Open 545: Nothing to Hide (Game over!! MAFIA WINS!!!)

[T S O]

Hey y'all, I'm back from my adventures in another dimension!

Vote: Sakura Hana

I'm a strong believer in RVS.

[T S O]

Yeah.

Unvote
Vote: Tlachta C

This isn't RVS.

[T S O]

Yeah.

Unvote
Vote: Tlachta C

This isn't RVS.

TSO has only voted people on the BJC wagon. if BJC flips scum, TSO might be due for a little questioning.

Rather than ask me why I'm voting Tlachta, you're soft pushing. Why?

[T S O]

Yeah.

Unvote
Vote: Tlachta C

This isn't RVS.

TSO has only voted people on the BJC wagon. if BJC flips scum, TSO might be due for a little questioning.

Rather than ask me why I'm voting Tlachta, you're soft pushing. Why?

You should answer this, flare.

Waiting on Bjc to come in and do something.

@Mod: could we get a replacement for Bahkieh?

What do you think of Kaiveren?

[T S O]

ummmmm, that was lynch, I believe.

Quickhammer, much? with no reason other than YOLO?

If he flips town, get ready for some questioning.

But still, i'm interested to see what his alignment was.

pleasebescumpleasebescumpleasebescum

This reads scum as fuck, vonflare. It comes off strongly as you knowing bjk's alignment pre-flip.

[T S O]

town - flare, sakura, TSO
unknown - tatchla (replaced) fitz, everyone else I guess
scum - not sure yet, though several appear scummy at times.. that's to be expected.

I feel like my wagon was pretty bullshitty, I mean half my posts were jokes/fluff but oh well.

Yeah, it was pretty bullshit.

Eh, hes not that scummy. he just hammered. I mean, someone had to.

No, they didn't have to hammer him. What are you talking about?

[T S O]

Desp, I'm not quite sure why you did that, because you're obviously not confident in bjc-scum.

Jesus.

[T S O]

We are

4 days

into a

3 week

D1, people. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. We have plenty of time to discuss. Plenty of time to generate more content. Plenty of time to involve

everyone

.

[T S O]

If he flips town, get ready for some questioning.

This is you setting up an attack on the back of a Town flip.

But still, i'm interested to see what his alignment was.

pleasebescumpleasebescumpleasebescum

Then you added this on at the end to make it seem like you weren't sure what he'd flip, but it looks forced and fake.

[T S O]

Nicely said, bjc.

[T S O]

You're fucking dead, I can hardly buddy you.

[T S O]

Yeah, but I'm not.

It sounds simplistic as fuck, but the difference is you can see my accusation makes sense.

[T S O]

I am flabbergasted.

Vonflare is Town.

[T S O]

shit's been fucked up, yo.

as of now I have been awake for avour 22-23 hours and are thus in nos hape to play Mafia

can i just leave a vote on someone and count on not being speedlynched by tomorrow?

VOTE: anorway

thanks

I don't particularly see why this vote was placed, I'll admit.

[T S O]

Desp -could- be scum, but I doubt it. I don't think I've ever seen scum nonchalantly hammer their partner like that. He can be Town.

[T S O]

Desp, I recall you making a post where you said Matias was exempt from suspicion for not posting in twilight.

I know Matias is dead, but are we allowed to know why you felt he was exempt, or were you just baiting scum to kill him? If it's ongoing or whatever, I dig it.

[T S O]

ABR, this is gonna sound incredibly fanboyish and queer, but are you going to be using any NLP techniques this game?

[T S O]

[quote="In post 185, 4nxi3ty"

It could also be town getting increasingly fed up with scum not engaging with them

you're right, this could be true, we'll see[/quote]

No fight at all?

[T S O]

fucking quote tags.

[T S O]

I'll get to work, toolenduso my son.

[T S O]

I'll make the post on my computer and not my iPad but I'm really weirded out by Anxiety's ISO.

[T S O]

Guys, I'm incredibly sorry, but I do 't have computer access tonight.

I haven't given up on you guys - rest assured it's coming.

[T S O]

Why tool?

[T S O]

What is your read on me?

[T S O]

On one hand I really want to ask you to explain your read but there's this little piece of me that's telling me not to push my luck.

Humbug,

[T S O]

TSO, post content and vote.

Yessir.

[T S O]

speed of the bjc lynch suggests at least one scum on the wagon (I wouldn't be surprised if both were).

vonflare was towniest on the wagon

If he flips town, get ready for some questioning.

This is you setting up an attack on the back of a Town flip.

TSO sounds like town unaware of what bjc will flip.

based on Tlatcha's hop this where I'd start

vote: toolenduso

I agree with the majority of this, actually, a notable exception being the tool vote.

idk, tool hasn't posted yet. Hasn't flipped yet either. Be kind of silly of me to buddyspeculate on a read I just started forming.

But you voted tool, so presumably your read is pretty strongly formed? I don't understand.

hmm

Unvote: tool

16-18 wagon grows on anorway, bjc reaction: "Well, I don't like it. So stop it." Imma go ahead and guess bjc wouldn't make that comment about a buddy.

Although I think I agree with you re: bjc, you're still giving no explanation for your tool stance and change. And it's certainly not transparent enough to ignore.

vote:TvK

sheeping this for now, causes I like the logic (exactly what I have done as scum before).

Spoiler: may have found another scum in fitz

Perhaps you could try to actually answer questions posed to you without being coy or evasive.  As someone already alluded to iirc ...maybe posting fluff isn't in the best interest of town.
 
So why did you care about a wagon anorway but not on me?  Are some page one wagons better than others?

^ I noticed this. Coupled with the fact he again ignored my question posed 6 minutes before his last post...I am very close to putting him at L-1.

VOTE: bjc

He's not doing anything. Useless coasting. Ignoring my questions.

That's

L-1.

possible scum coaching followed by a bus when buddy doesn't listen to advice

Your havingfitz case seems rather full of holes, to tell the truth. But never mind that.

Could you clarify exactly what you saw about TvK which made you vote him? On a re-read, it's unclear.

thoughts on tool, TvK?

Something strikes me as off about you asking your current #1 scumread on how they feel about your former #1 scumread.

It could also be town getting increasingly fed up with scum not engaging with them

you're right, this could be true, we'll see

Please, please, try some conviction in your reads so I can read you.

Why are you asking TvK for his thoughts on Tool when they should be pretty fucking clear at this point?

actually TvK never gave any thoughts on tool, they were all about tlachta. And I think tool's posting was very towny, more than enough to change my mind, so I want to see how his view of them is.

Well, at least you offered some reasoning. I was starting to cry tears of blood.

What about tool's posting changed your compass from scum to town?

Why would I when I am not even sure I am correct?

I'll wait til majiffy posts more, and others chime in on the TvK and Kaiveran wagons, before making a decision.

But ...you're voting TvK. Usually when you do that, you should be the one convcing others to vote him. As you're voting him for a reason, right? Right? ...Right?

[T S O]

Don't even ask me to reach a conclusion.

[T S O]

alright, I see the albert vote isn't going anywhere.

VOTE: tool

mostly because sakura (who seems quite pro-town) it voting him. plus his overconfidence in the power of meta.

Vonflare, him being confident on meta is a playstyle tell. You may think it's wrong (I agree with you, btw) but it's not scummy in the least.

As for Sakura, even she's openly questioning why you're sheeping her, as she's voting solely on gut.

[T S O]

This is it, I guess.

TvK, if you're Town, what happened to Desp when you hid behind him?

[T S O]

This is it, I guess.

TvK, if you're Town, what happened to Desp when you hid behind him?

do you even know how a hider works

not particularly, no

[T S O]

oooh.

[T S O]

Albert, you really think TvK would fake a result on his own partner at L-1?

I don't.

[T S O]

TvK flips scum, TSO, I want you to place a vote right in between Desperado's eyes tomorrow. Are you solid on this?

Somewhat.

[T S O]

I think I need to re-read this game, since I'm confused as hell, but some stuff is definitely bothering me.

[T S O]

Just dropping in to say that Desperado is scummy as hell.

why give up on this?

unvote, vote:TvK

Oh yeah, you have a point there.

Unvote
Vote: TvK

I did agree with his case on you, I wanted to see what happened with my vote on tool while i was being lazy and people were townreading me for no reason.

PEd. Guess this is L-1

This isn't right.

[T S O]

I don't think I'm scumreading ABR because, although I've seen him as scum, his blatant fist-pumping bromance with Salmonella is almost too scummy to be scum. I don't think it's possible he's so confident in himself that after pushing a claimed PR lynch all by himself and forcing SD to hammer, he would actually give Salmonella a one-up and then go on to talk with me about what we're doing when TvK flips scum. He's either exceptionally good at scum or he's Town.

tool is the only one here who I'm confident on being Town. Jesus.

[T S O]

Sakura, are you fucking serious?

[T S O]

wait what?

you knew there was a Hider in the game?

aside from me wanting to pulverize you for somehow missing the most pivotal moment in the game so far, how do you know that?

[T S O]

tool, talk to me, because

"You're the only one that's making sense to me.
When I close my eyes, you're the one, I see.
There's no other way I could ever be ... Without you babe."

CALVIN HARRIS RAWR

[T S O]

err okay

I think I need to start looking at this set-up thing

[T S O]

so we have at least 2 H's

[T S O]

is it safe to assume we don't have a Serial Killer? I think it is.

[T S O]

this fucking set-up is so vague!

[T S O]

tool, what do you think of Anxiety?

[T S O]

I'm gonna have to force myself to ISO Kaiveren and I'm absolutely dreading it.

[T S O]

wait is vonflare playing?

He can be Town too, I guess.

[T S O]

{TSO, tool, vonflare, ABR} is my current townbloc, tentatively.

Leaving {Sakura, fitz, Kaiv, SD + anx}.

[T S O]

2 Scum scenario: ML today puts it at 2-6, nk is 2-5, ml is 2-4, nk is 2-3, then LyLo, giving us 2 mislynches.

1 scum scenario: ML today puts it at 1-8, nk is 1-7, ml is 1-6, nk is 1-5, ml is 1-4, nk is 1-3, then MyLo, giving us 3 mislynches and then MyLo could turn to LyLo.

This is assuming no missed kills from protection, etc. etc.

[T S O]

5 players I'm not sure of, and I need to sort out Sakura's claim in my head, that's 4.

SOMEONE ELSE POST I'M GOING INSANE

[T S O]

I think I want to hang Anxiety today, because he's never getting NK'd and my paranoia of him is shooting through the fucking roof.

Good night, Vienna.

[T S O]

I haven't commuted yet btw.

If you're telling the truth, putting this out there was a poor idea.

[T S O]

Idk. Do scum have daytalk? If so, her partner could have prepped her, if there's two scum.

Sakura, have you ever played this set-up before? Do not lie.

[T S O]

"Hiding Roles
H = Hider
HH = Hider, 1-Shot Commuter
HHH = Hider, 1-Shot Commuter, 1-Shot Commuter
HHHH = Hider, 1-Shot Commuter, 1-Shot Commuter, 1-Shot Commuter"

What bothers me is that unless we somehow have 4 H's, she can't be counterclaimed using this, and Commuter is the safest of claims.

[T S O]

I'm not sure. It doesn't damn her any more, definitely not. But I'm loath to trust claims unless we were to massclaim, and even then I think it's possible scum could manipulate their claims, so I'm not sure I'm even pro-massclaiming.

Who invented this set-up? It's practically bastard in its fakeclaim possibilities.

[T S O]

not JK9++ but i have played C9++ and C9--

Tho in the wiki the sample scum PMs only mention factional communication during the night, so i assume they dont have daychat.

This makes you cleaner.

[T S O]

Kaiveren, can we talk for a bit so I can figure you out? I'm finding it hard as fuck atm.

[T S O]

yay we're back!

[T S O]

Why wouldn't you try to convince anyone?

[T S O]

mmmgh, I have a flu and it's not even funny how badly I'm feeling atm. I'll try, but it could be a while til I'm back.

[T S O]

I don't want to explain. I think his posts are scummy. He's been obviously scummy since Day 1 to me.

I find him incredibly hard to digest. But no-one's really sold me on him actually being scum. He's been wrong, definitely, but so have you ABR.

I'm trying not to offend you, but I'm worried you're so annoyed by misreading multiple players that you've just decided to tunnel in on Kaiveren in the hopes of getting retribution for your past misreads, if that makes sense.

TSO: why are you not voting? what are your scumreads?

Anxiety, I'm starting to come around to him, because I remember having the exact same mentality as scum in the past when I was doomed. Kaiveren feels like a mislynch; it's gut mostly, but I don't see most of his posting as coming from a scum mindset. The aggression he's showing off-the-cuff in #22 is town-motivated, and #117 comes off strongly as him not knowing what bjc's going to flip - indeed, just like me, he saw vonflare's actions as very sketchy in light of a Town flip for bjc.

I feel incredibly demotivated about his wagon. There's no real bite to it, it's just ABR using all his charisma to push it through. Some of the switches, like vonflare's, read like they've been annoyed so much about his wagon they just want him dead and gone.

[T S O]

We have 2 near-confirmed towns (sakura and me)

How is Sakura anywhere -near- confirmed Town?

we have one player not posting very often, lying low (tool)

Tool is posting quite often, and is being pretty opinionated, which is usually a sign of Town.

We have a tunneler (ABR)

What relevance does this have to his alignment?

We have 2 diffused wagons (kaiveran, anx)

Again, I don't understand if this somehow makes them exempt from scrutiny.

and 3 neutral bystanders.

I've made my stance on Anxiety pretty clear, and his down-and-depressed schtick isn't washing with me at all.

Unvote
Vote: Anxiety

I don't even know if I'm currently voting him, but damn it I should be.

[T S O]

@TSO: I never said ANY of those things were "relevant to alignment" or "exempt from scrutiny".

You might not have said it, but you gave the implication that they did. If I was doing a readlist and described ABR as "Canadian" with no further reasoning, it implies that it's alignment relevant. While the example is exaggerated, its truth still holds.

[T S O]

TSO: I was not trying to describe their alignment, I was trying to describe their PLAYSTYLE. Please no not assume that I was trying to portray their alignment.

Oh, I guess that makes sense.

What group do you feel scum typically abode within?

[T S O]

Scum is in Kaiveran, Tool and TSO.

no, no and no.

[T S O]

idrk. starting to lean further and further towards ABR because of his horrific reactions today towards me telling him I think he's wrong on practically everything. I haven't really looked at SD yet. you and tool look like solid enough town, vonflare too apart from his sudden back-off from anxiety. Everyone's pushing Kaiveren, which worries me, so not him, and unlike some people I'm not clearing Sakura whatsoever on a claim and paranoia.

[T S O]

I don't think I'm scumreading ABR because, although I've seen him as scum, his blatant fist-pumping bromance with Salmonella is almost

too scummy to be scum.

This is not and never will be a valid argument. Remember that.

I think it is, Kaiveren.

[T S O]

No, vonflare. Too scummy to be scum is when something looks so bad scum wouldn't do it.

[T S O]

you don't get it, vonflare, it's when they do something so bad that scum just wouldn't do it out of survivalism.

[T S O]

Tool is the scummier of the Ts, but to be honest I don't find that pair very scummy on the whole, even though they're substantially linked.

We are?

Gonna have to do a fitz Iso

fitz comes off quite strongly Town to me.

[T S O]

I'd be more inclined to think of the 2 Tool is more likely to be scum.

Do you think tool is scum?

[T S O]

no you fucking wouldn't, your stance change would be far too forced and you'd be auto-lynched tomorrow.

don't give yourself towncred, it doesn't work.

I am still intrigued by how you will NOT EXPLAIN your scumreads, and you act surprised that I'm scumreading you for it, as if it's an illogical reaction. Hint: it's not.

[T S O]

Why would he bother to keep this charade up at all, tool?

[T S O]

Sakura's claim. Hmm.

[T S O]

this is excellent. come massclaim, her claim's surrounding area could nail a scum somewhere.

[T S O]

Alternatively, all the VT's are dead.

Aegor, work with me here.

[T S O]

If we -are- massclaiming, then it goes without saying that under NO CIRCUMSTANCES are actions claimed. None.

[T S O]

Also, I don't know why you're treating Sakura as conftown.

This could just be me, though.

[T S O]

We've had one claim so far, though.

You can't say nonchalantly "if there are no PR claims" when literally no-one has claimed yet.

[T S O]

Who are you scumreading, Aegor?

[T S O]

I agree vonflare looks really bad atm, but I got a strong feel from him at the end of d1. Do you disagree with this?

Nobody has had the chance to claim yet, so you can't clear Sakura yet.

[T S O]

...explain.

[T S O]

I felt he came off strongly thinking that bjc was Town. I can't find the motivation to do what he did as scum: if it was me, I'd just completely lurk out twilight, whereas he was defending Desperado when everyone was mentioning policy vigging him.

Though the posts you bring up worry me. I'm going to look back over vonflare.

In the meantime, talk to me about Salmonella.

[T S O]

Post #100 - why would he explain to bjc what made him look scum after bjc was noosed?

[T S O]

Spoiler: Scum Roles

TTTTTTT = Mafia Goon, Mafia 1-Shot Bus Driver, Serial Killer
TTTTTT = Mafia Goon, Mafia 1-Shot Bus Driver
TTTTT = Mafia Goon, Mafia 1-Shot Bus Driver, Serial Killer
TTTT = Mafia Goon, Mafia Goon, Mafia JOAT (Roleblock, Ninja Kill, Strongman Kill)
TTT = Mafia Goon, Mafia Goon, Mafia JOAT, Serial Killer
TT = Mafia Goon, Mafia 1-Shot Bus Driver, Mafia JOAT
T = Mafia Goon, Mafia 1-Shot Bus Driver, Mafia JOAT, Serial Killer
0 Ts = Mafia Goon, Mafia 1-Shot Bus Driver, Mafia JOAT

Assuming no SK:

Spoiler: Scum Roles without SK

TTTTTT = Mafia Goon, Mafia 1-Shot Bus Driver
TTTT = Mafia Goon, Mafia Goon, Mafia JOAT (Roleblock, Ninja Kill, Strongman Kill)
TT = Mafia Goon, Mafia 1-Shot Bus Driver, Mafia JOAT
0 Ts = Mafia Goon, Mafia 1-Shot Bus Driver, Mafia JOAT

We know ABR and TvK's flip make the first impossible, so currently we can have:

Spoiler: Viable Scum Roles

TTTT = Mafia Goon, Mafia Goon, Mafia JOAT (Roleblock, Ninja Kill, Strongman Kill)
TT = Mafia Goon, Mafia 1-Shot Bus Driver, Mafia JOAT
0 Ts = Mafia Goon, Mafia 1-Shot Bus Driver, Mafia JOAT

Does this tell us anything? I'm not sure, but I think it's worth posting.

[T S O]

VT.

[T S O]

I have so many problems with vonflare right now. tool's pointed a lot of them out.

[T S O]

1) it was phrased like this:
"{playername} goes nowhere."

Why the fuck were we not told your third role PM was different?

Alive and town:

Von: Tracker
Fitz: Jailkeeper
Aegor: VT

Why are you treating Aegor as confirmed town?

Your horrible set-up manipulation also stinks. You're not confirmed, not near it. You provided no useful results, then changed your claim with no pre-reasoning whatsoever when fitz claimed. I don't even want to think about if fitz is lying right now, but I'm pretty damn sure you are.

[T S O]

ugh.

vote: vonflare

If he flips scum, then tool, Salmonella and I are conftown. We work from there.

pedit: great.

[T S O]

Unfortunately, the rest of us aren't.

SD is scummy, but his scumbuddy is hard. Leaning tool, I guess.

[T S O]

I'd vote tool, but I need to look back over you.

Do tool and SD contain associatives?

[T S O]

fitz?

Vonflare, without a doubt.

I have no regrets on my vote for him. "Oh, it turns out my PM was different!"

[T S O]

Fitz was somewhat believable.

[T S O]

Do you really think we'd be so blatant, tool? Really?

[T S O]

Then who is it?

[T S O]

Do you really think we'd be so blatant, tool? Really?

Um yes, of course I think you’d be that blatant as scum. All you’d need to do is convince one townie to vote and there ya go…

Then who is it?

…that being said, I’ve been to this point in a game before and I messed it up. The lesson I learned last time is you keep your options open for who could be scum. Two out of you, aegor and SD are scum, so my chances are pretty good. If I had to put together a list right now it would go SD, you, aegor.

I’ll take my share of blame for being on the vonflare wagon but god damn did he put town in a bad position. Future note for vonflare and anyone else reading this game in the future:

DON’T SELF-HAMMER AS TOWN.

We need to talk about this game, it seems. Get back here.

PEdit: okay, talk to me tool.

[T S O]

Are you scumreading Aegor/SD?

[T S O]

Sakura, who are you scumreading?

[T S O]

yeah.

You're scumreading Aegor over SD?

[T S O]

Alternatively, all the VT's are dead.

Aegor, work with me here.

k, I have a saved post that I will put up tomorrow (with quotes and stuff).

Massclaim is happening today.

We have the following confirmed:

HHTTTXXXXX
(X Unknown)

I am justifiably assuming no SK. Therefore the following are options:

HH?TTTTTTT
HH???TTTTT
(? PR)

I find it highly unlikely that there are 0 Ts.


Anyway, massclaim should happen so we can narrow down suspects, e.g. clear Sakura. If all town tells the truth, then we will know precisely what setup we are using because there are only 2 Maf left, making it impossible for scum to fake results. This could mean Sakura is conftown.

Popcorn. Havingfitz starts.

This post was in response to your faulty set-up speculation.

[T S O]

and I've been "cagey" about SD all game, apart from LyLo where I said I had no problem voting him?

You're scum, aren't you?

[T S O]

But is it Aegor and tool or Aegor and SD?

[T S O]

And my quote list has several examples of your cagey was toward SD, and that corpus basically exhausts the interaction between you two.

Quote me them, because I couldn't find one meaningful quote and I think you're talking out of your ass.

Are you fucking kidding me? My setup spec was right on point. It was 100%, entirely correct, which you would have known since you are supposedly a VT which means you knew there were at least 4 VTs which means you knew there could not be 7 PRs.

Your set-up speculation? Correct? You were completely fucking wrong! You didn't even know how many players were playing at one stage!

[T S O]

3 Hits:
Aegor
TSO

2 Hits:
SD
tool

Suspects of the ones from the 3 hits:
TSO Suspects SD and Tool
Aegor Suspects SD and TSO

Suspects of the ones from the 2 hits:
SD Suspects Aegor and TSO
tool Suspects Aegor and TSO.

Ironically SD and tool feel more coordianted than Aegor and TSO, as they both have managed to both be going for the exact same 2 people.

This is classic LyLo where both scum are attacking me and one misguided townie's doing it too. There's absolutely nothing I can respond to, yet everyone's calling me scum.

[T S O]

ugh go away.

[T S O]

I know I'm getting mislynched no matter what I fucking do, I've been here before.

[T S O]

What about TSO and Aegor coming right out of the gate today pushing against me, then switching to bussing each other once I pointed out that they have associative tells in their ISOs?

This doesn't make sense, at all. It's an argument which looks good on the surface but has no basis.

The scumteam of Aegor/TSO must have agreed to attack tool straight away in their QT, in order to win LyLo. When the person they were pushing to lynch, tool, pointed out some "associatives" (and I'm using this word in quotations marks for a FUCKING REASON - THEY DON'T EXIST.), instead of continuing to attack tool, we turned on each other because ...?

This is what I don't get. I originally thought SD was fucking confirmed scum and Aegor and tool would be interchangeable, but the only people who've been attacking me and misrepping today are Aegor and tool. I don't understand, but I know I'm fucked over today no matter what I do.

[T S O]

I'd really ask Sakura, even though I know she's hellbent on lynching me, to look at the lack of a concrete ANYTHING against me. It's a smokescreen. There are no associatives, no scumslips, no cases. There's nothing at all.

PEdit: Votes are just a manifestation of intent.

[T S O]

Right, then, time to find out just what you are.

Link me these slips and associatives. Quote them, succintly. I am not searching for what I believe doesn't exist.

[T S O]

I'm getting to this tonight, I promise, but Aegor, I find it incredibly hard to believe that after you were townreading me, re-read and immediately called me scum, I wouldn't presume you were lying. Really.

[T S O]

TSO:

I've seen everyone of you point 2 possible scumspects, gun to your head, if you had to vote right now who would it be (66% chance to catch scum since i'm conf town?)

tool.

[T S O]

T S O,

Vote fitz. Claiming VT and then changing to a PR deserves a lynch, regardless of alignment. Fitz's results are just as non-definitive as vonflare's.

You talk to me like I'm Town.

I will read through this thread today to find out. I am not liking tool's "case" on vonflare at all.

You call tool scum.

[T S O]

First associative tell:

....dafuq? I've yet to fully catch up, but wow.

ABR acts scummier throughout the day, culminating with an awful hammer on Anx, only to be NK'd?

This feels like a total framejob.

This is the first post made the day after ABR got NK'ed. It feels like Kaiveran preemptively saying "I was framed!" before anybody actually threw around suspicion based on Albert's death.

Following the line of logic of scum NK'ing ABR to frame somebody -- how would ABR's death frame somebody? Perhaps because of who ABR suspected? That list was myself, TSO and Kaiveran. So to me this is Kaiveran defending all three people on that list against suspicion based on Albert's death

before anybody has a chance to bring that suspicion up.

This has about three conditions that need to be filled before it's usable as a point. It's a ridiculous post to bring against me. This point assumes Aegor is scum, and points to you being Aegor's partner

100% as much as it points to me.

It requires scum to have killed ABR to frame someone - why? Why didn't they do it an earlier night? Etcetera. I'm not responding to it, and it feels like you're really clutching when you're using an associative tell linking to yourself.

Second associative tell:

I felt he came off strongly thinking that bjc was Town. I can't find the motivation to do what he did as scum: if it was me, I'd just completely lurk out twilight, whereas he was defending Desperado when everyone was mentioning policy vigging him.

Though the posts you bring up worry me. I'm going to look back over vonflare.

In the meantime, talk to me about Salmonella.

You defend vonflare, then go on to say that the posts Aegor just quoted make you worry and say you'll take another look at him. In your next post, you bring up a newfound question connoting suspicion on vonflare. Later, after the massclaim, you become the second vote on vonflare.

To me, the quoted post looks like it could be you letting your partner give you a reason to go for a known mislynch.

Let's start off by saying that you're a fucking hypocrite. Let me remind you that you immediately attacked vonflare for his claim; you made a long-ass case against him and mercilessly pushed him. And you have the gall to call me scum for doing the exact same thing as you? For re-aligning my reads in the case of a claim which looked so scummy it deserved an auto-lynch?

But, whatever. We'll go through this again, so I can point out to other Town players how doubly wrong you are.

I talked to Aegor. Aegor made me realise that my read on vonflare wasn't as strong as I had remembered it to be. I re-read, saw I was wrong and voted vonflare. Point out the scum motivation in this statement, tool.

Possible scumslip:

this is excellent. come massclaim, her claim's surrounding area could nail a scum somewhere.

The scum motivation behind this post would be to warn your partner not to be in "(Sakura's) surrounding area." The town motivation for it I'm not so sure of.

It feels anti-town, because why would you want to put out information that could let scum know where you're looking for scum?

You don't even understand what I was talking about, do you? This isn't a scumslip; this is me trying to warn off scum claiming Commuter because you can't verify the claim. This is practically a townslip.

re: the scum motivation: I would tell or have told my partner in the QT, not blatantly post it in the thread. I have never once coached in a scum game, ever. I am strongly against it.
re: antitown: It's not anti-town, and even if it was, anti-town =/= scum.

@Salmonella and Aegor: You should respond to my cases against you as well.

Wait a minute, you've made a fucking case on everyone?

[T S O]

I am talking to you as a player whose vote I want on fitz. I felt better about you yesterday than today after my re-read of the game. And I did not call tool scum in that post. You need to restrict your inferences to what is said. If I am townreading someone, I will say so. If I am scumreading someone, I will say so.

I need to restrict my inferences to what's being said? You never even hinted you were scumreading me. Once. At all. So I don't accept that since you didn't explicitly state it, it's untrue. Not now, not ever.

[T S O]

Aegor's attack does feel more natural than tool, I guess.

[T S O]

Is there any point me talking to you?

[T S O]

This has about three conditions that need to be filled before it's usable as a point. It's a ridiculous post to bring against me. This point assumes Aegor is scum, and points to you being Aegor's partner

100% as much as it points to me.

It requires scum to have killed ABR to frame someone - why? Why didn't they do it an earlier night? Etcetera. I'm not responding to it, and it feels like you're really clutching when you're using an associative tell linking to yourself.

Yeah, but I know I'm town. I just happened to be on ABR's list. I'm not saying this is like smoking-gun, red-handed-type evidence, but taken with the other associative tell it starts to look like a pattern to me.

So this is an add-on to the bulk of your case, not really part of it, in other words.

Let's start off by saying that you're a fucking hypocrite. Let me remind you that you immediately attacked vonflare for his claim; you made a long-ass case against him and mercilessly pushed him. And you have the gall to call me scum for doing the exact same thing as you? For re-aligning my reads in the case of a claim which looked so scummy it deserved an auto-lynch?

But, whatever. We'll go through this again, so I can point out to other Town players how doubly wrong you are.

I talked to Aegor. Aegor made me realise that my read on vonflare wasn't as strong as I had remembered it to be. I re-read, saw I was wrong and voted vonflare. Point out the scum motivation in this statement, tool.

OK let's be honest here, "mercilessly" is a bit of a hyperbole. Regardless, I see your point about the town explanation for this in terms of listening to Aegor. It helps to balance out my thinking on this point, but I still take it in stride because there is a 66% chance you're scum and I have my first point to think about here too.

But you admit this point is ceded to me, and you admit your first point's an add-on. What gives?

You don't even understand what I was talking about, do you? This isn't a scumslip; this is me trying to warn off scum claiming Commuter because you can't verify the claim. This is practically a townslip.

re: the scum motivation: I would tell or have told my partner in the QT, not blatantly post it in the thread. I have never once coached in a scum game, ever. I am strongly against it.
re: antitown: It's not anti-town, and even if it was, anti-town =/= scum.

I took it differently. I didn't see the town explanation behind it, but now I do. It kinda makes sense, but it's sort of like with my second point -- I can't just let the point go because I have a town explanation to balance out the scum explanation. One of those two explanations is correct and I can't be totally sure which one.

So, really, this is null too.

Wait a minute, you've made a fucking case on everyone?

Yes. I'm paranoid about everyone left except Sakura.

In summary: Maybe my case on you isn't as strong as I thought, but that doesn't necessarily make it wrong. You're not off the hook. I'm going to look at a couple things for SD and Aegor now.

It's not, at all.

[T S O]

Aegor, it's time for you to step up to the plate, because if I don't see a concise thought pattern in your case here, I'll start the voting and be damned if I'm wrong.

[T S O]

My feigned ignorance?

Are you fucking serious?

[T S O]

tool, what's your opinion of Aegor's comment? Opinion on SD?

[T S O]

I ...don't know.

Vote: SalmonellaDreams

There's no support for you, and he has as good a chance of flipping scum as Aegor does.

[T S O]

VOTE: SalmonellaDreams

Don't we all, tool.

[T S O]

tool are you scum?

give it to me straight, I can take it.

[T S O]

PEDIT: N TO THE O, AEGOR.

[T S O]

I think I've lost us the game.

[T S O]

Damn you, Aegor. I would never have suspected a tool-Aegor team.

Though I despise people who troll in twilight, so cease your act of innocence, Aegor. I ain't buyin.

[T S O]

I'm just kidding, it's me and SD. We're third Party Serial Lovers.

PEDIT: No, he's mine. Back off!

[T S O]

fuckfuckfuck

ABORT ABORT

[T S O]

Oh well gg i guess, and ftr i did use my commute last night.

When you made a comment about not using it, it was slightly obvious.

Well, at least I pegged T S O. And tool's play was questionable as well. SD played terribly, though, so I do not feel bad about my vote.

Town was totally incompetent throughout this game.

Everyone was pretty bad, in fairness.

Would you have linked me and tool? I expected one of us to die today.

PEdit: it's indeed 2:07 a.m. tool, and I'm up precisely because of the vague hope I'd find you.

In other words, psychic brainwaves indeed.

[T S O]

it was pretty hard for us, Aegor, we had to run the gauntlet a man down for the entire game.

[T S O]

I'm nearly falling asleep here guys, but it was worth it to nail that hammer. I was frantically reloading to try and find tool and hope he'd see my post.

[T S O]

I think SD was going down at some stage no matter what.

[T S O]

thanks for the game guys! love you tool baby xo

I'll talk about the game from my perspective when I'm coherent tomorrow

[T S O]

tool and I were probably going to bus each other today Sakura, I'm not sure that strategy would hold water.

[T S O]

You were roleblocked, my friend, it's the same.

[T S O]

That massclaim was a clusterfuck.

Fitz,

NEVER DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT EVER AGAIN EVER

.

Uh...you don't know wtf you're talking about. There was nothing wrong with my claims and it had no bearing on the outcome of the game. What DID have a bearing on the outcome of the game was Vonflare self voting when the 5 town PRs had claimed in conjunction with the probably TT configuration of this game. I.e. no fakeclaims meant we should have focused on all the VTs the day vonflare self voted. Sure...we might have voted SD and been wrong but it would have got us to the next day with people who were actually starting to suspect Tool and TSO and SD would have been out of the picture.

So focus your misguided indignation at vonflare or yourself for crappy play

Good game scum.

Interesting set up mod.

I had considered JK'ing TSO instead of Tool. How would the night have ended if I had JK'd TSO?

in response to this btw

[T S O]

also mad props to tool, he is the man and I love him and coincidentally he's also a stronf scum player

[T S O]

that buddying question was gold, bjc, free towncred is always appreciated.

if you're gone down in twilight, the least you can do is help your partners instead of lurking. I hate when people do that.

[T S O]

Thoughts.

My god, I had like 4 posts before Desperado hammered. Like, jesus. Seeing that just sickened me because from experience in Opens, when a scum partner goes down d1 you're in for a hell of a long ride. I got some neat interactions with him at the end, so that was nice, but still.

We killed Matias n1 because Matias is a pretty consistent town player who's usually universally townread. We also didn't want to prevent arguments from happening, and Desperado vs ABR was pretty kool. I think from my limited scum experience, what always kills Town is in-house fighting, and this game was no different.

On that note, I thought our nightkills were inspired. We killed ABR after he'd fucked Town and was onto us, we nailed the fitz kill after tool convinced me Sakura was too risky, we Strongmanned Desp when there was protection on him, etc. etc.

Day 2 I backed off vonflare because by acknowledging him as Town he basically had to call me Town too. Same with Desp, I guess, but Desp was so busy with ABR he never really analysed me. I went after anxiety because I felt he was a pretty viable mislynch in the circumstances.

Then TvK happened and that was poor, poor play. Why would scum fakeclaim a role which confirms Town every night? ABR inducing SD to hammer made me piss myself laughing. Desperado dead n2, roll on d3, roll on anxiety mislynch.

And so forth. I'm pretty sure I've given my opinion on the fiasco which was d4 and d5, but really I don't know how tool and I did it (tool <3)