Mini 2292: Anything uPick - Game Over!

[Alisae]

He spent too much time drawing a full claim from me when he could have let it rest as I'll be eliminated eventually anyway. That was mere busy work.

No sorry you need to give more than just this

This is plenty. We elimmed Amici on way less evidence.

you're not convincing me

[Alisae]

You'll waste your shot.

no

also Ircher you're not being eliminated.
I'm shooting you tonight

Can a rolestopper rolestop themselves?

probs not

No, I'm serious. You'll waste your shot if you shoot me. Feel free to campaign for my elimination tomorrow.

why

[Alisae]

1. That doesn't answer why
2. I want PB's alignment flipped. Me shooting PB does not flip his alignment.

[Alisae]

Why? I already told you!

when I asked you why, you told me that a different play was more optimal.
How does that answer why?

[Alisae]

why can't you talk about claim btw?

pb if answer to this is because you'll get shot then you getting shot is good for village

[Alisae]

Just don't complain tomorrow when things don't go how you wanted.

???????????
CAN YOU NOT BE CRYPTIC ABOUT THIS?

[Alisae]

In that case I'm dense

[Alisae]

k

[Alisae]

pb do you know what the heck ircher is talking about?

[Alisae]

if it's not obvious to you
and it's not obvious to me

then how is it obvious

[Alisae]

Take your shot then.

I like Wavelength + Marashu + Alisae for a solve.

??????????????????????

[Alisae]

there is no way you genuinely believe what you are putting down Ircher
no fucking shot

[Alisae]

Honestly think Marashu will flip town here. The game state is heavily in favor of such.

This.

y

[Alisae]

Stephen is effectively a doublevoter in the sense that he only gets 2x votes vs 1 player
LLD has to active her doublevote and it's something that can be used more freely. I'm also still unsure of how it is exactly it works if it only works on one player can they move it

Interesting thing to think about

[Alisae]

D1 was turbolim. Theres little to no pushback anywhere and when theres even a stone in the way (sorry ircher) theyre getting slammed by the steamroller.

Were not even half way in and weve squeezed Mara into a corner with no light or hope. Even if scum, that means we're getting nothing.

There is no wolf kill
my action on marashu failed along with ceph when targetting Marashu.

Novice is also an interesting thing to claim from Marashu, it allows him to hide what he did n1. One might want to do this if say they were targeted by a town alien, which would make a lot of sense if Marashu performed the kill and they got busted by the alien. It gives town no information while also keeping the events of what happened during the night vague.

There's also the question of why is a roleblocker novice but I'm an ungated vig, that's just weird

[Alisae]

.

I have other masks I can give out too and again, they pretty dang good.

This is why I was confused about the mask thing btw. I was going to give LLD a different mask, but something didnt sit right with me.

ur probably going to want to give masks in {me, dragons, wave, Stephen} those players should all be town me thinks

[Alisae]

Why did we let scum get away with this?

YOU COULD UNVOTE THEM

[Alisae]

WHAT DO YOU MEAN WHY DID WE LET WOLVES GET AWAY WITH THIS

[Alisae]

That self vote comes from scum relax

NO YOU DON'T GET IT
IRCHER IS SAYING WHY DID WE LET WOLVES GET AWAY WITH THIS WHEN HE COULD HAVE UNVOTED AT ANY TIME LIKE WHEN YOU PUT IT 1 VOTE AWAY FROM HAMMER

[Alisae]

LIKE WHAT IS GOING ON?????????????

[Alisae]

Look I'm just saying Flea calling Marashu town is likely a genuine thought.
Ircher saying Marashu could flip town? that's just fake as fuck

[Alisae]

like if they're a wolf I don't understand what they're doing and if they're a villager I don't understand what they're doing
like
????????????

[Alisae]

I'm apparently wasting a shot tonight on Ircher though apparently

[Alisae]

So ig it's not Kokichi.
Pretty interesting targets tbh.

[Alisae]

btw I didn't shoot.
I misread my pm I didn't understand that I was 1-shot until I submitted my action so I just used my mask

[Alisae]

also I lied my mask isn't multitasking

[Alisae]

If Flea is a wolf I imagine they call my bluff here?

[Alisae]

Anyway I think I'm interested in a massclaim?
I think that's a good idea?

[Alisae]

ya wave 3 groupscum is normal in mini themes

[Alisae]

I'm so confused about Ircher's play yesterday tbh.

[Alisae]

I have a really hard time speculating on something like this tbh

[Alisae]

Anyway I think I'm interested in a massclaim?
I think that's a good idea?

I was also thinking about this once I saw the Penguin disappeared post, either full mass claim or maybe flavor? idk

full
if this disappearance act is coming from a third party I imagine they're cornering themselves

[Alisae]

like if we're dealing with a third party, PP is the type of shot that makes me think they're going after wolves.
If they're a third party I imagine they would want to wolfside not townside?

[Alisae]

I'm so confused about Ircher's play yesterday tbh.

None of his posts leading up the the very end of the day made any sense to me, coming from either alignment really, and left me kind of confused.

I think he was trying to "soft" being bulletproof at you during that conversation where he said his role was obvious, but you and PD did not get it, for what its worth.

Whether real or just an attempt to talk you out of shooting him, not sure, but that was what I gathered he was saying.

if he's bulletproof then I'm killing him on the spot

[Alisae]

what good does softing bulletproof even do

[Alisae]

i don't know it's insane I can't think of what alignment it's coming from cuz like I can't imagine a town ircher playing this way but is this how a scum or third party ircher plays? Like one would want to say that it isn't how these alignments play but it's def not how town plays either so like what's going on

[Alisae]

if anything his pb read does look like something that comes from someone who's trying to puzzle solve but he has you as a suspect for poking a miller claim which I think you're in the right to poke and you've been making sense, and me for ??? like how?

[Alisae]

what good does softing bulletproof even do

It was pretty clear that he was trying to get you to aim at PB instead of at him

I should probably rephrase
what good does softing bp do to make him look better

[Alisae]

if we're softing this way it's probably better off being claimed

[Alisae]

ya it's just completely bizarre

[Alisae]

anyway ig we should figure out an order for massclaim?

PB
Ircher
Kuribo
Stephen
Wave
Flea

[Alisae]

Ya you can claim privately to LLD that's fine, she's already claimed. That's fine

I was thinking that I can put you below Wave because I don't think Flea is ccing you and faer already locked into a claim, but I villager read them so I don't think it makes that big of a difference to me.

[Alisae]

Kuribo the only thing I will tell ya is if you have a CC wait until everyone has claimed then come out with but like also read the room, if it's clear that people are being uncooperative then just go out of order but I think it's fine, this probably won't be the case

[Alisae]

PB
Ircher
Stephen
Wave
Flea
Kuribo

This probably isn't changing?

[Alisae]

Assuming that's not changing, I assume we can just go?

try not to vote please during this process.

[Alisae]

Kuribo dragons is dead

[Alisae]

What were hood conversations like

[Alisae]

ok go

[Alisae]

we're claiming everything.
try not to be illiterate like me and misread your pm but I would like to claim that I'm not illiterate but the pm was just written poorly but I mean hey this is basically the same as "I'M NOT IN THE WRONG THEY ARE"

[Alisae]

also cakez phrased 1 shot and 3 shot different in ceph's pm he specifically lists that they have 3 usages of the ability.
I don't have this in my pm.
What I have in my pm is "once at night" and usually if you're trying to indicate 1-shot with this wording one would do "once per game at night" but nope.

[Alisae]

What are you

[Alisae]

I don't care enough to yell at you for more someone else can do it

[Alisae]

Ircher go

[Alisae]

ok?????????????

Stephen can claim or wave can if he doesn't wanna wait.

PB what happens to the dreamers if you die

[Alisae]

what good does softing bulletproof even do

It was pretty clear that he was trying to get you to aim at PB instead of at him

I should probably rephrase
what good does softing bp do to make him look better

I was trying to help you not waste your shot. It was never about me in the first place. (Also, with a miller claim, I knew for a fact scum weren't ever going to attempt to kill me.)

is there a specific reason why you couldn't just say so?

[Alisae]

ok?????????????

Stephen can claim or wave can if he doesn't wanna wait.

PB what happens to the dreamers if you die

They wake up normally for the next phase so if PP is scum I'm probably the night kill, so I'll kill PP and target whoever tonight

PP can act?
I was thinking of fakeclaiming I targetted kokichi as a funny and maintain the impression that I'm still useful going but I didn't think that was actually real target

[Alisae]

what good does softing bulletproof even do

It was pretty clear that he was trying to get you to aim at PB instead of at him

I should probably rephrase
what good does softing bp do to make him look better

I was trying to help you not waste your shot. It was never about me in the first place. (Also, with a miller claim, I knew for a fact scum weren't ever going to attempt to kill me.)

is there a specific reason why you couldn't just say so?

No. I just didn't want to say it outright.

y

[Alisae]

So what you're saying is if we elim wolves today the game is over

[Alisae]

that's pretty funny

[Alisae]

What has Kokichi been saying?

[Alisae]

I think outing both of those players roles right now is good?

[Alisae]

Kokichi I only know he’s a strongman and targeted SAS on N1.

wait what

[Alisae]

I don't understand his claim

[Alisae]

what it like
is

I don't get it

[Alisae]

what does it do

[Alisae]

usually strongman is like
the thing that makes it so if you're performing the kill you can't be stopped

[Alisae]

oh

[Alisae]

my only other ability is the mask that flea gave me

[Alisae]

I am keeping speculation on claims and such until after massclaim
I would recommend the same to anyone else but I mean hey you guys do what you want

[Alisae]

I used my kill invest on Ircher last night. I kind of figured that with his miller claim specifically saying it worked for trackers, then if he was he was setting himself up to be doing the night kill night 1, but my result was that he has not tried to kill.

but...they're a miller...

[Alisae]

I’m going to bed seems like today will be interesting…

[Alisae]

I used my kill invest on Ircher last night. I kind of figured that with his miller claim specifically saying it worked for trackers, then if he was he was setting himself up to be doing the night kill night 1, but my result was that he has not tried to kill.

but...they're a miller...

So if they’re a wolf they haven’t killed and if they’re town they’re telling the truth…

[Alisae]

Pb are you like a Jailkeeper? Like if you target someone they’ll dodge a kill but does that also apply to if they perform the kill?

[Alisae]

Pb does it resolve before or after the mafia kill

[Alisae]

Pb are you like a Jailkeeper? Like if you target someone they’ll dodge a kill but does that also apply to if they perform the kill?

Yes and I think so

Pb does it resolve before or after the mafia kill

I think so

It’s mostly a delayed vig but I do think I stopped the N1 kill

I think so?

[Alisae]

I think if pb is 3rd party he literally cannot win this game if we elim wolves today and he has a wolf in his succ ability

[Alisae]

Everyone needs to full claim,.including flavour.
There is a redirector.

What makes you think this

[Alisae]

Sas and LLD claimed very similar things to each other that’s…
Very interesting…

[Alisae]

I used my kill invest on Ircher last night. I kind of figured that with his miller claim specifically saying it worked for trackers, then if he was he was setting himself up to be doing the night kill night 1, but my result was that he has not tried to kill.

but...they're a miller...

Yeah, but once I got him to finally tell me explicitly how it worked, I knew my invest should get a true result on him.

And to be fair, I did get the less suspicious result.

My result means that he did not attempt to carry out the night 1 kill. But after claiming that he was a miller for trackers, it seemed reasonable that he might have been the one to do the kill if he was scum

I am a big fan of this post btw.
I think if Ircher is a wolf claiming the role he’s claiming he’s probs gonna wanna so all of the kills and we do have a flipped tracker

[Alisae]

I'm Lucia Hefferman's Baked Ham

I'm a doc who is told if my protection is successful. After the first use, a successful protect sacrifices my life for theirs. I also have the aforementioned neighborhood. Night one I protected LLD, night 2 was Alisae. Neither protection succeeded in stopping a death.

I was claiming to use my activated BP last night that I got from Flea, shouldn’t dragons just be the obv protect here?

[Alisae]

I just woke up
I need to think about things.

[Alisae]

I'm Lucia Hefferman's Baked Ham

I'm a doc who is told if my protection is successful. After the first use, a successful protect sacrifices my life for theirs. I also have the aforementioned neighborhood. Night one I protected LLD, night 2 was Alisae. Neither protection succeeded in stopping a death.

I was claiming to use my activated BP last night that I got from Flea, shouldn’t dragons just be the obv protect here?

Wait were you not claiming to have a vig shot that you were going to use on ircher?

I claimed I was going to shoot and I was going to activate bp

[Alisae]

Obviously I was bluffing but the way I was playing I feel like should make a protective think that wolves aren’t going to shoot me

[Alisae]

I'm Lucia Hefferman's Baked Ham

I'm a doc who is told if my protection is successful. After the first use, a successful protect sacrifices my life for theirs. I also have the aforementioned neighborhood. Night one I protected LLD, night 2 was Alisae. Neither protection succeeded in stopping a death.

I was claiming to use my activated BP last night that I got from Flea, shouldn’t dragons just be the obv protect here?

Wait were you not claiming to have a vig shot that you were going to use on ircher?

I claimed I was going to shoot and I was going to activate bp

I musta missed that last part because I protected you assuming you were trying to shoot my scum read

this is consistent with ur play so far ig?

[Alisae]

also if Cakez breaks the rules and doesn't give me a kitty for EVERY MEOW POST i'm gonna be so

Meow

dge

Meowdge lmfao

[Alisae]

Everyone needs to full claim,.including flavour.
There is a redirector.

What makes you think this

My mask didn't go to its recipient.

you get old if your recipient receives it?
That’s cool.
So basically you softed you gave good masks and wolves took the bait?

[Alisae]

So we don't know why me and ceph's actions failed on Marashu
We don't know how Flea's mask went from Dragons to Wave.
we don't know why n1 wolf kill failed. I'm assuming Marashu was rolestopped so like if they just have their rolestopped player performed the kill where is it? Kuribo didn't stop it. The only thing I can think of what happened is that PB stopped it?

[Alisae]

I'm not voting PB today

[Alisae]

I don't think PB is a third party and I don't think they're a wolf.
Even if PB was a third party, I don't think voting him out makes sense today and I would consider it to be a blunder of epic proportions.
W/ how he's been playing he brought so much attention onto himself and since we know redirection and rolestopping as well as roleblocking are wolf powers.

There are also a lot of actions that give feedback when they've failed or been redirected

[Alisae]

also did I miss penguin's claim or did pb not post it yet

[Alisae]

also pb can't be third party or wolf if we both know that remaining wolf power is redirection and rolestopping unless game is like 9-3-1 which is weirdge for a 13er

[Alisae]

ig a bus driver could fit the bill ya

[Alisae]

my my I'm going to get a headache

[Alisae]

9-3-1 would make sense for a role madness game.

what are your thoughts on the current ongoings

[Alisae]

PB you targetted Kokichi right

[Alisae]

if kokichi was a target for a bus drive with marashu, wouldn't you have succ marashu instead?

[Alisae]

Pink Ball is probably Kirby - Serial Killer Blob of Death

if this was really the case I don't think they be like "i'm not claiming flavor because I want flavor to be revealed on flip cuz it's funny" but it does make sense

Do you have other reads?

[Alisae]

Oh

I was thinking about it as a scum rolestop and a scum redirector/busdriver being the last two scum.

But actually, a scum redirector targeting Marashu -> Kokichi and then Dragons -> Me would answer both

redirect makes person a target person b
me and dragons both targetted marashu but instead both of our actions failed. I don't know what to call this role, it is within the realm of redirection, but it's not a redirector

[Alisae]

I think we should all be in agreement that this redirector needs to be found and needs to die

[Alisae]

Oh

I was thinking about it as a scum rolestop and a scum redirector/busdriver being the last two scum.

But actually, a scum redirector targeting Marashu -> Kokichi and then Dragons -> Me would answer both

redirect makes person a target person b
me and dragons both targetted marashu but instead both of our actions failed. I don't know what to call this role, it is within the realm of redirection, but it's not a redirector

Quick check on the wiki says that the role that I was thinking of would actually be a "Deflector" https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Deflector instead of a Redirector

mafia kill ignores the deflector me thinks

[Alisae]

@Kuribo

- why do you target LLD n1?

[Alisae]

Gonna look at Kuribo's iso to see if their night actions make sense

I can tell you that they don't but what gives me pause is how Kuribo has been interacting with the events that have been going on which to me screams uninformed and reading comprehension being in the toilet.

n1 if I'm a doc I'm not docing LLD, I think Village probably happy if the player flips. Their abilities are also out in the open which makes them less likely to be a kill.
n2 ig I can buy him wanting to doc me but if I see a player screaming "I'M A FULL VIG AND I GET TO SHOOT AND ACTIVATE MY NO YOU CAN'T SHOOT/INTERACT BUTTON" then I'm probably want to Dragons to be alive on the next day phase? They're more clear than I am and probably always the obvious shot in this situation.

Like D2 he writes this

And is there a reason we're assuming someone was rolestopped rather than the disappearance being a janitor kill?

which I want to say is something that I feel like comes from uninformed > informed?

[Alisae]

Wave I like PB saying that ceph was just blocked and I was just redirected to Kokichi

[Alisae]

i also want to say i feel like ali was a maybe busser of Maru but it's hard to tell that claim was ass lol

what do you think of wave

[Alisae]

i also want to say i feel like ali was a maybe busser of Maru but it's hard to tell that claim was ass lol

This does not feel right to me, because the mech side of Maru dying originated from Ali. The dragons outed that their action failed on after Ali outed that her action failed on Maru, not the other way around.

This would imply she walked into the day ready to mech dunk on her partner Maru, which feels wrong to me.

tbh if I'm a wolf I probably would dunk Maru but
not like how it played out?
I can't imagine me fakeclaiming vigi as a wolf ever.

[Alisae]

the way it played out was
Ceph asked to rolefish
I said they could
they asked if my action targetted
I commented about the mask
they asked about my actual action and if it targets
I say it does
they reveal they got blocked
I reveal I targetted marashu
they also reveal they targetted marashu
i sounds like a rolestop
i vote
they vote

[Alisae]

anyway I'm a villager I can't bus

[Alisae]

I want Kuribo to come back and post more
I want Ircher to post actual thoughts
I want to hear what SAS thinks about other slots that aren't PB

[Alisae]

I am 100% redirector hunting today.

[Alisae]

Redirector hunting to me will always be more optimal than killing PB today

[Alisae]

Amici has a pretty unique investigative as well

[Alisae]

Pb what are your reads on Kokichi and pp?

[Alisae]

Sure Kuribo I’m not in any particular rush
I’m waiting for things to happen right now

[Alisae]

Tbh I would say it’s too early to tell if you played badly or not.
I would say ur dayplay is fine at least? Like u want to kill people who are probably wolves?

Maybe I just have a unique view on protectives.
Not everyone is going to have this view on how protectives should be played, some will go out of their way to stop a kill even if that’s not the best way to play the role

[Alisae]

I don’t think you’ve played shit fwiw

Shrug

Literally my first game without a hydra partner in like two years

I didn't really have high expectations for myself when I signed up anyway

If u play or want to play again I’ll hydra with ya
I think we have very similar ideas on how we want the game to be played

[Alisae]

doc has always been one of the roles im weakest at. I like it a lot more than I used to but I used to hate it so much that I'd end up blurting my claim out on day one

Nowadays I don't mind it but I also can't remember if I've ever successfully stopped a kill

I probably haven't been a doc in nearly a decade idk

I love doctors. I think I am the best player to hand a protective on site.

I would say you're thinking about the role wrong.
As a doc you shouldn't be trying to stop the kill. If you go out of your way to stop a kill, you will most likely not stop a kill.

Doctors have a hidden ability that isn't written in their role pm. This ability is "The person you target will be alive tomorrow baring a strongman."
Another way to see the mafia kill is "This is the mafia telling the pl that this player is not mafia, usually this means town."

We can use this to sort players into 3 buckets.
- Players that Village would be happy to see dead as their flip is helpful to the village.
- Players that are pretty obviously town but are not threatening to wolves.
- Players that are obviously town and are threatening to wolves.

Hopefully this helps

[Alisae]

I don’t think you’ve played shit fwiw

Shrug

Literally my first game without a hydra partner in like two years

I didn't really have high expectations for myself when I signed up anyway

If u play or want to play again I’ll hydra with ya
I think we have very similar ideas on how we want the game to be played

listen these days I'm just happy if I can get through the game without being a toxic piece of shit

You don't wanna hydra with me. Ask Mala or DGB, im pretty sure it's low key kinda stressful lmao

Stressful?
How?

[Alisae]

I don’t think you’ve played shit fwiw

Shrug

Literally my first game without a hydra partner in like two years

I didn't really have high expectations for myself when I signed up anyway

If u play or want to play again I’ll hydra with ya
I think we have very similar ideas on how we want the game to be played

listen these days I'm just happy if I can get through the game without being a toxic piece of shit

You don't wanna hydra with me. Ask Mala or DGB, im pretty sure it's low key kinda stressful lmao

Stressful?
How?

Imagine waking up one morning and finding that your hydra partner has made 40 posts in six hours, in which he has claimed your role, voted the slot you share, and gotten himself banned

sign me up

[Alisae]

hug

[Alisae]

[Alisae]

Ircher what are your reads

[Alisae]

What about wave?
You still fos wave?

[Alisae]

I’m open to any theories people have on why wave has flea’s mask

[Alisae]

Actually I’m not maybe I’ll just play my hand here.

Kuribo came into this day claiming doc. He claimed it to LLD first thing and it’s what he came out with after it been revealed that there’s a redirector. If he’s a wolf he knows that coming into this day the redirector is going to get exposed. I don’t think it’s him. If he’s a wolf I think I’m just going to say that I deserve to lose. I think the simplest explanation is that the guy is town.
His claim is also pretty detailed so I’m like happy with it.

I don’t think it’s Ircher. I get why people think guy is obvwolf so if I get outvoted here it is what it is, but I think if Ircher is a wolf, they would probably try to use wave getting Flea’s mask against Wave.
My theory for this redirect is that wolves don’t have enough information to get the most out of their redirect and they can’t interact with me so they used their power to try to make Wave look more sus. I feel like if Ircher is a wolf, he would use this redirect to his advantage to try to push the player.

I don’t think killing pb is a good idea today.
Flea is a villager
Wave is a villager
And I want to like sas as well

So like that just leaves LLD to me.
I also just wanna be wrong on Ircher because like all of the signs are there but like Idunno

[Alisae]

Something is wrong with my world view

[Alisae]

Idunno what it is but something is like wrong.
Maybe PB is like a third party and it’s 10-2-1

[Alisae]

Like man pb being a third party just feels so wrong with how he’s playing it and what he’s actually doing and wolves I don’t think feel concerned with trying to use their redirect to try to find the player but rather send a mask to wave because why????

[Alisae]

I'm an Extremely Apathetic Macaroni Penguin with a Chef's Hat. Due to my apathetic nature, I have to stay in bed sleeping (haha I'm in the dream dimension, funny) during nights 1 & 2, but starting night three I get up and can start cooking pasta to become super-pasta powered! I can cook, eat, and use the ability I gain from eating my food on the same night. I have enough ingredients to make two dishes, and only one of each dish. In short macaroni makes me a 1-shot bodyguard and spaghetti makes me a 1-shot follower.

I crumbed both my apathetic nature and bodyguard with my post 664 talking with Ali about my macaroni

Btw does this look paraphrased to anyone?

[Alisae]

That post I imagine is borderline questionably modkillable.
Idunno

[Alisae]

I think guy is just a villager.
I think that makes sense.

[Alisae]

it wouldn't be prioritary to try to solve your slot because

the higher chance is that you're simply town

because your play has been towny, your reads are towny and your pushes seem genuine.

I am talking about this. You are a delayed vig, and someone else claims vig, and this is where you land on her.

Did you really think that town delayed vig + town unlimited shot vig had a chance to both be town in this game? --> And also think there was a 2 man scum team?

(And yes, I am asking about unlimited shot vig, not 1-shot, because that is what she said she was when you wrote this.)

I was never getting Ali eliminated yesterday and

in my eyes they were bussing their partner

so why bother? I needed to be alive today in order to prove my role and I wasn’t in the best position yesterday

?

The only thing I like for pb being a 3rd party is like this ig

[Alisae]

And like ig I can buy the perspective slip
It wouldn’t be the first time pb has slipped

[Alisae]

It feels so weird to try to hunt other 3rd parties as early as he was if he is a 3rd party though

[Alisae]

I'm an Extremely Apathetic Macaroni Penguin with a Chef's Hat. Due to my apathetic nature, I have to stay in bed sleeping (haha I'm in the dream dimension, funny) during nights 1 & 2, but starting night three I get up and can start cooking pasta to become super-pasta powered! I can cook, eat, and use the ability I gain from eating my food on the same night. I have enough ingredients to make two dishes, and only one of each dish. In short macaroni makes me a 1-shot bodyguard and spaghetti makes me a 1-shot follower.

I crumbed both my apathetic nature and bodyguard with my post 664 talking with Ali about my macaroni

Btw does this look paraphrased to anyone?

It is, believe me

ok

[Alisae]

I mean I have no choice but to believe you tbh

[Alisae]

And like ig I can buy the perspective slip
It wouldn’t be the first time pb has slipped

When have I slipped????? I’m too fucking paranoid to slip and since english’s not my first language I usually double check my posts

avp

[Alisae]

Whats that I don’t remember any details of my old games (except when I shot myself as scum and won because I got bus driven)

Ali v Pine
you scumslipped in an image you posted

[Alisae]

I’m practically at L-1 with that vote

who is voting you?
I'm not paying attention to votecount

[Alisae]

Whats that I don’t remember any details of my old games (except when I shot myself as scum and won because I got bus driven)

Ali v Pine
you scumslipped in an image you posted

I remember it being a joke with Excel?

Yep that's the one I'm referring to!

[Alisae]

so you're at L-2 and you're acting as if SAS will vote you
got it

[Alisae]

PB I'm not saying you're in the wrong for saying that :/

[Alisae]

maybe I could have communicated that better
use play instead of act

[Alisae]

LLD can you use your doublevote in elo?

[Alisae]

I don't think this detail is mentioned in your post today where you wrote everything out so I'm asking

[Alisae]

LLD I was going to vote PB and ask you to claw them...

[Alisae]

I didn't seem any harm in testing that but ok ig it is what it is

[Alisae]

Also LLD I'm confused as to why you want doc on you?
I was thinking it would be good if it was on PB or Wave

[Alisae]

I was going to suggest that PB succ LLD tonight if we're killing Ircher I think that's best.

PB if we don't get the redirector today, village needs Kokichi.
If we do, village probably wants PP alive or dead. I TR PP so I think he should probably be alive?

[Alisae]

This is what I was going to suggest

Kuribo on Wave/PB
Self-watcher to Kuribo
PB succs one of Ircher/LLD, the one that we don't kill today.
SAS can continue to do his thing but if he wanted to mix it up and send a message to someone, that's perfectly acceptable.

I think the above likely always happens regardless on if we kill redirector or not today?

If we kill redirector, PB can choose to wake up or kill PP. I think PP is probably town?
If we don't kill redirector, village needs Kokichi

As for Wave, I don't want to telegraph what I think Wave should do in the event that we don't get redirector today. I know what I would do but I don't want to say.
If we do get the redirector, Wave should probably just flavor cop someone.

[Alisae]

LLD I was going to vote PB and ask you to claw them...

I would lose it for the day.

you would lose it if I put PB at E-1 and tested if you could/couldn't hammer them?

[Alisae]

PB succing me into his Dream Dimmension makes no sense why would he do that.

What's your suggestion?
I'm just going down my poe

[Alisae]

So it would fail and I wouldn't have it

Is this a bad thing?

[Alisae]

PB succing me into his Dream Dimmension makes no sense why would he do that.

What's your suggestion?
I'm just going down my poe

Yeah. I know you are.

If Ircher flips town succ Kuribo. If Ircher flips scum succ Steven A Smith.

hmmmmmmmmmmmm
ok

[Alisae]

VOTE: ircher

[Alisae]

So it would fail and I wouldn't have it

Is this a bad thing?

Yes? I am not just your drone and you aren't in charge of this town, lol.

I have my double vote for a reason it is my LITERAL AVTUAL ONLY POWER so uh.
Yeah I don't really give a shit if you are telling me to waste it.

I mean from my pov I don't think it matters all too much today. Like I don't think it's a big deal and I like having the security that you're not like lying or something but ig if you're town you're telling the truth and it's irrelevant

[Alisae]

Sorry that was rude

I think you're fine regardless of alignment here tbh

[Alisae]

ya i want to believe lld is more likely to be a villager this game than sas is and if she's a wolf tbh I want to lose

[Alisae]

actually I shouldn't say I want to lose but like
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH the anxiety

[Alisae]

ya idunno idunno idunno :/

[Alisae]

look man you don't have to vote yourself.
voting LLD is better than voting yourself and that makes sense as something you would want to do

[Alisae]

I want to villa read Ircher I would probably join you on it tbh

[Alisae]

sas can you not vote yourself and vote lld?

[Alisae]

please man :/

[Alisae]

I've been in your shoes.
Selfvoting is not the play here. Selfvoting and having it go through if you're a villager will always make things worse cuz we ended up killing a villager when I feel like this table should just be able to identify it.

[Alisae]

I'm going to re-read and the comment on I think if SAS is being toxic, I want to say he isn't but like this is happening so quickly so like I don't know

[Alisae]

i have done nothing to deserve how you have treated me this game

Can you elaborate on this and give me posts on where you felt like SAS was treating you unfairly?

[Alisae]

UNVOTE:

[Alisae]

I've been in your shoes.
Selfvoting is not the play here. Selfvoting and having it go through if you're a villager will always make things worse cuz we ended up killing a villager when I feel like this table should just be able to identify it.

To me this is like for sympathy no?

The self voting the emotional wildfire followed by the "it's mafia".

This player clearly believes that mafia is anything goes within some reason. So this isn't beyond them.

You mean his self-vote post built to be manipulative?
I'm not crystal clear if that's what you're communicating here.

[Alisae]

I am not being a fucking asshole

Am I a bad person for wanting to agree with this?

I imagine PB feels the way he does because he thinks SAS is just going to tunnel him all game and he just doesn't know how to respond to it and PB feels powerless in this situation. One could say that well PB technically does have power he can just kill SAS but I don't refer to power within the game but rather the power to show SAS that he wants to be right because PB feels like he's trying and he sees SAS as someone who just doesn't care.

Idunno this is some like huge word vomit but I'm empathetic towards both players here.

I feel like SAS has been peaceful on D1 and I feel like he's been peaceful here.

[Alisae]

I've been in your shoes.
Selfvoting is not the play here. Selfvoting and having it go through if you're a villager will always make things worse cuz we ended up killing a villager when I feel like this table should just be able to identify it.

To me this is like for sympathy no?

The self voting the emotional wildfire followed by the "it's mafia".

This player clearly believes that mafia is anything goes within some reason. So this isn't beyond them.

You mean his self-vote post built to be manipulative?
I'm not crystal clear if that's what you're communicating here.

Yes that is what I am saying.

hmmmmmm

[Alisae]

I think SAS hasn’t crossed any line whatsoever but I dislike his tone towards me, I feel like he has mocked me for how I’ve been playing with some things he has said and I felt hurt, but that doesn’t make him an asshole or not even close to that.

hug

[Alisae]

I interpretted PB sucking up Kuribo as like a defensive play tbh rather than an offensive one.

[Alisae]

I am not being a fucking asshole

Am I a bad person for wanting to agree with this?

I imagine PB feels the way he does because he thinks SAS is just going to tunnel him all game and he just doesn't know how to respond to it and PB feels powerless in this situation. One could say that well PB technically does have power he can just kill SAS but I don't refer to power within the game but rather the power to show SAS that he wants to be right because PB feels like he's trying and he sees SAS as someone who just doesn't care.

Idunno this is some like huge word vomit but I'm empathetic towards both players here.

I feel like SAS has been peaceful on D1 and I feel like he's been peaceful here.

he hasn't crossed a line yet but he's literally accusing players of game throwing for not agreeing with him and talking about wanting to throw the game away from his PoV, and a lot of his posts have been very pointed and kind of meaner than needed.

It's not bad but it's not good. It's in "I don't want to play with this" levels but not at "needs mod action" levels.

That is true...

[Alisae]

I interpretted PB sucking up Kuribo as like a defensive play tbh rather than an offensive one.

i cant believe you actually think people are coming back from pink ball's stomach

its like a janitor sk told you the others are just waiting in a room somewhere and he'll bring them back any time now

So like is your argument that you think PB just doesn't know how to play third party and he played it like he was town?

[Alisae]

we have already literally seen a scum janitor flip

the sk is probably also a janitor and probly bulletproof too

the idea that these players are just sleeping somewhere is nonsense

How can you be so sure?
Is there something wrong with giving him the ability to try to demonstrate it as such?
I imagine if he's lying and just does what he wants instead of what he's leashed to do he just dies?

[Alisae]

PB succ'd kokichi and PP

[Alisae]

Pb what happens if you target an ascetic

[Alisae]

Where is Kokichi

[Alisae]

I need to double check something

[Alisae]

Ok cool
I lied about using mask
I didn’t use it n2 but used it last night

[Alisae]

You were likely redirected to me

[Alisae]

That quickhammer was really bad so I popped my mask because I needed to be alive for the day phase

[Alisae]

That hammer gave me a heart attack once I realized it happened
U we’re counting votes too pb

[Alisae]

I’m going back to bedge

[Alisae]

Redirecting pb off of sas sounds plausible

[Alisae]

I imagine whoever is a wolf redirector is going to really want to eliminate sas

[Alisae]

Who would even be our rolestopper here if we have a redirector running around

[Alisae]

Rolestopper + Redirector just seems unlikely.

[Alisae]

Pb either lied or they were redirected to me

There’s also the question of why you’re still here wave. Invest is spooky and you weren’t redirected

[Alisae]

No no I think there’s no explanation that makes sense.
Wolves couldn’t move the invest while pb threatened to take their elim away so they have to redirect pb
They had to get rid of the doc, doc was also pretty townie

Now, the only question is why would wave still be here. I imagine whoever is a wolf if they redirect pb to wave they kill 2 birds with one stone

[Alisae]

Either way if we’re looking for groupwolves
There’s only one person it could be
And it’s not sas

[Alisae]

Like all this talking around it ignores that scum knew what PB would do. PB was claiming to kill SAS.

So if SAS was town, scum would have allowed that to occur.

Not if sas dying overnight is bad for wolves
I imagine you actually have motive to see sas elim over pb succ

[Alisae]

Either way if we’re looking for groupwolves
There’s only one person it could be
And it’s not sas

Why are you landing on it being LLD>SAS

I do feel like from PoE, it is one of them, but need to go do some rereading to feel confident enough for a possible Elo answer.

Oh it’s simple really
I don’t buy LLD constructing sas posts as manipulative

[Alisae]

Like all this talking around it ignores that scum knew what PB would do. PB was claiming to kill SAS.

So if SAS was town, scum would have allowed that to occur.

Not if sas dying overnight is bad for wolves
I imagine you actually have motive to see sas elim over pb succ

then give me a motive, Ali.

There is none. You can't name one. This is literally you going "but not if THIS were true" and then not giving a world in which that COULD be true.

Well, you see.
If pb succeeds on SAS, how do you think this day phase plays out?
I imagine town has no reason not to just immediately go to flip you, no?

[Alisae]

Anyway I’ll think this whole thing a bit more over tho
I didn’t get that much sleep

[Alisae]

I dunno it doesn’t make sense
The guy that just hardtunneled pb, has all of his actions accounted for, outed he had the same role as LLD after LLD did, proved it, and doesn’t want to get succ? This is the guy that is supposed to be a wolf?

[Alisae]

I’m sure things will come to light this day phase though.

[Alisae]

Sas didn’t even want Ircher
He just came into the next phase trying to kill who he thought was third party and then LLD
Now that would be odd, wouldn’t a wolf sas be okay with killing Ircher?
I mean he did say he would go along with it if we were going to give pb the win but like
He didn’t have a hand at all in irchers death and as soon as I voted Ircher pb hammers. And it’s not like the he didn’t know it would be a hammer.

[Alisae]

Idunno I find it hard to believe that sas played the game he did as a wolf

[Alisae]

Sas didn’t even want Ircher
He just came into the next phase trying to kill who he thought was third party and then LLD
Now that would be odd, wouldn’t a wolf sas be okay with killing Ircher?
I mean he did say he would go along with it if we were going to give pb the win but like
He didn’t have a hand at all in irchers death and as soon as I voted Ircher pb hammers. And it’s not like the he didn’t know it would be a hammer.

Right, you wanted Ircher. SAS doesn't have to do anything.

You know this. I know you know this. It's fucking dead simple to push one thing poorly, make people upset at you and then when town die you look better.

I waffled and flip flopped on it, you consistently wanted Ircher and went after it, which is what a wolf would want to do.