Open 473: Jungle Republic GAME OVER

[Rob14]

Confirm.

[Rob14]

Hey, I know five people on this playerlist. That's the most yet. I'm meeting people. Yay me.

Vote: Human

It seems like you're everywhere all of a sudden. And yes, the above was intentional. Deal with it.

[Rob14]

Thor's case was intentionally poor. He's a better player than that as both alignments. It was a fairly blatant attempt to see who would sheep a faulty case.

Vote: Alduskkel

Liking this wagon. Post #38 (specifically the second half) is designed for some easy town-cred while not actually doing anything. The claimed concern with quickly getting out of RVS is at odds with all the other posting that has occurred from him, which has had no sense of urgency and no indication of scum-hunting.

[Rob14]

^EBWOP: Liking this vote, not this wagon. It should become a wagon, though.

[Rob14]

More votes and pressure on Alduskkel-scum, please.

[Rob14]

More votes and pressure on Alduskkel-scum, please.

There's also a ProHawk *and* a Thor wagon - surely there should be a wagon out there on a player you don't think is blindingly obv. town.
C'mon people, this isn't rocket science, it's mafia.

Who was that directed at, specifically?

[Rob14]

More votes and pressure on Alduskkel-scum, please.

There's also a ProHawk *and* a Thor wagon - surely there should be a wagon out there on a player you don't think is blindingly obv. town.
C'mon people, this isn't rocket science, it's mafia.

Who was that directed at, specifically?

[Rob14]

Thanks for answering for Thor, Whiskers. Congrats, that's the first actually scummy thing you've done all game. I had brushed off your earlier interactions with Thor as childish admiration, but I'm going to upgrade it to possible scum-buddies.

Still want your answer, Thor.

[Rob14]

Oops, missed that Thor because I was looking for player names in your answer. So you didn't have any particular player names of people you thought were acting like all three wagons were obvtown when you posted that?

[Rob14]

I need to re-read ProHawk in NY 159 where he was town, but I don't remember him being this aggressive or snarky as town. There's a few things I've seen that make me think he's possibly scum. I'll come back with findings tomorrow sometime.

[Rob14]

don't like how he is following the crowd and flying under the radar here.

Actually, only Rob was voting him at the time I voted; sheeping one person's vote isn't really following the crowd.

This is why I'm not a fan of 4nx at the moment. The RVS point that he made is not indicative of alignment because it's something that scum could easily insert in to help them look town.

[Rob14]

Could you explain what brought you to your conclusion on Thor, Majiffy?

I have not found HD's play so far to be scummy. Look at his meta. He's a new player that doesn't fully know how to play yet. He looks somewhat scummy regardless of alignment. I haven't seen anything blatantly scum-motivated from him yet. He's still a null read for me based on my knowledge of his prior play.

Alduskkel is still looking scummy to me. In addition to him, my other scum-reads are ProHawk and Sky. Out of those reads, ProHawk is probably the most scummy but I want at least one more post from Alduskkel before I move my vote.

P-edit: Speak of the devil! Didn't change my read on him at all.

Unvote
Vote: ProHawk

[Rob14]

My reads are independent of each other before I know people's alignments for sure (i.e. lynched or night-killed). Here's a comprehensive explanation from a game that just finished:

My reads are independent of each other. From several games worth of speculating scum teams from Day 1, I realized it doesn't work - at all. I've never accurately guessed a scum-team on Day 1, but I often do find at least one scum among my initial scum reads. I've been burned enough times from assuming a flip when compiling a read on someone else that I've stopped doing it.

I do speculate to some degree by thinking of hypotheticals (if A is scum, then B is probably also scum; if A is town, then C might be scum; etc), but those don't affect my read of the second person (B and C, in the prior example) until post-flip.

I've covered why you were scummy in the past. Not going to rehash my old thoughts on you. See post #44.

[Rob14]

And if that's not "caught for the wrong reasons", I don't know what is. Will eventually lay down my case on you, but that will take a while and I have things to do today, so you'll have to wait on that until tomorrow, probably.

[Rob14]

@Everypony: I'm drawing a connection between Rob13 and Human Destroyer. As soon as an HD lynch comes on the table Rob loses his cool, doing such outrageous things as hopping on the biggest wagon and threatening to make a case.

Nice to know that stating my reads and stating that I will make a case when I have time are losing my cool and make "threats", respectively. You have an outstanding gift for overstatement.

Will still post my ProHawk analysis first-thing tomorrow. Twas a busy day.

[Rob14]

IT'S WALL TIME!

Here's my ProHawk case. But first, I'd like to mention that my Alduskkel read has slipped back to nullish. I re-read his ISO and the case wasn't that strong as compared to other reads I have. I might revisit him in the future when he has more content out. Whiskers is pinging a bit recently, but that's a discussion for another time. I'll follow up on that in a later post.

#25 is a bad reason to vote someone. "I think the reasoning for the vote on you is absolutely stupid, but you didn't respond to it, so you're scum" No. I wouldn't have responded to it either as town. The vote was so incredibly rediculous (lurking on page 1, lolwut?) that I wouldn't have even given it the time of day. I mean, what would you expect his response to be? Were you looking for a "You're an idiot" post from him? Now, this vote itself isn't an issue for me because it's page 1 and you're looking for a good place to vote. The strength with which you defend your vote in subsequent posts is a problem. You're making way more of an issue out of this than it really is. It seems forced to me.

#30 is not good. I do not like it. This two steps behind nonsense which you kept bringing up in subsequent posts is bad rhetoric. I agree with whiskers here to a degree. You're playing to Thor's ego and buddying up to him. This is not indicative of Thor's alignment, but it is indicative of yours.

This type of silly rhetoric is continued in #51. You're using fancy rhetoric instead of actually refuting the things that Whiskers is saying.

#72 is refusing to engage Whiskers. As town, I typically want to engage my scum reads to prove that they're wrong/scummy. Now, this certainly isn't the only way to play, but I don't see the town motivation in refusing to debate with Whiskers. There is certainly scum motivation in non-engagement, however.

#79 is more fancy rhetoric. Rhetoric over substance is a scum-tell in my opinion, when rhetoric isn't in your town meta (it's not, in ProHawk's case).

#91 made my scumdar ping a bit. This one is kind of gut, but the way in which ProHawk concedes that the argument he was using before is wrong but Whiskers is still scummy anyway doesn't sit well with me. It seems like he's focused too much on Whiskers for whatever reason. He hasn't really questioned anyone else, except for his relatively weak vote on Alduskkel (who he notably hasn't pressured much at all).

#96 is more fancy rhetoric.

#99 and suddenly Whiskers is null despite you pushing him as scum as recently as #91. You also say you're pursuing other directions, but you really aren't. You have your vote out on Alduskkel with no pressure. You haven't questioned him at all or built any case on him.

#103 is more playing to Thor's ego/buddying up to him. ProHawk could have just said, "could you explain that more" or something to that effect. Instead, he's saying that Thor is several steps ahead of him and will have to dumb things down to his level. That doesn't seem like the natural way for someone to phrase the message he's attempting to communicate.

#115 tries to tell me which game I should look at if I do meta analysis. No. Do not want. If I'm going to analyze your meta, I'm not going to let you choose the games I do it with. I'll choose your most recent games and read them. The fact that you're pointing me in a specific direction with regards to your meta is a red flag.

#146 has a few things. He puts me down as town because I'm not voting him or pressuring him yet. That's literally his reason. The Aldus read looks weak and it isn't supported very well. Has fully flipped his read on Whiskers despite focusing on him heavily early on. This last bit is gut, but the transition in his read of Whiskers doesn't feel genuine to me at all.

#165 is hard for me to explain, but it reads to me like he's caught for the wrong reasons. To clarify that based on a question ProHawk posed in #190, that means that I think ProHawk thinks that the reasons I'm using are wrong and unfair, but the conclusion is correct.

Out of all thats happened, I look the most scummy?

Why do you guys want to pick the non-obvious scum who actually isn't scum?

I haven't seen one good case for why I am scum and people keep jumping all over me.

This is the bit that is making me feel that way about this post. Especially the bolded bit reads to me like you're annoyed that you're being attacked for the wrong reasons. The "who actually isn't scum" bit is thrown in as an afterthought almost. I don't think town would call themselves "the non-obvious scum," even with a qualifer like "who actually isn't scum" after it. They would call themselves "a null read at worst" or "an obvious townie". Maybe this is only gut, as it's very different for me to explain, but this post gives me the impressions that you're pissed at the reasons people have caught onto you, not at the conclusion that you're scummy. Let me know if that doesn't make sense.

P-edit: In response to your comment towards me, Alduskkel, I don't see a connection between post #47 and post #44. If there is one, it doesn't adequately explain away my early suspicions.

[Rob14]

In order:

Limited time and you aren't at the top of my list of scum-reads. Also, your pressure on Sky in #167 read as genuine to me. The above post also makes me think you're genuinely scum-hunting. I wouldn't even put you in the scum read column at the moment.

No. Your post #52 was not scummy, in my opinion, and that was the entirety of Tajun's case. I had a null read on you up until #111, which gave me a slight scum read (which has since reversed itself).

No. If I expected all townies to have the same reads and follow the same leads as I did, then I would just play a game with myself. Your easing off of ProHawk reads genuine to me. You were asking him questions posts prior to where you unvoted him, which seems like a real attempt to figure out his alignment, and you didn't join another main wagon when getting off of the ProHawk wagon. This doesn't read as scum trying to get off their partner's wagon in a subtle manner. If you did that, I would expect to see you hop onto an existing competing wagon and make a more sudden change over. The whole transition reads town to me.

I'm talking myself into a stronger town read on you as I type this. I wouldn't call you strong town yet, but definitely a town read.

[Rob14]

Yes, as long as the two idiots at engame realize that 2 idiots + Thor at endgame = Thor is scum.

The WIFOM logic you're using is exactly why scum would potentially leave Thor alive. Thor being alive in LyLo does not, by itself, guarantee that he is scum.

[Rob14]

Good job not addressing my suspicion of you, though. Ignoring things really makes the problems go away.

What is there to address? You've offered no evidence to support your claim. Do you want me to say "nuh-uh"? As soon as you offer some evidence and support your conclusion, then I'll offer my rebuttal.

I'll admit I won all those lylos for town, but...

I distinctly recall one case where you did not.

[Rob14]

I distinctly recall one case where you did not.

I thought my 3 man record was unblemished this year - which am I forgetting?

That newbie game where

you replaced into a near-impossible situation

I kicked your ass.

[Rob14]

Yes, it does. Well, if you replace rudeness with calling out the mod in-thread on a decision they made, then yes.

[Rob14]

This is entirely off-topic. Back to the game.

Thor, what is your opinion on ProHawk? From a quick glance at your ISO, you haven't discussed this very much.

P-edit: Waiting for some more posting by Whiskers. She was in my town column for most of the game. Some of her #181 pinged for me, though. She's not someone I would want to lynch today for sure.

[Rob14]

She's not someone I would want to lynch today for sure.

Why?

She was a town read for me until recently. Right now I would call her null. I want to see more to determine alignment before I push her lynch. I think a flip or two might help me determine her alignment, so I'd prefer to wait on those. Of course, if she were to do anything extremely scummy I would reconsider.

[Rob14]

Oh! Err... what can I do for you?

I'm not waiting for anything specific. I just need additional content to develop a more complete read because I'm somewhat conflicted on you at the moment. I'm waiting for you to post more of anything really in order to give me more to work with in formulating a read of you. You haven't been unsatisfactory in your activity or responding to things directed your way, though.

(And yes I'm aware there's a small wagon on me but I don't think the reasons for it are very founded at all so I'm going to choose to ignore it)

Not sure if scummy or just acting like normal HD...

Note to self: meta check time

[Rob14]

Rob, you are faking the whole meta check thing, you didn't even come close to reading my meta.

I never read your meta. I said in my last post that I wanted to check HD's meta. You =/= HD

[Rob14]

I said in one place that I hadn't seen rhetoric over substance from you before. I didn't see it at all when I played with you in a game where you were town, but I didn't go reading multiple games to check your full meta. Typically, someone is either rhetorically fancy everywhere or nowhere as town. You aren't going to break out some fancy rhetoric in only half of your town games because it's either a part of the way you talk or it isn't. I don't feel the need to look deeper into your town meta when I saw literally no indication of anything even approaching this in the game I played with you.

That was not anywhere close to my full case on you, either way. It was a small part. You haven't addressed anything else in my case, which you said you would after I built it.

[Rob14]

You realize his top scum read in #225 is where his vote is right now, correct? Did you want him to unvote and revote for the same person?

I am, on the other hand, curious about how quickly uctriton's read on ProHawk developed. He had ProHawk as scum early in #225 but revised that read to starting to look town by the time his catch-up post got to page 7. Then, suddenly ProHawk is scum on #241 again. That's a really sudden change that wasn't well explained. Doesn't read as a natural transition to me.

[Rob14]

That's a really sudden change that wasn't well explained.

Re-read 241 kthx

Okay.

Pro hawk re-read your last post to yourself out loud.

Rhetoric and nothing else.

In addition, you said a bunch of people find you scummy and thus there's nothing you can do about it. Yeah... No. Town fight to make sure they're not lunched and don't need to be "ok" with townies wasting votes on them.

Anti-town =/= Scummy. It's ideal play for both alignments to make sure they're not lynched, so I don't see your point here.

And now you called out people who bring their bus theories to the table. This game is played on a computer, do you not want us to share info?

Don't even know what you're referring to here.

You reacted to my reads and other posts with three hard scum tells. This is unbelievable.

Rhetoric. Also you gave two reasons, not three.

Pro hawk scum.

And out of all that, you got a solid scum read. Your reasoning was not good. I don't buy your explanation of why you switched onto ProHawk being scum. I stand by what I said before.

[Rob14]

Well that's more understandable. The first point is good. The second point is still wrong, as anti-town and scummy are not the same thing.

The third point is also wrong. People bringing up the idea of bussing before we have a scum flip is dumb. Assuming that your read on one person is correct pre-flip as the basis for your read on someone else (i.e. that they're bussing scum) is stupid. It sets you up for failure and leads to entirely useless reads if your assumption proves false. You have to start from square one again, in that case. Instead, the best play is to evaluate each person's play separately and then look for interactions and motivations after the flip in the next day. You might want to make a quick note that there is a connection between Player A and Player B in your notes and that it's worth looking at later, so you don't forget what you saw, but it's definitely not worth discussing in thread.

Now, the above is just my opinion and many people would disagree with me. But I have that opinion without regard to my alignment. Holding that philosophy on the formation of reads is not scummy in itself. If it is, then I guess I should be lynched in every game going forward.

[Rob14]

Rob just looks worse and worse as this day goes on.

Want to clarify on why so I can defend against your accusations, or are just content to toss around my name a few more times?

[Rob14]

Your attack of Uct is complete fabrication.

And what's your evidence for this? My god, this is like pulling teeth.

[Rob14]

Rob is posting about a mile a minute and I don't really know what he's saying.

A lot of rhetoric can't be a good thing.

But I don't think he's a good lynch for today.

Give me a single example of me posting rhetoric without substance.

[Rob14]

I have given up so long as I am useless to the town. As soon as anyone cares to hear from me, I will be more than glad to join the fray.

Rob, what I mean is, I don't know what you're talking about when you say rhetoric. You say it so much and it's really confusing me. It's like rhetoric in itself. We all use rhetoric in the traditional sense. It's the art of persuasion, plain and simple. When you call someone out on bad rhetoric, I don't even know what that means. They are bad at persuading people?

I'm calling him out on rhetoric over substance. It's basically when someone uses various rhetorical devices in their speech without actually providing any content or substance behind what they're saying. For example, see posts where he responded to Whiskers early on and said that Thor was one step ahead of her and she was two steps behind. He wasn't arguing anything. He provided no examples or substance in his post. He just put in some fancy rhetorical language and let it stand by itself. I guess this tell is similar to fluff, in one sense, but it's more than that. He's spending time in phrasing how his posts will read (the rhetoric) without spending time in making sure they're meaningful and content-filled. Which alignment does something like that?

[Rob14]

^I've had a mostly nullish read on Majiffy, but move him into my town column for those last two posts.

[Rob14]

It was the way in which he challenged Thor, not his support of your lynch.

[Rob14]

Who's flips would you like to see for determining his alignments? Do you see obvious potential partners, or what?

I don't discuss hypotheticals. I have some stuff in my notes, but it's all contingent on my assumptions regarding the alignments of others being correct, which is not always the case. Discussing a hypothetical situation for IF we lynch a specific person and IF that person flips scum is a waste of the town's time.

---

I stopped reading the Majiffy v Thor slap-fight around half a page ago. Answer this for me, Majiffy. What is the scum motivation for what Thor's done? It looks to me like you're splitting hairs with him over the exact meaning of his original post without actually establishing that scum-Thor would be more likely than town-Thor to do all this.

[Rob14]

Oh, by the way, Aldus is still scum, you guys should all join his wagon

Tell me why. I don't see him as that bad anymore.

[Rob14]

But first, I'd like to mention that my Alduskkel read has slipped back to nullish. I re-read his ISO and the case wasn't that strong as compared to other reads I have. I might revisit him in the future when he has more content out.

[Rob14]

My early suspicions are just that - early. They weren't that substantial. Don't get me wrong - Alduskkel is still on the scummy side of null. He's certainly not screaming townie. He also hasn't acted as scummy as my other scum reads, though.

In other words, think of my reads like a line. Early on, Alduskkel was the player closest to the scum side of the line, but he still was never terribly far from the center. Alduskkel hasn't moved on the line, but other people have moved past him by doing things that are more scummy than him.

[Rob14]

If you can't give me a solid scum motivation, then I can't give you a vote.

If there's a lack of town motivation AND a lack of scum motivation, then all you've determined is that Thor is playing stupidly. Now THAT is an idea I can get behind, but it doesn't warrant my vote.

[Rob14]

There's no scum motivation for it that I can see.

[Rob14]

Now that's better and what I was looking for. I wanted to see how long it would take you to prove that for me, because up until that last post, you were like Thor v2. You were claiming he was obviously scummy without proving a scum motivation. You were avoiding backing up what you were saying, which was making me question your motivations.

I would like Thor's response to #433 before moving my vote. Do you think Majiffy was at all unfair in his analysis? You said earlier that your argument with Majiffy had gotten you nowhere with regards to a read of him. Has that changed? What is your current read of him?

[Rob14]

Pedantic and kinda derp.

But you have no flaws in his logic and you think he gave you a fair shake? Well, if that's the case then you're scum.

Unvote
Vote Thor

[Rob14]

Rob, if you're town, you are the biggest pain in the ass to get to do anything.

Some of that is intentional.

[Rob14]

I've been struggling with HD's alignment in this game, but I'm pretty sure he's scum after that last exchange.

Refusing to restate Majiffy's argument in #483 and then offering the arguments in Majiffy's words in #486 makes me think he's being opportunistic and doesn't necessarily understand or agree with Majiffy's argument. In addition to this, as Thor pointed out, in #489 HD expresses that he doesn't fully recall Thor's side of the argument. If you're voting Thor for his side of the argument, then how do you not remember it?

He also didn't respond to ANY of Thor's responses to Majiffy's argument since the wagon on Thor began to build when he cast his vote, which suggests to me that he didn't read them.

Unvote
Vote: HD

[Rob14]

Just realized my vote on HD was L-1. Don't quick-hammer.

Also, "stagnated wagon"? Are we in the same game?

His was the largest wagon other than yours. It's the thing that has been talked about the most recently. You moved your vote off of Alduskkel, which WAS a stagnated wagon and onto the wagon that's more-or-less competing with yours.

[Rob14]

The Thor v Majiffy slap-fight dominated pages and pages of discussion. It was the most active wagon (other than your own) at the time you voted. Let's take a moment and try something. Tell me what you would have done differently if you were scum. Which wagon would you have supported instead of Thor's? Provide your rationale.

Pro tip: It doesn't exist. The best wagon for scum-HD to support if he was looking to boost a counter-wagon to his own would be Thor's.

[Rob14]

ProHawk was at two votes at the time you changed votes (same as Thor). The difference between ProHawk and Thor at the time was that the Thor wagon was being talked about and dominating discussion while the ProHawk wagon was falling off.

Try again.

[Rob14]

Not necessarily. The Alduskkel wagon was just as big as the ProHawk wagon at one point and Alduskkel wasn't even in-thread defending himself. Scum that wants to lay low would stay on the Alduskkel wagon to avoid drawing attention to themselves.

[Rob14]

Do you think ProHawk has acted scummy?

[Rob14]

@HD:

Could you rate Alduskkel, ProHawk, and Thor on a scale of 1-10 for me with 1 being definite town and 10 being definite scum? That will probably make it easier for me to wrap my head around what your position is right now, because it's kind of confusing me at the moment.

[Rob14]

V/LA until Monday. Moving back to college Saturday and then I have an absurd amount of meetings and stuff Sunday.

[Rob14]

I'm off V/LA now. I kept up somewhat with this game while on V/LA, but frankly discussion seems to have stalled. Thor and Majiffy are essentially using the same arguments against each other. They're both being lazy hypocrites. Thor's being more upfront about it than Majiffy. Both of them are starting to look like complete null to me.

Sky's looking more townish in my book. His direct interaction with 4nx doesn't look to be coming from scum, in my opinion.

Lastly, HD's recent posting is not scum-HD, at least not that I remember. HD gives up much quicker than he did as scum. He doesn't keep scumhunting and broadcasting reads.

That leaves me with literally one scum read in ProHawk, which is fucking pathetic in a game where 5/12 players are scum. I fail.

Unvote
Vote ProHawk

[Rob14]

Did he give up quicker as scum (and could you post a link)?

I probably should not say anything else regarding this because it relates to an ongoing game.

[Rob14]

Is there any actual case against Alduskkel at this point other than the fact that he's chronically absent?

[Rob14]

It's certainly not the best, either. Why not hold out for a replacement?

[Rob14]

Stating intent to hammer.

Why do you think Aldus is scummy?

Also, what is your current opinion of ProHawk?

[Rob14]

I don't like how you lept (leapt?) off Aldu to put the ProHawk wagon in the position to tie with it.

I think that relational tell is invalid unless Aldu flips scum. If Aldu flips scum, then HD would be obvScum due to the switch.

You seem pretty transparent to me HD.

You don't do much when you aren't then center of attention. When you are, you post like a mad-man. You lurk with the excuse you are lazy.

You say little things about me, like you have some gut-scum read on me without making any specific attacks, pretty much attack Ald the whole day and then suddenly when it all matters (one day before the deadline), its Ald is town, and Hawk is scum.

Spoiler: Evidence

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Alduskkel

I'm surprised that wall actually convinced me to unvote Whiskers. Oh well, it did.

Alduskkel's posting still hasn't satisfied me, plus he hasn't reacted very much to the votes on him.

(And yes I'm aware there's a small wagon on me but I don't think the reasons for it are very founded at all so I'm going to choose to ignore it)

Still a bit early in the day, is it not?

Ugh I haven't been playing this game enough, I need to get into it more

Rob doesn't really read scum to me

ProHawk is playing...weird. I can't fathom why, but his general attitude just feels...off? I can't really describe it.

Aldus is still the best lynch though.

Why vote me if you prefer Whiskers?

Oh, by the way,

Aldus is still scum

, you guys should all join his wagon

Yeah but people will get kinda skeptical on an inactive wagon when they don't provide any new scummy material

ProHawk has so many posts that scum can just jump all over and devour like honey on a spoon

VOTE: Alduskkel

He was online and watching the thread, but he chose not to respond.

Tut tut.

Oh I missed #697

Disregard that

Anyway both competing wagons are cool but

Aldus gives me bad tummy feelings that I can't place

so I'mma stay on him for now

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ProHawk

Whatever you wanna think guy

Won't matter to anyone when you flip scum anyways

Also you've been doin the exact same thing, have you not?

This, on the other hand, is bad now. Not only would a scum-flip NOT make the person's scum-hunting invalid because they would still have hunted the other team, but also you don't respond to anything PH said.

[Rob14]

If it's the difference between a lynch and a no lynch, I'll switch over to Alduskkel. We could do worse than lynching a completely useless lurker on Day 1. I'll make sure to check the thread at like 6PM tomorrow to see if I need to do that. Of course, there's still time for a ProHawk lynch.

[Rob14]

Vote: ProHawk

Not only do my last day's suspicions more-or-less carry over (the flips didn't really effect them a huge amount), but ProHawk just fully analyzed the werewolf flip while completely ignoring the goon flip. Mafia much?

[Rob14]

And back to the refusing to respond to anything goes ProHawk.

[Rob14]

Rob, as town I could care-less if I kill a wolf, or mafia. So if I have glaringly obvious wolf-associations, why would I spend a ton of time looking for mafia associations? Not to mention the day literally just started. My question to you is, why don't you want to lynch a wolf?

Why wouldn't you look at both leads and see what pings? Why restrict yourself to one at all?

Also, the insinuation you made with your leading question at the end there is pretty stupid, to be honest. If I were a werewolf, I would have no motivation to stop you from lynching wolves because you would have four incorrect leads, as I would have to be the only one left in that scenario. What was your goal with that leading question?

[Rob14]

Majiffy, you missed a reason why Whiskers post was terri-bad. I never had a town read on Aldu - I had a null.

[Rob14]

Majiffy/Whiskers: Could you both sum up what your wall-fight was about at the end of Day 1? I'm somewhat interested now that I have developing reads on the both of you, but ain't no one got time to read that shit.

[Rob14]

Whiskers, you're ignoring the obvious. Majiffy is lazy. He voted me and said to himself, "eh - i'll do a case whenever" and then by the time whenever rolled about he didn't think I was scum anymore

We're not having another Whiskers v Majiffy wall fight. It's not allowed. You are all limited to two quotes per post when talking to each other. No exceptions.

[Rob14]

Vote: Whiskers

Okay, you've sold it to me Majiffy.

[Rob14]

Well I can tell you I'm not mafia and I'm not a wolf

So that's wrong

I was disproving why we couldn't be scum together so therefore it didn't matter if you didn't posit it

Several times, HD has been saying essentially this:

Well, I'm not scum, so your argument is wrong.

That's the logical equivalent of saying this:

Well, the bible says God is real, so he must be real.

Yeah, that's right, I'm tackling both religion and the scum-team in one fell swoop.

Why do you think HD is mafia over a wolf, Majiffy? His hop off of Aldu looked like hardcore "WTF I DIDNT THINK MY BUSSING WOULD LEAD TO ANYTHING FFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU" and then hopping off. Based on HD's past play, I can see him doing something this obvious as scum.

[Rob14]

^Note that it's L-2, not L-1 as Majiffy said earlier.

[Rob14]

Go back and tell me who each one of your nameless quotes was from and then I'll read your wall. This is posting 101, guys.

P-edit: What HD said, I guess. I doubt my area will be hit bad, though.

[Rob14]

^Note that it's L-2, not L-1 as Majiffy said earlier.

Did somebody hop off? I could have sworn there was 5.

You hopped off onto Thor much earlier and then came back. Maybe you counted

yourself

twice? lol

[Rob14]

^Whiskers/Tajun remaining mafia-team alert. Tajun calls Whiskers scummy but doesn't vote him for the past page or three and then coaches him in the above post.

[Rob14]

b) If I was his partner, I would have done any coaching in QT. A tad blatant there, no?

You would have done what coaching you thought necessary at the end of Day 1 in the QT. Stuff has happened though, and you may have more advice to give.

Also, this is a reverse Too Townie argument. Blatant scum is still scum.

[Rob14]

Lets see... your last post before the end of the day was a vote for Sky (a non-wagon) approximately 46 hours before the deadline. You had previously expressed interest in lynching Aldu, but decided to change your mind-last-minute. HD and Whiskers then jump in to even up the odds to save Aldus by forcing me to be the counter-wagon. If everyone were to stay fast on their respective wagons, the deciding factor would have been down to you and Anxiety. Anxiety made his choice, however you didn't make a peep. There were about 80 posts from your last post until the end of the day and you didn't say one thing about it.

Evidence also points to you being on-site during that time, whilst you failed to post in this game.

Nevermind, Prohawk probably isn't scum.

[Rob14]

The storm didn't hit my area bad. I just don't really have anything to say. My thoughts have stayed the same. Whiskers is not looking good. Majiffy is looking almost constantly better.

[Rob14]

People who aren't voting Whiskers...why?

[Rob14]

My WIFOM senses

They are tingling

(with Whiskers)

And yeah, I'll admit, that's subject to WIFOM. But in my experience, trying to get townies to drink the wine doesn't pay off. It's way more valuable to kill someone making you look bad (or PR hunting, the sole reason WolfWhiskers would have shot MafiaUnc) that to put yourself in a bad position and try to WIFOM your way out of it.

You just WIFOM'd your WIFOM. I give you props for trying the WIFOMx2, but it's a loldefense.

[Rob14]

I seriously don't get why Whiskers isn't dead yet. It's pretty much universally agreed here that she's WW; while Thor and Sky are likely to be scum, they're a smaller threat (especially since they can't kill). Why on earth are you splitting the vote on this?

All I can say is that if Whiskers flips mafia, I know who I'll be going after next.

[Rob14]

Whiskers, your defense is silly.

Having lied would have made you more scummy. Not having lied doesn't make you more town, however.

[Rob14]

As for uct:
saying 'thor townslipped' and then not placing you in his townreads is very odd.
was he trying to buddy up to you?
was he trying to tie himself to you?
most likely he was wary of placing a buddy in the town section after being called out for the use of the term townslip.

This is a great point and something I had missed.

Either way, Whiskers is today's lynch. Multiple people who aren't voting him have him in the scum column (Thor and Sky IIRC) but are refusing to vote because they'd rather vote one person they think is scum over another person they think is scum. That makes me uneasy. Why are you so reluctant to hammer a scum-read? It doesn't make sense.

This game is dragging horribly. Just hammer and be done with it.

[Rob14]

@Rob - Sky has claimed Whiskers as a strong town read - try to keep up.
I have called her scummy though.
What's your read on Sky?

Early scum read on Day 1. Nothing too memorable Day 2. I need to re-read a lot of what's happened recently because I keep going to do it and my eyes glaze over at all the walls and useless nonsense.

[Rob14]

Went back and read some stuff. Today Sky seems more genuine and I don't see the pattern of his voting and read development on Whiskers as either town or scum.

If Sky is scum and Whiskers is on the other team (meaning Sky is the wolf), then he would not be defending Whiskers or pulling off of that read when he had suspicions of Whiskers going all the way back to early Day 1. He'd easily be able to hammer and look genuine doing it. The same holds true for if Sky is scum and Whiskers is town.

If Sky is scum with Whiskers, then he was bussing early when Whiskers had a wagon on him. I don't see why he would be so willing to bus early, but not willing at all to bus later in that same day or this day. Not seeing it. I guess it could be because they lost a team member, but that also raises some issues. Uct pushed Sky pretty hard in the last game day. I don't see that interaction as scum v scum.

So Sky is a weak town read of mine. There's not a whole lot there that rings ObvTown, but there's a whole lot that points to "not scum" in my opinion.

[Rob14]

I never called you out for willingness to bus shifting. Maybe you're interpreting something weird, but please point out what you mean exactly.

I don't think that it is plausible that Sky was entirely willing to bus early Day 1, pulls off his partner late Day 1 for no reason (making it look like a genuine transition as well), and then against bussing entirely Day 2 when it's obvious that his potential partner is going down. That in combination with the uct stuff makes me think Sky cannot be scum with uct and Whiskers.

[Rob14]

Adding onto Majiffy's points regarding "butting in", it should be recognized that Whiskers is attempting to talk to people in a vacuum. He doesn't want anyone to comment on his responses or the conversations he's having with others in-thread, which is what he "called out" Majiffy for doing. (Is that even a call out? lol)

This is inherently anti-town because it stifles discussion. It's also quite scummy if he wants people not to be analyzing his actions.

[Rob14]

Thor, there's a big difference between refusing to vote a scum read and refusing to vote a town read. You have Whiskers as scum. You refuse to vote him despite this and are even fighting his wagon, as you yourself just said. That's weird. It makes me uneasy. This has nothing to do with willingness to bus. It has everything to do with actively fighting against the wagon of a scum-read. It just doesn't make much sense.

On the other hand, Sky gradually transitioned from a scum to a town read on Whiskers in a way that reads genuine to me. I don't think that he would bus hard early and then make such a smooth transition to a town read. I'm not seeing it.

You're considering two entirely different situations and calling them the same to make it seem like I'm not making sense. I don't like that much either. If Whiskers flips maf, you're probably the last one.

P-edit: lol Tajun. ProHawk minus the smart. Nice. It's not like you've spent any time at all trying to understand what I'm saying. You've been following Thor on what he's said about me instead of coming up with any independent thoughts. As I pointed out above, Thor was wrong, meaning you are wrong.

[Rob14]

Whiskers is still scum. You're null, but I see you as relationally-linked to Whiskers due to your odd defense of a scum-read. If Whiskers flipped mafia, I would consider you mafia. Otherwise, I'm still at null on you.

The transition was simple.

Early Day 1: Whiskers was scum.
Middle-late Day 1: Whiskers was no longer scum, null at worst after re-reading the thread. This was BEFORE the uct flip, so that wasn't the cause for the transition.
Day 2: Whiskers is town.

I see that as a somewhat smooth transition. I don't see the reasoning behind scum bussing hard in the early day when Whiskers is a target but not bussing and changing the read in the later day when Whiskers wasn't a target. If anything, Sky was acting opportunistic Day 1 by hopping on Whiskers when that was popular and then looking elsewhere when the fad died out. But I see the complete opposite in this game day, so I don't think that's what happened in Day 1. I think the read genuinely changed.

[Rob14]

Will find later. I have a lot to do today and don't have time to re-read through again to get the number.

[Rob14]

Post #568, Sky both brings some points against Whiskers and shows why he originally suspected her and also concludes that he's starting to shift towards town for a Whiskers read. I interpreted that as a gradual transition. He still has reasons for Whiskers to be scummy, which he presented, but he also is starting to see some town stuff as well.

[Rob14]

But he provided some backing in that very post, so I don't consider that a hugely compelling argument.

Could you explain why your vote just shifted and why it didn't shift to the largest wagon which is on one of your scum-reads?

[Rob14]

Could you explain your lack of desire for scumhunting today considering how by me asking you two questions I already changed your read on someone and you seeming to not grok that maybe I'm actually doing something over here?

Answer my question. I too am trying to do something here.

[Rob14]

Thor, you did not explain your vote on ProHawk, which is what I asked you to do, nor did you explain why you view ProHawk as more scummy than Whiskers. You dodged the question by saying "yo, i'm working, stop hassling me" basically. That's not an answer.

[Rob14]

I need to look through some stuff, especially on Whiskers. Can someone sum up what caused his wagon to dissipate? I know I had him as a strong scum read earlier in the day, but I have been skimming recent stuff because of lack of time and (to some degree) interest.

[Rob14]

Was that scumslip suggestion serious Whiskers?

[Rob14]

Was that scumslip suggestion serious Whiskers?

...Why do you ask?

Why don't you answer?

[Rob14]

So he did, kind of.

So it wasn't telling, but you decided to throw around a buzz word? I like my vote still.

[Rob14]

Whiskers, look at my meta. Bussing-Rob looks nothing like what you've described. When I bus, I

bus

.

[Rob14]

Thor, could you give me a reason that ProHawk is scum that doesn't boil down to "He's voting with a scumread, so he must be scum"? That's not a compelling argument at all.

[Rob14]

Thor, scum bus. Do you deny this fact? As town, if a scum-read votes with me, then I have no problem with it. I could possibly be wrong, but if so, then I can analyze my other scum-read's involvement with the wagon. If I'm right, then I can re-analyze my second scum-read to see if it looks like genuine scum-hunting or bussing.

I don't care who helps me push through a lynch of a scum-read. I just care that the lynch happens.

[Rob14]

So you're fine with voting with your scum-read Thor?

Interesting.

[Rob14]

lol

[Rob14]

#1293 shows you're fine with your scum-read voting with you - you explicitly stated it. The fact that your vote hasn't moved further proves you're fine with voting with a scum-read. You're being incredibly hypocritical and I don't see how this attitude is coming from town. You, yourself, in this very game, have encountered a situation in which you're okay with being on the same wagon as a scum-read. Despite this, when ProHawk votes with a scum-read, then you're all over him because that could

only

come from scum.

Unvote
Vote Thor

[Rob14]

What difference does it make if a scum-read you're voting with is defending another scum-read? Why does that matter? ProHawk already explained his reasoning for his current vote and it looked like it came from town.

[Rob14]

Very busy this week, so I'm not going to be posting much, I don't think. Considering the deadline,

Intent to hammer Sky.

[Rob14]

Vote: Sky

[Rob14]

I'll agree the sudden hammer looks pretty suck, and think it was bad play and incredibly derp...but sadly I think town is more likely to have done that too, because town is dumb and it's not like Rob's play is a shining testament to brilliance thus far.

Let's lynch Whiskers.

With a day left to deadline, any lynch was better than a no lynch. Enough people were convinced that Sky was scum that he was an inevitable lynch at that stage, in my opinion, so I'd rather end the day and take a lynch that you idiots would have eventually pushed through anyway instead of no lynch and have stupid Sky discussion take up another day.

I am totally on-board with the Whiskers lynch, though, especially after the self-vote.

Vote: Whiskers

L-1

[Rob14]

Oh posh - yuu don't vote town reads. It's the exact same reason self votes are stupid - if you agree those are bad then you should recognize why your vote was bad too.

Since when did I have Whiskers as a town read? I was voting him literally all of last day. He's definitely a scum read of mine, and has been for a long while.

[Rob14]

So, in 5 posts, he went from gut-scum to gut-town? What?

VOTE: Rob13

....This sounds kinda like someone else I think is a wolf... HD!

I haven't called anyone gut-scum and then flipped them to gut-town.

Unless I'm having a drastic memory lapse, it didn't happen.

Wait a second...you're saying that I'm a werewolf with Aldu because, in the course of 400+ posts, his gut reads changed? Gut is synonymous with weak, you realize, right? Going from gut town to gut scum or vice versa over 400+ posts is by no means a sudden change. Alduskkel was half-assing this game big time, either way. He probably didn't even know what his own fake reads were supposed to be. I can't know why he "read" me as what he did, but you're trying to analyze the play of someone who obviously didn't give a fuck about how they played, as evident from Alduskkel's end of day stuff.

The "must find mafia" nonsense from HD is awful and wrong, but he's still ObvTown in my opinion.

On the other hand...

Vote: Majiffy

for all the obvious reasons. Your quickhammer was bad. The NK of Thor makes it look even worse for you.

[Rob14]

Here's the real kicker though:

And keep an eye on Rob13 too, although that's less concrete.

Well, [Rob]'s not a strong town read. Part of it's gut. Part of it's that I like his flow of content and scumhunting. And another part is that no one has actually made a good case on him.

So, in 5 posts, he went from gut-scum to gut-town? What?

VOTE: Rob13

This is where you quoted the two posts that he changed from gut-scum to gut-town. As I did the math, 795-384=411. Trust me. I'm a math major.

If you were referring to 790 as the post where he has a gut scum read on me, then that's different, but that's not what you quoted before and so it's not what I responded to.

Again, why did he change his tune to have a gut town read on me? I have no idea, but Aldu was clearly half-assing this game. Look at how he acted close to his lynch - seriously. I don't think he even knew what the reads he had spouted the post before were at any point during this game. I don't find analyzing the reads of someone who puts no effort into them to be useful. I do not think Aldu was actually playing to his wincon as he put no effort in, so I don't think you can analyze his actions under the assumption that he was playing to his wincon. Do you see what I mean there?

Also, lol Majiffy. Voice suspicion of me out of the blue once I vote you and others have already fingered me. Provide no reasoning at all. Don't vote, because then it would look potentially like OMGUS. I'm more confident in my vote now - Majiffy is def scum. Probably the werewolf, because I don't see his play so far being something that someone with a remaining partner alive would be doing, to be honest. He seems to be in survival mode so far this day.

[Rob14]

considering he did seem like he was actually put an effort into not being lynched at the very end.

lolwut? No, he didn't. He wasn't putting in any effort what-so-ever. He continued to ignore several arguments against him and half-ass his way through the game. He may have made some walls, but he didn't do anything that even closely resembled trying to stay alive. I can only assume that, as I tend to do when I'm scum and know I'm dying, that he was trying to pollute the waters by dropping some fake associative tells. I have no clue whatsoever, to be honest.

If you want me to, I can link my own relevant meta that shows that I drop purposeful incorrect associative tells as scum (in my recent meta, anyway - it's something I've tried out very recently), but I frankly don't have the time to look into Aldu's meta to see if he's ever done anything similar. If someone who I think is town could take the time to do that (HD, 4nx), then please do. It may be highly worthwhile.

[Rob14]

actually scratch that PHtown read. Uct calling him scum yet not placing him in the scum pile of reads And later on no vote while calling him scum, definitely fishy.

The NK of Thor makes it look even worse for you.

what makes you think this?

Majiffy, PH, Rob scum? maybe. Want to hear Tajun's thoughts first.

Think about the motivations behind a Thor kill. Why on earth would a werewolf kill off Thor when Thor could have been a (relatively) easy target as a lynch due to his help on the Whiskers wagon and his still-being-aliveness. Thor is automatically suspicious when he lives for a long time, so why would scum kill him off if they had been willing to leave him as long as they had? He was only getting more suspicious with time. I reached the following possibilities:

1) Killing Thor earlier would have caused suspicion to fall on the werewolf.
2) Thor, for whatever reason, was starting to catch onto the werewolf or would probably be suspicious of them the following day.

So who fits that criteria? Majiffy.

1) Killing Thor early would have brought the heat potentially on Majiffy because they were majorly arguing with each other. Majiffy-scum would never in a million years kill off Thor early in this game due to how the argument was going. This explains why Thor wasn't killed earlier.
2) Majiffy would have been destroyed by Thor in Day 4 due to the quick-hammer. Thor is a good player in this game and he would have been all over it. He also definitely has meta on Majiffy that the rest of us probably don't have, so he'd be extra-dangerous to Majiffy following such a controversial move. Majiffy is likely to want Thor gone even though Thor was becoming suspicious because leaving Thor in the game when he would undoubtedly start targeting Majiffy is way too risky.

[Rob14]

Majiffy - your quickhammer made you a target of suspicion. That's fairly obvious. It was pretty ObvScum.

And what do you mean by why? I listed one of the two possible reasons I think a werewolf would kill Thor at the time they did when they were NOT willing to kill him earlier. You fit that reason (as well as the other, for that matter).

[Rob14]

What don't you understand about this?

I'm analyzing why a werewolf would NOT want to kill Thor earlier when he was less suspicious but WOULD want to kill Thor when he was more suspicious. That intuitively is weird - why would scum be unwilling to kill Thor early (i.e. remove a powerful and not very suspicious player from a game) but be willing to kill him later (i.e. remove a still powerful but now rather suspicious player from the game who may have become a lynch candidate).

One possible reason why scum would be unwilling to kill Thor early but MORE willing to kill him later would be if killing him earlier would have somehow implicated the scum. Can someone other than Majiffy tell me if I'm being at all unclear? I'm not going to continue to re-explain what is a relatively straight-forward concept if it's just for the sake of my scum-read. Majiffy - you can stop being obtuse whenever you'd like.

[Rob14]

lol

[Rob14]

Dear people who don't think Rob is the remaining Werewolf,

See all this NK spec? See how it looks almost like he was, hmm, I don't know,

prepared

for it? I'll let you put the pieces together.

Sincerely,
HD

Remind me to come back in post-game and comment on this post, HD. I don't want to cloud the issues by telling you why this is incredibly stupid, as you're definitely town at this point, but this is horrible play.

[Rob14]

Fuck it, this is probably my best chance to win.

Claim: Mafia

Here is why you should believe my claim.
1) If I'm lying, then I just ended the game for myself. You can kill me at any time, and you'll certainly kill me before LyLo. You know, therefore, that I cannot be a member of a one-person-remaining scumteam and still be playing to my wincon. Therefore, I'm not the werewolf.

Here is why you shouldn't kill me immediately.
1) Werewolves control the kill. The longer the kill is in the game, the faster town gets to losing. Therefore, you want to get rid of the kill ASAP.
2) Because you know for sure I'm scum, you can safely kill me when the Mafia team gets to LyLo, so my continued being alive presents no threat to you. I do not control any kill and you know that you can remove me from the game at any time.

Here is why you should listen to what I have to say.
1) I'm furthering my wincon by removing the werewolf because a single lucky werewolf kill on someone other than me, now that I've claimed, could always hit my partner and effectively end the game for my faction because town would then swiftly kill me off due to the claim.
2) I'm the only person in the game right now that you can be 100% sure is not a werewolf and therefore I am the most reliable to help you FIND the werewolf.

Now make no mistake. Following me will probably (definitely?) not help you find the remaining mafia member. From now on, I refuse to post or comment on anything regarding any player that I do not specifically finger as a likely werewolf, because doing so would almost definitely be awful for my faction. I won't answer any questions. I won't comment on anything people say about anyone other than the one person I'm saying is a werewolf. I will not even acknowledge it. I will also not argue against any wagons other than the one I support - only towards the wagon that I'm supporting. As I'm sure you understand, I have to further my wincon just as you have to further yours.

This doesn't mean that allowing me to live is bad for the town. We share a large threat - the nightkill. We can remove it from the game, then you can remove me from the game. After that, good luck in LyLo, partner.

Now that you know I'm reliable in my pursuit to kill me a werewolf, let's lynch Majiffy. Seriously. The only agenda I'm pushing is to take the nightkill off the table, and I'm around 92% sure Majiffy is the one holding it. Any questions regarding my reasoning for suspecting him will be entertained, but only if they are SOLELY focused on Majiffy and not even tangently related to anyone else in the game.

[Rob14]

Now make no mistake. Following me will probably (definitely?) not help you find the remaining mafia member. From now on, I refuse to post or comment on anything regarding any player that I do not specifically finger as a likely werewolf, because doing so would almost definitely be awful for my faction. I won't answer any questions. I won't comment on anything people say about anyone other than the one person I'm saying is a werewolf. I will not even acknowledge it. I will also not argue against any wagons other than the one I support - only towards the wagon that I'm supporting. As I'm sure you understand, I have to further my wincon just as you have to further yours.

[Rob14]

Any reason we should doubt his claim (ie suspect him as the wolf)? Otherwise, I'm happy to let him live, because:
1) If we lynch the wolf, we lynch him tomorrow.
2) If we lynch town, he dies tonight (wolf has no choice but to kill him) giving us another chance to take the maf.
3) If we lynch the other maf, he either dies or lives tonight, kind of irrelevant, then we still have to get the wolf tomorrow (can lynch him in 3 player lylo).

Actually, come to think of it, that could be his plan, to claim maf as a wolf, hoping that we get into scenario 3 and have to try to lynch the wolf tomorrow (which is, ironically, him). Actually, I think that is the most likely scenario, I don't really see the benefit to doing this as maf, but as a wolf he has bought himself a chance at the win if we let him live. Thoughts?

In Scenario 3, you kill me in 3p LyLo, making this strategy not viable for a werewolf.

[Rob14]

Pretty dumb, kinda like claiming Mafia to be auto-lynched in the late-game to make your team get to 1?

I'll justify my actions in the post-game. What's done is done. Focus on the werewolf.

[Rob14]

You guys are idiots for thinking HD is the wolf. Majiffy is the wolf. I'm >90% sure on this. Everything he's done recently has been bad. Look at his vote on HD. I mean, come on. He prefers my lynch when that has the most support. He prefers HD's lynch when that has the most support. He doesn't give a fuck who's lynched. He just cares that someone not-him dies. He's the wolf. Lynch with fire.

[Rob14]

4) 4nx and Rob are like "Hey no stfu Player X/Majiffy are wolf!", respectively.

lol. Didn't read your post before I posted. I'm not even mad.

[Rob14]

FTR, all the kills show that the WW is experienced, NOT a noob like HD. Guess who is pretty experienced in this game?

*cough* Majiffy *cough*

[Rob14]

Missed it. I disagree, though, because that exact logic is the logic that would cause the werewolf to WANT to quick-hammer. Your argument is WIFOM, basically.

[Rob14]

Rob, you keep making these statements that point to me being wolf, but you don't actually support them.

Give me an example.

[Rob14]

Vote: Tajun

[Rob14]

Actually, wait a second. That's something that HD might actually do as wolf. I need to think about some shit and I don't want day to end yet.

Vote: Majiffy

because status quo.

[Rob14]

having trouble deciding who is town out of majiffy, tajun, ph; which is really making me want to lynch rob.
With a rob lynch there still is a chance for wolf to hit mafia and we get to analyze the wolf kill. Worst case is wolf kills town and it becomes 2-1-1(which is the same as leaving rob for the nk and mislynching today)

Either way wolf has to be lynched by tommorrow or it's an auto loss. Figuring out who is wolf is the only thing holding me back from a rob lynch.

Dat distancing.

who are you referring to here?

We must lynch the WW either today or tomorrow, therefore let's kill Rob. A+ plan right there.

[Rob14]

having trouble deciding who is town out of majiffy, tajun, ph; which is really making me want to lynch rob.
With a rob lynch there still is a chance for wolf to hit mafia and we get to analyze the wolf kill. Worst case is wolf kills town and it becomes 2-1-1(which is the same as leaving rob for the nk and mislynching today)

Either way wolf has to be lynched by tommorrow or it's an auto loss. Figuring out who is wolf is the only thing holding me back from a rob lynch.

Dat distancing.

who are you referring to here?

We must lynch the WW either today or tomorrow, therefore let's kill Rob. A+ plan right there.

Stop planting these fake associative tells, it's really pissing me off now

Calling 4nx an idiot is not an associative tell. It's just saying he's an idiot.

[Rob14]

Also, HD, if you were trying to tell me to stop giving town a whole heap of WIFOM, then I have a response to you:

LOLNOPE

But still, I am genuinely interested in killing the WW as it helps my faction. I haven't been able to dig into the stuff I wanted to dig into yet, so I'll be back later with that business.

[Rob14]

Meanwhile, Rob is trying his damnedest to ignore this conversation because he knows he dun fucked up.

Nah, just tactically lurking. Waiting for the WW to do something obvious. I think I figured out who it is.

[Rob14]

Prod dodge activate.

[Rob14]

Well then. I guess I'll just spam post once a day here.

People who are asking me questions and expecting responses that will help narrow down the maf-partner field are going to be very disappointed, btw.

[Rob14]

So, how is everyone? Discussion has kind of taken a turn for the non-existent.

[Rob14]

ZzZzZzZzZz

Such a helpful post.

[Rob14]

V/LA until Saturday. Got midterms all up in here. (Seriously, though. One midterm in an hour and three tomorrow alone. This week is so awful.)

[Rob14]

Unvote

[Rob14]

Why would I spend all of today pushing my partner if I'm interested in finding the wolf? That would be a derp strategy likely to get both me and my partner lynched.

Vote: 4nxiety

After having reread the game:

LOOK AT HIS POSTS. LOOK AT THEM.

He's constantly not at all interested in finding the wolf (despite saying multiple times that he realizes that we only have two days to do so) and wants to lynch me, or another mafia member, or really anyone but wolf candidates, really. Look at all the scum-hunting he's done this game. It's been genuine - and focused on the mafia. He's ObvWolf, in hindsight.

[Rob14]

Unvote

Why would I spend all of today pushing my partner if I'm interested in finding the wolf? That would be a derp strategy likely to get both me and my partner lynched.

is it really this obvious?

tbh I don't care anymore which of Taj and Maj is wolf or mafia. I have strong townreads on PH and HD; so as long as Taj and Maj get lynched in sequence, its all good.

I could switch over to Taj but convincing PH that he is scum is like pulling teeth.

Setting up two lynches in sequence that are independent of one-another so that - no matter what - he has someone to target next day. So scummy. So wolfy.

[Rob14]

When I actually lynch scum

it's because I have my blinders on

Remind me to come back to this post in post-game to help out the newbie.

[Rob14]

You saying PH wolfslipped because he is only mafia hunting.
A similar logic can be applied to my pushes on Rob and Taj.

4nx is so guilty about being the wolf that he's building a case on himself.

Let's go Majiffy. No hurt feelings about the whole "Majiffy is the wolf" fiasco. Let's just lynch 4nx. He literally told you why you should - the logic making you think PH is scum applies to him as well.

[Rob14]

PH, you neglect to consider the fact that if I had claimed mafia when at L-1, no one would have believed me. I saw myself as going to be lynched and having very little to defend myself with. I thought I saw a definite wolf in Majiffy and I wanted to ensure that he died with me, at the very least. I no longer think that I was correct in my read on Majiffy.

Was my play optimal? You could argue about that, but it has no bearings on the alignment of any players in the game or my motivations for performing my actions.

In my situation, if you had thought that you were on the road to being lynched with no way off it, based on the amount of players that had expressed suspicion on you, AND you had decided the only way to avoid being lynched was to claim mafia, would you wait to do it at L-1 or do it immediately? That's the scenario you have to consider in order to look at what my potential motivations for doing what I did were, as that's the situation I believed myself to be in.

[Rob14]

bah

[Rob14]

I thought I had done a good enough job of dropping a few associative tells with HD. Guess not. I tried to do some shit in that direction, but meh. Did the same for the ol' jiffy.

BTW. Re:HD's style of "scum-hunting"

You claim that when you find scum it's because you tunnel. Guess what? When you don't find scum, it's also because you tunnel. In fact, based on the games I've played in with you, you tend to tunnel on townies quite often and refuse to use new evidence to alter your reads. This is bad play, plain and simple.

Which is better: a day 1 read or a day 4 read? Because when you tunnel from day 1 to day 4 on a single player, you're basically deciding that you prefer your day 1 read over developing a day 4 read. Obviously your day 4 reads are much better than day 1, though, because you have more info at your disposal. This is true for any day numbers. The longer you've been in the game, the better your reads will become. This is why you HAVE to keep analyzing new information and be willing to adjust your reads.

Your big tunnel this game was Tajun-wolf. Guess what: Tajun wasn't a wolf.

Your big tunnel in the 3p LyLo we were in together was, well, I forgot who it was. But you voted someone you decided to tunnel on in 3p LyLo instead of me without any discussion as soon as the day started, which serves to demonstrate how you play as if you aren't willing to analyze new info. What's worse is that I KNEW you did that based on just a few prior games, which means that I could use it to my advantage to win the game. Trust me, I'm not even close to the skill level that some players on this site are. I consider myself fairly middle-of-the-road. If I can read you like that after only a game or two, then at least half of the site can do it too. The longer you play, the more you'll run into situations where players' meta knowledge of this weakness in your play leads to losses.

You favor old reads over new ones. Until you stop doing that, you will not be able to improve very much as a player. Not trying to bash you, just trying to help a bit.

[Rob14]

By the way, I'm not saying that's what caused a town loss here. There were many other things that did that. I'm just pointing it out because you defended your tunneling earlier as the best way to find scum for you, which is horribly wrong.

[Rob14]

Yeah I doubt I'll be able to pull something like that off again with this playerlist.

lolno