Open 809: Charge Me Up! [Over]

[DkKoba]

Not much to say right now.
I don't think T3's vote is scum-indicative; we need to get an elim in.

Andante technically should be roleclaiming but I struggle to see it mattering.

I don’t like this post. Assuming Andante is town, NDMath is kinda putting out a hopeless vibe. He should have either been wagoning or pushing Andante harder or trying to find someone else who could have been elimmed. The shade of T3 is also horrible.

VOTE: NDMath

VOTE: NDMath

in my PoE too

[DkKoba]

Gonna setup for critical role and check back at break. Will catch up more later but PoE pool is ND/Flow/yes/A50 would do any of those atm.

Pedit:

Will catch up more later but cool.

Any parts you wanna recommend? I just skimmed where A wagon turned to T3. Trying to find the how that happened so fast.

scum wanted to push thru a LHF wagon despite my yelling that the slot was very clearly town(to me)

[DkKoba]

would you believe me if i said i havent even bothered to read any of yes the whole game because i havent particularly felt need to focus there at all

[DkKoba]

[DkKoba]

no there isn't - alignment was randed before we even got roles - setup explicitly says this.

I have a thought here not sure I can say it so just leaving this here to see who reads me and pokes me after the mod gets back to me.

id avoid the thoughts about you know what its best not to get modkilled lol

[DkKoba]

VOTE: lukewarm

for the lukewarm takes

Koba please tell me you’re not scum.

Pushing you sucks :/

You’re really feeling scummy when I read this.

take a gander at which post number it is

[DkKoba]

oh wow I thought i posted here recently -

hi i still think ndmath is scum and the best elim today

[DkKoba]

a50 is pretty flaky as scum yeah.

[DkKoba]

them replacing in kinda made me lose motivation actually, i dont really like them on a personal level but i will play this through

[DkKoba]

oh right we have 2 maths here now - ndmath is my scumread, i like mathblade so far

[DkKoba]

I had the opposite impression. Can you quote what lines stood out to u as town?

[DkKoba]

I think NDmath's posts are pretty surface level, which is indicative of them being scum to me. thats how they played when I was scum with them in a mini normal (they flaked out)

[DkKoba]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84723 (not to lowkey flex my scum win heh)

[DkKoba]

yeah thats really shallow for ndmath here. he doesnt like playing scum too much and was not so motivated when i played with him.

[DkKoba]

we have to remember that aloofness is an easy to fake scum tactic.

[DkKoba]

ok, but why are you ignoring dmg/almost50?

I'm not - I explicitly said I thought the slot was scummy too.

[DkKoba]

VOTE: ndmath

Why nd?

Why ndt?

I'm following DK cause it will get me TRed by them

this doesnt actually make sense because your pocket in our last game was how I caught you ...

i dont believe u randed scum here trying the same strategy twice... right?

[DkKoba]

lol ok all good, I read this recent post first and was like, uhhh Almost50?? ahh you're voting them, all good!! and when he flips scum... flow/koba definitely has 1 cause they're trying to get ndmath first..

have you considered they are both scum?

you can push there, I'll keep pushing here. I wanna see how the wagons move.

[DkKoba]

NDmath, almost50, and save the dragons makes sense as a scum team to me, especially if yesiree were to flip today as green

[DkKoba]

NDmath, almost50, and save the dragons makes sense as a scum team to me, especially if yesiree were to flip today as green

NDmath looks like genuine game solving to me?

How is it genuine?

[DkKoba]

Robert and Koba are reading as partners to me

How

[DkKoba]

im seeing increasing amounts of shade
Also sorry u really dont get to push me as scum when i was literally hard pushing elim away from t3 d1

[DkKoba]

"hi im sus"

also, I see no chance people get A50 today even though he screams scum... so whatever, I'll go with whatever yall are doing

I was a potential vote there.

[DkKoba]

STD is town

why

[DkKoba]

u know what i think i know why u think so but thats bad logic and thats my reply to that

[DkKoba]

since we have under 48 hours i will consolidate

VOTE: A50

[DkKoba]

Almost50 can go tomorrow

oh?

on god?

what happened huh?

[DkKoba]

if yesiree flips town im unclearing andante and believing more that flow is the one who got desperado'd bc NM played against scum flow recently and we were scumreading him here too

[DkKoba]

if yesiree flips town im unclearing andante and believing more that flow is the one who got desperado'd bc NM played against scum flow recently and we were scumreading him here too

Nah Andante is town and will be the scum kill tonight.

if andante dies tonight i will retract that but i just cant vibe with how they are playing here.

[DkKoba]

VOTE: A50

dunno how to feel about this vote :/

[DkKoba]

mathblade and I are clear ty

[DkKoba]

mathblade and I are clear ty

VOTE: dkkoba

I'm 1-Shot Watcher, koba was the only visitor lol.

I'd imagine that {Robert, Yes, Flea} is the gamewinning poe since two bussers could have easily instead got yes or me elim'd yesterday.

lmao are you really trying to trade here?

[DkKoba]

What really damns Koba is they disappeared.

We know they were online from trying to clear me.

Makes the ND+Koba combo viable here if it’s intentional

i was watching anime

[DkKoba]

there is no universe in which i target flow here - like literally ndmath prob realized it doesnt look good for him or its like some stupid ass gambit and they're going to correct the result in a second.

[DkKoba]

also if ndmath wants to hardclaim, cool, but we aren't speedvoting me here because I am town and i want to use the discussion time.

[DkKoba]

yes my plan as scum is to a)try to divert a wagon on d1 on town b) help push a wagon away from probable town onto scum that ended up scumslipping, and also not explaining the way the setup works in scum pt

[DkKoba]

also if ndmath wants to hardclaim, cool, but we aren't speedvoting me here because I am town and i want to use the discussion time.

You should be claiming.

I don't frankly need to actually unless ndmath wants to hardclaim or retract their claim.

[DkKoba]

I mean we literally said watchers on flow.

What happened with that?

Imagine I am Koba.
I read the thread ...Hmmm watcher on flow.
Yeah I will have the least scumread player of our team kill flow.

I don’t see how scum kills flow here unless it’s intentional

I also don’t see a world where one of them is not scum.

So I am paranoid of a gambit where both are scum.

this is ridiculous moon logic can you stop with this?

[DkKoba]

also if ndmath wants to hardclaim, cool, but we aren't speedvoting me here because I am town and i want to use the discussion time.

You should be claiming.

I don't frankly need to actually unless ndmath wants to hardclaim or retract their claim.

1 shot watcher sounds like a hard claim to me Koba.

So yes pretty sure you need to claim

I know that result is fake so I'm asking NDmath to hardclaim their result.

[DkKoba]

oh wait mathblade, you totally forgot, i'm totally the one leading the kill here as scum!!

yes 100%


me over anyone else here that is my theoretical scum partner here.

i cant believe you didnt have doubt over this claim and rather just immediately went into "what if this is svs?"

[DkKoba]

What really damns Koba is they disappeared.

We know they were online from trying to clear me.

Makes the ND+Koba combo viable here if it’s intentional

I'm confused what of this makes you think S/S.

also if ndmath wants to hardclaim, cool, but we aren't speedvoting me here because I am town and i want to use the discussion time.

Yes it's a hardclaim

lmao ok then u can die tomorrow. Let's extend this day and sees who taps out because I know its you whos gonna be obvious by the end trying their hardest to seem genuine and not antispew ((((:

[DkKoba]

What really damns Koba is they disappeared.

We know they were online from trying to clear me.

Makes the ND+Koba combo viable here if it’s intentional

I'm confused what of this makes you think S/S.

also if ndmath wants to hardclaim, cool, but we aren't speedvoting me here because I am town and i want to use the discussion time.

Yes it's a hardclaim

Because I don’t see why Koba scum kills someone being watched

shhh make it seem like they have a chance to see if they end up spewing some teammates.

poor them shouldn't have confirmed themselves 100% scum from my pov.


now i can hunt for your partner without having to guess both

[DkKoba]

oh wait mathblade, you totally forgot, i'm totally the one leading the kill here as scum!!

yes 100%


me over anyone else here that is my theoretical scum partner here.

i cant believe you didnt have doubt over this claim and rather just immediately went into "what if this is svs?"

I did and still do actually.

I said either neither made sense.

Koba claim

that can be a surprise later - if you're gonna rush my elimination here then you're playing anti-town because we ASBSOLUTELY should take the time to talk when we have a nice old 50/50 going on here.

also my claim doesnt matter here - its either me or ndmath. im not gonna pretend like you think a claim is gonna make me more "credible" when scum were able to easily get their own PR roles clearly

[DkKoba]

What really damns Koba is they disappeared.

We know they were online from trying to clear me.

Makes the ND+Koba combo viable here if it’s intentional

I'm confused what of this makes you think S/S.

also if ndmath wants to hardclaim, cool, but we aren't speedvoting me here because I am town and i want to use the discussion time.

Yes it's a hardclaim

Because I don’t see why Koba scum kills someone being watched

I means from scumteam's perspective odds are there isn't a watcher. Koba probably thought they could still force an elim on andante or something.

who's my partner?

[DkKoba]

What really damns Koba is they disappeared.

We know they were online from trying to clear me.

Makes the ND+Koba combo viable here if it’s intentional

I'm confused what of this makes you think S/S.

also if ndmath wants to hardclaim, cool, but we aren't speedvoting me here because I am town and i want to use the discussion time.

Yes it's a hardclaim

Because I don’t see why Koba scum kills someone being watched

shhh make it seem like they have a chance to see if they end up spewing some teammates.

poor them shouldn't have confirmed themselves 100% scum from my pov.


now i can hunt for your partner without having to guess both

I can’t have a partner lol

i forgot halfway which math i was responding to lmao

[DkKoba]

nahh but ndmath really thought that he could frame me as:

leading kill

killing flow trap

not killing mathblade

like no?

[DkKoba]

oh wait mathblade, you totally forgot, i'm totally the one leading the kill here as scum!!

yes 100%


me over anyone else here that is my theoretical scum partner here.

i cant believe you didnt have doubt over this claim and rather just immediately went into "what if this is svs?"

I did and still do actually.

I said either neither made sense.

Koba claim

that can be a surprise later - if you're gonna rush my elimination here then you're playing anti-town because we ASBSOLUTELY should take the time to talk when we have a nice old 50/50 going on here.

also my claim doesnt matter here - its either me or ndmath. im not gonna pretend like you think a claim is gonna make me more "credible" when scum were able to easily get their own PR roles clearly

I am actually trying to prevent your speed elim and sort you both

my claim is Town and that is all that needs to be said. I'm not here to please and i won't be forced a claim out of scum framing me ever.

[DkKoba]

ndmath immediately opening with a guilty is already scum indicative - town ndmath 100% hides the result and waits.


so yesiree is spewed town from this ->mathblade is town bc being leading vote on a50 wagon->andante also similarly double clear from notmafia desperado+d2 push onto a50+being pushed by ndmath d1->vfp very likely town for voting ndmath counterwagon while it was hot.

[DkKoba]

nahh but ndmath really thought that he could frame me as:

leading kill

killing flow trap

not killing mathblade

like no?

You as scum don’t kill me.
You had me pocketed after you first pinged me.
I agree scum you doesn’t kill flow unless it’s a gambit or you’re having a really off day

you're inspiring town here and solving and have certain gates of logic that mean you would be the greatest threat to me at this boardstate.

[DkKoba]

let me check grandpamo's legacy reads again

[DkKoba]

remember how i said i was fine with nolim because we have evens?

yeah that still applies.

yeah, no elim, desperado and scum shoot and we're back on even...

look at you softing shhh

Midnight desperado who? idk how Grandpa died n1.... shhhhhhh

okay at this point, i think im dying night one lmfao so i wanna continue my legacy for a sec.


town i think we win by this gamesolve voting pattern T3 >>> Flea >>> Not Mafia >>> DMG >>> Yessir >>> STD >>> Art

I think there is scum between DMG and Yessir.

This assumes Koba, Flow, Andante, and Moz are town.

i guess they had DMG right

[DkKoba]

nahh but ndmath really thought that he could frame me as:

leading kill

killing flow trap

not killing mathblade

like no?

You as scum don’t kill me.
You had me pocketed after you first pinged me.
I agree scum you doesn’t kill flow unless it’s a gambit or you’re having a really off day

you're inspiring town here and solving and have certain gates of logic that mean you would be the greatest threat to me at this boardstate.

I’m flattered. Now I have to do one as Koba scum ND town and you ducked up and are gonna kill me
Or bad Nd+Koba gambit
Or ND+? Failure

nah im def town here - still gonna be solving with the knowledge of my pov having 1 scum confirmed - grandpamo couldn't have only caught 1 scum? + why kill someone who is townreading me there that would be easy to pocket that only scumreads 1 of my partners? (this shows the svs gambit situation is not likely) - but regardless even if you were to assume i am the scum in the equation, there would be most definitely 2 scum in that list grandpa made right"?

[DkKoba]

the townblock is 100% pure because they wouldnt need to resort to a fake guilty if there was a deepwolf here - thus why the random guilty needed to be pulled.

[DkKoba]

in order to shoot into townblock an extra time at the expense of 1 scum and keeping the poe large

[DkKoba]

I haven’t heard a reason you shouldn’t be claiming here.

You said after it’s a hard claim and it is.

eh i was gonna fakeclaim but im VT - in the grand scheme of this like it doesn't matter - id have rather had an ambiguous claim because clearly ndmath is saying im 100% scum from their pov regardless of my role so either im scum or they are scum

[DkKoba]

Why claim a PR d1?

because its wifom to get scum to shoot me?

ofc imma hypo pr.

[DkKoba]

we can really like abandon the deepwolf idea, like i said, scum nd throwing themselves into the townblock = them keeping PoE further open.

it means the PoE is effective atm and we should be following it.

[DkKoba]

i actually want to reread robert because i actually realized i kinda have noticed their existence in this game but not really anything they've said.

[DkKoba]

I probably die tonight if Koba is scum

not the cleared watcher? OH WAIT!!! MY DESPERADO KILL!!!!

what watcher is cleared?

[DkKoba]

oh right we have 2 maths here now - ndmath is my scumread, i like mathblade so far

I concur.

I read Flea's all-over-the-place long posts. Flea is wrong about me so I'm skeptical of the other comments.

One thing that jumped at me is that Flea tries to massage KdKoba's ego, like scum ingratiating themselves with a player they know to be town.

VOTE: ndmath

Why nd?

Why ndt?

I'm following DK cause it will get me TRed by them

but I think nd will flip town and Koba also fosses Almost50...

I'm really not seeing what you're seeing.

NDmath, almost50, and save the dragons makes sense as a scum team to me, especially if yesiree were to flip today as green

NDmath looks like genuine game solving to me?

VOTE: DkKoba

hold on hahahahhaa

[DkKoba]

mathblade i think it is robert actaully LOL

[DkKoba]

imma reread flea too

[DkKoba]

hey, sorry, been extremely busy with IRL stuff, still am, but I should have more time tonight and over the weekend

no worries. we are taking our time here now

[DkKoba]

hold on hahahahhaa

none of us are saying robert is towny, but how can we not sheep this watcher claim?

because we all have brains

[DkKoba]

i did not visit. they are CLAIMING i am the only visitor.

[DkKoba]

look - ndmath has been extremely shallow all game wrt reads.

this is like peak scum indicative for them and they know it.


unless you want to be like "oh koba TMI and played directly against their wincon"

[DkKoba]

see yall on D4. I'm done here

we're not rushing this day unless you are trying to say my input here is not valuable.

[DkKoba]

NDmath>Robert>STD should win the game no matter what

I think robert is the most incriminated based on how shitty their progression is on their partner, as soon as I'm pushing ND, robert popped in and tried to shade me, forgetting they were agreeing with my worldview just a few posts ago.

[DkKoba]

Scum spew is always valuable. I never say no to it
And if you’re town it helps

nah dw, it's gonna be funny trying to see ndmath explain why they cannot share anything or discuss anything because they dont wanna spew anything

[DkKoba]

actually u know what lets take STD out of the PoE.

if robert is somehow town, flea should seal the deal.

didnt even realize how many basically clear people we have.


this is pretty much gg

[DkKoba]

see yall on D4. I'm done here

we're not rushing this day unless you are trying to say my input here is not valuable.

sorry, didn't mean to make you feel that way, I'm just like actually sad flow is out right now... idk why but I didn't expect them to die... I was having a great time with them lol as all yall know...

tis a shame that ndmath thought that scum!koba would ever kill there

[DkKoba]

I am kinda wondering if it’s ND+Andante.

nah, they were calling for A50's head pretty hard on d2 and were on the ndmath wagon before that.

[DkKoba]

plus likliest desperado shot etc

[DkKoba]

half me just wants to vote out blade then figure the game lol

they are towny too

[DkKoba]

see yall on D4. I'm done here

we're not rushing this day unless you are trying to say my input here is not valuable.

sorry, didn't mean to make you feel that way, I'm just like actually sad flow is out right now... idk why but I didn't expect them to die... I was having a great time with them lol as all yall know...

tis a shame that ndmath thought that scum!koba would ever kill there

I do think you would....



BLADE. I WAS CALLING A50 BEFORE THERE WAS EVEN A WAGON MY FRIEND.

no.. flow is objectively a bad kill

[DkKoba]

also why does scum!me kill grandpamo

[DkKoba]

i brought attention to DMG d1 and tried multiple times to hardpush them and then also helped push a50 d2( same slot)


its like unless you think i was suicidal there like cmon

[DkKoba]

i really think ndmath->robert solves the game - but if not it has to be flea?

[DkKoba]

see yall on D4. I'm done here

we're not rushing this day unless you are trying to say my input here is not valuable.

sorry, didn't mean to make you feel that way, I'm just like actually sad flow is out right now... idk why but I didn't expect them to die... I was having a great time with them lol as all yall know...

tis a shame that ndmath thought that scum!koba would ever kill there

I do think you would....



BLADE. I WAS CALLING A50 BEFORE THERE WAS EVEN A WAGON MY FRIEND.

no.. flow is objectively a bad kill

This. I don’t see Koba doing this kill.

What happened to shooting me A?

If I am scum I die, if not you die

id shoot you >andante>vfp and then maybe i would consider flow

[DkKoba]

VFP
Dk
Flow
Flea
Dragon
DMG
NM
Yessiree
Mini

Moz
Artemiana
Green

Lukewarm
ND

I think we just won regardless?

Lukewarm red flip adds Green to VFP block.
Lukewarm Green flip adds Green to scum

My D1 scum team though is
Lukewarm / ND / Artemiana

damn on point( saw this while scrolling flea's iso)

[DkKoba]

OMG WAIT. GRANDPA DIED... THEN FLOW.... 2/3 of the trio is dead.... see yall IRL tomorrow lmao I can't. blade is making me mad, my friends are literally dead here... so I can't just meme the day away... I'd flip yesiree today if people wanted to do that, if not, I'm fine with yeeting koba

u dont even want to consider if im innocent?

[DkKoba]

also like.. yesiree is already partialy spewed town and from my pov shes 100% spewed town so when you solve between ndmath+me it leads to them being cleared regardless so wasting a lim there is terrible

[DkKoba]

The Flea and Dragons interaction to me looks bad for flea because the accusation that dragons hadn't read the post was unfounded and there isn't a reason for town!flea to think that in the first place.

It was ultimately crossed wires, and I was of the view the post had been skimmed, not read.
Was it just that bit looking bad for me or more of it? because that's a pretty naff bit to just be worth calling out.

ok prob not partnered.

yeah i didnt think id get this comfortable early but like robert/ND look like the solve from my end here

[DkKoba]

also like.. yesiree is already partialy spewed town and from my pov shes 100% spewed town so when you solve between ndmath+me it leads to them being cleared regardless so wasting a lim there is terrible

just like you're 100% spewed town when I flip scum... right right I've heard this before

does occams razor ring a bell

[DkKoba]

regardless this is a bit of a lucky game.


ill still give the accused and others to give their input.

[DkKoba]

time*

[DkKoba]

the simplest explaination is oftentimes the right one.

[DkKoba]

just like u did in chess mafia?

[DkKoba]

Hey Koba...setup check me. Can scum get desperado?

i dont really wanna explain the reasons why its unlikely there are 2 desperados, but yes, mafia can be any role, even friendly neighbor, although the FN will send a red PM

[DkKoba]

NM's flip can help explain why andante having desperado is extremely unlikely

[DkKoba]

i didnt think of that

[DkKoba]

i mean if town wants to be smart they can elim ndmath first - its a trade off either way, and nd already claimed 1 shot so not like u expect them to give more results.

[DkKoba]

VOTE: DkKoba

I'll trade if ND is scum.
Dk is always the lim today but get anything.you need to off you're chests.

i mean do u townread me or do u townread ND - this is the question here.

there is no need to waste an elim on a floundering slot who decided to try to take me down with them since ive been pushing them since early on and already cased them based on the depth of their reads.

[DkKoba]

not on a floundering slot(

[DkKoba]

VOTE: DkKoba

I'll trade if ND is scum.
Dk is always the lim today but get anything.you need to off you're chests.

i mean do u townread me or do u townread ND - this is the question here.

there is no need to waste an elim on a floundering slot who decided to try to take me down with them since ive been pushing them since early on and already cased them based on the depth of their reads.

Before today you're town over ND.
However, I will always trade a town for scum in claims that aren't required. So I'm probably not the best person to try and convince here.

ND has no reason to call you out in particular. Its obvious that they are a Watcher (or if scum the team have a watcher). Unless CC I have lack of reason to dis believe it other than suspected to be the lim today. But that's down to end of comments yesterday.

I'll give the day a re read tomorrow though and see from there.

i mean like its clear what scum are trying to do and we can prevent them from widening PoE like they want to and keep it as narrow as we can lol

[DkKoba]

this is fun.

koba, it kind of looks like you're not scum reading me anymore, can you clarify why, or what changed?

also, can you tell me why you said this:

Only if DK is maf lul

why would i ever nk u as maf over literally everyone else here

because it was true

[DkKoba]

there is no redirector btw because a watcher has 0% chance of seeing me. ndmath claimed a false report and thats that.

[DkKoba]

robert's silence here is also deafening. they are one of the rushers on the wagon.

[DkKoba]

what about the first question i asked

Already quoted and answered in my reread sesh

[DkKoba]

You had an interaction with confscum that spews you town

[DkKoba]

The Flea and Dragons interaction to me looks bad for flea because the accusation that dragons hadn't read the post was unfounded and there isn't a reason for town!flea to think that in the first place.

It was ultimately crossed wires, and I was of the view the post had been skimmed, not read.
Was it just that bit looking bad for me or more of it? because that's a pretty naff bit to just be worth calling out.

ok prob not partnered.

yeah i didnt think id get this comfortable early but like robert/ND look like the solve from my end here

[DkKoba]

also like notice how ndmath cares nothing except for my elimination minus some shallow finger pointing at weak "associatives" with other players to not 100% tell on themselves as scum who've locked themselves into a shitty 1v1.

[DkKoba]

the way they commented on it implies its not SvS

[DkKoba]

there is no redirector btw because a watcher has 0% chance of seeing me. ndmath claimed a false report and thats that.

There could be a redirector just not on you to be fair. I still suspect A but could be convinced that’s just paranoia but if all the easy people for Koba/ND partner are gone please please please reconsider A. They keep pinging me

There is no possibily that i show up on a watcher report that is, because i dont visit.

The longer we push the day the more i think robert and math expose themselves.

[DkKoba]

...wait. what's not SvS? Me v Flea?

am i just confused? you may have to break out the ELI5 here

The way ndmath shaded you and flea and egged it on implies not svs and since you and flea cant be partners together from my pov that implies math was egging on a tvt to keep you both in PoE

[DkKoba]

im like 75% confident enough that just going back to back ndmath and robert will win the game that im almost - almost- confident enough to just accelerate it and self vote here but i dont wanna throw
VOTE: ndmath

[DkKoba]

I dont get what redirector is supposed to do bc i DONT VISISY

[DkKoba]

how am i omgusing robert? Quote it ndmath cmon.

[DkKoba]

Explain where i omgus rather than explain that they are the most likely partner based on poe

[DkKoba]

I received a belated message from the mod that Flow Trap is town.

Uh huh.
Sure you did.

So ND+Robert or Koba+Robert goes up to level 11 and A was likely being just antitown and bad.

I'm here like .. yes please keep tying robert to the PoE LMAO.

Thing is with all the craziness uh it could be that scum have a redirector and andante is scum here - they have played super weird but thats only if robert were to flip town here. Like the crazy dumb gambit stuff feels like a last stand like scum felt screwed bc ndmath flips redirector or something ?

[DkKoba]

It makes sense for scum to want redirector - dont wanna get into discussion of choice stage just stating how juicy redirector is as an ability.

[DkKoba]

I received a belated message from the mod that Flow Trap is town.

Were there any mod errors this game? @raya

[DkKoba]

thinking out loud here

the watcher claim by scum!ND seems dangerous because if there's a(nother) watcher they'd be on flow, they'd be able to say they didn't see ND on flow thus proving ND a liar pretty quick. that makes me think scum or town, ND is a watcher and probably watched flow last night.

if scum have a redirector and used it on flow to gain his message, then it's ND as a watcher so the other scum would be a redirector. i'm having trouble seeing them not just redirecting to scum and letting flow take heat for the message.

they'd have to know not_mafia was a desparado though to redirect his target from Andante to some one else. that seems rather unlikely, and it seems unlikely that N_M killed desparado'd someone else on purpose, so i think Andante is pretty safe for me.

i don't find the scum redirector theory very likely at this juncture

not mafia was 3 shot btw - just a thought.

[DkKoba]

me, dangerously standing close to the edge of being modkilled

[DkKoba]

@ndmath waiting on the quotes where i just "omgus robert" like you are claiming i am
Also that line is a slip - ill explain when i get home but your progression today has now slipped into Obvious Scum range.

[DkKoba]

thinking out loud here

the watcher claim by scum!ND seems dangerous because if there's a(nother) watcher they'd be on flow, they'd be able to say they didn't see ND on flow thus proving ND a liar pretty quick. that makes me think scum or town, ND is a watcher and probably watched flow last night.

if scum have a redirector and used it on flow to gain his message, then it's ND as a watcher so the other scum would be a redirector. i'm having trouble seeing them not just redirecting to scum and letting flow take heat for the message.

they'd have to know not_mafia was a desparado though to redirect his target from Andante to some one else. that seems rather unlikely, and it seems unlikely that N_M killed desparado'd someone else on purpose, so i think Andante is pretty safe for me.

i don't find the scum redirector theory very likely at this juncture

not mafia was 3 shot btw - just a thought.

I received a belated message from the mod that Flow Trap is town.

Were there any mod errors this game? @raya

Raya can’t answer this as it would confirm or deny mechanics. Much as I would love them too.

I mean eh

[DkKoba]

Still dont believe them.

nd redirector flip i would reexamine andante 1000%

[DkKoba]

fwiw its probably just ndmath and Robert but id still like to make sure all avenues are explored and eliminated if impossible.

[DkKoba]

yeah i think redirector could have been on andante here

[DkKoba]

We have 2 mls assuming town me were to get flipped right?

[DkKoba]

Andante just finished a recent game where they misread me btw so them just blatantly just pretending like im confirmed scum and refusing to entertain town me and also peacing out for the most part on top of the mathblade shade is also nagl.

Everyone else is towny

[DkKoba]

I think game is solved? At least fmpov

[DkKoba]

Id like to have ndmath respond to my points (idc if you're confirmed scum from my pov the more i force u to interact the more u have to dance for us and provide spew :3)

[DkKoba]

also robert + andante too.

[DkKoba]

I mean whats hilarious is the same theorized partners for me also work for ndmath so scum team just fucked in general bc town is all spewed town from a50 and ndmath

[DkKoba]

We know at least one of Koba/ND has to be scum. Because Koba claimed VT and cannot visit.

Ah ok. I was missing this piece of info. I'm good with a Koba lim then.

I hard defended u from being scum pushed and onto a50 wtf

[DkKoba]

i think everyone here should like say what their read on NDmath/me is without considering the claimed result as a reason, as it is just a 50/50. NDmath was an extremely likely elimination here today without their gambit here - so it should be a null point anyways.

[DkKoba]

I still haven’t ruled out you gambiting as a possibility with ND

i think u should trust that i would never try such a stupid gambit since then i have to explain why i havent died for 2 nights straight. when im scum i hate to be in the "should be nightkilled" zone.

[DkKoba]

it probably realistically doesn't change anything but i dont think ndmath having a higher weight here based on a claim should be a thing LOL

[DkKoba]

i mean i cant fake my flip regardless so its not like im worried abt it but i think that its not a theory worth wasting brain power for u over since i think u are town here esp since u are willing to go against the grain and push ndmath over me

[DkKoba]

it probably realistically doesn't change anything but i dont think ndmath having a higher weight here based on a claim should be a thing LOL

It doesn’t actually.

It’s more the old adage of elim the guilty before the cop phrase.

i think the cop here breaks into the old exception of a pr claim that is obviously scum motivated but i guess im just biased

[DkKoba]

let me reread robert + andante + ndmath together here

[DkKoba]

i wish the multi iso let u read up to like 5 people lol

[DkKoba]

whos mini slot now

[DkKoba]

u know i DID claim pr on d1 - perhaps they wanted to trade a PR to prevent me from being useful idk

[DkKoba]

VOTE: MiniVirgo

Their response to koba was

insane

.

I have a scum lean on Mini at this point anyways, but even if they are not scum, I do not want to play a game with someone who is gonna talk to other players the way they just did.

So a vote for them is a win-win in my book.

feels like scum taking advantage of the fact Mini was E-3 or E-2

good point towards andante

[DkKoba]

I don't think the wagon was justified there and felt a little too easy with lack of resistance.

Flea's vote I disliked the most out of all of them.
I doubt there's 2 scum on the wagon though, but I'll be shocked if everyone is town there.

It does make me think that Green has more of a chance to flip red here though and Mini is just the counter or at least a distraction that scum are just letting fly by.

As of who I think is town

DGM

is pretty town to me. There's a few posts I feel that are forced like 372 but I don't feel like it's scum mind set. I also think DMG is actually trying to progress reads though I'd like to see DMG question more towards who is scum.

Mini

is focused on the game at me. It's not like it's a popular place to push and there are much easier / accpetable targets for Mini to go for here. I don't think scum Mini get concerned about me asking for a prod on them either. The back and fourther between them and Dk was just not useful on a scale of sorting. The above is what makes me think town too.

Flow

is going to be the spot I flip flop on I feel like, but Flow I just read their posts as town. There's not too much else in it so mainly just gut.

NM

most likely town here. Mainly from the entrance but I doubt I'll get much more here.

ND

is actually producing high amount on content to posts. 291 is only from a town mind.

Town lean

Lukewarm

I can imagine being the scum tickets pass. 331 has some reads I disagree with but is consistent. I think I'm warming up to this slot.

Dk

is just going to tunnel here because of the disagreement. I'm not discrediting any skills they have here, I am saying that I don't think they fully believe to be 100% right here without the shit show argument. The problem I have with it is before that Dk was a realiable person to read in the sense I didn't feel there's a negative agenda for reads or comments. Now I think Dk is just going to ignore the game to that level until Mini is gone. The main problem is this stops me being able to make a read on them as if scum the tunnel is just going to be a smoke cloud. I think Dk shows as scum outside of that if scum, just from the way they play.

Artemiana

makes it just into here. I liked the approach to the shit show trying to prevent it going on. I know regardless of alignment it's not something that should be promoted but as scum you want to see town rip into each other (And this is going by my TvT). I liked something early game but I can't remember what.

Null

Moz

Needs to do something. I wish all the best in RL but still I expect something to be able to read on even if it's just an actual vote.

Dragons

I almost want to put as lean town but I feel that they do reads to appease rather than what they believe. Personally I think Dragon has a lot to offer though if town and I want to go through more reads with them directly day 2.

Minor lean scum

yessiree

seems empty with their posts. I don't see any actual attempt at scum hunting or want to progress. I don't see them going for easy targets either, but maybe staying under the radar or coasting.

Flea

gives me a different feeling to how I have normally with Flea. It's hard to say as last game me and Flea were calling each other scum and we were TvT so it could be a case of both of us giving opportunity here. Regardless I won't lim Flea day 1 as Flea is by far active enough generally to slip up. There's not too much to go by other than I feel Flea has been a bit quiet as a whole in this game so far. I only put Flea in minor out of respect of not being a null! Flea is the second player I want to get views on more day 2 before progressing.

Lean scum

Green

is playing as a typical scum, pick a target and stick to it without adding anything else to the game. As it stands there seem to be a few names I can't see with Green and with my thoughts on the Mini wagon I can see this as a good lim.

I'd be more preferable at this stage to talk about particular reads and give a details description on a name rather than the game state.
I can tell you that this list is where I'm actually currently at regardless of any lists posted before.

If I'm right on

Green

/

Mini

then we would be looking at
1 scum in
Save the Dragons, Dk, nm, Flea, Lukewarm
2 scum in
Yessiree, moz, Artemiana, ND, Mini, Green

With DGM and Flow locking as town for me.

did we decide VFP was town?

[DkKoba]

Something feels a bit dishonest and odd about this reads list in particular looking at how they called NDmath "high amount of content"

the dark magician girl read also feels a bit weird.


and then they like - "2 scum in this list with ndmath in it who was a hard townread"



im gonna go back to this post but @VFP please explain thought process here

[DkKoba]

sorry i thought i was done closing the PoE around a solve i ended up fucking up and widened it again

[DkKoba]

Not much to say right now.
I don't think T3's vote is scum-indicative; we need to get an elim in.

Andante technically should be roleclaiming but I struggle to see it mattering.

andante not partnered with ndmath based on this kind of post ^ you dont push partners to roleclaim.

[DkKoba]

mathblade and I are clear ty

VOTE: dkkoba

I'm 1-Shot Watcher, koba was the only visitor lol.

I'd imagine that {Robert, Yes, Flea} is the gamewinning poe since two bussers could have easily instead got yes or me elim'd yesterday.

btw - ndmath went from saying Robert is PoE to this.

also NDMath, any crumbs of being watcher?

i know for a fact town you does crumb you are a player to do that. i know you didnt because you are fake watcher but lets see you confirm there is no crumb esp when you were on the chopping block and a likely lim.

[DkKoba]

so like later NDMath says i "omgus'd" robert - forgot that they were fake scumreading robert to anti spew after i were to flip town into a reflexive defense there (imo) - because I brought up the point that robert was a likely partner based on interactions + PoE

[DkKoba]

I think objectively one can look at the behavior NDmath has had around a50/DMG and can see that that slot is very blatantly scum here, and see how hard I was pushing ndmath yday.

its just convenient when your guilty just so happens to be on the perfect slot that was coming into the day pushing on you that named them and the flipped scum as scum together.

[DkKoba]

lmaooo holy shit i just realized that it was here in this game flow had his push/defend chart bullshit.


yeah i was NEVER nightkilling him here as scum when he is a mislim option to me hahahhahahha

[DkKoba]

Urgh, I've had a gut town read on flow trap all along, but I realize iso'ing this player, the posts tend to be so tiny, light hearted, and often devoid of context that I need to be cautious about that gut read.

I'm getting "It's close to lychee and I'm finding things that may be towny with the main candidate" syndrome again

This could be scum being impatient that the lim isn't going through fast enough.

Maybe.

If this flips town DK is more likely to be town tbh

I hiccuped when I read this mainly because I have the opposite opinion on DkKoba.

But I'm likely the only one who can can prove themselves town ;-;

But then there are posts like the above so... PR hint?

my guy been discredding me all game and i havent even noticed bc they are but a tiny moon in my orbit

[DkKoba]

lol ok all good, I read this recent post first and was like, uhhh Almost50?? ahh you're voting them, all good!! and when he flips scum... flow/koba definitely has 1 cause they're trying to get ndmath first..

have you considered they are both scum?

you can push there, I'll keep pushing here. I wanna see how the wagons move.

genius play btw - nom me for it xoxo

[DkKoba]

tbh i think ive read and posted all that i needed to with regard to the past stuff - i do have some in thread interaction requests.


i just need to go over yesiree. both a50 and ndmath wanted that slot dead, with the way ndmath decided to go out like this - i wanna make sure they aren't doing a stupid gambit with yesiree.



Robert, if you are town here, a little WIM(wants it more, effort) would be appreciated to help make the game easier.

[DkKoba]

are PRs able to self target

[DkKoba]

Oh so Dk is going for the me scum path.
That makes it easier for me then, I might as well go for the mis lim / bus.

VOTE: DkKoba

my guy this isn't a towny response to my inquiries? lol

[DkKoba]

If wrong we lose a VT.
If wrong on ND we lose a Watcher

The 1 for 1 makes sense as Dk first.

You lost a potential ally today Dk!

nvm maybe u are still really bad town

[DkKoba]

lol ok bud. im blatantly town here over ndmath but pretend like you can see anyone cheering for someone saying this kind of stuff lazily

[DkKoba]

at least lets not rush the lim here.

im pretty sure 2nd scum is already on my wagon so there will definitely not be a quickhammer but being lazy and trying to avoid discussion with a town slot is a bit yikes

[DkKoba]

like i said - force ndmath to participate and show their colors. ive already explained many times over that ndmath has been way too shallow in relation to actual town!ndmath meta. town ndmath is way more decriptive in their read depth.


the fact ndmath like even has a pretend poe solve right away is crazy actually i just thought of this - like lets PRETEND ndmath actually is a legit watcher and they saw scum me visit flow. why does ndmath expect me to be there - why are they not surprised? why is their tone like matter of fact, like its something they expected + they even betray this tone with the poe they already had right there ready to go. town perspective there is to be more focused on how incredulous it is first and not have a team prepared there.

[DkKoba]

who rushes to daystart claim and insta vote me and then take the time to also write out the poe too?

its obvious, town perspective watcher with a guilty - wanna get it out really bad - but first let me reread and make some conclusions about it.

god theres so much fucking wrong with ndmath's claim that should be blatant and yall would be seeing this too from my pov where town should believe me because of how sus the claim was.

[DkKoba]

liek vfp im not here to appeal to you obviously like think about that gut reaction there - thats something scum me is going to not do, is antagonize possible pro-other side of the wagon voters.

[DkKoba]

See, I think the opposit... rush the lim to stop your lies!
I'm always willing to have this pushed as scum theatre.

"stop the scum lies"

my guy if im scum here im giving u free info.

like its win win for u to just not rush. rushing is what leads to a lot of scum wins on this website. rushing is pro scum.

[DkKoba]

i dont care if ur ego is hurt bc i said you might be scum off an interaction i saw on d1 that i didnt like and wanted to consider because i want to solve and close off the poe bc we are reaching 1 scum left endgame.

[DkKoba]

and u know what id rather have 2 MLs available for us rather than burn it here so im gonna fight my elim and prove my case that NDmath will be bleeding scum by the end of the day.

if they actually try to tryhard today too i 1000% guarantee I can show how many blatant flaws they are putting into it.


look. i was pushing math since early game. when i was scum with them i felt they were so obvious i thought i'd need to bus them. thats why i was so strong on them early game - bc i recognized their play from there.

[DkKoba]

I would have looked into it, put on my tin foil hat and probably defended you.
But you just had to go and push at me as scum, didn't you?

i dont see why you are above scrutiny here.

[DkKoba]

I even said at one point pretty sure that there was one thing that debunks the point where i said that u could be scum/

[DkKoba]

like look at it from my pov - you had a reads list like that considering my 2 scum confirmed from my pov it looks suspicious to me on day 1

[DkKoba]

I'm sorry but that bike you're riding, doesn't pedal backwards!

i mean idk if i thought it but i was holding onto that


i do not understand why u are so suddenly defensive about this unless u know 100% im flipping town

[DkKoba]

it would be disrespectful of me to read you as town at this point because of the way you are interacting with me here because it would imply you would play like this as town.

[DkKoba]

but sometimes people gotta disrespect yknow?

[DkKoba]

like look at it from my pov - you had a reads list like that considering my 2 scum confirmed from my pov it looks suspicious to me on day 1

You should be more worried if I'm right with that logic.

do you have anything to say about who is last scum btw?

[DkKoba]

i do not understand why u are so suddenly defensive about this unless u know 100% im flipping town

Yes, this is the reason!
Just keep breaking my heart there Dk! I can't even look at you right now!

im not vibing with this snark. can u like actually interact with me normally and not just troll bc ill condemn you to poe.

[DkKoba]

robert's staying in there, but there's a free spot rn and i would hate to have to ask people to vote you if you're alive and its lylo after a theoretical town!robert flip.

[DkKoba]

1 thing I will give you Dk, I think you are very good at manipulating.
I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think you has this way with yourself.

You know what to say and when to say.
You are only in the situation because a Watcher gave you a guilty. Let's remember that.

or maybe occams razor blah blah blah im actually town here

[DkKoba]

do you have anything to say about who is last scum btw?

No I forgot my reads to be honest.
I'm letting town carry me.

do you trust mathblade?

[DkKoba]

robert's staying in there, but there's a free spot rn and i would hate to have to ask people to vote you if you're alive and its lylo after a theoretical town!robert flip.

Well I would have lim Robert but no one seemed interested.
Missed the train there.

I would have lim ND as well yesterday but also missed the train!

i was literally trying to make the vote between my current cc and a confirmed scum now, yesterday, so its like ? i already guiltied this mf first if you think about it theyre just trying to cc now with a fake guilty i guess. like i was a momentum swinging vote onto my scum partner d2 unless u wanna assume im exactly only partners with yesiree here?

[DkKoba]

do you trust mathblade?

As town? Yes
To follow? No

weird why not follow? after he hardpushed the wagon very early on a now flipped scum?

[DkKoba]

Yessiree (3): NDMath, Robert M Hunter, Save The Dragons

This is what a scum wagon looks like.

this is what i quoted before vfp im pretty sure and said that this analysis pings town for you bc of the fact it calls out a confscum and the top POE person.

[DkKoba]

I forget most of what happened yesterday.
I think yessiree was town though.

and thus - i would have to be the dumbest mafia to not just tunnel onto a town ndmath and let yesiree die over scumpartner a50

[DkKoba]

but I am not the dumbest scum player - so it is an impossible situation after a50 flipped scum. and thus i should be cleared

[DkKoba]

but this game they literally already got 1 scum and i helped and he is townreading me here

[DkKoba]

or we can get it correct today and just win tomorrow

[DkKoba]

like i said - force ndmath to participate and show their colors. ive already explained many times over that ndmath has been way too shallow in relation to actual town!ndmath meta. town ndmath is way more decriptive in their read depth.


the fact ndmath like even has a pretend poe solve right away is crazy actually i just thought of this - like lets PRETEND ndmath actually is a legit watcher and they saw scum me visit flow. why does ndmath expect me to be there - why are they not surprised? why is their tone like matter of fact, like its something they expected + they even betray this tone with the poe they already had right there ready to go. town perspective there is to be more focused on how incredulous it is first and not have a team prepared there.

[DkKoba]

i mean like im pretty sure the case that i am town here is very compelling because i literally.. voted A50 at a point a scum would not.

[DkKoba]

god i hate trying to self towncase while i am high that was literal brain pain LOL

[DkKoba]

how am i omgusing robert? Quote it ndmath cmon.

Explain where i omgus rather than explain that they are the most likely partner based on poe

Spoiler:

NDmath>Robert>STD should win the game no matter what

I think robert is the most incriminated based on how shitty their progression is on their partner, as soon as I'm pushing ND, robert popped in and tried to shade me, forgetting they were agreeing with my worldview just a few posts ago.

This is your primary reason for Robert being scum, 'shading you'. Scumreading the person voting you (besides andante who is near clear) is the easiest route for scum because that person is the one hardest to convince. You keeping acting like you're considering other people but then immediately remove them from the poe again.

i think everyone here should like say what their read on NDmath/me is without considering the claimed result as a reason, as it is just a 50/50. NDmath was an extremely likely elimination here today without their gambit here - so it should be a null point anyways.

There's multiple posts of this, but koba's been trying to reframe the conversation to be entirely about dayplay when it isn't because of the hardguilty.

mathblade and I are clear ty

VOTE: dkkoba

I'm 1-Shot Watcher, koba was the only visitor lol.

I'd imagine that {Robert, Yes, Flea} is the gamewinning poe since two bussers could have easily instead got yes or me elim'd yesterday.

btw - ndmath went from saying Robert is PoE to this.

also NDMath, any crumbs of being watcher?

i know for a fact town you does crumb you are a player to do that. i know you didnt because you are fake watcher but lets see you confirm there is no crumb esp when you were on the chopping block and a likely lim.

like i said - force ndmath to participate and show their colors. ive already explained many times over that ndmath has been way too shallow in relation to actual town!ndmath meta. town ndmath is way more decriptive in their read depth.


the fact ndmath like even has a pretend poe solve right away is crazy actually i just thought of this - like lets PRETEND ndmath actually is a legit watcher and they saw scum me visit flow. why does ndmath expect me to be there - why are they not surprised? why is their tone like matter of fact, like its something they expected + they even betray this tone with the poe they already had right there ready to go. town perspective there is to be more focused on how incredulous it is first and not have a team prepared there.

In these two posts koba is literally just making stuff up; this is their first game playing with town!me. And I don't crumb, especially in (semi)opens, so I have no idea how koba "knows for a fact" the opposite.

OK so 1) Its evident you're scumreading me, yay I love it.
2) Why? I want some meat to go with the bones at least. Give me fluff and amma yeet you, what you've given is bearly bones.
3) Convince me why to vote koba instead of just the guilty.

4) Why if you're so keen on me being the last scum, do you want my thoughts on this rather amusing 1vs1?

You are severely overestimating my confidence level in you being scum, and I am not sure why.

nonononononono math, where's the OMGUS?
I thought I was OMGUS'ing?

also aweeee poor scum ndmath hates when dkkoba uses the fact that dayplay>fake guilty

dayplay absolutely matters here and because of it your guilty should not exist - you made an illogical claim and you have simply hardfocused on only talking about your guilty and throwing out random names.


note how instead of linking a town game here you just straight deny stuff I wonder why? I wonder what sort of contrast we might see vs your town game?
you THINK I haven't seen you play town but i have read games of yours. and seeing you play scum i have seen enough of your weak points that I understand it.

[DkKoba]

I find it interesting in the 3 not voting.... the top 3 accused outside of this Koba/Math thing.... 2nd scum in flea/yes....just as we thought before... the votes are confirming koba will flip scum lmao

have you even read the game you are playing in?

like genuine question cuz this post is so fucking ignorant that like it actually makes me angry that you are probably town here

[DkKoba]

literally you played a game where you so fucking egregiously misread me right off the bat and had 0 humility when I ended up flipping town and you're showing it again here.

[DkKoba]

those 3 people not voting are the towniest people outside of mathblade.

so maybe step up and start reading the game because we shouldn't be ending the day without a full discussion -

just literally look at how focused ndmath is on his cc over sorting other scum. if he's town here he would be afraid to be dead tonight and unable to influence the game.

he cannot fake analyze all my posts because the volume of them forbids it.

[DkKoba]

go ahead andante, go ask ndmath why their opinions of the game have suddenly hardfocused towards my slot only and they refuse to talk about anyone else in any depth.

[DkKoba]

but yup - scum koba definitely abandons town!ndmath in favor of bussing their partner who isn't in any danger at the time of vote instead of finding a way to push yesiree over the edge.

makes perfect sense amirite?

scum koba definitely makes momentum swinging votes against their partner with a mislim option alive, unless you think its exactly just yessiree and me?

[DkKoba]

[DkKoba]

have you even read the game you are playing in?

not really. posting so I don't get prodded. Watcher guilted you. I trust the watcher. I'm voting you.

embarassing for u tbh

[DkKoba]

andante: I trust watcher
me: why
andante: bc they claim
me: how is that a good reason
andante:

[DkKoba]

if this was limlo @andante which side would you trust here?

[DkKoba]

[DkKoba]

the way ndmath just writes these memes by being obvious scum >>>>>>>>>

if you're on my wagon out of laziness hope u know that i am severely judging you for not actually interacting with the game and playing lazy

[DkKoba]

i think out of spite i wanna mark the legacy PoE as Robert>Andante>VFP

[DkKoba]

no matter what it all comes back to how robert has been blatantly playing super shifty and under the radar while nearly all their posts are discreds of me + inconsistencies in reads.

[DkKoba]

btw if yall wanna see what town NDMath as a PR actually looks like: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=84245&user_select[]=33653

[DkKoba]

This is me claiming ascetic.


What if we wagoned someone who has actually confirmed?
VOTE: ydrasse

also they softed their role as commuter in first post

[DkKoba]

Not much to say right now.
I don't think T3's vote is scum-indicative; we need to get an elim in.

Andante technically should be roleclaiming but I struggle to see it mattering.

andante not partnered with ndmath based on this kind of post ^ you dont push partners to roleclaim.

This is the opposite of a push Koba. It’s a dissuasion of claiming. Mention and defuse in the same post. Means if ND is scum they are a natural or have experience.

yeah andante is in PoE forever here. i would actually lim andante over robert if nd were to flip redirector

[DkKoba]

Hey Koba, Why do scum fakeclaim a guity on you here?

Because they were screwed otherwise

[DkKoba]

Look at my progression in the game. I have a hard scumread on ndmath+ a50 d2.

[DkKoba]

my choice is koba so if i vote i end the day

if people are ready i'll drop the hammer, but i'm ready to move on

Why me over ndmath?

[DkKoba]

i could see scum act the way you have i think your route out of this is to act as you have and try and convince people you're town by trying to solve the game

my gut says it's you and that ndmath doesn't claim as scum knowing he's going down if he's wrong

your gut hasn't read the game