Open 662: Fire and Ice (Game Over)

[Joshz]

kappa

[Joshz]

VOTE: bk201

[Joshz]

nty

[Joshz]

rv -> shitpost -> setup discussion -> two naked votes -> #93 which felt like a weird reply to me and prompted this vote initially -> filler

[Joshz]

Fridge

[Joshz]

fridging post you fridging fridge

[Joshz]

VOTE: culted

VOTE: Realeo

[Joshz]

VOTE: culted

VOTE: Realeo

I voted Culted right after he posted a couple things, it should be obvious my vote was reflective on those posts. And if you read my next post or two after my current vote, you can clearly see I have reasons. So how can you ignore that and act like my current vote is 'naked'? Also you should answer my question you ignored. No offense, but are you new or something?

im sorry but your 'reasons' are "I completely agree with your case", which was when prompted. i can not clearly see you have reasons, i can clearly see the classic 'are you new or something' line that people love to throw around though.

i dont need to walk you through why i find 93 scummy. walking someone through how to make me townread them is not something i do.

[Joshz]

Trying to make me look scummy by misrepping me is scummy.

VOTE: Josh

Bad vote

[Joshz]

Gammas vote was trash

NM wasn't even the chain, that was us

Also I only remember 6 ppl itg so others need to post or I'll start fridging people

[Joshz]

It's actually lacking rory, penguin, snarky snowman, and clemency.
Q^P

[Joshz]

hi rory!

[Joshz]

Transcend/bk are fire. Gamma and realeo are ice. Bam solved.

[Joshz]

why am i being townread i havent done shit itg lmao

this isnt meant to get townread even more, i literally do not get it. i have no confident reads rn so i left my vote on bk but its not strong, and i havent contributed much. this compared to when i get scum read after being active >_>

srsly ppl have no right to keep townreading me!

unvote and VOTE: rory

[Joshz]

A policy lynch is a policy lynch

[Joshz]

to be fair this is a weird setup scumhunting wise

[Joshz]

to be fair this is a weird setup scumhunting wise

Eh, not really. It just makes it easier for scum to genuinely scum hunt.

Gamma, I haven't made it to his nn stuff yet, but I don't see the issue with those first three votes.

there's also no prs or anything except a single doc and there is a large amount of scum

[Joshz]

out of all of the scum reads ive seen i think nn makes the most sense

unvote and VOTE: nn

[Joshz]

hunt all the scum jimmy. hunt 'em down and hang 'em.

pedit; i sheep both as scum and as town if i have no strong fake read (ie one i can push convincingly) / real read (one im very confident in) respectively. i am inexperienced and i know that, so i tend to look at what people say and decide which of their reads makes the most sense for me.

[Joshz]

i care about what everyone thinks to a degree, im a fairly emotional player and we cant talk about ongoing games so ill leave it at youve seen that. would you rather i didnt reply to you? every opinion matters until the opinion holder flips scum. however, you changing your read on me does make me feel better about my vote on you. anyways, gn.

[Joshz]

I don't like that Josh left the thread as soon as I asked him a question...

Anyways...

@Gamma - well the town objective is to find scum, right? So how do I differentiate that from scum who are also attempting to find scum?

Sorry for having to sleep for work. I'll try and stay up for 2 weeks next time. my bad.

[Joshz]

Hi. No.

[Joshz]

Huh?

[Joshz]

Not a fan of Realeo trying to shut down BK's above thought. If there was a way to use the setup, we absolutely should discuss it. It only hurts town not to. He also feels calculated in his so called RVS exit and his reaction to Transcend's vote was pretty defensive. His concerns with notmafia feel fake too. An RVS wagon getting to L-3 is nothing new and notmafia being the one to put it there isn't surprising. Transcend's post 55 is a good point too. I'd probably vote realeo if I was here for all of this.

On your point about "BK's above thought"
1] I am skeptical of setup speccing because I have won a scum game by manipulating setup speccing. The Purge for reference.

2] I have lost a town game because town (imo) is too invested in setup speccing. Mislead 2 is for reference.

3]

Fire and Ice is not a new setup.

If there is a breaking strategy, I expect a) I would know it or b) Open is a moderated forum. Why would Llama give a broken setup? I check the game history and it has been replayed. If the game is broken, I expect it would be fixed (see Duck! Duck! Goose! on how they fixed the setup by adding 1 extra PGO). In Mislead 2 + The Purge, town invested too much in setup speccing and forget the scumhunting part.

TL:DR; I see no way how setup speccing will be helping the town. Even worse, setup speccing is usually NAI because the casual rule of "effort is NAI"

Other has been discussed.

Let us say that there are a lot of things that trigger me in RVS. Can I have your argumentation of me mafia beside RVS?

1) And that's why it makes sense for town to actively discuss it in a game where it makes sense to.

2) Right. You guys probably spent too little time on scum hunting. There's a necessary balance. (Reading your point 3 now, it sounds like that's exactly what happened)

3) I'm not disputing this. Read my post again if you think otherwise.

And for the bottom part, sure, it's been discussed. Doesn't mean I'm satisfied. And I don't consider any of that RVS and am frankly shocked that you are shrugging it off as that. I mean yeah, it's your reaction to RVS stuff, but that doesn't make it RVS itself. Your play since that hasn't done anything to change my mind.

------------------

BK's point on nn, when combined with my own concerns, is enough that I can definitely sheep that if needed, especially if transcend and gamma are the only other choices.

Josh, as someone who works 2 or 3 consecutive 16 hour days without internet access at work (Thank God I've been on vacation since Thanksgiving), I get having to work and sleep. But while you're back, some thoughts would be cool.

Nn, there are two ways to look at realeo not lazily voting you. Well, actually three with this setup. There's your version. There's him being scum who doesn't want to look bad by being on your wagon. Or with the two teams, he could be scum legitimately trying to sort you. I wouldn't write him off just for that.

nn30 is scum. kmd is town. io, culted, and notmafia are most likely town. bk and transcend are slight town leans, realeo, gamma and snowman are slight scum leans. aristophanes slot has done a grand total of nothing yet. i dont have any game-breaking revelations to post, these reads are boring and dont have substance so i see no need to shove them down peoples throats. i am willing to wagon on gamma, realeo, snowman, and nn right now.

[Joshz]

I don't know. He's trying to be helpful and he's not afraid to go into an argument. I think inexperienced scum would have backed off when he didn't.

i disagree. i dont think experience correlates with how people play as scum, be it aggressive or lurker or what have you.

[Joshz]

Nn, there are two ways to look at realeo not lazily voting you. Well, actually three with this setup. There's your version. There's him being scum who doesn't want to look bad by being on your wagon. Or with the two teams, he could be scum legitimately trying to sort you. I wouldn't write him off just for that.

In this setup, scum don't care where the lynch goes so long as it's not on them or their teammate. His behavior doesn't suggest scum to me for that reason -it suggests town.

Is there a reason why you've said you're fine with sheeping onto my wagon and, in the same breath, tried to change how I look at the game (speaking to me as if I'm town)?

you are still new, even if you're scum he is allowed to give you general advice. and no scum read is ever absolute in a setup lacking inspects, so it is unwise to write someone off as scum and ignore this. i said this yesterday before i scummily went to sleep though.

[Joshz]

I don't know. He's trying to be helpful and he's not afraid to go into an argument. I think inexperienced scum would have backed off when he didn't.

i disagree. i dont think experience correlates with how people play as scum, be it aggressive or lurker or what have you.

1) Your recent posts suggest town

2) No offense dawg, but you've admitted to being new yourself. I botched the 'well scum usually do this' thing a bunch of times in my first games. Forgive me for not buying into your version of what 'scum usually do.'

p-edit: wtf Transcend lol. How is he obv town?

no offense dawg, but im new to ms, not strategy. listen to me or dont, thats your discretion.

[Joshz]

I don't know. He's trying to be helpful and he's not afraid to go into an argument. I think inexperienced scum would have backed off when he didn't.

i disagree. i dont think experience correlates with how people play as scum, be it aggressive or lurker or what have you.

so you are reading my posts but you have ignored my question twice.

VOTE: Joshz

do u think i have u on ignore or something? lol

[Joshz]

id go for chinese

[Joshz]

rory defended you without overcommitting in a way thatd automatically pair you, granted in a weird way that scum might not attempt as culted said. see 395 397 and 398. he then votes a person pushing your lynch. hes done very little itg and a very large portion of his content is re: me naked voting him, re: you being townie, and filler.

note: i dont think rory is necessarily your scum partner or necessarily scum. i am just giving an argument that id see for it and am curios if this is what people see or what people agree with. his recent few posts are quite bad though.

[Joshz]

*not really relevant as of now* if ice and mafia shooters both hit each other how does that work on ms? both die, neither, some weird priority? if ice shoots fire who shoots town does town die or n (guessing n)

[Joshz]

ive commented on rory. no strong read, on the scum side of the spectrum though

[Joshz]

i would just say it because this is not a new setup

[Joshz]

if its useless he shouldnt want to say it ://

[Joshz]

Not everything is good to know though. For example, if I think I know who the doc is, I'm sure as hell not saying so. That's basic mafia.

well duh. thats different from having something you 'WANT' to say though. i have a high enough opinion of gamma that if he knew (suspected) who the doc was he wouldnt mention it. i am like transcend, i like knowing everyones thoughts always (and subsequently hate lurkers and post a ton myself), and if it wasnt immediately obvious to gamma as helping scum it probably doesnt in a significant way. granted this is his discretion but he got me curios and i know id be wondering personally if he didnt say it.

[Joshz]

Sheh, people. Some people prefer to accuse info than to acquire info.

Question for yo, @nn30 (RPG)

1) What is exactly this meta dive, RPG?

2) Why he putting on the bottom of the read violates the meta?

[Joshz]

Transcend did his majestic colored reads list day 1 in 1850 when he was townie fwiw

[Joshz]

@Josh: 383

Thx

2. When Transcens presents readlist , you flipped. Why quality of read list > meta dive.

I didn't like that he color coded it. The last time I saw that was from scum trying too hard. I may have over reacted.

I've been meta diving since I joined the site and I've yet to do it correctly. I'll figure it out at some point, and I probably won't stop doing it because once I do figure it out I'll be unstoppable, but until then anything I get from meta is going to be weak.

It was in reply to this gamma

Okay.

Done reading I kinda got lazy and skimmed the rest.

Some thoughts.

EP and Road solid town, more sure about EP than Road, but I'm fairly sure they're both, to quote a recently banned user, "town-aligned"

Rem's only post she made was really good. I had the same thought and the post Gamma made turned my read on him back to the gut!town read I had before. I like Giga's catch-up and they questions they asked. So Giga/Rem slot pretty town.

Joshz is definitely town here as well, his play is 100% genuine. I'd be surprised as hell if they flipped scum.

Nadroj is also FAIRLY town but I'm not gonna put them too high on my reads list.

Sorry mykonian, but I don't see anythign that makes me really want to change my mind about what I saw from you earlier. Your votes don't look genuine, I don't think you're genuinely advancing through the game.

MariaR/Gerryoat has at least one scum, it might've been scum theatre, idk. Gerry usually tries a lot more as scum, but I'm not gonna hard townread him for being lazy this game. MariaR has had some towny lines, but idk her recent progression is pretty bleh. She hasn't really given much input on the whole Myko/Road/Gamma debacle and focused more on vanity wagons. This isn't an alignment tell honestly.

Kraska needs to do more, but I think she's town for right now and her play looks really town motivated.

I really liked a lot of what MTD had to say.

SSBM had a good page one, but that's it. The rest of his play gives me a sick feeling in my stomach.

Pretty sure Gamma's town after all the events that went down.

RN I feel safe with--

{Errantparabola, Joshz, Road Kamelot}

{gigabyteTroubadour, MTD}

{Gamma Emerald, kraska77, XnadrojX}

{gerryoat, MariaR}

{ssbm_Kyuoko}

gap

mykonian

Now, scum were ep mtd and Maria, so he was completely wrong. But there was the list.

[Joshz]

wasnt that common knowledge...?

anyways gn

[Joshz]

why am i being townread i havent done shit itg lmao

this isnt meant to get townread even more, i literally do not get it. i have no confident reads rn so i left my vote on bk but its not strong, and i havent contributed much. this compared to when i get scum read after being active >_>

srsly ppl have no right to keep townreading me!

unvote and VOTE: rory

Where does this vote come from? I wasn't even townreading you, so the point you made was obviously not against me.

There is no explanation here; you didn't townread me and therefore weren't even discussed in the post

[Joshz]

nn is at least contributing to town. even IF he is scum, which i still think is a possibility, in this setup id rather he stayed alive and productively helped us lynch the other scum team. id still lynch scum if i was confident but im less confident in my scum read of him than i was and in a setup with competing scum reads i dont feel confident enough to lynch an active poster who is improving in towniness.

unvote and VOTE: rory

his interactions with me have been awful, he hasnt done much else this game. not really being a productive townie either and #563 is also a thing.

[Joshz]

I've already roughly said this but this kind of setup in particular I'd much rather lynch scummy idlers rather than scummy frequent posters early on. We have two scum teams and both are just as concerned with scum hunting as town is. So, I still put nn's on the acummier side of the spectrum. He is contributing to scum hunting though regardless, whereas someone like rory is being scummy while also not doing much period. When one team is gone is when we revert to standard scum lynching, for now be good little sheep and vote rory
Again, if nn's was lock scum I'd still lynch him. His recent posts are better though. It's not worth the risk lynching him rn.

General question to more experienced peiple: are scum likely to be more concerned with taking out the opposing scum team than town?

[Joshz]

Poor entrance, general poor early game, blah blah. It's been explained in more detail previously.

[Joshz]

General question to more experienced peiple: are scum likely to be more concerned with taking out the opposing scum team than town?

Depends on the player, but generally if they're smart, yeah. Why'd you ask this question?

Just a general thought about whether or not a scum team scum reading someone is likely to kill them

[Joshz]

why am i being townread i havent done shit itg lmao

this isnt meant to get townread even more, i literally do not get it. i have no confident reads rn so i left my vote on bk but its not strong, and i havent contributed much. this compared to when i get scum read after being active >_>

srsly ppl have no right to keep townreading me!

unvote and VOTE: rory

Where does this vote come from? I wasn't even townreading you, so the point you made was obviously not against me.

There is no explanation here; you didn't townread me and therefore weren't even discussed in the post

so you question people for townreading you and then vote someone completely different for no reason at all? How does that make sense?

I was doing just that, questioning them. Questioning =/= scumreading, and none of their reactions felt scummy to me. For example, snowman on the last page used nn's read on me as an example of a genuine one, lmao. My vote on you was a vote on a random idler for pressure and your reaction was terrible. It was a naked vote because you hadnt commented on me and we both know that, there was no reason to get that defensive.

[Joshz]

General question to more experienced peiple: are scum likely to be more concerned with taking out the opposing scum team than town?

Depends on the player, but generally if they're smart, yeah. Why'd you ask this question?

Just a general thought about whether or not a scum team scum reading someone is likely to kill them

To build on this: I was hoping that one of the people scum reading nn would be scum and just shoot him tonight. Obviously not exactly stone cold logic but I like thinking about every possible outcome and it'd be nice for scum to shoot scum.

[Joshz]

why am i being townread i havent done shit itg lmao

this isnt meant to get townread even more, i literally do not get it. i have no confident reads rn so i left my vote on bk but its not strong, and i havent contributed much. this compared to when i get scum read after being active >_>

srsly ppl have no right to keep townreading me!

unvote and VOTE: rory

Where does this vote come from? I wasn't even townreading you, so the point you made was obviously not against me.

why am i being townread i havent done shit itg lmao

this isnt meant to get townread even more, i literally do not get it. i have no confident reads rn so i left my vote on bk but its not strong, and i havent contributed much. this compared to when i get scum read after being active >_>

srsly ppl have no right to keep townreading me!

unvote and VOTE: rory

Where does this vote come from? I wasn't even townreading you, so the point you made was obviously not against me.

Josh if you continue ignoring this I will

nightkill

lynch you!

P-edit dammit Transcend let a guy post

Hi kmd

Thoughts asap plz

Also Rory, u can be green for now. What do u think about the rest of my reads?

Josh dropped a few notches for me, but other than that they look decent to me. nn30 isn't really on my radar yet. I can't really remember what he did.

I don't know. He's trying to be helpful and he's not afraid to go into an argument. I think inexperienced scum would have backed off when he didn't.

i disagree. i dont think experience correlates with how people play as scum, be it aggressive or lurker or what have you.

so you are reading my posts but you have ignored my question twice.

VOTE: Joshz

NN-Rory Team

I almost cried when I read this.

Rory ISO looks bad.

Great argument.

btw gamma is still scum but he can get lynched d2 this time

VOTE: nn30


catch-up was awful

{Io, Not_Mafia}

{Joshz, culted}

{Realeo}

{BK201, PenguinPower, Clemency}

{Rory}

{SnarkySnowman}

{Gamma Emerald, nn30}

smt like this feels a-ok

I'm no orange. I'm green.

If you're scum, I'm never townreading you again Transcend.

Do these seem like townie posts to you?

[Joshz]

I'd also like to zone in on 393 and 412. Notice how in 393 rory says I look good while acknowledging my vote on him. Then in 412 he votes me...? The situation was the same in both and you'd already acknowledged I looked good (*flexes*).

[Joshz]

Rory, is your defense that I'm joking?

[Joshz]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

rory u can't be everyone's friend btw

I'm voting scum right now. If Gamma flips scum I'll gladly lynch Realeo.

No idea on 2nd team yet. Probably somewhere in the inactives.

If I read the last few posts right I don't think Gamma can be town

use your vote!

Your only posts on gamma.

[Joshz]

I'd also like to zone in on 393 and 412. Notice how in 393 rory says I look good while acknowledging my vote on him. Then in 412 he votes me...? The situation was the same in both and you'd already acknowledged I looked good (*flexes*).

It was very obvious I voted you because you ignored my question 3 times. If you're trying to make a case on me do it properly and don't try to hide things.

I quoted the posts. That's not hiding everything. Why would I reply to reactions on a reaction gauging vote? I was curious to see where it would lead. It led to you getting caught as scum. You acknowledged recently before voting me that I look good. Why would you vote someome that looks good to you just because they didn't answer you?

[Joshz]

VOTE: Realeo

Saw his name a lot so gud vote.

this is terrible

Eww

They didn't bother to read, they just voted the person with the most attention on them.

That doesn't bother me at all tbh. The fact that you're scumreading Io for it does.

Oh, and this.

[Joshz]

Is that seriously your entire source for your gamma scum read?

[Joshz]

Bad vote

I don't like it when people keep ignoring my questions. It makes me feel like they're unable to answer.

Did you even read this?

I don't like when people get extremely defensive over a random vote. It makes me feel they are paranoid scum.

[Joshz]

People miss stuff all the time. If you want your stuff amswered, re post and re ask, don't scum read someone for doing something that could be chalked up to a human error.

@IO - connect those dots for me. I'm not fully understanding the conclusion you want me to draw.

I did re post and re ask, twice.

Then I voted him for not answering.

I never scumread him for not answering.

Don't put words in my mouth.

So, you voted me but you didn't scum read me?

You're going to have to do a better job convincing me Gamma is scum than that if you want me to change my vote btw.

[Joshz]

I mean he has been providing reasons for why you are scum which is what you asked him.
Not to mention most of the quotes he is providing are from before you asked said question.

Well if he had given them immediately, I wouldn't have made a big deal out of it. I don't like being ignored.

If I had given my answer immediately then there would be no reaction to gauge. I was posting in the thread actively and responding to other things, I even replied to your post without answering at a point. This should have been an inclination that I was intentionally not answering.

[Joshz]

Official Vote Count 1.8

nn30 (4)

: culted, BK201, Not_Mafia, Kmd4390

Rory (2)

: Joshz, Io

Gamma Emerald (2)

: Transcend, nn30

Transcend (2)

: Gamma Emerald, SnarkySnowman

Joshz (1)

: Rory

Not Voting (2)

- Realeo, Aristophanes

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch

You have (expired on 2016-12-22 21:19:39) until deadline.

does anyone still on the nn wagon want to change to rory/gamma? if not, care to explain if/why you still think nn is scum if anything has changed?

people not voting, get on a wagon please. i think the two wagons that should happen today are gamma and rory, but if you want to get on nn or transcend fine.

aristophanes, bk, nm in particular, id like to see some thoughts from you if possible. even say you dont have reads if you genuinely dont, but at least say something.

[Joshz]

Saw it but on mobile I didn't notice what was quotes and what wasn't and missed the spoiler. My bad.

[Joshz]

What association do I have with nn30? Do you just mean my many interactions with him?

@mod vc please btw unless someone has been keeping track

[Joshz]

lynch me for the good of town isnt necessarily scummy, but it is necessarily stupid

[Joshz]

i dont think gamma is a good lynch, he has weak arguments almost all around but like he feels lynchbaity rn, none of the people scum reading him have even somewhat convinced me hes scum. i actually do think nn and rory are somewhere equal in scumminess, but ive already stated that id rather lynch the less active person in a two scum team game and why. so, lets lynch rory, despite my 'association' with nn, he is a bad lynch. i hate when threads die and i am not keen on taking out an active voice in a game like this.

[Joshz]

you are calling my posts desperate gamma? lol

[Joshz]

it bothers me a lot that no person scumreading gamma has given any substantial reasoning

[Joshz]

i dont like either of these wagons

[Joshz]

??

anyways im on for another 30 then ill be at work w/no internet access for 9 hours so if you wanna ask anything do it now

[Joshz]

if we're ignoring the wagons can we lynch snowman

[Joshz]

Thank you for hammering an active member of the town!

[Joshz]

Ngl I think I'm getting killed just a gut feeling

Hey scum

Don't kill me

Please

)))

But whatever team rory isn't on should kill him if they want to take out a member from the opposing team.

[Joshz]

Delete

[Joshz]

Ngl I think I'm getting killed just a gut feeling

Hey scum

Don't kill me

Please

)))

But whatever team rory isn't on should kill him if they want to take out a member from the opposing team.

We already discussed itt this is a good plan u take out a scum it's win win (except for rorys partner)

[Joshz]

PEER PRESSURE

[Joshz]

If you flip scum then snowman should be killed not rory btw

[Joshz]

hm

what IF

and hear me out

BOTH factions targeted rory, because they trusted me. he was not actually scum and there were therefore no deaths. thats my thought.

thoughts???

[Joshz]

@MOD

fix thread title btw

[Joshz]

nice try but im lookout and noone visited you

[Joshz]

hm

what IF

and hear me out

BOTH factions targeted rory, because they trusted me. he was not actually scum and there were therefore no deaths. thats my thought.

thoughts???

hey scum im sorry i wasnt baiting you i really thought rory was scum at least thanks for giving us a conftown! (unless someone wants to disagree that its likely both scum shot rory)

speculating nightkills has a lot of issues obviously but in this setup if you can do it right you can clear town which is huge.

anyways snarky snowman is scum so
VOTE: snarky snowman

[Joshz]

yea i agree, its just my justification for not tunnelling rory anymore. i think the only other moderately reasonable possibility is both scum targeted me, but a) its p unlikely and b) if scum did then they should realize atp town thinks rory is town and the other team should kill him tonight most likely REGARDLESS, because hes never getting lynched so town or scum is fine. nobody else in this game had much of a reason to be double targeted.

[Joshz]

I really dislike Io, and am wary of Transcend right now.

I'm happy with a transcend wagon tbh

VOTE: Transcend

If I read the last few posts right I don't think Gamma can be town

btw gamma is still scum but he can get lynched d2 this time

VOTE: nn30


catch-up was awful

{Io, Not_Mafia}

{Joshz, culted}

{Realeo}

{BK201, PenguinPower, Clemency}

{Rory}

{SnarkySnowman}

{Gamma Emerald, nn30}

smt like this feels a-ok

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

It's the fakest nonsense I've seen in a while, and I've seen some nonsense made up readlists before

And last time I called someone out on that early on in this setup, they claimed doc and ended up flipping fire scum. Easy.

I'm still waiting to see Transcend lynched

@transcend - read his iso. it is all awful. his only content post is #576, which still isnt a particularly great post anyways. being on the nn wagon helps because nn wagon was trash and id guess 3 of the scum at least were on it, nn was an active and vocal person as i said multiple times and scum are clearly who want him out of the way, so obviously his whole wagon isnt scum but its scum driven. snowman having an impressive 12 TOTAL posts itt does not help either. lurker scum shouldnt get a free win in this setup.

[Joshz]

where im at is i want either an ss or a bk lynch. i can quote nn's bk related posts because i dont have a unique argument but you can just iso nn yourself too.

[Joshz]

VOTE: bk

if this is how ss usually plays bk is a better lynch but ss def isnt anywehre near cleared

[Joshz]

you werent the night kill lmao

transcend is just being el trollito

[Joshz]

you werent the night kill lmao

transcend is just being el trollito

You sound very certain, something you'd like to share?

i am moderately sure the kill was rory. possibly myself. the reason it wasnt bk is because a) lots of people had openly scum read him, b) to use his reasons i both went after rory significantly harder than him and b) scum doesnt always kill who scum reads them. if i were scum id want to kill other scum as fast as possible, and i brought that up in the thread intentionally. i wanted to direct a scum kill to my by far strongest scum read, and it was a genuine read so hopefully it read genuine. it was win win, because either rory died and bye bye scum or rory was town and both teams decided to do town a favor and confirm one of us.

im definitely not some all powerful god of mafia (lol), and i completely get its possible i wasnt able to sway both scum kills. HOWEVER, mathematically, nobody else was an obvious kill. at least one of the teams LIKELY wouldve taken the bait, and rory wouldve flipped even if the other kill was doc'd. i read through this thread as objectively as possible and not a single kill stuck out besides rory, and while its more than possible a scum team wouldve attempted to kill someone for some reason we as town are unaware of (reads, personal fear because some SCARY PEOPLE like transcend are itg, whatever), it is mathematically very unlikely both scum teams wouldve had the same thought.

what im saying is rory was almost definitely the target and now im town reading him. not conf town, but enough that im not lynching him today

[Joshz]

its not linear thinking

if scum didnt listen to me there were 9 other players for them to kill from for whatever reason they desired

rory was the only publicly given and justified option

its a 1/9 chance that they both selected the same target randomly. i am much more comfortable with the odds that they both listened to me (as well as INDIVIDUALLY scum read rory) then i am with 1/9 odds. i study strategy and play a lot of strategy games. it is less likely than 1/9 by a tiny bit due to this being a social game and not randomly generated numbers, somewhere around 1/8 is more accurate. 1/8 is not outlandish and is DEFINITELY a possibility, dont get me wrong. however, i want to take the more likely option which is them both targeting rory.

[Joshz]

nn stands for bk201, right?

[Joshz]

UNVOTE:

Nothing suspicious out of Io for the moment after the iso.

Or does that mean GM/Realeo/Joshz/Rory?

nn stands for nn30

that was sarcasm for him having a dead townie as a sr u twats



unvote and VOTE: ss

[Joshz]

uh meant to qutoe 861 but w/e

[Joshz]

if you think im wrong and im townie then ignore me as it doesnt matter, ive explained my thoughts.

i already explained a bit when transcend asked. ss is largely gut, nn had the same read who is a townie, and i dont believe rory is scum anymore. if you think im completely wrong which most of you seem to then everything i said on rory yesterday stands and you should lynch him because hes scum. however, im not joining you.

[Joshz]

My only problem with Joshz is that, "OMG Nobody dies! Rory is no more scum." If the mentality "OMG Nobody dies! Rory seems townier," I can accept that.

I endorse the anti-town question by N_M, although I'm not sure what does "not convinced nn flip means"

i already explicitly said rory is not conftown to me, just that im not lynching him today.

[Joshz]

?

[Joshz]

nobody cleared rory we have been over this

[Joshz]

i have explained ss read my iso zzzzzzzzzzz

nn was active and he got townier as the day progressed. the more he posted the more i thought he was town and interestingly the more he was wagoned. i think there were at least two but probably 3 scum on his wagon, because an active vocal town leader is not who scum wants alive. nn had a bad start and scum used that to propel his lynch. i was curios how the wagon developed and wouldve defended more vocally at l-1 but someone decided lolhammering was a good plan! i think the fact i posted immediately after the lynch bitching about them lynching a vocal townie says its bit.

[Joshz]

I really dislike Io, and am wary of Transcend right now.

I'm happy with a transcend wagon tbh

VOTE: Transcend

If I read the last few posts right I don't think Gamma can be town

btw gamma is still scum but he can get lynched d2 this time

VOTE: nn30


catch-up was awful

{Io, Not_Mafia}

{Joshz, culted}

{Realeo}

{BK201, PenguinPower, Clemency}

{Rory}

{SnarkySnowman}

{Gamma Emerald, nn30}

smt like this feels a-ok

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

It's the fakest nonsense I've seen in a while, and I've seen some nonsense made up readlists before

And last time I called someone out on that early on in this setup, they claimed doc and ended up flipping fire scum. Easy.

I'm still waiting to see Transcend lynched

@transcend - read his iso. it is all awful. his only content post is #576, which still isnt a particularly great post anyways. being on the nn wagon helps because nn wagon was trash and id guess 3 of the scum at least were on it, nn was an active and vocal person as i said multiple times and scum are clearly who want him out of the way, so obviously his whole wagon isnt scum but its scum driven. snowman having an impressive 12 TOTAL posts itt does not help either. lurker scum shouldnt get a free win in this setup.

well, nn's was within his first tiny bit of being in the game so it was a bit different, and he improved in my eyes. snarky's latest post was just as bad. notice how the first part of it is replying to something that has already been discussed and acknowledged, second is wishy washy, rest of the post is similar. just all around bad.

[Joshz]

speculating nightkills has a lot of issues obviously but in this setup if you can do it right you can clear town which is huge.

You can't clear someone as town for sure in this game, it just doesn't work.

yea i agree, its just my justification for not tunnelling rory anymore. i think the only other moderately reasonable possibility is both scum targeted me, but a) its p unlikely and b) if scum did then they should realize atp town thinks rory is town and the other team should kill him tonight most likely REGARDLESS, because hes never getting lynched so town or scum is fine. nobody else in this game had much of a reason to be double targeted.

Not the best justification if you thought he was scum, I'll be honest.

VOTE: Rory

pedit: agree. i haven't seen scum!ss before, only lynchbaittown!ss. i don't rely on meta too much though.

I have a few scum games, check my wiki

VOTE: BK

Yeah he's fairly obvious Mafia now especially considering he is now saying he was the night kill.

Agree he's scum, how he talks about the night kill has me uneasy.

You know, I jokinlgly mentioned about how Io is always lynched Day 2.

VOTE: Io

Maybe he is.

I have been quite confused at how Bk and Io rolls. Bk seems to take the bystander, but his bystander perspective seems working. With Io, not so much...

I will 180 Io later.

That's a strange stance to take imo


Right now, though, I'm willing to sheep Gamma on Transcend, even if it's scum!gamma. Lemme figure out where I want day 2 to go.

Yes, I (usually) don't tunnel. I'm new and know that, and am happy to admit when I'm wrong.

[Joshz]

i dont think people are understanding me due to my typography. i am not insisting rory is town. i think he is the most likely double target, and i think that is enough to warrant him moving to my town side and not my scum side. if i was scum who tried to kill rory... well, as scum i wouldve killed kmd but i suppose thats besides the point. assuming i was scum who tried to kill rory being so direct about scum double targeting him would be VERY risky and not particularly rewarding. rory is not someone that needs to die for scum, his play is not helping town.

i think what im trying to say that nobody is grasping is that im trying to provide an explanation for why i tunnelled rory so hard yesterday and am not lynching him today.

lets stop talking about this now unless i need to repeat myself more for people to get it. kmd, why is culted scum?

[Joshz]

why dont you make a post that has content instead of another one liner that has already been answered, MULTIPLE times?

no seriously everyone should scroll nm's iso i think theres a total word count less than kmd's above post

[Joshz]

no seriously everyone should scroll nm's iso i think theres a total word count less than kmd's above post

So?

i havent scum read him but it disappoints me people can post so little and troll so much and coast through the game. its not like, say, transcend, who actually plays through the dog face. ive never played with nm before and people are acting like this is meta so like im not saying lynch him, just generally annoying :/

[Joshz]

and to address said purple line, the only reason it seems like 'insistence' is because people keep asking me about it... i intended to bring it up briefly and its been question after question when statistically its obvious that rory is the

most likely

(as opposed to

the

as you act like i said) double target. not a single person has suggested someone they think is more likely despite me asking that originally.

[Joshz]

also lets assume that scenario is true and I am scum who tried to kill Rory and failed. lets assume (note: theres none but lets assume) that there was a logical reason i would attempt to direct the other scum team to kill rory while i simultaneously killed rory. this scenario means that i successfully convinced the other scum team to vote rory, therefore disproving people dismissing the idea that a scum team took my advice.

aka im being attacked for two contradicting points and am somehow guilty of both??

[Joshz]

overanalyzing a passing remark, alas.

im happy with my vote on ss. gn.

[Joshz]

Official Vote Count 1.8

nn30 (4)

: culted, BK201, Not_Mafia, Kmd4390

Rory (2)

: Joshz, Io

Gamma Emerald (2)

: Transcend, nn30

Transcend (2)

: Gamma Emerald, SnarkySnowman

Joshz (1)

: Rory

Not Voting (2)

- Realeo, Aristophanes

With 13 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch

You have (expired on 2016-12-22 21:19:39) until deadline.

does anyone still on the nn wagon want to change to rory/gamma? if not, care to explain if/why you still think nn is scum if anything has changed?

people not voting, get on a wagon please.

i think the two wagons that should happen today are gamma and rory

, but if you want to get on nn or transcend fine.

aristophanes, bk, nm in particular, id like to see some thoughts from you if possible. even say you dont have reads if you genuinely dont, but at least say something.

Josh,I found one conflicting post from you regarding Gamma. Before and after this post you defend Gamma, a lot, yet this post implies you're advocating Gamma lynch? Explain.

Wagon =/= lynch. It doesn't matter my personal opinion, Gamma and rory were the good wagons. I was not super confident in town gamma and a lot of the game was scumreading him, so regardless of my opinion it was the time of day we needed to consolidate wagons and by ignoring me obvtown got lynched.

[Joshz]

so regardless of my opinion it was the time of day we needed to consolidate wagons and by ignoring me obvtown got lynched.

But you didn't fight for it?

I mean, I butt head with Bk with the ATN. I tried to shout that there is a common theme between Rory, GE, nn.

But you didn't fight for it? I considered that it's a playstyle issue at first, but you fight like fuuuck with Rory in D2.

a) i did not fight like fuuuck for rory....... we have been over this. i stated why im not voting for rory and even said that if people disagree he was the nk they should vote him because everything i said yesterday stands true and hes almost definitely scum.

b) 624, 677, 680... i argued gammas lynch plenty, and i argued very strongly that i thought rory should be the lynch and not nn.

[Joshz]

i stated why im not voting for rory and even said that if people disagree he was the nk they should vote him because everything i said yesterday stands true and hes almost definitely scum.

This logic is only justifiable if you have a stronger read. Do I miss your stronger read?

pedit: to + infinitive.

do you mean yesterday? rory

today? ss and lesser so bk

[Joshz]

A) I'm not writing him off, and
B) It isn't because of my ego that I'm not voting him, and
C) idc if you scum read me for this but I'm not fucking answering anyrhing else about this because a passing remake has been the topic of discussion for pages and it is stupid and I'm putting an end to it. I have explained everything about this situation multiple times and different people keep asking the same things. Over it lmao just vote me if you think I'm scum or stop talking about it

[Joshz]

It was meant to be a passing remark. Not my fault it blew up. This thread being dead the last few hours is great tho!

Now, bk, give actual reasoning you put ss in the town pile.

[Joshz]

So your current amount of content was not limited?

[Joshz]

Yh

[Joshz]

Happy Hanukkah

[Joshz]

Hi,

Aristophanes, thoughts on ss and nm?

[Joshz]

Hi fitz... I understand kmd but mind saying why you feel culted and nm are town? You subbed into a slot I was comfortable with so I don't have any questions about you directly as of now.

[Joshz]

????

[Joshz]

O oops nvm

I stand by that if you believe rory was not the night kill then he's scum and should be roped.

[Joshz]

F

[Joshz]

nahhh its tempting and im not gonna call you scum for suggesting it but i dont think lynching like that is a good idea

[Joshz]

VOTE: transcend

[Joshz]

good! realeo is town, he shouldnt have many votes. snarky snowman is scum! keep it up!

[Joshz]

spoiler alert?????
asshole

[Joshz]

io/fitz is town

[Joshz]

because io/fitz is town.

since someone is finally going on my ss wagon

VOTE: ss

transcend, not mafia, snarky snowman... too many anti town players

[Joshz]

I did not say rory is town. I said the contrary multiple times. I stated why I think he has a chance to be town and why I'm not voting him

[Joshz]

If I wanted to lynch an obnoxious anti town player not mafia is available. Ss is much scummier.

[Joshz]

You lolhammered scum in our last game togedder

[Joshz]

Hi kuroi. You're scum. Want to confirm that by voting fitz with me?

[Joshz]

Sarcasm is a fun tool.
I don't think wanting to lynch io makes you necessarily scum. Io is a mislynch. Don't waste your time. I'm p sure culted is a mislynch too but not that confident in it... aristophanes might be scum.

[Joshz]

And he has still not replied to my questions

[Joshz]

If I replace into a game I read through it beige opening my role so I can generate real reads in the event I am scum. Not saying it's a bad tell, but it'd get me mislynched a lot of the time personally and that kind of thing had got me mislynched twice.

[Joshz]

This game is half trolls what do u expect

[Joshz]

I like trolls

Trolls like to sheep

Sheep ss, trolls. Dogs are basically shaved sheep.

[Joshz]

The topic is lynching ss

[Joshz]

If I spam it maybe people will listen oo

[Joshz]

internal josh computation about how he is not frustrated and how he hopes realeo will sheep him onto ss[/b]

[Joshz]

realeo, im not frustrated zz

[Joshz]

he could easily just be like nm/ss/culted/fitz and lurk/troll instead, hes already the former. he didnt need to do that in the first place!

[Joshz]

Pretty much just generally doing nothing. A scummier version of not mafia who is doing the same thing I guess?

[Joshz]

I think that's 3 for snarky at least (myself, aristo, and fitz counted). Just from memory I haven't read or anything.

Fitz, can u answer my qs now pls

[Joshz]

Official Vote Count 2.6

SnarkySnowman (5)

- Kmd4390, KuroiXHF, Joshz, Aristophanes, havingfitz

BK201 (1)

- culted

Transcend (1)

- Gamma Emerald

Gamma Emerald (1)

- Transcend

havingfitz (1)

- BK201

Not Voting (2)

- SnarkySnowman, Not_Mafia, Realeo

With 12 players alive, it takes 7 votes to lynch

You have (expired on 2017-01-04 17:20:51) until deadline.

Realized I forgot kuroi aka the reason I went back to ss. Kmd tho? Cool.

[Joshz]

Fitz, can u answer my qs now pls

If you have something directed at me other than the question below...let me know.

Hi fitz... I understand kmd but mind saying why you feel culted and nm are town?

Well no magic bullets or anything. Just when I got through reading the game...I did not have anything wrt them that made me think they were scum. They both had a post or two that made me think they were town but at the same time....I wouldn't say either of them is a strong read. Especially with Not_Mafia who doesn't give you a lot to work with.

Could ya quote the town indicative posts? Culted isn't too much better act wise though not trolly at least.

[Joshz]

I like trolls

Trolls like to sheep

Sheep ss, trolls. Dogs are basically shaved sheep.

Called it

[Joshz]

^

[Joshz]

Not gonna complain too much though because my biggest sr is now flipped and I didn't need to use too too much effort

[Joshz]

VOTE: transcend

[Joshz]

VOTE: Transcend
I've been sick over the weekend. I don't think I've missed too much, but I'll look what I may have missed.

why r u voting transcend

[Joshz]

[quote="In post 1334, Joshz"][/quote]
VOTE: kuroihf

[Joshz]

i was just throwin votes around, though if you could quote where i tr transcend thatd be appreciated because i dont.

[Joshz]

Realeo, scum don't need to try to stay busy in this setup. They have another team to catch.

If that's the case, that means that town would be player who remain inactive.

Which means, according to KMD, inactive player are town.

Because inactive player are town, KMD would never lynch inactive player.

Oops, I forgot. Kmd lead a lynch wagon on SS, who is inactive. My bad.

Spoiler: Notabene

Sorry if you're offended, but in D3, I am 100% in #sarcasmgamestrong mode

Actually that was me

[Joshz]

From other game:

Gonna be in surgery for the next few hours sitting in the office rn so brb

Expect V/LA?

Nah I'm aight it's done now I got all 4 wisdom teeth out

[Joshz]

Nm

[Joshz]

Gamma C is short for Transcend

[Joshz]

HQ

[Joshz]

VOTE: not mafia

[Joshz]

why wouldnt mafia want to lynch the other mafia???

[Joshz]

lets lynch nm instead =P

[Joshz]

you suggested nl. if we dont want to lynch a scumread why not lynch an anti-town troll who hasnt had a post longer than 5 words itt

[Joshz]

also i think scum is more motivated to lynch scum than town here js

[Joshz]

yea me and transcend are ice mafia

[Joshz]

nm is anti town and kuroi is rory

[Joshz]

VOTE: bk

[Joshz]

VOTE: kuroixhf

[Joshz]

we clearly arent doing just fine if we havent lynched scum yet

[Joshz]

VOTE: kmd

we might be onto something yet

[Joshz]

Go for it.

And some of us are doing just fine without scum flips. Or at least coming up with something. Accuracy has been pretty bad, but at least a few people are trying.

Weird wording

+ going with the he flow hasn't been working and kmd is generally under the radar

[Joshz]

Mod, please replace me.

scum

[Joshz]

no, thats a scum sub