Open 680.1 C9++ | Endgame

[RoryMK]

6 pages already?

VOTE: Firescreamer

[RoryMK]

I actually read the game this time.

VOTE: Alchemist21

[RoryMK]

I actually read the game this time.

VOTE: Alchemist21

Alright someone was nice enough to respond to my "Ask me to explain stuff" bait so ill do the same for you.

Whatcha seeing?

not much tbh. I just felt Alchemist's attitude followed up by "I'm nitpicking to gauge reactions" was a bit forced. It's not much but at least it's something. Everything else was fluff to me mostly.

[RoryMK]

Also, the likelyhood of mafia last game being mafia this game will actually probably be unlikely. So I'm pretty confident in the team being green this time around. But TB definitely rolled some of our bloc from last game as red this one. I'm willing to bet on it being FS of all people.

This is pretty terrible tbh. Why would you want to "clear" yourself like this?

All of these posts are bothering me.
Half of them look like coaching. Im not sold on that though.
Fire is putting alot into how he is being perceived. Which isnt a BIG deal but it seems like thats where his effort is right now.

Did scum have daytalk when you were scum? If yes, why would he coach in-thread?

Also, the likelyhood of mafia last game being mafia this game will actually probably be unlikely. So I'm pretty confident in the team being green this time around. But TB definitely rolled some of our bloc from last game as red this one. I'm willing to bet on it being FS of all people.

1. This is phrased as if you were town last game, which you weren't. It's odd that you identify with a townbloc that you weren't really in.

2. Why do you think someone in the townbloc is definitely scum this time? I can dismiss "scum last time won't be scum this time" as a common misconception, but I'm not sure how you're getting this one.

I like Umlaut. Please stay like this.

But would you say FS has been acting differently this game? Is there anything townie he's doing now that you can hard link to the last game?

Expecting anyone to act the same in different games after there is a mental reset and also a literal role reset, and then suggesting that any differences between the two games is negative alignment indicative, is not particularly fruitful. Heck, I even notice my own different playstyles between games even when I pull VT in the different games. It's going to happen.

I would say Alchemist (much more targeted, focused questions), Umlaut (general vibe), Titus (lol where is she?), and shannon (actually answering questions) have all acted differently. Sure, FS has too because he isn't literally dominating the thread peppering everyone with questions.

This is spot on.

[RoryMK]

I'm going to start townreading Brian Skies. I have a feeling he will eventually catch scum or get killed. Good enough reason for now.

VOTE: Comm

I approve of this wagon.

[RoryMK]

Comm: can I get some reads out of you?

[RoryMK]

Why is that shannon?

[RoryMK]

Rorys posts look disingenuous.

Is there a reason you still haven't moved your RVS vote if you think that's true?

Do you have any other reads?

[RoryMK]

@GE, have you seen Titus this quiet as town before? If not join the wagon?

I'd like to step in and say I have seen Titus this quiet before as town. I wouldn't worry about it unless it becomes a pattern throughout the entire game.

[RoryMK]

Rorys posts look disingenuous.

Kinda agree with this. Hard to say if he's just like this on early D1 though.

Rorys posts look disingenuous.

Is there a reason you still haven't moved your RVS vote if you think that's true?

Do you have any other reads?

It also feels like he tried to turn it around on Frank here.

VOTE: Rory

Can you explain where I went wrong by asking Frank 2 questions in an attempt to get him involved?

[RoryMK]

Rorys posts look disingenuous.

Kinda agree with this. Hard to say if he's just like this on early D1 though.

Rorys posts look disingenuous.

Is there a reason you still haven't moved your RVS vote if you think that's true?

Do you have any other reads?

It also feels like he tried to turn it around on Frank here.

VOTE: Rory

Can you explain where I went wrong by asking Frank 2 questions in an attempt to get him involved?

It looks like you're trying to discredit his point against you by challenging his lack of vote.

How am I discrediting his point? I ask him if he has a reason not to move his RVS vote and followup by asking if he has other reads.
Maybe he has a scumread on that player now, and didn't mention it.

[RoryMK]

Some thoughts:

- I love the way Brian Skies plays this game. Solid townread.
- As much as I was liking FireScreamers reads in the pre-game, I am having opposite reads now... Brian Skies, Umlaut are both solid town to me.

@Rory, the above was towards Dave, but I'm really interested on WHAT you support about my wagon. I just pointed out the two things people got all antsy over me for which can be reread in my VERY short ISO. So what do you agree with again? Because you're sliding down any chance of being TR'd for today. That's for sure. At least Daves isn't blindly following something they see as an easy mislynch. To me, you seem less interested in why the wagon is formed on me or even reason to vote me. Just you see something forming and voting it. Am I wrong?

Spoiler: this is my previous post

Also, the likelyhood of mafia last game being mafia this game will actually probably be unlikely. So I'm pretty confident in the team being green this time around. But TB definitely rolled some of our bloc from last game as red this one. I'm willing to bet on it being FS of all people.

This is pretty terrible tbh. Why would you want to "clear" yourself like this?

All of these posts are bothering me.
Half of them look like coaching. Im not sold on that though.
Fire is putting alot into how he is being perceived. Which isnt a BIG deal but it seems like thats where his effort is right now.

Did scum have daytalk when you were scum? If yes, why would he coach in-thread?

Also, the likelyhood of mafia last game being mafia this game will actually probably be unlikely. So I'm pretty confident in the team being green this time around. But TB definitely rolled some of our bloc from last game as red this one. I'm willing to bet on it being FS of all people.

1. This is phrased as if you were town last game, which you weren't. It's odd that you identify with a townbloc that you weren't really in.

2. Why do you think someone in the townbloc is definitely scum this time? I can dismiss "scum last time won't be scum this time" as a common misconception, but I'm not sure how you're getting this one.

I like Umlaut. Please stay like this.

But would you say FS has been acting differently this game? Is there anything townie he's doing now that you can hard link to the last game?

Expecting anyone to act the same in different games after there is a mental reset and also a literal role reset, and then suggesting that any differences between the two games is negative alignment indicative, is not particularly fruitful. Heck, I even notice my own different playstyles between games even when I pull VT in the different games. It's going to happen.

I would say Alchemist (much more targeted, focused questions), Umlaut (general vibe), Titus (lol where is she?), and shannon (actually answering questions) have all acted differently. Sure, FS has too because he isn't literally dominating the thread peppering everyone with questions.

This is spot on.

I think it says pretty clearly what I'm agreeing with. You used faulty logic to try and clear yourself and to scumread other people.

Also, you never answered my question. When you play a game, do you avoid the PT area of the forum on your moderator account?

I didn't see this question before. I'm not sure what you're aiming at here. Unless someone gives me access to PT's, I can't access them. Does that cover your question?
@Comm, please explain to me why you are townreading Frank and Narna

[RoryMK]

prod received. Will catch up soon!

[RoryMK]

I tried reading last night, but I just couldn't focus and I didn't want to do a crappy job. I'm fully aware my input in this game has been pretty crappy, no need to point that out. I'm struggling to get solid reads. Hopefully my catchup will change that.

@Rory, I was just curious as to if you could see the PT's because let's say there was a game with PT's outside of scum chat, if you were able to see it and playing in that game you'd know there'd non-mafia with PT's ongoing. But that's cool. Makes sense to do it that way to prevent things like that.

Also I've had two games with Frank, one as both town and one as both mafia. I'd like to think I got a feel for him. As far as Narna goes? I only had a single game where I was mafia and she was town. I'd like to think I know how town her acts.

Yeah it doesn't work like that. I can only see PT's people give me access to. If I want to play a micro(my queue), I will always make sure to notify the mod that I'm playing so I never get any information I shouldn't get. If I somehow do get information, I will immediately replace out to avoid the game getting compromised.

So what is it about Frank specifically that makes you townread him?
How could you possibly know Narna's scum game if you haven't played with scum Narna? I can understand if you would lean town on him for stuff he did, but a solid townread seems a bit much here. Can you elaborate on why you have such a strong townread on Narna?

---

- I don't really buy GC's case on Brian Skies at all. It takes balls to engage a vocal player like Skies though, so even though I don't support it, I think he's more likely town for it.

---

Spoiler: Alchemist wall

Rorys posts look disingenuous.

Kinda agree with this. Hard to say if he's just like this on early D1 though.

Rorys posts look disingenuous.

Is there a reason you still haven't moved your RVS vote if you think that's true?

Do you have any other reads?

It also feels like he tried to turn it around on Frank here.

VOTE: Rory

Can you explain where I went wrong by asking Frank 2 questions in an attempt to get him involved?

It looks like you're trying to discredit his point against you by challenging his lack of vote.

How am I discrediting his point? I ask him if he has a reason not to move his RVS vote and followup by asking if he has other reads.
Maybe he has a scumread on that player now, and didn't mention it.

It looks like the message you were sending was "if you really thought that you would vote me," and I see that as a subtle discredit attempt.

How do you feel about it, now that I've explained it? Does it still bother you?

[RoryMK]

- GC, you need to get out of that Brian Skies tunnel, he's town and so are you.
- Okay, that Alchemist vote is good. Keep it there.

{Gamma Emerald}
{Green Crayons, Alchemist21, Umlaut, FireScreamer}
{Narna, RoryMK, FrankJaeger, shannon}
{Brian Skies, CommKnight}
{Titus}

Can you explain that huge townread on Gamma? I seriously can't see that at all.

Hey guys gotta read from page 20 and after.
Been super busy irl . if i dont think the time for this game will come i will replace out

Reading tonight. Off work tommorow

Don't forget to address my questions. I will hunt you down.

BTW I noticed Rory was on earlier
What's up?

Why do you keep posting questions to people who aren't posting in the game? I've seen 2 to Frank and now this one. You don't really seem to focus much on people who are actually posting. What's up with that?

I read a lot of AtE and a premature claim. Maybe he's town, maybe he's scum trying to diffuse his own wagon. At the very least I know he's not a PR and probably a safer lynch than anything else that's going to be pushed today.

I honestly couldn't agree more.

VOTE: RoryMK
Talk

I feel like you're attempting to draw away attention of the Commwagon here. If he flips scum I'm going to want you dead.

VOTE: Rory

What happened to your Comm vote?

His reads list is very safe. He inexplicably refused to speculate on why town Dave would be townreading him despite being in a situation where he has to have thought about that. Has been reactive and sort of around but refusing to step out of the nullspace to form a strong opinion on anything.

Nailed it!

515 is interesting - looks like Comm has accused Rory of using his mod access to view the existence of a scum PT???

Did scum have daytalk when you were scum? If yes

, why would he coach in-thread?

This looks like he's dropping a towntell in the thread, which could be intentional. I'm not a fan of it since he could have either referred to the previous game or looked at the mafia goon sample PM in the opening post.

I'm going to start townreading Brian Skies. I have a feeling he will eventually catch scum or get killed. Good enough reason for now.

This is the basis of his townread on me, and it feels disingenuous. I feel like he's trying to pocket me. I also get the feeling he could be trying to buddy Umlaut as well.

Feels pretty mild for you to switch your vote to me after the reasoning you had for voting Comm. But okay.

[RoryMK]

Town

Green Crayons
Umlaut
Brian Skies
Titus
shannon

Unsure/Null

FireScreamer
Narna
davesaz
FrankJaeger

Scum

CommKnight
Gamma Emerald
Alchemist21

[RoryMK]

Umlaut has been a solid townread for me since the beginning of the game when he was grilling Comm about his faulty logic. He hasn't done anything to make me doubt him after that.
I started townreading Titus for her "stop this crap, no one cares" comment. Because the argument had been going on for so long and was in fact distracting from scumhunting, I feel like scum Titus would not make this comment and let them argue for the sake of arguing. Especially because Titus wasn't really invested in the game.

[RoryMK]

If Comm would flip town, I would have to admit I was wrong about Gamma trying to distract people from the Comm wagon. I suppose that's a bit of an associative.
I would definitely need to reread some people.

[RoryMK]

What happened to your Comm vote?

I was in limbo with my Umlaut/Comm reads and Gamma's vote reminded me that you were in this game, so I decided to take out my frustration on a different scumread.

Feels pretty mild for you to switch your vote to me after the reasoning you had for voting Comm. But okay.

Well, you haven't been here and had like, 12 posts. What do you expect?

I certainly didn't expect you to give up on your belief to vote someone with like, 12 posts. Especially after you kept discussing with Crayons earlier, I didn't think you would disengage so soon.

[RoryMK]

If you thought Umlaut could be scum why didn't you vote him instead of me?

[RoryMK]

Because I was scumreading you first and think you're buddying him.

I hadn't posted for a long time at that point. Umlaut does something you think he's scum for and you vote me instead? That doesn't really seem logical to me.

Why did you not pressure Umlaut for it immediately?

[RoryMK]

Because I was scumreading you first and think you're buddying him.

I hadn't posted for a long time at that point. Umlaut does something you think he's scum for and you vote me instead? That doesn't really seem logical to me.

Why did you not pressure Umlaut for it immediately?

I

did

pressure him for it immediately.

I think Umlaut could be scum. I think you're scummy and you're buddying Umlaut (which means I still think he could be town). The second one trumps the first.

Can you point me to where you did? Phone posting is a pain...

How am I buddying Umlaut? By townreading him? I don't think I even mentioned him after expressing a townread on him very early in the game.

[RoryMK]

If Comm would flip town, I would have to admit I was wrong about Gamma trying to distract people from the Comm wagon. I suppose that's a bit of an associative.
I would definitely need to reread some people.

And what's your reason for scumreading me?

I very easily townread you in the other game. From the start of the new game, I feel like your attempts to scumhunt weren't genuine. Also I felt like you didn't look good in the exchange with Crayons. I guess it's mostly a gut thing? I can't really explain it very well...

[RoryMK]

Can you point me to where you did? Phone posting is a pain...

Spoiler:

It's too early to lynch and I think we've gotten what we can out of this wagon. The premature claim is also making me think CK really is just like this, so I probably have to meta-dive him at some point for comparison.

So, your read has changed just because he claimed VT...or what?

Why do you think it's too early to lynch?

Half the day left? If you think you found scum, you lynch it. Why screw around for half a day and risk getting a shitty deadline scramble lynch?

You don't think scum can do that? Did you not really believe in the points you argued against him before? How am I supposed to feel about you just bailing at the first sight of a non-PR claim and not just think you're PR-shopping now?

Feel whatever you feel about it, don't ask me.

I just want to confirm with you whether the main reason you've lost your fervor for a CommKnight lynch is his claim.

Let's put it this way. He's still voting (or cross-voting) his townread just to push him to claim, with the unreasonable expectation that people will unvote if the claim is 'believable.' This is a semi-open setup. What claim isn't going to be believable as the first claim of the game? And claims don't make alignment anyway (unless it's a mason).

But maybe I just have unrealistic expectations of what town play should be and should just expect everyone to be a clown.

Also, if I didn't think he would flip scum, I wouldn't be advocating for his lynch. But your whole attitude about this does make me reconsider.

Okay thanks. I'm still very confused why you decided to vote me after that entire exchange but I don't think explaining it again will help me understand.

[RoryMK]

^Umlaut, what're your thoughts on this?

The asking about daytalk is weird, I have no idea why Rory would think that. I guess it's worth pursuing but it's not something to hang a case on by itself.

Saying his townread on you "feels disingenuous" isn't really useful by itself. What feels disingenuous about it?

I never play open games and I am a big fan of daytalk. I didn't realize open games don't allow daytalk, or at least this setup doesn't.
That's my explanation, for what it's worth.

[RoryMK]

I'm starting to think Rory's just like this. Not scumreading him as much now.

What do you mean "like this"?

Does anyone have a read on Frank? I don't think he's done anything indicative yet, but if someone's seen something one way or the other I'd like to know. I'd rather engage him directly but there's a chance he might replace out and I'd rather not keep waiting like I kept waiting for Beeboy.

I think we can only wait for him to return or get replaced at this point. Which probably won't be long?

[RoryMK]

336 is kind of confusingly phrased, because "I have a feeling he will eventually catch scum or get killed" is not really a reason to townread someone. I have an idea of what this actually meant but I'd rather hear Rory's explanation first.

I'm not really sure what needs explaining here?

[RoryMK]

Also, my experience with Frank says he's not active when scum and is more active as town. It also says that he's just as quick as I am to pick fights with someone when scum (notice last game when I grilled him for his poor play in our first game together and he went right back at me, he doesn't mind fighting as scum but when we're town, he's more on the fence and not very aggressive in his stances).

So I'm willing to place a bet on Frank being town, anyone care to bet against me? I'll gladly take your money (or in this case, TR'ing ability points).

Are you saying you're townreading Frank for being active? I think it's pretty strange you'd take bets on a slot being town who had so little input in the game.

well compared to last game

So we shouldn't compare your play between two games, because they're similar; but we should compare another player's play between two games, because they're different?

Becuase I admit to playing like town when I'm scum to make my similar play unreadable. You'll never know if I'm a manipulating scum or insane (but correct) town.

However, FS has no excuse for being less proactive if he rolls town again. See the difference? I was scum playing like a town-me would play. If he's town, then why would he act differently than he did as town last time?

I think the way you're pushing FS to a claim is very scummy. It's like you have the feeling he has a PR and you want to make sure he does so you can decide if he's worth the kill or not. I don't like this at all. If you're not scum, you're being very antitown about this whole thing.

[RoryMK]

Gamma, who is your top scumread?

[RoryMK]

The asking about daytalk is weird, I have no idea why Rory would think that. I guess it's worth pursuing but it's not something to hang a case on by itself.

I never play open games and I am a big fan of daytalk. I didn't realize open games don't allow daytalk, or at least this setup doesn't.
That's my explanation, for what it's worth.

It occurred to me that this was verifiable, so I checked.

Spoiler: PolitiFact ranks this statement "Mostly True"

A review of Radja's topic list shows he played in only a single Open Queue game (604), it was in 2015, and he replaced out during early Day 1. Under his prior account, StubbsKVM, he played in five Open Queue games (505, 508, 512, 522, 603).

Only one of these six games (512) was C9++, it was nearly four years ago, and he replaced out of that game during Day 1 as well. It did not have daytalk, but Stubbs was town-aligned and could plausibly not have realized this.

I think the statement "I never play open games" is honest and substantially true given this record.

I expected it to be true, but it was worth taking a look anyway.

What confuses me is what the statement "I am a big fan of daytalk" has to do with anticipating daytalk in this game. In general most games don't have daytalk, and being a fan of something doesn't make it more likely unless you're the mod.

What I mean is, because I love daytalk myself, I kind of assume others do too and I expect there to be daytalk in every game. If that makes sense?
How did you find my old account?

[RoryMK]

Gamma, who is your top scumread?

No clue. I've been trying to get people to bounce questions back and forth so I can for hard opinions on things.

so you don't have a scumread at all? Or what do I need to gather from this?

[RoryMK]

336 is kind of confusingly phrased, because "I have a feeling he will eventually catch scum or get killed" is not really a reason to townread someone. I have an idea of what this actually meant but I'd rather hear Rory's explanation first.

I'm not really sure what needs explaining here?

You said "I'm going to start townreading Brian Skies. I feel like he will eventually catch scum or be killed. Good enough reason for now."

How is the second sentence a

reason

to townread someone?

it's not a reason, it's more of a followup on what was a small townread at the time. I still feel like he will either find scum or get killed. He's the type of player I wouldn't want to have around as scum.

[RoryMK]

Also, I've noted Brian has been wagon hopping a lot lately.

What's the point of this? Is wagon hopping AI?

[RoryMK]

336 is kind of confusingly phrased, because "I have a feeling he will eventually catch scum or get killed" is not really a reason to townread someone. I have an idea of what this actually meant but I'd rather hear Rory's explanation first.

I'm not really sure what needs explaining here?

You said "I'm going to start townreading Brian Skies. I feel like he will eventually catch scum or be killed. Good enough reason for now."

How is the second sentence a

reason

to townread someone?

it's not a reason, it's more of a followup on what was a small townread at the time. I still feel like he will either find scum or get killed. He's the type of player I wouldn't want to have around as scum.

So what is a "good enough reason for now"?

a small townread and the fact that he I think he will catch scum or die in the process.

[RoryMK]

Town

Green Crayons
Umlaut
Brian Skies
Titus
shannon

Unsure/Null

FireScreamer
Narna
davesaz
FrankJaeger

Scum

CommKnight
Gamma Emerald
Alchemist21

This hasn't changed. Although I'm starting to townread you now.

[RoryMK]

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

If that's your real opinion, I'm even more convinced you tried to distract from the Comm wagon by voting me.
You also had no problem voting Firescreamer earlier.

[RoryMK]

too tired to catch up today. I need sleep

[RoryMK]

V/LA for a day

[RoryMK]

Shit I'm 30 pages behind. Had a busy weekend. I'll try to catch up later, if I can't find the time, I'll do it tomorrow.

[RoryMK]

VOTE: Comm

I have reasons in my notes which I will post later.

[RoryMK]

To be honest, I didn't completely catch up on the game yet, because I thought I might get vigged and didn't want to read 30+ pages to find out I was dead.

[RoryMK]

Anyway, here's why I want Comm dead as soon as possible.

This was my original reasoning to scumread him day 1:

Also, my experience with Frank says he's not active when scum and is more active as town. It also says that he's just as quick as I am to pick fights with someone when scum (notice last game when I grilled him for his poor play in our first game together and he went right back at me, he doesn't mind fighting as scum but when we're town, he's more on the fence and not very aggressive in his stances).

So I'm willing to place a bet on Frank being town, anyone care to bet against me? I'll gladly take your money (or in this case, TR'ing ability points).

Are you saying you're townreading Frank for being active? I think it's pretty strange you'd take bets on a slot being town who had so little input in the game.

well compared to last game

So we shouldn't compare your play between two games, because they're similar; but we should compare another player's play between two games, because they're different?

Becuase I admit to playing like town when I'm scum to make my similar play unreadable. You'll never know if I'm a manipulating scum or insane (but correct) town.

However, FS has no excuse for being less proactive if he rolls town again. See the difference? I was scum playing like a town-me would play. If he's town, then why would he act differently than he did as town last time?

I think the way you're pushing FS to a claim is very scummy. It's like you have the feeling he has a PR and you want to make sure he does so you can decide if he's worth the kill or not. I don't like this at all. If you're not scum, you're being very antitown about this whole thing.

I also made this remark:

VOTE: RoryMK
Talk

I feel like you're attempting to draw away attention of the Commwagon here. If he flips scum I'm going to want you dead.

Gamma left the wagon Comm wagon at a crucial time to vote me. This eventually turned into the following event:

Also, I've noted Brian has been wagon hopping a lot lately.

What's the point of this? Is wagon hopping AI?

Yes, It can mean he's trying to run people up for claims D1.

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

If that's your real opinion, I'm even more convinced you tried to distract from the Comm wagon by voting me.
You also had no problem voting Firescreamer earlier.

Gamma came back with this crappy reason for his unvote:

VOTE: Gamma Emerald

If that's your real opinion, I'm even more convinced you tried to distract from the Comm wagon by voting me.
You also had no problem voting Firescreamer earlier.

I will accept that claim. I wasn't ready for a claim, so I explored other options. You can read it how you like.

I'm 100% convinced Gamma tried to derail the Comm wagon by unvoting and the way he acted after I called him out for it makes me really convinced Comm is scum here.

[RoryMK]

Gamma Emerald

(7):

RoryMK

,

Alchemist21

,

Narna

,

FireScreamer

,

Titus

,

Green Crayons

,

Brian Skies

-- LYNCH!!!

Titus

(4):

Almost50

,

Umlaut

,

davesaz

,

CommKnight

davesaz

(1):

Gamma Emerald

Commknight

(1):

Firebringer

So Narna and Rory were early on Gamma.

I'd like to point out that I wasn't early on Gamma at all.

Vote Count

Gamma Emerald

(5): Narna, FireScreamer, Umlaut, Alchemist21, RoryMK

FireScreamer

(3): CommKnight, Titus, Brian Skies

Alchemist21

(2): Green Crayons, shannon

Titus

(1): davesaz

Not Voting

(2): Gamma Emerald, Firebringer

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2017-05-03 20:06:48)

Everyone else left the Gamma wagon, but I never did. It is interesting to note that out of the 5 people on the original wagon, Umlaut wasn't part of the actual lynch. I still have 30 pages of catching up to do. Currently these are my reads:

town

: Firescreamer, Green Crayons, Firebringer

leaning town

: Almost50, Umlaut, Brian Skies, Titus
Null: Narna, davesaz

scum

: Comm

My other scumread flipped town cop so guess I was wrong about that.

[RoryMK]

Also LOL at Rory and Umlaut. Speaking of bussing above, check last game. I wasn't afraid to go after either of my scum buddies. In fact I recall willing to trade one for GC by trying to connect the two. I legit TR'd a scummy. I'm not perfect and even my previous games has me TR'ing one scummy usually out of a 3-man team.

Why are you LOL-ing at me?

[RoryMK]

Nope. You should vote Comm

[RoryMK]

I'm still convinced this is POE. Comm-dave-Narna.

[RoryMK]

Dave is at L-1 though. I probably shouldn't hammer him right away.

[RoryMK]

I don't hammer without a claim. Especially in this setup.

[RoryMK]

Comm back to Comm, FS.

[RoryMK]

did Titus just claim scum?

[RoryMK]

She's yelling at the vig for not shooting dave and then votes dave.

I'm very interested to see what reasoning she has there.

[RoryMK]

also a good point.

[RoryMK]

Also I hope MathBlade didn't actually read the game because it's pretty sad to die before getting to make a single post.

[RoryMK]

as far as I'm concerned we can give him the benefit of the doubt for this day at least. If he has another shot he can shoot mafia.
Let scum in the dark about whether or not he has another shot. We'll see if they think he's worth killing

[RoryMK]

VOTE: Titus

[RoryMK]

Titus, if there's no SK, Dave is a vig. You realize that, right??

[RoryMK]

After all, if Dave's a vig, he shoots me, no questions asked. I'm a claimed VT and he's tunnelled on me for so long. Yet, he doesn't shoot me. Nope. He needs a place to be safe. Dave shooting anyone but me doesn't make sense for a vig.

yeah, that's not how this works.

[RoryMK]

After all, if Dave's a vig, he shoots me, no questions asked. I'm a claimed VT and he's tunnelled on me for so long. Yet, he doesn't shoot me. Nope. He needs a place to be safe. Dave shooting anyone but me doesn't make sense for a vig.

yeah, that's not how this works.

It's exactly how it works. Yet Dave is reliable to only pass the buck and is afraid to actually stick his neck out. But ok, fuck it up again.

There is no way we're lynching a claimed vig. I feel like we're back in the Pokemon game were you stubbornly kept pushing for a lynch on pretty much confirmed town as scum.

[RoryMK]

not lynching town to prove a point. Let's just kill Titus and be done with it.

Also dave isn't claiming either.

[RoryMK]

My reads are as bad as they were before the restart :/

We're in Mylo right? I only have Narna as a non-town read right now.
I think I need to reread on some stuff. I'm still amazed Titus flipped town.

I don't think FB is going to be scum here and dave is pretty much conftown right?
That only leaves Narna/A50/Umlaut for me.

[RoryMK]

I suppose we wait for dave before we claim?

Pedit: you drunk?

[RoryMK]

poe really. You're the only one I'm not townreading. Which means I'm already wrong about another one of my townreads.

[RoryMK]

On Gamma d1: RoryMK,

Alchemist21

, Narna,

FireScreamer

,

Titus

,

Green Crayons

,

Brian Skies

Off Gamma d1: Almost50,

Umlaut

,

davesaz

,

CommKnight

,

Gamma Emerald

, Firebringer

On CommKnight d2:

Umlaut

, RoryMK, Firebringer, Narna,

FireScreamer

,

Titus

Off CommKnight d2:

CommKnight

,

Brian Skies

, Almost50,

davesaz

,

Green Crayons

On Titus d3:

davesaz

, RoryMK,

Umlaut

, Almost50, Firebringer
Off Titus d3:

Titus

,

Green Crayons

, Narna, Almost50

---

If I had to guess the team from this alone I'd say RoryMK and Firebringer. RoryMK hasn't really done much and I'd have no problem believing he's scum, but I've been sort of leaning town on Firebringer up until the hammer yesterday so I have to consider that.

Umlaut and Firebringer were both off the scum wagon and on both town wagons.
If Narna isn't scum, that would make the Gamma wagon all-town.

[RoryMK]

The fact that Almost50 was off all 3 lynches is also very interesting.

[RoryMK]

How likely is it scum didn't bus Gamma?

[RoryMK]

I really don't think almost is scum. The way he asked to be lynched instead of town Titus makes me pretty confident he's town here.

[RoryMK]

I'll try and do some rereading later.

[RoryMK]

I just reread Gamma and found he had almost 0 interactions with Narna before making a readslist here:

Alright:
davesaz - I'm a bit put off by how much he townreads me. Slight scum.
Narna - The stream of consciousness feeling I'm getting feels towny.
shannon - Reads seems a bit disconnected, slight scum read
FrankJaeger - Not much from him right now, null rn.
Alchemist21 - Seems town, though a little dense.
Green Crayons - Speaks rather freely. Towny.
Brian Skies - I had some issues with his actions earlier but he explained himself well, and he reached a similar conclusion about GC/Alchemist, so now somewhat Town.
Titus - Seems disengaged rn. Null-town.
RoryMK - Seems disengaged, but he passed by the thread a little while ago, so null-scum.
Umlaut - Not sure about him, I feel like we're resonating well on CommKnight, but not much else
CommKnight - The comments about not lynching his former scumbuddies is really weird, but I'm more disturbed by the voting of a townread for a claim. Would vote, but I am not ready for a claim right now.
FireScreamer - Seems like town, do like the open discussion of scumplay as a sign of not caring about preserving scum strategies.

Lists Narna as town.

After not interacting at all he proceeds to post this:

I have no idea what to think of Narna. He seems extremely abrasive this game.

Proceeds to not interact with Narna and then gives another reads list

These are my reads as they sit
Town: Rory, Titus, shannon, CommKnight, Alchemist, Firebringer, Green Crayons, Brian Skies
Nullscum: FS, Narna
Scum: Umlaut, Davesaz
Narna is nullscum since I've never seen him as scum but this doesn't look like his townplay.
VOTE: Firescreamer

now he's suddenly scum.

[RoryMK]

Alright:
davesaz - I'm a bit put off by how much he townreads me. Slight scum.
Narna - The stream of consciousness feeling I'm getting feels towny.
shannon - Reads seems a bit disconnected, slight scum read
FrankJaeger - Not much from him right now, null rn.
Alchemist21 - Seems town, though a little dense.
Green Crayons - Speaks rather freely. Towny.
Brian Skies - I had some issues with his actions earlier but he explained himself well, and he reached a similar conclusion about GC/Alchemist, so now somewhat Town.
Titus - Seems disengaged rn. Null-town.
RoryMK - Seems disengaged, but he passed by the thread a little while ago, so null-scum.
Umlaut - Not sure about him, I feel like we're resonating well on CommKnight, but not much else
CommKnight - The comments about not lynching his former scumbuddies is really weird, but I'm more disturbed by the voting of a townread for a claim. Would vote, but I am not ready for a claim right now.
FireScreamer - Seems like town, do like the open discussion of scumplay as a sign of not caring about preserving scum strategies.

Starts with a nullread on Umlaut, but "resonating well"

I'm not sure about Umlaut
I've been Town reading him since we resonated on the probability thing

then calls Umlaut town for resonating well later.

I'm not sure about Umlaut
I've been Town reading him since we resonated on the probability thing

Why is being able to count alignment indicative?

I felt that the fact we were thinking similarly was a sign of him being town

Then this happens:

Gamma, who on your wagon do you think is scum?

UNVOTE: Gamma Emerald

Will reconsider this when I get back.

this is nasty
VOTE: Umlaut

followed by

Gamma, who on your wagon do you think is scum?

UNVOTE: Gamma Emerald

Will reconsider this when I get back.

this is nasty
VOTE: Umlaut

What's nasty about it?

Also, who *did* you think was scum on your wagon?

Asks about scumreads on my wagon
Leaves my wagon

You can't tell me something isn't up.

Other than him, I don't really have scumreads on people from my wagon.

Looking back I don't like Umlaut's initial vote on me. It feels like an opportunistic push started during a period where I was having some trouble defending myself.

More discrediting of Umlaut

These are my reads as they sit
Town: Rory, Titus, shannon, CommKnight, Alchemist, Firebringer, Green Crayons, Brian Skies
Nullscum: FS, Narna
Scum: Umlaut, Davesaz
Narna is nullscum since I've never seen him as scum but this doesn't look like his townplay.
VOTE: Firescreamer

keeps Umlaut as a scumread

Gamma you want to claim since you are already dead?

I'm still a one shot roleblocker

If that's true do you want to give us any reads at all?

Titus is scum, but other than that not much has changed beyond that.

Why would scum titus build you as a counterwagon when the RB could confirm you at any point?

Titus is emulating her previous play to appear Town, but the facade has cracked as Umlaut pointed out.

Then uses umlaut's reasoning to start scumreading Titus?

[RoryMK]

As for Firebringer:

Gamma repeatedly tries to engage FrankJaeger, who isn't even in the game.

Frank and Dave, any thoughts?

Yo Frank what's up

When Firebringer replaces in, it takes a while but first read:

Firebringer seems a bit unfocused, IIRC that's a town sign for him, but I need to check that because my source may be wrong. I'm not sure since FB decided to make things wonky.

These are my reads as they sit
Town: Rory, Titus, shannon, CommKnight, Alchemist, Firebringer, Green Crayons, Brian Skies
Nullscum: FS, Narna
Scum: Umlaut, Davesaz
Narna is nullscum since I've never seen him as scum but this doesn't look like his townplay.
VOTE: Firescreamer

keeps him as a townread

[RoryMK]

I've got dave as the vig and shannon/A50 I've ruled out as scum.

So to conclude:

Gamma didn't have much interactions with Narna and Firebringer.
He had some with Umlaut, but also not much.

Gamma changed his read on Narna from Town to scum for no apparent reason.
Same thing happens with Umlaut, who goes from a townread to a solid scumread for unvoting him.

I'd say it's probably Narna/Umlaut for me.
VOTE: Narna

Let's start here.

[RoryMK]

I am a vigilante.

REAHEHEHEHEEEELYYY!!! A full Vig or 1-shot??

I read that as Ace Ventura saying it.

[RoryMK]

I'm fine lynching Narna or Firebringer, so I guess this is who we agree on

VOTE: Narna

@Rory: Why would Scum!Umlaut unvote Town!FB like that? To me Umlaut looks the townier of the two, but I'm happy we agree Narna is scum here.

not sure what you mean exactly?

[RoryMK]

I don't understand how that makes me scum. That looks like exactly the progression you'd expect if he wanted a reason to call me scum but actually knew I was town.

I can kind of see the point with Narna, but then it's pretty clear the scumteam consists of one of {Narna, RoryMK} and one of {Almost50, Firebringer, Umlaut}. So of course you're going to say Narna is scum. Personally I'm most sure it's not me or Almost.

Note this is

another

reason we need to know conclusively if Dave is full vig, because

it's not quite mylo

if he is since he can take one more shot and hope to get us to 1:2 lylo. If which case we should just lynch one of Narna or RoryMK and he can shoot the other one if we're wrong. Whereas if he is one-shot we need to get it right.

What makes you say it HAS to be one of Narna/me and one of the other three?

[RoryMK]

I am a vigilante.

what the hell is this

[RoryMK]

I'm a VT by the way.

[RoryMK]

I am a vigilante.

REAHEHEHEHEEEELYYY!!! A full Vig or 1-shot??

I read that as Ace Ventura saying it.

That's how I meant it. dave crumbed vig on D1 and claimed on D2 and Firebringer never thought of bringing it up before now? Furthermore, where are the kills from Vig!Firebringer?

I'm fine lynching Narna or Firebringer, so I guess this is who we agree on

VOTE: Narna

@Rory: Why would Scum!Umlaut unvote Town!FB like that? To me Umlaut looks the townier of the two, but I'm happy we agree Narna is scum here.

not sure what you mean exactly?

You are implying Umlaut might be scum with Narna, and thus FB must be Town in that case. Umlaut had his vote on FB. Then he did this:

UNVOTE: Firebringer

Don't want a lynch before we've claimed or decided not to.

At that time I had my vote on Narna already, so pushing FB as the counter wagon would have been a better option.

Okay, I can see your point now.
I'm going to be really surprised if Firebringer ends up being scum though. I had him as a solid townread pretty fast.

[RoryMK]

Can we get a prod on Narna?

[RoryMK]

Please?

[RoryMK]

We'll never reach 100 pages at this rate.

I didn't know we were going for such a mark. I only want to get scum lynched today and get it over with.

[RoryMK]

Well, I'm not totally convinced it's Narna over Rory, which makes FB the safer lynch because I'm pretty well convinced it's not you. Rory has been only semi-present for the whole game in a way that makes it not very hard to avoid scumtelling. And on closer reading he seems to have a longtime townread on Firebringer that he never mentioned before today.

That could be true. I got that townread by catching up during Night 1 when Gamma had flipped scum. I remember thinking there were interactions between Fire/Gamma that made me rule them out as partners. I've tried searching for the exact posts but I haven't been able to find them. So I'm very unsure about FB now.

I'd like dave to weigh in on Firebringer.

[RoryMK]

For 100 pages! I'll get serious in a minute. I was busy.

long minute

[RoryMK]

Narna hasn't. Can we lynch Narna yet? We're not getting anywhere like this.

[RoryMK]

Narna hasn't. Can we lynch Narna yet? We're not getting anywhere like this.

My man, you're just as guilty for us "not getting anywhere". You won't compromise on Firebringer and Umlaut won't compromise on Narna. I could do either.

Well, dave has only mentioned willingness to vote Narna and hasn't taken a stance on Firebringer.
And Narna... well yeah...

So me compromising on Firebringer wouldn't get us anywhere either.

[RoryMK]

Narna hasn't. Can we lynch Narna yet? We're not getting anywhere like this.

Where is it you're trying to get? I'm trying to get to a town win, and I'd rather take all day to plan a trip there than just go wherever we can get quickly.

We have 6 days on the clock and we don't even have a claim from Narna yet. Putting her at L-1 right now is

stupid.

What's your rush?

For me Narna is obvscum and has been stalling this game to get closer to the deadline. I'm not in a rush, there's just no way my read on Narna is going to change.

[RoryMK]

FB didn't hammer Narna.

So FB is either town or Narna is his partner.

Unless I'm forgetting something?

[RoryMK]

Oh wait for some reason I thought Narna was at L-1

[RoryMK]

I can't see how it isn't Mario right now.

that replace out though... I really want to know why he replaced out after this is over because that was really not okay...

Dave didn't kill as he couldn't win by making another kill, right?

Is there anything we need to wait for or can we end this game?

[RoryMK]

Sorry Mario, there is just no way I'm lynching A50.

Especially after how day 4 ended, you replaced into an obvscum slot. I'm sorry for that, but I don't think there's anything you can do to change my mind.

If anything, there was a small chance it could be Umlaut, but after you came out of the gates with a case on A50 that pretty much sealed the deal for me

[RoryMK]

me holding the hammer and you calling me scum is probably not helping you.

I'm conftown now yay.

[RoryMK]

It's only because I respect you after our last game that I haven't hammered yet Mario. If you have anything left to say, now would be a good time.

[RoryMK]

VOTE: Mario

You're probably right.
Time to end this game.

It was a fun game. Sorry if we lost

[RoryMK]

Can you open dead unspoilered PT?

GG Umlaut.should have stuck with my Original read.

So why did FB replace out??

[RoryMK]

At least I got 2/3 scum right :/

I shouldn't have thrown away my initial reads on both Titus and Firebringer.