Open 857 | Frienemies | Postgame

[Aristeia]

Hi Dats <3

[Aristeia]

am I not getting a townread too

[Aristeia]

YAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY

[Aristeia]

I shouldn't need to post for you to townread me *pouts*

[Aristeia]

I haven't actually read anything but I plan to sheep Dats <3

[Aristeia]

I shouldn't need to post for you to townread me *pouts*

i didn't want people to think we're masons, i don't want to get you shot :<

I am willing to jump in front of every nightkill for you <3

[Aristeia]

I'm pretty sure I've never lost a game when I've gotten nightkilled like um

ever

[Aristeia]

ngl I might vote out a mason just to protect Dats <3

[Aristeia]

I'm pretty sure I've never lost a game when I've gotten nightkilled like um

ever

i do not care about winning the game

i care about playing it with you <3

[Aristeia]

My vote is serious now. Datisi straight avoiding me

VOTE: implosion

if datisi is mafia I guess this is a chainsaw

[Aristeia]

wait I wrote the wrong name oops

VOTE: VP Baltar

[Aristeia]

I dunno I think VP baltar is probably town but I'm hopelessly jealous

[Aristeia]

you giving me more attention than him <3

[Aristeia]

I did want to murder him during that Lake Game just because he had a PT with you and I didn't.

Unfair but true

[Aristeia]

nuh uh

[Aristeia]

I did want to murder him during that Lake Game just because he had a PT with you and I didn't.

Unfair but true

we can start a side thing if you want Ari. I can't stand that datisi rolled scum and betrayed me like this.

you could claim mason and have a mason claim to back you up and I would still yeet you to save my Dats <3

[Aristeia]

what if the 3 green names are the 3 red mafia...

we yeet the Penguin last because he's the funniest one

[Aristeia]

I think Fire is probably mafia

sorry fire!

[Aristeia]

thx

[Aristeia]

wagon choo choo go go

VOTE: fire

[Aristeia]

Spoiler: For Dats<3

[Aristeia]

Real talk, of all the people to talk so far, I think Ari is the one I SR the most...

I'm always town ^^

[Aristeia]

I'm not voting him, so thus the question doesn't apply to me, I'll pass the question to VP!

I laughed a lot

[Aristeia]

idk if andante is town or scum but i'm enjoying her play. it's so in-the-moment. i strive to live every day like that

maybe implo is mafia

[Aristeia]

idk if andante is town or scum but i'm enjoying her play. it's so in-the-moment. i strive to live every day like that

this makes me so happy!!!!

Andante you are a treasure

[Aristeia]

also also aristeia is town <3

[Aristeia]

idk if andante is town or scum but i'm enjoying her play. it's so in-the-moment. i strive to live every day like that

maybe implo is mafia

what's your reason for thinking implosion maf?

people who try to make andante happy are usually mafia

[Aristeia]

There is no call I wouldn't have hung up on for being maf with datisi

same tbh

[Aristeia]

This is fake andante. She would have shit all over implosion trying to suck up to her.

what

she usually gets pocketed by people being nice to her

what are you even talking about

[Aristeia]

people who try to make andante happy are usually mafia

Andante specifically, or just people in general?

I think she's particularly susceptible to it.

Does it work on you too?

[Aristeia]

LOL yes yes!! works very well for SS!!! he's easy to pocket!!!

Is he?

I've never actually seen him have thoughts or wield thread influence so it's hard for me to think anyone would bother to pocket him

[Aristeia]

And most people are aware of this? But they're not aware of the fact that most people are aware of it?

I dunno I haven't taken a poll

Do you want to do that for me?

[Aristeia]

Well your reasoning kinda depends on both of those being true. If it's common knowledge that Andante is susceptible to pocketing, then people would expect to be called out for it by others (even if not by Andante herself).

Do you think Implosion is town or mafia I'm getting confused by your line of reasoning atp

[Aristeia]

*throws a pokeball at SS*

[Aristeia]

This Azelf is tricksy

[Aristeia]

He's famously tightlipped as both alignments

I've heard that he's gone entire years without voting

[Aristeia]

He's famously tightlipped as both alignments

I've heard that he's gone entire years without voting

Who are you?

s_s is very frustrating to me because he famously (infamously?) does not vote d1. unless that's changed in my absence.

that question seems too deep for the scope of this game but I think it's townie of you to ask it

[Aristeia]

stolen

[Aristeia]

hehehe

[Aristeia]

I think he's town dear >_>

[Aristeia]

keep us posted on the Stanley Cup Andante!

We're all counting on you!

[Aristeia]

gut read

[Aristeia]

My vote is serious now. Datisi straight avoiding me

btw baltar is this a joke? reaction test? or like serious serious?

[Aristeia]

why do you think scum!him avoid you again?

[Aristeia]

why do you think scum!him avoid you again?

Cause I posed an awkward opener (I'm not masons with datisi), and engaging with that conversation is potentially uncomfortable for scum, who I suspect would not want to openly talk about masons for fear of being called rolefishers.

[Aristeia]

Idk, vulture could be town.

why?

[Aristeia]

she locktown'd you for your fearless setup spec

[Aristeia]

i think dats is town because it would be mean if god made us opposite alignments a third time in a row :<

[Aristeia]

VOTE: vpb

[Aristeia]

we can spice it up by killing Baltar

[Aristeia]

I never understand how people read S_S because he feels like he does nothing as both alignments fairly consistently to me

Also @Implosion could you do me a favor and unvote VP Baltar and then revote him if you want to keep voting for him? ty

[Aristeia]

he feels like he's trying to be "sensible" and that's a scum tell for him.

[Aristeia]

~75% of the reason I want to murder him has to do with jealousy and because I think it'd be funny.

If he's mafia too that's just a bonus tbh

[Aristeia]

why do you think scum!him avoid you again?

Cause I posed an awkward opener (I'm not masons with datisi), and engaging with that conversation is potentially uncomfortable for scum, who I suspect would not want to openly talk about masons for fear of being called rolefishers.

why do you think scum!him avoid you again?

Cause I posed an awkward opener (I'm not masons with datisi), and engaging with that conversation is potentially uncomfortable for scum, who I suspect would not want to openly talk about masons for fear of being called rolefishers.

ah yes, towntisi, the creature widely known for loving to engage in awkward conversations, and potentially tip off scum on their masonry status.

Maybe I have a higher opinion of your ability to game the game as town.

What bugs me is you're arguing kind of two things here. 1) That engaging with me on that topic could have been awkward as town, and therefore you avoided it. And 2) you intentionally ignored me because you were reaction testing if that was would annoy me.

Is that an accurate representation of what you're saying?

okay, i don't think my reads have dramatically changed in the last few pages

main thing that annoys me is that baltar is pushing me for things i'm pretty sure he knows is false. which like, wouldn't be the first time i get pushed for nonsense. but my issue there is that there seems to be a lack of... an overarching thought process behind the push. it's just throwing a mudfling after mudfling.

i'd be interesting in hearing why @implo is voting there, though, since i'm p sure he's not aware of this sorta meta.

a few other things i'm keeping an eye out on, but i wanna let them develop naturally first.

aight, gotta run. will be checking in periodically today, depending on how busy the workday will be. try to not have too much fun without me.

I don't think there is any lack of thought process. I've explained my reasoning pretty thoroughly actually. What do you think is mudslinging exactly?

I think town!baltar is more nonsensical and just makes up random shit.

like these don't make sense to me but I guess plausibly they could make sense to someone else?

[Aristeia]

like if you think about what he's saying in 266.

He's saying you'd be uncomfortable as scum answering because "rolefishing" except like town is kind of uncomfortable answering a mason question too, and masons are even more uncomfortable answering a mason question so it's weird to me that he jumps to the conclusion you're doing it because you're mafia.

and he's kind of rolefishing while saying it's bad to rolefish ?

[Aristeia]

I think town!baltar is more nonsensical and just makes up random shit.

i mean... that's exactly how those posts read to me

Ok but they

could

make sense to him.

Like scum!baltar makes up shit that he thinks a town person would believe is rational. [a]

but town!baltar just writes down whatever he's

actually

thinking.

and I find [a] to usually be more reasonable than

and his posting feels closer to [a] than

for me.

[Aristeia]

like [a] and

both feel very unreasonable to me,

but [a] feels closer to reasonable than

does.

and I think his posting is closer to reasonable than completely unreasonable.

[Aristeia]

the thought process behind it feels forced into you having to attack me

I don't understand why you think I would be forced into attacking you as scum. I don't see what I gain.

like this type of self defense is "why would I do that if I'm mafia"

which is kind of ???? to me.

it should be self evident to him that he wants to be townread when he's mafia.

so doing things that don't make sense for him to do as mafia will get him townread sometimes.

thus why not do such things?

It's a similar vein to "mafia don't want to rolefish for masons cuz its susp, but I'm going to rolefish for masons because I'm fearless and not mafia"

like um lol no?

[Aristeia]

he was like "i'm gonna fucken yeet you when the game starts" in a chat

we should kill him for this alone

[Aristeia]

[Aristeia]

do you want this next pagetop <3 ?

[Aristeia]

tell me you're town again Dats <3

[Aristeia]

tell me you're town again Dats <3

i'm finally town again and i really hope you are too so that we can win this game together <3

Spoiler: For Dats<3

[Aristeia]

I find town him to be more abrasive in general.

[Aristeia]

I think town!baltar is more nonsensical and just makes up random shit.

i mean... that's exactly how those posts read to me

Ok but they

could

make sense to him.

Like scum!baltar makes up shit that he thinks a town person would believe is rational. [a]

but town!baltar just writes down whatever he's

actually

thinking.

and I find [a] to usually be more reasonable than

and his posting feels closer to [a] than

for me.

like [a] and

both feel very unreasonable to me,

but [a] feels closer to reasonable than

does.

and I think his posting is closer to reasonable than completely unreasonable.

this is a lot of theory, can you illustrate how his posting fits this specifically?

Well if you read his iso in this game, it feels like he's trying to be reasonable.

[Aristeia]

Gamma if you're interested in reading a few VP Baltar ISOs:

KTANE[Mafia]: viewtopic.php?t=89120&f=3&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go

Lake Melancholy[Town]: viewtopic.php?t=89302&f=83&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Bunnies[Town]:viewtopic.php?t=88600&f=2&st=0&sk=t&sd= ... er_sort=Go


The two town isos are a lot more spitbally/ hit multiple tonal points, just throwing shit everywhere to interact and it's very flowy and loose.

whereas the scum!iso is very "trying to look like he's doing shit that's reasonable and protown"

[Aristeia]

I guess the easiest way to summarize this is.

Scum!Baltar tries to look town

whereas Town!Baltar doesn't really care and is just having lots of fun doing whatever he wants.

and I think he's closer to trying to look town than having fun doing whatever he wants.

[Aristeia]

I also kind of think town!baltar would've brought up that I have an absolutely abysmal track record of reading him by this point because (I have an absolutely abysmal track record at reading him)

but I think scum!him forgot about that and is just saying I'm doing it because I'm jealous(I am jealous that's true)

[Aristeia]

pedit - @ari, I don't think you actually have a terrible record of reading me at this point? Didn't you correctly townread me our last few games?

Which game are you talking about?

Lake Melancholy I said you were mafia and almost voted you out at some point.

Bunnies you claimed a PR and got shot.

Large Normal I think I had to replace out fairly early.

[Aristeia]

Town!Baltar doesn't really care and is just having lots of fun doing whatever he wants.

that has never been my experience. Town him is usually yelling... a lot, scum him is just "hey look I'm nice!!" which was why like KTANE, day 1 there was a point like "hold up, he's too nice here" but yeah, your desciption of town/scum VP do NOT line up with the VP I'm aware of lol. now... are you his scumpartner... or is it just you maf trying to pocket him? either way I don't by any of this, plus I was SRing you earlier, and I'm gonna take a wild guess you saw and this is the "effort" in your posts.... describing meta to us... instead of actually reading VP this game

VOTE: Aristeia

when I say "doesn't really care" I mean "doesn't really care how other people see him" he doesn't really try to get townread. he's just throwing out takes left and right and not trying to "seem reasonable/nice"

[Aristeia]

Large Normal I think I had to replace out fairly early.

my first thought reading this was "what? ari was scum in large normal and didn't have to read baltar"

then i realized >_>

I think I'm always a tiny bit your traitor at heart when you roll scum <3

[Aristeia]

eh, Lake Melancholy you came to the correct read and I wasn't even playing very engaged that game.

Guardians at the Gate or whatever you also read me correctly.

um Lake Melancholy was mostly because Prism claimed a role that was mechanically incompatible with the role I had so I knew she was mafia and when she tried to kill you I decided you were town.

Guardians was because Imaginality scum-slipped in your game about pre-flipping my game which basically was a scum-claim to me and that made it so you were definitely town.

In both of those games I initially mis-read you as Mafia and pushed you.

[Aristeia]

oh god did you two roll scum together >_>

[Aristeia]

my jealousy meter just went up to like 15

[Aristeia]

oh god did you two roll scum together >_>

god i wish

you'd rather roll scum with him than with me

[Aristeia]

if I see post game that your scum PT with Baltar is longer than the game thread is rn I might die irl

[Aristeia]

Is there anyone else at MS with their own private fan club?

[Aristeia]

maybe you're just more positive because I'm here <3

[Aristeia]

You could tell me the truth when you roll scum and I'd still believe you're town dear <3

[Aristeia]

Hai.

[Aristeia]

I don't think it's applicable because there's a much higher chance of scum shooting vts in this setup than 2-3-2

for example if we yeet a vt today

we go into night with 3 masons 6 VTs and mafia has 1:3 chance of hitting a mason with nk

if you r playing 2-3-2 and you yeet a vt

you go into night with 2 mason 2 VTs and mafia have 1:2 chance of hitting a mason with NK

[Aristeia]

looks like she random.org'd it

[Aristeia]

might be slightly +town for her tbh

[Aristeia]

very smooth

[Aristeia]

maybe he's just bored

[Aristeia]

Dats I miss you <3

[Aristeia]

Dats I miss you <3

Can we please just stop with this? It's actually getting annoying, I signed up to play mafia, not for this... who do you think the mafia are/why?

You can always read my posts where I explain why I think vp baltar is mafia and engage with them.

[Aristeia]

why are you trying to reason with Andante Dats?

[Aristeia]

you've seen her play KTANE + that mini normal as town and HDP.

I think she's pretty polarized and she feels p townie rn

I don't think "reasoning" with andante is a good way to sort her because she doesn't make much sense as town most of the time.

[Aristeia]

oh yea you also saw her play town in that PYP

[Aristeia]

I mean in HDP and PYP she was p different no?

[Aristeia]

I think she's pretty polarized and she feels p townie rn

how is she polarized and what makes her townie here?

she's like eager to be here.

in HDP she was basically in hiding

[Aristeia]

I mean in HDP and PYP she was p different no?

HDP was over the holidays and I was just super busy IRL, which didn't help with the million posts per day there...

even when you had time to be online you couldn't wait to log off during the game which has nothing to do with the holidays.

[Aristeia]

There is a certain refuge in audacity baked into Andante's play.

what does this even mean?? lol is it good?

it means he thinks you're mafia trying to throw outlandish ideas into the thread in order to be townread.

[Aristeia]

I don't think she didn't like the game.

She just didn't want to be online and posting thoughts and stuff.

[Aristeia]

@Ari if you want my present scum game, the normal fish in the sea game... I was very present there

also I think her trying to refuse the tr by claiming her scum game is good and citing some game from whenever is mildly +town too

[Aristeia]

@Ari if you want my present scum game, the normal fish in the sea game... I was very present there

also I think her trying to refuse the tr by claiming her scum game is good and citing some game from whenever is mildly +town too

I just think it's annoying the assumption is "scum game sucks, and town is like this"

That's not what I meant. Sorry if I offended you.

My scum game is also very polarized and quite bad.

[Aristeia]

Hi Mala ! !

[Aristeia]

Do you think you're easy to read?

Do you have an example of someone who successfully reads you correctly across multiple games?

I am happy to look at the data and their technique it would be instructive for me.

[Aristeia]

But that doesn't change the fact that you didn't seem to want to make an effort or even interact with me at all.

I didn't think 390 or 402 were productive to answer, is there a conversation about something you are very interested in?

[Aristeia]

so what do you actually want to talk to me about?

[Aristeia]

I don't think every post I make is productive.

Lots of posts I make are just to have fun.

I don't flirt with Dats to sort him, I flirt with him because I enjoy flirting with him and I like to do things that I enjoy.

[Aristeia]

ok because you're complaining that I'm not engaging with you and I'm here to answer anything you want to ask me and you um don't seem to actually want to converse.

[Aristeia]

it's not very good because the basis of it is that Town!Andante is sensible and Scum!Andante is not sensible and that's just not true in my experience.

[Aristeia]

ok because you're complaining that I'm not engaging with you and I'm here to answer anything you want to ask me and you um don't seem to actually want to converse.

I mean, you didn't want to talk about my conversation points when they were relevant. What makes me think you'd want to talk about them now?

because I'm literally asking you what you want to talk about?

[Aristeia]

because I'm literally asking you what you want to talk about?

Well, okay, let's talk about 394 then. I feel like I have a decent sense, as scum, of what things I shouldn't do because they'll attract primarily negative attention. And that sense is absent as town-- it almost never enters the equation. Probably because I have some amount of faith in the scumhunting skill of the people I'm playing with, that I assume that if I keep saying genuine things as town people will more often than not eventually read me town for it.

I can only speak for myself, but I would imagine that at least some other people are like this? It's hard to imagine not having that sense as scum, I guess I can imagine also having it as town but I'm sure many people don't.

So I think that it's a reasonable defense, or at least, the claim deserves to be looked at specifically rather than just dismissed in the abstract.

His point is that he wouldn't "attack Datisi" if he was mafia because it "gains him nothing"

Now we know from what Datisi has said that VPB jokingly said to Datisi that he was going to yeet Datisi before the game began[before alignments were handed out].

If VPB decides to play in a different manner, that would be suspect because why would he not follow through on his "joke"?

So if VPB receives a mafia role pm, he can't "chicken out of it" because Datisi would wonder "hey why isn't VPB attacking me like he said he would?" maybe he got a scum role PM.

and VPB would know that Datisi would think along these lines so therefore he basically needs to attack Datisi - this is where the "forced to attack" comes in.

The tone of the push feels halfway between a joke and like serious; it doesn't feel substantive enough to be real suspicion and it's not funny enough to be a joke, it just feels like some awkward thing he's doing because he has to do it.

I agree VPB would know not to do things that look bad - but in this case I believe if he doesn't attack Datisi right away it looks even more susp to Datisi.

[Aristeia]

Weird that you didn't think it was productive to respond to me when I was clearly trying to engage you but you thought 398, 399, and 401 were productive.

Yeah this is town.

that post is dreadful what are you even talking about

[Aristeia]

I feel like I have a decent sense, as scum, of what things I shouldn't do because they'll attract primarily negative attention. And that sense is absent as town-- it almost never enters the equation.

ok and VPB is literally displaying that sense of self-awareness by saying that he is town because he did this thing that makes him look bad.

he needs to have that self-awareness to say that in the first place.

[Aristeia]

also like VP hasn't even said I'm mafia

which is weird because he said I'm good at reading him supposedly

so if I'm pushing him and I'm good at reading him and he's town, why would he not think I'm scum and trying to push a misyeet?

[Aristeia]

Andante I feel like is scum because her saying EIGHT

LMAOOOOOOO

you heard it here first folks... ocho = mafia

This is a town response 0% of the time.

hello, nice to meet you. I'm andante

I don’t care WHO you are! You blatantly misrepresent my arguments on you, you die!

this feels kind of townie

has anyone seen Gamma do this as mafia?

[Aristeia]

this feels kind of townie

has anyone seen Gamma do this as mafia?

i can't find a specific example that really matches, but it does feel more like his maf game than his town game to me, in the way that i think it slightly misses on the tone it's trying to hit, and feels over-exaggerated

ig it does happen as town sometimes too so idk

I dunno it feels like townier him because of the righteous indignation feels tonally sincere.

[Aristeia]

high quality penguin post

[Aristeia]

I should make a gif list

[Aristeia]

Spoiler: Gif List

VP Baltar

Datisi

Aristeia

GeorgeBailey

Gamma Emerald

Malakittens

hutmeil

fireisredsir

Something_Smart

implosion

PenguinPower

Vulture

Andante

[Aristeia]

you don't need reads to make a gif list gamma : )

[Aristeia]

what's your read on me ?

[Aristeia]

I never roll scum tho :<

[Aristeia]

fair,

I guess you just have to convince someone who is mafia to shitpush me with very bad reasoning

[Aristeia]

can i just cut out the middleman?

it would be a bad idea I believe

[Aristeia]

she had a slow start here as well as town:

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=89426

it's been just 4 days since game start and half of it was over the weekend.

hopefully she will show up to play

[Aristeia]

I just hope this is the time Dats!town correctly townreads me becuz if this is another scum!Dats townreads town!ari I will be sads ;_;

[Aristeia]

I really really really really want it to be <3

Spoiler: thoughts

I'm mildly worried that it isn't but you know I don't have the heart to actually push you <3

[Aristeia]

I think you're cute when you get angry :>

[Aristeia]

VOTE: mala :/

[Aristeia]

uh dont you remember?

[Aristeia]

~.~

[Aristeia]

uh dont you remember?

if the answer involves the recent coalition game, then no, i was not exactly paying attention to her slot >_>

viewtopic.php?t=89426&f=83&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

#741 is how she reacted to being pushed for lurking then

[Aristeia]

and you mislimmed her at the end anyway fire >.>

[Aristeia]

and you mislimmed her at the end anyway fire >.>

hey if i was only listening to him, he told me to never ever elim std, so. gotta be wrong on one of em

fair

[Aristeia]

@Hutmeil: is meta the only way you would/generally approach games? There’s a level of familiarity that most players have here but equally as you feel I’m claiming to be low energy to lurk, I feel like you’re using meta (or lack thereof) as a shield to avoid engaging the game.

On the contrary. As I've mentioned before, I lack meta info so I'm just basing things on their own merits. To be honest, I feel kinda out of place since I'm the only one new here and you guys have played each other multiple times. So when you guys talk and banter, I just prefer to listen (read).

Also, I guess because of the 10-year hiatus, I'm still getting used to the game again.

But I'll try to engage more often (hopefully!). It's quite hard to come back and see 10-15 new pages to read all at once!

my advice would be that you don't particularly need to understand every slot in the game, just skim and try to feel for what you think is out of place or scummy - one good idea is worth more than many wrong ones.

[Aristeia]

893 is a very townie post and i will be kind of sad if fireisredsir is red

Spoiler:

I'm jotting this down in my notebook as an S/S interaction so I can brag about it postgame if I'm right and completely forget about it if I'm wrong.

[Aristeia]

this game doesn't have enough cute cat gifs

do we have to put gifs in spoilers? they are so cutes

[Aristeia]

god i might actually be townreading dats again >.<

[Aristeia]

sometimes i get a little feeling in my gut that you just have to be town

and i haven't felt that way since the first page of guardians.

[Aristeia]

lukewarm is such a good player

I miss that guy.

[Aristeia]

why don't you fight Penguin to solve this issue

[Aristeia]

gooood morning friends, guess who slept through their alarm and was almost late for work

<3

[Aristeia]

why am i so far away from you

[Aristeia]

you can always call me confidently town dear I promise I won't scumread you for it

[Aristeia]

Spoiler: one time offer

the first person to lock-town dats for posting a triangle is probably town

[Aristeia]

I really really really really miss the days when I could just turn my brain off, sheep dats and wake up to a dead mafia.

those days were so much fun dats <3.

[Aristeia]

Dats has a very good scum game, he just crushed his Champs Qualifier without being voted a single time and the last two games I played vs Scum!Him, his team won both times.

My scum game is pretty much awful, I'm actually quite bad at faking an uninformed mindset.

[Aristeia]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ari

It does strike me how few people seem to be strongly town reading Ari at this point. I also don't get the sense that she is really hunting anyone...

what does people townreading me have to do with my alignment?

[Aristeia]

which game are you talking about?

my last three games with you were:

Lake Melancholy, where Faker mechanically scumclaimed to me before I even posted so I had something to spend all my time attacking.

and

Large Normal, where lots of people scumread me and only Dats was defending/townreading me because he was mafia.

and

Guardians, where literally everyone including you thought I was scum.


What exactly do you mean by "towning it up?"

[Aristeia]

? you were in the game with us no? or is my memory bad

[Aristeia]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88987

[Aristeia]

so you were really scumreading me <3

[Aristeia]

ok but my point that I'm making is that people not townreading me early is a normal occurrence for me.

I could pull more games from meta where I do not get townread right away as town.

I don't really understand why you think that's a good reason to think I'm mafia?

[Aristeia]

that's an indication of me doing nothing not an indication of me being mafia.

[Aristeia]

that's an indication of me doing nothing not an indication of me being mafia.

You do nothing as mafia

uh no I don't

[Aristeia]

In my only completed scum game;

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=87360

I am pretty much the only mafia player

doing things

I would feel much more pressure to dominate thread presence if I were actually agenda'd.

[Aristeia]

that's an indication of me doing nothing not an indication of me being mafia.

You do nothing as mafia

uh no I don't

You can definitely struggle if you're not finding am angle to work.

I have lots of angles I could work if I were mafia - faking conviction is trivially easy for me.

I don't feel any of them are compelling enough to push very hard so I'm more laid back.

[Aristeia]

right now Mala

if someone does something I think is scummier I will let you know

[Aristeia]

I can write up a readlist if you want but it won't be very useful imo cuz not a lot has happened and my reads r pretty hit/miss before things actually happen in a game.

[Aristeia]

she feels different from how she caught up in the coalition micro where she was lurking town, it feels more sterile.

[Aristeia]

FireisRedSir where are you

we got some work to do now.

[Aristeia]

GeorgeBailey give me your best hot take in the form of a meme pls ^^

[Aristeia]

VOTE: fire

I'm not sure if I'm just biased against you somehow :<

your vote against hut just feels uninspired >_<

[Aristeia]

Why is it less inspired than George's? I feel like trying to get a wagon going is a pretty reasonable aim.

well I have a different baseline for fire and george.

I actually have 0 experience playing with george so I have basically no idea how he plays but I'd trust Dats to give an accurate read there.

[Aristeia]

with mala i think it is slightly different bc here people aren't really saying "mala is lurking, she lurks as scum, therefore she's scum", they're more saying "mala is lurking, lurking is scummy, therefore she's scum". the first point is one that she would take issue with, the second one much less so. then again idk if she's even read enough to know which is going on here

with mala i think it is slightly different bc here people aren't really saying "mala is lurking, she lurks as scum, therefore she's scum", they're more saying "mala is lurking, lurking is scummy, therefore she's scum". the first point is one that she would take issue with, the second one much less so. then again idk if she's even read enough to know which is going on here

I don't think either of these are what they're saying at all? They're saying "mala is lurking, in a towngame she reacted much differently to being pushed for lurking, therefore she's scum"

ik what ari is saying. im talking about the distinction between the "being pushed for lurking" in the two games, so the earlier reasons for mala suspicions, not the current ones. in the linked game people were specifically making the argument that she had lurked it out a lot in recent scumgames, and that specifically was what she responded to emotionally, the idea that lurking was AI for her based on her meta

like in contrast this townread feels like it has a lot more nuanced thought involved than the vote, which is kind of ??? and I think maybe it's easier for fire to make good looking townreads on town than good looking scumreads on town.

[Aristeia]

So I'm not town because I don't post that much? I understand though, I don't like lurkers too! Speaking of, Malakittens hasn't posted yet has she?

I think the only slot I can meta is Mala. I played with Mala last game. Mala was lurking but she turned out to be Town so Mala!lurker doesn't equate to Mala!scum. But then again, I don't like lurkers. So for me, lurking can be a scum strategy, but given my meta on her, I'll let her go at least for now.

actually these two in combination is p sus as well

For what reason? I can think of a reason but want to know if it's what you're thinking

my reason is that they redirected accusations of lurking onto another slot, Mala, one that they later mentioned they had meta of her lurking as town. bringing her up specifically as the one to redirect on makes it feel to me like they knew that she was likely to continue lurking as town and thus would be an easy push to make

it doesn't really make sense from town bc i don't know why you make the first quote when you already have the knowledge in the second quote

like this feels more like a gotcha trial balloon than like an actual townie thought about "oooh i got him now"

hut's not trying to push mala, he's just saying she's lurking too and she lurks as town, which are two separate thoughts.

one thought is , "hey mala is also not posting what about her!" and the other thought is "mala lurked in the town game I shared with her"

The first thought is about excusing his own behavior and the second thought is eagerness to share the one piece of meta that he

did

have which isn't very useful to

him

as scum if mala is town and he is scum and mala is a leading wagon for

lurking

if anything it redirects attention to him.

If anything this thought imo makes even less sense for scum!hutmeil to share.

[Aristeia]

Spoiler: For Dats<3

[Aristeia]

no but just based on the first few pages i think you are

I love this spicy take

[Aristeia]

fwiw i still miss the boat party too <3

[Aristeia]

i do miss being pocketed by scumtisi he was so charming

[Aristeia]

its towards fire

[Aristeia]

eh it's a joke you'll either get it or you won't

[Aristeia]

who would you kill Baltar

[Aristeia]

atp I'm confused why fire has spent so much time talking to Datisi and so little time on sorting the person he's actually voting.

like um what even is the point of this conversation about whether Datisi busses Hutmeil or defends Hutmeil when you don't even know what Hutmeil's alignment is?

[Aristeia]

kind of doubt fire is bussing because

(1) in his only completed scum game so far he bussed and it did not work out

and

(2) I think he'd come up with a better case if he was actually bussing

[Aristeia]

dats/gamma townie

fire/vpb moderately scummy

everyone else feels like they are a shade of null.

[Aristeia]

I guess it's weird that for a 50 page game I feel like not much has actually happen'd :>

[Aristeia]

VPB should be limmed just for this gif list alone

[Aristeia]

fuming

[Aristeia]

well it's more of a comparative thing.

Your take on why Mala is town felt very well thought out and nuanced - you differentiate things from her POV and explain why her emotive reaction is different.

and your take on why hutmeil is mafia feels like not very thought out like something you're just doing because you feel like you have to

do something

and I think it makes sense for scum!you to put more effort into a correct town!read than an incorrect scum!read because you like to do things that are

correct

whereas if you're town it feels like not something you'd quite feel satisfied with.

[Aristeia]

i like those wagons. i think its a p reasonable bet that one of them is scum. prob not both but i could see it being either one. my choice would be hut so far but penguin is also a good choice

I also kind of think this is a weird take for someone who's voting with penguin to kill hut

[Aristeia]

you're such a gent fire

[Aristeia]

you're too nice to roll mafia, the alignment really doesn't suit you at all. <3

[Aristeia]

I am glad they liked your research Andante!

[Aristeia]

it's a holiday weekend in the US so I think it is a bit slow because of that. Hopefully people come back on Tuesday.

You sound so serious Dats <3

[Aristeia]

VPB is there a specific reason you are townreading fire atp?

[Aristeia]

ok and you feel

certain

about penguin or hutmeil?

[Aristeia]

I am reading your penguin progression and it doesn't make sense to me

you seem to suspect him for voting for hutmeil but you also seem to think hutmeil is fine to vote?

[Aristeia]

ok so why are you scumreading penguin?

[Aristeia]

it's just weird to me the whole exchange from 1079-1089.

1079: Penguin votes for hutmeil
1080: VPB: "The hutmeil wagon gives me majorly bad vibes as being too easy."
1084: VPB: "I can see momentum lazily shifting that way. I'm just calling it out before it takes off as a wagon of resignation.
Your vote seems bad to me especially."
1088: VPB: "if I think it's a bad wagon on a newbie, why is it weird?"
1089: VPB votes Penguin.

Like if you think Penguin is scum who is pushing a Lazy LHF wagon on Hutmeil why would you say;

"That being said, vote for Penguin or hutmeil in your next post if you're not already doing so." in 1356?

I don't really see the point of elimming hutmeil who you think is town just to get "information" that's just ??? to me.

[Aristeia]

PenguinPower is V/LA on weekends.

also like scumreading penguin for "disappearing" when he's VLA on weekends and this is a pretty big holiday weekend in the states feels kind of icky

[Aristeia]

"That being said, vote for Penguin or hutmeil in your next post if you're not already doing so." in 1356?

I don't really see the point of elimming hutmeil who you think is town just to get "information" that's just ??? to me.

This is where you are getting into dumbshit territory. All you can do on a D1 is push what you think is the best elim, and most times that is wrong. Getting information from a misyeet is at least salvaging something from the likelihood we miselim on D1.

You have definitely played enough games to know this.

You also gain information if you yeet someone you suspect and they turn out to be town.

Do you have an example of a completed game where you are "ok" with limming someone you think is town just for "information" ?

[Aristeia]

PenguinPower is V/LA on weekends.

also like scumreading penguin for "disappearing" when he's VLA on weekends and this is a pretty big holiday weekend in the states feels kind of icky

He also hasn't posted since Thursday. So this is a level zero take.

The weekend happens after Thursday, I don't see why you are confident he has disappeared because his alignment is mafia rather than because he had RL plans for this weekend and happens to not have access or doesn't want to play during the weekend because he is maybe enjoying himself.

[Aristeia]

Do you have an example of a completed game where you are "ok" with limming someone you think is town just for "information" ?

I'm not voting for hutmeil. Why are you acting like I'm endorsing his yeet as if I am?

Yeah, I think the Americans are less than tuned into mafia this weekend (myself included).

That being said, vote for Penguin or hutmeil in your next post if you're not already doing so.

I think 1356 is basically an endorsement

[Aristeia]

well the point I am making is that your posting is incongruent. You say you are scumreading Peng for his hutmeil vote but you seem fine with hutmeil being voted out. That feels more like scum exploiting t-t than town with a scumread.

[Aristeia]

also not mentioning the third wagon of fire feels like soft defending him without really naming him

[Aristeia]

Mini 2195, I voted Italiano on a whim because the game was dragging and we needed a lim to move it forward with information. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=85877&start=1625

skimmed a bit of this and I will read it later when I have time because it looks like Dats put you in his pocket all the way till elo and let you cast the losing vote which is fun.

[Aristeia]

do you actually believe that or do you just think it sounds good as a comeback?

[Aristeia]

I find your reasons for wanting to yeet penguin not very compelling and I find your proposed dichotomy suspicious.

[Aristeia]

do you actually believe that or do you just think it sounds good as a comeback?

I don't think you're making a good faith point here, so clearly you have some motivation that is not transparent.

a hard defense by definition is to say someone is town because ?insertgoodreasonhere?.

I have not hard defended penguin because I do not even have a townread on penguin.

[Aristeia]

well it's more of a comparative thing.

Your take on why Mala is town felt very well thought out and nuanced - you differentiate things from her POV and explain why her emotive reaction is different.

and your take on why hutmeil is mafia feels like not very thought out like something you're just doing because you feel like you have to

do something

and I think it makes sense for scum!you to put more effort into a correct town!read than an incorrect scum!read because you like to do things that are

correct

whereas if you're town it feels like not something you'd quite feel satisfied with.

[Aristeia]

yes

[Aristeia]

His resistance around voting despite claiming he loves wagons.

when you say resistance against voting

why does this apply to penguin but not fireisredsir?

for example fire has 4 votes in 139 posts.

penguin voted 5 times in 54 posts.

[Aristeia]

hutmeil (5): GeorgeBailey, fireisredsir, PenguinPower, Andante, Something_Smart
PenguinPower (5): VP Baltar, implosion, Datisi, Gamma, Hutmeil
fireisredsir (2): Aristeia, Save The Dragons
Gamma Emerald (1): Malakittens



I don't like either wagon atm. I'll wait for Penguin to catch up to make a decision on whether to vote there. Currently leaning towards voting Penguin but I don't like it.

[Aristeia]

ari is there more to your gamma townread than what you said in 727?

I think on meta gamma!scum tends to be more friendly and conciliatory while gamma!town tends to be more antagonistic and angry.