Open 738: Purgatory | LA FIN

[Eragon]

CRAZY DEJA VU @THE WORST @KEYSER @IRREL

ALL WE NEED IS NAUCI

[Eragon]

sup

Eragonna kick some scum butt?

yes my bready friend.

I've played this set-up before , albeit from the opposite side, and it was extremely mind-game fun

[Eragon]

tell me, has creature obv. towned yet?

[Eragon]

btw triple N0 inno on Keyser, TW, and Irrel

[Eragon]

im busy rn studying for 4 major tests in the next 2 days but i just skimmed tw(obviously the worst is first) and gut town

[Eragon]

Spoiler:

wait fuck i forgot me intro-memes



THAT HAS NO RELEVANCE TO THE CURRENT CASE



no one cares about you're premade, weeb, anime, always wins ass



*gulp*

[Eragon]

CRAZY DEJA VU @THE WORST @KEYSER @IRREL

ALL WE NEED IS NAUCI

Now 5/9 out of the playerlist is from Watcher Wanted -- although you forgot about me, Eragon. I guess I will give you a pass this time, since our time together alive in Watcher Wanted was pretty short lived.

sorry ;_;

have a cat

tell me, has creature obv. towned yet?

That's controversial!! Have a read and tell me what you think

Also for reals TRing the fuck outta me Relly and keys?

nah.

the N0 was a joke, about my private dreams.

i do have a gut TR on you through skim, but its nothing strong and i know i shouldn't rush a read on any of you lmao, and i dont have time to dive rn

[Eragon]

I wouldn't worry about it too much I'm really town this time
How are you w creature?

AHA. contradiction spotted...

you were town last time as well!


I'll have to read, but i hear from a lot of people that creature is an easy obv. town so its scary that he hasnt yet idk i dont think i've ever played with them here

[Eragon]

how aboout a deal.

i take time from studying to do part of creature's ISO, say 50-75 posts.

then i leave and do the rest tommorow

[Eragon]

Felt like you were chainlinking mine and Labrat’s lynches.

I’ve seen scum do that recently (Eragon).

I was experiencing those same unsettling feelings.

chainlinking town lynches?

when

0.0

[Eragon]

meh i decided to do the whole thing

im on post 100

[Eragon]

First 10 posts-
-I dont see anything AI, mostly memes/not really content posts

Cool I almost posted in a game that ended months ago

Next 10 posts-i see a few things here
-196 the stuff about replacing out seems like natural interaction? I don’t really know I just kinda like the tone from it
-200 this post gives me strong town pings, specifically saying “dont send me to heaven”

21-30
-202 *pats*
-204 you poor soul.
-218 I dont know where this read comes from? He hasn’t said anything about tw, and all of a sudden “oh hey your probably right on TW”
-219 makes my heart feel warm inside 0.0 but on a serious note It does seem weird, but why would scum say a single intro RvS post reads town? pocket?

31-40
-225 prove it. Insofar you can, this post is fine, but if you aren’t trying, this is probably LAMIST

41-50
-240 personally feel towny tone here, but I also think this is a stretch
-319 why are you bringing this up again?? And the “i wouldn’t notice it myself though” sounds like “oh hey I didn’t get a scum rc so I couldn’t see that”
-323 personally I abhor self-meta, but I know people do it on this site (?) so im in-between here. Reasoning is b/c if someone knows their meta enough to comment about it, can’t they manipulate it? like, creature says “i’d give town reads as scum”
> gives like, 1 townread.
“oh hey I cant be scum”
-329 do you have a response to their vote?

51-60
-330 then does it
-331 can you elaborate a bit more on “he did enough” and why you are hesistant?
-332 towny vibes
-338 I have no idea the context, but I feel towny ping he doesn’t want to do unnatural things.

61-70
-466 isn’t that what you did? (except for saying it outloud)

71-80
-471 town ping, scum would force reads out, town wants to make accurate reads
-479 was that an actual scum read?




81-90
502 do you feel you are doing that this game? And is it normal as all alignments?
504as above town ping, scum would try to force a read
511above

91-100
525 its all well and good to try to make reads the way you want, but its normally good to have some reads by that point of the game… I still like how you aren’t giving in to people forcing you to make reads, as I feel scum would, but I think its about time…
556 mostly calm reaction to the vote, but it also strikes me a bit odd
“ I dont care if you vote me just don’t Lynch me” feels like an indirect way of saying “why the fuck did you vote me”

101-110
558 this made me laugh
568 most people like it when you give reasons for town reads ;_;
please?
572 I dont know whats going on in this post

111-120
580 :3
582 *pat*
611 do it. I dare you.
612 I also want an explanation from lab

121-130
622 why des it matter if he’s an alt?
656 what do you mean? You think volxen is scum, or you think this puts us into judgement day? And if you think volxen is scum explain. And if you think everyone is town, explain.
657 I see that too, but why go pure shade instead of asking WHY rel is sleeping TW?
662 can you explain why you SR volxen?


131-141
666 speak of the devil, please don’t do this. Odd coincidence for the post numbers lmao.
671 so basically your read is he had a wolf pop-in. Got it. But what about the rest of his posts? scummy? Towny but not enough to counter-act, null?
681 IM HERE BISH AND YOU CANT STOP THIS
682 well, its also statisticly likely that at least 1 is scum, based on there being 4/9 players and 3/9 are scum…
684 when did you change the read?

142-155
-685 try to draw a conclusion yourself, as well as asking
-686 MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA
-687 again, you literally need to have worse reads than RNG(i’ve seen it happen) to not have one of these be scum
-688 do you truly believe this?
-691 I think you should
-693 so you don’t acknowledge the fact that you could be scum and people think you might be scum??????? Everyone that scum reads you, no matter what, your skeptical of?
-699 ok.

conclusion:

So, i saw a lot of posts that gave me towny pings and i felt the tone was towny, but i also read a few that just made me go "WTF???" so i don't think i can consider this strong town, but i definitely have a townread here

[Eragon]

[Eragon]

i also liked their start - middle end but the end got a bit wonky.

[Eragon]

[snip keyser stuff]

creature is infamous from the old days for freezing up and zero posting / replacing out as scum.

which he hasnt frozen up right? hes had 155 posts and is one of the highest posters?

his scumgame has developped a lot (refer Heroes Wanted) but he is not a strong force.

again, hes not posting many reads but hes active

he struggles with posting regularly, sorting players, displaying faked nuanced reads and expressing questions in a tangible fashion.

ok this i can see, while he has been regularaly posting, he hasnt really sorted MANY players, and i actually LIKE the fact that he doesn't fake reads, and thats what gives me the townread(or one of the reasons

as scum he also struggles with answering simple questions and providing reads when asked under pressure.

he has given a few reads, and i feel a lot of what he's posted, as well as feeling scum would just bullshit a read or two to answer it instead of taking fire

as town he is very comfortable with his living ITT thing but he's also very rarely unable to handle real time interactions.

but he has done real-time interactions

he does regularly talk about game-related stuff, sure he often doesn't have highly nuanced reads but his reads are at least SOMEWHAT reasoned and usually better than level-0 town, and he is very capable of asking questions and engaging with players. he is also capable of at least pretending to pressure players as town. current scum!Creature meta is basically teasing players with what he thinks is a semblance of his towngame, but in reality I actually think it's easy to sort. Just not as easy as it used to be.

the rest of this is all understandable

Appendix I: things i wish i townread
long name: a generous showing of his entire game related ISO and why it is obvscum bullshit

Spoiler: 9 posts of a 98 post iso

Mafia Role PM

You are a

Goon

(aligned with the town).

Your teammates are: […]
You can talk to them at any time on the mafia chat. [Link]

Each phase you may vote a player in order to send them to Heaven or Hell.

You win when majority of the Mafia is sent to Heaven.
You lose when majority of the Mafia is sent to Hell.

[link] to the game thread.

[/spoiler snipped]

btw

@manatee

, just noticed that you put "aligned with the

town

" in the example mafia role-card

lmao

you can be town

this is unexplained shit but for the sake of the exercise let's pretend it's a real read

{lab}
{null}

What if the team is {Lab, Creature, TW}?

-Kor (to both)

You're probably only right on TW.

i'm someone who has correctly nailed him as scum more than once and who he works well with as town
i had almost zero posted

there is absolutely no chance he's itt lolscumreading me this early and doing nothing about it. but let's pretend he is.

{lab}
{null}
{tw}

(I have good feels so far: not in terms of current tangible reads, but I think nearly everyone who’s been posting will be easier to sort down the line.

Well except for Carmen’s single post

).

Which I read town for some reason

ok then,,,???

{lab, carmen}
{null}
{tw}

Me same level as creature?

Yeah, you're probably below

why when how what who what how when
{lab, carmen}
{null}
{tw, keyser???}

Also if I was scum I'd be more willing to give townreads. I'm rn struggling to get decent reads.

My first thought is I caught scum!tw from Presidents but my second thought is that I could maybe come around
Oh and creature, talk to me more on that slot @tw

He did enough for me to hesitate on

ooook

{lab, carmen}
{tw?}
{null}
{keyser?}

Join us on Keyser?

What? Why?

{lab, carmen}
{tw?}
{null}
{keyser?}


this is a viable wagon option which i've been pushing as a viable wagon option for ages
creature has implied he doesn't townread you and has a free vote

his hesitation is never town indicative, is scum indicative and is very very slightly partner indicative

because he rolled scum but not with you?

I think you indicated having a scumread on him too earlier

Him saying he didn't roll scum with you.

Yeah.

{lab, carmen}
{tw?}
{null}
{keyser?}

still not voting

as a caveat he spent this entire conversation avoiding engaging with me about any reads or the current state of the game

this didn't real feel very effective, and seemed like a lot of assumptions IMO.

Appendix II: scum indicators
posts spent applying incorrect self-meta, ridiculing others' scumreads without engagement, explicitly squirming and avoiding producing content, including posts in response to being actively pressed to produce content and displaying a wish for real time interactions while actively squirming in real time interactions

i will not be commenting on these because the appendix name makes my commentary fairly obvious

Spoiler: 35 posts of 98 post iso

Also, where the hell is Creature? I just realized that he's in the game trying to see who we haven't heard from.
If Creature keeps up this activity, I think its very safe to assume that he is scum.

-Kor

You've been in that game where I've been humilatingly called low-threat.

also I don't zeropost intentionally for too long as scum

That's weird, I've just been handed a note:

"I WILL BE LURKING FOR THE REST OF DAY 1. F**K META!"

- C R E A T U R E

is it a joke, or what? I don't get it

Sorry my bad joke - I was amused by the

'if Creature lurks he's scum'

post

Town!me could easily say that.

Sometimes I have a good reason to lurk

oh fun, I didn't know I was interacting with an alt
I probably will never guess who you are because I always guess alts wrong, so enjoy knowing me while I don't know you!

It wasn't obvious it was an alt?

I'm gonna aim for the long game.

Find one scum per hell phase
One town per heaven phase

Also I'd probably rave a lot during RVS like I did when I entered this thread.

Goons aligned with the town seems funny. I wouldn't notice it myself though.

Also if I was scum I'd be more willing to give townreads. I'm rn struggling to get decent reads.

actually
VOTE: Creature

lynch this today for 11/10 guaranteed scumflip

Oh cool, you've become sheepsaysmeep 2.0

if Lab/Keyser are town they can prove it

So can I

tbh I'm more ready to send players to heaven than scum to hell.

we actually just hydra'd in a game, maybe i've learned more from him than i realised?

Learned to misread me like three games a row from him?

do it I dare you!

Are they doing it now?

tbh if I did it rn it simply wouldn't be natural

In short:

most likely: SvS
second most likely: town!labby / scum!Keyser
then: scum!labby / town!keyser
probably never: TvT

You'll be a great scientist.

His saying that he doesn't do this or that as scum when its stuff he's doing it looks extremely scummy.

Never heard of this scumtell.

Like, do you expect scum to go "hey i don't post as scum" "i am posting, thus is am town"?

Give me one flipped scum then

This game seems filled with players that are a pain to read.

Join us on Keyser?

What? Why?

I think you indicated having a scumread on him too earlier

Him saying he didn't roll scum with you.

Yeah.

Creature man why can't you just bus like a normal cheeky scumfuck? You're making this too obvious

idk though, I have about 37,5% to be right and I'm not sure this is worth the risk.

Like, do you expect scum to go "hey i don't post as scum" "i am posting, thus is am town"?

Exactly.

Oh, so you used to play mafia where scum automatically make themselves the most distinct possible from textbook (meh I forgot what was the term) townplay?

Oh yeah, that game where I was afraid to post anything, had to come up with something to satisfy town (including returning to page 1 and pretending to be "catching up") and faking complete ignorance about the setup (hence why I didn't talk about it even when the Math thing was obviously scum).

It's like normal for me to have a low content:spam ratio.

Specially in a game with a low number of players and even lower number of readable players and even lower number of interesting posts to comment on.

I feel like I need to act edgy to get something out of this.

yeah but normally your ISO feels like you give a fuck about solving the game

I usually value realtime interactions first.

I don't feel like calling someone town or scum when it's basically gun-to-my-head.

I don't feel like calling someone town or scum when it's basically gun-to-my-head.

If you feel like you're too heavily under pressure here step back. Neither me nor DrJ are getting anything from talking in circles with you. Go back and solve this sucker and give us something wild.

Nah, I want to see who will hop into this thread.

yeah but normally your ISO feels like you give a fuck about solving the game

I usually value realtime interactions first.

Why are these real time interactions so wolfy then?

because you're too impatient and want my reads immediatelly.

ok so you want real time interactions but won't use the real-time interactions to solve rather than spamming incorrect self-defence meta which has been countered ane you've ignored but also won't eject yourself from the conversation to take a back seat and some independent solving because you want real time interactions with.... someone else? who's on your mind?

Man, I realtime interact the way I want.

Oh, I'll miss my hyperposting times.

Can you See the difference between that game and this game?

It's an old game, but whatever.

the majority of these are also NAI, one example being "sometimes i have good reason to lurk. i really dont see how you get a SR off that

the rest is fluffing which i'm happy enough to call NAI but i think in reality is probably faintly scum scented given his overall iso

want me to compare the above to the game you linked? i'm actually in absolute awe you're not even pretending to see the differences

sorry the bold is hard to read, but i didnt want to use colors incase i got in trouble o.0

[Eragon]

Hm I disliked the start but have liked more lately. Funny.

mostly tone/incentive

like i felt early game he felt natural and consistent to himself, but later game started to feel a bit more ehhh

[Eragon]

im not doing any more big posts due to MY GODDAMN TESTS THAT I STILL NEED TO STUDY FOR

(good news: one got moved back to thursday)
(bad news: i still have 3 in the next 2 days)

[Eragon]

viewtopic.php?p=10547758#p10547758

Comparing my iso stance to yours how do you feel? just curious, I'm starting to wonder if I'm being wrong and Creature is actually willing to be bad town to fix his lopsided meta so genuinely wanna engage w someone about this

I like your reaction post.

tbf i feel the same way

I've never played with creature here, and only shortly on MU(which annoys me, so i don't remember much) so im not too sure about the "Creature" meta, thus i went more on tone and how i felt about their posts as a whole than their meta

i can be wrong, definitely, having replaced in and all that yada yada, but my read is town

[Eragon]

i just relaized all these people talking about creature's activity

he's literally slightly over 1/5 of the entire game thread

[Eragon]

this is what i feel needs to happen for heaven phase

Heaven 1: send the towniest person we can spare(basically mislynch bait)
Hell 1: hopefully scum, but if town its ok
Heaven 2: this is when it gets interesting with this amount of players, ESPECIALLY if we put town into both heaven and hell phase 1.
IF we send another mislynch bait we can spare to heaven, then thats 3 townies down and puts us into judgement day, with the experienced players left and only the inexperienced ones to solve in judgement day, where the thread is closed.
IF we send a super towny experienced player(im not naming any names but Irrelephant for example) they will do better in judgement day, but we will have a mislynch bait player in the thread maybe? but hopefully we feel good enough with it how it is.

IF we lynch town to hell Phase 1, i suggest putting experienced player to heavem
IF we lynch scum to hell Phase 1, i suggest putting towny/spareable player to heaven and continuing from there.

sorry if any of these offend you, im just using the words for lack of better

[Eragon]

he is active lurking but yeah not aggressively inactive

thanks for being the reality check i've been yearning for, i indeed am no longer confident in my ability to read creature. uuRRGGHHH

i feel like within the context of knowing his meta he's transparently playing as scum!creature but like. i'm not 100% sure that's scum indicative anymore.

exhausting.


pedit: eragon please claim your full role and alignment right now thanks

A quick note about WW theory and how I will play this game. Note that the arguments and facts presented here are indisputable, and that I will not engage in arguments about them, because those arguments are you wasting everyone else's time about meta that is well and comprehensively established. Go make reads so we can read you.

I've reflected on my role and realized that there is a GTO play for me in this game, and therefore I am compelled to pursue it. I am going to brute force my clearness immediately upon the opening of the thread.

I am hard-claiming, and I will never be rescinding. I am the cop. When it becomes prudent I will provide my check.

Benefits:

1. I will survive tonight: I do not believe the wolves are able to kill me tonight, because it is so objectively unlikely that I would ever do this as the cop. I believe that this decision reduces the importance of the cop cover to be provided by all of you to the point of it being negligible. The wolves have already been outplayed, as it were.

2. I'm lock clear: All of you already know I'm lock clear, because it is so objectively unlikely that I would do this as a wolf. You know this for at least two reasons. First, this is the easiest, lowest-stress, lowest-demand game to wolf in that I've ever played in (except for turbos). I have no need to complicate my life, as a wolf, by open-claiming on thread open, when all Ihave to do is provide like a C-level wolf game to probably win. This is the rare instance where you literally know that I have a billion other options as a wolf, AND that I would pursue probably ALL of them before pursuing this. Second, I engage in FPS exceedingly rarely, which necessarily means that I *know* that this will look WEIRD and SHOCKING to you. There is no merit to a wolf play that instantly generates WEIRD and SHOCKED responses that I would be obligated to finesse and manage for the remainder of the game. As a villager, which I am, the burden is totally on you to not $#@! up and lynch me. Makes my life super awesome.

3. There are only 11 players you need to try to read, rather than 12: I have already provided a "free" check of me in a game with a mere 13 players. Our win equity is dramatically improved by my being entirely off the table for the entire game.

Conclusion:

The burden of sound reasoning is now entirely upon you. I am the cop, and thus a villager, and thus lock clear. The game is immediately simpler than it would otherwise have been, because of my decision. Now, let us enjoy that benefit and win the game.

Also, to preempt a lengthy and pointless discussion.

It is NOT dumb to ponder this post and convince yourself of its wisdom. That is your obligation as a villager, and I encourage you to think it over for as long as it takes to quell your (initially valid but ultimately unnecessary) concerns.

It IS dumb to, AFTER doing that pondering, conclude that I'm "neutral" or "wolfy." That is legitimately stupid, and I won't entertain it. ONE of the reasons it is a stupid conclusion is that the upside of this play as a wolf is absolutely DWARFED by the upside of this play as a villager. There is no equivalency between the EV gain for wolf-me in this position and villager-me in this position. They're universes apart. That means I wouldn't DO the poorer option of the two (by extension, wolf-me also wouldn't BELIEVE that I could convince the entire game of the truth of these assertions for the entire game, which as an end-game wolf I would have to believe if this strategem were to be worth pursuing). A SECOND reason that conclusion is stupid is that the EV bonus of doing this as a wolf is COMPLETELY DWARFED by me baseline wolf EV anyway. Anything that complicates my wolfing life is RIDICULOUSLY stupid for me to do, given that my wolfing life is ALREADY one of the smoothest, highest expectation wolfing lives in WW history anyway. A THIRD reason that conclusion is stupid is that you would probably have to worry about being EXPLOITED by this gambit in order to get there. However, I have NEVER engaged in this, or any similar, gambit in my entire career, meaning that if there IS exploitation to be had with this play, it is in FUTURE GAMES, not this game. For these reasons, pressuring me is extremely wolfy and should not be engaged in by any villager, ever, in this game. There will be no less productive pursuit than that in this game.

Sucks for the wolves when meta is wielded this brutally, but my allegiance is plain and my strategy perfect. Get #rekt.

[Eragon]

#rekt son

[Eragon]

Spoiler: boom bish

[Eragon]

jfc that's acutally a great copypasta, that game was fun to read
i'm not sure whether to laugh or cry so i'm doing all 3

btw you like my sig

[Eragon]

Goddamnit my internet just went down.

Uhhhh


Well...

Eragon-meme is love, Meme is life

Creature- town

TW- skim town, needs deeper look

Dr.J- skim scum lean, needs deeper look

Keyser- haven’t seen nothing yet(no read)
Irrel(ain’t seen nothig but that sheeped read yet) no read

Lefty- no read

Lab rat- no read

Volxen- laugh read from creature’s posts about farting. No read

[Eragon]

I’m also liking the RTI with you :3

(Real time interaction)

[Eragon]

I don’t have many reads, but TBF how can you expect t when I replaced in bottom of last page and about 2 hours ago, when the majority of that time was spent reading creaure’s ISO and making memes and interacting with you and doing homework

[Eragon]

I like hanging out with you too!
Okay get back to me when you're in sync with the balance of the slots. I don't have a strong grip if your stance yet. I think low key I need someone who's experienced creature to tell me if I'm being dumb or not.

I actually meant that as a read-thing.

Like “like” as in towny.

Although I like it too :3

I’m not sure when I’ll have time really confirmed, cuz I’m in a 50p mash on MU from 5:00AM to 5:00PM and I will probably study for tests on the bus for the next 2 days, so ???
I’ll get back to you, hopefully i’ll Find a window of time tommorow to do good things, if not definitely the next day

[Eragon]

Mashes suck

[Eragon]

So what do you think about Dr.J?

I feel some of their pushes have been opportunistic and surface leve scummy, although I haven’t gone deep.

[Eragon]

I think some of their pushes have been surface level and opportunistic but not in a way that is pro mislynch if that makes sense. The fluidity of their reads and the timing on how they've shifted between pushes also feels towny. If they're scum they do not give a fuck about appearances which is chilled

I really struggle with Korina's playstyle regularly bc I always find him reach and opportunistic feeling but as town he is jUSt trYING and I kinda have to bend myself into a pretzel to read it correctly without surrendering to my natural bias. but I'm seeing it here more than I usually see it. Lcp has a pretty similar energy wrt jUSt trYING and I've found him like pretty much fine but I'm townreading Korina more atm

lmk if this makes sense, I think we're seeing pretty similar behaviours in the hydra's iso just coming at it from different angles

*imagining the worst as a pretzel shaped duck*

COUGH

Now where were we...

Ok.

Yea, I can see that, i’ll Look into it when I have time.

One thing, what do you mean “timing between the push”?

It makes sense overall, if surface level slight cherrypicking(using this instead of opportunistic based of combination) is normal for korina/lcPl/Dr.J then I think they might be a bit towny?

As I said I’ll look into t more later, but if that’s their play style than They’re probably town

[Eragon]

Ok.

1. It’s late
2. My cats angry
3. I’m tired
5. Phonepostin sucks
4. Good night

[Eragon]

i got hella little time for hella lotta work, but i'll try to at least catch up on what's been happening in thread

[Eragon]

Hi Eragon
Strong entrance.
I’m happy you’ve joined us x

happy :3

One thing, what do you mean “timing between the push”?

The flitting between dog with a bone and just poking and prodding which makes them look like a woofer

this somehow made me even more confused

Well if TW is town, then maybe scum after sheeping his wrong reads.

I didn’t like how D1 right through to D4 was already planned out without at least a third of the playerlist not contributing. That stinks. Maybe just exuberant over-confidence from Ducky then.

Creature-Keyser-LabRat: Gamesolve? No judge. That is not.

so going off of how you explained it in a later post
this is saying
"he might be town if he's not the agena driven scumlord"
"but i dont like his D1-D4 pre-setup", which IMO feels pretty nitpicky, especially due to the likelihood of change,
"Creature-keyser-lab" gamesolve? nope." now, here im not sure if you are talking about YOU thinking those three are town and asking if thats gamesolve, of if you are talking about THE WORST thinking you 3 are scum, and saying thats not gamesolve.

IF its the first, then is that not a good start D1? having 1/3 of the playerlist sorted out and have a 50% chance of RNG'ing a correct lynch? If i could find 2 people i feel strongly enough to be lock-town i'd be happy.
IF its the latter, then do you have anything else to say about it than "nope you are wrong"?

I'm townreading too much of the playerlist... Hm.
Keyser what did that first sentence mean?

"Well if TW is town, then maybe scum after sheeping his wrong reads."

TW doesn't have to be the agenda-driving scumlord. Scum will more likely be in his allies, hiding in his sails, completing his conquest for him.
Unfortunately that means I'm looking at you right now among others.
I now await Lefty's next move (or inevitable replace out) to complete the picture.

so are you thinking tw is town being sheeped by scum or tw scum and sheep scum or tw scum and sheep town?
im getting mixed signals from your posts here.

in fact sheeping is town indicative for me, and you know this ???
eragon, come vote keyser with me

I'm not sure if you are talking to me or keyser, but i do know i don't know sheeping is town indicative for you.
the only game i've played with you i think is WW, where i felt you were pretty nuanced and the epitome of non-sheepy(tbf i didnt pay much attention due to insta lock-towning you) but i still feel you weren't really sheeping?

also, have you explained why keyser is scum, or is it new?
and why ask me specifically?
especially going to show in the next post you make(or one of them) you voted me, so FYPOV you asked scum to vote with you?

Spoiler: fluff for Irrelphant

Yeah, you're not actually voting/sheeping TW's target right now. You're just trying to kill a townie :/
Out of 9 players with 3 scum in it, I am your #1 scum lord trying to send innocent animals to hell?

No I don't buy you think that. Unfortunately you're caught in the web. I am thus forced to look at you to try find out if you're an innocent bystander or pulling the strings.

1 At worst I am a townie who has de-railed/slowed down two wagons on two legitimate obvious scum, and will pay the consequences.
2 At best I am a townie trying to reshake the stubborn mindscape of the majority and trying to stop the planned misslynches.

(Currently I believe in 2. If it's 1, it's another learning lesson for me for being to paranoid)

My only allie this game is Creature , who I helped to put to L-1 who actually thinks I'm "genuine".


I will promise to stop talking about me now, as this does nothing to help me achieve my win-con, only to protect my image with a disclaimer

Tell me why Volxen is in the 75%-99% town criteria right now?
I admittedly witnessed a technical "improvement", but I am hesitant to invest

serious

town coin in that slot right now.
Please convince me there.

i feel the first part is a lot of shade and AtE, but ofc those are things that can come from town as well...

Okay

To start, volxen and I just finished a newbie game together tvt.
One of the biggest differences I saw in his play in the newbie vs in Watchmen Wanted was in how he formed reads. In WW his reads were something like "This player is pushing someone I think is town, therefore scum" and "lurking is scummy". That's about as deep as he ever got (read: so shallow they're not even in the water, even as he wrote walls to say it all)
In the newbie, his reads were "This player's suggestions help a pro-scum agenda, therefore scum" and "This player's play would be extremely risky and likely to fail if scum, therefore town". The first of the two reads I'm describing here (scumread on varsoon) was wrong, but he
a) clearly believed it
2) was considering other players' motivations in both cases, which showed much deeper thinking about "why" someone's play is scummy, rather than leaning on caricatures of scummy play to make other players more mislynchable.

From his 307 - "I would think town!Rat would understand that this game isn't just about everyone forming their own reads in isolation and then presenting their readslist to the rest of the group, but it's largely a game that involves interacting with everyone else to understand their motivations, which includes asking players questions such as, "what did you think about X from player Y?" The fact that Rat's initial reaction to both questions about Keyser was to immediately label them as attempts to be LAMIST rather than as genuine questions that were asked to gather information to help gamesolve, seems much more likely to come from scum than town."
This paragraph alone is halfway to townclearing for volxen imo. It reminds me of his push on Varsoon - probably wrong (if I'm right about labrat), but he believes it and is taking into account more than surface-level scum traits. He's really trying to find another player's motivations.

I won't say volxen HAS to be town here, because I will take into account his tryhard-ness and comments he's made about wanting to improve his scumgame, but I think his similarities to his play in the newbie and the difference between this and WW is notable and obvious - not to mention he is game solving mostly un-prompted so far, whereas a lot of the development of his reads in WW came after he was wagoned

the fact that tw also meta-townreads volxen helps confirm, as I think regardless of tw's alignment he'd probably agree that this is very different from the weak scumgame we've seen from volxen, and is very similar to town!volxen as seen elsewhere

How do you read him?

so you have a good enough meta read on volxen from his 14 posts(i think thats the #) that you are, as keyser puts it, "75-99% sure volxen is town"

i don't disagree with what you have posted, i disagree with the strength of the read you have.

VOTE: eragon

why the vote?
i haven't seen any progression from you, nor explanation, to warrant a naked vote.
especially after asking me to follow you on keyser, shows that you dont

truly

have a scumread on me, else why would you ask me to follow you?

I won't say volxen HAS to be town here, because I will take into account his tryhard-ness and comments he's made about wanting to improve his scumgame, but I think his similarities to his play in the newbie and the difference between this and WW is notable and obvious - not to mention he is game solving mostly un-prompted so far, whereas a lot of the development of his reads in WW came after he was wagoned

the fact that tw also meta-townreads volxen helps confirm, as I think regardless of tw's alignment he'd probably agree that this is very different from the weak scumgame we've seen from volxen, and is very similar to town!volxen as seen elsewhere

Strongly agree with this post and strongly agree with the quoted as well. I was half tempted to push him as scum to see how he reacted (we TvT'd in my first IC game genuinely and by the end of it volxy in particular was v v obvtown) but given the depth of nuance in his reads I don't think I need to

I actually think they're indicative of the trajectory of his improving towngame more so than where I'd expect to see his scumgame improve (i.e. I strongly agree that he believes what he's saying) and would be pretty surprised if he has improved this markedly and in such a surprisingly specific way as scum

He might be my strongest townread following your read here. :0

same as with reundo, i see the points, i agree with the read, i think its slightly to earler to have that be the strongest read IMHO.
if he continues with the nuance, sure, but i find it easy to start off a game well, but its when it gets later the true colors leak out.

I'm at a bit of an impasse. I wanna pressure Eragon bc it's hard to split his reads from lip service to solving but like also...

that's probably not going to do anything...

bolded part :thumbs_up:
I gave the reads that you asked me to give.
i didn't have time to do all of them, so i just put "No read"
its basically equal to me leaving out everyone i put "no read" on and only giving the ones i did, except i was making it clearer to you.

IF you're talking about my specific creature read, then explain why you think that might not be truly solving the game.

akshully Era's Creature read is pretty shocking but it doesn't feel as wolfy as I wish it did

Rel rel rel rel what's his theatre game like?

wat.

[Eragon]

do you mean "what does eragon faking a read look like?"?

pedit: ok
keyser are you scum

what do you hope to gain by asking this question?

I don't remember eragon faking a towncase
I remember him faking a scumcase on ausuka

i can fake any case as scum if i want to

If i might do some horrid self-meta to clear things up,

Spoiler:

i find that as scum i have set parameters in what i want people to look like with my read on them, so i'll focus on making them look like town or making them look like scum as it would be. As town its more "solvey-ish" and trying to figure it out through the case,

First 10 posts-
-I dont see anything AI, mostly memes/not really content posts

Cool I almost posted in a game that ended months ago

Next 10 posts-i see a few things here
-196 the stuff about replacing out seems like natural interaction? I don’t really know I just kinda like the tone from it
-200 this post gives me strong town pings, specifically saying “dont send me to heaven”

21-30
-202 *pats*
-204 you poor soul.
-218 I dont know where this read comes from? He hasn’t said anything about tw, and all of a sudden “oh hey your probably right on TW”
-219 makes my heart feel warm inside 0.0 but on a serious note It does seem weird, but why would scum say a single intro RvS post reads town? pocket?

31-40
-225 prove it. Insofar you can, this post is fine, but if you aren’t trying, this is probably LAMIST

41-50
-240 personally feel towny tone here, but I also think this is a stretch
-319 why are you bringing this up again?? And the “i wouldn’t notice it myself though” sounds like “oh hey I didn’t get a scum rc so I couldn’t see that”
-323 personally I abhor self-meta, but I know people do it on this site (?) so im in-between here. Reasoning is b/c if someone knows their meta enough to comment about it, can’t they manipulate it? like, creature says “i’d give town reads as scum”
> gives like, 1 townread.
“oh hey I cant be scum”
-329 do you have a response to their vote?

51-60
-330 then does it
-331 can you elaborate a bit more on “he did enough” and why you are hesistant?
-332 towny vibes
-338 I have no idea the context, but I feel towny ping he doesn’t want to do unnatural things.

61-70
-466 isn’t that what you did? (except for saying it outloud)

71-80
-471 town ping, scum would force reads out, town wants to make accurate reads
-479 was that an actual scum read?




81-90
502 do you feel you are doing that this game? And is it normal as all alignments?
504as above town ping, scum would try to force a read
511above

91-100
525 its all well and good to try to make reads the way you want, but its normally good to have some reads by that point of the game… I still like how you aren’t giving in to people forcing you to make reads, as I feel scum would, but I think its about time…
556 mostly calm reaction to the vote, but it also strikes me a bit odd
“ I dont care if you vote me just don’t Lynch me” feels like an indirect way of saying “why the fuck did you vote me”

101-110
558 this made me laugh
568 most people like it when you give reasons for town reads ;_;
please?
572 I dont know whats going on in this post

111-120
580 :3
582 *pat*
611 do it. I dare you.
612 I also want an explanation from lab

121-130
622 why des it matter if he’s an alt?
656 what do you mean? You think volxen is scum, or you think this puts us into judgement day? And if you think volxen is scum explain. And if you think everyone is town, explain.
657 I see that too, but why go pure shade instead of asking WHY rel is sleeping TW?
662 can you explain why you SR volxen?


131-141
666 speak of the devil, please don’t do this. Odd coincidence for the post numbers lmao.
671 so basically your read is he had a wolf pop-in. Got it. But what about the rest of his posts? scummy? Towny but not enough to counter-act, null?
681 IM HERE BISH AND YOU CANT STOP THIS
682 well, its also statisticly likely that at least 1 is scum, based on there being 4/9 players and 3/9 are scum…
684 when did you change the read?

142-155
-685 try to draw a conclusion yourself, as well as asking
-686 MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA
-687 again, you literally need to have worse reads than RNG(i’ve seen it happen) to not have one of these be scum
-688 do you truly believe this?
-691 I think you should
-693 so you don’t acknowledge the fact that you could be scum and people think you might be scum??????? Everyone that scum reads you, no matter what, your skeptical of?
-699 ok.

conclusion:

So, i saw a lot of posts that gave me towny pings and i felt the tone was towny, but i also read a few that just made me go "WTF???" so i don't think i can consider this strong town, but i definitely have a townread here

Alright, so you've done a fairly detailed ISO dive of Creature. And it also seems you not only believe that Creature is town, but he is your strongest townread. It seems like you came to that conclusion fairly easily, but if Creature is somehow obvious town, then several players (including myself) are missing it, so it's a bit concerning to me that he became your strongest townread so quickly and so easily. Especially because a lot of the things you listed as being townie for him could easily be faked by scum. For example:

i'll do this in blue do to large post and hard reading.
So, for you're first point, saying that creature is my strongest townread: No duh? he's the only person i've full on read this game. i don't think he's obvious town, i read his tone and some of his posts as towny, but not all, and i can definitely see some scum in there. I feel he's town, thats all. again "its concering that he became your strongest townread so quickly and easily" its not hard to be the strongest townread when theres only 1 thought through townread, now is it? ITs like saying I got first place in a one person tournament.

-196 the stuff about replacing out seems like natural interaction? I don’t really know I just kinda like the tone from it

Why is him asking Lefty whether he replaced out more likely to come from town!Creature than scum!Creature? I don't really see that as being AI at all.

Its not the comment itself, i felt the tone was slightly natural IMO, as clearly stated in my post.
"i dont know, i just kinda like the tone"
meaning its not the content thats ai, its my read on how his post read

-200 this post gives me strong town pings, specifically saying “dont send me to heaven”

Scum could do that just as well to try to make themselves look more towny, especially with his whole follow-up of "I don't plan to be sent to heaven early anyway. I'm more of an endgame guy." in post 382.

eh, agreed.

-319 why are you bringing this up again?? And the “i wouldn’t notice it myself though” sounds like “oh hey I didn’t get a scum rc so I couldn’t see that”

When Labrat brought up the typo about the mafia RC saying "aligned with town" in post 6, people were quick to point out that that may be more likely to come from scum than town (i.e., scum would be more likely to notice the typo), which may be a fair assessment. But why is Creature's response of "I wouldn't notice it myself though" townie? Couldn't that just be scum!Creature making a joke about it in jest?

This is a reason that i think Creature could be scum? did you think i was calling him town here? i felt it was kinda LAMIST actually.

-332 towny vibes

Why? In that post he says, "tbh I'm more ready to send players to heaven than scum to hell." Considering it's arguably a lot worse to send scum to heaven than it is to send a townie to hell, why does he get town points for that?

*shrug* i can see both sides of the coins, i actually misread this the opposite way, and i liked he was being consitent with "hard to get townreads right now" but re-reading it this way that is invalid.

-471 town ping, scum would force reads out, town wants to make accurate reads

Like volxen who just came here to fart and left

As in, you think DrJ and Volxen are both scum?

I expressed multiple times I scumread volxen.

Also DrJ didn't seem to do anything other than bugging me for inactivity when like the entire playerlist was inactive.

That might have been a fair point to make for Creature earlier in the game, but his read of me is either forced/faked (if he is scum) or incredibly lazy (if he is town). I asked TW legitimate questions about the Heroes Wanted game (since TW himself brought it up as his basis for meta reading Creature), and Creature responds by throwing shade at me saying I was "fart posting" by asking about the game. It came across like he was more interested in throwing shade at me rather than trying to accurately sort my slot.

i don't find "he came in to fart and then left" as a very shade-y post, but i give you if thats his only reason for Sr'ing you thats a bit odd.

Now if Creature is in-fact town, I agree with his assessment in post 682 that he probably didn't get up to L-1 without scum involvement, especially since a third of the playerlist is scum. And I am one of the people on his wagon, so it makes sense for town!Creature to be critical of my slot. But his wagon consisted of myself, Dr. J., The Worst, and Keyser. He has been throwing shade at me and Dr. J, but why is he not being critical of the rest of his wagon? He seems to be giving Keyser in particular an easy townread, as he seems convinced that Keyser is the only person on his wagon that is town. But he never explained why Keyser's joining of his wagon is more "genuine" than TW, Dr. J, or myself joining his wagon:

he hasn't explained a lot of things this game tbf, but i don't think he's being very critical of TW because i agree, i find TW pretty towny rn, and i also remember from quick skim Dr. J being pushy(which i figured out is NAI) and you not having a lot of posts, so i understand why he focuses on those 2.

Keyser feels like the most genuine atleast. The rest all have some scum equity.

Now I think there's very likely scum among {DrJ, the worst, volxen}

I could see any of them deciding to push me as scum.

Any why doesn't he consider the possibility that Keyser could be pushing him as scum as well? Why is Keyser the only person on his wagon that gets a free pass?

you are sort of contradicting yourself here, earlier you said "hes only being critical of Me and Doc J" but here it shows he thinks TW might be scum too. (i posted the above about not pushing TW based off of what you said and without reading on so im just keeping that their but you can ignore it if you want) and maybe because he thinks keyser is town??? i admit he hasn't explained it yet, and he should, but b/c he does townread keyser, why would he consider keyser is scum pushing him>?

I'm just not seeing anything in Creature's ISO or interactions that is strongly indicative of him being town. It really feels like you are giving Creature an incredibly easy townread.

maybe there isnt, maybe i am. i feel that he is town, its fine that people disagree. Its by no means a strong read, and i could see him flipping scum, i just don't think so if i was forced to give a read on the spot, i'd say town over scum.

So 724 seems to be how eragon formats any deep read he makes as either alignment (I remember learning this upon metadive to figure out his scumgame)
Umm his fake scumread of Ausuka in Watchmen Wanted consisted mostly of "Can't explain this??" and "one interpretation of this post would be ____, and that's the one I pick"
doesn't focus much on trajectory so much as isolated moments

...that's all I got, it's kinda hard to pick out what makes a fake read fake, plus at the time I believed his reads mostly

Ye pretty much.

yea I think his creature case is more consistent with how town eragon forms reads but the actual content is like... babby no....

@volxy good post gimme a sec.

why do you think the content is bad? simply cuz you disagree?

actually Era needs to respond to your post, me throwing my weight around would be a waste of time. plus I only weigh as much as a witch

^_^ ofc i'll respond.
also, im fine with you pushing the read too, it helps me iron the kinks out of my case(like the things volxen pointed out different interpretations for), and every little bit counts you fluffy little featherweight

In your opinion, does scum-Creature saying I’m the only “genuine” mofo, good or bad in terms of associations with him?

why do you even need to ask this??

about as neutral as it should be I think

So he’s just WIFOM shooting... shouting names for null fun...?

Including his scum read of Volxen + Dr J (two of the most loved slots this game)?

My brain aches because I think having nonsense reads which go against the grain is >rand town but citing meta and calling people bad when you're asked to explain them is >rand wolf (refer: my scumgame)

if he is indeed scum yeah he just yells random names. there isn't a discerbable rhyme or reason to whether or not he would treat a scumbuddy or a townie the way he's treating you I don't think

I can re dive Heroes Wanted or smth to see if it might spew you but his meta is in a state of aggressive flux so like, I don't want to

“

Yells random names

”
Good, just protecting myself incase he does flip mafia

I just thought to myself, in that scenario, he may be trying to shade two of the most established universal town reads by instilling paranoia in our minds... then link me to himself via an unexplained town read!

Good thing he isn’t scum though right!

this post strikes me as really weird, like "protecting myself incase he does flip mafia" why would town post this, or why would town plan on needing to protect themselves if their townread flipped scum??
and "good thing he isnt scum though right!" feels forced and OTT, and doesn't really fit with the rest of the post.

In your opinion, does scum-Creature saying I’m the only “genuine” mofo, good or bad in terms of associations with him?

If I may answer that as well, in my opinion its scum buddying town, given I see no reason from his perspective to see why you should be genuine. I have difficulty reading you tbh but I'd... tenatively mark you as slight town, and this goes to confirm that.

I've felt tw to be town, however, I do have a thought that he could also be scum with creature given it would be natural for him to bus his scum partner. I'm fairly confident he isn't esp as I don't think scum would be a second vote on a wagon on their partner, but I'll want to revisit that to see what other interactions there are there.

"given i see no reason from his perspective"
well i see the problem already
you can't see from his perspective
ya'll are different people with different thoughts and you can't mindread through a computer screen

why are you townreading keyser based off the thought creature is scum pocketing keyser before any flips?

lol @tw bussing that hard D1 in this setup

I don't think I can scumcase a buddy as well as I cased creature, also fwiw I'm like insanely burned out on bussing so w/e take that how you will

Rel can probably back up from that one newbie game I would rather fight uphill than bus atm, also suss open 730 or whichever one was grey flag by the awesone rurururu

i agree

@Keyser, do you think Creature is perhaps pocketing/buddying you? Does his townread of you feel "genuine"?

well if he felt like he was pocketed wouldn't that make his reads different???

He’s probably pocketed me in the sense I empathasized with his frustration yesterday (his appeal to emotion, regardless of alignment) made me want to take a step back. When you’re in the same boat as someone you can’t just help but feel like brothers. If the shoe was on the other foot and I was L-1 i’m sure he would have

unvoted too!

hammered me probably

I was hoping he would expand on his t/read of me but I don’t think that’s his style.

But the thing why try pocket only me? I’m only one vote, who hasn’t got any serious credit or control right now, so it’s a wasted buddying attempt if anything. There are lots of more persuasive players out there willing to flip him today. Eragon wasn’t even directly buddied/pocketed.. he just jumped in there with a straight town read.

yep

[Eragon]

First thoughts when catching up:

Irrelephant seems to be really happy to town-read Voxel, which is kind of weirding me out.

My one thought without fully catching up is this seems like a towny volxen, unless he’s trying very very hard to improve his scumgame (no nuance there)

Improvement noticed too... would like to witness wider focus though.

is this you saying he's "improved scum" or that he's town?
It's theoretically possible this is his improved scumgame (and he's tryhard enough to get there) but it's a BIG jump from easy-to-lynch-d1 scum!volxen from WW

without nuance
haha to explain further he seems to really struggle as scum to come up with thought-out reasoning for his reads. His reads aren't perfect but the amount of thought that goes into them shows a lot about his alignment (I think he's almost certainly town here)

He’d have to be bullshiting hard for it to be a lie.

how does volx play as scum?

Still don't really understand volxen's scumread of labrat? Like it seemed like it came from "there has to be 1 scum in {tw, labrat}" and imo tw is scummier here

I find it off though that he’d use a non-personal way of talking to them here though.
I mean, if volx is really sooo townie to him, I think it would be more natural to treat him as town and just simply ask him about his reads instead of doing that from a distance. That’s used more often when you’re judging someone, which feels kinda weird here considering irre’s enthusiasm while TRing volx.

It doesn’t really give me a strong read on him, but it’s just sth I wanted to mention.

uhh im seeing a contradiction

you say "the happiness of the townread weirds me out" but also
you say "he'd have to be bullshitting hard to make this a lie" which means its a real read which is good right?

so its it wierd and overhappy or truthful and good?

sup

Eragonna kick some scum butt?

yes my bready friend.

I've played this set-up before , albeit from the opposite side, and it was extremely mind-game fun

Oof, that’s dumb, like, extremely dumb, but it’s giving me town vibes

I don’t think I’ve ever seen eragon meme so hard btw

few things i gotta settle with you
1. what's dumb?
5. i've never playe with you before(unless alt)
17. I meme hard alot, especially early.

The read on creat is kind of easy, but not really weird considering that eragon hasn’t read anything from the thread yet

612 I also want an explanation from lab

From how I understood it, people were SRing Creat here because he tends to freeze as scum (lurks while badly pretending to be doing anything?), also if I understood it right, he’s not good at interacting with the townies as scum and has way worse reads than when playing town.
I haven’t seen any game where he’d be scum yet, but that’s what I understood about his scum meta so far. From what I know, he isn’t anywhere close to helpful as town either, but most of the time is sort of readable? (or at least that’s what other people say)

In the early game I kind of refrained from reading him because of my bad experiences with his town meta, but I didn’t like his interactions with TW in the mid-game. (515 and most of the interactions earlier (you can read the page and the previous one and it should be ok))

uhh I meant more along the lines of "why is not lynching -Lynch target- game throwing"

--------------------------
In short, TW was SRing Creat since quite a while and started interacting with him to get sth out of him and Creat responded mostly by empty-posting and refusing to do stuff while explaining it as town motivated/normal for him.
It kind of felt like he was just getting salty that people were SRing him, when he’s been doing similar stuff in his bad town games and refused to contribute not because he wasn’t able to, but “just for the sake of proving his point“. (which comes more often form scum than town imo)

And 515 and 516 kind of did it for me. Like, I think it’s rather common knowledge that hard jesting for reaction tests is a really bad way to get reads. Noobs may do it sometimes, but it’s weird seeing it coming from someone who played for a few years
It felt like absolute bullshit to me

I mean, I do have bad experiences with reading creat and the stuff about his town meta sometimes being shitty were true, but even if that’s true, if he’s gonna be unreadable and if he’s claiming to be doing it on purpose, I do not have any reason to waste my time by keeping him alive in the game. Just no

k

His latest posts were better though

Creature (4) - Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, the worst, Keyser Söze, volxen

First, this is never all town, specially if I'm town.

All of them reaching to the same wrong conclusion simply never happens in mafia history.

That was kinda townie.

I don't think its that great of a conclusion, given the statistical approximation of at least one of them being scum simply by RNG

The fact that he takes his “scum-flip” into probability when talking about interaction reads is not sth I think often comes from stressed scum.

I can see this, although some semantics I noticed(using semantics to show its not strong and more just tinfoil) he used "if" as if he might not flip town even from his PoV?

Also I'm pretty sure scum are aware of the "oh scum will always townread town!creature", so likely they'd try to break it like this game.

waht.

like, it's pretty usual for scum to townread me because I will obvtown and they will look bad if I don't.

So they could push me as scum and when they turn to be wrong they can use the argument above.

And maaaybe that

I also kinda liked his “farting” read on volx, but meh

he kind of jumped up for me from an: "absolutely lynch" position to sth like: "yeah, ok.... go on..."

what did you like about the "Farting read"

im not doing any more big posts due to MY GODDAMN TESTS THAT I STILL NEED TO STUDY FOR

(good news: one got moved back to thursday)
(bad news: i still have 3 in the next 2 days)

Oof, and I thought I had it hard

this is what i feel needs to happen for heaven phase

Heaven 1: send the towniest person we can spare(basically mislynch bait)

Kind of agree, but don’t go overboard with it
everyone’s got different reads anyway, so honestly, any kind of townie-looking lynch except the super confident/helpful ones will be plenty good

FYI the study guide for my English test tomorrow is 23 pages long on google docs.

TWENTY.
THREE.
GOD.
DAMN.
PAGES.
FOR.
ONE.
EXAM.

They exist

You can be town.

I'm starting to wonder if I'm being wrong and Creature is actually willing to be bad town to fix his lopsided meta

Huh? I'm not being bad town.

you're certainly not being good town ergo this is a scumclaim

...

scum claim is quite a bit too strong here

P.Edit
About the heaven lynch, I think I’d be fine with volx after all
That’s not personally my strong SR, but if he really is scum (I'm kind of tempted to believe in the TRs on him, but meh), that’s a very valuable flip to get (even if it’s a heaven lynch imo)
I really doubt that scum would just remain idle if they got such a wonderful opportunity to get rid of one of them to heaven and only 2 people (as far as I remember) seemed to strongly push them being town

VOTE: eragon

Elaborate please (or quote the read cuz your posts are long and I might have missed it xd )

he didn't make a read lol xd

----------------------

I disagree with most of it, but I think volx’s read on eragon was good

I didn't even know that was a read 0.0
I thought that was a response to my case

----------------------

And sorry, that’s just a catchup, I got back like 2 hours ago, so I haven’t been able to do anything yet
Going to sleep rn, but I will 100% have time to work on my reads tomorrow
Sry for that

[Eragon]

Eat My Wall Post 2.0

and now i need to go work on said 23 page study guide

[Eragon]

what would be absolutely amazing is if our other WW buddy replaced lefty 0.0

[Eragon]

now its fucking 27 pages kmn

[Eragon]

[snip]

P.Edit
About the heaven lynch, I think I’d be fine with volx after all
That’s not personally my strong TR, but if he really is scum (I'm kind of tempted to believe in the TRs on him, but meh), that’s a very valuable flip to get (even if it’s a heaven lynch imo)
I really doubt that scum would just remain idle if they got such a wonderful opportunity to get rid of one of them to heaven and only 2 people (as far as I remember) seemed to strongly push them being town

VOTE: eragon

Elaborate please (or quote the read cuz your posts are long and I might have missed it xd )

----------------------

I disagree with most of it, but I think volx’s read on eragon was good

----------------------

And sorry, that’s just a catchup, I got back like 2 hours ago, so I haven’t been able to do anything yet
Going to sleep rn, but I will 100% have time to work on my reads tomorrow
Sry for that

1 - this comment about sending volxen to heaven even if scum is pinging me. Do you personally think he'll flip scum? Do you think using heaven lynches to sort is a good strategy in this setup?
2 - I haven not yet laid out a case on eragon, because I wanted to see his reaction first. But the short version is that it came from his read on creature - it feels like he's too sure creature is town, which had me paranoid that eragon was TMI-ing bad!town!creature. I also don't think eragon is outside his scum meta so far, and though I understand his being busy, I feel like scum give excuses for being busy more often than town (who will show up when they show up, whatever)

how am i in any way acting as if im sure creature is town????? during my case i was going back and forth, some scummy things but more towny things IMO, and i came to the conclusion creature is town, but i also acknowledged multiple times im wrong and have responded fairly to everyone(Volxen) who has responded to my case, as well as agreeing that there were a couple posts that seeing a different opinion of changed my opinion. I really can't see why everyone thinks i have such a strong townread on creature, because i really don't think it came offr that way

i agree im not outside of scum meta, but

Spoiler: self-meta

if i were scum i wouldn't be as active as i really am now and would more ride the slank of my business instead of going to this in any free time, which leads to my next point...

you say im using "business" as an excuse to not do anything and its something more liekly for scum to do? Have you seen me NOT putting in effort? do you think im using the "excuse" as you put it for me to not post content, am i taking advantage of my life to effect this game? NO! I told ya'll that im busy, yes, but has that stopped me from putting forward my best effort atm? Its more of a reason to explain why i won't be able to be on like 24/7 and instant-respond, resorting to catchups such as this, as well as me just having a place to rant about my horrors of life.

Kinda dependent on TReading creature which idk if I do but I wanted to see what might happen

my read... is dependant on if YOU... townread creature?????

836
-I was telling Keyser that he does indeed know that sheeping players I think are town is town indicative for me
-I asked you to vote Keyser to test a partner theory, but I got bored and moved on before it went anywhere
-See above for my vote on you
-Don't love you shading volxen by saying I'm townreading him too strongly without giving any reason why

i don't feel im shading volxen at all, i said i AGREE with your points that he is town. I just disagree that he should be such strongly considered town simply based on a "nuanced" meta. if anything it looks worse for you than volxen. And i did give reasons, exactly what i stated here. "IT shouldn't be such a strong read yet based off of 14 posts and shit becuase i find the beginning of the game is where people put forward the best effort so its harder to tell metas early game unless there is a crazy distinctive one.

837
-I asked Keyser if he is scum as a joke
-Keyser's comment about creature that you're calling OTT is obviously meant to be funny?

is it a joke? i didnt even realize that i mean, i understand it was told in a humourous way, but i thought it was a serious thought process.

-trying to decide if *lack of awareness of humorous intent* is AI for eragon (I remember it happening a couple times in our last game, too) - maybe sometime I'll have the time to meta research this

I miss sarcasm/irony a lot but i also really like jokes

[Eragon]

DrJ what is your read on eragon?
eragon what is your read on keyser?
keyser what is your read on DrJ?

creature do you have any solid reads yet

i'll have to look back and i'll give you a better explanation then, but from what i've seen im leaning a little bit wolf.

off the top of my head, i think he feels a bit pocket-y which i didn't feel in WW, and there are a few pings i've had that i'll elaborate later.
i haven't focused on any of his posts before i replaced in though so i'll make a set read then.

[Eragon]

keyser what is your read on DrJ?

Think it was: 'town lean, but it makes me feel dirty'


I really wanted to look at Lefty today :/ TW said he was town but I did not feel it for the short time he was with us.

May look at Dr J and Eragon instead and figure out a PoE. Cos right now it kinda feels like I'm onboard the Orient Express.

i agree with that about doc j :3

1 - this comment about sending volxen to heaven even if scum is pinging me. Do you personally think he'll flip scum?

tbh, if Volxen did flip scum in heaven I would look at you (you are a type of scum-player to white-knight his scum teammates to high heaven and not bus)

chaining lynches together??
what he accused me of in WW

Want to talk about my concerns.

If you feel me..I mean FILL me with enough confidence and peace of mind over these 2 items, I’d be happy to send Dr J to heaven



What’s the possibility of:

1 DrJ imitating their LAMIST-y output to pad out their active questioning? (Scum motivation? To be town read via meta)

2 is it coincidence or scum pt agenda, that their two main passionate pushes (LabRat and Creature) have reflected the in-game focus too? Notice the two campaigns /scum reads never overlapped. The timing... the support... the tunnel vision...

i personally feel LAMIST-y things are scummy just in general, as i feel town have no need to post it.
that said sometimes it happens that people do post things they feel are fine but other people see as LAMIST

so i don't think anything LAMIST deserves a townread, but if its something they do and/or the rest of their posts are fine its not a scum-tell either

okay yes, let's talk, will focus on this for a few minutes

LAMIST as a self-meta-replicating strategy is possible but maybe unlikely, given I seemed to surprise Korina by describing their play that way? I'll concede that it's probably closer to NAI/townlean than *strongly* town indicative, given I'm not that familiar with scum!Korina or the other head

I'd have to do a deeper dive to remember if DrJ's pushes led or followed the crowd on labrat - do you know offhand from re-reading? Definitely some element of sheeping tw on Creature, I think

as above, i disagree in . LAMIST ever being towny

[Eragon]

Also, where the hell is Creature? I just realized that he's in the game trying to see who we haven't heard from.
If Creature keeps up this activity, I think its very safe to assume that he is scum.

-Kor

actually seems like DrJ was "onto" creature in the first five pages

What if the team is {Lab, Creature, TW}?

-Kor (to both)

actually yeah I'm not seeing what you're seeing re:tunnel vision

What about DrJ's play feels tunnel vision-y?

ftr in Children of Hurin(i think creature was town there the OP wasn't updated) he didnt post until like 160-200 so thats NAI
if he was scum there might need to re-look.

[Eragon]

Strong town lean.
Destined for heaven.

this about Doc. J correct?
even though you thought they were a bit LAMIST-y

side note:

Spoiler:

i forget if keyser was one of the people saying i had too easy of a townread on creature, but if so then he's p.much doing the same thing with a much stronger read on Doc. J. IF he wasn't one of those people ignore this spoiler.

Btw Irrelephant, you have too many town reads right now

In a game with an especially high number of scum this is suprising too

how many townreads/scumreads do you have?

i mean, "too many townreads" what does that mean?
there are 6 town and 3 scum
take out yourself and you have 5/3
then is too many townreads 5?
or is it 4?
just explain whyt you think they have "Too many"

mmkay great just wanted something committal that I wouldn't have to feel paranoid was just a copy of what I said

also I agree I have too many townreads
I said the same like 3 pages ago lol
tbf I'm not sure I townread you, you're just fun to interact with
I would actually *like* for the scumteam to be you/creature/eragon but that feels lazy and somewhat unlikely
who do you think I should scumread that I don't right now

and then i realize irrel agrees
^_^

wait how did you get to strong townlean?
I'm not sure I see anything other than mild townlean in your catchup

They were already a town lean (but I felt dirty)

After my re-read and our chat...

Their playstyle is apparently nothing outside their town meta... it sounds like I’m merely tinfoiling that they’ve pocketed me via meta-replication.

I’m not finding their timing/choice/progression on LabRat/Creature as suspicious as I first was... maybe they’re just slashing at their scum read with unnatural conviction in their own unique way, while the real scum swoop in after (?).



It would be good to hear your view of them after your re-read.

Are they currently higher or lower than town lean?

so kinda just a completely flipped read from what you thought?

and to me this doesn't add up to strong town.

"they are pretty much replicating their town meta"
"but i also thought of the possiblity they could be repliciating that as scum and pocketing me"
"nah nvm"

"i first thought this was scummy but not anymore"
"maybe they're just really strongly pushing their SR with unnatural conviction in their unique way"
"real scum are actually probably looking to swoop in after"

these to me feel as if you are REALLY trying your hardest to make them look town, even saying "maybe they are being weird(basically unnatural) in their unique(which also means not normal) way. these don't add up to a strong townread

No clue on Carmen's preference

I think I'm right about AT townlean for DrJ. I had them higher before you pointed out that LAMIST-as-town-meta doesn't mean they have to be town just because they're LAMIST. I haven't had the time to read their ISO like I wanted, too much going on at work today

do you townread creature/labrat, keyser?

AT?

side sarcasm note

Spoiler: spaz

AHHH YOU MADE AN EXCUSE YOU SAID YOU HAVE WORK YOU"RE SO SCUM AHHH YOU SAID YOU ARE BUSY THATS LIEKLY TO COME FROM SCUM THJAN TOWNA

you can ignore this its just me spazzing

I do.

But you know me... winds can change


LabRat would be a good full re-read. To determine: what have they actively discovered this game?

Creature I like, but I wouldn’t be surprised whatever way they flip (this is not me saying they are null).

by "What have the actively discovered this game" do you mean what they've done unique, like, "who've rat pushed?" "what are his reads" etc...?

[Eragon]

:3

921 is a v v wolfy post

:3

[Eragon]

Uh oh Eragon

wat?

[Eragon]

getting off school bus will bbl

[Eragon]

@Eragon - Read mine and Irrelphants posts regarding Dr J (in terms of his playstyle).

Yes, Dr J is still a top end t/lean. Not a full seasoned town read though (Imma waiting for two specific things first).

Strong town lean.
Destined for heaven.

ok I just reliazed you said "strong town

lean

*

my b

[Eragon]

Mostly for coming out of reading DrJ with a strong townread
and wanting him to be town because I like him

I love how we can work together, while resting our hands on our holsters, ready to blow eachother’s heads off. That felt healthy.

:thonk:

[Eragon]

Ausuka has replaced Lefty, thanks!

wow lmao.

NSG/dunn/huntress/tora/nauci when

I just skimmed eragon's ISO

Someone else said they saw a strong start. I didn't see that, all I saw was basically a lot of fluff there. Without knowing any meta of him I can't really draw substantial conclusions as to his alignment from that. I like the tone of his posts, but that's about it. I also noticed in his post on creatures iso, there was a lot of IIOA. I think town will tend to do that actually day 1, since it's about all the scumhunting they can do at that period. Wheras scum, especially newscum doesn't have to scumhunt with the benefit of foreknowledge so they will probably just fluff around not doing much - at least, that's what I did end up doing in my other two games. When you see someone posting a case with IIOA maybe later on that's more scummy imo. Basically what I'm saying, IIOA at this stage would be evident of genuine effort which I think scum probably won't do at that stage

I'm putting that down as slight town based on that

for me...
that start is hella strong
i actually did things in my first 10 posts.

what do you mean by "newscum"?

(and whats IIOA again )

AUSUUKKKKAAAAAAA
watchmen wanted reunion hype \o/


you scum?

HYPE

Sure, if this is a WW reunion I have to get called opportunistic at least once right?

VOTE: Creature

OPPORTUNISTIC

jk u gud fn fam

Uh oh Eragon

i still don't get what this uh oh is about?

[Eragon]

Also, where the hell is Creature? I just realized that he's in the game trying to see who we haven't heard from.
If Creature keeps up this activity, I think its very safe to assume that he is scum.

-Kor

Did you know?

Lions and tigers can crossbreed to create a species known as Ligers..

Votecount 1.03

the worst (3) - LabRat01, Keyser Soze, Irrelephant

Keyser Söze (2) - Lefty, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde
Carmen (1) - LabRat01,
Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde (1) - Carmen
LabRat01 (1) - the worst
Not Voting - Creature, volxen,

Time till end of hell phase 1: (expired on 2018-11-15 17:00:00)

I'm pretty sure there is at least one scum among [TW, Rat, Keyser, and Rel]. I don't think it's that likely that TW, as town, would get up to L-2 so quickly on the second day of day one with no scum involvement.

I don't think TW and Rat are scum together, with them cross voting each other, and with TW's detailed casing of Rat. It seems really unnecessary for them to try to mutually distance themselves and start wagons against each other this early on day one if they are scumbuddies.

I do wish TW would case Keyser to the same degree that he has cased Rat, but he seems to want to hold back on this for some reason.

Out of [TW, Rat], Rat definitely has far more scum equity in my opinion. TW's casing of Rat felt genuine, whereas Rat's interactions with others came off as scummy to me. For example:

wanna check it for me?

Nah, it's not there.

VOTE: Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde

aww, that's a shame VOTE: carmen
I'm p sure some form of it should be there though, cuz the bracket thingy is written in my RC
wanna check it again? or are you lying in order for someone to notice this "contradiction" and derp you as town?

ugh, I was talking about the town RC if it wasn't obvious

I was re-reading the thread and noticed that my post could be understood as a disgusting joke
that vote was half-serious, it was not pure RvS, so read it as so

and c'mon, someone write sth
it's boring being here alone

I don't think Rat really had a good reason for "seriously" voting Carmen here, and she did say that the vote was "half-serious".

how do you read Key's entrance to the thread btw? I wanna try and sort him as quickly as possible so I can comfortably resume quoting The Usual Suspects and burninating scum.

Was the “I wanna try to sort Key as quick as possible” supposed to be an excuse for asking Left to post reads?

No?
but it def feels that way

OR it feels like your question to Lefty was just an excuse to show off your great town motivations.

Which one do you pick?

I don’t like the previous post either (the one I joked about). It’s prob not directly scum motivated, but it feels a really safe and non-personal way of questioning someone.

Why did Rat make such a big deal about this? All TW did was ask Lefty what he thought of Keyser's entrance -- I don't see how that's really LAMIST, which is what Rat seems to be implying here. Yes everyone should be sorting players and coming up with their own reads, but there is nothing wrong with asking player X what they think about player Y, as long as you are still sorting everyone else in addition to that. Rat seems to be suggesting that TW want's other people to sort Keyser for him so he doesn't have to do the work of sorting Keyser himself, which I don't think is accurate at all. She is also suggesting here that TW's motivation in asking the question was to appear LAMIST, as opposed to him actually wanting to know what Lefty thought of Keyser's entrance.

What’s your take on Soze so far? Is the ‘I thought it was just two goons’ and then the break down of DrJ/Rat following that line of thought something you think they’d do/are capable of as scum?

You know, sth like that could prob be faked by a 5-year old.
Possibly younger

It kinda feels like you didn't want to appear useless so decided to write

anything

that might appear helpful without actually considering if it makes sense to ask about that.

Do not do it like that. If you want to do sth, you can comment on the stuff:
-I wrote about duck,
-keyser wrote about me&DrJ,
-DrJ wrote about me/keiser
-or w/e.
Just pick a wagon and go with it, there’s no need to be wary here

Again, here Rat is criticizing someone for asking a question regarding Keyser. I don't think her criticism of Lefty was really warranted here -- he asks a question about Keyser, and she insinuates that his reason for asking the question was to appear like he was doing something, as opposed to it being a question he genuinely wanted answered. In other words, she is again suggesting that the motivation behind the question was to purposefully appear LAMIST, as opposed to it just being a question that Lefty wanted answered. It's just odd that on two different occasions, two different people ask a question about Keyser, and Rat attacks (unreasonably IMO) both TW and Lefty for asking their respective questions about Keyser. I would think town!Rat would understand that this game isn't just about everyone forming their own reads in isolation and then presenting their readslist to the rest of the group, but it's largely a game that involves interacting with everyone else to understand their motivations, which includes asking players questions such as, "what did you think about X from player Y?" The fact that Rat's initial reaction to both questions about Keyser was to immediately label them as attempts to be LAMIST rather than as genuine questions that were asked to gather information to help gamesolve, seems much more likely to come from scum than town.

VOTE: LabRat01

here is another post where you call creature out simply b/c he hasn't posted but forgot volxen again

What if the team is {Lab, Creature, TW}?

-Kor (to both)

[Eragon]

i get that activity is the way to read creature, but its hard to read someone on activity when they dont post in the game at all?

so i just feel its REALLY weird that you called out creature and think he's scum, but you didn't even give a candle to volxen

[Eragon]

im doing a volxen ISO now, so instead of requoting that mega intro-post


-its not hard to say theres at least one scum in {TW, Rat, keyser, irrel} when that makes up 4/9 of the playerlist, 4/8 if you consider yourself as town, meaning that takes up 50% of the playerlist remaining.

so calling at least one scum is actually a granted,

the rest of that passage was fine but like either alignment can easily post that.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
accusses rat for voting carmen half-seriously without reasoning in post 16

just feels opportunistic of rat's semantics tbh.

not all votes have good reasoning, especially when its not even off the first page of the game yet.
plus rat said it was half-serious, meaning there was some joke in there, although also some serious.

but on that note, serious /=/ well-reasoned.
serious votes can be votes without reason to cause pressure
serious votes can be gut pings that you can't articulate
Serious votes can be something you see but are scared to share(i guess? i dont really know on this <:)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ye i agree with this, but also i see it as surface level like all those words add up to "why are you making a big deal and why do you think its LAMIST and why are you suggesting he isnt trying to do work"
i dont mean its scummy, this part is just NAI
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it false though?
:^)

btw same as the above.

and then the vote.

So really the reasoning for the vote is "hes being too pushy saying that people are LAMIST and making too big a deal out of nothing"
not unnaceptable, but the tunnel on rat pings me, especially with the assumptions going on.

[Eragon]

do i kill all you guys with a massive wall or do i spoiler it and then no one will read it...

choices choices

[Eragon]

i give thou fools 5 minutes to decide

[Eragon]

I decided to spoil it beacause im nice and it hurt my eyes

Spoiler:

actually
VOTE: Creature

lynch this today for 11/10 guaranteed scumflip
send Dr. J to heaven tomorrow

if Lab/Keyser are town they can prove it

Why do you think Creature is scum, and why is he a better lynch than Rat?

asking "why is he a better lynch" is simply busywork that is always opinionated depending on reads.

@volxen putting associations, VCA and scum partner theories aside, are you t/reading the worst independently?

I don't feel comfortable giving TW a townread yet, no. I do think he made a good case against Rat, especially in post 297, and I do find Rat to have the most scum equity at the moment, but I'm not ready to write off TW as town yet either.

Where I am currently at is I find Dr. J to be the most towny player and Rat to be the most scummy player. I'm still kind of unsure on everyone else.

@Keyser, I am starting to get concerned that if Rat is scum, you could be one of her partners. As I pointed out earlier, it was just odd how quick she was to attack two different people for asking, in my opinion, completely legitimate questions about your slot. If she is scum it's possible that she is simply buddying/defending town!Keyser, but the way she wanted to shut down both questions about Keyser's slot could be indicative of SvS interactions. Keyser, if Rat is scum, why is TW more likely to be one of her partners than you?

But in any case, do you really think TW would gambit as scum and try to get his one of his scumbuddies sent to hell on day one? I would consider that quite a risky gambit because if he does that, then the only way he could win as scum is if both he and his remaining scumbuddy get sent to Heaven. So unless he's convinced that both he and his other scumbuddy could get a lot of towncredit for busing Rat, it seems like quite a risky play to open on day one by busing one of his partners in a game mode that, in my opinion, heavily discourages busing.

i have pretty good vibes about this post.
the fact they are going back and forth on reasons that TW is town but maybe should'nt be written off yet strikes me as truly trying to solve the slot, as in, not just insta-towning the slot,
the stuff about keyser too, "its possible that this is ____, BUT also it could be [opposite], but THIS [proves the first point].
the question is NAI

also the stuff about TW is really true as well, "do you think TW would gambit this" "[explains why it would probably be a bad choice] [gives reasoning it might not be a bad choice] [comes back with conclusion]"
feels like a towny thought process from all angles instead of tunneling a single point.

You think scum-labrat is chainsaw defending scum-me on PAGE ONE against TWO PLAYERS?

I don't think it's too far-fetched that scum!Rat would chainsaw defend one of her scumbuddies against two players. And her two posts where she attacked both TW and Lefty for asking a question about your slot were on pages three and four, not on page one:

boom gottem :^)
serious note: i do see this, and although im not used to (normally) scum hard-defending other scum, i've heard people do it often here? but another note is Scum!rat chainsawing town!Keyser for towncred and/or bad associations with keyser,

how do you read Key's entrance to the thread btw? I wanna try and sort him as quickly as possible so I can comfortably resume quoting The Usual Suspects and burninating scum.

Was the “I wanna try to sort Key as quick as possible” supposed to be an excuse for asking Left to post reads?

No?
but it def feels that way
OR it feels like your question to Lefty was just an excuse to show off your great town motivations.
Which one do you pick?

I don’t like the previous post either (the one I joked about). It’s prob not directly scum motivated, but it feels a really safe and non-personal way of questioning someone.

This was at the bottom of page three.

What’s your take on Soze so far? Is the ‘I thought it was just two goons’ and then the break down of DrJ/Rat following that line of thought something you think they’d do/are capable of as scum?

You know, sth like that could prob be faked by a 5-year old.
Possibly younger

It kinda feels like you didn't want to appear useless so decided to write

anything

that might appear helpful without actually considering if it makes sense to ask about that.
Do not do it like that. If you want to do sth, you can comment on the stuff:
-I wrote about duck,
-keyser wrote about me&DrJ,
-DrJ wrote about me/keiser
-or w/e.
Just pick a wagon and go with it, there’s no need to be wary here

And this was as the top of page four.

And both posts were written within seven minutes of each other, which makes it even more odd.

the stuff about seven minutes is ???

first off, wouldn't that be expected his posts are near each other???
plus saying that its odd is borderline angleshooting and you shouldn't use that ever.

Out of [TW, Rat], Rat definitely has far more scum equity in my opinion. TW's casing of Rat felt genuine, whereas Rat's interactions with others came off as scummy to me. For example:
[quote="In post 307, volxen]

wanna check it for me?

Nah, it's not there.

VOTE: Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde

aww, that's a shame VOTE: carmen
I'm p sure some form of it should be there though, cuz the bracket thingy is written in my RC
wanna check it again? or are you lying in order for someone to notice this "contradiction" and derp you as town?

ugh, I was talking about the town RC if it wasn't obvious

I was re-reading the thread and noticed that my post could be understood as a disgusting joke
that vote was half-serious, it was not pure RvS, so read it as so

and c'mon, someone write sth
it's boring being here alone

I don't think Rat really had a good reason for "seriously" voting Carmen here, and she did say that the vote was "half-serious".

First off, volx seems to have read the thread till duck’s posts, so he should have also been aware of the whole conversation between me and korina. I don’t feel like going all over it again and this argument is

exactly

the same one I’ve been arguing with Korina about.

If he does fully understand why I pushed Carmen, I find it off that he’d find it important enough to mention here.
and if he disagreed to my answers to Korina’s pushes, he should have quoted those posts, not this one.

Him not doing that and including the exact same reasoning kinda feels like he made the argument just “to make the read look more townie/impressive” and doesn’t actually care to think about it seriously

how do you read Key's entrance to the thread btw? I wanna try and sort him as quickly as possible so I can comfortably resume quoting The Usual Suspects and burninating scum.

Was the “I wanna try to sort Key as quick as possible” supposed to be an excuse for asking Left to post reads?

No?
but it def feels that way

OR it feels like your question to Lefty was just an excuse to show off your great town motivations.

Which one do you pick?

I don’t like the previous post either (the one I joked about). It’s prob not directly scum motivated, but it feels a really safe and non-personal way of questioning someone.

Why did Rat make such a big deal about this? All TW did was ask Lefty what he thought of Keyser's entrance -- I don't see how that's really LAMIST, which is what Rat seems to be implying here.
Yes everyone should be sorting players and coming up with their own reads, but there is nothing wrong with asking player X what they think about player Y, as long as you are still sorting everyone else in addition to that.
Rat seems to be suggesting that TW wants other people to sort Keyser for him so he doesn't have to do the work of sorting Keyser himself, which I don't think is accurate at all.
She is also suggesting here that TW's motivation in asking the question was to appear LAMIST, as opposed to him actually wanting to know what Lefty thought of Keyser's entrance.

This one is actually fair, except the “why did rat make such a big deal of this?” part.
This is nearly the same thing as in the last part of the quote, but it’s more visible in the quote there, so just read it there, but it feels kinda fake to me that a player who’s capable of writing an elaborate analysis like this one would base his reads on reasons that are just so obviously wrong.

And the way he defended TW was funny imo. Prob too daring to be SvS, but I don’t think I can say anything more about that

What’s your take on Soze so far? Is the ‘I thought it was just two goons’ and then the break down of DrJ/Rat following that line of thought something you think they’d do/are capable of as scum?

You know, sth like that could prob be faked by a 5-year old.
Possibly younger

It kinda feels like you didn't want to appear useless so decided to write

anything

that might appear helpful without actually considering if it makes sense to ask about that.

Do not do it like that. If you want to do sth, you can comment on the stuff:
-I wrote about duck,
-keyser wrote about me&DrJ,
-DrJ wrote about me/keiser
-or w/e.
Just pick a wagon and go with it, there’s no need to be wary here

Again, here Rat is criticizing someone for asking a question regarding Keyser. I don't think her criticism of Lefty was really warranted here -- he asks a question about Keyser, and she insinuates that his reason for asking the question was to appear like he was doing something, as opposed to it being a question he genuinely wanted answered. In other words, she is again suggesting that the motivation behind the question was to purposefully appear LAMIST, as opposed to it just being a question that Lefty wanted answered.
It's just odd that on two different occasions, two different people ask a question about Keyser, and Rat attacks (unreasonably IMO) both TW and Lefty for asking their respective questions about Keyser.

Yes, I think Lefty’s post was lamist. I don’t think it’s necessarily scum indicative though, because awkwardness and not knowing what to write early in the game is not really scummy. Both town and scum can feel that way and even though his question/post wasn’t sincere imo, both alignments could have had their reasons for doing it.
The read was kind of a push, but it was also a suggestion to do sth else, because even if they’re town, their motivation isn’t difficult to notice and it’s gonna get them lynched if they keep doing that for a long time.

I would think town!Rat would understand that this game isn't just about everyone forming their own reads in isolation and then presenting their readslist to the rest of the group, but it's largely a game that involves interacting with everyone else to understand their motivations, which includes asking players questions such as, "what did you think about X from player Y?" The fact that Rat's initial reaction to both questions about Keyser was to immediately label them as attempts to be LAMIST rather than as genuine questions that were asked to gather information to help gamesolve, seems much more likely to come from scum than town.

VOTE: LabRat01

Here he pushes me for pushing others instead of asking for their motivations, which I find funny coming from someone with such a high game-count.
Even regardless of how many games he played, I find it hard to believe that a player who’s capable of writing such an elaborate analysis of my posts would be unaware that “pushing people” “allows you to read them better” and progresses the game, which is necessary at any point of the game.
Like, c’mon, he did play a lot of games on the site so he should have realized that if people ask questions, they’re most likely gonna get calm, composed answers, which aren’t really gonna help you do anything. Of course some people might just not like pushing others without a reason, but it doesn’t mean others can’t do that and everyone who pushes people early is scum.

Like, I really don’t want to believe that he’s being serious here. Him pushing me for that feels like he was just forcing himself to find a looong, non-sheepy reason for me being scum, without actually caring if it actually makes sense or not.
This post is long and I’ll give him credit for saying that the reasons behind my pushes were bad (even though they weren't), but the main part of it is just terribly empty.

And I don’t like how he disappeared right after writing that. Except the short VCA reasoning and TR on duck, he hasn’t done anything to progress the game, not even asking questions which he was pushing me for.
That’s just incredibly lazy

P.Edit…
Which just changed, so ignore that part.

If you are town, you are really misunderstanding why I am scumreading you -- or you are deliberately trying to misrepresent me if you are scum. I am not against aggressively pressuring and pushing people. I do it myself all the time, and I have even put someone at L-1 on page one of a newbie game as town (see: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=77453) precisely because I wanted to pressure that person. The last thing I am against is pressuring people to see how they react.

No, my problem is that you tried to

shut down/discourage

legitimate questions from both TW and Lefty, both of which were questions about Keyser's slot. In your post you seem to be setting up this false dichotomy where a choice has to be made between questioning someone vs pressuring someone. Why does it have to be either or? You can certainly ask people legitimate questions while simultaneously pressuring them. You want to push TW and Lefty to see how they react? Fine, but you shouldn't be trying to shut down and discourage the legitimate questions they asked about Keyser's slot.

THAT

is what I have a problem with -- you could have pressured Lefty and TW without trying to shutdown their questions about Keyser.

The first one you quoted didn't shut it down, it pushed them for the questioning or whatever happened. the second one you quoted "no, dont do that" which yes, shuts its down, but not extremely forcefully IMO, but i do see where you are getting at(and you used false dichotomy which im fine with giving you a /s townread for :3)

I'm struggling to see the town motivation in trying to shutdown both of their respective questions about Keyser. I mean, if TW and Lefty are both town, think about it from their perspective. If they are both town, and they find one another to be townie, doesn't it make sense for them to talk to one another about Keyser, especially if they are both trying to get an accurate read on Keyser? I mean this is a team game after all, so it makes sense to discuss your reads and other slots with people you find to be towny. So they ask legitimate questions of each other about Keyser's slot, and then you come along and within seven minutes, write two back-to-back posts where you basically call both of them LAMIST, and tell both of them that they are wasting time by asking each other questions about Keyser's slot. But why call it a waste of time -- why assume the questions they were asking each other wouldn't help both of them get a better read on Keyser? Because if getting answers to their questions would help them to better sort Keyser, then it would be a pretty good usage of time, no?

yada yada yada "theres no town motivation in stopping their talking, and you shutting their legit questions down is wolfy" done.

and again, STOP WITH THE ANGLESHOOTING OF "7 MINUTES APART"
(not that it even affects anything because IT MAKES SENSE THE POSTS WOULD BE BY EACH OTHER BECAUSE THATS WHEN HE'S POSTING)
you're make good reads this game volxen, i like that, but when you start grasping for straws like that it just annoys the fuck out of me.

Again the problem isn't that you were aggressive towards TW and Lefty, it's that you tried to "redirect" them away from talking about Keyser and questioning each other about Keyser, when I don't believe you had a legitimate reason for doing so. So yes, for now I am quite skeptical of your motivations.

VOTE: LabRat01

this tunnel is getting a bit unsatisying
we get that you scumread labrat strongly
we really do.
( i quoted the vote here because it was the easiest to quote. its not neccesarily what im referring to in this)

You think scum-labrat is chainsaw defending scum-me on PAGE ONE against TWO PLAYERS?

why is this so ridiculous...?
the reason chainsawing is a scumtell is that inexperienced scum players tend to do it unintentionally

I was just being OMGUS’y against you and Volxen it seems......... unwilling to accept being scum read unjustly.

[In truth though, in that scenario, ‘scum-LabRat’ was using me as a springboard to attack ‘townies’ for questioning me (who she knows is town).]

Obviously, I’m terribly wrong about everyone.

Let’s kill LabRat then “town”.

VOTE: LabRat

@TW, what do you think about this? Keyser is essentially saying that if Rat is scum, she is buddying/defending him in a similar manner to how I buddied/defended Keyser as scum in Watcher Wanted (link for anyone interested to that game: viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77119). As you, Irrelephant, and Keyser will all recall, as scum in that game most of my ISO revolved around Keyser, and I chainsaw defended him by attacking people who attacked him (e.g., 2.781/Huntress). To quote Keyser, my strategy as scum in that game was to use Keyser as a springboard to attack and scumpaint any townies who attacked him. Keyser is claiming that may be happening again in this game, except this time it is Rat who is buddying/defending him.

Do you think that is likely to be going on here -- do you think town!Keyser is being buddied/defended by scum!Rat? Does Rat's treatment of Keyser's slot seem similar to how I treated Keyser in Watcher Wanted, where Keyser was town and I was scum? Or do you think the interactions between Rat and Keyser are more likely SvS?

the question to TW is good. the post is well reasoned.
so whats YOUR thought about what you just posted.
what do YOU think.
similar to what someone said before,
"dont let TW make your reads for you, make your own"
the questions at the end are good and again trying to truly "solve" the issue of alignments.
but also can you answer them yourself?

@TW, what do you think about this? Keyser is essentially saying that if Rat is scum, she is buddying/defending him in a similar manner to how I buddied/defended Keyser as scum in Watcher Wanted (link for anyone interested to that game: viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77119). As you, Irrelephant, and Keyser will all recall, as scum in that game most of my ISO revolved around Keyser, and I chainsaw defended him by attacking people who attacked him (e.g., 2.781/Huntress). To quote Keyser, my strategy as scum in that game was to use Keyser as a springboard to attack and scumpaint any townies who attacked him. Keyser is claiming that may be happening again in this game, except this time it is Rat who is buddying/defending him.

Do you think that is likely to be going on here -- do you think town!Keyser is being buddied/defended by scum!Rat? Does Rat's treatment of Keyser's slot seem similar to how I treated Keyser in Watcher Wanted, where Keyser was town and I was scum? Or do you think the interactions between Rat and Keyser are more likely SvS?

In short:

most likely: SvS
second most likely: town!labby / scum!Keyser
then: scum!labby / town!keyser
probably never: TvT

@TW,

Why would town!Rat chainsaw defend scum!Keyser in these two posts thugh?

how do you read Key's entrance to the thread btw? I wanna try and sort him as quickly as possible so I can comfortably resume quoting The Usual Suspects and burninating scum.

Was the “I wanna try to sort Key as quick as possible” supposed to be an excuse for asking Left to post reads?

No?
but it def feels that way
OR it feels like your question to Lefty was just an excuse to show off your great town motivations.
Which one do you pick?

I don’t like the previous post either (the one I joked about). It’s prob not directly scum motivated, but it feels a really safe and non-personal way of questioning someone.

What’s your take on Soze so far? Is the ‘I thought it was just two goons’ and then the break down of DrJ/Rat following that line of thought something you think they’d do/are capable of as scum?

You know, sth like that could prob be faked by a 5-year old.
Possibly younger

It kinda feels like you didn't want to appear useless so decided to write

anything

that might appear helpful without actually considering if it makes sense to ask about that.
Do not do it like that. If you want to do sth, you can comment on the stuff:
-I wrote about duck,
-keyser wrote about me&DrJ,
-DrJ wrote about me/keiser
-or w/e.
Just pick a wagon and go with it, there’s no need to be wary here

I agree they could simply be scum together. But if one of them is scum and one of them is town, scum!Rat and town!Keyser seems far more likely to me than scum!Keyser and and town!Rat.

first off, from my site its more likely scum defends town and town defends scum than scum defending scum.
scum would defend town, obviously, for anti-spew and bad associations
town defends scum, because, first off, they aren't worried about associations because obviously they don't know peoples alignments and are not informed, thus they only can go off what they feel. Second off, they can have a townread on someone and defend them right? im not saying this is whats happening, im saying its a possiblity.

for me, based on what i have seen, its probable TvS in one way or another then S v S
and maybe bare minimum TvT with 2 people just going at it with defense fest?

@TW, earlier you said you would present your full case against scum!Keyser if one of your townreads requested it.

I'm one of your townreads, so I would like to take you up on that. I need to case Keyser again myself, but I need you to help me understand how you have come to the conclusion that Keyser has more scum equity than Labrat.

Perhaps I need to skim through some of Keyser's scum games? My only experience with Keyser is Watcher Wanted, where he was town.

this is good and bad(i feel more good than bad)

good: wants to see a full case on keyser, and also realizes that they don't have experience with scum keys so they should go read.
bad: continues the labrat tunnel and thinks that its weird that TW feels keyser more liekly scum than labrat.

@Labrat, what are your thoughts on The Worst and Keyser at the moment?

good question, NAI in practice.

g r o o a n

my reservation is I have some spicy tells on keyser which I believe are working really well. as soon as I name them I become unable to use them again

are you sure you can't take my word for it or read it from his content?

I see. Is your scumread of him based entirely off of his content from this game, or is it in part a meta read based on other games you have played with him? Would I need to read his other games to be able to see these same tells that you are seeing from him?

And have you played with scum!Keyser before in other games?

same as above but without the bad.

We'll, I'm off to bed
Hoping town does the right thing and votes creature

It will flip scum, I'm 99% sure

Lcp


Also @tw what 521 page monstrosity is that?!

Yes, that's why I asked TW about it as well. I don't intend to read all 521 pages of Heroes Wanted, but I feel like reading a portion of it could hopefully help me to understand TW's meta read of Creature. That's why I would like TW to narrow down what portion of that game would be most beneficial to read.

lol this post

Like volxen who just came here to fart and left

So now I am scum because I asked TW about another game of yours because it might help me to read your slot?

You don't seem to have a genuine interest in solving this game.

VOTE: Creature

this is a very quick turn-around and quick-mis-interpret, due to creature not even calling you scum in that post?
"like volxen who just came in, farted, and left"
and you get
"now im scum because i asked a question about your game"


{enter Eragon}

TL;DR(IM STILL EXPECTING YOU TO AT LEAST SKIM THE WALL YOU LAZY BOIS)
Things I like:
-going back and forth on their own posts
-truly trying to solve
-asking other people questions and giving a detailed explanation on what they want
-towny parts of it(you can read the wall)
-good/nuanced(using this b/c its what I’ve heard its described as) reads
-staying consistent with their reads
-good questions
-‘want’ to solve

Things I dislike:
-hard-tunnel of rat
-saying a LOT OF WORDS to say the same thing
-GODDAMN ANGLESHOOTING HOW HARD IS IT
-reaching for straws a little on Rat
-asking other people questions but not answering their own question
-quick return on creature and fmpov a mis-interpretation.

conclusion:

the good outwieghs the bad, and the nuance, the questions, the consistency, and the trying to solve are all good towny-tells. I don't however, feel as confident in this as people(Irrelephant) are and i don't see any reason for him to be that strong of a townread, albeit i do see towny pings, there are some things i find i bit wolfy.
Still

Town

: slightly above creature

[Eragon]

{volxen}
{creature, Doc J, tw}
(lefty, irrel}
{keyser, lab}


NOTE: i am not labeling these because i do not feel confident in most of the reads yet, and the strengths of them are skewed by that but for now. (for example, my brackets show that Volxen is my strongest tr by far and close to locktown, yet i don't quite feel that confident}
so its just
{strongest townread}
{next strongest}
{next}
{weakest}

basically im happy with any of the bottom 4 being lynched, but if you so choose creature/doc J. to be lynched i wont neccesarilly complain( i will complain about TW)

[Eragon]

so you're more or less ok w lynching anyone in the game except me and volxy eh

right now...

yes.

i prefer to lynch in lefty(ausuka), irrel, keyser, and lab, but i wouldn't complain about lynching creature( for one my TR is decreasing, and for two it gives hella info) and doc J, i think they are town but its certainly not strong, so i'd much rather not, but if for some reason? ya'll decide to lynch them id be not sad

[Eragon]

FYI please pray for my english and mandarin test grades to be at least a B

Spoiler:

and also my science tommorow

and my math tuesday

oh god i feel like im dying in stress lmao

[Eragon]

don't get Es for Eragon
get As for Aragorn

I believe in you Elessar!

[Eragon]

Viggo Mortensen is indeed awesome
I'm gonna lurk a little til others appear...

Do you still scumread me?

If so, why anything other than PoE?

[Eragon]

K it’s late now.

Goodnight.

[Eragon]

whats the vc?

[Eragon]

Labby
company

the time has come
VOTE: Creature

eh.

[Eragon]

Everyone will receive a Mafia Goon or Vanilla Townie role PM
The game cycles between hell phase and heaven phase, starting with a hell phase

@Manatee

lovely are you enforcing this rule via plurality lynching? <3

you won't need to plurality 0.0

i'll hammer if neccesary

[Eragon]

{quack quack}
{DrJ, volxen}
{Labby}
{Ausuka, Relly}
{Eragon}
{Keyser}
{Creature}

decent chance I am being Very Bad here but that's a block of 4 people i really want to be town

basically sorted by how likely I am to send them to heaven

chance I'm being finessed by Relly and he does read s/s with Keyser v much but also like.... keyser randomly reads as s/s with players out of nowhere even when they're t/t so it's kind of not a super reliable gut ping. Still if I'm being really bad it's in the Rel/Ausuka tier and means I'm wrong on Era.

I think the way Era is forming detailed reads comes from a town mindset before a scum mindset but there isn't anything there that's hard to fake as scum. I'm wrong on him before Keyser, and wrong on Keyser before Creature imo

Keyser can be town but I need a contextual meta influenced re-dive and will probably case him in.... hell 2? idk exactly yet

I feel ok rn

so im assuming you are pretty sure keyser flips scum based off of this and other posts, but you think the most likely thing is Town lab defending Scum keyser and then hard-pushing him EoD?

[Eragon]

also: I propose either myself or Volxen for heaven 1 and will need a fair bit of convincing to send a lower read

Obviously volxen is a better pick objectively because Rel+I are a good duo to air dirty laundry abt Keyser but he's also like... probably a bit better at & more interested in mafia than I am in a realistic sense so.... Idrk

i definitely don't disagree with this

[Eragon]

@the worst - you think I’m scum-scum with nearly everyone. Labby, Creature, Irrelphant and

probably even eragon?

What does that tell you? I’m the constant in your suspicions. I’m the player who looks scummy through his interactions (I would call pro-active sorting) with most of the players you don’t t/read

the fuck is this supposed to mean

[Eragon]

i'm kind of on the run rn, so I can't write much, but it's L-1, right? So no, give me at least some time to paste the other reads. Manatee should be asleep rn anyways, so it shouldn't even make a difference
And why creat over keyser?

Labby I really really like playing with you and if you're scum I'll cry
so
fess up if you are pls

uh, got no idea what fess up means, but thanks, I guess?

"confess"
"fess"
"give up"

basically just tell tw if you are scum so he doesn't cry and binge eat 10 pounds of bread

[Eragon]

You said your reads had changed?

Actually I aborted most of my reads

what does aborted mean in this context???

btw 1000th post boom bish

[Eragon]

Cool Ausuka replaced in

Derp not SvS
probably

knowing creature it could by anything

[Eragon]

You said your reads had changed?

Actually I aborted most of my reads

what does aborted mean in this context???

btw 1000th post boom bish

Somewhat like knocking all back to null

eeee

[Eragon]

Always assume the worst when preparing for the next phase. Like do you have plans if I flip town. My wagon will be pretty sketchy when I do.

yes.


lynch the sheeps that voted you with either same reasoning or no reasoning and were oddly opportunstic, as well as being able to solve some other people without them being distracted by tunneling you

and also read your ISO again and make you proud

your lynch would not be in vain, but i still prefer a seperate one

[Eragon]

I don't feel that good about Eragon tbh

can you articulate why?

[Eragon]

i'll hammer if neccesary

What was your whole entrance scene then - Masturbatory posturing?


Surely you must have a PoE?

:Mega_Thonk:

i do have a PoE, and i just posted it( not just but w/e nothings changed)

thats why i said "if neccessary"

i prefer not lynching creature

but lynching creature > no lynching or having wagons be tied

[Eragon]

{volxen}
{creature, Doc J, tw}
(lefty, irrel}
{keyser, lab}


NOTE: i am not labeling these because i do not feel confident in most of the reads yet, and the strengths of them are skewed by that but for now. (for example, my brackets show that Volxen is my strongest tr by far and close to locktown, yet i don't quite feel that confident}
so its just
{strongest townread}
{next strongest}
{next}
{weakest}

basically im happy with any of the bottom 4 being lynched, but if you so choose creature/doc J. to be lynched i wont neccesarilly complain( i will complain about TW)

so you're more or less ok w lynching anyone in the game except me and volxy eh

right now...

yes.

i prefer to lynch in lefty(ausuka), irrel, keyser, and lab, but i wouldn't complain about lynching creature( for one my TR is decreasing, and for two it gives hella info) and doc J, i think they are town but its certainly not strong, so i'd much rather not, but if for some reason? ya'll decide to lynch them id be not sad

these 2

its basically anyone except tw/volxen with preffering not to lynch Doc J/creatures

[Eragon]

ummm i just reliazed day ends right when school gets out so all i'll have is some time during lunch and break to make a couple phone posts

[Eragon]

I’m back.

I skimmed thread but can’t respond really to specific posts


Keyser’s AtE And shit is incredibly wolfy but makes me sad to lynch him

I mean “I was VT” in the past-tense when you aren’t even the top wagon?
That’s honestly bullshit.
But it’s just sad ;_;

Creature on the other hand I still hold his tone has been towny but i’ve Liked his posts a lot less recently

[Eragon]

I mean “I was VT” in the past-tense when you aren’t even the top wagon?
That’s honestly bullshit.
But it’s just sad ;_;

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure that post was a joke since we're all vanilla.

I mean... it sounds like he’s legit accepting that his lynch was past and he already flipped.


I got the sense of a twilight post-hammer post

[Eragon]

Exactly

[Eragon]

I’ll be voting one of keyser/creature in 20 minutes

[Eragon]

Explain how I’m so damn high.

I have been towny IMO yes, but I’m not out of my scum range insofar as I know(and it’s me)

[Eragon]

I was looking at your posts and thinking that this isn't scum!you. Scum!You seemed more timid in SSBUPick, versus this game where you seem a bit more straightforward and brash.
Additionally, looking at he number of posts this game (so far) compared to SSBUPick is leading me to believe that this is town!you solely based on activity.

-Kor

(Don’t read my good wolf games then when I 400 post)

:3

[Eragon]

... are you now trying to make me doubt you being town?
Also, give links.

-Kor

It’s on homesite and I’m on mobile


You’re from ToS right?


Look up VFM 34:purgatory(I’m serious lol)

[Eragon]

... are you now trying to make me doubt you being town?
Also, give links.

-Kor

I’m just making sure you have an educated read

I don’t like being misread for play style reasons

Nor do I like being correctly read for the wrong reasons

[Eragon]

I have no objections

Also I MOST LIKELY won’t be on until after EoD unless I can sneak in in class

[Eragon]

hopefully my internet will be fixed today and i can post later on.


from here on im sticking to my reads lmao

[Eragon]

Ouch ok.

Unless I get a reason to vote elsewhere will likely vote heaven in {Jekyll, Keyser}

who do you think keyser is town?
i could see having some reasons for a town lean, but willing to put in heaven im suprised tbh.

This Creature-Keyser scum team agenda must stop.

uhh creature died, so yes, it did stop...

I was only going to catch up until I got reads to play with; I work much better from realtime and don't enjoy catchup. Was that wrong of me?

Yeah Keyser wagon for heaven probably isn't happening but whatever.

Pedit: Why can't we sort him now?

thats fine.

i feel the same way as you

My intent to sort keyser tomorrow has acrually firmed up because I desperately need a townflip rn to confirm I'm not gOiNg CrAzY

i could name 4 people to vote i am confident in, but 1 is you and 1 is me and the other you voted :3 and the other is Doc. J

(I know that the basic answer to that is going to be "meta" like you've said in your ISO and I probably should've said that in the post above, sorry. I just don't understand why his ISO is so towny and I don't understand why his scumgame can't have just, improved - I don't think it's that rare.)

I'm concerned about him, mainly due to his general push of {Creature, Keyser, Eragon} i.e the most suspected players in the game as a category.

pedit: I think I'm alright at interacting with you? So I probably could just play for a few days and if I don't have a definite read back then go for the quotewalls etc.

why do you specifically suspect volxen who is pushing those 3 instead of, for example, TW, who also suspects those 3?

I think we should actually let my D1 PoE (Ausuka, LabRat and Eragon) take the lead for the heaven phase

I’d love to see them send someone town to heaven.

vote volxen or Doc. J

EZPZ

So wait, we couldn’t send Ausuka to hell coz they’d only made 22 posts... but now we’re gonna send Volxen to heaven who has only 20 posts?

i don't think thats the reason or lacktherof of sending them to heaven or not?

and anyways, volxens 20 posts has a ton of words and stuff, like their 20 posts = 50 normal posts.

I say we sort Dr J and LabRat today, in regard oath to heaven.

Lots of data on both.

Lots of connections on both.

Lots of opinions on both.

im good with this

Gonna park my vote there for now and look at LabRat. Didn’t like where their focus was in the latter part of D1 (they kept pressure on Creature and me). They began D1 as an easy town read, but ended it in my PoE - now I gotta take off my OMGUS glasses.

so they were an easy read while defending you but once they pushed you, they lost towniness
that sounds right.
/s

I'd be inclined to put tw in heaven though obviously I'm not averse to being put in myself

Let me see who else is in my heaven pool

I wasn't expecting that result... I had him down as basically confirmed scum. I guess I tunneled too much. I need to reread a bit in light of that.

300k word re-read cannoneer :3

Also, like, I need my laptop back for that, because there’s no way in hell I’m posting like 8 different posts from my phone, much less try to salvage like 30+ pages worth of quotes.

-Kor

jesus thats a lot of pages

Trying to figure out the point where LabRat turned on me, and why.


Start of D1, I felt we were mutually 'happy' with eachother (defending eachother..?).
LabRat even was happy with my apology for voting for her (even though she was a t/read of mine), but not to do it again.

so ye, when they were defending each other, keyser townread lab, but then...

Then LabRat said he was going to do a re-read...

*MAYBE HERE*

Then LabRat started her surprising late assault on me:

when lab starts to push keyser, keyser loses the townread? thats just pure OMGUS and a lot of deflection.

"I want to lynch him today."
"don’t like his interactions with Creature"
"the way he was going about TW the whole game was just weird"
"the way Keyser pushed TW during the game to be really off"
"didn’t also get a good feeling out of the way he interacted with TW in general"
"stressed scum"
"POE, MY ASS, NO IT’S NOT"
"it feels like you’re either getting desperate and trying to think of bullshit that would save you and creat from getting lynched"
"Seriously, this is awful"
"vote keyser with me"
"what do you think about lynching him?"
"wagon Keyser with me"

Ooooh, here is an interesting post, late D1.

Eragon rages a question to TW, but LabRat answers:

so im assuming you are pretty sure keyser flips scum based off of this and other posts, but you think the most likely thing is Town lab defending Scum keyser and then hard-pushing him EoD?

I don’t think I’ve ever defended him? I didn’t have a strong read on him through most of the game and even if I wanted to, I wouldn’t even have an opportunity to defend him till like, people started making reads that weren’t 90% based on meta… It was more of him defending me through most of the game

This legit feels sounds like a townie who doesn't want to be connected with scummy slime (me)

, or seen to be doing a suspicious U-TURN. LabRat jumped in to answering Eragon's question to TW and put the record straight: 'I HAVE NEVER HAD TOWN RELATIONS WITH THAT MAN!'
I think LabRat may be back in my good books.

so its a good thing that he is worried about assocations or looking suspicious?
i dont really understand how thats towny? can you explain how being scared of being scumread is towny?

Am I miss-reading this?

3 really bad posts from Eragon EoD1:

i'll hammer if neccesary

What was your whole entrance scene then - Masturbatory posturing?


Surely you must have a PoE?

so im assuming you meant my post in this, not TW.

the hammer, "IF

NECCESARY

was me forgetting about plurality and just saying i'd rather a creature lynch than a no-lynch

its really funny how you ignored all my posts about the PoE and how i felt creature "was slightly leaning town IMO, but if thats the lynch that happens i wont complain too much."

Keyser’s AtE And shit is incredibly wolfy but makes me sad to lynch him

Creature on the other hand I still hold his tone has been towny but i’ve Liked his posts a lot less recently

whats wrong with this????i think their tone was towny but some of their EoD posts were wolfy. reads can change right? and if not, then you are wolf because you changed you read on Labrat twice, from strong town to nullish wolfish to town again. So what is it? are you wolf because reads change, or are you pushing this baseless-ly due to reads having a possiblity of change?

I’ll be voting one of keyser/creature in 20 minutes

i scumread you, and if there was a wagon on you i woulda gone for you over creature, but i didn't have time to really push anything cause i was on mobile eating lunch at school, thus the "20 minutes" its just me announcing who i will vote and the latest i would.

Stinks of opportunistic and very willing to execute the misslynch and keep the focus/pressure on us.... "yeah, they look so towny but, but, but, but yeah they also sound so scummy"

yes, i thought their tone was towny.... whats so damn hard to understand???? wolves cant have towny tones? i thought their posts were slightly scummy towards the end, but i still thought their town was towny? is there a fucking problem with that??? i didn't have the time or the ability to stop their lynch at the time, so what could i do???

I.e their actions do not reflect their supposed reads.

scumread you, pushed you
light-townread creature, was fine with creature being lynched, AS I EXPRESSED IN MULTIPLE POSTS YOU ARE IGNORING,
those seem pretty reflecting to me

Why was your D1 vote on Dr J and not me/Lab?

i never even voted D1

3 really bad posts from Eragon EoD1:

i'll hammer if neccesary

What was your whole entrance scene then - Masturbatory posturing?


Surely you must have a PoE?

Keyser’s AtE And shit is incredibly wolfy but makes me sad to lynch him

Creature on the other hand I still hold his tone has been towny but i’ve Liked his posts a lot less recently

I’ll be voting one of keyser/creature in 20 minutes

Stinks of opportunistic and very willing to execute the misslynch and keep the focus/pressure on us.... "yeah, they look so towny but, but, but, but yeah they also sound so scummy"


I.e their actions do not reflect their supposed reads.

To add to what you said, notice how he says his tone is 'towny' but he has 'liked his posts a lot less recently'

yes... his tone was towny, and i still thought that, but then some of the content of his posts started to ping me.

That definitely looks a bit suspicious. Why would he be willing to lynch someone who he thinks is 'towny' in tone?

due to getting wagonomics, reads off flip, getting a distraction to the rest of the tone that was sole focused on tunneling creature, and because people started to make me doubt my townread because i was the only person townreading creature other than keyser i think?
as i said above, reads change.

Btw Volxen, it’s hard to get a solid/genuine read on you if you’re poppping in and out every 5 pages.

NGL, right now I’m relying on Irrelephant’s meta defence on you to put you above null into green.

Need to see some natural conversation/interactions. I can see you’re thinking alot, but would prefer to see you think on your toes, instead of these longer posts (I’m sure you’d understand if I feared scum-you would have time to manufacture these posts).

you can make a read on the posts he makes, theres enough content in them.
i do agree natural interaction is a big part of reading, but still...

That's in large part my playstyle, though. Yes I do at times engage in real time interactions when I can, but a lot of the time I write fewer but lengthier posts as opposed to a lot of shorter posts. My playstyle is very different from someone like Creature for that reason. I know your only first-hand experience was with scum!me in Watcher Wanted, but I do the same thing in my town games. I've completed several newbie games as town, and you will see my posting style is largely the same across all of those games.

But is there anything in particular that is making it hard for you to read me?

i like posting in short burst too, although i can at times make big walls for catchup and/or reads, but i definitely agree that your style is walls, and i don't see a major problem with that? i was able to get enough out of your posts to make myself belive you are town, and while it might be stronger with more posts/natural interaction, its not a problem for me

[Eragon]

VOTE: Volxen

im good here

[Eragon]

@Eragon - I didn’t stop t/reading Rat because she was s/reading me. It’s actually the intensity/authenticity of her s/read which I actually t/read. Please don’t miss-rep me.

then what is this?

```Then LabRat said he was going to do a re-read...

*MAYBE HERE*

Then LabRat started her surprising late assault on me:```

[Eragon]

Moreover, yes, there’s nothing wrong with changing reads (I do it constantly), but you were holding both options open, to misslynch both of us (I suspect tactical opportunism)

Can’t get the bitter taste out my mouth after reading those 3 posts.

thing is, i was clear with my thoughts.

"i think hes probably town, but due to some of my doubts,i won't complain with a lynch"


and instead of focusing on the ones where i explained, you snipped the ones that were specifically

"im good with hammering either"
"voting keyser/creature 20 min"
instead of looking at the posts with explanation.

so i think its YOU who is mis-repping me here

[Eragon]

I was VT

can you explain what the fuck this was about though?

[Eragon]

dont mind me pondering the most important question of the universe...


TL;DR sorry i've been active, doing thingies soon

[Eragon]

I was VT

can you explain what the fuck this was about though?

I never lie about a role claim.

:Thonk_Glare:

Ughhhh Tw might not be town

Talk to me Relly
I'm gluing this town so I really can't afford your read on me to waver. sorry.

Plus if your reasons are as bad as DrJ"s we should deffo air them

wdym by "gluing this town" and why as town, would you not want people to try to stop people from trying to solve the game, including you?

and the deflection on both reads by saying "if your reasons are as bad as Doc J's..."

scumteam and rarely has two scum (though if I were scum here I’d try my best to make that happen) so if I can find a solid town out of those three I *might* prefer that over volxen

I probably agree but Labby is always the solid town outta these 3. regardless... volxen is like hard town and is always a good heaven candidate

DrJ is subject to current inquisition because they've done a couple of little gross cheeky things I'm wondering if they thought they could get away with.

what are the "gross cheeky things"

I'm fine lynching creature/eragon

No comments on Eragon so far today...?

Relly I'm having a moment of mania

how about we send Keyser to heaven

???
why?

Does anyone have any of these players in their PoE/bottom 3 reads:

Dr J
Irrellphant
LabRat
Volxen

bottom three...
maybe?
i think irrel and lab are both towards the bottom

That’s why I said DrJ or LabRat. That’s more interesting in terms of associations, my mixed feelings on them throughout their game (currently both town).

A meta-town read on Volxen’s 20 or so posts tells us nothing. We’re just banking on Relly and you... where Ausuka is challenging that meta now.

I wouldn't be against sending one of Doc J/Lab (IMO doc)

Why did Eragon pick Volxen???

because i think they are town

and anyways, volxens 20 posts has a ton of words and stuff, like their 20 posts = 50 normal posts.

Please could you tell me why Volxen is town (EXCLUDING meta reasons).

read my case 0.0

what about Era/llephant?

Erallephant?

Still don’t trust Irrelphant (and don’t like you both nearly had the exact reads yesterday) but still a player we can work with.

Not t/reading Eragon - if town they need to find scum outside of Ausuka/DR J/LabRat IMO

except... thats not my PoE?
i think doc J is town...
i have mixed signals on Lab
Ausuka i need to read
i still am thinking irrel scum
im less sure on TW being town
Im thinking you might be scum

ah, is it just me or has labrat literally not posted since day start?
yep, no posts since nov 15
that coupled with lack of voting, wait a minute, let me check

*sing*
Life is a thing
*end sing*

yeah, apart from his early RVS votes and a push on tw, he unvoted in 347, then didn't vote again till he voted on keyser in 954.

I want to lynch him today. I still don’t like his interactions with Creature and the way he was going about TW the whole game was just weird imo.

he made a good case on keyser (i.e. a strong case - not a typical scum weak push) in that post though

I'm confused

his voting pattern is scummy, but I'm tring what he posts when he does post

people can have weird voting patterns as town too...

Relly I'm having a moment of mania

how about we send Keyser to heaven

I'm not Irrele but sure, let's do it.

VOTE: Keyser Söze

why?
actually i think you answered this because i already asked this about a different post.
but still...
why?

Relly I'm having a moment of mania

how about we send Keyser to heaven

i had this thought tbh

Why is labrat the new wagon

he isn't the new wagon???

[Eragon]

dont mind me pondering the most important question of the universe...


TL;DR sorry i've been active, doing thingies soon

How do you feel about sending Dr. J to Heaven?

happy with it.

as long as they get their catch-up done and leave their mark on this game and feel confident leaving it, i think they are def town

[Eragon]

Something is up if a player is being white knighted for saying "there is one scum in player a, b, c, d, e, f" in a 9 player game x

[Eragon]

dont mind me pondering the most important question of the universe...


TL;DR sorry i've been active, doing thingies soon

btw the question in question is...

Spoiler: be prepared for the depth of the importance

Is... The Worst... actually... A DUCK?????

[Eragon]

Spoiler:

Hi

I dreamed we quicklynched Labby and she was town

jsyk

dayum boi you even dream about FM.
duck confirmed.

I guess that dream also had her owning up to to being a mastina alt so... grain of salt

duck confirmed.

I'm absolutely happy with Keyser. I'm townreading him at the moment and more so than tw or lab. Volxen... I'm not sending someone to heaven based on meta. I'd rather send a townread to heaven

VOTE: Keyser


As for the rest, by POE scum must be among them though I am not discounting my possible townreads, tw and labrat, I'm a bit shaken in those by scummy things I've seen

i think volxen is town outside of meta

mmmkay I think we look at wagons very differently. it wasn't really clear why you thought I was ever scum off wagonomics

American Presidents squad can probably back me up, vca on scum!me is a mess

thinking about Keyser but still kinda uncomfortable with him being the heaven 1 pick. if anyone actually objects to Labby please lmk?

no strong objections to solving lab, but i kinda object to sending them to heaven without being confident in their role.

actually fair point. Labby should probably be a part of sorting you.

Somehow I've gone from having tonnes of townreads to paranoid scumreading nearly everyone.

FEEL MY PAIN
my only good townreads are doc J and Volxen

While Irrelephant is away, let's talk about him
Mean things only

he's irrelevant

While Irrelephant is away, let's talk about him
Mean things only

his trunk is weirdddd

who's like
just town here?

No one is Nauci-town this game.
Even a slot like me is in contention for heaven on D2!

ye I agree
I'm disappointed in myself for how d1 went down but I still feel like the most obvious town here. Still, I don't want to go to heaven (Creature correctly identified that my reads aren't good enough to win the game from there)

who are the wolves on wagon tho

btw if this plays like last time, the town that were sent to heaven could talk after death, either
1) full-time
2) once judgement day occurs, which is effectively a full phase i think.

LabRat off it

didn't you townread them???

Not anymore.

I'd prefer Dr J over myself too.

all happy-do Doc J

Eragon's post has got me thinking... Scum would be more bothered about associations/looking suspicious/being scared of being scum read.

Perhaps my interpretation of LabRat is completely wrong.




Question: why doesn't Eragon have more town credit right now? They apparently shared a 10,000 word thesis on why Creature was town when they entered the thread...?) Eragon was also off-wagon..? Asking these questions to myself right now...

tbf i wasn't on any wagon

Dr J
Keyser
Volxen

Eragon
Ausuka

Irrelephant
TW
LabRat

is this order to heaven or townreads?
if townreads, uhhh
why is doc J higher than you?

Dr J
Keyser
Volxen

Eragon
Ausuka

Irrelephant
TW
LabRat

What I'm trying to determine is how many scum were on Creature's wagon. As I said before I definitely don't think there were zero scum on Creature's wagon, but I also think it's unlikely that all three scum were on his wagon. I'm torn between there being one or two scum on Creature's wagon, but I definitely feel like I really need to look at Eragon's slot. I was previously pretty skeptical of his Creature townread (I didn't understand how he came to his conclusions about Creature), but now that Creature has flipped town it's more plausible that Eragon simply picked up on town pings from Creature that most of us missed.

Keyser, are you saying here you suspect the scumteam is Irrelephant/TW/Labrat?

ftr i think i put a TL;Dr at the end of the case, and it was mostly a few towny pings that i felt were town, but not like... amazing?
you feel?

Dr J
Keyser
Volxen

Eragon
Ausuka

Irrelephant
TW
LabRat

What I'm trying to determine is how many scum were on Creature's wagon. As I said before I definitely don't think there were zero scum on Creature's wagon, but I also think it's unlikely that all three scum were on his wagon. I'm torn between there being one or two scum on Creature's wagon, but I definitely feel like I really need to look at Eragon's slot. I was previously pretty skeptical of his Creature townread (I didn't understand how he came to his conclusions about Creature), but now that Creature has flipped town it's more plausible that Eragon simply picked up on town pings from Creature that most of us missed.

Keyser, are you saying here you suspect the scumteam is Irrelephant/TW/Labrat?

Yes, been sitting on this theory since D1, but TW's/Irrelphants/LabRats D2 posts just confirmed it in my head.

I'll explain it D3.

can you at least give a short summary?

Dr J
Keyser
Volxen

Eragon
Ausuka

Irrelephant
TW
LabRat

What I'm trying to determine is how many scum were on Creature's wagon. As I said before I definitely don't think there were zero scum on Creature's wagon, but I also think it's unlikely that all three scum were on his wagon. I'm torn between there being one or two scum on Creature's wagon, but I definitely feel like I really need to look at Eragon's slot. I was previously pretty skeptical of his Creature townread (I didn't understand how he came to his conclusions about Creature), but now that Creature has flipped town it's more plausible that Eragon simply picked up on town pings from Creature that most of us missed.

Keyser, are you saying here you suspect the scumteam is Irrelephant/TW/Labrat?

Yes, been sitting on this theory since D1, but TW's/Irrelphants/LabRats D2 posts just confirmed it in my head.

I'll explain it D3.

So you would be OK with also sending Eragon to Heaven today then? At the moment I'm leaning towards sending Dr. J or Eragon to Heaven.

as long as Doc J is fine with it, i prefer to send them, at least until i feel good about the game

Yes, Dr J firm favourite.
Eragon after you, but yes, Eragon deserves to go to heaven (they should have just followed their reads D1 and not be misled by 'the mob').

FEEEEEEL MY AGOOOOOONY

Yes, Dr J firm favourite.
Eragon after you, but yes, Eragon deserves to go to heaven (they should have just followed their reads D1 and not be misled by 'the mob').

Alright then, I'm OK with sending Dr. J to Heaven. He was the first person I townread on day one, and the fact that he townreads you makes me feel better about your slot.

VOTE: Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde

yeet

What's been going on is alot of distancing/anti distancing attempts, chainlinking players with their scum teammates, scumslips, forced town reads, discrediting and false bravado.

One thing that has concerned about me TW and Irrelephant, actually, is how easily and quickly they came to townread me this game. I am town, but in the one game where TW and I were town together (Newbie 1888), he was

extremely

critical of my slot and it took him a long time to come to around to townreading me, after heavily scumreading me first. And likewise, in the one game where Irrelephant and I were town together (Newbie 1894), it took a while for Irrelephant to townread me as well, and he definitely considered the possibility of me being scum in that game. In this game, they both quite quickly and easily came to the conclusion that I am town based on meta reasons, which is somewhat odd considering they both have quite critically scrutinized my slot in our previous games together.

Whereas with Eragon, he came to townread me pretty quickly as well, but he gave very detailed reasons as to why and it was based entirely on this game rather than meta reasons.

but would BOTH scum of Irrel/TW(lets assume for a moment) strong townread you solely based on meta if you are town?
is it worth THAT much to have one town pocketed?

Yes, forced TMI town reads.

Plus, you town read them both... until now(?)

whose reads were forced and/or TMI?

Yes, forced TMI town reads.

Plus, you town read them both... until now(?)

I'm still townreading Dr. J, and he townreads you, so that makes you at least a townlean for me, and I feel a lot better about your slot compared to day one. And I'm pretty sure Eragon is town, his townread of both me and Creature feels genuine as opposed to manufactured.

{Dr. J, Keyser, Eragon} is my town pile for the time being.

why does Doc J's townread on keyser effect your read on keyser?

Eragon, you responded and reacted correctly.

responded to what?

[Eragon]

Going to heaven is fine by me


Korina has a real life emergency apparently... I'd expect him back in about 24h

I suppose thats the benefit of hydraing, your partner can play on...


I'm not sure I agree with those three. I read labrat as the most town, followed by tw. Irrel, kind of null, I haven't seen much either way tbh.

I definitely agree that I don't see why eragon is town here.

My strongest TR would be keyser though

hope Korina does well :3

side note: korina needs to post their wall before we put them to heaven

[Eragon]

I'm kinda bored of being talked around.

I'm the self appointed town leader

because I'm clearly town and broke my scumrange more than once yday--whether or not my reads are good no one has denied this or tried to speak against it.

If you think my reads are bad talk to me about it. You know my play well enough to know fluctuating WIM doesn't = scum!ducky.

i think i see the problem

[Eragon]

Eragon's post has got me thinking... Scum would be more bothered about associations/looking suspicious/being scared of being scum read.

Perhaps my interpretation of LabRat is completely wrong.




Question: why doesn't Eragon have more town credit right now? They apparently shared a 10,000 word thesis on why Creature was town when they entered the thread...?) Eragon was also off-wagon..? Asking these questions to myself right now...

Buddying exists and the second argument is wifom
I'm not sure this is ai

Maybe slihghty ai towards scum, as if he knew creature would flip town

(another assume for a moment S!me and T!creature)

First off, it wouldn't be buddying.
second, what reason does Scum!me have for going against the flow right when i enter and bringing attention to myself as the only person that TR creature(other than keyser)
you might say pocketing, and while yes, thats a possiblity, creature was not having much of an impact on the game reads-wise, so the fact you think i would "pocket" creature, while bringing everyone else's attention to myself, is ???

[Eragon]

Eragon's case on Creature I'm pretty sure is wolfy. I need to revisit it

but he had absolute conviction that Creature was town

and didn't even blink to question his read. He also failed to engage with my scumcase or any contrary evidence. It was informed.

how the fuck are you still saying this.

I repeated OVER AND OVER AND OVER that i could see my case being wrong, but my gut was telling me creature was town based on what i saw from his posts.

And i did respond to your case, and contrary evidence, as you TOLD me to go respond to your case(or smth) and I responded to volxen's case on my case,

And i did question my read, especially towards EoD due to peer pressure

[Eragon]

conclusion: So, i saw a lot of posts that gave me towny pings and i felt the tone was towny, but i also read a few that just made me go "WTF???" so i don't think i can consider this strong town, but i definitely have a townread here

is this fucking absolute conviction?

[snip keyser stuff]

creature is infamous from the old days for freezing up and zero posting / replacing out as scum.

which he hasnt frozen up right? hes had 155 posts and is one of the highest posters?

his scumgame has developped a lot (refer Heroes Wanted) but he is not a strong force.

again, hes not posting many reads but hes active

he struggles with posting regularly, sorting players, displaying faked nuanced reads and expressing questions in a tangible fashion.

ok this i can see, while he has been regularaly posting, he hasnt really sorted MANY players, and i actually LIKE the fact that he doesn't fake reads, and thats what gives me the townread(or one of the reasons

as scum he also struggles with answering simple questions and providing reads when asked under pressure.

he has given a few reads, and i feel a lot of what he's posted, as well as feeling scum would just bullshit a read or two to answer it instead of taking fire

as town he is very comfortable with his living ITT thing but he's also very rarely unable to handle real time interactions.

but he has done real-time interactions

he does regularly talk about game-related stuff, sure he often doesn't have highly nuanced reads but his reads are at least SOMEWHAT reasoned and usually better than level-0 town, and he is very capable of asking questions and engaging with players. he is also capable of at least pretending to pressure players as town. current scum!Creature meta is basically teasing players with what he thinks is a semblance of his towngame, but in reality I actually think it's easy to sort. Just not as easy as it used to be.

the rest of this is all understandable

Appendix I: things i wish i townread
long name: a generous showing of his entire game related ISO and why it is obvscum bullshit

Spoiler: 9 posts of a 98 post iso

Mafia Role PM

You are a

Goon

(aligned with the town).

Your teammates are: […]
You can talk to them at any time on the mafia chat. [Link]

Each phase you may vote a player in order to send them to Heaven or Hell.

You win when majority of the Mafia is sent to Heaven.
You lose when majority of the Mafia is sent to Hell.

[link] to the game thread.

[/spoiler snipped]

btw

@manatee

, just noticed that you put "aligned with the

town

" in the example mafia role-card

lmao

you can be town

this is unexplained shit but for the sake of the exercise let's pretend it's a real read

{lab}
{null}

What if the team is {Lab, Creature, TW}?

-Kor (to both)

You're probably only right on TW.

i'm someone who has correctly nailed him as scum more than once and who he works well with as town
i had almost zero posted

there is absolutely no chance he's itt lolscumreading me this early and doing nothing about it. but let's pretend he is.

{lab}
{null}
{tw}

(I have good feels so far: not in terms of current tangible reads, but I think nearly everyone who’s been posting will be easier to sort down the line.

Well except for Carmen’s single post

).

Which I read town for some reason

ok then,,,???

{lab, carmen}
{null}
{tw}

Me same level as creature?

Yeah, you're probably below

why when how what who what how when
{lab, carmen}
{null}
{tw, keyser???}

Also if I was scum I'd be more willing to give townreads. I'm rn struggling to get decent reads.

My first thought is I caught scum!tw from Presidents but my second thought is that I could maybe come around
Oh and creature, talk to me more on that slot @tw

He did enough for me to hesitate on

ooook

{lab, carmen}
{tw?}
{null}
{keyser?}

Join us on Keyser?

What? Why?

{lab, carmen}
{tw?}
{null}
{keyser?}


this is a viable wagon option which i've been pushing as a viable wagon option for ages
creature has implied he doesn't townread you and has a free vote

his hesitation is never town indicative, is scum indicative and is very very slightly partner indicative

because he rolled scum but not with you?

I think you indicated having a scumread on him too earlier

Him saying he didn't roll scum with you.

Yeah.

{lab, carmen}
{tw?}
{null}
{keyser?}

still not voting

as a caveat he spent this entire conversation avoiding engaging with me about any reads or the current state of the game

this didn't real feel very effective, and seemed like a lot of assumptions IMO.

Appendix II: scum indicators
posts spent applying incorrect self-meta, ridiculing others' scumreads without engagement, explicitly squirming and avoiding producing content, including posts in response to being actively pressed to produce content and displaying a wish for real time interactions while actively squirming in real time interactions

i will not be commenting on these because the appendix name makes my commentary fairly obvious

Spoiler: 35 posts of 98 post iso

Also, where the hell is Creature? I just realized that he's in the game trying to see who we haven't heard from.
If Creature keeps up this activity, I think its very safe to assume that he is scum.

-Kor

You've been in that game where I've been humilatingly called low-threat.

also I don't zeropost intentionally for too long as scum

That's weird, I've just been handed a note:

"I WILL BE LURKING FOR THE REST OF DAY 1. F**K META!"

- C R E A T U R E

is it a joke, or what? I don't get it

Sorry my bad joke - I was amused by the

'if Creature lurks he's scum'

post

Town!me could easily say that.

Sometimes I have a good reason to lurk

oh fun, I didn't know I was interacting with an alt
I probably will never guess who you are because I always guess alts wrong, so enjoy knowing me while I don't know you!

It wasn't obvious it was an alt?

I'm gonna aim for the long game.

Find one scum per hell phase
One town per heaven phase

Also I'd probably rave a lot during RVS like I did when I entered this thread.

Goons aligned with the town seems funny. I wouldn't notice it myself though.

Also if I was scum I'd be more willing to give townreads. I'm rn struggling to get decent reads.

actually
VOTE: Creature

lynch this today for 11/10 guaranteed scumflip

Oh cool, you've become sheepsaysmeep 2.0

if Lab/Keyser are town they can prove it

So can I

tbh I'm more ready to send players to heaven than scum to hell.

we actually just hydra'd in a game, maybe i've learned more from him than i realised?

Learned to misread me like three games a row from him?

do it I dare you!

Are they doing it now?

tbh if I did it rn it simply wouldn't be natural

In short:

most likely: SvS
second most likely: town!labby / scum!Keyser
then: scum!labby / town!keyser
probably never: TvT

You'll be a great scientist.

His saying that he doesn't do this or that as scum when its stuff he's doing it looks extremely scummy.

Never heard of this scumtell.

Like, do you expect scum to go "hey i don't post as scum" "i am posting, thus is am town"?

Give me one flipped scum then

This game seems filled with players that are a pain to read.

Join us on Keyser?

What? Why?

I think you indicated having a scumread on him too earlier

Him saying he didn't roll scum with you.

Yeah.

Creature man why can't you just bus like a normal cheeky scumfuck? You're making this too obvious

idk though, I have about 37,5% to be right and I'm not sure this is worth the risk.

Like, do you expect scum to go "hey i don't post as scum" "i am posting, thus is am town"?

Exactly.

Oh, so you used to play mafia where scum automatically make themselves the most distinct possible from textbook (meh I forgot what was the term) townplay?

Oh yeah, that game where I was afraid to post anything, had to come up with something to satisfy town (including returning to page 1 and pretending to be "catching up") and faking complete ignorance about the setup (hence why I didn't talk about it even when the Math thing was obviously scum).

It's like normal for me to have a low content:spam ratio.

Specially in a game with a low number of players and even lower number of readable players and even lower number of interesting posts to comment on.

I feel like I need to act edgy to get something out of this.

yeah but normally your ISO feels like you give a fuck about solving the game

I usually value realtime interactions first.

I don't feel like calling someone town or scum when it's basically gun-to-my-head.

I don't feel like calling someone town or scum when it's basically gun-to-my-head.

If you feel like you're too heavily under pressure here step back. Neither me nor DrJ are getting anything from talking in circles with you. Go back and solve this sucker and give us something wild.

Nah, I want to see who will hop into this thread.

yeah but normally your ISO feels like you give a fuck about solving the game

I usually value realtime interactions first.

Why are these real time interactions so wolfy then?

because you're too impatient and want my reads immediatelly.

ok so you want real time interactions but won't use the real-time interactions to solve rather than spamming incorrect self-defence meta which has been countered ane you've ignored but also won't eject yourself from the conversation to take a back seat and some independent solving because you want real time interactions with.... someone else? who's on your mind?

Man, I realtime interact the way I want.

Oh, I'll miss my hyperposting times.

Can you See the difference between that game and this game?

It's an old game, but whatever.

the majority of these are also NAI, one example being "sometimes i have good reason to lurk. i really dont see how you get a SR off that

the rest is fluffing which i'm happy enough to call NAI but i think in reality is probably faintly scum scented given his overall iso

want me to compare the above to the game you linked? i'm actually in absolute awe you're not even pretending to see the differences

sorry the bold is hard to read, but i didnt want to use colors incase i got in trouble o.0

is this not responding to your case?

Hm I disliked the start but have liked more lately. Funny.

mostly tone/incentive

like i felt early game he felt natural and consistent to himself, but later game started to feel a bit more ehhh

is this absolute conviction

viewtopic.php?p=10547758#p10547758

Comparing my iso stance to yours how do you feel? just curious, I'm starting to wonder if I'm being wrong and Creature is actually willing to be bad town to fix his lopsided meta so genuinely wanna engage w someone about this

I like your reaction post.

tbf i feel the same way

I've never played with creature here, and only shortly on MU(which annoys me, so i don't remember much) so im not too sure about the "Creature" meta, thus i went more on tone and how i felt about their posts as a whole than their meta

i can be wrong, definitely, having replaced in and all that yada yada, but my read is town

is this absolute conviction or not questioning my read?

Spoiler:

do you mean "what does eragon faking a read look like?"?

pedit: ok
keyser are you scum

what do you hope to gain by asking this question?

I don't remember eragon faking a towncase
I remember him faking a scumcase on ausuka

i can fake any case as scum if i want to

If i might do some horrid self-meta to clear things up,i find that as scum i have set parameters in what i want people to look like with my read on them, so i'll focus on making them look like town or making them look like scum as it would be. As town its more "solvey-ish" and trying to figure it out through the case,

[removed spoiler here]

First 10 posts-
-I dont see anything AI, mostly memes/not really content posts

Cool I almost posted in a game that ended months ago

Next 10 posts-i see a few things here
-196 the stuff about replacing out seems like natural interaction? I don’t really know I just kinda like the tone from it
-200 this post gives me strong town pings, specifically saying “dont send me to heaven”

21-30
-202 *pats*
-204 you poor soul.
-218 I dont know where this read comes from? He hasn’t said anything about tw, and all of a sudden “oh hey your probably right on TW”
-219 makes my heart feel warm inside 0.0 but on a serious note It does seem weird, but why would scum say a single intro RvS post reads town? pocket?

31-40
-225 prove it. Insofar you can, this post is fine, but if you aren’t trying, this is probably LAMIST

41-50
-240 personally feel towny tone here, but I also think this is a stretch
-319 why are you bringing this up again?? And the “i wouldn’t notice it myself though” sounds like “oh hey I didn’t get a scum rc so I couldn’t see that”
-323 personally I abhor self-meta, but I know people do it on this site (?) so im in-between here. Reasoning is b/c if someone knows their meta enough to comment about it, can’t they manipulate it? like, creature says “i’d give town reads as scum”
> gives like, 1 townread.
“oh hey I cant be scum”
-329 do you have a response to their vote?

51-60
-330 then does it
-331 can you elaborate a bit more on “he did enough” and why you are hesistant?
-332 towny vibes
-338 I have no idea the context, but I feel towny ping he doesn’t want to do unnatural things.

61-70
-466 isn’t that what you did? (except for saying it outloud)

71-80
-471 town ping, scum would force reads out, town wants to make accurate reads
-479 was that an actual scum read?




81-90
502 do you feel you are doing that this game? And is it normal as all alignments?
504as above town ping, scum would try to force a read
511above

91-100
525 its all well and good to try to make reads the way you want, but its normally good to have some reads by that point of the game… I still like how you aren’t giving in to people forcing you to make reads, as I feel scum would, but I think its about time…
556 mostly calm reaction to the vote, but it also strikes me a bit odd
“ I dont care if you vote me just don’t Lynch me” feels like an indirect way of saying “why the fuck did you vote me”

101-110
558 this made me laugh
568 most people like it when you give reasons for town reads ;_;
please?
572 I dont know whats going on in this post

111-120
580 :3
582 *pat*
611 do it. I dare you.
612 I also want an explanation from lab

121-130
622 why des it matter if he’s an alt?
656 what do you mean? You think volxen is scum, or you think this puts us into judgement day? And if you think volxen is scum explain. And if you think everyone is town, explain.
657 I see that too, but why go pure shade instead of asking WHY rel is sleeping TW?
662 can you explain why you SR volxen?


131-141
666 speak of the devil, please don’t do this. Odd coincidence for the post numbers lmao.
671 so basically your read is he had a wolf pop-in. Got it. But what about the rest of his posts? scummy? Towny but not enough to counter-act, null?
681 IM HERE BISH AND YOU CANT STOP THIS
682 well, its also statisticly likely that at least 1 is scum, based on there being 4/9 players and 3/9 are scum…
684 when did you change the read?

142-155
-685 try to draw a conclusion yourself, as well as asking
-686 MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA
-687 again, you literally need to have worse reads than RNG(i’ve seen it happen) to not have one of these be scum
-688 do you truly believe this?
-691 I think you should
-693 so you don’t acknowledge the fact that you could be scum and people think you might be scum??????? Everyone that scum reads you, no matter what, your skeptical of?
-699 ok.

conclusion:

So, i saw a lot of posts that gave me towny pings and i felt the tone was towny, but i also read a few that just made me go "WTF???" so i don't think i can consider this strong town, but i definitely have a townread here

Alright, so you've done a fairly detailed ISO dive of Creature. And it also seems you not only believe that Creature is town, but he is your strongest townread. It seems like you came to that conclusion fairly easily, but if Creature is somehow obvious town, then several players (including myself) are missing it, so it's a bit concerning to me that he became your strongest townread so quickly and so easily. Especially because a lot of the things you listed as being townie for him could easily be faked by scum. For example:

i'll do this in blue do to large post and hard reading.
So, for you're first point, saying that creature is my strongest townread: No duh? he's the only person i've full on read this game. i don't think he's obvious town, i read his tone and some of his posts as towny, but not all, and i can definitely see some scum in there. I feel he's town, thats all. again "its concering that he became your strongest townread so quickly and easily" its not hard to be the strongest townread when theres only 1 thought through townread, now is it? ITs like saying I got first place in a one person tournament.

-196 the stuff about replacing out seems like natural interaction? I don’t really know I just kinda like the tone from it

Why is him asking Lefty whether he replaced out more likely to come from town!Creature than scum!Creature? I don't really see that as being AI at all.

Its not the comment itself, i felt the tone was slightly natural IMO, as clearly stated in my post.
"i dont know, i just kinda like the tone"
meaning its not the content thats ai, its my read on how his post read

-200 this post gives me strong town pings, specifically saying “dont send me to heaven”

Scum could do that just as well to try to make themselves look more towny, especially with his whole follow-up of "I don't plan to be sent to heaven early anyway. I'm more of an endgame guy." in post 382.

eh, agreed.

-319 why are you bringing this up again?? And the “i wouldn’t notice it myself though” sounds like “oh hey I didn’t get a scum rc so I couldn’t see that”

When Labrat brought up the typo about the mafia RC saying "aligned with town" in post 6, people were quick to point out that that may be more likely to come from scum than town (i.e., scum would be more likely to notice the typo), which may be a fair assessment. But why is Creature's response of "I wouldn't notice it myself though" townie? Couldn't that just be scum!Creature making a joke about it in jest?

This is a reason that i think Creature could be scum? did you think i was calling him town here? i felt it was kinda LAMIST actually.

-332 towny vibes

Why? In that post he says, "tbh I'm more ready to send players to heaven than scum to hell." Considering it's arguably a lot worse to send scum to heaven than it is to send a townie to hell, why does he get town points for that?

*shrug* i can see both sides of the coins, i actually misread this the opposite way, and i liked he was being consitent with "hard to get townreads right now" but re-reading it this way that is invalid.

-471 town ping, scum would force reads out, town wants to make accurate reads

Like volxen who just came here to fart and left

As in, you think DrJ and Volxen are both scum?

I expressed multiple times I scumread volxen.

Also DrJ didn't seem to do anything other than bugging me for inactivity when like the entire playerlist was inactive.

That might have been a fair point to make for Creature earlier in the game, but his read of me is either forced/faked (if he is scum) or incredibly lazy (if he is town). I asked TW legitimate questions about the Heroes Wanted game (since TW himself brought it up as his basis for meta reading Creature), and Creature responds by throwing shade at me saying I was "fart posting" by asking about the game. It came across like he was more interested in throwing shade at me rather than trying to accurately sort my slot.

i don't find "he came in to fart and then left" as a very shade-y post, but i give you if thats his only reason for Sr'ing you thats a bit odd.

Now if Creature is in-fact town, I agree with his assessment in post 682 that he probably didn't get up to L-1 without scum involvement, especially since a third of the playerlist is scum. And I am one of the people on his wagon, so it makes sense for town!Creature to be critical of my slot. But his wagon consisted of myself, Dr. J., The Worst, and Keyser. He has been throwing shade at me and Dr. J, but why is he not being critical of the rest of his wagon? He seems to be giving Keyser in particular an easy townread, as he seems convinced that Keyser is the only person on his wagon that is town. But he never explained why Keyser's joining of his wagon is more "genuine" than TW, Dr. J, or myself joining his wagon:

he hasn't explained a lot of things this game tbf, but i don't think he's being very critical of TW because i agree, i find TW pretty towny rn, and i also remember from quick skim Dr. J being pushy(which i figured out is NAI) and you not having a lot of posts, so i understand why he focuses on those 2.

Keyser feels like the most genuine atleast. The rest all have some scum equity.

Now I think there's very likely scum among {DrJ, the worst, volxen}

I could see any of them deciding to push me as scum.

Any why doesn't he consider the possibility that Keyser could be pushing him as scum as well? Why is Keyser the only person on his wagon that gets a free pass?

you are sort of contradicting yourself here, earlier you said "hes only being critical of Me and Doc J" but here it shows he thinks TW might be scum too. (i posted the above about not pushing TW based off of what you said and without reading on so im just keeping that their but you can ignore it if you want) and maybe because he thinks keyser is town??? i admit he hasn't explained it yet, and he should, but b/c he does townread keyser, why would he consider keyser is scum pushing him>?

I'm just not seeing anything in Creature's ISO or interactions that is strongly indicative of him being town. It really feels like you are giving Creature an incredibly easy townread.

maybe there isnt, maybe i am. i feel that he is town, its fine that people disagree. Its by no means a strong read, and i could see him flipping scum, i just don't think so if i was forced to give a read on the spot, i'd say town over scum.

So 724 seems to be how eragon formats any deep read he makes as either alignment (I remember learning this upon metadive to figure out his scumgame)
Umm his fake scumread of Ausuka in Watchmen Wanted consisted mostly of "Can't explain this??" and "one interpretation of this post would be ____, and that's the one I pick"
doesn't focus much on trajectory so much as isolated moments

...that's all I got, it's kinda hard to pick out what makes a fake read fake, plus at the time I believed his reads mostly

Ye pretty much.

yea I think his creature case is more consistent with how town eragon forms reads but the actual content is like... babby no....

@volxy good post gimme a sec.

why do you think the content is bad? simply cuz you disagree?

actually Era needs to respond to your post, me throwing my weight around would be a waste of time. plus I only weigh as much as a witch

^_^ ofc i'll respond.
also, im fine with you pushing the read too, it helps me iron the kinks out of my case(like the things volxen pointed out different interpretations for), and every little bit counts you fluffy little featherweight

In your opinion, does scum-Creature saying I’m the only “genuine” mofo, good or bad in terms of associations with him?

why do you even need to ask this??

about as neutral as it should be I think

So he’s just WIFOM shooting... shouting names for null fun...?

Including his scum read of Volxen + Dr J (two of the most loved slots this game)?

My brain aches because I think having nonsense reads which go against the grain is >rand town but citing meta and calling people bad when you're asked to explain them is >rand wolf (refer: my scumgame)

if he is indeed scum yeah he just yells random names. there isn't a discerbable rhyme or reason to whether or not he would treat a scumbuddy or a townie the way he's treating you I don't think

I can re dive Heroes Wanted or smth to see if it might spew you but his meta is in a state of aggressive flux so like, I don't want to

“

Yells random names

”
Good, just protecting myself incase he does flip mafia

I just thought to myself, in that scenario, he may be trying to shade two of the most established universal town reads by instilling paranoia in our minds... then link me to himself via an unexplained town read!

Good thing he isn’t scum though right!

this post strikes me as really weird, like "protecting myself incase he does flip mafia" why would town post this, or why would town plan on needing to protect themselves if their townread flipped scum??
and "good thing he isnt scum though right!" feels forced and OTT, and doesn't really fit with the rest of the post.

In your opinion, does scum-Creature saying I’m the only “genuine” mofo, good or bad in terms of associations with him?

If I may answer that as well, in my opinion its scum buddying town, given I see no reason from his perspective to see why you should be genuine. I have difficulty reading you tbh but I'd... tenatively mark you as slight town, and this goes to confirm that.

I've felt tw to be town, however, I do have a thought that he could also be scum with creature given it would be natural for him to bus his scum partner. I'm fairly confident he isn't esp as I don't think scum would be a second vote on a wagon on their partner, but I'll want to revisit that to see what other interactions there are there.

"given i see no reason from his perspective"
well i see the problem already
you can't see from his perspective
ya'll are different people with different thoughts and you can't mindread through a computer screen

why are you townreading keyser based off the thought creature is scum pocketing keyser before any flips?

lol @tw bussing that hard D1 in this setup

I don't think I can scumcase a buddy as well as I cased creature, also fwiw I'm like insanely burned out on bussing so w/e take that how you will

Rel can probably back up from that one newbie game I would rather fight uphill than bus atm, also suss open 730 or whichever one was grey flag by the awesone rurururu

i agree

@Keyser, do you think Creature is perhaps pocketing/buddying you? Does his townread of you feel "genuine"?

well if he felt like he was pocketed wouldn't that make his reads different???

He’s probably pocketed me in the sense I empathasized with his frustration yesterday (his appeal to emotion, regardless of alignment) made me want to take a step back. When you’re in the same boat as someone you can’t just help but feel like brothers. If the shoe was on the other foot and I was L-1 i’m sure he would have

unvoted too!

hammered me probably

I was hoping he would expand on his t/read of me but I don’t think that’s his style.

But the thing why try pocket only me? I’m only one vote, who hasn’t got any serious credit or control right now, so it’s a wasted buddying attempt if anything. There are lots of more persuasive players out there willing to flip him today. Eragon wasn’t even directly buddied/pocketed.. he just jumped in there with a straight town read.

yep

is this "not responding to the other points"

[Eragon]

My point is that I don't think its AI or deserving of a strong town read not necessarily that I think thats what you were doing
Fair point though

[Eragon]

uhh have people counted votes?

[Eragon]

ok i think there are 3 votes

keyser, volxen, and tw.

meaning 3/8, meaning 1 left until majority amirite?

someone should unvote to make sure they can still post their catchup

[Eragon]

welp nvm then carry on

[Eragon]

[Eragon]

I'm just concerned kor is bullshitting (obviously) abt his 300k post catchup but like... We all know thqt

he's literally off the race of the planet tho poor kid so activity reads are moot af. I'm just curious he felt the need to make it up to compensate for his absence.

didn't he show us a picture??

[Eragon]

I am finally back, I just literally read through like 30+ pages in two hours.
I'll be working on my catchup... I had to split it into 8 posts in the hydra PT because 1) There's a smiley limit of 30, and 2) there's a character limit of 3 million, which I broke, by a lot.



I hate everything atm, however, expect a catchup sometime soon, if I don't die writing it.

-Kor

[Eragon]

Eragon my dear somehow you get even funnier when you're serious

Spoiler:

[Eragon]

yep that was 97.68% quotes

[Eragon]

im just seeing quotes 4 days?

[Eragon]

MY EYES

its like pouring hydrochloric acid directly onto my pupils without wearing anything protective

[Eragon]

As a side note this is probably one of my last games on MS that i’ll Join, but I will take PbR(play by request) so is there an MS discord that I could join?

[Eragon]

Spoiler:

I don’t like this late counter wagon to Volxen. We send Dr J unless someone strongly opposes / scum reads Dr J. Then, I’m all ears.



Volxen, would you prefer, (like me) to stay ‘in the game’ instead of in heaven? I want to send you to heaven in the 2nd heaven phase (if my reads are right).

is it really a counter-wagon with 1-2 votes???
plus we still have about half the game-day left

rel is the only one of those 3 i see as scum atm

Late distancing attempt eh?

late?

LabRat and TW probably...
I’ll case them individually in tomorrow’s hellphase.

Due to content.

I wish Irrelphant had double the posts for us to chew on.

hard agree with irrel

Time till end of heaven phase 1: 3 days, 22 hours, 39 minutes

i'm a rebel w/o a cause and we have enough time left for some fun

funnily enough, rel is the only one of those 3 i see as scum atm

@TW, are you trying to take me out of the game so I'm not around for the hell phase on day 3?

I think he probably wants to prevent a quickhammer and reverting to his other candidate.

we already figured you were only at L-2????
i dont see a quickhammer happening thats not obvious scum hammer

I think he probably wants to prevent a quickhammer and reverting to his other candidate.

I think he wants to lynch me or Eragon tomorrow.

Or bus Irrellephant if forced to.

*cracks knuckles*

...and as scum knew you were 100% town after you’d only made 4 posts, I’m happy with both of you too

first "you" = volxen?
both of you = Volxen & doc J?

can someone else please tell me they see how ridiculous this page is?

Tell me who is scum.

Stop discrediting / destroying good read development

Eragon and I should have appealed to human rights about your shutting down of good reads on D1.



Im the captain now.

REVOLT AGAINST THE ACADEMY.
HUMAN RIGHTS FOR MEMERS
WE DESERVE RIGHTS

i dont trust either of you enough to be capitan.

keyser is a wolf exactly 100% of the time, and you two are probably both town and should both feel bad for eating the bullshit he's laying down

nah. i certainly don't feel bad. i think you are both wolfy, its simply hard to figure out who is worse

rel is the only one of those 3 i see as scum atm

Late distancing attempt eh?

assigning motive to my posting is wolfy as hell. my read on rel is obvious and has always been obvious.
this is, if anything, a rel/keyser distancing attempt.

i'm never a wolf distancing from wolf!rel here.

how is that anywhere near a keyser/irrel distancing attempt?
and who is assigning motive to the posts now, HRM?

LabRat and TW probably...
I’ll case them individually in tomorrow’s hellphase.

Due to content.

I wish Irrelphant had double the posts for us to chew on.

:thionkng:

what about this is wolfy or thinking?
he is wishing irrel posted more, a sentiment i share, especially after playing with them in WW, where they were extremely transparantly towny

this is, if anything, a rel/keyser distancing attempt.

assigning motives

Time till end of heaven phase 1: 3 days, 22 hours, 39 minutes

i'm a rebel w/o a cause and we have enough time left for some fun

funnily enough, rel is the only one of those 3 i see as scum atm

@TW, are you trying to take me out of the game so I'm not around for the hell phase on day 3?

no, why should I?
again avoid assigning motive to other people's posts. when you tunnel me like this rather than asking me to explain my reasoning, you immediately lose the ability to force me to produce alignment indicative content in favour of trying to make me look slightly wolfier.

i think this is coming from town!you

soi beans... so keyser assigning motive is wolfy as fuck and 100% flips wolf, but for volxen you give them instruction?
i smell a rat, and no, its not labrat.

I think he probably wants to prevent a quickhammer and reverting to his other candidate.

i don't even understand what the reasoning is here
again refer assigning motive to other people's actions

a lot of the reasons you seem to ridicule me aren't things scum do fam

have you not assigned motive this game?

Think I know why TW wants Volxen in heaven.

Guess who Dr J town read...?:

I'm absolutely happy with Keyser. I'm townreading him at the moment and more so than tw or lab. Volxen... I'm not sending someone to heaven based on meta. I'd rather send a townread to heaven

VOTE: Keyser


As for the rest, by POE scum must be among them though I am not discounting my possible townreads, tw and labrat, I'm a bit shaken in those by scummy things I've seen

TW and Lab.

i'm not sure what this is even meant to mean

I think he probably wants to prevent a quickhammer and reverting to his other candidate.

I think he wants to lynch me or Eragon tomorrow.

Or bus Irrellephant if forced to.

:thinkggign:

unless it's literally {era, relly, keyser} i guess

pedit: cOmMoN sEnSe

can confirm its not.

keyser's literally just spewing out whatever he can think of that makes other slots look bad

it's very transparently not town motivated so i implore you all to stop reading effort as alignment but yeah i did appreciate your "huh?" response to his most irrelevant shade throw

and your posts are transparantly town motivated and not making other slots look bad?

@Dr J - you are more likely to take sides with TW/LabRat to lynch Eragon I beleive tomorrow.

I don’t think you share the same scum reads as me

:Thonk:
i believe he said he TR's me, at least slightly, and he has suspicion of TW?
am i wrong?

keyser's literally just spewing out whatever he can think of that makes other slots look bad

it's very transparently not town motivated so i implore you all to stop reading effort as alignment but yeah i did appreciate your "huh?" response to his most irrelevant shade throw

This is what you’ve been doing all game.

I will expose you tomorrow.

You want to protect your scum partners and misslynch town.

why not expose him today?

keyser: hey let's send people to heaven based on which wolfy slots they want to lynch tomorrow rather than their town equity

everyone: hey yeah that's a great plan!!! let's fuck up our chances of lynching scum AND send less-likely-town to heaven!!!

i.
dont really.
thank thats why.
Keyser is voting people
to go up to Heaven???????

[Eragon]

As a side note this is probably one of my last games on MS that i’ll Join, but I will take PbR(play by request) so is there an MS discord that I could join?

repeating

[Eragon]

keyser's literally just spewing out whatever he can think of that makes other slots look bad

it's very transparently not town motivated so i implore you all to stop reading effort as alignment but yeah i did appreciate your "huh?" response to his most irrelevant shade throw

This is what you’ve been doing all game.

I will expose you tomorrow.

You want to protect your scum partners and misslynch town.

i absolutely cannot wait for this throwdown pal, you're openwolfing and you are going down

spicy duckling

{tw}
{volxen}
{dr J}
{Labby}
{Ausuka}
{Eragon}
{Rel}
{keyser}

what
this might be an ok solve

I knew you and Relly would bus today once exposed

uhhh...
thats been. Rel's spot the entire game

which brings up a new question
why hasn't Rel changed for you?
im pretty sure they have always been 2nd or third scummiest, showing thought they are scum but no intent to lynch????

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why did you spend so much time on this

{tw}
{volxen}
{dr J}
{Labby}
{Ausuka}
{Eragon}
{Rel}
{keyser}

what
this might be an ok solve

I knew you and Relly would bus today once exposed

the fact you're sticking to this ridiculous narrative is just screaming that you have no interest in reading my slot
you've found your narrative and you think it's gonna win this game for you, so you're sticking to ti

isn't sticking to their narrative what happened in WW?

keyser: hey let's send people to heaven based on which wolfy slots they want to lynch tomorrow rather than their town equity

everyone: hey yeah that's a great plan!!! let's fuck up our chances of lynching scum AND send less-likely-town to heaven!!!

You haven’t been paying attention.

Dr J is the towniest player.

Volxen has only reached top town status today in my eyes.

Even Volxen should admit to this too. No way was he a town clear on S1.

*sad*
I thought volxen was clearly town EoD1 ;_;
but also i made an entire case that wasnt "meta" or super early game

{tw}
{volxen}
{dr J}
{Labby}
{Ausuka}
{Eragon}
{Rel}
{keyser}

what
this might be an ok solve

Why do you feel more confident about me being town than about Dr. J being town?

I feel I have a stronger grip of your playstyle than Dr. J's
I feel your contributions have got MORE town indicative whereas theirs were markedly stronger d1

it's a personal greater confidence townread

uhhh didn't you like, super heavily townread volxen Early D1??
so weren't their posts super town-indicative then too?

Keyser I felt was town, but that could change. I'd look at akusa, volx, and eragon. I'm not seeing why those latter two are being widely read as town. These resds are mostly poe. Akusa is just there because I don't actively townread him, he'd be the last I'd lynch. If the three scum aren't in that pool of 4 players, then tw is probably going to be scum. But I doubt it.


Keyser vs tw tomorrow will be a fun read

im not sure which one of you posted this, but i rememebr you(the account) saying i was town?
what changed?

also, you really need to look elsewhere for scum, conf!bias i am not scum, and Volxen never flips scum IMO, so thats at least 2/4 that aren't corrct
i could see both of Keyser/Ausuka flip scum, but not strongly feeling either, especially ausuka

keyser
soze
sweaty

i am voting for volxen because
1) they are my strongest townread
2) we have several days til phase end and i want your wolf ass to suffer
3) i think dr. j is more likely to lynch scum tomorrow
4) you are pushing dr. j's heaven hammer very hard and i don't think you're town
5) i enjoy changing my mind, pushing buttons and seeing how people react : ]

as for scum, look at that tiered read list you quoted several times while asking me who's scum

hes pushing the hammer??

Scratch thst, keyser vs tw is fun to watch now
*grabs popcorn

*grabs cookies*

{tw}
{volxen}
{dr J}
{Labby}
{Ausuka}

{Eragon}

{Rel}
{keyser}

what
this might be an ok solve

if i'm wrong on a wolfread it's era before you or rel
era has towntells as well as wolftells and it hUrTs My BrAiN
it's not you, i am right on you

if i'm wrong on a townread it's ausuka first (content suggests town and i like the way she entered the thread challenging me. but i believe in a pinch she potentially can fake this much (it'd be stronger wolfplay than mafia month but it's not impossible)). her lack of tangible analysis towards your slot is +partner indicative as well in spite of my townlean there.

there's a world where i'm wrong on labby but it's less likely than the world where i'm wrong on ausuka imo

what wolftells and/or towntells do i have?

i'm fine w that
it's mechanically correct for either of us, as wolves, to bus irrelephant given consensus reads and the fact that if we lynch correctly today nearly half the list tomorrow is scum so

do you mean mechanically incorrect?

[Eragon]

You tell Dr J why Eragon is scum, and i’ll tell Dr J why I think Eragon is town.

Deal?

We have 3 days.


Eragon can even chip in too.

Love triangle.

[Eragon]

Are we going to wait out the deadline here? I don't realistically see anyone besides Dr. J getting sent to Heaven, because he doesn't seem comfortable with sending me to Heaven.

obviously

Are we going to wait out the deadline here? I don't realistically see anyone besides Dr. J getting sent to Heaven, because he doesn't seem comfortable with sending me to Heaven.

ye a few things

i'd rather heaven you than Dr. J

we have valuable sorting time, and i'd say one of me or keyser should be hell'd tomorrow

yep.
tommorow is solve-the-fuck-outta-this-game day

If Irrelephant presented a scum case on TW today that’d be perfect too.

does irrel scumread TW?

Are we going to wait out the deadline here? I don't realistically see anyone besides Dr. J getting sent to Heaven, because he doesn't seem comfortable with sending me to Heaven.

You got that right - sorry: I'd rather not send someone I don't tr to heaven and potentially waste a lynch

All the same, imo we should wait a bit. Sorting time +1

@tw and keyser assuming I'm martyred, who should I vote for according to you on a judgement day?

i know i wasnt requested, but if you do flip town in heaven, and we lynch the town in TW/Keyser, that puts us at judgement day, so you should ALWAYS send the other one of the two.

Are we going to wait out the deadline here? I don't realistically see anyone besides Dr. J getting sent to Heaven, because he doesn't seem comfortable with sending me to Heaven.

You got that right - sorry: I'd rather not send someone I don't tr to heaven and potentially waste a lynch

All the same, imo we should wait a bit. Sorting time +1

@tw and keyser assuming I'm martyred, who should I vote for according to you on a judgement day?

If we get to a judgement day I would have replaced out by then, but good luck!

why?

[Eragon]

Why do you think Creature is scum, and why is he a better lynch than Rat?

He's avoiding producing content at all costs
He's approached this game in the opposite way to how town!Creature approaches games (which is a fallible read, but is a good start)

ergo I vote him and encourage others to do so, so that we can torture him for information!!! >: D

i just relaized this is the first time TW even does anything with volxen, except for first post about volxen being good at solving.

UNVOTE:
Meh, Duck’s posts got so much better. I don’t think I agree with them, but I really like their enthusiasm while talking about their TRs
Not overly townie, but I'm ok with it rn

And I’m not a fan of volxen’s read on me.
The arguments he uses feel underwhelming compared to how much time was he willing to waste writing it
read prob coming soon

why did you unvote me here if you don't think I'm town but are blindly sheeping others?
I'm clearly wagonable in this gamestate. Look at the VCs for D1.
Why didn't you vote volxen here? Can you show me which parts of it felt underwhelming, and why you think that's scum indicative?

then he asks why lab didnt vote volxen

there was some sort of quote thing here i have no idea where it went but this is volxen's post top

I don't feel comfortable giving TW a townread yet, no. I do think he made a good case against Rat, especially in post 297, and I do find Rat to have the most scum equity at the moment, but I'm not ready to write off TW as town yet either.

Where I am currently at is I find Dr. J to be the most towny player and Rat to be the most scummy player. I'm still kind of unsure on everyone else.

@Keyser, I am starting to get concerned that if Rat is scum, you could be one of her partners. As I pointed out earlier, it was just odd how quick she was to attack two different people for asking, in my opinion, completely legitimate questions about your slot. If she is scum it's possible that she is simply buddying/defending town!Keyser, but the way she wanted to shut down both questions about Keyser's slot could be indicative of SvS interactions. Keyser, if Rat is scum, why is TW more likely to be one of her partners than you?

But in any case, do you really think TW would gambit as scum and try to get his one of his scumbuddies sent to hell on day one? I would consider that quite a risky gambit because if he does that, then the only way he could win as scum is if both he and his remaining scumbuddy get sent to Heaven. So unless he's convinced that both he and his other scumbuddy could get a lot of towncredit for busing Rat, it seems like quite a risky play to open on day one by busing one of his partners in a game mode that, in my opinion, heavily discourages busing.[/quote]

and this is TW's post

This post is so so towny
god if I'm misreading volxen here I'm going to feel dumb as shit postgame[/quote]

aand then...

KABLAAAM

volxen is SO SO TOWNY AND IF HES SCUM I'LL FEEL STUPID

That’s just incredibly lazy

Labby what parts of this post do you think actually indicate that volxen is not aligned with the town?
I think you're just tunnelling his playstyle and think he should die for it. if you're town I need you to reassess this asap because you're aggressively driving us off a cliff by clogging the thread up with posts which don't actually advance any gamesolving

and is already WK'ing volxen by his 4th mention

this is honestly very TMI'y

and you wanna talk about confidence on reads?

TW pushes

ME

for having an

OVERCONFIDENT AND UNRELENTING

townread on

CREATURE

, when it was obvious that i was not

100% CONFIDENT NOR UNWILLING TO CHANGE

; and all the while

TW

has done

THIS

read of

VOLXEN

that is barely

THOUGHT THROUGH, QUICK,

and is already

WK'ING VOLXEN

[Eragon]

im feeling a tiny bit less sure on volxen now.

im 100% confident that TW either is reading a scumbuddy as strong town and WK'ing
TMI'ing Volxen town
or is making hasty reads that shouldn't be trusted as much

2/3 of these still mean that i feel volxen is town
but 1/3 of these mean that volxen could be a scumbuddy

[Eragon]

Can you see the picture yet Eragon?

what picture?

[Eragon]

tbh im not even sure if Scum!TW makes his townread and wk'ing so quick and obvious on one of his scumbuddies

[Eragon]

it could definitely be pocketing, but i see no towny motivation making that read

[Eragon]

no

this is one of the most interesting posts in the game and I think I like it
remind me to reread it later?

uhhh sure?

btw im confused where the "no" even came from cause i didnt post "no" that i can see lmao

[Eragon]

interesting

[Eragon]

WHO WANTS GUACAMOLE?

[Eragon]

Eragon, I need to town-case you.

Are there any posts in your ISO that you think I should pay extra attention to?


Yours sincerely, Capitan Keyser

all of them except the memes :3

and you can even talk about the memes if you want,

DONT LEAVE ANYTHING OUT!!!

EVERYTHING MUST BE READ

EVERYTHING

but legit, just read whatever you want/what is AI

[Eragon]

As a side note this is probably one of my last games on MS that i’ll Join, but I will take PbR(play by request) so is there an MS discord that I could join?

repeating

don't make me post sad cat pictures

[Eragon]

the time it took me to re-write the catchup and post it:
3+8=11 hours

I feel sick, never freaking again

hey it was an experimental subject

but holy damn mother of mass multi post cases.

HDMMMPC

[Eragon]

As a side note this is probably one of my last games on MS that i’ll Join, but I will take PbR(play by request) so is there an MS discord that I could join?

repeating

don't make me post sad cat pictures

[Eragon]

@Keyser, I think we should Eragon to Heaven on day 4, if you are OK with that. I think you and I should stick around to endgame.

lets get to D4 before we start thinking about what people we want to send bub

[Eragon]

Meaning I don't think Irrelephant is the sole scum on his wagon.

I'm not ruling out the possibility of scum!Irrelephant, but if he is scum then there were most likely multiple scum on Creature's wagon.

Can you elaborate on your read on irre?

do you not think irrel is scum?

[Eragon]

Question: why doesn't Eragon have more town credit right now? They apparently shared a 10,000 word thesis on why Creature was town when they entered the thread...?) Eragon was also off-wagon..? Asking these questions to myself right now...

a) The scums are bussing
b) Eragon isn’t scum
Actually, do you want to talk about eragon? That would be actually rather cool

feel... the cool

[Eragon]

Dr J

Keyser

Volxen

Eragon
Ausuka

Irrelephant

TW

LabRat

fixed

WhAt DoEs BlUe MeAn?

[Eragon]

Btw, I don’t really like that nearly every time I see a SR on eragon, the read is about his “confident”/”TMI” TR on creat.
People ignoring Eragon’s defense over and over feels kinda off. Seriously, how many times in a row is a person able to forget about that?
And how many people can be honestly doing that at the same time?

Idk if he’s just an easy push or the scums feel threatened and want to distance, but I’m not a fan of that

someone understands me ;_;


i no longer feel as lost and alone

but seriously, yes: everything TW brought up in that recent post whatever, i had already answered once or more lmao

[Eragon]

So @Mr. Rat,

are you townreading TW? if yes, do you completely hold by Tw/KEyser TvS?
and if yes, can you at least summarize parts of your case so i can understand?
im having a lot of doubts there.

but i am also doubting keyser, i thought he was pretty scummy when i joined, and for D1, and then towards now i've been liking him(that is, you, keyser) and now your case brings up other possiblities.

i think im confident enough calling TW/Keyser TvS, never SvS, and if they are both TvT i am fucking up somewhere, so i think thats good for me.

i definitely get your scumread on keyser, but why do you townread TW so much?

[Eragon]

WhAt DoEs BlUe MeAn?

Doesn't look like green does it...?

yes...


exactly...

thats why im asking

[Eragon]

okay actually a few thoughts before I go because the game isn't playable without all slots talking:

I still think tw is probably town, I just didn't feel good post-creature flip about his strong push there. But otoh the intensity of his push rang towny (not sure tw gets that intense against a friend just for a d1 mislynch), and imo creature was playing scummy anyway. Eh I still have bad feelings here, but the game makes more sense to me if he's town
Ausuka made some good points about volxen's play that, especially depending on who volxen is scum with, bring volxen back toward possible-scum, even though I still lean town for him too. Ausuka is also very bold if scum, challenging commonly held ideas.
Keyser/eragon always has a scum, possibly two. Keyser seems overeager to throw shade, eragon seem undereager to solve, both have strong scumgames and I wouldn't put it past them to manage to both be offwagon
I have literally no clue what to do with labrat because I've seen p much nothing from the slot d2 and only remember the keyser push from d1

Hot take: DrJ is the townie with the worst reads so far, which is why he is easy to wagon this game phase. Paranoid about the very popular push to Heaven them, but maybe scum are just looking to lynch townies in every phase idk.

Something like:
{me}
{the worst}
{volxen, ausuka, DrJ}
{labrat} - null
{keyser, eragon}

ausuka should maybe be a scumread, I haven't had time to analyze trajectory, just getting town from the bold play
I'm mentally on page 51, so do with this what you will

“Eragon seems under-eager to solve”

Let’s see.. shall we?

Who is the only person(other than maybe keyser?) That correctly read creature
Who actually MADE A CASE on volxen being town that’s not “Oh ThEiR fIrSt FiVe PoStS mAkE tHeM oBv ToWn On MeTa”
Who has been reconsidering reads
Who has 40 more posts than you and joined at the end of D1
Who has acually been in thread for the majority of time active?

So stop this bullshiting of yours


You call Ausuka either town or very bold scum for going against the trend?
WHAT ABOUT ME TOWNREADING CREATURE?
Do you have like, selective amnesia or some shit?

“Doc J is town with terrible reads”

Great doubtcastig you have there
Before you do crap like this actually make detailed reads of your own, or, you know, like actually make reads that aren’t sheeping TW and that you can explain yourself?



I think the only slot really not talking is you?

Lab has been very active
I’m here
Keyser is here
Ausuka is intermittent
Doc J is here
TW has presence
volxen has picked up a lot in d2

[Eragon]

it is wierd that lab voted a blue read instead of TW/Lab/Doc J

[Eragon]

but honestly i feel Labrat's case is pretty town motivated, thought out, etc...?

like, i am still trying to decide TW/Keyser, but i think Labrat @Keyser(that is to say, his case on keyser) while not necessarily scum!keyser indicative, i think it bodes well for lab

[Eragon]

Can we please call bullshit on all these TW top town reads...


Why don't Irrelephant and LabRat want to send TW to heaven today?

I don't believe those reads lists one bit. They're just tactically tiered. All bull shit.


I want both my top 2 town reads in heaven today.
I simply don't buy the sincerity of the read.

You do not vote your nullish/blue read to heaven. We send our fucking town reads.

Why is no one else calling out this bullshit?

"no one"

[Eragon]

uh what just happened?

im just gonna pretend that never happened.

kay?

[Eragon]

im akshully very confident in an Irrel!scum here.

on top of not liking their posts this game, from what i have seen...

they do not have the same form of transparant towni-ness that they were fond of in WW.
Like, did anyone ever even scumread them in WW?
they were extremly obvious through thoughts, reads, wagons, etc... and even from a scum perspective i knew that was always going to be town

this game i have seen almost absolutely none of that, im not sure if its b/c different perspectives or what, but i do not see any similarities, and dislike their posts not-meta based either

[Eragon]

If I put my scum read to a side.

Why aren’t we sending TW to heaven today?

because he needs to be sorted first

[Eragon]

[snip]

okay actually a few thoughts before I go because the game isn't playable without all slots talking:

I still think tw is probably town, I just didn't feel good post-creature flip about his strong push there. But otoh the intensity of his push rang towny (not sure tw gets that intense against a friend just for a d1 mislynch), and imo creature was playing scummy anyway. Eh I still have bad feelings here, but the game makes more sense to me if he's town
Ausuka made some good points about volxen's play that, especially depending on who volxen is scum with, bring volxen back toward possible-scum, even though I still lean town for him too. Ausuka is also very bold if scum, challenging commonly held ideas.
Keyser/eragon always has a scum, possibly two. Keyser seems overeager to throw shade, eragon seem undereager to solve, both have strong scumgames and I wouldn't put it past them to manage to both be offwagon
I have literally no clue what to do with labrat because I've seen p much nothing from the slot d2 and only remember the keyser push from d1

Hot take: DrJ is the townie with the worst reads so far, which is why he is easy to wagon this game phase. Paranoid about the very popular push to Heaven them, but maybe scum are just looking to lynch townies in every phase idk.

Something like:
{me}
{the worst}
{volxen, ausuka, DrJ}
{labrat} - null
{keyser, eragon}

ausuka should maybe be a scumread, I haven't had time to analyze trajectory, just getting town from the bold play
I'm mentally on page 51, so do with this what you will

“Eragon seems under-eager to solve”

Let’s see.. shall we?

Who is the only person(other than maybe keyser?) That correctly read creature

Who actually MADE A CASE on volxen being town that’s not “Oh ThEiR fIrSt FiVe PoStS mAkE tHeM oBv ToWn On MeTa”

Who has been reconsidering reads
Who has 40 more posts than you and joined at the end of D1
Who has acually been in thread for the majority of time active?

So stop this bullshiting of yours


You call Ausuka either town or very bold scum for going against the trend?
WHAT ABOUT ME TOWNREADING CREATURE?
Do you have like, selective amnesia or some shit?

“Doc J is town with terrible reads”

Great doubtcastig you have there
Before you do crap like this actually make detailed reads of your own, or, you know, like actually make reads that aren’t sheeping TW and that you can explain yourself?

I think the only slot really not talking is you?

Lab has been very active
I’m here
Keyser is here
Ausuka is intermittent
Doc J is here
TW has presence
volxen has picked up a lot in d2

Yeah, I'm the only one not present??? "Definitely scum!"

somehow you got that conclusion from that? either you are actually bad or you are pushing bullshit because you dont have any base on your push.

great reads, there, eragon. I'm impressed. You caught me: I sent out a storm warning on Thursday evening to the entire Western NY area so I could actively avoid going to work where I play Mafia on Friday, and months ago I began a long pattern of being v/la Saturday/Sunday so that you wouldn't catch me out this game.
This is level one surface level crap. You don't scumread me. You find me an easy and defenseless target (won't last long, sorry to say)

and again, AMAZING ABSOLUTELY PERFECT CONCLUSION ID GIVE YOU AN A++

Also ahhhh there's the "give me towncred for townreading Creature!!" I've been waiting for

says the person scumreading me for townreading creature.

im akshully very confident in an Irrel!scum here.

on top of not liking their posts this game, from what i have seen...

they do not have the same form of transparant towni-ness that they were fond of in WW.
Like, did anyone ever even scumread them in WW?
they were extremly obvious through thoughts, reads, wagons, etc... and even from a scum perspective i knew that was always going to be town

this game i have seen almost absolutely none of that, im not sure if its b/c different perspectives or what, but i do not see any similarities, and dislike their posts not-meta based either

I got a little paranoid of Relly in WW but for the most part ye I agree. He kinda has low enough content that sneaking in with a stance like the previous page works from either alignment. :/

1)WW is my best towngame ever, probably. I have a much harder time earning townreads as town most games, especially because for whatever reason scum often find me an easy target (they're wrong, which is why my town win rate remains high).
2) Literally no one was scumreading me until I went v/la anyway

I would like eragon to be the first to scumcase me. Fire away.

and WW was one of my best scum games ever, yet people compare that to me here too. your point?
uh im pretty sure plenty of people were scumreading you, i know i was.

[Eragon]

it is wierd that lab voted a blue read instead of TW/Lab/Doc J

11. Rickdaily12 OllyRenard- If this isn’t obvious town then Idk what is,

Especially with all his talk about heaven phases and stuff, I don’t think Scum would make those. Scum would try to push the obvious town, but also town leaders into heaven where they are worthless

Also this is another game theory question: as rick said earlier, if we accidentally put one scum into heaven, it's not the end of the world, so I'm wondering for someone like Lukundo, even if I personally SR him, if the majority of the game TR's someone, if we put him in heaven, and I disregard the risk from My POV

discuss?

Your posts from your previous purgatory game. You were scum there, so I guess I shouldn’t rely on it too much…
but you seemed to have the same attitude towards heaven-lynches when you replaced in here, so what changed your mind rn?

i didnt even think about that
its been hard enough for me to get townreads at all, ive just been trying to play the game sending town- heaven and scum to hell.

its probably actually a good idea to do this..

the third quote, about the risk, though, is something i disagree with this game.
because in that game there were 15 players, and 5 scum, meaning 3 scum had to be sent to heaven, or town < scum in numbers, for scum to win.
this game only 2 scum need to be sent to heaven, and there is a lot less lee-way.
we could be in judgement day by the EoD3 if we lynch all town.

so in this game i recommend pushing for your stronger townreads, but maybe not your strongest.
does that make sense?

[Eragon]

I find it insane that anyone is listening to your idea that "the scumteam is everyone voting volxen for Heaven"

Miss-rep of my frustration.

Eragon is voting Volxen I believe (?) but I don't think Eragon is scum.

yes i am, but im gonna change soon both because of what lab brought up and also because volxen asked me too

as a side note:

adding onto above

Pushing your middle townleans makes it that much easier for scum to push one of their own into heaven, because strong town is harder to come upon than middle town, so thats kinda the gray area where anything goes.
so if we do push a town lean, make sure thats its your OWN read, not influence by ANYONE else, even if you think that other person is town.
you can use parts of other people's thoughts, but make sure whatever you push is your own reads

[Eragon]

The lack of rejection from the rest of the thread makes me wanna not send Dr. J to heaven. I don't think he's a wolf but I think scum want him heaven'd

?

what about the volxen wagon being pushed...

by multiple people

or other vanity wagons on labrat/keyser etc.. that people have been pushing?

is that not people feeling that doc J isnt best heaven pick?

[Eragon]

Like.. who seriously is going to send LabRat to heaven today

honestly i think they are p.towny overall, so i wouldn't fight against it.

[Eragon]

Also @Eragon, please change your vote from me to Dr. J.

UNVOTE: Volxen

ill unvote for now and see where i leave off soon

[Eragon]

Also @Dr. J you should be able to guarantee that you are sent to Heaven by voting for yourself.

I take it you still don't want to go to heaven?

And to be sure, how do you feel about the wagon on yourself?

Well if the scumteam is TW/Irrelephant/Labrat, then it makes sense for all of them to prefer to send me to Heaven over you, since I've said that I think Keyser might be right about that being the scumteam. You on the other hand are still townreading TW and Labrat?

If there is one thing I feel absolutely sure about, it's that it's simply not possible for TW and Keyser to both be town. They are SvS before TvT, but I also think SvS is unlikely as well. Not with how hard they have been going at each other the whole time. And Keyser's treatment toward my slot (a lot of skepticism that gradually transitioned into a townread over time after a fair amount of real-time interactions) feels very natural and believable.

In my opinion, Keyser vs TW is what day 3 is all about, because they are not both town, and I am 99% certain they are TvS.

im unsure on lab being scum, but i definitely see irrel and could see TW, especially if keyser is town

[Eragon]

fwiw I'm still working on my eragon case because his posts are

like incredibly (intentionally??) hard to quote

but it won't matter till hell phase anyway. I don't think you need to look further than his response to me like three pages ago, where he tried to get

towncred for townreading Creature

and

for activity, when activity is 0% AI for him

(it's not AI for most of this playerlist, come to think of it) and he spent eod2 and the

first half of D2 trying to convince us all his townread on creature was actually very weak and it *couldn't be TMI* because his read wasn't very strong and he *could have been wrong*

from irrelephant

the actually fuck is this? if this ever comes from town ill fill my socks with cat hair, stuff it in my mouth, and swallow it full

i wasnt "going for towncred" as you say. This was what i said "Who was the one who actually had a correct read on creature"
NOT.

"Oh hey dudes i am obvious town because i read Creature right oh im so amazing"

and its a lot of me just getting pissed off because
1. i felt pressured into not really townreading creature due to mass super-majority.
2. people are actually scumreading me because i thought creature was town.
like, what even is that bullshit?

I never said anything about activity being AI, so either you are hella misunderstanding all this, or you are pushing it because you have nothing else. i dont think town!you would misunderstand something that badly however.

Maybe because that was obviously stated multiple times in my posts, in my reads, and multiple times, yet people still missed the posts and still pushed me over it even though i said in my read itself it was extermely strong, but it was my first true townread

colors dont mean anything i just felt it made it easier to pinpoint stuff

[Eragon]

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[Eragon]

why am I townreading like everyone

Are you town reading me, Ausuka and Eragon?



Nah, didn’t think so.

I go through phases of tring all 3 of you

sorry to do this but

v/la like 48 hours

while this fever passes
can't really say I'll post at all and if I do it's going to be as lacking as it has been

feel better soon devilicious demon ducky

[Eragon]

{volxen, Doc J}
{Lab, Ausuka, Keyser/TW}
{keyser/tw}
{irrel}

IMO here, irrel is always scum
one of keyser/TW is always scum
and then unless someone enlightened appears and changes something, one scum in Lab/Ausuka

i feel confident in the reads for Irrel/{keyser/TW}, but its the other scum that i feel is having a truly towny and good game, and the hardest to find.
ive already cased volxen, so i doubt that
Doc J just oozes towniness, and their catchu[p, while really onyl quotes(?) as someone said before, it shows thoughtfulness and looking back and basically towny.
Lab i have felt their progression to be towny and their ideaolgoy and theory have been pretty town-oriented
and ausuka doesnt feel off in any way, but probably my weakest townread

[Eragon]

Did irrel just quickhammer me in the middle of his post?

Or had I only 2 votes?

well it needs 5 votes im pretty sure

and maybe manatee will go by homesite rules where votes need to be seperate lines

[Eragon]

Like.. who seriously is going to send LabRat to heaven today

honestly i think they are p.towny overall, so i wouldn't fight against it.

If they are town, who is scum? I'm left with you or Ausuka.

see my above post for my thoughts

[Eragon]

colors dont mean anything i just felt it made it easier to pinpoint stuff

I love that colouring method.
I may use it in the future.

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[Eragon]

If you're scum, please hammer.

who is you talking to

[Eragon]

why would you want him to hammer if hes scum?

[Eragon]

I'lll give it an hour or so I guess.

Here are my last words, lynch keyser or tw tomorrow, preferably the latter of the two, if scum send the other to heaven and lymch irrel and you'll have a good chance of winning. Good luck!

mindmeld

[Eragon]

ok wtf

[Eragon]

{volxen}
{Lab, Ausuka, Keyser/TW}
{keyser/tw}
{irrel}

makes this game easier at least.

now the only thing i need to figure out is the scum in TW/Keyser

[Eragon]

is tw's attitude of having doc J in high town but pushing volxen indicative of town!tw or scum!tw hoping the flow will get doc j lynched?

[Eragon]

The lack of rejection from the rest of the thread makes me wanna not send Dr. J to heaven. I don't think he's a wolf but I think scum want him heaven'd

towny paranoia or scummy TMI

[Eragon]

eh we cant really take the risk of having someone flip town today.

VOTE: Irrelephant


i think we need to solve TW/kesyer, but voting them today
if we lynch the scum, then its GG for us
if we lynch the town, then is basically GG for scum.

tl;dr its a lot riskier

[Eragon]

dayum tw already has 40 more posts than WW lmao

[Eragon]

VOTE: volxen

VOTE: LabRat

VOTE: Dr. Jekyll
Bbl. sorry lovelies.
<3

VOTE: volxen
Sick as a dog now, I'll be aroundish but kind of feverish and trying to sleep.

do these votes ever come from mafia!TW with buddy Mafia!doc j?

camps on 2 different people(both very very likely town)
then votes doc J, who was extremely consensus
and then even comes back about 50 posts later and votes for a CW
plus he was the only person on volxen cw.

Any comments tw before I hammer? Its late here

nup, busy with work and being a puddle of brain goo.

Good luck in heaven friend. If you're a wolf mad respect to both of you (but mad mad respect to Lcp for holding the torch so high while kor's been v/la)

is it hard to say never w/w here?

[Eragon]

goddamnit why is tw/kesyer so hard

[Eragon]

It's a joke, he's not scum.

on another note, why does Scum!keyser say this right before doc J flips

[Eragon]

@TW, i know you have said you can't see yourself being TvT, but is it possible to re-revaluate? When you feel up to it of course.

@keyser, same question to you.

[Eragon]

I'm absolutely happy with Keyser. I'm townreading him at the moment and more so than tw or lab. Volxen... I'm not sending someone to heaven based on meta. I'd rather send a townread to heaven

VOTE: Keyser


As for the rest, by POE scum must be among them though I am not discounting my possible townreads, tw and labrat, I'm a bit shaken in those by scummy things I've seen

dun dun dunnnnn, and i dont mean dunnstral

Going to heaven is fine by me


Korina has a real life emergency apparently... I'd expect him back in about 24h

I suppose thats the benefit of hydraing, your partner can play on...


I'm not sure I agree with those three. I read labrat as the most town, followed by tw. Irrel, kind of null, I haven't seen much either way tbh.

I definitely agree that I don't see why eragon is town here.

My strongest TR would be keyser though

does doc J hard townread buddy!keyser or pocketed town!keyser here?

its like scum doesn't want me in heaven
but then I see my 2 major trs don't want me in heaven

could this also be TMI, showing scum on the volxen wagon and/or lab/keyser etc...

[Eragon]

ugh i have 40 minutes to do a shit-ton of Hw.

bye

[Eragon]

Also @Eragon, please change your vote from me to Dr. J.

UNVOTE: Volxen

ill unvote for now and see where i leave off soon

never got around after this

[Eragon]

all due respect but

I called volxen was a better choice for heaven. I was a lot subtler about the fact we probably should have extractsd more content from Korina but in spite of that flip, it was a clearly scum motivated wagon and I'm proud I called for that to be avoided.

Ugh.... was not expecting that scum Dr. J flip, WTF...

Now I feel like I have to reevaluate everything once again. How many of Dr. J's scum partners do you believe were on his wagon? Given how universally townread Dr. J was,

I think it's also possible neither of his scumbuddies were on his wagon.

This game just got much harder...

meaning both remaining scum in {Me/TW/Lab}
yea no.

[Eragon]

I'm grumpy and gonna be passed out soon enough >:c

change your avatar back to fluffy ducky and be happy

[Eragon]

hot take: 3 of the doc J voters were scum

[Eragon]

anyway current mood is scum probably pushed the Dr. J wagon earlier and town would have joined it later. Haven't checked names yet. Too pissy and tired. Towards the end though it was really obviously poorly motivated (I still thought he was town just thought he probably had shite reads or something) but literally fuck everyone for not just quicklynching someone else

if we'd sent Labby we'd have an awesome high info lynch
If we'd sent Volxy we'd have a higher chance of a townie in heaven

good news, this probably solves via vca. Bad news, I'm grumpy.

names:

Keyser Söze, volxen, Ausuka, Irrelephant, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde


what i think

volxen town for sure
Ausuka probably town but might be wrong
Keyser, im mixed signals
Irrel, scum
doc J, scum

[Eragon]

all due respect but

I called volxen was a better choice for heaven. I was a lot subtler about the fact we probably should have extractsd more content from Korina but in spite of that flip, it was a clearly scum motivated wagon and I'm proud I called for that to be avoided.

Ugh.... was not expecting that scum Dr. J flip, WTF...

Now I feel like I have to reevaluate everything once again. How many of Dr. J's scum partners do you believe were on his wagon? Given how universally townread Dr. J was, I think it's also possible neither of his scumbuddies were on his wagon.

This game just got much harder...

What do you think is more likely? Talk me through the wagon

I don't know right now, I'm so confused and shocked by Dr. J's flip. Obviously Keyser's theory about a TW/LabRat/Irellephant scumteam is wrong. At least one of you is town, and I need to find out which one of you that is...

out of those 3 i definitely go labrat.

[Eragon]

hot take: 3 of the doc J voters were scum

Kinda wouldn't surprise me a while lot?
if there's a wolf it's probably you, I think Labby presented as real af unless she was just hard pocketing me (need a double check here)

your unvote is a viable nervous action around a buddy and isn't impossible to manipulate vca but hey I also think there are 2 more wolves on the wagon ^_^

that would mean volxen is my buddy?

if not, explain how its AI at all, due to me literally quoting volxen's post to NOT vote him

[Eragon]

bOiLiNg HoT tAkE

Keyser is probably town btw I really doubt he's... that....... way........... about a scumbuddy

actually that flip is highly indicative of town!Keyser :/

super spicy, but i think the same too maybe...

at the top of the page i asked you/keyser about thoughts of TvT

[Eragon]

I can't focus enough to respond to that but I don't think it's all that strongly alignment indicative no? I don't see what I should be townreading about you from it

uhh you shouldn't be townreading me from it.

its NAI unless you are calling an Eragon/Volxen team

[Eragon]

all due respect but

I called volxen was a better choice for heaven. I was a lot subtler about the fact we probably should have extractsd more content from Korina but in spite of that flip, it was a clearly scum motivated wagon and I'm proud I called for that to be avoided.

Ugh.... was not expecting that scum Dr. J flip, WTF...

Now I feel like I have to reevaluate everything once again. How many of Dr. J's scum partners do you believe were on his wagon? Given how universally townread Dr. J was, I think it's also possible neither of his scumbuddies were on his wagon.

This game just got much harder...

What do you think is more likely? Talk me through the wagon

I don't know right now, I'm so confused and shocked by Dr. J's flip. Obviously Keyser's theory about a TW/LabRat/Irellephant scumteam is wrong. At least one of you is town, and I need to find out which one of you that is...

out of those 3 i definitely go labrat.

And out of TW and Irrelephant, who do you consider more likely to be scum? Irrelephant because he was on Dr. J's wagon?

irrelephant obviously(Re: my vote)

and not just b/c of that

[Eragon]

I can't focus enough to respond to that but I don't think it's all that strongly alignment indicative no? I don't see what I should be townreading about you from it

uhh you shouldn't be townreading me from it.

its NAI unless you are calling an Eragon/Volxen team

ok we agree yoh could be either town or scum from it so it's NAI

or are you saying its town indicative unless I think the team is you/volx? if so, why and why not if I think the team is you/volx?

its not AI AT ALL, unless you think the team is volxen/me, in which case it might be scum indicative.

but from your recent postings you dont think volxen is scum, so its 100% NAI

[Eragon]

please continue this convo I am seeing this like tiny tiny spark happening. keep fanning it

which convo?

also its 10:15 and i still have 16 more paragraph questions to answer :/

[Eragon]

ill try

[Eragon]

its not AI AT ALL, unless you think the team is volxen/me, in which case it might be scum indicative.

but from your recent postings you dont think volxen is scum, so its 100% NAI

ok pardon if this is semantics but you've lost me officially. let's say I think there's 1-2 woofers in you/volxen. talk me through why whether I think you're tvs or SvS should effect my stance on whether that post is AI?

becuase you said something about me being careful around a partner, which i then showed was false because i was following what volxen said, so if you think me vs volxen is anything other than TvS, then i wouldn't be nervous around a buddy, because volxen was the only one i interacted with about the unvote(including the unvote itself)

however, if we were SvS, then it would be true i might be nervous around a buddy, thus it would be AI

[Eragon]

Ohh yeah okay sickposting
more, like, nervous around the imminent prospect of a partner being lynched not necessarily SvS with volxen. I meant nervous around the flipped scum wagon

sorry

oh, but the point still stands, i only unvote because volxen asked me too.
so why is it nervous around the prospect of a partner being lynched.

Spoiler:

anyways do you really think i get nervous that easy

[Eragon]

like I said I haven't really looked into it you're just getting my like, wagononical hypothesis. still need to gather and synthesise data to form the conclusion.

since you say it that way I'm sure I'll find you innocent. nothing to worry about.

Spoiler:

I don't know... does the wrath of the ducky make you nervous?

every little bit helps :3
(including something called sleep that feels non-existent)

Spoiler:

nope! the duck wrath is fun actualy, it feels like getting tickled by 10,000 feathers

[Eragon]

anyways feel better soon, do what i could never do(get sleep), and dont mafia unless you feel up to it :3

if anything i post comes out jarbled and un-recognizable i probably fell asleep on my keyboard

[Eragon]

$33 TH1$ P0$T1NG 1$ T3RR1Bl3 4444444

[Eragon]

and yes, this is legitamitely my cat
and yes, this legitamitely just happened
and yes, i should not have done this.

[Eragon]

V/La until Sunday due to being in Washington with my family celebrating turkey-week
I’ll be able to post but not as much as normal

[Eragon]

Uh I told them at 4:31 last night

Does that count?

[Eragon]

Well Era... it's you and me against the world buddy.
I'm still pretty sure Not Voting is town tho

sad ;_;

ill be able to post soon, im worn out from vacation and sleep deprivation.

[Eragon]

@manatee "Dr Jekyll and MrHyde, Mafia Goons"

you bad son.
i didnt know they were multiple goons.




jokes aside, nice flip, im triggered i havent been around, sorry, will do things

[Eragon]

VOTE: irreIephant
Sh0uId pr0b d0 that bef0re d0ing anything eIse

does this hammer on a buddy happen right before leaving?

[Eragon]

question, do we play it safe and lynch spewed town or do we lynch probably town?

Im talking like lynching in Keyser and TW that i dont really see flipping scum, but there is a chance