Mini Normal 2102: Mafia à la Mode! (Game Complete)

[RCEnigma]

Skitter who do I vote?

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: RCE Nice to see you here! Won’t ever forget 1924.

Yes, a good year it was.

[RCEnigma]

My page 1 post game clout read. Vex is scum.

[RCEnigma]

And I found my lock town too. Nice!

[RCEnigma]

As if my lock town couldn't get more Towny

VOTE: Vex

[RCEnigma]

1.) Getting out of rvs isn't inherently townie, people just say it's townie because they dislike rvs

B) no one ever cares about rvs votes unless it's to nitpick for a scum case. These won't matter in 20 pages.

[RCEnigma]

So Lynch the lurkers.

[RCEnigma]

Have we played together vex?

[RCEnigma]

Ahh, to be fair I think I've only been third party in your games lol. I feel like I play to my wincon well as third party whereas I'm pretty transparent as town.

Knowing my scumgame I feel like I've already spewed. But that's just my role pm talking.

[RCEnigma]

Morality has 1.5 strikes already. It's hard to give the other .5 since he's pocketing someone that isn't me.

[RCEnigma]

(Haha! Because I changed my vote a bunch of times, no one has noticed that my partners skitter and skellen haven't posted yet! All according to plan!)

Quote for post game.

[RCEnigma]

That's strike 5 VOTE: Morality

[RCEnigma]

So I told myself I will 100% Lynch morality if he: claims miller, softs traitor/sk, hints at any kind of IC status.

3 for 3.

[RCEnigma]

The Mason claim was likely in jest but strike 1. Simultaneously pocketing bef and drawing a Hardline between bef and Mizzy/Tris without anything concrete to make that claim on. It suggests he's trying to dictate the gamestate which I expect from scum morality.

Then the IC thing, but at this point one of us claims it every game together so that's a thing. It's more the point that I wasn't going to be swayed by it coming into the game, though I expected it.

[RCEnigma]

Miller yeah.

[RCEnigma]

So I told myself I will 100% Lynch morality if he: claims miller, softs traitor/sk, hints at any kind of IC status.

3 for 3.

This is also kind of weak, because I do this as town, so it’s effectively a PL.

And I have never softed traitor as non town.

You would do it as scum or town, what matters is the context and in this case the context is the playerlist.

[RCEnigma]

I want people to go and look at any of my scum games.

I never post this much as scum, but I do it often as town, this early at least. I generally post more as town than I do scum, but I have a tendency to hard lurk out when I’m town and not invested.

Mini normal 2053. You absolutely did hyperpost when pressed by RC and I threw in my suspicions.

I don’t think I’ve ever claimed BP as scum before either, so that throws a wrench at RCE.

My Morality account is literally created so I can do insane maniacal stuff, so using meta for FL is completely irrelevant. RCE has even played against ScumMorality and it wasn’t anything like this.

Because you haven't done it as scum doesn't make you incapable of doing it as scum.

Also mini normal 2053 your miller claim came from your initial assessment of the informed modifiers in play. Who am I to say it can't be the case here?

Yes, yes it was like this.

Also, the fact that RCE is in this game and I didnt go out of my way to make sure to play around him proves I am already Mothafucking Conf Town Boon.

Yeah, I’m playing the mothafuckingconftownboon.

You may all call me your emperor.

You didn't play around me in pfup until late into the game. You didn't play around me in anime Upick or in EICN. Anime uPick I even successfully called you out, it detailed the Lynch from one scum onto you and you still got away.

[RCEnigma]

Also Tris....ongoing games...

[RCEnigma]

Bef how would you like to be my pocket?

[RCEnigma]

Regarding Morality I hate his 1-shot bp Miller claim going by the implications of it and my intuitive reaction to that is to lynch that asap. I can see two motivations with these though, considering who made this claim it's most likely fake anyway, so I don't think this is that much alignment indicative.

@RCE:
How was he trying to dictate the gamestate with his tris/Mizzy association?

His defensive behaviour after RCE started scumreading him was more surprising and looks more shady, however I also wouldn't see it coming from FL.

@Morality:
Why do you think there is at least one scum on your wagon? Why wouldn't scum stay away from pushing you early as you are according to yourself (at least FL!self lol) so hard to lynch on D1?

Firstly don't read Morality the same way you would read FL, he's being honest there. They aren't technically the same player.

That said it wasn't the Tris/Mizzy association itself, it's that he threw that in as a hard read to push that bef is town.

Just throwing it out like that when most slots are unsure is an intentional plant. It gets people pairing those two whenever they start to form their own reads, all he needs is for someone to echo it for him.

Again you can't really read into his play from the FL lens. If you've ever seen death note he is absolutely playing to his Kira persona. Meaning he is trying to think a step ahead.

There is an element of manipulation (including emotional) in order to get ahead. So I agree his response and claim is a front and as town he absolutely would not put town at a disadvantage like that.

The only thing he's trying to accomplish with the claim is to avoid a Lynch today.

[RCEnigma]

5) Using the throw shit everywhere to see what sticks method
6) Using how he's played other games as an excuse for him not to be scummy

I didn't quote #2 but what makes his jailkeeper claim final for you considering he already lied about the bp claim?(but hasn't walked back the miller part).

5) he does this as either alignment, does that affect your read?
6) why wouldn't he use meta to back up his play? Why haven't you challenged any of his self meta? Wouldn't you like to see for yourself if he is being truthful or blowing hot air?

[RCEnigma]

To be fair he has recently fooled me as scum.

[RCEnigma]

@RCE - After Overkill 2, I NEVER claim something super scummy in my first post anymore.

I'm about to go check if 2053 was before or after Overkill 2. In case you would like to rescind this.

[RCEnigma]

@RCE - After Overkill 2, I NEVER claim something super scummy in my first post anymore.

I'm about to go check if 2053 was before or after Overkill 2. In case you would like to rescind this.

Are you talking about my scumMorality game?

Because that was this year. Overkill 2 was last year because I got the scummie for it.

Yes. I meant 2058 but still yes.

[RCEnigma]

Firstly don't read Morality the same way you would read FL, he's being honest there. They aren't technically the same player.

That said it wasn't the Tris/Mizzy association itself, it's that he threw that in as a hard read to push that bef is town.

Just throwing it out like that when most slots are unsure is an intentional plant. It gets people pairing those two whenever they start to form their own reads, all he needs is for someone to echo it for him.

There is an element of manipulation (including emotional) in order to get ahead. So I agree his response and claim is a front and as town he absolutely would not put town at a disadvantage like that.

The only thing he's trying to accomplish with the claim is to avoid a Lynch today.

It's a bit weird, but guess I have to come around getting a grasp on this persona then.

Alright I think I get your thought here, the fact that he wasn't pushing this narrative since his opening anymore was the point that bothered me as I kind of thought he would try to establish that more forceful in the room as it wasn't really picked on by anyone besides maybe Mizzy. But that might be because I was assuming the FL mindset here.

I agree with the last point but at the same time that's what makes me wonder. Neither does such a executed claim might ensure survival nor does it force a counterclaim and it would buy one day at most anyway. It looks so like suboptimal play unless that's what he has been banking on, but by my limited experience that's in any way rather the highway into the dead thread. However I don't see why town!Morality would do this either.

He might get run up but if j don't push the issue townies are going to chicken out because he "might" actually be a jailkeeper. He knows this.

[RCEnigma]

@RCE - After Overkill 2, I NEVER claim something super scummy in my first post anymore.

I'm about to go check if 2053 was before or after Overkill 2. In case you would like to rescind this.

Are you talking about my scumMorality game?

Because that was this year. Overkill 2 was last year because I got the scummie for it.

Yes. I meant 2058 but still yes.

Yeah, OK2 was before.

I totally did claim some weird shit in 2058 exactly like I did here.

But that’s just what I like to do on Morality.

Honestly, I have mainly scum games on Morality, so I can’t really give much proof towards that, but i do hyper reaction test playstyle on Morality, and like to push my Kira mindset. I played my game in 2058 specifically to mimic that mindset, and because I wanted to play scum against RC as the thorn in his side.

Also, didn’t I replace into 2058? Maybe i did before the game started

You replaced in before gamestate and claimed informed miller because you knew one of myself/COA/Creature was cop.

At least 2 of those 3 would have found you as a decent check so it made sense from a scum perspective.

It also makes sense here since you and Skitter are big ticket invest targets. That or you have been planting the seeds for a vig claim at some point. The answer is probably somewhere in the middle.

[RCEnigma]

I’m a Jailkeeper. Take it for what you will.

That’s why I faked the BP, so i could make the comment if I stopped a kill.

Firstly don't read Morality the same way you would read FL, he's being honest there. They aren't technically the same player.

That said it wasn't the Tris/Mizzy association itself, it's that he threw that in as a hard read to push that bef is town.

Just throwing it out like that when most slots are unsure is an intentional plant. It gets people pairing those two whenever they start to form their own reads, all he needs is for someone to echo it for him.

There is an element of manipulation (including emotional) in order to get ahead. So I agree his response and claim is a front and as town he absolutely would not put town at a disadvantage like that.

The only thing he's trying to accomplish with the claim is to avoid a Lynch today.

It's a bit weird, but guess I have to come around getting a grasp on this persona then.

Alright I think I get your thought here, the fact that he wasn't pushing this narrative since his opening anymore was the point that bothered me as I kind of thought he would try to establish that more forceful in the room as it wasn't really picked on by anyone besides maybe Mizzy. But that might be because I was assuming the FL mindset here.

I agree with the last point but at the same time that's what makes me wonder. Neither does such a executed claim might ensure survival nor does it force a counterclaim and it would buy one day at most anyway. It looks so like suboptimal play unless that's what he has been banking on, but by my limited experience that's in any way rather the highway into the dead thread. However I don't see why town!Morality would do this either.

He might get run up but if j don't push the issue townies are going to chicken out because he "might" actually be a jailkeeper. He knows this.

I’ve never claimed jailkeeper

[RCEnigma]

It also makes sense here since you and Skitter are big ticket invest targets. That or you have been planting the seeds for a vig claim at some point. The answer is probably somewhere in the middle.

surprisingly i don't get invested that often really
i have no idea why not tho

I think you spew alignment fairly easily as long as players familiar with you are in the game. I don't think I would unless I needed you confirmed. Likewise with FL.

[RCEnigma]

I think you're talking to me uzi?
If M actually is always ML as town, then it serves to reevaluate the slot. However as skitter pointed out, Morality lies through his teeth on meta and, I want to confirm if the self meta is true

DDL you were in mini 2058 where he pulled the exact thing. He also pulled the "you can never say you can read me after this" thing before and the "I'm much more organized as scum" as scum.

[RCEnigma]

In 2 straight games no less and the second time I called him out for using the same phrases as his scum game, he turned out to be scum. I just couldn't get him lynched.

[RCEnigma]

Well you get conftown on a morality scum flip.

[RCEnigma]

Conftown RCE*

[RCEnigma]

@RCE - Just how different are FL and Morality cos I've not read a Morality game before but I'm pretty sure I've seen FL pull those lines as town.

It's a tough question to answer.

I guess I would say as different as he wants them to be?

Context he is an actor outside of mafia so it wouldn't be a stretch to say performing different characters is a strength he employs here.

[RCEnigma]

how? how are you confirmed after morality red?

There are like 20 different plays we could pull if we rolled scum together and 0 of them involve bussing.

[RCEnigma]

I think I was right on my initial vex read and it makes me feel a lot better about Skitter.

[RCEnigma]

I didn’t want to have to claim my real role, so I wanted to WIFOM scum with a BP claim by having them not know if I stopped a kill, and if they thought i stopped a kill, they’d have to shoot a claimed 1-shot BP. The miller was there because I had to make it seem obviously fake and jokey.

And then I also wouldn’t know if I protected someone from a kill, or blocked, and neither would they have, so was hoping I could catch out something eventually.

Am I this gullible to you?!

You’d be surprised. It’s not a gullible thing, it’s a scum will overthink something so simple, if that makes sense.

Who did you bank on rolling scum for that to work out?

[RCEnigma]

Also why should anyone believe what you're doing isn't rolefishing?

[RCEnigma]

Salad you scum bud?

[RCEnigma]

If bef was scummy in the first place, why did you encourage him to vote morality?

Why did you frame this as a backwards progression when DDL asked bef to vote Morality before he called him scummy and not after.

[RCEnigma]

My quick, sketchy and shitty reads as of now, without reading isos.
Town: RCE, skitter, tris
null: everyone not mentioned
scumlean: none

Why do you think that skitter and tris are town?

How come you have no scumlean? Ever since you caught flak for your vote switching in rvs you stayed away from most stuff happening in the thread and avoided the whole Morality business and focussed instead only on DDL. Literally half of your ISO is about DDL who you are voting for and he isn't even a scumlean?

Partner on partner interaction you say? Very interesting...

[RCEnigma]

Think I'm ok with the townblock of skitter, skellen, sMizzy.

Townleans on Bob and luv
Bef is in my pocket.

Vex/morality contains scum and then there's probably 1 in my town but I'll figure it out later.

[RCEnigma]

Post two is just you saying look at another players prevous game. Even if i didnt know you were refering to Morty i would still think that its hollow. As what were you hoping to acheive. What in that game is of value.

It backs up a morality scumread. It's a game ddl and I were both town against morality scum and there are more than a few parallels to this game.

[RCEnigma]

Bob's town keep it moving.

[RCEnigma]

How is his defense better?

[RCEnigma]

Morality who was the scum on your wagon peak?

[RCEnigma]

You don't think the vote switching was scummy just Tris' defense for the vote switching? But you buy that town!Morality fake claimed bp so that he could block a kill as jailkeeper and then tell town he was shot?

[RCEnigma]

Do you still scumread DDL?

[RCEnigma]

I get the feeling I'm kind of making your reads for you.

[RCEnigma]

Errr maybe that's not right. More like I'm pushing my reads onto you and making you align with me and I'm conflicted about it.

[RCEnigma]

ddl might be scum
i'm not sure i vibe the mortality wagon really

@rce why is bob town?

VOTE: vex

He's not really a lynch for today so we can talk about it tomorrow.

[RCEnigma]

Oh wait you guys have off-site meta together right?

[RCEnigma]

Hmm he may not be as pure as I thought then.

[RCEnigma]

Bob made an rvs post when there was already things to enagage with in-thread.

What makes bob's rvs post different from ben's rvs post which came even later than bob's post?

Ben comes from a different site meta, i'm not sure that tell holds for that site meta

I saw this and confused Bob with Ben. Also assumed you had meta with him on another site when you mentioned his tells are from a different site.

[RCEnigma]

DDL might be scum.

[RCEnigma]

I hard mislynched RCEnigma in a recent game that finished, so i feel he might have a similar lust for my blood here, so I don’t scum read him pushing me. This finished after this game started, so I couldn’t bring it up until now. I feel like RCEnigma has a plan to push me no matter what he rolled if I went wild.

He could be using it as a scum tactic, but it doesn’t make him scum, if that makes sense. There’s nothing in particular that makes him scum, but nothing here I see as definitely town either, especially considering I hard mislynched him Day 1 in a recent game that ended.

I figured you were getting at this but my read here has nothing to do with Fogport.

[RCEnigma]

Also, every Morality meta you brought in is completely countered by the TownMorality games that did the same exact thing and got mislynched for it.

Recountered by the game you did it as scum and avoided being lynched for it.

[RCEnigma]

So you think DDL and I are scum together?

No I said ddl could be scum.

[RCEnigma]

Kind of thought bef was looking for reasons to jump off the morality wagon. Don't think the way he did it is scum indicative though.

[RCEnigma]

I buy that LUV hates d1 but even with that he's doing nothing. His vote on me is based on not believing something I know to be true, and maybe considering me obstructionist and/or useless (which I consider a bit unfair), but it might just have been a general expression of his philosophy on d1. He seems to town read one of my main scum reads, agrees with BEFs post on Morality justifying why he's a secondary lynch and now just seems to be looking for stuff directed at him.

Luv claiming he'd rather just Lynch an unproductive slot and then not voting an unproductive slot rubbed me the wrong way but that's not enough for a scumread.

Low engagement isn't a tell for LUV either and might be +town equity actually.

[RCEnigma]

Morality feels very AtE-ish, if I hadn't seen some FL games with a similar self defence as town I would have been all over that wagon.

It isn't AtE as much as emotional manipulation. The fact he is trying to reduce my case down to a grudge lynch reinforced it. He's attempting to guilt me into backing down.

The original tell I used for reading FL actually developed from playing with his Morality persona but there are now multiple town FL games that he's avoided the tell so I have to go deeper into motivations to lock in on him.

I'll do just that before the end of the day because scum!morality definitely has to deal with me sooner than later as I have high potential to disrupt his game.

He also has to work around why Town!me is taking this line against him and what it means both for himself and his scumteam.

[RCEnigma]

So I told myself I will 100% Lynch morality if he: claims miller, softs traitor/sk, hints at any kind of IC status.

3 for 3.

Wait. Where did he soft Traitor/SK? I must've missed it.

When he told Bef to confine him. Since Light did the same in the show to prove he wasn't writing names in the death note while "Kira" continued to kill. Both traitor and SK fit that theme.

[RCEnigma]

Actually, this players list is funny we should all be PL'd if we didn't know each other. I mean, we all do scummy stuff as part of our playing styles. Some of us even fo it on purpose for various reasons. The trick here is to identify something that is genuinely scummy NOT because of a player's personality and NOT because they did it for a reason.

I'd hate to be the poor sucker navigating that mine field

[RCEnigma]

i really wish rce knew how to read you still, it would make things much easier

ok let's suppose for the sake of this convo that' you're town

who should we be wagoning now instead?

You and me both. Because I kinda want to townread morality but it flashes back to 2058 and the cycle starts over.

[RCEnigma]

i think i just realized something

not sure it's ai but eh

i'm not sure scum!me decides to try to mislynch you unless i was confident i could, and would therefore be pushing you hard
i don't pick fights i don't think i can win as scum really

Using Port Arthur as a baseline and the way you interacted with FL and I think it makes you town here for similar reasons. Reasons I can explain....later. but I don't think you push on FL as scum.

[RCEnigma]

I dont

But didnt you scumread me there for pushing him? Or am i misremembering

I was scumreading the way you pushed me but deferred to my read on FL.

[RCEnigma]

FL shouldn't be in lylo and if you guys don't deal with him before then I would be super disappointed.

[RCEnigma]

Very correct lol.

[RCEnigma]

Id trust FLs shot if he were a vig.

Also I like that analogy for bed.
I think he's probably town regardless of your alignment.

[RCEnigma]

Id trust FLs shot if he were a vig.

Also I like that analogy for bed.
I think he's probably town regardless of your alignment.

Oh, thanks

I just don't trust you this game ...

[RCEnigma]

Stop thinking town thoughts FL it's distracting.

[RCEnigma]

@RCE I believe you said you thought bob was town, but it's worth discussing tomorrow cos they weren't a possible lynch today, has that changed now?

I'll say I believe the attempt to get a bob wagon going is scum indicative.

[RCEnigma]

What's TMI mean in this context? I can't find it in the wiki

I kinda want pretentious to answer this with the caveat that he explains what he was getting at with the statement. It's slightly important.

[RCEnigma]

also not sure I agree with the person who told me I should be ok outside the newbie queue, but maybe that's just lack of confidence speaking

I think you're doing great!

[RCEnigma]

Yeah I can go for a Tris Lynch actually.

[RCEnigma]

i think so. i'll take your (and RCE's) word for it.
VOTE: bob

That was all that it took to change your mind? You trust the word of your scumread (if he still is) that easily?

it's also RCE who i townread.

I hadn't really put much thought into this interaction at the time but following your logic of "my scumread(A50) is advocating for bef but so is my townread (me)." Why is it that Bob was your very next vote when I've been the only person to advocate for Bob being town.

I would think Bob town would be a better sheep read from your perspective if you think I'm town than bef since A50 could very well be wifoming with his read there or there's the potential for a partner/partner interaction there.

[RCEnigma]

Morality/Pretentious's town/scum range (fucking everything?) comes across as "I want to lynch this whatever" and not actually considering the read they have

I believe I’ve been one the same person for the majority of this game, so I have absolutely no clue where this came from.

The fact this came directly after my TMI post is incredibly suspicious, especially considering where Mizzy was regarding to my slot for the majority of this game.

You that read wrong.

This was mizzy's take on how someone else was approaching your slot.

[RCEnigma]

I just got some kind of vibe like A50 was talking and he was saying stuff that was like...he KNEW was true, rather than analysis, and the only way he’d know that is if he were scum.

A50 pinged me, and generally when I get a ping from A50 like that, he’s scum.

I have a pretty good track record of catching scumA50 too.

I didn’t get pinged by him before that post, nor did Vex really ping me.

I'm content with this. It's about where I was at. When I said BEF was town regardless of A50s alignment that was misleading. I was inferring that I thought A50 was spewing BEF's alignment for him the way he was explaining that the slot was town and not IF the slot is town, if that makes sense.

[RCEnigma]

845 was his answer for it. TMI is too much information (scum). In this case it feels like A50 talking in definitives when addressing his BEF read.

[RCEnigma]

I just got some kind of vibe like A50 was talking and he was saying stuff that was like...he KNEW was true, rather than analysis, and the only way he’d know that is if he were scum.

This specifically. I had the same thought that A50 wasn't actually sorting BEF and it was a hard pocket attempt. To be fair I think it worked well in that regard.

[RCEnigma]

Have a link to your last scum game? And know roughly how long ago that was?

[RCEnigma]

What would you say puts you out of your scumrange compared to that game?

[RCEnigma]

Ok so I'm all for killing FL but the reason I townshielded Bob is his undoing because he kind of sort of openly claimed a protective like really really early.

But I will agree with what he said in the post considering Tris was indecisive. Another protective defeats the purpose of non consecutive targeting.

[RCEnigma]

BEF join me on morality

You ask BEF to join you in voting for mory but i cant see anywhere in your iso were you have commented on morality at all. You ask other to join your vote yet you havent posted any reason why you are voting for him

Looks to me like your scum just sheeping the latest push of other players

VOTE: DrD

Can you explain your progression on this? Like DDL was already doing this recruiting for the Morality wagon thing when you were around and suspecting Morality to be a scum Jailkeeper. Even although I am aware of the out due to site performance issues.

If DDL is a scum sheep what does it mean for your read on Morality? As I said last time you were around you were inclined to think he was scum. What has changed our opinion on him?

My opinion on him realy hasnt changed. And that is infact your role

no wonder my post didnt show up. I finished it off in the wrong reply and pressed sumbit with out checking lol.

My opinion on him realy hasnt changed. I dont beleive his roleclaim.



There are two outcomes on any morality flip. One that he is scum and one that he is town.

For both possible outcomes DrD vote looks rather hollow and sheepy. All depends on if he is scum wanting to get lynch through or scum sheeping his partners wagon.


But for now i dont like lynching roleclaims day one. If he surives to day 2 i cant see morality not beign scum. As i cant see town jailkeeper and town doc both being in this game. 2 protectives for 13 player game. doesnt look likely

Last game i played it was town doc and scum jailkeeper in 12 player game.

Like as a VT or invest there is no way you see Morality claim jk and think to yourself "there's no way we have 2 protectives.".

[RCEnigma]

Is this your second game?

[RCEnigma]

Yeah I just looked through. The bigger issue is your insistence that there is a protective outside of Moralitys claim. So it made sense if it were like your second or 3rd game and each had town docs in it then yeah I get it.

But you keep going back to this last mini that had scum jk and town doc when you've been in mini normals with no protectives at all. So I don't get where the assumption comes from.

[RCEnigma]

Makes a little more sense I just didn't think it was worded that way.

[RCEnigma]

Even with the hammer I never thought Hey Skitter might be scum.

[RCEnigma]

I also think DDL is scum, and Ben.

RCEnigma I wanna say is town, but I would make sure to deal with him before lylo. I feel like he should see that I’m town by now, and I feel like he could be ScumEnigma who sees that I’m becoming increasingly more obvtown, and can’t really push it as much. He has to keep it near policy levels.

So if I’m wrong on DDL/Ben, I would throw RCE into it.

I think late day 1 up to now is townier posting. But you can't be in lylo.

DDL was your semi counter before the flash on Tris and those were mostly ddl voters.

Ben can be null idk.

[RCEnigma]

@A50/RCE - Can you explain to Mizzy why it’s unnecessary to claim the modifiers Day 1 like that.

Say I was a Weak Jailkeeper, i don’t want scum to know that I am Weak or else they can kill me off, and possibly get a fake guilty on someone else.

I wouldn't claim how many shots I have as a protective. If you have a negative utility modifier it's worth claiming or crumbing it. If not just let people assume youre 1 shot or full.

[RCEnigma]

I also think DDL is scum, and Ben.

RCEnigma I wanna say is town, but I would make sure to deal with him before lylo. I feel like he should see that I’m town by now, and I feel like he could be ScumEnigma who sees that I’m becoming increasingly more obvtown, and can’t really push it as much. He has to keep it near policy levels.

So if I’m wrong on DDL/Ben, I would throw RCE into it.

I think late day 1 up to now is townier posting. But you can't be in lylo.

DDL was your semi counter before the flash on Tris and those were mostly ddl voters.

Ben can be null idk.

Well thinking about it a bit 1 reason was scum wouldn't have enough votes on their own and had to get Town to swing on something they could take advantage of.

Makes Mizzy + DDL an improbable partnership.

[RCEnigma]

Pret just a quick question when would you say adding addittional modifiers moves into teh region of self limiting. Trying to figure out if your self limiting or beign truthful about only so mnay shots

If you don't believe his claim why would you believe how many shots he's claiming?

[RCEnigma]

Slow it down guys. Because right now people are trying to sell all the major wagons day 1 were on town and I ain't buying any of that.

[RCEnigma]

I like the A50 aggression. Idk the vote count but I know a lot of you bailed on Pret when some nice things were said about him. VOTE: Pret
Fwiw I think Bef has been...not hedging on the pret wagons, but he's on them until the going gets tough. I think it continues from my day 1 observation that he good on Pret with the intention of looking active on the wagon while finding a reason to hop of if things get too real.

That's just if pret flips scum though, gotta flip the game on its head if he turns out town. Hope I'm doing Skitter proud.

[RCEnigma]

Votecount 1.11

Pretentious

- 4 (RCEnigma, benhalkum, Saladman27, DrDoolittle)

DrDolittle

- 4 (bob3141, skitter30, Mizzytastic, Almost50)

benhalkum

- 2 (Pretentious, BrightEyedFish)

bob3141

- 1 (Lil Uzi Vert)

BrightEyedFish

- 2 (Skellen, tris)

Not Voting

- None

With 13 alive it's 7 to lynch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-10-10 22:00:00)

Notes

skitter30

is V/LA 10/08 through 10/09.

FL look at the team you're pushing. Then consider a hypothetical world where you, DDL, and Tris are all town. Then consider the entire team you are pushing is on your wagon (T) while DDL(T) is in hammer range while none of those three scum you propose have hard stances on DDL. They just need 1 reason to jump ship.

Skitter is easy enough to follow and even on a surface level taking her case at face value is decent enough to make that shift.

And then all on its own, the Tris wagon popped up. I feel guilty having a hand in that when I grilled Tris but I hadn't come to a conclusion by the time she was hammered.

My point is you're saying things to say them right now.

[RCEnigma]

He also gave himself an out and reason to completely change his reads for after I flip with the “the whole game is flipped when he flips town”

And if you think BEF is scum, push BEF.

If you're scum then Bef is likely scum. His equity, scum or town, is directly tied to you and/or A50. Moreso you I think.

[RCEnigma]

I'm not even explicitly calling bef scum but there is definitely reason to suspect that is the case on your red flip.

[RCEnigma]

I can't tell if Saladman is scum or just awkward town. I kind of want to lean on the latter, eerrh but I dunno.

I've only seen his town game and it's always been awkward town. I don't think I've played with salad and he hasn't been lynched.

[RCEnigma]

The most reasonable explanation for the flash wagon is the hesitancy from slots suspicious of pret to actually Lynch there but there was still threat. DDL couldn't get off the ground but deadline and the probing on Tris caught traction.

I think DDL is town and there is scum in the common votes between DDL and Tris.

[RCEnigma]

Bad fish, stop it.

[RCEnigma]

He's naming the slots that didn't quicklynch the doctor.

[RCEnigma]

Why start a new wagon on Tris when you already have the DDL wagon and Town!Skitter as the driving force behind it?

[RCEnigma]

Skitter and I expressed a willingness to wagon Tris but that's 2 potential votes versus the 4 on DDL. That seems a lot easier to get EOD comprise votes and guarantee the lynch.

Are you considering Mizzy with ddl at all? Because arguing Mizzy scum starting the Tris wagon should lead to that conclusion.

[RCEnigma]

Yeah I'm not reconsidering my pret vote today. Something is fishy around pret or ddl not picking up day 1. I also don't believe Pret targets me as JK there if he believes in scum. I was the loudest voice pushing against him even after the JK claim. If I'm scum and fear his claim even a little bit I'm 100% not making the kill and Pret would consider that.

His posting is fine when I'm not pressing but when actual pressure hits I think he's flailing because his charisma isn't pulling him out of this hole. There just aren't enough places to point to.

[RCEnigma]

So you think he jailed you in attempt to block scum!you from killing/doingwhatever?

I think he's fishing. That's the only thing that makes sense.

[RCEnigma]

Ben is likely just sheeping RCE’s lead because it adds constant pressure.

RCE’s also generally completely ignoring Ben, and calling him null, yet not even really bothering to change that or even acknowledge its existence.

I'm not sure what to make of Ben before your flip. If Ben was scum I kind of expect more slots moving you from null to scum. I also don't think you're S/S.

[RCEnigma]

I also want to point out the usage of meta by RCEnigma this game when it is convenient for him to push a scum case.

But I just remembered the other 2 times that I have hard pushed RCEnigma.

One I was town in and cosolved a game with Ausuka where I almost wanted to lynch RCE in lylo.

The other time him and I were the exact same role.

Both town games of mine, one of which I had A LOT of pressure on me the entirety of the game and ended up eating a mislynch.

So he’s also picking and choosing to fit his narrative.

One was a result of me pushing you for your tell which was accurate at the time. I think it was more paranoia on your point because I figured out a large part of your town game at the time and it would have been damaging for scum!me to have that info.

Fogport you didn't eat any pressure day 1 or day 2 after I flipped. The mislynch wasn't the result of pushing me and I felt you obvtowned there. Which is why I gave the benefit of the doubt end of day 1, hoping it would happen here.

[RCEnigma]

looking a tris wagon the one that sticks out teh most is mizzy.

He cast teh first vote only 7 minutes after saying he was happy on the drd wagon. While in that entire post he is pushing for tris lynch. Even though he is suggesting that he doesnt want to move.

At teh same time he is pushing back against pret lynch.

Resulting him making the first vote of tris wagon. Not teh 4th or 5th but the first. Clear to me he was very eager to get to choose teh comprimise wagon

I actually think that’s a townie move by Mizzy. He started it, and unless he’s scum with RCE, it got super sheeped. Scum is on the sheep of tris. BRIGHT EYED FISH.

I buy this.

[RCEnigma]

These are all posts that play on the fact that DDL-Myself were likely Town-Town, and after I flip, it gives all the reason in the world to then turn on DDL, and mislynch him tomorrow, because “not all 3 of them are town”

RCEnigma even gave the “i can go for Tris” yesterday, and he was one of the ones on me.

RCEnigma state’s that most of the overlap onto Tris were from the DDL wagon, bringing up the fact that scum was likely on the DDL wagon, yet keeping him off of that list.

He also is linking myself to BEF, which allows him after my flip to completely nullify BEF, which actually is some BEF-RCE partner equity.

RCE has set himself up to come off scott free on both my wagon, and DDL’s next.

- I've already owned up to being a factor in the Tris lynch despite not being around for any of it. Err most of it.

-I don't want to Lynch DDL since I think he's town. I do want to Lynch you since I think you're scum. I do want to explore A50 being a common denominator on DDL and Tris' wagons.

-The connection between you and Bef isn't a stretch.

-you can't claim all the wagons day 1 were on town AND scum was hard pushing you AND sheeping Skitter on DDL AND waiting to snipe an EOD flash wagon.

[RCEnigma]

Why start a new wagon on Tris when you already have the DDL wagon and Town!Skitter as the driving force behind it?

Because then today DDL-Pret face off can happen

If you're town and ddl is town, DDL gets lynched day 1 and scum get to say you were the counterwagon. The extra steps are wasted energy.

[RCEnigma]

You've modded scum!me. You're one of the few people that have multiple looks at my scum or 3p games. Of all the players here you should know this isn't my scum game.

This is how you retaliated in anime Upick and it got you off the hook.

[RCEnigma]

You've modded scum!me. You're one of the few people that have multiple looks at my scum or 3p games. Of all the players here you should know this isn't my scum game.

This is how you retaliated in anime Upick and it got you off the hook.

And of all the people here you should know this isn’t my scum game.

This isn’t how I retaliated at ALL in Anime U-pick.

Anime U-Pick I didn’t have like any pressure on me for the most part. I controlled that game so hard, and role cop guiltied my buddy.

How is that at all similar to here?

I couldn't get support for the lynch because that's just how FL plays. But for the most part I was counterpushed the same way. That I had to be scum misreading you. It even got pops to flavorcop me.

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: A50

Had to take a day off site, I'll get to posting reads tomorrow but like... C'mon.

[RCEnigma]

And then RCE goes to A50 after the Ben wagon starts going

My scumread isn't going to go through today and will likely be in lylo. No I'm not voting the wagon my largest scumread started.

[RCEnigma]

Actually fuck that. I am reading through ben's ISO atm and I am getting cold feet.

UNVOTE: ben

@ben:
What was the specific reason that made you move me from your D1 townreads back to your nullreads?

Get back on ben or you will be the lynch.

Or you could become the lynch.

[RCEnigma]

I'll say if Ben flips town, pret is probably town.

[RCEnigma]

pedit pedit - this feels like that thing that someone mentioned earlier about backing down whenever the going gets tough

Hey hey.

[RCEnigma]

That said, if you do think Salad is bussing ben, why unvote ben when you came under pressure?

Because I wanted to see if I could get new momentum on lynching Salad with the revote there.

Count me out of this. I'm not gonna lynch in you/Salad/Skellen/bob, and I don't want to lynch RCE today either

I don't really want to lynch you either but prets still around so I don't have the pull I thought I did.

[RCEnigma]

It's not even that I think you're town. I've just been giving out enough anti-pretproganda that anyone elses death is a disappointment.

[RCEnigma]

I'll say if Ben flips town, pret is probably town.

If you think this, and you think Pret is scum, doesn't that mean you should be ok voting Ben?

No. It means nothing if pret is pushing it and it doesn't go through. But pret pushing Ben to flip and Ben flipping town gives me towncred. It blows up his scumteam theories and his narrative. I kind of didn't want to say that because if I die it's pretty irrelevant to the read.

[RCEnigma]

Consider me done for the day.

[RCEnigma]

I feel like I’m being baited by him to bring up the idea that Ben and I could be potential TvT, and then target RCE for that, but then he gets a “so whatever Ben flips I’m scum?” Defense, which I feel like he is setting up.

That's the opposite of what I've said. I don't think you prop me up while I'm hard pushing you two days in a row as scum.

[RCEnigma]

I also wasn't townreading Ben, I've been on the fence about him but I think his tunnel is town indicative. You voting him was town indicative and I think his emotion is townie in these last few pages.

[RCEnigma]

I also wasn't townreading Ben, I've been on the fence about him but I think his tunnel is town indicative. You voting him was town indicative and I think his emotion is townie in these last few pages.

Why do you think his tunnel is town indicative? This is what his era does to me, it’s NAI at best, mixed with things like weak associations, and refusal to look past pp6 is scum indicative

I meant you voting him made him more likely town. Take yourself out of the equation like you said. Replace the slot with anyone else. Now it's not a player specific tunnel.

Like, I've given a literal ton of content pushing my scum-pret thoughts and Ben hasn't jumped on any of it. Which tells me he has a genuine....feeling, for you flipping scum whether you're town or not.

That doesn't come from scum who knows the flip beforehand.

[RCEnigma]

I'm on a50 cos I like the narrative of someone moving from ddl to tris being scum and for me there is only one option. Plus I didn't like Vex at all and I don't really like a50 either, even if I find him harder to feel confident of a read on.

I am definitely open to giving RCE a look over if a50 flips town. I don't think I see a good reason for RCE to bus partner!a50 here though. It just bugs me that I feel like I've had a number of mind meldy moments with him and get where his explanations are coming from. I think I am very comfortable in a world where Pret vs RCE is TvS, but I dunno which way round yet. I just feel like TvT pret is able to get RCE to reconsider, and SvS is too risky cos they are both people who feel like they could really push a lynch, and even if they move off it later have it come back to bite them.

Actually maybe it could be SvS, but I don't even know if I can make a case to convince myself of that, let alone anyone else. Gah, that way paranoia lies...

Pret is buss averse and I wouldn't buss Pret as a partner. It's weird that I'd be the scum consideration if A50 flips but meh I'll get to it tomorrow. I don't die tonight and neither does pret so there's that.

[RCEnigma]

A50 flipping town doesn't have anything to do with how to read me.

[RCEnigma]

But agreed it isn't TvT

[RCEnigma]

Dun dun dunnnnn. Actually not whom I thought was going down. Not sure if it favors pret actually being jk or it's scum indicative of skellen.

[RCEnigma]

Honestly being stubborn like this makes you look more worried about how wagons make you look than winning the game and survivalism (especially with your claim that is likely functionally vanilla) is generally a scum trait. And even without that you are promoting a mathematically anti-town strategy where it's harder and harder not to just go with you and hope you are right even if we disagree.

I hard disagree with this. I think it less townie that we had to go for a weak lynch that no one had strong feelings about over a lynch that had hard stances and strong conviction behind. In every aspect.

I haven't reread the day but I'm pretty behind Ben being town, there is strong scum motivation to leave pret alive and get the low info lynch on salad.

So there is scum in those that
A.) Defended Prets lynch, regardless of his alignment
And
2.) Supported salads lynch
Possibly
Charlie.) Something that has to do with Tris lynch but that's independent of the first two boxes. If someone checks the third them great. I'd probably look on the back half of that lynch.

[RCEnigma]

Yo A50, you're better at spec than I am. How viable is triple protectives for a tracker. Bearing in mind strongman is nonconfirmed.

[RCEnigma]

ben - tracker enabler

Is this a claimed thing?

[RCEnigma]

Oh, I'm pretty behind Ben being town too. I don't think scum is this stubborn about something they are obviously getting flack for to force through a lynch on pret who is liable to be on the table every day onwards. But if he had left his vote on pret with how the maths works out it's just so bad for town. And his reason still seems to be "I don't like getting flack for being on mislynches".

I'm not getting why it's bad for town then I guess. I get his frustration having to give up his scumread to lynch a slot he doesn't really think is flipping scum.

It wasn't like Salad HAD to be the lynch, people are saying away from pret and I only partly understand why. It could have been resolved yesterday if town were less wishy-washy.

[RCEnigma]

It is essentially weird though to have a BG AND a Doctor in the same setup, because what if the BG is protecting someone and the Doctor is on the BG?

This is more like a perfect storm kind of thing and can only really happen once.

[RCEnigma]

Yeah which is a major problem today. Because if I'm wrong and Prets town we lose here. Because I don't want to lynch outside of us two today, and if he flips town it's my ass in the hotseat and I'd probably eat the lynch yomorrow.

[RCEnigma]

Dun dun dunnnnn. Actually not whom I thought was going down. Not sure if it's scum indicative of skellen.

Huh?

Consensus town read that probably should have been the target. If me and Pret is TvT scum wouldn't go near either of us.

Bef seems more like a medic dodge (read as JK dodge) than a kill to weed out the Tris voters or hide behind vca.

[RCEnigma]

In retrospect those two things aren't mutually exclusive.

[RCEnigma]

Consensus town read that probably should have been the target. If me and Pret is TvT scum wouldn't go near either of us.

Bef seems more like a medic dodge (read as JK dodge) than a kill to weed out the Tris voters or hide behind vca.

Oh, I see, the "she is still alive, she must be scum" angle. I actually disagree with most that I would have been a good target, I basically dug my own grave with both my EoD2 votes that basically were both in favour of A50 which inevitably tied me to him, independent of his alignment. Which is exactly what is more or less getting pushed now, even although I think that view is only one side of the coin.

If anything I was pretty sure that Mizzy would have been the kill, given scum wouldn't chicken out because of the jk-shot. Then I would have thought that bob would have been the next best option for scum as he is as well widely townread and not really tied to anyone. Why isn't it in his case weird either that he dodged the bullet?

I haven't really been townreading Bob that hard since day 1 when I was the only person to really back him up. No association makes it easy to push a bob with anyone team.

Mizzy fair point but I'd put you as a higher priority kill with your experience edging them out.

[RCEnigma]

Kind of where I am. If pret is town then A50s claim doesn't make sense as scum unless the play is to hardpocket him for lylo. It doesn't seem like top priority. It would have to be pret + A50 + 1, if either are scum I think it points to the other as a partner.

[RCEnigma]

I'll put some effort in whenever I actually wake up. Kind of a busy day though.

[RCEnigma]

I think all of
A50/pret + 1
A50/Luv +1
A50/Luv/Mizzy
DDL/Luv/+1
Pret/skellen/+1

Make some sense on a precursory glance. I'm still stuck on the day 1 wagons. Because DDL being town points to both pret/A50 as scumspects while pret flipping town just replaces pret with ddl.

I can see the loyal visitor claim as a partner saving claim but that makes the setup (rb + bg + doc + tracker + enabler) / however many VTs. Visitor makes sense but there's also no need for it. I don't really want to take it at face value because it makes sense, A50 is fully capable of coming up with a sensible fake claim.

I think if pret were to flip red today it makes tomorrow extremely easy but A50 may be the more likely scum.

[RCEnigma]

Prodge.

[RCEnigma]

The problem is Ben wouldn't come up with tracker enabler on his own. It would be a suggest from a strong player that can make a claim make sense in the setup.

The suspects stay the same, largely.

[RCEnigma]

The problem is Ben wouldn't come up with tracker enabler on his own. It would be a suggest from a strong player that can make a claim make sense in the setup.

The suspects stay the same, largely.

I wasn't assuming that this role was faked though and he would just have claimed what he is, just different alignment.

I am somewhere between both Pret/A50 being scum and both being town, your #2118 is giving me slightly the creeps with the narrative that the D1 wagons have to contain scum. But I guess we will see and it's just my paranoia.

Errr what? You yourself said you think scum had to be on the pret wagon day 1 whether it was bussing or not. We diverge in two places:

1.) If pret is town I think Ben is town and I know I'm town, the other votes are flipped and that leaves ddl.

2.) I just think Prets scum, Skitter died as the most charismatic proponent of Prets death, and town was on the right track.

I'm not just pulling the statement out of thin air. Day 1 Pret was disruptive for town, regardless of alignment and was hands down the best lynch. It was the best info and the best opportunity to regroup the town. But it didn't happen, Tris happened. Which was mostly based on bad vibes some players got.

Ok I guess but over pret day 1? If I have to pick between town not really caring about day 1 or scum intervention to get a lynch away from pret I'm giving town the benefit of the doubt here.

[RCEnigma]

I'll hammer either one of pret/A50. Tie up the wagons boys and gals.

[RCEnigma]

(Mizzytastic, Skellen, RCEnigma although no need to vote straight away I think all plays not voting should declare a level of intent

I'll hammer either one of pret/A50. Tie up the wagons boys and gals.

[RCEnigma]

Luv/Skellen/A50 team

Or DDL/RCE/Ben probably.

The current game state shows that if DDL/RCE/Ben is the scum team, which I pushed for already Day 2...then they win tomorrow likely.

Wanna guess how I know your watch claim is bs?

[RCEnigma]

VOTE: Pret I almost....almost let you slide.

[RCEnigma]

So besides A50 claiming to target Bef twice. Pret continues pushing me/ddl/Ben as a possible 3 man team despite a guilty to directly contradict that.

[RCEnigma]

The non voters NEED to get in here damn it. And the quiet ones who've been put on the spot now by Pret's claims, need to speak too.

This game is starting to stall and the scum are taking crazy advantage of it.

This isn't what's happening, I need you to keep calm it's fine.

[RCEnigma]

We lynch pret. Because there is a reason he made this claim now and it's to wifom the luv slot.

[RCEnigma]

I'm VT so not what I was saying.

[RCEnigma]

Lol not for lack of trying.

[RCEnigma]

I'm always impressed how hard it is to get a lynch to stick on you.

[RCEnigma]

@Bob

Who did you roleblock last night and why?

I roleblocked RCE. Since RCE would be the last person scum would think i would rb. Then if he was scum he would of done the night kill.


Was unlikely to catch scum directly so went to get the closest thing to clear untill we get teh second scum.


Since drd died we can be safe that rce and pret havnt been playign us.

You what?

[RCEnigma]

@Bob

Who did you roleblock last night and why?

I roleblocked RCE. Since RCE would be the last person scum would think i would rb. Then if he was scum he would of done the night kill.


Was unlikely to catch scum directly so went to get the closest thing to clear untill we get teh second scum.


Since drd died we can be safe that rce and pret havnt been playign us.

You what?

Interesting.

What did you doe RCE to come off in this as Bob is lying?

I'm not calling him a liar. I'm just saying of all the slots to rb after pret flipping red I should be the last one, but whatever it's fine, the night play isn't Important.

[RCEnigma]

Oh, even if A50 is scum, there is at least 1 scum in Luv/skellen/Bob/Mizzy. I'd argue roleblocker is likely. BG is too but looking back on the votes is really the only thing keeping me from bringing Mizzy back into the townblock.

Luv/skellen is a 50/50 I think. Also has the possibility of just being the last two.

The stuff pret did with luv yesterday was all wifom bs. It's more likely he did it to distance from A50.

[RCEnigma]

Let’s do Skellen.

Let’s do Skellen.

Why? I mean, I'm not against it. But why?

I keep forgetting that their in the game and I found her last post pretty odd.

Elaborate.

[RCEnigma]

So, I'm also of the mindset A50/Luv are not scum together. Think it was Skellen that made this observation originally which is an interesting wrinkle. She based it on Luv's vote on A50 which had a real chance of going through instead of salads lynch. But also a pret/A50/Luv team would have had to triangle buss all game. It doesn't feel like a pret led team based on dayplay.

*Unless he played into his scum meta from day 1 (which he did) purposely to bus, knowing I would fight that bussing is against his meta. Pret said he would have to play around me as scum which is right and that's kind of a stretch but not out of his wheelhouse I guess.

[RCEnigma]

Oh, come on. Again denied by self-hammer.

You calling this a partner interaction? Why? Why wouldn't pret just let his partner hammer?

[RCEnigma]

But maybe he dealt with him through using both his jk-shots on bob and that's why.

This. Pret didn't target me twice. Honestly I doubt he targeted me at all. When I said he was fishing in regards to claiming me as his JK I meant he was trying to see if I had a confirmable action. It's why I skated around the topic to begin with. I didn't call him out on it so it strongly suggested vt anyways though.

[RCEnigma]

DDL died because it would leave too many townlocked slots. He effectively became an IC, Mizzy is locked with Bob so Bob can't die unless Mizzy dies. So a townblock of ddl/Ben/myself/Bob checkmates the remaining scum assuming no one in that grouping dies. The 3 on the outside get lynched in order.

[RCEnigma]

That was all meant to say it doesn't really point to scum being in the pr claims. I just lost where I was going with it.

[RCEnigma]

We should be going A50/Luv today. 1 is guaranteed scum even if we mislynch the townie of the two today.

[RCEnigma]

On dayplay sure I agree on Mizzy as town. But she falls into the same Poe that you're falling into. Fwiw I also think most of your play has been townie aside from the pret partner pings I had yesterday. Which is why you're higher in my Poe than Mizzy is.

[RCEnigma]

Based on their play or Prets?

[RCEnigma]

You aren’t correct. And your Morality meta is outdated.

This was a thing. So let's see what I can recall of the outdated meta. Which may take some time since I have to skim some other games.

[RCEnigma]

Going through isos for this game. Just jotting things down so I don't forget.

Notes:
- pick out morality/pret/vex interactions (outside of vex's catch up post)
- decipher if vex/A50 is genuine or agenda driven. Addendum: compare A50 initial reads to Vex's reads.
- check them against Prets pushes/how they interact.
- double-check vex/A50 interactions with skellen. Same with A50, curious if A50 had any early hard stances.
- read anything Luv has posted pre day 4.

[RCEnigma]

Oh and I've nearly ruled Mizzy out as scum with some of the interactions they had with pret/morality mainly day1/2 with 1 interaction in particular that I can probably make a standalone post around later.

[RCEnigma]

But I also was referring to scum knowing your claim is true, and wondering how that is the case. Why would they know it to be true if you didn't stop a single kill so far? And why did they shoot BEF if they know your role to be true? If I was scum I would most probably have shot you anyway, taking you or Mizzy down.

I haven't gotten through this whole post but no you wouldnt. If both are town and Mizzy dies there is a strong implication she died using her role as opposed to direct targeting. There is really only one pr claim worth protecting. A Mizzy kill makes Bob untouchable today.

[RCEnigma]

Them both living to lylo confirms NEITHER of them. Assuming both are town and make it to lylo it's MORE likely they lynch in the remaining pr claims over whatever VT claim is left at that point.

[RCEnigma]

Neither are strongly townread. Evidenced by the fact they are also in the pool of scumspects.

[RCEnigma]

You're probably dying either way.

[RCEnigma]

Before I respond I need to look up modifiers for normal games.

[RCEnigma]

So I get where you're also coming from but you're assuming a lot of things like: scum don't have ascetic, scum!Mizzy dying seals the game for scum, FL wouldn't have laid a roadmap in the event of his lynch, bob isn't scum.

So, if scum are worried about rb becoming a soft cop he should be dead regardless of mizzy's alignment right? The exception being that Mizzy has strong ties to the last partner. Also, scum can still trade 1 for 1 tonight/tomorrow and kill off Bob if Mizzy is scum, because he for sure won't block the bg claim. I get all that.

I don't know if FL gives the go ahead for scum to claim BG here and stalemate themselves with a town pr like that. I would assume scum claims to be a lot more open and less provable.

Even if Mizzy is fake claiming here it becomes obvious tomorrow. Bob is the one that should be a worry since his claim makes or breaks the game.

[RCEnigma]

I’m thinking if I should claim.

Doesn't matter if you do. Your credibility is as shot as Pret's was.

luv uou migth as well claim. Were are at l-1 everyone has claimed but you.

You did claim vt but have rowed back from it. So what is your role and why originaly claim vt

I’m a novice vigilante. I shot BEF.

That locks you and skellen into a 1v1 I'm pretty sure?

[RCEnigma]

Yep, cool so this is good, luv or skellen goes down here and we have 1 scum confirmed between them. Scum has to deal with the bob/Mizzy stuff.

Bob can theoretically conftown someone in the Poe if we hit scum today.

[RCEnigma]

We got 4 days I'm not hammering any time soon.

Bob walk me through roleblocking skellen if luv flips scum.

[RCEnigma]

Glad you didn't go with skellen like I thought you would.

Also VOTE: Skellen

[RCEnigma]

It was to prevent partner skellen from becoming the lynch that day. Which I get.

[RCEnigma]

If amrun is scum it's with Bob so.

[RCEnigma]

Gambiting on no kill isn't outside of A50s wheelhouse but as he was the rb target it's a moot point anyway.

[RCEnigma]

UNVOTE: something something hammer.

[RCEnigma]

Wow. Thought I was hammer testing and turns out it's 4 to lynch. Almost called Amrun locktown.

[RCEnigma]

Wait - why would scum know of a vig? Don’t get that.

It's not a stretch to think Pret would figure out there is a vig after the doc and tracker flips.

[RCEnigma]

If I were a pret.....what would I do?

[RCEnigma]

I'm around and will read up soon. Agreed A50 is likely scum. And I briefly entertained Bob + Amrun but it's unlikely because of skellen. I'll explain why when I can fully flesh out a post.

[RCEnigma]

A50 why are you voting skellen instead of Bob here?

[RCEnigma]

It's tough, pret made associations with A50 and skellen both ambiguous. Though I did feel strongly about pret +skellen at one point. The only thing I'm sure on is that Amrun is not with pret in any world.

[RCEnigma]

From your pov he's scum I'm pretty sure.

[RCEnigma]

Didn't get a pm that day started. Ill pull the interaction stuff.

[RCEnigma]

My page 1 post game clout read. Vex is scum.

Also.

[RCEnigma]

so to be clear you are voting Saladman for vote hopping (not sure I see it) and following what other people are doing (fair), and you think tris is scummy for it too, leaving their presumably one remaining partner hidden in a thread that's been open about 4 hours

This actually makes sense coming from a tris partner as well, which likely makes BEF town then.

At this rate, we’re gonna catch Kira by nightfall

It's mostly around this interaction in Particular. Slots that pret pushed as scum day 1 were Tris heavily, myself, ddl, Skitter. All town.

This feels like pret setting up a backdoor if he gets implicated in the Tris push. I do want to revisit Tris' wagon since it's interesting Mizzy sparked it.

What I was going to say is that it was strange to take that stance with Mizzy while he was already playing scum theater with vex. Reconsidering because it involved how pret would play around a more green player when A50 was a partner but A50 wasn't involved yet.

[RCEnigma]

Well, I protected bob and then changed my mind last minute to Ben because of WIFOM.

I was worried bobscum would just kill me then say I must have protected him since A50 self hammered and didn’t give me a chance to say.

Now that I think about it, how is that related?

It wouldn't have mattered who you would have protected, no one could have verified who got targeted by you, anyone could have claimed that they were protected by you as long as you didn't claimed your target before the night.

Bob was conftown on A50s flip.

[RCEnigma]

I'm not considering Ben as scum.

[RCEnigma]

Well, I protected bob and then changed my mind last minute to Ben because of WIFOM.

I was worried bobscum would just kill me then say I must have protected him since A50 self hammered and didn’t give me a chance to say.

Now that I think about it, how is that related?

It wouldn't have mattered who you would have protected, no one could have verified who got targeted by you, anyone could have claimed that they were protected by you as long as you didn't claimed your target before the night.

Bob was conftown on A50s flip.

I actually don’t think he was. It made it more likely to be town, but not impossible he was scum. But yes, due to the role itself of A50, probably town, but not 100%.

Don't know how I would feel about roleblocker, roleblocker, roleblocker enabler for scum.

[RCEnigma]

Umm if I'm around whenever Ben gets active I think I'm ready to end. If amrun and skellen want to crossvote that would be great.

[RCEnigma]

Mwahaha it was me all along VOTE: Skellen just kidding. But it would be pretty tough to convince me we didn't just have it right now matter who we lynched yesterday and A50s stance on the wagons while trying to push that Bob was still town was kind of telling imo. If I'm wrong then mizzy knocked it out of the park and Amrun ran it home.

[RCEnigma]

Yeah I wasn't voting Ben there so gg. I figured there wasn't a point in dragging it out.

[RCEnigma]

Well pret called everyone scum at some point except bef.

[RCEnigma]

My heart didn’t want to think Skellen was scum and I should have listened to it.

I’d happily play with you again, Skellen!

P-edit: thanks. That makes me feel slightly less shitty about myself.

I didn't really want to Lynch either of you but Ben bussing paid off. Maybe it goes different if pret went down day 1 or 2 instead of 4 or 5 or whenever he finally went down.

[RCEnigma]

Oh, Skellen, your analysis was really really on point actually. I was surprised at how much of it you figured out.

We were just setting you up to be the fall guy from before me going down.

This, the day before FL went down I was like damn there are some strong skellen associations there. But I didn't think ehh FL is probably setting that up. The Luv association I did think was fabricated.

It's crazy looking at how strong town was in day 1 and we let it get away from us.