Would also vote Lady Angel, Guilty Lion, or FA_Q
Open 734: Paris Mafia (13-player variation) - Game Over
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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That is an aggressive amount of votes without anyone doubling up.
Vote: Sesq
Would also vote Lady Angel, Guilty Lion, or FA_Q-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Would also vote Doubting Thomas.-
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I may or I may not - I definitely don't like bad noise to content ratios in posting.In post 17, DoubtingThomas wrote:you don't like good music??
If you believe that - why aren't you voting them?In post 18, Eragon wrote:
I do believe this person just claimed scum.In post 11, FA_Q2 wrote:I remember your avi lane. Been awhile.
VOTE: eragon
Cats - cats are terrible. Dogs are WAY better. Everyone knows cat people are always scum.
This game EZ
If you don't believe that - why do you think the joke is worth posting?-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Those are actual thoughts if you note that I express lack of joy in seeing people not start creating wagons and that I specifically cited all the posters who had come in at a certain point and continued empty RVS instead of trying to get something going - and also the empty poster who is, functionally, part and parcel of the same issue.In post 21, Eragon wrote:And what’s with the “I would also vote [4 people]”
Are those actual thoughts or RvS
Why did it not come across clearly to you?
Would you like to move your vote to sesq?
If no - why not?
If yes - please do so.-
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The votes mean as much as they ever do unless we're not allowed to lynch someone yet, which isn't a rule I'm aware ofIn post 25, Eragon wrote:Becuase it’s RvS and the votes mean nothing?
WHy do you think they were doing it in a pro-town way?In post 25, Eragon wrote:The so-called “continuing RvS” is pretty much through post 15-16(not sure exact), and it’s just the way to start the game.
If you don't - then why try to talk me down from taking it as scum indicative?
Because you were early enough it was less certain that you were intentionally avoiding creating wagons.In post 25, Eragon wrote:And why did you not call me out for RvS’in or the other person you didn’t mention?(I forget)
Were you intentionally avoiding creating a wagon?
Why do you see them as less scumm (or A50 as more scummy) than your current vote?In post 25, Eragon wrote:I’m not moving my vote to Sesq Becuase I see no reason to see them as scum,
If you find them equal why not move?
If you think the votes are meaningless - why not move?-
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If you think I have a rep as dangerous scum, why in the world are you town sorting me and buddying this early?In post 26, Almost50 wrote:I also feel goos about Thor (one of the most dangerous scum players in multi-ball)-
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Burden of proficiency.In post 35, Fink wrote:Also, hi Thor. Any particular reason for sesq over the others?
Unvote: Sesq
Vote: Doubting Thomas-
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Presuming it's a decent case (to which I actually reply 'meh') why do you oppose the Mime wincon exactly?In post 45, FA_Q2 wrote:Basically the same Q goes to thor though - why vote there when there is a decent case (at least for this early) that he is the mime? It feels like you just want to jump on any wagon at all....
I do want to jump on any wagon I support right now, and this is the largest one in current existence and I don't town read him, so why shouldn't I be voting him?
And yet they are more alike than different. ::shrug::In post 49, Eragon wrote:Random votes hold the same power as regular votes, but not the same meaning
A vote in post 14 /=/ a vote in post 73, one random and he other with reasoning
If RVS is never alignment indicative how do we ever get out of RVS to where votes have more meaning?In post 49, Eragon wrote:I don’t think it’s scum indicative or pro-town. RvS is purely NAI, and I can’t see why RvS would be AI ever.
I agree it is timing - that is immaterial to my tell. The people whose timing gave them greater info should have reacted to that info if they are playing pro-town. Failure to do so makes them a valid lynch option at this point. Hope this is making sense to you.In post 49, Eragon wrote:Early enough is just based on timing getting to the thread.
I don’t think anyone voting in RvS is trying to avoid creating a wagon, it’s jsut voting someone randomly, hence Random. Voting. stage.
I agree that is one way to consider RVS - I think it is a pro-scum/poor town play mindset however and do not support town players playing that way.
Because you have an equal scum read to them as someone you are voting - so what's the difference? Is your goal *not* to apply pressure with your vote? What are you doing voting if you need a case?In post 49, Eragon wrote:Becuase why would I put a third vote on someone that’s had 1 RvS vote, that is NAI, and no reasoning?
There are varying levels of random.In post 49, Eragon wrote:And the first RvS vote is always meaningless, becuase its random.-
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@EragonIn post 53, Thor665 wrote:Because you have an equal scum read to them as someone you are voting - so what's the difference? Is your goal *not* to apply pressure with your vote? What are you doing voting if you need a case?-
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Someone already asked me this - my answer remains the same; burden of proficiency.In post 61, lane0168 wrote:If it's because they didn't vote, wouldn't it only make sense to vote the last one? I'd assume the longer it goes on the more scummy in your eyes. And not exactly sure why sesq
Is there something about that answer you don't grok?
@EragonIn post 58, Thor665 wrote:
@EragonIn post 53, Thor665 wrote:Because you have an equal scum read to them as someone you are voting - so what's the difference? Is your goal *not* to apply pressure with your vote? What are you doing voting if you need a case?-
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The fear of lynching a Mime Day 1 is so tiny it should barely be considered - the only danger comes on a day *after* we lynch a Mime and no Mimes are nightkilled.In post 84, Lady Angel wrote:That being said, the possibility of lynching a mime actually makes me kind of scared to lynch. How viable would no lynch be as an option?
Since we're not in that situation I fail to see the issue - can you describe why no lynching is beneficial in catching the Mimes and Mafia? If not - that sort of answers your question for you, yeah?
I would consider it roughly equivalent.In post 87, FA_Q2 wrote:If you think the case is meh then do you think it is a better or worse case than 'did not create a wagon with first post?'-
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http://www.letmegooglethat.com/?q=grokIn post 95, lane0168 wrote:Well I don't know what grok is...
Yes.In post 95, lane0168 wrote:But burden of proficiency eh? Do we know each other? Have we ever played with each other? Should I know you? I don't know what burden of proficiency has anything to do with it. Explain that.
I don't think we know each other.
I don't think we've played together.
I don't know if you should know me - should you? Have I suggested you should in any way? This is weird.
Here's an explanation of burden of proficiency; http://www.letmegooglethat.com/?q=burden+of+proficiency
tl:dr - he's a good enough player I hold him to a higher standard than players I am less familiar with.
Make sense to you now?-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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I literally explained how I was using it.
Are you intentionally trying to be dense or did my actual explanation translate to what you're saying here?
I don't mind explaining myself, but if you're playing dense for reactions I'm already bored.-
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To create more pressure, elicit stronger reactions from people for or against the wagon, and to advance the possibility of a lynch.In post 104, Eragon wrote:there is no difference from changing an RvS vote to a vote that isnt my, so why would i do it?
Why wouldn't you move?
To repeat myself;In post 106, lane0168 wrote:As far as I can tell you explained it as "burden of proficiency". So please, explain it again because I seem to misunderstand how sesq not finding scum yet makes him scum.
To restate the original question you asked me;In post 101, Thor665 wrote:tl:dr - he's a good enough player I hold him to a higher standard than players I am less familiar with.
"Why are you voting Sesq over some people who did lackluster non-wagon votes later, wouldn't doing it later make them more suspect than him?"
Taken together - I consider the lackluster voting potentially scummy because they're not advancing town wincon.
BoP on Sesq is a base standard of - I believe moreso about him than the others that he should know better.
Make sense now?-
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Lane?In post 112, GuiltyLion wrote:okay so I think A50, Thor, DT, probably Eragon, maybe lane all town-
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You came in terrible and then reacted with coverup activity.In post 122, DoubtingThomas wrote:
you have your vote on me. you dont want to ask him why he town reads me?In post 119, Thor665 wrote:
Lane?In post 112, GuiltyLion wrote:okay so I think A50, Thor, DT, probably Eragon, maybe lane all town
I can understand someone deciding the coverup activity is legit though I would disagree with the conclusion.
I am honestly left with no idea why anyone would see Lane as town.
Do you think I should be honestly left with no idea why someone could see you as town? If so - start playing better?-
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I'm not sure if he is - but thus far the extent of his efforts have been a very aggressively pedantic and misrepresentative series of questions/attacks on me and then kind of awkwardly stepping back on it when called on the issue.In post 128, GuiltyLion wrote:
yes Lane - why is he scum?In post 119, Thor665 wrote:
Lane?In post 112, GuiltyLion wrote:okay so I think A50, Thor, DT, probably Eragon, maybe lane all town
I would think, at the very least, the question of whether it was an intentional misrep would keep him in the null category and am at a loss as to why you have him in a town lean category.
Clarify?-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Just to walk you through his posting, here's a quick summation;
Here's his explanation of his vote on me which, based on his later explanations, is pretty suspect to begin with.In post 79, lane0168 wrote:You don't have to respond with "I got us out of RVs didn't I?" But I think your questions on the way there were just.... I need to find the words.
This is a strange non-sequitur which kind of acts like I'm up to something but that I literally did nothing to trigger (and when I asked him about it he ducked the question)In post 95, lane0168 wrote:Well I don't know what grok is... But burden of proficiency eh?Do we know each other? Have we ever played with each other? Should I know you?I don't know what burden of proficiency has anything to do with it. Explain that.
The bold is a direct misrep - especially considering in the post he's responding to I explicitly described how I was applying the tell.In post 102, lane0168 wrote:This logical fallacy is based on the assumption that renowned players are expected to find scum. The attacker asserts that because the player in question has not yet found (enough) scum, they themselves are more likely to be scum...
So because he didn't find scum by the 4th post... He's the most likely to be scum?
I honestly thought you were confused about what burden of proficiency and were using it incorrectly
The line immediately after the misrep acts like this is something he's been analyzing for a while (even though he was the second person to ask me the same question and needed to have th eanswer repeated to him - which looks to me like a fake scumhunting tell.)
He's called on the misrep and then asks me to explain again rather than offering up his reasoning to have reached the analysis conclusion of me not understanding the tell (never mind that if he had decided I was dense and was using the tell name wrong that there is no evidence to suggest that is remotely scummy)In post 106, lane0168 wrote:As far as I can tell you explained it as "burden of proficiency". So please, explain it again because I seem to misunderstand how sesq not finding scum yet makes him scum.
It's not a pretty progression of thought. It reads like he found something he thinks he could paint as "wrong" and attacked it rather than finding something he thinks is scummy.
Now, yes, he may just be sloppy town, I am debating that - but to have him as town anything at this stage boggles my mind.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Straight upgrade.
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Straight downgradeIn post 135, innocentvillager wrote:you're going to be disappointed im super rusty and terrible at this game
Why did you think that?In post 134, lane0168 wrote:This is where I thought you were confused about what it was... I thought you were applying it to you and I?
There's literally nothing either you or I said to draw that conclusion from.
I asked you about that earlier and you never responded.
It was exactly in that post - I quoted it for you in our last exchange.In post 134, lane0168 wrote:When you said you already explained it, I thought I'd find it in the posts where you talked about burden of proficiency. I didn't know you were referencing our conversation.
Okay.In post 134, lane0168 wrote:But my vote isn't about that. It was your early game. Which I haven't addressed yet. I understand it looks as though i had attempted to "find the words" so I can't fault you for thinking that. But I haven't.
Guess it won't matter now that you're leaping onto Sesq.
But then I don't think you're likely to convince me you're scumhunting anytime soon either, so...
Almost, could we please not go down this rage tunnel thing again - haven't you moved past this habit yet? You and I both know there are sloppy and skillful town who are going to act that way and I rarely see the rage wagon trigger particularly useful feedback - I know it's happy to go down that pah and I still do it too much myself, but I actually like his alignment's odds to be town for calling out one of the more active and generically town read slots at this juncture, yeah?In post 145, Almost50 wrote:So, we play to "read".. yet when there's nothing to read it is scummy to say so? We play to "find scum", what when nobody's been posting anything of substance and/or AI it is still my job to find scum based on "void"??
I'll be damned if this doesn't flip scum. My vote is stuck here until this slot is dead "one way or the other".-
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Sure, but you know I've seen you go into a hard tunnel based on standards before - it doesn't always end well.In post 162, Almost50 wrote:@Thor: I'm not at all angry. It's a legit read.
You have straws - the straws might mean something, sure, but you're extroverting their meaning at a level way beyond what they deserve.
What's your take on my Lane case?In post 162, Almost50 wrote:This is more or less where I am eight now, so make a case on someone I'm not Mime reading and I'll follow.
Where do you get that he's not pushing it? He is absolutely pushing it - maybe not in the most efficient way humanely possible, but he's pushing it as much or more than basically anyone else is pushing their cases at the moment. This feels like an empty attack, yeah?In post 163, innocentvillager wrote:since for some reason Almost doesn't want to push my wagon despite me being his most confident scumread, can you explain his argument to me? It seems like you kind of understand where he's coming from but I don't
I would say the quickest way to explain it is to say "go do a search for games where Almost is town, and just read how he plays" Yes, he does the same as scum, but that's beside the point. The core revelation is that he tends to (much like myself, which is why I'm sympathetic to his position) get a burr up his backside when people "are not playing right".
You did something he considers inherently poor play, so the working theory from that is you're scum.
It seems like a fairly clear case even if you don't agree to it - why is his stance coming across as confusing and not being pushed to you?
If my case gives you shudders then address me about the shudders - otherwise you're not scumhunting and certainly avoiding trying to sort me.In post 163, innocentvillager wrote:also your post gives me the shudders but people are townreading you for some reason I'm probably just not seeing so i'll let that go
I'm pretty sure people are towning me for a mix of activity and me being willing to state some opinions clearly.
Sesq seems like an easy lynch.In post 163, innocentvillager wrote:honestly idk what's going on i'll revisit this tmr
I'm personally more down for DT or Lane at this stage, but I'll admit to not hating the Sesq lynch because...hey, it's an easy lynch for a reason.
Most of the deadness is lack of activity and people not really planting on cases. I support you helping to combat that.-
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I actually haven't been pushing Lane overly hard - and indeed the extent of my push is based off;In post 176, RockyHorror wrote:Thor, I'm a bit confused. You've been pushing lane pretty hard recently, but your vote is still on DT*, and there isn't a whole lot save for a few passing comments about in your ISO to explain that read.
*Who by the way is apparently V/LA until deadline? Come on...
1. A person offering a town read on him and me explaining why I question it.
2. A person expressing disinterest with a DT vote and me asking about his opinion on my other prime read.
So, I fundamentally disagree with your core concept that I'm pushing pretty hard on Lane and dismiss the aspect of your question based on that premise.
That leaves your question at a slightly attacky "hey, explain your read" question. Since you're the first person to ask here;
In short, it can be summed up as "everything people are calling him a Mime over except that you should apply my expressed indifference towards the idea of Mime hunting as a concern"
To unpack that a bit; I'd expand my core issue to his kind of apathetic lackluster entry paired with a flurry of activity as soon as he got heat over it (and now paired with potential strategic lurk as soon as heat moved off him). Basically he's playing in a way that seems more based on surviving till Day 2 than in finding scum and lynching them.
Make sense?
Also - why do you think I was pushing Lane hard exactly? There is basically nothing to support that idea in my posts or actions.
Also, would you vote either Lane or DT over Sesq? I would happily argue that the extent of the case on Sesq could be applied to either of them by simply changing the names, and then I've presented other aspects against both of them in addition to the Sesq case - so wouldn't that make my push on both of them superior to the Sesq one?-
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Can you describe your process a bit? Not sure how you're getting tone but still need to read the posts.In post 174, Eragon wrote:So far, based off tone I have like IV, but I’ll take a look later when I acually have time to read the posts-
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You have succesfully argued that I expressed a scumread and described it.In post 179, RockyHorror wrote:On that note though, I do disagree that you haven't been pushing Lane. 132 was a response to Lion's townread, but you make comments like "I am honestly left with no idea why anyone would see Lane as town." in 125 and "But then I don't think you're likely to convince me you're scumhunting anytime soon either, so... " in 161, and you even just referred to it as your case on him in 173. It read as more aggressive than you're indicating, but that may just be a play style difference?
I am not sure why you consider that aggressive either.
If you puzzle it out, let me know.
How do you compare that from Sesq with, for example the nearly identical behavior of Lane who voted me for reasons he can't describe, attacked me for reasons he couldn't support, went back to the non-describable reasons, then hard moved to Sesq in support of your basically unexplained case there?In post 179, RockyHorror wrote:Sesq gets more scumpoints for this imo:In post 90, Sesq wrote:not changing my vote [on lane] because its real this timeIn post 166, Sesq wrote:no idea why i kept my vote on lane. this is why i should keep a notes document. dont really see any reason to move it though and no other scum
I don't know how much I see town with this level of apathy towards the game - this is about as empty of a vote as possible.
Are you seriously considering that not even similar to your expressed Sesq issue here?
Considering the slower gamestate I'm waaaaaaay past votes for pressure myself.In post 179, RockyHorror wrote:I'm a little conflicted about a DT wagon at the moment considering he's V/LA for the rest of the day phase according to the Activity Overview page. This bugs me for a few reasons. If he's town, then he's an inactive and scummy looking townie at best, meaning that if he survives the day he would be an easy mislynch wagon to push Day 2. Buuuuuut I also don't want to give him a free pass just because he's not around. At the very least, there are other people around here that would actually be able to respond to pressure votes and I think that would be a much better use of our time considering the slower gamestate right now.
I think we'll be lucky to get off one wagon and claim at this rate.
I would note that you could bump DT to three votes, and you at least think he's not town aligned.In post 180, Almost50 wrote:Ok.. just checked my notes and lane is totally null. Hecouldbe a goon, a mime or a townie with no "extra points" for me to favour one over the other. But -of course- that's in a vacuum and ignoring all other reads, because if IV is scum I don't see lane as his p and if DT is mime I don't see lane as his p either.
You could bump Lane to three votes because I'd obviously move to make that happen - and your best argument for not lynching him is based off Day 1 suppositions about theory partners...so I'm pretty sure that's a wet noodle argument, yeah?
It's either that or REALLY stepping up your advancement of the IV case, a player that at least myself and one other have expressed either directly or indirectly town vibes on - which means you need to be kicking it into overtime, yeah?-
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Can't really clarify unless you hone in on where I'm losing you.In post 182, innocentvillager wrote:huh??
Okay, let's babystep it (because my answer is 'yes, it is fairly clear')In post 182, innocentvillager wrote:^^ that is a "fairly clear case even if I don't agree to it"?? are we reading the same thing thor
Where is his vote on you being lost exactly? Are you claiming you have no idea at all what his issue is?
I'll agree he's doing 1.In post 182, innocentvillager wrote:what I mean by not pushing is basically just empty voting and proclaiming im scum but (1) not caring about other people voting/not voting me and (2) not explaining/refusing to explain to others why I'm scum. If he does either one of those I'd call it a push but if he's doing neither then imo it updates negatively for him
He's not doing 2 unless I've missed something - I'll note that I just got dinged by Rocky for not describing a case when literally no one had asked me to yet, and might suggest that there is a noted lack of interest in people this game to ask questions prior to hurling suspicion, yeah?
I was being fairly clear I thought - I quoted you describing your primary Sesq suspicion and made a direct compare/contrast of it to Lane's play and asked why one was a primary suspect and the other was kind of a "meh" read by your own words.In post 183, RockyHorror wrote:I don't know where you're getting that from. I specifically said that I was okay with a lane vote because of his lack of activity, and even mentioned that I saw him potentially buddying me with his sesq vote. I just think my vote is better positioned as is at the moment.
It's great that you suspect him, I think you *should* suspect him. What I want to know is why I can't get your vote on him when the case is basically identical to your other case - and the extent of your answer is "my current vote is better positioned" which is nonsense because the best you've argued for that is "pressure to get content" and, frankly, Lane could do with that just as much as Sesq could, so again - what's the point in not moving if asked?
Clearly I do, I've expressed a case on Lane, have called Lane one of my prime scumreads, and have suggested that the case on Sesq could be applied to Lane (or DT) whole hog.In post 183, RockyHorror wrote:Do you have an issue with my vote being on sesq instead of lane right now?
Do you have an issue that locks you to Sesq so hard that can actually be described?
I've actually not played with a fair chunk of this player base.In post 187, innocentvillager wrote:you have a good reputation for scum which obviously makes me slightly more skeptical when everyone townreads you. but everyone else also knows that, but they're still townreading you anyway, and I assume they know your meta better
I would like to think I also have a rep as decent town, no?
What did I try to coach Almost on outside of advising him not to rage tunnel you?In post 187, innocentvillager wrote:that one post you wrote that I felt weird about felt oddly manipulative but im not sure i have more than that gutshot. Maybe you're coaching Almost or something although i hate positing these low probability scenarios.
And wouldn't that suggest I'm as much potentially your partner as I am his?-
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Well, feel free to have my admission I did exactly that for your case needs.In post 206, innocentvillager wrote:also what. and yeah there was a weird buddy vibe to it
Very hipsterIn post 207, innocentvillager wrote:what i mean is im less inclined to TR you from everyone else TRing you, like you're pretty null for me rn ill keep you around for now
Do you dislike the DT or Lane wagons particularly? Or do you like the Sesq one for some reason I'm missing?-
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Considering I would like to have us already have someone at L-1 at this stage, and considering that I don't think pressure announced as pressure = pressure.In post 211, RockyHorror wrote:Look... FMPOV this is a tvt back and forth, Thor. Unless you're townreading sesq (at which point I would really need to know why), there shouldn't be an issue with me pressuring her. We still have over 4 days to deadline - I should be on and fairly active for at least 3 of those days. *Just to clarify again - I don't disagree with your lane read and I'm not against his vote/lynch, but Sesq is a top wagon right now, and I'm okay keeping my vote here.*
Yeah, I'm not thrilled with your current vote.
I would be worried if Almost wasn't being confrontational.In post 214, Fink wrote:To people who have played with Almost50 before, especially Thor,
Are posts like this, particularly the tone of them pretty standard coming from him? Or is this more confrontational than you'd expect?-
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Lady Angel needs replace and Unreal Seal owe everyone an apology (and, frankly, needs a replace).Sesq - 4 - RockyHorror, lane0168, innocentvillager, GuiltyLion
DoubtingThomas - 3 - Fink, Thor665, Almost50
Almost50 - 1 - Eragon
lane0168Guilty Lion - 1 - Sesq
Eragon - 1 - FA_Q2
Not Voting - DoubtingThomas, Lady Angel, UnrealSeal
Rocky needs to learn what using all the time means.
Eragon - seriously, what do you think your useless Almost vote is doing right now with two days left? You should hop onto Sesq, DT, or the new Guilty wagon.
FA_Q2 - same thing, you're sitting on this boring Eragon wagon and I can't even remember the last time you called him scummy and if you offered me a million dollars right now I couldn't describe your case. Your vote and your play is doing nothing with two days till deadline.
Both of you should move your votes.
Sesq gets a pass because at least he's, in theory, pushing a new angle, but he really needs to be aggressive on that one to have it matter.
To be frank, Lane, IV, and Fink aren't doing much for their wagons either. But at least their votes are in a power position, so that's something.
I think DT is an okay lynch due to the case I've already described
Sesq I'm a bit leery on because the last minute activity at least feels...unique, usually unique thoughts trend towards being town thoughts in my experience. Certainly if the goal was survival a DT vote would be smarter at this stage and I don't think Sesq is dumb.
I'd also be not uninterested in a lol-fast UnrealSeal wagon, the fact he's not up for replacement and has contributed what he's contributed curls my toes.
The mini wagons sadden me.
Whoever told me two days ago how we had so much time still saddens me.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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@FA_Q - you can disregard some of the abuse in my above post, on this read through I realize you did move.
All other abuse is still factual and deserved-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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You're being hurt and confrontational.In post 248, RockyHorror wrote:Since you're obviously trying to be king of this town though, please educate me about time management in Mafia.
It's a simple reality - has town used its time well?
If you think the answer is anything other than 'no' I can't help you.
We should have put someone to L-1 days ago.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Agreed, so the annoyance at me pointing out the issue and acting like I'm trying to take some sort of weird leadership role is what exactly?In post 250, RockyHorror wrote:3 players are either up for replacement or about to be and there are 3 others that were MIA over the weekend. Obviously town hasn't used its time well.
Why not?In post 251, RockyHorror wrote:I really don't want to lol lynch a slot that has 0 AI content like Lady/Unreal, and the DT slot is being replaced. I'm still okay with my sesq vote.
I would lay dollars to doughnuts that at least two scum are in the bottom third least active posters.
Well, for starters - there hasn't exactly been any argument to suggest he should be unvoted.In post 253, Sesq wrote:also, why havent people unvoted dt? i want people voting dt to answer this individually.
Second up, the only place I'd move off him at this exact moment is to vote you, and I expressed my reasoning there already.
Am I missing something?-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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You would unvote with 2 days left and the only other wagon of note being yourself?
If you're town, you're playing iffy.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Do you think all the other wagons with more votes are on town?
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Also, if you think he's scum - what are you planning to do to get him lynched?
Because unless you do something - he won't be lynched.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Generally it helps when you ask some*one* to do something.In post 267, Sesq wrote:id rather someone just Smurfing respond to my read on guiltylion. nobody has. not even him
Group asking, or not asking and then being annoyed at lack of response to either situation is strangely common.
I stand by my previous commentary - I find him null. I don't see much meat in your case, and frankly considering how I could flip your name into his name and have the case make just as much sense I'm worried that you do find meat in it.
Even taking out the people who I think are lurking for legit reasons this game's pace is glacial.In post 272, innocentvillager wrote:
wait but also whyIn post 271, innocentvillager wrote:
soldIn post 254, Thor665 wrote:I would lay dollars to doughnuts that at least two scum are in the bottom third least active posters.
There is a strategy at play here, and it's called lurk.
I am also of the opinion in two player scum teams generally there is a active/active enough teammate and one who opts to lurk. Expand that with two teams and you've got a solid explanation for why this game is extra slow soup.
The only bother is the number of town helping to occlude it.
In post 275, GuiltyLion wrote:can the three voters restate the case on him because I really don't think he's done anything scummy and I'd like a fresh take on why he's the best place for your vote
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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I don't rule out teams Day 1.In post 277, innocentvillager wrote:can you state your scumreads based on that reasoning? sounds like you're ruling out quite some teams with that
If I had scumreads I felt were remotely worth sharing I'd do so, I'm content with the three I've already offered. And considering I'm only offering two (and both of them pretty soft) town reads I really see little value in discussing who I'd be willing to lynch.
Sesq is basically a scum read with a slight "hurm" based on him deciding to panic push GL.In post 278, innocentvillager wrote:okay he addressed this self-case thing I think but whats your read on sesq, given the bolded that you said?
Generally I'm thinking he's a Mime right now. It explains a lot.
I rarely support no lynches - but let's at least be honest with ourselves that this is a laughable threat to try to leash Mafia with.In post 287, Almost50 wrote:The downside is if Mafia decide to hunt for TPRs instead, but that can be dealt with by assigning the kills, and if Mafia do not shoot the proposed target then I'd be alright siding by the Mimes over them (it's like "I came to you first and you refused to cooperate, so it was your choice").
If you're endorsing a no lynch you have to recognize Mafia are going to shoot for a PR just as likely as they are to shoot for a Mime because both matter to them roughly equally at this stage. You also assuredly don't have my support in the idea of game throwing for the Mimes if Mafia on Night 1 shoots somewhere random.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here; how do Sesq's Mime status and FA_Q2's scum status connect in your mind?In post 338, GuiltyLion wrote:yeah it's feeling more and more like Sesq is more likely a mime with scum!FA_Q2 voting it
honestly I'm still fine with lynching the slot, if it's a Mime flip that's not the end of the world
@A50 - Sure.
@Lane - I'm amazed that there is difficulty getting a wagon on you.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Considering the relative willingness most other wagons have felt for reasons that basically describe what you're doing - yeah, I'm a bit amazed.In post 352, lane0168 wrote:But honestly you can't be that amazed considering the quality of game being produced so far by most.
Are you *not* noticing that? Like, you're amazed that Sesq has a wagon on him and is pushing a wagon on Guilty both of which can be described as 'meh, low content posting' while you sit there openly admitting you're low content posting with me being the only one bothered by your play?
Honestly?
Considering that, if you're town, that there are two Mafia as well as two slots that should be actively trying to get you to scumread them...well, that just goes back to my reason for wanting to lynch youIn post 352, lane0168 wrote:I can't proceed until I find something that I think is concrete evidence of scum thinking. That is when I get aggressive, but I don't see it. I just don't see it. Why?-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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What makes FA_Q2 stand out from the other lazy voters on the lazy wagon?In post 354, GuiltyLion wrote:
They're both not showing me any evidence of being townIn post 344, Thor665 wrote:Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here; how do Sesq's Mime status and FA_Q2's scum status connect in your mind?
Sesq is aggressively playing scummy whereas FA_Q2 looks a lot more like he's trying to avoid the spotlight while sheeping onto the convenient wagon
It's not a connection between the two necessarily, it's just how I feel about assessing their slots and a possible explanation for the gamestate
I mean, basically half the game is lazy votes, so why him over, say, Fink doubling down on an RVS position, or IV voting Sesq because Sesq gets reads when voted, or me sticking to cases I last described eight pages ago?-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Yeah, but that they chose Sesq over you is a thing.In post 357, lane0168 wrote:I most certainly am noticing that. But what's not amazing to me, is people not jumping from a leading wagon to a non wagon for essentially the same case.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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It is not strange that people want ot lynch scum over Lane and I never said anything of the sort - what I did say was that Lane perfectly matches a large number of cases people are pushing, yet I'm the only one looking at him and *that* is suspect (which it is). Want to debate my actual statements instead of a straw man?In post 359, Nero Cain wrote:Is is strange that ppl want to lynch scum over Lane? Also, you seem content sitting on a not scum wagon so your whine that we aren't lynching Lane seems odd.
You haven't done mch to convince me you're not a scum slot - your predecessor was scummy and this has been very lacksidasical Nero play thus far. Are you claiming I should have a town read on your slot for some reason? Why?
I like the idea of progressing the game, but the A50 run is pretty weak.In post 389, Jingle wrote:Thor, my wagon has just as much steam as yours, a loud mouthed asshole who actually cares about pushing it through, and managed to destroy two vanity wagons. Can I interest you in the sweet smell of actually progressing the game?
Do you actually townread Nero and/or Lane right now? If so - why?-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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viewtopic.php?p=10406398#p10406398In post 404, Nero Cain wrote:
Ah, fair enuff. Whats the case on Lane?In post 403, Thor665 wrote:what I did say was that Lane perfectly matches a large number of cases people are pushing, yet I'm the only one looking at him and *that* is suspect (which it is).-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Who is doing B?In post 406, lane0168 wrote:@thor, why is it suspect that either A) people disagree with you or B) people agree that the case is equally strong as several others and don't see the point in starting a new wagon that is equally likely to flip scum?-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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I think the possibility I'm currently seeing is you're arguing the point from emptiness just to try to beat it down. Bringing up counterpoints youc can't support is not an interesting or pro-town conversation.In post 409, lane0168 wrote:
Couldn't tell you. Is there another possibility of why people aren't following you? If you think it's exclusively that people disagree with you, why is that suspect?In post 408, Thor665 wrote:
Who is doing B?In post 406, lane0168 wrote:@thor, why is it suspect that either A) people disagree with you or B) people agree that the case is equally strong as several others and don't see the point in starting a new wagon that is equally likely to flip scum?
So basically the town read is mostly predicated on the value of your A50 read?In post 415, Jingle wrote:I do think Nero is likely town, although it's a weak read at best. 1st, his jump to A50 reads as a genuine scumread. 2nd, his reads progression about a50 matches up with mine fairly nicely. 3rd, the posts in which he does content (particularly 299) feel like they're actually going somewhere.
That's a silly stance.
It certainly is in size and support...for...some reason.In post 415, Jingle wrote: Regardless, I think that my A50 wagon is clearly superior to your Nero wagon.
@Sesq- hi, I think A50 is town and you're a Mime.
I'm stating Mjolnir intent on you.
Please claim.
I'm also willing to take non-presence as a scum claim, so keep that in mind.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Considering I straight up said in the hammer intent post that I townread A50...In post 452, Eragon wrote:You think sesq is a mime but just stated hammer intent?
(I understand not worrying about the mimes until we actually lynch one, but still hammering someone you think is mime is weird
You're literally quoting posts that contain me explaining why I think it's scummy.In post 453, lane0168 wrote:
What's my counterpoint? I simply asked what is suspect, and you keep not answering it. Twice in fact. Now you're just throwing shade for no reason.In post 451, Thor665 wrote:
I think the possibility I'm currently seeing is you're arguing the point from emptiness just to try to beat it down. Bringing up counterpoints youc can't support is not an interesting or pro-town conversation.In post 409, lane0168 wrote:
Couldn't tell you. Is there another possibility of why people aren't following you? If you think it's exclusively that people disagree with you, why is that suspect?In post 408, Thor665 wrote:
Who is doing B?In post 406, lane0168 wrote:@thor, why is it suspect that either A) people disagree with you or B) people agree that the case is equally strong as several others and don't see the point in starting a new wagon that is equally likely to flip scum?
So basically the town read is mostly predicated on the value of your A50 read?In post 415, Jingle wrote:I do think Nero is likely town, although it's a weak read at best. 1st, his jump to A50 reads as a genuine scumread. 2nd, his reads progression about a50 matches up with mine fairly nicely. 3rd, the posts in which he does content (particularly 299) feel like they're actually going somewhere.
That's a silly stance.
It certainly is in size and support...for...some reason.In post 415, Jingle wrote: Regardless, I think that my A50 wagon is clearly superior to your Nero wagon.
@Sesq- hi, I think A50 is town and you're a Mime.
I'm stating Mjolnir intent on you.
Please claim.
I'm also willing to take non-presence as a scum claim, so keep that in mind.
To restate it for the third time for you - I think running up one person for 'Case A' while ignoring another person that 'Case A' exemplifies is very questionable for both parties involved.
What *did* happen was you tried multiple times to try to handwave my suspicion by making up cases that *YOU* didn't back up.
I'm very happy there's wagon interest in you now though, so I can do this;
Vote: Lane
Feel free to quote me avoiding answering your questions.
I'll wait-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Here's me "avoiding explaining my issue" to Lane.In post 358, Thor665 wrote:
Yeah, but that they chose Sesq over you is a thing.In post 357, lane0168 wrote:I most certainly am noticing that. But what's not amazing to me, is people not jumping from a leading wagon to a non wagon for essentially the same case.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Here I am explaining it to Nero when he asked.In post 403, Thor665 wrote:
It is not strange that people want ot lynch scum over Lane and I never said anything of the sort - what I did say was that Lane perfectly matches a large number of cases people are pushing, yet I'm the only one looking at him and *that* is suspect (which it is). Want to debate my actual statements instead of a straw man?In post 359, Nero Cain wrote:Is is strange that ppl want to lynch scum over Lane? Also, you seem content sitting on a not scum wagon so your whine that we aren't lynching Lane seems odd.
You haven't done mch to convince me you're not a scum slot - your predecessor was scummy and this has been very lacksidasical Nero play thus far. Are you claiming I should have a town read on your slot for some reason? Why?
Gosh, I am working so hard to avoid explaining my thought here.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Here's Lane hard dodging me questioning his defense of himself - for anyone not keeping track.In post 409, lane0168 wrote:
Couldn't tell you. Is there another possibility of why people aren't following you? If you think it's exclusively that people disagree with you, why is that suspect?In post 408, Thor665 wrote:
Who is doing B?In post 406, lane0168 wrote:@thor, why is it suspect that either A) people disagree with you or B) people agree that the case is equally strong as several others and don't see the point in starting a new wagon that is equally likely to flip scum?
Lane then claimed that I'm not explaining my case and that he isn't trying to make a point against it?
Seriously now.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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@Jingle - That tell is as valid as saying 'people that agree with me are town and people that disagree are scum'.
It's a stance, sure, but I don't think it's less silly than the above.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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The theory benefit of choosing option 2 over option 1 is that, if Mafia kill the Watcher we still get info if they have useful info.In post 583, Jingle wrote:We do still have to come to a consensus over the three possibilities Watcher wise.
Watcher outs if they have useful information.
Watcher hypoclaim.
Watcher holds cards close to chest regardless and we pray for mafia to miss.
I oppose option three, personally and endorse option 2, but it is theoretically a valid course of action. Very high risk, possibly very high reward. If we commit to one of the courses, everyone needs to agree to abide by it.
The reality negative of option 2 over option 1 is it increases the ability of the Mafia to locate the Watcher regardless of the Watcher having useful info.
Wouldn't that make #1 the better option hands down? The only benefit requires the info to be useful to begin with, yeah?
What am I missing.
I'd advocate doing a faux vote where we can at least provide info on who we would lynch today if we were to lynch.
I'd probably be looking to lynch FA_Q today - I think lynching on the wagon makes immense sense and think any Vig and Mafia shots targeted at the wagon would benefit town.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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What if I was a Watcher and had a result - why would you oppose outing that today exactly?In post 594, RockyHorror wrote:Got a good laugh out of that, sesq. Thank you.
Also good with a no lynch today as well. No one should out anything at this point.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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If you read the sentences before that one wherein I state my intent to discuss who I would hypothetically lynch today then maybe you'd disagree with it less.
Considering I didn't vote...just saying, reading is tech-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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This was confusing?In post 593, Thor665 wrote:I'd advocate doing a faux vote where we can at least provide info on who we would lynch today if we were to lynch.
I'd probably be looking to lynch FA_Q today - I think lynching on the wagon makes immense sense and think any Vig and Mafia shots targeted at the wagon would benefit town.
You even had to cut out the first part of what you quoted because by including it you would have needed to reference why I was saying 'probably'.
Condescension holds methinks - it was either an intentional misrep or the fault is in you not reading properly.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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If you were able to lynch the mime safely who would you want to lynch?-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Unless the scum are daft they shot for Mime - what makes you think A50 is the Mafia shot as opposed to Sesq?In post 604, Jingle wrote:In hindsight, yeah, a single result on A50 is probably just immediately out, because trading the watcher for one of the scum is great for us.
I would be confused by anyone thinking A50 is the Vig at this stage.In post 608, Fink wrote:Aside from the thing from yesterday, the fact that he thinks he'd be an NK target seems like a standard assumption that's easy to have as mafia. I think if he were as good as people seem to imply and he'd been trying to solve the game, he'd be thinking about things like A50 potentially being Vig and Thor being a more likely Mime candidate.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Is there any reason for that outside of me scumreading a slot that was intentionally trying to be scumread and pointing it out?In post 613, FA_Q2 wrote:I think thor's actions yesterday make him a prime candidate for the other mime.
If it's just 'Thor is on the wagon' yeah, I get the point, though singling me out seems awkward - but is there more to this case you're trying to sell here?
Because I don't think there is, and would challenge you to prove me wrong.-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Your explanation was far weaker than that at the time since I asked 'why' and you responded with nothing - and I was shading you for the weak explanation and unwillingness to move, not specifically for where the vote was.In post 618, RockyHorror wrote:
From the moment I replaced in you were shading me for keeping my vote on sesq when you wanted it on lane instead. The simple explanation of "I find sesq scummier even if you don't" wasn't good enough.In post 615, Thor665 wrote:
Is there any reason for that outside of me scumreading a slot that was intentionally trying to be scumread and pointing it out?In post 613, FA_Q2 wrote:I think thor's actions yesterday make him a prime candidate for the other mime.
If it's just 'Thor is on the wagon' yeah, I get the point, though singling me out seems awkward - but is there more to this case you're trying to sell here?
Because I don't think there is, and would challenge you to prove me wrong.
How is any of that not me scumhunting exactly?-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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Frankly, as I recall, I was willing to get you onto DT too - is he my other Mime partner?-
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Thor665 Papa Smurf
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If that case represents your best argument I'm fine with dropping it also.
It's pretty laughable.-
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