Open 529 -- Picking Simplicity -- Game Over

[Maenara]

So, I'm officially here. And confirming my presence, should that be vital.

Anyone care to summarize the top two wagons, or will I have to actually read the thread?

[Maenara]

'Multiple exclamation marks,' he went on, shaking his head, 'are a sure sign of a diseased mind.'

Still, humor me. I may or may not be reading the thread, and in doing so, I may or may not interpret your no-doubt authoritative opinions incorrectly. So tell me, based on what you think right this moment: Why lynch the people on your list?

[Maenara]

You do acknowledge that not contributing by means of engaging in theory discussion is anti-Town behavior, Wake88? You DO want people to give reads and not activeLurk, right?

Cases. Please.

[Maenara]

Haven't read.

[Maenara]

Consistent with the fact that he's roleclaimed and not voted at all, then.

Fine.

VOTE: Aptil.

10 days without moving your RVS vote? Really?

P-EDIT:

Okay, listen, I'm going to be nice here, m'kay?

Stop that there. Right now. I mean, really, it's pitiful - What, you're trying to take control of town, and you haven't even cast a bloody vote? You

intend

to be lynched? Nobody but a bloody jester should

intend

to get lynched, that's against the bloody site rules, and there isn't any jester in this game. And claiming? Honestly, that does nothing but make it easier for the

two

night-kills to hit a bloody PR.

Keep it up and I'll support bloody policy lynching you.

[Maenara]

Oh give me a bloody break.

VOTE: Wake88

[Maenara]

Village Idiot, noun:
"Player who doesn't know when to stop talking and start voting."

See also:

Lynch-bait

[Maenara]

How is voting for Wake bad? He posts nothing but this incessant drivel; adding nothing to the game and cluttering it up beyond repair. He's not producing anything for town, he's not even voting, and if we let him live, he'll just go on to LyLo, because scum sure as hell aren't gonna kill him. And what'll we do if he's scum himself, or a SK? Just go "Oh, well, he's just Wake being a VI; better not waste a lynch there"? That's exactly how you allow scum to coast.

Seriously, this is, like, a textbook example of "When to Policy Lynch".

[Maenara]

Right, so nobody is actually doing anything right now. Just an awful lot of "Hey you other people should be active". So screw that, Imma spout some bull and see if y'all react.

First of all, lynch Wake88. Not "please do this", not "do this for reasons". Just do it. I've already said why, and policy lynches are bloody

necessary

, both for the sake of this individual game - not letting him live to LyLo, not having a cop waste an investigation on him - and for the sake of improving play on the site in general. VIs are not supposed to be allowed to just lollygag.

SO, we're not doing that, though, are we? No, we're not, because nobody ever bloody policy lynches. Instead, let's take a look at the other wagons, if only so

someone

will finally say

something

.

Skull, first. Ain't seeing it, to be honest. Too much actual content to be likely scum, and their being voted for seems to be 96% abrasiveness, 4% legit suspicion. Dumb wagon, opportunistic, and with nothing to really press for. Bad.

Don, I'm honestly seeing as much the same. Now, mind you, I'm not actually

reading

either of their posts, because, honestly, who is? Too much stuff there, and it's dated by now. Gut feel is a bit more scummy than Skull, but I can't point to any other reason than lack of capital letters, which isn't particularly sound. I'll slot him as 'null, leaning town', for now. COntent, at the very least, is a good thing.

Elle... Yeah, I guess I can see that. Still a lot of content - Gee, I'm sensing a pattern in this here town's past voting habits - but honestly, a lot of it is just basically saying "So what do you think", which is a really useful way to seem useful and townie without ever committing to anything. Hint: Don't. Not gonna vote for you, 'cause you'll either keep this rate up, in which case your alignment should just get all that much clearer later on, or you'll start being inconsistent, which is nice and scummy in itself.

JMO: Still can't read JMO.

Lora: Questions questions polite interrogation setup speculation scum

VOTE: Loranthaceae

[Maenara]

I know what this is.

Good.

If there are enough people who are on-board with policy lynching Wake88, you will have my support.

Pseudo-Voting Time!

Happy fun-times all around, kids! The magical pirate ship has sailed into our airport, and while the EMTs carry away the bodies, it is time to decide

if

that

we want to lynch its dear captain!

Here are the rules: Everyone, within their next three posts, decides whether or not Wake88 needs to walk the metaphorical plank. Available choices are "Yes", "No", and, indeed, "Blank", but the choice needs to be explicit, kids, or the frustration-fairy will drop by and pull out your teeth through your toes. Remember, within three posts! And make it clear and explicit, lest the fairy gets confused - It is easily befuddled, and really doesn't care much for the feeling.

TL;DR: Within your next post, everyone please pseudo-vote for "Policy Lynch Wake" "Do Not Policy Lynch Wake" or "I Am Incapable of Forming Opinions of My Own". If you want to be really nice, make this vote green.

Pseudo: Policy Lynch

[Maenara]

Fact 1: I want to policy lynch Wake88.

Fact 2: At least one player has expressed reluctance to support this idea based on low amount of support for such.

Conclusion: To avoid having everyone go all "I'd better keep my vote on someone better until enough support for this shows up", thus ensuring that none ever does, I'm having people say whether they want him lynched or not, regardless of the people they're actually voting for.

[Maenara]

Rainbow, am I BP?

There aren't really any other people starting with a 'B' who have a 'P' in their names, now are there?

In other news Skull and Don are still both town, and Lora still needs to die. They've been way too cautiously probing the situation, trying to avoid attention intentionally.

[Maenara]

FOS: Maenara

Rainbow, am I BP?

There aren't really any other people starting with a 'B' who have a 'P' in their names, now are there?

In other news Skull and Don are still both town, and Lora still needs to die. They've been way too cautiously probing the situation, trying to avoid attention intentionally.

I think this post came as a logical consequence of Rainbowdash's post:

Manera (until I looked at OP thought he replaced HGH) isn't the worst lynch ever (the reaction to aptil is horrible, TNE wasn't too bad but that just really sets off an alarm), but I would rather lynch stronger scum reads who look like scum with them (elle and Aero)

saying she thought she (Maenera) was HGH's replacement. Therefore she (Maenera) figured RD didn't notice me because of lack of attentionwhoring on my part, so she uses it as an additional reason (along with that incantation) for her vote and to shift attention from her to me.
Panic much?

If you're gonna OMGUS, OMGUS. Don't try to pull this bull here.

Trying to avoid attention is exactly the reason

why

scum so often sticks to trying to engage in polite inquiry and otherwise refrains from making definitive statements. You know, the exact thing I accused you of

before

RBD's post?

[Maenara]

Don't even bother thinking about it, Stål. Pseudo-vote whether he should be policy lynched or not, and then let's get on with the actual game.

Like lynching Lora, who for

some

indeterminable reason has changed tone completely after being attacked.

[Maenara]

I've got a couple of hours free today where I won't be listening to mathematicians or writing up my entire life story for my shrinks. I'll try to add intelligent input there.

For now, would people

please

stop responding to Wake, unless it's absolutely necessary? I'd really rather just skip his posts, but if people keep responding to them, I can't.

Oh, and would someone kindly read Lora and vote for them already? Or tell me why not?

[Maenara]

In about an hour or two. Lectures at various times between 8:30 and 17:00 on Thursdays. Responding is possible; actually going through the thread proper-like isn't. I'll be home in about an hour, so once I've managed to fix something to eat, I'll make this my priority.

[Maenara]

I actually did comment on that, in that I said it's utter bull. I don't care whose replacement RD thought I was - I hadn't even realized who HGH was; there are like 20 players and I'm not about to go combing through inactives when we have perfectly valid issues to focus on here and now - the bit about your trying to avoid attention had already been stated prior to that comment, so it doesn't matter.

[Maenara]

I actually did comment on that, in that I said it's utter bull. I don't care whose replacement RD thought I was - I hadn't even realized who HGH was; there are like 20 players and I'm not about to go combing through inactives when we have perfectly valid issues to focus on here and now - the bit about your trying to avoid attention had already been stated prior to that comment, so it doesn't matter.

by whom?

By me. As in, the post you went "I know what this is" at.

I actually did comment on that, in that I said it's utter bull. I don't care whose replacement RD thought I was - I hadn't even realized who HGH was; there are like 20 players and I'm not about to go combing through inactives when we have perfectly valid issues to focus on here and now - the bit about your trying to avoid attention had already been stated prior to that comment, so it doesn't matter.

We cant leave the inactives alone, we need to make sure they know that it isnt tolerated, if we dont then scumming gets too easy as they can just hide in the nothingness and that takes zero skill. This can go hand in hand with the current issues we have...that I really need to get a stronger feel for.

Yeah, we can't leave them alone, but we shouldn't spend D1 hunting them down, because that's a waste of valuable time,

just like this very debate

.

@Mae

Do you have a read on antihero without reading him?

No; particularly not because he doesn't have an avatar.

Home now, though, and dinner's in the oven, so I'm reading.

[Maenara]

Right, so, first up, we need to focus. Like, srsl. About two thirds of the time has been wasted already, and people can't even agree on three leading wagons. We don't have a single bloody wagon with more than three people on it, but we do have a total of 11 wagons.

In a 20 player game.

Hopefully, I shouldn't need to point out why this is dumb. Hence, I suggest everyone currently voting make a case on their votee, and everyone who can't (or won't) unvotes. Immediately. And then votes for someone on whom there's actually a case with which they somewhat agree.

That, at least, should get us to a point where we can get this thing rolling, apply some pressure, etc.

In my own case, that's Lora. Why Lora, y'all (don't) ask? Well, not for the same reasons as RachMarie and JMO, that's for sure, 'cause they haven't moved their votes since back when it was HGE, which is, like, massively anti-town (Though admittedly more lazy than scummy). No, I'm voting for Lora 'cause of his own content. There's quite a bit of it, compared to others, and it's mostly the same style: Namely, a cautious one.

He started out fine, with a bit of aggressiveness, being all "Whoop de whoop, here I am", but he rather worryingly quieted down a few posts in, taking the non-confrontational route. He doesn't say "You're scum", or "This is scummy", but goes all "This seems", "I believe", "I think", "If you think" and so on and so forth. In a study group, that'd be politeness. In Mafia, it's scum trying to make sure that they haven't made definitive statements, and that they haven't pissed off anyone. He's not actually moving the game forward; he's just creating self-sustaining conversation leading nowhere.

So that's Lora, for whom you should, by the way, all vote.

More to follow, on other topics.

[Maenara]

So, I've been asked - multiple times - to do a read on Antihero.

First of all, get an avatar. A picture's worth a thousand words, and seeing as nobody's gonna read a thousand words in a single post, you're losing out on half your data output. Seriously, it's just hard to get a feel for people if they don't have one consistent avatar.

But on to the read: He trash-posts. Like, a lot. Yeah, some of it could plausibly be read as an attempt at aggression, but all in all, it just seems like he's lethargically attempting to poke at each and everyone. The early attempts at cutesy don't help either; they look like an attempt to seem disarming, which, y'know, isn't really what town wants to do. You want to get people to raise their heckles, so that they'll reply with, I don't know, gusto or something. You want to get people emotional, is what I'm saying. It's essentially the same problem as with Lora; it feels artificial and like they're not actually trying to scumhunt. I mean, come on, ISO him. How many of those posts have a single bloody bit of content?

Speaking of which, Stål, post less. Your posting ratio is far too high, right now. Condense it, or you'll block out any chance of us getting good reads on others.

[Maenara]

Okay, actually, after writing this post I saw the no-avatar-oh-noes thread through some arcane chain of events starting in the no-context-quotes thread. Never mind the avatar bit then. The rest still stands.

[Maenara]

Okay, no, boop this. He's annoying, he's disruptive, he might be a SK, and nobody seems to be willing to agree on another lynch today.

Back where we started;

VOTE: Wake88

Everyone who is voting for Svenskt Stål or Skullduggery needs to reread the entire game. Anyone voting for a person for whom nobody else is voting needs to get real, right now. I should think that amongst Boro, Lora and Wake, everyone should be able to find

someone

they're willing to vote for.

Please don't make me have to start calling out individual players to avoid the bystander effect.

[Maenara]

Okay, yeah, well, save the protests about ending the day too early 'till we actually have eight people on a wagon. I'm not trying to get anyone specific lynched right this hour; I'm trying to get enough people on a single wagon - or better yet, a couple of them - for it to seem like a credible threat.

[Maenara]

Back to Lora it is.

VOTE: Lora

[Maenara]

Ugh. Wake does have a point about this suspicious vote hopping. The problem is both Manera and Sthal do it. I don't like Stal's bargaining. Very scummy. Town should be focused on persuasion. Stal and Manera also seem too close for his point in the game.

I'm sorry?

Did I fail to properly convey the fact that

we have six days left

, and we still don't have anything looking like viable wagons, which in turn means we can't get any bloody pressure, thus resulting in a freaking dearth of information?

Yeah I'm vote hopping. To, y'know, try to get

something

to happen.

We need 11 players to vote for 1 person. Right now, the most we have is 4. If we want a chance to change our mind before a lynch, we need to get this pressure on

right now

.

[Maenara]

Manera, I wasn't saying you were scum by that. There's a legitimate possibility you believe that. I was just seeing something iff there, more likely wih Stal. He appears to be buddying you. His rapid vote shifts don't make senses. Yours are odd and will need reevaluation later but are not necessarily scummy.

Okay what is this post?

"Oh I'm sorry I called you scum I mean you're not scum but there's a chance that you're scum and this guy is probably more scum but hey I'm just sayin ..."

Decide. Commit. Don't try to balance buddying me up and trying to get me lynched in the same post. It's not gonna work.

And @TheSvensktStålThing, yeah, duh, there's blatant buddying going on, but that's sorta needed right now, if we want to make anything happen.

[Maenara]

I'm really sorry about the lack of activity guys, I promise that whatever happens, I'll post

something

of relevance tomorrow, once I'm done being out of my bloody mind over everything, and I'll respond to everyone who's said something to me, there are just too many people for me to have been able to do a half-assed job of it.

[Maenara]

*ALERT* Incoming Wall

Okay, first off,
UNVOTE: Loranthaceae

They're town.

Now, as a preamble to this post, I'll say this: I start, in this post, by responding to people's posts, primarily those directed at me, supplemented by those I believe to have valuable things to add, or which I find need attention they have not received, in chronological order. I will thereafter, in a new post, attempt to summarize my views of various people, and evaluate whether or not I think they're scum. Following this, I will suggest a plan of action based on this, as well as on other people's reads, and which wagons are likely to get sufficient traction in the time we have left. However, in spite of the fact that I will finish up with a conclusion, I'd like people to look at the wall, too, or at least CTRL-F for their own name, that they may answer questions that I pose.

Without further ado:

Maen: what's the case on Lora?

Skelda: I would like to look at BP, but he was an early town read of mine due to his reactions to me. can you point out where he is ignoring things and maybe one or two of these "blind" votes?

The case on Lora, such as it was, was an argument based on playing style. His initial posts consisted of what seemed to me to be a combination of attempted signalling and insincere data gathering aimed more towards finding out who to please and how, than at determining people's alignments. His defense, when I confronted him, did little to convince me otherwise, and so he seemed like an ideal candidate for a lynch: With sufficient pressure, he'd either continue to flunder - as scum - and net town one less person to worry about, or he'd have to actually get a grip and start providing some content.

That aside, I'm worried about the vagueness of your statements with regards to BoroPhil. Vagueness in general is bad, and I cannot see how BP in particular has done anything to merit being read as town.

@BP - What pointless questions? You say that when you call somepony "scum from the start" it means they weren't scum when you said that, but you don't unvote him for about four pages after you make that comment.

Also yes I still don't think your comment on Wake is joking. Unless around the time that players were getting annoyed with Wake you suddenly decided to make your first joke of the game... not a joke.

Lora wagon is bad in large part because Manera is on it and they are scum for the really awkward way they are treating Wake with a very "im not sure how this is going to go" push on the policy lynch that just reeks of scum who is afraid they are going to take flack for it. Whenever his attacks get countered he just keeps ending up there as well and dismisses the entire push on him from Lora as "OMGUS" without actually responding to it.

The only semi-decent point on Lora is the odd push on Titus for "faking towntells" but when you consider HGH was probably town its a wagon that wont happen. Ive seen enough games to know that even when vocal players push a wagon it actually has to have merit or another vocal (me) will just tear it down. There is no merit here.

With regards to the Wake deal, I'm still in favour of lynching him. I just see no point in wasting everybody's time screaming in their faces instead of scumhunting. Had everybody followed my suggestion and made their stance on a policy lynch clear in their following post, in the proposed format, we'd already know whether or not we were lynching him, and it'd be a done deal. As that wasn't happening, however, why would I stick around instead of applying myself to something more useful?

Her interactions with Wake. Either it is ridiculous whiteknighting or RBD is town. I can't see scum being that melodramatic in defending others. Plus, if Wake flipped mafia scum, the target on RBD's back would be huge.

Funny how you mention that other game. In context, you had made a half-serious, half-not serious joke. I still don't quite understand it. I would have moved on if I was town but I figured I had a good chance at getting you lynched with it. Too bad Jennifer Nked me. It seems like a subtle meta manipulation, when I never asked for it. Scummy.

I don't see the link between Wake and RBD. Mind you, I'm pretty sure RBD

is

town, and Wake is a VI no matter what his alignment, but your logic is flawed.

Last few BP posts have me wondering a bit, it makes it seem like he did something without even realizing it so im not as sure on him being scum. He just reacted badly to me saying he wants a policy lynch without knowing what one is (which is odd to start).

Yeah looking at replacements I probably wouldn't even touch the Loren wagon to have a lynch happen, its at best null-scum players. Same reason im a little wary of SS wagon although he is kinda scummy.

@Titus - Wake lynch is bad. Most of the time a "slip" is overblown. When there is basically a zero change (which if I listed all players Wake would be dead last) for him being mafia, its just a bad lynch given that if the slip is wrong we are lynching town.

Vote Manera

BP can backburner for a while.

Better wagon go.

BP not knowing what a policy lynch is is BS. He's played this game for long enough to know; he has to. "Did something without realizing it" is possibly the worst excuse for doing something scummy I've ever heard.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Wake88

Him or BoroPhil. I've narrowed it down to those two.

Narrowed it down in what fashion? I don't disagree with either lynch, per se, but it's for radically different reasons, and you seem to be equating them.

[BigAssWall]

Okay, so, all of this is so incredibly fake. I mean, I can't even described how forced all of this seems. You're not actually going in depth, you're just making sure that you have a wee bit to say about everyone. That's not pro-town, that's so scummy it hurts. I mean, are you even putting in effort? Have

read

any posts? I'm not saying that any of what you wrote is false, as such, as much as it's just incredibly useless. There's no content, here. It's just noise.

Also, regarding mae, I think her lack of giving a fuck, in terms of others feelings and her own perception, puts her donw on most lists. Disregard that and try to look at what she tries to do.

Like how she insisted that we cant use any reads (which were scum) on who she replaced attacking whoever mentioned that, then pushed for a policy lynch, when that wasn't working backed way off and she got attacked backed off, then tried again in a very subtle manner saying "so who would want one" such that she gets far less heat for trying to push it?

Those things which she is trying to do and make her scum?

Well when you say it like that...

Althou I cant belive she told you not to use reads, and that it would be scummy.

I can see motive for the policy lynch...

Alot of what you typed I cant understand. But clearly we are getting two seperate signals from what she does, could it be that she is bossy? I mean everything she does you put in a bad light, or that the feeling I get, and I cnt see how anyone can come to that conclusion objectively.

Its that's she is trying to push the policy lynch in a way that town would not push it. She is afraid of the perception of herself or she would have pushed the policy lynch instead of trying to see what type of suspicion she could drum up for it.

Plus TNE who she replaced WAS scummy. All she has done is come in and tried to push a policy lynch ignoring my reason as to why Wake is town. You don't policy lynch town. I have stated why Wake is town, there has been no case counter, just continued pushing of policy im going to call that scummy.

Blue.

Green.
To me she come of as constructive. She didnt get enough traction on a wake lynch, abandoned it and moved to something else. In fact she is telling us not who to vote, but how. She has repeatedly asked us to not stray vote but instead get major wagons going. There is some frustration in there which I feel is genuine aswell.

Red.
While one should not completly disregard previous player who played the same slot I do feel that ifyou take it into too high account it limits the success of the read. Its like saying, X is kinda town the last 1000 posts but X was

really

scummy the first 100 posts. You are constantly given more information and the more you get the less you can focus on a bit of the past.

I have never played with Mae but I think that if she is town then she will be a huge source of contribution and that town will lose alot of value in an early mae lynch,

Chance of you joining the jmo wagon?

[If the above is not 100% faithfully replicated, I apologize; editing this post was hell on wheels]

Like I said earlier, I pushed the policy lynch the way I did

because

I was risk-averse. I won't deny that. But the risk in this case is the risk of a no-lynch, which is, I'll have to say, a fairly worrying proposition. I made it plenty clear that I think we should lynch Wake, and I explicitly asked for everyone to corporate in determining whether or not it ought to happen. Assuming that everyone actually read the post, which I find to be a fair assumption, I'd be hard pressed to see how they could've missed the bloody lime green. And yet virtually nobody opted in to the scheme. With that little interest amongst town, trying to sway anyone to lynch the guy was futile: Working hard to convince your audience is one thing, but it's a fair bit harder when the audience ain't listening in the first place.

And gee, I'm not too happy with people attacking me for what my predecessors did, no freaking kidding. How exactly am I supposed to respond to that? "Well, I imagine he behaved like scum 'cause he was a bit of a freakin' tosser, honestly"? I doubt that'll go over well (And it'd be ableist to boot, but you get the point).

and yeah this might all come across as a bit OMGUSy so I'm happy for people to tell me where I'm going wrong. but it just smells off to me.

btw what was interesting from my big post was 2 people who either don't have 2 votes atm or aren't voting for one of those, so are flying under the radar somewhat: aptil and Brian.

Trashpost trashpost trashpost.

I would like a lynch of Manera, elle or BS.

I would vote the other null/slight scum reads to stop lynches of town reads (like Loren/Wake) though. Not voting ER either, would aptil falls into the "kinda okay" votes but is town if BS/Manera are scum so don't really love that lynch.

Can we seriously kill elle who has just completely stopped posting as of late? She is scum to start then comes the massive lurk move when stuff starts happening.

What exactly

is

your problem with Brian Skies? I haven't been able to find a summary. To me, he seems like just another inactive.

VOTE: BoroPhil

I really don't like your accusations of RBD here. Nothing of her play reeks of desperation at all.

Shouldn't you have more to say about this guy? This seems like such a laughably small part of his posting to focus on.

and like I said, if policy was the reason then why me? there was plenty of people advocating it. Skelda still is ffs

Trashpost.

I don't see anything Skelda has done as misrepping. When he first game in, we had an interesting dialogue where I had to be sure Skelda wasn't just saying what was easy. He passed. Skelda's town. There's just no way to mirror a process as warped as my own.

BoroPhil, just because my vote is on you doesn't make it odd. From my perspective, you have been pushing my town reads for reasons that make no sense. So I voted to apply pressure and I wasn't getting my Wake lynch (despite my firm belief it would be for the best).

Skelda, I understand that. For some reason, people like to make up stuff about me when I am town (doesn't happen much as scum though). Easy on the buddying though. :S

Please cease to engage in pleasant dialogue with scum. A good offense is the best offense.

his avoidance. I've asked pretty simple things of him. I can't remember where or when he posted any of the things he claims to have posted. if someone said to me: hey dj, where was your case on so and so? I would say "post 76" or whatever. not be like "i'm not answering and you're bothering me." it could be a playstyle difference, but couple it with Tcold's "easyrider" wagoning and it says scum to me. all sven has to do is engage, but he refuses. I see no town motivation not to engage.

Dude, Stål is actually generating content. I'm well aware that nobody is guaranteed town, but he's actually taking stances and provoking people. That's, like, the epitome of towniness given the current situation. Pick another target.

Sven, what do you think of BoroPhil? Don?

If you were king of the town, who would you lynch? Why? Where have you pointed out their scumminess previously.

No prob with boro

Don has brought nothing of value since I subbed in and his latest contributions have all been sobfests couse he got told no. I think his lack of participation speaks badly for him, so its lack of content and not the content itself mostly.

Right now if I was big boss i would create thee strong wagons, and i would aim them at people i know little or nothing about. Aptil, skelda and don.

If i had to nuke someone i would nuke aptil based on a crossedfinger, 6 pack gut read.

You have no problem with BoroPhil?

You have

no

problem with BoroPhil? Excuse me, look, you've been willing to go for Lora when I'm doing it, and Boro is doing the same, only a million times worse. Don, yeah, alright, not generating the best content, but like I said to him about you, it's still content, and that's what matters right now. Gives us something to work with tomorrow, when we try to catch up after this positively abysmal day. BoroPhil has done no such thing, and yet you're fine with him.

Look. Re-read his iso. Please.

Sven, what do you think of BoroPhil? Don?

If you were king of the town, who would you lynch? Why? Where have you pointed out their scumminess previously.

sven. in the post two posts ago. before that I mentioned my thoughts on the VCA in post 344. see how easy that was?

oh and look. ad hom attacks from sven.

skelda: what behavior? since when is asking "hey, what are your reads and/or please point them out to me any type of "behavior"?

read on BP: I would have to go back and reread a bit. seemed town to me from our initial interactions. if someone wants to direct me to the case on him I will gladly read it.

Dude, how can he possibly seem town? What has he done that is town-worthy? He does the exact same thing Lora did earlier, only he hasn't actually improved since!

Sven, the reason for aptil is why it looks like Don has a point. Even then, your biggest King of the World target is a lurker. Your posts seem to have the goal of not antagonizing. The one person you should want to lynch is a scum read someone you'd want to have information on. For instance, mine would be Wake because I think he's the SK if I'm in a self-centric mood. If I was feeling more community minded, I'd probably do BoroPhil or Loran. Yours seem to be self-centered with no real evidence to back them up.

Why is Aptil a worse lurker than other lurkers?

I know how the game works, and i find the active posters more or less towny, that makes me want to get inactive players into the discussion to create a more complete picture.

No I am refusing stating things that I have allready stated, especially to someone who contributes as little as you.

if you have a question for me, just ask. currently I am contributing what is shaping up to be a pretty damn good case on your slot. i'm not even asking you to restate things. you can just give me post numbers to read if you want. I am pressuring you to explain yourself. instead of standing up for what you claim to think, you are folding under that pressure. I guess you just really want my vote.

Lol.

The reason you have to ask about stuff is because you are disconnected from the thread, you leave no constructive thoughts instead you ask useless questions.

Yes your pressure is fierce bro.

Listen, you've misunderstood something.

Severely.

Activity isn't town. Yes, yes, it signifies town, but it's not by its own merit that it does so. Content-generation is what makes you pro-town, and activity is usually a good indicator thereof. Usually is the key word, though, and in cases where people are outputting solely noise, thus keeping their activity high but their content low, they're not just being as bad as inactives: They're actively

trying

to give themselves a false appearance of towniness, and moreover, they're sabotaging town's ability to get reads by cluttering up the thread. That's definitely not pro-town.

So, I started catching up like 9 hours ago. Too many players to analyze. I need to visit this thread more often.

It's a giant Wall-Post and some players might hate it, but I did warn you:

Also, I'm in a bunch of games right now so I will post infrequently and in walls. Also, Day 1 isn't my thing, but it might be this game. Who knows?

Spoiler:

I'm confident the scum is HGH and that Aptil was a counterwagon. HGH is ignoring questions inside the thread. The wagon on A appears out of nowhere and takes off while HGH's stagnates.

Anti-hero started the wagon. Did you think he was scum at this point? Did you think anyone else on the wagon was scum, and who?

I'm fine with a Skullduggery wagon here. Skull seems to be hostile and trying to manipulate the conversation to his whims rather than reality. Not sure if he's scum or town but I'd like to know relatively quickly.

Really? I can see how you thought this on the first read-through. But what do you think of the conversation now? I'm leaning towards Elle manipulating the conversation. Skull is just being abrasive. Not hostile though.

I also do not like her case on Elle, and she seems to be twisting things around to suit her.

Same question to Titus from above. What do you think of the conversation now?

However, I do love his 172 since I thought precisely the same thing when I saw the Aptil wagon. Yup, town thoughts! His Skull vote is fine, too, but I still like HGH better.

Same question to Titus from above.

Anti-hero started the wagon. Did you think he was scum at this point?

(Answered in Post 253) Did you think anyone else on the wagon was scum, and who?

I want to see your antihero read to verify you aren't sheeping popular opinion, but the mirroring in thought processes really siggests town.

This was a good catch against Skelda's entrance reads. During my re-read, I felt Skelda could have been a parrot. +Townpoints.

The stupid argument between elle and skull is making me think one of them is scum. But atm it's just a gut feeling.

Looks town v town to me.

I'm leaning this way as well. I didn't like Skull's initial approach to the anti-town thing in the beginning of the game, but I'm liking his defense against Elle. I like Elle's argument thus far for the most part, but there are some word choices and arguments that feel out of place. These include the "you don't seem to like questions" and "definite townreads" arguments. She's generating discussion and pushing Skull. I'm leaning more town on Skull up to this point.

Willing to bet at least one out of tcold and aeronaut are scum. Anyone follow?

Still liking this point. I'm leaning towards Aeronaut being scum between the two. Possibly both.

@Skelda, I have to disagree with the no motivation to cut the day short. If the town is aligned and agrees upon a plan, scum can manipulate to cause disagreement. Also regarding Anti-Hero, if you tried to twist your read of him, that's VERY hard to do. If you had just agreed with popular opinion (which you did) you would have at least commented with some hostility that I was suspecting you might sheep your reads. Objecting about being ignored by someone other than your scum read is a town indicator to me which both Wake and Anti-Hero displayed so I'm putting them as town tentatively.

I'm not comprehending this. Please clarify what you were thinking at the time.

Back.

I didn't do a good job of reading through all 10 pages (the first 3 were all a crap load of RVS and somewhere in there was a typo and arguments about it; was it jmo or someone who people tried to beat up for it?), so I didn't pick up anything I liked. I did ISO the lead wagon of Skulldudgerry and I don't know other people's reasonings for being on it, but for me:

What's your gambit going with "if you think I'm scum, vote me?" Who, honestly, as any town, invites that upon themselves? To me it's just an excuse to try to buy town credit.

Vote: Skullduggery

UNVOTE/VOTE:Skullduggery

I don't like either of these two votes. At least one of you is scum.

I also don't think Skull is scum. The interaction with Elle makes me think town v town and the way the wagon grew.. I think it's likely we have a town-skull than a scum-skull.

Which one do you think is scummier? Why?

Boro is also an awesome scum pick here.

Why?

sorry. been busy. I don't think skull is town. she disappeared as the wagon grew. maybe trying to shed the pressure? I don't know. i'll have to go back and read a bit more. skimming most of these longer posts. here's where i'm at:

townie:

Aeronaut

aptil

BoroPhil

elleheathen
Rainbowdash
Titus

RachMarie

JacobSavage

TCold

null:
Evil Regals

HGH7193

jmo16mla

Skelda

thenewearth

Antihero

uctriton00

scum:
Wake88
Brian Skies
Skullduggery

not necessarily seeing these three as scum together, just each a little scummy in their own right. I don't like brian skies post from atop this page. wake, well, that should be obvious. and skull. well, they are my top suspect at the moment. I see no reason to diffuse the wagon on them. the players running around yelling "skull is town! what is happening!" are making themselves look worse regardless of skull's flip. I see no reason to whine about an existing wagon on day one unless the accused is obvtown, which no one seems to be saying or proving. the best argument made yet is that the argument was town v. town, but that's sketchy and no one has explained why.

I will try and stay active a bit more often, just got a lot going on right now. those of you who know me know I am rarely prodded.

This reads list from Don_Johnson still stands out to me. I've bolded the ones I feel are off. I feel like some of the reads in the town list conflict with some of the reads in the null list. Some of them are similar to me and I don't understand how some got town reads over others.

Not saying he's scum for it, as he does explain his thoughts later on. But I'm going to point it out now for later reference.

But I could see why you wouldn't want to see a Skull flip, regardless of alignment considering the assocative tell:

This is exactly why I find your town read of them to be fabricated, not only because I can't see at all what is town about the two things that you quote but because it looks like a scum throwing out bogus town reads just to look town.

Has Ranawey flipped yet? Do you know his alignment already?

What does this have to do with Ranawey flipping? Are you saying that Ranawey's flip will prove that it

is

fabricated? Just because I think you've made a fabricated town read on Ranawey as scum, doesn't mean that I necessarily think that Ranawey is scum because of it.

The defense and misrep by Ranawey in 185 strikes me as a subtle attempt to discredit what I was actually saying about a read being definite. So this whole attempt here is festering that. And because I at least want to say this before we even get close to night falling. Whether it is today, tomorrow or whenever - when Skull flips scum, look into this, imo.

Hmmm? Maybe. I'll just keep this here for later reference.

first thing which stands out to me is that brianskies is on both early HGH, then aptil, hasn't voted skull, but seems to be fencesitting the wagon. i.e. refusing to take a stance on skull's alignment, but calling the wagon "scummy" irrelevant of the alignment of the target. this may change, but its the first thing which stands out.

Tcold is on all three.

that's all that stands out in a cursory glance. this does not include any votes in context either. might be worth looking into it further.

Does this make TCold scum or town?

Answered with a vote and pushed lynch on Page 19.

/I talk about jmo's scummy behavior
/no one cares

Not 100% (because there are no absolutes), but pretty close. There's way some major scumlord candidates floating around (jmo and don, just to name a couple) that I would rather vote for than Skull.

Okay, I admit I was ignoring you, even on this re-read. I'm not going to iso Jmo right now (especially since it would require ANOTHER re-read), but I've been reading his actions as town. Is he scum? Possible, but I'm leaning town on him. I also think there are better lynches to be had up to this point in the thread. You have beef with Don_Johnson - care to explain?

Alright, I'm here. And I am not liking Don's recent posting. Firstly, his reads list in 299 is seriously a bunch of random names, and his defense of it in 301 isn't much better. That does nothing for the game, and his logic is seriously horrible. He's like, "this one is obvious, this one has a wagon already, this one has a post that annoys that I refuse to specify or tell what annoys me about it". It is ridiculous! And, when he says, "I only lynch out of my null pile if neccesary." shouldn't the nulls be the people leaning neither way who you are on the fence about? Not the players you just personally haven't played with before? Also his, "I'm not going to waste time or energy Day 1" seems like excusing lack of anything, which is just stupidity.

And don't even get me started on 319, that is illogical! What kind of person stops posting on the whole site for one game? I'm starting to think Skull is town because of how quickly the wagon sprung up and Don's horrible logic against her.

So, I'm going to VOTE: don_johnson. My favorite wagon of the game, hands down!

Good argument. Pretty much what I was thinking regarding the reads list. +Townpoints.

It's still barely even a wagon. Two votes. How many have joined the wagon since? One. Hm. Sounds like it stalled out. Possibly because he's scum.

More pushing on HGH, and I'm liking the logic. There's a possible 3 person scumteam here, but calling out scumteams on Day 1 without a flip is ambitious and bad, especially for me. Also, I'm reading two of them as town up to this point, so I'm not giving it any weight right now.

@elle - Yes or no, there is nothing apart from the fact that Skull said "This is town" that you think he is scum for.

Also you entire missed the fact that you originally say "the SK comment came from town or SK" intentionally eliminating mafia. Then when I come in and attack you suddenly you start talking about interactions and how I should not be paid attention to because if he is scum you think I might be.

Why are you implying that her reads can't change? You're chainsawing Skull up to this point and it does make you suspicious by association. Especially since Skull gave your predecessor a townread for two posts that I don't think deserves a townread at all.

I suspectTitus, Elle, and Skelda.

Interesting. Reasons?

brianskies: I can agree to move on. your posting style is difficult for me to decipher. every time you post I feel like you are contradicting something you said earlier, but then when I go back to look, you just aren't. if you're scum, you're doing a great job.

Or I'm town and there's no reason for me to contradict myself to being with.

*Seems to be coasting with an easy vote on Aptil. (140)
*Unvotes Aptil. (192)

*Aeronaut scolds Skullduggery. He did consider putting Skull at L-1. (214)

*Points out that Skull doesn't like questions much. Votes her. (219)

*Makes an odd post that doesn't make much sense. (241)
*Mentions how Jmo voted for HGH in response to my claim to hammer Skull. (273)
*Potential misunderstanding/slip by Aeronaut regarding Jmo and I on reactions. (277)

*Says in response to Uct that he didn't like putting Skull at L-1 because of how quickly her wagon formed. (361)

Serious contradiction here on Aero's part.

@Wake, that's a damn good wall. Where is the vote?

Where's yours?

It seems you don't want to go into detail. When I ask for people's reads of me, I'm gauging their responses. Providing very little context, instead of going into detail, well, sends mixed signals.

You too, Skelda, Antihero and Loranthaceae.

Why?

I think you demanding people to read is either town or cocky scum. But you don't seem cocky. Other than that, I find you somewhat difficult to read. I don't know what it i, but I noticed it when I was making my introductory read list.

Also, I don't like your unexplained suspicion of me, but I don't like being suspected in general. I swear if I could be an Innocent Child every game I would...

Why not just answer the question?

Titus - agreed with him at 191 (as above), but then his vote states that we need more content from DJ. bit bizarre this as DJ has been pretty prominent (and posted reads for everyone)

It's not bizarre. Don_Johnson posted reads and people had issues with his reasoning. Some people still think he's scummy. It's already been said before, but posting is not the same as content.

WTF? Where have I been all game? I'm barely halfway through and I'm still missing.

Players who deliberately ignore my direct posts are automatic lynchbait. Throughout the game I'll be gunning for those on the Lynch List. If that's the way it is, then that is the way it will be. Meaning, don't fucking ignore me. I encourage everybody to go after those on my list for being anti-Town.

Lynch List:

Aptil
Borophil
Jacob
Don
Skelda
Aeronaut

Respond to me truthfully and thoroughly or I'll lead your lynch!!!

Please read through the thread, Maenara.

Who died and made you king? If anti-hero used the same logic, we'd be lynching most of the players list.

You do acknowledge that not contributing by means of engaging in theory discussion is anti-Town behavior, Wake88? You DO want people to give reads and not activeLurk, right?

Cases. Please.

Oooh. I was kind of liking your predecessor, but this post screams town to me. Please be town so I can win a game on this site.

Seven, point out my supposed anti-Town behavior, please.

Too many gambits, not enough discussion on other game events. Plus, you tend to push lurkers and people who ignore you. It seems too easy.

Can't tell if Aptil is bad town or...

The whole Wake, Boro, Aptil, Maenara escapade makes me laugh, noting this for future reference

Now it seems to me you are really asking how i could not have free time last week. i think that is personal question and i had a good reason for doing that i am not going to answer that at all.

Okay, so when are you going to generate content for us?

Since Maenara has apparently gotten off on the wrong path, I'm hoping everyone remembers her initial vote on me. She has the guts to try to twist my words against me as Scum. If she were wise, she'd go with the flow and actually answer questions. I'm now 51% sure she's Scum.

Really? Where? I'm reading the slot as town right now.

What does everyone make of Maenara's vote and my Scumhunting?

Maenara's vote is most likely caused by irritation. Your scumhunting is alright, and I don't mind looking at all the reactions you're netting.

Way to ask a loaded question.

What do I think, I think your full of shit personally.

I think maera's vote is justified and her reasonings are pretty soild.

Hell, I can't believe I didn't do this already.

VOTE: Wake88

How the hell do I not read this as opportunistic? You even push a fake policy lynch later. Soooooooo scummy.

RainbowPony gets townier and townier

The fact you claimed early to help town doesn't help town. It hurts town in a way actually because it lessens the playing field for scum to find PRs.

For those of you who care, the current chances of scum finding a PR increases from 2/15 (13.33%) to 2/14 (14.29%) by Day 1's end. The chances of scum finding a PR increases with increasing days, but early on, the difference is pretty negligible.

Lora: Questions questions polite interrogation setup speculation scum

VOTE: Loranthaceae

You redeem the towniness you lost during that policy lynch business.

Ugh! My townreads are pseudo-lynching one of my townreads. You will not have my support on this pseudo-wagon of yours.

I find wake a distraction, unreadable and just generally useless.

Wake you are spamming, you need to understand this:
Too little content allows scum to dominate.
More content allows town to scum-hunt better
Too much content overwhelms town

Its a U shaped curve.

Your falling into the latter catagory. See NY 161 for an example of this
So stop it.

And where does your content fall into this U-shaped curve of yours?

Side note BS just crashed and burned out of my town read column in a single post.

Yeah, it was pretty bad. But +more townpoints for RainbowPony. Regarding the Aptil comment, the issue I had wasn't so much the vote, but that the person wasn't going to be able to defend himself based on what the previous person did. It sounded a lot better at the time. I'm not going to defend the rest of it though, because it was what I was thinking at the time.

In other news Skull and Don are still both town, and Lora still needs to die. They've been way too cautiously probing the situation, trying to avoid attention intentionally.

The Don_Johnson case keeps popping up and I keep forgetting what it is so it's not coming together in my head. I'll need to re-read later to figure it out. I do agree with the Skull and Lora reads though.

JS is scummy as shit up to this point. Why is he not up for a lynch?

Lora is a bit over-defensive and it doesn't look town to me.

Also lost in the post : Why did people not pursue this further ? (this means the questionable decisions of TNE at the start).

I read it as town. TNE was giving his analysis on someone else's opinions regarding a wagon. I don't have a problem with his vote.

I don't like Brian's lack of lack of analysis. He usually posts a lot more content. His recent posting lacks this.

I didn't take you for a meta person. Anyhow, I'm linking (again) my only completed game thus far: Mismatched Mafia.
I had a heavy game-load and my play-style has been somewhat adjusted. It's kind of reverting back though.

Starting to see what Anti-hero is saying about Jmo only talking about surface-level stuff.

^ What spot, the early-game asskissing spot? Deja vu. I told you then and I'll say it again. Townies have scum reads not townreads. SCUMREADS!

There are players who townhunt and find scum through PoE as well. I kind of use this strategy.

What the hell? Wake practically admits he is the sk and everyone ignores this? No reasoning why I am wrong or right? Major scum points for everyone above me.

There's no guarantee he's the SK, and if he is, he's dumb. There's no reason to keep him to Lylo without a clear and Mafia should be targeting him if they think he's the SK. The gambit makes me think he's more likely to be town than scum, and he can be dealt with later.

sven: mae+skull+me+you+rainbowdash sounds like a solid townblock to me. now, a big part of the awesomeness of a townblock comes from the fact that they vote scum together. I say we vote for BP or jmo (for reasons that RBD and I have already stated). I would also roll with a jacob wagon. But what does anyone else think?

I think you have a good townbloc assuming you and Sven are town. I think you all could be town, so I don't have a problem with it currently.

I prefer the JS wagon personally. A BP wagon is alright. I'm going to need a case because I can't remember what he's done up to this point. I'm still conflicted - leaning town on Jmo. Make a case and I might consider it.

Maybe I should replace out and I will if others want me too, but I was excited to play this game. I have no problem playing it when my RL calms down which should hopefully be in a few days

If you want to play this game so bad, then do your best to create content and stay in. I don't see you as a possible Day 1 lynch up to this point, so I think you're fine for now.

Svenst sounds town with that "you can't earn my trust that easily" tidbit.

JS throws down an RVS-style vote onto Svenst. Like, seriously, how is this not lynched yet?

Ignoring Titus at this point.

Except that post is not begging the mafia to kill him. Rather, it suggests alignment with the mafia. Keep me alive mafia and I'll find discrepancies. It seems like he'd lead their mislynches. Why not direct anything at the SK? Either he is the SK or he absolutely wants us to think he is. I'm thinking the former as I can't see any rational player wanting the town to think he is the SK. He was likely trying to communicate that to the mafia. The problem is he wasn't subtle enough.

Mafia, you tempted to kill me tonight? You'd be unwise to write me off as detrimental to Town. If there are anomalies throughout the Days, I'll find them.

Okay, I lied. I couldn't help commenting on this.

Wake is explicitly egging the Mafia on to kill him tonight. He is literally asking them to shoot him or risk being caught by him.

I find Titus to be a little illogical at times, so the misrep is a null-tell for me right now.

Skipped Wake's wall-posts right before my prod on page 29.

No one currently with votes attracts me, but wake, jacob and jmo are in my eyes acceptable. Wake because i dont understand him, jacob seems to be in troll mode and jmo is inactive.

People I would be willing to vote

aptil, utcitron, don_johnson, antihero, jmo

hmm i guess you can add boro and lora aswell.

What happened to

Wake and

JS? Out of this list so far, I'm liking Lora and JS the most. Maybe boro or Aptil.

Do you find it odd that, after I mention and vote for Uctriton, you then post three seperate reads on various players? It seems like a diversion.

Noted. But Uct is in his voting list, so I don't think it's that weird at all.

I would vote Sven or Manera (preferably Manera who is actually up to about my third pick for scum) here in a heartbeat over Loren and Wake.

This is interesting.

Is there a particular reason or is it because they're blatantly buddying?

Also, Wake might as well be temporary-confirmed town at this point, so that part makes sense.

Rach iand Maenara are town. The rest of the clowns on my wagon are scum, imo.

Sven makes the most compelling case of the game on antihero and yet he votes for his scumbuddy only to jump off him at the fist occasion.

How did you get a townread on Rach? The second part is interesting, but it just looks like Sven settling on a wagon he likes. What makes you think Jmo and Sven are scumbuddies?

I would also love an elle or BS lynch at this point. Both are aggressively avoiding this game.

Um, no. Pretty sure Elle asked for replacement. And I haven't been aggressively avoiding this game. I took on a heavy game load and put this one on the back-burner based on deadlines.

And why are you pushing lynches on inactives instead of scumreads? How is this different than your push on BP's policy lynch on Wake?

Apparently Elle and I are scumreads.

BP's wagon analysis is pretty good. I'm kind of sad I'm never mentioned, but seeing as how I haven't voted anyone and have been inactive, it's understandable. The only problem I have at a quick glance is him voting the scumread with the smallest wagon.

Actually when I went to pull the quote it was BS defending her (which is why I think they are both scum in part)

I tend to defend people when I shouldn't. Kind of like you. If you think that's scummy, then it's just whatever.

Plus TNE who she replaced WAS scummy.

Eh? That's not how I feel about TNE. Difference in opinion I guess.

Skelda, why do you say scummy things? I'll sort you later.

Nothing else up to this point has caught my interest.


Other thoughts:
Elle - Post 181 feels wrong. Continues to push the "definitive read" argument against Skull in 217.
Wake - Using too many gambits early on when discussion is already being generated. Comment on the discussion. Stop baiting people to earn slimy towncred. Still liking his analyses and whatnot, so he's still town for me.
Jmo - Ignored him for the most part the first time through.

Looks succint and towny on the re-read.

Starting to see what Anti-hero means about Jmo only touching surface-level stuff. Still like him for town, though.
Uctriton - Seems to pop-up in weird spots for me (as in, I can never remember what I'm thinking of the slot before he comes in). But his reaction to Wake's VT claim and other posts read town for me. His reaction to Wake being an SK does not.
Skull - The more people push this slot and misrep him, the more I think he's town.

Voting List
Aero - The "you don't like questions" argument against Skull in Post 220 feels wrong. Wake has a pretty good argument against this slot in Post 399.
Aptil - I'm a bit wary because I think this slot could just be badtown. But there hasn't been any content generated.
Loran - I've liked the cases brought up against this slot.
JS - This slot is scummy.

I'd consider but I need a case
BP
DJ
Uct
Jmo
Maybeeeeee Anti-hero


Anyhow, of the people from my voting list, Loran has the most votes.

VOTE: Loran

THIS PEOPLE

THIS THIS THIS

That's content. That's bloody content. Tomorrow, the day after, the day after again, we can go back and look at this post. We can look at all the things he said, weigh 'em up against his later actions, weigh 'em up against the flips, and actually USE it. THAT's content, and that's what we bloody well need.

That said, two things. First of all, you need to summarize better. Reading the post is hell, and while I realize the sweet irony of saying this halfway through a wall of my own, user friendliness is the name of the game. If we want town to work, we need to all have stuff that we can actually make each other read. Secondly, I think you're focusing overmuch on the inactives. Like some of the very people you're saying are voteable, inactives have a tendency to get replaced. Even if they don't, we can always lynch them on a day when we need a filler kill, and trust me, in a 20 player game, we will. At the moment, we need info, and voting for outright inactives is just not going to get us that.

Votecount 1.14

BoroPhil - 3 - Rainbowdash, Antihero, Skelda
Loranthaceae - 3 - RachMarie, Maenara, Svenskt Stål
jmo16mla - 2 - Evil Regals, Loranthaceae
Skullduggery - 2 - elleheathen, Aeronaut
Svenskt Stål - 2 - don_johnson, JacobSavage
Wake88 - 2 - Titus, uctriton00
elleheathen - 1 - Skullduggery
JacobSavage - 1 - jmo16mla
Maenara - 1 - aptil
Rainbowdash - 1 - BoroPhil
uctriton00 - 1 - Wake88

Not Voting: Brian Skies

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2013-10-11 11:43:19)

V/LA: Evil Regals through Monday October 7; uctriton00 through Monday October 7; don_johnson through Sunday October 6

A few people are making the most of the noise here.

I'd like to hear more from:

Rach, don - your votes are on replaced players. what do you think of their replacements?

Skull, jmo, aptil, wake, Brian (and I think uct now?) - you have votes on people with 0/1 votes. are you planning on moving these somewhere else; if not you must have a great case against those players? let's hear it.

SEE THIS HERE? See it? That's exactly what I've been talking about the whole time! He's trashposting, asking questions, throwing out vague, non-committal statements, and never ever making a stand on anything! This is what we need to get rid of.

VOTE: Uct

Please follow.

Nvm.
VOTE: Loran

I mean uct is just coasting. No concerns about who is voted or any thoughts about the game, says he will post tommorow, good vote

What the hell was that?

My case on JS? He hasn't provided any content. Pretty simple.

He hasn't provided noise either. Chances are, voting for him won't change anything rapidly enough for our needs.

@Stål's UCT thing, yeah, UCT needs to shape up, but he's not our main target ATM.

yes, it is quite ironic that sven's only contribution is being upset because people are "not contributing".

vote sven. you won't be disappointed.

brian: don't ever do that again.

Dude. DUDE. Stop it. You're supporting the diametrical opposites of what we need.

Back and skimmed the pages over the weekend.

My honest impression of this game: this game has a lot of people in it, and there are people calling us "the lurker queue" in some manner. I was on VLA so that's my excuse, not sure what everyone else's excuse is. For me it's personally hard to keep track of all these votes.

Here are my own personal thoughts that I have going on in my head about people I voted in this game:
Wake = terrible gambiting and is not helping anyone with that approach. It basically tells scum to leave him alone (which is terrible in itself because he basically tells the game "well i never die at night because scum don't want to hurt me"), and he buys himself a town card by claiming himself as VT Day 1. Yeah I've done that before when I was a new player back in the day, but I never EVER told anyone to vote for me before. I was willing to let him slide just to see if we could get a better picture of him, but then I think it was either DJ or Titus who said that an SK role can clearly benefit from this strategy. I'm willing to roll that dice that he is an SK, or if not, it calls him on his own damn bluff of "hey guys vote me out!".
Skull = that was my early vote which was spawned from sheeping. The game went by so fast (I didn't even get to read the game before it was at several pages). I went to ISO the lead wagon and it looked good. But my gut says a Day 1 mislynch would be way easy to get in a big game, so we should stop.
DJ = After feeling that Skull was thus town, I sheeped the Skull read on DJ. It looked good (I was vague about it DJ but I can point out sentences in detail about what posts I found suspicious). The vote came off because the SK Wake theory came up and I like it way more.
Titus = My impression of him will depend greatly on it.
Sven = I have ZERO clue what that vote and unvote was for on me. Tell me, Sven.

I've only played with a few other people in this game but haven't picked up on anything yet.

Pretty sure I'm going to get **** on by the "active" bloc in this game but these are honestly my opinions right now.

Too little, too superficial. Add more input on people who are less prominent. Add more depth to the people who are this prominent. Add something that hasn't been said before.

And now Uctriton lies again by saying I'm angry.

When people play dishonestly,

routinely

, they earn my vote.

DUDE SHUT UP

Wake, this discussion will continue when more evidence appears. If it is evidence of you being the sk, we will discuss further then. If you are magically cleared, then I will apologize. I doubt the latter will happen. It is important to catch scum first. I am fine moving to my less certain reads for now because you are not likely to be lynched.

No, you can argue it right now regardless of new evidence, and continue doing so when new info comes up.

There's no need to apologize for Scumhunting, either.

If you feel so damned certain I'm the Serial Killer, then go for it. You've got time. I think you should put your time and effort towards the one you're most certain about,

regardless

of what the majority thinks.

Normally, I'd agree with this. However, with the division in the town, number of players and lack of any major trains forming suggests I don't have the time to do that.

This guy gets it. We're running out of time.

Dashie I have you as a town read but why are you pushing on Elle who is not playing any more instead we are waiting for a replacement for that slot and one more? It is not like you to push on low hanging fruit instead of trying to find out who else is more scummy amongst those who are active and actually playing.


Brian could you not do teeny font please? I had an impossible time trying to read a chunk of your wall post under the spoiler because it was so small. I already have my browser way zoomed in since I am 70% blind, so that is not really a possibility to do again.

So far I have not seen a lot to want me to change my mind off of HGH/Loran

So I have been focusing on getting some town reads to by PoE make the potential scum list smaller to find more scum.

Excuse me? You read this thread closely enough that you've actually

read

Brian's post, and yet you still can't add more than this? Yeah, fair point on Ellie, but really? We need activity so badly, and you're not even trying to pressure anyone. Fix that.

How is uci lying? And Sven is starting to irritate me, his lurker suspicion doesn't feel justified.

Brian, you reminded me about the DM read list thingy? Why didn't that wagon take off again? I'm still suspicious of him and BP.

Loran, I'm sort of unsure about. I'm not convinced, though. Can someone explain why she is so much more scummy than DM and BP? And Titus, I do think if you really feel strongly about Wake, go for it. Changing your vote because of pressure is a scumtell for me.

They were equally scummy. Then Lora shaped up and started providing actual content, without it being solely for the sake of self-defence. That makes them less scummy.

I'm really sorry about the lack of activity guys, I promise that whatever happens, I'll post

something

of relevance tomorrow, once I'm done being out of my bloody mind over everything, and I'll respond to everyone who's said something to me, there are just too many people for me to have been able to do a half-assed job of it.

Objectively speaking, is there a correlation between activity and alignment in your game?

Current games aside, my meta - what little of it exists - is half a year old. I tend to have a problem with activity in general; it doesn't really matter if I'm town or scum. Generally, the less of a clue I have of what to do, or the more work has piled up in front of me, the less I post. So, pretty typical there.

Wow the wagons chilling at even votes makes me think that scum aren't in danger currently or else the votes would look a lot different. I'm still reading or read the skull slot town.

Stal's response the last one looks Crüel to me to Titus. With that in mind without reading what I missed I don't think I would shed a tear if you got rope.

Do you still exist? Why are you here? Should you not be replacing out, or, I don't know, posting?

Please pick one.

Me.

And thats the problem with some players, you vote with feelings, not reason

Again, you are implying those who are voting for you are unreasonable. We ask you for reasoning. You refuse and call us dunces. That's not an effective strategy regardless of alignment.

There is zero resoning to vote me if you are a analytical town player, i am active, i post my thoughts when i have them.

I dont agree with your reasonings and your cases, that does not mean i cant belive that you nelive in them, you are one of my strongest townreads and i agree with about zero of your conclusions

Voting Stål is bad. This is not to say that I agree with him on everything - obviously - but he's a really bad vote right now.

Dashie I have you as a town read but why are you pushing on Elle who is not playing any more instead we are waiting for a replacement for that slot and one more? It is not like you to push on low hanging fruit instead of trying to find out who else is more scummy amongst those who are active and actually playing.

Never realized he was being reaplaced until it was pointed out. Replacing or not they are still by far the scummiest slot in the game though.

jmo and sven both looking like very good counters to Loren right now.

uctri would be nice if we had time as well.

vote jmo

While I get more caught up. Somewhat shameless joining of the wagon town reads like.

Stål is still a bad wagon. JMO is just... I don't know, lazy? I mean, okay, he's pretty far down on my list, but I don't think he sinks below a null. What is wrong with him, specifically?

Gut read said aptil, now i wanna hard charge uctrriton.

Vote uctri

Your move. Change your vote and he is tied for most.

Come on. Look at his posts. What is voting him going to help right now? He's already defeatist. We can't change that in this few days, and he's not scummy enough to merit a lynch for anything other than inactivity.

oh hey!

i'm being called scum for sharing townreads with someone (one of whom is me, and one of whom I said was town before)...

that's just... great

i'm going to go smash my head against a cinder block wall now, i'll catch ya'll later...

Oh, you're also here?

POST.

Gut read said aptil, now i wanna hard charge uctrriton.

Vote uctri

Your move. Change your vote and he is tied for most.

I am one of your two likliest scum, and now we are cooperating?
VOTE: Uctri

Guys? Guys. No.

This is the wrong way to go about things. He won't provide you with info, and he's not sufficiently scummy on his own. Or at least provide a bloody case saying that he is.

Stal, why the change though? It seems as if you're in favor of whichever lurker wagon is best.

Hmm look, an innactive player is someone i cant have much of a solid case on... So it becomes more of a flavor of the month, one post can tip the scale.

Now say that it was an active player, then it would take more because i would have a more solid case and suspicion.


And uctritons post was god awfull.

Yes, yes, it was awful. But you're still looking wrong at the activity deal. It's not the activity itself that matters, it's the content. Consider that, and everything changes.

I want to vote someone from here

Antihero
Skelda
jmo
Jacob
uct
Aero

I'm happy with jmo as it stands but uct is also a good lynch. Ridiculous really that some of the others have had no attention on them, but there you go

Traaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaashpost.

Actually he had thoughts.

Sven if I go down, can you pleeeeeeeeeeeeease go down next? Anyone? Scum if you're listening, can you seriously take him down hard? Or at least town take him down hard next round?

Seriously you think you're running the game and think you have it all figured out.

And you don't like my vote on Loran? Here's my thought process:

- As pointed out, we are running out of time
- ISOed the largest wagon
- Found something that's scummy
- Latched onto it

As for everyone else voting me (or at least putting me in a lynch pool), my flaw is that I haven't been active in this game because it just went TOO ******* FAST for me and I never got caught up or into it. That's seriously why I've done a crapload of sheeping and tunnelling.

I'm going to take a stand for my "lurker" block, and say that the case Sven puts out of all active people being town is either a naiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive as **** town, or a scum who is scratching himself as he chuckles.

I'm not going to be anti-town and vote myself or advocate people voting me, so here is my lynch pool:

Sven, for being ridiculous and saying "everyone active is town to me, so let's kill off lurkers"
Wake, for his terrible anti-town gambits.
Or my current vote,

Loran

, because it's the most lynchable pool, and my theory is that he "read up" on his predecessor slot because he needed to carefully see how scum laid it out his story so that he doesn't get caught up in any inconsistencies. My guess is that as town, you just go into the game and not care what your previous townie slot said. By going back and reading back what HGH said, he is trying to be careful and calculative.

Okay. This is good. I don't actually agree with all of it - the 'read up on predecessor' thing is flimsy at best - but yes, Sven needs to reconsider the lurker thing. And this is content. That's good. Continue like this.

I would gladly lynch anyone who (stackable):

Ever had a townread on someone who wasn't in danger of getting lynched.
Brought up the speed of a wagon build-up as a valid argument for scumhuning, and whoever reponded to it without calling out for the bullshit it is.
Who failed to provide good reasons for voting someone who has a fairly adequate amount of posts.
Made a list of people who he wants to lynch consisting of easy targets.

I have yet to add up everything but I'm looking at Brian Skies, Titus, jmo, Sven, RD, BP

I suggest everyone proceeds in this manner because listing people, flip flopping, massive-catchup-posting and such are not productive.

This is a good post. I don't agree that people should

only

do this, but they should definitely do this too. It's necessary. You can be town for now.

[Maenara]

So, what can we say about people, then?

Well, we have a block of contributing-enough-to-count-as-town-for-now: Stål, Rainbowdash, Skull, Don, Titus, and yours truly. Then there are the people who don't say enough, but whose posts have made me sincerely believe they are town: Brian, Lora, Skelda. That's a total of nine players. That's not even enough for a lynch. That's bad. I could comment on each of these players, and I will, in time, but they've been engaged in enough banter that I think it scarcely necessary for now.

Bearing that in mind, there are a couple of other groups:

BoroPhil stands on his own, and I'll just go ahead and vote for him immediately:
VOTE: BoroPhil
He has the third greatest number of posts, and yet he has contributed zero content. Like, at all. He's not gonna be town. If you look at my wall, you'll a choice few places where I've quoted him, and see that he does nothing but throw out superficial statements about who-knows-what, then vanishing back to the dark pit whence he cameth. He doesn't take a stand on anything. He doesn't try to pursue anyone. He's not playing to our wincondition.

Another category of his own is Wake. Wake is an idiot. He needs to die. Don't listen to him.

Then there are the lurkers. They are legion. Jacob, Aptil, Anti, Aero, Evil, Rach. The late Elle, but now she's replaced, fortunately. We can't use them for anything, but voting them is stupid. We won't gain anything from that.

And then there are the semi-lurkers. It is on these that we need to rely, which is sort of ironic, 'cause these are the people who are the most scummy. Still, we need at least two of them to get enough votes for a lynch - one, if we can get Albert in the active group - and that requires an unanimous decision amongst all the actives. The semi-lurkers, of course, are Uct and JMO. Neither has said enough to be active, but I don't think it's quite fair to call them lurkers either. Thus, we need to engage them. And they need to vote. Right now.

Personally, I propose three different solutions. The ideal one would be lynching Boro. He's supremely scummy right now, so he sort of deserves it. Of course, it also seems like half the town block have him as town, which I find a bit odd, so if y'all would be so kind as to explain why in the name of sweet Hastur he isn't scum, I'd appreciate that. The other solution would be to lynch Wake, because honestly, we need him gone. He's disruptive. He's top of the posting chart, and he hasn't done anything pro-town at all. But that one already fizzled. The third solution is to vote for one of the two semi-actives. That, at least, might stir them into action, and if it doesn't, well, they're refusing to act pro-town, and thus deserve the lynch.

As you can see, I've already chosen one of the three for myself, but I'm willing to do either one, and I suggest that everyone do the same.

[Maenara]

holy shit

I did say I would do something constructive today. Besides, my shrinks had given me the wrong time, so I've missed my appointment and won't get a new one 'till November. I have a bit of frustration to work with in the meantime, and it so happens that I'm channeling it here.

Please read it, though. I have a lot of things for you, in particular.

[Maenara]

Also if we vote for one of the semi-lurkers, it should be JMO. How does he even have 56 one-liners?

[Maenara]

Peh, I'm not gonna have much luck convincing you about it here and now. Remind me to discuss content vs. activity with you post-game. Theory-crafting creates too much clutter here.

P-EDIT: Normally, I'd agree with you, but given the time-frame here, we don't have the time for a reaction wagon. We need a lynch, quickly.

(And yes, three days is quickly in a 20-player game)

[Maenara]

Don't recall other claims than Wake claiming VT. He's an idiot, by the way, and his posts can be skipped easily, unless you're searching for a SK, which some people think he might be.

Don't bother waiting for reasons for the other wagons; it'll take more than a day to get them, and by that time, we can't marshal up enough to lynch 'em. I've given my three suggestions in #932.

[Maenara]

So Meanara you say you don't disagree with my 786 yet you still slate me for it? what a load of bollocks.

and I don't/didn't know what a policy lynch was. I've heard it banded around a lot but didn't know what it was.

what exactly do you mean by I'm not pursuing anyone? I'm a hell of a lot more active than you who has done basically fuck all for most of the game then comes along with that. Fine, you don't think my scumhunting is any good, but at least I am trying to do something in this game which is more than I can say for 85% of the players, including you for the majority.

First off, I played against you

before

my half-year-hiatus. If you haven't learned what a policy lynch is in that time,

you

should be policy lynched.

Secondly, as I've stated a few bloody billion times already, you're not generating content. You're not scumhunting. You're making superficial statements that anyone and their adopted grandmother could've made while reading the thread upside down in a tornado.

And thirdly, concerning 786, you may have heard of a common criticism of string theory being that "It isn't even wrong". That's pretty much what applies here. It's not wrong, because there's nothing in it. 's like, clean water doesn't taste bad; that doesn't mean whoever invented it was good at designing tastes. Just means it tastes like bugger all. And that's exactly why what you're doing is scummy: When you're only making statements that are so blindingly obvious as to be straightforward and uncontroversial, you're keeping yourself out of harm's way, but not adding to town's hunt for scum at all.

[Maenara]

Okay, seriously, screw this game. No coordination, no nothing, and Wake just
won't
shut
up.

Stål, Albert, Brian, and all other actives currently voting for some ridiculous tiny wagon, why are you not on one of the big ones? And why freaking Aptil? That's just yet another bloody lurker.

[Maenara]

Fine I'll go along with the bloody Aptil wagon too.

If everyone would please get their precious lazy behinds over on this here wagon so we can at least get rid of someone who has yet to do anything pro-town and thus get this FUBAR day over with, that'd be might appreciated.

That goes for you, too.

Yes, you.

Vote.

[Maenara]

VOTE: Aptil

[Maenara]

Okay, seriously, screw this game. No coordination, no nothing, and Wake just
won't
shut
up.

Stål, Albert, Brian, and all other actives currently voting for some ridiculous tiny wagon, why are you not on one of the big ones? And why freaking Aptil? That's just yet another bloody lurker.

you obviously need to read.

You obviously need to shut up, think, then start talking again, this time about the game and all the lovely ways you're planning on starting contributing right this moment.

[Maenara]

No
NO NO NO

Wrong move.

Vote for Aptil. We need a wagon right now. No spreading the votes. Vote Aptil.

I am so unimpressed by your continuous ability to ignore half of what has been stated repeatedly, in bold pink text. Actually, make that impressed. It's impressive.

Revote.

[Maenara]

We're back to Boro? Excellent.

Johnson, Stål, Rampage, get over here and we'll actually be able to get this thing over with.

VOTE: BoroPhil

[Maenara]

Actually, with Evil's vote, we only need two of you. So yeah, hurry up.

[Maenara]

VOTE: Evil Regals

We were promised reads.

[Maenara]

So, chances are that at least one of {Stål, Rampage, Titus, Johnson} are scum, but honestly, I'm not really seeing any of them as particularly scummy in themselves, nor any of them particularly worse than any of the others - though Titus is quite a bit more townie than the rest of them, so probably not her, particularly given the early vote - so I really don't care to try to figure out which of them it is at this point of today.

Instead, I'm just gonna ask y'all to

maybe

cast your nets a wee bit wider, or at least stop clogging up the bloody thread, 'cause having to read nine quadruple-posts in a row is seriously sapping my will to comment on this game.

At the moment, I want pressure on Evil. This is early in the day, which is the best time to put pressure on lurkers, and not only did they promise us some freaking reads that we've yet to get, they were also one of the Johnny-vote-latelies on the scumwagon, which is a pretty good sign.

TL;DR: Less flood-of-posts, more pressure-the-non-contributors.

[Maenara]

EDIT: Okay, that's actually a lie, Albert feels pretty scummy, but I honestly just don't want to argue with him right now because that'll bring this game nowhere useful.

[Maenara]

Okay, granted, I want that vote, but your continued buddying past the need for town unison is seriously creeping me out.

[Maenara]

Fuck.
Quadruple.
Posts.

Stål I swear to fucking Hastur I don't know what to do with you. Your buddying is creepy as hell, and at this point I'm at my wits' end, but so in awe of your ability to just keep on posting things that make virtually zero sense that I frankly want to see how far this trainwreck goes. Your posts since the start of this day have just been spiralling ever-more-quickly down towards what I

assume

is your happy-place, but which the rest of us call Sweet Hades.

@TheTrainWreckThatIsThisCopClaim

Why would you claim this early? WHY would you claim this early? This is NOT the correct move! You crumb your result

heavily

, then hope to live another day to search on! That way, if scum kills you, town still gets your result, but if scum doesn't, you actually have a chance of catching two. How is this

not

obvious to people?

And yes, for the cheap seats, if Lora isn't the cop, the real cop shouldn't counter-claim, because that'd be bloody dumb.

VOTE: Wake

Oh my goodness have I wanted to do this again for a long time.

I'll try to actually read this thread when it's not 3:34 AM and I haven't been spending the entire night reading dumb fanfiction.

And UCT is massively scumming it up in here right now what the hell is even up with that.

And Evil is still not cleared.

[Maenara]

EDIT: In case it wasn't obvious enough the I'll-read-the-thread-tomorrow thing means Please Don't Hammer, because even though we have a result, and thus know who to lynch, we shouldn't be idiots and waste the remainder of a perfectly useful day.

[Maenara]

Well look at Wake making sense for once.

Twilight zone all up in this business, it seems.

Still gonna lynch 'im. 's the only proper move.

[Maenara]

Well, duh.

It also makes zero sense to

lynch

a claimed cop Day 2 in a 20-player game with the confirmed presence of a Doctor.

[Maenara]

I mean actually I hadn't really considered the doc before; that makes it an almost-okay-move, 'cause now we can totally play follow-the-cop until the doc dies.

[Maenara]

...

You're absolutely right.

I'm sorry. My previous post on this matter was wrong and uncalled for.

Allow me to amend my prior statement: Anyone with a brain should do exactly what Rainbowdash just said.

[Maenara]

@Maenera how could you not know that there's a doctor in the setup?

Oh, I knew. I just hadn't taken it into consideration. It was like three or four in the morning.

Now it's eight. Still haven't slept. Will read today, though.

[Maenara]

Right, I've read.

So, I'm not even going to bother analysing all the talk back and forth about Wake/Lora yet. Lora has been acting totally outlandishly about this whole affair, but honestly, at this point, following RBD's plan is the brightest idea. All but, like, three or four people have posted after that post, so presumably we'll know soon if anyone's counterclaiming or not. Whatever the case, lynch Wake - yeah, he may have been playing better today, but he's not exactly been such a saint that we'll miss 'im, and besides, it's the only sensible way with the PR interaction being as it is. TBH, no more needs to be said about the whole deal that isn't "I'm ready for this day to end", "I still need to read and discuss the others some more", "Vote: Wake" or "I'm cop".

So, the rest, then. Right. ABR has been playing lazily. He has barely been contributing, and for all that it may be BOP speaking, I'm finding that majorly suspicious. Him following my lead doesn't help either. Stål is still surprising everyone with his tremendous feats of mental acrobatics, and honestly would do well to just pipe down for a while and consider that alternate scenarios to his proposed ones do exist. Don has been Don, no change there. RBD has proven themselves to be über-town. UCT is either incredibly scummy or incredibly lazy and I'm starting to get sufficiently annoyed to not care which it is. Jacob is still MIA. Rach-Marie is doing the same as JMO is doing the same as Antihero is doing the same as UCT, and Evil is like totalscumpleasedie (unless they softclaimed cop earlier, which I'm thinking that they did, and I sorta want that confirmed/deconfirmed now, given that we're awaiting a potential counterclaim), and still haven't really provided the reads that they promised. Aptil is a lurker like the previously mentioned quartet, only their reluctance to vote makes them look potentially even worse. Aaand I think that's everyone.

[Maenara]

Summary: Await posts from those whose latest pre-date Rainbow's to see if there's a CC, lynch Wake, then if town, lynch Lora, or if scum, lynch new result if postive, otherwise, extra pressure on Evil>Aptil>OtherLurkers>Albert>Stål>Skull>Titus>RBD

Oh, yeah, I forgot TItus in the above post. She's still being townie town mctown.

[Maenara]

...well, in truth, it's not so much that they're scum as in that they have an incredibly low content level and has been making promises to provide more that they have yet to cash in.

I read bull like

this

OKAY HERE'S THE DEAL.

I promise I'll read up when we hit into night because I

have

to make a decision one way or another. (Do not press this

unless

you know what's bad for you)

and I bloody well expect more than has been provided so far today.

[Maenara]

So yeah definitely need more pressure/explanations/anything from there. Promises and stuff needs to be enforced and right now they're just sliding by.

[Maenara]

So Lora is town and cop and an idiot.

Excellent.

And Wake is still Wake, thus meriting a policy lynch, but we've already pulped that particular horse, so not even gonna go there (except I just did).

UNVOTE: Wake

And Evil is still not cleared.

Since when was Evil cleared? I'm not following.

Point being that I'd said Evil needed pressure 'cause she'd promised reads and reading and whatnot late in D1 after a metric ton of lurking, and her few meagre posts D2 hadn't been enough to clear her of that. Also, so not buying the Doctor thing that RBD said; it anything, she was softclaiming cop with the "I have my reasons for Wake being town but totes won't be revealing them" crap (how would the doc even know that?), and seeing as we now

know

who the cop is, that makes it pretty clear that she's been scumming it up.

Oh, and she claims in her 23rd post - out of 1369 posts in the game - that she's not a lurker. Let's see, 1369 divided by 20, times I'm-studying-maths, divided by are-you-bloody-kidding, plus this-is-grade-school-level-come-on gives us an average posting rate of about fifty posts more than her. Now, granted, nobody should

be

at the level that Wake and Stål are, 'cause they've been threadcrapping and quadruple-posting, and 210 posts is just dumb, but I know for one that I've been less active than I really oughta, and I still have double her posts prior to posting this. So c'mon, don't claim you're not a lurker. Make excuses, sure, they might even be true, but don't flat-out lie, it doesn't suit

anyone

.

I want some analysis, or at the very least some thorough reads, from Evil. Right now. No more of this faking-it-'till-you-make-it bull. Lurkers are bad enough. Don't say you'll read up, then keep on lurking, then claim you're not lurking. That's just sad.

And we're back to
VOTE: Evil Regals

[Maenara]

Oh, and

TOWN
Don
Anti
JMO
Stål
Rach
Aptil
Jacob
Albert
SCUM

leaving out the obvious. And Wake.

[Maenara]

Didn't sleep this night either. Schedule is starting to become interesting. Contemplating buying & reading GURPS Zombies for maximum effect.

Lor is cop; if not, cop should counterclaim. If they do so, lynch Lor, but honestly, at this point, everyone's had their chance, so unlikely to happen. Assuming nobody counterclaims, doc protects Lor, no matter how inane the play, because Lor is confirmed cop, and not protecting that would be dumb as hell.

Nobody should beg to be investigated; we have an inv-immune SK, so a non-guilty just means "not faction-scum". Bragging about being investigated is dumb unless you want us to lynch you for being the SK.

Evil did this here scummy bull:

Also wake is town for reasons being withheld at the moment

which really makes no sense as anything but groupscum fakesoftclaiming cop.

YesPlease to the whole lynching Rach/Albert/Jacob deal (any given order) but we need Evil's whatever cleared up pronto.

[Maenara]

Dude, did you read anything other than the last two posts?

@Lora: as confCop, thoughts on Evil please.

[Maenara]

Oh

come on

. Evil is so

obviously

scum trying to back out of an ill-timed fakeclaim.

Seriously, just lynch them and get it over with.

[Maenara]

Oh

come on

. Evil is so

obviously

scum trying to back out of an ill-timed fakeclaim.

Seriously, just lynch them and get it over with.

Would you quote/link where ER claimed Doctor, please?

I never said she claimed doc; I'm saying she was softclaiming cop.

[Maenara]

To be specific, just because I know you won't bother to look half a page back and check, this:

Evil did this here scummy bull:

Also wake is town for reasons being withheld at the moment

which really makes no sense as anything but groupscum fakesoftclaiming cop.

[Maenara]

SK cant be NK. SK has, as a faction, bout 20%

Intelligent posting due later; for now, public service announcement that this is wrong: We're in a game with an Investigation Immune SK, not a Night Kill Immune one. Check the first page.

Please continue with your regularly scheduled lynchfest.

[Maenara]

I'm sorry about my lack of activity in this game in the last few days. Due to the various vagaries of life, such as they are, I've been finding it rather hard to affect the brash and righteous snark that has been my tone so far. As discontinuing my style so abruptly would serve to do naught but cause confusion, I thought it better to lay off the game for a couple o' days while I tried resting. Whatever the case, I realize that I am now well and truly behind - This being less than ideal, I'll thus do my very best to catch up and respond later today, regardless of however the mood and tone may end up.

For now, I'm a bit distracted, but I'll say the following:

Svenskt Stål needs to stop trying to buddy up to me. We had a pact, the first day, out of necessity. Town unison was needed, and using the most active players at the time was a good way to achieve this. It didn't turn out quite the way it should've - he wavered a bit at the end - but a lynch was achieved, so it's all good. I'm not liking his style today, but honestly, I need to re-read his ISO later.

Albert is begging for a lynch, it's true. It's not so much what he

has

done - I place rather little stock in slips - as what he hasn't done. As most of you have said, he has committed to no scum-hunting whatsoever; with his vague, empty posts, he's practically been begging for a lynch. He's been on the site for a long time, so for those of you who have played with him before, could we please get a few words on how this fits with his meta? From my brief experience with him, I'd assume it's a scumtell, but I'd appreciate if other (townie) players would weigh in on this.

I agree with Titus, concerning RachMarie - her inactivity is not in itself a scumtell, all things considered. Unlike what I assume to be the case for Albert, it's, well, in character. That said, re-reading her ISO, she seems to generally have a tone of forced emotion in her posts - nothing I can see any particular motivation behind, but it seems staged anyhow.

I'm not liking JMO. He's active, to be sure, and it's evident that he's reading the game, but for all this, he still isn't contributing much. It's just all, you know, jabs. Pokes. It's not helping us much - while it serves to give us all a feeling that he's there, and that he's been there the whole time, it doesn't actually get us any closer to finding scum. #1716 doesn't exactly improve my view of him.

Concerning Evil, I'd still appreciate it if people would go along with lynching her, but seeing as this doesn't seem to be a favoured route, I suppose I'll be willing to acquiesce to an investigation for now. Like I said earlier, her crumbing seems like groupscum trying for an ill-timed fake-claim, so I guess it'll be much the same result, in the end.

JacobSavage is pretty much the same as Rach, only more annoying and less staged.

Later.

[Maenara]

Okay, so, first of all - What the hell, Lora? Wasn't the plan to investigate Evil? Besides, what's the point of investigating ABR if what we're suspecting him of is being the SK?

Re-reading things and trying to make sense of them, I'm becoming increasingly set on the thought of lynching a lurker. We have, quite simply, got to many of them at the moment to be able to exclude them as a group, and unless they're pressured, they're not going to provide more content. At the moment, my frustration dictates that the target of choice be either Jacob or Aptil. As Jacob currently has more traction - if, perhaps, not amongst the most reputable crowd - I'll vote for him for now.

VOTE: Jacob

[Maenara]

VOTE: JMO

Nobody who actually cared to think about the game would believe that every suspect is dead, when Stål and Jacob are still alive.

This is a blatant case of misrepresentation and "look at how little I care about my life teehee".

You're not harmless. You're not cute.

You're scum.

[Maenara]

Fire and Ice was a game with 2x2 scum factions. This is a game with 1x4 scum + 1 SK. Moreover, it's been half a year. So that's incredibly irrelevant.

[Maenara]

It's two incredibly different situations, I'm not sure what you're even trying to get at.

[Maenara]

doc protects lora. lora investigates the scummy scummy scummy evil regals.

Loran, I really hope you didn't investigate Evil Regals last night. If you did, then

here's

the reason why Scum killed her.

Potential Doctor crumbs + Potentially screwing up the Cop's investigation = A kill that actually makes sense

Yeah that makes perfect sense.

Y'know, except Evil crumbed

cop

, not

doctor

.

Pity you didn't include JMO in that there group, Lora. I'm fairly certain you could've gotten a confession out of him and hammered two scum with one investigation. Still, gleefully awaiting the oncoming debacle.

[Maenara]

Okay so not a literal confession, I'm well aware that's just about against the rules, but as good as.

[Maenara]

We have no confirmed yet.

Besides, we should encourage as much talk as possible before the results are revealed. The more people say, the more chance for anxious scum to slip. Not talking right now is a scumtell.

[Maenara]

A+ reading skills; super townie. Nice to see who's following the game.

[Maenara]

maenara, how bout you chip in with your thoughts on the nk

DJ's explanation makes sense, though I'll still argue that Evil's crumbs were way more cop oriented, and that it'd've made much more sense if SK had killed Evil, while mafia killed Wake, under the assumption that they were targeting one another.

[Maenara]

Nice job kicking them when they're down, Uct. Figured you would wait until you'd killed him to say that?

@Lora, what are trying to say?

[Maenara]

Figured you would wait until you'd killed him to say that?

If he flipped scum then I would have said "nice try" and understood he was just trying to stay alive. It depended on what his role was going to be.

Did you just admit to being the SK?

[Maenara]

doc protects lora. lora investigates the scummy scummy scummy evil regals.

Loran, I really hope you didn't investigate Evil Regals last night. If you did, then

here's

the reason why Scum killed her.

Potential Doctor crumbs + Potentially screwing up the Cop's investigation = A kill that actually makes sense

Yeah that makes perfect sense.

Y'know, except Evil crumbed

cop

, not

doctor

.

Okay? Why are you telling me this? I'm trying to look at the situation from the Scum team's point of view.

Yeah but I don't really think anyone but you have managed to read it as doc crumbs.

DJ's explanation makes sense, though I'll still argue that Evil's crumbs were way more cop oriented, and that it'd've made much more sense if SK had killed Evil, while mafia killed Wake, under the assumption that they were targeting one another.

Why would it make more sense for the SK to kill the player who left Cop crumbs? The SK has nothing to fear from the Cop.

The point is, the doc crumbs were obviously

fake

, because we already know with almost certainty who the cop is - Namely, Lora. And it makes no sense for the SK to try to fakeclaim cop, whereas it makes perfect sense for faction-scum. So the SK would kill Evil thinking they were Mafia.

[Maenara]

Yeah but I don't really think anyone but you have managed to read it as doc crumbs.

Then why did you bring it up?

I didn't! You did!

[Maenara]

Excellent.

VOTE: RachMarie

[Maenara]

So yeah. Lora, claim immediately. A guilty is useful no matter how early it comes, and if you've got an innocent, there's like 95% chance that the SK will kill 'em while scum tops off you, so we sorta need to exploit their conf-town status right now.

JMO's massive scumfeast aside, I'd like to request that a sizeable portion of today be spent on lurkers, 'cause seriously, how do manage to still be a null-read on p. 80?

I realize I wasn't here enough yesterday. I've tried to get my life back on track since then, so that should be fixed by now.

[Maenara]

Right.

And holy hell is Uct seriously VLA 'till the 26th like what the hell?

[Maenara]

Stål could always be a SK.

DJ's attack on Titus is atrocious; her defense of RachMarie at a positively hopeless time is rather unlikely to come from scum with the current meta.

Why is Aptil not scum?

VOTE: Uctitron

How is one even VLA until the 26th?

[Maenara]

DJ's attack on Titus is atrocious; her defense of RachMarie at a positively hopeless time is rather unlikely to come from scum with the current meta.

can you explain this? what are you referring to with "the current meta"? I was right about rm. titus ignored it based on rl issues, and not only that, but gave her a town read. I see that as a pretty concrete connection to flipped scum that really shouldn't be ignored.

Current meta is that scum busses way too much, so whoever defends town in a blatant matter like that is, more often than not, town.

I'm not saying I agree with Titus' evaluation of RachMarie - obviously, and particularly not in hindsight - but I don't see any scum motivation behind it, particularly not given that she was, at the time, at risk of a guilty.

[Maenara]

And wtf rainbow, pretty sure that the only people I touched were wake and skull and DJ so does that mean I'm scum and have 14 scum partners?

No, that means you're really lazy scum.

[Maenara]

Well, this is just fantastic. Seven Uct posts on a single page, and not once does he bother to go back and look at people's past posts in an attempt to build a case or anything, save for citing a

single

Aptil post after already deciding to vote him. Nope, it's all talking about the night kills or hypothetical scum team composition or whatnot. Easy topics, in others words. I mean, come on, give me a break; you say that you have no idea about, me, Titus

and

RBD, the last one of whom we have a bloody innocent on. How are your ravings on the fact that they're not behaving like last time you were faction-scum together even relevant? We

know

they're not faction-scum, for goodness' sake!

So yeah. For all your attempted defusing self-awareness, you bloody well

are

scum hoping to deflect attention with a spike of activity. Heavens know I've done it myself, in past games, so I should think I recognize it.

My vote stays.

[Maenara]

Spoiler: Data

BoroPhil

- 11 - Antihero,

skelda

, Titus,

Skullduggery

,

Loranthaceae

,

mastin2

,

Rainbowdash

,

Evil Regals

, Maenara, Svenskt Stål, don_johnson
aptil - 5 - jmo16mla,

Albert B. Rampage

,

BoroPhil

, JacobSavage

Loranthaceae

- 2 -

RachMarie

, Brian Skies

Wake88

- 2 - aptil,

uctriton00

uctriton00

- 1 -

Wake88

Not Voting: ...

Albert B. Rampage

- 9 -

Skullduggery

, aptil, Titus, don_johnson,

uctriton00

,

Rainbowdash

,

Loranthaceae

, Svenskt Stål,

Wake88

JacobSavage - 4 - jmo16mla,

Albert B. Rampage

,

RachMarie

, Maenara
Svenskt Stål - 1 - Brian Skies

uctriton00

- 1 -

Evil Regals

Not Voting: JacobSavage, Antihero

RachMarie

- 8 -

Loranthaceae

, aptil, Maenara, Svenskt Stål, Titus,

uctriton00

, JacobSavage,

Rainbowdash

JacobSavage - 1 -

RachMarie

Not Voting: Brian Skies, don_johnson, jmo16mla,

Skullduggery

, Antihero

uctriton00

- 7 - Maenara,

Rainbowdash

, don_johnson, Titus,

Loranthaceae

, Svenskt Stål, aptil
aptil - 1 -

uctriton00

jmo16mla - 1 - JacobSavage

Not Voting: ArcAngel9, Antihero, jmo16mla

	Scum Wagon	Town Wagon	Undetermined	No Vote
Aptil	1	3	0	0
ArcAngel9	0	1	1	2
don_johnson	1	2	0	1
JacobSavage	1	0	2	1
jmo16mla	0	0	2	2
Svenskt Stål	2	2	0	0
Maenara	2	1	1	0
Antihero	1	0	0	3
Titus	2	2	0	0

	Lynch Wagon
Aptil	3
ArcAngel9	0
don_johnson	3
JacobSavage	1
jmo16mla	0
Svenskt Stål	4
Maenara	3
Antihero	1
Titus	4

VOTE: jmo16mla

[Maenara]

jmo: you're either scum with titus or you're not paying attention.

jmo is scum, but pairing him with Titus makes no sense. Look at my data post; they're quite possibly the most diametrically opposed players in the game. On day 5, any two scum would have

something

linking them together.

[Maenara]

@Antihero

Scum doesn't commit. jmo hasn't been on a single lynch wagon. He's also been scumming it up more than Arc, and honestly, me voting for ArcAngel is just getting clichéed at this point.

[Maenara]

i kno you can play better. time to use it. hope shrink apointment works out this month.

Why, thank you.

Honestly, the real reason why people should vote for JMO?

Because he has 137 posts without having been on a single lynch wagon.

The other three living people on the top 5, Johnson, Stål and Titus, have been on 3, 4 and 4, respectively. That makes sense. Anyone could have seen the past lynches coming from a mile away - in a game this size, they aren't exactly subtle - so pro-town players with a good level of activity will help lynch.

JMO has 137 posts. He hasn't lynched a single time. Coincidentally, none of the people for whom he has been voting at the ends of days - on those days where he did vote at all - have been night-killed. He has been doing a

lot

to avoid suspicion.

By comparison, the only other person who has been on 0 lynch-wagons, ArcAngel, has a total of 55 posts over the course of two players. The two people who have only been on 1, JacobSavage and Antihero, have 38 and 47 respectively.

Honestly, if someone's sticking out

this

much, something fishy is up.

JMO is scum. Lynch him.

[Maenara]

Because every time you guys lynch someone, I'm off line.

That only makes sense if you're willing to do nothing but hammer.

[Maenara]

Manera, if JMO is trying to avoid suspicuon but you vote him for stickng out in 2173? This contradiction suggests that you are thinkng jmo scum for another reason. His vote on me was bad but I worry when I see faulty logic.

Trying != Succeeding.

He has been

trying

to seem inconspicuous, by being active and voting and such, but the fact that he's been unwilling to commit to anything at all - probably in an unintentional attempt at garnering less persecution - betrays him.

[Maenara]

DJ looks the most likely candidate for SK .
Mafia between jmo,titus and antihero .

Conveniently forgetting JacobSavage.

[Maenara]

DJ looks the most likely candidate for SK .
Mafia between jmo,titus and antihero .

Conveniently forgetting

JacobSavage

.

He seems to be like me but only worse . Scum are trying to keep him for lylo while town believes he is indeed town and getting away with the lynch .

You know what , we should lynch between jacob or antihero. Jacob has done nothing and is most likely going to be a liabilty in LyLo . Antihero is conveniently posting in other threads but not this . He aint replacing out too . I think he has more chances of being scum than others have pointed out here .

What changed?

maenara: that makes it a bit more clear. I would think the behavior you are describing is more apt to come from an sk than mafia, though. I'd rather lynch mafia suspects first. lynching an sk may actually help mafia at this point.

I guess leashing would work when the kill descriptions differ between mafia/SK. How's this: jmo claims SK or gets lynched, and if he

is

SK, we direct his kills, then lynch him when the mafia's dead and gone? That way, mafia has to waste their kill on him if they want a chance to survive, and we still get a chance of cleaning the table if we manage to hit mafia today and with the directed night-kill.

[Maenara]

At least he's being comically straightforward about it.

In other news, jmo insists on not being the SK. The vote stands.

[Maenara]

Jacob has done nothing and is most likely going to be a liabilty in LyLo .

He seems to be like me

That is why i want JS to go that is it .

Aptil; the honest version.

[Maenara]

Oh come on, don't freaking sub out. We're 89 pages in, and you're responsible for more than a seventh of the posts in the game.

[Maenara]

Wow great.

Manera, why don't you ask why your name is blue?

I didn't read your post.

I will tomorrow.

[Maenara]

If you've got a problem with the speed, do something.

Johnson, replies to my suggestion RE: jmo; now, please.

[Maenara]

Well, he explicitly denied being the SK, so I say we lynch him. There's no way he's not either SK or Mafia.

[Maenara]

How's this: jmo claims SK or gets lynched, and if he

is

SK, we direct his kills, then lynch him when the mafia's dead and gone?

Then in the post right after that:

IM NOT SCUM WOMAN. Get of of me you're tunneling and you're wrong. Shit.

And now:

I may or may not be the SK.

Can we just please lynch?

[Maenara]

@everyonenotvotingforjmo: Why?

That means you, ArcAngel.

@Sven: Seriously, come on, stay around. Yeah, sure, you're frustrated. Who isn't? Johnson is frustrated. Titus is frustrated. Skullduggery is double-dead and probably frustrated. Hell, I, too, am frustrated, but such a whore for punishment that I'm still sticking around, ain't I? We're on page 90, man. Day five. Stay.

[Maenara]

Maenara, Show me why should i vote JMO

I already did.

ISO me or replace out.

NOW, if everyone would so kindly go back to my VCA and see that both don and maenara were on the BP wagon. They both hopped off, then both back on when the lynch was evident...

Yes. Yes, of course I bloody did. In case you forgot, the whole

point

of the end of that day was that we were running out of time, and were desperate to just get

some

lynch through. I freaking tried for ages to get BoroPhil lynched, but it just so happened that Rampage, Johnson and Stål were three of the most active people at the time, and all of them preferred Aptil to BoroPhil, so I jumped in an attempt to get

some

lynch through. It wasn't as if Aptil wasn't a viable freaking candidate as well.

Of course, all this would be apparent to anyone who had read the thread, but at current time, this seems to mean

nobody

.

[Maenara]

Town. Activity, decisiveness and a tendency to clash with the rest of the people I have as town.

[Maenara]

Maenara: Why does the last part make you think town? Conflicting with town doesn't make someone town.

Sure it does. Place multiple opinionated, outspoken, aggressive people in enclosed confines, and give them reason to be suspicious of one another. Who do you expect to be engaged in the loudest disagreements; the people who know what's going on, or the people who suspect everybody of being out to get them?

[Maenara]

And @Leashing, I still think it could work. If he claims SK and the kill doesn't take place as we direct it to, then we lynch him tomorrow without compromise. It's that simple. We can tell who the SK attacked, after all, so there's no chance for mafia to hide there - not to mention that even if there were, the

real

SK would then be able to finish them off. It gives us an extra lynch, and I see literally no way it could backfire on us, except if something outrageously inane happened, like a VT CCing SK.

[Maenara]

I mean, come on.

We are 9 people alive.

Stål is not Mafia. 8 people left.

Assume jmo is the SK and we leash him. He is then not in our lynch-x2-pool. 7 people left.

Every townie knows themselves to not be scum. 6 people left.

My Probability Theory & Statistics course doesn't start until tomorrow, but that

should

, even to my addled mind, be 1-(2/3)*3/5 = 1-6/15 = 9/15 chance of hitting at least scum

at random

. And honestly, I should hope that we could play above random.

P-EDIT:

@jmo: No, I'm telling ArcAngel to actually read the thread, at least the last few pages, or GTFO. Not because of you. Because of her. Specifically. There's a chance I might have been willing to restate things for someone else, but I've had it with ArcAngel not reading things.

[Maenara]

And about your damn post about me, I told you, I didn't read it the first time around, and I forgot it after that. Coming back to it now, after you've said what you have about the vote-jumping, it's obvious what you mean, and it's also obvious why you're wrong.

[Maenara]

Is it?

Yes:

. Yes, of course I bloody did. In case you forgot, the whole

point

of the end of that day was that we were running out of time, and were desperate to just get

some

lynch through. I freaking tried for ages to get BoroPhil lynched, but it just so happened that Rampage, Johnson and Stål were three of the most active people at the time, and all of them preferred Aptil to BoroPhil, so I jumped in an attempt to get

some

lynch through. It wasn't as if Aptil wasn't a viable freaking candidate as well.

Of course, all this would be apparent to anyone who had read the thread, but at current time, this seems to mean

nobody

.

[Maenara]

@Johnson, I'm not sure what you want me to address. I think you're town, so I'm obviously not going to go along with Titus' little escapade, but I don't want Titus lynched either, yet. Yeah, they're feeling

massively

off today, but they've been doing solidly until now. JMO crucially hasn't been willing to claim SK, so the whole leashing plan sorta is going down the drain.

I think perhaps the most important thing to focus on would be Jacob's completely stupendous course of action there, in voting for you. Jacob, there is no way that Johnson is today's lynch, and if you're so in agreement with Titus, why aren't you voting for JMO?

At the moment, I'm sorta mostly waiting for a replacement for Stål. Missing out on your just-about-confirmed townie is sort of a big deal.

[Maenara]

lets have pengiun decide who she wants to vote.

How about you start doing the same?

[Maenara]

No, I mean, how about ArcAngel starts reading and deciding too.

[Maenara]

lets have pengiun decide who she wants to vote.

How about you start doing the same?

I think aptil is scum. Who do you think is scum?

NO NO NO. You did not just ask that after I...

!

!

VOTE: ArcAngel9

Can we just really quick force ArcAngel9 to do something useful? I don't actually want them lynched, because there's, like, no way to tell if they're scum, and I sorta doubt it, but this is just inbloodytolerable.

[Maenara]

AA9 is being idiot town and lynchbait. JMO should be the lynch.

I'm not saying lynching AA is a good idea, I'm saying that we bloody well need to force them to do something because holy hell, this was happening back before I went on a hiatus, half a freaking year ago, how has she not stopped it yet?

[Maenara]

One day, ArcAngel will become so self-aware that she actually notices what she's been writing.

Until then, I guess I should move my vote back.

VOTE: jmo16mla

Jacob, your "I was just coming in to post but imma just put in a one-liner and then bugger off again" isn't endearing you to anyone.

@Antihero&Aptil, this thread still exists. Feel free to post.

Penguin, progress on your reading? We're starting to drown in invasive Russian plant species here.

[Maenara]

Why are are people not voting antihero yet?

Because 1) We need to do something about JMO, and 2) You're advocating it.

Oh, and 3) Half the players just aren't doing anything at all

[Maenara]

Titus, Johnson is obviously not scum.

Johnson, Titus is probably not scum, and either way, we definitely have scummier fish to fry (See: JMO, Aptil).

@Titus, still don't get your Aptil townread.

[Maenara]

&@Penguin, if nothing else, just read the last five pages and give us what you have so far, I don't want #YetAnotherRerun of The Lynch That Ran Out Of Time.

[Maenara]

B) She's been asking intelligent questions

Misgendering aside, are we reading the same poster?

[Maenara]

I was literally just coming into post.

@don: why wouldn't you just leave skul alive to claim just that?

the site was down yesterday to post
i am posting today. thank you.

/sigh, I am so tempted to replace out of this game; everyone's so caught up in their own little slap fights (DJ vs Titus, Mae vs Jmo), that the noise:signal ratio is overwhelming. Want to know how I know? I posted the reads list that titus howled for and ... no one gave half a shit.

But... I did sign up for this game, and I'm going to see it through.

Plus, penny is now here, so that's a positive development (oh look, i'm buddying, someone please twist that into a scumtell)

Totally waiting for the useful stuff from you guys. And no, that one-liner from Jacob doesn't count. Nor do those two one-line questions from ArcAngel. And certainly not the completely contentless so-called reads-list from Antihero.

Y'all aren't doing anything useful right now. If it's because you're waiting for Penguin, I will

very

grudgingly accept that, but you'd better bloody post something the minute she finishes up, then. If not, freaking deliver already. Don't pretend that you have, that is, and I dare you to say otherwise, so full of shit even

I

wouldn't be audacious enough to claim it, and heavens know I suck at timely posting. For those of you who haven't been following the game, the lay of the land is that Titus and Johnson are both town but have engaged in an impromptu mud-wrestling competition regardless, and JMO has been scumming it up so hard that he's starting to become covered in ducks. We've offered him a way out via the plan to leash him if he claims SK, but given that he refused this offer, the only sane remaining course of action is to follow through with the lynch. Meanwhile, the three of you jackanapes are nowhere to be found (the same can be said for Aptil, whose post #83 was atrocious, by the way, Titus, but shouting for the lynch of a V/LA'er is probably the grandest waste of time ever to take place in Mafia, so I'll let that one lie for now), Penguin, our one just-about-confirmed townie, is still reading, and the clock is running.

There you go. Now, make a decision, all of you.

[Maenara]

Dude. DUDE.

When I look back, d'you know what I see? I see 53 posts. JMO has been mentioned in a grand total of 18 of those. I'm pretty sure Sven has quadruple-posted more in this game than you've mentioned JMO. Even better, 11 of those times are in your last 15 posts. 7 of them - almost half - are after I posted my dataset. I count pretty much a single post where you do anything even remotely resembling a case. And to top it off, you even provide this frigging stellar post:

See I pulled up your ISO and it has nothing in there.

well, there's nothing in mine, either, what makes an aptil vote have any special merit?

given my crummy play so far, I'm guessing my increasingly more "default"-ish jmo scumread is completely wrong too...

You haven't been doing

anything

. Yeah, sure, you've been standing on the bleachers occasionally shouting "hey, like, uhm, should we vote for jmo", but honestly? D'you

really

see us clapping our greasy little hands and going "Oooh, that's so town"? If anything, it reads as an attempt to artificially ensure consistency, to make sure that you don't seem so indecisive that we'd nail you for

that

. I mean, holy hell, what do you

expect

to gain from saying "I've been calling Jmo scum since Day 1". A "Congratulations; your reads haven't evolved at all" medal?

Get real. Get posting.

[Maenara]

Screw formatting.

[Maenara]

How does jmo+(JS/Aptil) for mafia, AH for SK sound to the rest of y'all?

[Maenara]

Change your list to JMO AH mafia, JS for SK, and I could go for that. I still see DJ as possible scum though.

JMO/AH would be some

really

weird bussing.

[Maenara]

Okay, frig this with a vegetable brush.

Just bloody vote JMO already. It's not like any other freaking lynch is gonna happen.

@Penguin, if you're not gonna get around to finishing the commentary up, like, today, could you at least throw a vote at someone?

[Maenara]

Whoop whoop. There you go, Pengu.

[Maenara]

p-edit: I'm betting on you and mae. if one of you is sk/scum, then I'm giving up.

mae: where you at?

It's half past six in the bloody morning. At the time of your posting, it was 4 AM.

At any rate, I mostly want to know why your tone has totally changed. Yeah, fair enough, up the creek without a paddle if we end up in a kingmaker tomorrow, but occupational hazards and whatnot. You've been aggressive until today; why are you suddenly going for morose/hopeless/whatever? It's a big change. Not gonna believe it's coincidental.

And yeah, we bloody well need to hear from the lurkers now. Antihero, Aptil, ArcAngel, Jacob; it's time to be active. There's no way we can lynch anyone not amongst these; leaving four lurkers out of six people is absolutely preposterous.

More input at a saner time of day.

[Maenara]

Aptil: Tell me why we shouldn't lynch Jacob.

[Maenara]

I mean, by all means, if we could lynch all of you today, I would; that'd leave only me, Johnson and Penguin alive, which would probably be a town win. Alas, we only have a single lynch. And the way I see it, right now, you and Jacob are mafia together, which makes you a less preferable lynch than the SK, but on the other hand, you're also a safer bet. If we lynch either of you, I'm betting that the SK will shoot the other person, if only to avoid the risk of getting killed in return. Might even finish up the game for us with a crosskill.

Or you could tell me why we shouldn't lynch him. Your move.

Incidentally,

@MOD, if a SK and a Mafioso endgame one another, is it a Mafia win, Serial Killer win, or tie?

[Maenara]

That's a pretty audacious statement.

Which two of me, Johnson and Penguin are scum? And of those two and AH, who's the SK?

[Maenara]

Oh, hell yes.

Don's the SK.

VOTE: don_johnson.

Swap me for ArcAngel, and I'm all aboard your reads list, Aptil.

[Maenara]

Tone completely different from yesterday, way too many comments on night kill interaction between mafia and SK, far too happy to go along with leashing jmo yesterday.

Pretty damn sure he was expecting jmo to survive, follow the directions of town's second vote, thus further implicating jmo (Of course, he was one of the most audible townies, so he'd be mostly in control of the vote anyhow, and would even get to get other people's feedback on it; he did want to hit mafia, after all). He stabbed Titus, expecting the mafia to do the sensible thing and kill the confirmed townie (just listen to his constant frustration with the "incompetence" of the mafia team - not a very appropriate sentiment for a townie, methinks?), ignoring the fact that to the rest of us, Penguin isn't 100% confirmed. He was hella suspicious of Titus yesterday, too, which fits perfectly with the fact that he stabbed her; in this meta, nightkilling the person you were gunning for during the day has become so very un-scummy that it's gone full circle and become the thing for scum to do, once more.

Truth be told, I was suspicious yesterday, too. So why was I so adamant that we lynch jmo? Well, duh, he was just as bad (seriously, begging for a lynch, just freaking read his posts), and it wasn't as if I was

sure

about DJ. This way, the only risk we took was losing jmo, and frankly, not a big loss. And most of the people suspicious of DJ, Titus (the apparent leader of the wagon, who'd've thunk) aside, seem to have survived.

Yep, we be nailing this one.

[Maenara]

What
No JOhnson what no don't
/

[Maenara]

What no fuck seriously

Okay, AH is 100% scum

[Maenara]

Okay seriously everyone freaking use this here Twilight to avoid a clusterfuck tomorrow, no Williams-esque "I'm contemplating thinking about thinking" bullshit, just go right ahead and post everything.

Assuming DJ town now 'cause otherwise his self-vote was on the verge of playing against win-condition. I should've moved my vote but I took a minute to think it over and by then it was hammered.

Okay, Aptil town, AH guaranteed scum, Penguin very unlikely scum, AA9 and JS total unknowns, what else do we know?

[Maenara]

You... could've tried? I mean, come on, if you're town, you're the only person you know for sure to be confirmed town. You are, from your own point of view, literally the worst lynch. Fair enough, you outed a scum in the process, but that was bordering on dumb luck.

Okay, so assuming that the other faction kills AH, and AH kills someone from the other faction, we'll be set, but holy hell, this was just wrong. I thought you sounded fake hopeless from the start of the day, I didn't think you'd actually commit suicide by scum.

[Maenara]

That's a fair point.

You'll have to excuse me for not caring to muse too loudly about the identity of this person today, for reason I'm sure you can guess if you think about it.

[Maenara]

Also hypothetical in case Johnson WTFlips mafia, AH will probably be the SK and I have no idea who DJ's partner would be.

[Maenara]

Actually if we end up with 2/1/1 tomorrow, we do want to quick-no-lynch, for max chance of confusion-induced crosskill.

P-EDIT: Ah, and ArcAngel still hasn't read the thread. Lovely.

[Maenara]

Nobody tell her, I want to see her figure it out for herself.

[Maenara]

Mae's play was douchey from town pov.

Yeah well screw you too; he needed the checking, and I didn't exactly expect him to bring it to L-1

himself

, much less have it hammered less than a day in.

[Maenara]

Like it went through a freaking hour after the first vote and I was in the middle of unvoting when the hammer fell, you can go douche yourself if you feel the need to complain about me putting on more pressure than freaking ArcAngel could manage.

Though I'll apologize for being on the same wagon as ArcAngel in general, that should never ever happen.

[Maenara]

I don't believe for a minute that both ArcAngel

and

JacobSavage would be scum. Yeah, sure, it's been said a lot of times that some of the early kills were questionable at best, but they've still had a connection to the in-game events, which can only have been achieved by actually following this game, and it's all too clear that neither of the two are actually doing that. As for you still being alive, I'm going for the cop-out and calling it WIFOM. Yeah, sure, it's overrated as a concept, but leaving you alive in this situation can hardly be called anything

but

. Besides, if they were interested in creating a town environment wherein Antihero was lynched as quickly as possible, why would they kill

Aptil

of all people?

[Maenara]

That there is

so

weak.

No, I'm not talking about JS and AA9 dropping out. That's about par for the course.

But seriously. You're not even bothering to defend yourself, are you? You're handily ignoring my post immediately below Penguin's, wherein I point out that AA9/JS makes

absolutely no sense

. Why? Because you know that means you have to pair me up with either of those two, and as they haven't done anything at all, and are hence impossible to tell the difference between, the only "townie" thing to do, if you weren't scum, would be to lynch me. Unfortunately, you have no chance in hell of getting that through, so you waffle instead.

Why don't you just self-vote too, and get it over with?

[Maenara]

So while we're waiting for the Day 7 page 98 lylo double replacements (freaking seriously?), let's commence the joyous task of examining two posters, the respective posts of each of whom total less than 3% of the game, whose styles are more or less identical in their complete absence of

everything

, who basically never mentioned each other, the flipped scum or Antihero, and deciding which one is more likely to be scum. Because I'm willing to bet absolutely everything that one of us is not alive tomorrow, and both of those two are.

[Maenara]

No you really freaking don't get to do that.

P

ost,

R

eplace or

D

ie.

>

[Maenara]

Yes, yes, bus your buddy so we won't suspect him once we're done lynching you, good job.

[Maenara]

So I just re-read the first fifty pages for lack of better things to do, and I'd totally forgotten that I had a complete towncrush on BrianSkies, so yeah, AH/JS are scum.

[Maenara]

Get freaking in here already. You don't even have to read, just do as we tell you to. We can't lynch AH without at least one of you, and we're probably not going to have much luck convincing AH to lynch his scumbuddy either.

[Maenara]

Take your time, it's not you we're waiting for. Well, your opinion is important, because duh, confTown (albeit with due consideration given to the fact that we've both been life alive, presumably For Reasons), but given that we need three votes to lynch, and I'm pretty sure you

will

be around, eventually, and I'm not really fond of the idea of letting AH decide the lynch, it's sorta ArcAngel I want to be around.

[Maenara]

Right. So what I could do now is to vote for Antihero. Penguin would no doubt agree, and then ArcAngel would come in and hammer without a word. Then we'd be on to the last day, and either me or Penguin would be dead, and the other person would have to figure out which of ArcAngel and JS is scum (hint: It's JS). That's the inevitable destination. But I'm not gonna do that. D'you know why? Because this, right here, is why lurkers are atrocious. Because there are limits to which I do not appreciate being pushed.

ArcAngel9.

JacobSavage.

I loathe your playstyles as presented here. One of you is mafia, and to that person, I suppose, an uncomfortable kudos for having kept this going for so long. But

fucking hell

the other person; what do you even think you're doing? You're not posting. At all. You know that your vote is vital to town, and that with 99.99999% probability, you will be left alive tomorrow. But you're not reading. You're not posting. You're doing bugger all, and you don't even have the guts to replace out.

That's

low

.

I'm not going to place a vote until at least one of the above people have written a post of at least three paragraphs, of whatever length. And if the deadline approaches and only one of them has, then I'll bloody well vote for the other. Yeah, at this point, I'm fairly certain it's AH/JS, but that's based

solely

off BrianSkies, before he replaced out. If it wasn't for him, AH/JS and AH/AA would look identical.

You're not playing to your win conditions. You're not even playing against them. You're just not playing at all.

Screw you.

Yeah, it's not always easy, trying to be active. Hell, I know that I have a tendency to lurk, and I've done my bloody best not to, in this game. It's been confusing, at times, with twenty players, and replacements, and weird-ass cop gambits. It's been tempting to just become the local town drunk of WIFOM-land, swilling the cheap rosé of doubt and chugging the delicious champagne of investigation immunity - hell yeah, just get another drink in, and screw contributing to town; it's not like we can know for sure either way! But I haven't that, have I? Nor has Penguin. Nor have most of the other dead people. Hell, I was on Aptil's arse for most of the game, and he bloody contributed. But you two?



...

[Maenara]

I have already provided reasoning for that. Which they - and, for that matter, you - might find, were they to actually

read

the thread.

[Maenara]

Fuck you so much.

VOTE: JacobSavage

[Maenara]

Even if he wasn't scum, they couldn't lynch him. The pairing would have to be Antihero/ArcAngel9, and with ArcAngel's absence (I'm sorry about your loss), there's no way in hell Antihero will try for an extended quickhammer. Frankly, there wasn't any chance in the first place, what with their infrequent posting - I'm pretty sold on JS being scum, but even if it was AA, a solid part of their low post count is genuine, so trying quickhammer would be really dumbass on their part. Hell, that's half the reason I dared vote in the first place.

That, and, y'know, we've stalled. Completely.

[Maenara]

Yeah. Pretty sure he said once that he was way more active as town than as scum, too, but I don't recall where, and I'm not about to dig through four years of posts to find it.

[Maenara]

Nobody is V/LA anymore. Nobody has an excuse. Just... post, damnit.

[Maenara]

We could, but I want to see which of them is willing to make a non-hammer vote. Besides, we can't lynch him until one of them votes for him.

[Maenara]

Freaking finally.

VOTE: Antihero.

L-1, hammer pl0x.

[Maenara]

w00t.

[Maenara]

I

hate

you.

[Maenara]

VOTE: JacobSavage

Well this is just fucking awful.

[Maenara]

Wny awful? You know exactly who scum is if you're town, which is 100% better than the alternative.

Because if I was dead, I could sit back and relax, and if you were dead instead, it'd be on me, true, but at least I'd get the deciding vote as soon as the other two cross-voted (No, I wasn't planning on voting for Jacob, having him cross-vote me, and then gamble on ArcAngel not being an idiot. I'm not that masochist). Being on the defensive in LyLo is freaking awful.

[Maenara]

Ugh, I don't s'pose I could, like, just guilt-trip you into voting for him

now

, instead of waiting until, like, freaking monday before we even get the next one-liner?

[Maenara]

Everything either of us says is shady, duh. It's 2nd LyLo, and you're drifting steadily into WIFOM-land.

That aside for now, specific requests?

[Maenara]

ETA so I don't end up F5ing this as often as my Tumblr?

[Maenara]

That was less than 24 hours, yes.

[Maenara]

Didn't get around to wrapping up this thing before we wrapped up 2013. Eh.

And what you're trying to get at, JS, is absolute bull. It's not even funny; I was scum with you like a month ago, and this is exactly the kind of thing you were talking about in our quicktopic. Yes, I had Antihero as a suspect and didn't vote for him, big bloody surprise. When exactly are you trying to get at? You mention both "the first 200 posts" and the last day here, which are vastly different scenarios. For the longest time, I didn't vote for him because, guess what,

there were better suspects with better traction

. I'm not sure if you noticed, but half this bloody game has been spent going "Hey, guys? Could we maybe, like, vote for someone? Like, the

same

person, maybe?" and being screwed up by whacky cop gambits. And as for the late game, what did you honestly think I was going to do? Let you - or AA9, there frankly wasn't much difference in your behaviour - cruise by while Penguin and I brought AA to L-1? Hell, he could've self-hammered, and we'd be none the wiser as to the two of you. In case you didn't think this through, the expected situation for today would be you, AA9 and me as the leftovers, with the confTown being dead, and yeah, big surprise, I wanted to gather information before that happened. The alternative situation would have been voting for you because "Well, Brian Skies played pretty well", and yeah, it turns out that would've been the right choice, but it's kind of an atrocious thing to base a LyLo vote upon.

So yeah. I didn't vote Antihero. You're absolutely right.

What's your excuse for this game?

- 2014 out.

[Maenara]

...

Apologies for lack of breaks in paragraph.

Another night, perhaps.

- 2014 out. Again.

[Maenara]

so unimpressed

but so in awe

♪ ♫ ♪

such a saint

but such a whore

♪ ♫ ♪

so self-aware

so full of shit

♪ ♫ ♪

so indecisive

so adamant

...

I'm contemplating thinking about thinking

it's overrated

just get another drink in

Watch me come undone,

They're selling razor-blades and mirrors in the street

(Come Undone)

I pray, that when I'm coming down, you'll be asleep

(Come Undone)

If I ever hurt you, your revenge would be so sweet

Because

I'm scum!

And... I'm your... son?



I come undone.

[Maenara]

I've been waiting

so

long to post that song.

Thanks for saving my New Years.

[Maenara]

Seriously, though, this

is

why we need to lynch lurkers. It was incredibly frustrating to play against as scum, true, but it was also our ticket to victory.

[Maenara]

Oh gods, our night actions were terrible, and I had absolutely no reads.

This is why I like to play Mafia; if I'd been Town, I'd've been so dead. Much easier to scumhunt when you already know who you want to target ^_^

[Maenara]

Ya all should have killed Dashie sooner though

Killing the capable town-read people who suspect you? Heresy.

Since we're doing the feedback thing, what could I have done better, y'all? I realize we won, but frankly, that was as much a case of dumb luck with replacements and lurkers as anything.

And the fact that DJ didn't kill me. Grateful, if bemused, about that.

[Maenara]

@Wake:

Naw, I meant, why he didn't shoot me one of the nights. The gambit made a weird kind of sense, I guess, looking at it in retrospect. I was totally falling for it; it was just that Antihero saved us >_>

As for being mean... Eh, I think the tone was good enough. My alternate tends toward the slightly overly formal, and frankly, people tend to react less than positively to that. Abrasiveness gets you taken somewhat seriously, as people seem to expect you to know what you're doing based upon it, and it also serves well to repel some suspicion. Soft cases (here defined as the ones that just involve, y'know, soft tells) stick better to smooth people than abrasive ones, ironically; if you suspect a 'mean' player based on such things, people tend to just assume you're doing it because you're mad at them, and hence they take it as a town vs. town fight. Really, at my current skill level (i.e. not very good, particularly as town), I tend to aim for this as either alignment - it keeps me alive longer and doesn't really hurt anyone in itself

@JacobSavage:

You could've played the game. Really, I have no respect for what you did. You should've replaced out on Day 1.

[Maenara]

Oh gods no, we'd tear each other's head off.

[Maenara]

gg Maenara, I guess the best plant won. I'm curious:

FOS: Maenara

Rainbow, am I BP?

There aren't really any other people starting with a 'B' who have a 'P' in their names, now are there?

In other news Skull and Don are still both town, and Lora still needs to die. They've been way too cautiously probing the situation, trying to avoid attention intentionally.

I think this post came as a logical consequence of Rainbowdash's post:

Manera (until I looked at OP thought he replaced HGH) isn't the worst lynch ever (the reaction to aptil is horrible, TNE wasn't too bad but that just really sets off an alarm), but I would rather lynch stronger scum reads who look like scum with them (elle and Aero)

saying she thought she (Maenera) was HGH's replacement. Therefore she (Maenera) figured RD didn't notice me because of lack of attentionwhoring on my part, so she uses it as an additional reason (along with that incantation) for her vote and to shift attention from her to me.
Panic much?

Did this phase you or was it too out there?

I could've tunneled you further but I felt like nobody got what I was saying anyway.

Naw, these posts just genuinely confused me. Wasn't sure what you were trying to get at. I'd totally forgotten who I'd replaced as well, so what RBD said didn't really bother me much, and you were just as good a target as any at the time.

[Maenara]

What was quite funny about this as well was I had forgotten who my fellow scum were, so I decided to play it without looking again. So my reads were genuine as if played from a town perspective. It was only right at the end I looked and was gobsmacked to find Mae on my team.

That's, uhm, very not allowed.

[Maenara]

Just looked at the thread...scum thought I was the sk .

I'm sorry!

Like I said, I really do suck at reads, and at night actions. Fortunately, this gives me the small advantage of making it really hard for town to figure out my motivation