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do i have to respond to 5340? i'm actually like /almost/ getting bored of roasting una-
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i think it was actually from me saying IV's associatives with zombie were hot garbage
@billy please keep posting.-
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that spam is like the hardest I've ever tryharded in the entire history of mafia and is like transparently beyond anything I've even pretended to be capable of as scum lol. again you have no rebuttal for it, this only makes sense if you enter with the assumption I'm scumIn post 5345, UnaBombaH wrote:And I'm also quite certain that Duckys spam and "courting" for liliths favor has been his plan all along.
and you think I'm AtEing? :pIn post 5345, UnaBombaH wrote:This is that game where scum!Ducky fooled you lilith, just hold on to that in all of your future games and I bet you get killed by scum!Ducky N1 a lot more.
on the contrary your dayplay has been quite good considering your wincon. it's just not towny.In post 5345, UnaBombaH wrote:Ducky says I'm scum, because my dayplay has been garbage.
aka. the entire townIn post 5345, UnaBombaH wrote:What has his dayplay been then, in retrospect?
1 scum lynched, and it was based on S_S guiltying the slot.
are you trying to establish that I'm fallible? my god yes
you are not going to establish that I'm scum because I'm not scum here
who was there on the frontlines actually calling to sort these people and trying to engage with these slots before we miselim'd them? this duck
who was there pretending to have a tw/IV solve while literally ignoring wagons forming on his townreads (or in some cases literally lolhammering wagons on people who were outside of his solve)?
I mean I also had trajectory to voting you.....lolIn post 5345, UnaBombaH wrote:Other than that, without even checking, I'd argue that Ducky has been on every single mislynch (and probably I have been too), he has waffled on his reads all the way until LyLo, he voted "recklessly" (for uninformed town, mind you) in LyLo, he has been softing suspicions towards his buddy in IV all throughout the game without actually pushing for their lynch.
I'm almost certain I noticed y'day that if mwnn was green you were necessarily scum
I've just spent like a few actual hours pouring through the thread to show everyone else what I saw that lead me to that decision and to explain what I can see in hindsight
almost the contrary: I've only been motivated by survival as long as I've been absolutely convinced that my elimination will lose town the game. It's been day four and day five that I've felt strongly compelled to survive. if you think I'm scum you seriously cannot tell me that I was setting myself up for deepwolf D1-3. :/ This is EOD as far as I'm concerned.In post 5345, UnaBombaH wrote:Whatever he has said about my dayplay, could be said about his play in this game too.
and like my issue with you is that you have no reads from d3 onwards. you have pushed nothing but singalled that you are trying to solve the game. the issue people have with me is that I have too many damn reads and can't commit to them and I keep resetting and making shitty exhausted reads on players who I should probably actually trying to be solving. yeah I've been on the miselims because I thought they were good ideas at the time. I talked through every one at a fair bit of length (excepting like, Nor who by dayplay wasn't really anyone's first preference if I'm brutally honest he was just a workable compromise who nobody really townread)
our dayplays are nearly polar opposite?
nobody has even mentioned my vt status lmfaoIn post 5345, UnaBombaH wrote:I have a feeling that too much weight is put on the fact that A) he has claimed VT instead of a PR (which doesn't make him town, it just means that he could be the scum!RB) B) he is more charismatic and likeable than I am.
I'm gonna ignore the second part because I think we live in a world where people are intelligent enough to see that I am explicitly not using my charisma for evil in this game.
you are very cute though and if you actually believed this I'd be sad.-
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ye you've been scum for the entire gameIn post 5347, UnaBombaH wrote:Then the fact that Ducky used EVERYTHING he could possibly find in my ISO.
That's fine, let's chalk that one up to bad timing. You weren't around to interact with a guilty on your scumbuddy so we have to read those associatives based on the fact you literally could not interact with him on d1. I'm fine with that.In post 5347, UnaBombaH wrote:For example the end of D2.
He made it look like I ddn't want to vote for Zombie, when in fact there were two VERY CLEAR reasons for why I wasn't on the wagon, and both can be found in that same ISO.
1) I unvoted Nep very begrudgingly because I felt like I got shafted by that mod-mistake. I was forced to out my role D2 because I thought it was going to be a 1for1 trade with scum.
2) I drove to the other half of Finland and I mentioned that as well. I simply wasn't around for much of D2 after that unvote, I'm not even sure if I prod-dodged much because the internet was so bad on the road.
How about the rest of your iso?-
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you aren't acknowledging why this is concerning - the fact that after the mod error is unveiled you UNVOTED NEP and talked to SS a fair bit without either voting Zombie, or voting any of your alleged scumreads.In post 5350, UnaBombaH wrote:
Like, a simple excerpt from those walls of BS you threw at me, what is this even supposed to mean?In post 5290, the worst wrote:
he claims to have realised SS was a cop.In post 3134, UnaBombaH wrote:I mean, I'm not stupid or blind.
We go Zombie-RP today then, and we all know what should happen tomorrowifandwhen.
he was engaging with SS who was imploring him to vote zombie and leave nep for later.
This is me literally telling S_S "I got it, you basically claim to have a guilty"..?
"We kill Zombie-RP today, and if/when Zombie flips green or Nep manages to pull up some other BS for D3, we should lynch S_S -> Nep."
I did not say that I immediatelyknewS_S was a town!Cop, but what other explanations were there?
He didn't budgeat allwhen I screamed and shouted that Nep was lying.
Meaning that he had to have ahard guilty. (or theoretically was a scumster lying, which is why I inserted that if/when)-
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my wallpost quality is gonna drop sorry, I'm mobileposting until I eventually fall asleep.-
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I'm not convinced that choice of words comes from SS who doesn't have a guilty just like. as turn of phrase? but irrespective: if he has further shots why would he double down on the "I'm not entertaining a world where you aren't scum die scum pew pew" thing.....like it's in his best interest to play it as coy as possible while still firmly insisting his elim goes through.-
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isn't.....this like..... directly shading ss?In post 3707, UnaBombaH wrote:That doesn't make S_S scum outright, but I believe scum benefited more from what went down, and sometimes judging the actions by the results is the right way to go.
I'm wondering if I'm overtired or if una is actually flailing so hard he's stopped making sense-
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that's a very wild way of saying "I disagree but I like your thought process",-
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I don't get why you're so fixated on defending this like really specific part of your iso which is very minor when I've just spent literal hours explaining that your entire iso is indicative of a scum agenda. but like the way you're defending it is so semantic and doesn't......feel sincere either?
it's like you're scummy for 130 reasons and you're disagreeing with the weakest reason but because I spelled it wrong or something-
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did you read my epic walls of bleeding heart because you're asking me a lot of things I spoke about in thereIn post 5372, Billy Pilgrim wrote:
Ducky amd IV, is this what you're referring to with respect to his hammer while still scumreading you? Because I at least saw this benefit from flipping MWNN.In post 5018, UnaBombaH wrote:The only other option might be just lynching MWNN - I really dislike their "willingness to be lynched" here.
That would also reveal the "IC" within N_M if that's actually a thing, meaning that I'd have a simple target for my last shot and you'd probably find ME dead tomorrow..but at least you'd have an IC!
...who doesn't...do anything... -_-
IV I'm not sure has talked about this at all? I'll check-
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ah yeah he did I forgotIn post 5116, innocentvillager wrote:
??? “BuDucky-IV” is your only read this game and you decided to compromise here with days left to go??In post 5038, UnaBombaH wrote:I'm a bit sad to hear that this is what MWNN feels..
And if this is AtE, Ducky was once more jumping off the lynch..
VOTE: MWNN - is this the hammer?-
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I like, very passionately cannot remember ever posting that. It took me like 3 days to have an actual lock read which I actually committed to in this game so it was probably a pretty throwaway commentIn post 5379, Billy Pilgrim wrote:@Duck, just read a post that made me think it through again, D1 you had locked Una town if Sirius's slot was town. Why did that change? Was the locking him town just an overstatement?
I haven't gotten through your epic walls yet. I'm at like 5201.-
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I'm gonna assume I don't need to point out the flaw in that one-
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it nothing else 5300 synopsising my walls (which you clearly aren't going to read) has more content in one post than your entire 3 phases of trying to posture a tw/iv team-
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ok so like it's bullshit for exactly four reasons (is it actually four? I don't know but let's count and find out)In post 5395, UnaBombaH wrote:
Well go ahead then.In post 5393, the worst wrote:I'm gonna assume I don't need to point out the flaw in that one
1) d4 is literally the only phase in this entire game where I felt like I was actually under threat of being eliminated. you've been stating that I'm scum consistently but not pushing me and in that phase people were actually having a dialogue about whether or not I was aligned with the mafia. so if you actually wanted me eliminated prior to endgame you have had so so many opportunities to actually try and develop your read and engage with your townreads about eliminating the big bad scum duck but frankly I'd argue d4 was the best one.
2) if you were considering your NK equity for even a second, why the fuck would you then lolhammer your townread, putting you + your scumteam solve of {tw, IV} into f5? like sorry not sorry if I was scum and I didn't have a roleblocker I'd just shoot Lilith n4 and manipulate NM for the win. He's a shitload easier to work around as scum than Lilith is. On what planet do you ever think scum will shoot you after lolhammering your townread the day before Xylo? Increasing NK equity is literally never a reason for lolhammering someone you are convinced will flip town.
3) we dedicated that phase to sorting mwnn in good faith. You continuously acknowledged that mwnn could be town, but never actually joined in the conversation about sorting his alignment. Then with time still on the clock, when you could have been putting your energy into any of the things you promised or pretended to want (sorting mwnn, sorting IV, eliminating me???) you just lolhammer mwnn. you like transparently handled d4 in bad faith and pretending that you lolhammered him so that you could save the day with night actions is bullshit.
4) if this was your grand masterplan and you figured if you were still alive you'd be able to go into f5 against the big bad duck and Lilith & billy would know for sure that one of us was scum: where is your explanation? it's taken you until now when you're pressed by someone who you're desperately trying to swing the vote of for you to actually out this. if it was a real sincere thought and you were taking the risk because you needed to come into xylo as town and take on the duck, where was any of your explanation before this point?
5) all this does is pivot dayplay back into attempted night action wifom. again.
what do you know, there were 5.-
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Look at his holistic reads for day four - he talks about sorting IV and mwnn in good faith. Then he never talks about either slot, but waffles for a while about how he thinks there's a deeper wolf or maybe his solve is wrong or something. Then he says that if mwnn is scum, NM is necessarily scum. But then he talks about mwnn being town. And then he never revisits what the correction in his solve is, if it's wrong. He waffles, yeah - but the actual reads he states on actual players in the game? Always tw/iv.In post 5399, Billy Pilgrim wrote:BTW, I looked back at eod yesterday, and he seemed a bit more waffley than youre suggesting here.
Like I get what you mean, he definitely waffles at eod4, but I frankly absolutely cannot believe that he was hand on heart confident on a tw/IV team since d4, then failed to reevaluate either mwnn or IV (which would have basically won the game if we were looking at town!una vs. scum!duck/iv) and decides to lolhammer mwnn instead. he waffles but it's not towny or solvey or actual thoughty waffling. It's just filling posts.
I reckon from my lengthy read it was d3 when he doubled down on the IV/tw team; I'm a bit fuzzy on timeline when working off the top of my head.In post 5399, Billy Pilgrim wrote:And most of either D2 or D3 he didn't have you in the solve. It seemed like a quick pivot then he heged a bit.
you gotta get to my walls dude you're so close you'll love themIn post 5399, Billy Pilgrim wrote:Honestly, the thing that jumped out at me when I went back through my iso was his like nonexistent progression on me. Twice. I started as town. Then inexplicably I went to one of his top two scumreads. Then later I was town on a "reread" and he expressly couldn't point to a moment where I town-told just that he didn't see an agenda from my posts.
If hes scum here, that's probably what I'm seeing more than any of this back and forth between the two of you.
for real though I'm acutely aware of how shitty his read on you has been yeah-
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In post 5330, the worst wrote:if it's any help, i'd probably lolvote IV and hope for the best, personally
@billy this is about where I'm at with the partner.In post 5334, the worst wrote:ok honestly though:
una's read on billy had this weird trajectory of like kinda null into kinda scummy and he they had some really wild interactions on d1 where billy actually felt kinda perplexed that una was just shoving him into the corner. then una just townread him based on his spew when being run to l-1 and didn't talk about him for like 19823017203 phases. i kinda think billy's really silly push on you on d4 was so at odds with the gamestate / direction that scum were pushing the game that it's more likely to be town derp than scum-with-una.
una talks around IV in a similar way to how he talked around zombie on d1; he largely tries not to commit to a read on him. when he does it's kinda loosely town. they have kinda two dimensional interactions through the game but nothing particularly interesting. IV and zombapoc both like, fairly blatantly buddied me in their own wonderful cute special ways and given una has been running for a duck vs. umbreon endgame for like a long ass time, i think he has a lot to gain from a partner who buddies me who he can establish as scum with me. iv has also been like, generally fairly unconcerned about being positioned as "probably scum but we can deal with HIM LATER" for like the entire game and has just stayed cute.
basically my plan of attack if i get to f3 is to psyche myself up to reread the parts of d1 where una & billy interact, decide if i feel like billy is being genuine, and if so to murder iv
ottomh I'd call his shitty progression on you, and your tendency to call him out for it, less partner indicative than the way he's distanced from iv and the fact IV doesn't seem particularly stressed by being in a solve which is kinda just never pushed. I think IV makes a lot more sense as buddying scum than you do as like..whatever you'd be doing as scum here (I'd guess like, trying to intentionally defiantly push a solve other than Una's so that it looks like you're unaware of the master plan?... which doesn't really feel like either of yours or Una's style).
There's a bit more legwork I'd do before I laid down my vote in f3 but there's my two cents worth-
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I hope I don't need to explain why I've townbinned Lilith but I'm down to give the summary-
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I was just walking down my apartment block's carpark in the rain thinking "oh IV didn't react to any of my push on una except for saying he was down to vote for una and then tried to set up for f3" lolIn post 5421, lilith2013 wrote:
this is kind of garbage reaction sorryIn post 5414, innocentvillager wrote:i haven't read through all of worstys walls but yeah down to elim una, not much more to be said, im more worried about f3 at this point
I was gonna wait for his rxn to me offering to towncase you but I don't really think I need to atp-
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so when I was reading una's iso there were some stray mentions and weird rule of 3 things which made me pause and wonder if Lilith was actually scum and I was just being a big nerd but I kinda think she's just...... not
I'll break it into four brief points because I'm so very tired. joke about whether it will actually be four and counting together.
- sheer effort and solving and shit. as mhmsmith0 famously said, "sort by postcount, become good at werewolf". This isn't a damning clear but like the moment I look at a player who has been everpresent in pushing the good reads and the bad reads and reacting to things and asking the pointed questions and responding to the pointed questions, it's Lilith unquestioningly. She's exhibited the traits that the wiki articles tell you to look for in a town leader. The principal pauses I have in just blanket ruling this as a hard towntell are that like: she's been less on point during the harder gamestates (day three jumps to mind as an example) and I do think a lot of her questions to me came from a place of being utterly perplexed and trying to break through to me before I was ready to town the fuck up, rather than a place of trying to discern my alignment from the tiny breadcrumbs I'd left thru my iso. Still, when I look at the force she applied to D1 and the way she correctly intuited how to play D2 without forcing it and without realising SS was the cop I don't like, feel that it's valid to get caught up on the relatively small % of her iso which *isn't* as towny and which can be explained by frustration and confusion at least as easily as it can be explained by being scum with some indiscernible master plan. D4 was also very important for my read on Lilith but it basically warrants its own point.
- very recently: when rereading, una has some really bad associatives towards Lilith. Like worse than his associatives towards Billy by a decent margin. The "too dumb to travel thing" a am still comfortable writing off as a nai tonal communication breakdown (I haven't heard Una's voice but like the in-my-head-una-voice says that line so jovially). he really sloppily townbins her on D1 for similarly stiff reasons to how he townreads sausage. He has a lot of posts back & forth with her over the game but he's always like directly engaging her - he doesn't talk around their interactions the way he did with zombapoc and has been with IV. When he starts establishing a deepwolf in the core of {tw,Lilith,SS} he basically ignores SS and plays Lilith and I against each other. I can go find the post if needed but at one point he's like "if the duck is town it's making me feel like Lilith's posts aren't as solvey as I thought" and like....ngl I agreed in the heat of the moment because I felt frustrated by the amount of squeeze Lilith was putting on me but it's simultaneously really not partnery, and also a kinda peculiarly negligent read
- fucking day four. I'm still backing that scum would have really struggled in that gamestate: I still think that's the day when una cashed in his towncred and effectively made himself catchable. I have a lot of thoughts about how the scumteam may have conducted themselves in this phase but that's for later. Lilith was the only person who actually heard my suggestion out, gave me the time of day in reevaluating mwnn in good faith, and worked through the read. I don't know what mania led me to believe that mwnn was just high scum equity again but in the heat of that moment I felt like Lilith felt exactly the same thing. Her read trajectory on the mwnn slot in that phase was like, as-if-not-more believable than mine and if after distancing spectacularly her plan of attack was to placate me by pouring absurd amounts of effort into a phoney read on a slot which she's then just turn around and murder along with her scumbuddy (and then correctly distance from him on d5 and have him spectacularly flail while desperately trying to pocket her) I'm probably not gonna vote correctly in f3.
-- secondarily but equally important about d4: when billy and I voted Lilith her immediate reaction was so startled and confused that it hit the point of being emotional. This rings towny for a couple of reasons: firstly, Lilith is a player with a pretty broad set of skills but (from what I can see) also an honour system. I feel like it would be really easy for her to be disappointed by scum AtEing unnecessarily. I think scum!Lilith knows that her *play* is defensible and that she doesn't need to resort to faking emotions to derail the wagon. I think scum!Lilith is probably cluey enough / as is scum!una to take a step back and work out that at the very least, I've been hinting that my vote on her was fake. Her kneejerk reaction to it felt sincere enough that it made me want to drop the rxn test and I don't feel like it was engineered to look any more towny than it did sincere. (vs. e.g. playing along and seeing who went for a shitty CW knowing that she was never actually going to eat a lim there)
- SS' read on her is stuck in my mind like a popcorn kernel gets stuck in your teeth omg. I put a lot of respect into SS' reads and like I tend to reality check myself against him when I'm sitting here screaming into the void. He made a comment pretty late about how he was anxious Lilith was going to make endgame. But I think if he actually scumread her he would have been a lot more likely to like, do something about it? I agree that she's capable of being pretty dangerous as scum. But I do feel like we both separately made the decision to talk around the possibility of her being scum without advancing on actually pushing it or trying to satisfactorily solve her publicly. I feel like I'm not, when push comes to shove, super worried that she's actually scum. gth I feel like SS probably felt similarly.
I think like I could be fallible on any one of underestimating her scumrange, underestimating her ability to play off associatives with Una, overestimating the importance of the honour code/AtE thing, or just not correctly sheeping Mr. Smart. but I don't feel like I'm fallible on all four simultaneously and candidly I think Billy and IV make sense as scum quite a bit before Lilith does independently of the fact I townbinned her earlier in the phase.-
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pls don't acknowledge honour code thing midgame Lilith because it's kinda angleshooty meta and I'm worried it like might brush against trust tell territory
if I'm wrong I'm not like shocked or upset at all, just very very impressed-
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I have thoughts about this but I'll let others talk first.In post 5424, Billy Pilgrim wrote:holistically-
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always. originally I was like "hell yeah we should talk around the partner" then I realised that's for chumps and we should probably reach a loose consensus today-
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could you quote or describe the point in my posts where you realised I'm town and una is scum and the world is savedIn post 5426, innocentvillager wrote:
yes it does? what’s your pointIn post 5422, lilith2013 wrote:actually doesn’t it imply that he knows the game isn’t over with una’s death, if he’s more worried about f3 than, you know, the LYLO that we’re currently in????
if worsty is scum we lose anyway-
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i actually thought 5372 felt kinda uninformed - i'm not sure if scum!billy who realises he needs to lolbus una turns that question back on IV and i given he was still a fair bit back in his solve
conversely if he hasn't realised he needs to lolbus una yet then i'm not really sure why scum!billy makes #5358 or #5382 when he's probably more likely waiting to see how una/tw shakes down-
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it's actually about how i would tier the smokiness of the guns; i think it makes sense from a perspective that was townreading una and then went "oh ah OH OK
OH" and like....at a first glance, i actually think billy read my posts.-
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posts like this feel closer to seeking to understand what's going on, than to pushing an agenda.In post 5170, Billy Pilgrim wrote:
You referring to when Una hammered?In post 5161, innocentvillager wrote:billy can you give your thoughts on the mwnn hammer.
compare for example to iv's opening:
the hammer is like, contextually mind blowingly bad form but IV feels strangely feathersoft about pushing it?In post 5140, innocentvillager wrote:
yeah I think I still hate this hammerIn post 5116, innocentvillager wrote:
??? “BuDucky-IV” is your only read this game and you decided to compromise here with days left to go??In post 5038, UnaBombaH wrote:I'm a bit sad to hear that this is what MWNN feels..
And if this is AtE, Ducky was once more jumping off the lynch..
VOTE: MWNN - is this the hammer?
can people give their opinions on it.
the only thing he fixates on is the hammer, when he tries to talk about something else this useless post falls out:In post 5161, innocentvillager wrote:billy can you give your thoughts on the mwnn hammer.
and when i ask if he's ready to vote una he seems like...floored?In post 5174, innocentvillager wrote:@lilith I know you're busy but you don't have to ~effort for now. If you could just give brief thoughts that would be helpful, if not no worries obviously RL is more importantIn post 5175, the worst wrote:
what the hell is this post?In post 5174, innocentvillager wrote:@lilith I know you're busy but you don't have to ~effort for now. If you could just give brief thoughts that would be helpful, if not no worries obviously RL is more important
how close to voting Una are you, IV?In post 5176, innocentvillager wrote:Um I'm not gonna vote right now...? What's your point
i think billy was slow to the una party but i *do* feel like he's seeking to understand and representing why he had incorrectly townread una. what the hell even is IV's read trajectory on una this phase? "una scumhammered, let's talk about the scumhammer, np tyt lilith, why would i vote una lol?, ah yeah worsty is town and una is scum"-
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that works for me - i also want to reread their interactions on d1 sometime when my batteries are a bit more recharged bc when i was reading una's iso his trajectory on billy felt super slimy but like, i'm a bit busy and worn out today-
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it was already demonstrated there was scum in me/una by the crossvote. did you consider me scum at any point this phase?In post 5451, innocentvillager wrote:I was floored because it felt like you were expecting me to like vote right then and there. What is wrong with me wanting the whole gamestates opinion and letting the day play out more...?-
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it's not. i'm arguing that there was confirmed scum between me and una, and you were pushing una but were flabbergasted that i suggested you should vote there.-
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regardless of how clueless he is, is IV always aware of the una/tw thing?
just a reminder i want this post nailed to my coffinIn post 5007, UnaBombaH wrote:If we flip Ducky, and Ducky is town, then surely IV is town as well..right?
In that scenario, scum will likely kill me during the night and there's actually 2 scum within MWNN/N_M/lilith/Billy.
And in that case, I'd almost want to beg beforehand that town will not let IV be lynched no matter what.
In the scenario where Ducky just flips scum today, and IV doesn't wave the white flag during the night..kill it with fire.-
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where did my words go?
lilith, have you seen them?-
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i would make a joke about shellyc replacing into scum!IV's slot, chaining 40 miselims and clutching the game but that's not a thing
let's just say whatever we need to say and readdress this postgame
@IV i hope you're ok-
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una and i are crossvoting, because it's like that sometimes.
i've scumcased una in a fair bit of length; aorn i think IV/you have really high partner equity. it could also be una/billy. lilith is generally really likely to be town.-
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I'm gonna fight my urges to weigh in for a bit, billy/Titus need to be sorted and I kinda feel like an IC rn.-
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We have like, some time. Nobody's hair is falling out yet. (Except Una's )In post 5075, osuka wrote:The day will end in 6 days, 23 hours, 50 minutes.-
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I feel like I need to get a cup-and-ball so I can distract myself from spiteposting every time Una pops into the thread roleplaying town-
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you are doing a great job of establishing that you have a broad scumrange. which adds credibility to you pulling off what you have as scum.
you're doing nothing to weaken my scumcase or prove that *i* am scum. :p-
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i'm not laughing at you for calling me a mastermind.
your reasoning is that scum must have some supergenius 37,000iq gameplan and have noticed a significant number of obscure crumbs and must be absolutely snowing this game ERGO i must be scum despite that... not applying to me over anyone else in the list, not addressing my actual skillset as scum, and not actually attempting to address anything that has happened in this game.-
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Awww I threw my ball into the air but I couldn't catch it in my cup. Let's try again.-
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oh, that's a good tip thanks.
!!!!!
i got it that time!-
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oh don't worry he's questioning me now *checks watch* two thousand posts later-
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Did you get a chance to have a look at my summary on why Una is scum?-
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In post 5300, the worst wrote:tl;dr: like, yeah. unabombah is scum. obviously he's literally confirmed scum to me via lack of quickhammer but hopefully you can all see like a drawn-out expanded version of why i felt so comfortable lolvoting him at the start of this phase?
just like grabbing a few wild points on why his play is literal nonsense but if anyone is super bored and actually not sure who to vote i'd encourage them to have a super brief flick thru the last page (i think it gets better towards the bottom but i was actually really surprised how poor una's d1 was in hindsight).
- during day one, he had like reasonably likable posts, but very little read progression on a lot of slots. his reads on consensus players did have reasons for them, but the reasons were often ill at odds with the things those players were actually doing to be townread.
- during day one, and actually fairly consistently through the game, he has been suggesting that people may be scum but really struggling to actually vote them. this is indicative of a guilty conscience, and i think that particularly shines through when he talks about small PoEs with entirely-now-flipped players being scum, but still remains non-voting. this is indicated again by his inability to reflexively crossvote me going into day five.
- sometime during early d3 (or like, very late d2?), he settled on a tw/iv team and has struggled & ultimately failed to reevaluate like. literally any reads at a substantial level since then. this isn't someone trying to solve the game.
- his actual push on me is based on like the "3d chess super ninja ultimate laser beam eye scum god" type thing. he originally decided that i was scum because of some like, crumb that he intuited i would have seen or something? which i still don't understand? in the process he has not once stopped to consider that what he's suggesting is coming rom scum!duck is utterly inconsistent with my scum skillset, and actually consistent with the scum skillset of other players in the plist (cough @SS cough).
- he has continuously suggested that i am absolutely scum, yet has failed to actually follow through on his push. he has voted me exactly once, and tried to prompt a real-time engagement. when i joined in the engagement, he failed to engage in any way that would have meaningfully sorted my alignment and instead came out with the same pattern of perpetually scumreading me without actually trying to carry on with it.
- he talked around zombie apocalypse like, pretty damn consistently. he didn't really have a read on the slot. he's alleging having realised that SS got a guilty, but seemed very confused about the fact he needed to switch his vote from nepenthes to zombie on d2. in fact he actually unvoted for a chunk of d2 while the action was happening.
- a lot of his more 'gritty' posting in this game has actually been about mechanics and role interactions, and not about solving the game. the way he talks about and plays his role is focused on making himself appear towny, not on attempting to solve the setup. he misses (imo) fairly obvious prompts that he should be considering what his role means in the greater setup, if he's town.
- his mechanical play makes a tonne of sense coming from a scum rolestopper. trying to establish a pseudo-leashing on nepethes on day one is like. exactly literally massive ev points for a scum rolestopper.
- i'm not commenting back through his play today: he is spamming night action wifom and ignoring dayplay. that isn't town who's just been vindicated that their #1 scumread all along was right. that's scum who didn't realise how hard their miselim was going to fight back.
- SS' case on him contained a lot of evidence that una is a rolestopper. it contained some arguments suggseting that he's town but like, i'd argue reason#3 is just provably not valid (see: page 212) and the fourth is kinda just not really particularly helpful given he wasn't making a specific push because he was active lurking.
this one & the page beforehand. the last like ~30 posts in Una's iso responding to it are also pretty telling imi-
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Every word of it is what I've experienced in this game.In post 5586, Titus wrote:The worst, I like most of it overall without having read the thread. The d2 thing is kinda meh. Same with the specific una is a rolestopper thing. If that wall is true, I don't mind voting Una.
So you'd put the team at Una/Lilith > una/tw? I think I agree Billy is really, really unlikely to be the partner atp.-
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Una's read on him feels slimy in an opportunistic way. not a partnery way.-
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Not very well atm - likely probably tomorrow or maybe Sunday? if you ctrl+f "billy" in Una's iso and read a bit I think it's somewhat illustrative. there's kind of a few awkward non interactions and then una responding to billy biting at Una for clumsy read progression on himself. It doesn't like.. feel like distancing, for the most part? there are some parts which could be distancing I guess but if they are they're just not very convincing attempts at it. I guess I haven't really dived the Billy=>Una associatives either tbh, I probably need to do a joined iso read but I guess I was hoping to procrastinate on that unless I was alive in f3-
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actually this is nowhere near as intense as I remember it being.In post 2139, Billy Pilgrim wrote:Can you explain me as your top scumread particularly in light of the last post I quoted from you? Now maybe im misinterpreting that post when you agreed with S_S that you were liking me more, but between that and you seeming to understand where I was focused on people's interactions with my slot reminding you of your early townplay, im not seeing a progression from there to me as one of your top scumreads.-
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Spoiler: spoiled for large wall
development into the vote after he finished his catchup was good though. I agree with his read and given his back & forth with Una I feel like billy actually wanted an answer / una actually wanted to squirm out of the engagement? it's not a smoking gun but it's more clearing than una/IV associatives and I'm not really interested in considering una/lilith
I need to check if there was another post from una after 2354 before he switched his vote to Pooky I guess but I feel like this had a fairly non stilted "get annoyed, ask questions, get answer, query answer, get clairty, move on" progression which is consistent with Billy's playstyle. he's like, a fairly analytical detail oriented player without being as prolific or experienced as e.g. you. I've pocketed him by throwing down a shitty but detailed scumcase on him before. I think his town style is very fallible to the type of response Una threw back to him.
His switch to Pooky felt believable. I'll go check whether it was opportunistic or whimsical in a broader context at some point.
Una's billy/nor slip thing on D1 is pretty sketch in hindsight and I think it's kind of not a scum mindset to double down on being the day's elimination when ottomh I don't really think he was being bussed? "Let me die on my scum cross so you can see your read style is bullshit" just feels like a whack stance to take to a scum partner calling you scum with a townie who is set to be eliminated but like, I guess Billy is smart and this could be a high level manipulation. this one I feel less confident on.
He's also hook, line, sinker on the rolestopper interaction and there isn't an air of like. doubt. at all. I feel like being scum who knows Nep is either lying or there's a mod error forces a mindset where you're a lot more stilted about the situation - I can actually buy that Billy believes that Una is the good guy in this situation. It doesn't feel lazily clearing, it feels earnest-
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nice work Lilith, I didn't think they'd fall for it-
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sigh I can't even troll. it's just become too obvious una is scum.
GL with f3 if I die. you all know what I'd do.-
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