Open 621 (C9++): The ZAR SHOW S1 Holiday Special - OVER!

[Lucky2u]

/confirm

~. Game begins as of this post. ~~.Zar

[Lucky2u]

Shaddowez... Similar to shadows, which is a darkness caused by light, darkness is often associated with evil, and mafia are usually evil...

Half life 3 confirmed
Illuminati confirmed
9/11 was an inside job confirmed

Shaddowez is mafia confirmed.

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: Shaddowez

Forgot the vote part of that RVS post...

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: lucky4you

Its a pet peeve when people mess with my name, Yosemite.

[Lucky2u]

Lucky for being a lurker and not really playing. And yes, I realize the irony in that reasoning, but I get a vibe from him that he's trying to be the casual guy in the corner who drops in every so often to say inoffensive things.

This is fairly accurate. I'm taking a backseat on purpose while the holiday finishes. Sorry, I know that's shitty, but I am following along.

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: lucky4you

Its a pet peeve when people mess with my name, Yosemite.

Ok.

Meanwhile, you just earned another 10 scum points for posting about how I spelled your name wrong while still not actually interacting with the game at all.

Sweet. That's like... A homerun right? Or a touchdown? I don't know how to read the scoreboard.

[Lucky2u]

Oh you guys... This is embarrassing but I didn't get YOU anything for Christmas!

[Lucky2u]

I am at my parents house with nothing but a laptop so.... incoming spam catchup posts.

[Lucky2u]

if i were a dayvig i would shoot you right now

unvote, vote: always innocent

Well, good that you aren't then, because that would be totally reckless.

BTW. Why me, and not KMD?

The "why me and not KMD" part is kind of a scummy misdirection in the response to this threat here.

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: Lucky2u

Found scum.

Let's talk about this vote and why you're ignoring Yos' incorrect statements about your play.

VOTE: Lucky2u

I know that we are still transitioning from RVS to scumhunting, but Lucky2u is playing too minimalistic now even for my taste. I want to see more from him.

What took you so long to vote Lucky? Why wait for somebody else to do it first?

Huh... I didn't catch that when it happened. Thanks BBT, have a cookie. I can safely start scum reading AI now.

[Lucky2u]

Seriously, figuring out who looks townie and then lynching someone who doesn't is the single most effective way to find scum, especially early. People make the mistake of "looking for people doing something scummy", but that's backwards; scum usually look null-ish if they're at all competent. So instead you need to look for people who are doing something townie and then lynch someone who's not.

I completely disagree with this, this seems so backwards but if you truly believe this it should be helpful in understanding your actions. Game theory is not alignment indictive, I know, but I'm almost willing to make an exception for this...

[Lucky2u]

I don't think roflcopter is "super-town" by the way. His strong positions are based on very little. I wouldn't vote for him, but I'm not yet convinced he is town. He threatened to shoot me this early if he were a vigilante, which is just reckless and bad play (if it was a serious and not just to threaten me).

A little context here: rofl is an alt of a long-time poster. He uses the rofl alt when he wants to play with a certain playstyle; hyperagressive, short posts, bloodthirsty without explaining anything, lynches without warning. Basically the "baby jesus" or "internet stranger" playstyle, although probably half of you don't remember those players. And as a playstyle, it works well for him.

In that context, his posts so far look good to me.

I will say, though, that he can play like this as scum just as well, and he's very skilled at it, so while I have a town read on him at the moment, I very easily could be wrong, he is very tricksy.

So he is manipulating his meta so that people excuse him for his behavior even when he is scum. Just great.

I actually agree with this. If rofl has good enough control of his meta to have two completely different metas on two accounts, then you shouldn't be town reading him for his meta ever.

[Lucky2u]

leeloo dallas multipass

hard to believe this is the master of meta...

[Lucky2u]

Never mind Lucky... I found someone better.

UNVOTE: Lucky

VOTE: Albert B.

Albert, come play with us.

I feel like given what was happening the last few posts when you made this vote change (being lolattacked by rofl), this seems like another misdirection. Of course I don't really know how town is suppose to react to rofl, so I'm not focused on this...

[Lucky2u]

In my experence, town usually lose to semi-active scum who fly under the radar. That happens because people focus on attacking people who are loud, aggressive, and obnoxious, while ignoring people who are quiet and only just kind of contributing.

This is very true, I've lost several town games to lurkers. It's... frustrating...

[Lucky2u]

AlwaysInnocent made a very good first impression on me the first time I encountered him. Recently, I'm not seeing the same spark. I invited him to join this game to play with the legends and the pros, but I'm doubting his alignment also. I'm fine with sticking with my Lucky vote for now.

It's way too early to talk about lurking. This isn't a blitz game.

...but isn't your vote on me for lurking? maybe it's not, update me on that please.

[Lucky2u]

I don't want to unvote lucky until he posts some real content. It's a mater of principle; i voted him for lurking, he came in and posted a few times but flatly refused to post content. That does not fly, towns should never let people get away with that.

Ok, I'm back. I'm posting real content. Time to move your vote. Not because I care you're voting me, but because I'd like to see where you go from here...

[Lucky2u]

Wishing people happy holidays. Typically what scum would do to appear town.

What the #&@%! does that have to do with any alignments?!

Just a silly joke. Relax.

I can't tell if Ane actually thought AI was being serious or not... (lol btw AI, cracked me up) If he did, that might have been a scum slip. In my experience, scum lose the ability to recognize jokes while they are attempting to fake being town.

[Lucky2u]

I completely disagree with this, this seems so backwards but if you truly believe this it should be helpful in understanding your actions. Game theory is not alignment indictive, I know, but I'm almost willing to make an exception for this...

You don't think scum look somewhat null in the beginning of the game?

yes, they will, and so will town. this is game theory though, so I'd rather avoid discussing this.

[Lucky2u]

/end of spam

UNVOTE:

@yos I understand reading someone for not caring what everyone thinks, yes that is usually a town trait. However, I disagree with you applying that to ABR. Stating reads with NO explanation is not a town thing to do.

[Lucky2u]

Ummm... there's something I don't understand.
Your vote was on Shadowez, which was an RVS-vote, wasn't it?
You simply unvoted, but you posted nothing about Shadowez at all. You asked Yosarian move his vote from you because you wanted to see where his vote would go. And your vote is nowhere now. Why?

I also didn't post about several other players, what does shadow being my RVS vote have to do with anything? You are aware that the R in RVS means random right?

My vote is nowhere because I could send it in several different directions right now. Gut says AI, paranoia says you, and frustration says ABR. Yos maybe on that list to, I just want to interact with him a bit. Would you like me to throw out a token vote to appease you in the meantime? (you can answer yes, I probably won't do it though)

[Lucky2u]

Seeing as he was once a fence town for you, why not read him as null now? or his lurking an auto scum read for you?

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: alwaysinnocent

nevermind Ane, I'm no longer undecided.

[Lucky2u]

why do I care?

[Lucky2u]

how is it opportunistic?

I asked you a question and you answered with a question about my question. That's scum misdirection. So do you feel like answering now?

[Lucky2u]

oh I'm only asking you to unvote me because you said you would. You left your vote on me because I was being a lurker, which I was. Now that I am back, explain why I am scum or unvote me. I already told you who my scum reads are, read again if you didn't catch it. So who looks most town? For me that question is really, who appears the least scum? That would be BBT right now.

[Lucky2u]

I don't want you to move your vote, I don't really care about that. My concern is that you parked your vote on a player who was a then lurker so you wouldn't have to take a stance on anyone else. Now that I'm here and active, if you truly believe me to be scum then I've achieved my goal. You're not hiding your vote.

[Lucky2u]

well actually albert...

[

Yos

- I can't say I'm a fan of lists since they provide no information, so since you gave one I'll ask about it. What makes Kop null-town but tex null-scum? They've had about the same amount of posts, and neither of them have really said anything groundbreakings.
Are you still voting Lucky because of their lurking, or because you actually think they're more scummy than your only other full scum read, BBT?
What made you change rofl from being "super town" in 151 to "leaning town" in 192?

I don't want to unvote lucky until he posts some real content.

It's a mater of principle; i voted him for lurking

, he came in and posted a few times but flatly refused to post content. That does not fly, towns should never let people get away with that.

Kop and tex are both basically null. I liked Kop's posts slightly more then tex, at least he seemed to be thinking about the game, but nothing major.


ROFL hasnt really changed. He's still probably town. Not quite as sure about him as some others, he can be tricksy, but he looks townish.

I don't know why people are so anti-list. Everyone should make a list, even if you don't share it. It forces you to read every single player in the game, and to try and form an opinion on them, even if it's not based on much.

so how exactly should I have taken that post? hmmm?

[Lucky2u]

I don't agree. If you look at the context, I don't think it's unreasonable at all to not assume that a veteran player is posting something because they are being "stupid". If you want to clear a new player based on the premise of them not understanding a situation, then that's a little more passable, but I don't think it's ridiculous to assume that a veteran player is less likely to play stupidly.

Except when they become overconfident because they are more experienced. It happens all the time. I have seen new players play better than experienced players simply because new players are more self-conscious and do not assume that they are right because of minor things.

I have experianced that exact same thing when I played a newbie game as an SE and me and the IC were scum and got lynched day 1 and 2. However... does that apply here?

[Lucky2u]

If BBT is indeed town, then it is likely that Yosarian is scum.

You seem to be scumreading Yos anyway. Why does BBT being town make Yos scum?

I don't understand this connection either. That logic can work in reverse sometimes, but this doesn't seem to account for a town vs town possibilty.

[Lucky2u]

Lucky doesn't like a vote on him, and thinks by showing he is active that warrants that unvote.

I don't want you to move your vote, I don't really care about that. My concern is that you parked your vote on a player who was a then lurker so you wouldn't have to take a stance on anyone else. Now that I'm here and active,

if you truly believe me to be scum then I've achieved my goal.

You're not hiding your vote.

Am I reading this right, you want to be scum read, is that your goal?

[/quote][/quote]
You're not reading it right. I do not care that the vote was on me. I care that the reason behind the vote was flimsy, I wanted him to either do something real with his vote or express a real reason to keep it on me.

@ABR on this same subject. stating opinions and reads =/= voting people.

[Lucky2u]

Consistency is a scum tell.

I can't tell if this was serious or not...

[Lucky2u]

ok at this point i could lynch either ai or yos today, nostalgia be damned. they're both scum.

How about Yosarian + KMD?

I know town wants to avoid getting lynched but you are REALLY trying to avoid your own lynch. Like it seems to be more of a priority to you then scum hunting.

[Lucky2u]

For one thing, if he was scum, I don't really think he would turn on me like that and vote me when i was the one defending him. That does not seem like something a scum worried about self preservation would do.

so much wifom

is there a second thing? or a third thing?

how is that wifom?

[Lucky2u]

kop... did you read the post you tried to quote? I literally stated my reason. I... I don't know how to make it clearer.

[Lucky2u]

Pulsing hot liquid flows through my outstretched tendrils, sending thrills into my interior.
The moment has come. I swell and burst.
Violent action ensues.

this is some serial killer stuff right here...

I haven't cared about you since our discussion on where'd I put my vote. Don't flatter yourself.

[Lucky2u]

A few general impressions of the game so far...

I've played with ABR a few times and never had any luck reading him. It is remarkable, however, that he's been more vocal in this game than the others put together. I have no idea whether that makes it more or less likely that he's scum. His love affair with Yos makes me nervous though.

I don't understand the whole problem with Yos scum hunting by town hunting. Doesn't everyone do that to some extent? I'm always reluctant to put someone in the town column, because I tend to ignore them and not re-evaluate and they end up scum. But as long as you continue to re-evaluate, I don't see a problem.

I am not getting a town v town vibe from Yos v BBT, but can't put my finger on why. So I'll call it gut.

ABR

, can you explain why you think it is town v town?

AlwaysInnocent

, you've had reads and votes all over the place. Could you give me a summary of your current reads?

if you don't think it's town vs town, then who would the likely scum of the two be?

Part of the problem with AI, and why my vote is still there, is that he is all over the place.

[Lucky2u]

BBT vs Yos is starting to sound like an old married couple...

[Lucky2u]

sorry mod, catching up!

[Lucky2u]

I'm a bit weighed down here, trying to catch up sorry guys.

[Lucky2u]

I'm back wooo! Catching up and posting today.

[Lucky2u]

well I've finally caught up. I forgot the reason I don't join non-micro games is because the pace can be trying for me...

anyway, I'll leave it short and sweet for now, because my head hurts and if I put too much effort into this post my nose will bleed. BBT vs Yos is a waste of time that is still happening, it's town vs town. For those keeping score, yes I am now town reading yos. The best thing to come out of this conversation is that it's pretty obvious both is showing the right amount of paranoia and scum hunting toward what I'm sure they think are scum reads on each other.

I'm confused how people express town reads on ABR when he posts so little content (I know this is the pot calling the kettle black, but I'm not asking you to town read me). At best he should be null.

Anen's post felt like he was most interested in spreading doubt. I'm giving him a scum lean.

Texcat, we haven't had a chance to interact yet. You started to question AI for a bit then dropped it awhile back. What do you think of AI? For the record, my vote is staying where it is on him.

I think with the holidays over I should have a chance at being more active in this game. If I can't start contributing regularly, I'll replace out to give town a shot.

[Lucky2u]

You guys are officially in an isolated vacuum.

[Lucky2u]

Texcat, we haven't had a chance to interact yet. You started to question AI for a bit then dropped it awhile back. What do you think of AI? For the record, my vote is staying where it is on him.

AI is definitely on my possible scum list. But both Kop and BBT have moved ahead of him.

I think it is best for town to resolve BBT v Yos earlier rather than later.

I think that's a bad plan if it is town vs town. We lynch one today and they flip town and then what? If you actually think bbt is scum, you should push the lynch but not because we need to resolve a pissing match.

[Lucky2u]

Fuck this shit.

VOTE: BBT

The case against AI is obvious I feel like the only reason he hasn't been powerlynched is the bbt vs yos showdown.

[Lucky2u]

If AI lives to see tomorrow I'll eat my bunny ears.

[Lucky2u]

I love how whenever anyone indicates a town feeling about AI he always feeds them a treat of encouragement. That's not scum at all.

[Lucky2u]

That's ok, yos and bbt got to have this BS day to themselves, I'll look forward to tomorrow.

[Lucky2u]

Severely disappointed with that fact. It's good he is on the bbt wagon though, it makes tomorrow easier.

[Lucky2u]

Your scummyness is public knowledge

Pedit Omg that scum threat

[Lucky2u]

Your scummyness is public knowledge

Pedit Omg that scum threat

Given we aren't lynching AI today, who are we lynching?

You guys are probably going to lynch bbt. The only positive I see from that is it won't drag that argument into tomorrow.

If you meant to ask me who my next desired wagon would be, between Lowell and ABC.

[Lucky2u]

Unvote, Vote texcat

New wagon

GOGOGO

Huh?

[Lucky2u]

Went into work... Come check in on first break and two pages, Geez... Catching up.

[Lucky2u]

You went from "let's lynch AI" to "let's lynch texcat; she is textbook scum"? You have a shocking amount of open and shut cases ready to go.

Looks like scum going after low hanging fruit in order to prevent scum buddy BBT's lynch.

Low hanging fruit... What? I was nullish until I read this. I can back a texcat wagon if AI won't eat rope today.

[Lucky2u]

You are misunderstanding the direction of my confidence. I'm confident that wasn't a townslip. That doesn't make you scum. Yes, I'm still scumreading you but your recent posts aren't why.

Regardless of the reason(s) you are scumreading me, you are objectively wrong about me.

What are your quick reasons for voting BBT?

Like I said before, it is not so much the tunneling that concerns me, but that he seems to completely neglect everyone else. Yes, he asks them questions, but, as Yosarian pointed out I think, he never follows up on those questions.

He was also very silent about my wagon when I was at L-2, as if he didn't mind that I would be lynched, because he would be able to lynch Yosarian (assuming he is town) the next day.

Part of your scum read on him assumes he is town... Wha??

[Lucky2u]

Oh wait... You meant Yos as town, misread that.

[Lucky2u]

I'm at work and posting off top of my head, atleast I caught myself.

[Lucky2u]

VOTE: texcat

[Lucky2u]

Someone seems to try to find a new mislynch-target desperately...

This thought makes no sense. Are you saying I'm trying to find a new mislynch target in AI even though I've been on the wagon for awhile or are you telling me I need to get off this wagon by saying I'm trying to mislynch him. Grammer. It's important.

Also ABC is ABR. If you couldn't figure that out, you're worse than my auto correcting phone that typed that.

Why did you only point to my vote of texcat and not the post right before it where I indicate my disapproval of his post? I can understand town questioning my read on texcat, but not by misrepping it this badly.

[Lucky2u]

Looks like everyone has Lowell on their compromise lynch list.

When everyone agrees that's not really a good thing.

[Lucky2u]

I know it's terrible but you have to wait until tomorrow. Yet again, unexpected work.

There is no tomorrow. Vote.

[Lucky2u]

lol what is going on?

[Lucky2u]

vote: lucky

What? Like it was any secret I was going to shoot AI? Scum killed ABR and he clearly killed kop. I'm confirmed town at this point unless someone counter claims me. Which would be hilarious to me. This setup is two vigilantes max, and I'm claiming the second.

[Lucky2u]

Also, I'll pour out a 40 Oz on the corner for you ABR my fallen vig brother.

[Lucky2u]

lol, lynch me. My death gets town alot info.

[Lucky2u]

I understand what you are saying yos but I'm not understanding why you are saying it. Help me here. As town, if you are suspicious of me being SK, what motivation do you have to trust me to do this? If I am an SK or if I'm the town vig I claim to be I'm going to agree, and unless I'm the worst SK ever, I'm going to hold my kill. However that just sets me up for a mislynch tomorrow rather than today.

[Lucky2u]

Kmd do you think kop avoided bbt vs yos because they are both town and just wanted to let it happen?

[Lucky2u]

bbt + kmd scum, lucky

vig

gg thanks for playing

FTFY

[Lucky2u]

I understand what you are saying yos but I'm not understanding why you are saying it. Help me here. As town, if you are suspicious of me being SK, what motivation do you have to trust me to do this? If I am an SK or if I'm the town vig I claim to be I'm going to agree, and unless I'm the worst SK ever, I'm going to hold my kill. However that just sets me up for a mislynch tomorrow rather than today.

If you hold your kill, then that helps the town, no matter what your alignment is.

So long as you keep holding your kill, I think it's in the town's advantage to hunt mafia first and then figure you out later. For example, if we lynch 3 mafia members and the game still isn't over, at that point we know you have to be a SK and can lynch you. If there are ever two deaths in a night, then of course we lynch you right away.

There are a lot of ways this could play out, it depends what roles the town has, what kind of scum flips we have (there are only a limited number of possible setups here) and on what else happens, but so long as you can keep it in your pants, I'm willing to wait.

If you're not willing to agree, then frankly I don't care what your alignment is, I'll lynch you anyway, because a rogue vig shooting wildly when it's not the right move will really screw over the town anyway.

Eh, I agree. This feels like being neutered.

[Lucky2u]

It takes 5 to lynch, noone is in danger of being l-1

[Lucky2u]

You went from "let's lynch AI" to "let's lynch texcat; she is textbook scum"? You have a shocking amount of open and shut cases ready to go.

Looks like scum going after

low hanging fruit

in order to prevent scum buddy BBT's lynch.

You had zero votes...

reposting because dead townie texcat was right on the money

Yea no.

Just because they were town doesn't mean they were right. They had zero pressure and no votes. They were not low hanging fruit. Maybe if she had made different choices she'd still be alive.

[Lucky2u]

Lucky - if AI had been lynched instead of texcat, who would you have shot?

Between ABR or one of BBT and Yos to settle that debate.

[Lucky2u]

let's not retread the was she low hanging fruit or not argument again, k? she had zero votes and then two days later she was lynched. so she was an easy enough target obviously.

One has nothing to do with the other. You are being super ignorant today.

[Lucky2u]

This is going to be a short day phase.

Umm, I need like 24 hours to do what I need to do.

K

[Lucky2u]

OK, so Kop's ISO.

461 is unlikely to be a bus so town points for Lowell. 470 makes it likely that Lucky could be scum, typical scum tactic of fos buddy, vote town.

That's pretty much the main part of Kop's ISO which is pretty shitty, he barely interacted with anyone or did anything. It does, however, highlight how much Yos has exaggerated Kop's posting in order to justify his continued vote on me. Yos should be looked at after my lynch.

OK, onto some VCA.

Is this actually suggesting that I'm on the mafia team? If I'm scum from anyone's pov, I'm the SK. My claim is ridiculous if I'm on mafia. It would mean that ABR shot my team mate, I claimed to be a vig for AlwaysInnocent, and at the same time have now covered/hidden the fact that there is a serial killer. Why would I risk my own life to hide the serial killer?

[Lucky2u]

Well atleast we can agree I'm not mafia rofl

Pedit And kmd

[Lucky2u]

Lucky for SK champ 2016

[Lucky2u]

I get the feeling you're just spreading doubt to hopefully get an unvote.

Also this:

Is this actually suggesting that I'm on the mafia team? If I'm scum from anyone's pov, I'm the SK. My claim is ridiculous if I'm on mafia. It would mean that ABR shot my team mate, I claimed to be a vig for AlwaysInnocent, and at the same time have now covered/hidden the fact that there is a serial killer. Why would I risk my own life to hide the serial killer?

Ugh, I keep forgetting there is a SK to deal with as well.

OK, you and Kmd can both be scum after all.

Is off putting. None of the other players forgot this. Do you want to go back and explain my behavior as likely SK vs mafia? They are two wildly different situations, and you can't just brush it off as everything you said also applies if I'm SK.

[Lucky2u]

I don't know how you don't understand the "throw everything against the wall and see if something sticks" strategy. You attack everyone and hope that you get a "Yea he's right about player X! I should be voting them instead!" when you're at L-1 it's the last ditch effort move.

[Lucky2u]

welp now that we've got all those lovely scum thoughts about how scummy everyone is we can get a ====[]

i like lucky the sk i agree with him a lot. good scumhunting sk!

Thanks rofl! Atleast we found a way to get along.

Acryon, why not?

[Lucky2u]

welp now that we've got all those lovely scum thoughts about how scummy everyone is we can get a ====[]

i like lucky the sk i agree with him a lot. good scumhunting sk!

Thanks rofl! Atleast we found a way to get along.

Acryon, why not?

Because the odds of us having a SK are

significantly

higher than us having 2 vig's. So now you've drawn suspicion as our vig, which will get you killed by scum or lynched by town.

That's actually a good point. I'd be shocked if scum didn't kill Lucky tonight, especially if they are down to one member. This isn't exactly bad for town though even if Lucky flips vig because at least we don't have to deal with all of the WIFOM around him that way.

Good job giving scum a reason to leave me alive

[Lucky2u]

thanks much for modding zar! appreciate it!

congrats to Anen, I think you did a good job and I never would have found you.

My biggest question is why I was killed when I had so much suspicion for being SK myself? Maybe this was answered somewhere but I thought I would make better mislynch than night kill.

[Lucky2u]

also sorry AI and Lowell.... I maybe should have shot elsewhere...