Open 720: NOIR (GAME OVER)

[Quick]

Sup?

No self hammering in this game unless you are Scum. Hopefully we can all agree with this.

[Quick]

I have some feels on some of the players who have posted so far, but keeping those gut reads to myself for the time being.

[Quick]

Hi, Mafia Rolecop here partners...second game as scum counting with my other completed/finished game in this same account...
...who should we annihilate/kill/smash tonight...?

How fun!

VOTE: Fumuki

[Quick]

Happy Birthday to mee....

Vote- Fumuki

Let's celebrate by quick lynching claimed Scum!

[Quick]

dilly dilly!

[Quick]

Hi, Mafia Rolecop here partners...second game as scum counting with my other completed/finished game in this same account...
...who should we annihilate/kill/smash tonight...?

How fun!

VOTE: Fumuki

wtf

why are you voting me Quick...?

That's not how we planned in the chat...

You were not supposed to post that here.

[Quick]

Korina is Town, just thought I would share that with you all.

[Quick]

Korina is Town, just thought I would share that with you all.

No,no,no. You're town.

Why am I Town?

[Quick]

[quote="In post 63, Fumuk

Why am I Town?

Uh...can I take it as you discretely saying something like.... "STOP FLUFFLYPOSTING your LITTLESHIT. My MERCILESS LYNCHING-FINGERS are getting UPSET already"

?[/quote]

That's weird, I don't remember saying anything even remotely like that.

[Quick]

Why am I Town?

Uh...can I take it as you discretely saying something like.... "STOP FLUFFLYPOSTING your LITTLESHIT. My MERCILESS LYNCHING-FINGERS are getting UPSET already"

?

What I said before, only here.

[Quick]

Korina is Town, just thought I would share that with you all.

Wut

I have my reasons. Actually, it's pretty simple. Your first game on site you played a "reasonable" game. Here, you are all over the map and don't have a care in the world. I don't think you can change your Scum meta that quickly, hence, you are Town.

[Quick]

Korina is Town, just thought I would share that with you all.

Wut

I have my reasons. Actually, it's pretty simple. Your first game on site you played a "reasonable" game. Here, you are all over the map and don't have a care in the world. I don't think you can change your Scum meta that quickly, hence, you are Town.

Is that also a reaction test?
And is me not taking my adhd meds actually good for once?

Stay on your meds, but thanks for the laugh.

[Quick]

I hope it comes soon. I prefer it to town claiming scum. =/

IDEK how to respond to this >:o

[Quick]

Quick how confident does that make you in your Korina read?



Ayy Sando I just noticed you're Aussie, me too!

Pretty confident. Not going to put a percentage on it, but unless I see a big change in Korina's game after they are on their meds, I'm prolly not voting them without a damn good case.

[Quick]

Given the role confidence plays in a social game are you sure tonereading a newbie based on their first scum game is wise?

(if it wasnt their first game and I misremembered I apologise)

Yes! It's not entirely based on tone either. It's based on their overall approach and transparency.

[Quick]

@mutantdevle Where did Quick claim scum?

Spoiler: here

Hi, Mafia Rolecop here partners...second game as scum counting with my other completed/finished game in this same account...
...who should we annihilate/kill/smash tonight...?

How fun!

VOTE: Fumuki

wtf

why are you voting me Quick...?

That's not how we planned in the chat...

You were not supposed to post that here.

He's joining in the "we aren't supposed to be revealing this" roleplay as scum. This stuff isn't anything worth lynching these 4 over alone imo but it's kinda scummy and will possibly make me view these 4 people's future posts in a harsher light (obviously some more so than other's due to how much of it each person posted).

That was not a Scum claim by me. That was a reaction test where I wanted to see how Fumuki would react because I actually felt like they very well could have been posting that in the wrong chat and that it wasn't just a joke. I wanted to see how Fumuki would take my comment because as seen in this game, it could have been taken two different ways, and this is intended. Fumiki took it in the way that I was NOT joking. This to me tells me they are riddled with a guilty conscience because they didn't just brush it off.

This was their reaction:

Hi, Mafia Rolecop here partners...second game as scum counting with my other completed/finished game in this same account...
...who should we annihilate/kill/smash tonight...?

How fun!

VOTE: Fumuki

wtf

why are you voting me Quick...?

That's not how we planned in the chat...

You were not supposed to post that here.

I thought the plan was to bus me, so you guys look townie!
Do any of us even remember

what

the plan was?

Wasn't it to scumslip, make it a joke and call anyone pointing it out scummy...?

holy...shit...

wrong chat again...

Based on this I see no reason to unvote fumuki.

[Quick]

Also, the attached quotes have nothing to do with Quick seeming to know Mafia have a daychat, I just realized that.
138 is the post that is suggesting that to me:

That was not a Scum claim by me. That was a reaction test where I wanted to see how Fumuki would react because

I actually felt like they very well could have been posting that in the wrong chat and that it wasn't just a joke

. I wanted to see how Fumuki would take my comment because as seen in this game, it could have been taken two different ways, and this is intended. Fumiki took it in the way that I was NOT joking. This to me tells me they are riddled with a guilty conscience because they didn't just brush it off.

Fixed, because I was mobile posting while making that post.

P-Edit: Oh, nvm, I'm an idiot then. I missed that.

VOTE: Quick

Why are you voting me?

[Quick]

Few reasons:
1) It seems like you were implying that you knew mafia had daychat, which isn’t true, but it still feels like a really awkward post tome.
2) The bolded part makes no sense in the context of mafia having no daychat, which brings up more questions, (namely the meaning behing the push)
3) The entire post just feels off to me.

Two of these reasons are the same. To address those, I will say if I implied I thought Mafia had day chat (which isn't necessarily what I am implying because Fumuki could still be posting what they posted as Scum who themselves doesn't know Scum don't have day chat) why would this mean I am Scum? It seemed like you were trying to figure out if I slipped that Scum had Day Chat or not. Once it was revealed I didn't slip that, you STILL voted me. That doesn't make sense. But I guess that makes you Town for not knowing whether Scum had day chat or not.

[Quick]

The reason why I voted you after it got confirmed was my second reason.
The bolded part feels

really

weird and just doesn’t make sense in its context.

I also like it when my question gets ignored.
What do you mean by the bolded part?

Something feeling "weird" is not a legitimate reason for SRing someone.

The bold part means what it says.

[Quick]

So imagine that you're scum, and there's people talking about policy lynch because everyone loves to talk about policy lynching scum claims just as I like shitposting.

If you play scum trying to be neutral/get in the crowd, you probably would not be bold to vote them, however, would try to imply that maybe it's not such a bad thing to lynch them. Then afterwards Iconeum gives me the third vote he suddenly starts casting a little shade around those that joked with scumclaims and even puts a list with people that "scumclaimed", saying that although don't want to policy lynch me now, a policy lynch tomorrow seems like a good option...

Not only that, all his other posts are talking about how that's scummy and even tries to reply a obvious shitpost with a serious analyze...

Caught scum. Proceed to lynching/annihilation.

Nice miss repping here.

My talk of policy lynching you has

nothing

to do with your RVS scum claim. The talk around policy lynching you was about how almost every post you write is a shitpost. You can't honestly expect to write a load of crap as your posts and expect people not to consider lynching you for it?

If we are going to policy lynch you, and I never said we definitely should, it's fundamentally a better idea to lynch you day 2 if that's what we want to do. We shouldn't lynch you day 1 because we don't know whether the vig or tracker exists yet. If a vig does exist, it is in their best interest to eliminate the misslynches instead of trying to pick off their own scum reads. Fun fact, as a shit poster, scum are going to try and push your lynch. That makes you mislynchable (assuming you are town) - that's another reason why we probably shouldn't policy lynch you day 1.

Once night 2 has passed, we will know if we have a vig. The vig doesn't necessarily have to kill you night 1, because just the security of having a vig lets us know that we can have you removed from the game if you become too much of a liability. However, if we don't have a vig, then if we are ever going to lynch you during this game, it will have to be day 2. Again, we don't have to lynch you then, but if we ever want you dead during the game, that's when we have to do it. Any later than that and it will be too risky policy lynching instead of scum lynching (unless, of course, we have 1 or 2 scum nailed by then).


I replied to your shit post in an analytical way because I began to think it was serious. You asked people to look at it twice since making the post so it kinda looked like you genuinely wanted us to check it out. It would help if your shitposts were funny and not just random nonsense. As the worst said, if you want to shitpost, pay attention to how Not_Mafia does it. He is genuinely entertaining but still able to take the game seriously. Sometimes he can also be a lylo liability and worthy of a policy lynch but other times he can be a great addition to the town - I've seen him in both situations.

This posts strikes me as a kind of post Scum make. It focuses too much on things not really pertaining to the game and is very wordy without really saying much.

[Quick]

How strong is your devle townread?

Not strong, and it's basically because I think the 100% opposite of what Quick just wrote. That post from mutant struck me as townie as hell, the reason I'm not stronger townreading is due to previous tryhard in RVS stage as mentioned when I voted Quick.

Your reason for voting me is pretty weak. You're trying to say that it's Scummy of me that I didn't want to explain my TRs on people when I said I had some gut TRs on 2/3 of the first posters (Korina being one of them that developed into a stronger read) That I explicitly said I didn't want to explain.

[Quick]

So my view on mutants 149 is that it's a big over-reaction but that he's ostensibly right. For both of those reasons I give him townpoints.

a) He's aggressive but over-reacting, this is a hard thing for scum to pull off sincerely.
b) I think he's genuine about why he wants to policy lynch and he's also right that Fumu is posting a load of shit.
c) He's pissed, which is a townie thing to do, scum would not be frustrated with Fumu!town, they'd be a bit confused and standoffish, they're not going to get involved like mutant did in the way that he did.

Having said all that, it's an over-reaction from mutant and his points are largely overblown by him, ie I don't really like his case, but I think he's townie.

Also, @mutant, stop PR hunting and theorising, that's another policy lynch subject day 1.

I think this post is "ostensibly" wrong at every turn. According to your logic I should be SRing you for that, since for some reason being ostensibly right is somehow AI as Town.

[Quick]

VOTE: mutantdevle

[Quick]

I feel a lot better on Fumuki after their last couple posts. Given what they have posted as serious posts so far, I believe this is evidence that they are not a poor enough player to mistake posting in the game thread what they meant to post in Scum chat.

[Quick]

I think this post is "ostensibly" wrong at every turn. According to your logic I should be SRing you for that, since for some reason being ostensibly right is somehow AI as Town.

Yeah sure, go for it, have fun with that while you ignore my post actually directed at you.

I think this post is "ostensibly" wrong at every turn. According to your logic I should be SRing you for that, since for some reason being ostensibly right is somehow AI as Town.

Also if the most you've gotten out of my discussion with the worst about you and mutant is "Sando says ostensibly right is town AI"...you're not making much of an effort.

M8, you need to get outside of this site. Your methods for reading people are horribly outdated.

[Quick]

I think this post is "ostensibly" wrong at every turn. According to your logic I should be SRing you for that, since for some reason being ostensibly right is somehow AI as Town.

Yeah sure, go for it, have fun with that while you ignore my post actually directed at you.

Very well.

So my view on mutants 149 is that it's a big over-reaction

Where be this overreaction? All I saw was them going into detail about their thought process, which as I pointed out earlier, is NOT indicative of Town alignment considering it has very little to do with:

1. Giving and actual read on a player AND
   
2. Somehow forwarding the game to meaningful content that can produce a read on a player at some point

but that he's ostensibly right.

Except it's not? Here's how I see it:

Nice miss repping here.

I see the word "misrep" getting thrown around a lot from people who are Scum, fwiw.

If your reason for policy lynching has nothing to do with my scum claims, I don't even have much shitpost. Good part of it is EXACTLY scum claiming.

If anyone is ostensibly correct here, it's more Fumuki than mutant as seen in response here:

My talk of policy lynching you has

nothing

to do with your RVS scum claim. The talk around policy lynching you was about how almost every post you write is a shitpost. You can't honestly expect to write a load of crap as your posts and expect people not to consider lynching you for it?

I consider that RVS definitely ended in #59 with Quick saying (Why am I town) abruptly and even though Quick maybe thinks it was not abrupt and could be considered a joke, even ceejayvinoya said "seems like we are getting out of RVS stage", because it really seemed like Quick told me "stop it" indirectly. From that point on I was discussing too about Korina behavior and what we should look into in RVS.

If we are going to policy lynch you, and I never said we definitely should, it's fundamentally a better idea to lynch you day 2 if that's what we want to do. We shouldn't lynch you day 1 because we don't know whether the vig or tracker exists yet. If a vig does exist, it is in their best interest to eliminate the misslynches instead of trying to pick off their own scum reads. Fun fact, as a shit poster, scum are going to try and push your lynch. That makes you mislynchable (assuming you are town) - that's another reason why we probably shouldn't policy lynch you day 1.

Once night 2 has passed, we will know if we have a vig. The vig doesn't necessarily have to kill you night 1, because just the security of having a vig lets us know that we can have you removed from the game if you become too much of a liability. However, if we don't have a vig, then if we are ever going to lynch you during this game, it will have to be day 2. Again, we don't have to lynch you then, but if we ever want you dead during the game, that's when we have to do it. Any later than that and it will be too risky policy lynching instead of scum lynching (unless, of course, we have 1 or 2 scum nailed by then).

Few things wrong with this:

1. In the absence of not knowing if we have a vig or not, we should act as though we do NOT have a vig. So what is ostensibly right about this exactly?
   
2. All I see here is deliberating on what is the correct play to make when considering PLs which is wrong in the first place from my PoV. My experience shows that PL's pretty much NEVER happen on D2+. If there is going to be a PL, it should most definitely be on D1. The reason for this is that Town pretty much never acts like a cohesive unit of synergy which makes getting Town to agree to PL someone past D1 pretty much impossible considering how much more organization it takes to get a PL off D2+.
   
3. This is what I was talking about in being really wordy without really saying anything that is going to lead to a read one way or another. I mean, it may be some pretty analysis (that is wrong) but beyond that it doesn't really lead to any kind of read on anyone except mutant for being Scummy for making a post that has a lot of words that says pretty much nothing.

I replied to your shit post in an analytical way because I began to think it was serious. You asked people to look at it twice since making the post so it kinda looked like you genuinely wanted us to check it out. It would help if your shitposts were funny and not just random nonsense. As the worst said, if you want to shitpost, pay attention to how Not_Mafia does it. He is genuinely entertaining but still able to take the game seriously. Sometimes he can also be a lylo liability and worthy of a policy lynch but other times he can be a great addition to the town - I've seen him in both situations.

What I am seeing is that Fumuki's shit posts actually gave us a lot to work with in terms of content which is WAY more than what you can say about NM (whom I would be down for a PL on btw). Why? Because it lead to me questioning Fumuki's motivation for their shit post which lead to others also analyzing Fumuki's shit posts to see what they thought about them as per example of the post I am quoting from mutant here. And it is kinda Scummy that as soon as I jump on Fumuki for shit posting that mutant also decides that they have a problem with it as well. Seems a bit opportunistic IMO.

For both of those reasons I give him townpoints.

a) He's aggressive but over-reacting, this is a hard thing for scum to pull off sincerely.

Sorry M8 but overreactions more often come from Scum who don't know how to handle things. Town in general don't care so much about such petty things because they don't get in the way of Scumhunting. Also, I see pretty much zero reason for mutant to be pissed in this spot about anything, so if they are pissed it makes no sense to me at all.

b) I think he's genuine about why he wants to policy lynch and he's also right that Fumu is posting a load of shit.

Except IIRC, mutant wasn't saying they wanted to PL Fumuki, so this is ostensibly wrong.

c) He's pissed, which is a townie thing to do, scum would not be frustrated with Fumu!town, they'd be a bit confused and standoffish, they're not going to get involved like mutant did in the way that he did.

I see exactly zero evidence to suggest that mutant is "pissed." In fact, I'd say they are coming across as quite calm. I didn't see any strong language or words that are tip offs that they are upset at all.

Having said all that, it's an over-reaction from mutant and his points are largely overblown by him, ie I don't really like his case, but I think he's townie.

If you think that is an overreaction I have no idea what game you think you are reading, but it's not this one.

Also, @mutant, stop PR hunting and theorising, that's another policy lynch subject day 1.

Yeah, let's not talk about PLing someone unless we are talking about NM.

[Quick]

@Mutantdevle,

Were you pissed when you made that post or not?

[Quick]

Whats with all this hate on Not_Mafia? Someone tell me pleaseee

He never explains anything and 90% of his game is naked voting.

[Quick]

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Let's do it!

[Quick]

Quick is town

Here's your chance to almost instantly get me to vote elsewhere:

Why am I Town?

[Quick]

Quick is town

Here's your chance to almost instantly get me to vote elsewhere:

Why am I Town?

What if I don't care about where your vote is?

Well, here's another way of putting it:

If you don't explain yourself, I am going to push you as a PL. Do you want that? If you don't, please just answer the damn question.

[Quick]

Many words

I read every word of this.

What were you hoping to achieve with this post?

Good question. I want to see how they react.

[Quick]

Strong town read

fumuki-I know he claimed scum, but this guy is obv!town.

I think you are judging them far too quickly. This is a player who has a lot of Skill and I would not just presume they are Town.

town reads

(less light, not strong)
vivi - reasons

Oh a person I didn't know was playing, how nice.

town lean

Alonzo - no change

I have no idea how you have this read on them.

korina - I was getting comfortable with a town read but then 208 happened

I would put this a lot higher, but you do you.

sando - He and I independently arrived at the same conclusion about mutantdevle, at least until Sando did the meta read through). I like a lot of his thought processes, even though I don't actually agree with some (most?) of his conclusions. This is difference in opinion on what is/isn't alignment indicative.

He's an ultra vet and you are judging him way WAY too quickly.

null

mutantdevle - I'm townleaning this conditional on him having played 0 games with fumuki and conditional on me reading that game that got linked of his.

OK, so based on these "conditions" how would you read them?

the worst - He's really helpful. Not so sure about the scumhunting.

Good point on the Scum hunting here, but they seem to have pretty believable thought process.

Quick - I kind of want to say he really did town slip, but ehh there will be better things to build a read on.

I don't mind this.

[Quick]

p.edit @sordicchio How did I know you would go there with your first? Am I starting to think like you???? Why is Quick a good pocket?

Tinfoil hat is a way of life, yo.

About Quick, he's loud. These are the best players to pocket, for they are hard to mislynch from scum perspective, and they can push mislynches for you and get away with it. So if Duck/NM are scum, they will give him an early townread (both of them have done this) and try to do some inception shit on him so he goes to the wrong directions

M8, it sounds like you know I am Town here. I'm half tempted to jump off NM just for this!

[Quick]

OK, so based on these "conditions" how would you read them

0 games with fumuki plus I don't find a meta reason to scumread, and I would town lean him. (like i said in the line about him)

That is what I am asking...

If mutantdevle has 0 games with Fumuki, what does that mean about them? Why? Sorry if this was already answered.

[Quick]

@quick origin of my mutantdevle read:

Spoiler:

I need to ask again why no one is voting ceejayvinoya based on my theory....

Like...it would be the best lynching option...

Is this serious? I'm not sure if I'm blatantly missing your theory here but I ISO'd you and this is the best I could find:

Username specifically made to no one vote him.

Game solved guys, proceed to lynching.

VOTE: ceejayvinoya

In a side note, Happy Birthday Alonzo.

I'm assuming this is you still joking because trying to suggest that someone is scum because of a username they chose before they got their role card is just ridiculous.

Sorry you two, I disagree, but one thing occurred to me: mutant's reaction is not that of someone who's played with Fumuki before, if he has then I'd say he's probably setting it up as a mislynch. That said, if he hasn't, this strikes me as a townie respond.

Played with = scum
Not played with = town

I haven't had coffee yet and been picking up after my new puppy since 7...I'll investigate my above later today.

I love the thinking behind this. I also agree. I can't wait to hear more!

As either alignment, mutantdevle looked for that post by fumaki and was then annoyed when he found it was a troll post. If he had played with fumaki, that was scummy because he should have expected the troll. If he's scum, he realizes it's a troll because he knows fumaki is town. He doesn't get frustrated like that. So if he as never played with him, he is either town, or superb at hitting the right notes.

I think Sando is adding extra context to that read because he can because he has the experience to pull something like that. Don't know if it is genuine or not yet.

I think, in light of seeing Fumuki's trolly nature, Mutantdevle looks bad here because the reaction looks kinda fake. Why does it look fake? Because mutants response is OTT and over dramatized. I barely saw that post by Fumuki the first time around... it must have gone through my brain and been filtered as "not important" so why mutant is doing this "ohr meh gosh, I can'tz believe this!" is kinda silly. So either mutant is the type that misinterprets things frequently or they are just Scum. Should be apparent soon enough.

[Quick]

He's an ultra vet and you are judging him way WAY too quickly.

You may want to dig into my past a wee bit deeper than the little date next to my name. My last game before this year was back in 2012, there's a reason I've got a very old join date and no-one knows me.

Also I'm a very easy town read, you're just desperate not to read me that way.

On the N_M policy lynch, so I'm semi-serious on the N_M / mutant team due to (lack of) interactions despite previously linked game. Despite N_M being null, I'm tossing up whether lynching N_M today is useful given decent chance he gets policied anyway and we get info on mutant, or vice versa, mutant flip gives us at least something non-troll on N_M.

Don't mix PL and reads. Either PL or don't. Don't mix the two.

[Quick]

@Sando, Why didn't you address 211?

[Quick]

I would put this a lot higher, but you do you.

Hmm, could you explain why you'd town read him (Korina)? I currently have him as a slight scum lean but I don't see him any higher than a null tbh.

I'll ISO him again when I post my reads list but from my own recollection I don't see him as town (though maybe I'm thinking too much about the RVS?).

It's pretty simple and I already explained it. Korina is NOT playing like they are watching what they are doing carefully. They are actually playing the opposite way. They are playing incredibly careless and carefree and I think these are big time Town tells in general, but especially for him.

I think, in light of seeing Fumuki's trolly nature,

Mutantdevle looks bad here because the reaction looks kinda fake. Why does it look fake? Because mutants response is OTT and over dramatized.

I barely saw that post by Fumuki the first time around... it must have gone through my brain and been filtered as "not important" so why mutant is doing this "ohr meh gosh, I can'tz believe this!" is kinda silly. So either mutant is the type that misinterprets things frequently or they are just Scum. Should be apparent soon enough.

Bolded: umm... what happened to you saying you didn't think I was pissed off and that I was calm earlier? How do you go from thinking that to suddenly agreeing that what I said about Fumuki? Not sure if I missed anything but I don't see that progression anywhere.

And obviously, I'd be paying more attention to something he said about me than you would. Also, when did I say anything remotely like "ohr meh gosh, I can'tz believe this!". All I did was correct him, throw a bit of shade, and then things escalated from there.

Actually, I am feeling a lot better about you recently. I think you are right to question me on this. There is an explanation, however, which is that I don't think overreaction and over dramatization are the same thing. And overreaction impies an emotional state of being, which as I said, I didn't see from you based on you word choice, BUT I can see it as "stirring up things" with dramatic topics that can end up dominating the thread. So the difference is in presentation. I can see you didn't use strong language, but you did bring up a topic that people are probably going to feel strongly about. Does that make sense?

[Quick]

Town:
Oxy

I'd like some more detail on this, if you wouldn't mind.
otherwise your reads make sense

Well, I don't understand why anyone wouldn't be town reading him tbh. He is actively game solving, laying out his thought process and generally doing everything a townie needs to do. I find him very agreeable and I can follow his logic in how he's reaching different conclusions. The only complaint I could possibly have about him is that he's a little distant in that he's not getting too involved but still present.

May I ask what makes you think he's scummy? Because I really don't see it. (I'm assuming you think he's scummy since you said there's 1 scum between him and Pintu).

Yeah, I get this read. I am not as confident that Oxy is Town as you are, but I get what you are saying. The little condition without really bringing attention to it also strikes me as something Town would do. This is completely different than being obvious about saying "I will read they as X given Y" It just given more open thought process about how you are reading the player and I think this is a pretty good indicator that you are Town.

[Quick]

Slight change in tone from Korina is noted.

[Quick]

Why CJ?

I'm looking at it that you should justify CJ into town, all I'm saying is he hasn't earned town-status for today imo, not that he's scummy.

Why is CJ Town?

[Quick]

@quick reasons

IDK what you are addressing.

[Quick]

Why is CJ Town?

sorry for ambiguity =)

Wasn't asking you???

[Quick]

Wasn't asking you???

The answer, while directed at you, wasn't actually meant for you either. ;P

Carry on than.

[Quick]

I'll give you my nulls:

NM (but would def PL)
the worst
Sando
Fumuki
Oxy
Spartan
Korina (read pending)

[Quick]

Is that in any particular order?

Just based on what came to me when.

[Quick]

I'm charismatic? ^_^ thankyou!

Not actively coaching someone I'm starting to scumread though, I'm sorry. If you're town show me your townie gamesolving mindset!

I hate being condescending but I am curious to see your stance. You strike me as a generally clever individual. What do you define as concern vs. topic?


pedit: and another one pls

They gave a reads list with explanations, you are being unreasonable.

[Quick]

Another concern I have is that you don't seem to find it easy to talk to your townreads. You've made no effort to reach out to Fumuki/Sando/Korina to discuss the goings on of the game and yet you reached out to our favourite Renaissance artist? It's just very strange unconscious behaviour.

I disagree.

[Quick]

I'd vote someone else, but I like where my vote is at least until I get an answer from NM.

[Quick]

Also dis:

c) I'm assuming a halfway decent ability to bullshit in your average scum.

So what you're effectively saying is that it's just as easy for a halfway decent scum to wind-back their strong town-read as it is to wind back their weak town-reads?

Uh, no, I don't think he is saying anything even close to that?

[Quick]

I'm feeling pretty good about the way Oxy is handling the pressure.

[Quick]

I'm willing to put Vivi as tentative Town right now. Same probably goes for Oxy.

[Quick]

This is the scummiest thing in the game so far.

the worst says I'm scum because I engaged Pinturicchio in conversation rather than my town reads

I point out I engaged with him because he is the only person in the thread I have spoken with before the start of the game, and that I've also engaged my town reads.

the worst says I'm scum because I don't have an arbitrary number of strong reads

This is just bad.

Actual scummy part: Has no interest in continuing to engage once I begin arguing in what is probably a tvt.

VOTE: the worst

I know this is an OMGUS, but... I don't hate this vote???

[Quick]

This is the scummiest thing in the game so far.

the worst says I'm scum because I engaged Pinturicchio in conversation rather than my town reads

I point out I engaged with him because he is the only person in the thread I have spoken with before the start of the game, and that I've also engaged my town reads.

the worst says I'm scum because I don't have an arbitrary number of strong reads

This is just bad.

Actual scummy part: Has no interest in continuing to engage once I begin arguing in what is probably a tvt.

VOTE: the worst

I know this is an OMGUS, but... I don't hate this vote???

I think OMGUS is more likely to come from town who feels badly treated so ya same

You get points for this post.

[Quick]

I also kinda like that Oxy gave a reads list with only TRs. Funny enough, given I have been keeping track of my reads in my reads lists and seeing how accurate I was, I will say giving only Town/Null reads has crossed my mind a lot lately.

[Quick]

I also kinda like that Oxy gave a reads list with only TRs. Funny enough, given I have been keeping track of my reads in my reads lists and seeing how accurate I was, I will say giving only Town/Null reads has crossed my mind a lot lately.

I know its not game related particularly but you strike me as super cool. So I'm intrigued. Does avoiding voicing scumreads advance the gamestate as well as pushing ''scummy'' players in your experience?

Early game PoE seems deadly

Completely selfish reasons which is that my TRs are a lot more accurate than my SRs D1. D2+ the gloves are off though. So the motivation for me giving a readslist at this point is to try and give as accurate reads as possible so I don't look like a fool when I document my reads in my wiki. And ofc this helps other people trust my reads more D1 (if I am Town) so it's really a win win for my win con.

And thanks! You're not so bad yourself.

P-Edit: really glad you brought that us Vivi. NM needs to get their ass in here and explain themself.

[Quick]

@Oxy If I'm reading you right you were trying to get other people's opinions on your null reads earlier?

Sure - do you have any you would like to share?

Nothing much except what I said on duckling earlier. What do you think of duckling's post #482?

What do you think of it?

I wanted to see his response to you calling him inexperienced.

Indeed.

[Quick]

Haven't been in enough games yet to know my overall accuracy.......yikes

Well, I have 101 games on record discounting hydra games and games that aren't really mafia so I am guessing have quite a bit of experience on you. You will get there. The super cool part is when you start to figure things out that are specific to you (which comes first) and then learning what is true for the game in general.

[Quick]

Ah, what are your thoughts on it?
I'm inexperienced too just like sharing ideas

Sorry to be more specific

Have I not realised he's an alt of someone? Or did that come across as rude?

Oxy reminds me of this guy who a year or so ago said he had been here for 8 years. Def not a hard read there or anything but he certainly plays like he knows his way around a Mafia game. That said, I can also see him as someone who because they are quite logical, comes across as having more experience than they really do.

I think you're alright considering if that was "rude" or not. This game gets pretty heated at times.. if he has experience he knows this and so he prolly isn't going to feel too bad about it.

[Quick]

Haven't been in enough games yet to know my overall accuracy.......yikes

Well, I have 101 games on record discounting hydra games and games that aren't really mafia so I am guessing have quite a bit of experience on you. You will get there. The super cool part is when you start to figure things out that are specific to you (which comes first) and then learning what is true for the game in general.

Holy crap that's an impressive record. o_0 I'm starting to get a pretty good feel for my meta overall I think. it's a start.

Yeah, I think some people have more Newbie games played than I have total, so it's all relative.

[Quick]

I'm feeling pretty good about the way Oxy is handling the pressure.

Ignore the pressure from me and duckling for a second, what's the town motivation for the desire to go after someone's town-read like Oxy did?

I think it's harder to answer what the Scum motivation for doing that is, honestly. When players go against the grain, that is more often than not a sign that they are Town.

[Quick]

Ah, what are your thoughts on it?
I'm inexperienced too just like sharing ideas

You all did alright. I was expecting a lot of name calling and "noooo, youuu suck because so and so". Sooo some more townlean points I guess?

This post made me think about how there was a distinct lack of hostility between the worst, Sando and Oxy. Usually, these kinds of arguments can get quite heated and, whilst there was some frustration with each other, this argument remained calm. Now, this could just be because they are all calm people in general, but I'm taking it as further evidence that this was T&TvT.

TvT arguments are usually the OPPOSITE of what you are saying. Town usually gets pissed at each other.

[Quick]

I've got some trouble figuring out my town reads this game, so



I'm opening applications for my town core right now.
Anyone can apply, all you have to do is say you want in the town core.

It's as simple as that.

Fixed broken image tag. - Math

I don't need your permission to join the Town block, I already am on the Town block.

[Quick]

Also, Pin vs mutant is probably TvT.

[Quick]

Taking Questions for an hour or two before bed.

You got a read on Sando?

[Quick]

Also, Pin vs mutant is probably TvT.

How did you reach that?

Their general attitude towards each other shows intent and not just the SvS kind. It reads like they are fighting each other earnestly and that most often comes from TvT.

[Quick]

Also, Pin vs mutant is probably TvT.

How did you reach that?

Their general attitude towards each other shows intent and not just the SvS kind. It reads like they are fighting each other earnestly and that most often comes from TvT.

Idk I could see this as comig from TvS just as easily

Who would be Scum in that situation? Little known fact is that SvT reads are the most difficult to spot and are wrong a huge majority of the time.

[Quick]

What the hell happened here. Like 10 pages to read at 6 in the morning, not fun. But I did, and Oxy vs Sando vs the worst is great content, don't miss it even if it's hard to read.

I currently have Pintu as a scum lean and, as I explained earlier, I don't know why. He just feels off this game, like his posts are pinging me but I really can't put my finger on why.

Tell me ONE thing that pings you that makes sense and I'll give you a pass, but you played scum with me and saying "I don't know why" and "he feels off this game" is absolutely nothing, just trying to put me in the top of mind of people with no explanation.

Mutant is scum, easy peasy Lemon Squeezy

Boi, I have literally been saying I don't know why and then here you come along and ask why. Cheap shot though not unexpected. It's not necessarily any posts in particular it's just you in general. You don't feel like you.

I just ISO'd you, and you're actually quite fluffy this game. I think that's what it is. You were never like that before. It feels like you care a lot less this game and as though you're not really trying.

I do feel like me. I always start with fluffy posts, either as town or scum. Almost all my finished games are games I replaced in, so I didn't have the chance to be on an RVS phase and troll around a little. The only game I've started and I haven't done this is the game we where scum together, and that's because that was my first scum game in this site and I was baffled with pro players like Dino (hi Dino <3), and the RVS there was a lot shorter than here. So you saying "you don't feel like you" when the only game we have finished together is a game where we were scum together pings me.

Want to know the scum metaread I have on you? You overexplain when you're scum. You don't feel the need to do that when you're town because your reads are almost always gutreads so you can't explain them very well, but when you start overexplaining that, there's a scumtell.

VOTE: mutant

the only game we have finished together is a game where we were scum together

Want to know the scum metaread I have on you? You overexplain when you're scum. You don't feel the need to do that when you're town because your reads are almost always gutreads so you can't explain them very well, but when you start overexplaining that, there's a scumtell.

the only game we have finished together is a game where we were scum together

You don't feel the need to do that when you're town because your reads are almost always gutreads so you can't explain them very well, but when you start overexplaining that, there's a scumtell.

the only game we have finished together is a game where we were scum together

You don't feel the need to do that when you're town

the only game we have finished together is a game where we were scum together

So umm, how are you claiming to know what I do when I'm town? I think I just dismantled your case on me with your own words.

And for the record, my reads are NOT almost always gut reads. I rarely listen to my gut reads even though they are usually more accurate than my standard reads. Also, fun fact, my read on you right now is a gut read... and I've been struggling to explain it... so technically, you're describing my scum lean on you as a town!me action.

As for you defensive point about the fluff, I'll have to check your meta for that since, like you said, there was no fluff from you in our scum game. Taking that into account, you still feel odd though. And I don't like the way you've reacted to me pointing out I'm feeling pinged by you. I'm not even voting for you yet you have got so defensive over my comments of you and tried to twist my words into a case on me.

Yeah, this strikes me as really obvious TvT or shitty distancing SvS.

[Quick]

And I will say that mutant came out smelling like a rose.

[Quick]

Just re reading his ISO, Couldn't find any serious townposts, and considering we dropped a good townie due to the sheer amount of reading in this behemoth, Its obvious to me The worst is scum trying to look busy. But hes overdone it IMO and wouldn't be so agreeable and friendly as town.

If duckling is Scum here, you're probably dead tonight, you realize that I am sure.

[Quick]

Just re reading his ISO, Couldn't find any serious townposts, and considering we dropped a good townie due to the sheer amount of reading in this behemoth, Its obvious to me The worst is scum trying to look busy. But hes overdone it IMO and wouldn't be so agreeable and friendly as town.

If duckling is Scum here, you're probably dead tonight, you realize that I am sure.

what on earth possessed you to post this

Nervous?

[Quick]

VOTE: the worst

[Quick]

VOTE: the worst

whats the count?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Quick]

Pretty sure duckling is Scum here. I just voted them to see their reaction. Given they went on a sporadic spontaneous posting spree that has little to do with the Sus on them, I think this shows they are Scum.

That said, I almost thing I have enough on NM for a SR as well as a PL so I am going back there. But more votes on the worst is welcomed. I just have to vote NM for the principle of it.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Quick]

Quick I'm only responding to this because I'm townreading the shit out of you

what would you expect town!me to react with given my activity this game?

Def not act like something is happening. I would expect you to pretty much ignore my naked vote on you rather than start posting about basically nothing in a very nervous stream of consciousness way.

[Quick]

Against the background of these posts is the Mutant/Sandro/Worst interactions. There are a few who are running away in the post cout that i need to analyse further, but i think (and others have seen it too)

there some AI reads coming from one player in particular there.

I'm assuming this means the worst now that you're on him. What's the AI reads from the one player in particular here?

Of the top 4

Top 4 what?

When its appropriate to , yes

Why is it appropriate here, specifically why is it appropriate not to read the game?

Are you trying to get the topic off duckling by any chance? It's pretty obvious what Alonzo was doing if you bothered to read one of the very few posts he made.

[Quick]

[Quick]

I predict that the thread is going to explode with content by this time tomorrow.

[Quick]

@Quick - That post is also why your 582 is weak.

Okay, cool, so you refused to psychoanalyse people based on motivation and are just going to stick to "the facts." Good luck with that.

[Quick]

Pretty sure duckling is Scum here. I just voted them to see their reaction. Given they went on a sporadic spontaneous posting spree that has little to do with the Sus on them, I think this shows they are Scum.

That said, I almost thing I have enough on NM for a SR as well as a PL so I am going back there. But more votes on the worst is welcomed. I just have to vote NM for the principle of it.

VOTE: Not_Mafia

I'd like to see what you have on NM when you're ready.

Unfortunately it's not dependent on me when I can discuss this, but up to NM.

[Quick]

Someone digest Alonzo's posts for me pleaseee

I can do it, but I don't feel like it. Some of the points are "meh" while others tend to strike home pretty well. In other words, it's a Town making a decent case on Scum.

[Quick]

OK, at this rate I am hoping to have a reads list by halfway through D1, so stay tuned for that.

[Quick]

Okay, cool, so you refused to psychoanalyse people based on motivation and are just going to stick to "the facts." Good luck with that.

What the actual fuck? I literally posted what I believe is the motivation for scum vs town and you want to tell me I'm refusing to engage with motivation? Sando 523

Just how much of an idiot are you?

I've read and reread that post.

You make a VERY fatal error in your theory though (and it is a theory): you assume people are "rational." People are NOT rational. People do illogical things all the time and this is actually MORE TRUE for Town than Scum. Scum want to fit in, they don't want to stick out. Also, for your read to be correct here, you have to assume the Scum players in question is reasonably better than average talking themselves out of pressure because it is a high risk play with not much reward for it given all you get is to get someone off the Town block temporarily and that is given it is successful. If a person is going to play like this, they are going to be playing an almost overly analytical game, which would then contradict the nature of sticking out in the first place.

In other words, you are using a tell that only works for a very specific kind of player and playing it off as though this is par for the course when it is not. In my experience as both a player and an observer, if someone is acting in a way that sticks out from the norm, they are more often Town than Scum unless they are the type of player who doesn't really do things "by the book" in which case, it's NAI.

Ofc I am speaking as someone through the experience they have of the game and am not really speaking as someone who is theorizing about what "correct play" is. Theories that require "correct play" lose a lot of the realistic expectation that I can gather from my experience of playing in so many games.

The type of player who would push a widely read as Town player in the attempt to keep them off the Town block is the type of player who is more charismatic by nature rather than analytical because this kind of play requires a lot of finnes of knowing as Scum what you can and cannot get away with.

All that said, what player were we talking about again? I should probably check that so that I can see whether they are more of an analytical vs charismatic player.

[Quick]

You make a VERY fatal error in your theory though (and it is a theory): you assume people are "rational."

Right, so you're saying it's capitalism and market economies, good theory but relies on everyone being a rational actor.

But it seems like:

Rationally town should not

be going after someone elses TR

Rationally scum may need

to go after some elses TR

Town are sometimes irrational so therefore in any situation where ^bold occurs it's NAI.

This is why I townlist rather than scumlist, town are idiots and do stupid shit that is anti-town and pro-scum. So what I'm saying, the natural and logical reaction to your above being right is...to townhunt, and trying to sabotage others townhunting isn't a particularly good reaction to you being right about people being irrational.

Fuuuuck that was circular from me. Basically I'm happy with what I've said previously, I'm much more often right about townies than scummies, if you don't want to scumread Oxy I don't really care, but saying I'm wrong without addressing the logic will get you tunnelled and ridiculed.

P.S. It's Oxy we're talking about

Yeah, sure. But YOU are making the claim that people default to rational behavior. So for your interpretation to be correct, you need to show some solid evidence to back up that people default to being rational.

Oxy strikes me much much more as an analytical player. So that's where I stand on the issue. And you didn't really address what I said except for a blup at the top of your post. I can slice that as avoiding the central topic, but I'd rather see you try and argue how people are more often than not rational rather than irrational. And as

I

explained, the type of player who is more likely to pull something like that needs to know how to manipulate people better than your average joe, so that would be another thing you need to counter in order for your read to be correct.

[Quick]

Actually, you don't have to answer, this post is bleeding town (676)

I disagree that you should be giving Townie points for being "logical." Scum can make cases on people too, and in fact, I'd say more often than not Scum default to being rational and Town default to being unsound/chaotic/unknowledgeable/ignorant/doubtful. The reason for this is simple: Town are automatically in a place filled with chaos while Scum are in a place of order.

[Quick]

Yeah, sure. But YOU are making the claim that people default to rational behavior. So for your interpretation to be correct, you need to show some solid evidence to back up that people default to being rational.

What I'm saying is that it's not rational for town to do what Oxy did, I think we agree on that? I'm then/now saying that the rational reaction to what you're saying (

everyone is sometimes irrational

) is to townhunt and not try to mess with others townhunting without specific cause.

Basically I'm saying it takes double-irrationality to do what Oxy did.

Yeah sure, all people are irrational at times, but there's got to be a cutoff at some point between irrationality and scuminess.

Isn't saying he's an analytical player basically saying they're a fairly rational player anyway?

I'm going to put this to bed right now.

Oxy made a reads list explicitly of Town and Null reads. If Oxy is attacking other people's TRs, it is because he wants to forward his own TRs and keeping players TRs he disagrees with from getting on the Town block. In short, Oxy is fighting for HIS reads to be part of the Town block and trying to say "Nah, that person doesn't belong there" when someone pushes for a player to be on the Town block that he disagrees with. Why? Because his PoV is prioritizing TRs over SRs at this point in the game. Because of that, it's actually Pro-Town behavior to defend his TRs and attack other peoples TRs that he doesn't agree with. It's a complete narrative that Oxy has for themself and if you want to say it's Scummy for him to attack people's TRs without context of the game, then you are just talking about the theory of what a rational person would do without that context. We have context on Oxy - he hasn't given any hard SRs yet, but he has given hard TRs. IIRC his vote on duckling is because "this is the Scummiest thing I have seen

yet in the game

. He isn't pushing duckling for being Scum as much as he is saying "this is the scummiest thing I have seen so far" but with context you have to add "but I would rather fight based on TRs at this point in time" I understand this perspective because I know myself to have better TRs than SRs this early in the game. IF Oxy is playing this way, you are going to have to show how it's inconsistent with how he would normally approach the game because as far as I can see, this is just really Pro-Town play on Oxy's part.

[Quick]

Wait so now him pushing against my TR is, in fact, rational?

You can make this argument if you want, but it's going to get pretty thick in here if you do.

[Quick]

It's actually a good case for a playstyle, and yeah, it's my playstyle except I hadn't really thought consciously about fighting off TR's I don't like.

I was really just in a shitty mood, and I felt like he was coming at me, so I told him his read was shit instead of trying to be diplomatic.

Doesn't mean that you weren't doing it unconsciously. And yeah, we can get up to our necks in analytics of behavior if you guys want. I study that shit for fun in my spare time so I'm not against arguing this stuff.

[Quick]

Wait so now him pushing against my TR is, in fact, rational?

You can make this argument if you want, but it's going to get pretty thick in here if you do.

Lol nah I don't really care, that was just a troll, this has gone way too far down the rabbit hole to be useful, and he's stated himself it wasn't a rational conversation. I'm comfortable with where I'm at, he's staying in my lynch list, and I've gotten out of this what I wanted.

How on earth is Oxy the Scummiest person in the game when you have:

1. duck
   
2. NM
   
3. Spartan slot
   
4. Pin
   
5. Korina

[Quick]

Not-lynch - Duckling, quick, Fumu, Sando, Oxy

Would lynch - Pintu, Spartan, Alonzo, Ico, CJ, N_M, Korina

Unsure - mutant

Like...only my Oxy and Alonzo reads have changed, I've been pretty consistent here.

You seem awfully upset that I'm voting Oxy...

I'm not upset at all M8. Just when I destroy someone's reasons for being on a vote they are on and they don't reevaluate it makes me question their motives.

Talk to me about Ico, because I am actually tentatively TRing that slot rn.

[Quick]

How on earth is Oxy the Scummiest person in the game when you have:
duck

NM
Spartan slot
Pin
Korina

This is also why I think this whole "zomg your TR is shit" thing is so stupid. There's 4 people right there that we agree should live in the lynch list, but you two would rather bang on for 10 pages about how one of my TRs might be wrong.

yes, I would. Why is that a problem?

[Quick]

Felt like a player realising they're not keeping up with the game and seeking to show that they're doing something.

I feel like this sort of thing is NAI.

Didn't feel like a genuine effort from him.

Define genuine effort?

[Quick]

Felt like a player realising they're not keeping up with the game and seeking to show that they're doing something.

I feel like this sort of thing is NAI.

Didn't feel like a genuine effort from him.

Define genuine effort?

EBWOP

[Quick]

Felt like a player realising they're not keeping up with the game and seeking to show that they're doing something.

I feel like this sort of thing is NAI.

Didn't feel like a genuine effort from him.

Define genuine effort?

This time with feeling!

[Quick]

What is this? And also, why wouldn't scum NK them, because the only role that can save itself is Hider? There's no Doc, so unless they're Hider, why wouldn't scum NK them? And are you implying Quick is Hider?

I'm going to call this an LOL!Clear. It's too crazy to come from Scum considering how the hell would Pin know I was hider or not?

[Quick]

I feel like this sort of thing is NAI.

Falling behind is yes, trying to be all "look guys I'm helping" gets into scummy territory, doing it with a pressure vote that this game has shown is unnecessary pushes it further into scum territory.

By genuine effort I mean that they actual care and are genuine about what they're saying/asking. It didn't feel like the pressure vote was a genuine attempt to get an answer and apply pressure, rather an attempt to be seen as doing something and get his name on the board.

Since when is effort AI?

What if I told you I was TRing Ico with their first post because it looked like they were trying to create content?

[Quick]

Just when I destroy someone's reasons for being on a vote they are on and they don't reevaluate it makes me question their motives.

Lol

O rly?

How about you nom me for Paragon if I catch the whole Scum team by EoD1?

[Quick]

I feel like this sort of thing is NAI.

Falling behind is yes

, trying to be all "look guys I'm helping" gets into scummy territory, doing it with a pressure vote that this game has shown is unnecessary pushes it further into scum territory.

By genuine effort I mean that they actual care and are genuine about what they're saying/asking. It didn't feel like the pressure vote was a genuine attempt to get an answer and apply pressure, rather an attempt to be seen as doing something and get his name on the board.

Since when is effort AI?

What if I told you I was TRing Ico with their first post because it looked like they were trying to create content?

...ok fine, I'll stop talking to you, you're increasingly desperate to misunderstand basic english.

Quick: This sort of thing is NAI
Sando: Yeah falling behind is
Quick: Zomg since when is effort AI?!?!?!

Like what part of "

effort itself is not AI, the genuine nature of it is AI

" don't you understand?

Mommy hold me I am scared of the big bad man!

I think you are bluffing a facade there M8

VOTE: Sando

[Quick]

Yerp...

[Quick]

I think you are bluffing a facade there M8

How does one bluff a facade?

Are you trying for a new tautological saying there?

What r ya hopin to accomplish wit dis M8?

How about you nom me for Paragon if I catch the whole Scum team by EoD1?

Rofl yeah sure, I'm pretty safe there.

Sweet.

[Quick]

How on earth is

Oxy

Sando the Scummiest person in the game when you have:
duck
NM
Spartan slot
Pin
Korina

Kgo!

That's a fake cheap trick mate.

You've seen me vote your buddy and then go back to NM.

[Quick]

What r ya hopin to accomplish wit dis M8?

you're increasingly desperate to misunderstand basic english.

Is that a defence? How?

[Quick]

You've seen me vote your buddy and then go back to NM.

Lol I left your original Oxy in there, no-one thinks you actually said it, chill Winston.

Yeah, I have, so answer the question maybe?

Is that a defence? How?

Defence of what?

Did you google tautology/tautological yet?

You really asking me to answer that? What would be the point?

So instead of actually coming up with a reasonable argument you decide to throw in a few Ad Homs...

[Quick]

[Quick]

You really asking me to answer that? What would be the point?

Lol?

So it's reasonable to ask me why I'm voting Oxy right now when there's heaps of other scummy people, but it's unreasonable for me to ask you why you're voting me when there's heaps of other scummy people?

I know you don't like me Quick, I know you're annoyed at me using big words and having a different opinion on a few players than you, but you're not making a rational argument here, you're barely making an argument at all.

Why do you keep posting a massive photo into the thread?

I have zero problems with you on a personal level so no idea where this is coming from.

The diff is that we are posting in real time vs. "this is my vote for the day/time being"

You don't understand the difference between pressuring someone in real time vs. making a stance for what you want your vote to stand for?

[Quick]

Now you are trying to slow down the pace so you don't have to act in real time.

[Quick]

I have zero problems with you on a personal level so no idea where this is coming from.

Well you haven't actually articulated a reason for voting me beyond "bluffing a facade", which makes zero sense.

Just providing a link to the dictionary definition in case you need it.

So you're not gonna answer the question then?

I don't think it's likely you flip Town given what I said earlier about Scum defaulting to rational and Town defaulting to chaotic given Town are essentially left in the dark and Scum already know everything. Pretty much all your arguments are based on a "reasonable" PoV and given people in general are NOT rational and your insistence that Oxy is the Scummiest person in the game and you haven't reevaluated based on what I said about Oxy, yeah, that would be why I am voting you.

[Quick]

Pretty much all your arguments are based on a "reasonable" PoV and given people in general are NOT rational

Hahahahaha, you're definitely being nominated for funniest scumread.

So I'm too rational for you and that must be scummy. Righto.

That's not my entire argument. Ignoring the full context behind my reasons for voting you is also Scummy.

[Quick]

Wait why do you scumread N_M then? He's about as irrational as they come apparently.

I SR NM for ignoring my push on them.

[Quick]

I spect you're trying to change the subject now.

[Quick]

[Quick]

I don't even need to sort you at this point. At this point Town can correctly sort you because if you are Scum I would have rattled your cage enough to throw you off your game.

[Quick]

NEVER EVER LYNCH:
quick, the worst

town: korina fumuki sando pinto

unsorted: random, not mafia

scum: devle, ceejay, alonzo, ice

I need raisins for those reads.

[Quick]

NEVER EVER LYNCH:
quick, the worst

town: korina fumuki sando pinto

unsorted: random, not mafia

scum: devle, ceejay, alonzo, ice

What's with me tho

i looked into ur heart and saw it was filled with malice. sorry you had to roll wolf here

This is precisely the type of play that I hate, so thanks for that.

[Quick]

@quick I've never played with a hydra before. Any advice on dealing with them? Like just treat them like anyone else?

I don't distinguish between heads when I play with Hydra's. That said, it's probably Eddie talking.

[Quick]

the duck is probably the deepwolf theyre banking on, ice is scum, and one of alonzo/devle is scum.

still gotta look into the last two poe and look into ceejay tho

@quick I've never played with a hydra before. Any advice on dealing with them? Like just treat them like anyone else?

I don't distinguish between heads when I play with Hydra's. That said, it's probably Eddie talking.

how dare you

It's da lack of capitals.

[Quick]

Hm?

So duckling is the lynch today, then.

Nah, let's lynch NM instead?

[Quick]

You all gotta deal with me for a while longer. Muahahaha.

Why?

[Quick]

btw i now own this thread, so if ur gonna talk to me, pls address me as your majesty or my liege pls. ty

Yerp. You should prolly start splainin at some point because this "dis post good" "dis post bad" shit has got to go.

[Quick]

btw i now own this thread, so if ur gonna talk to me, pls address me as your majesty or my liege pls. ty

Yerp. You should prolly start splainin at some point because this "dis post good" "dis post bad" shit has got to go.

dis post bad

Seriously... you should prolly try reading a few of my posts at least.

[Quick]

I think you froze. =/

Are you and Quick the same person?

Chainsaw....

[Quick]

Rereading thread. At top of 6.

[Quick]

OK, I am just going to call Pin Pikachu from now on.

[Quick]

P8 is all Town looks like.

[Quick]

UNVOTE: Quick

In all honesty (since I'm mobile posting rn), that was a pressure/reaction vote.
I wanted to see what people would do in reaction to what I said.

I'll post what I got from it later when I have my laptop.

Also NM being trolly fuck again, I see.

This post is Scummy af... who else thinks so?

[Quick]

I remember Quick being less serious in our last game together, although he replaced in there so I don't know how he plays at the start of a game, but him being so serious at an RVS state pings me (the whole Fuckyouandme situation seems odd)

Are you talking about the game where it got so heated between me and Boon that I replaced out? Yeah, I was serious the whole fucking game there, so no idea what you are talking about.

[Quick]

I threw up in my mouth a little bit Quick is right!!

Town can be: me Quick Sando Fumuki for now

Pinkchurros what are you thinkin

I remember Quick being less serious in our last game together, although he replaced in there so I don't know how he plays at the start of a game, but him being so serious at an RVS state pings me (the whole Fuckyouandme situation seems odd)

I'm scumleaning mutant, meta reasons

I like you and Sando, with Oxy a little behind

Korina I don't where he at but he will be sorted

Miltank unsortable and seems that he's happy with that meta

I can't remember who else is playing

I tried to read some of Quick's previous games. He really is serious even if its RVS. So I guess he gets a townlean from me for now.

I'm serious during RVS as both alignments... It's like no one knows me.

[Quick]

If you want something of substance to read ISO me + lil uzi vert + nm + almost50

Wut? I thought you could only ISO 3 at a time... did this change or what?

[Quick]

Bad town, but town.

You know, I get that a lot, lol. The thing is tho is that there is This and This So I am just going to give this a giant *shrug*

[Quick]

mutant's reaction is not that of someone who's played with Fumuki before

Correct, I haven't played with Fumuki before. Looking at his join date I wouldn't have thought anyone has (unless you count on going games). It always takes me a while to adjust to troll posters. Eg. I didn't realise Not_Mafia was a shit poster until halfway through the first game I played with him.

Do not like the lack of possibility that Fumuki could be an alt. Don't like that at all.

[Quick]

Townlean on mutantdevle. I think his answers regarding what happened earlier are genuine. UNVOTE: mutantdevle

How do you know he was genuine?

[Quick]

Why are we dragging scumtells out of reads lists? Asking why a person is tr or sr is fine I guess. But to go and say "I don't like this list. You're scum" won't help us.

The intent behind readslists is = important to the content of the list

Unless you know the posters alignment

Um. The intent of readslists are to sort people right?

For town--yes!

Scum win by spinning a narrative which is believable, in which they (and often their buddies!) are town + worth keeping alive until endgame. On this basis scum unconsciously construct read lists which are 1) false, 2) do not incriminate them in the event of a mislynch and 3) obviously benefit their narrative

Wait a seeeec. Are you implying that Oxy made up a fake readslist??? And he may have put a townlean on one of his partners assuming he really is scum?

Actually that strikes me as really impressive Town play....

[Quick]

Yes, I had the thought when I was giving the thread a close read, just prior to giving those reads.

If you want to get really specific, I had had the thought prior to asking if you were always so helpful.

Okay rather than false let's consider your reads list "disingenuous" (acting as though you care less / have less of an opinion than you do)

False readslists are clearly scummy
Disingenuous readlists are more likely to come from town who don't trust themselves to make an "AYYY GOTTEM" read early on

Random feedback. Take on board only if you want to. there's never any harm in calling this kind of read scummy. If you'd literally called me "nullscum" on that read list I would've considered it a lot more consistent with your posting and wouldn't have been aa paranoid. What alarmed me was you had me/quick/someone at the same level yet only focused on me that tends to suggest you are starting to sort me OR you're gauging my lynchability


Anyway the last few pages also point very very strongly towards you being town for a couple of reasons imo

So I'm comfortable rolling w that

Actually, this is a really good post.

[Quick]

2/3 of the way there. Now is when the fun stuff starts

[Quick]

And you didn't really address what I said except for a blup at the top of your post.

I'm not addressing the rest of your post since I'm fine with your premise, which I quoted, and the rest is basically you backing up that premise.

But agreeing that people are irrational creatures doesn't change my view:

Yeah sure, all people are irrational at times, but there's got to be a cutoff at some point between irrationality and scuminess.

The cut off point is when someone is being 100% rational. That's a Scum tell.

[Quick]

Wait so now him pushing against my TR is, in fact, rational?

You can make this argument if you want, but it's going to get pretty thick in here if you do.

Lol nah I don't really care, that was just a troll, this has gone way too far down the rabbit hole to be useful, and he's stated himself it wasn't a rational conversation. I'm comfortable with where I'm at, he's staying in my lynch list, and I've gotten out of this what I wanted.

I seriously don't get the Town motivation here of Sando not wanting to hash out his biggest SR.

[Quick]

How on earth is Oxy the Scummiest person in the game when you have:
duck

NM
Spartan slot
Pin
Korina

This is also why I think this whole "zomg your TR is shit" thing is so stupid. There's 4 people right there that we agree should live in the lynch list, but you two would rather bang on for 10 pages about how one of my TRs might be wrong.

ya, but why is Oxy the Scummiest?

[Quick]

How on earth is

Oxy

Sando the Scummiest person in the game when you have:
duck
NM
Spartan slot
Pin
Korina

Kgo!

Now you are shifting the goal post.

[Quick]

Pretty much all your arguments are based on a "reasonable" PoV and given people in general are NOT rational

Hahahahaha, you're definitely being nominated for funniest scumread.

So I'm too rational for you and that must be scummy. Righto.

This is a misrep if I ever saw one.

[Quick]

the duck has a good wolf game. they might be the deepwolf i was missing. adding them to unsorted. ice is likely wolf here. N_M feels not as appeasing as his scum game. he's egging on violence rather than trying to be more peaceful town.

i'll have game locked soon enough. VOTE: Ice

This post sucks eggs.

[Quick]

Finally, something fun to read instead of that painful 1v1 between Quick and Sandro

Hydra, what do you think about Not Mafia? Have you played with him before?

In my experience when I am in a "painful to read" 1v1 with someone they are really likely to be Scum.

[Quick]

I'm super confused by the Quick + Oxy team here, it makes zero of the senses.

I'm cool with Ico.

VOTE: Iconeum

Momo I haven't seen your read on Oxy?

This is really really bad. Pretty much naked vote after Sando and I hashed out for like 2 pages our read on Oxy. So for Sando to just up and "I will vote lurker now" is not a good look at all.

[Quick]

The dude literally SRs and nitpicks me because he finds my posting style disagreeable idek what else to do here

I think I know what he is doing. I think your fine. Some things you have done kinda worry me, but on the whole I like you for Town.

[Quick]

mutant's reaction is not that of someone who's played with Fumuki before

Correct, I haven't played with Fumuki before. Looking at his join date I wouldn't have thought anyone has (unless you count on going games). It always takes me a while to adjust to troll posters. Eg. I didn't realise Not_Mafia was a shit poster until halfway through the first game I played with him.

Do not like the lack of possibility that Fumuki could be an alt. Don't like that at all.

I thought this was a safe assumption. Isn't there a way to know if someone has other accts? sorry for newb

Only reason I bring it up is cuz I have someone in mind, but given they are not in many other games, that read is pending. Theory is they want to just play certain roles with that alt, but that's tin foil, admittedly.

[Quick]

mutant's reaction is not that of someone who's played with Fumuki before

Correct, I haven't played with Fumuki before. Looking at his join date I wouldn't have thought anyone has (unless you count on going games). It always takes me a while to adjust to troll posters. Eg. I didn't realise Not_Mafia was a shit poster until halfway through the first game I played with him.

Do not like the lack of possibility that Fumuki could be an alt. Don't like that at all.

I thought this was a safe assumption. Isn't there a way to know if someone has other accts? sorry for newb

Only reason I bring it up is cuz I have someone in mind, but given they are not in many other games, that read is pending. Theory is they want to just play certain roles with that alt, but that's tin foil, admittedly.

Oh - is this taking into consideration that Fumuki replaced out? Because he did that across all of his games, so that's NAI.

I didn't know if we were allowed to say that or not.

That said, if you are looking for it, it's pretty easy to see that Fumuki could very well be an alt here.

[Quick]

In post 328, mutantdevle wrote:
In post 181, Sando wrote:
mutant's reaction is not that of someone who's played with Fumuki before

Correct, I haven't played with Fumuki before. Looking at his join date I wouldn't have thought anyone has (unless you count on going games). It always takes me a while to adjust to troll posters. Eg. I didn't realise Not_Mafia was a shit poster until halfway through the first game I played with him.

Actually, I don't think this is dependent on Fumuki being an alt.

Either way it's an unknown name and play style, and that is what mutant would have been reacting to here.

Uh... quote fail?

[Quick]

Why on earth is NM Town?

BoP... ROTFLMAO.

[Quick]

How do you expect other people to take you seriously when you don't even take yourself seriously?

[Quick]

Why on earth is NM Town?

BoP... ROTFLMAO.

rich coming from one of the worst active players. I'm gonna be nice because I'm on a hydra, but please dont address me more than necessary. I am fighting my instincts to policy lynch you right now because its "antiwincon"

nm posts pinged town. idk what deep analysis you want, why on earth is he scum?

He pinged Town? He pinged Town? What the fuck am I supposed to do with that? Why the fuck should I just trust you blindly? How do I know you are not just leading Town off a cliff? You want to play Town leader, you need more than stones, you need content, and you've provided next to none. Anyone who follows you is a fool. Shepherd of fools, maybe that is what I will call you.

And you can go right ahead and try and PL me you little bitch. I'd like to know what for. So if you have the goods to throw a PL on me let's hear your reasoning big guy. These are empty words anyways. You're just talking shit to talk shit, you can back up shit. And it can't be a reaction test because you're alreads Town reading deez nutz, so what the fuck is your point anyways trying to say you will PL me? You fishing for a read, you can get bent and go straight to hell. You ain't nobody to me.

[Quick]

I dont knkw what 850 means my guy.

It means your puffing yourself up like a fucking whoopie cushion.

[Quick]

He pinged Town? He pinged Town? What the fuck am I supposed to do with that?

I would say you'll learn this eventually, but you've played 100 games and still haven't so I doubt it. Gut is the best way to read and where all good reads come from. People find words to justify gut, but gut is the core of all reads and for some people nothing past gut is valid. You aren't supposed to DO anything with it, I said myself its as strong as can be which is weak... almost like you saying NM is as close to scum as he can be. For uncited reasons.

Gut is good, but it seldom should be used in isolation. What I hear you saying is that you are not going to attempt to explain yourself because "muy gut told me" News flash: that is not Mafia, that is pin the tail on the donkey.

Why the fuck should I just trust you blindly? How do I know you are not just leading Town off a cliff?

Why the fuck should you trust anyone blindly? Why the fuck are you not trying to look at our reads and jumping to "leading town off a cliff"?

See my last post genius. If you can't explain your reads, no one has any business sheeping you.

You want to play Town leader, you need more than stones, you need content, and you've provided next to none.

Are you joking? We've already provided more content than about 5 slots. At least our pushes aren't obv town and null lurker

I would not call giving 5 naked reads and one sentence each for your reads much content. You talking about other slots not providing content is moving the goal post. You want people to sheep you? You have to earn that, you don't get that for free.

Anyone who follows you is a fool. Shepherd of fools, maybe that is what I will call you.

It must be hard being so dumb you don't know you're dumb.

You still don't get why people shouldn't just sheep you, do you? Yeah, I am pretty confortable with my intelligence at this stage of the argument. If "you are dumb" is the best argument you have, keep your day job.

nd you can go right ahead and try and PL me you little bitch. I'd like to know what for. So if you have the goods to throw a PL on me let's hear your reasoning big guy.

If I was vig I would shoot you despite thinking you're town because its +town EV. Unfortunately, I'm not and I can't blow a lynch on one of the most townie slots in a game with a lot of newbies. Reasoning? Well, to quote myself from Gif's dead thread,

I'd like to know how you figured out it +EV to shoot me as Vig... I produce more content than anyone in the game. I would not call that a reason to Vig me.

LQ I just think is an awful player with an ego and post count that matches someone who should be far better. I don't respect him as a player or as a person. I told the mod I would only sub in for Cedrick because despite not liking Cedrick I can understand why he is the way he is and there's an experienced alright player there underneath the personality and issues I have so much disdain for, and he means well.

Actively gamethrowing in every game I've seen you in is part of it, though.

Including White Flag, that normal with Boon where you were the vig, that Gif newbie I subbed into, I've literally never seen you play towards a town wincon. I'm not going to policy lynch you here because I subbed in, I'm on a hydra, and there aren't enough townie slots, but believe me I want to.

You've got a big mouth bro. You want to back that up with something, or nah? You talking about me gamethrowing makes me not want to respect you either man. I mean, I get it. This is all a show so you can look cool and impress people with how little you think of me... But really? You don't know a fucking thing about me. I don't recall you ever trying to figure out where I was coming from. I've played one fucking game with you and your talking about me behind my back. IDK man, that is pretty low. IDK how you justify it... you probably aren't being cognizant of what you are doing... only explanation to explain your shitty behavior.

Why the fuck should I just trust you blindly? How do I know you are not just leading Town off a cliff?

This read isn't a good example because its a weak ass tr on a useless player, but in general, I can answer both of these.

Then why are you not answering these? I mean I don't respect you at all after you said you were talking negatively behind my back and then bring it up to rub in in my face that I'm not as popular as you, but I still have to ask you to explain this, because I am not getting how I am supposed to formulate a read on you if you never explain anything.

Why should you trust my reads? This is what I think you're asking, because you "ROTFLMAO"'d at my BoP post. viewtopic.php?p=10081820#p10081820 is a good starter point, for my most recent completed games and being the "most prestigious games of the year" (lets not get into the debate of how shit they were rn ). From the host of the tour who had access to private comms. Not good enough? What about your own game? viewtopic.php?f=127&t=74687 for people not in the loop. viewtopic.php?p=9985516#p9985516 was my last given reads list, in shorter form its {Lycan / NSG / Ran}{Gamma} {LQ} {TSQ} {Davsto / AD} {Marquis} {Dunn / CES}. If you had sheeped me you won the game in two lynches because I said its unlikely Dunn and CES are partners and later unveiled why Dunn is conf town.

Not good enough? Well, lets go into your next point, how will you know I/we aren't leading you off a cliff. I have a response for that which is actually good. Enter viewtopic.php?f=83&t=75025 and let's ignore the fact I only tunnelled scum against 3 living townies ALL hard pocketed, because I've already cased why I should be sheeped. I only replace into slots I think are town. I could be wrong, sure, but my reads are provably >>>rand and I have a consistent track record of only replacing in as town. Eddie, before joining, iso'd the slot he was subbing into and determined he was town. Fumuki bled town so that shouldn't be a shocker.

I am not going to be addressing you again, and this game has no doc/watcher so we are getting killed n1 or n2. If you have something game related to ask me, sure. Sit the fuck down, shut the fuck up, and learn your place. I don't want to ego wall against you all game, I'll be ignoring you if you do it again. You aren't worth my time. Plus, effortposting really isn't KTS' thing and goes against the MOMOMEN style.[/spoiler]

Nice link

OK, kewl, so you like trust tells. I'd like to know how you figured out Spartan was Town, so lay that one on me. It's especially rich considering you have a "no rand" policy.

Oh and guess what? BoP isn't a thing considering if it was a thing then you would have had to have had perfect reads from your very first game to this game. And that's ignoring that there is no guarantee that you will continue the trend. So excuse me while I think of something comical to say... HA!

And if we are going to play a "My reads is so good, I just can't believe" what the fuck do you make of this: viewtopic.php?p=9970172#p9970172

[Quick]

Ice said they weren't playing this day phase so no idea why you are voting there :/

[Quick]

Ice said they weren't playing this day phase so no idea why you are voting there :/

This is why you do not deserve to be sheeped.

[Quick]

sorry brah like i said i'm averaging 2.5 wolves a game rn, and it might even turn into 3 wolves a game. you got nothing on me LOL.

gonna wait for others to post bc i want to make this a team game. not engaging a player who's insistent on throwing a tantrum about our slot.

M8, do I have to remind you you threatened to PL me based on me "throwing games?"

[Quick]

Just popping in to say I'm reading less and less of the game as the pages go by, would anyone like to guess why?

Don't start.

[Quick]

yo uh

icy >

tw >

town!worst=oxy scum!worst=mutant >

CJ >

NM / Alonzo


and we have PRs, so game over. bye. good riddance.

back 2 this

Could you translate this for me? It's in the order of most likely scum to least likely scum, right?

basically, ya.

Great read on all the active posters.

[Quick]

thanks for your quality contribution.

You couldn't have done it without me.

[Quick]

I can do that TOO00ooooOOO

Scum!Alanzo = Town!Duck

Cept that's as far as I go because no point in doing Pre-Flip. I have to put my pants on one at a time after all.

[Quick]

BTW, your Pre-Flip is cute.

[Quick]

[Quick]

Just popping in to say I'm reading less and less of the game as the pages go by, would anyone like to guess why?

Because you go against the spirit of the game?

VOTE: Not_Mafia

[Quick]

The ONLY reason I can see NM as Town here is because he called me Town.

[Quick]

Why would scum me not call you town?

And no your guess was wrong

I asked you a question a while back. Could you please answer that question?

[Quick]

My question's better

Better is subjective. I asked you first.

[Quick]

Quick is town

Here's your chance to almost instantly get me to vote elsewhere:

Why am I Town?

What if I don't care about where your vote is?

Well, here's another way of putting it:

If you don't explain yourself, I am going to push you as a PL. Do you want that? If you don't, please just answer the damn question.

Is this what you want me to answer? Because that is my answer

Yest that is my question. What is your answer?

[Quick]

I just told you

Give me 3 TRs...

[Quick]

Quick
Momosaman
Not_Mafia

what is your read on Alonzo?

[Quick]

Quick
Momosaman
Not_Mafia

what is your read on Alonzo?

You answer my question now

Will it help you solve the game? If not, I'm not answering.

[Quick]

Fond something you might like NM.

[Quick]

Why would scum me not call you town?

So you don't look bad after you keell me.

[Quick]

You know what? I think NM is actually readable. I just hate their playstyle and that was tripping me up.

For now:

UNVOTE:

[Quick]

Why would scum me not call you town?

So you don't look bad after you keell me.

There is 0% chance I would NK you

You asked, I told you.

[Quick]

VOTE: Sando

I want to be first on this wagon.

[Quick]

It's also not a 1v1 when I'm townreading him

Semantics will get you everywhere.

Nice post, but uh... wut?

[Quick]

y'know quick, on mu, you were half as rude and twice as good. not sure why you have to be this way here, but whatever. just don't complain when people don't listen to you.

@NM, shoot me some scumreads brah.

Well, it's not every game I get people threatening toPL me for game throwing so there is that.

[Quick]

y'know quick, on mu, you were half as rude and twice as good. not sure why you have to be this way here, but whatever. just don't complain when people don't listen to you.

@NM, shoot me some scumreads brah.

Well, it's not every game I get people threatening toPL me for game throwing so there is that.

But to actually answer you conundrum, I am sorta a kind of chameleon - I play differently on different sites. If you look at my games on SC2Mafia, I am probably the most well mannered person there and I go out of my way to be like that there because that site is toxic.

[Quick]

I can make a wall on why it's terrible if necessary, but just look.

I know why it's terrible, as were his follow ups. Is it scummy though? If so, why?

That's a fair question. It's definitely not townie, and I think that in the context of his ISO as a whole, it is scummy.

That push onto duckling that examined posts up through rvs conveniently ends before there is anything significant to discuss about why his partner is scum.

I'd love for him to make the rest of the case. =)

I really will be low key surprised if town made 580, though.

Here is what I was thinking:

I don't think Alanzo jumps his vote around much. Due to that, I think that because he went after Duck like that that its either a hard distance and he is probably going to make a different push sometime D1 or Duck/Alanzo not a thing.

[Quick]

But I am TRing Duck atm so it doesn't really mean much.

[Quick]

Why did you dodge me Sando?

[Quick]

@Alonzo Are you going to finish your case on the duckling, mate?

heres the thing, that iso is miles long, and its miserable to read. Worst could resonably make it 25% longer over the next few days.

I will persevere, but as stated that sort of mass editing isnt my strong point. you will have more from me on that subject before the end of the day, of that there is no doubt.

In the meantime I suggested people do a top 5 townreads post the worst, so i can have a look and see what im missing in my reads. No such posts exist as of yet that im aware of.

I'll take you up on this.

And what do you make of Duck not being here today?

[Quick]

people I don't really want to lynch atm are currently
the worst, Quick, Sando, mutantdevle, ceejayvinoya, Fumuki

therefore we've got 12 irl days to lynch somewhere in
pinturicchio, Spartan117, Alonzo, Iconeum, Oxy, Not_Mafia, Korina

My not-lynch is shorter than yours, but there's no-one in your lynch list that would be in my non-lynch list, so I'm cool with that. CJ doesn't deserve not-lynch status and Fumu...well I guess in a heads v tails I'll give not-lynch, but I'm not happy about it. Not happy about it I tells you, not happy!

Wait, ling of ducks, lets move Oxy into the "posts good enough stuff that we'll get a fine read in subsequent days" catagory, and not lynch him today. Swap him for CJ mmmk.

I don't wanna do this yettt but I agree he's less likely scum than tallglassofliquor

Why CJ?

This is all I found so sorry that I came up empty handed on that Town case of Duck.

[Quick]

Quick, what was the purpose of you going through and quoting old comments like that?

Sure, it's nice to reread some previous stuff and compare them to the now to help hunt scum, but what bothers me is how trivial some of what you were saying was. It seems like a lot of that could have just been kept in your head or posted in a single summary post at the end of it all.

Pot meets kettle.

[Quick]

I don't like how quickly all of the sudden Mutant is getting these votes. Seem like a Scum fabricated wagon to me.

[Quick]

I don't like how quickly all of the sudden Mutant is getting these votes. Seem like a Scum fabricated wagon to me.

except it's very clearly an organic wagon with mainly town votes on it

That is very easy to claim and very difficult to back up so I am going to have to ask you to tell me how you know that.

[Quick]

I don't like how quickly all of the sudden Mutant is getting these votes. Seem like a Scum fabricated wagon to me.

except it's very clearly an organic wagon with mainly town votes on it

That is very easy to claim and very difficult to back up so I am going to have to ask you to tell me how you know that.

point out to me who scum on the wagon is.

Just waiting on Mathdino, but Im your new Korina

whaddup pk

IDK who exactly the Scum are on the wagon. That's not what I am claiming. I am claiming that it's very possible that this is an Scum produced wagon due to Mutant getting so many votes in such a short time. I am claiming there is a great lack of resistance on the Mutant wagon so that might indicate he is Town.

Do you not understand this or something?

[Quick]

if you can't tell me who the scum are, you can't throw out the blanket statement that it's scum produced. speed of wagon means nothing if the composition is entirely villa.

gtfo

I will defer to my experience than... Most of the time when a wagon grows that fast, it's not on Scum.

[Quick]

prob cuz you never played with me

Except I've played with both of you?

[Quick]

Ladder of town reads down to scum reads:

{Oxy, Sando}
{Quick, the worst}
{Alonso}
{MOMOMEN, Not_Mafia, randommidget, Iconeum}
{Ceejay}
{Korina, Pintu}

That's an ugly reads list dude. VOTE: mutant

Ceej -- in your words, how do you consider this read list ugly?

I can wait

^^ policy voteparking ANYONE who tries to WK this

I almost want to do it just to test you.

[Quick]

^ look at what i mean. overarticulation, but i also forgot to mention wishy washy reads.

I said he was over articulate a long time ago and then I change my read on him because I think it aligns with his personality.

[Quick]

overarticulation, but i also forgot to mention wishy washy reads.

Ok what's the problem with over-articulation? I've deliberately tried to contribute to the general pace of the game in the idea that scum are going to struggle to keep up in a meaningful way...mutant hasn't, he's kept us quite nicely tbh. He responds in a once a day huge-post rather than sticking it out in real time, but that seems to be his style rather than a tactic.

His town reads are a lot worse than his scum reads imo. Quick is towniest to me, despite being...not very good, but yeah me, Oxy and Duck deserve 2nd teir townie at most.

Scumreads, I mean if they're easy mislynches then that's because people scumread them...Scumreading an easy mislynch is either a) townies seeing them in their natural habitat and reacting like normal or b) scummies knowing they're an easy mislynch and pushing that through. Why is this particular scumread on easy mislynches scummy? Sure you think Korina is obv-town, but I certainly don't, and there's been too many people this game who don't for you to think we're all scum. So what are you looking for to differentiate between (a) and (b).

You should judge me based on the content I create rather than me reads. Otherwise, I'd like to know why I am bad? I've maintained about a 50% win rate as Town on this site for a long time, so please tell me why I am bad.

[Quick]

overarticulation is part of devle's wolf range. yes, i read all the gamess he linked, and this seems to align with his wolf game.

Links or it didn't happen.

[Quick]

I don't like how quickly all of the sudden Mutant is getting these votes. Seem like a Scum fabricated wagon to me.

except it's very clearly an organic wagon with mainly town votes on it

That is very easy to claim and very difficult to back up so I am going to have to ask you to tell me how you know that.

the speed a wagon forms isnt ai for starters

-eddie

LOL.

[Quick]

if you can't tell me who the scum are, you can't throw out the blanket statement that it's scum produced. speed of wagon means nothing if the composition is entirely villa.

gtfo

I will defer to my experience than... Most of the time when a wagon grows that fast, it's not on Scum.

...because most of the time when a wagon forms it's not on scum. probably 85% of the time in fact.

so what makes this one different?

[Quick]

overarticulation is part of devle's wolf range. yes, i read all the gamess he linked, and this seems to align with his wolf game.

Links or it didn't happen.

I didn't post the above, but it literally says the games he linked so I'm not sure what links you're asking for

Obviously I am looking for examples of how his game is similar/different here.

[Quick]

if you can't tell me who the scum are, you can't throw out the blanket statement that it's scum produced. speed of wagon means nothing if the composition is entirely villa.

gtfo

I will defer to my experience than... Most of the time when a wagon grows that fast, it's not on Scum.

...because most of the time when a wagon forms it's not on scum. probably 85% of the time in fact.

so what makes this one different?

Do you understand how math works?

No, I don't, explain it to me like I am 5.

[Quick]

if you can't tell me who the scum are, you can't throw out the blanket statement that it's scum produced. speed of wagon means nothing if the composition is entirely villa.

gtfo

I will defer to my experience than... Most of the time when a wagon grows that fast, it's not on Scum.

...because most of the time when a wagon forms it's not on scum. probably 85% of the time in fact.

so what makes this one different?

[Quick]

if you can't tell me who the scum are, you can't throw out the blanket statement that it's scum produced. speed of wagon means nothing if the composition is entirely villa.

gtfo

I will defer to my experience than... Most of the time when a wagon grows that fast, it's not on Scum.

...because most of the time when a wagon forms it's not on scum. probably 85% of the time in fact.

so what makes this one different?

think about what you're asking for 5 minutes and come back to me.

I can't think about any single topic for 5 min so just explain it.

[Quick]

Why is any of your scumreads more than 25% likely to be right?

My SRs D1 are bad. What is your point?

[Quick]

No, I don't, explain it to me like I am 5.

Can you two seriously stop spamming the thread with this inane BS.

Quick, this is the convo:

Quick - when wagons are this fast they're typically on town
Mom - when wagons happen they're typically on town,

the speed of the wagon doesn't change that fact

He's saying the wagon being fast or slow does not change that wagons are more likely to be on town than on scum.

Oh, My experience says differently. See I come from playing on MU where they do this sort of Wagon analysis a lot. Why would a site (dedicated to Mafia) spend so much time on something that isn't indicative of alignment?