Open 622 - Stack the Deck (Game Over)

[Persivul]

VOTE: golden009

For not being in italics.

[Persivul]

Deadline is in 19 days,

Seriously?

[Persivul]

VOTE: Persivul

Here we go.

Considering your typical activity level I'll probably have that vote on me for 2 weeks or so.

[Persivul]

My apologies, this should have been in the day start post:

Kop is a mod confirmed

Innocent Child

So we have an IC that doesn't post...great...

[Persivul]

VOTE: Kop

Way to vote for the IC dipshit

[Persivul]

VOTE: SnarkySnowman

Why so snarky?

If you had frozen balls wouldn't you be snarky?

[Persivul]

Um I'm Canadian and my balls are pretty frozen up here and I'm not snarky.

Since your pronoun is "It" I didn't think you had balls.

[Persivul]

But we better knock it off - some people bitch if you have some fun in RVS...

[Persivul]

Anyone can have balls, Percivul. One for each time they call the landlord to fix the taps.

VOTE: Kop

Voting the IC? WTF??

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ricastle

[Persivul]

I'm gonna read that as null. I find it hard to believe scum would be that oblivious.

Well yeah, I was joking and I presume arma was too.

[Persivul]

No, it's not a habit, I just do it when it's really fucking obvious.

[Persivul]

So hi.
I am caught up and it seems like Persivul is trying to control the Town and micromanage everything. Don't have a strong read yet.
VOTE: Persivul

So far I'm just having some fun. If I do take over town - and sometimes I do - that could be either townie or scummy. You seem to understand that by saying "Don't have a strong read yet." OTOH, you then vote me.

I'm usually only capable of taking over town in newbie games these days. Mario, you might be thinking of Diffusion. But, I've drawn scum so many times since then that no one outside of newbies trusts me anymore.

[Persivul]

Persivul and Mario are both town.

Seems like an overly strong read on Mario considering he had 1 post at that point.

[Persivul]

Can people just invent a reason for voting me, please? RVS when gone wrong brings nothing to the table, as we can see here.

Meh, I'm typically very aggressive D1 and generate a lot of content, but people scum reading me for it lately has dampened my enthusiasm. The whole idea of the game is that an un

inform

ed majority has to generate

information

, but not may people appreciate that fact anymore.

[Persivul]

What are you trying to say here?

That I'm sick of playing hard only to have people call me scum for it, so I'm laying back. I started posting a lot and Mario said I'm trying to control the town and voted me. I'm tired of that bullshit.

[Persivul]

Oh, I know what Kop is.

I was just confused as there didn't seem to be a player with the initials 'IC' in the game. Thanks for clearing that up.

Why in the world did you vote him then?

[Persivul]

Sorry, I have to catch up. I have been busy with New Years and this weekend.

There's 2-1/2 pages of mostly RVS. Catching up would take ten minutes.

[Persivul]

Persivul- Your very active style of play makes you look towny. People are just scared that if you are scum then it will be hard to call you out later with your style of play. Like in the game I played with you before, you made it through the whole game without anyone questioning you as scum at all.

You should ALWAYS want people posting more. Then learn how to read them. You can't (apart from meta) read someone who isn't posting.

[Persivul]

Can people just invent a reason for voting me, please? RVS when gone wrong brings nothing to the table, as we can see here.

What's stopping you from doing the same? It's not like you've really done anything to help us break out of RVS.

Excellent point. He doesn't want to push, he wants to react, which is frequently scummy.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ricastle

[Persivul]

Looks like I was already on him from RVS. The above is serious.

[Persivul]

I've recently played a game with Ricastle in which he explicitly stated that the less involved he was the more his alignment was victorious.

So he admits he's a shitty player? That's different.

[Persivul]

I'm tired of lurkers. Snarky has made 8 posts in other games since his one post here.
UNVOTE: Ricastle
VOTE: Snarky

[Persivul]

Can people just invent a reason for voting me, please? RVS when gone wrong brings nothing to the table, as we can see here.

What's stopping you from doing the same? It's not like you've really done anything to help us break out of RVS.

You haven't done anything to note either.

VOTE: Gendaberry

If we're voting lurkers let's consolidate. Can you vote Snarky?

[Persivul]

All new year prod dodges though.

No, they weren't all prod dodges. I can't link them as they're ongoing games, but people can check for themselves if they want. Why did you lie about this?

[Persivul]

I think you're overthinking "random."

[Persivul]

Mod Notes: Vedith and DoctorDynamo have been prodded

Let's run one of these up just to fuck with them.

VOTE: Vedith

[Persivul]

Come on peoples, let's welcome Vedith with an L-2.

[Persivul]

Ricastle, vote Vedith. (I am taking over and micro-managing now.)

[Persivul]

Mod Notes: Vedith and DoctorDynamo have been prodded

Let's run one of these up

just to fuck with them

.

VOTE: Vedith

No. (I don't like being told what to do without good reason.)

I gave a perfectly good reason.

[Persivul]

Wow, that stick is really wedged firmly in your ass. Have a little fun.

[Persivul]

Armageddon? Welcome vote for Vedith?

[Persivul]

PUMPED. This is my first game in a year or so.

Unfortunately you replaced into a really boring game.

[Persivul]

Unless you think not posting a single time then replacing out is alignment indicative, I don't see the point of voting Vedith given that it looks like he's going to do just that. With how slow this game is already going, wasting votes on someone who won't respond doesn't seem to be the best use of our time.

VOTE: Snarky

His reasoning for the Ricastle vote is pretty bad, so I'm ok with this.

What's bad about the reasoning?

What do you think of the reasoning of someone who votes another for bad reasoning, without explaining why it's bad? Isn't that also bad itself?

You're my only real lean scum at this point.

VOTE: Gendaberry

[Persivul]

Did you look in a mirror?

I knew you were probably fishing for reactions but that felt pretty scummy / not town-motivated to me. Hence the vote.

Same here - when he said he knew that Kop was IC I figured it was a reaction test, but it rubbed me the wrong way. BUT Ricastle seems townie since then, particularly because he's one of a very few people who seem interested in actually moving the game forward.

[Persivul]

jmo is laying down the law.

[Persivul]

I was sincerely applauding your efforts.

[Persivul]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lowell

[Persivul]

Is this better? I didn't realize snarky had so many defenders!

Actually I'm not crazy about either one of you.

Your post calling for a quick lynch feels like scum who just can't relax. This game is moving slowly but there's still 12 days left in phase. Town shouldn't feel any sense of urgency.

[Persivul]

But if you're town, you have no excuses. You won't get absolved later on by saying "Ugh, well, it's his own fault for playing badly."

Fear mongering.

[Persivul]

I'm following, this just seems like the kind of game that isn't going to go anywhere until we get closer to deadline. From that perspective, Lowell seems a little less scummy for wanting a quick lynch.

[Persivul]

@Karnage; Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut if examples were needed why have other people listen to me? How about you read your ISO instead of dismissing my points?

Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut only 2 people out of 9 have actually listened to you and one of them is currently at L-2 so you haven't exacty made a compelling case.

Meh, I'm starting to listen to him.

[Persivul]

ISO notes, ordered least posts to most:

Marcrell - doing as little as the person he replaced

Gendaberry - I read his meta (it's only a few games) and as town he's more confident and aggressive. This game reads like newbscum getting his feet wet.

jmo - town so far, spreading pressure around and trying to get people to participate. Don't like the unvote without a replacement vote on D1.

zulfy - weird entrance - prime minister of Pakistan? Votes Lowell in 182 but says no scumpings, then invents the ping in 183 - supposed to be the other way around there champ. 222 "null on every single player" is bad. Bare vote in 224 with bad explanation once again in the post after the vote.

Snarky - not great analysis, but took some pressure and didn't panic. Need to watch this, but I think he'll be sortable in time.

Armageddon - my eyes kinda glazed over. Meh for now, need to watch this too.

Mario - says I'm trying to control the town and that's understandable from a past game . Not a fan of the tunneling on Karnage, BUT...scum would likely have jumped on Lowell. Seems OK for now.

Karnage - making a BFD out of "random" - not sure if this was just a misunderstanding or if he's grasping fro something to say. WTF's a rubric, aside from the square puzzle that I couldn't even get one side on? Don't like the vote in 128. Don't like the unvote in 161. Don't like the jmo scum read in 214.

Lowell - comment on scum needing to kill the IC was weird. Town read on me and Mario was too early. Unvote in 85 doesn't feel natural. Don't get the "try-hard" bit in 94. Kinda agree with him in 140 - I'm not a fan of most trap setting, think it tends to create false positives (there is one exception). 153 - "BTW I don't actually buy that any of you think I'm scum; you're just trying to make a point." reads town to me - he reacted well to the pressure from the quick lynch proposal. I believe he was just shaking things up. 159 is good too.

Ricastle - 58 and following feel like real frustration at a slow game. 109 - I'm not your friend . As noted, not a fan of traps. Stayed on Lowell too long. Not sure if he's agressive town, or scum who wants to appear aggressive.

Townier to scummier:

{jmo, lowell}
{Mario}
{Marcrell, Snarky, Armageddon, Ricastle}
{Karnage}
{Gendaberry, zulfy}

[Persivul]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Gendaberry

[Persivul]

Also, guys, can we please talk about 208, because I seriously believe that's a slip?

Make it easy for me to understand.

[Persivul]

I still don't see it. What's the Scum Slips for Dummies version? If you persist in pushing a slip without clearly explaining it, you'll look bad yourself.

[Persivul]

Karnage was going to ask how I could think three people were scum. This implies that he believed the scumteam consisted of less than 3 people. He corrects himself by remembering the existance of a traitor.

What townie would assume there were two scum in a 12P if they forgot a traitor existed, let alone a townie with multiple years on-site experience?

What he said was in context of bussing. I took it to essentially be saying,

I was going to make an

associative

case showing that these 3 can't be scum together, but then I remembered there's a traitor, so the associative case doesn't hold

. I think that makes more sense than your scum slip scenario.

Obviously, the traitor isn't mentioned in the other scum's role PMs

, and isn't in their PT. This would make it easy for one of those two scum to forget there was a traitor and

then

assume there were only two scum. This is the only standpoint from which his assumption makes sense.

Now you're pushing too hard. It took me all of 30 seconds to check the sample role PMs and find:

"Mafia Goon
Welcome, [Player Name]. You are a Mafia Goon, along with your partner [Player Name]. Additionally

you know a Mafia Traitor exists

, but you do not know who they are"

[Persivul]

Now you're just refusing to let go of your theory. I've done the same. Argue that he's scum for other reasons if you like, but the slip isn't convincing and is just distracting from other arguments against him.

[Persivul]

This is getting boring.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Karnage

L-2

[Persivul]

persivul, what is it about jmo's play gives you such a strong town read on him?

First, note that my list is townier to scummier. Being in the top tier is relative, and doesn't indicate a strong town read - it's just stronger than on others. Later in the game I'll label groups in my lists.

Second - he came into a slow game and tried to get it moving. That's generally townie.

[Persivul]

One of 2 IIRC.

[Persivul]

So you are ok with 115 and 170 where he voted/unvoted Mario without commenting on either?

Yes. 115 was his second post, so that was his RVS vote. Sometimes if I come in late or even replace in on D2 I make an RVS vote.

[Persivul]

Still wondering why Jmo hasn't bothered voting for anyone despite apparently having scumreads.

Yeah, I checked his ISO again and that's a valid point. Some scum like to avoid votes in early game because it makes it harder to find associatives in late game. OTOH he said that just calling out a group of names is his playstyle and can be seen in his meta. Have you checked his meta?

[Persivul]

This has been going on for two weeks now. Can we just lynch someone? Lynch me if you want. But let's have a lynch already.

[Persivul]

I for one am loving the pace of this thing

Yeah and you came in a week later than the rest of us.

[Persivul]

Hammer please...

[Persivul]

My apologies, this should have been in the day start post:

Kop is a mod confirmed

Innocent Child

So we have an IC that doesn't post...great...

Called it!

[Persivul]

Either Lowell or Ricastle are my choices.

OK, Ricastle
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ricastle

[Persivul]

two

What the fuck...
I missed that part.

Gonna have to reconsider my play here.

Yall now know Im vt I guess.

Or goon.

Or VI

[Persivul]

Zulfy+Karnage setup confusion should show that it's sort of confusing so it shouldn't be a tell, but Zulfy thinking there'd only be one makes me think he might know what scum picked and since there was only one thought there'd be only one PR. I'm not positive.

And Ricastle's diversion from the Karnage L-1 wagon makes him the third.

[Persivul]

Spoiler:

VC 1.11

Karnage

[L-1]

- MarioManiac4, Gendaberry, Lowell, Ricastle, Persivul, Armageddon

Lowell

- SnarkySnowman

jmo16mla

- Kop, Karnage

Ricastle

- Marcrell

Not voting:

jmo16mla, Zulfy

With 12 alive, it's 7 to lynch.

Deadline is in (expired on 2016-01-18 11:30:00)

Mod Notes

: Kop has not responded to his prod. I am looking for a replacement, but will allow him to remain in the game if he posts before a replacement is found.
Lowell will be V/LA 1/18-1/21
Armageddon was prodded.

Flashwagon HOOOOOOOO

VOTE: Zulfy

sure

VOTE: zulfy

If anyone thinks that Karnage and Ricastle aren't scum buddies, please explain.

[Persivul]

Leaving this aside, can someone tell me why the karnage wagon is now DECREASING in size?

Because Ricastle didn't like it once it got to L-1.

[Persivul]

And by "didn't like it" I mean "panicked."

[Persivul]

Persivul. Vote Karnage if he's scum with Ricàstle.

I was planning on going back there, but wanted to make a point about Ricastle's play.

Snarky, wanna join us?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Karnage

[Persivul]

I'll vote anyone, including myself, if it would just end this phase.
VOTE: zulfy

[Persivul]

I'm as town as a freckle-faced youth riding his bicycle merrily down Elm Street...but I'm bored to death.

[Persivul]

Wow, you guys seriously don't have a problem with someone jumping off an L-1 wagon with absolutely no reason given? Interesting.

[Persivul]

Wow, you guys seriously don't have a problem with someone jumping off an L-1 wagon with absolutely no reason given? Interesting.

Timmid town?

Distancing gone awry?

[Persivul]

You're voting my top town read. I don't like that.

Maybe you should explain WHY he's your top town read...

[Persivul]

Anyways, I want to lynch Armageddon because of his random coming in and voting.

Yeah, I can tell how much you want to lynch him by the way you didn't vote for him.

[Persivul]

Damn, if he's scum townreading me for scumreading him, that's pretty ballsy.
UNVOTE:

[Persivul]

First to say anything is Percy

zulfy - weird entrance - prime minister of Pakistan?

Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto

Votes Lowell in 182 but says no scumpings, then invents the ping in 183 - supposed to be the other way around there champ. 222 "null on every single player" is bad. Bare vote in 224 with bad explanation once again in the post after the vote.

[...]

Townier to scummier:

{jmo, lowell}
{Mario}
{Marcrell, Snarky, Armageddon, Ricastle}
{Karnage}
{Gendaberry, zulfy}

His points are good ones.

His readlist I find premature but whatever the guy seems to be impatient.

I argued that zulfy was scum. Scum would tend to defend, counterattack, or ignore such points. This guy quotes them and says they're good! I mean WTF, if he's not town, he's really unusual and ballsy scum. I'm going with town for now.

[Persivul]

Scum wouldn't townread you for thinking they're scum? wtf? Literally every scum does this literally every game.

I've never seen it before.

[Persivul]

persivul's recent play does not seem consistent his play earlier in the day.

True. I've been bored as hell for a week now. I'd like to replace out but that would be cruel to subject a replacement to this lame-ass game. This phase was too long. It shouldn't have been extended for the holiday, which came at the beginning of phase anyway. I understand a holiday extension if phase is near ending, but in this case it wasn't needed. It feels like we've been playing this for a month.

[Persivul]

intent to hammer

i'm tired of this.
karnage or zulfy. i don't even really care. to be honest.

they're both mafia anyway.

karnage was at L-1 before Ricastle saved him for no reason. Works for me.

karnage

[Persivul]

VOTE: karnage

[Persivul]

If you don't care about this game then stop trying to control it.

I'm posting like everyone else. This is the second time I've been accused of trying to control the game. The first was from Mario. And speaking of Mario, I read his ISO and I don't like it.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mario

[Persivul]

what don't you like about it?

He tunneled you the entire day. I read your ISO as well and, while I had some issues with you in my big reads list, now it doesn't look too bad.

[Persivul]

A little over a day left.

[Persivul]

Yeah kinda what I was thinking.

[Persivul]

Do either of you have anything substantial to bring to the table or are you just going to loiter around like crows?

Uh, bub, all you had before this post was a naked vote.

VOTE: ricastle

[Persivul]

Several people were trying to spot the traitor yesterday, but if I were scum, recruiting the traitor would have been a no-brainer. Would probably have also taken role cop, but nothing more.

ricastle, what would you take as scum?

[Persivul]

I haven't paid enough attention to the scum's role options to make a decision regarding that. Why did you? Who says the traitor wasn't taken?

It's not unusual for people to speculate on setup in general, and town roles like roleblocker and goon cop would likely wonder what was taken.

Further, if the traitor was recruited, looking for traitor tells is at best a waste of time and worse could be mafia trying to frame someone.

What are your reads on mario and gendaberry?

[Persivul]

You're a goon cop that checked me last night, is that it?

Why do you think that?

[Persivul]

You're trying to discern whether I'm innocent or not based on what I think (or would know) the scum chose in regards to the Traitor.

If I goon copped you and got a negative, I'd be back to standard scum hunting on you. Your thoughts on the traitor could be a factor I suppose, but not a particularly important one.

[Persivul]

VOTE: riscastle

You're role fishing. And continually speculating on the setup.

Uh, no, he's just responding to my questions.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: jmo

[Persivul]

What are you trying to achieve with these questions, might I ask? You're a goon cop that checked me last night, is that it?

I brought up roles in 544 and he was responding. In context I don't think it's fair to charge him with rolefishing.

[Persivul]

But right now I'd rather:

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Armageddon

[Persivul]

I can go back to that.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: jmo

[Persivul]

Why Marcrell? He's one of my townier reads, albeit he hasn't posted a lot.

[Persivul]

I see that it was incorrect. Incorrect doesn't automatically mean scummy.

[Persivul]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Ricastle

And yes, I know I've been all over the place - just one of those days, nothing to be concerned about.

[Persivul]

I never said marcrell was scummy. I was inferring that you didn't read what he posted, but saw the vote and then voted, yourself. Meaning, you didn't even look at the case, only the vote and that there was someone behind the wagon you "wanted" after voting me earlier for what exactly? Because I stated riscastle was ROLE FISHING?

Are you even reading the game? You're vote hopping has been great by the way as of this page by the way.

Yep, I'm admittedly channeling RadiantCowbells or something today. Lots of theories are running through my head and instead of letting them percolate awhile as I usually do I've been voting them immediately.

zulfy is persivul's traitor, yup

persivul is for sure scummy and i still think zulfy is the right lynch

What's your point, considering that, you know, zulfy flipped green? Just pointing out that my reads have been better than rofl's?

[Persivul]

Several people were trying to spot the traitor yesterday, but if I were scum, recruiting the traitor would have been a no-brainer. Would probably have also taken role cop, but nothing more.

ricastle, what would you take as scum?

I'm genuinely curious, is there any actual point to this line of questioning at all?

Yes, there was. But, I played it poorly - too heavy-handed and I suspect I'm a dead man tonight now, so I may as well explain.

I'm a tracker. Last night I tracked Ricastle to you.

IMO the best explanation is that Ricastle is a mafia rolecop.

PRs that target someone are:

Bodyguard - Ricastle was more active than you yesterday, so no reason for him to think you'd be targeted for NK, or to risk his own neck for you.
Goon cop - the way he asked me if I'm goon cop seems to rule that out
Roleblocker - unlikely, as he made no indication of scum reading you yesterday
Vigilante - you're not dead, so no
Mafia role cop - makes sense. You weren't highly active yesterday, and town PRs tend to keep low key to avoid NK.

So, sorry town, again yesterday wasn't a good day for me and I could have handled that better.

[Persivul]

I'm not liking this. Both of you just outted yourselves voluntarily? I'm inclined to think you are both lying scum.

And how are two claimed town PRs going to explain not being NK'd a day or two from now?

[Persivul]

This. You guys are massive idiots if you're both town and telling the truth.

No, if we're both telling the truth, I'm to blame. Ricastle was forced to respond. But, I'm not at all convinced that he's telling the truth.

[Persivul]

id like to see if someone counter claims any of the roles.

Pers could have easily just not said anything until he got a better result. I don't know why you didn't wait till you were at L-1. Why did you claim when you had no votes on you? Seriously? That's stupid.

As noted, I tried to get some information without claiming yesterday, but in hindsight I needed to be more subtle. Any scum watching certainly figured out that I was a PR of some sort, so there was no sense in not giving my results. I'm dead tonight either way.

[Persivul]

You tried to get info without claiming yesterday?

Yes. First note that by yesterday I mean real time, not game day - maybe that's the confusion. My result looked suspicious but wasn't conclusive, so I asked ricastle some questions which I hoped would provide some clarity.

Again, why would you claim at all unless you were at L-1 with someone claiming intent to hammer.

Because I believe my interaction with Ricastle made it apparent to someone who was looking for PRs that I was a PR. Ricastle did ask me point blank if I'm goon cop, you know. Even if he's town, he pointed out that my questioning indicated I'm a PR. So, since I'm likely getting killed tonight, it made sense to give my results. Being NK'd tonight without giving my results would be the worst scenario.

I didn't see how you were a PR before you outed yourself. I'm not seeing it.

Again, it was obvious enough that Ricastle asked me point blank if I'm goon cop.

[Persivul]

So if we accept that you are the RB, you decided to block somebody who wasn't even one of your scum reads? how does that make any sense? The only worse play would have been for you to block rolfcopter.

And how much could you have doubted your intuition if you are right back to voting me again?

Yes, this is part of why I put my vote back on ricastle and made the claim. His play is much better explained by mafia rolecop than by town roleblocker.

[Persivul]

What the fuck.

You should have gotten not goon. Not no result.

he was conveniently "role blocked" by ricastle

each of them clears the others yet none of it can be independently verified

Actually, yeah, I tracked ricastle to genda. If they were both scum there's no reason that ricastle would have targeted genda.

If ricastle's scum and genda's town, there's no reason for genda to lie to clear ricastle.

If ricastle's town and genda's scum, genda could make that claim for town cred, but eventually he would be NK'd for it.

So to me it seems that ricastle is necessarily town. Genda is probably, but not necessarily, town.

[Persivul]

If genda's telling the truth that means that scum took at least two of their options. I would be surprised if recruiting the traitor wasn't one of them.

[Persivul]

This could work out OK. There are 10 players left. We lynch outside of {Persivul, Ricastle, Gendaberry}. That leaves 9 players, 3 of whom are scum. The three of us coordinate our targets so we don't overlap, and so we know who was targeted since one of us will likely be killed, and one may be roleblocked.

[Persivul]

4) All three lied => All three share the same alignment.
...
Any counterclaims while we're at it though?

That option is very unlikely because town gets two PRs to start. Three scum making false town claims in this setup would likely get at least one CC.

[Persivul]

Not Voting {Ricastle, Persivul, Grenda, Mario}

Why not Mario?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mario

[Persivul]

OK. Marcrell needs to post more but I like some of what I've seen. I can vote Snarky or Arma though.

Genda what's your current lynch pool?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Snarky

[Persivul]

I like how I'm a lynch candidate for almost no reason in almost every game I play in.

Uh, you just voted for Lowell without giving any reasons.

[Persivul]

Just reviewed Snarky and Arma ISOs. Neither are good but IMO Arma's is worse.

Proposed plan:

We lynch Armageddon.

We don't want an accidental double-up on investigations, so:
- I track one of {Mario, Karnage, Lowell}
- Genda investigates one of {Marcrell, jmo, Snarky}

Ricastle blocks whomever he chooses.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Armageddon

[Persivul]

Prodge - I've got a nasty cold, won't be posting much this week. Not much happening anyway.

[Persivul]

Okay, how about here.

Town by claim: {Persivul, Ricastle, Grenda}
Town by (my) read: {Mario, Jmo}
Null by lack of post: {Marcrell, Lowell, Armageddon}
Null by lack of (my) read: {Karnage,

Snarky

}

Wait, you have a null read on yourself??

Yeah, I thought that was weird too.

Overall it felt like a forced readslist. Townies post reads to actually be helpful. Scum post them because they think it makes them look townie. This list felt like the latter.

[Persivul]

UNVOTE:

Sick, will think more on this later.

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All the people who haven't claimed have pretty meh ISOs. I can get on board with any of them, except possibly Lowell - I'd have to check that one again. jmo had a decent start trying to motivate a slow game but he's been pretty bad since then.

VOTE: jmo

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UNVOTE:

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jmo v. marcrell feels authentic to me. Probably one is scum and one town. We should narrow our lynch pool to these two and see where the votes are. Reviewing marcrell I see he sided with me on a couple things and so I was predisposed to like him, but really his ISO is pretty bare.

VOTE: marcrell

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You're preaching to the choir. I was on Mario early but didn't get any support.

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Yes I want to rethink that. It was a first draft and might not make sense. I was trying to avoid the possibility of two investigatives targeting the same person, but I don't know if that risk is worth giving scum info on who's investigating whom. If there is a hammer before we discuss it, everyone just do what they feel is best.

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Flokati rug...

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I forget what the claims are, but it doesn't matter - PRs should ignore my previous plan and just do whatever you think is best. A plan would give information to scum and help them decide who to kill, and who to send to do the kill. With a little luck Marcrell will flip red and we'll get a positive result tonight.

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Hey Snarky can you post a list of the PR claims?

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Ooh yeah, I'll look townie if I complain that there was time left on the clock...

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You're a tracker.
Riscastle is a blocker
Grendel is a goon cop
Snarky is a bodyguard.

Thanks. So...

Snarky protects one of the other PRs. Ricastle blocks any non-PR. Those are easy.

Me and Grendel target whomever we choose. There's a chance that we both target the same person, which could be a waste. OTOH, if we break it down to two groups and each pick from a different group, that could work against us if all the scum are in one group. Scum would choose the investigator of that group for the NK.

So it seems to me we just each pick a target and hope for the best, unless someone comes up with a better plan.

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I felt that Arma and Mario are already totally scummy and lynchable, so I tracked Lowell. Knowing that I'm a tracker, if Lowell was scum he likely would have been sent to do the kill, as I haven't been scum reading him. Lowell went nowhere.

VOTE: Armageddon

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Correct, he's not cleared, we just know he didn't go anywhere last night.

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Arma and Mario top my list.

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Arma and Mario top my list.

Explain why I top your list, what exactly makes me scummy?

Posts like this. In my experience these more often than not come from scum.

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There's lots of time dude.

Why do you think Lowell's post is just lazy rather than scummy?

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I doubt there's a traitor. If I were scum that's the first thing I would take is recruit the traitor.

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Nice work Snarky. Mario targeted me. All targeting town roles have flipped or been claimed.

VOTE: Mario

p-edit: here you go, just need people to stop by and vote.

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Good game everyone. I felt bad on D2 when I outed PRs, but I think everyone claiming worked to our benefit.

Conceptually I've usually been against mass claims because they give information to scum, but in practice it seems to work more often than not by narrowing the lynch pool.

jmo you did a nice job with that massive defense. I was wavering on you but that looked town.

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Thanks for running the game, it went well. As noted previously I wasn't crazy about the super long D1, but after awhile it settled into a decent pace.

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FWIW if I were scum I would have made the same choices. It's probably a swingy setup.

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People like roles.

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Remember too that vig is frequently negative utility for town. Just bad luck for scum that we didn't draw it.