Open 558: Hope Plus 1 (GAME OVER!)

[awestfie]

Vote: RagnarokCometh

[awestfie]

Nah.

[awestfie]

Nah.

[awestfie]

You are.

[awestfie]

VOTE: Vote awestfie

Because she obviously just claimed scum.... Right?

@awestfie - I coulda swore I was town. Maybe you misread your role pm.

Obviously awest betrayed her partner and now he's despirately trying to avoid them being lynched.


Obvious scum is obvious.

Lmfao. No words.

[awestfie]

Unvote

Got townish vibes.

Vote: awestfie

center of attention. That won't hide that you're scum.

So, you're getting town-vibes from one post that contained nothing but a big joke?

Also, that "that won't hide that you're scum" comment makes me feel like you're 100% confident that I'm scum here. Why are you so sure when we just started page 2? Seems like you're just bullshitting reads.

And don't go ahead and say what I said on day 1 was a scum-tell when it clearly was a joke. Wicked asked me a stupid question, and guess what? I answered with a stupid answer.

[awestfie]

Also, Ragnarok - thoughts on if Armageddon was serious here?

[awestfie]

Unvote

Got townish vibes.

Vote: awestfie

center of attention. That won't hide that you're scum.

...day 1...

Page 1.* (Been a while since I played a game of forum mafia, so if I say day X; I probably mean page X.)

[awestfie]

Also, Ragnarok - thoughts on if Armageddon was serious here?

armegeddon's joke post

Keyword is if.

What would be your read on him here, IF he was serious?

[awestfie]

I'm here people. I'm worried we are going to get a quicklynch today. Holding my vote for now.

That would imply you read the game.

Any reads or thoughts at all?

[awestfie]

Yeah, Ragnarok was just a random vote.

Unvote.

[awestfie]

Alright, I'm here.

I think awestfie is a cop because cops are usually cautious about their votes and awestfie is not voting.

I fail to see how that's a cop-tell. I'm playing cautious purely based on the fact that I want to be sure about my read before voting - plus, there's no real benefit for me to be voting anyone here.

Anyone else here?

[awestfie]

@awestifie-

What are your player reads at the moment?

Eh.

I feel like Egg's town here because he's coming across as someone who is genuinely scum-hunting here; read post 22 & 76. Don't really town-read anyone else, at the moment.

I think there's scum in Thomas and tn. Thomas, I already explained: I felt like his reads were bullshit on post 26; and even after explaining why he had townvibes on Armageddon on post 85; he failed to explain why he said "that won't hide you're scum."

As for tn: He's just giving filler comments and trying to blend in; read post 7, 18, 25 (although not filler, I don't understand the vote here) and 82.

[awestfie]

Anyone else here right now, btw?

[awestfie]

What's making you feel like Shaded's town here?

[awestfie]

Actually, can you explain all your reads from post 86? Since you're here and not much has happened so far, it shouldn't take you too long to explain them.

[awestfie]

@Thomas

- Care to elaborate why you think awestifie is scum?

@awestifie-

What are your player reads at the moment?

Eh.

I feel like Egg's town here because he's coming across as someone who is genuinely scum-hunting here; read post 22 & 76. Don't really town-read anyone else, at the moment.

I think there's scum in Thomas and tn. Thomas, I already explained: I felt like his reads were bullshit on post 26; and even after explaining why he had townvibes on Armageddon on post 85; he failed to explain why he said "that won't hide you're scum."

As for tn: He's just giving filler comments and trying to blend in; read post 7, 18, 25 (although not filler, I don't understand the vote here) and 82.

You don't have a town-tell on RagnarokCometh, considering he's the person who's advocated a Thomas lynch the most? Seems a bit strange since you both share the same itinerary.

I agree about tn, he hasn't contributed much. Same goes for Marcrell.

Nah, I don't have town-read or any read at all on Ragnarok, atm. While I do feel like he has the same logic as I, I don't like post 61.

His logic for going back on Thomas here bothers me when on the same post he points out how anti-town Stabs was.

[awestfie]

To reiterate: I think he's following the same logic as I for scum-reading Thomas. But, that post sort of cancels it out for me; so I think he's null, atm.

[awestfie]

Do you scum-read tn, Ragnarok? Seems like it, but you didn't really voice your read on him at all.

[awestfie]

Awestife - flying under the radar, doesn't seem to be posting much content apart from defence - weak scum.

Ironic.

Anyways, I'm fine with the doc claim; what Stabs did was a genuine attempt to have me night-killed instead of him.

I already had my suspicions that he was macho doctor to be totally honest with the way he was cop hunting. Either Doctor or Mafia, there was just a higher statistical chance of him being mafia (3 Mafia, 2 doctors). Either way it was bad for him to post who he thought the cop was, so it fit for both.

Okay, let's say that I don't give a fuck about your stats (because I really just don't); why did you feel like he was mafia over town for doing what he did? How often do you see scum out their PR-tells to the public on day 1?

[awestfie]

I shall have to look over everything again. Although claiming doctor in this scenario does seem a bit suspicious to my eyes, especially the way he did it. But I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Oh wow, I didn't even read the second paragraph.

So, hold on.. which part of the "way he did it" did you find suspicious?

[awestfie]

It doesn't matter if I keep my vote on stab or not, he will die by tomorrow because the mafia simply won't be able to pass up this opportunity.

Alright.

Vote: tn5421

.

[awestfie]

It doesn't matter if I keep my vote on stab or not, he will die by tomorrow because the mafia simply won't be able to pass up this opportunity.

Alright.

Vote: tn5421

.

Why the vote on tn?

What does tn's posts consist of? (Hint: filler.)

I pointed this out before and I was hoping for a change. But clearly: that's not happening. From what I can see, he's just saying obvious shit as an attempt to try and blend in to the crowd.

[awestfie]

Obvious shit

Oh no! You're trying to discredit my read by making a joke!

I better unvote! Nice.

What are you gonna call me retarded next? Or maybe you'll ask me if I'm okay?

Wait, wait.. maybe, just maybe: you will say HIS name and ARMAGEDDON will break out!

Damn..

[awestfie]

Alright, let's take a look at all of tn's great posts!

Dude, are you ok?

VOTE: Armageddon

Cool.

No. The doc dies for no reason night one then, because they can't be protected. Then the cop becomes macho and dies n2. I don't care if it was said before.

I'm glad you read the roles in this game.

So you're absolutely fucking retarded? Thanks for letting me know early.

I'm not going to disagree with the statement, but; you got really upset over one question

I don't understand how any of this means that I'm treating it too seriously. Except for the part where you literally won't shut the fuck up about something that isn't actually happening.

Same as above, why are you concerned about someone trying to scum hunt to the point where you need to tell him to shut the fuck up? Seems like you're trying to distance yourself.

Fishing and killing a doctor would make the cop become macho.

Niceeeeeeeeeee.

It doesn't matter if I keep my vote on stab or not, he will die by tomorrow because the mafia simply won't be able to pass up this opportunity.

"It doesn't matter if I leave my vote on the one guy we're definitely not lynching today, I promise he will die tomorrow, it's okay if I vote him, guys!"

[awestfie]

Oh, and I excluded your "obvious shit" and "k" comments cause they had more content than anything else you said this game.

[awestfie]

Because none of your 'evidence' was legitimate.

Great post.

[awestfie]

Hi, tn, keeping your vote on probable doc is incredibly bad play. Them being night killed is a heck of a lot different than us wasting our lynch on them.

awestfie, why'd you exclude post #47, post #113 and post #127? They're tn's most contributing statements, and by excluding them you're only hurting your own case.

Great was sarcasm. Three "good" posts doesn't make up for the amount of filler posts he has. I'm not hurting my "case" at all.

[awestfie]

Also, Ragnarok..

So you're absolutely fucking retarded? Thanks for letting me know early.

I'm not going to disagree with the statement, but; you got really upset over one question

I don't understand how any of this means that I'm treating it too seriously. Except for the part where you literally won't shut the fuck up about something that isn't actually happening.

Same as above, why are you concerned about someone trying to scum hunt to the point where you need to tell him to shut the fuck up? Seems like you're trying to distance yourself.

Any thoughts about what I said here, at all? I'm curious about your stance on it.

[awestfie]

Oh, and I excluded your "obvious shit" and "k" comments cause they had more content than anything else you said this game.

You mentioned that you excluded these, and stated that they had more content than the rest of his posts. With the excluded posts recovered this is clearly not the case. I'd like to explain what you were intending to do by making a blanket case like this?

As for the comments above, I disapprove of them almost as much as the rest of their content. I don't think they're particularly alignment specific though.

Re-read my before-the-last post and you'll get your answer again. (Hint: the "great posts" comment was sarcasm (they're actually shit posts!) and his "obvious shit" and "k" comments were clearly attempts to discredit my read on him ("oh, I don't care about your read, you can go fuck off!"); and again, I sarcastically made fun of his posts because he failed to do anything after I pointed out why I thought he was scum.)

It's not a blanket case, he is fillering over and over and pointing out obvious mechanics - which everyone who signed up for this game for should know. And honestly, I don't mind that much when people explain mechanics, but when other people have already explained them and you go ahead and repeat, then yes; I do see it as a scum-tell.

[awestfie]

Also, he's pointing out mechanics like he knows what he's doing - yet, he keeps his vote on the ONE person we aren't lynching today.

Don't see why you're pushing on me for this (probably attempting to get reaction,) but honestly, I don't even know why I'm bothering responding to you. You know how I play and you, out-of-all-people, know I scum-read any sort of filler especially repeated instances of it.

[awestfie]

Actually, I'm curious.

Do you still weakly scum-read tn here or has your read changed, Ragnarok?

[awestfie]

im at L-1???

Nah, you aren't.

Vote: Thomas

.

I'd rather have you lynched now rather than later, considering the fact that by isolating your posts I see nothing but a lack of even trying.

Your initial vote on me over at post 26 which you claimed to be a RVS in post 99 just bothers me. Why would you feel the need to RVS twice? It seemed to me like you took Armageddon's post on the first page (24) seriously and that you tried and jump into what you thought was going to be a wagon.

Post 202, 204 and 208 are all useless; especially 208, you unvoted someone (without giving a reason) to vote someone (without also giving a reason.)

As for your "I'm at L-1?" post.. well, why would you even ask that question instead of defending yourself? I legit can't understand, it has been just over 3 hours since that post and you haven't cared enough to come back and say something to defend yourself.

There's no way you're town here and I'm sorry to the people who wanted to out their reads/thoughts here (Wicked/Ragnarok;) this just needs to be done asap.

[awestfie]

Didn't want to let him claim?

He was at L-1, posted and didn't claim; 3 hours passed and still nothing.

It's fine. If he was a power role (which he isn't) he'd have claimed in his previous post.

[awestfie]

Yeah.

[awestfie]

awest if I flip town who is the scum??

Fairly sure you're flipping scum here, so.

But, since you want to know; I still think tn's scum here, but: that's regardless of if you flip scum or not.

[awestfie]

It's fineeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

[awestfie]

It's fineeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

[awestfie]

No regrets.

[awestfie]

Vote: tn5421

.

Going back to this, never unvoting this time.

[awestfie]

Alternatively, you could vote tn.

[awestfie]

VOTE: awestifie

I want my revenge

Who even is this?

[awestfie]

Tn:
229 and 273: Putting Thomas to L-1 without any stated reason, and then blaming awe for quick-hammering after it became obvious that she will be under pressure for doing that. I think when several people stated suspicions on himself (like when i told i will iso him, and awe voted him), he decided to push the wagon on Thomas.
254: Wow, this post is scummy as hell. Voting somebody that you don't believe to be scum. Gotta be kidding.
301: Refusing to defend himself deliberately, trying to be low-profile. Why would a townie do that?

Awe shouldn't have quickhammered then, I was more interested in information.
Anti-Town is one step away from scum.
Because I fucking feel like it.

+

im at L-1???

Nah, you aren't.

Vote: Thomas

.

I'd rather have you lynched now rather than later, considering the fact that by isolating your posts I see nothing but a lack of even trying.

Your initial vote on me over at post 26 which you claimed to be a RVS in post 99 just bothers me. Why would you feel the need to RVS twice? It seemed to me like you took Armageddon's post on the first page (24) seriously and that you tried and jump into what you thought was going to be a wagon.

Post 202, 204 and 208 are all useless; especially 208, you unvoted someone (without giving a reason) to vote someone (without also giving a reason.)

As for your "I'm at L-1?" post.. well, why would you even ask that question instead of defending yourself? I legit can't understand, it has been just over 3 hours since that post and you haven't cared enough to come back and say something to defend yourself.

There's no way you're town here and I'm sorry to the people who wanted to out their reads/thoughts here (Wicked/Ragnarok;) this just needs to be done asap.

Normally hammer w/o claim would make me mad, but you've got a point that he had the opportunity and didn't take it.

+

My play so far has been bad, I won't contest that.

VOTE: Thomas

This is L-1, done entirely on purpose, I assure you (PPE)

I can agree with the reasoning based on his posts being even shittier than mine.

Don't even have to say anything. You're literally saying it all for me. Thanks.

[awestfie]

Oh, and for the people who've trouble reading.

Tn is seriously contradicting himself.

He calls my action anti-town despite the fact that he openly admitted that he put Thomas at L-1 on purpose. If he didn't want Thomas to be quick-hammered; he would've never put him at L-1. The fact that he's voting me today is incredibly hypocritical considering he pretty much did the same thing as I, except; I had an actual reason behind voting Thomas. Tn's vote looked opportunistic, there really was no scum hunting behind the vote. (Hint: ISO tn, and you'll see what I mean.) He was really just taking advantage at the fact that Thomas was at L-2 and hoped for someone to hammer.

Tn:
229 and 273: Putting Thomas to L-1 without any stated reason, and then blaming awe for quick-hammering after it became obvious that she will be under pressure for doing that. I think when several people stated suspicions on himself (like when i told i will iso him, and awe voted him), he decided to push the wagon on Thomas.
254: Wow, this post is scummy as hell. Voting somebody that you don't believe to be scum. Gotta be kidding.
301: Refusing to defend himself deliberately, trying to be low-profile. Why would a townie do that?

Awe shouldn't have quickhammered then, I was more interested in information.
Anti-Town is one step away from scum.
Because I fucking feel like it.

You were more interested in information, and yet you made no effort to actually get that information from Thomas before the lynch went down, why?

I figured that we had plenty of time so I went afk to do things IRL, when I got back awest had hammered.

Hahahaha. You made absolutely no effort trying to find the scum yesterday, you had plenty of time and all you did is vote opportunistically; if you honestly wanted information, you would've said that you wanted to put Thomas at L-1 (without actually doing it) and asked him to explain his play; which is the total opposite of what you did. That way, he knows that he'll be close to being lynched if he doesn't start giving reads / explaining some of his posts/thoughts, etc.

[awestfie]

Reminder that when I was voting tn yesterday, his only defense was: "none of your evidence is legitimate," rather than try and help me understand his alignment easier. He was only attempting to discredit the read I had on him by saying that I didn't have a case. He made no attempt to explain the things I had said to him on the first day and just quickly moved away from my read on him without saying anything valuable.

[awestfie]

Hahahaha. You made absolutely no effort trying to find the scum yesterday, you had plenty of time and all you did is vote opportunistically; if you honestly wanted information, you would've said that you wanted to put Thomas at L-1 (without actually doing it) and asked him to explain his play; which is the total opposite of what you did. That way, he knows that he'll be close to being lynched if he doesn't start giving reads / explaining some of his posts/thoughts, etc.

Going off this logic, couldn't you have also said that you wanted to hammer Thomas and ask him to explain his play? That would provide even more incentive for him to start giving reads and explaining his posts/thoughts. Instead we got nothing from Thomas and he was mislynched without a claim, unexpectedly.

Except that I did not care for Thomas to explain himself? He had plenty of time to out reads and explain the reasoning behind his passive play. It's not like I made a comment like "explain yourself," where as in tn did; which was completely bullshit, by the way.

Him being at L-1 gave him plenty of incentive to start giving reads, and even then; he still didn't do it.

[awestfie]

And, if you seriously believe my vote is "weird," wicked; you honestly need to re-read my game and you'll see that it's far from that. The fact that you think tn's town is what's "weird" here because tn has failed to do anything even remotely townie this game; and on top of that, when I did try and get him to talk about the things I've scum-read him about all he had to say is one-liners in an attempt to discredit my read on him. There's no possible way you can think this guy's town.

[awestfie]

Or, you could, you know.. just vote tn, since it's like really obvious that he's scum.

[awestfie]

It's not "rushing" the lynch, christ. He very obviously contradicted himself by the actions he had yesterday and the things he wrote today. He's your scum-read, yet; you unvote him because you don't want the day to end quickly with a scum lynched? Doesn't make any sense to me.

[awestfie]

Ragnarok, ISO all of the things I've said today; any thoughts?

[awestfie]

Hahahaha. You made absolutely no effort trying to find the scum yesterday, you had plenty of time and all you did is vote opportunistically; if you honestly wanted information, you would've said that you wanted to put Thomas at L-1 (without actually doing it) and asked him to explain his play; which is the total opposite of what you did. That way, he knows that he'll be close to being lynched if he doesn't start giving reads / explaining some of his posts/thoughts, etc.

Going off this logic, couldn't you have also said that you wanted to hammer Thomas and ask him to explain his play? That would provide even more incentive for him to start giving reads and explaining his posts/thoughts. Instead we got nothing from Thomas and he was mislynched without a claim, unexpectedly.

Except that I did not care for Thomas to explain himself? He had plenty of time to out reads and explain the reasoning behind his passive play. It's not like I made a comment like "explain yourself," where as in tn did; which was completely bullshit, by the way.

Him being at L-1 gave him plenty of incentive to start giving reads, and even then; he still didn't do it.

I was at a job interview when I got put at L-1, when I got home I crashed and didn't wake up until now.

Not all of us have unlimited leisure time to sit around and play mafia, this is a big part of why I'm annoyed at you.

Or, you could, you know.. just vote tn, since it's like really obvious that he's scum.

This is coming from the person that flash-hammers to deny town information.

It's not "rushing" the lynch, christ. He very obviously contradicted himself by the actions he had yesterday and the things he wrote today. He's your scum-read, yet; you unvote him because you don't want the day to end quickly with a scum lynched? Doesn't make any sense to me.

It's because I'm not scum and you probably

know

that.

First response: I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about Thomas, good work though.

Second response: If you really cared, you'd never have put him at L-1.

Third response: I'm 100% sure you're scum, else I wouldn't be voting you. Nor would I be pushing Ragnarok to vote you. He clearly scum-reads you, which he voiced, so the fact that you're saying "it's because I'm not scum" is nothing but stupid.

[awestfie]

You also missed my question, Ragnarok.

[awestfie]

The thing is, now I don't know who the scum on the mislynch was...

Yeah.. me neither..

[awestfie]

Just kidding. tn's scum.

[awestfie]

Awes, do you think all five of us who were on the Thomas lynch before you and Tn are town? Because that seems unlikely to me even if you or tn IS scum.

I don't really care about that. I know for a fact that tn is scum; and that's all that really matters to me. If you seriously think we're both town because we voted last then your logic is incredibly fucking flawed.

I still want Ragnarok to ISO me and give me his thoughts ASAP.

[awestfie]

Tn, would appreciate a role claim here.

Scum.

[awestfie]

Awestfie could be scum heavy bussing, using his strong vote on tn for credit. But he was the same way with Thomas, so there is the possibility he's playing like that this game.

Lmfao. ISO me and quote the posts where I was the "same way with Thomas." I'm curious.

[awestfie]

Also, that had to be one of the most useless-trying-to-be-useful posts I've read in a while. You imply that I might be bussing, or that I might not be, like cool.. thanks, great information.

[awestfie]

Lmfao, I literally just read what tn said and all of it is just attacks to my reads without any sort of explanation behind the things he has said - how surprising.

"I'm pretty sure I've made my point by now." Yeah, except the point that you've made is that you clearly don't want to put any fucking effort in this game, and I'd honestly be really disappointed if you were town here because I've given you plenty of chances yesterday to try and explain yourself (even before the Thomas lynch) and even today you can't even defend yourself when your at L-1.

And yeah, I don't see a point responding to your last post because most of it is you misreading what I said; and honestly, you put absolutely no effort in that post; which again, doesn't surprise me. You talked earlier in the game about how this wasn't your scum meta, right? So, you're saying your scum meta isn't playing like absolute fucking garbage? Like seriously, ISO your own self and fucking tell me how you've been remotely townie.

Now, fuck off with your one liners and your implications that I'm "making up" reads - because, if you seriously believed that my reads were made up, you wouldn't be at L-1; fucking get it through your head that people actually do FoS you and that there is a fucking case on you, so either you go with your stupid "lynch me, I don't care" route, or you play the fucking game you signed up for. Up to you.

[awestfie]

Considering what happened the last time someone was put at L-1, why has Boonskiies's vote not raised all kinds of red flags with anyone else?

Because Awestife is already on the wagon, I am pretty sure tn will flip town. He is playing like a VI.

Lol.

[awestfie]

I'm here, don't prod - have nothing to contribute. I'm also waiting on Kodama's reads at this point just like Ragnarok here; you'd think the hydra would be the one to post the most but apparently not.

Also,

Abf we have another great contribution from awestife.

No idea what "ABF" even means but - my post was about as useful as yours. Your post only implied that because I lynched town once that I'll do it again today - I mean, if you consider that a "great contribution" then all power to you.

[awestfie]

I can hammer, if you so desire. I thought another day of attempted discussion was a good idea. How long until deadline?

Just hammer him, re-read all the things he has said while being at L-1. He gave absolutely no attempt or ANY sort of effort to defend himself and he still won't if the day keeps going on; discussion is great, but I'd rather just see a flip at this point.

[awestfie]

Also, really not enjoying this game right now, some plays are just actively lurking and saying they will out reads and they never actually follow through, I know this is common - but, it feels overly done in this game. This game just feels so dead.

[awestfie]

Also, really not enjoying this game right now, some plays are just actively lurking and saying they will out reads and they never actually follow through, I know this is common - but, it feels overly done in this game. This game just feels so dead.

Players, not plays.

Sorry. Got bored waiting for this lynch. Tomorrow will be better. When we look for tn's buddies

You're fine.

[awestfie]

VOTE: tn5421 Hell, guess this was the inevitable conclusion of today. Tomorrow, I'll be very interested in what Boonskies does tomorrow, and if tn flips town, that will add whole new reads to the game.

He's not flipping town, thanks.

[awestfie]

Sigh.

I isolated Ragnarok's day 2 to see if he attempted to soft or bread-crumb anything; and I can't really see anything other than him possibly having a scum report on Armageddon? But, I think he'd have pushed on him way harder if he did have that report. Regardless, I think it's a good thing to keep in mind for today.

Also, I'm not sorry about the tunnel on tn yesterday; like I said: he gave absolutely no effort at trying to explain any of his plays and failed to do anything. I hate that he flipped town - but it's whatever.

I really want the Kodama hydra to start doing something. It's a hydra, there's two of you, and you two are at the bottom of the post count and are contributing next to nothing - what's the problem?

[awestfie]

Meh, I don't know if I care anymore, to be honest. Game started with a doc claiming for no reason on day 1, proceeding to someone who gave no effort in playing the game that he signed up for, like.. this game is just way too annoying, at this point. You add that up with the fact that some people are barely posting and when they do post; they post absolutely nothing of value and disappear again.

Regardless - I think Shaded might be scum here, this read may be weak; but I've just a decent feeling about it.

While I do think his frustration on day 1 could be genuine (245) - I seriously don't like how he played yesterday because it honestly just doesn't match up with that.

Quickhammering is scummy.
Quickhammering while some old votes were parked on the target, and not all of them made a recent comment is more scummy.
Quickhammering while people told you they will ISO somebody soon to check something is more and more scummy.
Quickhammering before the target claims is uber-hyper-ultra scummy.

VOTE: awestfie

All of these comments are fair - although I could disagree that quick hammering isn't exactly scummy, but; it's fair. Also, I didn't quick hammer before he claimed; he posted after being put at L-1 and had plenty of time to claim.

VOTE: awestfie

Quickhammers are bad, mkay.

My play so far has been bad, I won't contest that.

VOTE: Thomas

This is L-1, done entirely on purpose, I assure you (PPE)

I can agree with the reasoning based on his posts being even shittier than mine.

I'd like this explained. You put him at L-1 which puts it into the position that someone can quickhammer and basically does nothing else, yet you're scumreading awestfie for actually quickhammering?

Also, quickhammering is anti-town, it's not a scumtell. Moreover, I doubt mafia are too eager to do it, so I'd place it - at this point - as null.

On a second thought, you are right. Scum couldn't be that much daring to do the quickhammering. But i still have suspicions that they could have attempted this to benefit from WIFOM. For the time being:
UNVOTE: awestfie

Also i agree that tn's self-conflicting vote needs an explanation.

This post, I really don't like. Especially the "for the time being" comment - it implies that you do want to vote me later as if you're trying to set yourself up to look good for the next days. Also, it really doesn't match up your frustration from post 245 where you were frustrated at me for "quick hammering" and now you're just willing to 180 that read and move on? The switch seems way too sudden to me and I don't see how that one post convinced you not to vote me anymore.

i will reread the whole thread focusing on tn and randommidget. Also i will check marcrell to clarify wickeds question.
ragnarok, kodama, egg and wicked are all strong town reads.
unsure about yankee and arma, they may just happen to be townie lurkers or may turn out to be scum.
awe may go both way, but we should leave her for today imo.

Again, it just seems like you're setting up to get me lynched another day - you don't want to commit to calling me scum nor town, yet you're certain that you'll be voting me later? Doesn't make any sense to me.

Tn:
229 and 273: Putting Thomas to L-1 without any stated reason, and then blaming awe for quick-hammering after it became obvious that she will be under pressure for doing that. I think when several people stated suspicions on himself (like when i told i will iso him, and awe voted him), he decided to push the wagon on Thomas.
254: Wow, this post is scummy as hell. Voting somebody that you don't believe to be scum. Gotta be kidding.
301: Refusing to defend himself deliberately, trying to be low-profile. Why would a townie do that?

Randommidget:
211&223: Over-reaction to Thomas. Not asking for reasons or anything that would help for scumhunting, thus a scum-tell for me.
276: Not reading the thread and thinking aw is at L-1. Weak scum tell, because scum does not need to read the thread, they mostly just need to sheep when needed.
294: Agreeing to wicked's Marcrell case too easily, without doing his own analysis. Looks like sheeping, and that is almost always a scum-tell.

Conclusion:
Both may be scum. I choose tn because his scum-tells are stronger for now.
VOTE: tn5421

While this may sound ironic and it might just be - I'm not gonna ignore this post because I've things to say about it. But, most of the things you've addressed about tn here were already really addressed and this was after I was voting him and outright said I wouldn't unvote him. This just seems like an easy way to vote him and never move on it since you're sure he'll be lynched. Why do I say that? Well, you can see later that you don't seem all that concerned that tn is at L-1 and that he may be quick hammered, yet your frustration on day 1 was because someone was quick hammered - it just doesn't seem to match up. If you were so angry someone was quick hammered on the past day, then why didn't you unvote when you saw tn was at L-1? (Again; read post 245.)

Read the above comments, then read below:

Good, that means i was not hypnotized by awes.

That is

L-1

, isn't it? (

@Mod

votecount pls?)
If somebody thinks of hammering please FOS first to allow tn to respond and claim.

The second comment is fine, but why wouldn't you just unvote?

--

I don't really have anything else to say about your posts after that - I don't find anything particularly townie nor scummy; so no point to say anything about them. Again, my scum-read on you is somewhat weakish but I'd just like to know how come you 180'd your read on me that easily on the start of day 2 and how come you weren't frustrated when tn was put at L-1 relatively early? I do understand you did scum-read him; but the only reason one would get mad for a quick hammer is because of a lack of information we could've gotten by saving the day and that's where your frustration seemed to have come from on day 1, so why wasn't it there on day 2?

[awestfie]

Awes, I thought you were a cop with a guilty. Guess that's my bad for misreading that. I'm ridiculoudly limited access through tomorrow night though. I get up for work in 4 hours and finish up at 11pm. Then I have a three hour drive and full night of sleep, not necessarily in that order. When I can, I'll look back over this game.

\

Yeah, I tried to soft being cop with a guilty on tn, because: if tn did end up flipping scum; scum would most definitely spend their night kill on me and there's a slight chance that doctor might save me (I say slight because, if he thought I was cop, there would be no reason for a doc to be on me) and cop gets a free report. And even if a doc isn't on me, it's still fine because it's one more night where cop doesn't die. That's why I kept repeating that I was "sure" that tn was scum.

Obviously, that didn't work at all - but, I'm not surprised if anyone thought I was cop there because that was my goal.

[awestfie]

Damn awe, i was also so sure that you were cop and had a guilty result on tn. Soft claiming like that was stupid to say the least.
As wicked stated, we are now in a pathetic situation.

And about your concerns about me:

I'd just like to know how come you 180'd your read on me that easily on the start of day 2:

At first i was really mad and frustrated with how you hammered without a claim. My vote on you was just caused by extreme frustration, not by an exact rational analysis. After a thought process and ragna pointed out the same, i thought it would be stupid for scum to do a quickhammering at Day 1 unless they were trying to benefit from a wifom. That was why i unvoted you. I also tried to state that you were not full-cleared (because of that WIFOM possibility), and i had to see more actions from you to decide whether you are scum or not.

how come you weren't frustrated when tn was put at L-1 relatively early:

Why should i get frustrated with someone putting my scum read at L-1? (also it was not that early) My frustration at D1 was about quickhammering, not about being put at L-1. I wanted tn to be put at L-1, and i wanted him to claim. And i warned everyone to give us time to get his claim and defense (and possibly info from other players if any) and not to quickhammer again. I think that is pretty consistent with my D1 behaviour. I really do not see what is concerning you about this.

I will re-iso everyone and post my reads on game as soon as i get some free time. And the same from everyone will be greatly appreciated.

Meh, don't really want to read too much into this right now - am incredibly tired. I'll follow up tomorrow or something.

Just one question, why do you think my soft was stupid? If tn had flipped scum, scum would've hit me and we would've had a safe night without cop dying. I was obviously trying to get NK'd. (Read post 479 for my explanation.) The only bad thing that could've happened is that if tn flipped town then scum definitely knows I'm not cop and they'll just hit outside of me - which is not THAT bad of a situation.

[awestfie]

Still don't think my soft was a bad move, to be honest - but, whatever. Don't really care about it that much, if you guys honestly thought tn was scum purely based on the fact that I soft claimed and not because you re-read him; then that's your own problem and not mine.

VOTE: Armageddon

Feel strongest on pursuing this right now.

The reasons I have him as mafia are non-disputable

and where others have room to defend themselves, he doesn't.

This was Ragnarok's first post of D2.

We feel like there's a good chance this was a result crumb. We're still reading up though.

--tool

No idea how I missed this. I even wasted my own time ISO'ing him and I legit didn't even see that line - only thing I don't really like about it is that he unvoted him later during that day, but; he revoted him later in day 2 and it sort of matches up with him having a guilty report on Armageddon. (He didn't want to soft it to hard, but in the case that he did end up dying, he wanted to leave something.)

It would also make sense that Ragnarok would check Armageddon. Why? Read post 217. Ragnarok would've no reason to check his strongest scum-reads and it'd be better from his point of view to check the weakest one so he can solidify his read on that person.

Vote: Armageddon

[awestfie]

I've nothing to contribute, at the moment, don't prod me.

[awestfie]

Just replace Kodama, don't even bother prodding him - he said he was going to post several times and he never actually followed through; he clearly doesn't want to put any effort in and should just be replaced, at this point.

[awestfie]

@Mod - Are you going to replace Kodama or not? This is getting ridiculous.

[awestfie]

• Shaded
  :
  
  
  Day 1
  
  
  
  • ISO #0 (post 30)
    : RVS. (votes
    randomidget
    )
    
    ISO #1 (post 58)
    : Asks Stabsinthe if he's an alt - don't see why this exactly matters since he'll get that question answered later in the game.
    
    ISO #2 (post 60)
    : Fair point. With this post and the post above; it clearly showed that Stabsinthe and Shaded weren't partners.
    
    ISO #3 (post 63)
    : Matches up with ISO #1. Again, I don't see why this matters all that much; you would have known sooner or later if he was an alt or not just by the way he played.
    
    ISO #4 (post 67)
    : Not much to say here, other than: I do feel like Shaded answered Ragnarok's question by asking another. ("What is the problem with Thomas aside from not posting?")
    
    ISO #5 (post 69)
    : Fluff.
    
    ISO #6 (post 71)
    : I really, really, really have a problem with people repeating stuff that other people have said, especially when it's said in the post right before yours. (Post 70.)
    
    ISO #7 (post 74)
    : I've nothing to say about this.
    
    ISO #8 (post 117)
    : Same as above.
    
    ISO #9 (post 179)
    : Why did you feel the need to point this out? Most people had unvoted him before you even posted that and no one wasn't going to vote him after his doc claim.
    
    ISO #10 (post 215)
    : If anything looked fabricated there; it was randomidget's reaction. Fail to see how this was a "bussing" attempt, honestly. And no, I'm not saying Thomas' day 1 was townie; it was far from that - however, I think your argument of a bus here is flawed. (votes
    Thomas
    )
    
    ISO #11 (post 245)
    : When I initially read this, I shrugged it off. Re-reading it now; it simply looks forced. I honestly don't have to explain why I see this as forced, I think anyone who reads it would see it.
    
    
    • Votes (in order):
      randomidget
      ,
      Thomas
      .
  
  
  
  Day 2
  
  
  
  • ISO #12 (post 270)
    : Matches up with the "frustration" from ISO #11. Also, would like to point out that the logic that I "hammered before a claim" was entirely wrong considering Thomas had plenty of time to claim and even posted after being put at L-1, had he been a PR he would've claimed as soon as he saw himself at L-1, which; guess what? He didn't do. (votes
    awestfie
    )
    
    ISO #13 (post 279)
    : Alright, here we go. If you re-read Shaded's last two isolated posts, you'll see the inconsistency. Shaded, in ISO #11, was overly frustrated at the fact that I hammered and said I was going to feel his breath down my neck; well.. wouldn't you say that ended abruptly? First thing he did on day 2 was vote me and the second thing he did was unvote me. This honestly doesn't match up at all with his frustration from ISO #12 and I really doubt that what Ragnarok said (despite it being right) convinced him that easily. (Read: post 477) (unvotes
    awestfie
    )
    
    ISO #14 (post 280)
    : n/a.
    
    ISO #15 (post 292)
    : Not great, is it? I'm glad you said why you thought those people were the alignment you thought they were; however, why didn't you explain your reasoning? Also, you outed "unsure reads," yet outed a special read for me as in: "we should leave her for today, imo." Leave me for today, why? If you've problem trying to understand which alignment I am, then why wouldn't you try and figure it out right away? Why would you "leave me for later" if you can't read me, surely you'd want to do the opposite? That post just seemed like an attempt to setup a scum-read on me later in the game. (Read: post 477)
    
    ISO #16 (post 306)
    : Shaded's "read" on Marcrell.
    
    ISO #17 (post 307)
    : Shaded's ISO on tn5421. (Read: post 477) (votes
    tn5421
    )
    
    ISO #18 (post 310)
    : n/a.
    
    ISO #19 (post 312)
    : n/a.
    
    ISO #20 (post 358)
    : If Shaded genuinely did read me as cop, then; this definitely matches up.
    He outs that he scum-reads both tn and randomidget in this post
    .
    
    *
    ISO #21 (post 363)
    : The first paragraph seems genuine, honestly. Why? I honestly had Kodama as town on the first day and he definitely did change his behavior after the first day. For the second paragraph, I don't really like. I think the first assumption that Kodama is attempting to protect is a scum-mate is something I honestly don't see and that comment honestly just came out of no where, to be quite honest. Seemed like a subtle way to scum-read Kodama without really committing to it. I think both heads simply lost interest in the game and I don't think the inactivity from them is an alignment tell.
    
    
    • *
      : I honestly still feel like Kodama is town, at this point. (I'll explain this later, I want to focus on Shaded's ISO, first.)
    
    
    ISO #22 (post 367)
    : n/a. (Shaded asks for randomidget's thoughts about tn.)
    
    ISO #23 (post 378)
    : Again, matches up if Shaded did actually think I was cop. If you were concerned, I don't see why you wouldn't just unvote, though.
    
    ISO #24 (post 387)
    : Shaded "pushes" on Marcrell to start giving reads - this may be a weak read but, I don't think Shaded and Marcrell are partners at this point. (Read next post.)
    
    ISO #25 (post 399)
    : Okay, so. If Shaded and Marcrell were partners, I really doubt Shaded would've pushed him to out his reads just to ultimately call them artificial. Shaded criticized the majority of the reads Marcrell gave and complained about them being incomplete. Honestly doubt that if Shaded and Marcrell were to be partners that Shaded would pressure him about that, to be honest.
    
    ISO #26 (post 410)
    : Yes.
    
    ISO #27 (post 426)
    : n/a.
    
    ISO #28 (post 427)
    : Hell, we're still waiting.
    
    ISO #29 (post 428)
    : Again, I don't think they're partners just because of the amount of pushing Shaded is doing towards him. The only way I think they could be partner is if Shaded is disappointed by the way Marcrell is playing and is desperately trying to get him to town-tell; but, I don't think that's the case.
    
    ISO #30 (post 432)
    : n/a.
    
    ISO #31 (post 445)
    : n/a.
    
    ISO #32 (post 447)
    : I'm starting to see a pattern, here. Shaded really does love to push Marcrell and I feel like I need to ISO Marcrell at this point to understand. Don't really have much else to say about this now.
    
    ISO #33 (post 449)
    : Matches up with his cop-read on me, again. He scum-reads randomidget but keeps the vote on tn because he genuinely thinks I am cop. (Doesn't really speak much for alignment though, since scum could easily fake that knowing tn wouldn't flip scum.)
    
    ISO #34 (post 451)
    : It's fine, if you read me as cop. (Which again, means nothing.)
    
    ISO #35 (post 453)
    : Okay. Scrap everything I said about Marcrell/Shaded not being partners, I honestly fail to see where this town-read on Marcrell is even coming from. Shaded never outed a town-read on Marcrell before this, unless I'm missing something? Actually, yeah. I'm not missing anything. Shaded called Marcrell null in post 306 and that was about it.
    
    ISO #36 (post 455)
    : Ugh, it just seems like you're trying to rush the lynch, at this point. You kept pushing on the fact that we had 2 days left and that tn should be hammered; which is fine, but the fact that you decided to repeat it 3 times makes it look like an attempt to just quickly close the day and look good on the next by trying to make it look like you were trying to make sure the day wouldn't end in a no-lynch.
  
  
  
  • • Votes (in order):
      awestfie
      ,
      tn5421
      .
  
  
  
  Day 3
  :
  
  
  • ISO #37 (post 480)
    : Here's where Shaded thought I was softing a cop claim. He also responded to my two initial concern that I pointed out. While I can see that his vote on me could've initially been because of "extreme frustration" I honestly just don't buy it. And honestly, my concern about you for the tn thing was incredibly bad upon re-reading it myself and I was honestly just over-concerned about it and read way too much into it.
    
    ISO #38 (post 482)
    : Really don't have anything to say about this that I didn't already say. I still think my soft was fine and that if you only voted tn because of my soft and not because you genuinely scum-read him then that's your problem and not mine. Tn didn't do anything even remotely townie this game and honestly should've replaced out because of the lack of motivation he had. He didn't even attempt to play the game and I only started soft claiming to be the cop because I was so sure he was scum. I was obviously aiming to get night killed so that the cop could stay alive.
    
    ISO #39 (post 484)
    : n/a.
    
    ISO #40 (post 487)
    : n/a. (V/LA.)
    
    ISO #41 (post 520)
    : Agreeing on the obvious cop guilty and outed some reads (mostly scum) on wicked. Don't really have much to say about these reads right now, would've to read into wicked who I initially thought was town as well. Don't particularly like the "whoever doesn't vote Armageddon will be a scum candidate for me" comment, it just seems overly forced. (votes
    Armageddon
    )
    
    ISO #42 (post 521)
    : n/a.
    
    ISO #43 (post 522)
    : Apparently not.
    
    
    • Votes (in order):
      Armageddon
      .

Conclusion: I think Shaded might actually be scum here.

Don't particularly like how he town-read Marcrell out of no where despite only calling him "null" prior to that. Yes, he did question him quite a bit but, you'd think he'd come to a conclusion with some reasoning before calling him town. Still don't buy his frustration from day 1 for when I hammered Thomas. I'm just getting a lot of scum vibes from him, a lot of the comments I read from him come across as forced to me. I don't particularly want to vote him right now, though. I need to ISO Marcrell, first, because I think it will strengthen my read on Shaded by quite a bit. And honestly, there's no reason for me to vote here since all it promotes is a "quick-lynch."

[awestfie]

I'll try and ISO Marcrell, by tomorrow. No promises, though. Should be a lot shorter than Shaded's ISO since he has a lot less post and, as far as I can remember, a lot less content.

[awestfie]

I'll try and ISO Marcrell, by tomorrow. No promises, though. Should be a lot shorter than Shaded's ISO since he has a lot less post and, as far as I can remember, a lot less content.

Yeah, don't have time for this right now, will try and look into this sometimes later, sorry. Hopefully some people other than Catastrophe will post by the time I get to this.

[awestfie]

• Marcrell
  :
  
  
  • Day 1
  
  
  
  • ISO #0 (post 53)
    : RVS? Eh, not really. He's referring to Stabsinthe's opening (post 49.) While I will agree that Stabsinthe's opening wasn't exactly townie, it definitely wasn't scummy either - think this was an easy way to vote him and look "good" - Armageddon did the same in post 50. (votes
    Stabsinthe
    )
    
    ISO #1 (post 86)
    : Five reads without any sort of reasoning behind them. (Townish: Egg, Kodama, ShadedMelee. "Odd": Randomidget. "Suspicious": Stabsinthe.)
    
    ISO #2 (post 89)
    : n/a.
    
    ISO #3 (post 98)
    : He explains his reads from ISO #1 here, not with a lot of reasoning but hey - it's something.
    
    ISO #4 (post 126)
    : Eh, I fail to see how you gave your thoughts about Thomas here, to be honest. You sort of answered the question without giving any thoughts about his alignment. Initially, it looked like you town-read him; and then you proceeded to say something that made it look like you thought he was scum; but, you didn't say he was "null" or anything, seemed like you didn't want to take a stance?
    
    ISO #5 (post 144)
    : n/a.
    
    ISO #6 (post 177)
    : Yeah, no shit. (unvotes
    Stabsinthe
    )
    
    ISO #7 (post 182)
    : I don't get this post. You unvoted Stabsinthe because you knew he was obviously town, but; when you see someone else who wants to keep their vote on the person who claimed doctor on day 1 who absolutely had no chance of flipping scum, you've to question me for voting that someone? It really doesn't match up with your last post at all - you knew why I had my vote on tn.
    
    ISO #8 (post 213)
    : Same problem as ISO #1 and ISO #3 - he outs reads, says they have good post, but doesn't show us those "good" posts.
    
    ISO #9 (post 226)
    : Alright, he outs reads with reasoning behind every single one of them. Go re-read ISO #8 where he thought tn had good posts, which would imply he thought he was town, and re-read his read on tn in this; it simply doesn't match up. He thought tn had good posts yet didn't point them out at all here and only pointed out the most recent stuff tn had done. (votes
    Thomas
    )
    
    
    • Town
      : awestfie, Kodama,
      Stabsinthe
      .
      
      Leaning town
      : Egg,
      Ragnarok
      , Shaded, Wicked.
      
      Null
      :
      Armageddon
      , YankeeReaper (Catastrophe).
      
      Leaning scum
      : randomidget,
      tn
      .
      
      "Absolutely worthless"
      :
      Thomas
      .
    
    
    
    ISO #10 (post 231)
    : n/a.
    
    ISO #11 (post 234)
    : Obvious.
    
    ISO #12 (post 231)
    : Points out how Yankee hasn't been participating much and reinforces his null read on him.
    
    
    • Votes (in order):

      Stabsinthe

      ,

      Thomas

      .
    
    
    
    Day 2
    
    
    
    ISO #13 (post 282)
    : Alright, I don't understand this. On day 1; you pointed out how tn had some good posts but later in the day you outed a leaning-scum-read on him without pointing out which posts of his you did like. But, as soon as day 2 starts you again point out how he's anti-town but not exactly scummy enough to be voted (by you.) You obviously were doubting yourself here and didn't try to voice your opinion loudly at all. Why did you never point out the post of tn that you did like? It just seemed like you had a lot of negative feelings towards tn yet refused to vote him, for the most part.
    
    ISO #14 (post 305)
    : Guessing he's talking about post 287? Regardless, this feels like an incredibly weak defense. Really don't like how you felt the need to say you were horrible and that you entirely agreed with what Wicked said; it just felt like an attempt to look like town. Here: You point out that you're horrible and that it's solely the reason as to why you may not look good when being isolated; that's what you agreed to - you're implying that Wicked's concerns are purely based on the fact that you're playing bad and not because of your alignment.
    
    ISO #15 (post 331)
    : I agree.
    
    ISO #16 (post 334)
    : What kind of question is that? Why would you ask someone if they meant to put some at L-1 or not instead of telling them to unvote when it's still early in the day? Seriously don't understand this. If you were concerned that it was at L-1 why didn't you do anything to make sure tn wasn't going to be quick-lynched?
    
    ISO #17 (post 339)
    : Eh, I think most of his points on midget here are fair, not much to say about it. Just particularly don't like how you again agree that Wicked has a good case instead of fighting it.
    
    ISO #18 (post 383)
    : I commented on this before, but; it looked like you didn't want to take a stance at all. You point out that I could be throwing tn under the bus but at the same time you point out that I might just be town and that's the way I play. It's just a pointless post.
    
    ISO #19 (post 397)
    : "Putting the idea on the table."
    
    ISO #20 (post 399)
    : Half-reads, I guess? Not much to say here.
    
    
    • Town
      : Egg
      
      Leaning town
      : awestfie,
      Armageddon
      .
      
      Null
      : YankeeReaper (Catastrophe).
    
    
    
    ISO #21 (post 408)
    : Let me quote
    Armageddon
    a few times and make him look town.
    
    ISO #22 (post 425)
    : Never mind that, that read was terrible. Marcrell outs a "scum-read" on randomidget here, or well.. "least-likely-to-be-mafia-read." His suspicion is
    really
    strong; that's why he doesn't vote him.
    
    ISO #23 (post 430)
    : He quotes back ISO #17 here and adds some information to it. I thought his read on randomidget wasn't bad at all; and I honestly like his read on him. I just don't like the way Marcrell is approaching it and the way he's agreeing with the scum-read someone (Wicked) has on him.
    
    ISO #24 (post 440)
    : n/a.
    
    ISO #25 (post 448)
    : Here's the vote! Marcrell apparently lost all confidence in his own reads and decided to give up on them just to ultimately re-do them before the day ends. (votes
    randomidget
    )
    
    ISO #26 (post 454)
    : Eh, really don't like this. Think you would've just hammered as town and as scum you would've been concerned about hammering; which matches up with your need of asking if it was okay for you to hammer. And I'm saying this because you obviously wanted to hammer else you would've never asked this.
    
    ISO #27 (post 464)
    : Here's the hammer after getting the confirmation that it was okay. (votes
    tn
    )
    
    
    • Votes (in order): randomidget,

      tn

      .
    
    
    
    Day 3
    
    
    
    ISO #28 (post 486)
    : V/LA. (votes
    randomidget
    )
    
    
    • Votes (in order): randomidget.
    
    
    
    Day 4
    
    
    
    ISO #29 (post 547)
    : Not really much to say about this until he follows up, to be honest.
    
  
  
  

Alright.

Marcrell + randomidget aren't a team.
Marcrell + ShadedMelee could still be a team; although, I really think that's not the case.

Not really sure what to make of this Marcrell's ISO, though. I agree with some of the things he's done (really do like his case against Random,) but some other posts really do bother me (read above.) I hate that I've to list him as null here, but; I think I'm up for a randomidget lynch here, to be honest. (Not going to vote yet though, there's no point - we've a week and hammering with this lack of activity would be stupid.)

As for Kodama: Pieguyn is still around on the site and the one that went inactive seems to be Displaced; while I don't think this changes all that much, just keep in mind that: one head of the hydra has been around and didn't post at all during that time.

[awestfie]

Yes, Shaded, I'm townreading you, you won't get lynched.

Why are you so confident that he's town?

[awestfie]

Yes, Shaded, I'm townreading you, you won't get lynched.

Why are you so confident that he's town?

[awestfie]

Ignoring Titus' vote on me cause there's absolutely no logic behind it at all.

The Awestfie hammer wasn't just anti-town, there was scum-motivation behind it. Hammering before a claim doesn't allow a potentially clearing claim (any of the PR's) to prevent the lynch. Best case scenario, she lynches a PR who doesn't have to be night-killed. Worst case scenario, she lynches a VT. Either way its a mis-lynch of which she has an excuse for and "no regrets". Second scum-motivated play comes from pretending she was a cop with which she could drive a mislynch, lure the true cop into getting into a 1v1 if he caught on, all while denying it all if the heat came down. I don't see Awestfie's play here as town at all. Which concerns me with Titus' inital vote on them. Still need to do some more soul searching on these two slots...

You didn't read this game at all. Thomas had plenty of time to claim and didn't do so; I've talked about that hammer plenty of times (maybe if you ISO'd me; you'd have seen that.) Why would I, as scum, go out of way to hammer someone quickly on day 1 knowing they didn't claim a PR? I gain absolutely nothing; I look like scum on the next day and most likely just end up getting lynched and for what? There's a reason I didn't get lynched; it's because I'm town and if you actually went through and re-read me instead of just looking at the votes I've done; you'd see it.

I admitted that I soft claimed cop because I genuinely thought tn was mafia and that I could soak the next night kill; honestly, I am still surprised that tn flipped town and that's the only thing that may have made me look bad from you guy's point of view; but, either way: I couldn't have predicted that, at all.

awest, are you willing to vote Shaded?[/b]

Actually, I am - but I don't think he'll be lynched today so I don't really see a point. Who do you think is scum with him? (You've probably said this before but I'm short on time and have to go now.)

[awestfie]

Alright, I have some more time now.

So, Titus (randomidget) is at L-1 now, but I've no interest in hammering him right now; we've 3 days left and I'm honestly unsure as to who I want to lynch.

randomidget could be mafia. Catastrophe brought up a good point against him with regard to his change in stance on Armageddon. I also noticed that his reads suspiciously mirrored my own at one point. The only reason I haven't given that slot much attention is because I think their play is similar to Marcrell, but I seriously doubt they are both mafia.

I have some rereading to do. Bandwagons to look at, scum posts to look at, interactions to check. It won't be completed for a few days, but I really think we should wait for Kodama's replacement to arrive and contribute.

Any update on this? Do you still believe that Titus (randomidget) could be scum here? If so, do you think that Shaded is bussing here or would you look else where if Titus were to flip scum?

I honestly have Shaded as scum here which makes it hard for me to know if I want to hammer Titus here; who I also believe is scum. The team could very well be Armageddon/Shaded - Armageddon town-reads Shaded without really stating why in post 556. (I asked him twice now (post 558 and 570) and haven't got a response - and no, I don't think him ignoring me is scummy; I just don't like how he's so confident that Shaded is town to the point where he knows he won't be lynched today.)

To be fair, it could be possible that Shaded is bussing Titus here but I honestly don't see it at all - Shaded is being FoS'd by 2 people (Wicked ad I) so, losing his partner here would be suicidal. I genuinely think there's only 1 scum in {Titus/Shaded} and right now: I'm not sure which one I want lynched the most. I could be very well wrong about this and Shaded could purely be doing this for town credits but I'm fairly confident they aren't partners at this point.

[awestfie]

^

I don't know why I said Armageddon, I meant Catastrophe, lol.

[awestfie]

Oh joy. Another scummy hammer. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this Awestfie.

I told myself during this night cycle that I would end up voting Shaded no matter what happened and I still believe I'm going to do that; just not right now. I don't care if Shaded's hammer on Titus was considered a "quick-hammer" there; to me it looked incredibly opportunistic and nothing else and I really, really doubt he's town here. If Shaded is scum, Wicked is town; really doubt he tried to bus while we had a ML yesterday.

I'm about 80% sure that his partner is Marcrell; and as much as I'd love to re-read the Kodama (ProHawk) slot - there just isn't much content there.

[awestfie]

And I'm glad that Catastrophe answered my question as to why he town-read Shaded. Oh wait, never mind; he didn't. I fail to see how anyone could town-read him, especially after that opportunistic vote now.

[awestfie]

Also, unless I'm missing a mechanic; I don't understand why doctor wasn't on Egg or Catastrophe.

[awestfie]

Oh joy. Another scummy hammer. I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on this Awestfie.

I told myself during this night cycle that I would end up voting Shaded no matter what happened and I still believe I'm going to do that; just not right now. I don't care if Shaded's hammer on Titus was considered a "quick-hammer" there; to me it looked incredibly opportunistic and nothing else and I really, really doubt he's town here. If Shaded is scum, Wicked is town; really doubt he tried to bus while we had a ML yesterday.

I'm about 80% sure that his partner is Marcrell; and as much as I'd love to re-read the Kodama (ProHawk) slot - there just isn't much content there.

To clarify: I don't purely scum-read Shaded because of that hammer.

Read: 537, 593.

And yes, my "80% sure that his partner is Marcrell" might not match with my comment in 557; but I simply remember thinking Kodama was town initially and I haven't really looked back on it simply due to a lack of content - which is why I'm not instantly voting Shaded today.

[awestfie]

Not liking #606

You think Shaded is scum, yeah?

[awestfie]

Do you think 606 is scummy?

[awestfie]

So, you think there's a chance I'm his partner when Shaded attempted to lynch me for "quick hammering? K.

[awestfie]

I'm expressing my thoughts, is that so wrong with you? Jesus christ. I genuinely thought Doc should've been on them because they both town-told plenty. Do you seriously see that as an attempt to me to try and figure out who the doctor is? There's no "motivation" behind it, I just say what's on my mind instead of replacing in and asking for a tl;dr instead of read the game.

I'm town - and if you can't realize that, then; too bad.

[awestfie]

Cool. I thought 589 was lazily done and that your opening request of a tl;dr was bullshit; it's not going to give you any solid reads nor is it really going to help you in any way since you're going to end up reading the game in end regardless.

[awestfie]

Alright, Shaded/Marcrell is the team, then.

[awestfie]

Really really doubt that Shaded/Wicked is the team. It could be Wicked/Marcrell but I highly doubt Shaded isn't scum here.

Gonna re-read in a bit. (Like an hour or so.)

[awestfie]

Cool, now you just have to town-read me.

[awestfie]

You think I might be scum here, Wicked? If so, who do you think is most likely to be my partner? Am curious.

[awestfie]

Well, yeah - I know you'll still have your doubts about me; I was just curious if you thought I was scum here over the team of Marcrell/Shaded.

Don't have time to re-read the thread tonight, by the way; need to sleep.

[awestfie]

So... Shaded, you quick-hammered for self-preservation?

I quick-hammered because town was about to half-lose the game by lynching me and lynching a popular scum read did not seem worse than that to me. I don't see how this looks as "self-preservation" to you. If i had been lynched, we would be in the same situation as now. If my gambit had not fail, we would be close to winning the game. That was not a bad choice.

No. You quick-lynched Titus in an attempt to survive; that's all that you did. You ignored the fact that he might flip town and didn't think of the consequences of your hammer. I really doubt you'd have felt that pressured as town in that situation and honestly: I said I wasn't sure who I wanted to vote in you/Titus yesterday yet you still felt the need to hammer Titus.

Your vote on Titus was opportunistic and honestly I really doubt you're town at this point, man. Problem I've; if you're scum you wouldn't lose anything by quick-hammering Titus because you'd force us into 2 days without any mislynches. Town's job isn't to survive: it's to find scum. If two people FoS you that doesn't mean you should quickly hammer someone just to get out of it because trust me; you won't get out of it.

I'm just scared of the possibility that Marcrell/Wicked are a team; I personally town-read Wicked for the most part, but I'm just being paranoiac.

[awestfie]

What part is tweaking your paranoia?

Catastrophe's town-read on Shaded, mainly. I know things have changed since, but I questioned him when he did town-read him and all I wanted was an answer from him because I didn't see why he did town-read him and I simply never got it.

[awestfie]

Lmfao.

[awestfie]

Ugg, I guess there isn't any way to get out of this anymore :(....

Wicked, if you are town like you say you are, you just narrowed down the pool of potential candidates and I am likely to be killed anyway, so there really isn't any point to theory discussions although I would have much rather stayed under the radar.

I am the Macho Doc and I protected Wicked last night.

I wasn't sure if I was going to do this today, but you've forced my hand. I'm the macho doc, this guy is scum. Coincidentally, I actually did protect Wickedjsrt last night. Awestfie night 1, Ragnarok night 2, forgot about the game night 3 and didn't protect anybody.

Why were you on Ragnarok night 2 when you town-read Egg, at that time?

I wasn't sure if I was going to do this today, but you've forced my hand. I'm the macho doc, this guy is scum. Coincidentally, I actually did protect Wickedjsrt last night. Awestfie night 1,

Ragnarok night 2

, forgot about the game night 3 and didn't protect anybody.

Wait, who died on night 2?

Yeah, I thought the same but Cop becomes macho after one doctor dies and since Stab died, yeah..

[awestfie]

Oh, cool, I could hammer!

[awestfie]

The scum team simply doesn't have awestfie in it. I would've hammered there and followed your own logic of Ragnarok dying since it would've matched up with my previous mech comment where I was curious as to why the obvious town-reads kept dying. Post 606.

I act like Marcrell slipped, kill ProHawk and I look like town the next day since I'd have no reason to quick-lynch my partner considering the situation we're in.

[awestfie]

If he genuinely thought Marcrell slipped he wouldn't care that he put him at L-1; no idea where you're going with this, Shaded.

[awestfie]

Sorry, really not feeling good at the moment. I'm gonna try and catch up, later today, most likely in the morning.

Shaded you missed my question from before; Is it more likely that Marcrell is mafia or ProHawk?

I was leaning towards you & Marcrell, but after this last page of interactions i now lean towards you & Prohawk.
My nose smells bussing here.

Awe you and me are the key here. Please hear my voice.

I'll read tomorrow, but like I said before: I've a hard time believing you're town here. I've explained why and I haven't changed my mind much on it; I haven't read any of your recent content because I haven't been around at all; I'll read it all tomorrow and give you my thoughts. I'm not 100% set on you being scum; but I am close to it.

[awestfie]

Upon re-reading, I really don't like post 408.

Marcrell/Armageddon had some interactions, while Armageddon didn't interact with anyone else that is currently alive (he mainly interacted with Stabsinthe and Ragnarok.) (Read: 408 and 434 for the "interactions" with Marcrell, it's nothing great, though.)

Kodama (now ProHawk) reacted to Armageddon's initial post in 32 and 33 by stating that he thought it was a joke (and reinforcing that it was indeed a joke in 33.) Post 313, Kodama outs a town-read on Shaded; the posts from Shaded before Kodama outed that read are: 270, 279, 280 and 292. Kodama was also fine with lynching

Arma

/

Yankee

in post 350 (day 2.) After that, Kodama disappeared until they were replaced by ProHawk. One head of the hydra was around during all of this; but they didn't request replacement or bothered to post. (I pointed this out in 557, at the very bottom.)

[awestfie]

Also, I don't know why you guys care about who was saved on the first night since it clearly didn't matter; Stabs claimed and he was obviously going to die.

[awestfie]

WTF. That was unexpected.

So we know one of [Marcrell, Prohawk] is scum. And we know {prohawk,awe} is not possible. Not bad.

I think it can be Marcrell & Wicked especially for the "whoops i forgot somebody could hammer" post of wicked. I really do not see how wicked can forget that and vote for Marcrell.

Prohawk & wicked and marcrell & awe are quite possible too, but i have to look at the interactions deeply.

Seems like you're town-reading Marcrell, am I correct? And I mean, you just named every team possible excluding the one that contains you. ("I think it's x and y, but x and z is still quite possible.") Just feels like you don't want to take a stance at all.

Armageddon was likely scum, but not confirmed scum. And please reread - Catastrophe called Armageddon confirmed scum AFTER Armageddon had claimed mafia and self-hammered. You called Armageddon confirmed scum before he claimed.

Yeah when I voted Marcrell it was because

I thought he was confirmed scum

until awestfie pointed out that he wasn't.

Plus even if I voted Marcrell now, it's not like the votes are hard to keep track of. There are only five people here, three to lynch.

So you think me telling Arma conf-scum before he reveals himself is scummy. But it is NOT when you do the same. Right?

This is really weak.

If he genuinely thought Marcrell slipped he wouldn't care that he put him at L-1; no idea where you're going with this, Shaded.

He should care, because human-beings make mistakes. If Marcrell is town and he made a mistake in his judgement (and he really did because ragna was macho), scum could quick-hammer and win the game. I don't see how this is unimportant.

Yeah, the mistake was that he thought Marcrell was confirmed scum and that he'd have no reason not to vote him at that point. Think scum would've remembered those mechanics more-so than town would; I'm not town-reading him for that, but I'm just saying. This again feels like a really weak push.

I just realized if wicked is scum awe is not (because they would hammer Marcrell and win)

Awe you should really start trusting me because i think your worst nightmare is true. It is either Wicked & Pro or Wicked & Marcrell. Which one do you think is more probable?

There's two doc claims, so obviously I can't be scum with Wicked? Nor can I be scum with you. I really don't like this post. Do you town-read me, why do I need to be the one to be trusting you and not Wicked? I haven't seen you out a town-read on me before any of this and that appeal just came out of absolutely no where.

Shaded you missed my question from before; Is it more likely that Marcrell is mafia or ProHawk?

I was leaning towards you & Marcrell, but after this last page of interactions i now lean towards you & Prohawk.
My nose smells bussing here.

Awe you and me are the key here. Please hear my voice.

Alright.

Point me to the bussing that you see from Wicked vs. ProHawk? I mean, I saw Wicked's "suspicion" but that didn't exactly come off as a bus to me; mind enlightening me? Also, this post confirms that you town-read me; but you haven't voiced that at all this game and it's something that has come from the last page only. Why are you so confident that I'm town now?

[awestfie]

Is anyone here, by the way?

[awestfie]

Cool. If you had to lynch a doctor right now, who would it be and why?

[awestfie]

Ah.

Yeah, I thought for sure you were going to die. What does ABC mean? You were the one honing in on Shaded, not Catastrophe. Shaded has to be Marcrell's partner.

If Shaded has to be scum, then why do you think he would kill the slot that was town reading him as opposed to... say... awest (a slot that was more popularly town read and suspicious of Shaded)? I'm asking partially because I'm not sure myself.

I think you know the answer to that.

[awestfie]

Also, I don't know why you guys care about who was saved on the first night since it clearly didn't matter; Stabs claimed and he was obviously going to die.

Very good point. I town read you after you quick hammered but I was surprised that both Kodama and Marcrell also town read you enough to both choose you. Usually quick hammers are frowned upon but they both seemed fine with it. That's why I was curious.

I'm not surprised at all that Kodama picked me, to be honest. Read post 33. I think it matches up perfectly with him attempting to save me. Yes, it's early in the game; but if you consider the fact that scum would've no reason to quick-hammer on day 1 and that the doctor claim was going to die then you'll understand why I wasn't a bad save, at all. Worst case scenario is: the claimed doc dies, best case scenario is: the doctor saves their town-read. It was fine.

Same goes for Marcrell, actually. Read post 226; I was his top town-read as well.

[awestfie]

But I honestly don't think talking about who the docs attempted to save will really get us anywhere; I only did because I was disappointed to see both Egg and Catastrophe get night-killed when I town-read them both solidly.

[awestfie]

How about you, which direction are you leaning right now?

After reading 408 - I'd vote Marcrell if I had to, right now.

Would you rather lynch in doctors or in VT's today? Or do you not really care either or? Which do you feel the most confident about?

[awestfie]

What about 408 indicates that Marcrell is scum?

Cool to see you're still here, usually people only post once and then leave.

Anyways, Marcrell's previous post before 408 is 399 (which, by the way: he as Armageddon leaning as town here) where he outs half-reads. He follows up with 408 (talking about someone who he already outed a read on, why?) and starts the post with "you guys made me do this" as if he didn't even want to out any reads or give any sort of effort; although I might be misreading that part. He didn't even follow up on his reads at all and he just left them like the way they were in 399.

Regardless, 408 consists of just a huge town-read on Armageddon by Marcrell and he never actually voices it out loud after that; which is what bothers me. After that post, Marcrell never mentioned Armageddon again; not even after Armageddon was lynched. I just simply can't see why Marcrell would play this passive as town; I understand that he is a PR, but it's not like because he was given a PR role that he should be playing this passive. I understand trying to hide, but this simply doesn't feel like that.

I've thought about it and I think we should lynch in VTs today.

Advantages of lynching in VTs first;
-Right now I'm 55-45 for Pro vs. Marcrell but I'm 90-10 for Shaded vs. you. So I would be way more confident lynching Shaded.
-This allows us more time to decide between the docs, the more difficult choice.
-We all agree that Shaded is scum.
-If we ultimately decide to lynch the real doc, then it would at least be cool if we could lynch one more scum first.

At first, I thought it would be best to lynch docs first because you and I are both here to decide together now as opposed to tomorrow. But then I remembered we still have two living doc claims. That means, if we lynch Shaded today and he's scum, you and I are immune from the kill tonight. So there's actually another advantage;

-If Shaded is scum and we lynch him, then we have two confirmed townies tomorrow.

If we lynch Shaded today and he does indeed flip scum; only one of us is immune to the night kill. (You said 'and' and not 'or.') Only if we lynch the correct scum in the docs will we both immune to the night-kill, unless scum is ballsy enough to hit me and leave the doctor alive; but the doctor would most likely be on me so that can't even work. Anyways, this doesn't really matter; just correcting you.

Think lynching in VT's is a better idea as well right now too; but not because of the whole "we could lynch one more scum first" idea; but because I actually feel more confident about my scum-read in the VT's.

I'd love to stay and chat, but it's 1:40 AM and I told myself I'd go to sleep at 1:30 AM. If I can't fall asleep, then I might make short phone posts.

Yeah, that's fine. Thanks for sticking around. Just want people to start posting more, that's all.

[awestfie]

And despite me talking about Marcrell more than Shaded; I actually am more certain about Shaded>Wicked is scum over Marcrell>ProHawk. Think it could be understandable for Marcrell to be playing this passive all throughout, but I honestly doubt town would be THAT passive. Then again, I feel like scum would've gave more effort to out reads (even if they are fake reads, it's not hard to do out those and I feel like he didn't even do that,) but maybe I'm just over-reading him.

Shaded push on Marcrell quite a bit for him to out reads and it could be a scum vs. scum frustration; Shaded could have just not been happy with how his partner was playing and interacted with him heavily in an attempt to look like town would Marcrell ever be lynched.

[awestfie]

I really wish Kodama had posted more than he did before getting replaced. It's the only thing that's making me doubt ProHawk here; a lack of content from Kodama.

Marcrell's claim really is just awful while ProHawk's claim felt really natural (his frustration about me saying doc should've been on Catastrophe and the frustration towards Wicked asking for a doc claim.) Then again, that could've been set up the night before for ProHawk to claim doc and that frustration could just feel natural because ProHawk knew he'd claim doc.

[awestfie]

Shaded push on Marcrell quite a bit for him to out reads and it could be a scum vs. scum frustration; Shaded could have just not been happy with how his partner was playing and interacted with him heavily in an attempt to look like town would Marcrell ever be lynched.

Pushed*

(306: Shaded outs Marcrell as null.
358: Shaded requests a "detailed analysis" of all players to Marcrel to allow us to get a better read on him. Reinforces his null-read on him. Marcrell responds with 399.
428: Shaded asks Marcrell to out his scum-read on randomidget in details and to update his reads that he thought were horrible (read: 425.))

Here's what I think doesn't match up with Marcrell, right? He outs a town-read on Armageddon in post 399, reinforces that town-read in post 408; but then in post 425 he points out that his reads are horrible and he gives them all up. Why would he even do that? It seemed like he was confident that Armageddon was town in post 408 because he was saying how he had pretty much all the same thought process as him ("pushed same as me") it implies that Marcrell town-read Armageddon for having the same thoughts as he did. And even if that's no why he town-read him; in that very same post he states that he made a good case against tn and that he's analyzing and producing content.

Phone post - just wanted to clarify one thing quickly

Awest, my idea was that we tell the doc claims who to protect before we lynch. Eg. Pro you protect awest and Marcrell you protect me. Then if we lynch Shaded and he's maf then the remaining maf has to not kill. If you died during the night we'd know pro was maf because he was supposed to protect you. Likewise if I died we'd know Marcrell was maf. Mafia has to not kill otherwise they're outed - we would both survive the night.

I'm an idiot. You're right. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

[awestfie]

Shaded push on Marcrell quite a bit for him to out reads and it could be a scum vs. scum frustration; Shaded could have just not been happy with how his partner was playing and interacted with him heavily in an attempt to look like town would Marcrell ever be lynched.

Here's what I think doesn't match up with Marcrell, right? He outs a town-read on Armageddon in post 399, reinforces that town-read in post 408; but then in post 425 he points out that his reads are horrible and he gives them all up. Why would he even do that? It seemed like he was confident that Armageddon was town in post 408 because he was saying how he had pretty much all the same thought process as him ("pushed same as me") it implies that Marcrell town-read Armageddon for having the same thoughts as he did. And even if that's no why he town-read him; in that very same post he states that he made a good case against tn and that he's analyzing and producing content.

Since I apparently can't write properly, let me clarify.

I feel like Marcrell's posts don't match up at all.

399 and 408 = match.
But if you do 399, 408 and 425 then it simply doesn't match.

Marcrell seemed confident that Armageddon was town yet in 425 he completely gave up on not only his read on Armageddon; but all of his reads.

Marcrell, why were your reads "horrible" and why did you feel the need to give up on all of them? I fail to see why town would do this - in post 408; you showed that you had the same thought process as Armageddon. And you also felt like he had a good case against tn and that he was "producing and analyzing content;" so why did that read completely change after 17 posts?

Wicked, your idea is perfect except that you do not take account that i am town.

I am really frustrated with how you are being manipulated by wicked, awe. I give up.
Lynch me and we will loose the game. That easy.

Am I voting you, right now? Honestly, come on. Do you seriously blame me for scum-reading you? Can't you try and help me instead of appealing to me?

[awestfie]

I still don't understand why you're 100% confident that I'm town, Shaded. Do you honestly believe there is no way I'm scum here, if so, why? I understand that you think Wicked is scum; but that shouldn't enough confidence to believe I can't be scum at this point. Why wouldn't you doubt yourself?

[awestfie]

Sigh.

[awestfie]

Ok, just spent more time reading. Marcrell/Wicked aren't partners. Read: 105, 118, 250 and 287. I really doubt Wicked would've went out of his way to try and bus Marcrell that early in the game; he does retract his read in post 337; but I'm still fairly confident that they aren't partners.

Eh, actually.. post 362. Sigh. I don't know, this genuinely doesn't look like a partner interaction either; Wicked's concern here just seems natural and I don't see why he'd push on something so meaningless if they were partners; I think he'd just ignore it. Post 392: Wicked asks Marcrell if he thinks randomidget is mafia, sort of similar to what Shaded did towards Marcrell; as in, you both pushed on him to out reads. Again, post 424; Wicked pushes Marcrell to out his read on random. Wicked decides to vote Armageddon in post 443 which was day 2, I honestly don't think this vote means all that much since tn was going to be voted off no matter what.

I really think Wicked's town here, to be honest; but there's something holding me back from voting, for some reason. Both doctors should unvote, regardless; I want the lynch today to be in the VT's and we'll do a doctor-test.

[awestfie]

Also think this; if me & one of {Marcrell, Pro} had been the scum, wouldn't it be better for me to claim/counter-claim the doc? What is the point of other scum outing himself while i was already facing pressure? I could claim/counter-claim the doc, and even if i get lynched, other scum would kill the doc at night so town would loose his conf-town.

I think the point of scum was to put us in this exact situation where the only meaningful lynch for you would appear as the lynch of me, thus we would loose the game.

Look how wicked proposed the doc claim, look how he now proposes the lynch of a VT.

They could claim to get the pressure off of you, but I get your point; ProHawk actually would have a good reason to claim doctor as scum here considering the Kodama slot didn't have much content and since both Wicked and I were pushing on you; he'd have nothing to lose. Marcrell, on the other hand, didn't have much of a good reason to counter-claim there; which bothers me.

Eh, I wanted to propose the doctor claim too; but thought you guys wouldn't be up for it so I never actually followed through; but I do think lynching in VT's today is optimal since we can doctor test and have two players attempting to find the scum tomorrow instead of just one.

Do you still think Wicked/ProHawk is the team?

[awestfie]

And I really want both docs to start posting some more; because I genuinely can't read either of you if you don't post and no amount of re-reading will help that. I've said this countless times but Kodama has barely any content and I requested the mod to replace them, he did it way too late and therefore there's absolutely nothing to read in that slot, at all. As for you, Marcrell; you've been playing incredibly passive and not really saying much; change that.

[awestfie]

We're getting nowhere.

[awestfie]

Awest,

We lynch Shaded- he flips scum, Marcrell never counters my claim and I die tonight. Left is you, wicked, and Marcrell.

Who dies?

No one dies, because we'd doctor-test. As in, Marcrell would be on me, you would be on Wicked; that way neither of us can die and mafia can't sack.

[awestfie]

Okay, just woke up; didn't read that fully. Regardless, what's your point?

[awestfie]

Are you kidding me? I'm being punked right?

=)

[awestfie]

Any VT's here? You two docs can keep fighting, ty.

[awestfie]

Actually, Marcrell & ProHawk, are you both still here? Do you still want Shaded lynched? I'd rather lynch in VT's and I genuinely feel like we're getting nowhere, at this point.

[awestfie]

What I want to do and what I would do are two different things...

What's your idea?

[awestfie]

Except I'd rather lynch in VT's since that way I've someone to talk to tomorrow that I can trust.

[awestfie]

This is going nowhere. VOTE: Shadedmelee And I hope to god we're right, otherwise scum will laugh to hell and back as they win.

Just unvote.

[awestfie]

Lmfao, I'm refreshing the page like an idiot. Marcrell, unvote please.

[awestfie]

Because I was looking at the "who is online?" thing and Wicked showed up as soon as you voted and I got paranoiac, lmao.

[awestfie]

I suck.

[awestfie]

What is the deal with your lack of conviction?

Same could be said about you; considering you only want Marcrell lynched today and probably won't ever vote outside of him.

Tell me; what we've accomplished in the last few pages? Answer is: absolutely nothing; I don't expect that to change anytime soon, sadly.

[awestfie]

You wanna know what I was testing?

Both doctors should unvote, regardless; I want the lynch today to be in the VT's and we'll do a doctor-test.

I don't just unvote unless its to stop a quick-hammer. Marcrell is scum, Shaded is scum. If you are ready to lynch Shaded, I will move my vote there, until then I am going to keep pushing Marcrell cause he is conf-scum.

It was that; and guess what: you didn't vote him.

Go figure. My role PM literally says: Marcrell is scum. If you think I won't go down doing my best to get him lynched you're crazy.

I don't care that you want to lynch your CC, lynching in VT's is much better; you've contradicted yourself already and all you're doing is giving us one sentence while trying to get Marcrell lynched which doesn't help anyone.

[awestfie]

you've contradicted yourself already

Because I didn't just vote him just then when you asked so nicely? :neutral:

"I don't just unvote unless its to stop a quick-hammer. Marcrell is scum, Shaded is scum. If you are ready to lynch Shaded, I will move my vote there, until then I am going to keep pushing Marcrell cause he is conf-scum. "

Read the above again, read what I said in 772 again. I was definitely ready to hammer him; so why didn't you do as you said? Seems like a contradiction to me, yeah.

I mean, at this point, I feel like you're thinking I do these posts to irritate you when I really just don't. It's the way I play mafia, I post a lot and I out the things that I feel like are worth saying. And honestly, right now, I feel like we're getting nowhere; and I sort of just want to see a flip; if I'm wrong, I'm wrong, that's why you might see a "lack of conviction," but tell me; can you really blame me for that?

[awestfie]

I didn't say he was scum for it, did I? I said he contradicted himself which he did; I fail to see how I didn't look "ready" to lynch Shaded there. There's not much to explain, Wicked.

[awestfie]

You kept saying I'd rather lynch Marcrell, I'd rather lynch Marcrell guys! Why did you say, I'll lynch Shaded once you're ready?

I said I FoS'd Shaded more than Wicked so why would I lynch him? You still haven't read, have you? Do I need to give you a tl;dr?

[awestfie]

I didn't say he was scum for it, did I? I said he contradicted himself which he did; I fail to see how I didn't look "ready" to lynch Shaded there. There's not much to explain, Wicked.

You didn't say he was scum. But the wording of your post indicated to me that you found the contradiction odd or suspicious - I was curious what was odd or suspicious about it. You said you were testing ProHawk so I assumed it was an effort to further discern his alignment and the contradiction was a negative result. If you didn't see anything odd or suspicious in the contradiction, then I don't understand why you paid attention to it or tested him in the first place.

Alright, sunshine.

I wanted to see if ProHawk was going to be a man-of-his-words and clearly; he wasn't. He believes Shaded is scum and there was a good opportunity for him to get him lynched there and he didn't take it, why?

A) Shaded is the partner of ProHawk and it would explain why ProHawk was refusing to vote him and it would match up with the fact that ProHawk only wants to have Marcrell lynched.
B) ProHawk didn't feel confident enough to move his vote there yet; which I don't think is the case considering he said he would less than 20 posts ago.

Maybe I do think he's scum, but I'm just fucking uncertain, re-read where I panicked and told Marcrell to unvote; do you seriously feel like I'd pull that off as scum? I even looked at the online list before asking for it and saw you weren't on there and when he voted I saw you showed up on there so I pushed on him to unvote. Because with the message I'm reading it almost makes it look like you're rising your suspicion on me; I may be reading it wrong.

[awestfie]

I'm not gonna lie, I just want to lynch someone, at this point. The longer this goes; the better it'll be for scum.

And for what it's worth, I'm actually ready to lynch Shaded. I've grown confident enough to the point that I seriously doubt that I'll be changing my mind. Additionally, we all seem confident that Shaded is scum but I think it will be easier to determine his partner once we KNOW he is scum. Something about checking doc interactions with Shaded is more motivating/interesting/important once I know Shaded's scum. I'm starting to agree with awest that we are now going nowhere. I believe 16 (or less) days of consideration with two confirmed townies, two dead scum, one simple 50-50 decision will yield more beneficial discussion than this.

I agree; no amount of talking will help this day, seeing a role-flip will; I might be wrong about this and I'll probably be really disappointed if I am, but I'd rather that than keep playing and get nowhere.

[awestfie]

I say that and yet I still don't vote, I hate myself.

[awestfie]

=(

[awestfie]

Stop.

[awestfie]

As in, stop voting yourself.

[awestfie]

The only thing that bothers me about Wicked is:

A) His opening; the comment in post 10 ("Clearly the three mafia are Egg, RagnarokCometh, and Stabsinthe. They thought they could prolong the confirmation stage by not confirming and chatting it up in their scum qt instead. Unfortunately for them, they didn't realize that the mod was bolding the names of those who had confirmed already - rookie mistake on their part.") is something I saw him do in another game where he was scum, but I never saw him do it as town. (http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=84&t=25440 - post 9)
B) In post 23, I simply can't understand why Armageddon vote me when he thought I betrayed Wicked; why would he vote me yet quote him?

I know it's really weak, but it's the only thing that's bothering me about him. =/

[awestfie]

Should probably have clarified. For A; I've reviewed ten games of him in no particular order and that was the only time I saw him do that and I thought it was very similar to what he did this game. I felt liked Wicked posts a lot and asks a lot of questions as town which I thought matched with his play this game.

[awestfie]

I'd honestly hate to be in Shaded's position as either alignment and can understand his frustration, but I can't make anything of it since I'd have the same reaction as either alignment, personally and I feel like he would too.

[awestfie]

Sorry, I'm here. Thinking.

[awestfie]

=(

[awestfie]

I mean, it's not like the vote matters since I'm town and it's not going to get blitzed. I'm just thinking it all through, that's all. =/

[awestfie]

Marcrell protects awestfie; ProHawk protects Wicked.

[awestfie]

I'm here.

[awestfie]

=)

[awestfie]

I'm sorry; I just simply cannot not do this, at this point. I'm not only sorry if you're town, am also if sorry if you're scum; because I can tell that your frustration is genuine and just re-reading your past few days I can see your frustration is non-alignment based nor do I think it's an alignment-tell.

Vote: ShadedMelee

If this is right, just in case:

Marcrell you protect awestfie tonight

ProHawk you protect me tonight

No excuses if one of us dies tonight.

[awestfie]

Yeah, with Marcrell.

[awestfie]

Wanted to give him the honor of hammering; but I feared that he wouldn't show up anytime soon, so..

[awestfie]

Gonna catch up sometime in the night or early in the morning; don't really have time to right now, sorry.

[awestfie]

Sorry, won't have time for this until later tonight.

Wicked, have you played with ProHawk before and feel pretty confident in your ability to read him?

Just letting you know now, I've a trouble with town-reading newbs (no offense, Marcrell) as in that; I town-read them way too easily.

[awestfie]

Yeah, I'd like for Marcrell to be answer post [post]836[/post, as well.

If you honestly thought you were onto someone who was scum, why would you feel the need to be hesitant about what you post? I fail to see why you thought you'd die for attacking a scum when other people were a town-read way way more than you were; I honestly can't see why you'd have the concern of dying when those people were still alive.

And yeah, ProHawk; I just mess around in marathons, so I can't say that that has helped me read you any easier in this game.

[awestfie]

Nice. 836. I'm good!

[awestfie]

Alright, just compiling a list of all the VC's with colours so it's easier to tell who voted who every day; this may or may not help. Gonna look at interactions next.

• All of the VC's
  
  
  
  Day 1
  
  
  

  • Vote Count 0.2
    Thomas : RagnarokCometh , Kodama Stabsinthe : Armageddon , Marcrell Egg : Wickedestjr Tn5421 : TheYankeeReaper Armageddon : Tn5421 TheYankeeReaper : Egg Awestfie : Thomas randomidget : ShadedMelee Not Voting: randomidget , Awestfie , Stabsinthe
    With 13 alive it is 7 to lynch
    (expired on 2014-06-25 09:57:00)

    
    
    

    Vote Count 0.3
    Stabsinthe : Armageddon , Marcrell Thomas : Kodama, RagnarokCometh Egg : Wickedestjr Tn5421 : TheYankeeReaper Armageddon : Tn5421 TheYankeeReaper : Egg Awestfie : Thomas randomidget : ShadedMelee Not Voting: randomidget , Awestfie , Stabsinthe
    With 13 alive it is 7 to lynch
    (expired on 2014-06-25 09:57:00)

    
    
    

    Vote Count 0.4
    Stabsinthe : Armageddon , Marcrell Thomas : Kodama, RagnarokCometh Egg : Wickedestjr Armageddon : Tn5421 TheYankeeReaper : Egg Awestfie : Thomas randomidget : ShadedMelee RagnarokCometh : TheYankeeReaper Wickedestjr : Stabsinthe Not Voting: randomidget , Awestfie
    With 13 alive it is 7 to lynch
    (expired on 2014-06-25 09:57:00)

    
    
    

    Vote Count 0.5
    Stabsinthe : Marcrell, Tn5421 , Stabsinthe Marcrell: Wickedestjr , Kodama TheYankeeReaper : Egg Awestfie : Thomas randomidget : ShadedMelee RagnarokCometh : TheYankeeReaper Thomas : RagnarokCometh Not Voting: randomidget , Awestfie , Armageddon
    With 13 alive it is 7 to lynch
    (expired on 2014-06-25 09:57:00)

    
    
    

    Vote Count 0.6
    Stabsinthe : Marcrell, Tn5421 Marcrell: Wickedestjr , Kodama Thomas : RagnarokCometh , Egg Awestfie : Thomas randomidget : ShadedMelee RagnarokCometh : TheYankeeReaper Armageddon : Stabsinthe Not Voting: randomidget , Awestfie , Armageddon
    With 13 alive it is 7 to lynch
    (expired on 2014-06-25 09:57:00)

    
    
    

    Vote Count 0.8
    Thomas : RagnarokCometh , Egg , randomidget , ShadedMelee Marcrell: Wickedestjr , Kodama randomidget : Thomas RagnarokCometh : TheYankeeReaper Armageddon : Stabsinthe Stabsinthe : Tn5421 Tn5421 : Awestfie Not Voting: Armageddon , Marcrell
    With 13 alive it is 7 to lynch
    (expired on 2014-06-25 09:57:00)

    
    
    

    Vote Count 0.9
    LYNCH :right: :right: Thomas : RagnarokCometh , Egg , randomidget , ShadedMelee , Marcrell, Tn5421 , Awestfie :left: :left: Marcrell: Wickedestjr , Kodama randomidget : Thomas RagnarokCometh : TheYankeeReaper Armageddon : Stabsinthe Not Voting: Armageddon
    With 13 alive it is 7 to lynch
    (expired on 2014-06-25 09:57:00)

  
  
  
  Day 2
  
  
  

  • Vote Count 1.1
    Tn5421 : Awestfie , Armageddon Marcrell: Wickedestjr , randomidget Awestfie : Tn5421 Armageddon : RagnarokCometh Not Voting: Egg , TheYankeeReaper , Kodama, Marcrell, ShadedMelee
    With 11 alive it is 6 to lynch
    (expired on 2014-07-03 09:12:00)

    
    
    

    Vote Count 1.2
    Tn5421 : Awestfie , Armageddon , ShadedMelee , RagnarokCometh Marcrell: Wickedestjr , randomidget Awestfie : Tn5421 Not Voting: Egg , TheYankeeReaper , Kodama, Marcrell
    With 11 alive it is 6 to lynch
    (expired on 2014-07-03 09:12:00)

    
    
    

    Vote Count 1.3
    Tn5421 : Awestfie , Armageddon , ShadedMelee , Boonskiies , Egg Marcrell: randomidget Awestfie : Tn5421 randomidget : RagnarokCometh Kodama: Wickedestjr Not Voting: Kodama, Marcrell
    With 11 alive it is 6 to lynch
    (expired on 2014-07-03 09:12:00)

    
    
    

    Vote Count 1.4
    Tn5421 : Awestfie , Armageddon , ShadedMelee , Boonskiies , Egg Awestfie : Tn5421 Kodama: Wickedestjr Armageddon : RagnarokCometh Not Voting: Kodama, Marcrell, randomidget
    With 11 alive it is 6 to lynch
    (expired on 2014-07-03 09:12:00)

    
    
    

    Vote Count 1.5
    LYNCH! :right: Tn5421 : Awestfie , Armageddon , ShadedMelee , Boonskiies , Egg , Marcrell :left: Armageddon : RagnarokCometh , randomidget , Wickedestjr Awestfie : Tn5421 Not Voting: Kodama
    With 11 alive it is 6 to lynch
    (expired on 2014-07-03 09:12:00)

    
    
    
    Day 3
    
    
    

    Vote Count 2.1
    randomidget : Marcell Armageddon : Awestfie Not Voting: Kodama, Armageddon , ShadedMelee , Catastrophe , Egg , randomidget , Wickedestjr
    With 11 alive it is 6 to lynch
    (expired on 2014-07-20 14:51:00)

    
    
    

    Vote Count 2.2
    Armageddon : Awestfie , Catastrophe , Egg , ShadedMelee , Armageddon randomidget : Marcell Not Voting: Kodama, randomidget , Wickedestjr
    With 9 alive it is 5 to lynch
    (expired on 2014-07-20 14:51:00)

    
    
    
    Day 4
    
    
    

    Vote Count 3.2
    Titus (2): Catastrophe , Marcrell Wickedestjr (1): ShadedMelee ShadedMelee (1): Wickedestjr Awestfie (1): : Titus Not Voting: Kodama, Awestfie ,
    With 7 alive it is 4 to lynch
    (expired on 2014-07-20 14:51:00)

    
    
    

    Vote Count 3.3
    Titus (4): Catastrophe , Marcrell, ProHawk, ShadedMelee ShadedMelee (1): Wickedestjr Awestfie (1): : Titus Not Voting: Awestfie ,
    With 7 alive it is 4 to lynch
    (expired on 2014-07-20 14:51:00)

    
    
    
    Day 5 didn't matter; since everyone voted Shaded.
    
    
    

Alright, checking interactions now; may or may not have to leave in the middle of it. Been busy the last few days, so I'm sorry if I haven't been posting as much as I used to.

[awestfie]

Kodama's interaction with X/Y:

Vote TheYankeeReaper

For a "just because" vote on someone who was already voted. Bandwagoning without wanting to call it that.

^this felt kind of town. I can def perceive where he's coming from here and think the concern looks townish


I have to admit I lol'd hard at Arm's post. I'm not reading it as serious

Unvote

Got townish vibes.

Vote: awestfie

center of attention. That won't hide that you're scum.

oh lord

vote: Thomas

first off, what exactly was town about Arm's post? it's p much a joke post and so I would consider it as null. second, I think you're reading too much into RVS posting, which is more likely to come from scum than town IME


I'm reading awest town, her posting comes off as relaxed and genuinely at ease. that, and I agree with her read on Thomas.

@tn:

what made you think Arm's post was serious?

Oh I'm absolutely fine, how are you? :)

Welp, after much consideration and reading through I'm beginning to get town vibes which leads me to suspect that awest is town.

Unvote

is that really all you have to say

what are your other reads?

I shall have to look over everything again. Although claiming doctor in this scenario does seem a bit suspicious to my eyes, especially the way he did it. But I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Stab's claim looks kosher to me. I think it unlikely he'd lock himself in this early to a fakeclaim as scum and in general I think scum more likely to fakeclaim cop in order to expose the real cop. The only benefit to fakeclaim doc is delaying the cc for an unknown period of time, which could just end up backfiring badly.

Would be comfortable lynching in [Arma/Yankee]. Both are newbies and flaking *is* a scumtell for newb players.

Interactions with Armageddon; regarding, mainly, post 23. Not really going deep into the conversation thought and just checking it off as a joke. All of those posts, minus the last one, were all from day 1. The last quote was from day 2; and after that, Kodama pretty much disappeared until later replaced.

Kodama had one other interaction with someone else on the scum-team:

Well I have to say I was concerned with Shaded yesterday (having RVS in play for a loooong time mainly) but today his posts seem very town motivated.

Other than that; Kodama didn't have any other content, really. He interacted with Ragnarok/Egg a few times and after the post above he pretty much stopped posting and disappeared until later replaced.

[awestfie]

Marcrell's interaction with X/Y:

From a quick glance, feeling townish on Egg, Kodama, and ShadedMelee. RandomModget seems a bit odd. Stabsinthe seems a little less suspicious, but still suspicious.

Reads... ShadedMelee/Kodama seem to have well-reasoned posts. Liking what they're doing so far. Egg is more gut, I just like him. RandomMidget says he's worried about a quick lynch when we need seven to vote and the most someone has is two votes. Behavior seems odd. Stab, see previous post.

Can't rebute most of what Wicked said, I have a major fence sitting tendency. YankeeReaper asked me a while back my thoughts on Thomas, so I may as well respond now. He seems to have reasons like me, general and unspecific. Took a lot from a joke and changes his vote, might have reconsidered his stance in the game and used that as an excuse to change it. It would also appear I mistakes Shaded's post with one or several other people's. Don't see what I remember in his ISO.

Okay then, reads list. Like this didn't go wrong last time.
Armageddon: Null. Some content, nothing wrong with it, nothing right with it. Nada.
awestfie: Town. Lots of good discussion, lots of asking people about their reads and such to get more discussion.
bubbajack8: 100% scum. Only posts game updates, no reads.
Egg: Town lean. Decent reasoning. Most posts mean something, but many small ones.
Kodama: Town. Same reasons as awestfie, lots of good questions, relevant posts.
Marcrell: Town. Found out through magic scrying powers.
RagnarokCometh: Leaning town. Speaking a lot, very relevant. Like reads, very well explained.
randomidget: Null. Slight scum read. Little content. Has about two posts that have any content in them, maybe small splatterings elsewhere.
ShadedMelee: Town lean. Not too much in the way of reading(some), ask a couple questions about reads.
Stabsinthe: Town. I believe his claim. Unfortunate how early it had to come.
TheYankeeReaper: Null. Went V/LA relatively early, the 4 posts aren't enough for much of an opinion. Fortunately, he should be back now.
Thomas: Absolutely worthless in the game so far. I'd support lynching him now just so when it comes to a critical vote we're not choosing between a slightly scummy guy and no content guy.
tn5421: Null, leaning scum. Some content, some filler. Gets very angry, which gives no information, can cause other people to get angry, which causes them to give no information, and so can only be detrimental to the town. Please remain calm in later posts if possible.
Wickedestjr: Null, leaning town. From 104 down seems to be good, content-filled post. Good man.
And so forth... VOTE: Thomas If there's no content, an early lynch when we can afford it is a better lynch then later when we can't.

I hope this was worth the wait folks! A detailed analysis!
Armageddon: In most posts he explains his votes, asks questions, gives reasons. Much decent content. A few suspicious bumps along the way, but overall he is Town leaning.
Awestfie: Lots of questions, stimulating conversation, more hunting. I worded my earlier post badly, I meant in the same way in Thomas as you're going very hard for a lynch as soon as possible on tn today and the quickhammer on Thomas yesterday. Seems very motivated to lynch those he scumreads. Town lean.
I really regret coming on now, so tireeeedddd.
Boonskiies/TheYankeeReaper: Null. Barely any posts, not enough to go on.
Egg: His posts have content. Lots. I think especially today, after he started analyzing the lynch, he has the post numbers and analysis. Town. So definitely.
Guys, it's 12 A.M., I can't do this anymore. I'll give you the rest tomorrow, I just can't take anymore of this.

You guys made me do this know that. Quotes! These will come slowly since I'm on my phone and am a little busy.

Nevermind. Found my role PM.

Unvote. I need to think this through since I am town affiliated.

VOTE: stabsinthe

Why do you feel the need to say that? Almost feels to me like you need to hide the fact your scum by saying you're town.

Pushed same as me. A lot of these will be me pointing out why I found X about a person until I get to somebody I haven't done.

68

I was merely replying to a statement.

Slightly scummy: tn5421

Just what about tn do you find slightly scummy? Personally I think he has valid points and your post could easily be confused for trying to get the PR's to claim.

Not seeing his claim of trying to get PR's to claim.

I already had my suspicions that he was macho doctor to be totally honest with the way he was cop hunting. Either Doctor or Mafia, there was just a higher statistical chance of him being mafia (3 Mafia, 2 doctors). Either way it was bad for him to post who he thought the cop was, so it fit for both.

UNVOTE:

I shall have to look over everything again. Although claiming doctor in this scenario does seem a bit suspicious to my eyes, especially the way he did it. But I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.

It didn't seem like he thought he was doc. But he is analyzing, producing content.

The quickhammer came out of left field, I won't be putting anyone else at L-1 as long as awestfie is still alive now that I know she's the kind of person to make people go splat.

VOTE: tn5421

You put him at L1 but didn't expect anyone to lynch him? Honestly it kind of looks to me like you put him at L-1 HOPING someone would quick lynch him, then now you try and claim that it came out of left field, seems fishy to me.

He purposefully put Thomas on L-1. Now he claims that he wasn't expecting anyone to quickhammer, but if you put someone at L-1 then they'll either be hammered or not. Now he says that he wont put anyone else at L-1 because of what awe did. Have a look at p5955218 and then p5960137 he claims that he agrees with awe's quickhammer, then the instant Thomas shows as town he does a complete 180 and says that quickhammering Thomas was bad. Just seems very fishy to me, like he planned it.

There are three possabilities for this

#1 - Tn is scum and was hoping for a quick-hammer on Thomas to get the mislynch.
#2 - Both Tn and awe are scum and saw an oppotunity to work together to get the quicklynch on Thomas, and then Tn voting awe and awe voting Tn be a form of distancing/bussing to hide this.
#3 - Tn and awe are town but made the mistake of putting him on L-1 and hammering respectively.

As long as option 1 and 2 remain a possability then my vote will stay.

Tn:
229 and 273: Putting Thomas to L-1 without any stated reason, and then blaming awe for quick-hammering after it became obvious that she will be under pressure for doing that. I think when several people stated suspicions on himself (like when i told i will iso him, and awe voted him), he decided to push the wagon on Thomas.
254: Wow, this post is scummy as hell. Voting somebody that you don't believe to be scum. Gotta be kidding.
301: Refusing to defend himself deliberately, trying to be low-profile. Why would a townie do that?

Awe shouldn't have quickhammered then, I was more interested in information.
Anti-Town is one step away from scum.
Because I fucking feel like it.

You were more interested in information, and yet you made no effort to actually get that information from Thomas before the lynch went down, why?

Made a good case against tn. Not the first, but a good case.

I just realized after looking for quotes that my reads were horrible and I should burn them. I'll get away from that for now. Sorry for the delay wicked, yes I believe he is mafia, or at least likely to be. My suspicion of him is very strong. Don't like his play at all.

@Marcrell, why don't you vote? I see no votes in your iso, or do i miss something?

And also could you please give your reads on other people than the ones you mentioned in 399?

I thought I did, but only the one for Stabsinthe, and we all know how that turned out... VOTE: Randomidget
As for reads, I realized all of mine were complete shit and I should give up on them. I'll get you them by the end of the day. For now, I used to think tn was scum, but I'm starting to think shitty town. More later.

awest, are you willing to vote Shaded?

MARCRELL, WHAT'S YOUR READ ON SHADED RIGHT NOW?

Mod: Given that we've had two slots replaced and I was on a long V/LA (and we make up half the player list), would it be possible for us to have a little extra time for today?

Leaning scum. He's done ok, but I don't like his case against you now, and this post:

Marcrell I am pretty sure you are town, so can we persuade you for a tn vote if the deadline approaches? Egg, me, awe and Arma (no idea what boonskies is doing) have pretty solid scum reads for tn here.

struck me as suspicious. I've seen scum do very similar things to people who seem inexperienced to then manipulate them to their side. Lost a lylo that way once(off-site).

Ugg, I guess there isn't any way to get out of this anymore :(....

Wicked, if you are town like you say you are, you just narrowed down the pool of potential candidates and I am likely to be killed anyway, so there really isn't any point to theory discussions although I would have much rather stayed under the radar.

I am the Macho Doc and I protected Wicked last night.

I wasn't sure if I was going to do this today, but you've forced my hand. I'm the macho doc, this guy is scum. Coincidentally, I actually did protect Wickedjsrt last night. Awestfie night 1, Ragnarok night 2, forgot about the game night 3 and didn't protect anybody.

I'm fairly sure he thought Titus/Randomidget was his partner. It's been said, but hammer was bad, reasoning is bad, Shaded should probably die soon.

What part of my reasoning you found "bad"? It was quite a rational choice from my perspective.

Town shouldn't quick-hammer without a claim. Doing it out of self-preservation is scum-motivated. Everybody wants to stay alive, but town shouldn't make horrible plays to avoid it. Unless we're lynching you and that lynch will lose the game, hammering somebody early is horrible town play, and very scum-motivated.

I just realized if wicked is scum awe is not (because they would hammer Marcrell and win)

Awe you should really start trusting me because i think your worst nightmare is true. It is either Wicked & Pro or Wicked & Marcrell. Which one do you think is more probable?

This looks pretty shitty. Desperate attempt to get one person on your side.
Meanwhile Prohawk is saying he was conf town. He claimed when I wasn't on and then got credit for it. Why would I cc when people are town-reading his claim if I'm scum? Prohawk, could you list who you protected every noght, not just last night's?

Don't have time to comment on any of this, right now; I'll check back in a few hours and if not, later in the night. Feel free to comment on any of it, Wicked; if you come around before I do.

[awestfie]

Shaded's interaction with X/Y:

Day 1

Anyone votes for stabsinthe at this stage will hurt our efforts on scumhunting.

I will reread Thomas and Marcrell and try to post a detailed analysis when i find more time.

idk egg is town but randomidget is scum

Unvote, Vote: randomidget

You got me, there is no way I can defend against this.
This ladies and gentlemen, is OMGUS at its finest.

This looks like bussing to me. Where is the Thomas's argument?. And why randommidget is counterreacting like this when it is totally unneeded. The whole looks like fabricated. Considering the Thomas's lack of geniune scumunting and some wierd posts like 204:

VOTE: Thomas

and i am watching randommidget as a possible scum-mate.

Marcrell's ISO looks null to me. I really do not understand the case against him.

I will check tn when meat-world allows it.

Day 2

i will reread the whole thread focusing on tn and randommidget. Also i will check marcrell to clarify wickeds question.
ragnarok, kodama, egg and wicked are all strong town reads.
unsure about yankee and arma, they may just happen to be townie lurkers or may turn out to be scum.
awe may go both way, but we should leave her for today imo.

What don't you understand?

I will try to explain by quoting your reasons:

I apologize for not explaining my vote immediately. It was 1:34 am and I just had to get to sleep.

Reasons why I voted for Marcrell;
-It does not seem like he actually has an interest in figuring out who the mafia are. He has voted his suspect and provided several other reads, however, he has not asked anyone any questions, has done nothing to really strengthen any of his reads. You'd think that he'd want to learn more about the guy he's voting at least. But I guess he doesn't.

This is true, but not indicative. We have many players that does not seem to scumhunt properly like Arma, Yankee, random, and even egg (although i read him strongly town).

-I have issue with Marcrell's vote for Stabsinthe. Stabsinthe is clearly pretty inexperienced, so the vote looks really easy. If Stabsinthe is town, then there is no difficulty for scum to vote him for such obvious/basic reasoning. I get the impression that Marcrell voted Stabsinthe because it was the easiest option. Now Marcrell has revealed that his suspicion of Stabsinthe has weakened, however, his vote remains. This seems like a minor fence sit - he has left open all of his options (keep vote on Stabsinthe or switch his vote). It looks like he's given himself room to switch his vote as soon as he notices the momentum switching. But the vote is still there in case others decide to join the wagon.

I agree with this, but he may as well considering his options and trying to read other posts while doing this. Very minor scum-tell.

-It seems like his reads are designed to bother as few people as possible. His three townish reads on Kodama, Shaded, and Egg are all popular town reads iirc. I don't think anyone has town read randommidget yet, but he has been questioned. Marcrell thinks randommidget is 'odd' for the same reason that he was questioned. 'Odd' is a fence sit word - he could say that randommidget is suspicious for the 'odd' behavior or he could say that the 'odd' behavior is odd and just odd (I have seen that before). He hasn't taken a stance yet. I can't help but think that he's waiting to see what the popular stance is before he decides his.

This looks like a behaviour of an inexperienced player. They almost always tend to follow popular opinions. Not a scum-tell for me. Also i saw many townies use the word 'odd'. Even i have used it in this game. Again, not a scum-tell for me.

Conclusion: Considering his total acceptance of your reasons and VI-like posts & defence, i would tell he is null.

tn & random's analysis will follow.

I am glad wicked dropped his case against Marcell. But a detailed analysis of all players would be appreciated from Marcell to allow us a better read. He still stays at my null-list.

I scumread both tn and random, for the time being my vote stays on tn as my gut says awes is right.

Kodama's change of play from first day also concerns me. He was very townish at Day 1, yet he contributed zero today, plus posting conflicting one liners.
If it had been a cult game, i would have said he has been recruited last night. 313 and 350 are totally out of context that looks like trying to divert the attention of us.

He is either trying to protect one of his pressured scummates which i think in {random, tn}, or it is just a discoordination between his hydra heads.
That's why i do not like playing with hydras. If the head's playstyles are different, when one head vanishes temporarily, playstyle changes completely and confuses the town.

@Marcell: why did you ignore my request?

I am glad wicked dropped his case against Marcell. But a detailed analysis of all players would be appreciated from Marcell to allow us a better read. He still stays at my null-list.

I hope this was worth the wait folks! A detailed analysis!
Armageddon: In most posts he explains his votes, asks questions, gives reasons. Much decent content. A few suspicious bumps along the way, but overall he is Town leaning.
Awestfie: Lots of questions, stimulating conversation, more hunting. I worded my earlier post badly, I meant in the same way in Thomas as you're going very hard for a lynch as soon as possible on tn today and the quickhammer on Thomas yesterday. Seems very motivated to lynch those he scumreads. Town lean.
I really regret coming on now, so tireeeedddd.
Boonskiies/TheYankeeReaper: Null. Barely any posts, not enough to go on.
Egg: His posts have content. Lots. I think especially today, after he started analyzing the lynch, he has the post numbers and analysis. Town. So definitely.
Guys, it's 12 A.M., I can't do this anymore. I'll give you the rest tomorrow, I just can't take anymore of this.

I really did not like this post. It looks artificial.

I do not see Arma's decent content. I do not see stimulating conversation from awes. Boonskiies read is just empty that looks like used for space filling. Egg is a popular town read.

What are your thoughts on other players? Wicked, me, tn, Kodama, random?

where is kodama? needs a prod?

@Marcrell, why don't you vote? I see no votes in your iso, or do i miss something?

And also could you please give your reads on other people than the ones you mentioned in 399?

Ladies and gentelemen, we have to understand that somebody have to comprimise and be content with their second best scum choice.
Or we will seriously hit that no-lynch barrier.

Any proposals?

P.S. And where the hell is Kodama.

Marcrell I am pretty sure you are town, so can we persuade you for a tn vote if the deadline approaches? Egg, me, awe and Arma (no idea what boonskies is doing) have pretty solid scum reads for tn here.

Day 3

I am back. A quick read reveals me that Catastrophe is right. Post 49 = cop guilty. No point discussing it. We should concentrate on the possible scum partners of Arma.

As a side note i have to say that i did not like wicked's position on this. 489, 492 and 493 looks like a distraction attempt by emphasizing a town-result rather than an obvious guilty-result. It is noteworthy that he does not mention Rag's 272 until catastrophe points out that.

I was reading wicked as a strong town, and i know most of players was the same, but two consecutive mislynches tells me that we are misreading one of our strong town reads. It can be egg or wicked, more on this will follow after i iso them.

VOTE: Armageddon

And anybody that does not vote for Arma, or try to distract town from this lynch is a scum-candidate for me.

Full iso's will follow when i get home.

@Mod:

Kodama did not post for a loong looong time and he was not V/LA. Can you just prod/replace/bark to him?
Possibly randommidget too.

Day 4

Cool, at least we got one mafia down.

@Mod

I do support replacement of Kodama.

Didn't get to finish all the analysis I planned to do, but glad to wake up to a self hammering scum.

Catastrophe, after rethinking, you might be right. I would have claimed the guilty if I were in Ragnarok's position because I think that one maf for one cop is worth it. But by the looks of it, Ragnarok has never been cop before and only has two completed games under his belt - he either didn't know what to do or his strategy differs. Armageddon flipping mafia strengthens the theory that Ragnarok guiltied him. I am now comfortable making that assumption.

I am growing more confident in my Shaded suspicion and would love to see him lynched tomorrow. He makes sense as Armageddon's partner.

Plus, post 520 is a scum post. It looks like he knows Armageddon is mafia.

As a side note i have to say that i did not like wicked's position on this. 489, 492 and 493 looks like a distraction attempt by emphasizing a town-result rather than an obvious guilty-result. It is noteworthy that he does not mention Rag's 272 until catastrophe points out that.

This is a misrep. I was not emphasizing a town-result, I just thought that Ragnarok had investigated somebody else. If Ragnarok had gotten a town-result on Armageddon, then obviously he wouldn't have voted him yesterday. And I already said that I thought Armageddon was mafia regardless of Ragnarok's investigation choice - I voted Armageddon yesterday and expressed intent to vote him today. I didn't mention post 272 despite noticing it, because it was contrary to what I believed at the time and I didn't think it was very telling - there was no reason for me to mention it.

I was reading wicked as a strong town, and i know most of players was the same, but two consecutive mislynches tells me that we are misreading one of our strong town reads. It can be egg or wicked, more on this will follow after i iso them.

This is bad logic. Firstly, I was opposed to both lynches so not sure how the fact that we mislynched twice would indicate that I'm scum. Yesterday, I made 5-10 posts arguing that we shouldn't have voted tn. Secondly, Egg voted Thomas and tn, but his vote for tn was for the exact same reasoning as your's - that he thought awestfie was a cop with a guilty. Thirdly, you were on both mislynch bandwagons so it is weird that you would say this.

It was very obvious that Ragna got a guilty result on Arma, and claiming that it was not is either a scum distraction or a bad town play. "Hey look he acts like he know the scum", is not a valid defense. We all act on our viewpoints, and he was conf-scum to me. If we follow your logic, than Catastrophe is scum too, because he pointed that Arma is conf-scum in his post 526. Try again.

And for the second part, please point out where i told that you were on the mislynch wagons. I was telling that, if we mislynched two times, than we may be looking at wrong directions, thus being manipulated by scum either on-wagons or off-wagons. You and Egg was the two popular town reads, so it worths looking at you. I saw many scum defending the mislynch candidate to gain town credits. And you may be one of them.

Here he points out the Shaded was on both lynches. He says that he previously thought Shaded was the cop. Scum could be trying to put out a fire before it starts. Haven't gathered much about Shaded with a glance through his ISO, will look in more detail,

I think it is an attempt from scum to make me appear more suspicious. I know this is WIFOM but why should i kill Egg if i had been the scum, it would be too obvious with that recent post. I have a bad feeling that i have been chosen as the mislynch candidate of today by scum. Once again i request everyone to ISO wicked, especially the last day's play was hyper-suspicious.

-OMGUS, coincidentally I'm your top suspect just two/three days after I express intent to vote for you.

This is a lie. I am the one that expressed suspicions on you first at 520. As soon as i posted this, i became your primary suspect (528) You are the one that OMGUS'ed me.

You tried to save Armageddon. You tried to convince town that Ragna did not have a guilty on Arma, claimed he got an innocent result while it was obvious that was not the case. I won't let you get away with that.

Day 5

I still think wicked should be the scum, although i was wrong about his partner.

Lets hear your candidate #2.

It was awe. But since we have narrowed down the possible scum list, I have to check interactions again. But i can assure everyone that Shaded/Marcrell team is wrong, because i am town.

Btw, i am pretty happy how everyone turned out to be open-minded, i was expecting to be quicklynched after my failed gambit.

I'm fairly sure he thought Titus/Randomidget was his partner. It's been said, but hammer was bad, reasoning is bad, Shaded should probably die soon.

What part of my reasoning you found "bad"? It was quite a rational choice from my perspective.

WTF. That was unexpected.

So we know one of [Marcrell, Prohawk] is scum. And we know {prohawk,awe} is not possible. Not bad.

I think it can be Marcrell & Wicked especially for the "whoops i forgot somebody could hammer" post of wicked. I really do not see how wicked can forget that and vote for Marcrell.

Prohawk & wicked and marcrell & awe are quite possible too, but i have to look at the interactions deeply.

Shaded you missed my question from before; Is it more likely that Marcrell is mafia or ProHawk?

I was leaning towards you & Marcrell, but after this last page of interactions i now lean towards you & Prohawk.
My nose smells bussing here.

Awe you and me are the key here. Please hear my voice.

[awestfie]

At a quick glance, I'd say Marcrell is likely scum here; but it's not because I'm town-reading ProHawk at all; matter of fact, I don't even have a solid read on him due to the fact that he replaced very late and Kodama had next to no content.

[awestfie]

Think most of the interactions that Shaded and Marcrell had together seemed overly forced, especially the Shaded -> Marcrell ones.

Thing that bothers me is how Marcrell said he didn't save anyone that one night (night 3?); think he would fake that as scum, Wicked? Don't know how likely it is that scum would try and pull something like that off. Marcrell could've just said he saved someone and looked okay, why would he say he wasn't around to save anyone? Only logical thing I can think about is if he actually was V/LA and didn't have any input on the night-kill that night and he said he didn't save anyone to match up with that due to his inactivity.

[awestfie]

Oh, you already did a Shaded interaction with X/Y post, my bad. Gonna read it more throughout in an hour or so when I have more time.

[awestfie]

I'm sorry as well, I've been busy for the last couple of days and never actually got to follow up on the things that I wanted to follow up on.

Very likely that I'll follow up on those things today,

[awestfie]

I'll be around in like 10 minutes, if you're still going to be here Wicked. Let me know if you want to talk about something with I.

[awestfie]

Sorry, still here?

[awestfie]

Wicked:

What do you think about Marcrell not saving anyone on night 3?
   - Do you think he would fake that, as mafia?

Also, I think the fact that the Kodama replaced so early in the game with a huge lack of activity is a huge scum-tell; and that's the thing that's bothering me the most about ProHawk. I've said this before: "Pieguyn is still around on the site and the one that went inactive seems to be Displaced; while I don't think this changes all that much, just keep in mind that: one head of the hydra has been around and didn't post at all during that time." This was before Kodama was replaced but during the time they weren't postig here. So, Displaced was the one who went missing and not Pieguyn, but it would make sense that Pieguyn wouldn't post during that time since it would easily match up with the meta-read on her that states that she clearly doesn't like being scum.

[awestfie]

...was before Kodama was replaced but during the time they weren't postig here...

Posting*

And, I'll agree with you that the interactions from Marcrell to the two other scum-buddies, especially Shaded, looks bad. Honestly, to me the interactions that Shaded/Marcrell had felt artificial.

The interactions between Shaded/Marcrell that I thought looked artificial:

End of Day 2

Marcrell I am pretty sure you are town, so can we persuade you for a tn vote if the deadline approaches? Egg, me, awe and Arma (no idea what boonskies is doing) have pretty solid scum reads for tn here.

I can hammer, if you so desire. I thought another day of attempted discussion was a good idea. How long until deadline?

We have two days left. I don't think our lurkers will return in the mean time. And nobody is putting forward new reads/ideas. I am perfectly content with tn lynch.
You may hammer anytime before the deadline, just make it sure we don't hit a no-lynch.

VOTE: tn5421 Hell, guess this was the inevitable conclusion of today. Tomorrow, I'll be very interested in what Boonskies does tomorrow, and if tn flips town, that will add whole new reads to the game.

Start of Day 3

awest, are you willing to vote Shaded?

MARCRELL, WHAT'S YOUR READ ON SHADED RIGHT NOW?

Mod: Given that we've had two slots replaced and I was on a long V/LA (and we make up half the player list), would it be possible for us to have a little extra time for today?

Leaning scum. He's done ok, but I don't like his case against you now, and this post:

Marcrell I am pretty sure you are town, so can we persuade you for a tn vote if the deadline approaches? Egg, me, awe and Arma (no idea what boonskies is doing) have pretty solid scum reads for tn here.

struck me as suspicious. I've seen scum do very similar things to people who seem inexperienced to then manipulate them to their side. Lost a lylo that way once(off-site).

The interactions at the end of day 2 really don't feel natural upon re-reading them; I don't know if it's just me. And, if something stuck you as suspicious, why didn't you point it out right away? It's not like you had five minutes to hammer; there was still a good chunk of time left on day 2. I find it odd that, after hammering, you only pointed it out on the next day.

And upon re-reading, I really don't like this:

Awestfie could be scum heavy bussing, using his strong vote on tn for credit. But he was the same way with Thomas, so there is the possibility he's playing like that this game.

Marcrell was trying to keep all possibilities open, which to me is a scum-tell. It's a really inefficient way of scum-hunting.

[awestfie]

Honestly, my initial read going into this day was ProHawk as scum and I know he's going to "laugh" at me for saying this since he thinks this game is so "easy." But at this point I'm really unsure; I feel like most things are pointing towards Marcrell, but the replacement from Kodama and the confidence from ProHawk is what's bothering me.

[awestfie]

Have to point this out, by the way:

You should vote for Egg instead.

Nah.

What, is he your scum partner or something?

Nah.

You are.

If you remove the word scum in that, I did pretty much call it on day 1; since we are technically partners here.

P-Edit: Cool, you're still here. I thought you left because of how long I took to post.

Honestly, Shaded could've just buddied with Marcrell a lot, in an attempt to make it look like they're partners, since he probably saw that Marcrell would've been the easy lynch today; which is why I think ProHawk could potentially be confident here. Then again, I think he'd be confident here if Marcrell was scum for the same reasons; so both of these sort of null each other out.

I honestly can't make up my mind on who is scum here and hopefully that will change soon. I really don't like how Kodama was replaced and that's the only thing bothering me. Had they had more content before being replaced then; I wouldn't mind, but they didn't.

[awestfie]

Also, I was there during that whole time after you voted Shaded until to the point where I hammered, because I was planning to hammer. One thing that struck me as odd was; ProHawk took a long time to vote him despite saying he was ready to vote him.

I am ready to put Shaded at L-1, but we need our protection details please so he can't self-hammer.

VOTE: Shaded

I just don't like how there was a 55 minutes gap between these two posts when we gave him the protection details right after he posted.

[awestfie]

Yeah, that's okay; I've to leave now, so. We've a decent amount of time to make a decision and I'd personally not like to rush it due to how unsure I seem to be; although I'm not saying we should delay it too much for that reason. I'll be more active than I've been in the last few days from now on; it's just been a rough week for me, that's all. I hope to see Marcrell/ProHawk's thoughts on all of this by the next time I come to visit this thread.

I'll be back in around five to six hours.

P-Edit: The biggest thing that I don't like between Shaded/Marcrell is the fact that Shaded randomly was confident that Marcrell was town in post 453. He never really voiced that town-read out-loud before stating that and he was just constantly pushing him to out and update his reads in the previous posts.

i will reread the whole thread focusing on tn and randommidget. Also i will check marcrell to clarify wickeds question.
ragnarok, kodama, egg and wicked are all strong town reads.
unsure about yankee and arma, they may just happen to be townie lurkers or may turn out to be scum.
awe may go both way, but we should leave her for today imo.

This was the only thing he said about Marcrell about reads prior to the "random town-read." Actually, no; I take that back:

What don't you understand?

I will try to explain by quoting your reasons:

I apologize for not explaining my vote immediately. It was 1:34 am and I just had to get to sleep.

Reasons why I voted for Marcrell;
-It does not seem like he actually has an interest in figuring out who the mafia are. He has voted his suspect and provided several other reads, however, he has not asked anyone any questions, has done nothing to really strengthen any of his reads. You'd think that he'd want to learn more about the guy he's voting at least. But I guess he doesn't.

This is true, but not indicative. We have many players that does not seem to scumhunt properly like Arma, Yankee, random, and even egg (although i read him strongly town).

-I have issue with Marcrell's vote for Stabsinthe. Stabsinthe is clearly pretty inexperienced, so the vote looks really easy. If Stabsinthe is town, then there is no difficulty for scum to vote him for such obvious/basic reasoning. I get the impression that Marcrell voted Stabsinthe because it was the easiest option. Now Marcrell has revealed that his suspicion of Stabsinthe has weakened, however, his vote remains. This seems like a minor fence sit - he has left open all of his options (keep vote on Stabsinthe or switch his vote). It looks like he's given himself room to switch his vote as soon as he notices the momentum switching. But the vote is still there in case others decide to join the wagon.

I agree with this, but he may as well considering his options and trying to read other posts while doing this. Very minor scum-tell.

-It seems like his reads are designed to bother as few people as possible. His three townish reads on Kodama, Shaded, and Egg are all popular town reads iirc. I don't think anyone has town read randommidget yet, but he has been questioned. Marcrell thinks randommidget is 'odd' for the same reason that he was questioned. 'Odd' is a fence sit word - he could say that randommidget is suspicious for the 'odd' behavior or he could say that the 'odd' behavior is odd and just odd (I have seen that before). He hasn't taken a stance yet. I can't help but think that he's waiting to see what the popular stance is before he decides his.

This looks like a behaviour of an inexperienced player. They almost always tend to follow popular opinions. Not a scum-tell for me. Also i saw many townies use the word 'odd'. Even i have used it in this game. Again, not a scum-tell for me.

Conclusion: Considering his total acceptance of your reasons and VI-like posts & defence, i would tell he is null.

tn & random's analysis will follow.

He calls him null here and the posts after this one that are towards Marcrell are:

I am glad wicked dropped his case against Marcell. But a detailed analysis of all players would be appreciated from Marcell to allow us a better read. He still stays at my null-list.

I scumread both tn and random, for the time being my vote stays on tn as my gut says awes is right.

@Marcell: why did you ignore my request?

I am glad wicked dropped his case against Marcell. But a detailed analysis of all players would be appreciated from Marcell to allow us a better read. He still stays at my null-list.

I hope this was worth the wait folks! A detailed analysis!
Armageddon: In most posts he explains his votes, asks questions, gives reasons. Much decent content. A few suspicious bumps along the way, but overall he is Town leaning.
Awestfie: Lots of questions, stimulating conversation, more hunting. I worded my earlier post badly, I meant in the same way in Thomas as you're going very hard for a lynch as soon as possible on tn today and the quickhammer on Thomas yesterday. Seems very motivated to lynch those he scumreads. Town lean.
I really regret coming on now, so tireeeedddd.
Boonskiies/TheYankeeReaper: Null. Barely any posts, not enough to go on.
Egg: His posts have content. Lots. I think especially today, after he started analyzing the lynch, he has the post numbers and analysis. Town. So definitely.
Guys, it's 12 A.M., I can't do this anymore. I'll give you the rest tomorrow, I just can't take anymore of this.

I really did not like this post. It looks artificial.

I do not see Arma's decent content. I do not see stimulating conversation from awes. Boonskiies read is just empty that looks like used for space filling. Egg is a popular town read.

What are your thoughts on other players? Wicked, me, tn, Kodama, random?

@Marcrell, why don't you vote? I see no votes in your iso, or do i miss something?

And also could you please give your reads on other people than the ones you mentioned in 399?

Sigh, upon re-reading that we should REALLY have lynched Shaded way earlier. This doesn't even make any sense, he states that his post is artificial yet randomly he town-reads him a few posts later.

[awestfie]

There's no natural transition between Shaded calling Marcrell null to him calling him town. If you read the last four quotes, that's what made Shaded go from null to town for Marcrell; it makes absolutely no sense.

[awestfie]

I've to go now, I'll be back in around five to six hours. Hopefully there will be new posts from ProHawk/Marcrell regarding all of this.

[awestfie]

Sigh. I've really not had much time for this game, recently. I'll try my best to catch up today. I've to say that I'm leaning towards Marcrell being scum here as well.

[awestfie]

Sigh. I've really not had much time for this game, recently. I'll try my best to catch up today. I've to say that I'm leaning towards Marcrell being scum here as well.

I've not really*

Didn't mean to press submit.

Anyways, the thing that's bothering me the most about Marcrell is the fact that most of the interactions he had with Shaded (and the other way around) just seem overly artificial and I frankly don't see them as non-partner interactions. Shaded's read on him just felt unnatural and I don't think he'd out a read like that if Marcrell wasn't his partner because had Marcrell questioned it and looked into it; he could've easily seen Shaded was faking that read and that's something Marcrell didn't do.

If I had to break town a few things..

1. He stated that he saved no one on night 3 which; I doubt scum would do. I very likely think scum would just say they saved someone who didn't die. He also said he saved Ragnarok on the night that Ragnarok died; again, I really don't see scum stating that instead of just saying he saved someone else.

Town-tell

.

2. The interactions between him and Shaded at the end of day 2 just seemed overly artificial and Marcrell found it odd that Shaded town-read him randomly yet he didn't point it out until the next day despite there being 2 days left on that day. If you had a concern about his town-read on you, why wouldn't you question it before hammering?

Scum-tell

.

3. Lack of posting (I don't think this means all that much, but he has been here since the start and already ProHawk has more posts than him) and actually just a lack of outing reads; Marcrell never really outed many reads and when he did there never really was much reasoning behind them. It felt like most time he outed reads was because he was pressured into it and not because he actually wanted to do it. To me, this looks like someone who didn't want to scum-hunt at all.

Null leaning scum-tell

.

Continuation of 3: Marcrell said before that he was hesitant to post some things in the fear of being night killed and never I, as town, was hesitant to post anything. As town you'd be more than willing to out your opinion to the other people in the game as it helps them read you easier; even if you think your reads and/or thoughts are bad. I'm personally not hesitant to post anything as scum, but I could see why someone would be.

I understand that some people don't post all that much because they'd rather just say things when they feel like saying them; which is why I don't think it's a pure scum-tell. It really just boils down to how you play; I just felt like most of his reads were weak and that there was never really good reasoning behind them. Matter of fact, some of his town-reads were because those players had "good posts" but Marcrell never pointed us to those "good posts."

I'd love to continue up on this, but; I've to go now.

[awestfie]

I don't really have much to say here... I'd like to get this over with, but I'm worried we're going to lose when we do. It will probably be my fault if we lose. I really wish Kodama had been more active. But his inactivity might just win him the game.

Why did you wait till day 3 to point out how you didn't like Shaded's town-read on you?

(Read:

End of Day 2

Marcrell I am pretty sure you are town, so can we persuade you for a tn vote if the deadline approaches? Egg, me, awe and Arma (no idea what boonskies is doing) have pretty solid scum reads for tn here.

I can hammer, if you so desire. I thought another day of attempted discussion was a good idea. How long until deadline?

We have two days left. I don't think our lurkers will return in the mean time. And nobody is putting forward new reads/ideas. I am perfectly content with tn lynch.
You may hammer anytime before the deadline, just make it sure we don't hit a no-lynch.

VOTE: tn5421 Hell, guess this was the inevitable conclusion of today. Tomorrow, I'll be very interested in what Boonskies does tomorrow, and if tn flips town, that will add whole new reads to the game.

Start of Day 3

awest, are you willing to vote Shaded?

MARCRELL, WHAT'S YOUR READ ON SHADED RIGHT NOW?

Mod: Given that we've had two slots replaced and I was on a long V/LA (and we make up half the player list), would it be possible for us to have a little extra time for today?

Leaning scum. He's done ok, but I don't like his case against you now, and this post:

Marcrell I am pretty sure you are town, so can we persuade you for a tn vote if the deadline approaches? Egg, me, awe and Arma (no idea what boonskies is doing) have pretty solid scum reads for tn here.

struck me as suspicious. I've seen scum do very similar things to people who seem inexperienced to then manipulate them to their side. Lost a lylo that way once(off-site).

Matter of fact, you didn't point it out until someone asked you what your read on Shaded was. Why is that?

[awestfie]

I don't care about Kodama's inactivity and replacement. It's lame and annoying but I'm not using it as a scum or town tell, at this point.

I just want you to finally answer some things, Marcrell; you've not voiced yourself all this much this entire game and you've been here for as long as I have.

[awestfie]

Hey, I'm only going to be here for like five to ten minutes, want me to throw a vote up or would you rather not have me do so? Even if you aren't sure about hammering now or later; it doesn't hurt for me to vote the person who you think is most likely to flip scum here since you can hammer whenever you feel.

Still leaning towards Marcrell being scum, for the record.

[awestfie]

Never mind, friend isn't coming over. I'm here, I guess.

Responding to your question now, Wicked.

P-Edit: and going to read what Marcrell just posted, give me 2-5 minutes.

[awestfie]

Are you willing to lynch Marcrell right now?

Here's why I think he's scum and feel free to agree and disagree with me.

A) Post 383. Scum tends to be the one one who tries and keep all possibilities open and not town; it's one of the most inefficient way of scum hunting and that post just seemed like a way to potentially out a scum read on me later, but even if he decided not to do so it wouldn't look all that "bad."

B) Hesitating to post things in the fear of being night-killed. I honestly don't buy it, here's why: even I, as scum, if I knew Marcrell was the doctor; I still wouldn't have killed him because he was one of the least town person; what would benefit me in killing him? Nothing. I don't see why Marcrell hesitated to post some things when he knew that he wouldn't be night-killed ever and that there was much better targets than him. I think someone who's aligned with town should never hesitate to post anything, even as PR, since it makes most of your post look unnatural and ultimately it just makes you look like scum.

C) The interactions between Shaded and Marcrell all look bad. I don't need to repeat myself on this and I think we both heavily agree on this.

...there's one issue I've with ProHawk, I disagree with the fact that he would've had no reason to counter-claim there, as scum. I think him claiming would've been perfect for scum considering letting Marcrell be clear when both Wicked and I had a pro-town game would've been suicide.

What do you think?

[awestfie]

Even if you voted Marcrell here and asked me to hammer him, at this point; I don't think I would do it. And if I would, it wouldn't be instant. I'm not that confident about him being scum and that's what's bothering me. I've said this before and I'll say it again; I'm not much help here since I've a problem with town-reading newbs far too easily, again; no offense, Marcrell.

[awestfie]

Meh.

[awestfie]

Nah, you couldn't have.

[awestfie]

Or, I mean: yeah, you could have. Except you'd be hesitant to do that as scum and you'd just jump on the easy lynch instead aka Titus.

Too bad you didn't get to find out huh?

Too bad; you voted town, that day.

[awestfie]

Nah, what's really too bad is that you requested a tl;dr, put Titus at L-1 and ultimately giving Shaded an easy way out of that day since both Wicked and I suspected him.

[awestfie]

You hadn't even read the game, at that point; yet were confident enough to put someone at L-1 knowing that it would put us into LYLO the next day.

[awestfie]

That's too bad.

[awestfie]

You think I didn't read the game because your hammer was bad? :cool: Riiight.

I don't care what your explanation for the hammer was. It was BAAADDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD (see what I did there?). FYI I read the game when I voted Titus/randomidget. I wasn't voting them to put us into LYLO I was voting them to murder scum. I read the game when I thought you could have been scum for your hammer. It wasn't that long of a game. If you think I am scum put your money where your mouth is and quit pussy-footing around. I am tired of this game. I already know who the last scum is, and there is no scum-hunting that I have to do. It's boring. I have been in this state since the last game day and you guys are dragging this thing out until the last possible second.

I actually wish Kodama would have drawn scum so that I could have driven you into the ground.

giving Shaded an easy way out of that day

LoL, are you insane? This is what conf-scummed him.

Which one of my hammer was bad, the one on Thomas? I still don't see it as bad and Thomas didn't play a town-game at all, feel free to disagree with me, though.

You voted Titus, the town, to murder scum? Who cares, if what Shaded did there confirmed him as scum? It would be much better to just get him lynched right then on that day instead of enabling him to quick-hammer. We're dragging this out till the last second? I'm sure it's really easy for you since all you did was claim doctor and got counter-claimed; you literally had nothing to do this entire game and yet you're still being arrogant.

I really wish you did flip town because the amount of terrible posts you've had outweighs the amount Thomas and tn had; and that's saying a lot. I honestly don't care if you end up winning as scum here; you would of had nothing to do with it and instead Kodama would have given you the free win by replacing out with no content, so who cares.

[awestfie]

"This game is so easy, I just replaced and wow.. you guys are really taking forever to lynch the mafia, can't you see how EASY this game is?"

[awestfie]

Alright, fairly sure ProHawk's town here; think his reactions there were mostly town here and I can see where most of his frustration is coming from. Sorry, if you took it personal, I was trying to get some tells from you; and wanted to see what you would say.

His logic about him being able to not CC and just attempt to have me lynched and keep Titus alive for the next day is accurate considering Titus was voting me and if Shaded was scum with him it would've guaranteed 3 votes on me; the only thing that bothers me about that is that I don't think Wicked would hammer me in that situation, but it's possible that Marcrell would've, if he was town.

Although it would've mostly looked odd that he didn't vote Titus that day, I think he could've easily have set it up to get Titus lynched the next day and just collect his win; Marcrell was FoS'ing Titus' slot and if Marcrell was town in that situation then all Shaded and ProHawk had to do is keep Titus/Marcrell alive for a near-auto-win on the next day.

Wicked?

[awestfie]

Yeah, there's a huge lack of emotion, I found; from Marcrell. Meanwhile, there actually is a genuine frustration coming from ProHawk when I provoke him. I think it's possible that Marcrell is just discouraged at this point and that he sees there's no way he can win this which would match with his lack of emotions in any of his posts; they just feel entirely bland.

[awestfie]

...Marcrell is just discouraged at this point and that he sees there's no way he can win this which would match with his lack of emotions in any of his posts...

To clarify: To me, it looks like Marcrell is discouraged from his recent posts. Most of those recent posts just feel incredibly bland and to me it almost looks like Marcrell gave up, at this point. The problem with this sort of read is: I think Marcrell would potentially feel the same way as town here since he has been called scum for the last 2 (3?) days and I think it'd be normal for anyone, town or mafia, to be discouraged at this point.

P-Edit: I still believe that ProHawk would've claimed doctor here as scum, because he couldn't risk for Marcrell to be doctor here, since it would rise up some suspicion on him, considering the slot he replaced into. I think it would've been silly for ProHawk not to claim here, as scum.

[awestfie]

I'm gonna do a re-read and I'll see how confident I am to hammer, here.