Open 714: Tit for Tat [Game Over]

[TheGoldenParadox]

VOTE: jmo

@mod can you post another votecount?

--sorry

[TheGoldenParadox]

--sorry

lmao

[TheGoldenParadox]

VOTE: jmo

@mod can you post another votecount?

You particularly waited for him to post something to do that to him, Paradox. You naughty boy.

no, no, no. I randomly went on, posted my vote, and then submitte, and then there was a votecount. I then edited my post to include that part lmao.

Hey guys, this is my first game out of the The Road To Rome, so I'm not used to this pace. I got lost with all the chit chat about older games, and I don't have metareadings of anyone because I haven't played with almost anyone here, with Gamma and TheGoldenParadox as an exception, so I can't help much with that, but I'll do my best! I'll read older games from anyone in my spare time, I promise.

As for the game, I only have a townread on Mathdino for now. I think his question about mafia having daytalk was genuine.

Elsa Jay, I have a question for you:

Now, if we build a wagon on Mutantdevle and he's hung, he'll either flip vanilla townie or scum, so I'll say what will happen if we do that.

If he flips scum: Great, we somehow did that on day one and we give town a huge advantage, especially if he's one of the Powerroles and not just the Goon.

If he flips town: we'll go into the night with the knowledge of who tried to easily push the wagon for different reasons and who opposed it for also different reasons for the Jailkeeper and Vigilante to figure out. Taking themselves out of the equation, they each have a 3/10 shot of hitting a Mafia. Which is good, but Mafia only have to try and shoot 3/8 people left not counting themselves of hitting a PR.

Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't this true with any wagon we do on this day? Is there any reason that this would be better if we lynch Mutant and not anyone else? I know you and Mathdino were talking about him, maybe that's why you used Mutant as an example, but this called my attention.

Well first of all, welcome! I had my first game a little over three months ago, so I hope your enjoying Mafia too. You never have to look back at the Newbie Queue again, like I did. Well you can, of course. Up to you.

And your right, it did apply to anyone who got hung, those would have been the odds going into the night. Putting a name to something for an example always makes it easier to understand though.

And a final tip: I also got annoyed when I was a noob and everyone was talking about older games like a month ago yet look at me now! It'll come with experience, I think.

Now if you'll just follow everything I say to a "T", we'll be fine!

Stop pocketing newbies. This is scummy.

VOTE: luca blight

I want to get this to L-1.

This stinks.

VOTE: jmo

Luca can be scum, yeah.

Based on what, exactly?

Hey, at least we are getting someone to L-1 and we aren't stagnant anymore!

Are you voting me purely because I wanted your wagon/creature wagon to get to L-1 or what?

This is really ugly. It seems like heavy lynchbait.

The reason you're getting the

cock

vibe from Jay is precisely because of his undefeated record as scum. That doesn't, however, encapsulate his town game.
The way I would better put it is "the longer Jay lives, the more likely scum is to win"

LMAOOOOOOOO
I disagree. I think that Jay (and I, too) are LyLo liabilities, but that doesn't mean scum is more likely to win, and I believe that MAYBE that's true, but I kinda doubt it.

the cockY vibe from Jay

Autocorrect

what a meme it is to have jay, aneninen, paradox, and almost50 all in the same game

jay lemme tell you about the time paradox claimed babysitter and unironically calmly self-hammered, thinking it was the town thing to do

Edit: I in no way advocate for townreading Jay, lol.

Wait a second:
1)First - I forgot that I was a Town PR before I self hammered.
2)I wasn't the one who hammered, you were.

Spoiler: proof

Prepare for:

Votecount 2.6

Votecount 2.6

	L-3	L-2	L-1	Hammer
RC most awesomest
DoYouKnowDeWay	Elmo TeH AzN
TheGoldenParadox	Dunkerdoodles	schadd_	RC most awesomest	Mathdino
Mathdino
schadd_
Elmo TeH AzN
Dunkerdoodles	TheGoldenParadox
Nolynch

3)I was a stupid idiot back then.

[TheGoldenParadox]

You thought you self hammered, same difference

Believe it or not, I actually have faith in your reads when we're both town, considering you were dead right in Marked For Death and had I been town in Creature's game, we'd have come to the same conclusions. Obviously the problem occurs when you fail to read me, but that's another story

Wanna do a writeup?

A) What's a writeup in this context?
B) I believe having faith in my reads is one of the most stupid things you could do as town. I'd say that sentence in itself was scummy

[TheGoldenParadox]

... oh jeez I didn't think it was that big of an infraction. Will not even do something like that again then.

Can you clarify the crumb, I don't seem to understand.

[TheGoldenParadox]

pagetop
My reads more often than not suck.
*cough*Greatest Idea Mafia*cough*
and then I realise that North is the only frickin' scum

[TheGoldenParadox]

HOT TAKE: NSG is locktown. Good to know, moving on then.

Jay isn't scum with mutant. Nice to know I guess.

northsidegal is actually scum.

DOUBLY so if Creature turns out to be town through the day. Creature's read was right on point. I'll give NSG a couple chances to explain to me why exactly I think that.
And yes, this is a test, the response may very well affect this read. Please do actually explain why I, personally, Mathdino, am scumreading you. I wanna see if you're seeing the same things.

VOTE: northsidegal

FoS Mathdino

flip floppy as hell. Tell me the previous post was a joke and I'll get off your back.
VOTE: northsidegal
Actual vote.
Also feel like Jay is town for taking the effort to separate informative lynches from gut lynches, looks towny in my opinion.
Also, I feel like a possible motive for Almost being so passive that if he was active in this scenario, people would become suspicious that he wasn't NKed(since he can't NK himself).
Thoughts?
Pedit - Gamma, how is Aneinen trying to discredit here? Who/what is he trying to discredit?

[TheGoldenParadox]

pagetop
My reads more often than not suck.
*cough*Greatest Idea Mafia*cough*
and then I realise that North is the only frickin' scum

That game was

weird

. Don't blame yourself.

Yeah I guess, it was still a win . I feel like if the mod had gone with setup C(I think) it would have been a more fun and fair experience even though there were 7 antitown and no one would have hated her. Just my opnion tho.

[TheGoldenParadox]

I also fake claim to save my ass no matter what, so believe me at your own risk.

stop gamethrowing

[TheGoldenParadox]

In real terms, here's where I'm at in terms of reads right now:
Mathdino: Generally looks gamesolvy but he always looks gamesolvy. I have no aptitude to read this guy. That was proved in Creature's micro; 2018 Goals. I doubt this slot is a PR for reasons that it'd probably be anti-town to discuss.
Jay: I'm getting town vibes from them, see 346
Almost50: Looks kinda scummy to me. Possibly passive to avoid suspicion about not being the N1 kill.
Luca Blight: Slliigghht scumlean. Focusing on one or two players atm but honestly I trust the looking after your son explanation, I feel false explanations for not being ere when you're under suspicion is just not behavior that any compassionate or understanding human would do.
NSG: Depends 100% on her response to the wagon on her.
Creature: Null.
Pin: Townlean, I like how he's putting effort that seems to come from a town mindset.
Anen: Slight townlean. I like how he seems gamesolvy-ish and looks like he is trying to help.
Gamma: Another player I don't know how to read. Most of his posts are one liners so I have no idea.
Paradox: I'm not giving a read on myself nononononono
JMO: I don't like this. Scumlean because it looks like he has a lot of fluff not trying to move the game forward.
mutant: For anyone else I would have a slight scumlean for self voting at the very start =. Here I have no personal meta so I don't know what he does normally.


So my tiers are like this:
{Jay, Anen, Pin}
{math, Gamma, Creature}
{mutant, NSG}
{Luca, JMO, Almost}

Pedit: I'm piggybacking your NSG vote for *reasons* of my own.
I believe I can town read Jay for motivation.
PPEDIT: SCREW Y'ALL JUST LET ME MAKE MY FRICKING POST
PPPPEDIT:

SCREW YOU JAY

[TheGoldenParadox]

Yeah, I understand that concept well enough. My failed town games before and my previous experience in ToS taught me that lesson. It's how I improved to fast, really. I learn quick, even if I relapse sometimes.

I'd also like to question on why Paradox waited so long to comment on one of my so-far standard RVS Introductions I make, let alone immediately accuse it of gamethrowing out of the blue. Did you just start too re-read or were you specfically looking for something to accuse me with?

A) It was a joke
B) I had just started to reread to create the readslist

[TheGoldenParadox]

Okay this is my problem here with restricting our lynch pool to creature/NSG:
Let's say scum are neither of those. It restricts discussion, allows for less diversity in speech, and is anti-town in general.
VOTE: Mathdino because i think you're smart enough to realize that. Very well could be a scum gambit that if everyone hopped on to would cause an easy mislynch and a very easy excuse tomorrow (Oh, they were lurking and weren't active). i don't believe that a town!dino would do that on purpose and I do think a scum dino is smart enough to do it.

[TheGoldenParadox]

Pinturicchio
Gamma Emerald
TheGoldenParadox
jmo16mla
mutantdevle

Okay, some of these are meh and need to do more.

*cough*the hypocrisy*cough*

[TheGoldenParadox]

I doubt this slot is a PR for reasons that it'd probably be anti-town to discuss.

If you think that I would never forget if I were a PR because I seem like I have a great memory, you're dead wrong. In fact, I'm pretty sure RedFlavor only asked us to confirm our alignments, which means I never even had to type back my role.

Incorrect. I believe you are not a PR for other reasons.

Pedit: What "last time I played with you, you were scum" trap? I don't really believe that this was a gambit.

I have trust in Dino's reads if he's town.

I want you at least to promise to explain the gambit and give me an answer to the inconsistency questions on D2.
I don't understand how I'm locktown because of this and this looks slightly like buddying/pocketing. (seem familiar?)

[TheGoldenParadox]

According to the site rules I may not explain this.

I... don't.... understand...
Can you at least name the site rule?

[TheGoldenParadox]

Well I learned recently that the wiki password is also your account password. For your future reference if you decide to update your wiki.

I'm never going to have or update a wiki. A) It's too much work. B) I don't think I'm a good enough player to have a page on the wiki all for myself. C) I prefer at least some anonymity.

Pedit:Math... okay then.

[TheGoldenParadox]

creature i guarantee you're not gonna see this as bussing when i drop where my scumread is coming from

Okay then.
VOTE: NSG
This looks peculiarly like Gest Idea and peculiarly different from MfD2 and 2018 Goals.
I want NSG to do more for the game, and I want her to actually post.

[TheGoldenParadox]

@mod; request prod on NSG

[TheGoldenParadox]

357 - Did Paradox ever answer my question regarding his scumread of me? If he did, ignore this as I'll probably find it later.

I'm sorry, I must have missed that. Can you reference me to that post?

[TheGoldenParadox]

HOT TAKE: I'm 99% dying tonight.

[TheGoldenParadox]

So you're scumreading me for only focusing on a few players even though you believe my explanation for doing so?

KK sorry for not answering this.
I believe your explanation for being gone, but I don't think it justifies focusing on players.

[TheGoldenParadox]

HOT TAKE: NSG is locktown. Good to know, moving on then.

Jay isn't scum with mutant. Nice to know I guess.

northsidegal is actually scum.

DOUBLY so if Creature turns out to be town through the day. Creature's read was right on point. I'll give NSG a couple chances to explain to me why exactly I think that.
And yes, this is a test, the response may very well affect this read. Please do actually explain why I, personally, Mathdino, am scumreading you. I wanna see if you're seeing the same things.

VOTE: northsidegal

FoS Mathdino

flip floppy as hell. Tell me the previous post was a joke and I'll get off your back.
VOTE: northsidegal
Actual vote.
Also feel like Jay is town for taking the effort to separate informative lynches from gut lynches, looks towny in my opinion.
Also, I feel like a possible motive for Almost being so passive that if he was active in this scenario, people would become suspicious that he wasn't NKed(since he can't NK himself).
Thoughts?
Pedit - Gamma, how is Aneinen trying to discredit here? Who/what is he trying to discredit?

fos-ing mathdino while voting me seriously in the same post? could you elabroate on the mentality behind that, and on your vote on me?

KK. My vote on you was not a serious vote, it was a pressure vote and I said it was serious to get a reaction.
I don't believe that NSG is scum here. I do believe math is scum for countless reasons both luca and I have pointed out.
Interesting fact: did you know that I've only replaced into games twice, and both of them were replacing Luca?
VOTE: mathdino if II'm not already voting him.

[TheGoldenParadox]

I was FoSing mathdino because of flip-floppiness, sorry if I didn't make that clear.

[TheGoldenParadox]

Okay, Dino,
First you said we should be gladiating NSG and Creats at this point. Is that still the case?
TBH Dino is looking more scummy by the minute. His gambit isn't scummy by itself, but it kinda failed.
The problem with vigshots is that person doesn't get a chance to claim.
I think that we should use the HURT: tage to decide who to vig. Right now I'm unsure but I'd be leaning towards jmo or NSG. I'd prefer Mathdino to be either the D1 or D2 lynch here(or not a lynch at all) for reasons that I'd prefer not to discuss.

[TheGoldenParadox]

Aninen what team are you on? VALOR ROCKS Anen is obvtown cause he plays Pokemon Go.(joking)

Actually, tbh, i agree with Pin's reasoning. Gamma seems too much like he's pocketing a newbie who is (honestly) much better at the game than I am, even though I've played at least 8 or 9 games. Dino seems like he's pocketing me, and then WIFOMing it to make me think it'd be stupid for him to pocket me twice in a row. If both those pockets worked, and Gamma and Dino are scum, scum would have 5 votes on their side d1. That's a very powerful advantage for scum to have here, and for that reason, I'm definitely scumreading both of them
One thing I'm thinking; has anyone seen any association tells from either of them? I feel their interactions are sorta awkward but I can't explain why.

Pedit: this seems somewhat like a 180 on a scumpartner, does anyone feel the same or am I just biased here?
Ppedit: I agree with Luca that Math didn't "win" the 1v1. I want Dino to explain PbP his read on Luca.
Is a math/luca/gamma scumteam possible?

[TheGoldenParadox]

VOTE: Gamma

[TheGoldenParadox]

Is a math/luca/gamma scumteam possible?

If you have your head up your ass, yes. Math+Luca along with Me+Luca have been fighting it out for quite some time. Do you really think that's all theatre?

Yes, it could very well possibly be hard distancing.

[TheGoldenParadox]

Why would we though
I have recently shaped my stances on bussing to "don't do it if it doesn't help you mislynch more people". I only consider a bus good if I can make a faulty association occur with it. What do you think my plan is with bussing Luca, especially this early, where there hasn't been that much interaction?

Distancing, towncred, any number of reasons.

[TheGoldenParadox]

KK.
Sorry for being so flip floppy about this but after ISOing Gamma and looking more into interactions he's most likely town.
Now, reading into math, I'm almost sure he's scum, with pocketing, fluff, and trying to look active and helpful without much content. In particular, he dismissed my scumread of him calling it a common thing where if you were tricked by them you think they're scum. I don't see town motivation behind his posts, and I don't see his long-term and short-term goals, especially the gambit as he himself admitted that it didn't really work, as coming from a town-oriented mindset here. Dino, why are you working so hard to dismiss Luca and my scumreads of you in the eyes of other players?
VOTE: Mathdino
I don't see a math/luca scumteam here, but I think math could quite possible be scum with anyone else with the possible exception of gamma. I feel math has almost scumclaimed.

[TheGoldenParadox]

Pedit: this seems somewhat like a 180 on a scumpartner, does anyone feel the same or am I just biased here?

who were you referring to, with this?

dino's vote on gamma

[TheGoldenParadox]

KK.
Sorry for being so flip floppy about this but after ISOing Gamma and looking more into interactions he's most likely town.
Now, reading into math, I'm almost sure he's scum, with pocketing, fluff, and trying to look active and helpful without much content. In particular, he dismissed my scumread of him calling it a common thing where if you were tricked by them you think they're scum. I don't see town motivation behind his posts, and I don't see his long-term and short-term goals, especially the gambit as he himself admitted that it didn't really work, as coming from a town-oriented mindset here. Dino, why are you working so hard to dismiss Luca and my scumreads of you in the eyes of other players?
VOTE: Mathdino
I don't see a math/luca scumteam here, but I think math could quite possible be scum with anyone else with the possible exception of gamma. I feel math has almost scumclaimed.

Sorry I missed two whole pages between typing this and posting it. Don't think it changes much though.

[TheGoldenParadox]

KK.
Sorry for being so flip floppy about this but after ISOing Gamma and looking more into interactions he's most likely town.
Now, reading into math, I'm almost sure he's scum, with pocketing, fluff, and trying to look active and helpful without much content. In particular, he dismissed my scumread of him calling it a common thing where if you were tricked by them you think they're scum. I don't see town motivation behind his posts, and I don't see his long-term and short-term goals, especially the gambit as he himself admitted that it didn't really work, as coming from a town-oriented mindset here. Dino, why are you working so hard to dismiss Luca and my scumreads of you in the eyes of other players?
VOTE: Mathdino
I don't see a math/luca scumteam here, but I think math could quite possible be scum with anyone else with the possible exception of gamma. I feel math has almost scumclaimed.

Whom has Mathdino pocketed?
What if his short-term goal is to get a read on everyone?
Who many players are there whose long-term goals you can see?
Where did he almost scumclaimed?

1) Me. It's extremely obvious in 437
2) That's the thing. His short-term goals don't look like they're to get reads on people. From my perspective, these are looking like they're to

look

like they're trying to get reads on people.
3) None that I could see clearly, otherwise I'd instantly know their alignments. It's hazy, but I feel that I can see an Anti-town mindset in dino.
4) Multiple times; the blatant pocketing, the failed gambit, focusing on two players... I could see dino+NSG being a scumteam here.

[TheGoldenParadox]

Luca can you please put down a vote? Having reads with no vote to back them up is kinda pointless.

[TheGoldenParadox]

Anen is probably town. This frustration looks very townie.
Also being sure that people are town is a scumtell, because scum know the alignments of every person in game. Math is saying I'm locktown and implying the same for A50. While I know math tends to throw reads like obvtown and locktown around, this feels different somehow. It feels more like alignment knowledge than anything.

[TheGoldenParadox]

I'd like an updated readslist from Mutant soon.

As per all my reads lists, if you want any 1 read explained then you just have to ask.

Town:

MathDino

-0

Town Lean:

TheGoldenParadox

-0

Pinturicchio

^1

Creature

^2

I'm sorry, can you explain your read on dino? I see he gets townread a lot for just playstyle so I want to clear that up. Just like I get scumread a lot for the same.
What does the -0, ^1, ^2, and v2 mean?

Null:

jmo16mla

-0

Luca Blight

^1

northsidegal

^1

Scum Lean:

JaydragonKing

v2

Aneninen

v2

Scum:

Gamma Emerald

-0

I'd actually just like to explain my Jay read in particular. Right now they feel really forgettable. I had to ISO Jay just to see what they had even been saying over the last few pages and, honestly, 582 I feel is the last time they made a decent post. Since then it's been pure fluff and minor input. I know Jay to be quite fluffy which is why I paid no attention to it previously but now that I've realised there is barely any contribution in between the fluff which feels like Jay is really disengaged and has nothing to contribute.

[TheGoldenParadox]

sorry I put this in the wrong place
I'm sorry, can you explain your read on dino? I see he gets townread a lot for just playstyle so I want to clear that up. Just like I get scumread a lot for the same.
What does the -0, ^1, ^2, and v2 mean?

[TheGoldenParadox]

What?? Mastina IS Ranger???? I've been on this site for almost 28 months now and I never guessed it or even suspected it!!!

Brianna Ranger lmao, you can see it on her blog.

[TheGoldenParadox]

Vig, please kill jmo.

Dino, at the very start of the game, says you are not allowed to scumread me and mutant for standard scumtells. That's literally what he's doing right now.

#hypocrisy
My lynch pool is {dino, A50, anen}.

[TheGoldenParadox]

Intent to hammer.

@dino, fine. But tomorrow, no guarantees. I believe that you+A50+pintu is a very probable scumteam here based on rereading and interactions.

[TheGoldenParadox]

You think A50 and I flashwagoned pintu after pushing Aneninen all day?

holy fuck dude

indeed
TGP please think through the scumteams you're proposing a bit more

Why not?
Pedit - true true

[TheGoldenParadox]

VOTE: Aneninen

After you said scum will most likely claim jk why would a potential scum claim... jk?

Honestly I don't like this 180 sudden vote switch, dino can I have better reasoning?

Can we realize that Pin said "for now," which is actually quite scummy?

[TheGoldenParadox]

you really are completely out of the loop dude

re: claims: Scum optimal strategy is to claim jailkeeper as they're being run up so they can get the actual JK to counterclaim.
The fact that I'm saying "HEY GUYS SCUM WILL CLAIM JAILKEEPER" is actually beneficial for us, because it makes it more likely scum will do the suboptimal choice and claim VT (not outing any PRs).

re: vote switch: The whole point is that we run one person up, get a claim, then run another person up, and actually lynch them.
Pintu's getting vigged tonight. I still think he's scum. Now we need another suspect.

But you literally JUST TOLD jk not to counterclaim, so the "suboptimal" strategy, claiming VT, isn't suboptimal anymore. Why couldn't you have waited until after the claim to say this?

Can we all agree to hypothetically vig pintu tonight?

I know that if I'm a vig, I'm doing it.

Hypothetically, sure.

Can we realize that Pin said "for now," which is actually quite scummy?

I think he meant "for now" as in all he is doing 'for now' is claiming VT. I doubt he's going to come back and claim something else

true true I take that back

Also, I'd be more comfortable lynching Anen after Pintu's flip.

[TheGoldenParadox]

VOTE: Anen

[TheGoldenParadox]

Wow okay, now there's a wagon on me... 4 votes.

Gamma has perfect reasons for voting for me.
Math is eh, you've been saying I've felt off all game but you've never said why.
And A50 and Jay are sheeping yet again.

wait wait wait
A50 wasn't sheeping he just got the vote in later, he asked dino to sheep him lol
Pedit - oh I thought you were releasing the scum pt of this game and I thought it was over somehow free win

PPedit - stop ninjaing me

[TheGoldenParadox]

Ok, first of all: I am the better vig option. Sorry Gamma, but Dino is right: the stupid wagon on me was a death sentence as I'm not a PR. Town already made that mistake and there's no turning back. And yes, stupid wagon, fucking stupid wagon, because almost all the reads about me on this game were "that post from Pin looks like newb!town" or "I've seen "newb!scum playing like Pin". I subscribed to this game to play with experienced players to learn quickly and be contributive, but no matter how much effort I took (and yeah, a lot of effort using google translate almost the entire time to use the exact words I'm trying to say), no one really cared about what I had to say in this game. "You overexplain yourself" of fucking course I do, I don't speak fluent english, I'm here because of that. I really tried to be helpful, but it was impossible. Please, lynch or vig me this day, as I assume I will be more helpful being dead than alive in this game.

Pin you have to realize two things:
my first like 4 or 5 games were like that
and you're a better player than me.

Trust me even though there are experienced players here considering you a newb they're not trying to do it to be mean. You're trying, you're trying hard, and you're doing a good job. That's what matters. Don't quit or give up just because you're considered a newbie; do you really think we're ignoring your reads or being totally dismissive of everything you say just because you're new to the forums? No! We're trying to understand what you have to say, and we're trying to sort you, and we all have been newbies sometime (and I still consider myself one.)

[TheGoldenParadox]

Be sure to give us a vote count so no one accidentally hammers by the way, Dino.

you do realize that redflavor is the mod

[TheGoldenParadox]

This push against the mutant wagon feels sudden tbh

In what way? Sudden in that it came together quickly or sudden resistance to it?

I believe

Math started your wagon -

something about people not pushing your wagon when they could have, meaning you must be scum

. I don't particularly agree with this, but I think you're a good chance to flip scum for my own reasons which I covered in my ISO'ing, which I guess boils down to little content despite some big looking posts, and some dubious reasoning behind your reads. Add to that throwing the toys out of your pram after being wagoned - it's not something that I saw as a Townie reaction.

Pin - NSG started the wagon

with little or no reasoning, from what I can remember

. What generally seemed to spark it was his comment that he didn't want to vote you for fear it might risk Jay, who he's not even townreading. I've personally been very torn on Pin throughout, but now he's claimed VT he's fair game for the vig.

Mutant -

Math/A50 for some reason wanted to start this wagon up, despite already having the two wagons we required. I don't remember much reasoning, other than your reaction seemed town to Math which meant either me or Mutant could be scum

...I've personally been torn on Mutant but his recent posting seems townie.

I've highlighted some parts to show you all: instead of cases there are votes thrown at players. As for some of us, there are a lot of talk

about

us,

at

us, but rarely

with

us. You

did

ask things from me, and I asked whether you wanted answers. I don't think there was a yes for that. (If contrary, point it out, where.) I had a conversation with NSG and Gamma. That's all. All the others are sheeping each others in circles.

I'm constantly ignored. It's strange that even

you

don't remember that it was

me

who started the Mutant-case. Even the VC shows that.

That'swhy I refuse to put effort into this game. Players are voting for me, removing their votes and voting for someone else (with no case provided either), and it's happening even when I don't post anything.
(Okay, to tell the truth, I've been thinking and this situation would be just as annoying if I were scum. So I guess my attitude is not an alignment tell after all.)

However, there's an explanation for this Day1.

I'm giving

one

single example from both players I'm talking about. (I could have chosen many other posts, too.)

Guys, relax, is just a game and I get it, I'm not going anywhere. I'm having fun nevertheless; if I weren't, I would've replaced out long ago, after my first readlist. But let's keep things going: I may be dead, but I haven't lost the game as this is a team game, so go on and push another wagon. Just to be clear: I don't think this "push a wagon till getting a claim" is the best strategy at all. Also, I'm following my own reads right now and put my vote on A50, as I'm really tired of his vig softclaims that could justify his lack of content and voting for anyone who's getting pushed without explaining himself. Maybe it's a playstyle thing, but whatever.
VOTE: Almost50

EXACTLY

what I was looking for!
The vote that was parked there for a long time only to jump off the wagon when it started to build momentum.
@Jay/@Dino: Does this remind you of anything at all??

However, I am now much more confident in Pintu being Scum. I can't tell if he was parked on a partner or is trying to hop off a mislynch wagon.
I say we

lynch Pintu & Vig mutant

(so we know we've hurt scum BEFORE the night phase for sure)
VOTE: pintu

@pintu: i'll listen to your reads if i'm still alive btw

hope you don't fall into the "fuck the community for D1 lynching me" mindset tbh
the first game i played with hyper-experienced players got me D1 lynched for bullshit reasons
sometimes it's more about charisma than anything else, which can be annoying but things get better

Mathdino and Almost50 are simply everywhere, manipulating the whole game, scumreading players regardless of their posts and giving pigeon poop explanations. (Eg. the quoted post from Almost50.)
Those were mere examples.

Just check their ISOs and you'll see what I'm talking about.

Also, there's a chance that Mathdino was coaching Pinturicchio in that particular post. But my best guess is that the scumteam is Almost50, Mathdino and Mutantdevle. There's something that underpins this: the whole tunnelling against me started shortly after I started scumreading Mutantdevle. (If I'm wrong about either of them, gun-to-head read would be Jaydragon or Pinturicchio. As for the latter, see above. As for the former, she's the one who seems to sheep either Mathdino or Almost50 all the time.)

Most of the other players are simply following them. (This may be happening because of the overwhelming amount of content from Mathdino, which makes the game hardly readable. But I'm not sure whether it's true.)

At least TRY to remember this post later!

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mathdino

I'm willing to return Mutantdevle anytime or vote for Almost50 if he gets wagoned. I may lynch Pinturicchio or Jaydragon if I have to.

page bottom

update: searching for NSG tells is not going well

Okay. After this Aneninen frustration there is not a snowball's chance in hell he's scum.
UNVOTE: Aneninen
Now let me think what I can do. I fricking want to join this mutant wagon, but I don't b/c I'm not confident in him. A dino or A50 lynch is not going anywhere, even though they're quite obviously scum manipulating town. I have no idea how you guys are this blind to see it but w/e. I don't want to votepark him again because look where that went last time so I'm going to put in a humble request, because I'm sure he's not PR and I'm almost certain he's scum:

@vig: kill dino.

VOTE: mutant because there's like three and a half days left and the other wagons that have any support I'm p sure they're town.
See this is why playing town is so f*cking hard, because not only do you have to find the scum, you have to convince the f*cking other town players that you've found the scum.

pedit -ninjae'd

[TheGoldenParadox]

And Paradox and Jmo have been also null, so by your definition, they are also a valuable shot.

Da faq? I have way more posts and content than jmo and as much if not more content than you.

[TheGoldenParadox]

rolefishing me is pointless

like, as a PR i do everything i can to look like a VT

lack of knowledge of my actual role helps me in tricking scum

regardless
at the end of the day what's killing this game is relative inactivity
tbh i think aneninen/mutant/gamma/pintu wallposting all the time and then insisting on responses to their posts have been a major component of that
so that's reason enough to lynch in that group

Edit: jesus fuck dude i literally just complained about walls

i'm sorry the quotes showed up by accident the non-quote part of my post is p short

[TheGoldenParadox]

okay here.
VOTE: mathdino

paradox your reads are generally sub-random-chance

until you get to a point where you know you can be confident in your D1 reads

sometimes being town means being the town player that's convinced

vigging me is potentially the worst decision that could be made

ESPECIALLY because the vig's job is also to PR hunt, and they have no reason to know or think i'm a VT because i've given no signals either way

Dino I want you to stop pocketing, stop being condescending, and most of all stop acting like you're better than everyone else and you're a terrible d1 lynch because you're so good. Truth is, you're really not. I accept you're a good town player, but I also accept that you're not an IC here and I have no interest sheeping you, especially for someone I feel is town.

What happened between 314 and 1321? Did you start interpreting my meta differently becaue you realized you couldn't pocket me that easily this time? Please stop this bs.

[TheGoldenParadox]

paradox your reads are generally sub-random-chance

until you get to a point where you know you can be confident in your D1 reads

sometimes being town means being the town player that's convinced

vigging me is potentially the worst decision that could be made

ESPECIALLY because the vig's job is also to PR hunt, and they have no reason to know or think i'm a VT because i've given no signals either way

Then can we lynch you?

[TheGoldenParadox]

Oh my God this is literally going down hill again, and the time limit only gets worse. Paradox for all that is towny, please realize the difference between what Pintu has done and what Anen or someone like jmo have done. Keep on the course with the Anen Lynch.

Actually I just want this day finished so I get vigged and look what A50 says when D2 comes. Spoiler alert: "whatever, he was the better option"
VOTE: Aneninen

no no no frick you pintu.

Do not vig pintu, it's a bad idea, he's town. Anen is likely town. I'm not getting behind an anen lynch today, and I certainly oppose it.

[TheGoldenParadox]

Actually I just want this day finished so I get vigged and look what A50 says when D2 comes. Spoiler alert: "whatever, he was the better option"
VOTE: Aneninen

Please stop pin. I want you to contribute, so that at least if you get vigged by some idiot, we have an ic's readlist.

[TheGoldenParadox]

Oh my God this is literally going down hill again, and the time limit only gets worse. Paradox for all that is towny

I don't understand this, I and I don't agree with this logic and reasoning.

[TheGoldenParadox]

I don't see what makes Anen's frustration Townie.

I do. He's frustraed with a garbage, non-informative lynch that doesn't help anyone, and the underlying motivation behind that doesn't look like he's fighting for survival.

Just a note, I'm sorry if I get a bit aggressive for a few days; a lot of personal stuff is happening.

[TheGoldenParadox]

I'm currently thinking:

vig Anen, leave Pin alive, lynch either Mutant or jmo.

What if we lynch dino, then if he's town, vig anen, if he's scum, vig mutant or jmo.

[TheGoldenParadox]

VOTE: mathdino
...someone I feel is town.

What

Read contet, sheeping you for someone I think is town, which means I think anen is town.

Honestly I'm down for lynching anen who's not too much of a townread if that means his townflip will result in a vig on math.

[TheGoldenParadox]

holy shit i just realised NSG has a completed scumgame under her alt
factoring that into calculations

A50 i really need reads from you
somehow all the players i consider sheepable {A50, NSG, Creature} up and disappeared, leaving literally the people i'm willing to lynch

No shit, Sherlock

lmao

[TheGoldenParadox]

And compromising is fine, it's just people should be making their intent clear. Otherwise, when we ask them about it later, what's to say they aren't lying to appeal to their current situation?

Agreed.

[TheGoldenParadox]

Jay help me wagon dino?

[TheGoldenParadox]

Fuck it, I'm not following scum. A50 is pocketing Dino without even trying. Dino: "I'm starting to think that NSG could be scum. A50, what do you think?" - A50: "lynch NSG" - Dino: "Yeah, I agree". WHAT. THE ACTUAL. FUCK.
VOTE: Almost50

I 100% agree with this, Dino's interactions with A50 this game have been comical.
VOTE: A50

Pedit - A50 go dig yourself in a hole, you're scum.

[TheGoldenParadox]

And there's their third.

NSG 100% Scum
Jay 100% Scum
Mutant 80% Scum

the fck lynch this and vig dino please

unless I'm the only one that has been seeing this garbage scum

[TheGoldenParadox]

... welp.
I doubt dino is scum after this.

[TheGoldenParadox]

The claim has no point. A mafia rolecop would claim backup rolecop.

[TheGoldenParadox]

Or sorry, just VT.

[TheGoldenParadox]

HEAL: Luca Blight

...
okay my reads suck, and I suck, dino I owe you my vote.
we going jay, then? mess up his perfect scumstreak

VOTE: Jay

[TheGoldenParadox]

PARADOX PLEASE STOP BEING A VI

*lmao*
UNVOTE:

[TheGoldenParadox]

it's not lylo?

[TheGoldenParadox]

i'm pretty sure he was baiting you. kind of obvious this time though, i think.

pedit yeah

Look at page two of marked for death.

[TheGoldenParadox]

NGL it's still probably NSG by play post-bus, but I'm biased as fuck toward keeping her around for readily sheepable reads and if she's deepwolfing she can just die the day before LyLo.

That's 3 votes for vigging Anen (me, Luca, mutant). Add 2 for Mathdino proxy votes (Gamma, Paradox) and Aneninen should claim.

I'm sorry, I'm not a dino proxy vote. That was a joke, I
a) have my own reasoning for votes
b) am not going to proxy I've been SRing for most of the game

[TheGoldenParadox]

VOTE: Jay[
HURT: jmo
HEAL: dino

[TheGoldenParadox]

NGL it's still probably NSG by play post-bus, but I'm biased as fuck toward keeping her around for readily sheepable reads and if she's deepwolfing she can just die the day before LyLo.

That's 3 votes for vigging Anen (me, Luca, mutant). Add 2 for Mathdino proxy votes (Gamma, Paradox) and Aneninen should claim.

I'm sorry, I'm not a dino proxy vote. That was a joke, I
a) have my own reasoning for votes
b) am not going to proxy I've been SRing for most of the game

Why are you still SRing him, if not why aren't you willing to give your vote to him after how right he was about all the flips we've had?

Because scum know everybody's alignments, that's why I'm SLing him.

[TheGoldenParadox]

NGL it's still probably NSG by play post-bus, but I'm biased as fuck toward keeping her around for readily sheepable reads and if she's deepwolfing she can just die the day before LyLo.

That's 3 votes for vigging Anen (me, Luca, mutant). Add 2 for Mathdino proxy votes (Gamma, Paradox) and Aneninen should claim.

I'm sorry, I'm not a dino proxy vote. That was a joke, I
a) have my own reasoning for votes
b) am not going to proxy I've been SRing for most of the game

Why are you still SRing him, if not why aren't you willing to give your vote to him after how right he was about all the flips we've had?

Because scum know everybody's alignments, that's why I'm SLing him.

So you think he gave correct reads as scum on 3/11 slots?

That is accurate.

[TheGoldenParadox]

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[TheGoldenParadox]

Meh, I'm gonna come out and say it.

I'm the back-up rolecop. I don't believe my role has any power now, as even if Jay is the rolecop everyone else will be Vanilla anyway, bar the vig.

That's why I didn't want to be jailed - because it would be a waste clearing me.

Jail someone like jmo who we could do with clearing.

No, I want to vig jmo.

[TheGoldenParadox]

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[TheGoldenParadox]

da faq, how was i sofclaiming pr?

[TheGoldenParadox]

Fucking lol

HEAL: Paradox

Paradox you're gonna have to explain why you've been softclaiming power role for 2 days straight. That's a major part of why I was townreading you.

how the fu*k was I softclaiming pr?

[TheGoldenParadox]

KK.
I believed you were not a PR because you didn't have the "carrying a big stick" feel, where I've ssen quite a few PRs. I believe a dino pr would look different. I don't remember why I thought this was anti-town to explain.
I thought I was dying N1 because it looked like A50 was dropping strong vig tells, and I strongly believed he would vig me. In 1153, I realized that you were doing something that seemed antitown and so said what I said.
5) I don't want you vigged, I want you jailkept because then we can confirm you.
I gtg now, will be able to talk 4 ish.

[TheGoldenParadox]

FIRST

--Congrats!

[TheGoldenParadox]

It's... 4v2 MyLo. 1 Town Jailkeeper, 1 Backup Rolecop, and 2 VTs vs Mafia Rolecop and Mafia Goon.
Is our best strategy today to lynch Anen or Mutant and try to get a successful protection or roleblock from Gamma tonight?

[TheGoldenParadox]

Gamma who did you jail last night?

[TheGoldenParadox]

FIRST

--Congrats!

<3

[TheGoldenParadox]

KK. I am a vanilla townie.

[TheGoldenParadox]

VOTE: mutantdevle
If I accept to be lynched today, when I flip town, Gamma has one chance to block the NK. Jail mutant or anen, that's the scumteam. You have a 50% chance of stopping the kill, and it'll be lylo. It's a win from there - lynch mutant, then anen.
If you miss, then we lose.
Mutant is scum here. I'm town. I should think that is obvious considering my scum meta and my town meta.

[TheGoldenParadox]

From my POV it's either you and Anen or you and math.

[TheGoldenParadox]

From my POV, dino is town, so it's mutant/anen.

[TheGoldenParadox]

KK so you're lynching town... that's nice
honestly I'm going to make no effort to defend myself, I'm town, do as y'all please

[TheGoldenParadox]

welp gg

[TheGoldenParadox]

Also what was up with Paradox actually softclaiming PR at every opportunity?

Like, fuck, both Jay AND Paradox ALONG WITH THE ENTIRE SCUMTEAM tried to rolefish me when I explicitly didn't lie about having forgotten my role. I legitimately thought I could've been the jailkeeper near the start of the game.

I mean yeah it was a gambit but also a case of "Of course I'm going to exploit my lack of remembrance to gain unreadability".

Assuming I'd lie like that as town was faulty af

I DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW I SOFTCLAIM PR PLEASE EXPLAIN

[TheGoldenParadox]

I doubt this slot is a PR for reasons that it'd probably be anti-town to discuss

.

If you think that I would never forget if I were a PR because I seem like I have a great memory, you're dead wrong. In fact, I'm pretty sure RedFlavor only asked us to confirm our alignments, which means I never even had to type back my role.

Incorrect. I believe you are not a PR for other reasons.

This implies you're a power role yourself, making it less likely that I'm a power role.

I was telling the truth with respect to forgetting my role, so I was like "what the fuck are you using to read my role then and why are you doing it publicly".

HOT TAKE: I'm 99% dying tonight.

"I'm dying tonight" is a major PR softclaim. Have you ever been nightkilled as VT? And if the scumteam was A50/Mathdino, why would we kill you when you're an easy mislynch?

But you literally JUST TOLD jk not to counterclaim, so the "suboptimal" strategy, claiming VT, isn't suboptimal anymore. Why couldn't you have waited until after the claim to say this?

This had tinges of "I'm the jailkeeper and I'm mad about Mathdino controlling me".

Now let me think what I can do. I fricking want to join this mutant wagon, but I don't b/c I'm not confident in him. A dino or A50 lynch is not going anywhere, even though they're quite obviously scum manipulating town. I have no idea how you guys are this blind to see it but w/e. I don't want to votepark him again because look where that went last time so I'm going to put in a humble request,

because I'm sure he's not PR

and I'm almost certain he's scum:

@vig: kill dino.

no no no frick you pintu.

Do not vig pintu, it's a bad idea, he's town. Anen is likely town. I'm not getting behind an anen lynch today, and I certainly oppose it.

What if we lynch dino, then if he's town, vig anen, if he's scum, vig mutant or jmo.

"because I'm sure he's not PR"
That was very bad. Very very bad.
You basically did the PR hunting FOR the scum in the public thread. I figured you had to be PR just for this (since you knew you wouldn't get NK'd).[/quote]

I'm really sorry, I'll try to play better.
The "I'm 99% dying tonight" is because I strongly believed that A50 was vig and he'd vig me.

[TheGoldenParadox]

Thanks, I'll be sure to use that in games.

[TheGoldenParadox]

The "I'm 99% dying tonight" is because I strongly believed that A50 was vig and he'd vig me.

That's even worse! You strongly believed I was the Vig and you voted me for the lynch?? And you wonder why you get SR'd??

Let me rephrase (so as not to be misunderstood as being cheeky or bashing you): I deliberately played in a way that should have lead the likes of you (players with no extensive experience with me) to think I was indeed a PT. Townies should have backed off, and Scum should have taken the bait and shot me.

So, you -as a VT- should have never been on my wagon on D1. Never ever, since you yourself acknowledge you fell for it and actually thought I was indeed a PR!

I voted you way after I posted that, I stopped thinking you were vig.