inquisitiveness. Town members tend to ask questions in order to find out information, and mafia tend to ask questions in order to enforce some point of view. If I was a mafia member, I would want to ask questions to:

1.Make sure that I seem towny and I seem like I am contributing.

2. In order to make people look bad

and if I was town I would want to ask questions to:

1. Find out information, and see if the other person's logic makes sense

2. In order to generate conversation

It is intuitively obvious that a mafia member would tend to ask questions in one way and a town member in another. And that is my main reason why I believe Luka is mafia.

[Overcat]

Good morning!

ceejay is a pretty strong town read of mine. I think a problem with forum games is that people are a bit too forgiving, and they may tend to go after people who are less charismatic rather than less towny. I'm very unhappy at the idea of votes being taken of Luka my biggest scum read onto ceejay who is a trust of mine at the moment. It's like we have two people that we are suspecting of doing a crime. One has tattoos covering them, blood on their hands, and a constant facial twitch, the other just happened to be found in the area the crime was committed. Leave ceejay alone.

You don't think Luka explaining changed anything?

I'll answer your question with a question, what do you think of my logic on the Luka vote, do you agree with it? Do you disagree with it? Explain why.

[Overcat]

Luka is being quite antagonistic which inherently makes me want to vote them, I don't think they're actually scummy though. This could be overcorrection but I don't think scum!luka would be this aggressive this early. Especially when immediately discounting your words like he had. It's not nice, but I don't think it's scummy

I'll ask you the same question, actually. I think I basically understand where you're coming from, and get that you think a mafia member wouldn't draw so much attention to themselves (thereby potentially getting themselves lynched), but what do you think of my logic on how mafia and town's folk will ask questions for different reasons?