Mini 2331 - Touhou UPick: Anonymous Edition (Game Over)

[Koishi Komeiji]

VOTE: Tenshi

[Koishi Komeiji]

What does everyone think about Yuuka's claim? I'm kinda on the side of thinking it's more likely to be a scum role

I think the role itself is NAI based on how the setup was generated, but I like how they claimed it

What do you like about how they claimed it?

[Koishi Komeiji]

Also you're probably

not

in the scum PT

?

[Koishi Komeiji]

What does everyone think about Yuuka's claim? I'm kinda on the side of thinking it's more likely to be a scum role

I think the role itself is NAI based on how the setup was generated, but I like how they claimed it

What do you like about how they claimed it?

May I get an answer to your thought process here

[Koishi Komeiji]

ok but why wouldn't mafia do that if they rolled such a role?

[Koishi Komeiji]

VOTE: Daiyousei

[Koishi Komeiji]

one-off questions and comments that don't seem to lead anywhere

gold star

[Koishi Komeiji]

I think Sanae's reads are fake because Kagerou is my only townread so far

[Koishi Komeiji]

can you use more words to explain that

[Koishi Komeiji]

probably because I'm town

[Koishi Komeiji]

I should probably explain a bit more.

I townread Kagerou because I mindmelded with 128 and I found Sanae's play to feel like mafia trying to fit in and do stuff.

I started needling Sanae to gauge intent and make her flesh things out a bit more.

Touhou UPick - Anonymous Edition

Current Status: Day 1

Players

Tenshi Hinanawi
Aya Shameimaru
Yuuka Kazami
Kaguya Houraisan
Kagerou Imaizumi
Koishi Komeiji
Eternity Larva
Ichirin Kumoi
Daiyousei
Marisa Kirisame
Clownpiece
Reisen Udongein Inaba
Sanae Kochiya

I think right now I like
Marisa
Clownpiece
Tenshi
Yuuka (?)
Eternity Larva (?)

And have some sort of scum leanings on
Koishi
Kagerou

(Admittedly not strong ones)
And am basically null on everyone else

I don't believe she has genuine suspicion of me/kagerou or actually townreads Marisa/Clownpiece/Tenshi/Yuuka/Eternity Larva.

She's just trying to align herself with the louder voices in the room and shade the people who suspect/question her - this is a political move and not genuine town thoughts.

[Koishi Komeiji]

what reasoning are you even talking about

[Koishi Komeiji]

for me to find her reasoning "not genuine" I'd have to be able to read her reasoning to begin with. I didn't read much reasoning from her on her reads or how she got there. So I think she's saying them to buddy up to people and fit in and those are not real reads. The one read I did question her on she basically boiled it down to "vibes" on someone's first post which is pretty questionable to me.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I don't believe Sanae has those reads.

I am not talking about a general hypothetical townie

[Koishi Komeiji]

I don't even think its possible to quantify what a general hypothetical townie would think but I also don't see the point of arguing about it.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I don't even think its possible to quantify what a general hypothetical townie would think but I also don't see the point of arguing about it.

Oh, oh! And we have our first exclusive interview with the younger sister of Satori Komeiji! Tell us please, have your mindreading powers returned, and if so, what have you seen in that Unconcious Mind of yours?

My therapist recommended that I quit mindreading in order to avoid depression and as a result I've vowed never to reopen my satori eye for the sake of my mental health.

[Koishi Komeiji]

oh and I just remembered this

I have immunity to all day abilities so please don't waste anything useful on me

[Koishi Komeiji]

was your therapist an agent of the incident causers?

I don't think so but it's true he didn't have like a license or an office so maybe he's not the best person to trust.

[Koishi Komeiji]

methinks we have exactly one scum in {me / Koishi / Reisen / Yuuka}

why would you put yourself in the list

[Koishi Komeiji]

methinks we have exactly one scum in {me / Koishi / Reisen / Yuuka}

why would you put yourself in the list

Because i'm viewing myself as part of it

and ok, there's DEFINETLY one somewhere in {Kagerou / Koishi / Reisen / Yuuka / Aya}

oh i thought it was based on reads not just "self obfuscating" lol

[Koishi Komeiji]

I disagree with your theory because I think role generation is based on the characters whereas alignment randomization is just alignment randomization.

I know I'm town, I think you're town, if Sanae is mafia I think Yuuka is town. I don't remember anything about Reisen

[Koishi Komeiji]

for me to find her reasoning "not genuine" I'd have to be able to read her reasoning to begin with. I didn't read much reasoning from her on her reads or how she got there.

I had the opposite opinion of Sanae's reads, and think that she has been pretty clear on why she has most of them, which is why I was asking for clarification.

I felt like her progression on tenshi was very clear. I felt like her takes on Yuuka's claim were word for word what I thought about Yuuka's claim, and she put them in thread first before me because the discussion happened while I was reading, so she could not have been mirroring my opinion.

Both of those felt really good to me.

Now with Eternity Larva she basically said "I agree with you Clownpiece," which I will admit is less impactful then the two above, but Eternity Larva is on the lower end of her town reads and it was stated why she made the list.

I think that Marisa is her only unexplained town read.

I do not consider her "vibes" response to Yuuka read to be reasoning.

I do not consider "I agree with clownpiece" on Larva to be reasoning.

I found her conversation with Tenshi to be kind of sus, it just felt so convenient and neat.

Why does she townread you again? I forgot.

[Koishi Komeiji]

VOTE: Ichirin

[Koishi Komeiji]

I like making unexplained vote changes to momentumize wagons on people that I don't town-read because action creates reaction.

Scum don't fear a town that has their own pet scumreads and are siloed off from each other - scum fear unpredictability and speed.

[Koishi Komeiji]

why would you be ok with dying if Larva explains what she was doing

[Koishi Komeiji]

why would you be ok with dying if Larva explains what she was doing

It's a nice clear goalpost to pass before I get unceremoniously mislimmed D1.

ok but why is it important to you

[Koishi Komeiji]

of Clown, Yuuka, and Koishi, i think Koishi looks the worst by a large margin

and deserves more votes for their transgressions

cool story

[Koishi Komeiji]

why would you be ok with dying if Larva explains what she was doing

Koishi can you explain what you were looking for with this question?

like, what would distinguish a town response from a scum response and how did that inform your read?

I am looking for her internal thought process that makes these posts make sense from a town pov

[Koishi Komeiji]

like what she is saying to the thread is that she thinks she's going to get "mislimmed" and that "the town has randomly voted her" - which could be a TMI slip that we're all town as CP is saying or it could just be she is speaking off the cuff etc.

but the issue I have is that she says she's fine with being misyeeted after Larva explains ____.

which is super weird to me because if I was being run up and about to be misyeeted I wouldnt really care what this one person was doing at this one moment in time in a game that's barely even started.

so I'm asking her why she would be fine with being misyeeted if it larva explained. and her explanation is basically that's her goal for this game, and that's like very ??? to me. What makes that goal so important that you'd be ok with being misyeeted after you accomplish it? the thought process doesn't make sense to me.

but people often don't make sense, people are often emotional about what they do. not every person who doesn't make sense to me has to be mafia because I'm different from other people.

[Koishi Komeiji]

i feel a lot of the weirdness in the response to the pressure can be written off as frustration at being run up for reasons that sie doesn't understand

ok and what differentiates that from scum frustration that they are being run up when they think they did nothing wrong?

[Koishi Komeiji]

i think it would be safer for scum to opt for an appeasing approach in that situation instead of antagonize everyone voting hir and characterize the pressure as an "assault", lol

whereas i buy that frustration from town who is in the midst of a catchup and receives three votes out of nowhere, i can see how that would be demoralizing after returning to the game after being absent for a large chunk of it

sure, it's not impossible to be scum fabricating that reaction to seem town, but it's pretty aggressive for potential scum who has practically zero footing in the game

I'm not saying Ichi is mafia faking frustration, my point was how do you differentiate between scum frustration and town frustration?

For example if Ichi is mafia and Ichi doesn't think she did anything wrong but got hit with three quick votes, Ichi!scum could also feel frustrated about how unfair it is.

I'm asking why do you think this frustration is indicative of town frustration rather than just general frustration with the game state?

[Koishi Komeiji]

i particularly don't really understand why town koishi would say everything they've said but then vote for me and ichirin instead of sanae

I do not believe in solo voting pet scumreads because I don't think there is any point to it. Solo votes are essentially useless. No mafia is ever going to feel "pressured" off a solo vote, you're essentially giving up your voting power for no gain. A game state with 1 or 2 votes everywhere is a game that's going nowhere because mafia are never in danger of feeling pressure to do anything.

I am not "sure" Sanae is mafia; I only present my thoughts as I have them, if some people decide to listen to me and want to wagon Sanae, that's useful information and then I will likely vote there because then there's a real threat. If people are dismissive of my reads, so be it, more likely than not just on pure probability I am wrong and its not an avenue worth pursuing.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I'm gonna be legit sad if Marisa is not town

[Koishi Komeiji]

I'm gonna be legit sad if Marisa is not town

Hey, Koishi-San! Did you see my secret? What do you think about Kochiya-Sama's alignment knowing that?

I have no idea what she is doing in the PT and I don't think a neighborhood is alignment indicative

[Koishi Komeiji]

hmm...i don't think i can agree with this specific gameplay approach, but i guess it's not an unreasonable conclusion to reach from the more basic premise of "the only vote that matters is the last one", which it feels like we might agree on? i guess i personally just don't feel any pressure from relatively empty votes, even if multiple people are voting for me - fairies are used to being hated, after all! though i get that you famously don't like being hated, so maybe that's where the difference comes

I don't really think it matters if you feel pressure - the point is that Ichi felt pressure - gave a reaction - people interacted - some defended her, some pushed her. Yuuka called her mean names and Ichi claimed she was under assault etc etc. These are all more meaningful interactions than if I just randomly sat my vote on some random scumread. I like wagons and I like actions. I'm not saying none of these wagons can go through and we're just voting for the sake of voting - there has to be some plausible threat of death to make the stakes real.

[Koishi Komeiji]

the difference is that frustrated scum has incentive to control themselves and temper their reaction in that situation, frustrated town does not (or at least, has LESS incentive to do so). scum are concerned about survival and antagonizing your wagoners is one of the worst ways to get them off your back, so i guess the way she channeled her frustration does not really align with the mindset i'd expect scum to have. i would still expect genuinely frustrated scum to manipulate the situation in their favor, and i do not sense any sort of manipulation or utilization of that frustration to gain an upper hand in this case

That's fair but the basis of your read is an assumption of competency that is p questionable. Not all scum players play "well" or predictably - I'd even go so far as to argue that because her stratagem is working - for example the wagon on her has stalled, people are defending her for her reaction that her play was the correct one to make if she is mafia. I don't feel the need to keep arguing in circles with you on this point - feel free to get in some last words if you want but I'm going to just lodge this in agree to disagree in my head so as to not have an endless conversation about this.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I do think you're p townie and you want to be "right" on this point.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Koishi Komeiji has been replaced with Koishi Komeiji!

Quite the roller coaster ride seeing my alignment in red text then realizing that no, that is apparently the town factional color this game because the mod is a troll.

I have a bunch to read up on, please bear with me as it may be slow, weekends are not great for me.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Noting that I am Day-Ascetic as well, in case that wasn't claimed out the gate by my predecessor.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Lastly, I should note that I have little to no flavor knowledge so if there's a nickname that I should be aware of that is relevant to your username, please let me know. I don't suppose any kind souls have made a chart of these already, like a decoder ring?

[Koishi Komeiji]

Actually, I'm going to set aside catching up to interact in real time for a bit, if you please.

Oh, that was a good move if Koshi is scum.

I had the same sinking feeling.

The flavor is kind of relevant but it’ll be brought up naturally as the game advances.

Why word that thought in this way, exactly?

[Koishi Komeiji]

I agree that it's not particularly something to town-read me about.

I just found the wording of the way you chose to express it a little weird, and I'm trying to determine if that's a scum-ping or a style-ping. Or a me problem.

A mafia role PM is actually less scary in an anon game, because nobody has any expectations of you to let down. Moot point, but since nobody asked me, I get to deliver this speech anyways.

[Koishi Komeiji]

In anon games, paranoia ceases to become an issue with players, and you read only based upon what's in the thread.

With that said, this is going to be a game of getting a lot of town reads and then having to cross names off the list for not keeping up with the others, I suspect, just from reading the first few pages.

I feel like I want to sit down in a nice cozy neighborhood and drink beer with any and all of {Eternity Larva, Clownpiece, Kagerou} so far but I have to decide if that makes them town, or just sociable.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Oh and UNVOTE:

[Koishi Komeiji]

Oh, as for why it was a good move, because scum try to get town read. A relatable post like that isn’t bad at fostering a sense of, for lack of a better word, kinship or similarity.

I chose to word it like that because you chose to post it like that and my response was.
1. Hey I felt the same way!
2. Maybe that’s what they were going for, but if it was it was a good way of trying to immediately slip the net.

In that case I will take the compliment and otherwise ignore the phrasing.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Sure. I’ll just be over here thinking outloud about your alignment and why you seem to be writing posts thinking out loud and declaring where you’re going, what you’re doing next and why you’re doing it.

I try a new style of play every time I step into an anon game, without exception. Is it particularly grating to you?

I think I'll be very self-evident once I am caught up. At the very least, I expect to be in the top 5 posters by the time this day phase is done. I was going to say that THIS was the most relatable post in the my initial skim of the pages:

i am realizing now how incredibly difficult this game is going to be without flavor knowledge

i am mixing up similar avatars AND similar names already

but then I saw this one:

I can count on one hand the number of games here where people actually use the scum chat enough for this to have happened

And that is the biggest mood I have ever had. Because word for word I was thinking the exact same thing about the exact same post. Doubly so in an anon game where the effort of logging into a different account is required to view your scum chat. People just don't care to.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I feel like I want to sit down in a nice cozy neighborhood and drink beer with any and all of {Eternity Larva, Clownpiece, Kagerou} so far but I have to decide if that makes them town, or just sociable.

Does this mean you're townreading them?

Well that's the kicker. In a vacuum, I feel like that's falling into the trap of "All the active people are town, eliminate from the activity order to win" but sometimes, that's actually just the right thing to do. There's no much in their collective ISOs that I actively hate or that pings me, but in fairness my read-through to get current was about 90% skim and 10% 2% milkfat, at best.

So if I had to say if I was town-binning them, I'd say... yes, but only for day one until more info hits the thread.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Why did you post your first post about the red role pm anyway? Or second. I can’t bother to look.

This reply is a choose your own adventure.

Spoiler: Cynical Answer

To drive engagement with me, and see if anyone was actively watching the thread. And how people would react to it.

Spoiler: Real Answer

I didn't think about it, I just sort of posted it. And now I'm here talking about it with you in a way that is helping me settle into the game so I am glad I did so.

Spoiler: Blatant Lies

To slip the net as a member of the mafia faction, duh.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Oh wow, there's two other green haired accounts that have been talking to me and I didn't even notice. I thought this has been 100% a back and forth with one other player...

[Koishi Komeiji]

No one else replace or my hydra dissonance hate is going to max out and there’s only one a yas on these accounts!

VOTE: Kaguya

Sorry to dash your hopes, dreams, and ambitions on the rocks of reality.
But, I can't ever be the old me that you fell in love with.

[Koishi Komeiji]

my recent interaction with Koishi was encouraging but not necessarily absolving of previous scummy behavior, i'm at a 'wait-and-see' with them for now

what happened to your Clownpiece read?

Narrator: The wait and see did not, in fact, get to ever happen.

i think it would be safer for scum to opt for an appeasing approach in that situation instead of antagonize everyone voting hir and characterize the pressure as an "assault", lol

whereas i buy that frustration from town who is in the midst of a catchup and receives three votes out of nowhere, i can see how that would be demoralizing after returning to the game after being absent for a large chunk of it

sure, it's not impossible to be scum fabricating that reaction to seem town, but it's pretty aggressive for potential scum who has practically zero footing in the game

I'm not saying Ichi is mafia faking frustration, my point was how do you differentiate between scum frustration and town frustration?

For example if Ichi is mafia and Ichi doesn't think she did anything wrong but got hit with three quick votes, Ichi!scum could also feel frustrated about how unfair it is.

I'm asking why do you think this frustration is indicative of town frustration rather than just general frustration with the game state?

the difference is that frustrated scum has incentive to control themselves and temper their reaction in that situation, frustrated town does not (or at least, has LESS incentive to do so). scum are concerned about survival and antagonizing your wagoners is one of the worst ways to get them off your back, so i guess the way she channeled her frustration does not really align with the mindset i'd expect scum to have. i would still expect genuinely frustrated scum to manipulate the situation in their favor, and i do not sense any sort of manipulation or utilization of that frustration to gain an upper hand in this case

yes, scum frustration exists. it is not impossible that Ichi's frustration comes from scum. what i am trying to convey is that i am leaning town on her reaction based on on the things i've pointed out previously

i don't really know what more you want on this point, i feel like we're going in circles and i'm explaining the same thing in different ways over and over again

Good news, I got a brain transplant and the new me agrees with you, slightly. But maybe I should ask you to clarify it one more time just for old time's sake? It'll be fun?

[Koishi Komeiji]

Making a readlists cause reading the thread is not working out

Spoiler:

Besties

Marisa Kirisame - I could go into details but like she's just being obvtown

Eternity Larva - The second obvtown slot

Kaguya Houraisan - A common feeling i have with Kaguya posts is that she's making them for herself and not really for an audience, her overall play has also been decently protown

Reisen Udongein Inaba - maintaining that the Ascetic claim is prolly town, some individual posts like 314 or 313 i really like

Headpats

Ichirin Kumoi - I liked how sie played around the flashwagon, i hear the points about it sounding like TMI / scum anger

Yuuka Kazami - not saying that rude 100% equal good but she certainely feels confident in what she's doing

Koishi Komeiji - acting mildly towny

For later

Sanae Kochiya - Scum leaning but that read is on hold for either substantial agreement / me seeing something more direct to push

Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson eyebrow

Aya Shameimaru - struggling to read through the gimmick right now

Tenshi Hinanawi - ok so maybe this is more a null read but like i kinda completely forgot who this was so not the greatest look i think

Shoot on sight

Clownpiece - I'm starting to really feel dumb for this read but clown piece is playing like how i feel a good scum player would play, will elaborate more but right now i'm not in the mood

Daiyousei - I guess i thought she had more posts than she did but under the gimmick there isn't a lot of info, her recent 349 i don't really know what to make of it so that's a work for future Kagerou

How confident are you about your reads? Because I have an offer for you if you are not that confident. Wait! *gasp*

You called your top tier "besties"! I love it! High fiveeeeee!

But if you are going to call Kaguya your bestie, please explain to me why! I want to have the same friends as you!

i'll admit, my Kaguya read is based a lot on her early posting, right now it's a little less interesting but not actively scummy either, i'm happy keeping her where she is

So, to tell the full story that's this post that's made me townbin her at first

Spoiler:

UNVOTE:

Kaguyas vote on me feels the worst given they pursued a similar line of thought, although mine was seemingly unclear.

There's a key assumption you're making here that's leading you astray.

Regardless my question for Clownpiece was focused more on why those numbers came up while yours was focused on why she knew about flavor not matching to account names in the first place

It's this combination of confident / self-centered / interrogative / focused that tickles my brain

Spoiler:

The Kagerou Townblock Trio :

Marisa / Kaguya / Reisen

i swear i have my reasons

I believe the youngsters these days would describe this as "absolutely cooked"

Also you're probably

not

in the scum PT

?

Their scum partners would explain what clownpiece was talking about.

I can count on one hand the number of games here where people actually use the scum chat enough for this to have happened

I think this is a post from a very towny frame of view for instance, both in the way she's criticizing my townread of her (ie not saying that i'm wrong but not really eager to buy it either)
The indirect tone also view of genuienly trying to recall how it went, and not like, her potentially having a scum PT right in front of her to take example from

and also i know that sounds dumb but like

I'm town

town points for claiming town

Oh somebody beat me to the "I can count on one hand the number of games here where people actually use the scum chat enough for this to have happened" shoutout.

I like this account's body of work.

...Too many townreads on active players, it isn't usually that easy, stahhhhp.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Official Day Two Beer Club

Eternity Larva
Marisa Kirisame
Clownpiece
Kagerou Imaizumi
Yuuka Kazami

I think that club should probably lock at... 6-7 names? Need to find one or two more good solid town-reads then start sorting the leftovers.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Oh hello Larva it's me, definitely the same person you had the back and forth with and not an entirely new brain wearing Koshi's flesh like a suit.

Let's talk about the reactions from Ichirin thing until your blood pressure rises some more.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Official Day Two Beer Club

Eternity Larva
Marisa Kirisame
Clownpiece
Kagerou Imaizumi
Yuuka Kazami

I think that club should probably lock at... 6-7 names? Need to find one or two more good solid town-reads then start sorting the leftovers.

Here's the player list sorted by post count, which is where the issue springs to life...

Kagerou Imaizumi 68
Yuuka Kazami 57
Koishi Komeiji 54
Clownpiece 50
Marisa Kirisame 46

Ichirin Kumoi 41
Sanae Kochiya 38

Eternity Larva 37

Kaguya Houraisan 29
Tenshi Hinanawi 27
Reisen Udongein Inaba 22
Daiyousei 13
Aya Shameimaru 9


Everyone sees the issue here? Yeah...

My bias to town read active players is a massive issue this game if there's at least one, but definitely if there's two, high-energy scum.

[Koishi Komeiji]

What are our thoughts on the first Koishi not claiming the day ascetic when everyone else was?

Oh I would actually like you to elaborate on this please. I'm interested in your take on it!

[Koishi Komeiji]

Well, that's one potentially alignment indicative reply flushed down the toilet by premature intervention.

Sads.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Well, that's one potentially alignment indicative reply flushed down the toilet by premature intervention.

Sads.

Well actually now I want Reisen to explain why they thought it was a good idea to reply on Tenshi's behalf. I also want to know how to make my phone stop automatically correcting these names into gibberish. I'm going to end up adding all of these girls to my phone dictionary at this rate.

[Koishi Komeiji]

But like, you see how you sort of stomped on what was potentially a very good source of information yes? Can we NOT do that going forward? The answering for others thing? Thanks. Good talk.

[Koishi Komeiji]

We also aren’t going to do the condescending language. Just so we are at a mutual understanding.

Yeah I was going to sleep but I didn't want to leave this out there so.


I apologize. My frustrations boiled over and I apologize. The condescending language is recalled, but not my objections.

I thought I had a pretty good winning lotto ticket but then it blew away in the wind.

[Koishi Komeiji]

A quote tag has been murdered in broad daylight. Oh also good morning, no love to the time zone changes.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I do think you're p townie and you want to be "right" on this point.

i do not like this post from old Koishi

Interesting, given that I actually think it was one of pre-lobotomy's best posts.

[Koishi Komeiji]

newkoi saying they like kagerou's body of work gives me the sads in light of my post on the matter ;_; fairies are used to being ignored but that doesn't make it suck any less!

I read the post, I just don't fully (or mostly, actually) agree with your conclusions.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I want to shoot a high-charisma meh slot

VOTE: Marisa

I do not like this vote.

I just wish it had a qualified list of who the high charisma slots are and why Marisa is meh in particular. The latter is strewn throughout their iso I think, but the former isn't a matter of consensus yet so I'm curious to see how Kaguya ranks them. Is she using my list? The vote count rank? Charisma doesn't always equal post count so very curious to see these details once Kaguya returns to the thread.

[Koishi Komeiji]

While I am generally flattered by all the town reads they feel a touch premature? I certainly haven't done anything THAT outside of the average scum range yet... Am I just getting old? Is "can actively participate in the thread without sounding awkward" the new bar?

[Koishi Komeiji]

These posts brought to you by "I had to get up at 7 am which felt like 6 am" brain.

Ooooh and also, bird reporter lady, hopefully your mental improved. This site and game are an outlet to explore mental stressors but if they're making it worse and you need a hug instead that's a thing and it's fine to ask for help. But as other anime girl avatar noted, your alignment is independent from that.

This isn't the era of the meltdown depression town tell any more, and that's for the better to everyone.

[Koishi Komeiji]

If it’s based on old koishi I get it. The read switches around the rep in are interesting but not in a “scum are playing around it” kind of way.

There's nothing I love more than getting to ask people to talk more about me, but actually can you expand upon this? What do you think a scum reaction and play around to my replace in would look like, then, if it's not in the thread by anyone?

[Koishi Komeiji]

That wasn't an expression of a read on you, though. I suppose my language got a touch too flowery to make that out. It was a general statement that I am setting aside your mental entirely and am looking forward to interacting In depth once you're ready!

[Koishi Komeiji]

Well I chose a great time to be away from the game :/

Gonna go ahead and prefer to focus on the results.

I may not agree on Dai's entire "case" on the Kagerou thing but like, I am 500% on board with the sentiment of it looking like kicking down instead of punching up.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I'd like to propose a third front:

Kagerou and I dance until I stop wanting to take them out of the beer club.

Successful dancing will involve scratching under those fluffy ears.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I’m going to see my way out until Koishi finishes their dance.

There are refreshments available at the side tables. I highly recommend the honey mead. Feel free to mingle with the others.

[Koishi Komeiji]

the quiet link if you prefer

just saying this game has a lot of charismatic players which raises the bar for everyone involved

pedit : I would like to get scratched under my ears yes

Okay first task, please list the charismatic players from your POV, bonus half-step point if you rank them within the list.

[Koishi Komeiji]

You pick the second task, once we finish discussing the first.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Do you not think of yourself in the same vein? Where do you slot into that ranked ordering?

[Koishi Komeiji]

Interesting. I have you in my list for that even/despite your insisting that it's not you.

Maybe this game is the self esteem boost you need?

[Koishi Komeiji]

Would you rather I give the same list, or would you like to pick a new task? Both are information, as is how you choose!

[Koishi Komeiji]

Do you actually town read me hard enough that you're fine and comfortable ceding the momentum to me when it's your turn?

Or what gives? Because this feels weird, like you're interacting with an innocent child who has already been thread-announced.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I have the feeling you're doing busywork that I've assigned you; but you're showing no actual drive to sort me in turn.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Me?

Not you.

You're still eating Hors D'oeuvres at the side table. Only focusing on our furry friend at the moment in my replies.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Any dance in a game of mafia, by design, is at least somewhat adversarial.

Especially since I opened this one by going out of my way to state I don't think you deserve to be on my day two ticket list any more.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I... I guess I just don't understand how you can be at 85% town on me but maybe that's a flaw with me and not with you?

[Koishi Komeiji]

I don't think this is going to be helpful :/

I guess I want to hear from the champagne drinkers if any of it was useful for them?

[Koishi Komeiji]

Yes, but the only confirmed innocents are bodies.

And, you know, mod-confirmed innocent children... sometimes.

So that doesn't mean much!

[Koishi Komeiji]

None of these complete wagons spark joy. I am concerned about that.

Propose a bold new venture?

[Koishi Komeiji]

Hmmm, I guess my next thing should be a more serious review of that ISO.

I feel like there's a few things I liked in knock-off Akiha's ISO...

[Koishi Komeiji]

I can buy a momentum argument, if you think the leading wagons are all town. Do you?

(You probably have stated reads that answer this but these names are HARD, shush)

[Koishi Komeiji]

I also think they're casually lying about minor things to hide themselves from scrutiny.

Do you have any examples of where you're seeing this?

[Koishi Komeiji]

I've lost the plot completely here too.

Just gonna step away and come back with fresh brain.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I've lost the plot completely here too.

Just gonna step away and come back with fresh brain.

before you leave give me gun to head a read on Tenshi

I lied I've been here reading in real time but not replying to stuff as to give my brain space to think not post but since this might be relevant and I missed it on first pass: not in my beer list, in my possible votes like but not strongly so in any manner. Hope this helps, although it probably doesn't!

Back to lurking kbye

[Koishi Komeiji]

And yes I realize this is not giving an answer to a gun to head question~

[Koishi Komeiji]

i am feeling a little less engaged with this game right now mostly because i'm struggling to reconcile my desire town-bloc to and PoE scum BECAUSE of my large amount of townreads with acknowledging the fact that i need to raise my standards when it comes to assigning townreads in the first place

maybe that's day 2 Larva's problem

It's called "making a beer list" and it's SOOOOOO ten pages ago.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Synopsis:
New!Koishi is towny as hell.

Get me-Koshi shot N1 challenge coming along fine it seems.

[Koishi Komeiji]

my fun and unique hot take that i am still not townreading Koishi overall even with 2.0 doing their best to redeem that slot!

Thank you, finally somebody does that.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I'm happy to answer that last bit, but I kind of want to see you puzzle it together first.

Paranoia is a helluva weird thing for an anon game. But hey you do you.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Good post if you're scum Larvae.
Very townie mindset.

My real hope out of the way I've approached this day so far is that somebody would push against the consensus and give reasons to NOT town read me in a super obvtown sort of way and it just paid off magnificently.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Good post if you're scum Larvae.
Very townie mindset.

My real hope out of the way I've approached this day so far is that somebody would push against the consensus and give reasons to NOT town read me in a super obvtown sort of way and it just paid off magnificently.

It doesn’t do us much good if they are already townbinned by majority of the playerlist, though.

Sure, but this was a greedy self-validation sort of thing. I don't really mind if it does nothing for the rest of you or just affirms the general consensus if it helps me!

[Koishi Komeiji]

I really only care about the paranoia part, as far as explanations from Larvitar at this point.

What makes me in particular paranoia-worthy?

[Koishi Komeiji]

Good post if you're scum Larvae.
Very townie mindset.

My real hope out of the way I've approached this day so far is that somebody would push against the consensus and give reasons to NOT town read me in a super obvtown sort of way and it just paid off magnificently.

I mean it's not my fault given i've been hinting at it several times in plain sight?

[Koishi Komeiji]

Unless you're emoting that you saw it and are playing me like a cheap fiddle in which case, take your victory lap I guess?

[Koishi Komeiji]

I can hear the laughter in the mafia PT.

You're totally just taking that victory lap aren't you.

But I can't bring myself to vote you ever now so you already won just take me to endgame with you I guess.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I mean, my immediate thought when you said that, was that you were trying to take credit for a post Larvae made, there was no guarantee they'd make a townie post. It's a general sentiment but it doesn't raise your own boat/ship. Or at least, it didn't for me.

No, I was just elated that somebody went against the consensus AND did so in such a town way that my hopes and dreams paid off. I don't really expect or want anyone else to figure it into their read of me, not that I can enforce that obviously.


Wheels within wheels within wheels. Everything has multiple uses, sometimes they even work out.

[Koishi Komeiji]

If I had started this game instead of replaced in I'd probably have gone for somebody more scheming, to fit the feel I'm going for this game.

I don't think this character could scheme her way out of a paper bag based on the wiki.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Cool yeah I'm never voting that ever.

[Koishi Komeiji]

That's fine, I don't expect to make it that far!

[Koishi Komeiji]

This is the main games rating, not Ao3.

BONK to horny jail with you lot.

[Koishi Komeiji]

koishi i need to reread to get an idea of who they think is mafia

That would require me having expressed any, which I definitely have not done!

That's tomorrow's homework. I'm doing my best to play in the moment and work with gathering town folks for the beer list, but my scum hunting process really does require dedicated time and research in a way that I just don't get on most weekends, and especially THIS weekend when I am mostly confined to phone posting.

That said, this looks like a really weird way to talk about me when you have much wordier qualifiers on the rest of the people you were asked about? It's not like I haven't been majorly present since your last block of reads, I suspect I'm going to be showing up on this week's episode of Hyperposters Least Wanted, starting John Walsh.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Tenshi is also worthy of the Reisen treatment

You could try and interact with Tenshi to read her, I hear she's an open book.

Oooh, me, pick me, real time interactions are all I have right now.

Can you walk me through the thought processes you have had about my back and forth with the Larvitar, MINUS the horny? If I missed them you may instead link to the post and shame me.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I really only care about the paranoia part, as far as explanations from Larvitar at this point.

What makes me in particular paranoia-worthy?

Were you targeting Eternity in particular for this read, or were you hoping you'd get a strong townread on ~someone?

The latter. I figured it was gonna be Marisa that went that way, though, so I lost that self-bet.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Oh interesting did Dai copy Larvitar's question-homework?

Koishi i've seen several town reads from you, but do you have any scum reads and if so can you provide some detail on them?

koishi i need to reread to get an idea of who they think is mafia

Probably nothing but it does stand out weirdly to me for some reason?

[Koishi Komeiji]

Quoting is pain by the way. My mobile browser has like thirty tabs open.

The things I do for love/mafia.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I honestly have been townreading both of you, which is why I am kinda bored by Larva getting townread for scumreading you when I’ve been townreading Larva all game.

I guess in all, I feel meh about it. It doesn’t move either of your needles for me. I liked your interactions with Kagerou however.

That's the wolf lass? Yeah. I just wish I felt better after dancing there. What was the post in which you town binned Larvitar?

[Koishi Komeiji]

I want to shoot a high-charisma meh slot

VOTE: Marisa

I do not like this vote.

I just wish it had a qualified list of who the high charisma slots are and why Marisa is meh in particular. The latter is strewn throughout their iso I think, but the former isn't a matter of consensus yet so I'm curious to see how Kaguya ranks them. Is she using my list? The vote count rank? Charisma doesn't always equal post count so very curious to see these details once Kaguya returns to the thread.

I'm generally using Charisma as a proxy for that X-factor that gets people scumread/townread while doing the exact same thing. In this case Marisa was pretty widely townread but when I actually looked at her ISO it was pretty barren outside of just dropping lightly explained reads. No real poking or prodding or interrogation

Other high charisma slots I'd need to reread so if you actually want it let me know so I can save myself the busywork

I just want to know who else you actually looked at to qualify the statement of "I want to shoot a high charisma meh slot" or if you always wanted Marisa and just added that rest on as a descriptor.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I read your catch up posts a couple times, and my overwhelming response was : "meh"

So my opinion has not been swayed.

I on the other hand read them as was left feeling whelmed.

The irony of calling them meh after their vote on Marisa is not lost on me though!

[Koishi Komeiji]

I'm hoping that the bird girl comes back soon and we can talk about other items with her. I think that would be helpful for my understanding of the game state now.

[Koishi Komeiji]

The reporter. Aya.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I might be going crazy, but I could have sworn that Aya made some sort of bird joke earlier? It's why I called them the bird reporter. I sit corrected, I guess?

[Koishi Komeiji]

Okay yeah i recall why. I wiki'd it and she's Species: Crow Tengu.

Which my very limited knowledge of touhou mythology believes makes her a bird-girl?

[Koishi Komeiji]

Oh hey that p-edit. Yeah.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Time to pass out, livechat over

I too have decided it is time for the sleeping.

Good night, friends, frenemies, and whatever larva is.

[Koishi Komeiji]

But, new koichi is also playing intentionally positionally.

This is silly! Or rather, what does this even mean?

I’m like 95 percent sure I know who new koichi is and I’m trying to separate the player from the slot but I don’t think that’s going to work for me.

Sounds like a you problem, my body of work in this game is hardly unreadable.

Also feel like koichi can sniff out who I am off this post but that’s fine I guess.

You're a GuyInFreezer alt. So is every other player in this game, including me. The entire game is just GuyInFreezer playing make believe mafia with his touhou dolls. It's the best mindset one can possibly adopt.

[Koishi Komeiji]

VOTE: ichirin

I feel like I’d have to pull a Holmes type of case out to pursue my scumreads so I’ll sit on it for now.

Which reads are you referring to when you said this?

Kaguya Houraisan - null scum
Eternity Larva - null scum
Ichirin Kumoi - null scum
Daiyousei - null scum

I think that the only person on this list that would fit the bill would Eternity Larva, are they your strongest null scum read?

Why do you keep making posts I was going to make?

Curse my inability to get to a real PC until this evening.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Except one other edit, I'd argue that it's more the current consensus POE than just yours, Clownpiece.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Official Day Two Beer Club

Eternity Larva
Marisa Kirisame
Clownpiece
Kagerou Imaizumi
Yuuka Kazami

I think that club should probably lock at... 6-7 names? Need to find one or two more good solid town-reads then start sorting the leftovers.

Here's the player list sorted by post count, which is where the issue springs to life...

Kagerou Imaizumi 68
Yuuka Kazami 57
Koishi Komeiji 54
Clownpiece 50
Marisa Kirisame 46

Ichirin Kumoi 41
Sanae Kochiya 38

Eternity Larva 37

Kaguya Houraisan 29
Tenshi Hinanawi 27
Reisen Udongein Inaba 22
Daiyousei 13
Aya Shameimaru 9


Everyone sees the issue here? Yeah...

My bias to town read active players is a

massive issue this game if there's at least one, but definitely if there's two, high-energy scum.

Hey look it's the last line of my super early post being annoyingly relevant again. What sucks is even despite knowing that, is that this game is so enjoyable to banter in that its really hard to peer behind the curtains and figure out who amongst those high energy folks I don't like.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Oh but I did have two things I want to follow up on/highlight.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Well, that's one potentially alignment indicative reply flushed down the toilet by premature intervention.

Sads.

Well actually now I want Reisen to explain why they thought it was a good idea to reply on Tenshi's behalf. I also want to know how to make my phone stop automatically correcting these names into gibberish. I'm going to end up adding all of these girls to my phone dictionary at this rate.

I didn't like this, I still don't like it even with the explanation provided.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I really only care about the paranoia part, as far as explanations from Larvitar at this point.

What makes me in particular paranoia-worthy?

i felt paranoid at the large amount of town reads i was getting early game but didn't dwell on it because i had town reads on most of the people vocalizing them and no one tried to over explain or justify

you have every motivation to endear yourself to me as scum, so

lumping me in with your "high activity town reads" is just a weird justification and aligns with how i'd expect scum in your position to handle me

you specifically greeted me as soon as i entered the thread after you replaced in
you called out a post of mine that was largely inconsequential and made a point to emphasize how it was "the most relatable post"
you've made more than one joke about continuing our back-and-forth to make my blood boil

nothing bad on its own, and honestly you do seem like a fun person to hang out with! but all of it together feels like a pattern and comes across as calculated

Going to note that you misread my post about high activity posters, or rather, the method in which I was sorting players... Yes, post count was a factor in it, but the beer list was a factor of post count AND post impact, and if you want to sit here and argue that your content to noise ratio was anything other than heavily town-solving, then uh, you do you but then I get to have the win of you being unable to understand my thought processes. Which, that and 2 bucks at Costco can get me a hotdog and soda combo. The blue texting of the sort by activity shows you as a slight outlier, MAYBE< but you're still well within the top half even at that point in time.

[Koishi Komeiji]

The back and forths with Larva will continue until moral improves. Deal with it, Larva.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I think I’m relatively satisfied with where my reads are at, so, as long as nobody threatens them

*Places ur reads inside a giant pair of pruning shears*

[Koishi Komeiji]

Its always sad when you make a a big content posts and then refresh for 5 mins straight, and no one is here to talk to you about is

I'm here-ish but you probably don't want me.

[Koishi Komeiji]

No one wants to listen to me, but I still think that this is scum:
Ichirin

Yeah about that.

Radioactive decay theory is a thing.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Its always sad when you make a a small post and then refresh for 60 seconds straight, and no one is here to talk to you about it

[Koishi Komeiji]

The blue haired one read is decaying with a half life of half a day because it feels like said blue haired one got enough Town Cred and rode off into the sunset of low posting.

I am mobile and cannot look up pronouns so I am being direct instead hope that's okay.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Yes you insertsillyinsulthere this is me echoing your words back to you to tell you that somebody agrees with you.

[Koishi Komeiji]

It's hard to believe that the clown of all people needs the sarcasm tag to be visible.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I want to shoot a high-charisma meh slot

VOTE: Marisa

I do not like this vote.

I just wish it had a qualified list of who the high charisma slots are and why Marisa is meh in particular. The latter is strewn throughout their iso I think, but the former isn't a matter of consensus yet so I'm curious to see how Kaguya ranks them. Is she using my list? The vote count rank? Charisma doesn't always equal post count so very curious to see these details once Kaguya returns to the thread.

Yes hi that was also me.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Don't vibes read me then!

That's actually kind of a sin I mark as mafia indicative when people town read me (or another player for that matter) for emotional or vibe reasons instead of the content and actual game moving and results that is already visible in the thread for all to see.


It's my one major remaining worry about the crow.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Hmm. Maybe this is a "the way I see and project things further by default" thing because I really don't expect to be called content less when the probing questions I do ask absolutely are generating data, they're just mixed in with the chummy mantra of a neighborhood pub mafia game between fellow patrons.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I just sat down at a keyboard for more than a 5-minute stretch for about the first time since replacing in.

So while I cannot answer that question right this second, you WILL get a full reads list form me tonight. I prefer to generate content and questions and then read the tea leaves a few days later once I have my big screen real estate and ability to multi-ISO. Sorry if that's a grating playstyle, but it's what I'm going with here.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Is "reading off the strength of probing" really only a me thing> I thought this was very common?

Oh well!

Prepare for an avalanche of a wall post~

[Koishi Komeiji]

Sanae Kochiya, She/Her of the slightly smug looking green hair

Things I liked

-Willingness to throw out early town reads, as in posts 22 and 64. And 120.
-Mindmeled with my catchup post-brain reading along as of post 113, that scum almost certainly has a role name (and to add, a fakeclaim given mod meta) that does not match an account.
-The scum read of Dai as of post 161 is not something she has really budged on since. I usually put scum reads that are completely inflexible that are latched onto early as a pretty large town indicator, scum tend to be more shifty, especially in an anon game where voting pattern meta is not a thing.
-213 in its entirety. I don't know that in an anon game I roll scum and I play this self-aware of my not voting and then giving a weasel-out to my reads unless I am scum with exactly the two people I claim to be scum reading and feeling cheeky as possible.
-The fact that not ALL of her reads are inflexible, only the Dai one. Specifically, she had already changed her mind on my slot before the replace-in.
-Post 566, especially since my reaction was much the same just more verbose.
-Post 576 for following up on it as well.
-Post 594 for being emotionally intelligent but not diverting from path (602 much the same)
-1130 snap-read because sometimes a single post just really does matter and calling it there limits a scum-Sanae's options in a way she wouldn't be aiming for.

Things I disliked

-Post 176- So you can indeed induce reads based upon the style of questions and how they drive the game forward, but don't seem to see that in the new me yet? Weird.

Things I cannot Grok?

-709, a little bit? Explain using more words to me because it doesn't make sense.

Overall Verdict: Would probably die for.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Imagine formatting your thoughts instead of just spewing them on the thread

Well, it's also how I collect all those random thoughts from my notes PT. Otherwise my post count would be quadrupled and my longer reaction tests would never work out.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Clownpiece, They/Them that may move on from piece to violence, actually

Things I liked

-Post 17 and the willingness to townbin early.
-Post 20, If I'd gotten a role and account name difference and been in the game from the start I'd have been playing 20 questions with GuyInFreezer too, until I beat all of the mech out of him I possibly could, then one extra thwack for good measure.
-Post 145, willingness to push back on a different mod answer. I feel like if clownpiece is scum here they just let that one sit? There's no real loss to dropping it.
-163 is another "I agree with this person on mech" and they're pushing people into the townbin early with no regards for keeping enough people in the elim end of the kiddie pool
-Post 201 is another callback to it and this sticking point being a sore spot just bleeds green all over the floor. Mop up in the clown wigs aisle, please.
-The poking at my predecessor in 214 and 217 are the exact things I would have done from the outside. Those sorts of probing and direct questions gather tons of data and are usually the best possible tool of Realtime interactions. 231 as well.
-I'd say the focus on mech is a little high, but like, at the same time, it's all been trying to mech-solve ways to town read people, which in a a game like this, I don't think scum are hurting for town reads, they want extra gimmie scum reads instead, ideally not on their partners. This bullet point started off as me trying to think of something I actually hated but then I realized that actually no, it's part of this section, deal with it.
-...Is that my logic on Clownpiece-town being used in the past by Clownpiece in post 249 to town-read my predecessor? Wild.
-442 is actively shutting down the highest-vote wagon, and in a game state like this, what usually happens is that votes will start to slide around, but all of a sudden out of nowhere a wagon will form on a player with immense strength. Usually off of a case or some sort of "gotcha". Mafia are usually eager to see if this will jsut happen to anyone not in their faction, so actively shouting down wagons you disagree with in THIS specific sort of game state is extremely protown marking, IMO.

Things I disliked

Things I cannot Grok?

The entire section and back and forth with the Blue-haired one is something a little deeper-reading-into-it than I thought the reaction was. But this is probably style mismatch?

Overall Verdict: Would absolutely die for.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Kaguya, They/Them that looks like an Akiha knock-off but probably predates her character design by years idk

Things I liked

-45 and 46, a naked vote followed up with explanation the next post, but going out of your way to naked vote to make it stand out, like putting it in bold in an otherwise boring essay.
-54 and 55, while somebody would have done this eventually, initiative is there, but still making 66 to put a nice little conditional bow on the read.
-Post 339 is still my favorite post of the early game, sue me.
-Post 343 (in hindsight knowing what that reason is) to me screams "townie putting info into the thread just in case they die and the flips help people figure it out"
-Post 545, especially knowing later that the snap town read-them-for-it post is gonna happen. It was like the trailer for the big movie.
-The cheeky question -flip back about the Marisa read in 552 though. Crisp.
-906 is actually a pretty decent tl;dr of an ISO. Or rather, I find it absolutely believable that Kaguya got there from where they started.
-910 is a decent take
-the SECOND answer in 926 to the how do ISO query is actually completely in line with behavior and motive of a townie getting left in the dirt by a shitty hyper poster who is missing a keyboard so phone posts to death. Not that I know anyone who would to that.
-Knowing post 1129 exists means I'm skipping over a lot of the back-and-forth about Aya-posting because that entire section of the game I am not touching until Aya comes back, tbh?

Things I disliked

-59 to me seems to be uh, wasted post. It's the sort of mech busywork that's very surface level and doesn't actually push the game forward, really?
-548 and 549 when not followed up with a list or reason for how that was being determined and failing to answer that later still kinda sits sour with me
-I didn't really like the answer of 551, but I get that it may be "time I have to spend on the game" indicative more than anything else
-909 just feels weird.

Things I cannot Grok?

-I don't know to +town or +scum the whole "I am town" thing and then the snark in post 419 after it. So it goes here in the null callouts!
-I'm terrible at getting anything out of back and forth like the ones in 913

Overall Verdict: Town. Don't know if worth jumping on the grenade for though!

[Koishi Komeiji]

I'm doing three more of these tonight and then I'm probably taking a break to let my brain recover. I will pick two but let the active banter-y folks pick the third! The two I am gonna do next are Kagerou and Yuuka.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I can respect your reasons to dislike, I feel like the interaction with Ichirin about the “I’m town” post might be something we need to revisit later with more information.

I uh, actually had already picked those three before I saw the request.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Sorry to ruin your one chance of feeling seen!

[Koishi Komeiji]

I vote Ichirin if I get a vote, then

Actually this one got veto'd by the below so long as sie materializes additional real content after said readup, especially given that there's been talk of people who would/would not vote hir recently.

Direly need to get back into the swing of things, I'll reread from my last post sometime soon.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Don't worry, it's because the universe DOES hate you! Hope that helps.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Yuuka, They/Them of the red eyes green (haired) dragon

Things I liked

-114 feels like the sort of thing that, yeah, seems less likely if they're mafia and have that info that they can fake this post. And then I really like the immediate follow-up of 117 to caution/note that claiming this outright quickly might be bad.
-121 and 122 in general are written like somebody at once frustrated with GuyInFreezer who probably sent some trolly "nope" answer back, but still trying to read the tea leaves on what does work, collaboratively. I'm not sure scum-Yuuka goes into their mafia PT, asks the question, then has the insight to go back and talk about the answers in the game PT, but if they did then bravo, that's a new one for me. Usually the mental barrier of keeping the two chats nowhere near each other means people don't do this, in my experience. Never seen it. Zilch. And I'm OLD.
484 487 and then into it 491 seems like the correct kind of probing question.
728 is a vibe that I too picked up on around this time.
2067 is a decent set of points about the Reisen ISO. Will revisit this if my conclusions are massively different when I get to this slot.

Things I disliked

-In post 8 specifying 3p instead of just "scum" seemed... weird? Maybe this is the way their brain worked by why be suspecting a 3P this early into the game?
-Post 11 is another example of the thing that pings me to no end, which is answering questions during the middle of a direct interaction. It muddys waters and I HATE HATE HATE HATE it.
-232 is just one of those things that are clearly eye-rolling, but my hate is not for the use of it, but their lack of trying to make it worth any actual data afterwards. Why bother with this post then NOT bother to apply any pressure whatsoever instead of just... dropping it? It's like the Davy Back Fight arc in One Piece. Shit filler.
-536 is just such an awkward way to make this post, like the need for re-enforcing that they're NOT scum feeling that way... If Aya does turn out to be confirmed town at any point this series of pages probably needs more scrutiny and a reread with that in mind.
-744 is a decent post to make about this specific situation. Calling for accountability is good.
-784 is also fairly town in thought process.
-949 is a believably town post about feelings on the no touching area of the game.
-The line about what Sanae-scum might or might not do in 959 is a good line of a post that is otherwise forgettable.
-977 is odd for somebody who is self-admitted to playing tryhard, like, you're the one with the energy in the game, why not seek out a deeper dive of Dai's posts BEFORE seeking permissions ITT to scum read them?

Things I cannot Grok?

-Their actual role as claimed goes HERE in the nulls, folks. Read them off of other stuff. GuyInFreezer is a known troll mod who loves putting too scummy to be scum bullshit in his games like he's a kid in a candy store, but all the shelves are his height and he also has a giant shop-vac to scoop them up faster than by hand.
-The open hostility that starts around post 256 or so, just... I don't know... who hurt you? It's not like 336 was any less demeaning?
-474 was decent, but I wasn't the happiest about their reply to my follow-up question about it they gave in 480 and 482. So it evens out?
-730 I just don't know what that means and I'm the shitty metaphor one usually.
-938 is in the same "Waiting until Aya is back to discuss it from both ends" bin of no touching.

Overall Verdict: I'm definitely not jumping on a grenade for them, they're middle of the pack at best, which is NOT what I expected going into this one.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Hmm, it's getting quite late. Going to have to save those other two for tomorrow night's batch, unfortunately. Back to phone posting shortly before bed.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Yes as they were still slightly higher than null, I'm listing things that pushed me one direction or another. Why, do you disagree with any of them?

...Did I put them in the wrong section?

[Koishi Komeiji]

Oh goodness I sure did.

I will edit it tomorrow when I have the right tools. Not attempting that on a mobile device.

[Koishi Komeiji]

@Koishi I'm somewhat surprised you came out with the conclusion you did on Yuuka based on your commentary, which seems to be leaning more positive

232 is worth like ten bullet points.

[Koishi Komeiji]

And you'll note that there was very little I disliked on the very town reads I have so far.

[Koishi Komeiji]

It was intended as a way to reaction test the whole "Immune to day abilities" thing but then just... never got followed up on.

A reaction test without probing for reactions is just a filler attempt to look busy without caring about the outcome.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Eh. I know you're saying that now but it didn't feel like that at the time, and I feel like town making that even as a joke tires to go somewhere with it. But hey, I'm possibly wrong!

[Koishi Komeiji]

Yuuka, They/Them of the red eyes green (haired) dragon

Things I liked

-114 feels like the sort of thing that, yeah, seems less likely if they're mafia and have that info that they can fake this post. And then I really like the immediate follow-up of 117 to caution/note that claiming this outright quickly might be bad.
-121 and 122 in general are written like somebody at once frustrated with GuyInFreezer who probably sent some trolly "nope" answer back, but still trying to read the tea leaves on what does work, collaboratively. I'm not sure scum-Yuuka goes into their mafia PT, asks the question, then has the insight to go back and talk about the answers in the game PT, but if they did then bravo, that's a new one for me. Usually the mental barrier of keeping the two chats nowhere near each other means people don't do this, in my experience. Never seen it. Zilch. And I'm OLD.
484 487 and then into it 491 seems like the correct kind of probing question.
728 is a vibe that I too picked up on around this time.
2067 is a decent set of points about the Reisen ISO. Will revisit this if my conclusions are massively different when I get to this slot.
-744 is a decent post to make about this specific situation. Calling for accountability is good.
-784 is also fairly town in thought process.
-949 is a believably town post about feelings on the no touching area of the game.
-The line about what Sanae-scum might or might not do in 959 is a good line of a post that is otherwise forgettable.
-977 is odd for somebody who is self-admitted to playing tryhard, like, you're the one with the energy in the game, why not seek out a deeper dive of Dai's posts BEFORE seeking permissions ITT to scum read them?

Things I disliked

-In post 8 specifying 3p instead of just "scum" seemed... weird? Maybe this is the way their brain worked by why be suspecting a 3P this early into the game?
-Post 11 is another example of the thing that pings me to no end, which is answering questions during the middle of a direct interaction. It muddys waters and I HATE HATE HATE HATE it.
-232 is just one of those things that are clearly eye-rolling, but my hate is not for the use of it, but their lack of trying to make it worth any actual data afterwards. Why bother with this post then NOT bother to apply any pressure whatsoever instead of just... dropping it? It's like the Davy Back Fight arc in One Piece. Shit filler.
-536 is just such an awkward way to make this post, like the need for re-enforcing that they're NOT scum feeling that way... If Aya does turn out to be confirmed town at any point this series of pages probably needs more scrutiny and a reread with that in mind.

Things I cannot Grok?

-Their actual role as claimed goes HERE in the nulls, folks. Read them off of other stuff. GuyInFreezer is a known troll mod who loves putting too scummy to be scum bullshit in his games like he's a kid in a candy store, but all the shelves are his height and he also has a giant shop-vac to scoop them up faster than by hand.
-The open hostility that starts around post 256 or so, just... I don't know... who hurt you? It's not like 336 was any less demeaning?
-474 was decent, but I wasn't the happiest about their reply to my follow-up question about it they gave in 480 and 482. So it evens out?
-730 I just don't know what that means and I'm the shitty metaphor one usually.
-938 is in the same "Waiting until Aya is back to discuss it from both ends" bin of no touching.

Overall Verdict: I'm definitely not jumping on a grenade for them, they're middle of the pack at best, which is NOT what I expected going into this one.

I moved the four items that were misfiled.

It is absolute hilarity to me that everyone hates this conclusion/take. When there are a LOT of surface level town players, sorry not sorry, but I'm only taking in the ones I think have little to no flaws into my town block. It's not that I don't think that Yuuka can be town ever here, and I'm not going to be voting her today in most scenarios, but "die for them" levels of read this is not.

[Koishi Komeiji]

uh Koishi why is half your scumcase on Yuuka points for her being town

Because it's misformatted

yeah like duh i'm more curious as to how it came to be misformatted like that

I did two browser windows side by side, one with the game thread where I scrolled through noting any posts by the player in question that pinged me in any of the three categories into a PT post on the other side. But you can't do the post tags on those because in a notes PT they'll just fail/error out. So instead once I was done I copy-pasted the bullet points in small chunks to the editor for the main thread, adding tags as I went. I copy-pasted the last four into the wrong heading at the end, and it was super late and I missed that I'd done so. My conclusion, however, was written before the copy-pasting began. (As was everything else in the post) I stand by my conclusions, to boot.

[Koishi Komeiji]

"Middle of the road at best" is absolutely NOT a only-scum case when there are 12 slots to sort and only 3 mafia at best here.

I walked into that process expecting to put you at clownpiece tier. I very much did not leave the process wanting to do that.

[Koishi Komeiji]

It'll be this evening.

I'm not going down the rabbit hole of arguing over my wording choice when:

A: I stand by it.
and
B: at the end of this wall project i'm going to be giving an in-specific-order reads list anyways.
and
C: I am stuck on my phone until after work.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Things I disliked

-Post 11 is another example of the thing that pings me to no end, which is answering questions during the middle of a direct interaction. It muddys waters and I HATE HATE HATE HATE it.

this is an ichirin post ?_?

111, not 11. The keyboard ate the middle digit, apparently.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I'm seeing a lot of effort-posting, and posting that's trying to position themselves in the gamestate, but I'm not seeing a lot of townposting or solving

@Koishi - what do you think of this take?

That you and I approach and view the game differently, and that I'm not going to let that stop me from playing my way today.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I disagree about solving, as someone who also POEs. If I look I could say it’s nothing SUPER town but it’s also weird because I feel a bit jaded with how much I didn’t like that reaction to 232.

In the spirit of this being an anon game I cannot and will not cite the numerous examples myself and others should have with this exact situation, so you'll have to either:

A: Believe I believe this
B: Believe that I am full of BS without looking it up
C: Do your own homework to get to A

[Koishi Komeiji]

It's going to be a while, so probably spend your time doing other game-advancing things?

[Koishi Komeiji]

Bird is back?

[Koishi Komeiji]

Bird was but not is back.

Ichirin catchup wall, reading now.

[Koishi Komeiji]

This reporter phoning in from her mental health retreat with a huge scoop! Digital Media is the way of the future, and by digital media I mean using the Wind God's blessings to send pamphlets to everyone. Youkai's Witness, or something to that effect.

If this is a day action then I regret to inform you that you've managed to delete me off of your subscriber rolls.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Bird was but not is back.

Ichirin catchup wall, reading now.

Bird is back! Back a bird! Bird is back! Tell more birds!

Before the bird gets her super duper special wall of love, care, and puppyhugs, I need the bird to clarify if their town read of me after the whole going to bed thing was in jest, serious, or was in jest but is now serious, or was in jest and now is flipped to scum. Or some magical fifth option.

And a few other things I'd love to see, naturally, but we can start there if you'd rather have this be conversational instead of expecting you to start throwing content into the thread alone.

[Koishi Komeiji]

To actually get back on productive things: I do not particularly think my reads of Daiyousei or Kagerou are forced, because I'm pretty sure Dai was just speaking divine truth about Kagerou. And I'm a monk, trust me on this one.

Hello it is I, confused Koishi, who read your wall that barely mentioned me but I am apparently your second-favorite bodybag-to-be?

[Koishi Komeiji]

Bird was but not is back.

Ichirin catchup wall, reading now.

Bird is back! Back a bird! Bird is back! Tell more birds!

Before the bird gets her super duper special wall of love, care, and puppyhugs, I need the bird to clarify if their town read of me after the whole going to bed thing was in jest, serious, or was in jest but is now serious, or was in jest and now is flipped to scum. Or some magical fifth option.

And a few other things I'd love to see, naturally, but we can start there if you'd rather have this be conversational instead of expecting you to start throwing content into the thread alone.

Nah, a reporter's editorials are always serious! You're town.

Okay then, follow up question why?

Oh, and also, like, murder of crows joke here, who do you want to murder?

[Koishi Komeiji]

i feel like i am onto someone and that person does something incredibly townie that makes me second guess myself

Who was this in reference to?

[Koishi Komeiji]

This is... not what I expected from you when returning into the thread seeing people debating voting me.

Hmm.

[Koishi Komeiji]

i have not read the last like eight or so pages thoroughly

i didn't even know people wanted to vote you

this news is lifting my spirits!

I mean, it's still not gonna happen, but you're welcome!

[Koishi Komeiji]

Spicy

Isn't it just?

[Koishi Komeiji]

(and also apparently having a strange Yuuka case)

Something about the way you worded this feels like... off? Can you elaborate, because this sounds like you don't actually care about it, but about how OTHERS perceived it? Do you not have an opinion of your own?

[Koishi Komeiji]

i know i just voted Koishi but i do not understand why everyone and their mother took issue with their characterization of Yuuka as "middle-of-the-road"?

what is so horrible about them drawing that conclusion?

"People should look over the slots that are getting a free ride"

"No no not like that"

[Koishi Komeiji]

(and also apparently having a strange Yuuka case)

Something about the way you worded this feels like... off? Can you elaborate, because this sounds like you don't actually care about it, but about how OTHERS perceived it? Do you not have an opinion of your own?

I've literally said I haven't looked at those posts yet, I've only noticed the discussion around the Yuuka one.

Okay, so that was a realistic position for you two hours ago, but why are you not making a point of going back to read? You've made posts since so you HAVE been here?

[Koishi Komeiji]

I've also said I'm waiting for the Yuuka revision, to boot.

Uhhh...

[Koishi Komeiji]

I think this does serve as proof that hir understanding of the thread is incomplete and that sie has not read the posts that were in between. I just don't think that actually does anything for us.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Koishi if you are doing more walls tonight can you do one on your largest scum read?

I was going to do walls tonight, but now I am not.

IRL stuff that going into is OGI-y risk, so suffice it to say let's just go with "Extremely bad headspace and honestly I probably shouldn't even be posting here but Mafia is a helluva drug"

[Koishi Komeiji]

That’s a discredit, but like, their case neither requires nor is assisted by a more through review of every post in the game.

Wow people think the wildest shit is a discredit these days.

It was a major focus of several pages of the game. Of course it's shocking to have a player missing it.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Koichi’s ego is hard for me to wrap my head around . Even though my own ego is at least bobblehead tier.

Just wait for the id and superego.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Koishi if you are doing more walls tonight can you do one on your largest scum read?

I was going to do walls tonight, but now I am not.

IRL stuff that going into is OGI-y risk, so suffice it to say let's just go with "Extremely bad headspace and honestly I probably shouldn't even be posting here but Mafia is a helluva drug"

that's ok take care of yourself!

I'm instead here in chat mode because events like this are what generates the most data and drives the game forward, even if we have 2 possibly 3 folks failing their spot checks with a natural 1.

[Koishi Komeiji]

ftr i want to put my vote back on Kagerou but i just dramatically naked-voted Koishi to be spicy and i can't bring myself to immediately retract that

I am genuinely glad you did, the data generated is extremely useful for the future.

[Koishi Komeiji]

ftr i want to put my vote back on Kagerou but i just dramatically naked-voted Koishi to be spicy and i can't bring myself to immediately retract that

I am genuinely glad you did, the data generated is extremely useful for the future.

you have piqued my curiosity?

what kind of data did it generate, and on who?

Well for one, that it took Yuuka until you actively hinted you were ready to vote me, to vote me.

[Koishi Komeiji]

ftr i want to put my vote back on Kagerou but i just dramatically naked-voted Koishi to be spicy and i can't bring myself to immediately retract that

I am genuinely glad you did, the data generated is extremely useful for the future.

you have piqued my curiosity?

what kind of data did it generate, and on who?

Well for one, that it took Yuuka until you actively hinted you were ready to vote me, to vote me.

This despite several mentions of calling "BS on Koi" prior to the past few pages.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I am SO affirmed that they don't belong in my willing to die for tier.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Re Yuukas vote on Koishi, despite telegraphed, Yuuka was not around until almost an hour after the larva post. I think Koishis point would have more merit if yuuka was actively posting at the time?

Wrong direction. Look backwards, my concern is that they could have voted me a ton of times BEFORE the Larva post, when they were active and actively calling BS.

Like, specifically, during these series of psots:

The problem is that your scum takes don’t make sense. “Middle of the road at best” implies you’re scum reading/leaning me.

It just feels like you have a conclusion in mind and are trying to justify it than the other way around.

It'll be this evening.

I'm not going down the rabbit hole of arguing over my wording choice when:

A: I stand by it.
and
B: at the end of this wall project i'm going to be giving an in-specific-order reads list anyways.
and
C: I am stuck on my phone until after work.

1. Ew.
2. Irrelevant.
3. Got it.

I saw it, I just didn’t care because they were already in the zone of “looking for reasons to temper a read” they probably just linked to the wrong post.

I find their “I stand by it” when 4 players are saying it’s weird/bad/a mistake pretty strange. I guess it could either be a they went to google once and they learned that if you repeat something enough and hold a position consistently enough it can start to move people, they could be right after all, (they’re not, but you know) it’s just strange but possibly just unique to them as a person.
They could just be scum though.
Petit: Ah I see. Meta.

[Koishi Komeiji]

i know i just voted Koishi but i do not understand why everyone and their mother took issue with their characterization of Yuuka as "middle-of-the-road"?

what is so horrible about them drawing that conclusion?

I think that peoples issue was that if you read their point by point commentary, it seems like they say a lot more things that point to town, and then people are taking "middle of the pack at best" as a scum read, and people are struggling to reconcile the final conclusion to the supporting evidence.

But I dont think koishi was actually meaning a scum read when they wrote it, so :shrug:

For the record, I knew it was a null read, but the sides of the scale feel weird.

This.

There is a very clear and correct answer here that giving in detail is actively detrimental, but is exactly why I am not worried about this wagon going anywhere in the slightest. And even typing this out is dangerous but fuck it, we ball.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Really hoping some of our wallflower posters come back to participate in this in real time.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I don’t think it’s scummy to wait for things to develop more before placing a vote though? Like what makes town NOT feel more comfortable voting someone when one of their townreads (I’m pretty confident but not 100 this is the case) also scumreads someone?

I regret to inform you that I didn't say it was scummy, people are just inferring that I did. Data is sometimes just data, about a player's style or preferences that can inform other data down the line.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Uh Koishi what do you think about my lack of vote on you?

That you are more hesitant with your vote in general!

[Koishi Komeiji]

Other than that, there's not much really to say about it.

[Koishi Komeiji]

Other than that, there's not much really to say about it.

I was just sort of thinking that you have a lot of thoughts abt the timing of Yuuka's vote and the fact that it took a while for them to work up to it

True? But once again, I'm not saying it's a specifically alignment indicative piece of data, people are assuming that I am.

I'm literally noting ITT how folks behave with their votes.

If I thought that it was specifically scummy, I'd..

A: Say that
and
B: Vote them

[Koishi Komeiji]

Oh sorry, that's fair, but I was more wondering if you had any similar thought processes about me

Pedit maybe? It feels more right to me this way around. Either way it's weird and off, and I don't like that Koishi is blaming Ichrin for not having gone back to read, it's weirdly accusatory in an icky way

If it's icky to call out a player calling me their second largest scum read for a case/scenario they have been proven to not even have read, then I will wear that badge with pride.

[Koishi Komeiji]

If you turn out to be scum I’ll be elated and certainly want to hydra with you.

Fix'd

[Koishi Komeiji]

Koishi what’s your stance on the 1v1 happening? Unless I missed it somewhere

I've sprinkled hints of my thoughts but i prefer to let the dust settle and for maximum info to hit the thread before I wade in.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I do have a sinking feeling about how the thread was so passively coasting along doing its thing, until right after I said that I felt like the current thread direction was towards an Ichirin elim, and tenshi joined me on the wagon, and then there was a very sudden shift in thread tone and activity.

But I feel like I need to go back and read through todays posts to see who was doing what.

This sure did suck all the energy out of the thread again huh?

[Koishi Komeiji]

Oh dear.

What was this in reference to anyways, since you're here and can answer.

[Koishi Komeiji]

I think in general your rhetorical style (kind of, I will gladly bear the cross of my maverick thoughts!) and sort of conspiracy style connections and, “I can’t tell you about this important secret thought I have, it’s super important and liable to mess with the game state! In combination with the ego and I’m just pretty confused about how I’m supposed to understand if you’re town or scum.
Eliminatable? Yes. Not too difficult.
But interpretable? That one is pretty hard for me.

This is fair but it's not going to really make me change sorry!