Open 796: Haunted Village Game Over

[Jewel Barons]

Why are you so sure it won't?

just ignore her

Fair sentiment, may just. But I'm genuinely curious why she thinks that. The explanation you and Murdercat gave seemed solid enough to me as to why it was a bad idea.

she's probably just brazen scum. i recently played another open setup with taylor and she was scum and made a similar move on day 1 - openly trying to encourage town to make an obviously anti-town play. inexplicably she survived until day 3...

Would they do it again?

- Norwee

[Jewel Barons]

Also hi.
Gamma Emerald asked me to hydra so i just said yes. Don't think i'll be posting too much tbh, i dislike constantly changing accs.

- Norwee

[Jewel Barons]

I promise not to be a cursed vigilante that shoots all town PR's this time.
(Please for the love of god don't read the previous Haunted Village game i was in)

- Norwee

[Jewel Barons]

i mean... BM immediately jumped down my throat, even putting an RVS vote on me and then pushing me as scum and telling people to ignore me. its not shocking. i can play on given that. but i do have to defend myself, and i was asked a direct question about my feelings about BM. if thats an issue i dont mind being replaced. but its not such an issue for me that i cant be civil.

Then, drop it. Everything you spoke about can be addressed with posting about in game factors.

This post is scummy and white knighting.
VOTE: Brassherald

- Norwee

[Jewel Barons]

Norwee what is your scum game like?

Isis can tell you.
They know all about how scum!me plays in open games.

- Norwee

[Jewel Barons]

They don't call me Clint Eastwood for nothing.

- Norwee


(Nobody calls me that)

[Jewel Barons]

now that I'm actually posting from the hydra I'm gonna try to break down what I think of the mechanical speculation possibilities. This is stream of consciousness as I didn't really put much thought into the mechanics (or anything at all really lel) of the last Haunted Village game I played (which was also my first game with norskee funnily enough). The objective at the moment isn't determining what the setup is, just if it's wise to proceed with speculation.
So the things WE know is the SCUM know TOWN's roles, and we know SCUM's roles. Scum would pick roles that are counterplay to whatever town has.
we know scum picked banshee, witch, and vampire (non-consec strongman, rolecop, RB). That means scum used 5 points for their roles, meaning town has 8-9 points worth of roles. strongman implies kill stopping roles, and roleblocker implies a good amount of town PRs. honestly the whole scum roleset seems based around there being a ton of PRs. I won't give any suggestion to what they might be, and I think it's not a good idea to speculate on it further. That's my say on the matter. Now to try to read the game so far.

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

I like exorcists so far, I think they have an eagerness to progress through low information phase and past that's plus town.

I'm inclined to agree

Town pings on Tayl0r because she feels at ease in her early posting.

so maf have rolecop, roleblocker and non consecutive strongman. thats 5 so we must have 8
I don't wanna speculate on prs this early but I have a suspicion of 1 existing due to the mafia picking a strongman
ahh people beat me to it
ill toss this here for now
VOTE: murdercat

I dislike this because stating PlusJOYED doesn't want to speculate on prs directly contradicts the following statement of suspecting one exists due to there being a strongman. It doesn't take a genius to work that one out, so the former seems written more for appearances.

VOTE: PlusJOYED

-Lance

I see what you're saying about PJ but it seems a bit lacking in real sense. His spec was not very intensive, all he said was "there's probably a PR", which I sorta said even stronger in my breakdown of the setup knowledge. My only concern is him honing in on the strongman.

actually im very nervous but fortunately no one seems to have noticed my scumslip. i feel like i covered it up pretty well.

Where is your scum-slip?

-Lance

11

i can see the setup spec maybe not helping that much. but i really cant see it hurting, and im a bit suspicious of those who are pushing back against it. this is info SCUM ALREADY HAS. lets level the playing field? for VTs it wont help much, but for PRs theyll know what other PRs are in the game, at the very least.

This cuts into why I think speculating is a BAD idea. I think we have a limited number of VTs to the point where the apparent gain isn't as strong as one might initially think.

Also I'm not impressed by BM's treatment of Tay so far.

So I think "misrep" is a stretch.

Ok, maybe a misinterp then (I think it's clear what Tayl0r was saying and I don't think it was justifying the discussion around the setup).

town points for MCat on this

This is odd but I actually have 0 clue on who scum could be, and I think taylor vs BM was NAI. I have some weak townreads though.

I don't really like this post, it feels like he is compelled to give a status update just cuz. I also think the xof thing is picking at nothing, xof doesn't play a lot these days

btw hi xof
-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

i found this a bit surprising, at this point i was feeling like i had like one and a half weak townread (exorcists and maaaybe murdercat) with a whole buncha people either being null or south of null (RanCan for stuff, BM with the questionable push, and xof/norwee feeling active-lurky)

Can you explain what you mean by active-lurky?

[Jewel Barons]

^ - Norwee

[Jewel Barons]

@Brassherald
VC soon?

- Norwee

[Jewel Barons]

Immediately paranoid of Noraa.

- Norwee

[Jewel Barons]

BM makes aggressive pushes as both alignments i think.

- Norwee

[Jewel Barons]

*siiiiiiiigh*

I can never tell who is scum

Eww~
Why isn't this slot eliminated yet?
VOTE: Noraa

- Norwee

[Jewel Barons]

Gamma idk what ur doing, but please tell me you see what i'm seeing.

- Norwee

[Jewel Barons]

back to this and oh boy there's more pages than I thought there were when looking at this from my main.

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

This cuts into why I think speculating is a BAD idea. I think we have a limited number of VTs to the point where the apparent gain isn't as strong as one might initially think.

Also I'm not impressed by BM's treatment of Tay so far.

This appears to be inconsistent. Will you explain yourself?

If you explain what is inconsistent, sure.

i don't like it either. it's like he's going for something that's safe to push even though from what i checked he's played with her a bunch and he should know messin around from her isn't a reason to think she's scum or whatever

I just think he's got some sort of compulsion to ruin every game Taylor is in.

Yeah I was kind of thinking that as well, but for the sake of the game I'm explicitly trying not to let that color my decision making.

I appreciate your mindset. Rather than try to exploit something that's not really a spew you decide to look past it.

I saw there were many hydras and that sounds funsies
so I came

Hello, I can be your friend, looks like everyone else doesn't want to : )

*snip* say no more. self meta is not valuable

Is it now?

Quotewalling a bunch of things you don't have alignment conclusions from comes from scum more than town. I thought she might have thought it was scummy and was hoping to argue with her about it but it just seems narraty.

Can you provide the evidence for this because that's not accurate imo

I’d be willing to consider the former. I think you are zooming too far in to a concrete box of “things town does”

Ninja-
There’s not even a wagon on you at this point. Why the fatalism?

I'm townreading Cobra Kai for this plus his post before this one

why are you already tunneling battle mage? It's page 10
I think that looks like an excuse to tunnel a town
I'd probably vote battle mage if they got gladiated with taylor

I don't really like this post. Seems a bit overeager to pick a side?

why are you already tunneling battle mage? It's page 10
I think that looks like an excuse to tunnel a town
I'd probably vote battle mage if they got gladiated with taylor

battle mage literally always tunnels me.

this is not true.

Is it, though?

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

I think its his normal play which is coolio and all but rn tunneling isnt gonna help us get a Taylor lim even if she is scum :/

ehhh disagree
if a tunnel nets a scum elim its a good tunnel

Not if it makes the game unfun. RadiantCowbells is the chief example of that point.

noraa *should* be easy to sort before long.

I agree with this tbh

I want to pull some OMGUSy shit on Isis rn cuz I dont agree with the reasoning behind voting me but I also feel like I tend to act weird in games where ik almost everyone cuz I tend to relax and just do whatever tf I want to and it feels less like a game of mafia and more like an episode of Noraa chats with friends

I kinda like this from Noraa

I explained why ur a scum lean.

I dont just vote my scum leans. I like taking my time

ok

Immediately paranoid of Noraa.

- Norwee

Why is this, my dear hydra partner?

Update: I no longer like hydras.

Starting to townread xofelf a little

who's throwing shade (are you talking about scumreading?)?

I feel like there were a couple of "yeah xofelf seems kinda suss but I'm gunna vote over here instead for now." I could go look for them but I felt like I saw that a couple times. It makes me suspicious of the people who were doing that more so than xofelf, but there is chance that they were posting that to setup a future bus if needed but don't want to vote there yet. But that's reading way too much into it. I'm voting there because I like inflating wagons.

Thinking this is a town post

rather xofelf made an excuse for you to defend you (i.e. anti-town rather than scum).

This wording angers me, not really for alignment based reasons but I just don't like how he immediately calls it an excuse

Gamma idk what ur doing, but please tell me you see what i'm seeing.

- Norwee

Sorry mate, but I don't see it.

I'd move my vote to a spot I agreed with more out of Norskee's SRs but he doesn't seem to have any rn (we don't really have a PT, it seems like we've decided to just talk in thread which will get messy if we're gonna disagree a lot) so I'll just vote Plus because I think Noraa raises some good points there and Plus seems to be trying to maintain positioning
VOTE: PlusJOYED

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

Omg Gamma, you were supposed to hold the fort. Now we got prodded arghhhhh.

[Jewel Barons]

^Norwee

Guess i gotta put in effort now Sigh.

[Jewel Barons]

i've already spoken a bit about jewels in 146/316 and like... norwee is giving me the same vibes he did when i was playing scum against him. like, the closest he has to a read is 394, which like. it's bad. granted, i don't know how to read gamma, but nothing he's done or posted so far is like, jumping out at me or saying ~town~, so.

my current hot take: VOTE: jewel barons

-tisi

Oh, i noticed this vote.
So you're basing it just on me not having reads and saying that's my scum meta? Cus i was really just planing to derp around while Gamma did most of the posting.

[Jewel Barons]

..........put that in ur pt or disc please

But he never posts there, and he made the password to this account the LONGEST thing ever so i have to check my notes to remember it everytime.
GAMMMAAAAA~

- Norwee

[Jewel Barons]

We did set up a discord btw.

- Norwee

[Jewel Barons]

Have you not played with or in a hydra before?

Only once forever ago. And that game was a huge bastard mess that ended in like D2 or something so i barely even used the hydra PT given.

- Norwee

[Jewel Barons]

I can't really bring concrete examples because ongoing game yada yada, but Noraa scum meta is definitely spammy.

- Norwee

[Jewel Barons]

im spammy every game. y'all got nothing on me there.

Can you show examples of town!you spamming?

- Norwee

[Jewel Barons]

Hi I'm still here, I just don't really have a good system for handling logging into the hydra rn, it's either incognito tabs or switching between rn
I'm gonna try not to flake out entirely though, if I do have serious issues with being able to post I'll just pull myself out (this doesn't break the discussing replacements rule right?)

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

I-
Gamma why u gotta bully me
but also don't reply to a post if ur only gonna say "is it now" cuz that could lean either way and is rather confusing when trying to read u. Instead of "is it now" just say "I disagree" or "I agree"

The entire point of that was to get your goat though, as I know you self-meta a lot yourself, so you were either being ironic or had a lapse of self-awareness
and I think self-meta is generally useless, but it can be useful to see how self-aware someone is ,like, if they overlook one of their tells, that means it's probably still reliable. The key is probably to pay attention to what isn't said.

That's wifom. Scum can fakeclaim doc after picking that role.

Quoting what I think is the best example, but I like the level of skepticism Dunnstral is having rn

Should anyone wish to get a PT, I will give it to them, I just assumed that the hydras would use discord.... and am lazy.

my partner also assumed we'd use discord fyi, which was kinda funny because this was one of the few hydras I've made even close recently that wasn't organized over discord

The question isn't really if it *could be* fake, the question is would scum gamma think to fake it?

I'll hold off on this but I know someone in this game will have an opinion on this

I find it interesting that Plus's readlist has exactly 3 scum and most everyone else is town. I'm not sure what to make of it yet, but I wanted to being that up for discussion. It might be a bit, crafted?

Is that scummy for PJ in particular? I tried to apply this as a general tell rather than a personal one in a recent game and it was a hard miss. The last time I'd applied it before that was a personal read and it was accurate, so think that's how it should be used.

VOTE: PlusJOYED

I think I'd rather be voting with Dunnstral, Gamma, and Noraa than Plus, Taylor, and Isis right now

Also I think xofelf has been fine and that Plus readlist just seems a bit off to me.

Particular reason you don't want to vote anywhere else? I don't think we're at the point where consolidation is critical yet, are we?

VOTE: PlusJOYED

I think I'd rather be voting with Dunnstral, Gamma, and Noraa than Plus, Taylor, and Isis right now

Also I think xofelf has been fine and that Plus readlist just seems a bit off to me.

what is with these wagonomics?
i dont like this post at all. You've been wagon hopping really hard. Like your voting not who you think is scum, but voting who you think is more towny to sheep with. Like it's hard to see this play coming from town.

While this gets some parts wrong I do think the focus on wagon value was a little shady

I could see PJ and MCat as scum together rn fyi

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

plus lets start a counterwagon on dunnstral

VOTE: dunnstral

how about no

Can you provide the evidence for this because that's not accurate imo

Bold move to include this in a hedgy quotewall.
Locke13 in Death List, gobbledygook in Flying Scumsman, me, in like, certain cases, Flying Scumsman actually lol. This is definitely something that's empirical and not something I figured should be theoretically true and started looking for in games.

I am aware of the irony.
But for real, while I feel like my catchups tend to end up less salient when I'm scum, I also just have that fluffy urge to provide snarky commentary as both alignments (maybe I should have a review show lol). It doesn't matter what format I use to catch up, it just happens. The main thing I try to do, at least these days, is make it so the commentary is peppered into other posts with actual content, rather than just alone.

Plus' posting on page 20 is awful and he deserves the votes he has

501 does not seem towny to me at all

But I know it is very egg-on-face if I don't sort that town and should be able to

I feel like I have been mad at players like that as scum moreso than town because as town it seems like it could be weak scumplay that is more forgivable.

I can kinda understand this perspective and I also recall not liking some of what I have seen of Noraa from skimming on my main
But I think Noraa isn't really frustrated as much as bothered by how PJ is just not acting according to reason, I think Noraa tries to be logical and assumes others would try to do the same, so seeing someone act outside her worldview upsets her

VOTE: Cobra Kai

This slot has done worse than nothing.

Reason you felt like doing this when you did?

501 does not seem towny to me at all

But I know it is very egg-on-face if I don't sort that town and should be able to

I feel like I have been mad at players like that as scum moreso than town because as town it seems like it could be weak scumplay that is more forgivable.

Fair enough, what specifically stuck out to me was "you couldn't explain a TR that should be pretty easy to explain to murder" which makes me think Noraa has been tracking this stuff and is genuinely feeling frustration.

Oversoul van be my ride or die homey

The frustration from the HH slot also feels somewhat genuine

Scum can experience genuine frustration
Scum can experience genuine frustration
Scum can experience genuine frustration
Scum can experience genuine frustration
Scum can experience genuine frustration

This quote has always stuck with me and the author is around :3

Is this an invitation to speak? Doesn't matter because when you addressed me I was gonna do it anyway.
As already stated, Noraa's mood seems more like being rattled over frustration.

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

on page 22, noticed a lot of people pushing Dunn, I think he's made some commentary I don't think he would have made at this point as scum
I think scumStral tends to be a bit more sideliney

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

noraa flipped like 3 times in a monolgue

except one was an accidental selfvote rofl

VOTE: Cobra Kai

This slot has done worse than nothing.

It’s not badass to spam the thread. It is the be a man of few words, because those words get listened to.

Cobra Kai never dies.

I'm gonna cringe a lot at this person's posts, aren't I?

Joyed and datisi hydra

Not sure on scumreads. Was planning to reread at some point. Nothing is standing out as overtly scummy- I don’t particularly understand why joyed or Noraa are the leading wagons presently. Feels TvT.

Battle mage and Taylor

Not sure at this point in time.

That TvT read seems like an easy opinion to give. Why do you say it?

I rescind my earlier thoughts, I no longer think this is TvT.

If you look at +joyed’s iso noraa is the only scumread he won’t explain and he’s said multiple times why he can’t. This hyberbolic explanation shows Noraa cares more about eliminating him than trying to understand and read him.

He had explained scumreads on multiple others.

Just because you took it back doesn't mean I don't still want it explained.

I still think Taylor is scum.

I don't think I've seen a single thing about your Taylor read that hasn't amounted to what feel like personal/playstyle issues. I'm not impressed with her posts myself but you've done a poor job making her a compelling vote.

The problem is that if isis ever flips green this game, I will immediately think you were setting up chain lynches here

particular reason you only mentioned Isis? That would still probably come off the same way if you flip green first.

I think "setting up chain lynches" is a little too conspiratorial. That's something I've seen feared since the dawn of time, but I've never gone into a scum PT afterwards and found out that scum actually set up an X or Y fully expecting to ruin two days with it.

Gesturing at a pair of players and saying you think there's at least one scum in there somewhere and picking one to try and see hasn't ever been a method I've ever found very strong, though.

wow the pedits

i can say from personal experience, i have done that as scum.

you're probably right on the latter.

I feel like if you legitimately catch scum doing this, it's because they did a poor job. I agree with BM later in the page where he said it is a subtle thing.

Joyed and datisi hydra

Not sure on scumreads. Was planning to reread at some point. Nothing is standing out as overtly scummy- I don’t particularly understand why joyed or Noraa are the leading wagons presently. Feels TvT.

Battle mage and Taylor

Not sure at this point in time.

This is actually such a bad answer to murder's question.

I was intrigued by this actually, but I don't think you developed it?
Digame enemiga

what's with the text garbage on the second line?

To clarify, I changed my avatar because I requested an avatar in a speakeasy thread. I figured I needed to change it to show the person who chose it for me that he didn't waste his time

I’m playing this game how I want to. If you want to eliminate me for it then that’s on you guys and I’m not taking blame for it.

I was asked off the cuff quick fire questions and answered off the cuff and quick fire.

I think this response was pretty good actually

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

noticed after hitting submit I hadn't responded to that last Noraa quote
you surely confused me. I also will be opting out because I do like being an anime vegetable rn, and if I were to change my avatar it would be to a guy character I already have in mind.

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

re 334: the reason i asked is because the "there could be scum on this wagon i guess lol bc wagon fast" in very early stages of the game with nothing else pointing at is like. weaksauce and p easy to post as scum, especially if you don't say who and like, do nothing about your "read" there

Was this a mistake in the post you linked? Or am I just not following the conversation that well?

it's fine to post "I scumread X player and am not going to say why due to the ongoing games rule" btw. Just not more

Very glad to get a listmod's view on this.

Don't use ongoing games as the basis for your read then hint vaguely at it in the game thread while never explaining anything, it NEVER goes well for you

ah he can't explain because its ongoing?
that's bullshit. ongoing = no reason at all.
ongoing also = easy way to make it seem like ur solving when ur fucking not.

What made you feel so strongly about this?

-GAMMA

@Present!Cobra Kai: thanks, that is actually a fair call to have made if you're viewing it without trying to judge it too hard, I agree those tend to end up as TvT.
btw how experienced is your main? Just curious since I had the thought while writing that last bit.

[Jewel Barons]

VOTE: noraa

thats where im voting to save myself btw

there's no pressure on you tho

i've already spoken a bit about jewels in 146/316 and like... norwee is giving me the same vibes he did when i was playing scum against him. like, the closest he has to a read is 394, which like. it's bad. granted, i don't know how to read gamma, but nothing he's done or posted so far is like, jumping out at me or saying ~town~, so.

my current hot take: VOTE: jewel barons

-tisi

I'm aware this probably doesn't do us any favors with you but on discord nor has told me he's had some difficulty forming reads and he'll probably just let me solve the game

Plus is on v/la. Isis was literally here yesterday. People have lives that aren’t this game. Besides there are three people with more time away than them.

I'm glad you are mindful of that sort of thing. Yesterday I couldn't have really posted here even if I wanted to because I was so occupied with a few other games I had devoted myself to handling as soon as I could, and most of my free time was already being consumed by other things. This was meant as a bit of a rant but also kinda serves as an unwarranted explanation?

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

Okay so on the things Nor talked about regarding our discord comms, I kinda also hadn't logged into discord for a few days, my day-to-day recently has been kinda packed with stuff so some things end up falling off when I don't mean for them to

Okay hi sorry, will be doing catch up cuz I remember that there were some things directly asked my way that I'll get back to. But the one I remember is I was asked a bit about why I felt what I did about Gamma. Most of the games I've played this year he's been in. And I don't think he's been scum so far? So I can't say I know what that looks like, but town Gamma often flakes a bit, and responds almost to every post with a running tally of this thoughts. Maybe he does that as scum too, but it's what he does. And his reasonings for his thoughts seem consistent with what I expect from him. That's... really it? Sometimes in his catch up thoughts posts, he's brought back stuff from pages ago that people forgot or didn't exactly put as much thought into, and I kind of enjoy that? He just also tends to have to do life shit and prod dodges a lot and has a good amount of pages to do catch up with. So he's acting exactly the way I expect him to. I don't know anything about NorwEE.

I was scum in Mainstream Mafia II but that was it unless I missed a game. When it comes to catching up, as previously stated I tend to do it similarly as both alignments but as scum I would say I fluffpost during it more than as town. The one other thing I'll point out is I feel like I tend to enjoy it more as town, and have a higher tendency of just saying "screw it" to catching up due to thread size partly through as scum.

I already stated why plus' SR on me is unreasonable. I don't understand why I cannot discredit something that absolutely deserves zero credit.

Yeah I have noticed even as town I will aim to discredit arguments I think are bad, and that gets me scumread a lot I think.

I can't really bring concrete examples because ongoing game yada yada, but Noraa scum meta is definitely spammy.

- Norwee

I can!
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=84310
She made 200+ posts in Days 5 and 6. So yeah, she spammy.

@Datisi- I’m experienced. I’m townreading you because I’ve seen you play scum, frankly.

Reread will hopefully come tonight or tomorrow. Depends when I get off work.

I’m not playing guess the alt and am intentionally disguising my go to phrases.

Always makes me laugh when people create a brand-new alt account to play a game, and then want to claim they have loads of experience.

Yeah this is why I pretty much never attempt to use secret alts, on top of just having a very unique style, as evidenced by the one time I

did

try.

[Jewel Barons]

^ -GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

were you in a scum game of mine or a town game? I won't ask username since u made an alt, ur clearly not fine with just telling me. I advise you not use meta on me as all of my games so far have been really really different. My 2 town games are vastly different and my 3 scum games are really different from each other as well.

hmmm ive definitely picked up on some tells from you that have been consistent. and you havent done any of your town tells this game.

My opinion on Noraa is kinda up in the air, some things I've seen have bothered me but others actually looked all right. I think just through the flow of things she's felt more towny though. So I don't expect to push too hard against a Noraa wagon but I also don't see myself voting her over other slots.

I’m done engaging with you over this it’s only inflating the post count. Nothing you have done has changed my read on you- all you’ve done is try to force me to change my view instead of try to understand mine.

If anyone needs me give me a shout.

The world needs more players like you.

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

I wasn't aware xof's pronouns changed, I'll do my best to remember but I can't guarantee anything

-GAMMA

Why is it always the mods/pseudo-mods who I end up with this issue on now

[Jewel Barons]

particular reason you only mentioned Isis? That would still probably come off the same way if you flip green first.

I'd be dead then.

Could be finding something in nothing, but it just bothers me that you said it the way you did, it seems like you're trying to scare BM off.

Join date before yours but after BM, gamma. A good chunk of games.

If I wanted to I could get a good sample of who this might be, but given a) you haven't pissed me off, which is what

generally

drives me to alt-hunt, and b) you seem genuinely interested in remaining secret, I won't.

Particular reason you don't want to vote anywhere else? I don't think we're at the point where consolidation is critical yet, are we?

No, just trying to make things happen

That seems fair, though you also switched votes quite soon after?

Reason you felt like doing this when you did?

It's getting close to do a D1 reread time so I'm trying to get more out of some lurky slots

Is rereading D1 something you always do?

on page 22, noticed a lot of people pushing Dunn, I think he's made some commentary I don't think he would have made at this point as scum
I think scumStral tends to be a bit more sideliney

-GAMMA

This is interesting because I would consider Dunn to be sideliney this game

Lurky yes, but his posting has expressed some pretty substantial opinions I don't think scumStral posts at that stage of the game

What is your read on me presently, MCat?

Ninja-
Whatever you say.

I am glad you are contributing. I think your posts are vaguely towny, but I'm not convinced they are town in a way that can't be faked.

Right now I am feeling like the narwhal really quieted down after early pressure and has been absent

I think the fact Cobra hasn't really tried to establish a lot of thread presence is +town for them rn

Plus' posting on page 20 is awful and he deserves the votes he has

Could you quote one or two posts with why? The only complaint I remember is Noraa wanting people to not develop scumreads that are brickwalled by the ongoing games rule, but I think that's a legitimate thing that happens. I haven't been rereading much this game so I might have missed a more salient point.

Is this an invitation to speak?

Not a very serious thing, just haven't gotten to play with you since the fun of pocketing you in Scumsman, so hi :3

what's with the text garbage on the second line?

It's "tell me, enemy", in spanish, since Noraa said we are not amigas, but interestingly the word for enemy in Spanish is similar to the one for friend, isn't it neat?

I'll pull up the PJ posts I didn't like in a sec, but part of it was due to his SR on Noraa that he wouldn't explain, which is at least

justified

now, so I think the feeling will be a little weaker on review. It's a good thing you asked though or I likely wouldn't have bothered to measure the change myself.
IMO you pocketing me didn't count because the game was abandoned
I was aware the terms for friendly and unfriendly were similar in Spanish but not friend and enemy as well. Probably should have figured out "tell me", though.

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

do you not TR ego? Honestly his whole iso felt towny. If you insist I can pick some but I'd rather not put in the effort since theres no pressure on ego.

another flaw in your idea is that it's a bad idea to draw more attention to myself with say a readlist if I'm being pressured. If I was scum, I'd lurk and have my partners cause a distraction to derail my wagon.

I don't like the way the self-meta is presented here. Might just be personal taste but it seems like something he'd very easily be able to lie about.

I still don't think your push comes from town

Okay so looking back on things Noraa is right to call PJ's leaning on ongoing meta "hiding behind site rules", because she refuted him pretty soundly and then he resorts to this sort of "lalala I can't hear you" posting

I honestly thought there were more Plus posts than there were but I'm the same amount of offset by it, if not more.

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

What are you referring to when you say thread presence, gamma?

I mean you're active but you're not trying to make everyone acknowledge you are being active. You march to your own beat.

Could be finding something in nothing, but it just bothers me that you said it the way you did, it seems like you're trying to scare BM off.

I don't understand this but you do you.

I can explain better I think. Your post essentially came off as, "I'm going to scumread you", not, "this will be a bad look if Isis flips town". It's a little self-centered, which isn't scummy, but isn't really a good move imo, as I feel that would probably set BM against you more?

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

That seems fair, though you also switched votes quite soon after?

I would argue that was a good switch as cobra is much more active now

I could very easily go back to lurking. I’m posting because I want to.

Yeah I don't really see it as your vote pressured Cobra into posting, MCat

Okay so looking back on things Noraa is right to call PJ's leaning on ongoing meta "hiding behind site rules", because she refuted him pretty soundly and then he resorts to this sort of "lalala I can't hear you" posting

someone finally understands why I'm so annoyed by that?

What I don't get it why it warrants a scum read from Noraa

Well it's clearly not the entire read
And to talk on Noraa's response to me that is nested in there, yeah I did have that thought of, "so that's what Noraa was talking about!"

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

Isis come talk to me about this? Are we seeing the same things?

you make a case on me, and care more about engaging Isis on it than me? interesting...

Why would you expect someone to opt to engage a scumread over a non-scumread?

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

This game feels like it is going nowhere fast. We have 3 days left. Need to see more from xof and Dunn.

Scum is probably just coasting because town is being lazy. I posted a case on BM. Can people please either engage with it or make a new case?

Gamma please come help me out here

I see some of what you’re saying on BM but I don’t feel it’s as strong a case as I think you do

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

I’ll get back to reading in a second but I’m curious about the fact Infinity hasn’t interacted with or addressed me yet seeing as he’s got a very good rate of reading me

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

BM could you summarize the reason for your current scumreads?

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

be open to the possibility of being wrong.

I think you’re asking for something you’re not really giving yourself here

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

Isis come talk to me about this? Are we seeing the same things?

you make a case on me, and care more about engaging Isis on it than me? interesting...

Why would you expect someone to opt to engage a scumread over a non-scumread?

-GAMMA

Eh to me that's just common sense. If I'm actually playing properly and trying (which admittedly, isn't always), I want to engage with my scumreads the most to either:

A. Confirm to myself and others that they are scum.
B. Give them the opportunity to convince me that I was wrong and they are town.

I can’t really say for certain if MCat feels the same way as you do, but I can say it seemed more like he wanted the second opinion from someone he trusted.

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

Gamma - who are your top 2 scumreads?

Plus is definitely my top scumread but I can’t really say what my second strongest is rn. I’ve felt like MCat, Noraa, and you have been scummy at times.

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

In the inactives I think egotisi might be worthy of pressure, they shaded Nor at one point and haven’t responded to me when I addressed it

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

Gamma - who are your top 2 scumreads?

Plus is definitely my top scumread but I can’t really say what my second strongest is rn. I’ve felt like MCat, Noraa, and you have been scummy at times.

-GAMMA

that's news to me
why am i your top scumread?

mostly because I've felt like I've seen truly scummy things from you but on my other reads listed there I'm not sure about the pings I've gotten.

[Jewel Barons]

he also fails to provide reasons for his SRs and TRs

could you go over what makes you say this again? I think Cobra raised a good point about this earlier and didn't see anything about it from you

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

[egotisi, Taylor] is where I'd like to go today. Getting slight cold feet about Noraa, I guess.

The Alice-head is my favourite from the Exorcists

I like you too, Battle Mage.

—Alice

I will vote egotisi

Murdercat, not sure what you need from me. If you're not already thinking about voting me, you can decide on another elim without my input

VOTE: Egotisi

I glanced over the rest of the thread, Bm is still tunneling Taylor, tone can be either alignment, the rest of the posts in thread don't really matter. I agree that Murdercat looks like town

what do you have to say about the pressure on you?

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

I'm willing to roll with something like a {me, plus, isis, infinity, gamma} town block right now I think

Wow, explain your plus, isis, and gamma reads?

why are you challenging every single one except yourself and the person who posted that townblock?

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

ofc you "don't understand" what purpose my vote has when its literally on you. But if you are hinting that you are a vanity wagon, I don't understand why you are zoning in on me since there are 6 wagons rn and u can't possibility think only mine is a vanity?

ego is still catching up, and I literally just said their vote is scummy too. Jewel Barons' vote on plus wasn't a vanity vote until you moved off it. Only yours and ego's are vanity.

except I'm pretty sure the wagon on your slot was pretty sizeable around the time Noraa voted. Why are you pushing alternative facts, especially ones that seek to make others look worse?

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

you call me out for having SRs that are OMGUSy yet I don't see anything different from you.
In fact I am the first to SR the people I SRed so if anything they are the OMGUSy ones not me

This feels a little mixed up, just because you were the first out of anyone to suspect X player doesn't mean it's not OMGUS if they suspected you first.

-GAMMA

PEdit: even if Noraa was the first vote, a wagon did form on your slot, so calling it a vanity wagon now is vastly underselling how much the wagon on you mattered, I feel.

[Jewel Barons]

VOTE: egotisi
While I'm a bit skeptical of Infinity's motives currently, I also think we've kinda been stuck talking about a few slots and a wagon here shakes that up a bit.

-GAMMA

[Jewel Barons]

I will say it's a bit funky Noraa was looking for a compromise that early, but wagons are wagons, I had a 5 vote wagon form on me on the first couple pages of a 13p mini normal once, and iirc it generated some interesting data, though probably not accurately interpreted data.

-GAMMA