Toriel's Patience (end)

[Taly]

I'm getting popular

I think

Dunn

is above rand town

[Taly]

No GIf rn because I feel like shit but anywsy

[Taly]

Nothing other than gut that could be wrong, mainly said it to get anything but mundane RVS going

[Taly]

Funny enough I would have voted Dunnstral if they were voteable so I'm curious why you have them as above rand town Taly.

Why?

[Taly]

Are you new

Keyleth?

[Taly]

Isis described this as an open setup in sign-ups. I do believe we are all vanilla except the double vote, and then we have the option to spare or fight.

It seems like if we choose to fight, this setup is pretty close to mountainous.

Why is mountainous attractive versus trying to townbloc?

[Taly]

I'm assuming the benefit of mercy is to townhunt.

I'm also somewhat incoherent atm

[Taly]

VOTE: taly

I want to know more about this tbh, I thought what I said was pretty mild

[Taly]

I don't see much point in discussing mercy or fight until D2.5, and that the preference for one off face value is NAI.

[Taly]

but also i do not know how useful discussing dunnstral's alignment is since he's getting flipped no matter what

He's the most important to discuss,

because

he's getting flipped no matter what.

Really? I thought the exact opposite!

Mind melding

[Taly]

VOTE: taly

I want to know more about this tbh, I thought what I said was pretty mild

saying you town lean toriel just seems like the safest possible thing you could say that can also be classified as game talk

and that is regardless of dunnstral's alignment

do you have thoughts on anyone else so far

Keyleth and Mandate passed the vibe check

Also whats safe here? I don't get how what I said is protective on a game that just began. Much less effective to try and pocket Dunn, hypothetically.

[Taly]

Dunn

have any impressions on people rn?

[Taly]

When did I give solid townreads? I'm getting a feel of the playerlist doll

[Taly]

also i don't super get your intense focus on sorting / interacting with dunnstral off the bat over everyone else

Who are you talking about? Because it's not me.

[Taly]

Also whats safe here? I don't get how what I said is protective on a game that just began. Much less effective to try and pocket Dunn, hypothetically.

eh i just think toriel's alignment isn't the most interesting topic of discussion and i thought starting out focusing on his slot was going to be more likely to come from scum

Didn't what I say lead to conversation with other slots rn? That was the point, I don't really care much about

Dunn

other than the fact that they're a slot I'm familiar with and I am confident in reading them in time, it's not about their role.

I'm more curious about why you think

Keyleth

is likely scum here, and I find that you're making scumreads quite quickly which is of note.

[Taly]

*sigh* This is going to exhaust me isn't it

[Taly]

Not a good thing for my WIM.

[Taly]

Why not?

[Taly]

taly you have 2 votes on you

Not directly what I'm talking about

[Taly]

[Taly]

nah not feeling anyone atm, probably will revisit

[Taly]

Okay so you think that the pool of active players is town heavy basically

i have a different mechanism of operation but yes, which im wondering if i should rectify

its mainly just us 4 tbh

[Taly]

i see what you mean

dann

but im ignoring tone atm for ~reasons~

plus im a it misted from their 89 but oh well, and i think their "everyone is a townread at first" can have multiple interpretations i have not concluded on

also i bold names because it is higher when everybody knows im talking about them

ill shit talk to your face not behind your back

<3

what do you note about me making scum reads quickly, taly

playstle difference and less likely scum because its unusual for that level of aggression to be seen early from scum.

[Taly]

I think Brown Eyes and Dannflor are both town.

I'm mulling over the possibility of you and Keyleth being scum partners because there's some kinda strange associatives between the two of you but I think that Keyleth is not going to fold under pressure so I'm not really interested in voting there.

well, i prepared us to wait for the folding under pressure part im expected to fall prey to:

[Taly]

why

Brown Eyes

,

Mandate

?

[Taly]

the only thing i found of note with

Brown Eyes

is 44 and that was due to the counter of focusing on a slot that is meant to be flipped soon, which i liked.

[Taly]

how do you feel about

mandate

,

dann

?

[Taly]

So here's my question Taly

Why do you care about Dannflor's read on me?

I wanted to see if they shared any known perceptions or had their own take, specifically because I see you two focus on Keyleth or I, and I saw a parallel.

[Taly]

Do you think it's a normal question when you have two townreads who are generally doing the same thing to ask them what their reads on each other are? Do you think I shouldn't be a little skeptical of that line of questioning, Taly?

yeah i think its incredibly normal to question 2 of my townreads on their read on each other, i do that every fucking game.

but also i do not know how useful discussing dunnstral's alignment is since he's getting flipped no matter what

He's the most important to discuss,

because

he's getting flipped no matter what.

Really? I thought the exact opposite!

Mind melding

Why?

One of the things that gives the most info is a flip and seeing how people interacted with a now confirmed town or scum slot.

i agree but we cant act on this immediately D1

I think there is an extreme low chance that I want to Lim anyone outside of Taly / Keyleth today, there's too much going on that says they're partners

I'm getting popular

I think

Dunn

is above rand town

Is this a joke because there are only three wolves? I think I get it!

Being popular must be nice totally not at all jealous.

Are you new

Keyleth?

Are you new

Keyleth?

Do you always bold usernames? It brings attention to the eyes but is also slightly intimidating.

I'm not new to mafia, no! Why do I give off that impression? I've played video mafia and forum mafia before although I saw undertale theme and was like 'omg I have to join this.'

but also i do not know how useful discussing dunnstral's alignment is since he's getting flipped no matter what

He's the most important to discuss,

because

he's getting flipped no matter what.

Really? I thought the exact opposite!

Mind melding

VOTE: taly

I want to know more about this tbh, I thought what I said was pretty mild

saying you town lean toriel just seems like the safest possible thing you could say that can also be classified as game talk

and that is regardless of dunnstral's alignment

do you have thoughts on anyone else so far

Keyleth and Mandate passed the vibe check

Also whats safe here? I don't get how what I said is protective on a game that just began. Much less effective to try and pocket Dunn, hypothetically.

I mean I've sat here looking at this on and off for the last couple hours and I really do think this is just two scum, the way the two of them force an engagement with each other over everything else in thread at this point, the difference in tone from the surrounding commentary on actually game related materials, and the follow up behaviour. It's also worth pointing out that Keyleth in this game uses emojis exactly twice and they are both in these responses to Taly which helps to make that exchange stand out even more from everything else that the two of them have done this game.

It definitely helps that this is the kind of setup where I fully expect scum to be going full on buddying each other trying to make a pseudo townbloc and that perception of how scum would play the game meshes with both their forced interactions into mutual townread into Taly's fascination with what exactly the read dynamics are between me/Dannflor/Brown Eyes when I don't really think any of that is what he should be thinking about as a town player.

respectfully, give me a break.

[Taly]

to find associatives in the first 5 pages immediately is asinine in most cases, and i dont understand where you're getting your assertions

mandate

, its almost entirely a grief with my playstyle.

[Taly]

Hmm

This game has started off pretty seriously

I think I've an idea of who Mandate may be but I could easily be wrong I guess, I'll try to not let that assumption cloud my judgement

i kno right? i want to just meme

[Taly]

hehe guess what im eating



my health has been a nightmare (physically and mentally) lately, so i gotta treat myself

i turn 25 this Saturday

[Taly]

OH MY GOD THATS A HUGE FUCKING PIC

[Taly]

that pic is bigger than my pizza wtf

[Taly]

to find associatives in the first 5 pages immediately is asinine in most cases, and i dont understand where you're getting your assertions

mandate

,

its almost entirely a grief with my playstyle.

bruh dont come for me im a toucan

[Taly]

some of us are endangered species

[Taly]

no? i dont know what you mean by "grief" either? im meaning hes giving me grief.

[Taly]

i turn 25 this Saturday

Oh! Congrats Taly~

I hope whatever you've planned for that day goes well! (even if you don't have anything planned?!)

finally some decency

thank you

lady shirou

i might have been pocketed

[Taly]

like if mandate is mafia and you're town then this wouldn't be a grief it would just be hyper aggression lining up lims and seizing thread control - your lack of any suspicion of this push is kind of ?? to me.

im not without lack actually

i was gonna vote if they didnt drop it

it does seem bad faith me but ive suspended my belief as much as my lost sanity these past few weeks of med changes

[Taly]

OH I SEE WHAT YOU MEAN

yeah, and i do think

mandate

might be in bad faith but i have counter thoughts

[Taly]

i dont get it tbh, can you explain your vote?

[Taly]

i dont care about your alt so youre fine

[Taly]

what is your read on Keyleth

i thought them giving me the benefit of the doubt was natural because they framed it in a way i havent seen sscum do it.

usually its an overconfident projected read, but they just liked how i responded and that is consistent with their follow-up on it.

so it gave me townpings

[Taly]

i dont get it tbh, can you explain your vote?

I found keyleth's reaction to being pushed by mandate to be overly accommodative and I think she'd push back more or engage more if she were town.

I want to add pressure to see if something cool will happen.

I think there are some instances in her posting which feel performative in a forced way.

you seem to know about this slot, what behavior here differs from your knowledge?

[Taly]

oh i see

like me? cause i want to close this thread atm and need help to not

[Taly]

I can assure you that you are not going to correctly alt guess me, so I'd recommend finding some other more productive way to read my slot if that's what you're interested in.

i dont know if youre evading me or not here tbh, this isnt about why i am frustrated with your approach

[Taly]

me trying to wave back at

[insert anime scummer here ]

[Taly]

Taly can you share some of that confidence?

how do you feel about the wagon on you?

[Taly]

im not in big brain mood but if

key

is town then the slots with heat on them are town

VOTE: Mandate

having my vote nowhere feels like a detriment at the moment and i want to hear them reply to my recent posting

[Taly]

I AM NOT A FUCKING COSPLAYER CHARACTER

[Taly]

does your arm hurt from reaching across the world? can you pat yourself on the back man?

[Taly]

I DONT DO EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL EITHER

[Taly]

what the fuck

[Taly]

I am not elastigirl.

[Taly]

My response is that you and Keyleth are still playing this exactly like I'd expect cospies to play this and nothing you do gives me a reason to reevaluate that. I should really check and see if you do this emotional blackmail play as scum because I have some hesitation on that but I'm not really in the mood to reread old games right now.

It you want me to reevaluate your slot the best way to go about doing that is finding scum, but you instead decided to vote me who all of your tone and posting suggests that you don't scumread, so...

lsat portion is untrue, i cant tell if youre actually sorting me atp because of how off base the ideas are

can you give me a reason to think not?

pedit

you arent ruining the game for me, for what its worth, im just, kind of shocked by the way youre approaching this

apologies that im burening you with that, its not meant to be AtE

[Taly]

disengaging is probably a good idea atp hmmm

i need to do irl stuff

[Taly]

VLA until the 5th

[Taly]

UNVOTE:

i like

mandate

so this vote is pointless

im also incredibly fucked up from side effects on a medication and i might be getting actually sick

so i dont have the capacity to think through the lsat few pages well

[Taly]

yeah i dont do AtE @Shirou

all my emotional responses are pure and without a plan, plus im sorry to

mandate

as what i was doing couldve been seen as unfair

[Taly]

15 pages and its still

key/me

? somethings wrong here

[Taly]

i like

shirou

for townpings because i tihnk their takes are a bit individualistic for this thread

[Taly]

dann

feels like you fell off a bit in activity

[Taly]

ari's

scumread is fun to hear, i thought she was the only one working with me given that i function largely off 1-on-1 convos and questions and real-time interactions

i dont have the spoons for ISOs or deep dives rn

[Taly]

when im LHF i guess i townhunt nowadays

[Taly]

Then, did you misunderstand what my point was or do you still think it's an "unsubstantial" read?

Misunderstood your point, I think engaging in theoretical discussion that doesn't amount to much and revolves around general ideas on the game rather than things specific to what's currently going on is scummy, both for myself and for others, so it's fair

only thing ive read from

meuh

and its a +1

[Taly]

At some point before d2.5 or during the beginning of it I'll do the EV for each option if no one else has. It looks like the design thread doesn't have it for this version of the setup.

Gut from pages 1-4 is Dann town (though I think I remember seeing that's someone consensus?), Mandate town, Taly scummy e.g. don't really like the "is of note" at the end of 76. Noncommittal, throwing shade without actually saying that he scumreads a slot that's been doing a bunch of stuff. I thought Mandate's opening was slightly +town even from someone who is clearly gimmicking and I like the timing of the Taly vote on page 4 quite a lot. Dann is townish just for voting like 8 times in 4 pages.

I'm pretty much with Mandate until 140 which is a Bad Post. I mean it's easily Mandate lying to themself as town but the Bayesian argument against hard partner tells on page 6 is a pet peeve of mine. The sheer odds that you're right about a "x and y are partnered" read is so low (less than 4%) as to, in principle, require a huge amount of evidence to surmount. I also don't really have a read on Keyleth at this point fwiw

149 is actually an interesting post and probably true of me bc I probably would have explained things in the scum PT at some point, alas. Probably +town (maybe strongly) for Brown Eyes to point out an observation like that, it's an observation that could easily just never be made by anyone. Dunn calling Brown Eyes town shortly after this is slightly good for Dunn (who I don't really have much of a read on at this point).

167 by Mandate is also a bad post IMO (they're still town), I think making a strong assumption that scum would townbloc in this setup is sort of unfounded. Plus scum would have to actually be in the thread to do that and it's always possible that scum just hadn't entered the thread yet at that point

Through page 7 so far and I guess I'm hitting submit on what I have so far

keep it up, it gets my rusty ass wheels turning

[Taly]

Dunn

is actually town, nothing like I've seen from them typically as scum from this page alone

[Taly]

i should probably read

key

a fraction as critically as everyone else here but that feels like id be swept into the same tunnel vision, plsu its not so interesting

[Taly]

curious as to why you think so

[Taly]

dunn

is giving nuanced and specific thought

[Taly]

something i dont see from a lot of yall

[Taly]

hmmmm, i think i like 476

[Taly]

alisae

, how are you reading

ari

atm? i know you have a big brain way to do it methinks

[Taly]

dunn

is giving nuanced and specific thought

can you please quote the post(s) and explain what about it is specifically different from what you've seen from scum!Dunn?

most of his ISO

no jumps to conclusions, just a consistent and coherent progression of thought that isnt overexplaining or going into pointless divets of conversation.

[Taly]

alisae

, how are you reading

ari

atm? i know you have a big brain way to do it methinks

beeboy

, how are you reading

alisae

? i know you have as big brain way to do it methinks

[Taly]

pocketed, game over, start the sparing

[Taly]

meuh

am i misled on

mandate/key

being towny?

[Taly]

[Taly]

fuck hes afraid of pandas, nice going

taly

[Taly]

kinda town read taly's absolute refusal to give me what i want regarding her dunstral read

its not a refusal, its just me giving my most honest answer to it, i can dig quotes but it isnt really going to change what i have to say or dress it with better worded rationale

[Taly]

how od you feel about

implosion's

read through so far?

im mostly skimming it tbh

[Taly]

thought so too but im wondering if im going to end up with too many "you look town" hmmmm.

which isnt a thought specific to

implosion

[Taly]

also

townhunt-town!Taly and scumhunt-town!Taly are two different Taly's

no literally, i can clone myself, toucans do that IN NATURE

[Taly]

who qualifies as a lurker in a game thats gone on for maybe 3 days or less?

[Taly]

Going to throw out some wild reads. Brown Eyes, Meuh, Mandate, Taly, Keyleth, Merlyn are townies.

i want to sheep but idk who

merlyn

and is my brain has nothing in it when i think of

brown eyes

[Taly]

fair

also heres an indie song ill never get out of my head

[Taly]

Ari u tell me if Beeboy is town when he posts we will invite him into our kingdom

can i join

[Taly]

alisae

im not the townbloc you wanted or purchased but im that dollar store brand you got off that scam from amazon, so think VERY CAREFULLY about this answer

[Taly]

who qualifies as a lurker in a game thats gone on for maybe 3 days or less?

my friend, it has been about 28 hours lol

yo my perception of time is GONE lol

its 4 PM, i thought it was like, 2:30 PM.

[Taly]

alisae

has a tendency to shelf me, ey've seen how dangerous i am as scum (cause we hydra'd a couple years ago) when i can be bothered

im trying to discern eir mentality towards me in this game to see if that is AI

[Taly]

alisae

also just loves me <3 we're the bestest of friends, watch:

Who are you sparing first Ali?

ur mum

Who are you sparing first

Alisae

?

[Taly]

I don’t really think Meuh has done anything special in all honesty.

this intrigues me, you want to elaborate?

[Taly]

i dont understand your perspective of me

mandate

[Taly]

oh same, maybe we're too similar

[Taly]

this is a pretty competent playerlist

i dont know about

beeboy

just yet, where are you on that

sakura

?

also you are different vibes from that

RC

game where everyone trolled the shit out of me and you won as scum, so thats a good sign.

[Taly]

<snip> idk who

merlyn

and is my brain has nothing in it when i think of

brown eyes

I actually have a hard time keeping track of 13 other players at the same time, this is mostly a problem in larges, but this one is at least the samallest large size.
But idk if it's a side-effect of it or not, but i feel like Brown eyes has been mentioned a few times and i cant even remember that they are a player in this game nor what they have done.

mindmeld

You do know that I am not

Shinybrassobject

and the only person who thinks that I am never played with them, right?

idk *shrugs* idk who shinybrassobject is

[Taly]

this is a pretty competent playerlist

i dont know about

beeboy

just yet, where are you on that

sakura

?

also you are different vibes from that

RC

game where everyone trolled the shit out of me and you won as scum, so thats a good sign.

When i read his catchup sounds like he more or less arrived at the same reads as me except for Dann and Dunn. Dann was the opposite of my read, and I dont really have a read on Dunn as of right now.

I feel like

Dunn

is town because scum!

Dunn

is a lot more close to their chest with very simple thoughts and ideas and do not provide wishy-washy ideas or ones without some form of calculation.

Dann

, I like their posts, but I don't know if I'm reading them well. I can think of alternative perspectives even though I don't take issue with them at face value.

Ari u tell me if Beeboy is town when he posts we will invite him into our kingdom

can i join

Where did this come from?

trying to read

aliase

, i explained on this page

[Taly]

or, last page...

[Taly]

Sakura

, how did you conclude that

Mandate/I

are TvT? I may have missed it

[Taly]

oh what a refreshingly accurate take on my motives

cookies for you

[Taly]

[Taly]

Sakura-Dunn-Mandate

good slots

[Taly]

time for my 3rd nap of the day... sigh, abilify why did my psychiatrist want me to take you

[Taly]

thats ironic considering you're in it

[Taly]

oh i townread

key

but i dont think ive given much attention there, ive just liked some of their posts as they came out

dann

is interesting, i used to think i knew how to read them but i dont

no i dont follow trs on

brown eyes

atm but i havent really paid attention to that slot.

[Taly]

mandate

is an extension of my will and what I would be if I weren't memeing and mentally compromised

[Taly]

ari

how you feel about me doubling in content?

[Taly]

That feels flippant

[Taly]

Not really

[Taly]

ari

how you feel about me doubling in content?

kind of feel that you're still scummy,

the mandate read flip feels questionable.

if you're town I'll probably figure it out by the end of the day. no promises tho

also this is not an accurate characterization of my POV of

mandate

i honestly voted them more out of frustration than a legit scumread, i even said that i had the people in the first few pages during this time as town-leaning

and you can say that i am conveniently backpedaling or being disingenuous, but that doesnt make this post jive any less peculiar to me.

[Taly]

is today a normal lim day?

[Taly]

which townreads are you least confident in,

dunn

?

[Taly]

i should proabbly be scumhunting and not townhunting but i dont want to bother 1v1ing

ari

which townreads are you least confident in,

dunn

?

Keyleth, Shirou, and Merlyn

feels on why?

[Taly]

you about to do a part 3 or somethin

implosion

?

[Taly]

ah i see then

any questions for me

dunn

?

[Taly]

no part 3 then? :O

[Taly]

Strong Town: Sakura, Mandate, Dunn
Lean Town: Merlyn, implosion, Keyleth

evryone else is a work in progress or i actively dont want to share on a read on them rn

[Taly]

im curious about your strong townreads aside from

shirou

,

dunn

namely i need to spend time on

brown eyes/meuh

i feel

[Taly]

i should proabbly be scumhunting and not townhunting but i dont want to bother 1v1ing ari

i dont really understand this

what does scumhunting have to do with 1v1ing me?

because i suspect you but dont think itd be helpful for me to sort you by confronting you about it

[Taly]

because i suspect you but dont think itd be helpful for me to sort you by confronting you about it

ok but if you think I'm mafia why aren't you voting me?

this, you have a black and white way of framing people's thoughts that does not apply to me.

[Taly]

dann

and

mandate

had a similar issue with me.

[Taly]

because i suspect you but dont think itd be helpful for me to sort you by confronting you about it

ok but if you think I'm mafia why aren't you voting me?

this, you have a black and white way of framing people's thoughts that does not apply to me.

I'm trying to understand your decision making process - that's why I'm asking you.

because im unsure if you are namely because i have mostly townreads that could be wrong given more thought and content to them, so i cant confidently press a scumread with a vote since theres other ways to sort you more thoroughly, kind of like through this convo that isnt just me saying

"your post is weird, *votes*, you're scum"

gets a completely different response from you than this, that i dont know if it helps me clarify my thoughts.

[Taly]

i am curious though

dunn

, this isnt too necessary but why do you feel strongly on me being town?

i find it interesting i got a lot of townreads after i left the thread because the consensus was that i was aligned with

Key

before i did

[Taly]

There's an argument that if we're going the spare game route then it can be valuable to keep at least *some* reads close to our chests, or probably more importantly that once we start sparing, we all collectively frequently re-evaluate. I say this because one framing (I think Mandate was implying this framing earlier) is that we can think of the spare game as all collectively making a town->scum ordering and just sparing the top townie in that ordering every day. But if we make that list public then scum killing the top of that list is more impactful than it is in a normal game, because every time they kill someone, we can no longer spare that person.

i like the way you think

[Taly]

I have to wonder if you would bother with the calculations if you're mafia.

i am curious though

dunn

, this isnt too necessary but why do you feel strongly on me being town?

i find it interesting i got a lot of townreads after i left the thread because the consensus was that i was aligned with

Key

before i did

Well I never thought you were aligned with Keyleth and I like to form my opinions. I think you are an emotional player as town and your posting some time after the start of the game made me think you were much more likely to be town than mafia.

ok this passed the "am i being white-knighted" vibe check, not that i was really paranoid, but this is a thing i have to do in games where i become close to a near UTR

[Taly]

implo

i get the impression you're distancing from a stance on me, is that correct?

[Taly]

only people i have reservations on in your pool are

meuh/shirou

[Taly]

only people i have reservations on in your pool are

meuh/shirou

OK. I've explained my own reasoning and I get that it's not going to be convincing for everybody.

i mainly just mindmelded with

merlyn

on their take on

shirou's

tone and havent had a lot of real-time interaction with

meuh

to assess the nature of their confidence.

its not a big

"you're misled

dunn

"

if that eases you

[Taly]

[Taly]

sakura is probably the easiest player in the playerlist to read and she's p townie so far

Am i that easy to read?

I bet Taly would disagree lol

I STILL FEEL LIKE I GOT PUNKED THAT GAME

[Taly]

I guess I don't really want to explain why I'm scumreading Taly atp because explaining the read takes away the room for Taly to improve because she would then understand my thought process about what I expect town!taly to be doing.

It's like less than 2 days into the game so I'm fine letting Taly do Taly things.

this supposes a level of thought i didnt expect about my slot that i find interesting and am inclined to shelf it.

[Taly]

i should start ISOs

[Taly]

to be clear I'm not *really* town leaning Meuh but I guess I got vague town vibes from that post

this strikes me as odd given that in an ISO, all of the posts from both of you until this point had seemed like fluff to me.

[Taly]

meuh

do you actually have reads? i see a lot of explaining on your end that im not getting any defintiive stance from

[Taly]

VOTE: Lady Shirou

wagon may be the quickest way to dispel this "everyone is town" gamestate

i agree that

shirou's

posting has an artificial tone to it and i think the eye glazing

implosion

mentioned eludes to a lack of clear stances.

i also have a similar argument toward

meuh

[Taly]

i meant distinct thought,

meuh

to be clear I'm not *really* town leaning Meuh but I guess I got vague town vibes from that post

this strikes me as odd given that in an ISO, all of the posts from both of you until this point had seemed like fluff to me.

Should I be unfriendly to someone just because I don't town lean them?

no, i just dont think the read is committal in a way i want to probe further because i didnt find a reason to townread

meuh

atp from the ISO I just skimmed

[Taly]

I should really be resting soon but the premise of my thinking right now is that scum does not have substance but appears to have something that makes logical sense.

pedit

i meant distinct thought,

meuh

to be clear I'm not *really* town leaning Meuh but I guess I got vague town vibes from that post

this strikes me as odd given that in an ISO, all of the posts from both of you until this point had seemed like fluff to me.

Should I be unfriendly to someone just because I don't town lean them?

no, i just dont think the read is committal in a way i want to probe further because i didnt find a reason to townread

meuh

atp from the ISO I just skimmed

if you ISO'd me you would find that I explicitly pointed out the post I liked about Meuh shortly before that post you quoted

can you revise it? ill review it again

[Taly]

This doesn't help Sakura as a wolf though, does it?

what doesn't

If you're a wolf you want to be townread so you go over or push some wrong villagers but Sakura is just, doing neither? Unless that's the point to get townread but that's wifom ya know?

This feels kind of reductive? Wolves post to have thread presence, to be engaged in the game, to have fun... pushing agenda is nice but not every single wolf post is anchored on that and not every wolf post has deep and complex connotations. Wolves absolutely just post random thoughts to look more engaged, which tend to make you look more townie (or at the very least less appealing to lim), and nothing in Sakura's posting indicates that she isn't

trying

to be townread. Wraps around to the classic "if I'm a wolf, how come I'm not being townread?" argument, as if getting townread is this guaranteed thing to gain with certain posts rather than something that wolves fail at a bunch.

At the dead of the night, Shirou is met with lovecrafitian existential HORROR as a dangerous thought floods inside his head once again:

if shirou was town this one liner would be at least a twenty page phd thesis on meuhs tendency to use a nonlinear thought pattern to fake thought about the game in order to craft a narrative around her trajectory.

to be clear I'm not *really* town leaning Meuh but I guess I got vague town vibes from that post

no i genuinely still dont follow which post you meant, and tbh, i feel like

meuh

was pure shitposting around this point

also

ari

made me audibly laugh on these past two pages

[Taly]

VOTE: Meuh

[Taly]

sakura

, how do you read

meuh

rn?

[Taly]

really? i think

meuh's

a good place to wagon. i dont remember what they say after i read their posts

what makes you want to reconsider

shirou

?

[Taly]

read my last 10 posts and return to me if you think my reasoning for voting

meuh

is lacking

[Taly]

ari

has this weird fucking knack of kicking my ass into gear but okay

pedit

read my last 10 posts and return to me if you think my reasoning for voting

meuh

is lacking

I think the reasoning to vote for Meuh is very weak.

do you have an alternative? because i want to sort that slot and want to continue this vote until im confident that theyre a town or scum

[Taly]

i wouldnt worry too much about it

mandate

at least not in this moment

that fear is somewhat dependent on town actually having a coherent wagon against scum.

ari has this weird fucking knack of kicking my ass into gear but okay

I apologize for making you work hard while I just slack off and sip on champagne I can't help it.

[Taly]

ari

has this weird fucking knack of kicking my ass into gear but okay

pedit

read my last 10 posts and return to me if you think my reasoning for voting

meuh

is lacking

I think the reasoning to vote for Meuh is very weak.

do you have an alternative? because i want to sort that slot and want to continue this vote until im confident that theyre a town or scum

I've given my alternatives in my reads

I proposed Aristeia, beeboy, or Dannflor.

Not

Ari

Could go

Dann

I haven't thought enough about

beeboy

what makes you want to reconsider

shirou

?

This made me feel a bit less confident about her:

I also wonder what made you think Dunn is town though?

Him townreading me

That almost feels too honest to be scum!

-gif snipped-

I still think she's an okay vote but the "case"/"evidence" is pretty whatever atm

i dont get your read on her even now, but i agree that her tone in this quote feels unnatural on first glance

[Taly]

do you have a reason for your

dann/ari/beeboy

scumreads that are not PoE

dunn

?

[Taly]

my read is basically i havent found substance from

meuh

after taking an extra look and i want more reads and non-mech theory from her.

[Taly]

what do you hope to gain from a wagon on her

shirou

?

[Taly]

I know this sounds counterintuitive and this applies to most of the playerlist, but I find it suspicious that there is a lack of scumreads, much less ones that arent consensus.

[Taly]

do you have a reason for your

dann/ari/beeboy

scumreads that are not PoE

dunn

?

620 for beeboy

Aristeia is having trouble figuring out what to say for reads even when prodded. Am willing to give them time though.

The majority of Dannflor's iso is pushing Keyleth and reevaluating Keyleth. They've garnerd a few townreads but I have to assume they are easily within a range where they could be mafia and making these posts. I am not townreading them after a lot of posts which is something at least.

i have a different perception on

ari

and i dont think she is struggling to know what to say about her reads. and if she was scum, it would not be this that she is doing.

ill need to read

beeboy

myself to see if it aligns with my thoughts

can agree on

dann

implo

i get the impression you're distancing from a stance on me, is that correct?

Not actively but I definitely don't feel especially confident on my read of you. I am still inclined to call you scum bc I don't really buy the reasons I've seen for you as town as much as the bulk of the field and I think there are some reasons to see you as scummy but it's a read with no real confidence whatsoever.

maybe you should find another way to read me then, unless you want to place teeth by that read and wagon me?

[Taly]

ari has this weird fucking knack of kicking my ass into gear but okay

I apologize for making you work hard while I just slack off and sip on champagne I can't help it.

i get why

alisae

favors you from how e works but it has taken me some massive logic leaps in a short span of time to realize this.

but im curious, how do you read

alisae

? and by extension,

beeboy

?

[Taly]

I know this sounds counterintuitive and this applies to most of the playerlist, but I find it suspicious that there is a lack of scumreads, much less ones that arent consensus.

Mood

I didn't want point that out before though because I was being kinda distrusted and didn't want to be seem as attempting to "break the townblock" or something but it all feels rather shaky to me

Townreads are being given left and right here with relative ease

/shrug

I feel like its important you should have said this when you thought it and I'm wondering if being distrusted is a sufficient reason to have not done it.

[Taly]

ari has this weird fucking knack of kicking my ass into gear but okay

I apologize for making you work hard while I just slack off and sip on champagne I can't help it.

but im curious, how do you read

alisae

?

Taly, Alisae has barely posted.

they clearly have some sort of knowledge about the others playstyle and mindset for whatever reason

I should really be resting soon but the premise of my thinking right now is that scum does not have substance but appears to have something that makes logical sense.

I like this post along with the scumread on me, kind of feels like Taly has a vague idea of the place or the way in which scum are playing and is trying to fit someone into it as a puzzle piece, which is how I tend to approach things a lot of the time. (I talk a lot about things "clicking", for me my reasoning for a scumread is often more just that it fits into place rather than some intense feeling on that specific player)

why not feel inflated by the fact that im wrong on you?

where should my vote be?

where should

shirou's

vote be?

[Taly]

doesnt sound like you have strong belief in your alignment,

meuh

[Taly]

has any of

meuh's

recent posting caught your attention

dunn

?

[Taly]

How about this then. Taly is trying to get people to explain their stances and pushing people then changing their mind and voting elsewhere. Do you see this as scum controlling the thread vs town trying to sort things out?

I kind of view it as someone just enjoying the process of playing mafia either way

explain the mandate tr plz

wasn't to me but mandate is extremely town in my eyes.

They have all the right stances at all the right times. The way they're thinking about the game feels right, I liked their opening, I liked the evolution of their taly+keyleth team read, I like the evolution of their stances in general, like, the townread on sakura a page or two ago is good for example

you are correct that i am enjoying this, but thats not necessarily NAI, is it?

[Taly]

yall think im doing this for control?

LMAO

yall think any of my posting yesterday is someone who wants thread control?

[Taly]

has any of

meuh's

recent posting caught your attention

dunn

?

I'm reading it. I think they are town.

can you explain why?

[Taly]

yall think im doing this for control?

LMAO

yall think any of my posting yesterday is someone who wants thread control?

I don't think you're consciously seizing control

It's just that there's a vacuum of a "leader" at the moment and you were filling it

don't mind me, I think your pressure on Meuh was good and what I may have done if I wasn't being "LAZY Shirou"

i think your posts the past 2 pages are a bit passive, what is a concrete thought or read on this exchange?

you are correct that i am enjoying this, but thats not necessarily NAI, is it?

there's a reason i asked ari how meta based her read is.

idk if

ari

is an alt of someone i know, but i do not recall any completed games with her if that enhances your perception.

[Taly]

has any of

meuh's

recent posting caught your attention

dunn

?

I'm reading it. I think they are town.

can you explain why?

I think they are giving their opinions as best they can, and I can follow their thought process. They have a believable view of the game and I think they would have tried to be "smarter" about their read on me if they were mafia.

Any of this a meta take? Curious

[Taly]

VOTE: Dannflor

I want to see where this goes, because I want to know if

Dann's

aggression <---> step back approach is scum-motivated satisfied with the current thread's hapless direction.

I'm still suspicious of

Meuh/Shirou

but I want to work with

Dunn

here and I got about as much as I can from them atm

[Taly]

yall think im doing this for control?

LMAO

yall think any of my posting yesterday is someone who wants thread control?

I don't think you're consciously seizing control

It's just that there's a vacuum of a "leader" at the moment and you were filling it

don't mind me, I think your pressure on Meuh was good and what I may have done if I wasn't being "LAZY Shirou"

i think your posts the past 2 pages are a bit passive, what is a concrete thought or read on this exchange?

How am I not being concrete when I say I think you're leaning to your town meta atm?

just that very wording, "town leaning", "i think", "i dislike this but"

[Taly]

ive voted 3 people in the lsat hr, i might log off soon

[Taly]

im sorry that it bothered you, im just making an observation, it doesnt have to be reflective of you inherently

[Taly]

lets switch gears.

shirou

, you dont seem too confident in

meuh

read, but what about

dann

?

[Taly]

ok ok, im sorry

[Taly]

well, thank you for cooperating with me

shirou

this has helped me get a handle on the game

pedit

not really, its not silly

[Taly]

no, not at all, honestly

[Taly]

im serious, i gave you heat and tons of questions when you told me you didnt feel confident, and you still replied

[Taly]

i dont play with peoples feelings

[Taly]

haha dont worry about me i take mafia really lightly despite how serious my investigation can seem

didnt mean to pry into you, i just wanted to be sure if my suspicions were founded, and i feel your reply to me is natural here which is a good sign.

[Taly]

nah, i just never shut the fuck up

anyway sleepy, goodnight all

[Taly]

dan

you dont seem interested in your wagon?

[Taly]

also i am having insane sleep hallucinations, this psych appointment cannot come faster

[Taly]

(I love the flavor

Isis

)

[Taly]

Man, I actually move a thread o_O this is wild ngl

[Taly]

I am kind of shocked people are town reading everyone, I guess I am half as active and 10 pages behind so I don't have a lot of the live conversations other people have to form reads but that is really just not the vibe I am getting.

Also Mandate why not just vote me if you want to? It's a costless resource to vote me hesitating seems weird in all honesty.

This is feeling overstated atp. How do you feel about the push I made on

Meuh

?

[Taly]

mandate

should this level of anxiety be expected from you?

[Taly]

ari

do I get headpats or something

[Taly]

aristeia are you holding back this game for any particular reason

Like there's 5 other things I'd expect you to be more concerned with

[Taly]

ARI

DO I KNOW YOU AS SOMEONE ELSE

[Taly]

Merlyn

feels too genuine to be scum

[Taly]

Dunn-Sakura
Mandate-Ari-Shirou-implosion-Keyleth-Merlyn

[Taly]

Now isn't the time to second guess but I can't say this is a gold star readslist

[Taly]

ISOs need to be in [Meuh/Alisae/Beeboy/Dannflor/Brown Eyes]

[Taly]

Spoiler: ISO on ali/bee/brown eyes/dann/meuh

VOTE: taly

VOTE: Taly

I claim miller.

I'm popular with this group

VOTE:

Beeboy

Isis described this as an open setup in sign-ups. I do believe we are all vanilla except the double vote, and then we have the option to spare or fight.

It seems like if we choose to fight, this setup is pretty close to mountainous.

It'd be mountainous with three nights skipped—which isn't insignificant—but it does seem as though mercy is the easier option overall (obviously depending on you and your alignment).

I do like the focus closer to mercy, tbh.

VOTE: meuh

I really want

Dann

to explain this vote in retrospect, because it would genuinely help me sort them.

I'm getting popular

I think

Dunn

is above rand town

why

i thought the "taking everything at extreme face value" thing was slightly more likely to come from someone with the serious moral defect of rolling scum

but also i do not know how useful discussing dunnstral's alignment is since he's getting flipped no matter what

VOTE: taly

ngl i didnt like these posts, the level of suspicion did not match my statement

but also i do not know how useful discussing dunnstral's alignment is since he's getting flipped no matter what

He's the most important to discuss,

because

he's getting flipped no matter what.

I like the counter idea here

also i don't super get your intense focus on sorting / interacting with dunnstral off the bat over everyone else

this characterization was also inaccurate as i explained after this

i thought it odd meuh didn't join in on the memeing but not the scummiest slot in the game

another thing that makes me head tilt to

dann

because i dont know the context for their

meuh

read but they are already supposing a hierarchy of scumreads. is this a playstyle issue i have?

I'm more curious about why you think Keyleth is likely scum here, and I find that you're making scumreads quite quickly which is of note.

her tone feels a little performative in terms of expressing excitement but nervousness over and over again but i just realized while writing this that that might be an attempt to roleplay as the character keyleth

the main thing is the focus on posting and asking questions about things related to the setup or things that aren't related to anyone's alignment at all

clarifying a joke in 39

asking why you bold usernames in 47

setup talk in 52 and 63

71 feels like a question for a sake of question and not an attempt to sort me especially given there was no follow up thoughts about my alignment after i answered

i would just expect a town entrance to include something about someone's alignment before 89

keyleth is posting a lot but that hasn't really translated into approaching the game in a towny way

pretty detailed scumread for something so early

brown eyes just having some enthusiasm to start playing the game is +town

can that not be said for other people at this time?

I think that mandate is likely not scum with anyone who has misunderstood the setup (Dunn, Dann, Key, Merlyn). This is also slightly likely for implosion, Alisae, and potentially Shirou.

this is the most interesting to me about

Brown Eyes

because they have an assumption that i think is likely correct that leads to something of an alignment indicative behavior, and then applies it to multiple people. i kind of want to pick their brain when they catch up

guys i have a great idea what if we build a town block

What if we build a scum block

um

how many pages is enough to start looking for scum

+1 actually

This doesn't help Sakura as a wolf though, does it?

what doesn't

If you're a wolf you want to be townread so you go over or push some wrong villagers but Sakura is just, doing neither? Unless that's the point to get townread but that's wifom ya know?

This feels kind of reductive? Wolves post to have thread presence, to be engaged in the game, to have fun... pushing agenda is nice but not every single wolf post is anchored on that and not every wolf post has deep and complex connotations. Wolves absolutely just post random thoughts to look more engaged, which tend to make you look more townie (or at the very least less appealing to lim), and nothing in Sakura's posting indicates that she isn't

trying

to be townread. Wraps around to the classic "if I'm a wolf, how come I'm not being townread?" argument, as if getting townread is this guaranteed thing to gain with certain posts rather than something that wolves fail at a bunch.

I wouldn't randomly throw out a townread and defend a player just for the fun of it?

Scum do that, though. Not "for the fun of it", but scum make reads and engage with the game in ways that aren't solely focused on pushing townies over or doing super surface level townie things. Scum want to act like they do as town, to look helpful, to look as though they're thinking about the game, to maintain presence, to cozy up to people, to not get seen as an inactive...
Sakura making a handful of posts that aren't focused on throwing someone under the bus doesn't mean she's town? It feels like a reach

sakura

might be the only read from

meuh

i register until i nudged her about it.

maybe im scum reading keyleth's personality

level of reevaluation may be town? or scum realizing its not viable push.... i need more real-time interaction with

dann

VOTE: Aristeia

to find associatives in the first 5 pages immediately is asinine in most cases, and i dont understand where you're getting your assertions

mandate

, its almost entirely a grief with my playstyle.

Does this also refer to me? I gave a fairly strong anti-association read.

to find associatives in the first 5 pages immediately is asinine in most cases, and i dont understand where you're getting your assertions

mandate

,

its almost entirely a grief with my playstyle.

-gif snipped-

What does this mean?

Ehhh, not referring to you here

Brown Eyes

Am curious about your vote brown eyes.

Care to elaborate?

Fairly bad entrance, I think. She indicated in 208 that she had read the thread, yet her first posts were fairly unsubstantial in a way that feels like she was trying to look productive. I also think that given the opinion she gives in 211 that she expects townies who are pushed in an overbearing way to find it annoying and push back, her questions to Taly seem somewhat strange and informed:

its strange that you are saying mandate is "griefing" you because doesnt that assume mandate is town?

like if mandate is mafia and you're town then this wouldn't be a grief it would just be hyper aggression lining up lims and seizing thread control - your lack of any suspicion of this push is kind of ?? to me.

If I were in this situation, I would just

ask

Taly what her read on you is. It's hard to phrase this, but it feels more like she's just pointing something out rather than actually trying to interrogate anything.

I think there's a depth of thought here about how

Brown Eyes

sees the

Ari-Mandate-Taly

interaction that is hard to fake nuance.

BE

puts herself in the scenario rather than just being a cold commentator of it.

Ari u tell me if Beeboy is town when he posts we will invite him into our kingdom

i think he's town

me too
incredible!

Only thing of substance from

Alisae

Everything I want to post is just being posted by other people as I catch up. I’m giving up doing quote posts since this post will be ultimately small as I want to avoid restating too much >.>

I agree with Dunn being above average scum, as he continues to post he is redeeming himself from the start though not sure if I’ll still think he is scummy by game start.

Dan feels a bit too aggressive out of the gates and it’s either scummy or a lot of excitement not sure which one yet, probably just scummy.

Mandate is town because Taly was giving me pings around the time they voted them. I do think Taly is town atm as well though. Post #83 is actually like too wolfy to come from a wolf I feel like anyone with self awareness would avoid posting that.

Meuh had a strange opener, like the real one not the rvs vote, I’ll hold my breathe for now because I can sorta see myself over explaining like that as either alignment. But over explaining simple NAI things is more of a scum trait even if it’s not concrete. As I kept reading though I find it hard to care.

I have some people I find null because I’m confused and other people are more deliberately null because I feel they aren’t doing things. I eventually hit a Point in the thread where things got tricky to read cause I don’t ever get a good feel for a thread catching up so I just started to aggressively skim the posts.

Dunns alignment is one of the most important ones to discuss because he will flip and interactions with him feel important because of that.

My take on mechs:

I don’t want to go mercy because I don’t want to be stuck in a game without townie people. Especially when a lot of what goes into town reading people involves taking fun people out of the game. If something occurs with flips to make going mercy optimal I’ll re evaluate this strategy take.

Why not like the RVS vote on me, about

BE

?

Why is

Dann

probably just scummy and what do you make of their wagon and lack of reaction to it?

YOu emphasize

Dunn

is an important person to discern but do not add more detail to that.

Not to defend the person that I am currently voting but do you think that her alt guess on me might be relevant to this? Not really sure how else to phrase this.

I don't see why it would be? Not entirely sure what you're getting at, to be honest.

by your logic brown eyes you are mafia because you are just pointing out something rather than interrogating me

My "logic" obviously isn't to say that that in every case pointing something out rather than asking questions is scum indicative. Is that what you took away from what I just said?

What I'm saying specifically is that I found the way in which you chose to talk about the Taly/mandate interaction bizarre, and seemingly indicative of you being unconcerned with sorting. I guess while we're on the subject, maybe I should just ask – what exactly is your read on Taly? What was it when you made 191 and 194?

I currently lean towards mafia on Taly's alignment currently.

I think it's pretty obvious I thought Taly was scummy when I made post 191 & 194.

I actually find that fairly surprising!

I wanted to see where

BE

was going with this tbh.. I'm intrigued by that slot.

curious as to why you think so

i get much better reads when i approach the thread like a spectator or someone who is not attached to his relationships with other people in the game

I have not been getting much that i feel great about from the thread lately so im trying to take a step back and also give room for the people who haven't really started playing the game yet

still trying to discern this via vote

Then, did you misunderstand what my point was or do you still think it's an "unsubstantial" read?

Misunderstood your point, I think engaging in theoretical discussion that doesn't amount to much and revolves around general ideas on the game rather than things specific to what's currently going on is scummy, both for myself and for others, so it's fair

only thing ive read from

meuh

and its a +1

Read my posts they’re all great!

this is where i wonder if

meuh's

confidence is scum projecting

I should really be resting soon but the premise of my thinking right now is that scum does not have substance but appears to have something that makes logical sense.

I like this post along with the scumread on me, kind of feels like Taly has a vague idea of the place or the way in which scum are playing and is trying to fit someone into it as a puzzle piece, which is how I tend to approach things a lot of the time. (I talk a lot about things "clicking", for me my reasoning for a scumread is often more just that it fits into place rather than some intense feeling on that specific player)

i tend to be townread by scum when i push them, so i am wondering what to make of this

I guess if I feel people not voting is part of the reason everyone is town reading each other I should vote someone.

Meuh

gotta use the vote tags for it to count

z.z I forgot we had vote tags here I am so rusty.

VOTE: Meuh

yeah this doesn't follow from your first bigger post much, does it?

[Taly]

and now of note,

meuh

pushes

beeboy

[Taly]

i like

BE

i think and want to work with them tbh

i have a better understanding of the

beeboy

votes

still have reservations about

meuh

and

dann

and

ali

is there ig

[Taly]

meuh

would you say your posts intend to pacify me?

[Taly]

something for the anime girlies and scummers

[Taly]

I can't tell if I'm being roasted or read lmao

[Taly]

I really think

Sakura

is just town,

Dann

.

fixed BBCode

[Taly]

Am I really this towny when I'm a thorn in someone's ass lol

Getting townread for pushing people

[Taly]

Oh I'm fucked up atm and got a med change wooooo

[Taly]

I just don't scumread

Sakura, Dunn

I once caught her as scum based on tone immediately and I don't get it here in the slightest

[Taly]

Haha I Know right

[Taly]

I am fucking cool

[Taly]

My vote doesn't have teeth anymore


Hmmm

VOTE: beeboy

Let's go here

[Taly]

I am mentally ill equipped to explain this vote just look at my ISO

[Taly]

Oh shit really?

UNVOTE: