Open 794 Pick Your Power X/Y (finished)

[Datisi]

good morning fuckers

VOTE: marquis

ico please start townspewing asap so i know whether to stop the wagon on you tyty

[Datisi]

It is I...coneum

wait i just realized i could've replied to this with
"dat is i"
don't post before waking up properly kids

duck, is that because i'm not in the scuM PT WITH YOU YOU SCUMDUCK

[Datisi]

ok now that i actually read the posts, here's a vote on someone that i think is slightly >rand (that symbol means more than right i haven't had my coffee yet) scum

VOTE: gypyx

discuss

[Datisi]

should i townlean ico off of page 1-2 shitposting? no. will that stop me? also no.

[Datisi]

interesting. are you noticing similiarities now?

[Datisi]

ok, i just read gypyx's posts form the first two pages of that game, and i agree with you that his entrance in this game feels ~different~

i don't think it's necessarily town!indicative this time around though. you?

[Datisi]

hoopla, listen. i haven't properly played mafia in like 4-5 days now. withdrawl is getting to me. i am *itching* for a good argument. how are we supposed to have it when you're on the fence???

whatever. let's see, ico followed my vote, i could call him sheeping and/or pocketing scum for that... nah. ducky still hasn't replied to my very serous accusation of being scum, so nah...

ay yo gypyx, you gonna say anything? you've gone awfully quiet now that the spotlight's on you

pedit: and what about me dragon
am i town yet

[Datisi]

yesterday i was skimming the run of pyp where skitt was scum, and i think someone there said it's happened once? the numbers being 2/2/6

i dunno if it's happened since, but i'm too lazy to check.

fwiw my guess weould've been something like 3 so

[Datisi]

so, in those 14 games, how often do you think scum have gone for a WIFOM-play and selected the same number as a buddy? have a guess.

this made me worry that hoopla is the scum doubling up, then i looked at the draft and i see both she and ico picked 5 and i thought "pls no"

then i thought that if scum were to double up, they would most likely double up on smaller numbers to maybe have a better chance of getting a PR

then i remembered i'm the one of the people who doubled up on 1 so oops nvm

[Datisi]

draft positions of 42 scum in 14 PYP games:

1st - xxx
2nd - xxxxx
3rd - xxx
4th - xxx

5th - xxxxxx

6th - xxx
7th - xxx
8th - xxx
9th - xxxxx
10th - xx
11th - x
12th -x
13th - xx
14th - xx

All picks are in, the draft order (randomized within sets picking the same number) is as follows:

DrDolittle 8
Something_Smart 9
Umlaut 21
Marquis 1

Datisi 1

Clover Ebi 3
the worst 3
Hoopla 5
Iconeum 5
Grumpy Cat 11
Gypyx 11
word321 4
iamausername 4
Green Crayons 4

[Datisi]

hmm, have you checked how often scum goes for "low" numbers as opposed to "high" numbers, or a mix within the two?

[Datisi]

should i townlean ico off of page 1-2 shitposting? no. will that stop me? also no.

Is it just the fact that ico was shitposting that makes him a townlean? Cuz pretty much everyone is doing it

yes but ico is doing it in a ToWnY way

[Datisi]

[snip]

well then
guess it's over
VOTE: datisi
ggwp

[Datisi]

ok that's enough self-voting for this game, wouldn't want this to spiral into an actual serious wagon now would we

VOTE: gypyx

hoopla, out of curiosity, why wasn't your RVS vote on one of the 1's?

gypyx, do you have an opinion on like anything that's happened

[Datisi]

in actuality, i'd probably prefer to wagon a player who hasn't been doubled/tripled up.

but i am amused at your slot hitting the jackpot on two separate metrics.

that's what i was wondering about when asking "is scum more likely to pick small numbers?", just because scum is unlikely to double up with *each other* doesn't mean scum is unlikely to double up with townies if they happened to pick numbers that scum often picks

this feels like a garbled thought but whatever

i'm also not sure how much mech i wanna approach this game with

and yeah, i had a 50% chance of getting the draft position that's historically twice as likely to contain scum, woo

pedit: oh look ico it's starting

[Datisi]

You

(daitsi)

have some pretty susp placement, but i'm waiting to see more

who?

[Datisi]

is it bad that i agree

like the calling me ou of susp placement thing just feels fake?? not like a real thought??? i dunno

ico are you pocketing me

[Datisi]

do you have no thoughts on my posts so far?

[Datisi]

in actuality, i'd probably prefer to wagon a player who hasn't been doubled/tripled up.

can you elaborate on why you'd prefer this when you can pls ty

[Datisi]

you are not hoopla

[Datisi]

avatars looking left are 56% more better don't @ me

[Datisi]

[Datisi]

we might kill scum power?
which is a good way to win?

i thought you were against mech solving the game?

[Datisi]

i think he's figured it out, yeah

[Datisi]

VOTE: gypyx

[Datisi]

yeah, they should be able to talk in pregame.

[Datisi]

four votes wasn't a hammer??

[Datisi]

can you tell me why do those posts you linked in 125 ping you?

[Datisi]

I dnt like DrDolittle a.k.a. Doc from now on
VOTE: DrDolittle

can you talk about this instead?

[Datisi]

not quite true, i was the backup of 2019

but yeah, been a minute. got any hot takes for me?

[Datisi]

not quite true, i was the backup of 2019

but yeah, been a minute. got any hot takes for me?

I do get that u probably have a dependency of caffeine
I didnt get any weird vibes from the slot, so I give3 it a null for now

that is correct

also is the bottom line about me?

[Datisi]

ahh gotcha

question still stands, got feels on anyone other than hoopla/drd?

pedit: @word

[Datisi]

but I am interested on urs
if u have any takes, do share em by all means

i'm getting townpings from ico
s_s and drd are my "my gut is telling me this person is town but i have no reasoning to back it up with" reads
i have a sorta scumread that i'm gonna sit on for a bit more
uhhh that's about it

whats the point on gypyxs wagon?

back when i voted him i was thinking his posts on page one were forced/awkward
then his response to my poking felt kinda weird
i'm taking the fake hammer reaction thing to be NAI
i'll think more about this read in the morning

[Datisi]

i would never sit on a cat

grumpy, were your townreads from before serious?

[Datisi]

S_S, Gypyx, Green Crayons, Clover town.

elaborate on green and especially clover?

[Datisi]

as much as i'm finding it weird to get townpings from one mech post, i sorta find myself nodding along to 210

grumpy town maybe???

[Datisi]

okay okay shitty wallpost catchup yes???

first of all, my Super Secret Scumread was hoopla. the issue i had/have with the numbers and that post where she said she doesn't wanna go GC/username/word (yes i skimmed ahead before making this wallpost don't @ me) is that the three info points are (1) positions on draft, (2) numbers picked, (3) singleton/double/triple which like... (1) and (3) can vary widely based on what the townies pick, while (2) is solely a scum choice. (yes i'm aware the fact that scum is coordnating means (1) and (3) have *some* weight but it shouldn't be nearly enough, since they are basically a consequence of (2))

and the fact she said she'd prefer to go for top draft/singletons here is making we uneasy because if we were to go by (2) scum would actually be pretty low in this game's draft so like... then my mind started to wander and think maybe her team did pick something like 1/3/4 and got fucked and now the only chance of winning is getting the top draft town PRs executed but like idk if i want to commit to my tinfoil hat just yet

@s_s i saw you say you think hoopla's town for pushing unpopular opinion, can i get your take on my tinfoil here

~

winning top of the draft actually kinda sucks as town since you're a magnet for interference. whereas scum in top slots can wreak havoc because

town's tend to leave them unchecked out of fear

.

in the one pyp i played before (so small sample size etc) cop checked the 1st in draft on n1 so i dunno?

~

i kinda don't get why people are giving townpoints to green for calling out the gypyx thing... like i read the explainations and i Don't Get It. i liked the fact clover also said he got wolf pings from that slot but then he said he's liked word's intro so i guess mindmeld with clover is over

~

277 from umlaut is making me uneasy... like making my bones shiver... my spine doesn't appreciate it... are you scum umlaut??? i don't know. i don't like this post. i can't pinpoint why. it just feels... off... hmm...

more?? mindmeldy townpoints?? to drd for 292. echoing tw's questions in 299. moooore mindmeld with drd in 302???

~

Either way, from scum or town, I think effort wise Hoopla is definitely inclined to town, and my hoghest tl; the point was that scum can cast the same argument without the enormous effort (and possibly fun) of revolecting and analysing data, wich is more likely of someone who wants to genuinely look for tips on where scum is

i heavily *heavily* dislike this
townreading someone for effort like that is a very dangerous game and makes me think word should know better?? like there's a decent reason why scum in pregame would want to collect data (and the last time i played pyp, scum did indeed enter the game with "oh hey i checked out some previous runs") soooo ehhhhhh

~

re: 345 duck's reads
i don't know if i like or hate the fact that i can be obvtown or easy to read :/
i feel like our reads are otherwise more or less Similar hmm
@duck, can we talk about green? i'm havign trouble getting the townreads there. eli5 pls.

~

i'm getting weird vibes from username
@username, do you have any townreads or something? i think you've only talked about scumreads so far (other than s_s getting better i guess)

~
okay here we are woo
VOTE: umlaut

[Datisi]

you don't follow my train of thought or...? i mean 313 seemed to be starting a push for certain players over others based on draft, no?

[Datisi]

i feel like half the time grumpy is seriously trying to solve the game while the other half they're trying their hardest to get scumread and i'm finding it very amusing

[Datisi]

you don't follow my train of thought or...? i mean 313 seemed to be starting a push for certain players over others based on draft, no?

But, she's not arguing to use (2), and it's not true that (1) and (3) are direct consequences of (2)-- they include the assumption that scum intentionally avoided doubling up.

well that's my point, (2) seems like the most ~valid~ data point and the fact that it's being somewhat "overlooked" in favour of the other two in this scenario (a lot of small numbers picked, top three in draft being rather large numbers etc) is making me think there may be ~convenient bias~ in which slots she does or doesn't prefer

i know scum intentionally avoid doubling up with each other. but scum have no control over whether they're going to end up doubling with other townies, hence why i'm saying that "bias against going for the bottom three who tripled up and picked number 4" is making me go hmm

also yes i get she's not speaking in absolutes and that we must never vote those slots ever but ehh

[Datisi]

ugh i feel like i have too many "null but kinda scummy" slots right now

hoopla, do you have any non-mech reads/hot takes to offer

this game needs more content

maybe i'm not the one to talk when i keep dragging mech on

sigh

[Datisi]

(1) should i be worried that you reacted to half the things with oh ah (don't have to answer this) and (2) do you want me to Make a Triangle (please do answer this)

[Datisi]

re duck & my green read

first it was a sorta "mental note to keep my eye on this slot" because i was getting good feels on ico and i know he's a Popular Early Push and i also didn't get green's reason for suspecting him

i didn't really get anything from the whole fakehammer thing because it seems like a pretty easy thing for scum to notice/push and i don't quite Get the townreads over that

and like i can maaaaybe give some vague townpoints for the umlaut take + the "there's scum in dats/s_s/drd" take but that came after the fact so

[Datisi]

∆ (yes)

ok so grumpy i like them. i feel like i can follow what they're thinking even inbetween their shitposting. it's fine. it's cool. i like this cat.

ico i am aware has not done much yet and i am aware that for Reasons i'm gonna be a bit biased in my read for now. but like. i don't feel like i see anything alarming. i don't wanna go into paranoia mindfucks about him already.

drd i just feel like i read his posts and go "hey that's what i was thinking" (292, 302, 266, 153) and like for this gamestate where i feel like i'm missing Actual Townreads this is fine

s_s i'm just having gut town on. i don't know why, i don't know which posts are doing it, but it's a warm feeling and i'm gonna run with it for now

word i feel like i'm flip-flopping on? like now the more i look the posts look Good and Sincere even tho i don't know how much i like the content of some of them

clover and green are both like slightly towards the town part. i kinda vibe with the explaination for why clover's first post is town, and i kinda vibe with what green's said about him. also i liked some of green's takes as i said earlier.

hoopla i don't like my "case" or whatever and i'm yeeting her back into null.

duck... i know that i know nothing. i genuinely have no clue how to read you so i'mma just shelf this slot as ~neutral discussion participant~ until i get some sorta feeling somewhere

umlaut, so far my way of reading him has been "does he disremind me of the two scumgames of his that i modded" and the answer was yes and he was town and the answer right now is "no" and i'm aware that doesn't necessarily translate into him being scum but /shrug

marquis was at first null because Not Here but duck made an interesting remark so now it's null but also slightly to the right

username i kinda get the feeling that he's trying to avoid looking fake-busy (if that makes sense) but in turn i have almost no idea what his thoughts on the game are and his "pushes" so far just feel weirdly nitpicky and bad vibes all around.

gypyx started Not Good and now he's dissapeared and idk.

[Datisi]

is it bad that i thought "what are clover and umlaut talking about, this game is slow as shit, especially for a 14p" but then i realized i'm just traumatized from micro 960

[Datisi]

umlaut, so far my way of reading him has been "does he disremind me of the two scumgames of his that i modded" and the answer was yes and he was town and the answer right now is "no" and i'm aware that doesn't necessarily translate into him being scum but /shrug

Datisi can be town for this actually.

the wifom of "should umlaut be townreading me for this when the last time we played together and were t/t i used that as reasoning for townreading him (before voting him at eod but that's besides the point) and he liked it and therefore i would know he buys that reasoning from me so would theoretically know how to approach him as scum and he shouldn't be awarding me townpoints for it"

maybe i shouldn't be overthinking it

maybe i should

should i?

[Datisi]

i think you've been a useful contributor too, though i admit i haven't seen your play before, so can't really trust my judgement there yet. i tend to favour utility executing D1 and like keeping around voices of reason like you - because in the event they are town, it will be +EV.

can you elaborate on this? like i'm not sure exactly what part of my play or posting so far feels like ~useful contribution~ (or what part you consider it to be that)

[Datisi]

nothing

shift me to the top please. i'm so sad.

to be fair i probably should've put you at the top of the triangle...

[Datisi]

re duck & my green read

first it was a sorta "mental note to keep my eye on this slot" because i was getting good feels on ico and i know he's a Popular Early Push and i also didn't get green's reason for suspecting him

i didn't really get anything from the whole fakehammer thing because it seems like a pretty easy thing for scum to notice/push and i don't quite Get the townreads over that

and like i can maaaaybe give some vague townpoints for the umlaut take + the "there's scum in dats/s_s/drd" take but that came after the fact so

here is my dum read of green, duckee
can i now have your probably less dum read of green

[Datisi]

i don't get your triangle diagram though. the vertical axis is just uncertainty?

kind of but not really. i'm not feeling "certain" about any of my read so far. however, the closer someone is to the "ogofidk" point, the more their slot gives me a headache, is a pain to form a read on, makes me confused, makes me have paranoia, etc, etc. i'm more of an emotion/gut driven player, and it's slots that make me... uneasy? lemme know if i'm explaining it badly.

[Datisi]

~stuff~

duck i'm sorry i'm reading this and i feel like i'm reading a foreign language, this is a note to myself to try to reread this once it's not 2am

i'm very vibing with grumpy's 460

hoopla. you have experience with username? he's usually like this on day one? actually you said he is, uhhh. okay. cool.

[Datisi]

i think we're very different players and i hope we're both town because i feel like we could make an interesting dynamic

[Datisi]

please imagine hoopla is moved like half an inch towards the "town" point on my triangle. i'mma go turn off for a few hours.

[Datisi]

ico did you like my triangle

[Datisi]

i have avatars turned off

what

[Datisi]

w h y

[Datisi]

my next question would be "how do you live like that" but i won't ask

i will make a special triangle just for you

as soon as i crawl outta bed that is

[Datisi]

Spoiler: do not open if you are not a dragon, if you are a dragon please open

ok so grumpy i like them. i feel like i can follow what they're thinking even inbetween their shitposting. it's fine. it's cool. i like this cat.

ico i am aware has not done much yet and i am aware that for Reasons i'm gonna be a bit biased in my read for now. but like. i don't feel like i see anything alarming. i don't wanna go into paranoia mindfucks about him already.

drd i just feel like i read his posts and go "hey that's what i was thinking" (292, 302, 266, 153) and like for this gamestate where i feel like i'm missing Actual Townreads this is fine

s_s i'm just having gut town on. i don't know why, i don't know which posts are doing it, but it's a warm feeling and i'm gonna run with it for now

word i feel like i'm flip-flopping on? like now the more i look the posts look Good and Sincere even tho i don't know how much i like the content of some of them

clover and green are both like slightly towards the town part. i kinda vibe with the explaination for why clover's first post is town, and i kinda vibe with what green's said about him. also i liked some of green's takes as i said earlier.

hoopla i don't like my "case" or whatever and i'm yeeting her back into null.

duck... i know that i know nothing. i genuinely have no clue how to read you so i'mma just shelf this slot as ~neutral discussion participant~ until i get some sorta feeling somewhere

umlaut, so far my way of reading him has been "does he disremind me of the two scumgames of his that i modded" and the answer was yes and he was town and the answer right now is "no" and i'm aware that doesn't necessarily translate into him being scum but /shrug

marquis was at first null because Not Here but duck made an interesting remark so now it's null but also slightly to the right

username i kinda get the feeling that he's trying to avoid looking fake-busy (if that makes sense) but in turn i have almost no idea what his thoughts on the game are and his "pushes" so far just feel weirdly nitpicky and bad vibes all around.

gypyx started Not Good and now he's dissapeared and idk.

*also note hoopla should be slightly to the left now

[Datisi]

ok i reread 459 and i feel like i get it now except for the "ah yes good excellet" posts which i still don't get but ok

I appreciate you lumping mine & datisi's solving efforts together because I've been a little bit more null on him than I'd like to be; in a ~rand game where he was town i would have him in the top right corner at this point regardless of my own alignment and it's kinda got me scratching my chin a little

do you wish to talk to me about this

[Datisi]

my ico townread doesn't feel warm and cozy and i'm worried

pedit: @duck yeah fair
fwiw i feel like i don't have a good ~grasp~ on the game as i usually do by this time
it happens sometimes
sometimes it gets fixed with time
sometimes i get mislynched with a lot of kicking and screaming
we'll see

[Datisi]

I kinda like Hoopla throwing some number analysis for us, but at the same time i don't like her avoiding to take a stance on me, not sure how to read that

You (daitsi) have some pretty susp placement, but i'm waiting to see more

Smart's entrance is kinda weird ngl, but that's mainly my gut

VOTE: something smart

for what, this reaction?

like i already wrote i think it's bad. but like. gypyx isn't here right now. my vote there would be wasted. also i could get accused of being scum that's going after lhf or purposefully avoiding taking a stance on people around me. and that's bad.

[Datisi]

do you see me townreading gypyx anywhere????

like i know it's bad. but i also know the utility of me voting there or screaming at them right now is zero (0)

[Datisi]

it's PaRaNoIa

idk you kinda don't feel as ~interested~ in the game
but i don't know how AI that is when i don't feel myself being that ~interested~ in the game
but i'm gonna worry about it anyway

[Datisi]

yikes i'm only third i need to step my game up

ye okay but that's not what i mean. you have A Lot of posts but idk if i feel the townconeum Flame behind them you feel?? but i also don't exactly feel being led astray?? it's weird.

[Datisi]

ico are you mad at me now

[Datisi]

is this the "i'm fine" that means literally anything other than "i'm fine"

[Datisi]

i'm not planning on joining it either way

but i guess i'm looking for something that will make me think that's a good idea

[Datisi]

D:

[Datisi]

ok now the initial shock has gone down

what's up, duck?

[Datisi]

i am having a "oh god oh fuck what do i do now", that's true, but if you think scumtisi is the only idiot who needs time to think of what to say and have it be at least halfway decent, i've got news for you

[Datisi]

i don't really feel like you're trying to solve the game in the Way Datisi Normally Does; more like you're trying to look like you're doing a lot while kinda, like, drifting through.

i am trying to Solve Game, but the game isn't cooperating with me. when people aren't engaing with the game and/or me (or have content that i find difficult to engage with, e.g. username) it is Difficult.

your conversation with ico just now felt... incredibly averse? like you were looking at him in a zoo or smth

prior to this page i would have been more interested in roasting iconeum over hot coals than roasting you over hot coals so i suppose i'm surprised to find you were the one who didn't feel like you wanted to be having the engagement ?

correct? i was 100% not wanting to have that conversation?? but like... it would've been easy to double down on my ico townread there if i wanted to. i've done it before. but at some point when votes started rolling in on ico i was like "hmm do i feel the strong desire to start defending him" and the answer was no. then i thought "ok do i wanna vote ico???" and the answer was once again no. so i thought that maybe hey talking with him is gonna help me figure out what i wanna do?? but our conversation didn't Inspire me.

also that reaction just now

i'm not sure why town!tisi is kinda stunned/confused and then curious vs. previous games you've almost had this prickly vibe around being pushed incorrectly

this is kinda difficult to answer without knowing which games you're exactly talking about, since my reaction varies based on (1) how townread i think i should be and (2) how i'm reading the person that's pushing me

like
i don't think i'm aaaaaalllllllllllllllllll that towny here tbqh

i'm surprised you would be so blown down by how real that read/vote was that you were too stunned to headbutt me

i also don't think you're all that towny but i'm not sure why that should be translated into me wanting to take you head on?

why did you put me so close to town in your triangle if you were having such doubts about me? doubts that only seemingly appeared right after a couple votes on me?

i'm having doubts about everyone
but it's coupled with (1) our history and (2) the fact that until there were votes on you nothing was challenging my read and i was able to just shelf it to the back of my mind and not think about it

datisi did they scream at you in the scum pt that you shouldn't be townreading me?

do you really think that would've stopped me

[Datisi]

so the votes on me inspired you enough to question the townread

like, just there being votes then, or the reasoning behind em?

when i see a bandwagon i'm like "what should i do about this wagon", and the answer to the first quuestion of "should i join" was a loud "no"

so i thought "ok it's ico and i'm townreading him and it's day one and he's being pushed for some (to me) bad reasons, i should jump up and call the reasons shite and defending him yes?"

and the answer to that question was "huh actually i don't feel the urge to do that either"

which made me worry and i hoped our conversation would shine some light

it didn't

[Datisi]

gypyx is here now, tho

also now that the mini trainwreck 2157 is over i can talk about it
ico and i were t/t and i was hard townreading him day one and he was being pushed for shit reasons and i felt a very strong urge to protecc him and it worked out in the end
and i saw votes rolling in here and i *didn't* feel that strong urge and that made me worry
anyway

[Datisi]

fuck you got me

[Datisi]

VOTE: gypyx

[Datisi]

But I didnt like neither Datisis Traingle nor his posts in general, nor the recent change to Gypyx

what did you not like about them? as opposed to my previous posts? also the change to gypyx is bad because...?

Also,

Numbers

?

[Datisi]

for the focus on lhf; both gypyx and username fill the role to some degree. The only scumlean I actually ackowledge to some point is umlaut, in the sense that it is not as easy to push in ur triangle.
On the other hand, gypyx has shown to be generally unresponsive, or at least pushed against the wall, as with time and content. I dnt think that is particularly scum indicative by itself, without resting actual merit to the possibility of scum; but what I find worse in that, is the focus on said slot

hooookay oh boy

"focus" on lhf? oh look the people that are acting scummy are in your scumpool?? as if i'm not sorting other players???
username and gypyx. okay first of all i didn't even push username. how am i focusing on him?? and why do you acknowledge the scumread on umlaut? what makes him oh so much harder to push than the others?

gypyx is unresponsive yes. his reply to my earlier prodding was bad. (then he dissapeared but let's call that NAI.) then he returns with a promise of catchup but only talks about mech/numbers and a random scumping on tw from like 10 pages ago that was never explained. that is not scum indicative? you *don't* see a problem there?

also again, how am i "focusing" on him? i made a naked vote there lmao, how tf is that FoCuS

[Datisi]

describing my gypyx votes as solely for his inactivity/non contributing is not accurate

also again i never pushed username *and* his position on my list has nothing to do with his activity?

did you know that... sometimes... lhf... is scum... wild huh...

also you didn't answer why you're ~acknowledging the umlaut scumread~

[Datisi]

"hey that's what i was thinking"

hi

helo

do you see me townreading gypyx anywhere????

like i know it's bad. but i also know the utility of me voting there or screaming at them right now is zero (0)

Why?

because the vote doesn't pressure him (since not here) and it's too eary for executing

[Datisi]

i am vibin drd for town yes

hi ico do we still have anything to discuss

[Datisi]

not what i had in mind when asking that but ok

carry me to victory

VOTE: umlaut

[Datisi]

INTENSE PINGING

why is that post a ping?

[Datisi]

Why is Ico a popular push early usually?

goes hard early game, his pushes can make no sense, reacts defensively to pushes which people see as scummy because ???

[Datisi]

thanks for not interacting with anything i said, ducky

[Datisi]

anyway, that's a huge tangent from the original question. Umlaut seems to be picking up on a lot of the same things i am, and he keeps posting extremely relatable content like this:

Spoiler: Umlaut posts

this game is well beyond what I consider the sweet spot of activity and I tend to react the same way Clover says he is reacting (by just mindlessly scrolling through and then realizing I haven't actually read anything) unless I actively force myself to slog through, which is hard to do for something that is ultimately supposed to be a recreational activity

More talking about herself than talking about other players which is what town should be more interested in doing.

I mean like I could make up some fresh hot takes to impress everyone with my original and unique perspective but overall I think it's probably better to just say what I actually think instead.

this last one in particular is, as i believe the kids are saying these days, A Mood.

can you talk about this a bit more? like, is he picking up on things that you agree on that are game-content-related, not just "relatable"? because the first quote is complaining about the game speed, and the last one is complaining about the "dullness" of it (or the ability to make things up for townpoints? anyway), which i don't exactly take to be AI?

[Datisi]

Where did you do this? I'm looking for the explanation and can't find it.

536, 540.

[Datisi]

hi gypyx do you have thoughts on like anything that's happened

[Datisi]

i'd usually say "thanks" but i feel like my avatar doesn't portray the exact level of sarcasm i want that "thanks" to have

[Datisi]

should i be townreading drd because his post made me laugh

pedit: oh hai

[Datisi]

< insert a complaint about most of the game being a weird shade of null here >

VOTE: Umlaut

can you talk about this

[Datisi]

VOTE: marquis
owo?

(should be E-2 by my count, proceed however you want idc kek xD)

[Datisi]

now i wish my wagon had taken off so i could find out how hoopla rates my avatar...

[Datisi]

i'd be active if there was anything to talk about

[Datisi]

@mod

Marquis Aug 31, 06:50pm Sep 04, 01:54am

2 days 22 hours

[Datisi]

aaa

[Datisi]

am i correct to think that from town!me pov there's like... a ++rand chance marquis is scum (and not looking at his abysmal play so far)

[Datisi]

because i'm BORED and i want something to HAPPEN

[Datisi]

Spoiler: NUMBERS

it took a little while. i don't know if i have exactly the same list of games Hoopla did; i went through the ones listed in the history section of this setup's wiki page, minus the one Hoopla mentioned where the mod didn't give scum pregame chat and these are my findings:

town picked:
1: 21 times (13.64% of total, compared to 19.05% of total scum)
2: 18 times (11.69% of total, compared to 7.14% of total scum)
3: 14 times (9.09% of total, compared to 9.52% of total scum)
4: 31 times (20.13% of total, compared to 7.14% of total scum)
5: 11 times (7.14% of total, compared to 9.52% of total scum)
6: 13 times (8.44% of total, compared to 9.52% of total scum)
7: 11 times (7.14% of total, compared to 2.38% of total scum)
8: 8 times (5.19% of total, compared to 4.76% of total scum)
9: 4 times (2.60% of total, compared to 2.38% of total scum)
10: 6 times (3.90% of total, compared to 4.76% of total scum)
11: 3 times (1.95% of total, compared to 2.38% of total scum)
12: 5 times (7.14% of total, compared to 2.38% of total scum)
13: 2 times (1.30% of total, compared to 2.38% of total scum)
15: 1 time (0.65% of total, compared to 2.38% of total scum)
16, 17, 19, 22, 30 & 9002: 1 time each (0.65% of total, compared to 0% of total scum)

scum also picked 18, 20, 22, 42 twice and 413, none of which were ever picked by town.

1 seems to be a significantly more likely scum pick, while 2 and 4 seem to be more likely town picks. any other pick is extremely null. mostly i think this supports Hoopla's plan to townblock the tripled up 4s in this game, though of course i would say that etc etc.

^?

don't get me wrong, the play definitely isn't *helping*

[Datisi]

i feel like i made a mistake somewhere, hmm...

[Datisi]

because he's done literally nothing and keeps promising content that never comes?

[Datisi]

well it sure as fuck don't make them town

idk. if you're looking for an answer that's more nuanced or elaborate than "he's lurking, making empty promises, and i liked your stance about why his posts are +scum enough to jump on his wagon and see what happens" like. i got disappointing news.

[Datisi]

and pivoting back to "oh they're ++rand scum because numbers and they're abysmal because they're lurking" makes my stomach sink

is that not... why we're wagoning them?

[Datisi]

one of those was talking just about the MeCh while not factoring in dayplay?

[Datisi]

am i correct to think (becuase i've fucked the math up a couple of times this game already) that the fact marquis picked number 1 in draft makes him more likely to be scum fmpov (similar to asking "does picking 1 make you more likely to be scum" but we're the only two 1-picks and i know i'm town so for me it's just him while to the rest of y'all it would be "is it more likely than random that there is scum in the 1-picks?")

which has nothing to do with his play so far.

[Datisi]

did datisi towntell

depends. i'd argue i as scum never make those posts regarding marquis when it's *not needed* and i can *get away* with lurking but self meta bad etc etc

so realistically, in this

economy

gamestate? no.

[Datisi]

hi ico i missed you

[Datisi]

If dats is scum and marquis is town, pushing the marquis elimination would make the number god frown on dats, so in that sense maybe

Idk, the numbers are already saying dat is susp, so for scum!datisi pushing marquis isn't really making the statistics worse imo

its hard to exlain, but my gut says flip this

if marquis ends up making some good ass claim or some shit this is probably where i'm going next ngl

[Datisi]

and there goes the marquis wagon

pedit: o ?

[Datisi]

ye i know i'm talking about duck + some other people that left it

i don't remember who but i remember thinking "shit is marquis down to E-3" so

[Datisi]

VOTE: gypyx

honestly? sure.

[Datisi]

i am looking at this game and i have no damn clue what to think anymore

why is gypyx like... scum claiming and still doing nothing

why is that wagon so damn hard to push

why is word pushing a50 on the basis of them not picking pgo

what is this game anymore

[Datisi]

i am already voting there

how many votes he on? 4?

[Datisi]

hope you're right

i can see this thinking coming from town worst

in the meantime, can you talk about this? wer you suspecting tw prior to this?

[Datisi]

thanks ducky i have no idea what i would do without you

in all seriousness, my word comment was meant as "why is word doing anything they can to stop the gypyx wagon again" and i was ready to drop some Bomb Ass Preflip Assoc but then i went to check and realized their earlier push of umlaut was at the time of marquis wagon not gypyx so rip

[Datisi]

goddammit s_s, i was about to post that >:c

[Datisi]

im scum

no haha its only joke xD

[Datisi]

gypyx

why do you think s_s is s_scum

like i have a Thing that is bothering me about s_s but i don't thnik that my Thing is why you allegedly think he is scum

can you

Elaborate

[Datisi]

i don't think the "hasn't voted" is a scumtell

can you elaborate on 2 and 3?

[Datisi]

and i have a lot of townreads.

can you refresh me on this if it's public knowledge pls

[Datisi]

i'm sorry what was slippy?

i like... hng. that doesn't strike me as Massively Wrong but day one no flips etc etc
i'm not exactly scumreading ico so i dunno what to think about the "maybe one scum in dats/ico" line

can you give me your tldr for s_s town? i will look at it and compare to gypyx's stuff at some time that won't be 4am

unless the team is like... exactly a50/gypyx/umlaut there is Something Wrong In The Village but i ain't ever solve a 3-scum game on day one and i sure as fuck don't plan to start now

[Datisi]

i'm sorry what was slippy?

hi sorry i'm v tired i can't tell if this was a joke or something pls help

[Datisi]

oh. i somehow though you were calling my question (scum)slippy and i was waiting to fight you about it nvm

oh shit, octagon? do i need to start making like 3d models of reads to keep up... an actual pyramid maybe???

i don't get how that pop-in is supposed to be towny tho :/ why am i awake

[Datisi]

where's the flip

[Datisi]

[Datisi]

clover ebi, you should talk more today.

VOTE: gypyx

[Datisi]

am i conftown now? yes? okay cool.

[Datisi]

wait, does this mean people will actually listen to what i'm saying now? am i supposed to think before speaking? ughhh i was about to start throwing out takes with varying degrees of temperature to them, but i guess i shouldn't

[Datisi]

how many bus votes do we think there are? marquis was a spicy scum PR to bus on day *one*.

[Datisi]

OK.. tw says I'm being survivalistic... so I robably should quick!hammer? But what if Gypx is town? But what if I do NOT hammer and Gypx is Scum? Ok, what if I'm trolling and really don't care (which I am)??

ok, thoughts about this a50 could probably either tell or be told in the scum PT that the game wants his head, so might as well lolhammer a random townie and make sure you at least get the chance to use your 1-shot vig, no??

[Datisi]

ahhhh, i love being able to ask vague surface level questions and not worry about being called a scumfuck

[Datisi]

/shrug, i dunno. i haven't yet reread that part of the game to figure out whether a50 could tell himself that, hey the day was coming down to either him or gypyx, might as well lolhammer town!gypyx, secure a misexecute and an extra vig shot.

in and of itself, not ironclad by any means.

[Datisi]

hmm, by the looks of it we're getting a claim out of him today sooner or later... to vote for umlaut just to make it sooner...

[Datisi]

i think scum!a50 probably chokes on his words towards scumbuddy!me at some point late d1, but i'm also aware that this is an obvious path to take to subvert so
you should townread me but if u don't i udnerstand

how did this turn into towncasing yourself and WHY did this turn into towncasing yourself

[Datisi]

would you hardbus your 1shot vig into the ground on day one over his intro posts

asking for a friend

[Datisi]

VOTE: umlaut E-2, pls no lolhammer thank

let's get a claim boyos

[Datisi]

VOTE: gypyx

ok i know yall gonna yell at me for this but i doubt that umlaut ain't gonna count the votes on him and i feel like this Very Bad Feeling in my stomach about this so i'd rather not E-1 bc umlaut will prob be claiming anyways

if he refuses to claim at E-2 hit me up

[Datisi]

i think we've had enough of that this game tbh

[Datisi]

am i allowed to vent about my paranoia-reads or is that -EV right now

[Datisi]

i am really not sure how your takeaway from reading the 2157 mason PT can be "lol do what you feel is best"

[Datisi]

i am really not sure how your takeaway from reading the 2157 mason PT can be "lol do what you feel is best"

Your gambit was brilliant and you got screwed by the setup.

they... they were informed of the masonry...

[Datisi]

huh. i was thinking last that "wow, sure hope the uni backup is town so they shoot gypyx and we don't have to waste a day on him." was lowkey disappointed that didn't happen.

looking forward to your theorycrafts, drd

[Datisi]

thinking last night* zzz

[Datisi]

ladies... you're both pretty... why don't we unite our powers... our dashing good looks... and execute the obvscum...

[Datisi]

i don't think s_s was saying to crumb your role (it's pretty clear you're a rolecop), but to crumb your results.

anyway. does this mech check out? should drd claim his result? can we move on from this? find out next time~

[Datisi]

s_s, i was hoping you were gonna answer the other questions in 1317 as well :c

[Datisi]

i was asking more in a "what is The Mechanically Optimal Thing To Do" sense but sure

[Datisi]

you'd think i'd have enough of a brain to connect that myself.

maybe i should sleep...

[Datisi]

hi word what is your opinion of gypyx and the wagon situation we had at EoD yesterday

[Datisi]

gypyx isn't powerful or loud as scum but he is audiacious.
gypyx isn't powerful or loud in this game but he is audacious.

the scumclaim isn't a ~towny move~. it's not a ~scummy move~. it's transparently a reaction test, same as his test to being fakehammered before.
can town do reaction tests? yes, to try and sort players.
can scum do reaction tests? yes, to try and look towny.
so what do we make of the fact his evaluation of reactions to his reaction test is shitty?

i acknowledge the reasoning that gypyx wouldn't gamethrow as scum. he's not banned, so i agree he's not a thrower. i absolutely refute the reasoning that because he's not gamethrowing, he's towny.

what do you think of this

[Datisi]

lol i have so many things i want to argue about but i'm like... going to Not do that right now because i need to sleep and i need to talk to the dragon first

[Datisi]

this just in, picking a unibackup or rolecop is unusual for town

[Datisi]

are you trying to argue that drd is likelier to be scum because he picked rolecop over cop *specifically*?

yeah ok i'll deal with this in the morning. nobody hammer anything, thanks.

[Datisi]

at the end of the day we will be going for gypyx

[Datisi]

but on the other hand; scum picking Role Cop over Jailkeeper/1-shot vig/Roleblocker/Vengeful for first pick is very unusual.

i'd maybe even add the 1-shot redirector or commuter. like rolecop is actually a very shitty role for scum in this setup because (1) scum will already know where the town power is situated around based on draft and (2) claims in this game are happening much faster than in a closed game

[Datisi]

when said thought process is unusual for town, and 2 allegedly town players have the same when they have the first picks of the games, well, let me doubt of at least one of em

this just in, picking a unibackup or rolecop is unusual for town

@s_s

i myself don't think it's unusual, and also like, the rolecop/UB pair seems like... one of the least likely for scum to pick. idk.

[Datisi]

i brought it up first today!!

[Datisi]

is it bad that like, an hour ago i wrote a mental note like "my current ez game ez lyfe solve is gypyx/word"

oh god why are we mindmelding

is duck scum again

[Datisi]

oh yeah ico i had something to ask hold on

[Datisi]

a50 flipping town points heavily towards (at least 1?) scum in SS/worst with how hard they pushed against gypyx wagon, while calling them equally scummy

a50 flipping scum pretty much hard clears both of em

hard to imagine a50 actually flipping scum seeing how easy that got thru

thoughts on this?

[Datisi]

ducky you're fueling my paranoia and if you continue at one point it's gonna make me gamethrow

[Datisi]

i'm not trying to rub anything ico, i was gonna ask you why you thought s_s was cleared anyway, it just so happens the timing is the way it is

ducky you're fueling my paranoia and if you continue at one point it's gonna make me gamethrow

how serious are you about that paranoia and what looks like a scumread on worst?

uhh like 2.3%

i feel like these reads are unlikely to have a deepwolf in high tiers (unless you're fooling as all)
namely i'm a bit anxious about clover & word but like, fine, we have time

clover is town
word Might not be
(also growing paranoia about the dragon)

[Datisi]

also where would i be in your reads if i hadn't picked 1,asking for a friend

[Datisi]

what, you don't think i start shit tunnelling my partner from page 2?

if you wanna help me with thaf paranoia, i'd appreciate it if you went back and tried to figure out why you thought a50 scumflip clears s_s

granted i think gypyx scumflip pretty much clears you and while i can't imagine that scumflip not happening, i've seen weirder shit in mafia so

[Datisi]

you know what's fucked about this

i've been mentally crying for the past two days because s_s is s_scaring me

but i was like "ok ico will come from weekend and will tell me why s_s is cleared and we'll kill scum and live happily ever after"

and now you pull this shit

[Datisi]

that is not how my brain functions when playing this game i'm sorry

[Datisi]

actually VOTE: gypyx l-1

i'm noooooot quite liking my gypyx scumread

(psst, ico, that was L-5)

[Datisi]

i think by my count (cough can we get a vc cough) he's at L-2? i would like to get a claim at least

[Datisi]

what exactly is the claim worth in this game?

maybe he tries to out a cop or a doc on the way down

somehow, he's been pretty diffiult to wagon, and a cc would probably make it a bit easier

[Datisi]

hmm, maybe i shouldn't be giving him ideas...

[Datisi]

VOTE: umlaut wheeee

that was marquis's vote, i don't think a50 votes at all

i think this was at the time umlaut wagon was originally building?

[Datisi]

basic logic suggests that scum!50 would take any and all reasons to justify hopping onto a counterwagon if it ain't scum?

basic logic says a50 would've quickhammered when he had the chance if it was on a townie lol

[Datisi]

that would indeed be hilarious

but i doubt it :c

[Datisi]

re ico: i've already said it and it got shut down, but gun-to-head it's word

i relooked at him, and like... at the time of marquis/umlaut, he was pushing umlaut. he was defending marquis's intro posts, while "hiding" behind umlaut. and he only voted the marquis slot after a50 replaced in (which means it was already known that there's bloodlust for a50's head) and using some very... very weird reasoning of "he picked 1s vig and i think pgo is the townier choice even tho it doesn't have to be AI this is only my opinion". like... i dunno.

[Datisi]

Everyone is just playing so weirdly, like you're just waiting for the game to play itself

And like, i'd advise y'all to consider who is scum when i'm flipping green

re the first line: ? ??? ???? ? ??

re the second line: this is... weaksauce. like, town!you *already knows* you're flipping green. and town!you can probably tell that at this point, you're the day's execution. like... why not use that time to actually hunt... if you're the universal scumread and you're town, you know there is something wrong. this is like... weak AtE with zero desire to solve

pedit: ico said it in like 20x less words fml

[Datisi]

i have reasons to be paranoid about you as well

, but as long as we have common interests (since D1 -> gypyx elim), i don't wanna go there

piss off lmao

[Datisi]

oh, i miscounted, what i called L-2 was L-3.

umlaut, what can i offer you in these trying times in an exchange for a hammer?

[Datisi]

in my defense i thought it was a hammer

[Datisi]

i want to point something out here but i understand it's -EV to do so right now

remind me in a bit before anyone hammers kthx

[Datisi]

gypyx i see you're online can you claim pls

[Datisi]

DrDolittle 8

Something_Smart 9

Umlaut 21

Marquis 1

Datisi 1
Clover Ebi 3
the worst 3

Hoopla 5

Iconeum 5
Grumpy Cat 11
Gypyx 11

striked out are claimed/dead

if gypyx's pick is held by scum, it forces them to claim their pair truthfully
if it's held by town, it lets scum know there's that role in grumpy/ico/duck/clover/me/s_s

of if gypyx is scum none of this actually matters

[Datisi]

Scumleans :

Umlaut
username

Worst

honestly i'm more interested in this that whatever he did or didn't pick

[Datisi]

hi petapan, looking forward to your contribution.

[Datisi]

:3

s_s, is this grounds for a massclaim?

[Datisi]

also uhhh obligatory
nice to be town with you ico, eh?

(also growing paranoia about the dragon)

i have reasons to be paranoid about you as well

granted i think gypyx scumflip pretty much clears you

gypyx scum would conftown you tho

Gypyx has been Eliminated. He was a

Mafia Goon

[Datisi]

how important is the order that we go in? going by draft or reads or?

pedit: okay that sounds good. from the bottom we go then.

[Datisi]

i'm down. holla when it's my turn.

[Datisi]

zzz

how much damage can be done if we go out of order? i just wanna be done with this lmao

[Datisi]

Gypyx (7) - Datisi, Green Crayons, iamausername, Iconeum, the worst, DrDolittle, Umlaut (Eliminated)
DrDolittle(2) - Clover Ebi, word321
Umlaut (1) - Grumpy Cat

Not Voting(2) - Something_Smart, Gypyx

hmm... s_s, do you think it's likely the last scum was off-wagon yesterday then? trying to save gypyx? was anyone legit doing that, other than word maybe?

[Datisi]

s_s, in a theoretical alternate universe where you're scum with marquis and gypyx, do you try to save him on d2?

[Datisi]

VT here.

[Datisi]

i think so far at least five times i started to type out a game-related thought/question before reminding myself that we need to claim the mass first asdfghjkl

[Datisi]

i don't doubt ico being town, but i moreso think he should go later because (1) it's 11pm in the land of europe and (2) he's on his weekend v/la and is therefore maybe not gonna be here til monday morning and i am impatient

though i don't exactly wanna be making these calls because oh god what if i somehow doom the entire town with this so idk do what y'all want

[Datisi]

2) not a mechanics wizard

the understatement of the century...

ye i'm fine with skipping over him for now

[Datisi]

i know we just started but i'm bored

DrDolittle 8 - rolecop
Something_Smart 9 - ?
Umlaut 21 - VT

Marquis

a50 1 - 1shot vig

Datisi 1 - ?
Clover Ebi 3 - ?
the worst 3 - VT

Hoopla 5 - VT

Iconeum 5 - ?
Grumpy Cat 11 - ?

Gypyx 11 - goon

word321

petpan 4 - VT
iamausername 4 - 1shot watcher
Green Crayons 4 - VT

i wanna see the spice
clover up!

[Datisi]

gypyx trying to plank so that marq/a50 wasn't eliminated makes me feel like i'm right

trying to plank...?

[Datisi]

oh, right

peta, you've only looked at the VCs and the two flipped scum slots, correct? if you're up for it, take a look around the wagons forming or whatever? i welcome a fresh set of eyes.

[Datisi]

s p i c e y

[Datisi]

oh clover

[Datisi]

Oh boy we really fucked the draft I feel

i am Starting to get this sinking feeling too lmao

[Datisi]

i mean sure whatever

also heads up i'm passing out soon so