open 896: describing conker (game over)

[Aristeia]

T

locktown

[Aristeia]

T

locktown

Scumclaim

I accept your scumclaim but it still counts as I caught you

[Aristeia]

im gonna guess the scum team as elements + dannflor on page 2

i dont care that dannflor hasnt posted yet that's never stopped me

[Aristeia]

its early maybe we can reroll the game

[Aristeia]

elements tell Dannwolf to stop hiding in the scum PT and come and fight me

[Aristeia]

and on the other side i could pretty easily imagine ari scum setting things up this way

tell me more tell me more

[Aristeia]

wouldn't it be much more important to not be the first lim in the big hood if I were mafia?

I don't even think the small hood matters.

[Aristeia]

does this setup tend to play out with the small hood not mattering? that seems weird to me but idk

mmhmm

[Aristeia]

I feel like if we kill in the big hood, we should be taking the opinions of people in the big hood more seriously than the ones in the small hood on who to kill
The knowledge that there are no partners to help each other in the big hood helps us here

who do you want to kill in the big hood rn?

[Aristeia]

Posts like 83 & 91 have rubbed me the wrong way. They're making me feel like Ari is trying to push focus away from herself/her hood.

what do you think town!me would be doing differently?

[Aristeia]

am i town for being in the little neighborhood can any meta truthers back me up

gth i think you're town for not having posted in the hood yet

[Aristeia]

am i town for being in the little neighborhood can any meta truthers back me up

gth i think you're town for not having posted in the hood yet

Is elements a wolf

awoooooo

[Aristeia]

That isn’t an answer

yes elements is a mafia

[Aristeia]

am i town for being in the little neighborhood can any meta truthers back me up

gth i think you're town for not having posted in the hood yet

Is elements a wolf

Nah, ari is Red team

vote me then

[Aristeia]

am i town for being in the little neighborhood can any meta truthers back me up

gth i think you're town for not having posted in the hood yet

Is elements a wolf

Nah, ari is Red team

vote me then

I wanna try for the day 1 win first

this is acceptable

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Afrayed Knott

[Aristeia]

oo what's the motivation behind these votes?

his iso is pretty much empty of any scumhunting and there was no pressure there

[Aristeia]

the fire bit im a bit iffy on but i think there's like a 50/50 chance ari flips scum

there's a 0% chance I flip scum

[Aristeia]

everyone starts at 1/3 odds in the small hood.

i've explained how i've got a lot of conflicting thoughts on the el slot, but there's nothing too concerning there so el stays at 1/3

sheeping ydrasse meta analysis for now cause i don't have knowledge on the slot, seems like an unlikely player to opt into the small hood. 1/6.

that leaves ari who hasn't rly townpinged me with anything they've done whatsoever and as i've talked about earlier there's an air of self-protection around the slot that feels scummy. 1/2 is what's left.

I protect myself as both alignments

[Aristeia]

yea I think it makes more sense as a "I'm going to scare people off Knott" by voting for him than a "I think Knott is mafia" because it doesn't really fit into his prior worldview

[Aristeia]

I guess maybe he's just town and knott is mafia and ydra is scum in small hood but that's p irrelevant if we lim knott today

hence why small hood really doesnt matter

[Aristeia]

I guess maybe they are just town and knott is mafia and ydra is scum in small hood but that's p irrelevant if we lim knott today

hence why small hood really doesnt matter

edited for pronouns sorry elements

[Aristeia]

his iso is pretty much empty of any scumhunting and there was no pressure there

[Aristeia]

not sure why the wagon rolled. Ari said there is no scum hunting in my ISO, yes there’s nothing there for sure, as the days just begun, and I really have nothing to go on. All I’m seeing for about 8 pages is a lot of joking around by people who seem to have played together a few times in the past, So ok.

do you have any reads

None right now, tbh. Elements asks me which reaction of theirs I found weird, it is this

elements/knott imo

You are, wrong

Didn’t vibe right when I read it. Defensive but not defensive, possible considered. But then it’s a weak thought to be frank

this feels like overexplained for something that has no substance

[Aristeia]

maybe ill read some Afrayed meta but i lack motivation

[Aristeia]

I don't think I'd characterize my scum play as pretending to be wallpaper but thank you for the vote of confidence fireisredsir

[Aristeia]

what do you define as "scumhunting" ?

[Aristeia]

like would you say me voting you and claiming you're mafia for not having content in your iso is "not scum hunting?"

[Aristeia]

what do you define as "scumhunting" ?

Asking questions looking for gaps in logic or statements that don’t tally with previous statements, how do you define it?

voting/pressuring/talking to players for alignment indicative behavior

[Aristeia]

Posts like 83 & 91 have rubbed me the wrong way. They're making me feel like Ari is trying to push focus away from herself/her hood.

what do you think town!me would be doing differently?

ok you claim that there's no scumhunting in my iso

here is a post i picked out from it.

do you understand how its asking oopsie for a thought process in the counter factual?

[Aristeia]

specifically she states a behavior by me [focussing on the other hood] and claims a motivation [because ari is mafia]

my response to her is to ask her what would Town!Ari in a the world where Ari is town be doing instead?

this is to see if she's actually thought things out about muliple possibilities and decided ari!town would be doing this and ari!scum would be doing this and because ari is doing this then she is mafia.

It's very easy to say behavior A is scum motivated because of ___ if you don't really consider what a person does when they're town.

[Aristeia]

@Afrayed Knott How do you usually go about finding reads in mafia games?

First day for me it’s a mess unless something pings and doesn’t work out in my mind. Or doesn’t feel right. Then if I make it to D2, which has been a rarity for me, I look at any associations I might see or look at any solves that might start to appear. I’m fairly new to the game so it’s all still a learning process atm.

I guess what I'm asking for is when you read this thread and say you stare at it and its dead. what thoughts come to your mind about each of the players?

whats memorable? whats not? which post feels like scummy and which post feels townie to you?

you are in a hood of six, one of which is mafia, if you're town then which of the five others do you suspect the most? which of the five others do you think is unlikely to be mafia? why?

like this isnt a court of law, the things we say could be right or wrong but it doesnt matter so much as we're actually doing something because if no1 does anything then whats the point?

im sorry if this feels overwhelming but I'd appreciate it if you could spend some time on each player and just jot down whatever thoughts come to mind.

if you don't have the time for every player, you can do one per day and be done with all 8 before the deadline.

[Aristeia]

I wasnt offended! you dont need to be sorry :<

[Aristeia]

this is going to be so embarrassing if the one time I don't scumread you you're actually mafia

[Aristeia]

I’ll post tomorrow, I just lost my Job.

Sorry to hear

[Aristeia]

i unironically think aristeia is the scum in the small hood because 253 is too nice

I kind of feel like scum!dann never says this about me because its kind of icky and i think he knows i'm trying to be a nicer person after the last trainwreck we played through

[Aristeia]

Pressuring me is probably good for the gamestate actually

what do you expect to happen?

[Aristeia]

meuh who do you think is mafia in the big hood

[Aristeia]

ok so why are you not pushing for either of them or sorting them or using your vote? it feels like you've decided to be a passive passenger here and engage with Ydrasse of all people?

[Aristeia]

@Fire you are scum!!!

Added exclamation marks to be less passive

[Aristeia]

VOTE: fireisredsir

[Aristeia]

I agree with everything Black has said and done this page

do you want me to hammer Meuh

[Aristeia]

I kind of feel like elements is never partnered with meuh here because daring me to hammer her is wild if he's partnered with her and that just leaves Ydrasse and those interactions didn't feel partnered either.

[Aristeia]

meuh it’s very funny that you said pressuring you was good for the gamestate and then promptly disappeared

come back dannwoooooof

[Aristeia]

VOTE: dannflor

[Aristeia]

I'm like maybe 75% that limming dannflor will end this game

[Aristeia]

and meuh's only real significant contribution to this game is 262 which feels like a scum post

so im happy with a page 15 solve of ari/meuh

like I don't see how town dannflor feels that he's one vote away from winning a game vs me/meuh and just ghosts?

like I guess maybe he was just busy but I also feel like maybe it was just awkward for him to re-enter thread and actually interact with meuh when she's ateing because he doesn't know how to close her without making himself look bad and he hopes Black will push her over the edge for him.

it feels like he doesnt want to be here and I can see why he'd not want to be here if black!town is pushing meuh!town for him and he can just kind of cheer from the sidelines.

[Aristeia]

maybe he just has a life and has better things to do on a friday night than geek out on mafia message boards in which case im sorry i am needy and stupid

[Aristeia]

Is there any other reason you scumread Dannflor? I don't think he's been on the site today

i felt like the way he responded to me saying he was town for scumreading me for being nice felt somewhat guilty in a weird way

[Aristeia]

maybe it was just awkward for him to re-enter thread and actually interact with meuh when she's ateing because he doesn't know how to close her without making himself look bad and he hopes Black will push her over the edge for him.

it feels like he doesnt want to be here and I can see why he'd not want to be here if black!town is pushing meuh!town for him and he can just kind of cheer from the sidelines.

like this feels like kind of a stretch to me in several ways

- i don't think dann would really believe that meuh would be likely to go over without his active support
- i don't think it would be a particularly difficult thread state for him to navigate
- i don't think it would help him long term as scum to be conspicuously absent while town pushes town. that's likely to look significantly worse than being present

ok but i just played a game with scum!dann where he basically chilled while I fought with another loud town player so its kind of like deja vu to me

[Aristeia]

lets say you're right though fire

who is the mafia in the big group then?

[Aristeia]

lets say you're right though fire

who is the mafia in the big group then?

my current vote is daisy

ok but why does daisy unvote at e-1 and back off the meuh mislim if she's mafia? optics?

[Aristeia]

it feels so counter intuitive to do at that spot unless she's mafia with elements and its planned?

[Aristeia]

mb you're just much better at playing this game than I am because I can only think in straight lines

[Aristeia]

im just thinking about that

like

lets say daisy is mafia

why would she not just wait a few more minutes to see if I actually hammer rather than unvote mere minutes from elements challenging me?

like if shes mafia she doesnt lose anything ? like waiting 4 minutes to unvote versus waiting 10 minutes to unvote is not really much different?

[Aristeia]

like regardless of how well you think she knows me it feels like the reward of getting thru this day is worth waiting a few extra minutes

[Aristeia]

why didnt you care about why i voted you ?

[Aristeia]

nah its fine

have a good night fire

[Aristeia]

one last question

did you think elements wanted me to hammer meuh?

[Aristeia]

ok good night for reals now

[Aristeia]

so i wasn’t around yesterday because im hosting my sister from out of town, ill have similarly limited access until monday morning, but ill try to check in once a day

re: the meuh debacle

I don’t really see anything that precludes an Ari/Meuh team being possible but my read is softening on Meuh due to a combination of her reactions to Black and the fact that it doesn’t super seem like she’s playing to get town read

I mean she’s still kinda null reading the entire small hood and isn’t big on the definite stances in general and i think whoever put themselves in the big hood is gonna be playing pretty hard to deepwolf

hehe sounds like you are talking about yourself

[Aristeia]

tbh i think you made a mistake putting me in small hood rather than big because even if we 1v1 here and you win you're still kind of losing if they deadsheep me tomm which is why you cant really hardpush me here.

[Aristeia]

tbh i think you made a mistake putting me in small hood rather than big because even if we 1v1 here and you win you're still kind of losing if they deadsheep me tomm which is why you cant really hardpush me here.

what has you convinced that dann is scum i still don't really feel like ive heard what prompted this belief

he feels like his goal is to move in a way that makes himself look good rather than actually possessing curiosity to want to solve the game and arrive at a solution

I guess I think if he's town here he's not so self conscious?

[Aristeia]

like if he believes the meuh/ari solution, I would think he'd be here to press meuh and sort her

but he doesn't

ok sure let's say its because he was busy with his sister etc

now he's back and he's just kind of casually walking away from it with a comment about it after its happened and he moves onto the next step to respond to me.

I don't think anything he's done with respect to meuh is to sort her or place her.

[Aristeia]

i feel like ive played like super not optically even compared to my usual town play

I feel like I'm the only person even suspecting you in this entire pl and thats p much what you want if you're mafia so I don't really think your optics management is particularly lacking this game

[Aristeia]

ari, idk, feels like she’s scumreading me because she wants to or needs to take that position

like why does scum!me even want to or need to take a position where i'm pushing you

explain how that even makes sense for me to do

[Aristeia]

What are 546 547 548 about, I was sort of leaning scum on Dann, but not so much now. I suppose in relation to these posts. I'm not convince on the sincerity of the content from Ari or feel they are genuine thoughts.

?

why are you voting elements if you think my thoughts are fake? you know there can only be one mafia between me and elements at max right?

[Aristeia]

mb you're just much better at playing this game than I am because I can only think in straight lines

Would you say 562 and 564 are straight line thinking?

yes thats pretty much my definition of straight line thinking

[Aristeia]

[Aristeia]

no his point is that this is something I need to do as scum

i dont understand his thinking

[Aristeia]

JupiterXV (3) - Meuh, Dannflor, Elements

Afrayed Knott (3) - Aristeia, Dannflor, Elements

Meuh (3) - Dannflor, OopsieDaisy, Elements

it would be pretty funny if the scumteam was just dannflor + elements and they decided to just openwolf to the max

[Aristeia]

elements what's your read on dannflor?

[Aristeia]

I also believe that Elements doesn't put himself in a hood with Ari/ydra and I town read Ydrasse

Dann can you explain this read of Elements.


like why do you even bother to ask him questions like in 189 if you think he's town just off where he is located.

[Aristeia]

I also believe that Elements doesn't put himself in a hood with Ari/ydra and I town read Ydrasse

Dann can you explain this read of Elements.

like why do you even bother to ask him questions like in 189 if you think they are town just off where they are located.

sorry fixed

[Aristeia]

I also believe that Elements doesn't put themselves in a hood with Ari/ydra and I town read Ydrasse

Dann can you explain this read of Elements.

like why do you even bother to ask them questions like in 189 if you think they are town just off where they are located.

sorry fixed

oops missed some pronouns sorry

[Aristeia]

That he's not red team with you

when did you make this assessment?

[Aristeia]

like even if you're pretending you have me at lockscum I didn't really do anything to push Dann until yesterday I even called him town off some pretty convoluted logic and you've been following him around for a while before then so that can't be the sum of all the thoughts you've had about his alignment up to now.

[Aristeia]

so you've been following him on voting for Jupiter, Afayeed, Meuh.

but you decided on his alignment as town off what he interacted with me in the last twenty four hours.

ok cool

[Aristeia]

why did you want me to hammer Meuh if you think I'm lock scum btw?

[Aristeia]

like if you're town and you think I'm mafia

and I ask you hey do you want me to hammer this person here.

if she's mafia with me obviously I won't do it.

but if she's town like why would you want me to do it?

[Aristeia]

A) i think you are just the type of person who reflexively pushes people who push you as town. I think you know this and would try to replicate this as scum. But, i just don’t believe your scum read on me. It seems fabricated and very weak coming from you and I don’t expect you to have weak reads.

(1) I don't do this as town, I pretty much only push back if I need to sort the player or I think it's likely the person pushing me is mafia. I can pretty easily show games where I just ignore pushes on me as town.

(2) I didn't replicate anything as scum, you are trying to claim the impetus of me pushing you is you pushing me, which is simply not true. My initial reaction to you pushing me was to say I thought you would pretty much never push me with "ari is too nice so she's scum" because its just like kind of ? to say about someone, the implication being that when I'm town I'm mean or whatever. I only began pushing you after watching meuh get pushed and you basically not being here for all of it and being afk. This has nothing to do with you suspecting me and you trying to claim I'm trying to "replicate town meta" by pushing back is simply a verifiable lie and not what actually happened.

(3) Claiming that my reasoning for you not sorting meuh is better than my reasoning for you not being here and saying its post hoc is ?
You not being here to sort is the same thing as you not sorting Meuh. My point is that you didn't sort her.

I have to run but ill address the rest later

[Aristeia]

(3) Claiming that my reasoning for you not sorting meuh is better than my reasoning for you not being here and saying its post hoc is ?
You not being here to sort is the same thing as you not sorting Meuh. My point is that you didn't sort her.

Uhhh

and meuh's only real significant contribution to this game is 262 which feels like a scum post

so im happy with a page 15 solve of ari/meuh

like I don't see how town dannflor feels that he's one vote away from winning a game vs me/meuh and just ghosts?

like I guess maybe he was just busy but I also feel like maybe it was just awkward for him to re-enter thread and actually interact with meuh when she's ateing because he doesn't know how to close her without making himself look bad and he hopes Black will push her over the edge for him.

it feels like he doesnt want to be here and I can see why he'd not want to be here if black!town is pushing meuh!town for him and he can just kind of cheer from the sidelines.

maybe he just has a life and has better things to do on a friday night than geek out on mafia message boards in which case im sorry i am needy and stupid

like if he believes the meuh/ari solution, I would think he'd be here to press meuh and sort her

but he doesn't

ok sure let's say its because he was busy with his sister etc

now he's back and he's just kind of casually walking away from it with a comment about it after its happened and he moves onto the next step to respond to me.

I don't think anything he's done with respect to meuh is to sort her or place her.

The groundwork for Dann scum here was him not being there, it's something you made pretty clear? It was specific to the timeframe in which he was not there. Then later you added that Dann's pop in after the E-1 shenanigans still wasn't trying to sort me. Dann is saying that the second argument is better than the first, but that the first was the base of the argument? At least as far as I understand it.

ok so danns point is that him continuing not to sort you is a better reason for him being scum than the initial reason of him not being here and that i am adding it in as "post hoc"

like i came up with a reason for scumreading him and then added more stuff.

so when i accuse someone of being mafia and then they do more scummy stuff later that makes me more convinced they are mafia am i supposed to like not add it in as additional reasoning?

[Aristeia]

But, i just don’t believe your scum read on me. It seems fabricated and very weak coming from you and I don’t expect you to have weak reads.

I think the issue here is "weak"

I do not really have an issue fabricating read strength as mafia. I find it to be one of the easiest things to do because people tend to listen to loud voices with a lot of conviction.

I think you know I am perfectly capable of faking conviction as mafia so its so weird to me that you think me being purposefully restrained in regards to you is because I am mafia.

I felt somewhat embarrassed and guilty about misreading you as mafia the last time we were T/T and I appreciated how nice you were about it. I wouldn't really want to push you that hard anyway because I enjoy playing with you. Even if I were at 100% I think I would still be nice about it. I am not sure you are mafia, I am just guessing here.

you claim my read of you is bad/weak and thus I am mafia except its pretty much the same thing I said about you in the last game we played together, you were mafia then so I think you would remember. You could have said I am mafia replicating a previous read but instead you claim I am mafia because my reads are not this weak as town when you should know thats not true.

I guess i could be pushing you harder but I dont really want the responsiblity tbh. like if you are mafia and you lim me and then town ignores me and lets you win i wouldnt feel bad about it. id just feel vindicated that i was right where everyone else was wrong. and if you are town and i limmed you then i would feel bad because everyone else is right and I am wrong. so despite me thinking you are mafia maybe I just dont want to kill you. i am kind of silly sometimes.

[Aristeia]

Like I’m not saying it’s because of that

You asked why i thought you would want to push me as scum

I explained why i thought that

I’m not trying to misrepresent your meta or whatever

my main point wasnt even about the meta it was the fact that you are trying to misrepresent the chain of events

you're claiming you pushed me and i tried to reflexively slap you back for it when thats not even what happened.

[Aristeia]

UNVOTE:

[Aristeia]

I don't think I've misinterpreted anything and I don't really care atp anymore

[Aristeia]

hello shiki it is nice to see you again

[Aristeia]

hello shiki it is nice to see you again

it is nice to see you as well

are you still at 75% re:dannflor being a wolf?

I don't know I have been trying to get this game out of my mind tbh

[Aristeia]

like realistically I don't really see the point in trying to argue vs dannflor because everyone thinks i'm wrong so its kind of whatever

if he lims me and he's mafia he would still eventually have to kill everyone in small hood and also be alive at f3 to win which is questionable for him if he's mafia since everyone thinks he's town except me so I kind of just decided there's no point it is what it is.

[Aristeia]

not just wrong actually they think I'm mafia and he's town so I guess it doesn't really matter to me atp

[Aristeia]

Dann has this new rejuvenation of the Black/Shiki slot given you any pause to reconsider your read at all?

do you like Dann's read of the slot at all

is his reasoning for why Black is mafia compelling to you?

[Aristeia]

Dann has this new rejuvenation of the Black/Shiki slot given you any pause to reconsider your read at all?

do you like Dann's read of the slot at all

is his reasoning for why Black is mafia compelling to you?

It's almost entirely based on partner equity with you right
So no, not really

I mean still scum

I think the way she has interacted (or not interacted) with both me and Ari is strange and that is regardless of Ari’s alignment

[Aristeia]

1111 make a wish

popcorn and rainbows

[Aristeia]

its more style points if it works out even after you say it

[Aristeia]

if ydra flip red one of us gets killed and we're back here tomorrow and same game so kind of pointless

[Aristeia]

if ydra flip town we get to watch a 1v1 while people yell and scream it will be even better

[Aristeia]

you don't think a ydra red flip would help us solve the big hood?

ok lets assume ydra flips red and one of me/ele r shot

what new information did you get

[Aristeia]

like how does that help you untangle the big hood

[Aristeia]

am i going to stare at ydrasse's conversation with meuh and wonder if that's her bailing out her partner by giving associatives?

am i going to think about whether so and so's read on ydra being town in small hood cuz she wouldnt subject herself to a 1v1 was too bad to be scum or scum helping scum

like its just guessing except she's not here for you to see a reaction anymore

[Aristeia]

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Daisy e-1 etc etc

[Aristeia]

i counted like twice to make sure it wasnt a hammer

[Aristeia]

was this the reaction you wanted shiki

[Aristeia]

I'm partnered with Daisy so I will not be hammering!

that would be quite the hack

[Aristeia]

we're ultra scummy ele

[Aristeia]

we're ultra scummy ele

Are you trying to wind me up lmao. Honest question like what is that supposed to achieve for town right now?

I thought it was funny

Why would I try to wind you up?

[Aristeia]

we're ultra scummy ele

We'd make a great team

we were a great scum team and then you randomly ditched me

[Aristeia]

The more flustered I am the worst my posting is gonna get, and thus I become an easier target. You've seen me hurt under pressure already this game.

i have no intention of hurting anyone this game. I thought what you said was really funny when I read it, if it will make you feel better I'll even help you lim myself i really do not care at this point I haven't cared in a while.

[Aristeia]

i won't be able to post a ton btw but ill check this when i can

[Aristeia]

do u want me to self?

[Aristeia]

i take back what i said about dannflor btw

[Aristeia]

i am waiting at a subway stop rn for my train lemme know what you want me to do

[Aristeia]

i take back what i said about dannflor btw

which part

you being 75% mafia

[Aristeia]

i am waiting at a subway stop rn for my train lemme know what you want me to do

contribute literally anything you can

just keep killing in the small hood and dont let the lim go big hood

[Aristeia]

i think ydra town ele mafia

big hood i dunno

[Aristeia]

VOTE: elements

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Ydrasse


I think probably everyone thinks it's me here and that's fine tbh. let's just get this over with and go to f3 and don't talk too much about who you suspect as mafia because that just helps the mafia pick out the f3 that favors them,

[Aristeia]

VOTE: Ari

gl

[Aristeia]

gg wp